Speaker 1: Caroline. She's queen and talking song. She's getting not afraid
Speaker 1: of thing, So just let flow. No one can with
Speaker 1: cry Caralin. This sounds Carol. So I this is a
Speaker 1: really special day for me because I have had this
Speaker 1: amazing opportunity in my life to meet a lot of people,
Speaker 1: to learn from a lot of people. I am in
Speaker 1: a very um healthy community with people who are also
Speaker 1: like growing and very inspired people. But I was I've
Speaker 1: been last year. Twenty twenty two was the year that
Speaker 1: I did so much girl going and shed so many
Speaker 1: old stories and broke so broke through so many blocks
Speaker 1: that have been holding me back from my entire forty
Speaker 1: years of life. And I just committed to self growth
Speaker 1: last year. I committed to learning. I committed to finding teachers.
Speaker 1: I committed to like having guidance. And so I ended
Speaker 1: up signing up for Kathy Heller's Mastermind, who's one of
Speaker 1: your friends, And she had a retreat in California, And
Speaker 1: you came to that retreat and you had a conversation.
Speaker 1: This is probably just your everyday conversation that you have
Speaker 1: with the meeting of the minds, the minds that you
Speaker 1: meet with. This is probably your regular conversation. But you
Speaker 1: had a conversation with Kathy about boundaries, and you explained them,
Speaker 1: and you gave examples, and you broke them down into
Speaker 1: words that I could understand. And I literally at the
Speaker 1: beginning of two I have always struggled with feeling like
Speaker 1: not enough and worthless, and that's been like a huge,
Speaker 1: my my like thing that I struggle with. And so
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm I have a daughter who's three,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I have a great platform. I
Speaker 1: have amazing ways to shine lights. I was like light
Speaker 1: to the world, and I'm like, I have to get
Speaker 1: myself right, like I have to get I have to
Speaker 1: figure out what it is. And I couldn't figure out
Speaker 1: what it is. And I've been in therapy for years.
Speaker 1: I had done every kind of therapy you can imagine.
Speaker 1: I know there's something that I need to rewire, but
Speaker 1: I just could never figure it out until you that
Speaker 1: conversation that you had about boundaries. I felt after you
Speaker 1: were talking and daring you were talking, I was like
Speaker 1: having a full body like like not not like it's
Speaker 1: just like it was going through my body so intensely.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Oh my god, Oh
Speaker 1: my god. Oh my God, like it clicks so much.
Speaker 1: I felt like the man with the iron mask. I
Speaker 1: felt like I had had an iron mask on my
Speaker 1: head for forty years, and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I got a key and I could take the whole
Speaker 1: thing off, and I was like, my whole world, I'm
Speaker 1: not only a people pleaser, and like I have, I
Speaker 1: thought I had all these boundaries because I have done
Speaker 1: great things. I can trust my gut, but i've but
Speaker 1: I have wanted the entire world to co sign that
Speaker 1: I'm worthy and that they loved me and that they
Speaker 1: approve of me, not just like certain people, the entire world,
Speaker 1: harry everyone that I meet. That's why I got an
Speaker 1: entertainment Instagram, like you love me? Do you love me?
Speaker 1: I can read a room like nobody's business. I'm an impact.
Speaker 1: I can do all these things, and so I would
Speaker 1: just use them to make sure I was doing things
Speaker 1: to make people love me so they could see me.
Speaker 1: And it was exhausting and I was like breaking. And
Speaker 1: it's not that I didn't genuinely feel these things about people,
Speaker 1: but I was using it also so they could love
Speaker 1: me back. Right, And you changed my life, like you
Speaker 1: changed my life Jerry, I am not kidding, like change
Speaker 1: my life. I've had some huge life moments and you
Speaker 1: single handedly changed my life. Well that is some testimonial, sister,
Speaker 1: and really really really really warms my heart to hear, honestly, like,
Speaker 1: it's amazing how you can do exactly what you did. This.
