WEBVTT - DiscloseTV & the Cultic Milieu 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.040 It could happen. Here is the podcast you're listening to 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.640 with your ears or perhaps other parts of your body 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.000 if you have, I don't know, some bizarre form of 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:20.080 synesthesia that causes you to taste sound. Um, maybe you're 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.800 tasting us right now, in which case, UM, I'm gonna 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.320 open up the flavor bouquet by introducing my co host 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.360 Garrison UM, and our guest for today. Why don't you 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.040 take over now, Garrison, I've done my job great. That 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.839 sounds lovely. Yeah, hey Garrison, here could happen. Here is 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.760 the podcast. We have a special guest today, UH journalisten 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.239 researcher W. F. Thomas. Hello, Hello, it's so good to 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.680 be here on Behind the Woman's Revolution the Police Insurrection Daily. 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.199 Thank you, thank you lovely to have you. Um. A 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.760 lot of people say Garrison's voice tastes like surbet, by 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.600 the way, it's a comment. We get a lot a lot, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:02.000 a lot of a lot of a lot of those 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.440 d M s. Um, you surprised, not that. Um. So 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.880 we're gonna be talking about something I've wanted to actually 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.880 bring up myself for a while now, but I just 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.920 have not put it the work in and now Luckily 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.240 someone else did the actual work, so we now we 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.039 could just talk about it. We're talking about something called 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:25.440 disclosed TV UM, which is a broad range of things. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.200 It's not it's not just one thing. Uh, And I 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.760 guess I'll hand it over to the person who do 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.240 the actual work in terms of like how how would 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.960 you describe what disclosed TV is? But but like before 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.640 we get into like the journey of the platform and 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.840 thing like what like what is it? Yeah, UM, let 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.640 me start this off by saying, I've already before the 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:51.480 publication of the article been publicly threatened vaguely with legal 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:56.480 action from Disclosed TV, so that will be largely informing 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.040 what I say today. But we do have a lot 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:03.240 of receipts. UM, we have very scary lawyers here. So 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:08.560 I'm i'm, i'm I'm excited whatever happens, So feel free 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.680 to say whatever you want to say. But UM, Disclosed 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.160 TV markets itself and presents itself as a news aggregator 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:22.960 UM operating Twitter, UM Telegram, gab getter. They have a 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.320 Facebook as well as well as the main site where 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:33.920 they host what one could describe as articles as well. Yeah, 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.840 and I think disclosed TV for our purposes, despite like 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.280 they have a very large Facebook presence UM, but the 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.640 way that we usually interact with them specifically like me 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.280 and Robert and then other people who are like journalists 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.160 storage to anti fascist researchers, usually we interact with disclosed 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.760 TV on Telegram or through Twitter um Twitter through like 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.640 it's how they like break a lot of current events 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.920 in like a like you know, a lot of like 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.360 political figures talk about them is is Twitter um and 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.720 then Telegram is where they really disseminate these out into 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.040 more obscure groups and maybe they change their wording because 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.399 they know the audience is a little bit different and 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:18.160 they've been a vector of information for a while. Really 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.760 really with the protests, they kind of picked up a 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.079 lot of there they were everywhere in terms of like 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.320 saying specific things, not doing sourcing UM and just having 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.560 like basically they are a place where they kind of 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.360 create what then they try to create what the news 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.360 is because of how isolated they are from the sources 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.080 that they actually pull info from, and they're very they're 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.960 very interested in kind of crafting their own version of 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:51.080 events UM which appeals to people across the spectrum. Like 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.640 they don't just market towards the far right wing. Sometimes 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.240 they frame things to kind of attract of a variety 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.840 of people on like the under the Street extremist banner. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.240 Let's say. Um, so, you know, you don't just see 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.560 them in far right circles. You see discloses pop up 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.680 in a lot of places because of the way they 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.640 framed news and breaking events. UM. But they didn't always 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.520 start out like this. This isn't what they always were. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.719 They weren't always this kind of content aggregator that creates 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:23.080 their version of news. UM. And Thomas did more research 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.159 into what they were before, which I actually had not 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.800 done that research yet. UM. So yeah, let's uh, let's 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.360 talk about that a little bit. Yeah. So I'm gonna 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.960 start off with talking about how I first heard about disclosed. UM. So. 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.440 I was living in Germany when the pandemic hit UM 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:45.240 and got COVID first wave in Germany in the March. UM. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.840 Luckily I was totally asymptomatic. UM, but I was kind 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.080 of stranded in Germany for a couple of weeks UM 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.360 and how to isolate in a vacation rental uh and 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.359 the Bavarian man who owned it just kept coming in 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.440 talking to me and I would tell him, Hey, it's 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.600 probably not the best idea for you to be coming 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.280 by and chatting with me all the time. And now 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.400 he got into talking, and we're talking in German. He 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:12.080 got we got into talking about the pandemic, what he 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.800 thought about it, and he started talking about how he thought, Oh, 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:16.960 the government's making this seem way worse than it is. 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.520 You know, the deep state if you know anything about that, 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.400 and he and he said deep state in English. Um. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:27.320 And I was familiar with German far right currents at 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.200 that time. Um, but I had never encountered a pilled 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.840 German dude. And that's when I realized this is gonna 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.800 be a fucking problem. Yeah. Yeah, and and it lo 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.680 and behold, it has continued to be a problem. So 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:45.600 as I got back to the U S. And and 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.160 the other thing when I was in Germany is the 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.960 first time I toounded I encountered telegram. Um. When a 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.880 German I knew said hey, I I just don't trust 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.920 WhatsApp because it's on by Facebook. Why don't you download 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.200 telegram in two thousand nineteen, I think, um, and and 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.760 it was pretty innocuous to me at the time. I 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:11.080 didn't realize this would become a problem. Yeah, fast forward, UM. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.680 I was working on my master's project, which UM you 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:17.960 can talk about more later on because it's kind of 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.599 besides the point, UM if you don't want to hear 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.279 about it, But looking at Telegram as the cultic milieu UM, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.120 using Colin Campbell's framework of the cultic milieu UM to 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.840 understand specifically how qan on spread in Germany and how 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:38.800 Q and on interacted with these native underlying conspiracy narratives 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:43.560 within Germany. UM. Because Telegram is already massively popular in 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.960 Germany before after j six, I think of the band 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.039 wave came down and there was much more migration to 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.360 the platform. So you know, I did the social network 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.400 analysis looking at the conspirat German conspiracy is seen on 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.720 Telegram and one of the biggest notes that came up, 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.120 and I looking at a number of times shared into 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.480 other groups or channels was disclosed tv UM and that's 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.320 the first time I came into it. I look through 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.600 it and realized, okay, they there is an editorial stance 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:20.440 within this UM, and that editorial stance largely attracts conspiracists 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:25.680 and far right extremists to this coverage and too you 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:31.240 know this is widely shared among conspiracists and far right extremists. UM. 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:36.240 Fast forward. UM. I'm on Twitter, as many of us are, unfortunately, UM, 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.280 and I saw Disclosed TV just popping up everywhere, UM, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.000 even from people who who I would think should know better. Yeah, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:49.000 absolutely are you know big extremism researchers and journalists UM 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.640 shared it. I remember there one specific one that really 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.000 came across my feed. UM disclosed had had taken a 0:07:55.120 --> 0:08:00.400 video from like the Blaze, Glennbex whatever, the Empire whatever, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:08.200 UM about the firefighters who were quitting over vaccine mandate 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.760 or something and had all of their boots or whatever. 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:16.840 And I saw, yeah, lots of people sharing that as well. UM. 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.280 And eventually I got tired of saying, hey, this should 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:26.120 is suspect, don't share it UM, and decided to write 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.280 an article about it so I could just send my 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.640 article to people. And it's really interesting what I found. UM. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:37.520 Disclosed tv started off in the mid two thousand's as 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:43.840 just this forum for UFOs, paranormal stuff, cryptids, bigfoot sightings, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:50.160 and existed in largely the same format until two thousand 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.520 and twenty one. UM. There were some shifts in in 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.880 the way the site presented itself. Um, it was. It 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.640 started off as a member loggin where member could write 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.200 articles that were largely long form forum posts and then 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:09.360 have people comment on them and reply. Um. And at 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:15.040 one point Disclosed made the jump to functioning as a 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:19.480 news aggregator while including an editorial spin on that and 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.800 including some of their own articles. Do you want me 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.280 to get more into that now, Yeah, because yeah, because 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.719 like the shift was was it wasn't like immediate as well, right, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.920 Like they were starting to kind of present themselves in 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.640 more of a news gathering way, you know, around the 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.959 late of course, during this became a big thing in 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.400 terms of their social media presence. Um, they were trying 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.920 to present themselves as like a news aggregator, right, but 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.400 they still operated that. But they still operated the forum 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.640 on their site throughout most of that time. And it's 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.320 only until recently where they shut that forum down. Um, 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.000 which was you know, full of full of all kinds 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.800 of