WEBVTT - Fire Drill 021: The Next USGA President, Fred Perpall 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.040 You call the balls and strikes on yourself. In the game, 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.000 you play the ball as it lies, just like you 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.200 play the hand that you have been given in life. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.840 So I think there are fundamental things about this game that, 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.639 when we embrace them, actually not only improves our golf game, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:26.960 but improves our lives. Put another log on the fire 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:39.800 nobody hears give the time. Welcome back to the fire Pit. 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.720 I'm Matt Janella, and on this episode of the Fire Drill, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.519 Michael Bamberger introduces you to the next President of the 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.800 U s g A, who, along with leaders like Mike One, 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.000 seems to be shepherding in a new brand of blue coats. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.800 And I'm guessing the game will be better because of 0:00:55.880 --> 0:01:01.120 them and what they set out to accomplish accessibility, diversity, 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.759 and a true growth of the game. Before I turn 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.200 it over to Michael and his special guests, we want 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.800 to thank Dormy Workshop for making the next set of 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:14.400 merchandise will be dropping this week on Firepit Collective dot com. 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.280 We're lucky to have our logos on some of the 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.480 Bishop Family's handmade leather goods such as head covers, stash bags, 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.440 and glove caddies. Thanks to bag Boy for their support. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.800 Bag Boys Nitron Auto Open push Cart is the best 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.880 in the business and for me, it's not close. And 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.960 thanks to part points, our friends Brandon Ebert and Kevin 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.760 Quinley have created an app that changes the way you 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:43.080 can score the game, which is especially good for beginners, kids, families, 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.720 and buddy strips. Looking for an alternate format. Download the 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:54.680 app today and go make par Hi. This is Michael 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:56.920 Barmberger with the fire Pit Collective. I'm here with my 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.440 new buddy, Fred pur Paul. We live in Fred We 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.320 live in a very politically correct age where you're not 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.600 allowed to talk about how somebody looks, or how do 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.800 they dress, or really anything personal. But we don't do 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:10.839 the fire Pick Collective. So I'm just gonna tell one 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.720 quick thing about sort of meeting you from afar and 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.840 then actually meeting from you, and then I'm gonna turn 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.760 this whole thing over to you. But here's how I 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.560 saw Fred Paul November, and Fred, you correct me if 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.640 I have any part of this wrong. November of twenty 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.520 they had a master's Dustin Johnson won it, but there 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.760 were no spectators there because of the COVID pandemic restrictions. 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.480 But Fred was there, I don't know in what capacity. 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.040 And I saw this man, a very tall, elegant, dark 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:45.680 skinned man who dressed out of the Hogan playbook, and um, 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.919 I was like, who is this guy? And uh, and 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.200 the Master's being the Masters in that particular years, Masters 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:56.960 being a special one because there were so few people there. 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:58.799 I kept seeing Fred over and over and over again, 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.080 and then we started conversation and turned out that Fred 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.600 was really into golf and I'm really into golf. So 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.600 we sort of hit it off that way. But I 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:08.560 didn't know much about Fred's life. I knew he was 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.680 an architect in Dallas. I am going to turn this 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.200 over to Fred, I promise in a minute. Here. I 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.640 knew he was an architect and a and a builder 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.520 and very active in construction in design in Dallas, but 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.600 beyond that, he really didn't do anything. Then I'm into 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.760 Fred at at the p h A Championship at at 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.560 Southern Hills and Fred tells me he's gonna be the 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.320 next president of the U s g A. And I 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.560 followed golf closely, but somehow I did not know that fact. 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.520 So like I was like, wow, I really should know 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.680 I should know more about Fred, and then we've had 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.040 a series of great conversation that I'm going to write 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.200 about Fred for the fire Pit Collective of that length, 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.200 but we're gonna use this as a truncated version to 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.160 introduce Fred to UH, to our readers and our listeners. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.680 So Fred, thank you so much. Fred. To get any 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:54.400 part of that introduction wrong, Michael, that's true, and it's 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.000 great to be with you today and great to be 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.600 with your listeners. Well, that's great, Fred. I'm gonna start 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.280 with the most shocking thing of all. Tell the people 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:07.000 when you begin when you began playing golf. Well, Michael, 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.440 I hope we'll have a fun time today. And uh, 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.640 you know, I think part of my story that I think, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.800 you know, it's pretty interesting. I've been golfing for just 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.400 under ten years, and uh, I moved to Dallas in January, 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.000 and I picked up golf and m mostly because I 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.960 am an addict to competition. I love sports and I 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.120 love nature and my basketball career, you know, I like 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.240 to say basketball had left me and I was looking 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.680 for something you to challenge myself with, but also to connect. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.679 And so I've been playing golf right around ten years, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.560 and I should probably say at this point that Fred 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.360 will be the first U s J president who has 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.080 played on a national basketball team. I feel quite secure 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.920 in saying that. And although there have been tall U 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.760 s J presidents before Sandy Tatum, I'm six one, he 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:58.760 towered over me. Um Bill Campbell in his late eighties 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.720 towered over me. Uh, but Fred really towers or me? Fred? 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:04.800 What are you about? Six five or six six? Yeah, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.320 I'm right right around six six and a quarter. You know, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.760 I feel like I'm shrinking every day given all these responsibilities. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.200 But yeah, I think, by the way, Walter Driver is 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:20.160 pretty tall too. So you know, you know who's hold 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.719 between you and Walter. I think I've got them just 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.120 by a submission. So now, Walter is an Atlanta guy 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.080 and Fred, you're an Atlantic guy. In a manner speaking, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:34.240 you're Behamon. You moved to Atlanta, um with with Beck 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.039 the company that you worked for now and uh, and 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.160 you were playing a lot of basketball in Atlanta as 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.800 a as a young father. And then tell us how 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.960 you got into golf when you moved to Dallas. Yeah. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.960 You know, what's what's interesting was in Atlanta I had 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.279 a very you know, um, you know, sort of defying 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.080 group of friends mostly in the real estate business. We 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.520 played a lot of pickup basketball. We had this wonderful 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.880 club sports club that we all played at. And one 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:02.520 of things I credit with my golf life is moving 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:07.080 from Atlanta to Dallas to assume new, you know, business responsibilities. 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.720 It really left me open for new groups and new friendships. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:12.800 My family and I we wanted a club, you know, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.839 really for privacy, an intimacy, to be able to you know, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.560 connect with folks since we were sort of a replant 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.760 back to Dallas, and I joined Northwood Club, which was 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.080 actually the host of the nineteen u s Open. Great 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.320 group of people. Um. We connected immediately with a lot 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.560 of good friends there, But I was not really golfing 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:32.880 at the time, and I recognized, as much as I 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.920 love the nineteenth old that the guys were actually having 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:37.160 much more fun out on the golf course, and it 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.560 got me really curious about golf and so, um, you know, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.400 I credit all my friends at Northwood for really attracting 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.160 me into the game, for encouraging me to play. Um, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.800 even when I was sort of brand new and really 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.760 really uh you know, sort of not up to playing 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.719 at that caliber. They always made room for me. And 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:56.520 that's the thing I think we love about golf. It's 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.599 you know, at our core, you know, you know, golf 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.800 is very inclusive game. And I hope, you know, I 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.320 hope as we keep building and all the work we're 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.000 doing in the U. S g as well as all 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.520 the other leaders in golf, that we keep demonstrating the 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:14.320 inclusive nature of golf and the availability um now more 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.800 than ever. Well, Fred, that's well said, and that's that's 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.520 one of the reasons I'm so excited to get to 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.440 know you and to write about you and introduce you 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:27.360 to UH to a broader golf audience. UM. And I'm 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.120 going to introduce the subject here that I know is 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.600 dear to you. Here you are having only taken up 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.080 golf nine years ago. Now, of course this is exceptional, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.240 and now you're gonna become the next president of the U. S. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.720 G A. But what I'd love to hear you talk 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.320 about is the fact that this game seems like it's 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.920 intimidating to start in and and maybe it is. And 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.400 I'm wondering to what degree is it part of your 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.200 agenda to make golf more welcoming to more people, And 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.880 how can you actually do that. Yeah, Well, look, golf 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.040 has been great to me. I mean in one way. 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.680 You know, for me, it's it's very humbling to have 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.480 the opportunity to serve and to give back to the game, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.880 because it really has given me a life, you know, 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.280 a quality of life that you know, I frankly didn't 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.440 know existed. And from the outside, golf is very intimidating, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.680 I would tell you, you you know, particularly as an African 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.040 American man, you know, I didn't see a lot of 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.600 my golf you know, a lot of myself in the 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.520 elite golf environments. And you know, I think, um, in reality, 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.560 what seems so intimidating from the outside was so welcoming inside. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.599 And I think making that first step is probably the 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.800 challenge many people haven't, particularly in the green grass world 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.559 of golf. Uh, to to get into an environment. I 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:42.920 like to joke, golf is like our own religion. You know, 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.360 We've got we've got our own Bible. You know, we've 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.679 got our own sort of dress. You know, we've got 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.800 our own language and all those things, particularly for people 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.000 who have not grown up around the game. Over the 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.480 means to play the game, it's it's entirely intimidating from 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.040 the outside um and yet I have found the experience 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.160 to be the exact opposite on the inside. Some of 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.920 my best friends in life are my golf buddies. I've 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.679 got great mentors in the game of golf, which is 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.959 how I got to this spot. And so for for us, 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:13.800 all of these people who have come to the game 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.200 during COVID, we need to do that all that we 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.320 can to let them know that there is room for 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.880 this game and for them in this game, and that 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.280 they are absolutely welcomed. And I love the notion of 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.280 you know, top Golf and some of these you know 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.200 sort of what I call virtual golf environments that are 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.240 allowing people to experiment with the game, to be introduced 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.160 to the game in a less formally intimidating environment. And 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.160 I think those of us in the more structured game 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.640 of golf need to make sure that we fling the 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.120 doors wide open, so all of these folks who have 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.800 showed up in the last two years during COVID, that 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:51.240 have experimented with the game know that there's absolutely room 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.520 in this game for them, and so that you know, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.040 that's something I think we can have a lot of 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.120 fun with Fred. What would you like to see the 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.480 U s g A do under your leaders to make 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.160 golf more inviting to more people. Yeah, look, I think 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.560 you know, today now more than ever, people are looking 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.760 and wondering whether we actually want them in the game. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:13.880 And I think the U. S g A we have 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.400 to continue to reach our arms out. I would like 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.760 to see us invest more deeply in youth play at 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.360 both the elite level and the recreational level. I think 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.880 we've got to make bigger investments in accessibility, you know, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.880 investing in um you know, sort of maybe refurbishing courses, 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.560 Youth on courses, a program I love that actually allows 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.720 young people to actually play golf for very low fee. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.040 We've got to find the programs that are growing the game, 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.920 kind of like we have done with drive Chip and 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.280 put along with with our other partners, and we've got 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.760 to invest more deeply in these games. But we also 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.280 have to make golf less intimidating. You know. I would 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.079 like to see us have more programs to explain the game, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.200 more opportunities for folks and you know, underserved community used 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.079 to interact with the game to introduce it as a curriculum. 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.320 Perhaps in schools um to triple down on the first team. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.959 So I think there's a it's there's not one magic 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.840 button here to be pressed. But look, Michael, we know 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.760 one thing that there's not an interest problem in the 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.960 game of golf. There's an accessibility problem. And that accessibility 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.920 is directly related to the cost. So we need to, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.200 you know, sort of not only give our time, but 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:25.800 we need to figure out how to give more of 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.280 our treasure to reduce the barriers to entry and to 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.280 allow more people in. And I'm proud of the work 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.920 we're already doing, but I hope under you know, so 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.319 of the next three years, as we have our new 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.600 CEO Mike Juan and a really a new capable team 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.880 on the management team, that we spend more time, more 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:49.480 dollars actually opening that accessibility out. Very good, Fred, The 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.920 the U s Open is being played this week. You've 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.880 been to the country club. What what do you expect 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.560 we'll see this week at the country club? Well, I 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.400 think you should expect a classic US Open, you know, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:05.080 sort of very now fair fairways that are firm and fast, Uh, 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.240 you know, greens that are challenging. Um rough that is 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.280 think um, you know, we we we want to identify 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.199 the best as Sandy Tatums, they to identify the best 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.640 players in the game, and we want to make sure 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.840 that we have an attractive environment for our fans. And 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.040 so I'm very excited. You know, in many ways, Um 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.079 this uh you know, Brookline really is, you know, a 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.040 trampoline for American golf. You know, Francis women winning winning 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.439 the US Open there um is a story we love 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.720 to tell. Obviously he would later go on to become 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:38.880 a key figure in the U. S g A. But 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.719 as a twenty year old winning the US Open as 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:46.160 a person of regular means who caddied at Brookline to 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.240 introduce golf to more regular Americans, to let them know 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.240 that it was a game for them, Like Wow, what 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.160 a gift, you know. And you know, we like to 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.320 say the U. S g A. You can't buy history, 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.240 you can only earn it. And given where we are 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.720 right now, this inflection point with more regular people coming 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.360 into the game, you know, we think it's wonderful symmetry. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.880 And so we're so excited about Brookline. We're excited about 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.520 next week's US Open, and uh, you know, we hope, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.680 we hope we will again identify the best player in 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.600 the game. We think that's what special about a US Open. Fred. 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.599 You you mean you know so much golf history and 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.920 you've picked up so much in such a short amount 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:25.800 of time. You may know this good bit, but you 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.120 may not. But I'll I'll share just for any of 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.760 our listeners who haven't. So the nine US Open was 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.120 at Wingfoot the previous year, Um, Johnny Millard shot a 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.360 sixty three in the closing round at UH at Oakmont 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:41.480 and all of golf and this is just when I 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.520 was getting into golf, and all of golf was like, Oh, 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.679 they're going to kill the guys this week, and they did. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.840 Wingfot was it was was a monster and UH and 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.160 Sandy Tatum was then your job right now, Fred, tell 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.199 me the formal name of your job right now, Chairman 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.800 of Competitions Committee. Well, yeah, I'm the chairman of the 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.640 U s g A Championships many right now. Yeah, So 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.560 I think that's what Tatum's job was then, prior to 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.040 become president and UH. And in Tatum's court at the time, 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.240 what Tatum's Sandy Tatum's quote at the at the time was, 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.760 we're not trying to embarrass the best golfers in the world. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.440 We're trying to identify them, and uh it's lived on. Uh. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.640 Ever since Fred you were talking about Francis we met before. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.080 Have you ever seen that photograph of we met in 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.680 Eddie Lowry his ten year old caddy together. Um, how 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.640 about the cocky strut of that ten year old Eddie 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.440 Lowry with that little tie and that little um pork 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.320 pie hat that he's wearing. Yeah, and he'd going to 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.440 be a fantastic player himself, right, I mean, I think 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.280 that's the great part of this this game. You know, 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:49.480 we've had traditions, generation after generation of Americans of regular 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.320 means being integrated into the game. Now more than ever, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.080 we want to see all Americans have access to this game. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.120 And so I love to go back to the Francis 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.960 we met us open because you know that, to me 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.240 is a story that all Americans and by the way, 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.160 it reflects the beauty of America. Right, That's why we 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:12.000 enjoy being American. That there is something aspirational about being American. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.160 And I always say in the game of golf, like 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.000 for me, it's not about dumbing this game down. Uh. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.680 For for for regular people, it's about giving them something 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.080 to aspire to, and for me, that's what golf has been. Truly, 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.880 it's been aspirational and it's been inspirational, and hopefully our 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.480 championships that's what we're doing. We're inspiring people to join 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.400 with us in this culture and this beautiful game of golf. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.120 You know, that's a very interesting comment, Fred, and I 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:41.920 read a lot into it when you say that that 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.360 golf is aspirational. Um, you and I love golf, and 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.560 we like and we know it can improve lives. It's 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.720 improved your life, it's improved my life. But it's not 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.520 for everybody. And if you dumb golf down too much 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.160 by trying to make it accessible to everybody or interesting 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.480 to everybody, actually can lose the thing that makes golf 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.360 special in the first place. It's a slow, contemplative, difficult 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.800 game like bridges and and and and other activities. Um, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.840 do you think it's important that golf continue to embrace 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:19.800 those basic DNA facts about the game. I absolutely believe 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.760 it is fundamental. I mean, you know, as a young 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.120 kid growing up in a tough environment, I always went 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.160 to church and I looked at, you know, the folks 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.120 in business that was successful. I wanted to understand, you know, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.800 how they were achieving their success. I looked at my 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:39.160 parents and how hard they work. Everything in life worth having, Michael, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.640 is worth working hard for. To have a good golf game, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.160 you have to work hard at it. There's a symmetry 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.720 in life. You know, a composition, your character. How does 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.320 one actually practice developing character? You know? I think you 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.240 know highly accomplished people love golf because it is something 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.560 that is difficult to conquer, that may it may be unconquerable. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.720 These are traits that are wonderful for young people to learn, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.040 how to interact with adults, to learn what character and 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.399 integrity actually looks like up close. You call the balls 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.439 and strikes on yourself in the game. You play the 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.080 ball as it lies, just like you play the hand 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.480 that you have been given in life. So I think 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.760 there are fundamental things about this game that, when we 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.480 embrace them, actually not only improves our golf game, but 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.359 improves our lives. And we should make sure that we 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.840 keep telling that story so that we are not forced 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.280 to dump ourselves down. I believe etiquette is an important 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.560 part of golf. I love taking my sixteen year old 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.080 to the course, and I don't want her to behave 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.919 you know, like she's at a you know, jungle gym. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.199 I want her to learn how to conduct herself in 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:51.159 a manner that is dignified and elegant and controlled, because 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.160 those are also characteristics that will be helpful later in life. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.680 And so and that's not saying that we shouldn't be welcoming, 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.760 but somehow we've got to be yes and people. Yes, 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.720 we want to be welcoming, and we want to explain 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.600 people all of these values and virtues that we find 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.480 so there and they're in the game. Well, Fred, amen 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:17.199 to all of that. But what a guy shows up. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.440 He's got you know, a sleeve of tattoos, he's got 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.600 his shirt tails out. Uh, you know, he's not the 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.640 characteristic golfer that we think that that we think of 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.359 when we think about club golf. Um, should golf be 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.960 welcoming to that person? Or should we expect that person 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.600 to conform to standards? And Morey's of a different period. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.640 What what's what's you're feeling about that? Well? I think 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.680 we've gotta have environments for both. Right, We've got to 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.240 have environments for ungolfed people to welcome them in, right, 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.960 Because before before you start sermonizing to people, they have 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.919 to know that you actually are interested in them, not 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.359 just trying to be interesting to them. They got to 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:54.960 know that you want them there. So I think there 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.800 needs to be environments that are completely casual where people 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.800 can have fun with the game. You know, at my 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.080 home course, Trinity Force, we have this little short course 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.520 where you can go over and drive scooters and have 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.000 a few drinks and really listen to your music and 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.439 have a good time. And and that's a way for 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.760 us to you know, actually attract people into the culture 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.840 of the game and the club. And then there are 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.560 gonna be formal, uh, you know, environments where golf is 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:22.840 more structured. So I think we have to have both. 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.520 But absolutely the young man who's untucked and has a 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.840 very casual disposition, we need to find ways to attract 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.320 and to connect. And then once we connect and we 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.560 build these relationships, we need to then use the relationships 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.320 to explain why one ought to go on the journey 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.920 of formality. Uh. There is, uh, you know, a role 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.439 for that in your life. And I have just found, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.399 you know, with my work with young people, that golf 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.960 has given me this wonderful gift to explain to young men, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.439 particularly young men of color, why it's important to have 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.480 good decorum, why it's important to be properly groomed, why 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.760 you want your container to match your character so that 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.080 people are not judging you harshly from the outside based 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.280 on our parents. And so I think we can use 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.360 this gift to kind of continue to have the kind 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.720 of relationships across our communities that we want so that 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:17.959 we can lean into each other. And Michael, as you know, 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.680 like we're not going to have the country we want 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.760 until we're all in with each other. That's what I 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.800 love about golf. It gives you this wonderful platform, this 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.400 wonderful framework where people can spend time with each other, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.920 and you know, people that get to know each other 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.920 can learn to trust each other, and people that trust 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.200 each other can do well together. And certainly for me, 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.199 that's being a wonderful, you know, tool in life for me, 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.320 both with my mentors, people who I am learning from, 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.880 and then also finding time with young men and young 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.760 women that I actually want to be mentors too. And 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.960 so you know, I feel like no one should be 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.920 excluded based on how they look. But that doesn't mean 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.280 that we sort of dumb down and leave it right there. 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.679 You know, what a gift we all have to share 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.760 what has been successful for us, and what a gift 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.120 we have to have this proximity so that we can 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.560