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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Andrew the try Force Howard. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you.

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Speaker 2: You are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want.

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Speaker 4: You to know. Buddy, friends and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realist,

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Speaker 4: We're finally doing it. It's the tariffs episode up and

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Speaker 4: up until a few months ago. It's fair to say

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Speaker 4: no judgment that many of us in the crowd this

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Speaker 4: evening spent years without thinking of tariffs. Unless you're like

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Speaker 4: a business tycoon or you play very specific board games.

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Speaker 5: Why why are you thinking about tariffs? I guess I

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Speaker 5: mainly remember it from really early, like middle school civics classes,

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Speaker 5: the same ones where you kind of learn about, you know,

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Speaker 5: the separation of church and state and checks and balances

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Speaker 5: and all of that good stuff.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're it's highly likely that you learned about this

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Speaker 2: in school. The thing we're going to be talking about

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Speaker 2: today because it was a pretty big deal. Uh, at

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Speaker 2: least a nice little what do we say, guys, some

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Speaker 2: kind of bullet points. You're as you're learning about tariffs,

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Speaker 2: you likely learned about these this specific legislation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Miss Grimspife says, this sentence will be on the

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Speaker 3: test is that as you shoot out for the rest?

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Speaker 3: What was that a real teacher you had?

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Speaker 5: It's illegal for you to ask, Miss Grims did you

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Speaker 5: go to Hogwarts?

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Speaker 3: All right? So I went to a couple of Hogwarts. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But let's be honest, though, you know, I think it's

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Speaker 3: fair to say, you guys, that most of us, at

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Speaker 3: least in the United States, we have had a at

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Speaker 3: best a loose understanding of what a tariff means, how

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Speaker 3: it works, and why the average person should care. But recently,

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Speaker 3: this relatively dusty, dry aspect of what we call the

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Speaker 3: dismal science has skyrocketed back into the zeitgeist. Fans of

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Speaker 3: the new US administrations many many ongoing recent declarations regarding tariffs,

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Speaker 3: They'll say it's great for America. Critics will say that

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Speaker 3: these moves financially could endanger not just the US, but

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Speaker 3: in doing so, endanger the world. Overall, put simply, what's

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Speaker 3: going on here? You know, let's ask ourselves that at

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Speaker 3: the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Well for sure, for sure, and you know, we probably

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Speaker 2: haven't thought about tariffs much, especially people who are around

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Speaker 2: our age or maybe even maybe even our parents' age,

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Speaker 2: haven't really thought about tariffs because a lot of this stuff,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you think about the North American free

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Speaker 2: trade agreements and other major things came into play, but

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Speaker 2: other agreements that came into play where tariffs were largely

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Speaker 2: removed or reduced to increase global trade and you know,

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Speaker 2: connection globally so that so all ships would rise. It

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Speaker 2: is strange to see everybody kind of on the planet

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Speaker 2: moving in the opposite direction.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, I mean, that's right, that's the question protectionism versus globalism.

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Speaker 3: That's the large brush way of putting.

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Speaker 5: And I guess I've always struggled personally with like the

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Speaker 5: difference between like duties and important export taxes and some

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Speaker 5: of the stuff that's already part of the equation, and

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Speaker 5: how tariffs are different, and why it's always talked about

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Speaker 5: as such a negative kind of adversary of thing like

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Speaker 5: slapping tariffs on things. The language around them always kind

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Speaker 5: of feels like fighting words.

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Speaker 3: It's weirdly violent, you know when we see that often

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Speaker 3: in corporate parlance as well. Aka, you guys are crushing it.

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Speaker 3: So what is going on here? I got a side

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Speaker 3: note for us. Are ads on podcasts? Are they like

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Speaker 3: the podcast version of tariffs? Are they levied on the listener?

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Speaker 2: Yes? I think you're right.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, it certainly is a thing that requires

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Speaker 5: you to give some of that precious attention to something

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Speaker 5: else that you maybe weren't necessarily wanting to in order

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Speaker 5: to get the thing that you were wanting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in this specific episode you were You have to sorry,

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Speaker 2: your podcast player is going to do this. You have

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Speaker 2: to listen to forty percent of the next episode as

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Speaker 2: you listen to this one.

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Speaker 3: It's only fair. We're gonna pause for a word from

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Speaker 3: our sponsors, and then let's start at the beginning. Here

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Speaker 3: are the facts, all right? What the Hecker tariffs? The

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Speaker 3: actual definition, the easiest at base definition. A tariff is

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Speaker 3: at heart a tax. It is a tax place by

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Speaker 3: a recipient country upon goods supplied from another country. They

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Speaker 3: go across international borders, They're not taxing the other country.

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Speaker 3: They're taxing the forces that import whatever that good or

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Speaker 3: material may be.

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Speaker 5: Right, and a duty, like I was saying, I'm never

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Speaker 5: gonna not giggle, and they say duty, It is hilarious, hilarious. It's,

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Speaker 5: you know, unquestionably hilarious. It is similar, but it is

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Speaker 5: a fee that is based on what the product is,

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Speaker 5: certain qualities of a product, and you're usually set on

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Speaker 5: a permanent basis by international trade agreements.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like the wto the World Trade Organization. They're always

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Speaker 3: swinging around, swinging elbows around, but this doctoring, if you will, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: to try to maintain or to aspire to maintain some

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Speaker 3: sort of rules of the road. I love that you're

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Speaker 3: pointing out duty because yes, it's a tremendously funny word.

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Speaker 3: But also also a tariff in general is going to

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Speaker 3: be against a specific material, the idea of that metal, steel, aluminum,

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Speaker 3: those are always big ones. Or it will be against

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Speaker 3: the affine levied against importing goods from an origin country.

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Speaker 3: So are too defining factors are where does it come from?

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Speaker 3: And what is it? And the most common type of tariff,

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Speaker 3: at least currently is what's called an import tariff. So

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Speaker 3: you are bringing stuff from outside, we want our vigoroush

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Speaker 3: There are export tariffs, which means you have to pay

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Speaker 3: more if you, as a company bring something away from

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Speaker 3: your origin country. But those are super rare here at

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Speaker 3: least because they're forbidden by the US Constitution.

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Speaker 5: So really quickly, guys, I think this is something that

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Speaker 5: I've been struggling with, and I imagine that maybe some

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Speaker 5: folks out there have as well. Based on an infographic

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Speaker 5: that I just found on dclcore dot com about supply chains,

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Speaker 5: it's a blog about this kind of stuff. A tariff

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Speaker 5: is a type of tax added to imports, and I

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Speaker 5: think the goal of it is maybe what distinguishes it.

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Speaker 5: The idea is that it is a means of controlling

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Speaker 5: how freely a particular type of product or good can

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Speaker 5: be imported into a country. And it's a little more

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Speaker 5: specific and kind of at the whim of the country

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Speaker 5: in question. A duty, on the other hands, the type

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Speaker 5: of tax added to imported products based on these rates

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Speaker 5: established by international trade negotiations.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 3: Nice, that makes sense, okay, And throughout history this is

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Speaker 3: understandable because look at your base beginning game of Civilization

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Speaker 3: right the Fantastic Empire Simulator as a video game. Throughout

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Speaker 3: the span of human history, pretty much every country is

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Speaker 3: limited in one way or another when it comes to

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Speaker 3: making stuff at home. You might not have mission critical

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Speaker 3: resources for your territory and your people. You might have

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Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff that helps otherwise, right, you might

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Speaker 3: have a bunch of fossil fuels for an stints, but

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Speaker 3: you might not have a bunch of potable water or

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Speaker 3: arable land wherein you can or from which you can

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Speaker 3: create food. So you also may not then, as now,

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Speaker 3: have the domestic ability to produce goods and services that

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Speaker 3: your public requires. And let's remember, we want our public

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Speaker 3: to either be happy or frightened, preferably both, because that

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Speaker 3: will promote compliance. Sorry, that sounds evil, but that's how

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Speaker 3: it works.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's a political mechanism no matter how

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Speaker 5: you look at it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This country has an interesting history with tariffs, in

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Speaker 2: the desire to put tariffs on goods from other countries,

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Speaker 2: specifically agricultural products, at least historically, where there's been a

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Speaker 2: lot of desire to prevent other agriculture goods from coming

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Speaker 2: into the country because you know, if you look at

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Speaker 2: the at least the center of the United States, there's

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Speaker 2: so much agriculture going on there, and well we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about the history of the Great Depression and some of

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Speaker 2: the you know, climate problems that affected the United States

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Speaker 2: and our ability to create agriculture products. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: we did an episode on We did an episode right

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Speaker 2: on agriculture and the amount of money the US government

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Speaker 2: pays farmers to grow food and like specific types of food,

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Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff, at least again just historically

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Speaker 2: with the United States, tariffs have to do directly with

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Speaker 2: that same stuff, protecting farmers and those products.

