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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Deth. We have a great

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Speaker 3: episode for you today. We are going to talk about

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Speaker 3: this shocking or not so shocking verdict in the Karen

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Speaker 3: Reed trial that was last week, and we're going to

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Speaker 3: go through this case with a fine tooth comb and

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Speaker 3: give you all of the details that you are dying

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Speaker 3: to know about. We know that some of you are

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Speaker 3: true crime experts and know all the details of this case,

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Speaker 3: and then we know that there's some of you that

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Speaker 3: might have heard her name on the news and don't

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Speaker 3: really know what the story is. And then there's other

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Speaker 3: ones that are like Karen who. So we're going to

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Speaker 3: go through the whole case. I'm going to ask Maria

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Speaker 3: a lot of questions and she's going to go through

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Speaker 3: all of the details, and then we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about what was seen at autopsy, what my opinion is

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Speaker 3: of that, and then what happened at her not one,

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Speaker 3: but two trials. So let's get started. Read Why don't

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Speaker 3: you tell them like who is Karen Reid, where are

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Speaker 3: they from? Why is she in trouble? What happened all right.

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Speaker 1: So this case is just kind of all over the

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Speaker 1: place because it's normal people just like us.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: It's a financial analyst who's Karen Reid, with her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: who's a Boston Police officer, John O'Keefe. They're in their

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Speaker 1: early forties at the time. This occurred in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: two when John died. So we're going to get more

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Speaker 1: into that later, but just a little background on them

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Speaker 1: as a couple. When they were in their early twenties,

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Speaker 1: Karen and John had briefly dated but broke up. Fast

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Speaker 1: forward to twenty twenty. They reconnect on Facebook, which is

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Speaker 1: funny to me, this is sense of any message and

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Speaker 1: start dating after all those years, but they reconnect via

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Speaker 1: Facebook and start dating again. So they're in this relationship

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years, but according to friends and family,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty tumultuous and all over the place, all right.

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Speaker 3: So there's one important thing to know about John because

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Speaker 3: he wasn't a typical just single guy that was in

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Speaker 3: his forties. So do you want to tell them a

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Speaker 3: little bit about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So John's sister tragically passed away from cancer, and

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Speaker 1: then shortly after her husband died from a heart attack,

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Speaker 1: leaving their children to be orphans. So John was kind

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Speaker 1: of seen as this angel because he took custody of

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Speaker 1: his niece and nephew and was raising them.

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Speaker 3: So they're and they're pretty much little kids at this time.

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Speaker 3: So he was dating. I'm just trying to put this

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Speaker 3: all into perspective so we could all relate to it.

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Speaker 3: So he is dating her and has little kids that

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Speaker 3: are essentially he's acting as the father for these children.

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Speaker 3: They live at his house, and he was with her

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Speaker 3: for a couple of years, so she was around them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's around them. She's seemingly pretty integrated into their life.

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Speaker 1: I mean she definitely wasn't living there. They weren't getting married.

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Speaker 1: So but when you're dating some and you're in a

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Speaker 1: serious relationship and you have children, i mean you're going

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Speaker 1: to cross paths.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so okay, So what happened? So they're dating and

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Speaker 3: they're fighting all the time. Everybody agrees with this, and like, still,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't make anything suspicious because people or relationships fight

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Speaker 3: all the time. So what happened leading up to John's death.

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Speaker 1: Well, before everybody gets all like the brother and sister

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Speaker 1: died too, it's nothing nefarious. In this case, it was

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Speaker 1: genuine natural causes. It's not like Lori Valo, where there's

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Speaker 1: multiple deaths in one family and we should look into

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Speaker 1: it like this is purely the sister had cancer, the

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Speaker 1: husband had a heart attack, and then her brother unfortunately

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Speaker 1: passed away, which we're going to touch on the details

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Speaker 1: leading up until John's death, they weren't having the best relationship.

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Speaker 1: It was tumultuous and all over the place. They had

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Speaker 1: recently gone on a trip to Aruba, and according to

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Speaker 1: friends who were on the trip, John had innocently hugged

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Speaker 1: a female friend on the trip, which sent Karen into

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Speaker 1: a total jealous rage and tizzy, and she did not

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Speaker 1: like that at all. And then the day before his death,

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Speaker 1: we see all these text messages coming out where they

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Speaker 1: were seemingly having a fight. She had told him, you

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Speaker 1: really hurt me this time, and he replied, things haven't

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Speaker 1: been great between us for a while. Ever, consider that,

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Speaker 1: so throughout the day she proceeds to continue texting him

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Speaker 1: and calling him, but he keeps saying it's not a

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Speaker 1: good time, and later on that doesn't look so great

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Speaker 1: for her. But I don't think in most cases, when

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Speaker 1: you're having a fight with your significant other that you're

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Speaker 1: gonna that you think that's gonna come up at your

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Speaker 1: trial and not look great for you.

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Speaker 3: God, I know, right, the reading of the text messages

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Speaker 3: in all of these cases, you're just like, nobody ever

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Speaker 3: thinks that that's going to happen to them, of course,

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Speaker 3: so that's always embarrassing. I mean, think about if somebody

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Speaker 3: just took your phone and started reading your text messages,

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Speaker 3: especially with your your partner or your husband, wife, whatever,

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Speaker 3: it's it's a little weird. It is weird.

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Speaker 1: And I said that with the Justin Baldonian Blake Lively

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Speaker 1: case when he was trying to subpoena Billake Li Ryan

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Speaker 1: Reynolds text.

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Speaker 3: No, he just wanted that apparently he can get he

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Speaker 3: could get Taylor Swift and Blake Lively's text messages, which is,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, if they get released, that's gonna be

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Speaker 3: some juicy shit right there. But all right, so let's

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Speaker 3: get back to this. So these text messages she's sending,

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Speaker 3: she's just kind of like you're an asshole, basically, like

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Speaker 3: back and forth, and they're fighting back and forth. So

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Speaker 3: at some point, even though he's not taking her calls,

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Speaker 3: like like anybody else. They decide to like make up

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Speaker 3: and they're gonna hang out later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something in the details of this case. I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of confused about what happened between the all day.

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Speaker 3: Long, everybody that fights, like it's just like that's what happens.

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Speaker 1: So around nine o'clock, John's out with some friends, so

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Speaker 1: some of the key players in this case. He meets

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Speaker 1: up at the bar with his friend Brian Albert, who's

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Speaker 1: a former Boston Police officer, Brian's wife Nicole, her sister

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Speaker 1: Jennifer McCabe, and of friend Brian Higgins, who's an ATF agent.

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Speaker 1: So they're all gonna come up later in this trial,

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Speaker 1: but those are the people that are there at the

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Speaker 1: bar with them this night. Karen meets up with John

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Speaker 1: and the friends at the bar on CCTV. You can

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Speaker 1: see them having a pretty good time. Everybody's drinking. It's

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Speaker 1: the middle of a snowstorm, so everybody's probably awful work

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Speaker 1: and just enjoying their night. So then we get to

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Speaker 1: midnight and the Alberts invite everyone back to their home.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's summarize where we're at right now. So

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Speaker 3: we have Karen and her cop boyfriend are going back

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Speaker 3: to the house of a retired cop and his wife

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Speaker 3: and her sister and this other guy, Brian is anyone.

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Speaker 3: So they're going in separate cars, correct, Yeah, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So John seen leaving the bar with a glass in

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Speaker 1: his hand, which is important because that's gonna come up later.

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Speaker 1: But he has a glass from the bar and he

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Speaker 1: gets into Karen's car.

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Speaker 3: So round twelve, you're allowed to do I thought you

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Speaker 3: weren't allowed to do that. I mean, it's stealing, but

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Speaker 3: like no, but I mean, just in Vegas you're allowed

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Speaker 3: to walk around with a drink. But that's like the

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Speaker 3: only place in America that you could do that.

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Speaker 1: Right, You're allowed to drink and drive. It doesn't say before.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not saying now.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying it's like kind of unusual to leave

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Speaker 3: a bar with the with the drink. Still, yeah, but

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Speaker 3: that's what drunk people do. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So we're only mentioning that part because it comes up later.

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Speaker 1: So at twelve fifteen, John texs Jennifer McCabe asking for

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Speaker 1: the address. Ten minutes later, john cell phone data then

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Speaker 1: pings him at the house, and at that point Karen

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Speaker 1: claims they did leave the bar and go to the

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Speaker 1: Albert's home, but at that point she had asked if

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Speaker 1: it asked John if he could go up to the

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Speaker 1: door and make sure it was okay they were there,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think she was on that friendly of

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Speaker 1: terms with the Alberts, so she wanted this is according

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Speaker 1: to Karen, that she wanted to make sure it was

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Speaker 1: okay they were.

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Speaker 3: There all right. So in my opinion, and like my

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Speaker 3: opinion is whatever, But if I'm at the bar and

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Speaker 3: someone invites me to their house afterwards, we're gonna get

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Speaker 3: in the car and we're going to drive, and then

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Speaker 3: whoever's driving is going to park the car, and it

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Speaker 3: will always be gay because I don't. I don't drive, right,

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Speaker 3: So okay, Gay parks the car. We both get out.

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Speaker 3: I get out of my side, he gets out his side,

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Speaker 3: and then we go to the house. Like to me,

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Speaker 3: it's just very unusual for me to be like, can

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Speaker 3: you just like as because they're my age, right, But

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Speaker 3: they'll be like, can you just can make sure it's

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Speaker 3: okay at the party, But think about it, they're fighting

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Speaker 3: all the time, well, and they're friends, they're all drunk.

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Speaker 1: They're all drunk. His friends probably don't like her. They

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Speaker 1: might know somebody might have mentioned that they were fighting

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Speaker 1: earlier that day and they were like, why are you

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Speaker 1: bringing your naggy girlfriend out to drink.

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Speaker 3: It's just it. You have to agree that this is

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Speaker 3: just kind of bizarre behavior for people that are almost

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Speaker 3: fifty years old.

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Speaker 1: I think you think it is because you don't drink,

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Speaker 1: but I think this is an average night after and

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Speaker 1: really it is pretty standard really for people that drink. Like,

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Speaker 1: obviously you should not be drinking and driving, but I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people go out and then they

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Speaker 1: want to continue their night at somebody's house. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: so you're saying that part's not weird. I think that

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Speaker 1: part's a little weird. But whatever, So continue what happened.

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Speaker 1: So she says that he got out of the car.

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Speaker 1: So Karen claims they pulled up to the house, John

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Speaker 1: got out of the car and was supposed to go

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Speaker 1: knock on the door and make sure it was okay

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Speaker 1: they were there, and then signal back to her that

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Speaker 1: it was okay for them, and then she would come inside.

