Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 1: These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Dundun. Hello,
Speaker 1: I am Liza Trigger and I'm Kara Klank. Welcome to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: Every week we talk about an episode of Law and
Speaker 2: Order SVU, the crime that it is based on, and
Speaker 2: we have an amazing guest every week that was in
Speaker 2: the episode we chat about. And right now we have
Speaker 2: huge news to share with everybody. Yes, Kara and I
Speaker 2: we're lucky enough to be invited to a Zoom bachelorette
Speaker 2: party and there was a stripper on Zoom. We got
Speaker 2: a Zoom stripper, and I think that's the best thing
Speaker 2: that's happened to me.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, we got our own personal Bolo.
Speaker 3: Y'all.
Speaker 1: We just told you guys last week about the world's
Speaker 1: most epic bacherette party on real houses of Atlanta, and
Speaker 1: then we had ourselves a virtual version of it and
Speaker 1: it was really really hilarious and funny, and was my
Speaker 1: toddler sort of in and out. Yeah, she was okay,
Speaker 1: it was five o'clock.
Speaker 2: There was another mom breastfeeding and pumping during the strip
Speaker 2: tease as well, we're a varied group of women, and
Speaker 2: he didn't pay for this advertisement, but we are going
Speaker 2: to shout out Billy Rock Entertainment.
Speaker 1: Billy Rock Entertainment. If you need an online exotic dancwer,
Speaker 1: this guy did so he did like honestly, he did
Speaker 1: like performance art, like lyrical movement and then like and
Speaker 1: then he like gets a cape. He I mean, he
Speaker 1: takes off his you don't see penis or anything like,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that's what anybody was like really
Speaker 1: going for. But like he was really sweet. We were
Speaker 1: like tipping him venmo. We had a really good time
Speaker 1: in the chat. You think it's gonna be awkward. I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe we just have a good group of
Speaker 1: girlfriends or something, but like you think it's gonna be awkward,
Speaker 1: and it was really fun. Like the chat was making
Speaker 1: me die. Like everybody was being great.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was weird when he kissed his cross
Speaker 2: necklace and made a movement to the Lord in the
Speaker 2: sky while his while he turned his cape into a
Speaker 2: skirt and showed us his butt cheeks That was definitely
Speaker 2: a silly moment.
Speaker 1: He also was in his kitchen and there was like
Speaker 1: a little placard on his table that said Blessed, so
Speaker 1: you could tell he loved the Lord immediately and we
Speaker 1: were all on board.
Speaker 2: He also saw his treadmill. There was a garbage can
Speaker 2: in the background. But my favorite part of Billy Rock,
Speaker 2: besides his perfect eyebrows and body, was in the beginning
Speaker 2: he went, oh, I think my roommate has some vodka.
Speaker 1: I'll take a shot with you guys.
Speaker 2: And it's like you could have lied and said it's
Speaker 2: your own vodka, Like why why did you tell us
Speaker 2: you had a roommate, Billy.
Speaker 1: You don't let us have a fantasy that you can
Speaker 1: afford to live alone, Billy. But he was Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was amazing. So again, then I kept thinking his roommate
Speaker 1: was going to walk in. Then I kept thinking, oh, man,
Speaker 1: the roommate's going to come home at some point. This
Speaker 1: is going to be a real sitcom. But you should
Speaker 1: Billy Rock Entertainment. It was. It was so fun and funny.
Speaker 1: So my daughter was having a full just like woke
Speaker 1: up too late from a nap and was having a
Speaker 1: meltdown and just needed to be with me, even though
Speaker 1: my husband was home trying to take care of her,
Speaker 1: and she was sitting on my lap. And then but
Speaker 1: for the beginning part of the bachelerette, and then when
Speaker 1: the strooper came out, I was like, Okay, we need
Speaker 1: to walk away. And then I just kept like popping
Speaker 1: back in to like see the strooper. But then she
Speaker 1: would be coming following me to be like, what are
Speaker 1: you looking at, mama.
Speaker 2: There was also two girls driving in a car while
Speaker 2: watching the shop show.
Speaker 1: People were commuting. That's the beauty of the online strip
Speaker 1: show bachelorette party is that you can be a girl
Speaker 1: on the go and you can still attend, you know.
Speaker 2: It was incredible. We also had dramatic injuries. Your daughter
Speaker 2: got injured. I had to take my parents cat to
Speaker 2: the er twice because they're so annoying.
Speaker 1: It's been a really emotional week. Yeah, my daughter had
Speaker 1: her first injury that drew blood where she hit her head.
Speaker 1: It's very she got the glue, the surgical glue. She's fine,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's like for me, it was like
Speaker 1: my husband was more traumatized than anyone else. He was
Speaker 1: likely I was like, I have to talk him down.
Speaker 1: He's sensitive, Yeah he is sensitive, but yeah, she was fine.
Speaker 1: It was just like, you know, when you're calling plastic
Speaker 1: surgeons and you're like, hy, I have a twenty three
Speaker 1: month old. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to
Speaker 1: get a plastic surgeon in LA to pay attention to
Speaker 1: you when you're not getting your tits done.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that cuts and scrapes lead to plastic surgery.
Speaker 1: If it's on the face. If it's on the face,
Speaker 1: you know, if it's a really big laceration, like you
Speaker 1: really do kind of want to get a plastic surgeon
Speaker 1: so that you don't get a bad scar. She didn't
Speaker 1: end up needing it. I just couldn't tell, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm not a doctor, so but it was. She
Speaker 1: got on the phone with my mom. My mom's a doctor,
Speaker 1: so I called my mom to see what to do,
Speaker 1: and my mind, she was all calm and she got
Speaker 1: on the phone. I showed her to my mom and
Speaker 1: she goes, I got a boom boo grandma and started
Speaker 1: crying and I was like, I'm gonna cry. This is
Speaker 1: so this is so emotional, but it's all so cute.
Speaker 1: It was so cute. It was so cute, but it
Speaker 1: was like she had calmed down. But then seeing my mom,
Speaker 1: who she's not met in real life for the past
Speaker 1: fifteen months. She hasn't seen my mom since she's had
Speaker 1: a memory, you know, Like, so it was just cute.
Speaker 1: It's nice she know she still knows her grandma. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but then what happened to your cat?
Speaker 2: A uti? That cat's been fucking and her thyroid was fucked.
Speaker 2: But my parents are just and it's the I don't
Speaker 2: blame them. Like my dad's brother died in surgery in
Speaker 2: Russia in the former Soviet Union because the doctor was
Speaker 2: drunk and fucked up the surgery. Oh my god. And
Speaker 2: then we've just had lots like I understand his fear.
Speaker 2: And then his other brother also died in surgery at
Speaker 2: an older age, and so like everyone is just like
Speaker 2: terrified of doctors, and they've passed it on to me,
Speaker 2: which I'm not appreciative of. Like I wait till it
Speaker 2: is the worst case scenario before I go to the doctor.
Speaker 2: And I have friends that are like, oh, I have
Speaker 2: a cough going to the doctor, and I wish I
Speaker 2: had that.
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'ma have a cough. But I go to
Speaker 1: the dermatologists every year to get chut my moles checked.
Speaker 1: I go to the obgi N every year for my Like,
Speaker 1: I'm just very pro especially because health insurance is so scarce.
Speaker 1: Like I've had moments where I thought I didn't have
Speaker 1: health insurance, and so when I have it, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm going, But I don't go just for like every sniffle.
Speaker 2: No. And when we moved to America, the dentist tried
Speaker 2: tried to convince my mom to knock all her teeth
Speaker 2: out what and just get fake teeth. Yeah, And she's like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep my teeth and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's not worth it. Like they were just trying to
Speaker 2: take her teeth. So they're just distrusting of medical stuff.
Speaker 2: And so Kat wasn't eating and I was like, let
Speaker 2: me just take her, and they refused, and then they
Speaker 2: finally let me, but not over and this and that,
Speaker 2: and then my parents are like, listen, Lisa, we've lived
Speaker 2: a lot of life and this is it. We just
Speaker 2: have to say bye and let her die slowly and
Speaker 2: lets the cat die of a uti yeah, And I
Speaker 2: was like, you guys are out of control. I'm taking her.
Speaker 2: She's now jumping around, running, meeting me at the door,
Speaker 2: eating normally, just like living a full life like she
Speaker 2: is thirteen. But they were just like, Liza, it's time
Speaker 2: to let her go.
Speaker 1: I was like, so they distrust medicine and doctors, but
Speaker 1: they also like just they just like had a They
Speaker 1: just have What am I trying to say, I don't know.
Speaker 1: They just confusing, just like an acceptance of the afterlife.
Speaker 1: They're just like this is how she goes, sorry, it's
Speaker 1: a I guess I have a paper cut. Good night.
Speaker 1: It's been a nice life.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, well, because our friend Julia, she did tell me.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, Russia really fucked up
Speaker 2: my parents, and she goes, yeah, I guess when your
Speaker 2: government is going after you and your people, it might
Speaker 2: affect you a little bit. And I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: when you're the targeted attack of the government, you might
Speaker 2: it might affect your beliefs.
Speaker 1: You know. I watched the Americans and I always think
Speaker 1: about that because they're always like, we're going to go back,
Speaker 1: We're going to go back, and I'm like, why are
Speaker 1: you going back? You have a very nice life in Washington.
Speaker 2: D c they you don't brainwash their brainsh I In
Speaker 2: the group chat, I revealed my dad said he'll get
Speaker 2: the vaccine when Putin gets the vaccine. Like Putin's waiting
Speaker 2: on something. And it's like who is Putin?
Speaker 3: Who?
Speaker 2: He were not even living there? Why are you?
Speaker 1: He's like, Putin has the vaccine. Putin got vaccinated a
Speaker 1: year ago. I met you. Like Putin is so vaccinated.
Speaker 2: They're brainwashed, you know. Watching the Americans too, I was like,
Speaker 2: why do you want to go back?
Speaker 1: Like they'd be like, I can't wait to go back
Speaker 1: with our kids. I'm like, your kids that have lived
Speaker 1: a free life in America are going to love and
Speaker 1: like every time they go back and they show the USSR,
Speaker 1: it looks so terrible on the show. I'm like people
Speaker 1: are like fighting in breadlines and like the supermarket has
Speaker 1: nothing on the shelves. I'm like, yeah, get back there.
Speaker 1: It looks fun anyway. I'm sure's beautiful parts of Russia,
Speaker 1: by the way, and don't come for me now. I
Speaker 1: was just thinking of that too.
Speaker 2: I was like, great, people are gonna get about our
Speaker 2: anti Russia rhetoric. Putin fans are gonna what if a
Speaker 2: bunch of Putin people are listening too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have. We just have like Putin fans listening
Speaker 1: to us. Oh wait, speaking of people that do listen
Speaker 1: to us, we put out a question last week about
Speaker 1: eighty as. We were like, why was Casey Novak at
Speaker 1: the scene in that episode like to Eightya's go to
Speaker 1: the scene? Why was Coreese doing the unassisted pull up
Speaker 1: to eightas go to the scene. We have upwards of
Speaker 1: five listeners who are adas, which I think is really exciting.
Speaker 1: We got at least five or six messages, which means
Speaker 1: that there's probably more out there. Ada's who listened to
Speaker 1: our podcast, who told us varying things. Most of them
Speaker 1: said there's no way in how that adas would go
Speaker 1: to a crime scene because then they become a witness
Speaker 1: to the crime where they could contaminate the crime scene
Speaker 1: or something. But then other people were like, there are
Speaker 1: some cases where they do go for walkthroughs and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But mostly it was that SVU is exaggerating it. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm just like shocked and honored that we have so
Speaker 1: many ada's.
Speaker 2: And our listeners are so nice.
Speaker 1: I'm not used to this from the internet.
Speaker 2: We posted the article we are in a magazine in
Speaker 2: Ireland and people were like, that's what I like to see.
Speaker 2: I tell everyone, way to go, girls, I'm like, who
Speaker 2: are you guys? Can you please get on my personal
Speaker 2: Twitter and start guessing me.
Speaker 1: You're lifting Roppo on her personal guys, Glitter Cheese, get
Speaker 1: on it. She needs this. But let's get going because
Speaker 1: we've got a great episode for today. It's one of
Speaker 1: the most haunting and favorite episodes, and it's probably one
Speaker 1: of the ones I've seen the most times. I've seen
Speaker 1: it so many times. You say that every single episode
Speaker 1: Lisa Haunting, you are just haunted. I know Lisa is
Speaker 1: perpetually haunted, but I have seen this one like several
Speaker 1: several times. All right, let's get into it. This episode
Speaker 1: is stranger. It is season ten, episode eleven. We open
Speaker 1: the episode with a little boy running scared down a
Speaker 1: hallway like a little red Herring for the show and
Speaker 1: his mom. He runs to his mom's arms and it
Speaker 1: turns out it's just his aunt, Nikki is chasing him
Speaker 1: in a mask and she's like, take a chill pill, mom,
Speaker 1: We're just playing.
Speaker 2: But also, what is that mask? A burned man?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: The mask is pretty terrifying. It is like just like
Speaker 1: a ghoule mask. And then in the living room, Erica
Speaker 1: and Nikki's parents are playing Wei. It's just like a
Speaker 1: real sign of the times. It's just like two old
Speaker 1: people playing like we baseball, And I kind of love
Speaker 1: that the mom who I recognize and looked up from her.
Speaker 1: IMDb plays Jesse Pinkman's mom and breaking bed. So she
Speaker 1: answers the door and a girl is standing there and
Speaker 1: she's like, can I help you? And the girl's like,
Speaker 1: it's me, and then the mom doesn't recognize her, and
Speaker 1: then Erica comes up behind her and notices the shamrock
Speaker 1: tattoo on her hand and goes, mom, it's Heather and
Speaker 1: gives her a big hug. Now he cuts to Olivia
Speaker 1: and Elliot getting a scoop from another detective. Heather Hallander
Speaker 1: went missing at age fourteen, four years earlier. I just
Speaker 1: don't really buy the people's faces changed that much from
Speaker 1: age fourteen to eighteen. But it does turn out that
Speaker 1: she was much heavier when she went missing, and like
Speaker 1: now is super super skinny, so that may have changed.
Speaker 2: What she looked like.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. It just seems weird. To me,
Speaker 1: and then the detective reveals that she ran Everyone thought
Speaker 1: she ran away because her parents were about to ship
Speaker 1: her off to Da Da dn fat camp, which is
Speaker 1: what they call it in the episode. And Lisa's going
Speaker 1: to talk for a second about her actual experience with
Speaker 1: a weight loss camp, and so if anyone has a
Speaker 1: problem with that, please fast forward a couple minutes. Lisa,
Speaker 1: I didn't know if maybe you wanted to weigh in
Speaker 1: here as someone who's been a counselor at a fat camp.
Speaker 2: I did work at fat camp. I would just say
Speaker 2: the one I was that was immoral, but I'm sure
Speaker 2: there are some good health based ones. But they were
Speaker 2: giving these kids diet doritos and making them run up
Speaker 2: a hill and yeah, it was intense.
Speaker 1: Okay, meanwhile, what's a diet dorito?
Speaker 2: Can I have some?
Speaker 1: I didn't know.
Speaker 2: But what was very very cool it was the fat
Speaker 2: camp that was featured on MTV's True Life, So obviously,
Speaker 2: at twenty years old, I was very thrilled about all
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: And it was just like the movies like I had.
Speaker 2: I found bubblegum and hair dryers and rolled up socks.
Speaker 2: There were snacks like candies were everywhere I did find.
Speaker 2: I mean I had the teen girls, so I also
Speaker 2: found bags of prescription pills that weren't allowed.
Speaker 1: And it was a dark place.
Speaker 2: Because our number one job was we had to walk
Speaker 2: around the camp at night to make sure people weren't fucking.
Speaker 2: Oh those kids are horny. They're horny. They're horny like
Speaker 2: our listeners. We so we would have to take flashlights
Speaker 2: and go on nookie patrol to make sure people weren't humping.
Speaker 2: And we didn't have like a baby being born at camp.
Speaker 1: Yeah. See I worked at an all girls camp, so
Speaker 1: I didn't really have to deal with that excepted dances
Speaker 1: with the brother camp. But sounds like your camp. It
Speaker 1: was a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the population is four girls to one guy,
Speaker 2: so it was just like people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the guys were raking it in. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Wow, it was a wild place. But I got fired
Speaker 2: because I failed a breathalyzer and I was underage. And
Speaker 2: then I had a great time in New York City after.
Speaker 1: They bussed me. Yes, I always hear about your trip
Speaker 1: to New York after you got fired from Vacuum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the firing sucked and I got betrayed by my
Speaker 2: co counselor, and she told on me because I was
Speaker 2: wasted the night before and I was underage.
Speaker 1: Judas, Judas for sure.
Speaker 2: She was from Oregon, and I fucking hate her, and
Speaker 2: she talked to her boyfriend on the phone every night.
Speaker 2: I just it's like, let a girl be hungover. Like,
Speaker 2: I can't believe you would want someone to get fired
Speaker 2: for drinking too much at twenty years old. Yeah, for
Speaker 2: being fun. It's not like I had to like six
Speaker 2: year olds. I had seventeen year old girls, which one
Speaker 2: of them is my friend. One of my campers was
Speaker 2: eighteen years old from Sweden and she's a famous opera singer.
Speaker 2: But also you're like an adult at eighteen in Europe,
Speaker 2: so it was weird, Like she was like, what are
Speaker 2: these rules?
Speaker 1: I can drink and live a life in Sweden.
Speaker 2: But after I got fired, I was wheeled away in
Speaker 2: a golf cart and she just waved to me slowly.
Speaker 1: And as I got sent to New York, one of us,
Speaker 1: oh and I walked on fire.
Speaker 2: We had like a special event and we wrote things
Speaker 2: that bother us on boards and then we broke the boards,
Speaker 2: and then we burnt the boards, and then we walked
Speaker 2: on the burning boards, like we got over our issues.
Speaker 2: Should we do that when you come to La Yes,
Speaker 2: burn some boards.
Speaker 1: We'll do it in my backyard, on my fake grass
Speaker 1: where our friends already burnt a hole in my one.
Speaker 1: So the detective shows them the old missing poster. You
Speaker 1: see the like the missing Heather, and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess this could be her. But this girl Heather
Speaker 1: that's back now says that she's been a sex slave
Speaker 1: for the past four years. So now we're at the
Speaker 1: Hollanders home. Olivia and Elliott go to interview Heather and
Speaker 1: she won't, like immediately come out of her room, and
Speaker 1: we're getting a lot of attitude from Niki, the quote
Speaker 1: unquote screw up middle chip that she calls herself, and
Speaker 1: she just freely admits that she used to call her
Speaker 1: sister howther Heffer, and that that's kind of what happened
Speaker 1: the day she went missing. She stormed out of the
Speaker 1: house because she was upset that her sister called her
Speaker 1: this name. And Nicky's like, she probably blames me for
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And then Heather comes out and is like,
Speaker 1: I never blamed you one time, and she is just
Speaker 1: so self centered.
Speaker 2: Your sister comes home from being a sex slave and missing,
Speaker 2: and you're just like, oh, so you blame me, huh, yeah,
Speaker 2: Nicki sucks. She looks like she loves Paramore, which is
Speaker 2: a great band, but that's her vibe, very Avril Levine type,
Speaker 2: you know, Kristin Ritterer another breaking bad reference, but looks
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, punk rock. So Benson notices that Heather
Speaker 1: has already showered, and Nicky's like, yeah, three times. Hope
Speaker 1: no one else needed hot water. It's like, your sister
Speaker 1: was a sex slave. She can shower as many times.
Speaker 2: As she needs. And do you pay the water bill?
Speaker 1: I don't think so, it seems like your parents do.
Speaker 1: It's very hard response. We're definitely getting some red flag
Speaker 1: vibes from Nicki. So now they're getting like their story
Speaker 1: from how He Elliott and Olivia, and she says that
Speaker 1: a man grabbed her. She doesn't know his name. She's
Speaker 1: been with him the whole time. He made her call
Speaker 1: him daddy, and he kept her in a concrete room
Speaker 1: and then one day he was drunk and forgot to
Speaker 1: put the padlock on the door, and she just ran
Speaker 1: out into the basement up the stairs and kept running,
Speaker 1: she doesn't know where or how far. Then she says,
Speaker 1: the last time he sexually assaulted her was yesterday. So
Speaker 1: Elliott gathers her clothes and Olivia is like, what about
Speaker 1: your underwear? And she's like, he never let me wear
Speaker 1: any very creepy we see. There's like a long scene
Speaker 1: of Heather getting her physical exam as she recounts like
Speaker 1: how the man grabbed her and like what her life
Speaker 1: was like in this basement, and like she said, basically
Speaker 1: what happened was she after she got into the fight
Speaker 1: with Nikki, she was crying in the street. A man
Speaker 1: came up to her and said she was too pretty
Speaker 1: to be crying. So please don't let a man say
Speaker 1: that to you. We're all pretty enough to be crying.
Speaker 1: You can cry whenever you want. You're too pretty to
Speaker 1: cry is basically a level up from you're pretty when
Speaker 1: you smile. So he lured her into this van. She
Speaker 1: didn't get in, but he put ether or something in
Speaker 1: a rag over her face to make her pass out,
Speaker 1: and then all she remembers is she woke up on
Speaker 1: a concrete floor naked. She screamed for help, pounded on
Speaker 1: the door. There was a mattress on the ground. She
Speaker 1: said she just laid down and cried, and then he
Speaker 1: would come in. He would lock the door from the
Speaker 1: inside and like get on top of her. And basically
Speaker 1: she was like, if I couldn't be nice, he'd let
Speaker 1: me starve to death. And she thought she went a
Speaker 1: week without eating, and it was actually two days. So
Speaker 1: I think that just goes to show how long we
Speaker 1: think we can survive without food, but mentally it's much
Speaker 1: less time. He kept her in the room the whole time,
Speaker 1: no windows, no running water. He would lower a garden
Speaker 1: hose down and they were like, what did you use
Speaker 1: for a toilet? And she was like a lawn chair
Speaker 1: with a bucket over under it, So pretty pretty horrendous.
Speaker 1: They try to retrace her steps. They're in Columbus Circle,
Speaker 1: which seems like I don't know, I don't know how.
Speaker 2: Many confusing place in Manhattan, like besides anything downtown because
Speaker 2: there's no numbers, but that's circle and how the streets
Speaker 2: go with the park. I have meetings there and get
Speaker 2: lost every single time.
Speaker 1: Right, because there's different the subways get out at different
Speaker 1: points of the circle, so you don't know. If you
Speaker 1: don't know the area. I used to live near there,
Speaker 1: so I know the area. But like you, if you
Speaker 1: don't know you're north or south, you can literally just
Speaker 1: end up very lost there because it is just like
Speaker 1: a huge rotunda. But it doesn't strike me as like
Speaker 1: the kind of neighborhood where I don't know. I think,
Speaker 1: if you're living near Columbus Circle, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: guess you could have a basement with a with a
Speaker 1: sex lab and and I suppose anywhere. So I don't
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. So she thinks Olivia is
Speaker 1: judging her for not getting out sooner, and Olivia's like, girl, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not. Heather gets really confused. There's like the camera
Speaker 1: is spinning, so we kind of are like having the
Speaker 1: same feeling as her of like where am I where
Speaker 1: is this? Like car at car horns are beeping. It
Speaker 1: starts to freak out. She's basically having like a PTSD moment,
Speaker 1: and she just asks if she can do this the
Speaker 1: next stay so she can be with her family. So
Speaker 1: the vessidence Stabler drop Heather at home at the top
Speaker 1: of X two. The press suddenly shows up and starts
Speaker 1: snapping pictures of her, which I just think is like
Speaker 1: so wild. I mean, do they honestly do that? Do
Speaker 1: they get in the faces of like people that were
Speaker 1: captured as sex slaves?
Speaker 2: And like I thought there were rape protection laws where
Speaker 2: you couldn't just publish photos of people that have been right, I.
Speaker 1: Think there are. That's what's like so wild about what
Speaker 1: happens next, Like Elliott basically tells the photographers to erase
Speaker 1: the photos and he kind of just moves menacingly towards
Speaker 1: this photographer who backs up, because I think we would
Speaker 1: all back up if Christopher Maloney was coming at us
Speaker 1: at a court. Let go fully in, yeah, or just
Speaker 1: lean in. But you know, if he was coming at
Speaker 1: you with his classic Elliott anger eyes, I think you'd
Speaker 1: probably get moving. And so this guy eventually falls breaks
Speaker 1: the camera, and then the next scene is Craigan reading
Speaker 1: off like these demands from the newspaper.
Speaker 2: He works for the leg but also the journal so
Speaker 2: there's a journalist and a cameraman. But the journalist is like,
Speaker 2: I'm a young teen sold into sex slaver. We gotta
Speaker 2: sell paper, Like do you hear the words coming out
Speaker 2: of your mouth? You fucking trauma lunatic?
Speaker 1: And I think the new York Ledger is supposed to
Speaker 1: be the New York Post like the entire time, like
Speaker 1: just kind of like a CD paper that people still read.
Speaker 1: But is like, really, I've said it before on the show,
Speaker 1: I think the New York Post should only be used
Speaker 1: to line bird cages. But Craigan's reading off like that
Speaker 1: the camera costs five thousand dollars and they want disciplinary
Speaker 1: action against Elliot. Elliott's like, I never touched the guy,
Speaker 1: and he's right, he never did, so the guy just fell.
Speaker 1: But then they pull up the paper and the paper
Speaker 1: says sex slave in the city as a fan of
Speaker 1: sex in the city. Not a cool pun, not funny, Like,
Speaker 1: I just don't that that's the kind of shit that
Speaker 1: they put on the New York Post headlines all the time.
Speaker 2: I would like to say I was in Ireland once
Speaker 2: and there was a store called snacks in the city,
Speaker 2: which is a good pun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure sure. Heather's sister, Erica, the older sister, shows
Speaker 1: up at the precinct. She's pissed about the photo in
Speaker 1: the paper. She complains about the miss person's detective. She's like,
Speaker 1: all they ever did was call us once a month
Speaker 1: to see if we'd heard from her, and like she
Speaker 1: was like, I had to set up my own website
Speaker 1: to get tips, so I and then they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: did you get any and she's like not really. So
Speaker 1: she feels guilty for not going after Heather that day
Speaker 1: four years ago. She kind of reveals that. So then
Speaker 1: we find out later that Nicki, the bitch sister, of
Speaker 1: course showed Heather the photos. So now Heather doesn't want
Speaker 1: to leave the house, doesn't want to go do the
Speaker 1: scene re enactment to find out where she ran from
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Munch feels like something's up with Nicki.
Speaker 1: Munch gets a little bit of like a light bulb.
Speaker 1: He's like, I mean, I think maybe she saw her
Speaker 1: sister get abducted, Like her bad behavior could be guilt.
Speaker 2: And also with like her photo being published, her abuser
Speaker 2: could see that and no like and that track her down.
Speaker 2: It's like so fucked up and irresponsible.
Speaker 1: It's very very fucked up. So basically, Olivia says that
Speaker 1: the medical exam revealed that she did have scarring from
Speaker 1: like long term abuse, but no fluids. No fluids were
Speaker 1: in the exam, but they did find semen on her dress,
Speaker 1: so that's good. That they got some evidence, and then,
Speaker 1: of course, exactly the right moment, Munch gets a tip
Speaker 1: a phone call. So Munch and Finn go to see
Speaker 1: this priest who says he witnessed something. Munch goes, it's kosher,
Speaker 1: like he always has to get a Jewish joke in
Speaker 1: which I love. This priest says that he's seen Heather
Speaker 1: at Mass the last four Sundays and she seemed like
Speaker 1: she was in a spiritual crisis. She was with a
Speaker 1: man in his fifties, but it's not a man who's
Speaker 1: on the membership role, so they can't give him any
Speaker 1: identifying information about this guy. And the priest said, The
Speaker 1: priest goes, I mean I wasn't comfortable dropping a dime.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, cool, priest, what's the light
Speaker 1: the lingo here?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: So he the priest is like, should I talk to her?
Speaker 1: Munch is like, we got it. Olivia asks Heather if
Speaker 1: the man ever took her outside, and Heather like very
Speaker 1: fervently denies it, and then Olivia asks her about the church,
Speaker 1: and she freaks out on Olivia and tells her to leave.
Speaker 1: And at the precinct they're all chatting. Wong says that
Speaker 1: albursts of rage, aren't weird abuse victim? And Munch goes
Speaker 1: if she was abused, and it's like they already got
Speaker 1: the medical exam saying that she had trauma like physical
Speaker 1: like it was already confirmed that she's been abused. So
Speaker 1: I don't really know why Munch is being a jackass here,
Speaker 1: and Cragan's like, for all we know, she ran away
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend. It's like, this has been confirmed. You
Speaker 1: guys need to shut the hell up.
Speaker 2: And you're in the special victim and you've been there
Speaker 2: just to reminder seasons now you know.
Speaker 1: They're all abused.
Speaker 2: Like I just love that there's always one arguing when
Speaker 2: it's been proven tie every week for a decade.
Speaker 1: And then someone's like, and what about her vitamin D deficiency?
Speaker 1: And then Munch has like this bizarro theory about how
Speaker 1: we all have vitamin D deficiencies now because of too
Speaker 1: much sunscreen. I'm like, okay, okay. Cragan's like, our choices
Speaker 1: are bone disease or skin cancer. You can't win. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you guys are so New Yorky, like you're allowed to
Speaker 1: get ten minutes of sun a day. Wang explains that
Speaker 1: Heather was totally under this guy's control, so taking her
Speaker 1: out in public might have been like the ultimate power
Speaker 1: play for him. And Elliot's like, why not scream in
Speaker 1: the church? And I'm like, do you guys remember what
Speaker 1: happened to Jeffrey Dahmer's victim who escaped. Jeffrey Dahmer had
Speaker 1: a victim who escaped, went up to two girls. He
Speaker 1: was so drugged that he couldn't speak. The police showed up,
Speaker 1: the police gave him back to Jeffrey Dahmer. So I
Speaker 1: don't think that there's any guarantees that screaming in church
Speaker 1: is going to get you saved, and it's probably going
Speaker 1: to get you ultimately very punished by this person that's
Speaker 1: keeping you captives. So, and you know we've learned about
Speaker 1: there is also the Stockholm syndrome. Yeah, and Whong talks
Speaker 1: about another case where the captor and the victim went
Speaker 1: out and did karaoke together, so like this has a precedent,
Speaker 1: you know. So then Benson gets a call that Heather
Speaker 1: has attempted suicide. Since she goes to the hospital, they
Speaker 1: rush her into surgery. Eventually she's okay. Olivia goes to
Speaker 1: see her and apologizes and Heather said, She's like, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry I made you so mad. Like Olivia feels like
Speaker 1: responsible for this suicide attempt, and Heather's like, I didn't
Speaker 1: do this because of you. I just dreamed of being
Speaker 1: back with my family for so long, and I feel
Speaker 1: like a freak. I don't belong anywhere. Nobody's comfortable around me.
Speaker 1: NICKI hates me. My mom will look me in the eye,
Speaker 1: and so like, Olivia tries to comfort her, and Elliott
Speaker 1: goes to talk to the doctor, like any tips did
Speaker 1: she say anything when she was under in a seizure
Speaker 1: or anything like that, And the doctor mentions he goes, well,
Speaker 1: Heather's parents are both type A and Heather is type B,
Speaker 1: so there is no way she can be their child.
Speaker 2: And this is a classic SVU tidbit, a lesson that
Speaker 2: I will keep forever. But I guess right before surgery
Speaker 2: or anything, they always have to ask the parent for
Speaker 2: blood transfusions because there could be.
Speaker 1: Some cheating or adopting or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like that's something that I've kept with
Speaker 2: me from this episode forever.
Speaker 1: But they always have to check too. They always do
Speaker 1: like a rapid test on their blood test so they
Speaker 1: can avoid like lawsuits. So at the top of act three,
Speaker 1: here we are. There's no way Heather is the child
Speaker 1: of this woman because she has admitted to not having
Speaker 1: any kind of like infidelities or anything. Olivia is like,
Speaker 1: how could her own family not recognize her? And then
Speaker 1: they talk about the age difference and the weight loss.
Speaker 1: I don't really think she looks like the old Heather.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys. So then they zoom
Speaker 1: in on the tech like they overlay their faces first,
Speaker 1: which is interesting, like her face is more like oval,
Speaker 1: Like even if you lose weight, your face shape kind
Speaker 1: of stays the same. So and then they zoom in
Speaker 1: on the tattoo and it turns out it's a mirror
Speaker 1: image tattoo. It's not like you don't if you overlay them.
Speaker 1: The little stem of the shamrock gos the other way.
Speaker 1: So Elliot's like, oh, she's a con artist. So Olivia
Speaker 1: goes to talk to Heather first and plays some.
Speaker 2: Passive aggressive games. I would say, Olivia is there to play, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Olivia shows up. Heather's working on study guides
Speaker 1: for college. It seems like a real bounce back from
Speaker 1: like yesterday you tried to kill yourself and today you're like,
Speaker 1: my dad says I should go to college, Like okay,
Speaker 1: everyone deals with trauma in their own way. I was like,
Speaker 1: if I was in the hospital, i'd be watching SVU,
Speaker 1: but you do your guides. Olivia has Heather's old clarinet
Speaker 1: because we'd learned earlier in the episode that Heather was
Speaker 1: first chair clarinet and had actually been kidnapped the day
Speaker 1: before the spring concert. So Olivia's like, play us a
Speaker 1: little ditty, Heather. Then Heather's like, I don't really, I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think I could. I don't want to, like,
Speaker 1: and then she is like what's the story behind the tattoo?
Speaker 1: And Heather's like, I got it at a tattoo parlor
Speaker 1: and Olivia is like, actually you didn't. Nicki's boyfriend gave
Speaker 1: that tattoo to Heather and they've all got in big trouble.
Speaker 1: So we're going to run this DNA and we're going
Speaker 1: to find out that you're not Heather. Heather breaks down.
Speaker 1: Olivia's like pissed off and is like is any of
Speaker 1: this real? Like why would you do this? And She's
Speaker 1: like because I needed a family and they needed a daughter.
Speaker 1: So now we're at the Hollanders home. Erica calls Heather,
Speaker 1: let's call her Feather now because she's fake Heather. So
Speaker 1: Erica calls Feather a rancid bitch. Nicki says, I knew it,
Speaker 1: and the mother knew there was a connection missing, but
Speaker 1: blamed herself. And it turned out that Feather got all
Speaker 1: these details from the Internet and then some of it
Speaker 1: when she arrived from like looking at scrap books and
Speaker 1: like picking up on family like chatter, and they think
Speaker 1: she's an edp and emotionally disturbed person. And the family
Speaker 1: wants her arrested, Like who's paying for her in this hospital?
Speaker 2: Like? Get her out again? Nikki, so concerned with finances.
Speaker 2: I do not our insurance. You are a dependent, Okay,
Speaker 2: we know that you are not paying your own taxes,
Speaker 2: Like I just have never seen such a fiscally like
Speaker 2: conservative punk life.
Speaker 1: Yeah the water this hospital bed girl? Enough? How much
Speaker 1: is your hair dye budget?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: So now we are in court. Heather is being arraigned
Speaker 1: one count of identity theft, one count of fraud. The
Speaker 1: judge is Judge Andrews, who I recognize, so I looked
Speaker 1: her up. The actresses named Lindsay Krauss. She's played a
Speaker 1: judge on seven episodes of SBU and this was her
Speaker 1: first appearance. Fun fact, she was married to the playwright
Speaker 1: David Mammott and is the mother of Zosha Mammot aka
Speaker 1: Shirshana from Girls.
Speaker 2: And she has Jim teacher vibes. Oh, I think she
Speaker 2: has rich lady vibes. She has rich lady vibes to me.
Speaker 1: She she has almost an accent of like, young lady,
Speaker 1: this prosecutor is giving you an open window.
Speaker 2: Like maybe, yeah, I'm just going off physicality. Sure reminds
Speaker 2: me of my junior high gym teacher.
Speaker 1: Is so bad with that hair. She she does have
Speaker 1: a short haircut and sort of a t and his tan,
Speaker 1: which is every gym teacher I've ever had as well.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I would love to have a show Shana
Speaker 2: SVU episode.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think she would be really good. I
Speaker 1: don't know what she's doing. We should try to work
Speaker 1: that out. Let's call some people. She's doing indie movies.
Speaker 2: She's doing indie movies, but now you know, she's probably
Speaker 2: pickling stuff. I bet she's gardening, pickling, maybe making resin necklaces. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Feather is living a really bad life, like basically
Speaker 1: at court and she's like she turns around and begs
Speaker 1: the Hollanders, like not to do this to her. There's
Speaker 1: Gray Lick, my least favorite person is They're asking for
Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars bail and her lawyer's like, she's indigen
Speaker 1: she has no money or friends or family, and Gray
Speaker 1: look's like, well, if she would give a name, she'd
Speaker 1: be less of a flight risk. The judge is like,
Speaker 1: this is a window for you, my darling, and Feather
Speaker 1: won't do it. Erica has like a full freak attack
Speaker 1: like breakdown in the courtroom and like because she's convinced
Speaker 1: that Feather knows where Heather is, and you know, Nicky's
Speaker 1: like she doesn't know anything, and Erica's going crazy. This
Speaker 1: is at the point of the episode where I realized
Speaker 1: that Erica has something I like to call Broadway face,
Speaker 1: Like I can just immediately tell that Erica is a
Speaker 1: Broadway star. And of course I looked her up and
Speaker 1: she is two time Tony nominee Kate Baldwin, So why
Speaker 1: when she was screaming, I was like, this is a
Speaker 1: woman who knows how to play to the back of
Speaker 1: the theater, Like, so she is a Broadway gal. Wait
Speaker 1: what plays was she? She was in Hello Dolly with
Speaker 1: About Middler, I think, and she's been in like is
Speaker 1: it Finnian's Rainbow? I think, like she's been in a
Speaker 1: bunsh of.
Speaker 2: I saw Hello Dolly with Bet Midler twice.
Speaker 1: Oh, I bet you maybe, yeah, you probably saw her.
Speaker 1: I saw that twice. I was dying to see that,
Speaker 1: and I went to New York the day after it closed.
Speaker 2: Anyway, well, I went one to previews and like someone
Speaker 2: had a heart attack in the audience. She messed up words.
Speaker 2: She it was like it was truly before the premiere.
Speaker 2: It was the previews. So it was kind of a mess.
Speaker 2: Not really it was amazing, and you know, I cried,
Speaker 2: I'm you know, seeing Bette Midler. But when I went
Speaker 2: a few months later, I felt really lucky that I
Speaker 2: got to see it a few months in and see
Speaker 2: Bette Midler just like fully in it fully like it
Speaker 2: was awesome.
Speaker 1: I'm still like devastated I didn't get to see it.
Speaker 1: Bet Miller's like my childhood and like adulthood hero. I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with her. So Munch and gray Lick basically get Erica.
Speaker 1: Once she's calmed down, they get her to the precinct
Speaker 1: where they kind of like revealed to her like you're
Speaker 1: the one that gave all this information to this girl,
Speaker 1: Like everything that you posted about on your blog helped
Speaker 1: her build this woman, like build like a case to
Speaker 1: become this your sister. So she's humiliated. Well, she kind
Speaker 1: of calms down and is like, Okay, this isn't like
Speaker 1: a huge conspiracy where this girl knows where my sister
Speaker 1: is and like did a body snatching thing, and like
Speaker 1: we'll try to replace her. Elliot says, Sbu is taking
Speaker 1: over Heather's case. We're really going to try to find her.
Speaker 1: Olivia tracks down where Feather got the tattoo and finds
Speaker 1: out that the guy who paid for it with a
Speaker 1: credit card is named Carl Vasco, and he matches the
Speaker 1: description that the priest gave of the man from church.
Speaker 1: So they go to visit this guy, Carl Vasco. He
Speaker 1: fucking runs immediately iced Tea Sucker punches him while he's running.
Speaker 2: Well, this had some of my favorite moments because as
Speaker 2: he starts running, Stabler says, we got a runner. And
Speaker 2: then when Finn punches him. He goes, we got a dropper. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I liked that, Yeah for sure, lot because it's
Speaker 2: not even a saying, it's just like it's just I
Speaker 2: don't know, I really loved it. Right.
Speaker 1: So Olivia does some very questionably legal police work where
Speaker 1: she goes, oh, I thought I heard him come down
Speaker 1: into the basement, so that she can check out the
Speaker 1: basement and see if like feather story checks out. Olivia
Speaker 1: goes down into the basement finds exactly what she had described.
Speaker 1: The mattress on the floor, the tub, the lawn chair, toilet,
Speaker 1: like it's all there. It's like a true, true nightmare.
Speaker 2: And I know it's because these people are sadists and evil,
Speaker 2: but like, if you're gonna like hold someone captive forever,
Speaker 2: why not make it nice? I never why not?
Speaker 1: I just so yeah, her a bed.
Speaker 2: I just don't get it. I mean, I get there,
Speaker 2: I shouldn't be able to understand it, but I just
Speaker 2: I'm like her, just get some plumbing. What's the issue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay. So Warner says they got DNA from Vasco,
Speaker 1: which he did not have to offer because basically Finn
Speaker 1: gave him a bloody ass nose. So his DNA was
Speaker 1: all over the place and it matches the semen that
Speaker 1: was on Feathers dress. So Olivia's like, great, about to
Speaker 1: leave the room, classic Warner move where she goes, I'm
Speaker 1: not finished, okay, and.
Speaker 2: Her curls are looking extra luscious.
Speaker 1: And yeah, she's got that bounce.
Speaker 2: Baby.
Speaker 1: She ran the DNA from Feather's rape kit, found out
Speaker 1: that her name is Kristin Vusilik. She is in Kotis
Speaker 1: for being kidnapped six years earlier. Her mother thought it
Speaker 1: was a parental kidnapping by her husband, Carl Vusilik flashes
Speaker 1: a picture of Carl Vusilik. It is Carl Vasco. So
Speaker 1: he held his own daughter in a dungeon for six
Speaker 1: years as a sex slave. That's like a big twist.
Speaker 1: Then we see a great scene that Olivia and Elliott
Speaker 1: do all the time where they kind of do like
Speaker 1: a good cop bad cop, they do sort of like
Speaker 1: a feminist misogynist thing together where like Elliot's like, Eh,
Speaker 1: you're on the rag, get out of here. Let me
Speaker 1: talk to my man, face to mace. Basically, what's crazy
Speaker 1: is when they first start questioning Carl, He's like, I'm
Speaker 1: a good man, I pay my taxes, I go to church,
Speaker 1: I volunteer, I'm a pillar of the community. It's like what, Like,
Speaker 1: how can you be so delusional? And then he's like,
Speaker 1: they're like, how about your ex wife Marcy? And he's like,
Speaker 1: she's a shrieking, man hating, ball busting bitch, not too
Speaker 1: different from some of the reviews we've gotten for this
Speaker 1: podcast Lisa, and I'm like, oh no, she's a man
Speaker 1: hating ballbusting bitch after being married to a prince like you,
Speaker 1: How is that possible? Elliott kind of like, though gets
Speaker 1: tries to get on his side, is like, I know
Speaker 1: the type. They get into a fight right in front
Speaker 1: of him, like it's obviously a game that they play.
Speaker 1: So Elliott appears like an ally and he's like, I
Speaker 1: want to talk to Kristin, like she's a good girl,
Speaker 1: she'd never say a word about me. And then he goes,
Speaker 1: where's Kristin? I want to see her, And Olivia goes
Speaker 1: and I'd like to see you castrated with a rusty
Speaker 1: steak knife. Neither are going to happen, but we can
Speaker 1: both dream, which is very similar to a line she
Speaker 1: has in another episode where she goes and i'd like
Speaker 1: your balls in a blunder, But ain't life a bitch.
Speaker 1: That's like a very Olivia. It's a very Olivia delivery.
Speaker 1: And so then they get into a thing where Elliott's like,
Speaker 1: you need to take a sick day, you're on the
Speaker 1: rag and she goes, you touch me again, I'll see
Speaker 1: you for sexual her husband. These two are ahead of
Speaker 1: the times. So Olivia goes to talk to Kristen.
Speaker 2: Well, first she she exits the interrogation room and Craigan
Speaker 2: acts like he just saw Yeah, whoa, guys, that was great,
Speaker 2: and she's like panting like She's like, yeah, that was incredible, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because she loved where their chemistry comes from. His scenes
Speaker 1: like this where they act like they want to kill
Speaker 1: each other and then have makeup sex. Okay, so she says,
Speaker 1: So she goes to talk to Kristen in the tombs
Speaker 1: because she she's already like on her way to or
Speaker 1: she's in Rikers, like and she's like, I cannot let
Speaker 1: this girl spend a night in Rikers after what's happened
Speaker 1: to her. So she explains to Olivia how she gained
Speaker 1: Carl's trust over time he started letting her out. She
Speaker 1: had to work up the courage to run, and when
Speaker 1: she got out, she didn't turn him in because she
Speaker 1: just wanted to kind of join the Hollander family. And
Speaker 1: she was so ashamed of her what her father did.
Speaker 1: And Olivia's like, why didn't you go home to your mom?
Speaker 1: And she's like, my mom died. My dad showed me
Speaker 1: the news clipping three years ago. And Olivia's like, that's
Speaker 1: a lie. Your mom is alive and has never stopped
Speaker 1: looking for you. So they let her out. She reunites
Speaker 1: with her mom. Beautiful moment. Carl is romanded without bail,
Speaker 1: Olivia to give Kristin and Marcy the good news that
Speaker 1: he's not getting bail and Kristin has gone missing. She
Speaker 1: went to go quote unquote talk to someone and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: the only people she knows are the Holenders. So they
Speaker 1: go to the Holenders. The mom is like a terrible liar.
Speaker 1: They're like, have you seen Kristin? She's like, no, I haven't.
Speaker 1: Like she's just like she really cannot lie, and then
Speaker 1: Erica is like, wait, we just saw her and Nikki together.
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? So then the mom admits
Speaker 1: that Nicki said she knew Kristin wasn't Heather, and that
Speaker 1: she better leave before the same thing happens to her
Speaker 1: that happened to the real Heather. So Erica's freaking out.
Speaker 1: She's like, mom, you knew that Nicki had something to
Speaker 1: do with Heather's disappearance, and the mom's like, I did,
Speaker 1: but not until much later. I didn't want to lose
Speaker 1: two daughters. And I want to mention there's another episode
Speaker 1: like this on SVU where a girl comes back and
Speaker 1: says that she's this missing daughter. That turns out the
Speaker 1: brother killed her and the father helped cover it up
Speaker 1: because much like this woman, she didn't want he didn't
Speaker 1: want to lose both of his children, which is allegedly
Speaker 1: what people think happened in the Jambonnet Ramsey case. But
Speaker 1: this is for another day. So we want to know
Speaker 1: where did Nicki kill Heather. So now they're at this
Speaker 1: rooftop where Nicki is making Kristin climb a ladder of
Speaker 1: some kind of like smokestack or chimney. I don't really
Speaker 1: know what the function of this thing is in New
Speaker 1: York City, and you've got to come up and see
Speaker 1: what happened to the real Heather. Is what Nicki's saying.
Speaker 2: But does this happen because Kristin has been abused for
Speaker 2: so long that she doesn't know how to say no
Speaker 2: and she's going along with it Like I would punch
Speaker 2: Nicky in the face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems weird, like Nicki doesn't have a weapon
Speaker 1: or anything that's compelling Kristin to go with her. I
Speaker 1: don't really know what's up, how she's made.
Speaker 2: Maybe she's always confusing and.
Speaker 1: Nikki out like Kristen's kind of slight, and Nicky seems
Speaker 1: like she could really like cut a bitch, So I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe she's just worried she's gonna like beat
Speaker 1: the shit out of her. I don't really know what's
Speaker 1: going on, but she's like trying to get her up
Speaker 1: this ladder, and Nicki's basically like Heather caught me doing drugs.
Speaker 1: She was going to tell mom and dad, so she
Speaker 1: killed her. It just seems crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, Also my favorite thing ever is you know Stable
Speaker 2: and Benson show up to the crime scene because it's
Speaker 2: their job, and then so is Heather's sister, Like what,
Speaker 2: I just love that they brought her along to this
Speaker 2: crime situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Nikki is about to like jump into the chimney. Again.
Speaker 1: I don't know what this chimney thing is. I don't know,
Speaker 1: well that immediately kill you. Where does it lead? I
Speaker 1: don't know what this thing is. But she's like, you've
Speaker 1: always hated me, the whole family has. And then they
Speaker 1: eventually talk her into coming down, and on her way down,
Speaker 1: she just kind of looks at Kristin and is like,
Speaker 1: the police gave up looking for Heather a long time ago,
Speaker 1: why did you pick us? But in a way, it's
Speaker 1: good she did, because now Heather's murder is solved.
Speaker 2: But where is the body?
Speaker 1: Is it in this heat thing, in that like smoke
Speaker 1: stack thing?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Which at this point it's been four years, so
Speaker 1: it's probably like, you know, just decomposed bones, you know.
Speaker 1: But I'm just really glad that Kristen gets to be
Speaker 1: with her mother.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: Well, wait until we get into the real If you
Speaker 1: guys think that was traumatic, wait until we get into
Speaker 1: the real crimes.
Speaker 2: Louise and I want to mention the woman. I mean,
Speaker 2: great actors everywhere, but she just kills it like she's
Speaker 2: such a good actress.
Speaker 1: The woman who plays feather slash Kristen. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: that was stranger. So hangout and we will be right
Speaker 1: back with the real life cases that inspire this episode.
Speaker 2: So this episode is based on a couple crimes and
Speaker 2: one of them is the case of Frederick Borden Boredan.
Speaker 1: I don't yees French, but.
Speaker 2: And there's a documentary made about him in twenty twelve
Speaker 2: called The Impostor. Fun fact, I did see it on
Speaker 2: my twenty fifth birthday with my ex boyfriend, which is
Speaker 2: insane because like you're supposed to celebrate, and after we
Speaker 2: had sushi with my family, we went to watch crime documentary.
Speaker 2: That was the most insane thing I had ever seen.
Speaker 2: It's truly unbelievable from top to bottom. But so in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, a thirteen year old boy, Nicholas Barclay,
Speaker 2: went missing from San Antonio, Texas, and it didn't make
Speaker 2: the news, you know. The mom, Beverly says, it was
Speaker 2: news to us, but no one really cared. And the
Speaker 2: last day, what happened was he went to play basketball
Speaker 2: and he was supposed to be home by dinner and
Speaker 2: he called home but his mother, Beverly, was asleep. His
Speaker 2: older brother Jason answered the phone and said, Mom's asleep,
Speaker 2: walk home, and that was the last anyone had seen Nicholas,
Speaker 2: So that was it. And then there's a sister, Carrie,
Speaker 2: and she this was really interesting to me. I'd never
Speaker 2: thought about that, but she goes the emotions of when
Speaker 2: you find out something like this, she said, twenty four
Speaker 2: hours of crying, then you're worried, sick, and then you
Speaker 2: get mad, then get scared, and then you get empowered.
Speaker 2: So they really did try to find him, but they
Speaker 2: didn't really have big time support in any way. And
Speaker 2: he was a really cute, blonde, really fun kid, like
Speaker 2: all his whole movies seem like I would have loved
Speaker 2: to babysit this kid. So then the documentary goes to
Speaker 2: three years and four months later after Nicholas Barclay's disappearance
Speaker 2: in Lenaris, Spain. The police get a call from a
Speaker 2: tourist couple that they found some teenage boy that is
Speaker 2: scared and alone and is just like fucked up and
Speaker 2: it seems like he needs help. The police come and
Speaker 2: they try to interact with this teenage boy and he's
Speaker 2: not speaking. He's not talking, so they take the kid in. Now,
Speaker 2: this teen boy ends up being a twenty three year
Speaker 2: old man named Frederick, and it is not a kid
Speaker 2: at all, and he gives advice on how to be
Speaker 2: an impostor, and he's like, you just have to fully
Speaker 2: fucking believe it and make everyone else believe it, which
Speaker 2: seems like obvious advice, but basically like, you have to
Speaker 2: act like a fourteen year old damaged kid to be
Speaker 2: able to get away with it, and that's what he did.
Speaker 2: And then further down in the documentary, I'll share it now,
Speaker 2: you find out there was no tourist couple. He called
Speaker 2: the police pretending to be this couple calling and saying
Speaker 2: they found a teen So already he's setting the cops
Speaker 2: up to believe there's a teen boy when it's clearly
Speaker 2: a twenty three year old man. So it's pretty fucking shocking.
Speaker 2: And he has a long history of impersonating people. His
Speaker 2: mother was a single mother who kind of didn't really
Speaker 2: like him that much, and his dad was from Algeria
Speaker 2: and bounced, but his grandfather was super racist and was like,
Speaker 2: you need to abort this kid. So he just like
Speaker 2: grew up in not a very loving home and so
Speaker 2: from a young age pretended to be orphans and different
Speaker 2: kids to get love from other people. So he would
Speaker 2: constantly pretend to be a kid to get into shelters
Speaker 2: and juvenile centers and just take identities of children to
Speaker 2: feel like he belonged. So that's kind of the background
Speaker 2: of this guy. Wow. Yeah, And he says, like with
Speaker 2: the cops, you never tell them what happened. You don't
Speaker 2: say anything to make them believe that something awful happen.
Speaker 2: And I'd like to say I use this tactic once
Speaker 2: because when I was in college, I started stand up
Speaker 2: comedy and was like, I don't need college anymore, but
Speaker 2: I had to finish, and so I was like really
Speaker 2: bad at attending class. But my mom always told me
Speaker 2: never lie about health or like personal trauma. That's like
Speaker 2: bad energy in the world. So I had to get
Speaker 2: a pass on all of my absences. So I just
Speaker 2: basically made it seem like something horrific happened to me,
Speaker 2: but I didn't share what it was, and every teacher okay.
Speaker 1: To except for one.
Speaker 2: Should I. I don't know if this is if you
Speaker 2: guys think I'm a bad person now, But I had to.
Speaker 1: Pass college.
Speaker 2: And I didn't actually lie. I was just like, oh,
Speaker 2: things are hard, okay, So he's playing lots of games.
Speaker 2: He knows if he doesn't talk, they'll eventually have to
Speaker 2: put him in a shelter. And then after a while
Speaker 2: of him not talking and them not being able to
Speaker 2: identify him, they get fun. They get annoyed and they're like, listen, kid,
Speaker 2: if you don't tell us who you are, we're going
Speaker 2: to fingerprint you and we're going to find out. So
Speaker 2: then he goes. He understands like, oh, if they fingerprint me,
Speaker 2: I will get caught.
Speaker 1: I will go to jail. What am I going to do?
Speaker 2: So he tells them that he's an American that ran
Speaker 2: away and he's willing to contact his family back in America,
Speaker 2: but since the time zone difference, they need to let
Speaker 2: him into the office at night and he will call
Speaker 2: his family alone, and he wants to be left alone.
Speaker 1: And they agree to this. This whole story is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: This is the Spanish police.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So they let him into the office at night,
Speaker 2: alone in the office, and he ends up calling a
Speaker 2: New York City police department saying.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm a cop in Spain.
Speaker 2: We found a kid here that's American, and starts describing
Speaker 2: himself like can you help me find him, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: we can't, but we will connect you to the Center
Speaker 2: for Missing and Exploited Children. So he pretends to be
Speaker 2: a police officer to get information from the center and
Speaker 2: they're like, it could be this kid. So then he
Speaker 2: goes send it over and then we can check if this.
Speaker 1: Is the kid or not.
Speaker 2: So they send him a photo of Nicholas Barclay and
Speaker 2: he goes, yep, we got him, thank you.
Speaker 1: So now he's gonna be Nicholas Barclay.
Speaker 2: He's a very quick thinker, pretty impressive, and so he
Speaker 2: finally admits like, I'm this kid. I was taken into
Speaker 2: a sex slavery ring and I'm kind of scared to
Speaker 2: call back home, but this is my sister, and let's
Speaker 2: see what happens. So Special Agent Nancy B. Fisher, who
Speaker 2: I'm kind of obsessed with, she's in the FBI in
Speaker 2: San Antonio and she works there from nineteen seventy eight
Speaker 2: to two thousand and four.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's impressive, like twenty six years.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, your math skills are even more impressive. I
Speaker 2: can't believe you did that. But yeah, so she was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I have to interview him asap. As soon as he
Speaker 2: gets back from America, she says, it's super rare to
Speaker 2: find a kid that's me for years. Usually they're never
Speaker 2: found or they're found dead, so and to be found
Speaker 2: in a different country like that rarely happens, and so
Speaker 2: they needed to see what happened to this child. Then
Speaker 2: he gets a colored photo of the boy, and this
Speaker 2: kid is blonde, blue eyes. He's brunette, brown eyes, and
Speaker 2: he's like, fuck, fuck funk, what am I gonna do?
Speaker 2: So he ran away and wanted to go hitchhike, and
Speaker 2: then the people that picked him up from hitchhiking were
Speaker 2: American authorities that were there to help with the case.
Speaker 2: So he ends up getting picked up by an agent that.
Speaker 1: Was like, are you Nicholas.
Speaker 2: We've been looking for you. So his plan goes awry.
Speaker 2: But the saving grace with this case is Nicholas had
Speaker 2: a gap in his teeth, and so does this guy.
Speaker 2: So the gap is like so instrumental. He ends up
Speaker 2: dyeing his hair blonde. And Nicholas, who is thirteen, had tattoos,
Speaker 2: so he had a girl in the shelter tattoo him,
Speaker 2: so they had similar tattoos. The sister meets him and
Speaker 2: it is like, you look like uncle Pat, I love you.
Speaker 2: And then he's like covered up. He looks like the
Speaker 2: invisible man. I mean he's wearing glasses, hoods, scarves, like
Speaker 2: so covered up. But the sister is so happy to
Speaker 2: see him and starts showing him tons of photos.
Speaker 1: Like do you remember this? Do you remember this? This
Speaker 1: is your mother? Remember remember remember? Yeah, So showing him.
Speaker 2: All these photos, and you know, the sister says, he
Speaker 2: was really quiet, he was really different. He held back,
Speaker 2: he was whispering. But you know, he was tortured for
Speaker 2: four years. What do you expect. You don't expect to
Speaker 2: see the same person. So the judge and the police
Speaker 2: and the Spain people don't believe this, but the Americans
Speaker 2: and the sister are like, no, we do. So the
Speaker 2: Spain people test him and show him photos from his life.
Speaker 2: And because the sister Carrie showed the photos, he knew.
Speaker 2: So he got four out of the five photos correct
Speaker 2: and named everybody. And so by that point they're like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is obviously Nicholas Barclay. So they declared him a citizen,
Speaker 2: gave him a passport and flew hi him on over
Speaker 2: And the thing is in the hotel overnight. He thought, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have a passport. I can do whatever I want. Now,
Speaker 2: I can run away and live my life. But then
Speaker 2: this yearning for love and family, and he was like,
Speaker 2: this is obviously a loving family that I can be with.
Speaker 2: Like they flew all the way over here to come
Speaker 2: get me, and this is a small, all town vibe,
Speaker 2: like she has never been out of the side of
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 1: She this was her first time flying like this.
Speaker 2: Okay. So he shows up to San Antonio. The family
Speaker 2: meets him. They're all like, Okay, he's quiet and weird,
Speaker 2: but we don't know what's happened to him. We're just
Speaker 2: happy to have him back. And then he is very
Speaker 2: disappointed because he's in San Antonio, Texas. So he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to America, and he of course expected city
Speaker 2: life and metropolitan people and everything, and then he's just
Speaker 2: in Texas.
Speaker 1: And is like, what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2: So he arrives at the house and one of the
Speaker 2: fears he has is that the real Nicholas will come back,
Speaker 2: and that's obviously gonna fuck them over. They wanted him
Speaker 2: to have a normal routine, so they watched movies lunch dinner,
Speaker 2: and they really like helped him out. The only thing
Speaker 2: that's weird is Jason, the brother didn't really look at him,
Speaker 2: came to visit and just said good luck and then left. Uh.
Speaker 2: And so that's his only interaction with his brother, Jason,
Speaker 2: who is the person that took the phone call from
Speaker 2: Nicholas the last moments that he was left alive. So
Speaker 2: a little shady. So November fourth, nineteen ninety seven, the
Speaker 2: FBI lady meets him to do the first interview and
Speaker 2: get accounts of everything, and she immediately is like, this
Speaker 2: man has a shadow of a beard.
Speaker 1: This is what is going on. He is not a
Speaker 1: young teen.
Speaker 2: He was very nervous and uncomfortable. And then at this
Speaker 2: point he's supposed to be sixteen, Yeah, okay, well four
Speaker 2: yr yeah, seventeen sixteen, seventeen seventeen, yeah, but he's really
Speaker 2: twenty three. And then the story he claims, I hope
Speaker 2: no one is living through this kind of horrendous stuff
Speaker 2: like but he says it's a military sex ring, that
Speaker 2: the military took him, that the military put him in
Speaker 2: a van and a plane. He was chloroformed all the time.
Speaker 2: He was subjected to high ranking military sexual abuse, raped, molested,
Speaker 2: broke his hands, they burnt him, he had to eat insects.
Speaker 2: His foot was broken, He was experimented on. They put
Speaker 2: needles in his eyes and that's why his eye color changed,
Speaker 2: because they needed to change his eye color so he
Speaker 2: wouldn't be identified. They used torture techniques on him with headphones, screaming, yelling.
Speaker 2: If he spoke English, he was beaten, which is why
Speaker 2: he had this accent because everyone's like, why is he
Speaker 2: speaking in a French accent?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: And so he came up with this idea that if
Speaker 2: he spoke English they would beat him, and that's why
Speaker 2: he speaks so weird now. They put solutions in his
Speaker 2: eye and then at one point he was able to
Speaker 2: run and he just like ran, ran, ran, and ran away,
Speaker 2: and like he should be a writer on SVU.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say that literally sounds like he
Speaker 1: just watched a marathon of SVU on USA and then
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, here's what happened to me.
Speaker 2: So then the FBI was very shaken by this account
Speaker 2: and said normal people don't come up with this stuff.
Speaker 2: And he did have cigarette burns and broken limbs and
Speaker 2: he had all.
Speaker 1: Of these things.
Speaker 2: So he was like, fuck, yeah, this is the last
Speaker 2: border I win. So they told him do not go
Speaker 2: on the news, do not say any of this because
Speaker 2: we need to catch these people that didn't exchange.
Speaker 1: I am intrigued, beyond intrigued, like I know nothing about
Speaker 1: this story. It's so wild.
Speaker 2: So then he ends up going on the news because
Speaker 2: to him, he goes, if I'm on the news saying
Speaker 2: I'm Nicholas, it makes it more and more real. Yes,
Speaker 2: So he totally defies their orders and goes on the news.
Speaker 2: And Charlie Parker, who I want to marry, is a
Speaker 2: private investigator who is like not, I don't believe any
Speaker 2: of this. He makes it a personal mission to investigate
Speaker 2: this case. So then the PI was like, Okay, the
Speaker 2: eyes are different colors, and to me, it's like you
Speaker 2: don't even have to be that talented of a to
Speaker 2: realize that, Like, what the fuck is going on with everybody?
Speaker 2: And then he learned this tip from Scotland Yard that
Speaker 2: they use this ears like for a long time they
Speaker 2: used ears to identify people because ears don't change and
Speaker 2: ears are just as good as a fingerprint. So he
Speaker 2: called the FBI Lady he got a photo and basically
Speaker 2: the ears didn't match, so he knows that this is blowney.
Speaker 2: So the PI calls the FBI woman and but that
Speaker 2: Nancy is like, but why would a family take in
Speaker 2: a stranger? You know, Okay, that's not him, But that's
Speaker 2: really fucking weird that this family would take in someone
Speaker 2: that is clearly not Nicholas. But he goes to high school,
Speaker 2: he starts his new American life, and the PI, God
Speaker 2: bless him. He thinks this is a spy, that he's
Speaker 2: going to bomb everyone, and he is like an intelligence
Speaker 2: person that's here to do terrorism. So they bring him
Speaker 2: to Houston with this new information under the guise of
Speaker 2: a forensic interview to help him with his trauma, but
Speaker 2: really it's more investigative.
Speaker 1: And Bruce D.
Speaker 2: Perry is an MD and PhD at the Texas Children's Hospital.
Speaker 1: He knew immediately something was wrong.
Speaker 2: He goes, this kid did not experience these things because
Speaker 2: he is not going through the normal physiological change that
Speaker 2: happens in a person when they talk about something this traumatic.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why Olivia Benson in the episode
Speaker 2: knew something happened to fake Heather because she was going
Speaker 2: through those physiological changes when describing the trauma, like, you
Speaker 2: can't really fake those, So that's why she knew something
Speaker 2: was up. He also was like, no native speaker would
Speaker 2: ever have an accent.
Speaker 5: Okay, like paiging Hilaria Baldwin, paiging Hilaria Baldwin, Like, he goes,
Speaker 5: even if you, like we're an English speaker, went somewhere else,
Speaker 5: you could always speak English.
Speaker 2: Like, the fact that he didn't know what was up
Speaker 2: is very strange. So a full investigation starts based on
Speaker 2: this information. I mean, if you can believe it, this
Speaker 2: is where it gets. It's even more wild. So the
Speaker 2: FBI contacts the family and she goes, hey, you don't
Speaker 2: even have to show up at the airport. This is
Speaker 2: not Nicholas. This is a fraudulent man. We will take
Speaker 2: care of it. We'll pretend everything's normal, but don't show
Speaker 2: up to the airport. They land, Carrie is at the airport.
Speaker 1: Who's Carrie?
Speaker 2: The sister?
Speaker 1: The sister Sorry, no, it's fine, so the sister.
Speaker 2: So the FBI lady Nancy's like, hey, Carrie, this isn't
Speaker 2: your brother. This is a strange man. You don't have
Speaker 2: to come get him. Don't come to the airport. Carrie,
Speaker 2: the sister, shows up at the airport anyways to pick
Speaker 2: up this man that the FBI has told her is
Speaker 2: not her fucking brother. What is going on? So Nancy
Speaker 2: is like calling the state's attorney office, like I don't
Speaker 2: even know what to do in this situation. So they're like,
Speaker 2: just let her go, we'll figure stuff out. And Carrie
Speaker 2: in the documentary's like, I don't really remember her saying that, Okay,
Speaker 2: the PI could not let it go. The pi's doing
Speaker 2: lots of stuff, lots of work, and he's talking to
Speaker 2: the neighbors, and the neighbors say that that family was
Speaker 2: pretty fucked up. The cops would be called two to
Speaker 2: three times a week. There was fighting, screaming, and there
Speaker 2: was always issues. So the FBI lady is like, great,
Speaker 2: I'll get DNA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I don't understand from the beginning, why
Speaker 1: they didn't just test this kid's DNA to see if
Speaker 1: it's like matches the mom or the dad.
Speaker 2: I don't think their brain was like, this has never
Speaker 2: happened before. Yeah, this is the first case of its
Speaker 2: kind where someone was able to impersonate a child and
Speaker 2: get access and citizenship into this country. Yeah, so like
Speaker 2: this is not you know, it's set a precedent. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they're going to handle these things different, but they
Speaker 2: don't really assume it. So the fbilady goes to the
Speaker 2: house to talk to the mom Beverly, and it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're going to get the DNA. That's not your son.
Speaker 2: She refuses, like she becomes hostile. The FBI lady says
Speaker 2: that she's laid down and was like, absolutely not, I
Speaker 2: refuse and the mom and the doc is like, I
Speaker 2: don't remember that. So like there's a lot of forgetting here,
Speaker 2: a lot of amnesia going on. And they didn't need
Speaker 2: to prove who he was, Like that's what family is saying.
Speaker 2: They're like, we don't need to prove who he is.
Speaker 1: We know who he is. This is Nicholas.
Speaker 2: So it changed from a grieving family to something suspicious,
Speaker 2: because why would you let a stranger to your home
Speaker 2: unless you had something to hide?
Speaker 1: What are they fucking hiding?
Speaker 2: So after Beverly refused the blood sample, suddenly the impostor
Speaker 2: was like, oh, they killed Nicholas and I'm in danger.
Speaker 2: Like now I'm not scared. Nicholas is gonna come back,
Speaker 2: like this is fucking twisted. They know I'm not Nicholas
Speaker 2: and they don't care, and they're pretending that they like me.
Speaker 2: So now he becomes scared because he's like, who are
Speaker 2: these fucking creeps? And then he suddenly is like, oh,
Speaker 2: she showed me all the photos of the family. She
Speaker 2: set me up for all this, like you know, she
Speaker 2: prepped me for pretending to be the brother and decided
Speaker 2: you're going to be my brother. So he's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: they're even bigger liars than me, which is like, hold
Speaker 2: your horses, your psycho. So we get news that, like Jason,
Speaker 2: this older brother is a bum and a drug addict
Speaker 2: and only cared about himself and this is from Nicholas's
Speaker 2: old childhood friend. We get this information and then what's interesting,
Speaker 2: the PI noticed that a couple months after Nicholas's disappearance,
Speaker 2: Jason called the police and said that Nicholas tried to
Speaker 2: break into the house. And the PI said that this
Speaker 2: happens all the time, where if like you killed somebody,
Speaker 2: you'll call the cops to like have fake sightings. So
Speaker 2: it seems like that person is still alive. So anyways,
Speaker 2: Frederick's like they fucking killed someone.
Speaker 1: This is crazy. I don't want to do this.
Speaker 2: The FBI Lady Nancy is like, I need to get
Speaker 2: a search warrant because the mom and sister and cooperating
Speaker 2: and we need DNA and Prince. The PI starts tailing him,
Speaker 2: following him, and in March nineteen ninety eight, Madrid called
Speaker 2: and identified the Prince and yeah, it's a fucking guy
Speaker 2: that's wanted by Interpol and his name is Frederick Baudin.
Speaker 2: Also he agrees to meet the PI for pancakes, so
Speaker 2: he starts talking to him, and Frederick to the PI goes,
Speaker 2: I'm not Nicholas, and you fucking know it, and straight
Speaker 2: up is like you know what's going on here? And
Speaker 2: he had a pattern of false identity. They figure everything else.
Speaker 2: There's like a two minute montage of all his identities.
Speaker 2: At this point he is faked being like around forty people.
Speaker 1: Jeez.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So March fourth, nineteen ninety eight, the story broke.
Speaker 2: He got arrested and he's the only person in US history,
Speaker 2: like I said to him, personate a child like that.
Speaker 2: And then the sister is like, I'm sad, and then
Speaker 2: it's like where's Nicholas And then it's also like, how
Speaker 2: can I be so stupid that I thought this was Nicholas?
Speaker 2: So the impostor calls the San Antonio police and says
Speaker 2: they killed him, like you need to open this investigation,
Speaker 2: and everyone's like yeah, but he's great, Like why are
Speaker 2: we believing him? So then it's kind of fucked up,
Speaker 2: and basically the investigation goes nowhere. There's no evidence about Nicholas.
Speaker 2: There's no evidence that the mom knew or the mom helped,
Speaker 2: or that Jason did it. I think that Jason killed
Speaker 2: his brother. I do, But Jason ended up overdosing, leaving
Speaker 2: a drug rehabilitation center and overdosing. So he's dead and
Speaker 2: the family thinks that they're making him the scapegoat because
Speaker 2: he can't defend himself. But it's like he called you,
Speaker 2: you knew where he was. He never arrived again. You know,
Speaker 2: this is what they think. The movie wants you to think,
Speaker 2: is that Jason did it. So it's kind of tough. Okay,
Speaker 2: So he's in jail. He gets six years, and this
Speaker 2: is my favorite, most insane thing. He continued to scam
Speaker 2: people on a phone in his cell. What why is happening?
Speaker 1: He's own bone in their cell.
Speaker 2: There's videos of him in his cell with his own
Speaker 2: payphone calling people and ruining people's lives and calling parents
Speaker 2: of missing children, lying saying that they found him, and
Speaker 2: no one is stopping him. Like, you have to watch
Speaker 2: the end of this documentary. He is legit in a
Speaker 2: prison cell, terrorizing parents and no one is stopping him.
Speaker 2: I'm like, how does this happen? But what pisses me
Speaker 2: off the most is a woman saw him on tea
Speaker 2: and was like, I'm going to marry that man, and
Speaker 2: he got married and had five children. I'm just like,
Speaker 2: why can I not find love in my life and
Speaker 2: this lunatic? Yeah? This woman Isabelle, was like I felt
Speaker 2: bad for his story and I just wanted to be
Speaker 2: with him. And so he's the father of five children.
Speaker 1: Jesus.
Speaker 2: So after he got out of jail, he got deported
Speaker 2: and immediately started faking being other people.
Speaker 1: He was a missing fourteen year old boy. But at
Speaker 1: this point in two thousand and three, isn't he like
Speaker 1: thirty three years old?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Point or like receding hairline. The other stuff I watched
Speaker 2: on it, they're very shady. They're like, this fucker is
Speaker 2: balding and he's pretending to be children. But yeah, and
Speaker 2: then I read that he had a YouTube channel, and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, everything, this is the best.
Speaker 1: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: And there's no vlogs, there's no content, so I was
Speaker 2: very upset. That's pretty much it. And then I don't know.
Speaker 1: If he's divorced or not.
Speaker 2: He's obviously a liar and that's the craziest thing I've
Speaker 2: ever heard. Oh and then wait, so then he pretended
Speaker 2: to be one other person, Reuben Sanchez Espinoza, at a
Speaker 2: youth shelter and lived there and then ended up going
Speaker 2: to college as this kid. And then a representative of
Speaker 2: the college saw him on the news and was like,
Speaker 2: holy shit. So like he got caught again pretending to
Speaker 2: be someone in college and served a six month long
Speaker 2: conditional term.
Speaker 1: That's really it's just the psychology of that, of like
Speaker 1: never being able to be yourself and having to always
Speaker 1: be someone else's really wild. But of course in this
Speaker 1: Asview episode, she was not quite so diabolical. She was
Speaker 1: just trying to, you know, fit in after she had
Speaker 1: a horrible trauma, which is based off of the one
Speaker 1: of the most horrible cases I've ever heard. It's literally
Speaker 1: stuck with me for years. It's complete nightmare.
Speaker 2: Fuel No, and I need to say, Kara mentions this constantly.
Speaker 2: You mentioned this case all the time.
Speaker 1: It's just so disgusting and horrible that like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to take you through it really quickly, and it's just really,
Speaker 1: really awful. It's the Joseph and Elizabeth Fritzel case. Joseph
Speaker 1: Fritz as an Austrian man who kept his own daughter
Speaker 1: imprisoned in his basement for twenty four years, repeatedly raping
Speaker 1: her and fathering seven children with her. So how did
Speaker 1: he get away with this? How did he do this?
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven, when Elizabeth was eleven, he started
Speaker 1: sexually abusing her. The thing is he had five daughters
Speaker 1: and two sons with his wife, and I tried to
Speaker 1: find out whether he had assaulted any of his other children,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't find anything. And apparently he just had
Speaker 1: a real thing for Elizabeth because she was very strong
Speaker 1: willed and spirited. And like they say that people like sociopaths,
Speaker 1: psychopaths have more fun breaking a strong willed person's spirit.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty one, nineteen eighty two, he starts
Speaker 1: to turn a hidden portion of his basement into a
Speaker 1: prison cell. In nineteen eighty three, when Elizabeth is seventeen,
Speaker 1: she runs away from home, but much like I mentioned
Speaker 1: with this, Jeffrey Dahmer Caith police find her within three
Speaker 1: weeks and return her to her parents, and sadly, this
Speaker 1: is helpful later to Joseph in painting her as this
Speaker 1: troubled teen who had run away before, even though she's
Speaker 1: running away from her father who has been repeatedly abusing
Speaker 1: her since she was eleven. So one day in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, when she's eighteen, he lures her into the
Speaker 1: basement to help him put up a door to the basement,
Speaker 1: and once she helps him put up this door, he
Speaker 1: chloroforms her locks her in there, which is where the
Speaker 1: episode I think gets a page out of this chloroform situation,
Speaker 1: and he convinces his wife and everyone else in their
Speaker 1: lives that she has run off and joined a cult,
Speaker 1: and he says, I had to create a place where
Speaker 1: I could keep Elizabeth by force if necessary, away from
Speaker 1: the outside world. She did not adhere to rules anymore.
Speaker 1: She would spend whole nights in dingybars, drinking alcohol and smoking.
Speaker 1: I only tried to pull her out of that misery,
Speaker 1: so he thinks he's doing a good thing here. And
Speaker 1: keep in mind this man grew up in the time
Speaker 1: of the Nazis. And there also was another similar kidnapping
Speaker 1: like this in Austria, And there's an interesting New York
Speaker 1: Times article about how sort of Nazi culture influenced both
Speaker 1: of these kidnappings. But after he kidnaps Elizabeth into the basement,
Speaker 1: she's there for four years. She sees no other human
Speaker 1: being except for her a rapist father. Sometimes he would
Speaker 1: leave her without food or electricity to punish her, just
Speaker 1: like in the show up to ten Days in Darkness.
Speaker 1: Once he left her, her mother, Rose Marie, which is
Speaker 1: too close for comfort to my mother's name, allegedly had
Speaker 1: no idea like Apparently the basement was Joseph's area where
Speaker 1: he worked on projects. He was an engineer, like he
Speaker 1: did work. No one ever went down there or questioned
Speaker 1: why he would go down there. This man was so
Speaker 1: ballsy that he even rented rooms out in his home.
Speaker 1: There was one guy that rented a room in this
Speaker 1: house for twelve years who said he heard noises coming
Speaker 1: from the basement, But was always told, oh, it's old
Speaker 1: pipes and stuff, so this is like horrific, horrific. So
Speaker 1: then in nineteen eighty eight, she gives birth to her
Speaker 1: first child, Kirsten. Kirsten ends up in the basement until
Speaker 1: she is nineteen. In nineteen ninety she gives worth to Stefan.
Speaker 1: Stefan is in the basement until he's seventeen. And now
Speaker 1: this kid has trouble walking because he ends up at
Speaker 1: full height at seventeen. He's five to eight and the
Speaker 1: room is only five foot six, so he has to
Speaker 1: walk hunched over all the time. And apparently all of
Speaker 1: them had to spend a lot of time lying down
Speaker 1: because the room is so small and like physically short.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, she gives birth to Lisa, but
Speaker 1: after five months, Joseph takes Lisa and leaves her upstairs
Speaker 1: outside of the home in a cardboard box, staging it
Speaker 1: to seem like Elizabeth left the baby there because her
Speaker 1: cult wouldn't allow babies. Okay, He does the same thing
Speaker 1: to a baby named Monica, born in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: and then in nineteen ninety six, Elizabeth gives birth to
Speaker 1: twin boys. One dies, Michael, dies and after three days
Speaker 1: and Fritzel cremates the body, and the surviving twin, Alexander,
Speaker 1: is also taken upstairs at fifteen months old and like
Speaker 1: discovered and they call these children foundlings, like their children
Speaker 1: that have been abandoned. And so the notes are that
Speaker 1: the notes are from Elizabeth and are like, please take
Speaker 1: care of my baby, and they're in her handwriting because
Speaker 1: he's forced her to write them. Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So basically he's also playing god. He's deciding which of
Speaker 1: these children gets to come upstairs and live a quote
Speaker 1: unquote normal life with him and his wife, and who
Speaker 1: has to stay down below. So he's also raping his
Speaker 1: dogs in front of his grandchild, in front of his children,
Speaker 1: in front of his children and grandchildren. Yes, so then
Speaker 1: if the final child is born in two thousand and two, Felix,
Speaker 1: but he has to stay in the basement because at
Speaker 1: this point Rosemarie cannot handle any more children. Keep in mind,
Speaker 1: this woman has already raised seven of her own children.
Speaker 1: Now she's taking in these three quote unquote founding children
Speaker 1: that are her grandchildren. But social services is involved in this.
Speaker 1: Social services is there like approving them to have these
Speaker 1: children like they like they officially adopt these children. It's insane.
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and eight is when this thing
Speaker 1: fucking blows up. Finally, thank god, Joseph allows the extremely
Speaker 1: ill Kirsten, who is nineteen, to be taken to a
Speaker 1: local hospital. It's later believed she was suffering from kidney failure.
Speaker 1: Her appearance and everything that's going on with her like
Speaker 1: a severe SEVERER vitamin D deficiency. I would imagine that
Speaker 1: makes the hospital kind of suspicious that they're like, we
Speaker 1: really need to talk to her mother, we need to
Speaker 1: know more about what's going on with her, and like
Speaker 1: did she a band? Because he told everyone that he
Speaker 1: just found Kirk Kirsten leaning up against his house and
Speaker 1: that she was abandoned by the mother. So eventually, I
Speaker 1: guess he probably realizes that this whole house of cards
Speaker 1: is about to come falling down on him, because he
Speaker 1: eventually brings Elizabeth to the hospital as well, and the
Speaker 1: doctors because they want more information. Elizabeth's teeth are like
Speaker 1: wroughten out, like she hasn't been outside in twenty four years,
Speaker 1: like he has never let her out, so it's obviously
Speaker 1: very alarming. He ended up releasing Elizabeth as well as
Speaker 1: Stefan and Felix too when this whole hospital thing went down. So,
Speaker 1: after Elizabeth has promised that she never has to see
Speaker 1: her father ever again, she gives a two hour video
Speaker 1: account of what has happened, and she starts it by saying,
Speaker 1: no one will ever believe me, which is wild, and
Speaker 1: luckily the world did believe her, because this man is
Speaker 1: a full monster. So two thousand and nine, after a
Speaker 1: four day trial, right before his seventy fourth birthday, Fritzel
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to the charges of murder by negligence of
Speaker 1: his son Michael, the one the twin who did not survive,
Speaker 1: as well as decades of enslavement incestr I mean he
Speaker 1: raped her three thousand times or more. They say, like
Speaker 1: it's fucking horrific, false imprisonment, coercion, everything, And he is
Speaker 1: sentenced to life imprisonment in a psychiatric institution. But it's
Speaker 1: like a psychiatric jail in Austria. It's supposed to be
Speaker 1: pretty tough. Like I don't think it's I don't think
Speaker 1: he's in a white, padded room, but I think that
Speaker 1: it's it's probably somewhere in between what we think of
Speaker 1: as like a psychiatric facility and a prison here. And
Speaker 1: what's insane insane is that Fritzl was previously imprisoned for
Speaker 1: breaking into a woman's house and raping her at knife point.
Speaker 1: So he was known for that, he had a record,
Speaker 1: and he was known for indecent exposure, and he served
Speaker 1: a twelve months of an eighteen month prison sentence. Again,
Speaker 1: I mean, what is happening with these prison sentences? That
Speaker 1: is not enough for raping someone a knife point. But
Speaker 1: in accordance to us with Austrian law, his criminal record
Speaker 1: was expunged after fifteen years. So as a result, twenty
Speaker 1: five years later when he applied to adopt all these children,
Speaker 1: the social service authorities did not know about his criminal history.
Speaker 1: Really think that you should ever have anything expunge that's
Speaker 1: a sexual assault, but okay. He had apparently a very
Speaker 1: fucked up relationship with his mother, who beat him and
Speaker 1: called him satan. And eventually later in life, his mother
Speaker 1: moved in with him and his wife into the basement
Speaker 1: and he locked her in the attic and bricked up
Speaker 1: her window, telling neighbors she had died, and kept her
Speaker 1: locked up until her death in nineteen eighty. And it's
Speaker 1: unknown how long he had his mother locked up, but
Speaker 1: some newspapers have speculated it's twenty years.
Speaker 2: And what's missus Fritzl's Like she didn't know the mom
Speaker 2: was in the attic. She never asked about these babies.
Speaker 2: Is she being abused by what the fuck?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure in some way he had some
Speaker 1: kind of like hold over her, But the basement was
Speaker 1: just his area, and like she never went down there,
Speaker 1: and she thought her daughter ran away to a cult.
Speaker 1: I mean, she says, she's not quoted. They nobody ever
Speaker 1: talks to her in any of the interviews, Like, no
Speaker 1: one ever has gotten to talk to her, and she
Speaker 1: Elizabeth had a really hard time with her. They were
Speaker 1: staying in a facility together, all getting therapy, and then
Speaker 1: I think she told the mother to leave because I
Speaker 1: I think she was having a really hard time like
Speaker 1: swallowing her version of the story. But they have since,
Speaker 1: I think formed a relationship and the children do see
Speaker 1: their grandmother. And this guy, is he dead already or what? No,
Speaker 1: he's still in jail.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: He at first tried to argue that this was consensual
Speaker 1: sex with his daughter and that he wasn't a monster,
Speaker 1: and saying, oh but he would bring the children's stuffed animals,
Speaker 1: and once he even brought a Christmas tree down to
Speaker 1: the basement. And it's just like really gross. And in
Speaker 1: our sources there are photos of the downstairs, like it's
Speaker 1: a little bit more like how you were saying before, Lisa,
Speaker 1: like why would you not kind of make it nice.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's nice in any way. But there
Speaker 1: is a toilet, there is a tub like it wasn't
Speaker 1: a mattress on a floor, and like a bucket. So
Speaker 1: I guess they just kind of got used to it.
Speaker 1: They had a television, they had a radio, like they
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess that's how they survived. Nobody
Speaker 1: understands how Elizabeth didn't go insane, Like nobody can understand
Speaker 1: how that happened. I had one child in a hospital.
Speaker 1: I really cannot imagine having seven down a fucking basement.
Speaker 1: It's just really really horrific. But I have to mention,
Speaker 1: like the the sliver sliver of a silver lining kind
Speaker 1: of happy ending. Not happy ending. But Elizabeth has had
Speaker 1: extensive therapy, as have all her children. She lives with
Speaker 1: all of her children. They got new identities, They moved
Speaker 1: to a tiny village in northern Austria. And this is
Speaker 1: what I think is so nice. The entire village knows
Speaker 1: who they are and protects them. Like if reporters come,
Speaker 1: they're like, get out of here. No one wants to
Speaker 1: talk to you. Like they have like full security around
Speaker 1: their house with like CCTV and everything. But also if
Speaker 1: anybody just kind of wanders into the town and finds
Speaker 1: out where they are, this town has like got it
Speaker 1: on lock. And Elizabeth has fallen in love with a
Speaker 1: security guard who was originally hired to protect her. He's
Speaker 1: twenty three years younger than her and get it girl,
Speaker 1: And she got her license and loves to go shopping.
Speaker 1: And Joseph had a bunch of his teeth knocked out
Speaker 1: while he was in a prison brawl because a bunch
Speaker 1: of the inmates made a fake dating for him on
Speaker 1: a German dating app dating profile. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was pretty funny, and I'm happy that he's in jail
Speaker 1: and toothless. And that is the story of Elizabeth and
Speaker 1: Joseph Fritzel. It's horrific.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like obviously the actions are all so fucked,
Speaker 2: but also what's so daunting is the.
Speaker 1: Years a lot. Yeah, it's just it's so long. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've there have been stories of like this other girl
Speaker 1: in Austria was kidnapped. I believe she was in a
Speaker 1: in a basement situation for like six or eight years,
Speaker 1: and like Elizabeth Smart was kept for such and such
Speaker 1: a moun time of twenty four years and having seven children,
Speaker 1: and then some of these children were raised with no sunlight,
Speaker 1: like they said. Little Felix like he luckily was so young.
Speaker 1: I think he was born in O two and got out.
Speaker 1: He was like five or six when they got him out,
Speaker 1: so he doesn't even remember that much of the basement.
Speaker 1: And he just was like pressing his nose against the glass,
Speaker 1: like looking at the stars when they got him out,
Speaker 1: because he had just never seen anything like it. And
Speaker 1: what was the Nazi connection, Well, they were just seeing
Speaker 1: like these men that grew up in a Nazi time
Speaker 1: like felt the sort ethnic cleansing or like what he
Speaker 1: felt like, Oh, my daughter is unhelpable. She's a whore,
Speaker 1: and like she carouses with alcohol like I need to.
Speaker 1: It's my job to keep her locked up and stop
Speaker 1: her from being part of the regular world, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? It's like to me, it feels
Speaker 1: like it's just like an ideological similarity. It's not like
Speaker 1: Nazi said you should do this, but you know, just
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm glad that she has therapy, and I'm
Speaker 2: assuming like the government gives her money, and yeah, I
Speaker 2: have a feeling that like because she's been provided security
Speaker 2: and the seat, and like I have a feeling that
Speaker 2: the government just like literally gives her a stipend and
Speaker 2: like they're all covered and that no one heard her
Speaker 2: give birth.
Speaker 1: It's really wild. I mean he had like you can
Speaker 1: see diagrams of like it was like his workshop, and
Speaker 1: then it was like behind the workshop, like where the
Speaker 1: room was created. And eventually she begged to have the
Speaker 1: place expanded. She's like, I have four people down here, like,
Speaker 1: can we have more space? And he let them expand it,
Speaker 1: but they had to dig in the dirt with their
Speaker 1: own hands. Like he's like, honestly, truly, I don't think
Speaker 1: I've heard of a fucking worst criminal. He's so awful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well thanks for that, You're welcome. I'm just happy that
Speaker 1: they're all like in this village living together and they
Speaker 1: get to go outside and kind of hopefully live happy
Speaker 1: rest of their lives after what's happened to them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we're going to have a very talented guest as
Speaker 1: soon as we come back. Liza. I'm so excited for
Speaker 1: our guest today. She has run the gamut of crime shows.
Speaker 1: She's been on Castle, We've seen her on Scandal, We've
Speaker 1: seen her on Criminal Minds, and most recently, she was
Speaker 1: on ABC's Marvels. In Humans, you guys know her as
Speaker 1: Heather Hollander slash Kristin Muslik. Please stay tuned for our
Speaker 1: interview with Ellen Woglam. Tell us how it came about, Like,
Speaker 1: did you audition for this part? Like we like Lisa
Speaker 1: was saying, like we do so many like comedy auditions,
Speaker 1: the two of us that like we never have to
Speaker 1: like cry on cue or anything like that, So like no,
Speaker 1: they actually it was.
Speaker 3: Well that's going to make me sound way cooler than
Speaker 3: I am. But it was a straight offer.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, I know only offer only.
Speaker 3: I have a feeling that's just the way they operate.
Speaker 3: I don't think that was like personal to me, but
Speaker 3: I had done a lot of I think I had done.
Speaker 4: Maybe they had seen a I think I did like
Speaker 4: a finale of Cold Case or something where there was
Speaker 4: a lot of crying. So it was a straight offer,
Speaker 4: which was surprising, and then yeah, I went to New York.
Speaker 4: And but also it's also kind of nerve wracking, and
Speaker 4: that happens because since you have an auditioned, you don't
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I would prefer straight offer anytime, but but you don't
Speaker 3: know that, like what you're.
Speaker 4: Doing is what they responded to and they like, but
Speaker 4: that I feel like is more for comedy.
Speaker 3: It's harder with that. Comedy is so much it's just
Speaker 3: a different muscle.
Speaker 4: And so with comedy, I feel like if it's a
Speaker 4: straight off, you don't know if like they thought you
Speaker 4: were funny, You're like, well, I know, we haven't. You know,
Speaker 4: I don't know what you're responding to.
Speaker 1: We were looking at your impressive resume and like you
Speaker 1: were really like a crime show girl leading up to SVU,
Speaker 1: like you had done Criminal Lines and CSI and Cold Case.
Speaker 1: So maybe I just saw you and all that stuff
Speaker 1: and we're like that girl can cry.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: And since then you've done some more Dick Wolf too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Chicago Fire and Chicago p D. Yeah, they've been
Speaker 4: they've been good to me.
Speaker 1: How do the sets differ.
Speaker 3: Well, you're in Chicago, right, you want to know that
Speaker 3: was so you can't swear.
Speaker 1: You can swear, you can swear, say whatever you want.
Speaker 4: Well, now, it was so fucking cold that like you'd
Speaker 4: be outside wearing I think we were trying to do
Speaker 4: fall and it was in.
Speaker 3: The middle of winter in Chicago for Chicago.
Speaker 4: Fire and PD and so I'm in a tiny like
Speaker 4: barely jacket and crying and you're just like, this is
Speaker 4: their icicles.
Speaker 3: Like it was just so hard to do. So that
Speaker 3: was hard. Chicago filming outside in that winter was hard.
Speaker 4: New York was We were indoors for most of it,
Speaker 4: and it was just an amazing experience. I remember, you know, Mariska,
Speaker 4: I don't know at that point how many seasons they
Speaker 4: had done.
Speaker 2: It was a lot.
Speaker 4: And she still went into work every day excited about
Speaker 4: the work, committed to the work, like engaged, and you know,
Speaker 4: sometimes you'll go on sets, especially if you're doing a guest.
Speaker 3: Star, you're kind of a visitor, and that was not
Speaker 3: the vibe at all.
Speaker 4: It was super collaborative and so kind to all the
Speaker 4: cast and crew, and it really sets a precedent for
Speaker 4: just the tone on set, and I remember being so young.
Speaker 3: And there's been a couple other experiences.
Speaker 4: One was I did a series we only were on
Speaker 4: for a year but called Outlaw with Jimmy Smith's and
Speaker 4: he was very similar in that he you know, when
Speaker 4: you're number one on the call sheet, you really set
Speaker 4: the tone for how everything goes. And I just remember
Speaker 4: watching both Mariska and Jimmy and going, That's how I'd
Speaker 4: want to be if ever I was number one, Like,
Speaker 4: That's how I'd want to conduct myself. Like, you know,
Speaker 4: it was a mix a great She's also really funny,
Speaker 4: so a great mix of you know, people joking and
Speaker 4: laughing and a lot of love, but also extremely professional
Speaker 4: when it needs to be professional.
Speaker 3: So it was really that episode with all.