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Speaker 3: So as a result of the abundance of some riches

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Speaker 3: and the dearth of others, every country on the planet

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Speaker 3: has trade agreements with other countries. Yes, even the bad

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Speaker 3: guys and the pariah states like and the DPRK, they

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Speaker 3: have intense trade agreements at this point in history, as

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Speaker 3: we record this evening, countries have to trade to exist

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Speaker 3: as a modern state. There is no way around this.

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Speaker 3: This is not arguable, it is negotiable. But outside of

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Speaker 3: North Sentinel Island, everyone is playing this game. And the

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Speaker 3: bag of badgers here is to that earlier point about

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Speaker 3: the World Trade Organization. International trade agreements can be super dirty.

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Speaker 3: The politicians and the you know, the kingmakers and so on.

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Speaker 3: They're selling a shiny often something packaged as an ideology

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Speaker 3: to their local population. But then they're going back and

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Speaker 3: trying to create the weirdest covenants. You could imagine. There

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Speaker 3: are no good guys in this sphere, you know. Imagine

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Speaker 3: like in your own life, have you ever signed one

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Speaker 3: of those rent to own griffs or a gym membership

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Speaker 3: that made it very difficult for you to get out

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Speaker 3: of the membership? Have you signed an unfair NDA that

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Speaker 3: That's kind of how trade agreements go. They're often in balance.

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Speaker 3: Everyone wants an edge, and they push hard to leverage

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Speaker 3: that edge, not always to the benefit of their greater populace,

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Speaker 3: often honestly for the profit motos of powerful demographics, you know,

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Speaker 3: certain trade organizations, lobbyists, tycoons, business owners, politicians right.

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Speaker 5: Well, and a lot of the rhetoric right now around

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Speaker 5: a potentially looming trade war with the United States and

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Speaker 5: you know, multiple other countries, is this notion that we

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Speaker 5: as the United States, have been ripped off for too

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Speaker 5: long by Mexico, by Canada because of you know, the

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Speaker 5: amount that they're taxing us for imported goods that we

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Speaker 5: rely on. And it is just that, right, it's rhetoric,

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Speaker 5: and it's not always verifiably true the way that it's

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Speaker 5: put forth.

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Speaker 3: Let me put let me put a further piece on

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Speaker 3: the board here. Some very wholesome things can indeed have

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Speaker 3: damaging effects, even with the best of intentions. For instance,

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Speaker 3: we haven't done an episode on this, but you'll see

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Speaker 3: a lot of clothing drives in Western Europe or in

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Speaker 3: the US in particular, and the idea is that, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, I've got a good jacket. I don't wear

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Speaker 3: it anymore. I want someone who can't afford this jacket

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Speaker 3: to have it. So now I'm donating a thing. But

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Speaker 3: then when it reaches the end user, those purportedly charitable

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Speaker 3: donations just get resold. What I'm saying is the game

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Speaker 3: is dirtier than people imagine interesting, so trade agreements are necessary.

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Speaker 3: They can often be unfair, and when a given nation

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Speaker 3: state five any agreement disadvantageous, they have this toolkit, like

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Speaker 3: a Batman utility belt, of a bunch of entirely legal

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Speaker 3: moves that they can deploy. And tariffs exist for two reasons. Primarily, first,

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Speaker 3: protected domestic industry. Like we're saying earlier, a great example

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Speaker 3: of this would be the cartoonish tariffs that modern day

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Speaker 3: Japan imposes on all rice imported from abroad. It's something

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Speaker 3: like four hundred percent. If you import rice from another country,

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Speaker 3: you pay, you, the importer, pay four hundred percent to

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Speaker 3: the government of Japan.

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Speaker 5: Well, and if I'm not mistaken, during the first Trump administration,

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Speaker 5: he imposed a pretty steep tariff on the import of

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Speaker 5: steel and aluminum. And when that happened, it did seem

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Speaker 5: to promote more domestic reduction of those materials. But then

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Speaker 5: there was a byproduct because of the hikes in prices

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Speaker 5: that took place, you know, under that new situation, and

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Speaker 5: therefore it almost was like a zero sum game kind

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Speaker 5: of right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the price the price discrepancy was egregious in that point.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're talking about protectionism, which sometimes can sound

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Speaker 3: like a bad word like globalism. The thing is, for

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Speaker 3: our case of Japan, without those heavy tariffs on competing

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Speaker 3: rival producers, Japan's domestic rice cultivation would collapse almost overnight,

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Speaker 3: right within a decade or so.

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Speaker 2: So let's just really game that out. Japan makes a

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Speaker 2: lot of rice and it costs a certain amount of money.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, per I don't know what it would be

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Speaker 2: per bag of rice right that you would sell. You

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Speaker 2: can get much cheaper rice theoretically from neighboring countries, let's

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Speaker 2: say China, just a little way from Japan, because it's

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Speaker 2: produced so cheaply compared to the rice that's being produced

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Speaker 2: in Japan. But if that happens, as you're saying, Ben,

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Speaker 2: the folks making rice in Japan don't have a job anymore.

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Speaker 2: They can't make rice because you can get it so

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Speaker 2: cheaply from China. But not if you put in this,

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Speaker 2: as you said, protectionist thing of a tariff against the

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Speaker 2: Chinese rice. So now it costs even more or the same,

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Speaker 2: probably a little more to get the rice from China

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Speaker 2: than it would to just you know, go down the

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Speaker 2: street and get it from a local rice producer.

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Speaker 3: It is price fixing.

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Speaker 5: And I think that holds true of the aluminum and

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Speaker 5: steel example too, where even though more aluminium and steel

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Speaker 5: was being produced domestically, it was more expensive, and therefore

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Speaker 5: that cost was passed on to consumers, which is always

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Speaker 5: what happens. And I'd love to talk more about that

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Speaker 5: when the time comes, But it ended up being basely

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Speaker 5: zeroed out any any positive growth that was you know,

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Speaker 5: could have resulted.

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Speaker 3: From that negative v net positive. So first, the first

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Speaker 3: reason a tariff exists is to protect a domestic industry.

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Speaker 3: The second is to make revenue. A revenue focused tariff

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Speaker 3: imposes costs on exporters and then takes that little vigorous,

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Speaker 3: that little percentage, and generally is going to add it

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Speaker 3: to a murky i'll say it, a murky petty cash

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Speaker 3: or general fun thing for a given receiving government. Over

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Speaker 3: the long term, if everything works out this protectionism approach,

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Speaker 3: it will shore up domestic interests. That's part of why

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Speaker 3: you know, an old school traditional cheesemaker in Italy can

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Speaker 3: still make a living with parmesan. Right, We've got all

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Speaker 3: sorts of stuff in the European Union and that says here,

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Speaker 3: this is what makes parmesan real and this is sort

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Speaker 3: of the baseline price at which this stuff exists. But

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Speaker 3: generally speaking, tariffs do not hold an immediate direct benefit

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Speaker 3: for your Jane and John Blue jeans, wherever they may exist.

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Speaker 5: Because of that old expression we passed the savings on

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Speaker 5: to you. Well, the opposite is also true, if not

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Speaker 5: more true.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because imposing a tariff is a it's a move,

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Speaker 2: it's a chess move in a It's not a trade

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Speaker 2: war necessarily, right, but a tariff is making a play

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Speaker 2: and everybody else then responds to that.

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Speaker 3: Really, yeah, the feedback loops are real. You know. First,

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Speaker 3: why would you make a tariff right knowing it's not

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Speaker 3: immediately benefiting the overall public. First, it is a response.

