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Speaker 1: Previously on Queen of the Khan.

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Speaker 2: My name's Peggy and I'm the CEO of King Management.

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Speaker 2: King Management is a company I founded because I wanted

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Speaker 2: to help professional athletes manage their finances.

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Speaker 1: Professional athletes like NBA superstar Dennis Rodman, who hires this

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Speaker 1: beguiling money manager in two thousand and nine to take

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Speaker 1: the reins of his financial life. She said she's a

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Speaker 1: Harvard grad. She said she made millions of dollars on

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Speaker 1: Wall Street. She said she's creating generational wealth for Dennis

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Speaker 1: Rodman with savvy investments She's making all over the world.

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Speaker 1: She said a lot of things.

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Speaker 3: She mentioned to us to call her Raquale.

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Speaker 1: But three years after Raquel aka Peggy gets power of

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Speaker 1: attorney and takes full control of all of Dennis Rodman's

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Speaker 1: bank accounts and finances, things start going off the rails.

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Speaker 4: Who called me and say my cable is off or

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Speaker 4: my power is off. He was renting out this place

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Speaker 4: in Eventuro. The landlord will call me all the time,

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Speaker 4: like the lake, and I'm like.

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Speaker 5: What are you talking about? The rent is late. He's

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Speaker 5: got plenty of money. D Rinch shouldn't be late.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton, and this is Queen of the Khan

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Speaker 1: The Athlete Whisperer Episode two, Victorious Secrets.

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Speaker 5: This is Today with Savannah go Thrie.

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Speaker 1: And It's twenty thirteen and Dennis Rodman is on the

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Speaker 1: Today Show being interviewed by Lester Holt about all the

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Speaker 1: headlines he's been making for not paying child support. At

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Speaker 1: this point, the public perception is that Dennis Rodman is broke,

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Speaker 1: struggling with his addiction to alcohol, and can't afford to

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Speaker 1: take care of himself or his family.

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Speaker 5: Are you broken? No, I'm not broke at all.

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Speaker 1: I'm not one of the guys and me not the

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan money or the Scottic Pippy money. I mean

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Speaker 1: a decent living in the NBA. But broke.

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Speaker 5: No, I'm not broke part and person.

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Speaker 6: With all your legal problems, people around you have said

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Speaker 6: that you're sick, that you're not well, and they've talked

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Speaker 6: specifically about your struggles with alcohol.

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Speaker 1: What Lester Holt has no way of knowing here is

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Speaker 1: that while Dennis Rodman does have a well documented drinking problem,

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Speaker 1: according to his manager at the time, he's still making

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Speaker 1: a lot of money doing movies, TV shows and public appearances.

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Speaker 4: We'd go to events and sometimes they pay us in CASS.

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Speaker 4: We could have one hundred thousand thousand cass. It wasn't

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Speaker 4: a lot of money to us.

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Speaker 1: Regardless, all that money would go straight to his financial manager, Peggy,

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Speaker 1: to supposedly pay all of Dennis's bills, especially his child support.

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Speaker 1: She's the one with power of attorney. She's the one

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Speaker 1: depositing every dollar into his bank account, a bank account

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Speaker 1: he no longer has access to. That was the arrangement

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Speaker 1: he made with Peggy years earlier. Dennis Rodman didn't trust

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Speaker 1: himself to be a good steward of his money, so

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Speaker 1: he put all his trust in Peggy and insisted everyone

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Speaker 1: around him trust her too.

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Speaker 4: You have to remember, Prince Marketing Group has to send

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Speaker 4: the money to wherever Dennis wants them to.

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Speaker 1: Prince Marketing Group was one of the companies getting Dennis

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Speaker 1: Rodman endorsement deals at the time and booking him lucrative

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Speaker 1: public appearances.

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Speaker 4: Their fiduciary responsibility is to Dennis. It's his decision, it's

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Speaker 4: his money. He can send it anywhere he wants. I

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Speaker 4: was advising him very strongly not to send it anymore

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Speaker 4: to Peggy, because I just didn't have any trust in her.

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Speaker 1: And at the height of his public money woes, Dennis

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Speaker 1: Rodman's girlfriend at the time, Gigi, steps in and tries

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Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of things.

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Speaker 7: I'm calling Peggy, going, what's going on? Where's the money?

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Speaker 7: I know that he just did a gig. She's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 7: you know he has back taxes. All that money had

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Speaker 7: to go to the irs. He doesn't have any money, Gigi.