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Speaker 1: So she says, she's sitting in her car scrolling on

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Speaker 1: the phone and she waited about ten to fifteen minutes,

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Speaker 1: and she never heard anything back from him. So she

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Speaker 1: got really pissed because she had to pee really bad,

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Speaker 1: and she drove back to his house, which was only

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Speaker 1: like a couple of minutes down the road, and then

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Speaker 1: she starts leaving him these incredibly angry voicemails.

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Speaker 3: Well because according to her, she thinks that he went

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Speaker 3: inside and was like f that broad like and just

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Speaker 3: kept partying and didn't come back to get her.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so let's stop and reevaluate, like what's happening so far,

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Speaker 1: So the whole day before they're arguing via text, something

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Speaker 1: happens where they're fine enough to meet up, and then

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Speaker 1: you add alcohol into the situation, and then you add

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Speaker 1: these people in the mix that maybe aren't all getting along,

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Speaker 1: So then you're at twelve thirty six. At this point

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Speaker 1: is when the first voicemail comes through. Karen leaves John

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Speaker 1: a voicemail that says, I fucking hate you, and then

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Speaker 1: a couple minutes later, John, I'm here with your fucking

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Speaker 1: kids and nobody knows where the fuck you are, you

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Speaker 1: fucking pervert, And then she says, John, I'm going home.

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Speaker 1: I cannot babysit your niece. You're fucking using me right now,

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Speaker 1: you're fucking another girl. You're a fucking loser. Fuck yourself.

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Speaker 3: So this is.

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Speaker 1: Within an hour she's leaving him all of these voicemails.

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Speaker 1: Oh so, at one thirty am, Jennifer McCabe and other

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Speaker 1: friends leave the Albert home. They say they go home,

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Speaker 1: they don't notice anything unusual. Around five am, Karen then

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Speaker 1: calls Jennifer and says, John never came home. Did you

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Speaker 1: see him? So?

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Speaker 3: Then John? So then Karen, and you're saying, like she

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Speaker 3: wasn't really like great friends with this gen person.

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Speaker 1: No, like they were acquaintances. But okay, and maybe she

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Speaker 1: only it wasn't her best friend. And I think she

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Speaker 1: was probably only comfortable reaching out to her because they

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Speaker 1: had just seen each other hours before.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So then at this point Karen calls John's friend Carrie,

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Speaker 1: and she says John's dead. This is according to Carrie,

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Speaker 1: And then Carry picks Karen and Jennifer up. So if

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Speaker 1: you want to pause right there, and you know, everybody's

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Speaker 1: still kind of drunk. At this point, Karen seems like

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Speaker 1: a pretty dramatic person. Of course, when you realize John

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Speaker 1: is dead. Later you think that's extremely suspicious that she

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Speaker 1: made that proclamation.

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Speaker 3: But is it for the dramatic person? Did did did

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Speaker 3: they say? How like the context in which it was said,

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Speaker 3: because like think about this, Let's just put yourself in

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Speaker 3: this situation, like Ricky. Ricky is pretty normal, Like you're

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Speaker 3: married to somebody, you know how they act. Let's say

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Speaker 3: Ricky was supposed to be home at twelve o'clock and

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Speaker 3: it's like five in the morning, you can't talk to him.

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Speaker 3: You would call me and be like, oh my god, Mom,

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Speaker 3: he hasn't called me. I know he's dead. I know

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Speaker 3: he's dead.

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Speaker 1: Like right, this is just like a meltdown picturing it

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Speaker 1: because where dramatic Italian women and this is.

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Speaker 3: Exactly how like yeah, like that's what I'm saying. So like,

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Speaker 3: how was it said? It wasn't like, oh, he's he's dead,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure, Like how was it said? Was it frantic?

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Speaker 3: Was it like I just know something's wrong? Because because

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Speaker 3: it for to Karen's defense, like if she she knows

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Speaker 3: that he loves the kids and stuff, and he wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have left the kids with no one watching him and

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Speaker 3: he didn't get back to her, and even though they

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Speaker 3: fought and stuff, they always made up really quick whatever.

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Speaker 3: It was very unusual for her to not hear back

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Speaker 3: from him at all, and nobody knew where he was,

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Speaker 3: so of course everyone's mind goes to that, that's not

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Speaker 3: just like a Karen Reid thing. That's like in everybody thing, Right.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's unusual she would have said something

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Speaker 1: like that. I mean, I just read the voicemails she

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Speaker 1: had left him, and clearly she was an extremely dramatic person,

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Speaker 1: So I don't think it's that far fetch that she

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Speaker 1: of course immediately went to he's dead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't like listen, like, you know, Gabe's

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Speaker 3: a firefighter, right, Like, if I don't hear for three hours,

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Speaker 3: I'm just kind of like, it's very unusual for him

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Speaker 3: not to text me right back, and then I start

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Speaker 3: going down, Oh my god, he's her or something's wrong.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's like normal shit people do. Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that's bizarre, but they really tried

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Speaker 1: to use that against her later. So this is around

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Speaker 1: five AM, when she's calling Jennifer and John's friend Carrie

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Speaker 1: to help look for him because nobody knows where he

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Speaker 1: is at this point. So then an hour later they're

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Speaker 1: all the three of them are driving around looking for John.

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Speaker 1: They pull up to the Albert's house and then they

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Speaker 1: see John laying in the snow in their front yard, unresponsive.

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Speaker 3: And what time was this?

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Speaker 2: Again?

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Speaker 3: Sorry, this is at six am? Okay, so it's it's

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Speaker 3: what what time of year was this? This was it?

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Speaker 3: Obviously it was so so it was probably just just

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Speaker 3: getting light out, so you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 3: it's it's not right? Is it dark at six?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: It's it's dark. So when they approached the scene and

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Speaker 3: they see him lying in the snow out front of

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Speaker 3: the house of the albert This is now the the

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Speaker 3: retired Boston Cops house, they all went, yeah, let's say that.

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Speaker 3: So what what did they do? They they ran out

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Speaker 3: of the car right away, Like what happened?

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Speaker 1: So the friends Carrie and Jennifer are saying, Karen got

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Speaker 1: out of the car, she immediately saw him laying there

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Speaker 1: and she's so they were saying that it seemed like

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Speaker 1: she knew he was there by how quick it was

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Speaker 1: when they approached the house, which seemed suspicious to them. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what was it obvious that he was laying there,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, I feel like it would be obvious

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Speaker 1: to see a grown man laying on a white blanket

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Speaker 1: of snow. I don't know, like, I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: that nuts, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, So they thought that it was a little weird.

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Speaker 3: And now is it possible that in Karen's mind that

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Speaker 3: she was thinking like that it could have been possible

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Speaker 3: that she hit him and that maybe she really was

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Speaker 3: looking there or is that just kind of like because

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Speaker 3: you know, you said, you're saying according to the friends,

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Speaker 3: but like they we already know they didn't really like her,

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Speaker 3: so they're obviously going to be like saying whatever to

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Speaker 3: get her in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, this is what I'm getting at. There's clearly

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Speaker 1: two sides of this story because things just at this

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Speaker 1: point we have to go through both scenarios that both

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Speaker 1: people take us through because they have a completely different

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Speaker 1: series of events than she does. So, according to the friends,

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Speaker 1: they pull up to the albertom Karen immediately sees him

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Speaker 1: on the ground, almost as if she knows he's laying there,

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Speaker 1: and then says, I hit him.

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Speaker 3: I hit him.

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Speaker 1: But when Karen's retelling this series of events, she said,

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Speaker 1: I had a feeling and I saw him laying there

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Speaker 1: and I said I hit him question mark, like she

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Speaker 1: was questioning could I have hit him? Not saying she

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Speaker 1: did hit him. Okay, so that is something they also

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Speaker 1: try to use against which I.

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Speaker 3: Think, you know what, maybe we could talk about that after,

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Speaker 3: but okay, I won't say that until after we go

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Speaker 3: through everything. So when they approach his body, is he dead.

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Speaker 1: No, he's unresponsive, but he's seemingly still alive. So they

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Speaker 1: called nine one one.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So they call nine one one and they bring

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Speaker 3: him to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: But he is pronounced dead two hours later.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so what immediately after that? So this is this

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Speaker 3: is only seven and a half eight hours after they

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Speaker 3: were last scene together. So she's she's his current girlfriend,

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Speaker 3: so she goes to the hospital with him.

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Speaker 1: She goes to the hospital and she's acting so erratic

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Speaker 1: there that she's put on a really a psychiatric hold,

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Speaker 1: so she doesn't even know he's dead at first when

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Speaker 1: everybody else finds out because she's in a psychiatric hold.

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Speaker 1: And so for this she's texting her dead and saying,

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Speaker 1: again I think this is just being dramatic. John's dead.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to live because she didn't know what

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Speaker 1: was going on.

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Speaker 3: So I'm actually curious for people who work in emergency

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Speaker 3: rooms how often things like this happen, because I think

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Speaker 3: especially I always think about all of these stories we

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Speaker 3: talk about when you approach one of your loved ones

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Speaker 3: who's either dead or you find someone unresponsive and they're

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Speaker 3: bleeding or anything. I imagine that it's so traumatic that

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Speaker 3: that people completely like lose their shit, you know, because

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Speaker 3: I know I would. I would, I don't. I don't

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Speaker 3: know that i'd have to go to the psych word,

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Speaker 3: but I know I would be. I would be shocked

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Speaker 3: and panicked and freaking out. So or is it because

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Speaker 3: she she she had this overwhelming physiological response because she

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Speaker 3: thought that she was partially or completely responsible for it.

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Speaker 1: Or is it because her BAC at the time she

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Speaker 1: was at the hospital was point zero nine?

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Speaker 3: Like she's drunk when it so happening. So they bring

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Speaker 3: her to a psychiatric for a psychiatric evaluation, and at

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Speaker 3: that time they take her blood and that's when they

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Speaker 3: find out that her alcohol level is that high. So

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Speaker 3: what was it?

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Speaker 1: A point zero nine? Okay, which is at eight o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the morning roughly, that's what it is.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and did they ask her when the last time

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Speaker 3: that she had a drink was or she I'm just

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Speaker 3: I'm just curious because that is actually the legal or

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Speaker 3: the limit where you could get pulled over and charge

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Speaker 3: with a d. So if she was that drunk at

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Speaker 3: that time in the morning and she stopped drinking, let's

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Speaker 3: say at midnight or whenever she went home, I mean

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Speaker 3: she was like piss ass drunk, unless she was drinking

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Speaker 3: up until like all night, which is a possibility because

379
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Speaker 3: she was stressed out because she didn't know where he

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Speaker 3: was and she she still hadn't gone to bed at night, right.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, in my mind, there's a couple of scenarios.

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Speaker 1: So she is drunk at this time at point zero nine,

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Speaker 1: So there the toxicologist is saying, that would have placed

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Speaker 1: her at being at point two ninety two at the

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Speaker 1: time she dropped John off, which.