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Speaker 3: A tariff is often response to some earlier similar move

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Speaker 3: somewhere across the board. It's a tag back on an

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Speaker 3: unfair trade agreement right. Second, it's part of this carrot

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Speaker 3: versus stick exercise to push compliance toward arrival. Third, most importantly,

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Speaker 3: and I have to say this, I know tariffs are

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Speaker 3: very unfair historically, and we'll see how they went wrong

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Speaker 3: in the US several times. But tariffs can maintain sovereignty

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Speaker 3: and independence, like in the case of Japan, in the

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Speaker 3: case of Western Europe as well. There is a hard

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Speaker 3: limit on arable land, so you could do you have

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Speaker 3: two things you always want to produce with self sufficienc right,

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Speaker 3: two things you always want to have within your border,

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Speaker 3: ideally food and potable or drinkable water. So Japan or

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Speaker 3: the EU is often fighting to raise the cost for

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Speaker 3: other countries' imports so that they never become dependent upon

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Speaker 3: those imports. Right like the rice example. What if what

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Speaker 3: if things go south between China or other actors in

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Speaker 3: the East Asian sphere, Right like, now Japan doesn't have

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Speaker 3: rice because they allowed the country to become dependent upon imports.

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Speaker 5: Ben wasn't the Boston Tea Party, you know, that inciting

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Speaker 5: event that largely led to the American Revolution, you know,

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Speaker 5: between the colonies and Great Britain a result of tariffs

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Speaker 5: that were slapped on tea.

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Speaker 3: Well, also colonialism for sure.

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Speaker 5: But I mean that just goes to show that something

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Speaker 5: that could be maybe considered a trade war, something that

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Speaker 5: you know, doesn't seem to be an outright act of

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Speaker 5: hot war, can certainly lead to that, you know, given

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Speaker 5: tenuous situations and relationships between countries.

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Speaker 3: For sure. Man, And if you're playing d game, then

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Speaker 3: you're incentivized on a sith lord level because at the

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Speaker 3: same time you maintain your sovereignty and your independence, you

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Speaker 3: are prioritizing at the at the top levels, right you are.

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Speaker 3: You are prioritizing the idea of making other countries or

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Speaker 3: entities dependent upon you. Right this, this idea of chip

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Speaker 3: import export is one of the things that has preserved

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Speaker 3: the current political situation in Taiwan. You want the enemy

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Speaker 3: to need you, you shall never need the enemy. I

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Speaker 3: know that sounds like a line from Rudyard Kipling, but

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Speaker 3: it's true though.

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Speaker 5: That is the fine line between you know, a copasetic

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Speaker 5: more or less relationship between countries that maybe don't particularly

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Speaker 5: agree ideologically, and something much more serious and sinister.

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Speaker 3: M Yeah, cons and pro real quick. The big con

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Speaker 3: for tariffs wherever you go, whenever you've been there, tariffs

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Speaker 3: can suck for the general population. Think of the average

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Speaker 3: cost of groceries. You know, if you've been abroad recently,

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Speaker 3: or if you've been reading the US news, you know

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Speaker 3: a single egg in the US may cost way more

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Speaker 3: than an egg and say Nicaragua or different parts of

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Speaker 3: the world, just as petrol in the United Kingdom is

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Speaker 3: going to cost way more than the same amount of

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Speaker 3: gas in tarad It's just a matter of how these

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Speaker 3: things are negotiated. The big pro of course, is independence.

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Speaker 3: Just like in the case of Japan, if the EU

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Speaker 3: didn't have its specific regime of tariffs, then the agricultural

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Speaker 3: industry and a lot of those places will collapse. And

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Speaker 3: that's why we're foreshadowing the role of agriculture here. Tariffs

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Speaker 3: are essentially as weird as it's right now. Tariffs are

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Speaker 3: essentially a big government argument, right that the state shall

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Speaker 3: interfere with an otherwise free global market. And it's odd then,

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Speaker 3: and maybe a little bit confusing to see so many people,

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Speaker 3: for one reason or another, supporting tariffs, even when those

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Speaker 3: run counter to the rest of their personal ideologies. So

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Speaker 3: in the modern day, tariffs by hook or by crook,

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Speaker 3: protectionism or revenue, they're widespread. They're widespread, and you hear

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Speaker 3: a lot of noise or we have heard a lot

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Speaker 3: of noise about tariffs in the United States right now.

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Speaker 3: We're actually going to check live before we end the episode,

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Speaker 3: because the news keeps going back and forth. This is

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Speaker 3: not a new thing. The new thing is overall kind

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Speaker 3: of the new thing for the past few centuries has

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Speaker 3: been having a problem with tariffs. This is a continuing conversation.

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Speaker 3: There is a pattern at play, and that pattern exists

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Speaker 3: because this is not the first time Uncle Sam has

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Speaker 3: played this game. I'm doing a cadence toward an ad break.

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Speaker 5: So let's do that thing, and then we write back

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Speaker 5: with a deeper dive into tariffs and what's going on

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Speaker 5: in the world with them?

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Speaker 6: Right now, here's where it gets crazy, all right, true story, folks,

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Speaker 6: fellow conspiracy realist friends and neighbors.

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Speaker 3: The United States, like pretty much every country before it

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Speaker 3: and since, has always been kind of in a situationship,

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Speaker 3: we could call it, with tariffs. The first tariff law

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Speaker 3: in this country is passed in seventeen point eighty nine,

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Speaker 3: like almost immediately after the US became a thing in

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Speaker 3: the beginning, and for the vast until like the eighteen

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Speaker 3: hundreds or so, for a while, tariffs were the primary

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Speaker 3: source of revenue for this country. That was where he

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Speaker 3: made eighty forget eighty ninety percent of federal revenue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for the government itself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for the government itself. And right now, obvious question

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Speaker 3: is at the case in twenty twenty five, not really,

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Speaker 3: Most government funding now comes from income and payroll tax, right,

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Speaker 3: that's pretty accurate. It's a bubber because April's on the way.

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Speaker 3: But why what changed? It turns out there are a

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Speaker 3: few historical incidents that put a kind of sour pallor

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Speaker 3: a bad vibe on the idea of too many tariffs,

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Speaker 3: and our story in that regard, our historical precedent begins

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Speaker 3: in the early nine eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 2: Yes, with the Fortney McCumber Act in nineteen twenty two.

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Speaker 2: This is this is this is only important. It's a

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Speaker 2: bullet point for the other act we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 2: But this was an act that raised tariffs on imports

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Speaker 2: into the United States up to an average of about

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Speaker 2: forty percent. So anything coming into the US because of

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Speaker 2: this thing in nineteen twenty two, you have to pay

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Speaker 2: an extra forty percent on it.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, this is the big idea of Joseph W.

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Speaker 3: Forty and Senator Porter J. McCumber.

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Speaker 2: There was a little bit of retaliation that occurred because

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Speaker 2: of that. But for six years until the Great Depression started,

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Speaker 2: it was great.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they didn't know the Great Depression was on

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Speaker 3: the way, for sure, You're right, it was and it

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Speaker 3: was you know, if we exercise empathy for the context

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Speaker 3: of their time, they were post World War or what.

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Speaker 3: So they were trying to or their teams who were

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Speaker 3: doing the real work. We're trying to figure out how

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00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: do we calm these crazy turbulent economic waters post the

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Speaker 3: biggest war that we know about. And Joe, our buddies,

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Speaker 3: Joe importer. They said, you know, like you were saying earlier,

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Speaker 3: if we raise a tax on imported goods, will protect

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Speaker 3: US businesses and factories and farms. You know, mom and

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Speaker 3: pop blue jeans will be just fine. History, as you

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Speaker 3: pointed out, proved those assumptions incorrect. It was like nineteen

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Speaker 3: twenty seven, five years after the initial rollout, all the

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Speaker 3: other trading partners of the US, like your big frenemies, France, Spain, Germany, Italy,

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Speaker 3: they all retaliated. There was a feedback loop created. Spain

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Speaker 3: went the hardest on the paint. Their numbers were like

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Speaker 3: a forty two percent tax on literally anything from the

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Speaker 3: United States, it did not matter what that product was.