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Speaker 7: He has no money, and.

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Speaker 8: I would say, how is that possible?

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Speaker 1: According to Gig, Dennis is getting numb to it all

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Speaker 1: at this point and resentful, but he's not necessarily angry

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Speaker 1: at Peggy. He's just fed up with the situation in general.

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Speaker 7: So he would go to work and he felt like

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Speaker 7: he was working for free, you know. He'd go and work,

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Speaker 7: do the job, and then wasn't rewarded for it because

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Speaker 7: it was all according to Peggy.

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Speaker 8: Oh, I'm sorry, Dennis.

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry, honey, but you don't get anything this time

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Speaker 7: because all this had to go here, here and here

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Speaker 7: and here.

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Speaker 8: So he was going like, why do I even try?

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Speaker 1: And Gigi wasn't the only one taken aback by Dennis's

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Speaker 1: cash flow problem. His manager at the time was also

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Speaker 1: growing very very suspicious of where and how Peggy was

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Speaker 1: supposedly investing all of Dennis's money, so he did some snooping.

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Speaker 4: I had a buddy of mine who worked for a

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Speaker 4: private investment bank, have a meeting with her, and he

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Speaker 4: went and met with her, and he called me right

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Speaker 4: after and he's like, she.

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Speaker 9: Couldn't explain any of the investments because she always claimed

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Speaker 9: that she was investing some of his money in some

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Speaker 9: overseas investment.

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Speaker 4: When he went to try to ascertain, okay, well, exactly

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Speaker 4: what are you doing, like how are you handling it?

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Speaker 4: She just couldn't speak on a very competent level as

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Speaker 4: to like finance. She just didn't understand like basic finance.

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Speaker 4: So there's no way she was invested this money because

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Speaker 4: she couldn't even explain what she was doing.

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Speaker 5: Nor did this get any reports.

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Speaker 1: And that was the other troubling thing. Peggy was just

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Speaker 1: not leaving any kind of paper trail at all. She

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Speaker 1: didn't appear to be documenting anything.

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Speaker 5: It was so ambiguous.

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Speaker 4: I could never get a straight answer from anybody. And

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Speaker 4: I talked to Dennis and he would say, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, she's handling my stuff and I'm paying her

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Speaker 4: to handle it. I go, well, how much are you

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Speaker 4: paying her? Like he could never really communicate to me

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Speaker 4: what the arrangement was because I would ask Peggy, like, Peggy,

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Speaker 4: what is the arrangement you have? Where are the documents?

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Speaker 4: Where are the bank statements? And she would always have

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Speaker 4: an answer for everything.

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Speaker 1: And when Peggy was asked where Dennis Rodman's child support

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Speaker 1: payments were, or his tax payments or his rent money.

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Speaker 5: She was like the best at saying the check is

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Speaker 5: in the mail.

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Speaker 4: She always was like, oh, I sent it from the

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Speaker 4: wrong account, or oh the wired didn't come in, or

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Speaker 4: oh someone at the bank didn't whatever.

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Speaker 5: The bank closed early.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, one by one. The people in

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Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman's life try to warn him about Peggy.

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Speaker 5: And he would just kind of blow it off.

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Speaker 1: Dennis's girlfriend at the time, Gigi, makes plea after plea

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Speaker 1: after plea.

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Speaker 7: I was like, Dennis, I've been telling you that this

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Speaker 7: doesn't make sense. I've been telling you that I feel

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Speaker 7: like Peggy's stealing. He kept saying na, na, na, and

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Speaker 7: I'd say she's stealing from you, Like, literally, where's this

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Speaker 7: money going?

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Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman is flat out refusing to believe Peggy is

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Speaker 1: doing anything wrong. After all, she's like a mother to

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Speaker 1: him at this point, even though he's getting blasted in

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Speaker 1: the press for not making his child support payments, which

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Speaker 1: was entirely Peggy's responsibility. She's supposed to be paying all

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Speaker 1: his bills, especially his child support.

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Speaker 6: It's just kind of a heartless move.

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Speaker 1: My buddy, Evan Goldstein, like.

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Speaker 6: Steal the other shit, but like, how about you at

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Speaker 6: least like stick to the paying for the little kids.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 6: It's like, as a father, like shit like that pisses

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Speaker 6: me off man.