Speaker 4: The I mean, I love all the jobs I've done
Speaker 4: and grateful for all of them, but that's the one
Speaker 4: when people ask what was your favorite job that you've done?
Speaker 3: Is definitely that SVU Also because it was there was
Speaker 3: meat there, so it was fun to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your character was multi multi layered for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you had to scream at Marishka like.
Speaker 3: What was that like?
Speaker 1: You had to just like fully be like get out
Speaker 1: of here. I don't want to talk to you.
Speaker 3: And I know that's I hate whatever I have to.
Speaker 4: I think I revisited that just because this and I
Speaker 4: hadn't seen any of the episode in so long, and
Speaker 4: I was, you know, watching your face.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh god, that's my crease. When I do that,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, it's great.
Speaker 4: She was. So we became friendly afterwards, and like I
Speaker 4: would go to dinner at her house, you know when
Speaker 4: if I was in town.
Speaker 3: She really took me under her wing. So it was great.
Speaker 1: That's a dream to be a's house for Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: When the episode came out, did you watch it with
Speaker 2: friends and family? Was it a party or is it not?
Speaker 2: Because the subject matter is so fucked up?
Speaker 1: Like, oh no, what happens?
Speaker 4: I think by that point that subject matter it got
Speaker 4: to point I had done so many of those, like.
Speaker 3: Rape my tones.
Speaker 4: It's a laughing matter, but I just had and then
Speaker 4: I think the last one I did was Scandal.
Speaker 3: Afterwards, I was like, Okay, this is getting a little like,
Speaker 3: let's put it today. But my friends watched it.
Speaker 4: In that opening scene where the mom Tess Harper, who
Speaker 4: actually played she played my mom on a series I
Speaker 4: did called Crash as well.
Speaker 3: So when she opened the door and I'm like, you
Speaker 3: don't remember me?
Speaker 1: Do you?
Speaker 3: My friend?
Speaker 4: So that was really funny anytime then, like when they
Speaker 4: would come over and I'd open the door, they'd be like,
Speaker 4: you don't remember me?
Speaker 2: Well that scene I've always been curious when you lift
Speaker 2: your hand like shocked, like you don't remember me, and
Speaker 2: the tattoo obviously the giveaway was that naturally did.
Speaker 1: You did you know? Did the director tell you to
Speaker 1: do that?
Speaker 2: Was? It was like, could you win?
Speaker 4: Could you put your hand like right here where the cameras,
Speaker 4: we can get that tattoo and make it like you
Speaker 4: normally put your hand with.
Speaker 3: A tattoo across your face and say you don't remember me?
Speaker 4: Do you?
Speaker 1: You don't remember me? You're like, I have a hair
Speaker 1: muddling green? No, it seems natural and contest. Sure, So wait,
Speaker 1: were you a brunette back then?
Speaker 3: No, that's a wig?
Speaker 2: Okay we thought we knew it, Yeah, we knew yeah, And.
Speaker 4: They they put my hair in braids underneath that wig
Speaker 4: so tight that you just be on so much at
Speaker 4: of them all.
Speaker 1: Day because the the headaches because like you guys at
Speaker 1: home cannot see her. But she has this beautiful mane
Speaker 1: of blonde tresses that are very like wavy and curly,
Speaker 1: and that is not what we saw on that episode. No,
Speaker 1: it was definitely like a brown with like some jagged bangs,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, I wonder if that was
Speaker 1: her real hair. Good to know?
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've worked a bunch in New York and LA
Speaker 1: and as you said, Chicago, like do you have a preference?
Speaker 1: Do you like La better just because you live here?
Speaker 3: And now I love shooting on location because I love hotels.
Speaker 1: In my love room service, Yeah, girl, after ours to order?
Speaker 3: Oh well, I always ordered two lattes in the morning
Speaker 3: just because I once enough and then I don't know
Speaker 3: my order, probably a burger.
Speaker 4: I remember when I was in Chicago doing Chicago PD
Speaker 4: and Fire, they put me up at the I think
Speaker 4: it was the Ritz, And so that's paid for, but
Speaker 4: room services and paid for like your room is paid for,
Speaker 4: but any incidental you have to cover. And so every
Speaker 4: morning they really get you too, because they were like,
Speaker 4: would you like coffee, miss Walk And I was like,
Speaker 4: of course.
Speaker 3: Down in the lobby.
Speaker 4: And then when I went to go check out, they
Speaker 4: gave me, well, I thought it was a complimentary coffee,
Speaker 4: and they gave me the bell and I remember like.
Speaker 3: Getting to and I was like, oh, I actually really
Speaker 3: can't afford to stay here.
Speaker 2: How much was it a thousand dollars? Oh my god?
Speaker 4: Because you also have to eat rooms of over stuck
Speaker 4: because you'll get home late and restaurants are right open.
Speaker 3: So I got room service and they brought this soup
Speaker 3: and it was the most ridiculous if I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: It was in like a coffee creamer that then the
Speaker 3: guy like poured into a bowl, and it was so
Speaker 3: small and so expensive, and I remember just looking.
Speaker 4: At the guy and I was like really, and he
Speaker 4: was like, I mean he need too, because it was
Speaker 4: just it was comically small.
Speaker 2: A thousand dollars is would that's it?
Speaker 1: That's definitely a tear wrenching bill to get. I would cry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: I was like, I you know, so that's the things
Speaker 3: you say, these really nice hotels.
Speaker 1: But then you know, I guess then you just cross
Speaker 1: your finger that they play that episode a bunch of
Speaker 1: times and that your residuals will pay for the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so everyone go stream that episode like a lot.
Speaker 1: Because wait, so you have already you've said you've played
Speaker 1: like this victim a million times. But like, if you
Speaker 1: were to get a call back to SVU, like, what
Speaker 1: would you want them to be calling you into play
Speaker 1: like lawyer, judge, like judge, a mom, like somebody out
Speaker 1: like a different kind of criminal.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a good question. Let's pitch it too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we're hoping, we're hoping you're listening.
Speaker 3: Maybe i'd be the bad guy. Oh I've never.
Speaker 1: Played the bad guy because you just don't look like
Speaker 1: a bad guy. You look like such a nice person.
Speaker 1: But that's always the funnest little twist, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Well, not to insult you, but you could be like
Speaker 2: the woman that what's her name for Epstein's woman Gallain. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't, but you can be the decoy or the
Speaker 2: person that does the because you're because you're not suspicious
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 3: That's a good idea.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you would be offended. You look
Speaker 2: like you would trap when he's getting maxwell energy from you.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're really good at grooming young girl. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a good one. Something like that.
Speaker 2: Post mortem time, and I do want to give us props.
Speaker 2: I think we've learned that we're incredible at realizing if
Speaker 2: someone's wearing a wig or not. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's our drag race viewing or what, but we're
Speaker 2: fucking on it.
Speaker 1: I have to say, Lisa, I think that's probably more you.
Speaker 1: I did think hers was a wig. But I've recently
Speaker 1: been very much awoken to the fact that I believe
Speaker 1: that so many actresses it's their real hair, such as
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman in the Undoing, And many of my gay
Speaker 1: male friends are like, you're insane. You've never seen Nicole
Speaker 1: Kidman's real hair, And I'm like, you're right. I don't
Speaker 1: know why why I think she has this beautiful mane
Speaker 1: of red hair.
Speaker 2: Anyway, someone tweeted, and I agree, They're like, can Nicole
Speaker 2: Kidman do one movie in her real accent?
Speaker 1: Like why can't we get one Australian part from her?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I just don't understand that.
Speaker 1: She's not that great at an American so I think
Speaker 1: we should just let her live. But anyway, this obviously
Speaker 1: these crimes were horrific, this episode is horrific. I would
Speaker 1: say what I've learned is that if your long last
Speaker 1: sister comes home and tells you that she's been a
Speaker 1: sex slave for six years. Why don't you not worry
Speaker 1: about how many showers she's taking. Why don't you just
Speaker 1: let her take as many showers as she wants and
Speaker 1: don't worry about the water bill?
Speaker 2: Niki. Also, I learned never let your spouse have a
Speaker 2: room or a dungeon or a place that you do
Speaker 2: not inspect constantly.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: This is my tool shop. I'll be the judge of what.
Speaker 1: This is my primary area. You know what I was
Speaker 1: wondering too, actually thinking back on it, How did that
Speaker 1: woman not realize how much food was going missing? Like
Speaker 1: he was feeding five people down in that base, four
Speaker 1: people down in that I don't anyway. I've also learned,
Speaker 1: like for as well as from so many cases that
Speaker 1: we've covered, Like women are so fucking strong and resilient,
Speaker 1: it's insane. Like I truly don't think.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Show me a story of a man being held captive
Speaker 1: in a basement for twenty four years and being forced
Speaker 1: to give birth to children with their own parent, and
Speaker 1: how they can come out of it and try to
Speaker 1: make a happy life for themselves. I just don't think
Speaker 1: you're gonna see it. I think most men would have
Speaker 1: gone insane by then. That's a really good one. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: I just think women are so strong and like I
Speaker 1: just I like I said, I had one baby in
Speaker 1: a hospital. This woman had seven babies in a dungeon. Like,
Speaker 1: she's extremely strong.
Speaker 2: Also, we learn this almost every week, but that Marishka
Speaker 2: is incredible to everybody.
Speaker 1: So yeah, a never ending lesson. Yeah, oh yeah, don't
Speaker 1: buy the New York Posts. Sex Slave in the City
Speaker 1: is not a pennycute title. Not that New York Post
Speaker 1: ever wrote that, but it's clearly based on the New
Speaker 1: York Post.
Speaker 2: They've done lots of bad things. You just told me.
Speaker 1: Recently they like outed, Yeah, outed an AMC who had
Speaker 1: an OnlyFans. Yeah, they're great, Like, how is that even news?
Speaker 2: Motherfucker? We're in a recession. Like, yeah, people want money
Speaker 2: and you gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you need like newspaper to like scrape up
Speaker 1: your dog shit, then you can buy the Post. But
Speaker 1: that's it.
Speaker 2: No one is using newspaper to pick up dog shit.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't have a dog. It's not going to protect you.
Speaker 2: I don't have a dog.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it works.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, you know this isn't right, but if you
Speaker 2: have someone comes to your home claiming to be a
Speaker 2: miss you, you can't trust them. Get a DNA test immediately. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that's wild about this case you took
Speaker 1: us through is that it was in the nineties, and
Speaker 1: like you could have easily just been like, okay, great, left.
Speaker 1: We could just get a droplet of your blood to
Speaker 1: compare it against his, and we'll be on our way,
Speaker 1: Like just to even or to compare it even against
Speaker 1: the mothers, to make sure that you're a child of
Speaker 1: the mother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just don't take in loose strangers. Also, don't allow
Speaker 2: people to have phones in their jail cells when they're
Speaker 2: known to call and commit crimes.
Speaker 1: That was on that Chameleon podcast. I was telling you
Speaker 1: about two This guy was running scams out of jail too. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand how people have all this access to
Speaker 1: internet and technology and jail.
Speaker 2: But well, in SVU, I've learned that sometimes the real
Speaker 2: big gangs are run from the prisons, and like the
Speaker 2: outside gang is actually just taking orders from the inside
Speaker 2: prison stuff.
Speaker 1: That's a sure.
Speaker 2: We've learned that through episodes. Throughout time, we learn a
Speaker 2: lot from this show. Can I add one thing that
Speaker 2: I learned? Yes, if you're going to come back as
Speaker 2: another human being, you don't have to look anything like them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can just impersonate someone with different air. You
Speaker 1: have a news job, just get a cheesy tattoo and
Speaker 1: you can be that person.
Speaker 2: But actually to spin that in a good way, you know,
Speaker 2: the impostor guy from the doc, he was very much
Speaker 2: like you just have to believe it and convince people.
Speaker 2: And maybe we could flip that in a positive way
Speaker 2: of like when you go to job interviews or go
Speaker 2: out for an opportunity, Oh yeah, bake it till you
Speaker 2: make it, baby, Like you got to convince people that
Speaker 2: you deserve these jobs and opportunities and moments, and like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we can all take a life
Speaker 1: lesson from an impostor.
Speaker 2: For sure, go flirt with someone you thinks out of
Speaker 2: your league and be like convince them that no, you're
Speaker 2: gonna date me, You're worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just to spend some criminal knowledge. Okay, now
Speaker 1: it is time for what would sister Peg do? This
Speaker 1: is our weekly segment where we direct you guys to resources, articles,
Speaker 1: organizations that touch on the topics that we discussed in
Speaker 1: today's episode. So this week we are going to be
Speaker 1: shouting out the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 1: Their website is Missingkids dot org. You can donate, you
Speaker 1: can find resources on getting help, and find out a
Speaker 1: lot about their work and education at this website, and
Speaker 1: it's really a great organization, So please head on over
Speaker 1: to Missingkids dot org for more.
Speaker 2: Next week were covering the episode Broken Rhyme, Season eighteen,
Speaker 2: episode six. You can catch all the episodes on Hulu
Speaker 2: and peacock. And if you'd like to get to know
Speaker 2: us more in our comedic stylings, we do both have
Speaker 2: comedy albums out Kara Klinks is called Undefeated and one
Speaker 2: of the best album covers out there, and my album
Speaker 2: is called Glitter Cheese and my titties are out on
Speaker 2: the cover, so you know, just for that, Yeah, listen
Speaker 2: to our albums.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up
Speaker 2: Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow
Speaker 2: us personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton, and to.
Speaker 1: Our sound engineer and personal hero Analie Nilson, and to
Speaker 1: Henry Kaperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews
Speaker 1: for our art work. Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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