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Speaker 3: France super pissed off Henry Ford because they said, if

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Speaker 3: you want an American automobile, guess what you're gonna pay

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Speaker 3: for it? Twice yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, automobiles have always been not the biggest or one,

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Speaker 2: not even the top five of the things exupported by

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Speaker 2: the United States. But automobiles have been a big deal.

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Speaker 3: Yes, very much so, and remain that way. We're talking

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Speaker 3: in a different country about how we hoped to get

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to see some really kick ass Chinese automobiles

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Speaker 3: that are not allowed to be sold in the United States.

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Speaker 5: It's interesting too, especially nowadays, that automobiles, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 5: back in the day, they already represented such a conglomeration

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Speaker 5: of various materials that in and of themselves were subject

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Speaker 5: to these kinds of tariffs and taxes like ste and

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00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: aluminum like we were talking about. But now all of

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Speaker 5: the chips and electronics inside of them, I mean talk

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Speaker 5: about like paying for things twice, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and those are in all cases you mentioned

435
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: there and old These are highly sophisticated pieces of work. Right.

436
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: This is not the same as a handful of sand.

437
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: So it's very carefully curated process. Haand so with our

438
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: buddies earlier exploration Fordney McCumber their tariff policy, we also

439
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: see some new characters in the chat. It's about let's say,

440
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: late nineteen twenties, nineteen twenty nine for an act that

441
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: goes in force on June seventeenth, nineteen thirty. They're these

442
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: two members of the US Congress who say, look at

443
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: all this bad stuff that's happening regarding tariffs. You know what,

444
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 3: we'll fix it more terriffs. Right, So they say let's

445
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: double down. Let's raise these tariffs on more goods. This

446
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: will help protect us in these global economic wins. We're

447
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: talking specifically about Senator Reed Smoot of Utah and a

448
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: Congressman from Oregon named Willis Hawley. At the time, they're

449
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 3: both big deals. Smoot is in charge of the Senate

450
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 3: Finance Committee. They are still It's a position that is coveted,

451
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: highly contested, and controversial. Today Hawley as a representative, he

452
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: heads up what's called the House of Reps Ways and

453
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: Means Committee, which is a powerhouse, one stop shop for

454
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: a lot of economic legislation.

455
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 5: You hear about down in the news all the time,

456
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 5: you know, surrounding these types of conversations like I don't

457
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 5: know the name of a lot of committees, but the

458
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 5: Ways and Means Committee is one that is more or

459
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 5: less a household name.

460
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: Wouldn't you guys say, I love it. I love the

461
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: plot twist, you know, the idea that someone had a

462
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: means committee, or the idea that someone had a ways

463
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: committee and then somebody dropped in and said, and mean,

464
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 3: we have ways.

465
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 5: To make you talk, mister Bonds, and the means.

466
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: To execute on those ways.

467
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 5: I don't understand the distinction between ways and means. By

468
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 5: the way, it seems a little redundant, which I know

469
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 5: what you're saying, Ben.

470
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: All right, So together these guys Smoot and Holly, they

471
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: create the Smoot Holly Tariff Act. It is the last

472
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: piece of legislation up until recent times to set concrete

473
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: tariff rates on imports from abroad. And you might you

474
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: might recognize this if I could play a quick clip

475
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: from the eighties, I think there's a reference we might

476
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: all enjoy or at least recognize. Is that okayick? Yeah, yeah, okay,

477
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: here we go.

478
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 7: In nineteen thirty, the Republican controlled House of Representatives, in

479
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 7: an effort to alleviate the effects of the anyone anyone is.

480
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: That ben Stein?

481
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 7: Yeah? Anyone? Anyone? The tariff phil the Holly Smoot Tariff Act,

482
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 7: which anyone ready or lowered, trying to get my money

483
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 7: the federal government.

484
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: All right, we'll stop it.

485
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 5: There was that from Winn Benstein's.

486
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: Money from Faris.

487
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 5: Oh shoot, sorry, I couldn't see the video.

488
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: I just heard the audio.

489
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 5: Remember that that that show he had It was like

490
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 5: a question, Yeah.

491
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: That's why he got the job.

492
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 3: I think very I is that why he got his

493
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 3: political entry as well.

494
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 5: Yeah. Man, he's always struck me, maybe again because of

495
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 5: that scene is so professorial. But did he really have

496
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 5: a background in that stuff or was he just kind

497
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 5: of like, I'm not a professor, I just play one

498
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 5: on TV.

499
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: I mean, Ronald Reagan didn't even play a president before

500
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 3: he got elect Good point, Ben, it's a good point.

501
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 6: Uh.

502
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: He is a lawyer, he is, Yeah, I r oh

503
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 3: okay cool. So he does have so he does have

504
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: a juris doctorate from Yale. I think he's a Yale educator.

505
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: In guys, Let's jump back to uh smooth Holly, which

506
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: is h A W L E y. And every time

507
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: I look at it, I want to say it differently

508
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: and it's not. I know it's not, but my brain

509
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: says something else. But anyway, let's talk about Herbert Hoover

510
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: and as he's running for president to be elected as president, right,

511
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: he is running were part of his campaign says hey,

512
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to increase the tariffs on agricultural

513
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: products from other countries. I'm going to support you farmers.

514
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: He's a Republican, k it, He's uh, this is a

515
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: major not a major reason he got elected. But it's

516
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: one of the big reasons he got elected. I've got

517
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 2: your back, basically, folks in the agricultural industry here within

518
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: the United States. Uh. And then these other folks come

519
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: through and they're like, well, what if we just did

520
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: what you want to do on agricultural products and just

521
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: do it on the whole thing across the board.

522
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm glad you're mentioning this. Yeah, there's a great Uh.

523
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 3: There's a great book by a Dartmouth economics professor named

524
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 3: Doug Irwin.

525
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 7: Uh.

526
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: He also has a great MPR interview regarding exactly what

527
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: you're talking about. You know, Congress sets out to write

528
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 3: this tariff bill that's going to protect farmers and agriculture.

529
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 3: But then as soon as people are talking about the

530
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: money carousel, like you were saying, a ton of other

531
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: industries say, yeah, well hey, way, but you know, we

532
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: make clothing pins, you know, we make all, you know,

533
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: flip flops. Whenever those were in Why can't we get

534
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: some protection for our products too. They're touching the congress

535
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: folks who control the districts of these businesses right or

536
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 3: where these manufacturing interest are based. And all of a sudden,

537
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 3: people start horse trading. I'll vote positively right for your

538
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 3: tariff on clothes and clothing pins or textile mills or whatever.

539
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 3: If you support my tariff on I don't know, cows, cheese,

540
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: case dia, I skip breakfast, something like that. So, all

541
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 3: of a sudden, all told, in a very short span

542
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: of time, Congress ends up raising more than eight hundred tariffs.

543
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: This will affect the American public. This also is great

544
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: largesse for the people making the decisions on the legislative floor.

545
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: So we see this feedback loop, this snowball effect. Everybody

546
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 3: is getting exceptional treatment, which is not how the definition

547
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 3: of exceptional treatment works.

548
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you can see why because so

549
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty eight, that's when Hoover is campaigning right, making

550
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: these promises about just agricultural tariffs. Then the stock market

551
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 2: market crashes in nineteen twenty nine, and everybody, as you're

552
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: talking about man, everybody says, hey, we need help too.

553
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 2: It's not just the farmers. We all need a little

554
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 2: extra something.

555
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like we're the mule lobby, you know what I mean.

556
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: We just smacked down the US camel core. We need

557
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 3: more support for mules. I'm doing references.

558
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 6: I know you are.

559
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 3: Now.

560
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 5: Check out the ridiculous Hisstory episode on the Camel Core

561
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 5: featuring Jonathan Stricklin of Tech Stuff Theme.

562
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 3: Who, by the way, says Hi, Matt. He said, you're

563
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 3: the best part of stuff they don't want you to know.

564
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: And he made sure to make eye contact with me

565
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: and Noel when he said deep uncomfortable eye contact. Didn't

566
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: even blink. It was weird. I think he took some

567
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: vising in advance. I think he rehearsed.

568
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 2: Well, I disagree with him.

569
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 3: All right, Well, it's very kind to say. There were

570
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 3: we have to point this out right. Even then, in

571
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 3: the days of Hoover and Smooth Hawley, there were critics.