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Speaker 1: So I spoke to Michelle, Dennis Rodman's ex wife, and

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Speaker 1: she agreed to the interview. Then she backed out of

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Speaker 1: the interview, but in a half hour so I spoke

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Speaker 1: to her. She did tell me she knew Peggy was

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Speaker 1: a scammer from the get real. She said the minute

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Speaker 1: Peggy entered their lives, the money stopped. She would get evicted,

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Speaker 1: She'd be staying in motels. The money for their kids,

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Speaker 1: she couldn't buy them groceries like. She talked about being

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Speaker 1: in constant desperation for money from Dennis to support the

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Speaker 1: kids and her that just stopped coming when Peggy came

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Speaker 1: on board, so she knew Peggy was up to no good. Yea,

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Speaker 1: and Michelle Rodbin blew the whistle early and often, but

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Speaker 1: nobody was listening, including Dennis Rodbin. And maybe it's because

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Speaker 1: by then she was his ex wife. And you know,

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Speaker 1: even that title alone, it doesn't engender much like Sharster

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Speaker 1: believe you think she's got an extra grind. But Dennis

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Speaker 1: Rodbin's manager at the time, remembers all too well Michelle

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Speaker 1: Rodbin's concerns.

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Speaker 4: We're standing in the four yer of the house and

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Speaker 4: Michelle pulled me aside. She said, you know, Peggy's stealing

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Speaker 4: from Dennis. That's the first time anyone like said out

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Speaker 4: loud what I was thinking, like, there's something off here.

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Speaker 4: But she was the first one to come out and

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Speaker 4: say it. And that's what started the ball rolling as

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Speaker 4: far as my mindset, And it was just maddening because

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Speaker 4: I'm like, Dennis, listen, man, you have got to do

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Speaker 4: something about this, and he just wouldn't do it. We

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Speaker 4: tried for years, years to get him to fire her.

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Speaker 5: He just wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Peggy, in an attempt to share responsibility

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Speaker 1: with Dennis's manager, or share blame tries to include him

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Speaker 1: on Dennis's financials.

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Speaker 4: Peggy wanted to add me onto Dennis's accounts, and I said, absolutely,

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Speaker 4: under no circumstances will I be listed on any of

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Speaker 4: his accounts.

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Speaker 1: Little does Peggy know she's about to be found out.

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Speaker 1: We'll explain how after the break. Welcome back to Queen

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Speaker 1: of the Cohn. Dennis Rodman's financial manager. Peggy is doing

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Speaker 1: some shady things and it's all about to catch up

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Speaker 1: with her.

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Speaker 4: Peggy wanted to add me onto Dennis's accounts, and I said, absolutely,

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Speaker 4: under no circumstances will I be listed on any of

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Speaker 4: his accounts.

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Speaker 1: Around this time in twenty thirteen, Dennis Rodman hires a

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Speaker 1: new attorney to go to court and make the case

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Speaker 1: that his child support payments should be reduced because he's

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Speaker 1: not making the kind of money he was making back

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Speaker 1: in the heyday when he was playing in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: He's making much less now, so his child support payment

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Speaker 1: should be based on his current income and not what

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Speaker 1: he was making a decade or so earlier. But by

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Speaker 1: Peggy defaulting on his current child support payments, it causes

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Speaker 1: a bunch of problems for Dennis that no one sees coming.

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Speaker 1: According to the family attorney Dennis Hires, one.

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Speaker 11: Of the major issues is when he would have to travel.

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Speaker 11: Obviously he need a passport, like we all would, and

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Speaker 11: if you don't pay your child support, your passport gets revoked.

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Speaker 11: So that's what was consistently happening. The passport issue took

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Speaker 11: on a life of its own right, So that was

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Speaker 11: sort of like a case in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: I was dealing with a child.

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Speaker 11: Support enforcement agency and pretty much begging them please, like,

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Speaker 11: let him use his passport. Here's the proof, here's the contract.

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Speaker 11: He wants to make money, he wants to pay everybody,

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Speaker 11: you know, so he literally would be afraid to go

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Speaker 11: to the airport for fear of being stopped.

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Speaker 8: It's horrible. It is a horrible situation to be in.

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Speaker 1: On the bright side, though, once this new attorney starts

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Speaker 1: looking into Dennis's finances to make her child support payment

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Speaker 1: modification request to the court, things start unraveling. For Peggy.

