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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri

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Speaker 1: back with Randall Fitzgerald as we're talking about his research

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Speaker 1: and his work Alien in the Mirror. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about several of the UFO cases he's investigated and

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Speaker 1: then get to your calls. Randall, Let's start with this

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Speaker 1: case in Washington, DC that involves CIA officials. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about that story. Yes, that is an interesting one because

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Speaker 1: it involves a woman named Francis Juan. This was in

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Speaker 1: the early to mid nineteen fifties. She was a channeler

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Speaker 1: and she believed that she was channeling an extraterrestrial entity

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Speaker 1: named Afafa, and that this entity was giving her information

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Speaker 1: that many of the contacts during that period of time

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Speaker 1: were receiving having to do with the fate planet Earth

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Speaker 1: and nuclear weapons and so forth. Somehow, she attracted the

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Speaker 1: attention of the Naval Intelligence Service in Washington, DC, and

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Speaker 1: Naval Intelligence began sending out officers to interview her. She

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Speaker 1: had also attracted attention from Wilbert Smith, who was the

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Speaker 1: head of radio engineering for the Canadian government, and he

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Speaker 1: had made trips to interview her, and this went on

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Speaker 1: for several years, these a series of trips by Naval

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Speaker 1: Intelligence and representatives of the Canadian government, and eventually, for

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Speaker 1: some reason, what she was providing by way of information

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Speaker 1: technical information, attracted the attention of the CIA. And what

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Speaker 1: transpired is that a naval intelligence officer who had met

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Speaker 1: with missus Swan in Maine, a rural part of Maine

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Speaker 1: where she lived, and she taught him how to channel

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Speaker 1: and how to connect with AFA, and he believed that

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Speaker 1: he was channeling this into the named AFA, and he

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Speaker 1: wanted to prove it, so he arranged a meeting with

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Speaker 1: several CIA officers in a downtown Washington, d C. Office.

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Speaker 1: One of those officers with Arthur Lundall. Arthur Lundall was

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Speaker 1: the head of the CIA's photographic department, which analyzed the photographs,

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Speaker 1: and had in fact been someone who was interested in

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Speaker 1: UFOs the Trentmanton UFO sighting some years earlier. He had

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Speaker 1: examined the photographs associated with that in in respect, what

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Speaker 1: happened was that a meeting occurred in nineteen fifty seven

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Speaker 1: at this office in downtown Washington, d C. And it

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Speaker 1: was this lieutenant commander with Naval intelligence, and he began

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Speaker 1: channeling AffA, trying to prove to these two CIA officers

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Speaker 1: that ALFA existed. They asked him a series of questions,

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Speaker 1: and one of the questions was, can you prove you

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Speaker 1: are who you say you are by manifesting a UFO

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Speaker 1: right now? And this Lieutenant Commander of using the voice

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Speaker 1: of half A reply yes, go to the window. And

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Speaker 1: these two officers proceeded to go to the window and

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Speaker 1: look out, and they saw what they would later claim

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Speaker 1: was a silvery object in the sky. One of the

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Speaker 1: officers got on the telephone and called up a radar

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Speaker 1: station there in the Washington, DC area, asking if they

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Speaker 1: could find the radar signature of this object they were

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Speaker 1: seeing in the sky, and the response was no, we

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Speaker 1: can't because that area of the sky is blacked out

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Speaker 1: to us right now, we don't have access to it,

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Speaker 1: which was highly unusual actually. So what transpired were a

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Speaker 1: series of meetings after that involving the CIA, Naval Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and Project Bluebook investigators that were sent from right Patterson

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Speaker 1: Airfield in Ohio, and in part of Alien in the

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Speaker 1: Mirror dedicate quite a bit of that particular chapter that

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Speaker 1: section on contact these and abductees to this particular case

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Speaker 1: because I had gone in the late seventies to Maine

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Speaker 1: and interviewed Missus Swan she was still alive. I had

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Speaker 1: interviewed Arthur Lundall with the CIA, along with the Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: Colonel Robert Prynne, who had been associated with Project Book

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Speaker 1: at that time, and all of these people were telling

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Speaker 1: this story, and for the most part, the story jived

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Speaker 1: with each individual, but there were some discrepancies. For instance,

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Speaker 1: so Lundall refused to acknowledge that he had seen a

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Speaker 1: UFO in the sky. But then Jacques Vallet was able

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Speaker 1: to get a hold of an internal CIA memo that

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Speaker 1: his collaborator, the astronomer j. Llen Heinig, had gotten a

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Speaker 1: home of and Jacques Valet I saw the memo through Jacques,

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Speaker 1: and this particular memo is about twelve pages long. I

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Speaker 1: reproduce it in the book. By the way, it tells

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Speaker 1: the entire story of what happened. And Jacques eventually had

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Speaker 1: a personal conversation with this Arthur Lundall of the CIA,

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Speaker 1: who had since retired from the agency, and Lundall, according

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Speaker 1: to Jacques, verified that everything in this CIA memo was true.