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Speaker 3: Is is pissed ass drunk. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I also could see a scenario. I mean, she she

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Speaker 1: admittedly was drinking at the bars, and there's footage of

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Speaker 1: her drinking. But I was saying during the trial, like,

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Speaker 1: how did they know she was really having alcohol because

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Speaker 1: they didn't take her blood at the time she dropped

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Speaker 1: off John, and I don't think she was the person

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Speaker 1: driving in the morning. I believe the friend Carrie was

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Speaker 1: the one driving at five am when they were looking

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Speaker 1: for him. So like, how did they know she didn't

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Speaker 1: come home from the bar and drink in between dropping

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Speaker 1: him off and that search in the morning? To me,

398
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Speaker 1: that point nine two nine to two BAC is speculative

399
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Speaker 1: because they don't know if she was at that level

400
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Speaker 1: when she was driving earlier.

401
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Speaker 3: Well, regardless, she's still at this time of the morning,

402
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Speaker 3: she's she's drunk, so.

403
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Speaker 1: She's drunk dru regardless of what she's drunk at this time,

404
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: So like that doesn't matter. So I'm saying, like, for

405
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Speaker 1: the psykehold, I think, like I'm gonna just keep reiterating

406
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Speaker 1: this clearly, I think she's an extremely dramatic person. So

407
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Speaker 1: you have that they're fighting, they're not in a good place,

408
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: and then you add alcohol on top of it, and

409
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Speaker 1: he's unconscious. She doesn't know what's going on at the

410
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Speaker 1: point of her cycold, she doesn't even know he's officially

411
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Speaker 1: died yet, so of course she's freaking out. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I am curious if this happens with a lot of people.

413
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Speaker 1: I mean, I would certainly not be okay if this

414
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Speaker 1: was my husband.

415
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure. So she had so she gets

416
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Speaker 3: so she's herself gets a medical evaluation at the hospital then,

417
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 3: which is interesting actually because if she if she kept

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Speaker 3: her shit together and wasn't freaking out like, there would

419
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Speaker 3: have really been no indication for them to take her

420
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Speaker 3: alcohol level at that time. And so she's there, when

421
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Speaker 3: when did it? At one point was it like, Okay,

422
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Speaker 3: he got there because somebody hit him or Karen hit

423
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Speaker 3: him or whatever that he ended up there, Like where

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Speaker 3: did it turn from she's at the hospital with her

425
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Speaker 3: boyfriend that's unconscious, to now she's a suspect in his death.

426
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Speaker 1: So she was only arrested a couple days later. So

427
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Speaker 1: this was pretty much the leading theory. And because of

428
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Speaker 1: her saying I hit him, they were taking the friend's

429
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 1: account of what happened. They were only zoning in on

430
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Speaker 1: her because she was the last person to have seen

431
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Speaker 1: him alive. Allegedly, we don't ever have confirmation that he

432
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Speaker 1: went in the Albert's home. They're all claiming he never

433
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Speaker 1: went in the house and they never saw him after

434
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 1: they left the bar, even though he's dead on their

435
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: front lawn, everybody says it didn't see a.

436
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 3: Police officer in an investigation is almost like all of

437
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: these things I talk about with celebrity deaths and the

438
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 3: VIP thing, because it's just not it's not handled the

439
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 3: same exact way you would do a stranger kind of

440
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 3: you know, and then things are skipped and things are

441
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 3: not done properly. And I mean, obviously in this case

442
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 3: there's a lot of suspicion that there's evidence tampering, right,

443
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: so we we'll get into that later. But so when

444
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 3: you say it's botched, like what happened, they show up.

445
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: And so if I'm a cop and I have no

446
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 3: idea what cops do, really, for the most part, I

447
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: don't really ever deal with that. But if I'm a

448
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 3: cop and I show up to a person's house that

449
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 3: there was a dead body found on their front lawn,

450
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 3: the first thing I'm going to do is go up

451
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 3: to the house, interview who lives at the house, find

452
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 3: out what happened, and go in the house and like

453
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: look around and see what the hell's going on.

454
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So the investigating departments in this case was the

455
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 1: Canton Police Department, which is the town they were in,

456
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: and the Massachusetts State Police. I'm kind of confused why

457
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: the state police was involved at all.

458
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 3: But and he was a Boston City cop.

459
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: Correct, yes, but they're friends with like other cops and

460
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: other apartments.

461
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 3: That happens.

462
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the lead investigator on this case was Trooper

463
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: Michael Proctor, who was friends with the Alberts the home

464
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: in which this this guy's found dead. Right, So when

465
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: they start investigating this case, they don't close off the scene.

466
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: They never go into the Albert's home.

467
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 3: That Alberts never even come outside. I'm sorry, if there is.

468
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: A dead person on my lawn, I'm going out there,

469
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: let alone my friend.

470
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 3: This is so ridiculous. So this guy comes to investigate

471
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 3: the death and he knows the homeowner and doesn't go

472
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 3: like you mean to tell me. He didn't even go

473
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 3: in the house to pee or anything home on that

474
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 3: he didn't get and.

475
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: He didn't think it was a conflict of interest in

476
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: any way. No, not at all, So why would it

477
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: be like So the Alberts never come out even though

478
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: their friend is dead on their front lawn. They never

479
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: close off the scene, and then they collect blood samples

480
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: in red solo cups and then put those samples into

481
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 1: paper grocery bags. What was anybody thinking?

482
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: I am confused because let's say, for example, and God,

483
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: I hope that I'm wrong with this, because this could

484
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 3: open up a whole can of worms for other investigations

485
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 3: these people have done. But let's say so Michael Procter.

486
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: Is a.

487
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: Massachusetts State Police officer. You're saying, yes, okay, So like

488
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: let's say any rando that he doesn't know they get

489
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 3: the same as ac phone call. Why don't they have

490
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: the proper tools with them to collect evidence? That's what

491
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 3: is blowing everybody. That's how they were collecting all evidence

492
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: for all homicide investigations with red solo cups and grocery

493
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: bags like it. Just it's so bizarre to me that

494
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 3: they don't have that kind of kit with them. Now.

495
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: I don't know how smaller departments work or whatever, because

496
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 3: I would think that that that would be a crime

497
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 3: scene investigation thing that willn't even it doesn't matter how

498
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: small the department is.

499
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: That would never be acceptable in twenty twenty two when

500
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: this happens.

501
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: Now, I understand that I'm just I just am trying

502
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 3: to figure out because I only really know the way

503
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: things are done in like a big city like Philadelphia

504
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 3: or something where so I'm just wondering, like what employee,

505
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 3: I guess I would say is because you have to

506
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: be trained in collecting evidence like that crime scene evidence,

507
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: getting it in such a way that you're not having

508
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 3: contamination and things like that. So I'm wondering, like what

509
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 3: person is in charge of doing this and if so

510
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: I would assume I guess we should never assume, but

511
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 3: you would think that they would have this whole entire

512
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 3: kit in their car at all times because they're getting

513
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 3: called to potential scenes all the time and you're going

514
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: to have to collect evidence and if not, you call

515
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: the proper person to show up to collect it properly.

516
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 3: That's why I'm just so confused, like why there would

517
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: ever be a situation. And furthermore so, they have like

518
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: a stack of red solar cups in their in their

519
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: police vehicle where they get the solo cups from the house, right,

520
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 3: Like I actually think they got them from a neighbor's house,

521
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: so they were just like, hey, we need to collect

522
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 3: some like we're out of sample cups.

523
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: We just are gonna use these as backup, like it

524
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: was totally negligent.

525
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and like you're you're a cop, right, so

526
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 3: you know that when someone dies under suspicious circumstances that

527
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: this is eventually going to go to court. So maybe

528
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: if you're out of specimen cups, you just make a

529
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: call and say, like, hey, can so and so drive

530
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: me these things because I need them. There's a lot

531
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: of this is outrageous.

532
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, this is why this case starts getting insane

533
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: because you have two sides of the story, and then

534
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: you start off with the very first step. The investigation

535
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: is botched from start to finish. You have major conflict

536
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: of interest with the officers involved in the investigation. I'm sorry,

537
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: but it's not like even just this one guy showed

538
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: up to take all these samples. You have multiple officers

539
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: at this scene doing this and participating in this. Let's

540
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: just say, regardless, if this was a normal person that

541
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: was found dead and the police showed up already not

542
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: following protocol, correct, But when a police officers found dead,

543
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: are these not considered like extra high profile cases. I mean,

544
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: this guy was forty six years old, active duty police.

545
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: Active duty police officer, exactly.

546
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: And this isn't considered a high profile case with extra

547
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: steps that should be taken.

548
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: So what one interesting thing I remember when I was

549
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: looking up the case of this, So when I was

550
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: at the Philly Medical Examiner's office, I had an autopsy

551
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 3: of a cop that got shot, and I was really

552
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: kind of impressed and also just really intrigued by the whole,

553
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: the whole thing of it, because it was it was

554
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: like his body was brought to the Medical Examiner's office

555
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: and there was a lot of cops that came in

556
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 3: and were watching the autopsy, and that was clear that

557
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: he was shot and he was the victim of a

558
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: police violence, you know what I mean, Like he he

559
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: was killed by somebody in front of everybody. But in

560
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 3: this particular case, when there's police officers that may potential

561
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: that at least were at the scene, I feel like

562
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: it's a conflict of interest for police officers to be

563
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 3: at that autopsy because they would potentially have say and

564
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: influence at the autopsy because they were at because they

565
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: were at the scene of the crime. Literally one of

566
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: them lives at the scene of the crime. So I'm

567
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: not I just I don't really I don't really understand,

568
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: like what in the hell. These people were thinking, it's

569
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: just it's it's out of control.

570
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: Oh right there, all that evidence collected is inadmissible because

571
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: it was mishandled.

572
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: So why so? And they their reasoning was they were

573
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: out of specimen cops like that. I don't think they

574
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: ever gave a reason.

575
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: They were just kind of like, I don't know what happened.

576
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 3: Like so, if you had a family member who died

577
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: in that jurisdiction, wouldn't you be questioning everything if this

578
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: is how they handle one of their own.

579
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: So I think this is contributing to the sensationalism of

580
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: this case because it's opening this Pandora's box of all

581
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: this corruption between all these police departments.

582
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: So so at the time of the autopsy, there were

583
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: the state police detectives watched John O'Keefe's autopsy, which I

584
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: think is a huge conflict of interest because the lead

585
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: proctor guy was friends with the person that owned the house.

586
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 3: I mean, just it's being considered a suspect. But like

587
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: how I listen, they don't have to be a suspect,

588
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: but that was the goddamn scene of the crime. It's

589
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 3: just outrageous. It's a conflict of interest because the person

590
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: died on their front lawn. Okay, end of story. It

591
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if they weren't involved or not. It's just

592
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: kind of like, let's just keep this separated because that

593
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: would make the most sense here. Okay, So god, this

594
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: is this story is just so in detailed. So at

595
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: this time, obviously they are thinking Karen Reid is some

596
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: how involved, because they go to her house and arrest her.