conspiratorial nonsense. It's very easy to see passed for 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:05.040 most people, uh, secret you know, secret Arctic ship, which 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:10.480 is yeah, it's always that's usually Yeah, even going to 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:15.240 get stuff like watch this s j W get wrecked, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.440 which which is not a quotation, but just that kind 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:31.080 of vibe, that style of content. Yeah, going from the 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.560 forum operating than what they know their social media accounts 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.920 to the shift this more of like presenting as a 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.960 news website. Talking about that and the potential effects that 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.920 we see this having on both like the social media 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.880 sites and just the overall trend of news aggregation in general, 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.120 I guess. Yeah. So the first big shift that I 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.839 found UM was the creation of their Telegram channel, which 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:58.120 is in January of one actually, so this is relatively 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:04.600 more recent than Yeah, if that happened UM, and they 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.360 operated their Telegram as a UM as more in this 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.040 traditional news aggregator since and so that's how they really 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.439 blew up on Telegram. At some point they deleted all 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.360 of their old tweets UM and started operating their Twitter 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.920 in a similar manner. It was after they created this 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:28.120 telegram channel UM in September, actually overnight on septemb they 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.360 completely re rebranded the site. They took out all the 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:37.600 user forums UM, they included backdated articles to a year 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.760 prior UM, and looking looking through archives of it, there 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:47.600 was a note saying something along the lines of we 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.480 have found so much growth on our social media are 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:57.760 growing Telegram channel, are growing Twitter account UM, and something 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.960 to the effect of we we are changing our strategy 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.679 and going about this a different way. UM. And you 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.560 can if you were into the forum, you can join 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.880 our discord UM which is defunct and I'll get I'll 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:17.440 get into that later. UM. And yeah, looking it was 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.880 really interesting too because looking at these backdated articles UM, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:27.960 they included very obviously plagiarized content. UM. They had I 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.200 believe it's it's all in the article, but they had 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:37.719 four journalists UM names attached with the article using um 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:48.200 AI generated images for their pictures. UM. And the especially 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.720 the articles that they themselves published UM were very focused 0:12:51.920 --> 0:13:00.600 on UFOs paranormal paranormal phenomenon UM, as well as content 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:06.400 that could cause skepticism within an audience, UM about vaccines 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.320 and lockdowns. And I do not know the intent of 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.880 U their editorial board, and so I cannot speak on that, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.080 but of course it generated this effect. Yes, that is, 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.439 they found a way of creating content which develops a 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.360 very specific audience, which grew their numbers, which made them, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.600 you know what one could assume would make them want 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.360 to make more of that content. Because that makes more 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:34.400 numbers than they can UM use that to grow their platform. UM. Yeah, 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.280 specifically leading up like after after January UM ramping up 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.240 one of the vaccines were coming more and more common 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.319 in the States and that across the world. UM. They 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.280 have seen a pretty significant growth and have changed their 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:56.320 platform accordingly exactly. UM. So we began looking into who 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.400 the who the fun owns this, what's going on with 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:04.199 this UM. Like all German companies UM, and it is 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.880 based in Germany, there's a requirement by law to include 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:11.000 an imprint or an impress them that includes an address 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:17.280 UM contact information for the site UM. There in the 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.600 company that owns it UM a company called Future Bites 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:26.160 operates disclosed tv UM, which describes itself as a private 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:31.160 equity firm and media group. UM and looking into the 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.440 ownership behind Future Bites is a man by the name 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.560 of Uva Brown who has a pretty interesting backstory. He's hosted, 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:43.080 he's He's made numerous web hosting sites. UM. I believe 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.600 he created some dating sites as well, but but my 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.680 research was not conclusive, so that's a maybe. UM. But 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.520 eventually he sold. He had his most success when he 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.800 sold one of his web hosting sites to go Daddy 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.800 for a lot of money, and along the way, in 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:07.280 his own as he described, booked a flight on virgin 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.880 to go into space and see for himself if the earth, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.120 if the Earth was flat. Oh my god, awesome cool 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.960 that that, this is great? Thank you. Yeah. So this 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:22.520 this is who we're dealing with, um. Sweet. And the 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.360 thing about Disclosed being based in Germany, UM, that that 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:32.280 becomes an issue, UM, is that Germany has a very 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.720 different uh look at free speech than in the US. UM. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:42.040 For example, even online displaying swastikas UM and denying the 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.520 Holocaust is legal and is a prosecutable crime. They can 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:51.440 get you jail time. UM. So as we explored as 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.680 I mostly and UM, there's additional reporting from Berni Piper 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.560 and I'll talk a bit more about that later explored 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.880 the discord and their telegram. We realized, Hum, it seems 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.600 to be a lot of Nazis here, and by which 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.320 when I say seems to be a lot of Nazis, 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:11.400 I mean people with swastikas in their profile builds, UM 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.760 with you know, names, referencing the Holocaust with the whispers 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:21.320 parentheses um, and saying denying that the hologast Happened UM, 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.840 and also sharing the neo Nazi, famous neo Nazi, infamous 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:30.680 new Nazi propaganda film Europa The Last Battle UM, which 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.720 was shared by prominent q and On influencer ghost Ezra. Yeah. 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:40.280 I know. UM, oh man, this this came up a 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:44.680 few days ago. One of the one of the channels 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.480 that me and someone else have been watching, UH forwarded 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.960 me it being that that that film being shared at 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.400 the it was it was it was that the the 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.880 Free Oregon Telegram channel was sharing links to that and 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.160 I wonder I would I would like to track back 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:05.320 where that link came from. UM. Yeah. Not not great 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.399 seeing that film circulate more and more, especially among like 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:10.720 you know, the free organ Telegram channels, you know, like 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:15.480 Anti mask, Anti backs, Anti Lockdown channel. Yeah, and seeing 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:21.000 the percoloration of that type of content. Yeah. So and 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.720 prepare for this article UM. With the help of of 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:30.680 the Logically editorial team, I'm a freelancer UM, their current 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:36.359 head of content, Ernie Piper UM sent an email basically asking, hey, 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.080 what's going on. You all seem to have a Nazi 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:44.800 problem that's kind of borderline illegal in Germany, UM, to 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.000 which for a while this for for about twenty four 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.919 hours as closed, just went totally quiet and didn't post 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:57.480 Um and then came out with a post specifically targeting 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.280 Ernie Um by name him and with a picture of 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.639 him and linking to some of his old reporting work 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.919 as well, Um saying yes, Uva Brown owns this. He 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.720 got his money from Go daddy. You know, we value 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:17.080 free speech and we condemn hatred whatnot, and and saying, oh, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.560 our telegram we have a tell there's a telegram group, 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.840 but we have these rules in it, and h okay, yeah, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.640 we we had to shut down the discord that got 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.520 a little bit out of hand. We admit that. You know, 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.879 they had people denying the Holocaust with swastka icons in 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:36.159 their discord that they didn't seem to care too much 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.600 about until someone pointed it out. Um. And you know 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:45.159 there's there was additionally very explicit neo Nazi content in 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:47.719 their telegram channel as well, with the excuse, oh well, 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:53.040 we're a glowing growing platform. We we can't moderate everything. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.359 Is well they have They just crossed four hundred thousand 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.960 in their telegram channel and I think about thirty thousand 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:05.119 and their telegram group UM, which is frankly bullshit. Yeah 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.760 that is if if my personal opinion is that if 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.040 you cannot don't have the resources to moderate this space, 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.879 you probably shouldn't space the space. Um. And and additionally confirming, oh, okay, 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.840 we we when we made our new version of the site. Yes, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.679 we backdated some articles from previous user generated content that 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.040 we you know, didn't vet properly. We're trying to fix 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.520 that now they removed some of those articles. Um. And 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.680 that yeah, we none of the people who who are 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.720 the authors of our articles are real people and they're 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.840 all pen names. Um. You know. They also have or 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:46.720 at least had a tab on their website that said 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.239 right for us and looking for people to send them 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.040 things and saying you know, well we will disclose your 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.239 bio and link to all your social media if you 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.160 write a story for us. And they're there was zero 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.200 of that happening as well. So do you think that, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.920 I know, like on the rules for their telegram they 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.560 have the no Nazi stuff rule. Um. Do you think 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.760 they're actually trying to discourage that because they're scared of 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.639 legal stuff or is that just presentorary and they I 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.800 guess you know, this is just going into speculations. So 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.400 I think this might be more a question for even 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.760 Robert Um in terms of yeah, like is the anti 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.800 Nazi stuff presentorary? And because it does seem to be 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.280 a lot of their user base is fostering that type 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.639 of thing or is you know being moved over from 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.439 other similar channels? Um? Because yeah, like a lot of 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.080 like the amount that we see disclose, like you know, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.480 intercept with channels like you know, the Rise above Him 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.480 the channel, UM, and a whole bunch of like eco 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.239 fascist channels, and a whole bunch of channels you know 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.960 on a like a broad range of like actual like 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.720 fascist topics, like people who are like into fascist theory. 