Speaker 1: It's a shift. And maybe you heard those things before,
Speaker 1: maybe you heard them in different scenarios. But when the
Speaker 1: student is ready, the right teacher appears. We have lots
Speaker 1: of teachers along the way, but it was like you
Speaker 1: being ready to make those changes that allowed you. I
Speaker 1: believe to see that conversation as the key to the
Speaker 1: iron mask that you could then take off. And isn't
Speaker 1: it better? I felt? After that conversation, I had lunched
Speaker 1: with another one of the girls in the Mastermind. He's
Speaker 1: like a great mom wellness expert and like has a
Speaker 1: book about mothering and she's just really wise and she's
Speaker 1: about ten years older than me and I just so
Speaker 1: there at lunch and I couldn't speak. I was like,
Speaker 1: I I don't know how to like process what just happened,
Speaker 1: like this, what this what this codependency was taking up
Speaker 1: in my space in my brain was probably like eight
Speaker 1: percent of the energy I have in my brain. And
Speaker 1: so it's like, all of a sudden, I have all
Speaker 1: of this space that just opened up because I realized
Speaker 1: I have created little, tiny constructs in every single area
Speaker 1: of my life with every person I meet with, every
Speaker 1: person that I am in community with, and who's in
Speaker 1: my life, even my daughter. I'm I was I'm a
Speaker 1: codependent with like I literally figure out what people need
Speaker 1: from me to get a response that makes me feel loved,
Speaker 1: and then I just continually give that and give that
Speaker 1: and give that. And I'm so fired up to be
Speaker 1: in your presence. I literally realized I have created tiny
Speaker 1: little ecosystems for everyone that I know and love, and
Speaker 1: I've placed this in roles, and I like, have I
Speaker 1: signed roles to what everyone's supposed to play. So I
Speaker 1: have to uphold this little movie that I've made that's
Speaker 1: not real, and no one else is playing in it
Speaker 1: or in it but me, and I can just actually
Speaker 1: stop all of it and just be myself and let
Speaker 1: everyone else just be themselves. And I don't have to
Speaker 1: save anyone. I don't have to turn a conversation a
Speaker 1: certain way to make sure someone feels a certain way,
Speaker 1: or I can just go in with my pure aligned
Speaker 1: heart and let the freaking cookie crumble. For however, it's
Speaker 1: gonna crumble with everyone in that room without me and
Speaker 1: visibly trying to hold everyone together in this little net
Speaker 1: that I have. It's like drop it like it. I
Speaker 1: can't describe you the freedom that came after that conversation.
Speaker 1: It's so amazing. And what you're describing, this is what
Speaker 1: I experience over and over and over again with the
Speaker 1: women in my practice, in my mastermind and my courses,
Speaker 1: in people who listen to my podcast, people who read
Speaker 1: the book Boundarybuss where they're it's almost like this profound
Speaker 1: epiphany that we didn't know we had a choice. I
Speaker 1: didn't even know it was happening. That was the thing
Speaker 1: that was so baffling, is I knew there was something
Speaker 1: wrong with me, not like a negative way, but I
Speaker 1: knew I had a block, Like I knew there was
Speaker 1: a big block because I had done enough work. I've
Speaker 1: lived enough life. I've surrounded myself with incredible minds and
Speaker 1: thinkers like yourself. I believe in higher thinking. I know
Speaker 1: these things. So I'm like, why am I still feeling
Speaker 1: so worthless? Like, this is not all adding up. There's
Speaker 1: something going on in here that I cannot figure out.
Speaker 1: And you, the Queen figured it, just dropped it on
Speaker 1: me and I was like, Wow, that's it, that is it.