597
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: Oh, they're not thinking she's involved. They're like she's done it,

598
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: Like they already are, like she must have done a

599
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: three point turn and hit them, and she was so

600
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: drunk that she definitely killed them, Like this is the

601
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: only theory.

602
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: Immediately, so within a couple of days of his death,

603
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 3: they're at her door to arrest her. Now this is

604
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: and who So this is Canton police.

605
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know you don't you don't go in

606
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: the house or interview like anybody else really that was there.

607
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: Then that you just assume the one person is the

608
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: only person that could have done it, not anybody else, right,

609
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: just her because they were fighting. This is where the

610
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: fighting starts not looking good because they were like she

611
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: was fighting and she was drunk driving, therefore she must

612
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: have done it now, like, I don't know, there was

613
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: like five to ten other people at this house at

614
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: this time.

615
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: We're not we're not even gonna look into it at all.

616
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

617
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: All right, So they show up at her house and

618
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: arrest her and charge her with So she's arrested February first,

619
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: which is only a couple of days later, she charged

620
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: with manslaughter, and then she's accused of motor vehicle homicide

621
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: and leaving the scene of a deadly crash. Fast forward

622
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: to June of twenty twenty two. The charges then get

623
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: up to second degree murder after the circumstances of the

624
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: drunk driving and her angry texts and voicemails come through.

625
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: This is such a stretch, So it literally goes from

626
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: stretch she hit him drunk driving to she intentionally murdered

627
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: him while.

628
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: He said like she's basically saying, you're an asshole, You're

629
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: you're looking at other girls. I didn't hear anything like, motherfucker,

630
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: I'm gonna come kill you right like this, Personally I did.

631
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 3: Was there anything that was like I'm going to hurt.

632
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: You, not to my recollection, and personally, I think if

633
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: you if she did willingly or knowingly kill him. She

634
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't then go home and then start leaving him angry voicemails,

635
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: because don't you think your anger would be resolved by

636
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: taking that person's life. You wouldn't then proceed to leave

637
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: their dead body like all these angry voicemails for them

638
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: to never hear.

639
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: Listen, Like, there's been plenty of times where people like

640
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: to do stuff like that so they could throw off

641
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: cops and their investigation to be like I I called

642
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 3: him and left him a voicemail. I couldn't have thought

643
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 3: he was dead. But she like, she gives me crazy

644
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: bitch vibes, but not like Jodyarius crazy bitch vibes. Like

645
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 3: Jody Arius was like manipulative and like and like slimy

646
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 3: and and you would expect her to do something like

647
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: that because but I, Karen, Read's just kind of like

648
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 3: everybody give me that exact vibe.

649
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: Everybody knows a couple in their life that loves screaming

650
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: at each other and having these horrible fights and then

651
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,959
Speaker 1: going home and having like the most.

652
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: Aggressive makeup sex.

653
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: Like just everybody knows somebody that acts like this, and

654
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: this is the type of couple they seem.

655
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: One hundred percent one hundred percent. So so she gets

656
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 3: arrested and charged with all these things, and so I

657
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: guess where should we start now with with her trial.

658
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she posted one hundred thousand dollars bond and

659
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty. So through the duration of these trials,

660
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: she is not sitting in jail like she's out. She's

661
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: living at her house while these trials are happening.

662
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 3: So that's a little I mean, I guess we hear

663
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: this from time to time, but like if you're being

664
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: accused of killing a person, like you could just pay

665
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 3: and get out and be.

666
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: Free, Well, it depends on this circumstances. And as we

667
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: know from other stories we cover on the show, apparently

668
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: you could do really egregious things and have bonds. So

669
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: I think for this they might have considered it an

670
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: isolated event and she was potentially not a threat to society.

671
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: So trial one starts on April twenty nine, twenty twenty four.

672
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: So we start off with, you know, the prosecution's going

673
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: really hard on the points we talked about earlier, with

674
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: you know, the cops saying that she must have hit him,

675
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: because she claims she did hit him. According to the

676
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: friends and that she was drunk driving. But the defense

677
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: argued that this was a mass cover up for the

678
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: police departments, which I think wasn't that good of a

679
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: strategy to go into that first.

680
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: Well, but they're right, I mean, listen.

681
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: There's definitely corruption, but going straight into this is a

682
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: mass cover up.

683
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: You got to that. Yeah, And that's and I don't

684
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 3: I mean when I say they're right, I don't mean

685
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: that it's a cover up. I'm not one hundred percent

686
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 3: sure if I think that although you're either the dumbest

687
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 3: person ever or you or you're I almost I almost

688
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 3: rather it be a cover up because people just can't

689
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 3: be this stupid, you know what I mean.

690
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Like, but people are that stupid, Like this is the problem.

691
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: You want to think a police department would actually take

692
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: the proper sample cups and collect blood samples, but no,

693
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: they took red solo like the.

694
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: Cups are the least of their problems. But that's concerning

695
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: that it started there the house. The house. Not going

696
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: into the house is the is really to me that

697
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: the it's a it's a flaring like red flag, like

698
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: it's just it's something is just not right. And I

699
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: don't blame the defense for being like, this is a

700
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory, because on what planet, what justification would they

701
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 3: even have for that? That's that's not protocol, even a

702
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: little bit like, no, it's not. So.

703
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: The defense's theory was that during trial one that they

704
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: thought John was beaten up inside the Albert home or

705
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: attacked by their dog and then left outside to die.

706
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: So a really alarming piece of evidence that was uncovered

707
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: during this trial was that Jennifer McCabe, who was Nicole

708
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Albert's sister, who was there that night, at two o'clock

709
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,240
Speaker 1: in the morning, googled how long to Die in the cold,

710
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: But she says she didn't see anything, and it was

711
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: it was not about that. She said Karen asked her

712
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: to google how long to die in the cold when

713
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: they found him at six o'clock in the morning, and

714
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: she happened to google that on a tab she had

715
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: opened at two am. And technology experts are saying, that's

716
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: not how that works.

717
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: Oh okay, So so there were people that actually testified

718
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 3: that said that that's so what is she so she's

719
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 3: trying to say Karen asked her to google it, and

720
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: she opened like a safari window that she already had

721
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 3: opened in her phone and that's when she put it in. Yeah,

722
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 3: so and that window was open. They can't tell that.

723
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: But they can, which is why they said, that's not

724
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: how that works.

725
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I was gonna say, like, because when you

726
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 3: originally open the tab, it should be on a web

727
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: page that's like clocked at that time, and then the

728
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: next time you touch it when you go.

729
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, I would imagine the way

730
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: it works is that you see when the search was submitted,

731
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 1: not when the tab was open.

732
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. So listen, that's that's actually complete bullshit. Like I

733
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 3: feel like, right now, as a non expert person, I

734
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: could go, oh on my Google searches right now and

735
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: see exactly what time I hit the button.

736
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: But also if Karen, like, why would that be Karen's

737
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: first thought to ask her how long to die in

738
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: the cold? Like, I just don't really understand it.

739
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yo, that lady too, That McKay lady is freaking

740
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 3: creepy looking. Well they all are when they're testing. And yeah,

741
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: it's salty. It's like she's she's like, I don't know,

742
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 3: there's there's something a little extra sauce about that one.

743
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so other evidence coming out from this time. Let's

744
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: go back to the house for a second. This trial

745
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 1: happens two years and a couple months after John's death.

746
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: In between this time, the Alberts just got rid of

747
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: their dog they had had for years. Didn't explain why

748
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: they sold the house. That they never dared exit to

749
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: see their.

750
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 3: Dead friend on their lawn. Is that not suspicious? That

751
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 3: is okay? So so that's before the trial started. But

752
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: they knew that she was on trial for this. They

753
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: know she was going to trial, so okay. So you

754
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 3: can look at it from both perspectives. Number one, which

755
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: is more likely in my opinion, that it's suspicious that

756
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 3: they're selling the house because they're trying to get rid

757
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: of get rid of it because they were in the frenzy,

758
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 3: the media frenzy, et cetera. But another thing is like, Okay,

759
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 3: their friend died there and they don't want the memory,

760
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 3: Like I don't want to look out at my front

761
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 3: lawn every day and picture my friend being dead and

762
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: frozen on my phone.

763
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: How could you picture it when you never went outside

764
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: to see them laying out there?

765
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: Like, und I understand your theory. I mean, like that's

766
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 3: that's the human response would be this, this house brings

767
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 3: too many memories. But unfortunately, and and like people get

768
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: rid of houses and sell houses all the time, people

769
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: don't usually get rid of dogs. Could we say that, like,

770
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: unless you have a dog that's been like violent, you know,

771
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: like attacks your friend in the front yard or whatever,

772
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: or that you have to get rid of them. Like

773
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: people that have dogs typically think that their dog is

774
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,479
Speaker 3: like a child. And you couldn't even take that dog

775
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: away if you tried. So them getting rid of their dog,

776
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 3: what was their re They didn't even have like a

777
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: legit reasoning. But who they gave it to? Somebody? Like

778
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: the dog was still alive at some point. I don't know,

779
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 3: Like I don't know.

780
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't think they just like gave it to a friend.

781
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: I think they gave it to like a shelter.

782
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: They brought it to like Germany and dropped it off

783
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: at somebody's house or something.

784
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: No, seriously, all right, so let's get into Brian Higgins,

785
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: who was also there that night. Brian was an ATF

786
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: agent who was friends with John O'Keefe, and he said

787
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: one night, when he was leaving John's house that Karen

788
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: had kissed him and was sending him flirty text messages. So,

789
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: considering they were all hanging out that night, is there

790
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: a possibility there was an argument about that going on

791
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: in the car.

792
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 3: Is there proof of this, of this flirtatious relationship? Yeah?

793
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: Via text?

794
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 1: What like what I mean are basically just like her

795
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: calling him hot, which is inappropriate when you're in a

796
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: relationship with somebody else, asking him to come.

797
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 3: Over her house. Okay, yeah, so that's that to me

798
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 3: is a little bit more than even flirtatious. I would

799
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: say that's like next level like cheating based on almost cheating.

800
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so you have to consider he's like hanging

801
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: out with all of them still, even though she like

802
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: kissed him, which I don't think we know if he

803
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: really like kissed her back or was engaging back. I

804
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: think he was flirting back with her, which is also like,

805
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: why are you flirting with your friend's girl? What's wrong

806
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 1: with all these people?

807
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, They're all kind of like really gross people, honestly.

808
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: Okay, continue, Okay, So the biggest thing in this was

809
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: Trooper Michael Proctor. So obviously we know there was a

810
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: conflict of interest because he was he was friends with

811
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: the Alberts, And then we know the investigation was just

812
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: like bots, beyond anybody's imagination. So then it gets even worse.