572
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,479
Speaker 3: It was a massive group of economists who said this

573
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: is not going to end well, and they wrote an

574
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 3: open letter and they published it in newspapers and they

575
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: signed their names to it. It turns out these boffins

576
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 3: were right. They were wrong about a lot of other stuff,

577
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: but they were correct that this terra feedback loop would

578
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: ultimately be problematic for the people living in the US

579
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 3: at the time and other countries. Like we described, they retaliated,

580
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 3: or you could say they were just looking out for

581
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: their own interest, which is logically what they would be

582
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: expected to do. So this wave of protectionism me firstism

583
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: sweeps the planet right and other countries, even countries that

584
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 3: were at loggerheads and were beefing, they teamed up against

585
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: the United States. They were going, where this Hoover guy

586
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 3: get off? You know what I mean, Let's make our

587
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 3: own little club for trading, and the US can't be

588
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: in it. As a result, there was an economic massacre.

589
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: Disaster doesn't even begin to describe it. Hally and smooth.

590
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 3: They lose their next elections in nineteen thirty two, but

591
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: they're fine, just spoiler alert. They were fine. They got

592
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 3: their bag and they walked out. They had some parachutes,

593
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: perhaps with a golden variety. The consequences of their actions

594
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: linger on for decades, well past the headlines as a

595
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: long term, expensive catastrophe.

596
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:54,479
Speaker 4: Yeah.

597
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: Well, and it's very strange because as economists look back

598
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 2: on that specific act in those tariffs, it is really

599
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: really difficult to separate the effects of those tariffs and

600
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: the effects of the Great Depression overall, at least when

601
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 2: you're looking at global trade across every country and everywhere,

602
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: it's really hard to separate those two things, because the

603
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: Great Depression definitely hit everybody really hard everybody. But then

604
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: this when trying to figure out, well, how much retaliation

605
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: actually affected let's say the GDP, the gross domestic product

606
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: of the United States, and at least for a long time,

607
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: it's been difficult to tell. The Cato Institute, which is

608
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: something we've discussed before, they attempted in twenty twenty one

609
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 2: to look at this and really separate the numbers out

610
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: and figure out, well, how much was a retaliatory tariff

611
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: from another country that was having a tariff imposed on

612
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: it by the United States, how much did that affect

613
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: the United States in turn? And again, like you come

614
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: away after re eating stuff from really smart people who

615
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: are looking at this and they're kind of like, yeah, well,

616
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: it does seem like most people at least raised prices

617
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: for US goods by a little bit, so hurting the

618
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: United States in retaliation a little bit. But it wasn't

619
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: fully retaliation in most instances. It was almost just like

620
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: a knee jerk of reaction. It wasn't like we're gonna

621
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: hurt you country. We're not, at least we're not seeing

622
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 2: that from most countries at that.

623
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 3: Time, right, Yeah, And it's because it happened in such

624
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 3: an abbreviated time window, it's therefore difficult to parse what

625
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: led to what, you know what I mean, like where

626
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: does point A of a spaghetti strand go to point

627
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 3: Z in the bowl of spaghetti?

628
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: And every other country is attempting to bolster themselves up

629
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: a little bit while, you know, while also dealing with

630
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: those tariffs. So it's just as you said, would you

631
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: see what you tell it both bullspigedy of stuff that's happening. Yeah,

632
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 2: that's right, that's.

633
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: Which noodle is the primary? What what is noodle prime

634
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: in the bull of spaghetti?

635
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 5: Or it's like if you're had one of those Asian

636
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 5: dishes where it's like one giant noodle.

637
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: You know, it's all related. Also, when I whenever I

638
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: hear the Cato Institute, I hope I'm not alone in

639
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 3: saying I immediately think of kato'klin. I'm always like, yeah, see, folks,

640
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 3: he did stuff before the OJ than you know what

641
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 3: I mean.

642
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very important institutions. That is not a tired

643
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 5: reference at all, right, hair though, guys, I mean, let's

644
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 5: not forget the glorious main that Kato Kalin.

645
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 3: Possessed and we should only judge people on external appearances

646
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: one hundred percent.

647
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: Just I want to read one quick thing from that

648
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: their findings. It says it says that countries used quotas,

649
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: which I don't really fully understand. But you can only

650
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 2: pull in a certain basically of goods from the United

651
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: States if you're another country. But the other thing that

652
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: a lot of countries did was propose those strategic tariffs,

653
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: which we're going to get into with. You know, some

654
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: countries in the modern day right now, these strategic versions

655
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: of this, but back then it was on things like automobiles.

656
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: So like that's one of the reasons, as you said,

657
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 2: Ford got so angry because other countries then looked at

658
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: some of our most expensive products and just slapped extra

659
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: stuff on.

660
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 3: Those luxury goods. Are one of the first ones to go, Look,

661
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: this doesn't mean we have to we're endeavoring to be fair.

662
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 3: This does not mean all tariffs are automatically bad. We

663
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 3: could argue that it means instead, tariffs are a very

664
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: sensitive economic tool. If you press too hard in one direction,

665
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 3: everything that you have built can snap out a place.

666
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: As a result. You know what I mean because the

667
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 3: other countries in the world. Guess what, The people who

668
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: live there are just as important to themselves as you know,

669
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 3: your king makers are to you. So obviously no one

670
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 3: in the game is gonna say, yeah, that's fine, just

671
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: crap on us a little. You know, we're into that.

672
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: No one's gonna yeah, and that that's what brings us

673
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 3: to the modern day. This is where we're getting to

674
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 3: what some might call a conspiracy. Before we do that,

675
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: I think we have one last ad break and we've

676
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 3: got to get to the controversy here. It's been We've

677
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 3: been getting a lot of letters, a lot of correspondence

678
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 3: about it. So let's see if we can figure it

679
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 3: out together. And we've returned all right, Look, we know

680
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 3: not everybody listening to this show is in the United States,

681
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 3: and regards wardless of where you're listening, thank you for

682
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 3: your time. We, like everybody else, have witnessed this dizzying

683
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 3: back and forth regarding tariffs. The current presidential administration, the

684
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 3: returning Trump administration, has made a lot of headlines. Even

685
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: up until as we're recording this evening, you can see

686
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 3: all these blow by blows of reported proposed tariffs against

687
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: any number of countries. Then those countries say, well, hey,

688
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: you know, beat me your triforce. Well, hey you buddy,

689
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: that's the Canadians. That's what they said.

690
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: There was a specific bill signing that was a retaliation

691
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: set of terroffts against US products, and they were like, oh,

692
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: this is a beautiful law, this is the best laws

693
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: as they're signing it. Sorry, that's just sorry. I guess

694
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,959
Speaker 2: it just reminds you of maybe the way current president.

695
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 3: Talks sometimes, the great US President. Yeah, and then we

696
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 3: see these walkbacks of these crazy pitches from the US.

697
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: It just goes back and forth. And that's part of

698
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 3: why we took our time with this episode.

699
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 5: Eleventh, our walkbacks, which yeah, I was gonna ask you guys.

700
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we talked about this in the

701
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 5: recent listener mail. Is this stuff calculated or is this

702
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 5: just poor planning? Because it sure seems like is all this,

703
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 5: you know, saber rattling. I guess, for lack of a

704
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 5: better term, I think it applies here about we're going

705
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 5: to pose these tariffs on our trading partners that have

706
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 5: always been pretty historically good. Does Mexico and Canada, et cetera.

707
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 5: And then at the last minute when the stock market

708
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 5: kind of takes a hit because as we know, these

709
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 5: tariffs are just going to get passed on to the

710
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 5: end user aka US, the consumer. They're walked back, And

711
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 5: I mean, I've just seen a lot of hay being

712
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 5: made of is this is this intentional market manipulation or

713
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 5: is this just bad planning?

714
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 3: Hey be made. I love the I've got to look

715
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,919
Speaker 3: up the etymology for that one. That's great, I missed

716
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: that one.

717
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

718
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question because you know, supporters will

719
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 3: argue these proposed tariffs or some version thereof, will help

720
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: shore up domestic businesses, and the argument for the supporters

721
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 3: is this ensures a path toward increased economic freedom and independence.

