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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huttle on giants

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Speaker 1: dot com, part of the Giants Podcast. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: newest episode of the Giant Subtle Podcast. I am John Schmolke.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest Giants beat reporter for the New York Post

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Speaker 1: Paul Schwartz. Before we get the Paul, I want to

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Speaker 1: remind you that you can find the Giant Subtle Podcast

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Speaker 1: and all of the programs on our podcast network, which

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Speaker 1: is presented by Investors Bank at giants dot com, Slash podcast,

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Speaker 1: on your favorite podcast platforms, and on the Giants Mobile app.

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Speaker 1: And now we're bringing our guest. He is Paul Schwartz.

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Speaker 1: He's been covering the New York Giants for a very

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Speaker 1: long time for the New York Post. Paul, what year

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Speaker 1: did you just complete in your beat journey? Sixty seven year? John, Oh,

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Speaker 1: so you see you've actually covered the one more year

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Speaker 1: than Ta Tino. Then yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I

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Speaker 1: was the one who remember I remember during I said

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Speaker 1: Rosie Brown is gonna be a good player, you know,

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Speaker 1: to take Rosie Brown's an offensive lineman. And I said,

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Speaker 1: why eate tittle ever, never gonna do it? So no,

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Speaker 1: this is actually um Um, you can do the math.

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Speaker 1: My first year coming the Giants, it was Dan Reeves

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Speaker 1: second year, so that's um that goes back aways. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that is going on twenty seven seasons. I believe

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Speaker 1: if counts is a year. So yeah, that's not bad. Paul.

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Speaker 1: So you've been through a lot of these kind of

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Speaker 1: end the season wrap ups, and I guess this is

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Speaker 1: a good place to start. What were your overall takeaways

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Speaker 1: from what you heard from Joe Judge, John Mara, and

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Speaker 1: Dave Gettleman for their end of season press conferences. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've been through a lot of end of season wrap ups,

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Speaker 1: but never one virtually. You'll say, you that much, you know,

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Speaker 1: never won remotely. Uh, this was not Baggie Day. This

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Speaker 1: was like Zoomie did right, I mean Zoomie Week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you know, the the the the traditional go

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Speaker 1: in the locker room there there's you know, people say,

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Speaker 1: why do they call it baggie Day? They're literally your bags.

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Speaker 1: They're literally a black bags and people, you know, players

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Speaker 1: are shoving their belongings into black bags and you're talking

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Speaker 1: to them. And after a good season they're upbeating. After

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Speaker 1: a down season, they're morose. Um, this was This was

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Speaker 1: an unusual one in a lot of ways, John, first

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Speaker 1: of all, because it wasn't like we knew this day

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Speaker 1: was coming when it happened. Because the Giants were in

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Speaker 1: a bizarre playoff race, as we know. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: if they would have got some help from the Eagles

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Speaker 1: and from um, Doug Peterson not having an aneurysm in

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Speaker 1: his head or something, and you know, not playing Nate Sutfeldt,

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Speaker 1: maybe the Giants would have been in the playoffs. So

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Speaker 1: we didn't know. You know, a lot of times when

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Speaker 1: the team is five and ten after fifteen games, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know next week they're playing the game on Sunday, Monday,

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Speaker 1: it's baggy day. Everything's being cleaned up. So this was

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, it ended abruptly, and I think

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Speaker 1: people are generally upbeat, but uh, it's kind of a dichotomy,

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Speaker 1: right because they were in a playoff race, but only

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Speaker 1: because if they made the playoffs at six and ten,

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Speaker 1: they would have the worst record to ever go into

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Speaker 1: the playoffs because of the historically bad division. Um. It

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Speaker 1: was a step up from last year, but after winning

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Speaker 1: fourth straight to get them back into this kind of

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Speaker 1: pseudo race, they lost three games in a row in

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Speaker 1: in in you know, really bad form. So um, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was imperative to it the very least beat

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Speaker 1: the cowboys that just you know, get some deodorizer into

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Speaker 1: the building, you know, and and start smelling a little

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Speaker 1: better about things, which did happen. Um, people are upbeat

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Speaker 1: with Joe Judge, maybe not so upbeat with some of

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Speaker 1: the talent on the team. So I think it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a mixed bag. Actually, all right, let's start here,

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Speaker 1: I thought one of the big takeaways, Paul, and then

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Speaker 1: we can expand off of this, you know, Joe Judge

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Speaker 1: said this, Dave Gentleman said it, and then most importantly,

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Speaker 1: John Marras said this that he loved the way Judge

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Speaker 1: and Gettleman worked together. And that's something I noted after

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Speaker 1: we went through Judges press conference last year and he

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Speaker 1: talked about how he wanted to build a team, what

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Speaker 1: he wanted his team to feel like, the type of

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Speaker 1: players that he wanted it. Frankly, to me, jibed with

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Speaker 1: the type of roster construction and players that Dave gettle

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Speaker 1: Men is often talking about smart players, tough players, you know,

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Speaker 1: things of that nature, and it seems like they did

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Speaker 1: work pretty well together in free agency, in the draft

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Speaker 1: and roster construction to get the type of players that

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Speaker 1: Joe Judge wanted to coach. Well, there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: things there, John. First of all, Joe Judge said it

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Speaker 1: when he was introduced, and he said it the other

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Speaker 1: day after the season is death. He went to the Giants,

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Speaker 1: which means John Mara and Steve Tish and especially Dave Gentleman,

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Speaker 1: and said, we got to build this the right way,

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Speaker 1: you know. And what he meant was, look, we don't

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Speaker 1: have to falsely inflate the talent on this team for

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Speaker 1: a year so I can get off to a good start.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of coaches come in a young

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Speaker 1: coach like that and says, look, I need some players here,

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Speaker 1: I need some I need some guys. You gotta help

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Speaker 1: me here, you know. I mean, I see what you

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Speaker 1: did to the last guy in two years, so right,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So you know I don't

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Speaker 1: need to go five and five and eleven here and

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Speaker 1: have you wondering if you made the right decision. But

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Speaker 1: Joe Judge said, look, we want to win, we wanted this.

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Speaker 1: We gotta build it the right way. So they made

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Speaker 1: their personnel moves with in concert with Joe Judge and

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Speaker 1: Dave Gedlman to let's build this, let's lots sell our

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Speaker 1: soul for now. They did sign some one year guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not a lot of money. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: Kylo Facrol was a hit. Logan Ryan was a big hit, right,

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Speaker 1: Graham Gonno was a big, big hit, and then they

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Speaker 1: resigned him and they resigned Logan Ryan. So that's number one.

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Speaker 1: And everyone tells us that Joe Judge and Dave Gelman

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Speaker 1: essentially see the game the same way, see players the

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Speaker 1: same way. They like big guys, they like running the ball,

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Speaker 1: they like playing defense. They valued defensive lineman. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: just because Joe Judge spent eight years in New England

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean he rubber stamped everything that went on under

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Speaker 1: Bill Belichick. He didn't run the show. It wasn't his vision.