Speaker 1: And I told myself I was going to find out
Speaker 1: what this was. By the end of turning fort in July,
Speaker 1: I was like, I am figuring this out. I'm not
Speaker 1: going into a new decade with this old ship. Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. So I just started going towards
Speaker 1: all the teachers that were coming in my life and
Speaker 1: I was led straight too. That's unbelievable. So how can
Speaker 1: we share some of this goodness with your people? Oh? Man? Okay,
Speaker 1: So where is the notebook that I took? Hold on,
Speaker 1: let me grab this notebook just one second. Sure, I
Speaker 1: took a note things that you were saying in this
Speaker 1: interview that you did, and I'm just gonna read some
Speaker 1: of them because they like blew my mind, and then
Speaker 1: maybe we can break down some of your essential just
Speaker 1: like enlightened people who have never even realized, like myself,
Speaker 1: who had no idea that they were codependent, like literally
Speaker 1: had no idea, just maybe some quick ways to like
Speaker 1: turn on the light bulb like, oh, you may be
Speaker 1: codependent if you do this. So you said this, You
Speaker 1: said codependency is being overly invested in feeling states, outcomes,
Speaker 1: circumstances of people in my life, to my detriment, high
Speaker 1: functioning codependency doing all the things. This is me just
Speaker 1: quietly in my head. I'm just mentally doing all the things,
Speaker 1: not really physically. I'm just mentally doing all the things,
Speaker 1: doing all the things for all the people and make
Speaker 1: it look easy. Your baseline is you, it's your bid
Speaker 1: for control of the outcomes, not having and this is
Speaker 1: this is so true. This is like a reality check
Speaker 1: not having the emotional courage to allow the chips to
Speaker 1: fall where they may, like, let the people be who
Speaker 1: they want to be, and then me step in and
Speaker 1: support to the best of my ability. But like, it's
Speaker 1: not my job to walk a tight rope to try
Speaker 1: to keep everyone from falling. Like everyone is on their
Speaker 1: own journey. Yes, it's also the part of the thing
Speaker 1: with it if we back it up a little bit,
Speaker 1: because I feel like there's a lot of missing information
Speaker 1: out there and misunderstandings about boundaries and about codependency and there,
Speaker 1: and they are just intricately connected. So according to me,
Speaker 1: what are your boundaries, your preferences, your limits, your deal breakers.
Speaker 1: So I think that right there, there's confusion. People think
Speaker 1: there's a at midst about boundaries. People think, if you
Speaker 1: have good boundaries, you're saying no all the time, you're
Speaker 1: a bit, you're rejecting people, you're starting fights, you're none
Speaker 1: of that is accurate. What it means is that it's
Speaker 1: your own personal rules of engagement, letting other people know
Speaker 1: what's okay with you and what's not okay with you.
Speaker 1: So again, boundaries comprised of your preferences, your limits, and
Speaker 1: your deal breakers. And these are the things we have
Speaker 1: to communicate to people. And when we don't is when
Speaker 1: we end up feeling so resentful. Um feel like other
Speaker 1: people are really entitled that we feel put out. We
Speaker 1: feel we're exhausted right because we're bleeding bandwidth endlessly because
Speaker 1: people don't know. So instead of us being able to
Speaker 1: say someone says, hey, you want to come help me move,
Speaker 1: like for the fourth time in two years, you know,
Speaker 1: And instead of you being able to go, actually, I'm
Speaker 1: not available on Saturday. Good luck. I'll send you guys
Speaker 1: some lunch or whatever. It is you would like to
Speaker 1: do for your friend who moves a lot. Instead, we
Speaker 1: get so pissed about how is Betty so entitled that
Speaker 1: she would ask me to help her move? Again, I've
Speaker 1: done more than my share, I've helped her more than
Speaker 1: most of our other friends. Blah blah blah. We create
Speaker 1: all of these narratives in these stories and these why
Speaker 1: Betty isn't jerk now as opposed to simply saying I'm
Speaker 1: unavailable to help you move. That's it. You don't need
Speaker 1: to write a dissertation while you're unavailable. You don't need
Speaker 1: to be right or wrong about being unavailable. You're just
Speaker 1: sucking unavailable, And that is okay. When we do that,
Speaker 1: all of that spinning out and that tripping out, and
Speaker 1: that worrying about what Betty is thinking and doing, about