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Speaker 11: We were just constantly, constantly getting the run around. It

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Speaker 11: was always he doesn't have the money, but yet I

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Speaker 11: can't really show it. And then the last minute, these financials,

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Speaker 11: if there was any type of a balance sheet or

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Speaker 11: anything put together. It was just completely half assed. It

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Speaker 11: was a joke. I mean, this is accounting one oh one.

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Speaker 11: So she obviously was hiding something, but.

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Speaker 1: Exactly what that was would take a while to figure out.

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Speaker 1: What that attorney did know was. When Dennis hired Peggy

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Speaker 1: to run his finances in two thousand and nine, he

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Speaker 1: was one hundred thousand dollars in debt. Peggy was supposed

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Speaker 1: to pay that debt down and invest the rest of

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Speaker 1: his money instead, by twenty twelve, Dennis Rodman is eight

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars in debt and none of his bills

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Speaker 1: are getting paid. And yet Dennis still refuses to believe

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Speaker 1: Peggy is doing anything wrong, leaving his attorney no choice

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Speaker 1: but to drag it out in public.

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Speaker 11: I remember one day sitting in court in Orange County

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Speaker 11: and questioning Dennis and trying to explain, you know, trying

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Speaker 11: to prove his modification.

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Speaker 1: So picture it. Dennis Rodman is on the stand in

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Speaker 1: family court being asked about all his expenses, all the

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Speaker 1: charges that are showing up on his credit card statements

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Speaker 1: which are now being shown to the entire courtroom on

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Speaker 1: an overhead projector. Suddenly Dennis notices several charges on his

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Speaker 1: credit card for thousands of dollars at Victorious Secret, and

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Speaker 1: it stuns him.

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Speaker 11: He just sat back and he says, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 11: like it was an out of body experience.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't even.

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Speaker 11: Really worrying about the fact that he's in the middle

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Speaker 11: of his own trial. He says, I was never I've

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Speaker 11: never been there, Like, that's not me.

250
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Speaker 1: Finally, these random Victorious Secret charges seem to snap Dennis

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Speaker 1: Rodman out of the Peggy induced hayes he's been in

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Speaker 1: for years.

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Speaker 6: And he's literally in a courtroom on record, and the

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Speaker 6: lawyer is like kind of pulling a fast one, just like,

255
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Speaker 6: let me just now that I have you sitting still

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Speaker 6: here and not shotgunning a beer off of top models,

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Speaker 6: you know, cleavage, Like here we go, sit right here,

258
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Speaker 6: read these And it took that for him to go,

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Speaker 6: ohh wait a second, Yeah, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: His girlfriend at the time is there when it all

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Speaker 1: goes down.

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Speaker 7: I remember him coming back and he was just so upset,

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Speaker 7: you know, just so distraught. And in fact, he had

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Speaker 7: called me at one point and said, hey, did you

265
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Speaker 7: take my credit card? Did you spend two thousand dollars

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Speaker 7: at Victoria's Secret, and I said, Dennis, wouldn't you know

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Speaker 7: if I spent two thousand dollars at Victoria's Secret, wouldn't

268
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Speaker 7: you see it?

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Speaker 8: You know?

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Speaker 7: So he was like kind of just caught off guard.

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Speaker 7: And I think that's when he started realizing, wait a minute,

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Speaker 7: I know I didn't do it. She didn't do it,

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Speaker 7: And so that's when he really started going, Okay, what's

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Speaker 7: going on here.

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Speaker 1: It's not long after that California court appearance, Dennis is

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Speaker 1: back in Miami and he's becoming increasingly frustrated with a

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Speaker 1: lack of money in his life. He's working all the time,

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Speaker 1: and yet he feels like he has nothing to show

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Speaker 1: for it. So Dennis Rodman finally decides to take matters

280
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Speaker 1: into his own hands. He grabs Gigi and drives to

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Speaker 1: Fort Lauderdale at the crack of dawn.

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Speaker 7: He and I in the early morning went to Peggy's

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Speaker 7: house because he had no money, he didn't have a dollar,

284
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Speaker 7: and he was ringing the doorbell, ringing the doorbell, and

285
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Speaker 7: she didn't come down, she wasn't answering her phone. And

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Speaker 7: then after a while she finally came to the window

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Speaker 7: and she yelled out the window. She was just waking

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Speaker 7: up and she had a robe on. She's like, honey, honey,

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Speaker 7: I'm sleeping. You have to come back later. He was like, Hey,

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Speaker 7: I have no money, what's up with that? And she

291
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Speaker 7: was just like, Dennis, Dennis Darling, don't worry, I'm gonna

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Speaker 7: fix it.

