WEBVTT - From the Vault: Heavy Water

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In today's Vault

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<v Speaker 1>episode originally aired on December, it was about heavy water.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, because it's it's New Year's Day. Happy New

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<v Speaker 1>Year's Joe. And when you think new Happy New Year's

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<v Speaker 1>you think heavy water. So of course this just lines

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<v Speaker 1>up perfectly. Drink up. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind,

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<v Speaker 1>production of my Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to

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<v Speaker 1>Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Joe McCormick. And today I wanted to start off by

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<v Speaker 1>talking about something that may have come up in the

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<v Speaker 1>past on the show of CORP. I don't quite remember,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't think we've ever gone into great detail

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<v Speaker 1>on it. So there is this popular chemistry prank that

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<v Speaker 1>that goes some thing like this. You you approach somebody

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<v Speaker 1>with a petition or a public service announcement. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>if I could do the Donald pleasants like Spirit of

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<v Speaker 1>Dark and Lonely Water Voice, I would do this. But

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<v Speaker 1>just imagine it. Can you imagine I'm I'm Donald Coleasant

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<v Speaker 1>saying this to you. What if I told you there

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<v Speaker 1>was a household chemical present in more than ercent of

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<v Speaker 1>homes in America, which is used as an an ingredient

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<v Speaker 1>in everything from packaged foods, to cleaning products to children's medicine.

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<v Speaker 1>And yet this chemical has been proven to cause severe

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<v Speaker 1>burns to the skin and mouth, can be lethal if

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<v Speaker 1>it's inhaled, and is the primary constituent in acid rain.

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<v Speaker 1>According to historical sources, this was the main ingredient in

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<v Speaker 1>the poison that Socrates drank to commit suicide after his

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<v Speaker 1>trial and Athens. It's so corrosive that it can eat

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<v Speaker 1>holes in solid iron, and yet we expose our bodies

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<v Speaker 1>to this chemical every time we have a cup of

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<v Speaker 1>tea or take a shower. Studies have found that trace

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<v Speaker 1>him of this compound linger in our decomposing bodies, even

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<v Speaker 1>for months after we die. It is so addictive that

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<v Speaker 1>the average human cannot at this point survive more than

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<v Speaker 1>a few days without receiving a dose. This chemical is

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<v Speaker 1>called die hydrogen monoxide, and it has already been found

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<v Speaker 1>in nearly every natural environment on Earth, and if we

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<v Speaker 1>don't ban it soon, there will not be a single

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<v Speaker 1>patch of the planet left uncontaminated. Now there are million

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<v Speaker 1>versions of this, but a lot of them will ask

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<v Speaker 1>people to kind of sign on and be like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've got to get this thing out of

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<v Speaker 1>our out of our homes and all that. Yeah, because

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<v Speaker 1>it's clearly we're talking about something that's a threat to

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<v Speaker 1>the children, uh, to America, to life as we know it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's it's funny because when I think about this prank,

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<v Speaker 1>so obviously the joke is that what it's talking about

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<v Speaker 1>is water. And so it's a joke that works on

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<v Speaker 1>several levels. For one, it's an example of how even

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<v Speaker 1>technically true statements can be extremely misleading without being put

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<v Speaker 1>in the proper context. Uh. And I think it's also

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<v Speaker 1>just used to sometimes suggest that people should get like

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<v Speaker 1>better education and chemistry and the natural sciences, which sure,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, fair enough, I I also wish I was

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<v Speaker 1>better educated in chemistry. But I think it's on the

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<v Speaker 1>other side it it does take advantage of something that

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<v Speaker 1>is a totally justified anxiety that people have about chemistry

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<v Speaker 1>in the natural world and especially the modern world, because

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<v Speaker 1>when we make decisions about deadly risks about physical cause

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<v Speaker 1>and effect, you know, our intuitions and our knowledge about

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<v Speaker 1>how things work are are strongly biased towards perceiving physical

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<v Speaker 1>threats within what you might call like the Newtonian physical domain,

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<v Speaker 1>like threats from big moving objects somewhere between the size

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<v Speaker 1>of a pebble and a landslide. But especially since the

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<v Speaker 1>Industrial Revolution, the world is also full of chemical threats

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<v Speaker 1>that are really somewhat invisible in this respect, like they

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<v Speaker 1>don't really show up on the Newtonian physical domain. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we've got some natural defenses against chemical threats like this.

