1 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of 2 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy. My name is Kat. I am the host. 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: And you know, if today was going to be a 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: day that you are here, today is the day to 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: be here because we are running it all the way 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: back to the very beginning, and we are going to 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: talk about something that I talked about in the very 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: first ever episode of You Need Therapy, and we're going 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: to go into a little bit more detail. And if 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: you're like Cat, what is it I just started listening 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: last week, or Cat, I have no idea what your 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: first episode was about that was so long ago. I 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: will tell you, and you actually probably already know because 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: I probably put it in the title. But we are 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: going all into attachment and attachment theory and what it 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: is and are the Tiktoker's right? And is that book 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: attached worth reading? And who we even started this whole thing? 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: And why has nobody ever told me about this before 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: we're doing it today? So if you're new or newer, 20 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: let me before we get into all of this, remind 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: you that I am a therapist. I am, and that 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: is why we talked about these things and why is 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: there this podcast? But this is not therapy. It's not 24 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: a replacement for therapy. It's just a thing that might 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: lead you to therapy. It might help you dig deeper 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: into your own therapy journey, but it's not a replacement. 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: But now that we have that out of the way, 28 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: let's just get into it right. What I'm going to 29 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: do is we're going to do a nice overview and 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: that's today. That's today's episode of Attachment Theory. We're just 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: going to talk about some stuff that's been on my mind, 32 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: and then I'm going to do two separate episodes. One 33 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: episode will be on insecure avoidance or dismissive if you've 34 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: heard that word, and insecure, anxious or preoccupied. We're going 35 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: to two different episodes on those because those are the 36 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: two insecure types that I get asked the most about, 37 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: and I think people really want to learn more about. 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: If you're like, I don't even know what you're talking about, 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: just stay with me and eventually you'll get it. Promised. 40 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: So I've already done a couple of episodes on attachment. 41 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: You can go back and listen to the first one 42 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: and then the other one Attachment two point oh. We 43 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: actually just re released in January and early January. Go 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: listen to that one those It's all good information. Some 45 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: of what you're going to get as information you might 46 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: have already heard from me, and some of it is 47 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: going to be new. I'm doing this because you guys 48 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: love learning about attachment. I love talking about attachment. It's 49 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: actually what all of my work as a therapist is 50 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: based off of. But I also know we have a 51 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: lot of new people here, and in the past, like 52 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: probably a year or so, I have never heard or 53 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: experienced so many people wanting to know about attachment theory 54 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: and so many people talking about attachment theory that don't 55 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: have to talk about it because of their job. People 56 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: are just interested in it for their lives. So we're 57 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: gonna talk about it. And again I'll start by saying 58 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm attachment focused therapist, meaning all my work with clients 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: is rooted in this information. And because of that, I 60 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: also feel very strongly about the integrity of this information 61 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: and how we use it. And learning about attachment is 62 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: not a tool that we then get to use as 63 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: a weapon to psychoanalyze our exces with. It's a psychological 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: theory that has forever changed the way we understand human 65 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: behavior in relationships and how to really help us heal 66 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: from hurt and pain that has been cost to us. 67 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: It's a very big deal to me. So you guys 68 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: are like, Okay, what is it. So we're gonna go 69 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: all the way back to the beginnings of it. Okay, 70 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna go back to the very beginning, and I 71 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about this guy named John 72 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: Bowlby who gets a lot of credit when it comes 73 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: to attachment theory because it was developed by him. He 74 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: was a psychiatrist and a psychoanalyst that lived years ago, 75 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: and he would be known as the father of attachment theory. 76 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: And without him, we would be sad. We would hopefully 77 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: eventually have figured this out, but we might have had to, 78 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: you know, do some extra work that some of us 79 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,839 Speaker 1: didn't want to do. He did it for us. So 80 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: after World War Two, he saw as he was working 81 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: in orphanages where he saw children who were given like 82 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 1: food and like shelter and medical care. But these kids 83 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: like weren't thriving, and there weren't any theories to describe 84 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: what was going on and help somebody understand why somebody 85 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: who's been given all of their needs they've all been met. Essentially, 86 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: why these people aren't thriving and some of them are 87 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: actually suffering like a lot of significant damage and loss, 88 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: and and they're not developing properly. So he developed this theory. 