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Speaker 8: Let me get up and I'll get stuff together for you.

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Speaker 8: And he was irate.

295
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Speaker 1: And in a weird twist, Peggy's brother, Elkin, was Dennis

296
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Speaker 1: Rodman's road manager at the time and de facto best friend.

297
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Speaker 1: Remember Elkin's the one Dennis thanks along with Peggy during

298
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Speaker 1: his Basketball Hall of Fame speed Peggy King, Elkin King

299
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Speaker 1: the family that these guys are taking care of me

300
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Speaker 1: these days. Thank you, Peggy. Steve Simon Elkin works alongside

301
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: his sister Peggy at King Management. At least that was

302
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Speaker 1: the story Dennis's people were told.

303
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Speaker 4: It was quite some time after Peggy was in the

304
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 4: picture that Elkin was coming to town, like I had

305
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 4: no idea who he was, And she said it was

306
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Speaker 4: her brother was coming to town to help her with

307
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Speaker 4: her business. And there were significant warning signs of what

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00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 4: was to come next. Something just did not add up

309
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Speaker 4: with Elkin's relationship with Peggy.

310
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Speaker 1: But in no time, Elkin becomes Dennis's road manager and

311
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Speaker 1: the two are inseparable trapesing all over the world together,

312
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Speaker 1: doing public appearances in Russia, in North Korea, in all

313
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Speaker 1: kinds of profitable places.

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Speaker 9: My responsibilities were to like completely run Dennis. I lived

315
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Speaker 9: in the same apartment building. I did all of the

316
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Speaker 9: all of the security, all just basically one on one

317
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Speaker 9: with Dennis. It's like this shit happened so fast.

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Speaker 10: In my eyes.

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Speaker 9: What people don't really understand is like I had a

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Speaker 9: lifestyle that was roughly about fifty thousand dollars a month.

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Speaker 9: Dennis and I that's what we spend. We live like

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Speaker 9: king five hundred dollars breakfasts. I'm with this guy for years,

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Speaker 9: and that's what Dennis spent fifty thousand dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: Dennis's girlfriend at the time, Gigi, never liked Elkin at all.

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Speaker 1: She had a bad feeling about.

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Speaker 7: Him, and I would tell Dennis like, I don't want

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Speaker 7: Elkin hanging around you.

328
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Speaker 8: I don't want him to go on trips with you.

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Speaker 8: He's not the person that should be going on trips

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Speaker 8: with you.

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Speaker 7: I felt like Elkin was definitely writing his coattails. He

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Speaker 7: wanted to be in his realm. He wanted to be

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Speaker 7: able to brag about Dennis. I felt like they were

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Speaker 7: using Dennis in every aspect.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to Dennis at the time, his road manager and

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Speaker 1: yes friend Elkin, was trying to help Dennis get a

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Speaker 1: handle on his money problems. Behind his back.

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Speaker 7: Elkin would be like, Gigi, you know that, Like, we

340
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 7: gotta control Dennis because he's out of control, and that

341
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 7: means we got to control his money. We got to

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Speaker 7: watch what he's doing. He can't know what's in his account.

343
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Speaker 7: And part of me was thinking, Okay, I'm in agreement

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Speaker 7: with that, because he was drinking, and I know that

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Speaker 7: if we would go out, let's say he had money

346
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Speaker 7: in his pocket, he'd want to go to the strip

347
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Speaker 7: club and turn those into ones and throw them in

348
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Speaker 7: the air. I understood that, so I'm in agreement with that.

349
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Speaker 1: But shortly after, Dennis confronts Peggy outside her Fort Lauderdale

350
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Speaker 1: mansion in the wee hours that fateful morning.

351
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Speaker 8: He was like, Hey, I have no money, what's up

352
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Speaker 8: with that?

353
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Speaker 1: In a fit of rage, Dennis goes over to Elkin's place,

354
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Speaker 1: grabs him and the three of them, Dennis, Elkin, and

355
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Speaker 1: Gig jump in a car and start driving.

356
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Speaker 7: So he got Elkin and said, we're going to the bank.