Speaker 1: making Betty wrong for asking right, that's what we need
Speaker 1: to do because we're so uncomfortable and simply asserting the
Speaker 1: boundary that says I'm not available to help her move
Speaker 1: because I don't come want to. I love her and
Speaker 1: there are other people. You don't even have to be busy, right, literally,
Speaker 1: you might just go no, I have done it. I
Speaker 1: don't want to So that's boundaries. Now let's move this
Speaker 1: into codependency. As you said from your notes. According to me,
Speaker 1: codependency is being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes,
Speaker 1: the decisions, that relationships of the people in our lives,
Speaker 1: to the detriment of our own internal peace or maybe
Speaker 1: our financial well being. Right, we're so invested in that
Speaker 1: person not failing, we're giving them money, We're or our
Speaker 1: emotional well being or our spiritual well being. In some
Speaker 1: way it is detrimental to us, meaning we're not just
Speaker 1: invested like normal people. Of course, we're invested in the
Speaker 1: people we love. We want them to be happy. Obviously,
Speaker 1: this is called being in healthy relationships. But when we're
Speaker 1: overly invested, we feel overly responsible for their feelings, their situation,
Speaker 1: their decision, their relationships, their circumstances. In a way, this
Speaker 1: is where the dysfunction comes in. And what is that
Speaker 1: comprised of? What does that mean? That means codependency is
Speaker 1: built on disordered boundaries. Right, we are stepping over boundaries
Speaker 1: all the time, feeling overly responsible, not realizing that we
Speaker 1: are trampling on the sovereignty of other people because we
Speaker 1: are compulsively doing what we're doing. We're not mindfully choosing
Speaker 1: what we're doing. We're not meditating on what we should
Speaker 1: do and then doing it. We are just jumping into
Speaker 1: action because we're fear driven. There's a million reasons. So
Speaker 1: with high functioning codependency, which is the topic of my
Speaker 1: next book, which will come out in a year and
Speaker 1: a half from now, why that why that topic? Why
Speaker 1: did I create basically a new definition? Because if I
Speaker 1: were just talking to you, you know, Caroline, if I
Speaker 1: was just talking to you about codependency and dependent and
Speaker 1: enabling behaviors, you would not see yourself there. You'd be
Speaker 1: like dependent, What I'm doing all the things for all
Speaker 1: the people. Yeah, I'm kicking depended, I'm opposite. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: doing it all. I'm I'm doing TV things and I'm
Speaker 1: doing this, I'm doing that. I've got these things that
Speaker 1: I'm doing for other people. You wouldn't identify with it,
Speaker 1: but your pain and suffering that you were experiencing before
Speaker 1: Kathy Heller and I have that conversation that was directly
Speaker 1: related to being a high functioning codependent. So one of
Speaker 1: the major differences between regular codependency that we know about
Speaker 1: and high functioning codependency is the level of competence. You
Speaker 1: are an incredibly capable person. The women in particular who
Speaker 1: were attracted to my work are that. So we make
Speaker 1: it look easy. So No and is double checking in
Speaker 1: on you to be like, yeah, I wonder how you're doing.
Speaker 1: I wonder how she is. They're like, she's confined. It's
Speaker 1: like everything in my orbit and life is going to
Speaker 1: be functioning well. Like I'm not gonna let it drop exactly.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel I relate to you. It's like,
Speaker 1: if you're happening in my life and I'm responsible, you're
Speaker 1: in my in my sphere, I'm gonna hold you up.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep you held. But at what cost? And
Speaker 1: that's what we were really talking about, Kathy and I
Speaker 1: were really talking about, is understanding that functioning at that
Speaker 1: level and in that way has a cost, not just
Speaker 1: your health, not just your bandwidth, not to just your brain,
Speaker 1: It has a cost to your relationships because when you
Speaker 1: really think about it, high functioning or regular as codependency
Speaker 1: is a covert or overt bid to control someone else's outcome.
Speaker 1: You said this too, which stopped me in my tracks.
Speaker 1: It follow what you're saying because you actually thought this
Speaker 1: and said it. But you said this, and this is me.