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Speaker 1: It was Bill Belichick's vision, and Joe Judge fit a

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Speaker 1: role in that vision. I'm sure there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: what Bill Belichick did that Joe Judge loves, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean he's going to construct the exact same roster

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Speaker 1: that Bill Belichick did. And also, by the way, Bill

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Speaker 1: Belichick didn't put the yeather the same roster year to

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Speaker 1: year either, right, he was like a chameleon. So I

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Speaker 1: think the fact that Joe Judge people were saying, Look,

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Speaker 1: if Joe Judge doesn't want Dave Gettleman here, he's not

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Speaker 1: going to be here. That's not the way it works

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Speaker 1: with the giants. You know, the head coach does not

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Speaker 1: have authority to go to the owner and say get

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Speaker 1: the g m out. But if Dave Gettleman was being

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Speaker 1: a hardass about things, and and and and he John

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Speaker 1: Mara had a broker truces all the time. He wants

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Speaker 1: this guy. I don't want this guy. He sees it

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Speaker 1: this way, I see it that way. That would have

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Speaker 1: been a problem. And in a power struggle, Joe Judge

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Speaker 1: would have won because he's in his first year and um,

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Speaker 1: you know he's the fair haired boy now and Dave

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Speaker 1: Gettiman was coming off two years that weren't so good.

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Speaker 1: But that didn't happen. Uh, Cooler heads prevailed, Smartness in

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Speaker 1: the room prevailed, and these guys can work together, and

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Speaker 1: you know so much for this, well, Dave Gettiman might

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Speaker 1: be on the way out and Joe Judge is on

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Speaker 1: the way and you have to have a synergy between

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Speaker 1: the GM and the coach. You do, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean a sixty nine year old and a thirty world

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Speaker 1: can't have synergy. And it seems like they did have synergy. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And you know, we filled a lot of calls over

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Speaker 1: the performance over the last three years with with Dave

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Speaker 1: Gentelman as the general manager, and John Marra spoke about

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Speaker 1: the missteps in days first year in eighteen. Uh Davis

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Speaker 1: talked about in the passphile on that first year he

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Speaker 1: tried to kind of rebuild and compete at the same time,

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Speaker 1: which was always a very you know, narrow needle to thread,

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Speaker 1: but he tried and it didn't work, and they talked

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Speaker 1: about those miscalculations. But since then, the specifically you mentioned

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Speaker 1: this offseason, you know, there seems to be progress in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. To to use John Marra's phrasing, the

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Speaker 1: batting average has certainly gone up. So to me, that

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Speaker 1: explains why they're sticking status quo here is that they're

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Speaker 1: prioritizing what's happened in the last year year and a

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Speaker 1: half as opposed to what happened when Dave first came on.

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Speaker 1: Three years ago. Yeah, you can't do revisionist history. John.

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Speaker 1: As far as after last season, Pat Sherman was let

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Speaker 1: go after two years, So, I mean that's a big

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Speaker 1: miss for an organization to have a coach for two years,

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Speaker 1: especially not a young coordinator. And okay, we thought he'd

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Speaker 1: be good. It just didn't work out. Pat Sherman had

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Speaker 1: been in the league, he'd been at head coach before.

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Speaker 1: You kind of thought you knew what you were getting

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Speaker 1: with him. And after two years they giants just said, look,

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Speaker 1: we made a mistake. We got to move on here.

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Speaker 1: So that was a big hit for John Mara and

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Speaker 1: for Dave Gentleman because they both signed off on Pat

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Speaker 1: Sherman and now you move forward. And Dave Getherman in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, as you said, right, he looks at it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he felt pressure to say, look, we gotta win,

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Speaker 1: We gotta you know, patch some holes here. The whole

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Speaker 1: Ali Manning thing was was, um, you know, just hovering

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Speaker 1: over the building, Elis on his way down. How much

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Speaker 1: of it was Eli's fault, how much was it was

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Speaker 1: because he was getting older, how much of it was

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Speaker 1: they just didn't put enough things around him that really

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Speaker 1: just was a real drain on the whole organization. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and it was not handled great at times there, but

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Speaker 1: that's going back. The key is John Mara after last year,

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Speaker 1: put Dave Getleman on note us. The team has to

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Speaker 1: get better. Personnel decisions have to get better, and as

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Speaker 1: you said, the batting average has to get better. So

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Speaker 1: they didn't fire him because he hit two thirty five

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Speaker 1: last year. They said, you need to hit three, three,

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Speaker 1: ten or whatever the numbers. You need to improve. So

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Speaker 1: after he did, we can talk about it, right, Blake Martinez,

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Speaker 1: James Bradberry, Logan, Ryan um Kyler, Factral Graham, Gonno, who

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Speaker 1: you know just hit his eight hundred straight field, so

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Speaker 1: you know he hid in free agency. The draft is

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Speaker 1: a mixed bag, but by and large it seems like

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Speaker 1: the arrows pointing up for the draft class. A lot

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Speaker 1: of guys made contributions this year. So Dave hit his

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Speaker 1: three hundred this year. Now, the people who said, well,

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Speaker 1: why didn't they fire him, the team went, the team

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Speaker 1: went five, you know, six and ten. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, there are signs of progress. His batting

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Speaker 1: average did improve, So you can't go back now and say, well,

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Speaker 1: you hit three ten, but I'm still firing you because

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Speaker 1: you hit two thirty five. Last year. You didn't fire

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Speaker 1: reading two thirty five, so you have to be consistent

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Speaker 1: with that. That's why it made sense to keep him

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Speaker 1: this year. Moving forward, now he doesn't have a lifetime contract.

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Speaker 1: The Dave Brown The Day the Dave Brown. Oh my gosh, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I talk about people. That happens when all those sixty

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Speaker 1: seven years of covering the team catches up to you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I I I Daniel Jones. I am

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Speaker 1: sorry for that. Okay, but Daniel Jones situation after last

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Speaker 1: year looked better than it does this year. Maybe some

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Speaker 1: people in the building would would would not agree with that,

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Speaker 1: but you know, Dave get him in is hitched his

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Speaker 1: wagon to Daniel Jones, so um, it has to play out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know what, you know what John

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Speaker 1: look not to digress, but we live in a pretty

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Speaker 1: angry society and and and it's just you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's not get political here. But um, unless you want

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Speaker 1: to please I understand, I said so, it's a family,

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Speaker 1: giants oriented podcast. But um, I never understood how people

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Speaker 1: have this this this blood thirst to fire people in

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Speaker 1: the media as fans. I get it. Fans of passionate,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, get you know. I'm a fan of teams,

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Speaker 1: and I get him out, get him out, get him out.

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Speaker 1: I I get it. But that I just say that

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Speaker 1: from my couch. I don't go on social media or

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Speaker 1: you know, right stuff or blog stuff or you know,

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Speaker 1: say stuff on podcast. You know, every person you fire,

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Speaker 1: you fire him, you fire his wife, you fire his kids,

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Speaker 1: you fire his grandkids. And he has grandkids. So let's

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Speaker 1: lighten up with fire and everybody. Let the guys do

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Speaker 1: their job, criticize when need be. But I don't understand

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Speaker 1: just this this, you know, thumbs up, thumbs down for

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Speaker 1: everything in the world. Yeah, and Paul, I think, and

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Speaker 1: I've tried to think about this psychologically too. And when

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Speaker 1: you when I you know, you you've experienced more in

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Speaker 1: New York sports than I have. But and what I've

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Speaker 1: seen fans go through cycles. Right first, they try to

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Speaker 1: blame the coach and they say, all right, if you

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Speaker 1: change the coach everything, we'll get better. Okay, that didn't work. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: what other one thing can we change to fix everything? Oh?

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Speaker 1: The general manager? Okay, we'll change him. Okay, we changed

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Speaker 1: him and everything didn't get better. All right, Well, then

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Speaker 1: who's next on the list? All right, the star player, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's gotta be his fault, right, Just go back to

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Speaker 1: the next right, It's like, all right, well it was

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Speaker 1: all Don Nelson's fault. That knows all Patrick Ewing's fault.

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Speaker 1: And you just go down the list and everyone tries

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Speaker 1: to find that one switch that they can flip that's

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Speaker 1: going to solve their problems, rather than you know, accepting

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Speaker 1: what's oftentimes, quite frankly, as a hard truth that taking

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Speaker 1: a team from the whole that the Giants are in

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Speaker 1: quite frankly when Dave got hired, and bringing them out

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Speaker 1: of it into a competitive winner is a long, tough

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Speaker 1: slog and it's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna

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Speaker 1: be a straight line. It's gonna be bumpy, and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of different issues with the team that

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Speaker 1: that explains why they have only won the number of

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Speaker 1: games they have in the last three years. And it's

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Speaker 1: not just one person's fault. It's not And and look,

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Speaker 1: I think this is a universal statement that if you

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Speaker 1: look at the best franchises and you look at the

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Speaker 1: worst franchises in sports, the worst franchises have a lot

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Speaker 1: of transition, a lot of change. They don't stick with people.

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Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean you stick with someone and you

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Speaker 1: stick with someone and you stick with someone and you

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Speaker 1: clearly can't get the job done. The key is number one.

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Speaker 1: Hire good people and then let them work. Let them

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Speaker 1: work and do their job, and at some point, if

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Speaker 1: you have smart ownership, they can look at it and

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Speaker 1: say it's on the right track. We keep going, or

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Speaker 1: they say, you know what, it's only been three years,

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Speaker 1: but I don't I don't get a good feel here,

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Speaker 1: and we move on. But but if you want to

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Speaker 1: change every year or so, or you know, go with

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Speaker 1: the flavor of the month, it's never going to work. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you hire the wrong person, you gotta get rid

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Speaker 1: of them. But you don't know that until they've proved

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Speaker 1: that they can't do the job, and you have to

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Speaker 1: give people some space to do it or else. What

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Speaker 1: you get is a guy comes in and he makes

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Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy moves, and you you you look

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Speaker 1: at two thousand and sixteen, right, that was a complete

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Speaker 1: band aid to get this team back up to snuff.

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Speaker 1: And they went eleven and five and they made the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: and they assembled a mercenary defense that played really well

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Speaker 1: and it lasted one season. Okay, you want that every

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Speaker 1: every five, six, seven years, go for it, But that's

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Speaker 1: not any kind of way that you know that you

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Speaker 1: sold your soul for a momentary flash and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: amount to anything. Yeah, and by the way, it puts

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Speaker 1: you in that hole for the next two or three years.

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Speaker 1: That made it very hard to get at him. So

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Speaker 1: I'm Paul. I'm with the percent on that, no question

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Speaker 1: about it. I want to remind fans that um that

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Speaker 1: Giant fans. You get a Giant's checking account from Investors Bank,

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Speaker 1: with the Giants brand, the debit cards, security features, and

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Speaker 1: discounts at the Giants online shop, you're gonna earn up

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Speaker 1: the chorge of fifty dollars when you open an account.

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Speaker 1: And Investors Bank dot com slash Giants member f d

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Speaker 1: I C. We're joined by Paul Schwartz from the New

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Speaker 1: York Post, and Paul, let's go hear them because you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Daniel Jones, and I think a smaller minority of

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Speaker 1: fans want the Giants to move on from Daniel Jones.

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Speaker 1: And look, I get the counting stats weren't the same

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Speaker 1: this year, specifically the touchdown passes, and yes that's important.

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Speaker 1: The Giants scored on average one fewer touchdown per game

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Speaker 1: on offense this year than they did last. Not what

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Speaker 1: you're looking for. I get it. But here's the problem

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Speaker 1: I have. Where's the quarterback coming from? That? You know

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Speaker 1: it's going to be better than Daniel Jones is gonna

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Speaker 1: be here for a long time. To me, it's a

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Speaker 1: no brainer to bring him back for another year to

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Speaker 1: let him develop. It's not like they're sitting there with

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Speaker 1: the first overall pick in the draft and they can

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Speaker 1: and then they could take Trevor Lawrence here or something

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Speaker 1: like that. So I don't understand the Giant fans that

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Speaker 1: that want to bowl on Jones so quickly after just

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Speaker 1: two years, even though to your point, his second year

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Speaker 1: wasn't at least numerically as productive as his first. Well,

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Speaker 1: they're all fans John who didn't like him in the

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Speaker 1: first place, you know what I mean. So it's not

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Speaker 1: like they said I love him, Okay, now I don't

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Speaker 1: like it any more, though you know they do. Was

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Speaker 1: do was? I was surprised when they picked him at

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Speaker 1: number six. I was to you know, I was surprised,

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Speaker 1: and and yeah, you can't you you can't say I

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Speaker 1: don't want this quarterback, so get another quarterback. No, who

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Speaker 1: is the other quarterback? And and and quarterbacks come out

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Speaker 1: and around a year. Now if you say, well, Trevor

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Speaker 1: Lawrence is generational, so they don't come around like him

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Speaker 1: every year, that's fine. He might be generational, he might

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Speaker 1: not be. And you know what, by the way, this

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Speaker 1: whole generational phrase has not been around long, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's so, I mean, what the hell is generational?

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I mean, you know he's generational. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know the first pick in the draft, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers a generational He was picked down at the

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Speaker 1: end of the first round. I don't know what I mean. Look, Matt,

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Speaker 1: look the Giants were were guilty of this, say Kwan

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Speaker 1: Barkley is a generational talent. Well, you know what, how

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Speaker 1: about if we judge generational after like, the guy has

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Speaker 1: five years in the league and he is unbelievably great,

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Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, this guy could be

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Speaker 1: a generational player. To put that on someone preemptively, I

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Speaker 1: think it's unfair. And by the way, and to your point, Paul,

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Speaker 1: You go back to the last three years and all

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Speaker 1: the quarterbacks picked. You know, Daniel Jones is right in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the pack. You know, three years ago

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Speaker 1: the Giants gonna pick Josh Rosen. Imagine whether it would

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Speaker 1: have been if the did that, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just one of those things where you know,

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Speaker 1: in the draft especially, there are just no shore fire

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Speaker 1: answers no matter where you pick. Now, there aren't. Look,

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Speaker 1: Josh Allen, DeShawn Watson, you know there there are people

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Speaker 1: all over the place that did You could take Lamar Jackson. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's a guy you have to fit into

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Speaker 1: your you know, creative scheme for But he's certainly he's

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Speaker 1: winning games and he's you know, running all over the

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Speaker 1: place and leading his team into the playoffs. But um, now,

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair to be skeptical of Daniel Jones.

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Speaker 1: I really do. And also I mean I and this

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Speaker 1: is not good form a guy in his second year.

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Speaker 1: I felt considerably better about Daniel Jones. If you called

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Speaker 1: me last year at this time, then I do this

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Speaker 1: year at this time. And that's not good. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's not good at all. I understand coronavirus, no offseason,

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Speaker 1: new offense, new offensive coordinator, new quarterbacks coach, new head coach,

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Speaker 1: no practice, no O t A S. I get all that.

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Speaker 1: I get all that which every other team had to

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Speaker 1: deal with. Also, not every team had to deal with

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Speaker 1: a new offensive coordinator and things like debt. I get

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Speaker 1: all that. Um, Look, Joe Judge is he's a lying

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Speaker 1: or he feels that Daniel Jones is a is a

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Speaker 1: guy he can work with to to lead him to

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Speaker 1: a winning winning a lot of games with the Giants. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I have not covered Joe Judge for a long time.

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Speaker 1: He may do something in this offseason. Holy cow, maybe

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Speaker 1: he's not so sold on Daniel Jones. What I think

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Speaker 1: has to happen is the quarterback room has to be

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Speaker 1: upgraded with talent. Okay, and Colt McCoy is a free agent.

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Speaker 1: Everyone loves Colt McCoy. The Giants have to have someone

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Speaker 1: in their building other than Daniel Jones who they feel

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Speaker 1: if Daniel Jones gets hurt or we want to God forbid,

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Speaker 1: which nowadays you can't do that. You know, in the

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Speaker 1: third quarter, pull our quarterback because he's not playing well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, years ago you could pull a quarterback,

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Speaker 1: you could put your relief picture in. He could maybe

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Speaker 1: win the game from you. And then oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the next week you're starting quarterback is starting again. Nowadays,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, we can't do that. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's such a bad idea. They have to

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Speaker 1: have someone in the building who can play, and who

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Speaker 1: whether he's or thirty two, whatever, he is his age

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Speaker 1: and so if Daniel Jones sprains his ankle or is

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Speaker 1: having a bad game, you can put him in and

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Speaker 1: you don't have to say, oh boy, um, run the

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Speaker 1: ball game, manager, play defense, punt field position. You gotta

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Speaker 1: have someone who can play, uh, and someone who maybe

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Speaker 1: lights a little fire under Daniel Jones too. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I don't know if he needs a fire

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Speaker 1: lit unto him, but it's never a bad thing. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, next year at this time, if we're doing this,

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Speaker 1: we will have a very clear indication of what Daniel

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Speaker 1: Jones is. The third year is key for a quarterback

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Speaker 1: and if he's not a lot better, he needs to

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Speaker 1: get a lot better. Uh. Then the Giants have problems

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Speaker 1: when you look at the offense Paul in general, and

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Speaker 1: you want to try to put your finger on the

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Speaker 1: pulse in terms of why the offense lacked of the

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Speaker 1: production that it needed to win games this year. And

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, seven points per game in the modern NFL,

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Speaker 1: you're not winning many games. You're just not. I don't

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Speaker 1: care how good your defense is. So I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say play the blame game. But if you wanna

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Speaker 1: go under the hood and figure out why the engine

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Speaker 1: wasn't moving the way it's supposed to, where would you

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Speaker 1: place your finger? Okay, um, I would place my finger

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Speaker 1: on whatever player and turf at Soldier Field aspired to

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Speaker 1: knock Kon Barkley out in after six quarters this year.

423
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: Now that that's not an absolution. Okay, the Giants low

424
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 1: sa Kwan Barkley. We can't expect them to have a

425
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: good offense. But there's only so many dynamic guys you

426
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: can have. Notice I didn't say generational, right, There's only

427
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: so many dynamic guys you can have on your offense.

428
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: And other than the Chiefs, you know what I mean.

429
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: You only have so many of them. And say Kwan

430
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: Barkley was the Giants guy and he got hurt and

431
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 1: he missed the season and that was a big problem. Now,

432
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: Wayne Goldman did some nice things about the Freeman and

433
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: Alfred Mars, but those guys are stopped gaps. You know,

434
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: they can get the yard if if the plays locked

435
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: up for him, they can get the arts. Kwan is

436
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: a difference maker. So the offense was built around a

437
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: difference maker. Who wasn't there a big problem? Um, there

438
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: was no dynamism to their offense at all. Okay, there

439
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 1: was an Evan Ingram made the Pro Bowl. I love

440
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: Evan Ingram did not deserve to make the Pro Bowl. Um,

441
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: and he's a you know he I don't think he

442
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 1: had a great year. Okay, I think he's he's a

443
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: he's a player on the rise, but he didn't rise

444
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: enough at all. Sterling Shepard is a battler and a

445
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 1: good player. He's not a number one receiver. Darius Slayton

446
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: kind of had a milktoast second year. Golden Tate is

447
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: what he is. I don't expect him to be back.

448
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: So the offensive line was very young. They they got

449
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: guys in. Uh, they struggled early. Nick Gates was bad

450
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 1: the first month. Andrew Thomas was bad the first month.

451
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: They got better, you know, they got better, and that's good.

452
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: That's the that's the curve you want is to get better.

453
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: But um, uh, did did Jason Garrett do a great

454
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: job of justing to having an offense without sa Kwon Barkley?

455
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: Probably not? You put all that together, Uh, it was

456
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: a problem. I mean, it's the reason why the Giants

457
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: aren't in the playoffs. Their defense was good enough, the

458
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: offense was really not. You mentioned Jason Garrett, and I

459
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: guess I should follow up with that. Do you expect

460
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: any changes on the coaching staff aside from obviously you

461
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: know who knows what the offensive line situation and Brett

462
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: Pilomo left in in mid season. Do you expect, though,

463
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: any other big changes on the staff coming? Well, I

464
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: I there is another thing, you know. It's I think

465
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: Joe Judge has some surprises up a sleeve, because uh,

466
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 1: he seems like a guy after one year running the

467
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: show is going to have very definite opinions. And I

468
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: think there'll be some players who you and I would

469
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: talk privately and say, oh yeah, he'll be back, and

470
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: he won't be back, you know, and and coaches. I

471
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: do I sense that he's going to get rid of

472
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: Jason Garrett. I do not know now that decision could

473
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: be made for him if the Chargers or another team

474
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: hire him. I think that's kind of a long shot.

475
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: But when you interview, as you know, have you interview,

476
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: you're you're not nearly as much of a long shot

477
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: as if you don't interview. So um, you know, it

478
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,959
Speaker 1: only takes one seemed to fall in love with you

479
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: and Jason Garrett uh in some ways might have more

480
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: going for him as a head coach and he does

481
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: as an offensive coordinator. And that's almost not even a

482
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: backhanded compliment. Um so um, I would be surprised at that,

483
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think there was tension between the two.

484
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if the Mark Colombo firing

485
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: is a hit against Jason Garrett. It probably isn't. It's

486
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: not a feather in his cap though, because he obviously

487
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: um vouch for Mark Colombo and there were problems there

488
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: every about the bye week. It's hard to say. I

489
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: I just don't think anyone has unless there were real,

490
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: real philosophical problems. That does anyone have an appetite for

491
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: giving Daniel Jones a third offense in three years? I mean,

492
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: that is that is the thing when you talk about

493
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: firing guys, not keeping guys. That is the the formula

494
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: for routing a quarterback is to give him different systems,

495
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: three of them in three years. That will ruin almost

496
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: any quarterback. They don't need to do that with Daniel Jones. Yeah,

497
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm that poll and I think you know, that would

498
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: be an absolute recipe for disaster. And frankly, then when

499
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: we got back here after the third year, you said

500
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: we would know a lot more about him. What we

501
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't know as much about him if he has to

502
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: do that third system in three years. And and and and

503
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: that's something you kind of want to avoid. The New

504
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: York Giants in Quest Didygnostics want our friends to come

505
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: back stronger than ever. Now you can order your own

506
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: lab test to Quest Direct to get the health answers

507
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: you need most all, right, let's go to the defensive

508
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: side of the ball. Paul, and I thought this was

509
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: just such a pleasant surprise for me because heading into

510
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: this season, I thought this defense quite frankly, was gonna

511
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: be bad. I thought they were gonna give a lot

512
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: of points, and quite frankly, it was. It was a

513
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: strength of the team. And I think you really got

514
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: to tip your cap to first to coaching staff for

515
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: putting the players into a position and into a system

516
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: that took advantage of their talent. But then I think

517
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: you have to give the players a lot of credit

518
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: for accepting that coaching, executing it, executing a complicated system,

519
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: putting the extra film work in. From the guys I've

520
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: talked to, I'm sure you have too, Paul, sounds like

521
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: these guys put a lot of work in, not just

522
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: in the meetings, but outside the meeting is getting ready

523
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: for these games and learning the system to play the

524
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: way Patrick Graham wanted them to do in order to

525
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: play as well as they did this year. And that

526
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: goes from the secondary with Logan Ryan and Bradberry up front,

527
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: to Blake Martinez, Leonard Williams. You just had to tip

528
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: your cap to that entire staff and defensive roster for

529
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: the job they did this year. Oh, Patrick Graham is

530
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: um you know, I don't I don't know if I

531
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: want to call him a rising star right now, but

532
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, Patrick, the coaching that the Giants got on

533
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: defense this year was markedly better than they got the

534
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: last two years. There's no question about that. And and

535
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: you know, I thought Patrick Graham had to go through

536
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: some growing pains with this group. It was an interesting group.

537
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: He had to manufacture pass rush other than Leonard Williams

538
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: getting eleven and a half sacks. There was nothing manufactured

539
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: about that. He put his hands in the ground, he

540
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: rushed the quarterback, he beat his man, and he got sacked.

541
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: There was no scheme involved there. Now, they moved around

542
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: a little bit and do some stunts and twists, but

543
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: you know that's Leonard Williams. But this team had what

544
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: forty sacks this year, um with with you know, very

545
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: little production from the edge, right, Kyle factul a little bit. Um.

546
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: You know, Lorenzo Carter got hurt, O'Shane zim Andez got hurt.

547
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: Marcus Golden got traded and he wasn't playing before he

548
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: got traded. So, um, it was a really inverted way

549
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: to rush the passer with no edge. You know, there

550
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: was just no edge and pressure. But they still got

551
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: forty sacks, which was a big improvement. Um. It's very

552
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: difficult to sign a bunch of guys and put them

553
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: in and say okay, we're gonna we're gonna go really,

554
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: you know, go right, and not miss anything. Blake Martinez

555
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: was a perfect signing. Perfect. He and Patrick Graham of

556
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: the same person. You know, one's a black defensive coordinator

557
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: once a white inside linebacker. But they're the same person,

558
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: they think the same way. They they have a great relationship.

559
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: You know. Logan Ryan was a guy who kicked around

560
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: and was unemployed and they signed him one year and

561
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: they kind of like that that he's a Joe Judge

562
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: guy who kind of spread the culture. He was better

563
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: than I thought he was. Jabrill Peppers played well. I

564
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: think he'll still played better. You know, James Bradberry was

565
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: the guy they signed for sixteen million year um. And

566
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: and usually when you sign a guy like that who's

567
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: not a super duperstar and he gets that money, you're

568
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: you're overreaching. You you have a need, you fill the need.

569
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: And like kind of like the innate Soldier situation. Good guy,

570
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: good player, not worth the money. Uh, in a lot

571
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: of ways. Um, James Bradberry was more than worth the money.

572
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: I think he was the m v P of the team.

573
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: I really do, because, um, nothing happens on that defense

574
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: unless James Bradberry, unless Patrick Graham could count on James

575
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: Bradberry to do what he did every week more so

576
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: than any other player. So, um yeah, we'll see if

577
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: they can keep this group together. They need help, They

578
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: need help at cornerback, they need edge. But um, you

579
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: know this, probably maybe seven names we could you know,

580
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: roll off right now that you say good go to

581
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: war with them next year, and then you know they

582
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: need guys like Lorenzo Carter and O'Shane Simmons to come

583
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: back and contribute their young edge guys you know, not

584
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: not making a lot of money, very versatile. I'm very

585
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: interested to see what the defensive backfield does next year.

586
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean when you have Xavian McKinney, who really you know,

587
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: the Giants fans got to see just a you know,

588
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: they got a bite of that meal, you know what

589
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: I mean, They got a bite. They got a couple

590
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: of games we after he broke his foot. H McKinney,

591
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: Julian Love Logan, Ryan Jabrill. Peppers are incredibly versatile players.

592
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: I didn't say they're incredible players, but they're incredibly versatile players.

593
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: And match that with Patrick Graham's head and his brain power.

594
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: That's good stuff. Holmes done. Holmes pretty good too. Yeah, No, question.

595
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: All right, and I think you kind of brought this up, Paul.

596
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: Can you keep this group together? And I think this

597
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: is a good way to transition out of the off season,

598
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: and before we even get into adding a playmaker on offense,

599
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: which which we'll talk about in a second. I mean,

600
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: mission number one has to be to make sure that

601
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: your strength stays your strength, right, So the Giants are ready,

602
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: got Logan Ryan on an extension, good signing. Bring them

603
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: back to your point. But now you have two of

604
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: your three big cogs in that interior path rush to

605
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: your point. You know you stopped the run. You can

606
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: keep too. Safety is deep. It allows you to do

607
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: the stuff. You do, all that stuff back there because

608
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: your front so strong. And that's where the pass rush

609
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: came from too. So you have Dalvin Tomlinson who's reaching

610
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: the end of his rookie deal. You have Leonard Williams

611
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: coming off the franchise to had coming off a career year.

612
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: We don't know what the salary cap is gonna be,

613
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: So how do the Giants do this math and calculus

614
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: in terms of how much of their assets they can

615
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: dedicate to that one group in a year where the

616
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: cap could be a little deflated, but still keep the

617
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: strength of that defense together. I think it's gonna be

618
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: a real tough balancing act depending on where that cap

619
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: comes in. Yeah, it was it one seventy or one ninety.

620
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: We just don't know. That could be the difference between

621
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: Dalvin Tomlinson and not Dalvin Thomlinson unless they have, you know,

622
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: do some cap cutting. What did Dave Gentleman say after

623
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: the season, He said, I tell all these players, you know,

624
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: play like crazy on the field. You know, I'm rooting

625
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: for you to go crazy on the field and play great,

626
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: and then afterwards come in and make me cry in negotiations. Um,

627
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to get a blanket for the cheers

628
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: that Dave Gelman is going to have to shed when

629
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: Leonard Williams walks in or his agent walks in through

630
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: the door or on zoom or whatever to negotiate that deal. Okay,

631
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: because um, I don't know what numbers and impact you

632
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: thought Leonard Williams could provide. Okay, there you go, there

633
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: you go. You know what I mean. If you whatever

634
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: numbers you said, he surpassed them. Um, and so but

635
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: look if if if the teams cannot cannot function if

636
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: they trade for a guy right, give up a third

637
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: and fifth round pick, and then put the franchise tag

638
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: on him for sixteen million, have him ball out and

639
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: play great, and then say we can't afford him. No,

640
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: can do You can't do that. So Lennon Williams to me,

641
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: is not a guy we'd like to sign. He's a

642
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: guy you signed. Now, if Leonard Williams says I want

643
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: more money than Aaron Donald, then he will not get it. Okay.

644
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: But other than that, he can make a case for

645
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: making as much as can He make a case for

646
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: making as much as the Forest Buckner, Chris Jones from

647
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: Kansas City, Jones, Fletcher Cox, Okay, can he make those deals?

648
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: He had a better season than all three of those guys? Okay? Now, um,

649
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: And which is with the most mind boggling number? To me, John,

650
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: of all this is is Lennon Williams's twenty six years old.

651
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: He's twenty six years old. He's been in the league

652
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: for what six years? He's twenty six? He should be

653
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: twenty eight. He's twenty six. I wish I could, you know,

654
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: just have an age that doesn't make sense, you know

655
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 1: what I mean? I'm forty, John, I'm forty. I've been

656
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: covering a team for twenty seven years and I'm only forty.

657
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: You go figure it out. You know, he's twenty six

658
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: and oh, by the way, he never misses a game,

659
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: never misses a snap. You know, he plays when you

660
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: need him to play. He never misses a game. He's

661
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: missed one game in his career. So he's not a

662
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: guy that I can make a decision on unless he

663
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: is insane with his demands. He said he will not

664
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: be he wants to be here. You have to sign him.

665
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: And that's all of us to it. Now. Dalvin Thomlinson,

666
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: um let me ask you, is this Linnville Joseph or

667
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: is it not? That it's funny? And I had Bob

668
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: Popa on our Giants Rewind podcast and that was the

669
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: first name he brought up. He goes, John, I don't

670
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: want to repeat of the Linville Joseph situation. So you know,

671
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 1: you know, the Giants let go of him because they

672
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: had younger guys in house that they thought could replace him,

673
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: and I think in the end they probably regretted that

674
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: and that he made the same point you did, Paul,

675
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: that if you have a guy that you developed that

676
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: you really like, just keep him on board. Well, you

677
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: know what the Giants thought, they guy they still had

678
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: um Um Hankins. They Hankins, that was the name. You're right,

679
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: they had Hankins on on the roster. You know what,

680
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: they didn't have the guy. Hankins was not the guy

681
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: to replace Linnville Joseph just because he was the second

682
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: round pick. He was he was a poor man's version

683
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: of Lynnville Joseph. So when when I look at this

684
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: defensive line, I don't see a natural guy to say, Okay,

685
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: if Dalvin has to go, this guy gets plug. Dude, Okay,

686
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: you can draft somebody. But now you're just starting the

687
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: cycle over again, a less expensive cycle. But it's it's

688
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: so it's easy for me to say, I don't care.

689
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: I don't care about the money. Dave Kettleman, Kevin Abrams,

690
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: you figured out they both deserve to stay. Um, they

691
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: both do deserve to stay. Uh. I don't know if

692
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: they can get Dalvin Thominson done. I mean he's gonna

693
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: be what ten million a year. Well, that's the thing too, Paul.

694
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: The cap goes down this much, or any team is

695
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: going to have money to spend. Maybe maybe maybe because

696
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: of that, you can work out a short term deal

697
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 1: with a guy like that and say, look, the market

698
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: is not good around the league for you, so we'll

699
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: do a short term deal and you know, after next year,

700
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: when we get the crowds back in the building, everything

701
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: goes up. We can redo this. I don't know, he's

702
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: a team captain, you know, you know what it is.

703
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: What I'll say about this. Look, he's not an All

704
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: Pro player, he's an excellent player. He's the first defensive

705
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: player in team history to aren't every game his first

706
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: four years. So if you want to invest in someone,

707
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: Lennon Williams never misses a game, Dalvin Tomlinson never misses

708
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: a game. Dalvin Tomlinson not a loquacious guy around the media, right,

709
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 1: not a big personality team captain. What does that say?

710
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: They didn't They didn't nominate him to be a team

711
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: contain because he's the big talker. They nominate him because

712
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: there's great respect for him. So everyone in the building,

713
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: if they don't resign Dalvin Thomlinson, all these young players

714
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: are going to have in the back of their head.

715
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: I can play my butt off for four years I

716
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: can do it the right way, never missed a game,

717
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: be a really good player, and they're not going to

718
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: take care of me. I'll go on. Now, Look, if

719
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: Dalvin Thominson signs with another team and makes a fortunate money,

720
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: players will say, okay, that's you know. If I don't

721
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: get it here, I'll get it somewhere else. That's great,

722
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: But in houses in house so um, it would do

723
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: damage in that locker room if you let that guy

724
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: go and players are thinking, we're a commodity. You do

725
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: all you can for the team and they're not going

726
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: to sign you. So I think they both have to

727
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: be priorities. Logan Ryan said at the end of the season,

728
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: the strength of our defense is our defensive line. If

729
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: you take one of those guys away, it's less the strength.

730
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: All right, let's look to the offensive side of the ball,

731
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: Paul and all three. Actually, I don't think Joe Judge

732
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: mentioned it, but John Mara and Dave Gettleman certainly did

733
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: in their postseason press conferences. This team needs to add

734
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: weapons on offense. They need playmakers. How do you think

735
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: these playmakers come? There are a few wide receivers now

736
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: in free agency that are pretty attractive. But you we

737
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: already talked about the budgeting issues and it's another supposedly

738
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: deep wide receiver class in the draft. So how do

739
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: you think the Giants go about their business here trying

740
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: to find a playmaker on offense? I think the draft? Okay,

741
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: I like drafting receivers. I don't like signing receivers. Um. Now,

742
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: a guy like Curtis Samuel, he had a big good

743
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: year for the Panthers, right, Dave Gettleman drafted him. Um,

744
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: you know he's not a upper tier guy. You know,

745
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: he's not Alan Robinson or Juju Smith Schuster. So maybe

746
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: he's a guy you bring in. Look, you can't look

747
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: at this and say we have to bring in a

748
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: number one, We have to bring in an Odell Beckham

749
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: junior type guy, because it's just hard to do. You know,

750
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: it's hard to do. There are hits and mrs in

751
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: the draft. But like you said, look college, how many

752
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: times do you put on the TV on Saturday and

753
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: you watch these games and these freaks are making great catches?

754
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: So you don't think they have to use on a

755
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: wide receiver. As your point, well, I I'm not saying that.

756
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: I don't think they have to do anything. I think

757
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: they have to get a really good impact player at

758
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: number eleven, and um, you know, I don't think it's

759
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: gonna be a defensive lineman. Um. I don't love picking

760
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: cornerbacks in that area. I think cornerbacks are just so

761
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: hit or miss up there that you know, there are

762
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: some great ones, there are some not great ones. I'm

763
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: always squeamers to that. But um, if all of a

764
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: sudden that there's a tackle, who's there? Who? They said

765
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: offensive tackle? Only cow this guy, we had them fifth

766
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: on a board. He's sitting there at eleven, you know

767
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: you can use that. You know you can use that.

768
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a question about that. But um, um,

769
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't say right now you can't use

770
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: uh the number eleven pick on a receiver. You can

771
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: get one in the second round. Sterling Shepherd was the

772
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: second round pick. Um. I just think it's a lot

773
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: of money to spend for receivers. Uh. Sometimes their divas.

774
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're guys who fit into certain systems. Uh the

775
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: Giants want to run the ball with se Kwan Barkley. Uh,

776
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: their numbers go down. They get a little crazy in

777
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: the head. Uh, so, I I don't know, you know,

778
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: Chris Goodwin, Allen Robinson, like we said, Kenny Golladay, Um,

779
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: these guys are gonna ask for the moon. Uh you know. Now, look,

780
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: the Bill's got uh Stefon Diggs, right, and he transformed

781
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: their team four by the way, a young quarterback who

782
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: was entering his third year. And and without Diggs, Josh

783
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: Allen doesn't have the great season he has. So maybe

784
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 1: the Giants look at one of these guys and say

785
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: he can do for Daniel Jones what Diggs did for

786
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: Josh Allen. And you know, if that's the case, so

787
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: be it. Alright. Well, a final question on the Giants,

788
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: and you kind of referenced it in this answer a

789
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: little bit, And I think it's a good place to go.

790
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: How do you think the organization? And I guess fans

791
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: should look at this offensive line because I think it's interesting.

792
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: I think you feel pretty good about Andrew Thomas how

793
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: he finished out the year despite that rough patch against Arizona.

794
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: I think you have to really like with Nick Gates

795
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: did at center. I think you feel great about that.

796
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: But Lemieux and Hernandez, are you sure about either guy?

797
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: You know? Kevin Zeisler has that big contract number. What's

798
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: gonna happen with him? Right? Tackled? Did Matt Parrots showing up?

799
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 1: Is Fleming a guy you want back? Is the cap

800
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: savings on Solder enough? Where do you make a move there?

801
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: Or would you rather have him back rather than take

802
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: all that dead money? So? How would you look at

803
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: this offensive line? Where are they? How much do they

804
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: still off to add? Can you just say, all right,

805
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: we like the young guys, will let them grow together,

806
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: let's rock, let's do this. How do you view where

807
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: they are with this offensive line right now? Well, I

808
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: don't think you say we got a good young offensive line,

809
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: let's rock with this. I do not. Um uh, they

810
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: weren't good enough. Now. Now, look Andrew Thomas, whether you

811
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: like him or not, he is your left tackle. I

812
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: mean that's what he is. He's the fourth picking the draft.

813
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: He got better. Um. I like everything about him except

814
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: sometimes when I see on the field, you know what

815
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: I mean? I mean, he looks perfect, long arms, great comportment. Um.

816
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: I love the line he said to us the other day.

817
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: I asked him about you know, you were you know,

818
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: your your draft class? You know he said, Well, I

819
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: I got to know those guys a little bit of

820
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: Tristan Worths and Geddrick Wills and Mickay Beckton. You know

821
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: all those guys. Uh, you can make a case that

822
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: certainly Beckton and Wills, it's not even a case. It's

823
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: probably fact had better rookie years than than Thomas Um

824
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: And so he said, you know about the pressure about

825
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: living up to those guys, he said, I run my

826
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: own race, perfect, perfect one. I run my own race.

827
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: That's the kind of guy he is. He runs his

828
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: own race. He filters out the noise, he puts his

829
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: head down and he works. So he's a giant kind

830
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: of guy. Um. You know, they need to hit on him.

831
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: He needs to be a really good player. I think

832
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: he can be. But other than that, Um, you know

833
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: Nick Nick Nick Gates. They resigned Nick Gates and you know,

834
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: admitted he had a really bad first month in his

835
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: first year ever playing center, and he was a lot

836
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: better near the end of the year. He's your center. Okay,

837
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: you don't need you know. Shawn O'Hara was not an

838
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: all time great player and all pro He was smart

839
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: and tough and and worked well with the guys around him.

840
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: They won a super Bowl with him. Okay, so uh,

841
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: Nick Gates I have no issues with. And he also

842
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: played every freaking snap a thousand thirteen snaps. That is something, right,

843
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: good guy in his first year at center. So that's

844
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: gold if a guy can play every snap. You know,

845
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: another thing, John, this offensive line was not hurt. You know,

846
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: this was an I mean, they got lucky this offensive line.

847
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: They had almost no injuries. The only thing the head

848
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: was Hernandez with the COVID. Right, that's pretty much it. Yeah,

849
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: it's not an injury, right, it was it was the

850
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: you know, God willing there'll be no pandemic in the

851
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: years to come. We don't have to worry about that.

852
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I think Giants fans have a real

853
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: right to be really scratching her head about Will Hernandez.

854
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: He played every snap before he had COVID. He missed

855
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: two games and then he was you know, barely seen

856
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: from again. He rotated in ten fifteen snaps the last

857
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: game he was didn't play. Um, you know, and that's

858
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: that that's a hit for the organization because he was

859
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: a second round pick. Um. You know, they took sa

860
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: Koon Barkley number one in two thousand and eighteen, and

861
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: then Will Hernandez, a guy who everyone wanted them to

862
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: take number two and two thousand eighteen, and this coaching staff, look,

863
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm not buying this hole. Well, we want to rotate. No, no,

864
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: I understand you want to rotate guys in, and you

865
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: want to see Shane lem you play. But if Rollranandez

866
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: is playing like you're starting left guard should play, then

867
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: he plays okay? And and look what happened down the stretch.

868
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 1: There was no rotation. You know, Matt Part wasn't moving

869
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: in for a few plays for Cam Fleming. Cam Fleming

870
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: was playing every snap, So they need a right tackle.

871
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: I don't think you go into next year Cam Fleming

872
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: is a free agent. Um, you don't go into next

873
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: year saying Matt Parts are all right tackle. I have

874
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: no idea what's happening with Nate Solder. I don't know

875
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: if Nate Solder has any idea. What's happening with Nate Solder? Um,

876
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: this is unprecedented, This is you know, nobody's seen this before.

877
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: Does he want to play again? It's a big boatload

878
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: of money. He would be turning away if he retires.

879
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: You know this pandemic has to be cured. He you know,

880
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: he got willing, he's got you know, he's got a

881
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: kid who's battling cancer. All prayers to him, right, he's

882
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: a great guy needs solder. We don't know if he

883
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: wants to come back until there's vaccines everywhere, if he's

884
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: gonna come back and play right tackle. Um. If the

885
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: Giants cut him, there's a cap hit so um um.

886
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: You know there's dead money involved. That that's a big unknown.

887
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: And I don't think the Giants know anything about what's

888
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: going to happen there. It's almost um not um cool

889
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: to even talk about it now until we see how

890
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: things shake down in the world. But um, they this

891
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: offensive line needs work. I don't think there's any question.

892
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: There's probably two starters they need that aren't on the

893
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: roster right now. Alright, final question, Paul, we should look

894
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: ahead for a second before we say goodbye. What are

895
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: the expectations now? For one? And I know it's hard

896
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: to make a blanket statement, but I get asked this

897
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: all the time on Big Blue Kick Off, So I'm

898
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: gonna ask it to you and my answer is, Look,

899
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: you want six and ten this year? You took another step.

900
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: To me, next year, you want to legitimately compete for

901
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: a division title. And but when I say legitimately is

902
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: not get to seven wins because the division leader has eight.

903
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: You want to try to get to nine or ten

904
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: wins next year. Have the quarterback take a step and

905
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: if that happens, that means to me, this thing's really

906
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: going in the right direction. Yeah. I look, I'd love

907
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: to know. I'd love to answer this question after the

908
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 1: draft and after free agency. But look, we're assuming they're

909
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 1: gonna draft players, and we're assuming they're going to sign

910
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: play well. I hope so yes, and some will will

911
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: some will will think by that's a great pick, and

912
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: some will be questioning the pick, you know, and then

913
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: we have to see how it all, um, you know

914
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: plays out. We know they have a head coach. Right

915
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: at this time last year they hired Joe Judge. We

916
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: did not know what he was going to be as

917
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: the head coach. We know he has a would they

918
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: have a head coach and they we know he has

919
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: a working staff that that works well together. So I

920
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: don't have what you said, I can't argue with or

921
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: really add much to it. All Um, they said it right,

922
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: Dave Gentleman comes back. They showed improvement. They were six

923
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: and ten. It's not a great record, we agree. You know,

924
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: that they were in the playoff race was an aberration,

925
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: complete aberration. And let's not forget when they were in

926
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: the playoff race and when they went to Seattle with

927
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: their best victory of the season, the Giants were in

928
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: control of their playoff destiny in the division and then

929
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: they lost three games, um in bad forms. So yes,

930
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: they won the game against the Cowboys, but when they

931
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: he was really on this team, it wilt it, it

932
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: wilt it in those three games, right badly. So that's disturbing. Uh.

933
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: Having said that six has to become eight or nine

934
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: or ten, that's all ours to it. That's all ours

935
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: to it. And if you know, staycom Barkley has got

936
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: to come back and be healthy. Daniel Jones, he can't

937
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: be growing. You know, he has to throw eleven touchdown

938
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: passes in a month, right, not in a season, in

939
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: a month. I mean, I'm not kidding, right, you know,

940
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: look at look around the league. There's there were more

941
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: points scored this year in the league than any other year.

942
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: And the Giants were like, that's like a fundraiser and

943
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,959
Speaker 1: you say, we we raised a record fifty million this year,

944
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: and oh, by the way, I contributed thirty six bucks.

945
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: You know, you were part of it, but you were

946
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: a very small part of it. The Giants were a

947
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: very small part of the scoring spree in the league

948
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: this year. So the points gotta go up, the winds

949
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: gotta go up. Um. You know, I don't think the

950
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: league the division is world beaters. I really don't. You know,

951
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if Washington has a quarterback. Um, I

952
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: have no idea who the Eagles quarterback is other than

953
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: it's not Nate Sudfeld. Okay that I'm pretty stat I'm

954
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: pretty sure about. And if Dak Prescott comes back and

955
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: it's healthy, than the Cowboys have a quarterback. But you know,

956
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: we'll see about them. There's always something with the Cowboys.

957
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not like the Giants are playing

958
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: in one of these divisions and you say, oh, you know,

959
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: the the the NFC US or something where there's just

960
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of good teams. Um. So yeah, the Giants

961
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: have to contend. They have to, they have to flirt

962
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: with ten wins. They have to be a good team

963
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: next year. Whatever. The definition of a good team is.

964
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: They have not been that in many years. They have

965
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: to be a good team and if they're not, it's

966
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: gonna be a problem. Paul, I know you're doing a

967
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: new podcast in the New York Post. You guys have

968
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: a lot of big New York Post kind of podcast.

969
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: Now we're going on. I want to tell the folks

970
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: where they can find it. Oh, thank you, John. The

971
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: Blue Rush Podcast. Yes, it is um as they say

972
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: in the biz, it is wherever you get your podcasts,

973
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: Spotify or Apple. Uh, it's called Blue Rush Podcast with some.

974
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: I am a co host with some like I'm not

975
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: a big I'm not a big believer in these podcasts

976
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: where one guy just sits there and just blah blah

977
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. You know, no good unless you

978
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: are the most gifted order in the world. No good.

979
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: So um, nobody. People only want to hear one of

980
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: my blaws, not the blah blah blaws part of it.

981
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: So Lawrence Time's who Giants fans know and admire and

982
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: love for his kicking the giants the two Super Bowls.

983
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: Uh is the co host. He's great. Follow him on Twitter.

984
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: I think lt four Kicks. I think it is. Uh,

985
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: he's a great Twitter follow He's passionate giants, true booble,

986
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: true blue believer, but he's also cutting. Um. He always

987
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: has interesting things to say. So you know, I think

988
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: it's a great synergy between us. This guy, Jake Brown,

989
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: Sarah mccruory do a great job of producing it. And um,

990
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: we had good guests. I'll give you a scoop. Are

991
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: are one that's just dropping Thursday. We had Darius Slayton

992
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: to end the year, who had interesting things to say

993
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: about the offense, about himself, about the election in Georgia,

994
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: and about social justice. I'm not kidding. He's a smart

995
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: guy and he has some interesting things to say about

996
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: our society. Um, we had good guests all year. And

997
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: like I said, Lawrence Times his great perspective. Even though

998
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: he's a kicker, I get it. He wasn't a player.

999
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: He was only a kicker. That's what I say to

1000
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: him and he I think I'm an idiot, but that's okay.

1001
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: But we have a a chemistry together. And Uh, it's

1002
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: a good podcast. He has a Blue Rush podcast. I

1003
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: have to deal with Jeff Fagles in that regard to

1004
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: Paul I understand. It's hard. You know, these these kickers

1005
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,959
Speaker 1: are real problem childs. I understand, I get it. Yeah,

1006
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: but you know what their problem childs with, um um,

1007
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: some nice shiny rings on their fingers, so that that

1008
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,919
Speaker 1: that tends to give you some credibility in the world. Right, Absolutely, Paul,

1009
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: great stuff all you longer than I thought, but it

1010
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: was a great conversation. Only a great way to wrap

1011
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: up the season. I'm not gonna seen you at the

1012
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl, I doubt I'm We're probably not going to

1013
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: see each other at the Combine, So we'll see each

1014
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: other on Zoom whenever that happens. To be my friend,

1015
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon, all right, John, take care.

1016
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: That's Paul Schwartz of the New York Post the Blue

1017
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: Rush podcast to be thank him for joining us on

1018
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: the Giants Huddle podcast, which is part of the Giants

1019
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: Podcast Now. We're presented by Investors Bank. You can find

1020
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: the archive on giants dot com, the John's Bull blap Ah,

1021
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks you for being with us

1022
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: for Paul, I'm schmilk. Have a great weekend. We'll see

1023
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: you next time.