89 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: And I'm skipping a lot of stuff, but for the 90 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: sake of trying to keep this not four hours long. Um, 91 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: he developed this theory that basically says humans are born 92 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: helpless and hardwired to search and attached to caregivers. Now, 93 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: usually this would be seen as the mom primary caregivers, 94 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: mom or dad, but it can be any close human 95 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: who's providing for them. And basically, if the search is 96 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: met with success, then you create security, and if it's 97 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: met with failure, you create insecurity. And the success or 98 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: failure of that search shapes the developing brain and creates 99 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: a set of beliefs of how the world and relationships work. 100 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: So fun fact of why this is so so, so, 101 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: so so so important in our earliest development isn't just 102 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: the only reason. But I find this just so fascinating 103 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: that I love telling people about it. That as an infant, 104 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: our brains are creating twenty thousand neural connections new per second. 105 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Now compare this to that of an adult. We create 106 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: maybe seven hundred per day. So you see why the 107 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: neural connections that you're making as a kid are so 108 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: important because you're making them at like this rapid speed. 109 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: You're doing a lot. So with that, what is wired 110 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: as an infant really sets in, and we can change 111 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: that thanks to something called neuroplastics. The it is more 112 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: difficult as an adult to change this than if you 113 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: would have just learned these things as children. But the 114 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: attachment is not one and done. It's something that continues 115 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: to affect how we view the world our entire life. 116 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: And um Billy used the phrase from the Cradle to 117 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: the grave explaining that the search for attachment and the 118 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: search to attach is something that we start doing before 119 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: we even have memories, and it lasts until we die, 120 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: literally until BRANDI grave. We were born to connect, and 121 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: that is what I want you to hear, very very loud. 122 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to stay it a lot. We were born 123 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: to connect. As long as we are alive, we will 124 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: never stop needing, not wanting needing to connect. We might 125 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: not want to connect, but we need to connect. And 126 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: the human species is a social, relational bonding species. This 127 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: means that the need for connection is something that we 128 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: cannot deny. Our connection to others is what shapes how 129 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: we respond and eventually survive and thrive. Our bonds with 130 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: other people actually have proven through research, Like not just 131 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: people looking at things and be like, oh, this seems 132 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: like a nice theory. Through research, it's improven that this 133 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: is one of the most essential survival strategies that we have. 134 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: So it's not just like, oh, we are a species 135 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: that can have relationships, No, we are a species that 136 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: has to have emotional relationships. So attachment is directly related 137 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: to our emotional regulation, and there's a high, high, high 138 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: emphasis on fear and how we respond and regulate fear specifically, 139 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: when we have predictable and stable emotional connection with somebody, 140 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: we're more likely to be able to regulate and be 141 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: okay and sit through times of high intensity or distress 142 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: or anything like that. And when we're able to regulate 143 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: during those times, which when I say distress, we're going 144 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: to pull in that emotion fear. So I said attachment 145 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: deals a lot with fear specifically. Okay, so what's just 146 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: think about when you might be distressed in your life. 147 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: Let's say you're inn start a new job and you 148 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 1: don't know anybody. It's a new environment, all these new things. 149 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: So that's gold be a distressful environment if you don't 150 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: know where you're going or or what it's going to 151 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: be like. So we are probably a little bit scared 152 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: in that time, right, So if we're able to regulate that, 153 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: we're more able to move through that and be comforted 154 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: through that and know that it's going to be okay, 155 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: because what I know from the world is that it's 156 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: safe and it's manageable, and I can expect that people 157 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: are going to be good and my needs are going 158 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: to be met, and I'm going to be okay. Right. 