Speaker 1: This is so me, And I'm so cool, calm and
Speaker 1: collected and casual about it too, Like I'm actually pretty
Speaker 1: secret about how controlling I am. Like if you meet me,
Speaker 1: I'm like all love and light and chill and I'm
Speaker 1: like loving to like uplift and you know, I look
Speaker 1: through easy breezy. But here is the truth of the
Speaker 1: centure of me, which is what makes you think you
Speaker 1: know what lessons every person needs to learn. You are
Speaker 1: actually blocking the person from experiencing what that person needs
Speaker 1: to experience. I what So, what I'm really doing is
Speaker 1: inserting myself in the middle of others lives because I
Speaker 1: think and this is the ego like check like whoa,
Speaker 1: because it's true. I think that I know better for
Speaker 1: everyone what they need to learn. And I was like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: I do think that. That's why we're you know, now
Speaker 1: recovering high functioning codependence. Where the awareness here's the key
Speaker 1: that you talked about before having this realization, this is
Speaker 1: now this You cannot There is no unringing that realization
Speaker 1: bell that you had in that moment. None. You will
Speaker 1: never go back to having those experiences being in the
Speaker 1: basement of your mind, as I like to call it,
Speaker 1: which is your unconscious mind. We all have these processes
Speaker 1: that are going on unconsciously. But what we did together
Speaker 1: in that meeting is I put on a little miner's
Speaker 1: lamp on my head, I grabbed your hand, and we
Speaker 1: walked down the stairs to the basement of your mind,
Speaker 1: and we opened up a bunch of dusty ask boxes
Speaker 1: and brought that ship to the main part of the house,
Speaker 1: which is where we can turn the lights on and
Speaker 1: open the windows and go, Okay, wow, this is what
Speaker 1: I'm actually doing. Let me have compassion for myself. Let
Speaker 1: me not shame myself and make myself feel bad about
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, when I realized this in my late twenties,
Speaker 1: I was embarrassed. I was humiliated. I was ashamed. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god. I totally thought I was
Speaker 1: like mother Theresa, and now I realized I'm like just
Speaker 1: a control freak, and it was really all about me
Speaker 1: being uncomfortable because that person's life is a freaking dumpster fire,
Speaker 1: and that dumpster fire is really fucking with my internal peace.
Speaker 1: That's what was going on. Oh my God, how you're
Speaker 1: giving and you're giving and you're giving, and you're pouring
Speaker 1: yourself out there and you're doing all these things and
Speaker 1: you're really trying to be helpful and you're trying to
Speaker 1: give great advice and you're trying to show up and
Speaker 1: you're trying to be like, you'll get it. This is
Speaker 1: the one I'm gonna hold your hand. But it's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: you are trying to control that person's life and what
Speaker 1: they're in and what they're learning and their their moment,
Speaker 1: whatever season they're in, that's their lesson, and you pray
Speaker 1: it comes on the other side. But it's like, how
Speaker 1: could we think we know what's best? Well, but we do,
Speaker 1: and and so many of us do. I'm writing a
Speaker 1: fan book about it, like it is such a pandemic
Speaker 1: speaking of that I saw in I mean, I've been
Speaker 1: a psychotherapist for twenty five years and I've seen tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of women in particular suffering from this, and
Speaker 1: it didn't make sense the whole Just talking about codependency
Speaker 1: didn't make sense because everyone thought I was talking about
Speaker 1: you must be involved with an addict. It's all about
Speaker 1: enabling behavior. It is so much more complicated than that,
Speaker 1: and it is so much more pervasive than that. It's
Speaker 1: not just about romantic relationships or enabling your parents who's
Speaker 1: an alcoholic to keep drinking. No, no, and yeah, those
Speaker 1: things fall under codependency too, But what we're talking about
Speaker 1: is a completely different animal that is really born out
Speaker 1: of the time in history that we live as women,
Speaker 1: especially in the United States or in the Northeast, or
Speaker 1: in any sort of developed country where it started in
Speaker 1: the seventies, only in the seventies, late sixties, early seventies,
Speaker 1: where women allowed to be more than a nurse, a teacher,
Speaker 1: or secretary allowed to be. So of course the mindset
Speaker 1: is programmed and been passed down, and this is why
Speaker 1: we're the first ones that are starting to de program right,
Speaker 1: and and to feel like we're gonna now, oh my god,