722
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 3: Critics say these tariffs, at least in their current proposed forms,

723
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 3: will not have that result. And part of their argument,

724
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: just to give you where they're coming from, is that

725
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 3: the US is not a new nation. It is a

726
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 3: young nation, but it's not new to the game. We're

727
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 3: not starting from scratch. We're looking at this cartoonishly complicated

728
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 3: financial system that is so deeply entrenched and intertwined with

729
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 3: the economies of so many other countries around the globe.

730
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 3: Also tariffs are huge walk back. Now in the age

731
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 3: of globalism, the US spent decades aggressively get to the

732
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 3: earlier point about NAFTA right aggressively getting companies to move

733
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: production overseas by hook or by crook. And you know,

734
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 3: if you are the lead maker of shoe fee and

735
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 3: you move your production overseas and you can sell shoe

736
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 3: feet for a dollar less, people are going to buy

737
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: the cheaper version. And that means that every other company

738
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: making shoe fee, if they want to stay in the game,

739
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: they have to figure out their own version of that.

740
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: They have to go overseas as well. So a whole

741
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 3: bunch of stuff was incentivized for decades to go overseas

742
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: and just to stay in the game. Even the people

743
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: who wanted their business to stay in the US had

744
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 3: to go overseas in some capacity for at least their

745
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 3: supply chain.

746
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 5: And maybe I'm naive here, but I also just think

747
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 5: it's fascinating how it is just a foregone conclusion that

748
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,439
Speaker 5: the stuff gets passed on to the concer because it's

749
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 5: just the nature of capitalism where it's like, what are

750
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 5: we going to do make a dollar less? Heck, now

751
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 5: you're going to pay a dollar more. There's no benevolence

752
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 5: in business, right, it just doesn't work. Like even if

753
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 5: it could, it just doesn't.

754
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 2: This is a really important point and we've kind of

755
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 2: made it already and we've talked about it before the

756
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: United States doesn't have state run industries the way a

757
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: lot of other countries do, right, So we are talking

758
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: about private industry industry at every point in this at

759
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: least when it comes to stuff that is being made.

760
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: We're manufactured within the US. If you're talking about raw

761
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: goods that are coming in that are being tariffed, I love,

762
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Trojan Rag sorry.

763
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: Brought, but really yes, I like.

764
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 2: You're talking about private industry that is then having to

765
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: decide what to do with that extra cost, right or

766
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: with that yeah sorry man? Or like we're talking about

767
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: steel used as an example, nol whether to buy the steel,

768
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: the cheaper steel from some other place that is no

769
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: longer cheaper and be forced as a private industry to

770
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: buy from let's say, US manufacturers, right, And that's the concept.

771
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: But the whole point of the tariff, if it works

772
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 2: right and people still buy products from the other countries,

773
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 2: the US government that is not directly associated with any

774
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 2: industry gets a profit.

775
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: That's the issue. Yeah, I love that. We're talking about

776
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: the playing field here, right. Sovereign Wealth Fund, for instance,

777
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: subsidizes an airline. We just that. Yeah, I could say

778
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: it because I've made it off.

779
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 5: The plane listener right in I think on a recent

780
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 5: listener mail talking about that Sovereign Wealth Fund and how

781
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 5: in other countries it makes sense because they have state

782
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 5: run industry and they can't turn a profit. But then

783
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 5: since the United States, to your point, Matt, doesn't, the

784
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 5: only way we can turn up profit quote unquote is

785
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 5: by taxing the hell out of stuff and people or.

786
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 3: Squeezing the poor. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, we're

787
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 3: we're walking through, We're crip walking through some pretty obvious logic,

788
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: and it's a shame it got politicized. Anything in a

789
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: supply chain that can be produced by a US company,

790
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 3: if it can be produced at a lower version such

791
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 3: that you can still save money even with cargo, ship

792
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 3: transit or whatever that's going to be where you go.

793
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 3: And as a result, the domestic version of those supply

794
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 3: chains of old, they dwindle the atropy like unused muscles.

795
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 3: So the argument then becomes Look, it is going to

796
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 3: take some time for all these industries to shift back

797
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 3: to some version of a domestic supply chain. It's going

798
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 3: to be easier for some industries than for others, but

799
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,280
Speaker 3: it's still going to take a long amount of time.

800
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 3: It's going to take a lot of elbow grease, a

801
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 3: lot of money and effort to rebuild this stuff from

802
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: the ground up in this complicated financial ecosystem. And in

803
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 3: some cases, hey spoiler, that old supply chain does not exist.

804
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 3: It is extinct.

805
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 2: No, it does feel like it's a series of play

806
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: and this guy's is me throwing spaghetti one giant, But

807
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: it does feel like it's being set up to have

808
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: some kind of state run industries or like something to

809
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: be established in the future. Doesn't it a little bit

810
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: like it's pulling stuff in because right now is the

811
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 2: time when when folks are going to have to think

812
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 2: about creating the steel plants again and creating the large

813
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: manufacturing plants again.

814
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 3: We burn the village to save the thing.

815
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 5: And while we don't have state run industry, think about

816
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 5: all of the government subsidies that so many private industries

817
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 5: get almost to the point where we're participants, almost like

818
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 5: partners in a way, and yet we're not. But it

819
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 5: does seem like with all of the dismantling of certain

820
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 5: government entities that's going on right now, maybe that is

821
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 5: the direction things are going, especially with an administration that

822
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 5: is so pro business. And then again, isn't that also

823
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 5: what they might call socialism to have you know, I mean,

824
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 5: it's it's weird.

825
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 7: Right.

826
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: Say that word. You're not allowed to say that word.

827
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: Nobody guess in this country?

828
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

829
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 5: Though? It seems like a little bit of a weird

830
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 5: gray area, and it's like, is socialism good or is

831
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 5: it bad? And in terms of the ideology of this administration, see,

832
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 5: it seems like it's good when it is as described

833
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 5: in a way that they benefit from, and bad when

834
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 5: it's somehow antithetical to what their goals are.

835
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 3: It's illegal when you do it, it's smart what I do?

836
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like playing tag with children, yes, exactly,

837
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 3: or with drunk college students. Part of the answer to that,

838
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 3: before you explore the history here to the current day,

839
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: part of the answer, I think is found in the

840
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 3: question where does money from tariffs go? You know, like,

841
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 3: wh're Japan, We're taking four hundred percent just off the

842
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 3: top because your rice is in Japanese. The other countries,

843
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 3: the countries making these materials, when it goes to the

844
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: recipient country, they're not paying for it. That's sixty percent

845
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 3: tax you know, are proposed on Chinese goods through various

846
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 3: iterations of the Trump administration. The nation of China is

847
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: not paying that. The people, the businesses in the US

848
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 3: importing stuff from China, they're paying that. And when they

849
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 3: pay that, they typically are going to pass the cost

850
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 3: on to the consumer, unless there's some sort of subsidization program.

851
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 3: But per Congress itself, Congressional Research Service shows us when

852
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 3: an importer like Noel, you have a synths company, okay, right,

853
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 3: and now there's some kind of teriff on materials you

854
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 3: need to make your bespoke synths, and when you pay

855
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 3: that tariff, that money that you are paying goes through

856
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: US customs directly to the US Treasury into something called

857
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 3: a general fund, so it's not assigned to anything specific.

858
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 3: It could go to all sorts of stuff. It could

859
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 3: go to rebuilding bridges, it could go to better education

860
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 3: for children. Maybe you know single payer healthcare or you

861
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 3: know defense. So another question then is if it's general fun.

862
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 3: Oh and I made a bad joke about defense, we'll

863
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: keep it in. But the question becomes, could tariff revenue,

864
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: for example, be used to set up programs that help

865
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 3: recover domestic supply chains. That's you know, that's a little

866
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 3: bit in the weeds. It is important because we know

867
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: that it will take time. It will take time to

868
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: recover those domestic supply chains. And even if you pull

869
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 3: it back, as we're saying at the eleventh hour, there's

870
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 3: still gonna be consequences. Like if the US does a

871
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 3: bunch of tariffs and then has them in place for

872
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 3: even just a year, and they say, all right, this

873
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 3: doesn't work. You can't do take back seas on this stuff.