159 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: If I have what we're going to talk about as 160 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: a secure attachment, I'm going to be able to regulate 161 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: my fear and move through that. If I have an 162 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: insecure attachment, I might not be able to regulate my 163 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: fear and it might keep me from even going to 164 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: work that day, or it might keep it might have 165 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: me like actually having like physical ailments, like my stomach 166 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: might really start to hurt. It might affect me going 167 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: to the bathroom, might not might not be able to sleep, 168 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: and that affects how you might even perform at work 169 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: the next day if you do make it. So there's 170 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: these two really important parts of creating attachment, and they 171 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: are called a safe haven and a secure base. A 172 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: safe haven is somewhere where you can go and feel 173 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: like you're going to be okay. Right, It's somewhere you 174 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: can go back to and feel like, okay, this place 175 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: literally is safe. And with the safe haven, there's usually 176 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: something in that called a secure base, which is usually no, 177 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: not usually it is a human being. A secure base 178 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: is literally what it sounds like. It's a place and 179 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: a person for you to be connected to so you 180 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: can move from and explore and then come back. You 181 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: get a sense of safety and stability in the world 182 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: from this figure. And like I said earlier, oftentimes in 183 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: early development it's the primary caregiver. Now, contrary to some 184 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: mixed beliefs, the dependence on security figures actually increases ability 185 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: to build autonomy later in life, which we're going to 186 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: talk about as we move forward. But I just want 187 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: to give this example to like, imagine you're a young 188 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: kid and you go to the playground with a parent. 189 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: A secure basis somebody that might be sitting on the 190 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: bench watching you. But as a kid, you like, when 191 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: you get there to the park, you might be really 192 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: nervous because you don't know a lot of other kids, 193 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: and so you're clinging to your mom. And then you 194 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: know that your mom isn't going to leave you, and um, 195 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: you can count on her to provide for you from 196 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: the experiences that you've had so far with that figure. 197 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: So eventually you can start to like inch away and 198 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: you might just like, you know, walk over to the 199 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: sandbox because you can still see mom, and like make 200 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: it a little farther away, and then you can walk 201 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: over to the slide and you can still see mom, 202 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: and Mom hasn't left, And eventually you might start talking 203 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: to the other kids. And then if some kid says 204 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: something or maybe you like fall down, you can you 205 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: run back to your mom and you or dad and 206 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: you know that they're going to be there to help 207 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: you when you experienced a sense of distress. But a 208 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: lot of times people are like, oh, you don't want 209 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: to have the like en measurement in your relationship with 210 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: your parents, but you do want to have a sense 211 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: of dependence, especially in those ages where you actually have 212 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: to depend on mom and that dependence in the creation 213 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: of the security, and that dependence ends up helping you 214 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: actually move away and go try out things and explore 215 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: and then mess up, and then you're able to come back, 216 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: and then you can go out and mess up again. 217 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: And you're going to hear this continuously. There's a lot 218 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: of emphasis put on your primary caregiver here, which your parents, 219 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: which is appropriate. These are usually the people that you 220 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: spend the most amount of time with and they're responsible 221 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: for meeting your needs as a small child and infant baby. 222 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: They are your first experience of a relationship and they 223 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: give you a mirror in a sense of how to 224 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: identify and relate to the world. But I also want 225 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: to emphasize here that your biological parents are not the 226 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: only end all be all here. If that was the case, 227 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: then a lot of us would just be screwed. Because 228 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: this is the experience you had growing up. Doesn't mean 229 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: you're doomed. And if you didn't have a secure base 230 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: with the primary caregiver, you could have had somebody else 231 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: that was a secure base, or you might have found 232 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: a secure base later in life, or maybe you haven't 233 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: found it yet. You can still find that. And I 234 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: will say just because you did have a secure base, 235 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean your life will be perfect and you'll 236 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: never have anxiety. And I gotta say this because I 237 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: feel like I can't do an episode these days without 238 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: saying something like this. But I think that a lot 239 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: of what you're seeing on social media, especially about attachment, 240 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: might be oversimplified, Like on Instagram and specifically TikTok, they 241 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: oversimplify what it looks like to have certain attachment styles 242 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: and where they come from. And it gets under my 243 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: skin because it spreads misinformation and it also causes people 244 00:12:54,640 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: unnecessary anxiety. This is not an always. If this happened you, 245 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: then you will do this always. And if this didn't 246 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: happen to you, then you will do this always. There's 247 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: always an exception, is what we know. There always is. 248 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: But I think when we simplify just the characteristics of 249 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: this or the characteristics of that means you have this 250 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: attachment that attachment, we're not looking at the full picture. 