Speaker 1: we're going to college, we're getting master's degrees, where we
Speaker 1: are creating empires, careers on TV, changing lives, doing all
Speaker 1: of this stuff. And nobody was like, oh, now I'm
Speaker 1: going to pick up the slack at home, right, So
Speaker 1: this whole superwoman thing that came about, right was like,
Speaker 1: I don't want them to take away my ability to
Speaker 1: be a doctor, a lawyer of frigging you know, Supreme
Speaker 1: Court justice. Like I don't want that. So I don't
Speaker 1: want there to be any problems. I want to the
Speaker 1: the house is running great, the kids are on track
Speaker 1: to go to ivy leagues or whatever whatever it is
Speaker 1: that matters, because like it was so it was held
Speaker 1: so it was like a carrot dangling and like if
Speaker 1: you do anything wrong, you're gonna lose it. You have
Speaker 1: to be perfect. Yes, So it's not like it came
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. To a degree that my generation and
Speaker 1: the generations younger than me and the generations one older
Speaker 1: than me, I have this feeling that we must do
Speaker 1: it all. So high functioning codependency has been bred through
Speaker 1: the cultural changes that have happened, which is why it's
Speaker 1: like now it's exploding in this way of doing more
Speaker 1: emotional labor. How exhausted women are and how exhausted we feel,
Speaker 1: and how it's so hard to rest, it's so hard
Speaker 1: to ask for help, it's so hard to you know,
Speaker 1: it's like we just feel like it's got to be me.
Speaker 1: I gotta be doing it all. Thinking about how even
Speaker 1: in my twenties and I'm in my fifties. Now it's like,
Speaker 1: how you know, I'd be going to Europe or wherever
Speaker 1: and the cab driver pulls up and I can't even
Speaker 1: let the guy put my freaking luggage in the trunk.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm getting out. I'm like, I got it,
Speaker 1: opening the thing, lifting the thing up and throwing and
Speaker 1: I'm like there was so much habituated behavior and hyper
Speaker 1: independence that comes along with this experience where maybe we
Speaker 1: don't want to owe anybody ship that's possible, Maybe we
Speaker 1: don't want to burden others because how much of the
Speaker 1: time when you're a high function and codependants, so much
Speaker 1: of the time we're sort of expert listeners and auto fixers. Right,
Speaker 1: You're gonna tell me your problem, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: have your solution. Most of the time f I with
Speaker 1: my clients and my own experience, people are like, well,
Speaker 1: how are you You're that great? Fine? Fine? Like I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't whatever advice you're going to
Speaker 1: give a problem I gonna take anyway. But it's it's
Speaker 1: sort of not wanting the focus in that way to
Speaker 1: be on us because we're kind of take charge type
Speaker 1: of people and we want to be in the position
Speaker 1: that we're comfortable being in. But the cost to your relationships.
Speaker 1: And I think that this is something that is not
Speaker 1: talked about often, is that you're in the centering of
Speaker 1: ourselves inadvertently, right Like I didn't. I wasn't some purposefully
Speaker 1: doing that, and I know you weren't either, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: and nobody listening to this if you identify as a
Speaker 1: high functioning codependent, there's no do not, there's no shape. Right.
Speaker 1: We're just taking this ship from the basement of your
Speaker 1: mind and bringing into the main part of the house
Speaker 1: so you can make shifts in your behavior. And the
Speaker 1: first thing is understanding something that I had to learn
Speaker 1: too that is worth holding a boundary for is spreading
Speaker 1: myself of too thin, giving myself to everyone who asked
Speaker 1: me for something because of what we're talking about. Because
Speaker 1: I want to uphold this image of love and helpfulness
Speaker 1: and kindness, because that is my heart. But it's like
Speaker 1: I by doing that though, because I want to make
Speaker 1: sure you keep that good image of me in your mind,
Speaker 1: I am saying that the boundary or the space that
Speaker 1: I was going to give myself to have like a
Speaker 1: walk and outside and clear my head and to listen
Speaker 1: to a fueling podcast, or you know, just actually have
Speaker 1: some time to fill my wellness cup, which now I
Speaker 1: am realizing is like the most important thing for all
Speaker 1: of it. It's like you're saying all my needs are
Speaker 1: not important at or or you're you're saying that like
Speaker 1: I can't hold a space for what I actually mean,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just sacrifice that to make sure I can
Speaker 1: keep everyone else loving me and this whole thing going.