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Speaker 1: So basically Lundall had lied to me when I tried

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Speaker 1: to put him on the record of in print about

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Speaker 1: what had transpired, but then confided that it was all

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Speaker 1: true the Jacques Valet, and that in turn was verified

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Speaker 1: by this memo, which is reproduced in the book. Now

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Speaker 1: tell us about your work on the Phoenix Lights. You

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Speaker 1: interviewed fifty witnesses, and also tell us about this tragic

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Speaker 1: aftermath that fascinates me. Yes, I did an article for

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Speaker 1: Reader's Digest in my role as a roving editor that

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Speaker 1: appeared in a nineteen ninety eight issue. And of course

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Speaker 1: the Phoenix Lights I call them the Arizona Lights because

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Speaker 1: the sighting, the mass sighting, was through the entire state

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Speaker 1: of Arizona, which occurred of March thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 1: In the aftermath of it, I had gone to Arizona

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Speaker 1: and searching for witnesses, and I ended up interviewing about

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Speaker 1: fifty people who had seen the lights that night. And

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Speaker 1: I was interested particularly in three categories of witnesses. I

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Speaker 1: wanted interview witnesses who had looked at the five lights

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Speaker 1: in the sky coming from the direction of the Hilo

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Speaker 1: commet through binoculars. I wanted to get as many of

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Speaker 1: them as possible, and I found at least a half

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Speaker 1: a dozen people that had looked through binoculars at these lights.

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Speaker 1: Also wanted to get interviews with pilots who had been

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Speaker 1: flying in the sky that night and might have come

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Speaker 1: close or had seen at a distance of the lights.

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Speaker 1: And I also wanted to interview air traffic controllers. I

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Speaker 1: was able to find witnesses in all three of those

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Speaker 1: categories among the fifty interviews that I conducted, and what

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Speaker 1: came about is something different from the usual story we

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Speaker 1: hear about what happened in the skies over Arizona that night.

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Speaker 1: I was curious about why the people that looked at

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Speaker 1: the lights through binoculars saw five independent lights that were

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Speaker 1: not connected and that were flying with lights in their

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Speaker 1: nose ending lights pointed down toward the ground. It was

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Speaker 1: as if this formation of lights wanted to be seen

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Speaker 1: as it traversed the entire state of Arizona, and then

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Speaker 1: as the lights got closer to the city limits of Phoenix.

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Speaker 1: As I interviewed people, what they saw was that the

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Speaker 1: five lights seemed to be on one large object. So

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Speaker 1: I was curious, how could that happen? Was it an

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Speaker 1: atmospheric phenomenon that accounted for misjudging. How could five independent

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Speaker 1: lights that were seen by people in northern Arizona in

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Speaker 1: remote areas, seen through binoculars then become, according to the

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Speaker 1: witnesses in the Phoenix area in the suburbs, one independent object.

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Speaker 1: And then when the lights I headed towards two saw

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Speaker 1: on to the south that night, more people looked at

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Speaker 1: them through binoculars and they sell fight independent lights again.

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Speaker 1: I also in talking with the pilots that were in

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Speaker 1: the sky that night, they some pilots claimed that they

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Speaker 1: had had a radio conversation with the pilots of those

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Speaker 1: five lights, claiming that they were five independent aircraft. They

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Speaker 1: called themselves Snowbirds. I interviewed the Snowbirds representatives, that's a

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Speaker 1: Canadian high performance like group out of saskatch Gowan, and

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Speaker 1: I interviewed them, and they claimed that they were not

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Speaker 1: in the sky that night. So the mystery sort of deepened.

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Speaker 1: And then here's something that I speculated about. Could this

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Speaker 1: effect have been holographic soul? This had been a holographic

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Speaker 1: experiment where five independent lights seemed to merge into one

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Speaker 1: when they were over heavily populated areas. And then became

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Speaker 1: independent again after they left those areas and headed toward Tucson.

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Speaker 1: So I looked at what was in Tucson, and just

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Speaker 1: south of Tucson, near the Mexican border, there is a

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Speaker 1: fort Fort Hawachika. This is the psychological warfare training area

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Speaker 1: for all five of the services. It's run by the

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Speaker 1: US Army. There's an airfield there and they train people

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Speaker 1: from all the various branches of the military and psychological

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Speaker 1: warfare exercises. So I began to ask myself, could this

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Speaker 1: have been a psychological warfare exercise using holographic technology? So

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Speaker 1: I began again looking deeper. And there's an aspect of

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Speaker 1: what happened that night and then the weeks afterward that

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Speaker 1: isn't fully appreciated, And I call it the tragic aftermath

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Speaker 1: in the book, we've all heard about Heaven's Gate. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the San Diego area. You know the thirty nine

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Speaker 1: members that committed mass suicide. Why did they commit mass

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Speaker 1: suicide because they thought they were going to receive deliverance

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Speaker 1: from a UFO. What was the UFO? It was what

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Speaker 1: they thought was following the Hilbop comment and had appeared

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Speaker 1: in the skies two weeks earlier over Arizona on March thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. So it was this appearance in the

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Speaker 1: sky over Arizona that triggered the mass suicide of the

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Speaker 1: Heavens Gate cult. Then something else happened that's quite unusual.

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Speaker 1: Right after the heavens Gate Cult committed suicide, a Captain

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Speaker 1: Craig Button, a ten pilot flying out of two Sons Davis,

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Speaker 1: monthan Air Force base. This guy was thirty two years old.

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Speaker 1: He had read about what had happened over Arizona, the

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Speaker 1: Arizona Lights sighting, and he had concluded, based on interviews

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Speaker 1: done later with his parents, that it heralded the end

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Speaker 1: of the world. He crashed his eight ten thunderboat Fighter

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Speaker 1: eight hundred miles off course, intentionally crashing it into a

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Speaker 1: Colorado mountain because he was convinced that the rights in

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Speaker 1: the case at the end of the world. But the

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Speaker 1: story gets even more complex. A week or so later,

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Speaker 1: another a ten pilot flying out of that same airbase

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Speaker 1: in Tucson Davis, Monton. Her name was Captain Amy Spaboda.

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Speaker 1: She crashed her a tin fighter into the desert of

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Speaker 1: southwestern Arizona, and the circumstances remained unclear surrounding her death,

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Speaker 1: but there was a pattern there of people thinking that

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Speaker 1: whatever happened over Arizona was an indication of something so

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Speaker 1: unsettling that they took their own lives. And then the

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Speaker 1: question I raised was if it was a psychological warfare

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Speaker 1: of experiment in the sky that night that involved holographic technology,

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Speaker 1: then whoever was involved, whoever initiated that particular speriment using

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Speaker 1: thousands of people in Arizona as guinea pigs, whoever initiated

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Speaker 1: it can be held responsible for the suicides of all

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Speaker 1: these people who felt that this was something so impactful

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Speaker 1: that they would take their own lives. And what about Iowa,

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Speaker 1: then we'll take calls. Yes, in Iowa, that is a

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Speaker 1: trace case of molten metal that was left after a

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Speaker 1: UFO sighting outside of Council Bluffs, Iowa in December nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven that I investigated, and there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of witnesses. They saw a fiery ball at the tree

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Speaker 1: line at night that hovered, then it fell to the earth,

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Speaker 1: that splattered, and there was this huge molten metal and

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Speaker 1: it was a type of metallic alloy, chiefly iron had

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Speaker 1: amounts of nickel and chromium in it, and this had

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Speaker 1: never been fully studied before. And Jacque Valet told me

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Speaker 1: about this case, and that's the reason why I particularly

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Speaker 1: It was an old case, but I singled it out.

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Speaker 1: And what made it even more interested is that residue

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Speaker 1: from this siding still existed right up till today. And

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Speaker 1: Jacques Vallet and a professor at Stanford University decided to

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Speaker 1: submit this metal to metallurgical testing that is much more

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Speaker 1: sophisticated than was available back in the nineteen seventies. And

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Speaker 1: they did that, and they published the results just this

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Speaker 1: past January in a science journal called Progress in Aerospace Sciences.

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Speaker 1: And this was the first UFO due case to be

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Speaker 1: submitted to these highly sophisticated tests and then to be

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Speaker 1: published the results to be published in a mainstream science journal.

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Speaker 1: And what they found were a lot of anomalies in

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Speaker 1: the structure, the metallic structure of this residue. But what

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Speaker 1: was even more important for the future of UFO studies

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Speaker 1: is that by having this publication give attention, serious attention

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Speaker 1: to this residue, it opens the door to future mainstream

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Speaker 1: science journals doing similar sorts of studies. Publishing articles on

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Speaker 1: the results of these metallurgical examinations of UFO residue. It's

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Speaker 1: baffle leen, This one's bafflein, Isn't it Yes? Yes? And

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Speaker 1: why it was picked out in particular by Jacques Vallet

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Speaker 1: you know stands the test of time. Listen to more

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one a m.

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more