357
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Speaker 7: And we went to the bank and Elkin's like, Dennis,

358
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Speaker 7: you don't have any money, Okay.

359
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 8: You have to just leave it alone. We'll fix it.

360
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 7: So he gets out of the car and Elkin goes

361
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Speaker 7: he cannot talk to those bankers. We've already told the

362
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 7: bankers that they cannot talk to him about his finances.

363
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Speaker 1: Needless to say, Dennis didn't get any money out of

364
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Speaker 1: the bank that day. While the bank account was actually

365
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: in his name, he was not listed as a signatory,

366
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Speaker 1: meaning he wasn't legally allowed to withdraw money from that account.

367
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Speaker 1: That's how Peggy had set things up. And not long

368
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Speaker 1: after that fiasco, Dennis Rodman's attorney sends a letter to

369
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 1: Peggy firing her, accusing her of fraud, writing, although you

370
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: claim to have a graduate degree from Harvard, it's more

371
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: like your resume could be a study in fictional writing

372
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: at Harvard. That letter gets leaked to the press and

373
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: TMZ picks it up and publishes a story about it

374
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,199
Speaker 1: headlined Dennis Rodman brutally fires business manager quote She's a

375
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: total fraud. And you won't believe what Peggy says after

376
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Speaker 1: the break Welcome Back to Queen of the Cohn So.

377
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: TMZ runs a piece calling Peggy a total fraud.

378
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, the TMZ article, it was like a bomber gone off.

379
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 4: It was the first public announcement that Peggy was stealing.

380
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: And Peggy responds publicly accusing Dennis of lying. Dennis Rodman

381
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: is out more than a million dollars at this point,

382
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 1: and according to his manager at the time, Peggy's theft

383
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: was insanely egregious.

384
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Speaker 4: Dennis's agency within Dennis a wire of ninety thousand dollars

385
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 4: at like, say, ten thirty in the morning. By three

386
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 4: o'clock the same day, all ninety thousand had swept out

387
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 4: of his account, and it shows up in Peggy's account.

388
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Speaker 5: I mean all of it.

389
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 4: She wouldn't even leave him a couple hundred dollars for

390
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 4: a loaf of bread.

391
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Speaker 5: I mean she took all of it.

392
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Speaker 1: But the hardest blow and the biggest betrayal comes when

393
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: Dennis finds out that Elkin, his road manager and best friend,

394
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: who he thought was Peggy's brother, is actually her son.

395
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: Dennis's manager at the time remembers Dennis's pain and anguish

396
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: when that brother's son revelation came to light.

397
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Speaker 4: I think it was devastating for Dennis emotionally.

398
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 5: I think it was devastating.

399
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 4: He had so much faith and trust in Peggy and

400
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 4: Elkin and they so betrayed his trust.

401
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 5: I just think he was really hurt by this.

402
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 3: I believe that Elkin was her brother at the time.

403
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: Remember Sean tell Cohen. She worked as Peggy's assistant for

404
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: a time, and early on she witnesses a major, major

405
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: crack in that whole brother sister story that Peggy and

406
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: Elkin are telling.

407
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: We happened to go out and go party one day

408
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: and Elkie and I stayed up later than everybody else,

409
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: and we were just talking very drunk drunk, and he

410
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 3: said something something my mom and I kind of like

411
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: perked up and I was like, wait, wait, wait what

412
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: And he's like, we don't talk our family business. You

413
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 3: didn't hear that, I said, oh mg, because when I

414
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 3: babysat her kids at a young age, she said that

415
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: they were her ex husband's kids with another person, and

416
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: she just stepped in as a mother. Blah blah blah.

417
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 3: I never had kids. Look at this body I have.

418
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: You know that she said she never had never had kids.

419
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 3: It was crazy, Like, I don't even know how I

420
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: would feel as a kid, and my mom doesn't want

421
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: to claim me like that.

422
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's a mind fuck.

423
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: It's definitely a mind fuck.

424
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Speaker 1: It is like, Yeah, that's the most important relationship you

425
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: have as a as a person, your mother and father. Yes,

426
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: your mother's telling you tell everyone you or my brother, yes,

427
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: and you go along with it. Yes, God, that messes

428
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 1: you up. It has to. And shockingly, it's not the

429
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: first time in Elkin's life where he's pretending to be

430
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: someone other than who he is at his mother, Peggy's insistence.