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, oh my god, if I if
Speaker 1: I feel myself off at all, I have to find
Speaker 1: the next spot in my day to give myself time
Speaker 1: to recalibrate it, or else it just compas on each other.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it's it absolutely does. And also the
Speaker 1: real problem with all of this, with the over functioning
Speaker 1: and the over giving and the over delivering, is that
Speaker 1: we end up presentful. So the same people that we
Speaker 1: say we care about, in the same people that we
Speaker 1: want to hold us in all of this high esteem,
Speaker 1: we start thinking they're idiots. We start being like Jesus,
Speaker 1: why why does this person still need this from me?
Speaker 1: Or why are they asking me for this again? So
Speaker 1: in the beginning, it's almost like a high where we
Speaker 1: can help and we can be the savior, we can
Speaker 1: be the hero, and then that gets really tired and
Speaker 1: you don't want to keep doing it. I created a
Speaker 1: gift for your audience though, around codependency. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to give you the EURA and you can put it
Speaker 1: in the show notes called um they can they can
Speaker 1: get it at Boundary Boss, Stop Me Forward Slash Get
Speaker 1: Real also, and it's it's about the It's there's a
Speaker 1: video and there's a downloadable guide because I want listeners
Speaker 1: to be able to dive a little bit more deeply
Speaker 1: into their personal experience. Because as much as I teach this,
Speaker 1: your unique life experience is what made you you as
Speaker 1: mine did me, and as every listener and watcher everyone
Speaker 1: has a unique sort of downloaded boundary and codependency blueprint.
Speaker 1: So this will help bring some of this to the
Speaker 1: service for them. That's amazing, Terry. Honestly, you you change
Speaker 1: my life and everyone listening to this. If you have
Speaker 1: been unaware of boundaries, or if you thought you had boundaries,
Speaker 1: if you had no idea, you are high functioning codependent,
Speaker 1: like I had no idea that I was. I encourage
Speaker 1: you to get her book I got your book. I
Speaker 1: had your book not only in the book form, but
Speaker 1: I also bought it on an audio book because I
Speaker 1: just needed to have the option to listen to what
Speaker 1: I was driving as well. When I started learning all this,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I need this blooded in my brain seven,
Speaker 1: Like I have to rewire my entire life, you know.
Speaker 1: But it's been kind of excited because now that I
Speaker 1: am so aware of boundaries, and now I'm so aware
Speaker 1: of my alignment. Like I'm just so aware of like
Speaker 1: when I feel like I'm in correct alignment with myself
Speaker 1: and like supporting what my soul wants to do. And
Speaker 1: so I feel now like when I do have moments
Speaker 1: where I cross my own boundaries or I'm going back
Speaker 1: to all behavior, I can feel it. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of like this fun game to like pull it back
Speaker 1: in and then to watch yourself do it the new way,
Speaker 1: and then to see how a new situation unfolded. That
Speaker 1: was so much chiller, better, more I could actually let people.
Speaker 1: I could look at people and see them for who
Speaker 1: they are and what they're saying instead of what I'm
Speaker 1: projecting on them and how I'm trying to manipulate the
Speaker 1: conversation and it's just like it's like your arms are
Speaker 1: like this when you're trying to hold when you don't
Speaker 1: have bounds. And then so you can just sit back
Speaker 1: and relax and be like what, wow, what was I
Speaker 1: doing for so long? And you realize people are actually
Speaker 1: kind of like better than what you're giving them credit for,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and they are whatever they're going to be.
Speaker 1: What you get to do is replace control with really
Speaker 1: like radical curiosity, yes, yes, like who are you actually? Like?