813
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: He was caught looking for nude photos of Karen on

814
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 1: her phone and then sent texts about her to friends

815
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: and family and coworkers that referred to her as a

816
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: whack job and said he hoped she'd kill herself.

817
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: Wait, how did any have access to her phone?

818
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: Because for the investigation, they were probably looking through her data.

819
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: That's so like, So how do they know that he

820
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: was looking for naked pictures because he was telling he

821
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 3: was talking to people about it. That's so weird. So

822
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: he's really un professional.

823
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: Well, he got fired from the Massachusetts State Police, which

824
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: I feel like you have to do something incredibly wrong

825
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: and nominated from the like.

826
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 3: A total dipshit because that probably affects your pension and

827
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: everything else. And I mean, these guys are like older,

828
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: approaching fifty, Like they're probably getting close to retirement age anyway,

829
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: and you're just gonna like throw away your whole career

830
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: for why would you do that if you knew that

831
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: it was going to court?

832
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: Well, this makes me think they had been doing stuff

833
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: like this for years and years and years, and he

834
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: just thought he was untouchable.

835
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's a lot of that here because of me.

836
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 3: I mean not that regular people don't drink and drive,

837
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 3: but like all these people are law enforcement officers and

838
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 3: they're just driving around piss as drunk, Like why because

839
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 3: if they get pulled over, they won't get in trouble.

840
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: Did you watch that twenty twenty? He was just recently, Yeah,

841
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 3: I and I really thought that his body language was

842
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 3: suspicious to me, honestly, Well, why just because I was

843
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: watching you know, Kara was over, so we were watching

844
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 3: it on the couch and then we would like stop

845
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 3: watching it for a while and we would talk and

846
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 3: then I would just turn the volume down, and I

847
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 3: was like looking at his mannerisms and stuff, and I

848
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 3: just I'm not like a body language expert, obviously, but

849
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 3: I just felt like he seemed terribly insecure and like

850
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 3: he was hiding something.

851
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: It just was.

852
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: Like he didn't feel comfortable or confident. You know, when

853
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 3: you ask some a question and they're they like even

854
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 3: I don't even want to say the kids because they're kids,

855
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: but you asked them a question that that they're lying

856
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: and they just they break eye contact or they're a

857
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: little whimpery with the response. It was kind of like that.

858
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 3: I know that could happen if you're nervous too, but

859
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: it just didn't seem that he was very that he

860
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: was being very truthful.

861
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: Well, I would say, I think it's kind of weird

862
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: that he even did the interview with twenty twenty. And

863
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: he probably did it because he needs money because he

864
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: got fired from his job and like, what's he going

865
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: to do after this work at Starbucks? Like, but he

866
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: had to have done the interview before the verdict came out.

867
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: And maybe do you think that he was confident that

868
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: she was going to get convicted. Yeah, but he was

869
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: fired months ago. It didn't even matter if she was

870
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: convicted or not. He was still getting fired for what

871
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: he did. No, I know, I'm just I'm just curious.

872
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: I'm curious if he thought that because it got released

873
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: the day of right, Yeah it was. It was the

874
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: day of the verdict.

875
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was obvious interviewed before the verdict. Yeah,

876
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: because that's what I'm saying. So I'm just curious because

877
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: there were a lot of people online that were I've

878
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: been watching this the whole time on X or whatever

879
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: and just being.

880
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 3: Like, Oh, Karen Reid's toast. Any person that doesn't see this,

881
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 3: she's getting guilty? Is this, is this and this, like

882
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: people honestly thought that she was all the evidence was

883
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: so clear, And you're like, was he confident that he

884
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: was gonna come out and clear his name? Because I

885
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 3: feel like now it makes him look even worse.

886
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: Well, somebody confidently left us a YouTube comment last week

887
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: that said Brian Koeberg is innocent and we clearly haven't

888
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: done our research on the Idaho murder case. I'm like, Okay,

889
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: oh god, if you want to think so, lady, but

890
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like nothing this guy did is making

891
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: him innocent. I mean, you can't be like admittedly looking

892
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: for nude photos on a murder suspect's cell phone device.

893
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: What is wrong with you? And I'm sure that made

894
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: his family feel real great.

895
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 3: That this is also weird too, like if you hate

896
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 3: someone so bad, which he like, he's investigating John o'keith's death,

897
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 3: so he doesn't even really know Karen read so why

898
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: is he saying I hope she kills herself? And also,

899
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: if you want someone to kill themselves why why would

900
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: you want to see them naked too? It's like a weird.

901
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: Well to me, it's some weird dark fetish and it

902
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: has me questioning the rest of his profession and how

903
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: he's treated other suspects that he's interacted with. I mean, honestly,

904
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: it's really concerning.

905
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: Okay, So, so he has these text messages which don't

906
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: look good for him. What about during during the night

907
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: or the next day? Did they get everyone's text messages

908
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: like Jen mccave's. I know they got her Google Search

909
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: off her phone, so they had to they had to

910
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 3: subpoena her phone, and I mean, they look.

911
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: Through everybody's texts, but they weren't really looking at them.

912
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: And I don't even think the prosecution was looking at them.

913
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: I think the defense had subpoenaed those.

914
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 3: Wasn't there something too that after? So they claimed that

915
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: they left the house at a certain time and night

916
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 3: and they didn't see anything. But wasn't there like a

917
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 3: weird thing that there were phone calls between them or

918
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 3: something like that? So they like who, like if they

919
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 3: were all together in the house, like, why would they

920
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 3: be making phone calls to each other? Yeah, So they's bizarre.

921
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: They claimed they left around like one o'clock in the

922
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: morning and didn't see anything at all, But then her

923
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: Google search how long to Die in the colds at

924
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: around two thirty in the morning, and then yeah, throughout

925
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, there was a bunch of

926
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: phone calls between people that were hanging out in the house,

927
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: like that's bizarre.

928
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 3: It is having a party and stuff like why.

929
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like they didn't focus on that enough.

930
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, but but they're cops, right, so maybe they were thinking, oh,

931
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 3: they I mean, they can't really they can't really know

932
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: what you're talking about on the phone, all.

933
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: Right, So the big question is how did John die? Right,

934
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: we really don't know at this point how he died.

935
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 1: So the prosecution is claiming that they have this tail

936
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: light from Karen's car, proving that she hit him. But

937
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: then the defense provides ring doorbell footage proving that she

938
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: hit it beforehand and that's why.

939
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 3: It was broken. So where did they get the pieces

940
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 3: of the tail light? Then?

941
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: So the pieces were at the Albert's home. But then

942
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: this is where the conspiracy start coming in because they

943
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: claimed they didn't get them until the snow melted, so

944
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: they were there for a while, and then there's theories

945
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: that the police department planted the piece is there, and

946
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: that her tail light wasn't that broken even the day

947
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: of when they were looking for him. So there's all

948
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: these theories that the police broke the tail light and

949
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: planted the pieces at the scene, which is shady. But

950
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: let's talk about the autopsy, because wouldn't it mean that

951
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: he would have these injuries on his body that showed

952
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: he got hit by a car.

953
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's definitely specific things that happened during this autopsy,

954
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 3: which if you watch the trial at all, and any trial,

955
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 3: you're always going to have the prosecution is going to

956
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 3: have a medical examiner testify, and that's the one that

957
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 3: did the autopsy, and then you're going to have experts

958
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 3: testify on the other side to argue with why they're wrong.

959
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 3: So and that that's just kind of a matter of opinion,

960
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 3: I guess for the jury to listen and decide what

961
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 3: they believe, because science isn't always an exact science, and

962
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: you really could finagle results either way sometimes depending on

963
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 3: what you want them to be, I guess. So the

964
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 3: medical examiner in that case determined that his cause of

965
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 3: death was due to blunt force trauma that incapacitated him

966
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: and he was found out in the cold, and he

967
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 3: could not remove himself due to the head injury, and

968
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: therefore hypothermia was also listed as a contributing factor. Okay,

969
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 3: so that would be his cause of death. But the

970
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 3: Emmy's office said that the medical examiner didn't have enough

971
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: information to determine if those injuries happened by accident or

972
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 3: they didn't happen by accident. So right there, that makes

973
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 3: me think, well, how are they charging this woman with

974
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 3: homicide when they don't even know if like, let's say

975
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 3: she was pissed ass drunk. They got in a fight

976
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: and she was like go in the front to house

977
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: with your friends, and backed up into him somehow. I

978
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 3: don't even know why he would be behind the car,

979
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 3: Like the whole entire thing of it is is bizarre

980
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: of the position of it. But she backed up into

981
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 3: him and ran him over and then drove off. This

982
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 3: was an accident. How would you know if the medical

983
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 3: examiner is not able to say if it's if it

984
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 3: was definitely intention or not, Like, how are they able

985
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 3: to say it just because she sent some nasty grams

986
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 3: to him.

987
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: The second degree murder charge never made any sense to me.

988
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: I never will understand it. I understand them wanting to

989
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 1: go after her for vehicular manslaughter, but still they didn't

990
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: have enough evidence for it.

991
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: So if you hit somebody with a car to the

992
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 3: point where you knock them off of the ground, you're

993
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: expecting to see certain injuries on them, right, So he

994
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 3: did have sternal and rib fractures, with the medical examiner

995
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 3: determined that that was due to CPR injury. So when

996
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: you're doing chest compressions, oftentimes there's a lot of hematomas

997
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: or bruises and broken ribs because you're really pushing on

998
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 3: someone's chest and it's easy to break someone's rib. He

999
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 3: had other evidence of trauma. He had a lot of

1000
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 3: bruises on his hand, which were first when you look

1001
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 3: at them, you're like, oh my god, he's got bruises

1002
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 3: on his hand. But then you look at them and

1003
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 3: you're like, anytime you've ever had an ivy or gotten

1004
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 3: blood taken out of your hand, sometimes you get big

1005
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: bruises on your hand like that. They are not injuries

1006
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 3: you would see in somebody that was trying to defend themselves.

1007
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 3: They're not injuries that you would see if somebody got

1008
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 3: hit by a car, because it's on the top or

1009
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 3: the dorsal of your hand, and that's just it's just

1010
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 3: a weird place to get a bruise. And we know

1011
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,919
Speaker 3: that he had the ivy and stuff. Now, one thing

1012
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: that he had, which was that, which is why the

1013
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 3: medical examiner said that he was knocked down and had

1014
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 3: this head injury, is because when you looked at his face,

1015
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 3: he has what's called Perry orbital echimosis, which is we

1016
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: also call raccoon eyes, or it looks like he has

1017
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 3: two black eyes. Now when you see that, you might think, oh,

1018
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 3: he got punched in the face. But usually obviously when

1019
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 3: you punch them in the face, you don't punch them

1020
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 3: twice in each eye. So this is caused by a

1021
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: skull fracture. So sometimes when there's a frack at the

1022
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 3: base of the skull, blood could leak and get behind

1023
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 3: the eyes, and it gives us appearance around the eyes

1024
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: that you look like you have two black eyes. But

1025
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 3: they're not really from trauma to the eyes themselves. It's

1026
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 3: from a fracture of the base of the skull. So

1027
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 3: there's another photograph from the autopsy of the back of

1028
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 3: his head, and he has evidence of blunt trauma. So

1029
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: he has this laceration that's about three I'm looking at

1030
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 3: it right now, so it's about three point five centimeter

1031
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 3: in length. A laceration is due to blunt trauma, so

1032
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 3: it's when your skin is hitting against another blunt object.