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.399 Um is quite high the like the amount that disclosed 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.800 shows up. Um. And I don't know, like you could 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:58.960 look at all their stuff saying I mean, like yeah 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.919 on on the their rule page saying no Nazi bullshit. Um. 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:04.760 But then if you spend any amount of time looking 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.840 at at where they're posts are forwarded, it's almost primarily 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.800 people who are self describe themselves as fascists. UM. So 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.440 I mean, yeah, it's hard to or Donald J. Trump Jr. Yes, Yes, 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.239 it expands out into a lot of you know, just 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.280 like you know, American journalists suits studying streamism could also 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.040 share discloses stuff on Twitter, right, that is part of 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.480 their thing is making that and you know that that 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.320 does strengthen them because it gives them that legitimacy. So 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.280 then when people point out that they have Nazi problem, like, no, 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.120 that's not us, that's just some of our users who 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.240 are trolling or you know whatever whatever bullshit they want 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.520 to say. Um So I guess, like how I guess 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.560 the real way to frame this is like how often 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.639 have you seen Nazi stuff associated with the disclose with 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.919 the Disclosed TV brand? Because that's the one thing we 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.159 actually can measure, right, we can't measure their intentions, but 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.200 we can't measure how often this stuff happens. Yeah, mean, 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.280 that's always like the best way to measure that kind 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.280 of thing, rather than just sort of like making the 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.919 allegation listing like we find it in this many channels, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.840 we see it shared in these areas, it's being discussed 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.120 by these people, and like like that that's I think 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.480 always kind of how you actually build these these sort 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.280 of networks is by looking at what is actually spreading 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.119 where like that's that it is thankfully, something that you 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.399 can measure pretty objectively, and like they are fostering it 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.640 with the amount of stuff they talk about, like George Soros, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:34.240 and you know, the amount of stuff that they like. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.280 The way they frame breaking news is has that editorial 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.000 bent where it's very clear that it's getting pushed in 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:46.360 a specific direction like there's that is That is a 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:49.320 thing that you can observe by reading the type of 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:54.600 narratives they're weaving via how they report information. Um, the 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.919 the topics that they choose to cover, our topics that 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:06.439 reson very deeply with conspiracist and with far at extremist communities. UM. 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.800 If I had to speculate, UM, I will say at 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.040 least since the article has come out, Um, they've done 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:18.120 a better job of moderating their telegram channel at least 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:22.439 for now. So good job, disclosed, TV no one. You 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.320 can't find links to Europe with the last battle there anymore. 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:30.520 You can still find you can still find very rampant 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:37.879 homophobia slurs um, because you know they didn't. They clearly 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:41.000 auto blocked some words, but people can shorten them or 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.080 use different spellings for those words to still be used 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:52.240 in the channel. Um, there's still anti Semitic um coded 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:56.520 anti Semitic references as well responding to something saying oive 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.199 a for example, which is something that tends to be 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:06.399 used by a lot of neo Nazis and anti Semites. Yeah, 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:08.520 I mean even and if you do any amount of 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:12.480 research on Telegram, you will you will find forward links 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:17.000 forwarded links to this channel all everywhere, like if it's 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:21.840 it is, it is so massive. The footprint that they 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:27.280 have currently in the in like the the cycle of 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:32.520 of forwarding posts specifically on Telegram UM and yeah, and 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:34.439 they're they're getting a lot of traction on it because 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:37.240 they have stuff framed in a way that's really easy 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:41.399 for them to have those stuff like line up with 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:46.520 the communities that promote those types of worldviews UM and 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.520 promote the you know, the narratives that they want to foster. 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:54.680 So let's see, let's have another quick break and then 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:59.080 let's maybe talk about your big master's project, which is 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:03.040 really interesting. Yeah, can I can? I can I do it? Yeah? 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:07.760 I do this. You know you know what isn't telegram? Uh? 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.760 Literally these ads unless we get an ad by Telegram, 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:14.760 which we are primarily sponsored by the Duo Brothers UM. 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:18.679 But that's for a separate project. My favorite at is 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:20.720 the is the one where it's the kid playing and 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:34.960 they find a gun. Oh yeah, that's my favorite. And 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:39.280 oh we are thanks to great hope. Everybody enjoyed that 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:44.280 kid finding a gun a kid firing it. Yeah, so 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:48.120 there's one of my favorite tweets recently was like somebody, 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:51.160 it was somebody like clipped a screen grab of news 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.240 article that was like a toddler has shot someone every 0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:56.480