874
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 3: You've already set things in motion which cannot be undone

875
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 3: shout out to Gandalf and there you go.

876
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: No, no, no, there you go. Guys. Just something I've

877
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: thought about in the last few minutes here, just think

878
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: about reasons that manufacturing goes to other countries. Right, We've

879
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 2: talked before about cheap labor ends up being king in

880
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 2: most places. It's one of the reasons that we've talked

881
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: about in the past that the United States was so

882
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 2: prosperous for a while there because we enslaved people, as

883
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 2: you know, in major industries within this country, and we're

884
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: not the only country that does that. And we've talked

885
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 2: about prison labor, right and ways to get the cheapest

886
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 2: labor possible, and how then it became cheaper to have

887
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: manufacturing plants in places like Taiwan for a long time,

888
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 2: in certain parts of China and other places, you know,

889
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: across the world. It just makes me wonder, how do

890
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 2: you bring back manufacturing to the United States and maintain

891
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: some kind of cheap labor system, right, because that's the

892
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: way you get products down to a price point that

893
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 2: humans can actually afford them, because often it costs a

894
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: lot of money to create things unless you're subsidizing it.

895
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 2: It does make me worry that if all of this

896
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: stuff starts going through and some of these plans and

897
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 2: I am looking you know, I'm I'm I'm looking at

898
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: a pretend crystal ball that doesn't exist, and nobody knows

899
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 2: what's going to happen, But it does feel like some

900
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 2: source of super cheap labor is going to need to

901
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 2: open up.

902
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got this in the notes too. I think

903
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 3: it's one of those unspoken things that everyone is regarding. Right,

904
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 3: and it's very logical walkthrough if cheap labor must exist, right,

905
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 3: because there are two possibilities. Let's say a round of

906
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 3: tariffs goes through. You have to make other products somehow worse,

907
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: which can get dirty somehow more expensive, or you make

908
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 3: it such that you bridge the gap by making your

909
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 3: stuff cheaper or less expensive to create which loss spoke

910
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 3: I mean in that case, but spoken artists in class

911
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 3: could still exist. But the unspoken thing there, which some

912
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 3: may call it more conspiracytorial, is what is the concept

913
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: that this would exist or move forward in concert with

914
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 3: other moves to create neo feudalism, to rediscover a peasant.

915
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 2: Class, yeah, or make yeah create one.

916
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. And look, add to this the idea that many

917
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 3: the fact that many US companies don't have the best

918
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 3: reputation here we're abroad when it comes to price control.

919
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 3: Prices spike during the pandemic due to supply chain shortages.

920
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 3: A lot of cynical consumers, ourselves among them, to be transparent,

921
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 3: they said, we said, these companies are keeping prices higher

922
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 3: than they need to be, even after things slowed down.

923
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 3: It's just so they can ride that wave squeeze out

924
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 3: a little more profit. If there was a successful tariff outcome,

925
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 3: would these companies bring the price down for the consumers?

926
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, how could you all of our systems based

927
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: on growth?

928
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 7: Right?

929
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: It's if you had those anti traces, Yes, how how

930
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: do you bring them down? And explain to your shareholders? Well, guys,

931
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: we made you know, significantly less of this quarter, but

932
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: that's because we rolled back those high prices that we

933
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 2: needed at that one time. You know, like, how do

934
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 2: you how does that ever work?

935
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 5: You can't unless you fundamentally change the foundation of the

936
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 5: whole system. That's that perma growth that's just expected and required,

937
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 5: and if you don't see it, then you are failing

938
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 5: as an industry or as a company.

939
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 3: Right.

940
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 5: It's unsustainable though too without screwing the end user at

941
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 5: the end of the day.

942
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 3: Well, to be as fair as possible, what we're showing

943
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 3: you here, folks, is that at this point, both critics

944
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 3: and supporters of tariff conversations, they admit there will be

945
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 3: economic repercussions for the public. They just don't agree on

946
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 3: the f following the severity, the window of time that

947
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 3: domestic industry will need to retrofit, and of course they

948
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 3: don't agree on whether the idea of tariffs is worth

949
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: this financial pain in the keyster in the first place.

950
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 3: The disagreements are so heated that some folks will allege

951
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 3: tariffs are a purposeful move by the current administration to

952
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 3: attack the United States, or maybe not a call coming

953
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 3: from inside the House situation cough, Russia may be more

954
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: thing to retaliate against industries that got on the wrong

955
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 3: side of the current White House. We are recording this

956
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 3: on Monday, March tenth. It's going to publish a week

957
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 3: or so later and giving out quickly. All this stuff

958
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 3: is happening. There's almost certainly going to be breaking news

959
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 3: before or as this episode goes live. We do have

960
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 3: to say a lot of what you're seeing is going

961
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 3: to be presented to you as a stab shot of

962
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 3: a moment in present time. Make no mistake. The Biden

963
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 3: administration and the previous Trump administration when he was the

964
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 3: forty fifth president, they both had an appetite for tariffs

965
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 3: as a day to day tool in trade agreements, often unfair,

966
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 3: and then as a stick to use in other tangentially

967
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 3: related conversations.

968
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: And a lot of that desire. The need to do

969
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 2: those moves comes from what happened to the global economy

970
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: after the COVID nineteen right where whole industries began to

971
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 2: shut down and were completely reshaped and changed while both

972
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 2: of those presidents were in office.

973
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 3: So here's the deal, folks. Obviously, the president is supposed

974
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: to put their country first. The US president is supposed

975
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 3: to put the US sort of at the top list

976
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 3: of priorities. That's their job. So critics aren't disagreeing on

977
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 3: that sentiment. Everybody is on board with that. The bigger

978
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: disagreement is on the approach and maybe unforeseen consequences. During

979
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 3: when Maya Angelou was right, when people tell you who

980
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 3: they are, you should believe them. Right, And during the

981
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 3: first Trump administration, the team was extremely pro tariff and

982
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 3: while campaigning on his second term, Donald Trump said, you

983
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 3: know what, we're keeping tariffs. The Biden administration, by the way,

984
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 3: continued a lot of those tariffs. This was not new stuff,

985
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 3: it's continuation of the pattern. Guy just said, I'm gonna

986
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 3: double down. I'm gonna levy a sixty or a twenty

987
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 3: percent tax on or tariff on sixty percent of everything

988
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 3: China makes or I'm gonna one hundred percent tariff everything

989
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 3: from Mexico, twenty percent everybody else across the board, you

990
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 3: know what, and if if you roll with them, screw

991
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 3: you too. That's kind of how the campaign went. And

992
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: then he also said we're going to hit American companies too.

993
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: John Deere specifically is going to get a little slap

994
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 3: on the wrist because you guys outsourced manufacturing. It's a

995
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 3: good barnstorming thing to say when you are campaigning to

996
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 3: get elected.

997
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: Oh for sure.

998
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, But then where the rubber meets the road, I guess,

999
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 5: and you actually try to execute things and then see

1000
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 5: real world negative impact. That's where my question comes is

1001
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 5: like when the stock market took such a hit when

1002
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 5: these terrorists were announced, was that as intended or was

1003
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 5: he really caught off guard and surprised by the way

1004
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 5: markets reacted and that's why the pullback happened. Is this

1005
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 5: all just kind of blustery, you know, rhetoric or does

1006
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 5: he really have a plan.

1007
01:03:55,440 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: Oh well, the way I think about it right now, guys,

1008
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 2: it's something that the Daily Show has pointed out, and

1009
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 2: a couple other I think some of the Late night

1010
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 2: folks have pointed out back in twenty twenty, right at

1011
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 2: the tail end of Donald Trump's first time as president,

1012
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: NAFTA was repealed or was removed. Right the North American

1013
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: Free Trade Agreement was taken away and a new trade

1014
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: agreement I think it's the United States, Mexico and Canada

1015
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 2: Agreement something like that. Yeah, the USMCA was put into place,

1016
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 2: and that was an idea of fixing that terrible agreement

1017
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 2: where we could where everybody is just trading freely together.

1018
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 2: Now there are more rules and tariffs and payments in place.