1033
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 3: And with the head, it's a little bit interesting because

1034
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 3: or any any part of the body that's covered by

1035
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: bone is because the bone is blunt object too. So

1036
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 3: it hit something and it caused a laceration. Is I

1037
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 3: would describe it as the skin being split like it's

1038
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 3: it's its tear, so it's jagged, and the the edges

1039
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 3: of the wound might have like little pieces of flesh

1040
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 3: in between it. Because it's not the same as if

1041
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 3: you got a knife, Like think about if you had

1042
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 3: a steak and you ripped it in half, as opposed

1043
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 3: to getting a sharp knife and cutting it like it

1044
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 3: would just look different. So, so something he hid his

1045
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 3: head on something which caused his skull to fracture, and

1046
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 3: she I guess the medical the first medical examiner that

1047
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 3: did the autopsy was saying that obviously it wasn't enough

1048
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 3: of an injury to kill him because he was still

1049
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 3: alive when they found him, but it could have made

1050
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 3: him pass out and could have made him stuck there

1051
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: in the snow. Now, I guess throughout this whole entire trial,

1052
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: they're trying to figure out well, like what hid his

1053
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: head and did he get knocked on the ground and

1054
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 3: hit his head on the ground, Like how did he

1055
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 3: get this wound on his head? Now, the most interesting

1056
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 3: part really of his whole entire autopsy is this picture

1057
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 3: that's been going viral on x and on Instagram and

1058
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 3: everywhere throughout the trial. Are these these wounds that are

1059
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 3: on his arm. He has these crazy wounds on his

1060
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 3: right arm, only on his right arm.

1061
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: Which they're trying to say is caused by the tail

1062
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: light hitting him.

1063
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 3: They're trying to say it's caused by the tail light

1064
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 3: hitting him. And just like when I looked at it

1065
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: the first time, I was like, absolutely not. So the

1066
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 3: medical examiner describes them as abrasions or scrapes, and this

1067
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 3: whole entire time, I've never thought that they were an

1068
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 3: abrasion or a scrape. And abrasion is when you're a

1069
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 3: kid and you're riding your skateboard and you fall and

1070
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 3: scrape your knee. You know what it looks like, right,

1071
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 3: you know what an abrasion looks like. These When you

1072
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 3: look at these wounds, you could just tell that there's

1073
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 3: that that they're depressed, like. You could see that it's

1074
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 3: it's thick, and it's it's just not it's not caused

1075
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 3: by a scrape along a piece of plastic. What furthermore,

1076
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 3: one of the biggest things is you would think that

1077
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 3: if you got hit with a car so hard that

1078
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 3: it knocked you on the ground, that there would be

1079
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 3: a bruise or there would be a broken bone. Nothing.

1080
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: There's no bruising or broken bone underneath of this guy's arm, Okay.

1081
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 3: And when you look at it, they have like a

1082
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: very specific look to which the prosecution says were she

1083
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 3: They're saying it's from the tail light and from the

1084
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 3: broken plastic, and the defense is saying, no, our experts

1085
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 3: said that it looks like a dog bite. So this

1086
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 3: is this is really an interesting thing to bring up

1087
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 3: because then you have to think about, well, this house

1088
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 3: that he died outside of so happened to have.

1089
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: A dog that they so happened to get rid of that.

1090
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 3: They so happened to get rid of and it was

1091
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 3: it was a German shepherd. I believe it was like

1092
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 3: a big dog. Yeah, and these wounds would match with

1093
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 3: an attack of a big dog. The medical examiner said

1094
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 3: they didn't see any defense wounds from a person. But

1095
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, could these be defense wounds from a dog?

1096
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a commonplace if you're seeing a

1097
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: person that's getting attacked by the dog. What's the if

1098
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 3: a dog came up to you right now, Like, what

1099
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 3: would be the first thing that you would do? You

1100
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 3: would put your arm up to block.

1101
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: It, right, I'd run away because it will like the vice.

1102
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 3: So it could attack you from the back and start

1103
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 3: like chewing on you. No, Like, if a dog run

1104
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 3: up to you and look like it was gonna bite you,

1105
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 3: your first reflex would be, especially if you were a

1106
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 3: right handed person, would be like to block it right.

1107
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 3: And that's where those injuries are. It's right on his

1108
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: his right, his right forearm right. So that's a little

1109
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 3: bit unusual. Also when you look at these injuries, because

1110
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 3: dog bites have very specific wound patterns and they have

1111
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 3: a particular V shaped hole like meaning that one end

1112
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: of it is is almost looks like the letter V.

1113
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 3: And when you look at John O'Keefe's autopsy pictures, that's

1114
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 3: what it looks like. It's it's really crazy because it's

1115
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 3: from the canine tooth and that it is like the

1116
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 3: anchorage point of it that and then it pulls down

1117
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 3: with the with the weight of like moving the arm

1118
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 3: and things like that. And then those bites can also

1119
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 3: be accompanied by these parallel lines that you would see

1120
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 3: with the claws from a dog. And when you look

1121
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 3: at these wounds, they're just they're parallel lines like they

1122
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 3: it's it's bizarre to if you think about you getting

1123
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: hit with a broken piece of plastic from a tail light,

1124
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 3: they wouldn't be perfect parallel lines that you would see

1125
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 3: from two perfectly spaced apart claws, you know what I mean.

1126
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: And then to bring back something we mentioned earlier, is

1127
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: this glass he took from the bar. There is a

1128
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: theory that perhaps the cuts were from the glass, but

1129
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: that's just not the case.

1130
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: Listen, how what was it? What kind of glass?

1131
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: Was it?

1132
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: Like a pint mug or like a pint glass or

1133
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 3: a or a martine whatever, like bar.

1134
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: Glass wouldn't give those type of.

1135
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 3: I'm looking at this right now, and there's what, there's

1136
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 3: ten fifteen marks on this guy's arm, Like, how how.

1137
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: Exactly it's It's just.

1138
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 3: It's the theory doesn't even make it doesn't even make

1139
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 3: any sense. Now. The reason that I say it's important

1140
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 3: that the police that were involved with this investigation, who

1141
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 3: also knew the police officers involved in the case it

1142
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 3: was a conflict of interest is because if you're the

1143
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 3: medical examiner's office and you get a body and you

1144
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 3: start doing the autopsy, and then the people that are

1145
01:00:55,360 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 3: there that are watching are the investigators, they're going to say, oh,

1146
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 3: this is what happened that we think that this woman

1147
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 3: hit this guy with the car and we saw the

1148
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 3: broken tail light did it and all this stuff, Well,

1149
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 3: you're planting information in the head of the medical examiner. Now,

1150
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 3: the medical examiner should not be thinking what they're told

1151
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 3: and just be thinking about what they're looking at. And

1152
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 3: if you're looking at this, there's you just you can't

1153
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 3: say that that was caused by a headlight. Like even

1154
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 3: if somebody's telling you that your your little antenna should

1155
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 3: go up and be like, eh, that doesn't look like

1156
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 3: an antenna. That headlight would cause that injury, right but

1157
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 3: that didn't happen in this case. But she also didn't

1158
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 3: really seem to have any explanations as to what caused that,

1159
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 3: but that came later with the testimony and things like that.

1160
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: Wait, based off what you just said about the investigators

1161
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: being in the autopsy, I wanted to bring up a

1162
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: point that Cheryl keeps making on Zone seven, which is

1163
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: that I thought kind it odd that the investigators went

1164
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: to the autopsy, but none of the police officers went

1165
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: to his funeral, which she said is incredibly unusual for

1166
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: law enforcement funerals that not all of them would be there.

1167
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: So wait, so Albert, that guy didn't even know none

1168
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: of the cop friends went to Okay, right there too, See,

1169
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that. That is absolutely right. Listen

1170
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: when and and and like the firefighters and cops kind

1171
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: of even though they're different, they kind of have a

1172
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: lot of the same similar things, like if there's a

1173
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: firefighter that dies in another city, Gabe will go to

1174
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: the funeral. Like exactly, they are very they are like

1175
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: a tight knit brotherhood of guys. That is very bizarre,

1176
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: and especially bizarre because they're friends.

1177
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that's yeah, that's really weird.

1178
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: And she didn't go because she was under arrests.

1179
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: Okay, well, that's what I'm saying that, Like I understand.

1180
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 3: I guess I could understand if she was there and

1181
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 3: they were so mad at like because they thought she

1182
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: killed the friend. But that's so shady.

1183
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: Get into the hypothermia too, because you had a really

1184
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: interesting take about that.

1185
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 3: Okay. So so she said that the medical when I

1186
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 3: say she, the medical examiner had said that he had

1187
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: died of hypothermia basically, which means that his body temperature

1188
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 3: went too low. So you're our body temperatures, we have

1189
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 3: something called homeostasis because we're warm blooded animals. So our body,

1190
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: our body temperature is at ninety eight point six degrees

1191
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 3: give or take a few degrees at the same time,

1192
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 3: and that's the ideal temperature for our organs to function

1193
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,959
Speaker 3: at their at their absolute best. And if you get

1194
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 3: too hot, if your temperature goes too hot, so that's

1195
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 3: when you get a fever, basically, then you it could

1196
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 3: it doesn't function. Your body doesn't function best obviously, you know,

1197
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 3: because you feel like you're literally going to die when

1198
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 3: you have a fever of that high and that's called

1199
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: hype or ethermia. So there's a point that it could

1200
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 3: get too high that you will die, your organs won't

1201
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 3: function anymore. Well, the same thing can happen if you

1202
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 3: get too cold too, So this is this is really interesting,

1203
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 3: and this is my theory that proves that he wasn't

1204
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 3: laying there as long as they said that he was

1205
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 3: laying there. According to the prosecutors, John was knocked over

1206
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 3: by Karen Reid's car and left for dead around twelve

1207
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 3: thirty am ish and he wasn't discovered until six am ish,

1208
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 3: meaning that he was there for around five and a

1209
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 3: half hours. The temperature in Canton, Massachusetts, on the night

1210
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 3: that he was supposedly knocked down by Karen Reid's car,

1211
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 3: between the hours of twelve am and six am, ranged

1212
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 3: from eighteen to twenty eight degrees fahrenheit. He was outside

1213
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 3: wearing a hoodie partially covered in snow. He wasn't dressed

1214
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 3: appropriately for the weather, but Karen said it was very

1215
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 3: common for him not to wear a coat. When his

1216
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 3: body was discovered, like I said, his body temperature was

1217
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: in the low eighties. Now, I had found this in

1218
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: one of my forensic books, a chart on Newton's law

1219
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 3: of cooling in relation to hypothermia. This chart that I

1220
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 3: have showing here, you're gonna have to go in the

1221
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 3: grosser room to look at it, But it's showing a

1222
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 3: chart of how many hours you're in the cold according

1223
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 3: to how much you weigh and how your body temperature

1224
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 3: drops the longer that you're in a certain temperature. Okay,

1225
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 3: so this particular chart that I'm referencing is based on

1226
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: a person that's one hundred and seventy six pounds who's

1227
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 3: in twenty five degree fahrenheit air temperature and a ten

1228
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 3: mile an hour wind. Now we're gonna say that John

1229
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 3: O'Keefe weighed a little bit more than that, So instead

1230
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 3: of one hundred and seventy six pounds, he was two

1231
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 3: hundred and seventeen pounds ish, and the temperatures were between

1232
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 3: eighteen and twenty eight degrees, so in the range of

1233
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: the same exact temperature that his body was found in.