431
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: Around the man who would become Peggy's fourth husband, Peggy

432
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: has her own son, Elkin pretend to be her nephew

433
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: and implores Elkin to refer to her as Aunt Peggy

434
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: because she's convinced her fourth husband that she doesn't have

435
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: any kids. As you can imagine, that charade doesn't end well.

436
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 9: They started having problems when he found out that I

437
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 9: was actually her son. I lent a slip one day

438
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 9: and we were talking about something I wanted them to

439
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 9: bring me somewhere. I was like, my Mom's gonna bring

440
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 9: me Like it was just a slip of the tongue,

441
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 9: you know. I just wasn't thinking and I came back

442
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 9: and it was a whole issue. I think that was

443
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 9: the hardest pill to swallow. I really do. We would

444
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 9: fight and I would get upset sometimes and it got

445
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 9: me drinking a lot. It's like, am I not good

446
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 9: enough to be your son?

447
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: So, while masquerading as other people at his mom's request

448
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: clearly bothered Elkin, he still knowingly and intentionally pretended to

449
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: be Peggy's brother for years. But when Dennis Rodman and

450
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: his girlfriend at the time, Gigi, find out that Elkin

451
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: is actually Peggy's son, Elkin acts as if he's shocked

452
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: by it too.

453
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 7: But then Elkin, when he was confronted one night when

454
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 7: I was there, he went into, you mean, Peggy my

455
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 7: sister is my mother? Elkin was very angry, very disturbed,

456
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 7: like he had just found out that Peggy was not

457
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 7: a sister like he had thought all these years, and

458
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 7: found out that she was his mother.

459
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: Which completely contradicts what Elkin has said publicly that he

460
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: knowingly went along pretending to be his mother's brother.

461
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 6: So he's in on it, right.

462
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: My buddy Evan Goldstein again, Well, I mean it does

463
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: beg the question if he will go that far and

464
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: pretend to be her brother for years, more than a

465
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: decade by some accounts, what else is he going along with?

466
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: If you're a Dennis Rodman and one day you find

467
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: out that your best friend, this guy who's been your

468
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: road manager, traveling with you to all these places, this

469
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: guy you can fight it in, who you believe to

470
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: be Peggy's brother, and you find out no, they lied,

471
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: he's her son. Like, how do you feel?

472
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 6: Oh my god, that's.

473
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: Almost worse than the money. To me, it's like our

474
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: whole relationship is a lie.

475
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 6: It's the ultimate betrayal because you know, it's not that

476
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 6: she just said it. He was going along with it.

477
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 6: You know, Dennis Rodman confided in this guy. You know,

478
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 6: he shared things. They're partying, they're doing things, you know,

479
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 6: you know, oh, he told him dark secrets. When a

480
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 6: relationship starts with a lie, yeah, and not only that

481
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 6: that is perpetuated, that is continued on.

482
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: It turns into a million, but it just gets worse

483
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: and worse and worse and worse. And when Dennis Rodman

484
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: confronts Elkin about everything about the missing money, about Elkin

485
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: being Peggy's son and not her brother.

486
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 9: We got into a huge fight. The fight was concerning

487
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 9: me and my mother or me and Peggy. We're stealing

488
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 9: all of his money. He called my mother a whore,

489
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 9: so I punched him. I have precuted him. I ain't

490
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 9: seen him since.

491
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: Elkin has insisted time and time again that his mom, Peggy,

492
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: is not the scammers he's accused of being.

493
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 9: Everybody can make a mistake. If I was to invest

494
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 9: your money, unless say Apple went to shits tomorrow. It

495
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 9: looks good now does But we lost all our money,

496
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 9: didn't we? Am I responsible for that? I think she

497
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 9: just put their money in places that weren't good, and

498
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 9: I don't necessarily think it all went in her pocket.

499
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: I think that Elkin is in damage control, and I

500
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 4: don't blame him because this is going to be devastating

501
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 4: for his family, for everybody. I can't speak for what

502
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 4: he did know or didn't know. It just doesn't add up,

503
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense.

504
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: Elkin has stated publicly that other than pretending to be

505
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: Peggy's brother, he did nothing wrong. He didn't steal any

506
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: of Dennis Rodman's money, nor did he help his mother

507
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: defraud Dennis Rodman in any way.

508
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: How could I believe anything you say when you lied

509
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: about this being your.

510
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: Mom Peggy's former assistant again, Chantelle Cohen, Yeah, that's a

511
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: valid I mean, come on, And that's.

512
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: Not a little long No, that's a huge lie, whole

513
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: existence because he wants everyone to know that he didn't

514
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 3: have anything to do with it, and blah blah blah.

515
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: And I'm just like, I want to believe you, because

516
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: I actually like you guys, you know, and I wanted

517
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: to believe it. But it's like, you lied about this.

518
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: What else are you lying about. There's no way that

519
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: you went throughout this whole time not seeing something. Even

520
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: if you feel like you didn't do anything with your mom,

521
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: you've seen things. Come on, come on, you're grown.

522
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman's former manager isn't buying Elkin's explanation either.

523
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 4: Elkin was part of the company that was defraud and clients,

524
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: so that's his burden to carry. I still can't understand

525
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: why he would allow his mother to say that he's

526
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 4: her brother and just allow that to go on.

527
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 5: That to me, it makes everything else. Tanket it to me.

528
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 5: If you're not part of the fraud, why are you

529
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 5: participating in it?

530
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman was the pinnacle for Peggy in her con

531
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: game of chess. He was the king, he was the checkmate,

532
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: and she got to the king by quietly taking out

533
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: a lot of pawns, other professional athletes who never told

534
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: a living soul that Peggy scammed them.

535
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 3: You know, it's an embarrassing situation, and no one wants

536
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: to come out and say anybody, I wasn't watching my

537
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: money and this is what happened. But I feel like

538
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: in love, love love Travis.

539
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: Travis was Peggy's first pro athlete and her first victim.

540
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: If he would have said something, then it wouldn't have

541
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: been such a domino effect.

542
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: Oh, I said the same thing a million percent, because

543
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: victims are ashamed, and what they don't realize is they're

544
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: enabling the con artists to do it again, and do

545
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: it again, and do it again, like until someone stands

546
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: up and goes public, which is hard to do. Yes,

547
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: she gets away again and again and again. It turns

548
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: out the one point two million dollars Peggy tricks out

549
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: of Dennis Rodman is just a hop in the bucket

550
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: compared to the millions and millions of dollars.

551
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: So many millions.

552
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: Peggy scams from a bunch of other professional athletes in

553
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: the plane light of day, and how she manipulates one

554
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: athlete to get the other on board, to get the

555
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: other on board and so on is just a master

556
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: class in confidence trickery. Never occurred to you. She's doing

557
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: this to twenty other.

558
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 10: Oh no, wow, hell no, hell no. And that's why

559
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 10: it was so like once I heard that she was

560
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 10: doing it to other people, and I'm like Dennis Robin,

561
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 10: we hung out with his homeboy, and she used to

562
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 10: brag about these people, and it's like, oh, you was

563
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 10: robbing them too.

564
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: Next time.

565
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 10: On Queen of the Khan, it is what it is,

566
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 10: and it's not nothing you could take back.

567
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: One of Peggy's pro athlete victims reveals a different side

568
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: of Peggy entirely.

569
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 10: She was a cougar. Yeah, cougar?

570
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: Was she flirting with you?

571
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 10: You with somebody that would probably have sex with one

572
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 10: our clients.

573
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying Queen of the con leave us a

574
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: five star review. Reviews, help other listeners find us, and

575
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: by all means click that share button and send Queen

576
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: of the Con to anyone you think might be into it.

577
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: Queen of the Con The Athlete Whisperer is a production

578
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton,

579
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa

580
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein consulting producer

581
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: Trace Shean. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zach Hirsch,

582
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: Edited and mixed by Zach Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbean,

583
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: audio engineer Chris Desmond, studio engineer Graham Gibson. Mastered by

584
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, executive

585
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard. Voice acting by Darnell Baldwin,

586
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: Tyree Saxton, Junior, Courtney, Hettrick Milan Faxis, Jorge Farragut, David Teitelbaum,

587
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: Terina Pouncey, Kim Ganier, Stuart Chait, Teresa Prindle. Statements from

588
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: press reports, public interviews, and from court records were dramatized

589
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: verbatim on this season of Queen of the Khan. B

590
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: e t's American Gangster Trap, Queens TNTs Rich and Shameless,

591
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: CNBC's American Greed, The Guardian, Sports Illustrated, The Times Picky June,

592
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: The Opportunist podcast, victim interviews and countless court records were

593
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: the sources used on this season of Queen of the

594
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: Khan