1019
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 2: Right and now with the second term, that agreement is

1020
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 2: being what has been talked about as it's to terrible agreement,

1021
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 2: like that's a terrible agreement between the United States and

1022
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 2: Mexico or the United States and Canada. We're getting a

1023
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 2: terrible raw deal here. But it is something that was

1024
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 2: negotiated and put together by that administration. So it's just

1025
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: very strange when we're thinking about why why some of

1026
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: these actions are taking place. That's weird.

1027
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 3: Ooh, can I tell you guys my favorite campaign promise,

1028
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 3: red tariffs? Do you hear this one? During the campaign

1029
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: for the to run for the office of the forty

1030
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 3: seventh President, of the US. The Trump campaign floated this

1031
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 3: idea that hey, if we raised tariffs enough, maybe we

1032
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 3: can do away with the income tax. Take it back,

1033
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 3: you know, pre like back to the eighteen hundreds. Add a.

1034
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 3: Multiple economists, a lot of conservative economists, by the way,

1035
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 3: didn't react well to this. They deemed it and this

1036
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 3: is a big disc from an economist. They said, it

1037
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 3: is well intentioned, but mathematically impossible.

1038
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 2: Yes, well, yeah, it is not mathing. What are the

1039
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 2: biggest exports of the United States? Yeah, well, war We've

1040
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 2: talked about that, or well, culture talked about that. But

1041
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 2: in reality, dollars to donuts. It's aircraft parts, gasoline, oil, uh,

1042
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 2: and uh what is it? Natural gas? Liquefied natural gas.

1043
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 2: And I think there's other, you know, other just manufactured goods.

1044
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 2: But it's just crazy, like those are the main things.

1045
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 2: It isn't you know, the John Deere's and stuff. But again,

1046
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 2: how are you how are you making a ton of

1047
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 2: money on that stuff? That's the stuff you're shipping out right?

1048
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 2: It just becomes so convoluted.

1049
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 3: How are you how how do we parse this right?

1050
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 3: And at this point, you know, obviously campaign promises don't

1051
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 3: consistently translate to action. But the Trump administration did and

1052
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 3: does seem set the follow up on at least some

1053
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 3: of these propositions. Collectively, they're called the second Trump Tariffs.

1054
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 3: They got into the conversation as soon as returning President

1055
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 3: Trump resumed office. He had already made trade war moves

1056
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 3: against China, like back in the day, years before you

1057
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 3: know where the Joe Biden presidency was just a twinkle

1058
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 3: in some aviator glassed eyes and Biden. Biden didn't roll

1059
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 3: them back. Yes, he rolled some back, but he he

1060
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 3: kept him. He kept him. And then when the Trump

1061
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 3: administration returns, there is nothing sweet about it, right, it's

1062
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 3: smash on site. He's like, we're doing another trade war.

1063
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 3: We're going against you know, these American neighbors, Canada and Mexico.

1064
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 3: He had three reasons, he said, First, tariffs are gonna

1065
01:07:56,600 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 3: make you guys get in line with all the drug traffic.

1066
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 3: And then second is a retaliation against your immigration policies.

1067
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 3: And then third, we're going to boost domestic manufacturing. Except

1068
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 3: for John Deere. I'm still mad at those guys. And

1069
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 3: that's where we see these tariffs. As we record now,

1070
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 3: I think it is two days from now, on March twelfth,

1071
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 3: a Wednesday, there will be a twenty five percent proposed

1072
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 3: tariff on steel and aluminum going back into play, and

1073
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 3: a lot of the big players in the US steel

1074
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 3: and aluminum industry they support this tariff.

1075
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, It's so complicated because so many of the

1076
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,839
Speaker 2: end products, like an American made Ford or a Dodge

1077
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 2: ram or something like that, they get manufactured at the

1078
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 2: very end, put together all the parts in the US. Right,

1079
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 2: it's a US product, But the aluminum, the steel, all

1080
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 2: the other stuff that ends up in that via comes

1081
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 2: from other places. So it ends up making the cost

1082
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 2: of an American product go up twenty forty percent. I mean,

1083
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 2: it's just crazy. How maybe maybe it's just difficult for

1084
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 2: my mind to wrap around it because it is so intertwined,

1085
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: and you can't raise a price on one thing and

1086
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 2: just be raising a price on that one thing.

1087
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 3: America says, hold my beer, right, let's.

1088
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: Let's see, let's see it.

1089
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 3: Well you think what? Well? You think?

1090
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 8: So now I'm just picturing our nation as a guy

1091
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 8: in a stained wife beater, you know what I mean,

1092
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 8: standing at the edge of a pontoon boat and about

1093
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 8: to put a firecracker in his ass.

1094
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 2: And yelling at the people on the shore.

1095
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah you think I won't. So this is brought to

1096
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 3: you by Natty Light, the drink of legends.

1097
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 7: Uh.

1098
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 3: This this also so goes into the idea of a

1099
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 3: faint a gamble perhaps, right, we talked about this previously.

1100
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 3: Let me propose something crazy that I know nobody will

1101
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 3: agree with. Therefore I can normalize whatever actual crazy thing

1102
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 3: I want. It's a hardball negotiating tactic, similar to the

1103
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 3: halcyon days of nineteen eighties cocaine fueled Wall Street. In short,

1104
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 3: it's saying, we don't need to use the stick, but

1105
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 3: we should wave it around so that people know we

1106
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 3: can use this stick. And this is dangerous because there

1107
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 3: are people's livelihoods on the line. Critics and supporters all

1108
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 3: know this. The question is how trustworthy is the United

1109
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 3: States as a negotiating partner If we're going to say, hey,

1110
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 3: we're going to have these crazy tariffs and then you know,

1111
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 3: a few days after we impose them, we suspend them

1112
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 3: and can in Mexico, right, Like, how what kind of

1113
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 3: predictability can you glean from that? Other than a US

1114
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:10,759
Speaker 3: admin is not to be trusted.

1115
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I've I've come away. I think

1116
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 2: this entire thing is a conspiracy to get us made

1117
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 2: maple syrup to become the thing. I think this is all.

1118
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 2: It's all trying to get that sweet Canadian maple syrup

1119
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 2: way too expensive, sorry.

1120
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 3: I mean just to spin up the manufacturing on the

1121
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 3: maple trees alone.

1122
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you just you need time and you need

1123
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: it to be way too expensive to get the good

1124
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: stuff from Canada.

1125
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 3: Right, Well, we're not a fan of cartels, so let's

1126
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 3: bust that one, you know what I mean? Right? It

1127
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 3: is a cartel?

1128
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 5: And wasn't there a maple syrup heist? Speaking of weird multiple?

1129
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's multiple? All right? We are we are getting

1130
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 3: the note that there is much more to the story.

1131
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 3: We want to hear your take on tariffs. Are they

1132
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 3: seen as a good thing in your industry? Be honest

1133
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 3: with us. Are they seen as a net positive, net

1134
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 3: negative somewhere in between? It's easy to understand why a

1135
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 3: lot of folks might see this as a conspiracy. But

1136
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 3: to what end? Is it the grizzly bluff and bluster

1137
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 3: sausage making deals of modern international trade? Or is there

1138
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 3: something else to play? Something they don't want you to know.

1139
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 3: Tell us your thoughts, find us on the emails, or

1140
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 3: find us on the telephonics, or find us on the

1141
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 3: lines the internet line lines, yeah.

1142
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 5: Exactly, or the YouTube's in fact where you can find

1143
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 5: us at Conspiracy Stuff, where we have video content the

1144
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 5: lore for your perusing enjoyment. We are also that handle

1145
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 5: on x FKA, Twitter and on Facebook with our Facebook group.

1146
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 5: Here's where it gets crazy on Instagram and TikTok. On

1147
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 5: the other hand, our Conspiracy Stuff show. But wait, there's more.

1148
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three

1149
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. If you've got something you want to

1150
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,520
Speaker 2: tell us, why not call in and leave a voicemail.

1151
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 2: You've got three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and

1152
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 2: let us know in the message if we can use

1153
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you've got

1154
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 2: more to say than can fit in a three minute voicemail,

1155
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 2: or you've got links, you got pictures, why not send

1156
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1157
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence

1158
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

1159
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 3: writes back, wait, what are you saying? That can't be true.

1160
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 3: There's one way to find out join us here in

1161
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 3: the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1162
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1163
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1164
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.