1234
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 3: According to this chart, one hundred and seventy six pound

1235
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 3: person would not survive in these conditions for more than

1236
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 3: two and a half hours.

1237
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what they're trying to say. He was there

1238
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: for six.

1239
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 3: For almost six hours, That's what my question is. According

1240
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,120
Speaker 3: to this chart that we used in forensics textbooks. This

1241
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 3: is from a forensic textbook. One hundred and seventy six

1242
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 3: pound person would not survive in these conditions for more

1243
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 3: than two and a half hours. So obviously he weighed

1244
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 3: a little bit more, so he could have lasted a

1245
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 3: little bit longer. But there's no way more than double

1246
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: that time five and a half to six hours with

1247
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 3: lower temperatures and more extreme weather because there was snow

1248
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 3: that he was out there, and on top of that,

1249
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 3: he wasn't even dead when he was found. He was

1250
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 3: still alive when he was found, the medical examiner, So

1251
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 3: this is even this is even more interesting, the medical

1252
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 3: examiner said. Alcohol intoxication has been shown to inhibit some

1253
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 3: of the mechanisms that the body uses to maintain heat.

1254
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 3: So it's definitely a factor that is a negative when

1255
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 3: it comes to hypothermia. So when our body's cold, the

1256
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 3: natural response is to shiver to generate heat, right, So

1257
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 3: alcohol delays that mechanism, and a head injury with unconsciousness

1258
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 3: also delays that mechanism. So it's in my opinion that

1259
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 3: he was no way out there for five and a

1260
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 3: half hours and still alive when found. Down, not wearing

1261
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 3: a coat directly on and covered by snow. There's just

1262
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:49,959
Speaker 3: there's absolutely no way that he was out there that long.

1263
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 3: And I finally, I mean just last week one of

1264
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 3: the defense medical examiners testified that she didn't think that

1265
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 3: he died from hypotherma. And I'm like, why is this

1266
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 3: the first time I'm hearing this in this entire trial,

1267
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 3: because right ago, I brought it up months ago. But

1268
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 3: I'm saying that I brought it up in the Grosser

1269
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:11,439
Speaker 3: Room post and I brought it up on the Zone

1270
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 3: seven podcasts. But what I don't understand why, Because this

1271
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 3: right here proves a timeline. They they they're able to

1272
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 3: prove his weight, they're able to prove the temperature, they're

1273
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 3: able to prove the conditions. They should have been able

1274
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 3: to say, there's no way that he was outside during

1275
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 3: that time. Now, what's what's really interesting is, all of

1276
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: a sudden, when you look at her text messages, Jim

1277
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 3: McCabe's text messages at two o'clock in the morning, which

1278
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 3: is now an hour and a half past when Karen

1279
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 3: Reid said she was there. Now you're like, hm, that's interesting,

1280
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 3: like that that timeline could could start matching up a

1281
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 3: little bit closer, and and and just think about the dog,

1282
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 3: the potential dog it wounds or whatever happened. Is it

1283
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 3: possible that there was some kind of a fight in

1284
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 3: the house and the dog attacked, you know, like, think

1285
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 3: about this sometimes. If if he this is just a

1286
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 3: theory obviously, but if he went into the house and

1287
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,680
Speaker 3: they were like, where's your bitch girlfriend? Right, and then

1288
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:19,640
Speaker 3: he was just like, don't talk about my woman that

1289
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 3: way they got up in each other's face. What does

1290
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 3: a dog do with their owner? They they get like

1291
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 3: if I if I walk into momm and pop Up's

1292
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 3: house and go to kiss pop like, the dog starts

1293
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 3: eyeing me up, like yo, get away from him. He's like,

1294
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 3: I'm protecting him. Yeah, right. So if if John O'Keefe

1295
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 3: was in an argument with the homeowner and they were

1296
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 3: screaming at each other, the dog could have jumped up

1297
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 3: on him like that and knocked him over to the

1298
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 3: ground and they could have brought him outside, and that

1299
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 3: would explain the wound on his head, That would explain

1300
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 3: the wound on his arms, and that would explain the

1301
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 3: text messages that are like how long what does it say?

1302
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 3: How's shell because she was just long to die in

1303
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 3: the cold. I mean, I'm just I'm just putting out

1304
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 3: like a potential theory.

1305
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: There's also this grand conspiracy that they were all in

1306
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 1: this giant swinger situation, and it's I could cover up

1307
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: for them all being swingers or something.

1308
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. I just think that they're I

1309
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 3: just I don't know because if they were swingers like that,

1310
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 3: that could be a conspiracy theory. But if they were swingers,

1311
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 3: like I feel like there would have been evidence that

1312
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 3: they were doing There's there's no text message there. They're

1313
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 3: they're acting like they're acting like teenagers, honestly, like that

1314
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 3: that's how they're acting, Like Oh I like you, and

1315
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 3: I like you, and you're hut and the weird go

1316
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 3: in and make sure it's okay that I can't then

1317
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 3: I go in the party. Like it's all just like

1318
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 3: it's all bizarre behavior. In my opinion, it's bizarre behavior

1319
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 3: that he was the guardian of two children and they

1320
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 3: were at home alone and he was out drunk with

1321
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 3: his friends. Like all of it's weird to me, But

1322
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 3: like people do what they're gonna do whatever. I just

1323
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 3: I personally just think that I don't one hundred percent

1324
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 3: like I'm not one of these like free Karen Read people,

1325
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 3: because I think all of the people involved are just

1326
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 3: kind of like scumbaggy kind of people. But I definitely

1327
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 3: just one hundred percent in agreeance with the jury on this.

1328
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 3: There's absolutely no way that you could prove anything, and

1329
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 3: even if you could, the worst you could say is

1330
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 3: she pulled away because she was pissed off and hit

1331
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 3: him by accident and didn't realize it. There's no evidence

1332
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 3: to suggest anything else.

1333
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So during this first trial, there was nine weeks

1334
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: of testimony and then several days of deliberation, and then

1335
01:11:57,920 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 1: they ended up being a hung jury. They could not

1336
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 1: they could not come to an agreement that she was

1337
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 1: guilty or innocent. They just couldn't. So this means a retrial. God,

1338
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: this must have been such a horrible moment for her.

1339
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 3: The thing is is that she's she's like, she's not likable, right,

1340
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 3: you would say that she's not.

1341
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: I was just texting my cousin Devin last night about

1342
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,879
Speaker 1: why because she her and her sister lived just started

1343
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 1: watching all the I'm like, I can't believe you've never

1344
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: watched anything about this. So we're texting this is a

1345
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: good episode, a good starter episode if you want to

1346
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 1: get into it now. Yeah, So I said that via text.

1347
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 1: I was like, she comes across unlikable because I don't

1348
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: think she is, but like, it doesn't mean she did

1349
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: it exactly. I agree with and I'm gonna stand outside

1350
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: the courthouse with a sign of this is free Karen Reid.

1351
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: But I could say they can't prove this beyond reasonable

1352
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: doubt that she did it.

1353
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 3: And like, another thing I want to say, which we

1354
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 3: probably should have said in the beginning of the episode,

1355
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 3: is that there's just so much more to this trial

1356
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 3: that we're we're not even covering like a lot of

1357
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 3: it because for time sake, we've already been talking for

1358
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 3: over an hour and it and everybody so much suffering

1359
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 3: and my kind of but my, my whole thing is

1360
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 3: obviously because I'm a PA and I do autopsy and

1361
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 3: surgical pathology, that I I have to bring up that

1362
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 3: just the timeline alone from a scientific standpoint isn't possible,

1363
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 3: and the wounds as well. And another thing that we

1364
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 3: always bring up when Maria and I are talking about

1365
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 3: this case is the similarities with cases like the Ellen

1366
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 3: Greenberg case, which if you don't know about that, that's

1367
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 3: a whole other wele other time that's not getting I'm

1368
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,680
Speaker 3: not getting into it. If you're interested in it, you

1369
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 3: could read about that in the gross room. But it's

1370
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 3: just it's just another case that leaves a lot of

1371
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 3: answers because the initial investigation was botched. And and that's

1372
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 3: when you and and when you become a police officer

1373
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 3: and a friend investigator and when you do autopsies, it's

1374
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 3: just so important that you are meticulous and you go

1375
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 3: slow and you get the correct answers, you collect the

1376
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 3: evidence correctly, because if you get trust lost in you

1377
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 3: early in the process, the rest of the case is shit.

1378
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: No, absolutely all right. So let's wrap up with what

1379
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: happened in trial too, and then the verdict. So we've

1380
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: gone over some differences in trial to that began on

1381
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 1: April first, twenty twenty five, and it just ended June

1382
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: eighteenth with the verdict. So again weeks and weeks and

1383
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 1: weeks of going over all of the same evidence and testimony.

1384
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: I think what was successful in this case was that

1385
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: the defense changed their strategy so instead of really focusing

1386
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: on the conspiracy, which I think they were right to

1387
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 1: bring up I just don't think it was right to

1388
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 1: go that deep into it.

1389
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 3: At first.

1390
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 1: They chose to go like, why weren't you looking into

1391
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: anybody else besides Karen? Why was the investigation so botched?

1392
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: And that was really important for the jurors to see.

1393
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: I always get tripped up with saying us so basically,

1394
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 1: like you didn't look at anybody else besides Karen, which

1395
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:11,719
Speaker 1: we've seen.

1396
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 3: They didn't go in.

1397
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: The house, they didn't collect the evidence properly, they didn't

1398
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: do anything correct. There was conflicts of interest with the investigators,

1399
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 1: so how could you reasonably charge her not ruling anybody

1400
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: else out?