251 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: So as you listen to this, and as you continue 252 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: to listen and learn about attachment, I want you to 253 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: look at the full picture and not just take this 254 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: one part of it and be like, Okay, this is me, 255 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: this is now my life, and I'm maybe doomed or 256 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm perfect. So let's say you did have a less 257 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: than supportive upbringing. The good news is that something that's 258 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: constantly involving is your attachment. It's not fixed. You may 259 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: create a tendency to lean to one side or the 260 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: other when we're talking about the insecure spectrum, but your 261 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: relationship later in life can affect your attachment as well. 262 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: And we're going to keep talking about this as we go. 263 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: The attachment system, I think that we've kind of already 264 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: established this is a fundamental part of a human being, 265 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: just like any other system like your a reproductive system 266 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: or some digestive system or something like that. What this 267 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: does is it helps us create things called mental models. 268 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: And these are like patterns of how of interaction, of 269 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: how we kind of like code the world, and these 270 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: guide our responses and how we like walk through a 271 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: move through life. Now, remember these are not fixed. Mental 272 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: models can change and when we have new interactions, we 273 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: can create more or new models. They're they're what something 274 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: would call working models. Now, the working models associated with 275 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: attachment ask questions like can I count on you? And 276 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: am I worthy of your love specifically looking at when 277 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: I say you can I count on the people in 278 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: my life. And attachment is all about emotional safety, right 279 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: and security. And because we are relational, emotional connecting species, 280 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: this is just as important for s rival as something 281 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: like our reproductive system. This is explaining why in the 282 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: orphanages Bobby was seeing these kids, but these babies who 283 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: weren't thriving but they were getting all their needs met 284 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: is because we were missing one of the needs. And 285 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: it's just as important as something like your digestive system. 286 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: If you're missing your digestive system, you would see that 287 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: the kids might have some issues. Right, So you might 288 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: be like, what are you talking about, Like how does 289 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: emotion have that much of an impact on our survival? 290 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: Like don't we just need to like you know, eat 291 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: and sleep, drink water. Well, let me explain this to you. 292 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: Attachment influences our mental health in such a deep way, 293 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: Like such a deep way. If we create an insecure attachment, 294 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: we're still going to try and get our needs met 295 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: because this is an innate thing that we're born with. 296 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna try to figure out a way to get 297 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: these emotional needs met, whether it's through shutting them down 298 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: or exploiting them, or any extreme measures. We will take 299 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: extreme measures if we have to. And I'm going to 300 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: go back to this story that I've told countless times 301 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: at this point in my life, and told it on 302 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: the podcast before many times. And it's the story that 303 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: this man named Gobor Mote told in a lecture that 304 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: I listened to him give years ago. He was working 305 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: in harm reduction clinics, which are clinics that help people 306 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: who have tried to get sober and doesn't work for them, 307 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: So it's an alternate route to healing addiction. What harm 308 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: reduction is for another day, anyway. So he was asking 309 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: these people like why are you doing heroin? Like I 310 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: don't get it. You know, this drug is deadly. It's 311 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: not like a fun party drug, Like, why why are 312 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: you doing this? You talked to this one guy that 313 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: you describe as somebody who looked like like a bouncer, 314 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: this bigger guy, like a tough guy, and he said, 315 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: I don't have any other way to describe it to 316 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: you except have you ever been sick and your mom 317 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: wraps up in a blanket, puts you on her lap, 318 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: and feeds you chicken? Noodle soup. That's what heroin feels like, 319 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: and so goodbor Mote was, Okay, well, I know what 320 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: you're describing. You're describing the feeling of love. You're describing 321 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: the feeling of love and connection. And so these people 322 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: are willing to take life threatening drugs in order to 323 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: feel a sense of love. They might not know that's 324 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: what they're doing, but we are so resilient as beings 325 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: that we will do that. So moving right along, we're 326 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: going to go back a little bit based on our 327 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: our primary caregivers or whoever is taking care of us 328 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: in our early ages, based on their responses to meeting 329 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: our needs, we end up answering those two questions can 330 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: I count on you? And am I worthy of your love? 331 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: Based on the answer to those questions, you will develop 332 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: one of four main attachment styles. You have secure, which 333 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: is what we want. And from the most recent research 334 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: that I have, that's fifty people. So most people are 335 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: getting that. And I also will say this isn't based 336 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: on your caregivers giving you your getting your needs met 337 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: every single time. It's like if seventy of the time 338 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: they're not perfect, but a large majority of the time 339 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: they're mating your needs, you'll have a secure attachment. Then 340 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: we have these two main insecure types, insecure anxious and 341 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: insecure avoidance. And then we have a third and secure 342 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: type that is called disorganized. Now you'll see more that 343 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: being called fearful avoidance. We're not going to talk about 344 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: that one too much. You know what I say, we 345 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: do a whole episode on it. We'll do it on 346 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: all three. We're gonna do an episode on each of 347 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: these insecure types. But because secure is not getting its 348 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: own episode, let's talk about that for a second. What 349 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: you want is a secure attachment. And if you didn't 350 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: get it when you're growing up, good news is you 351 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: can still create that. We can still find that you 352 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: can create something called an urn secure attachment. Now, in 353 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: a secure attachment, the child infant will experience a sense 354 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: of security with its caregiver. The caregiver shows up and 355 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: they create this idea that people are generally good. Um. 356 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: They believe that their partners will be loving and will 357 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: be there for them. They're able to communicate their needs, 358 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: and there's an expectation that I am valuable and I 359 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,239 Speaker 1: can count on people to meet those and when they 360 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: do get rejected, it's not they're not overly sensitive to it, right, 361 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: because they know that they are good and they can't 362 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: count on people, and that people love them and they 363 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: can be loved. So rejection is just like part of 364 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: life and it's not anything more than it needs to be. 365 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: They are just programmed to expect like good out of 366 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: people and that people will be there and be able 367 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: to love them, and they're pretty comfortable with intimacy. So 368 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: if a child is not getting their needs met, what 369 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: they're going to do are these things called attachment behaviors 370 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: and their signals of distress that usually end up in 371 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: them getting their needs met. Right, So they're gonna cry 372 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: or cling or seek, and if that goes well, If 373 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: they have this lack of a need being met and 374 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: then they do this attachment behavior and that goes well 375 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: and they get what they need, you can move from 376 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: this place of somewhat insecurity of what's going on to security. 377 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: So that's all of this to say with secure attachment. 378 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: The reason I'm saying this part is it doesn't mean 379 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: they don't ever have anxiety or they're not ever distressed. 380 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: It's that like when they are, then they usually get 381 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: this experience that it's going to be okay. If that 382 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: doesn't go well, over and over and over. Let's say 383 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: even created a secure attachment and then all of a 384 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: sudden things aren't gonna getting met anymore and you're not 385 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: popping back up to security, then what's going to happen 386 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: is you're going to form a form of an insecure attachment. 387 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: So you have the anxious and avoidance and then just 388 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: the disorganized, fearful. The thing about them is they all 389 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: have the same inside feelings, but they have all very 390 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: different ways of expressing or taking care of those inside feelings. 391 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: All of those people are afraid of abandonment, interjection, and 392 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: their behavior is to avoid feeling that. Now, other than 393 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: this is just wildly fascinating information, and I think it's 394 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: very helpful. Why are we going to do a whole 395 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: episode on each of those insecure attachments. It's because when 396 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: you have an insecure attachment, it is increasing your vulnerability 397 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: to having two of the problems that are most common 398 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: only discussed in therapy, the most common problems that people 399 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: come to therapy with and you've heard of them, anxiety 400 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: and depression. When you've an insecure attachment, you're more likely 401 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: to experience those things. What secure people have is an 402 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: ability to stay engaged and stay like attuned to themselves 403 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: with distressing emotions going on, without the fear that they're 404 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: going to lose control or just lose something big loser relationship, 405 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: be overwhelmed. They can regulate their emotions. Somebody with an 406 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: insecure attachment has issues regulating their emotions. There comes anxiety, 407 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: there comes depression. Sundy with a secure attachment doesn't need 408 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: to block or deny emotions. They can feel them and 409 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: they cannot like them, but they also know that they're 410 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: going to be okay. So I started reading a new 411 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: to me book, not like a new book to just 412 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: come out, but it's new to me because I haven't 413 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: read before, called Attachment Theory and Practice, and it's written 414 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: by Sue M. Johnson. It's a fantastic book. However, I 415 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: would not recommend anybody reading this who isn't a clue 416 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: s And it's reads somewhat like a textbook, And there's 417 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: other literature out there that I think would be more 418 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: like helpful and interesting for you guys to read on 419 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: attachment then this, But you can also read it if 420 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: you want to. But in the beginning of the book, 421 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: she talks about some common misconceptions and adult attachment that 422 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: are swirling around, and I want to address them here 423 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: as well. So we're going to get into those. And 424 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: when I say adult attachment, so when I started talking 425 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: in the beginning of this episode, we're talking about John 426 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: Bobby's research and what he found out, what he created, 427 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: and what he discovered, and that's what this early childhood attachment. 428 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: When I started as a therapist and I started learning 429 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: about this, that's where we kept that. It was like, 430 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: while we knew that this thing can change and it's 431 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: not fixed any of these working models, we kind of 432 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: like discovered this thing and then it sat there and 433 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: everything was focused like mainly on those earliest interactions. And 434 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: now that we are doing more research and attachment is 435 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: becoming such an important integral part of psycho apology and 436 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: therapy and all of that, Like we can't survive without 437 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: this stuff. We have more information and there's a lot 438 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: more push, I guess is the right word, but emphasis 439 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: on adult attachment, So our attachment later in life and 440 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: how that moves and and how that shifts and changes. 441 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: So we're gonna kind of move more towards this space 442 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: of adult attachment now, right, So one of the myths 443 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: that she talked about is, and we mentioned this earlier, 444 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: that dependency on others is harmful and what it actually 445 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: is is helpful. In the past, reliance on other people 446 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: as they move into adulthood, right as they moved past 447 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: these stages of life where they have to depend on caregivers, 448 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: was seen as like bad clinicians would use the word maladaptive, 449 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: and you would call all of these people and meshed 450 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: are codependent. And while those are very real things, also, 451 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: I think now we're seeing that interdependence, like dependence on 452 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: other people and relationships is now a very good thing 453 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: and a very healthy thing, and a very helpful thing. 454 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: What we know now is that the idea of secure 455 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: basis right even in adulthood, and ability to rely on 456 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: people and on our connections to other human enhances our 457 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: self efficacy. So when we feel secure, we're way more 458 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: likely to grow. When we feel secure, we're way more 459 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: likely to take risks and explore, kind of like that 460 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: example of the kid on the playground, we're taking that 461 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: into adulthood. Now. Any of you guys listened to that 462 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: excited about fear and like the fear of failing, failing 463 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: and all of that. People who are more secure and 464 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: have more secure attachments and are more connected to people 465 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: are more likely to be able to take those risks 466 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: and not see things not working now as failure and 467 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: like life ruining moments. Now, the other myth that is 468 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: talked about are one of the their myths is that 469 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: our attachment doesn't change. And that's kind of what I 470 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: was talking about before I got into this. I got 471 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: ahead of myself what's new, And it used to be 472 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: more accepted that your attachment style is based solely on 473 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: your earliest experiences, and then it just kind of stuck there. 474 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: And now we can see that attachment is fluid and 475 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: it's more of a working model, and that changes as 476 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: the things we see in the world change. New experiences 477 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: align with the neuroplasticity, like the ability for our brain 478 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: to like change, and we can create new ways in 479 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: which we view ourselves and relationships. This is what a 480 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: lot of attachment focused therapists do. They present a new 481 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: example and a new experience of relationships for their clients. 482 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: I will say, the only way that somebody's attachment can't 483 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: be changed because sometimes it can't be changed. When that happens, 484 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 1: that's because of the rigidity of the individual. So they 485 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: might not allow new experiences in their life. They might 486 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: constantly engage in self fulfilling prophecies and they kind of 487 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: like prove this thing to be real for themselves. And 488 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: if you latch onto the ideas that you learned previously 489 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: and you don't allow space for something different to exist, 490 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: then you can get stuck and you can create like 491 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: narratives that like build off of each other. Right, So 492 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: here's an example, like somebody might say to a therapist 493 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: or think about their therapists like people only care about 494 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: me if I pay them to And so you play 495 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: into your avoidant tendencies here, and then you continue to 496 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: cancel appointments and then your therapist ends up firing you 497 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: and you say, see, I told you so all you 498 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: care about is getting her money, when really that might 499 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: not be. Why the therapist fired you was because there 500 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: was no consistency. You weren't sharing it for appointments and 501 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: it was not working out. Um, I didn't have to 502 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: do at all with the idea that people can only 503 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: love will only love you if you pay them, Okay, 504 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: And then here is another myth. The last myth we're 505 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: talking about is that romantic relationships don't have anything to 506 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: do with attachment. Used to be like, this is your 507 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: attachment and then you play it out in your relationships. 508 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: But your romantic relationships have just as much as an 509 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: impact on your attachment as any other relationship. They're very 510 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: similar to your early childhood relationships. Secure bases are similar here, right. 511 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: The more security you feel in a relationship romantic wise, 512 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: the more you will be able to explore in that relationship. 513 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: And that even moves into like sexuality and how your 514 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: sexual relationship shows up. So when you have a secure partner, 515 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: what we see is that people self report a more 516 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: relaxing and satisfactory like sex life because you're more able 517 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: to like, feel okay, and then do what you want 518 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: to do. An avoidant attachment is seen with negative sexual experiences, 519 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: and what we'll see here as partners are more concerned 520 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: with performance but report lower levels of satisfaction. So I 521 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: want appear okay and appear good, but I might not 522 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: be getting what I want. And here's the thing, guys, 523 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: sex as a bonding experience. When somebody sex and they 524 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: have orgasm, they release a bonding hormone called oxytocin, and 525 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: it's actually during sexual experiences that the physical attunment and 526 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: marrying kind of behaviors that you see in like a 527 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: mother infant relationship are most apparent in adults. Which we're 528 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: not gonna get too much into this, but when you 529 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: think about sexual trauma. One reason why this is can 530 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: have such an effect on our attachment and ability to 531 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: create meaningful and safe relationships. It's because of this right here, 532 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: This experience that is meant to bond you with a 533 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: safe person and join together pleasure, satisfaction, attunement, safety, and 534 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: affection gets categorized differently when it's with an unsafe person 535 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: that isn't attuned us. This experience that is supposed to 536 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: bring us pleasure or does bring us pleasure, also is 537 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: joined with his intense fear, lack of safety, and disregard 538 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: for attunement. That's going to mess up how you see relationships, 539 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: how you're going to see the world, how you're going 540 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: to see yourself. Then those the bonding hormones that are 541 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: being naturally released sometimes can create a bonding experience. Is 542 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: was someone that elicits those feelings and that can become 543 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: your baseline for relationships. So if you have sexual trauma, 544 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: especially early on, that's your baseline for relationships. And that's 545 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: going to affect what safety means to you, and what 546 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 1: normal means to you, and what attractive bonding means to you. 547 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: So we're going to kind of wrap up here because 548 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: I could keep talking for hours on end about attachment, 549 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: and we will because we're going to do the rest 550 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: of these episodes. But what I want you guys to 551 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: leave with is this idea of what attachment really is 552 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: talking about, and it's talking about this undeniable need for 553 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: us to connect with people and what happens and how 554 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: we actually function and how we are affected and how 555 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: our behaviors are changed by us not getting that attachment 556 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: is all about connection and emotional regulation and the manner 557 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: and what you engage with your emotions will shape your suffering, 558 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: so calls you more suffering, it will help you manage 559 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: your suffering. And more on that as we get into 560 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: the insecure types. But what I want people to know 561 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: is that helping if you have an insecure attachment, the 562 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: way to heal that is not just giving you coping skills. 