Speaker 1: Okay here? And another thing I do with myself because
Speaker 1: I do come in trying to make sure the room
Speaker 1: is set in the right tone, and so I'll come
Speaker 1: in with all my stuff and I'm trying to just
Speaker 1: like walk in now and don't even talk, just like
Speaker 1: walk in, be in the room. And I mean I
Speaker 1: don't just all the time, but when I remember, I
Speaker 1: always love it because it's like let everyone else lead,
Speaker 1: let me see who everyone else is, what they actually
Speaker 1: want to talk about. Instead of me exerting all this
Speaker 1: energy to put this conversation out to get it all
Speaker 1: going on, I feel like it needs to be just
Speaker 1: like actually, why don't I take the sit in the
Speaker 1: passenger seat and just get back. I don't have to
Speaker 1: do anything here besides be myself. Yeah, and what what
Speaker 1: a beautiful open energy to come into a room with
Speaker 1: rather than this controlling energy, even if our hearts are
Speaker 1: in the right place. So again, it's not there's no
Speaker 1: meanness in being a high functioning codependent or having disordered boundaries.
Speaker 1: It's simply dysfunctional. And it is not optimal for the
Speaker 1: quality of your internal experience, your external experience, and your relationships.
Speaker 1: That's it. It is not optimal. So if you want
Speaker 1: deeply intimate relationships, and if you want deep success, that
Speaker 1: feels like success because here's the thing. You could be
Speaker 1: at the top of your game, doing all the things
Speaker 1: for all the people, making all the money in the world.
Speaker 1: But if you are doing it from a high functioning
Speaker 1: codependent place, it's not going to feel good for long. Amen.
Speaker 1: Amen to that. Yes, well, thank you for your wisdom,
Speaker 1: thank you for the profound life changing effect you have
Speaker 1: had on me. I just want you to know that
Speaker 1: like your work and your commitment to this work, and
Speaker 1: the way that you are sharing your work with your
Speaker 1: book boundary boss, with the way you give podcasts and speak,
Speaker 1: and the way you share and run courses. It is
Speaker 1: so amazing and I am so grateful for women and
Speaker 1: teachers and guides like you who have done this such
Speaker 1: hard work on topics that we need to know, and
Speaker 1: you have consolidated it for us and you can teach
Speaker 1: it to us in ways that we can understand. And
Speaker 1: it is just to have teachers and guides and mentors
Speaker 1: like you in the world. It's such a blessing. I'm
Speaker 1: so privileged to be in your orbit and in your
Speaker 1: realm and to have learned from you. So everyone, y'all
Speaker 1: need to pick up Boundary Boss. Go to that link.
Speaker 1: Let's say the link one more time so everyone can
Speaker 1: remember where to go. Boundary Boss dot me forward slash
Speaker 1: get real awesome. I always wrap up with leave your
Speaker 1: light and it's just super open ended. What do you
Speaker 1: want people to know that they can do this? That
Speaker 1: whatever level you're living at right now, if you are
Speaker 1: not literally thrilled, there's more that you can do internal
Speaker 1: work that will create a more satisfying, thrilling, rich life
Speaker 1: experience for you. That is so key. Internal work. You
Speaker 1: don't have to go change your life, change your house,
Speaker 1: change your spouse, like abandon your kids and quit your job.
Speaker 1: You can actually just learn this and shift your brain
Speaker 1: in what, like you said, whatever circumstance you're in, and
Speaker 1: by shifting your brain, your circumstances are going to shift
Speaker 1: as well. Correct. Correct, you are amazing. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Terry Cole. Like this was like a thrill when I
Speaker 1: got back from Cathy's retreat and heard this conversation, and
Speaker 1: then I realized that, like I was getting to have
Speaker 1: a podcast with you. I was like, the universe loves me,
Speaker 1: like I am on track, like I am aligned, Like
Speaker 1: this is like too good to be true. I cannot
Speaker 1: believe this is happening. I am so grateful. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. This was Honestly, I haven't so many podcasts
Speaker 1: with so many amazing people, but this was one that
Speaker 1: was I was so excited about just because you, Terry,
Speaker 1: have changed my life, and I know you are community
Speaker 1: so many people's lives, So thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1: It was so awesome and if you're all in an
Speaker 1: honor to get to talk with you, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me. I appreciate you