1401
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:23,679
Speaker 3: Basically.

1402
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:27,679
Speaker 1: Also, historically, mistrials are really good for the defense because

1403
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: you've proved enough doubt the first time around that you

1404
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: could pretty much zero in on that for the second time.

1405
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened.

1406
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I am just and like, at

1407
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 3: the end of it, it sucks because this guy, he's

1408
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 3: a police officer, he was an active police officer. Most

1409
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 3: people have really good things to say about him. Was

1410
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 3: he was. I mean, that's a really big thing that

1411
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:56,679
Speaker 3: he did, being in his forties and taking his sister's

1412
01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 3: children and raising them, right, yeah, of course so, and

1413
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 3: and now like think about his mom for example, I

1414
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 3: don't know parents, mother, father, whatever, his parents like this guy,

1415
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 3: they lost a child already to cancer and now they're

1416
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 3: losing and now they lost his son. And if you

1417
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 3: have I mean, that could have been their only children,

1418
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 3: if whatever, if you have a couple children, like losing

1419
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 3: two of your children when they're when you're still alive,

1420
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 3: it is terrible. And not only that they're old people

1421
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 3: now and they have to raise kids, because there's they're

1422
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 3: gonna have to raise kids because of this. So you

1423
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 3: feel terrible and like all of this circus is is

1424
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 3: and we're guilty of it too, just being like the

1425
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 3: Karen Reid trial. It's just like, no, it's just John

1426
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 3: O'Keeffe was the one that died. We don't know howe died.

1427
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 3: We're never gonna know Holle died unless someone confesses or

1428
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,719
Speaker 3: some video pops up at some point, and their family

1429
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 3: is left with this circus, literal circus, and now they

1430
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 3: left and they have no justice.

1431
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 1: They have no justice regardless because regardless if the police

1432
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 1: officers that were his friends were involved in his death

1433
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 1: or not, the police is responsible for fucking up the

1434
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 1: investigation so bad that the family can't seek justice.

1435
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 3: Exactly, it's he's his fault.

1436
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 1: Whether she got convicted or not, they're still not answers

1437
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 1: as to what happened to him, and they will never

1438
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: know unless you're saying somebody straight up confesses to exactly

1439
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 1: what happened.

1440
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 3: As of this recording, only one drawer has come out

1441
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 3: and said that he believes not only did they not

1442
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 3: have enough evidence, but he actually believes that she's innocent. Now,

1443
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 3: he didn't really say what the other people said, and

1444
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 3: he did what he said.

1445
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: They were pretty split on it, so some of them

1446
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: thought she was innocent and some of them thought she

1447
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: was guilty. But the people who thought she was guilty

1448
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: agreed that there was not enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt

1449
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 1: that she killed him.

1450
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 3: Okay, So like I'm really curious to see what they say,

1451
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 3: because really that's the most important part is to see

1452
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 3: how other people are perceiving it, not just us people

1453
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 3: that are looking from around like people. That's that. And

1454
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 3: but this is the thing, Like we could talk to

1455
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 3: multiple people that know all of because we all watched

1456
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 3: the trial the past two ones, Like we all know

1457
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 3: the details, and everybody has such varying opinions on it.

1458
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 3: So but I want to know when they were sitting

1459
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 3: in the room, like, what are the details? And I

1460
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 3: bet you when we hear from all of them, it's

1461
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 3: going to have to do with them not going into

1462
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 3: the house.

1463
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: Well, of course, because how could how could you live

1464
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: with yourself if you convicted a woman not having concrete

1465
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: evidence like that.

1466
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 3: So so that's so when we hear from them, that's

1467
01:18:55,880 --> 01:19:00,040
Speaker 3: when the o'key family needs to listen to that, and

1468
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 3: that's who they should put their anger towards, because that's

1469
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 3: if think about how different this would have turned out

1470
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 3: if they collected everything properly, if they went in the house,

1471
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 3: if they had accountability it every it could have turned

1472
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 3: all of their decision around really.

1473
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: Well of course, of course, but you can't convict her

1474
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: without this evidence, and that's the problem. I I'm not

1475
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: surprised she was found she So she was found not

1476
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: guilty on the second degree murder and the manslaughter or

1477
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,680
Speaker 1: the leaving the scene of a deadly accident. She was

1478
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: found guilty of operating under the influence, which I think

1479
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 1: was appropriate, and she got one year of probation for that,

1480
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:42,480
Speaker 1: so like that was appropriate because she's being held responsible

1481
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 1: for the thing she was doing wrong, which was drunk driving.

1482
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 3: But they did have gone to.

1483
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 1: Us that judge was so salty that all right, So

1484
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: like everything, so the entire investigations bought this story is weird.

1485
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 1: You don't really know what happened. And then you have

1486
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,759
Speaker 1: the mistrial first time around, and then what was weird

1487
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 1: with this second trial was I mean, the judge sucked.

1488
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,520
Speaker 1: She was so salty, she was so rude to everybody.

1489
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:09,599
Speaker 1: She was probably so pissed she didn't get charged.

1490
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 3: She was she was very blatantly biased in my opinion. No,

1491
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 3: I agree with you, and listen, like I said that,

1492
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 3: I don't think Karen Reid doesn't have you just like them.

1493
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 3: She's not likable. But also, you know, I don't know,

1494
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 3: it's like we you know, we obsestantly, like watched the

1495
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 3: Jodiarius trial and you just look at her and you're like, yo,

1496
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 3: this chick is like bad shit crazy like Karen Reid.

1497
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:40,640
Speaker 3: I feel like I feel like she's she's like a passionate,

1498
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 3: like she's nuts, but she's even rough around that she

1499
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 3: seems like she's like rough around the edges and like

1500
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 3: gets pissed off and like, I don't know, I just

1501
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 3: I never really got the vibe that she was like

1502
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:57,760
Speaker 3: like do you know what I mean, like like conniving

1503
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 3: and and some of that. It's just not a murderer,

1504
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 3: Like yeah, I just don't Yeah, And if if anything,

1505
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 3: like if anything you could that, if anything, I would say,

1506
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 3: the most thing that you could do is is if

1507
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 3: if she was ever going to get convicted, was that

1508
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 3: she bumped them by accident because she was drunk and

1509
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 3: you know, you you see people get in a fight,

1510
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 3: they like drive off really fast, right, like it would

1511
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 3: be something like that, like it was an accident. She

1512
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 3: I just one believe she had no idea that she

1513
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 3: hit him and and like went home and like played

1514
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 3: out and called him and pretended like.

1515
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,680
Speaker 1: And they don't have any evidence to prepeated it. So

1516
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:40,799
Speaker 1: the last weird thing that, of course had to happen

1517
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 1: with this is the jury knocked on the door and

1518
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: said they had a verdict, and then a couple of

1519
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 1: minutes later said never mind, we don't. So then everybody

1520
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,759
Speaker 1: got some into the courtroom and then the salty judge

1521
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 1: sealed the original verdict and I'm like, I hope they

1522
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 1: read the correct one just to make it fair. But

1523
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: it was so bizarre, and on court TV was saying

1524
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 1: that was incredibly unusual that that happened. And the last

1525
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 1: time something even kind of similar happened was with Johnny

1526
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: Depp and Amber heard when the jury said they had

1527
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 1: a verdict and they didn't fill the slip out correctly,

1528
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 1: and then all they had to do was fill the

1529
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 1: slip So every single.

1530
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 3: Element of this trial was so bizarre. I think her

1531
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 3: comment so so I guess when they decided that they

1532
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 3: were going to sentence her, write or whatever, they were

1533
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 3: going to give her her sentence, and she said so,

1534
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 3: she was just kind of like, oh so basically she's

1535
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 3: getting a charge that any first time drunk driver would get. Okay,

1536
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 3: like it was wasn't it said like that, just like,

1537
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,800
Speaker 3: oh so, so this psycho that killed the cop is

1538
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 3: just gonna like That's how the said in that exact attitude.

1539
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: I think you're reading a little too No, I'm not

1540
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: due to it. There was definitely twode behind there was.

1541
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 3: A too, like like okay, so you could just kill

1542
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 3: the cop and this is all you're getting out of.

1543
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: It, Because do you think this judge could seriously fathom

1544
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 1: the inappropriate actions of multiple police departments. Well, no, but

1545
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: like here it happened. It is unbelievable. It did happen,

1546
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:10,320
Speaker 1: but it's unbelievable.

1547
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 3: One other thing that we should mention too, for those

1548
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 3: of you who didn't watch, when they read the verdict.

1549
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 3: Inside of the courtroom, there was a like an audible

1550
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 3: like you could hear like people breaming outside outside, Like

1551
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 3: it was so loud from the microphones inside of the

1552
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,800
Speaker 3: courtroom from outside it was nuts. All right, Well, you

1553
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 3: guys have suffered through this very long explanation.

1554
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: We tried to get as much as possible in here,

1555
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 1: but of course there's so much to this case, and

1556
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 1: we couldn't watch it every single day on Court TV.

1557
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,400
Speaker 2: We have a life, so I don't know, and we

1558
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 2: couldn't like, uh, you know, get give up hanging out

1559
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 2: with our kids and go stand outside of the trial

1560
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 2: every day for two weeks or three weeks or three

1561
01:23:58,880 --> 01:23:59,599
Speaker 2: months or whatever.

1562
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 3: It's a but we hope.

1563
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 1: That after all of this you have some better understanding

1564
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: of why this case was so sensationalized and ridiculous. Little

1565
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,680
Speaker 1: programming note tomorrow's episode is going to be out on

1566
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,759
Speaker 1: Friday instead of Thursday, so look out for that. Don't

1567
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: panic when you don't see the Mother.

1568
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:19,640
Speaker 3: Nos Death episode pop up on Thursday.

1569
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: And if you want to buy tickets for the Atlanta

1570
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 1: Meet and Greet or the Crime and Wine at the

1571
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 1: Georgia's Writer Museum, head over to the description of this episode.

1572
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 1: Please head over to Apple or Spotify and leave us review,

1573
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel, and if you have a

1574
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 1: story for us, please submit it to stories at Mothernosdeath

1575
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: dot com.

1576
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 3: Say on Friday, thank you for listening to Mother Nos Death.

1577
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,680
Speaker 3: As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist assistant.

1578
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,839
Speaker 3: I have a master's level education and specialize in anatomy

1579
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 3: and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I

1580
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 3: have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without

1581
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:04,800
Speaker 3: the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,

1582
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 3: and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform

1583
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 3: people based on my experience working in pathology, so they

1584
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 3: can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.

1585
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 3: Always remember that science is changing every day and the

1586
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 3: opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge

1587
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 3: of those subjects at the time of publication. If you

1588
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 3: are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or

1589
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 3: having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit

1590
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:40,719
Speaker 3: an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,

1591
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:45,240
Speaker 3: and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1592
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 3: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks