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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: After Donald Trump's election victory and the US, traders are

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Speaker 2: betting on good times for cryptocurrencies. With bitcoin breaking the

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Speaker 2: ninety thousand dollars barrier.

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Speaker 3: The market value of bitcoin is now the eighth most

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Speaker 3: valuable asset in the world, and it surpassed the total

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Speaker 3: world's value of silver at one point seven six trillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible as even those in the crypto community watch

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Speaker 1: what was happening.

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Speaker 4: This week with AWE because it was such a stunning rise.

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Speaker 2: With the currencies growing increasingly popular among younger people. Are

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Speaker 2: African governments, wary of unregulated markets able to stand this

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Speaker 2: latest onslaught.

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Speaker 1: The crypto space, the fintech space is a new deal,

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Speaker 1: and being a new deal last regulators, we're always very cattious.

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Speaker 1: We need to understand it properly, We need to review

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Speaker 1: it properly. We need to also be able to deal

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Speaker 1: with the risk associated with that. One of the aims

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Speaker 1: of the SEC's investor protection, and of course the other

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Speaker 1: one is market development. And in the space of that

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Speaker 1: twin aim we must do what we need to do

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Speaker 1: to protect Nigeria's and to encourage Nigerians as the case

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Speaker 1: may be.

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Speaker 2: On this episode of the Next Africa Podcast, we'll look

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Speaker 2: at how young people in Nigeria and Kenya are still

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Speaker 2: using crypto despite attempts to ban it and what governments might,

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Speaker 2: if anything, be able to do about it. I'm Jennifer

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Speaker 2: Zabasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you

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Speaker 2: one story each week from the continent, driving the future

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Speaker 2: of global growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide.

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Speaker 2: And joining us this week is Bloomberg's Bella Genga in

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Speaker 2: Nairobi and also amel Onu who is in Legos. Thank

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Speaker 2: you both for being here. A really fascinating topic that

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are plugged into right now,

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Speaker 2: especially considering the price action. Maybe let's just start with

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Speaker 2: the popularity of cryptocurrencies like bitcoin on the continent right now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how would you assess how popular it is

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Speaker 2: and really who the people are that are using it? Bella,

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Speaker 2: maybe you start.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty popular. Young people especially are using it because

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Speaker 4: they are tech savvy and it's efficient. They just go

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Speaker 4: and participate it on the platform's online. They don't have

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Speaker 4: to get out of the house of the room and

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Speaker 4: go and find it and they are trading and making money,

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Speaker 4: which without leaving the house. So that's why it's very

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Speaker 4: popular among young people.

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Speaker 2: Tenure Emeli, how about you from from West Africa? What

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Speaker 2: what's your perspective?

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Speaker 5: Crypto is very popular among young Nigerians. It's mainly young

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Speaker 5: Nigelians that are patronized in it, mainly those that are

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Speaker 5: looking for smart ways of transacting business and good returns

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Speaker 5: and a still protect the investments. So thats where we

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Speaker 5: normally see the drive coming from.

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Speaker 4: I spoke to two guys and they've been in the

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Speaker 4: crypto game since like twenty twenty and so they are

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Speaker 4: enjoying the benefits or they're enjoying the escalation of crypto

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Speaker 4: because they can change and they can trade. Basically, these

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Speaker 4: guys are making a lot of money. These young people

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Speaker 4: are making a lot of money. They don't have to

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Speaker 4: go to banks because in Kenya the Central Bank issould

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Speaker 4: as circular telling banks we don't want to hear you

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Speaker 4: guys are doing anything concerning crypto. So all of it

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Speaker 4: is peer to peer at this point, So that's.

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Speaker 2: One use case. I mean people are making money also

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Speaker 2: transferring money peer to peer. MLA, are you seeing similar

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Speaker 2: patterns and what sort of tokens are people using.

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Speaker 5: It is mainly bitcoin, Yeah, every other one is like

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Speaker 5: an exception. They're not popular and emla.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what is the attraction from the perspective of

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Speaker 2: the people that you've spoken to. Is it about making money?

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Speaker 2: Is it about speculation? Is it a game? Is it

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Speaker 2: to evade sort of their own woes that the local

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Speaker 2: currencies are experiencing. I mean, what do you.

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Speaker 5: Think, Ageria, those actually going for a bit or tripito currency,

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Speaker 5: their fraction is mainly as a start of value, that

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Speaker 5: is merely to preserve their wealth. So I bet that

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Speaker 5: is the elemental speculation because they are doing need to

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Speaker 5: have kind of sharp appreciation and their assets within a

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Speaker 5: very short time, but they maintain is that lots of

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Speaker 5: confidence on the naira, lots of confidence of the local

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Speaker 5: currency is making people go to it, especially the young people.

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Speaker 5: They want to try new things.

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Speaker 4: Bella.

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Speaker 2: A few months ago we had you on the podcast

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Speaker 2: and you were talking about a lot of the movement

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Speaker 2: that we were seeing in Kenya in response to cost

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Speaker 2: of living and how a lot of it was young

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Speaker 2: people and how they were communityting online. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: wonder if we're seeing some of that same chatter happening

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Speaker 2: right now, especially as we see the prices of these

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Speaker 2: cryptocurrencies I mean continuing to escalate. I mean, are you

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Speaker 2: hearing them talking potentially about this being an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: store value like a MELI was saying.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's definitely an opportunity. I mean, look, if you

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Speaker 4: look at it, bitcoin is up above ninety three thousand,

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Speaker 4: so you can imagine the people who are already participating

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Speaker 4: in that space in twenty twenty. And if you look

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Speaker 4: at the employment rate and employment rate in Kenya, it's

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Speaker 4: pretty high. The Tenet government is under pressure to increase

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Speaker 4: revenue collection in the form of taxes, and so the

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Speaker 4: price living expenses have gone up. And when you consider

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Speaker 4: people who don't have jobs, people these young people who

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Speaker 4: get a lot of income online, this is a space

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Speaker 4: that they're particularly very keen on and are playing at.

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Speaker 4: The people who are basically smiling and laughing all the

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Speaker 4: way to the bank are people who started playing before.

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Speaker 4: Actually two thousand and I met one of the one

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Speaker 4: of the participants or one of the investors in this

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Speaker 4: space got in very very early. I mean, you're building

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Speaker 4: a house.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, Bella MLA stick with us when we come back.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about how regulators are reacting to

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Speaker 2: this increased use and if there's anything they can really

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Speaker 2: do to stem the increasing use and the tide that

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Speaker 2: we're seeing with crypto. Welcome back today on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at the impact of the booming cryptocurrency markets,

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Speaker 2: especially since the US election, and we're seeing the prices

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Speaker 2: of not just bitcoin but other cryptos rising, lifting all tides.

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Speaker 2: As we could say a la, Nigeria has had a

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Speaker 2: pretty fractured relationship with crypto. I think it's safe to say,

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Speaker 2: can you can you give us some history about where

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Speaker 2: the country has been and where it's at now.

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Speaker 5: Twenty twenty, young Nigerians used bitcoin to fund a major

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Speaker 5: protest against police rutality. So central bank was unable to

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Speaker 5: track those flues and it was a major concern to

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Speaker 5: the authorities. So in twenty twenty one, CENTA bank or

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Speaker 5: that banks to close all accounts operating crypto. They said

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Speaker 5: it was a threads to the stability or the financial system.

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Speaker 5: Then the next year what we saw was et cetera

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Speaker 5: Bank non fined four banks for failing to comply with

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Speaker 5: the order to bank crypto assets. Notwithstanding that the analysis

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Speaker 5: we got indicated that more Nigerians we were piling up

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Speaker 5: into crypto. The Central Bank d year blocked assets to

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Speaker 5: crypto a change that is binance, making it very difficult

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Speaker 5: or impossible for subscribers or cretain users to continue to

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Speaker 5: reutonize that platform. And they also sued them for manipulating

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Speaker 5: the national currency. The Nigerians Securities and the Change Commission,

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Speaker 5: which is the regulator for the capital market, has always

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Speaker 5: seen the crypto asset as a security that should be

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Speaker 5: regulated and SEX believes that if it is regulated, it

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Speaker 5: will make the participants and the market not to be

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Speaker 5: sabottaging the economy, which actually has been the fears of

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Speaker 5: the central bank. Sec also felt that there are a

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Speaker 5: lot of young people in it, so if you don't

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Speaker 5: regulate it, what it means is that a lot of

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Speaker 5: them could be taken advantage of. So eventually, what we

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Speaker 5: say is that there is not an agreement to regulate

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Speaker 5: the market. And this year the license to crypto exchanges.

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Speaker 5: They want to get good understanding of how they pread

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Speaker 5: and if they're satisfied with what they then they will

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Speaker 5: grant them a permanent license.

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Speaker 2: WOW and that would be huge, of course for the industry,

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Speaker 2: and it's not as you just described there in La,

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Speaker 2: it's not been smooth sailing. Of course, we've seen a

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Speaker 2: lot of disruption as you were just mentioning there. But

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Speaker 2: also earlier this year we talked a lot about the

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Speaker 2: situation with the Binance executive and how that played out. Bella,

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Speaker 2: let's bring you in. Can you talk to us from

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Speaker 2: the Kenyan perspective, because it's also not really been smooth

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Speaker 2: sailing for crypto in East Africa either.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. I remember in twenty fifteen, the Kinon Central Bank

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Speaker 4: issued US cycula actually basically declared during a press briefing

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Speaker 4: that look, one of the entities that were making it

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Speaker 4: available was basically a crypto exchange. It was fatilitating crypto

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Speaker 4: trading and all that. It declared that this company has

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Speaker 4: no license and therefore they do not have they cannot

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Speaker 4: do any business in this country. And then that who's

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Speaker 4: followed up by a circular to all commercial banks asking

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Speaker 4: them not to do any kind of business with anything

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Speaker 4: sounds like, smells like, looks like crypto. And what has

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Speaker 4: happened is today if the crypto enthusiasts are still using

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Speaker 4: the banks the founder way of using the banks. But

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Speaker 4: if a bank realizes or finds out that a particular

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Speaker 4: entity or company is trading or dealing with crypto, they

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Speaker 4: shut down the bank account. We've had some of the

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Speaker 4: exchanges getting shut down because they're not getting licenses and

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Speaker 4: there's no regulation in this space for crypto. They have

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Speaker 4: been forced to find a way around it, and one

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Speaker 4: of the ways is to open different bank accounts with

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Speaker 4: different banks, and that's how they're able to survive or

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Speaker 4: you know, continue to earn from this trade. The other

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Speaker 4: thing is any regulator who finds out that you are

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Speaker 4: participating or have any business to do with crypto, they

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Speaker 4: will shut down as well. There's still no regulation on

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Speaker 4: crypto currency. It's not allowed, it hasn't been banned, so

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Speaker 4: that its people who are participating in crypto or dealing

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Speaker 4: with crypto are playing in a great space. So the

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Speaker 4: absence of regulation, it's not hampering people, and people are

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Speaker 4: still able to deal and participate in that place in

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Speaker 4: that space.

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Speaker 2: Basically, before we wrap up, maybe MLA, can you take

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Speaker 2: us through what you're watching for next. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: that's up in the air, including the price of some

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Speaker 2: of these cryptocurrencies. But what should we be watching for next?

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Speaker 5: What everybody is watching for, including those that are into

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Speaker 5: a crypto and those that are not tayfun into a crypto.

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Speaker 5: What everybody is watching up for is the type of

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Speaker 5: regulation that you'll be placed from next year when SEC

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Speaker 5: will give permanent licenses to need to operate US. If

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Speaker 5: it is satisfied with however Writting is operated, then those

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Speaker 5: two operators ill be giving permanent licenses next year and

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Speaker 5: be given a guideline how to operate. That is the

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Speaker 5: next thing everybody is looking at for web SEC deny

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Speaker 5: those two people the permanent licenses or will it make

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Speaker 5: the conditions stiffer for them to operate?

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Speaker 4: For as long as the authorities do not have visibility,

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Speaker 4: they cannot measure, they cannot manage these spaces. So we'll

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Speaker 4: see how the government or whatever kind of regulations that

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Speaker 4: the states will try to come up with on this

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Speaker 4: space will play out. Because for as long as they

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Speaker 4: don't have visibility, how do they proceed? You will not

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Speaker 4: see any crypto enthusias coming to volunteer right still waiting

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Speaker 4: to see that happening.

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Speaker 2: Here, And you can of course read our full coverage

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Speaker 2: of Crypto across Bloomberg platforms. Here's a few other stories

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Speaker 2: we're watching in the region.

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Speaker 4: This week.

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Speaker 2: Resolute Mining shares were temporarily suspended as Molly demanded the

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Speaker 2: Australian gold miner pay about one hundred and sixty million

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Speaker 2: dollars to resolve a tax dispute that seen its chief

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Speaker 2: executive officer detained. Terry Holahan and two colleagues have been

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Speaker 2: held in the capital of Bamaco since late last week

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Speaker 2: after the Resolute boss traveled to the city for meetings

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Speaker 2: with the nation's tax and mining authorities. The detention comes

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Speaker 2: as the military rulers of Africa's third largest gold producer

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Speaker 2: ratchet up pressure on mining companies to renegotiate contract terms,

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Speaker 2: and South Africa started allowing some movement at its main

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Speaker 2: border with Mozambique on Thursday morning after protests prompted a

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Speaker 2: suspension the day before. Mozambique has been racked by the

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Speaker 2: worst election unrest since the end of its sixteen year

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Speaker 2: civil war in nineteen ninety two, after opposition leader Venancio

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Speaker 2: Mondlane claimed victory in an October ninth election that official

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Speaker 2: results showed the ruling party one by a landslide, and

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Speaker 2: you can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including the Next

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Speaker 2: African Newsletter. We'll put a link to that in the

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Speaker 2: show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't

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Speaker 2: forget to follow and review the show wherever you usually

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga. Thanks as always for listening.