563 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: It's not just giving you information, so you're not going 564 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: to heal your attachment by reading about it. You might 565 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: identify it, but that's not how you going to heal it. 566 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: We can't just teach people how to contain emotions. What 567 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: we have to do is teach people from what is 568 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: a bottom up approach. We have to create felt senses 569 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: of security through distressing times, and therapy has to be 570 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: a safe haven for clients for it to be successful, 571 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: and a therapist has to become a secure base for 572 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: that client. That's what we do, and that's what a 573 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: lot of my job literally is. It's not the like 574 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: information that I teach clients. It's not the experiential exercises 575 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: that we do, it's not the art projects, it's not 576 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: any of that. What it is is I'm creating an 577 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: environment and a relationship where somebody feels safe and heard 578 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: and loved and cared about and or they know they 579 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: can come back even when they mess up. And when 580 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: you first learn how to be a therapist, and if 581 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: you are a therapist or you're somebody in school, you'll 582 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: relate to this as you're taught this humanistic approach that 583 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: was developed by Carl Carl Rogers. They are essential parts 584 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: of being a good therapist. These essential things you need, 585 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: and one of them is this need to be fully present, 586 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: engaged in the process with your clients. This is kind 587 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: of modeling, I guess, a surrogacy type of way of 588 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: what a parent would have provided but maybe didn't. Okay. 589 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: And so if you are somebody who is identifying with 590 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: these insecure types of attachment, two things I want you 591 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: to hear right now. One, it does not mean your 592 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: parents ruined you and your parents are bad. None of 593 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: this is about blame. None of learning about this is 594 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: about blame, because what we also know is blaming some 595 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: buddy for a problem doesn't fix anything. So that's one thing. 596 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: This isn't about demonizing anybody. It's about learning about yourself. 597 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: It's about learning about your experiences. It's about making sense 598 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: of your experiences. The other thing is this can change. 599 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: You have to remember it's fluid. But for something to 600 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: actually be fluid, for it to change, you have to 601 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: believe it can change. You have to give yourself the 602 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: opportunity for that to happen, and oftentimes a way to 603 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: do that is through therapy. Because a therapist does end 604 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: up being a surrogate attachment figure. Now, if you can't 605 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: afford therapy, you don't have access to it, you're not 606 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: doomed there either. But this is part of therapy that 607 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: I never used to explain and now I love talking 608 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: about because what happens in the room feels like magic, 609 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: but it's not. It's connection. It's connection. It's emotional, safe connection. 610 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: That's what we're all wanting and not all acknowledging. And 611 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: that's one of the very basic reasons I created this 612 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: podcast to acknowledge that we all just want connect. So again, 613 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: if you can't afford therapy and you're like, well you 614 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: just said learning about it's not going to help me, 615 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: that's okay. You can still find safe people, but you 616 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: have to eventually let yourself attached and connect to those 617 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: people fully safe people. We've got to look at the 618 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: people that you're trying to connect with, because if you're 619 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: trying to connect with another insecure person, if you're an 620 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: anxious person, you're trying to attach to an avoidant person, 621 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: you're just creating more of those self fulfilling prophecies, which 622 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: again we'll get into. I just want to keep talking about, 623 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: but I can't stop. But yeah, I want to leave 624 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: you with that that, like, this is the reason I 625 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: started this podcast, so we could acknowledge louder and together 626 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: that we really just all want to connect. And connection 627 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: is like the healing agent upon healing agents. Yeah, it's 628 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: that simple, and it's also that complicated. So with that, 629 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to leave you with some things to think about, 630 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: right and in the next couple of months will be 631 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: putting out those other episodes and we're going to dive 632 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: deeper into this. For now, though, I hope you guys 633 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: are having the day you need to have and I 634 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: will talk to you guys on Wednesday for couch Talks 635 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: m M.