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<v Speaker 1>We've got our senses of taste and smell, and we

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<v Speaker 1>have some aversion reactions in like our digestive system or

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<v Speaker 1>respiration system, like sometimes you detect a noxious chemical and

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<v Speaker 1>you bar for you start coughing or something. Are our

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<v Speaker 1>bodies can can help detect and reject things. But we

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<v Speaker 1>all know by this point that there are in fact

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<v Speaker 1>extremely dangerous chemicals that are essentially undetectable to our senses,

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<v Speaker 1>either because they have no strong smell or taste, or

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<v Speaker 1>the relevant doses are so tiny that we wouldn't notice

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<v Speaker 1>them before it's too late, or because maybe they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have an effect until they've had until you've had extreme

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<v Speaker 1>repeated exposure or consumed lots of chemicals. We're gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>talking about one of the latter today, and so this

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<v Speaker 1>is the kind of compound that we're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>getting into, a chemical that has proven fascinating and very

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<v Speaker 1>useful but also strangely dangerous depending on the context, a

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<v Speaker 1>sort of Dopple gang or of water, the wetness of

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<v Speaker 1>the shadow realm. Today, I wanted to talk about heavy water,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is heavy, literally heavy, But I want to

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<v Speaker 1>want to say this is not to be confused with

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<v Speaker 1>hard water. Uh So, if you're out there, listen, We're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about heavy water, not hard water. Hard water is

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<v Speaker 1>just water with a high mineral content. Oh is that

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<v Speaker 1>what it is? I think I literally didn't know that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the one that, like you know, that can

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<v Speaker 1>can mess with how your soap SuDS up, that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. Okay, uh though some people like it because

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<v Speaker 1>it makes their hair look good, right or at least? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. It's one of those things. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>have a lot of experience with it, or maybe really

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<v Speaker 1>even knowledge of of hard water. So when you brought

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<v Speaker 1>up this topic, I initially thought you were talking about

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<v Speaker 1>doing uh an episode or episodes about hard water, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's not hard water again, heavy water. The washers in

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<v Speaker 1>your shower will really rust after this episode. Alright, So

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<v Speaker 1>for the rest of the episode, we're gonna discuss a

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<v Speaker 1>few things that that we found interesting about heavy water,

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<v Speaker 1>its role in the natural world and history, and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>the question of whether you should drink it. Um So.

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<v Speaker 1>At the molecular level, as we all know, regular water

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<v Speaker 1>is made of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom.

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<v Speaker 1>It's H two O, and this trifled structure makes for

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<v Speaker 1>a really amazing and powerful polar molecule that acts as

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<v Speaker 1>kind of master solvent that makes life itself possible. Every

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<v Speaker 1>cell in your body depends on the particular chemical properties

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<v Speaker 1>of this molecule. Without H two oh, nothing in the

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<v Speaker 1>organic world works. Now. Heavy water is an alternative form

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<v Speaker 1>of the same molecule, which relies on a different isotope

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<v Speaker 1>of the hydrogen atom, known as deuterium. A normal hydrogen

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<v Speaker 1>atom also known as protium just to distinguish it from deuterium,

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<v Speaker 1>is composed of two sub atomic particles. So it's got

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<v Speaker 1>a nucleus that is just one single proton and nothing

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<v Speaker 1>else that has a positive charge, and then orbiting that

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<v Speaker 1>it's got one single the electron, which has a negative charge.

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<v Speaker 1>Deuterium adds a third element to the mix. It adds

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<v Speaker 1>a single neutron to the nucleus of the hydrogen atom.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh Now again, this makes it an isotope of hydrogen,

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<v Speaker 1>and isotope is a is a version of an atom

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<v Speaker 1>that has a different than usual number of neutrons in

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<v Speaker 1>the nucleus, and a new neutron doesn't have a charge,

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<v Speaker 1>but it does have mass. So an atom of deuterium

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<v Speaker 1>is almost twice as heavy as an atom of ordinary hydrogen.

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<v Speaker 1>Deuterium is a stable isotope, and it is found in nature.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not something that's just a product of the Industrial

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<v Speaker 1>Revolution or of nuclear reactors or something like that. It's

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<v Speaker 1>found all throughout water in the Solar System, it's found

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<v Speaker 1>all throughout Earth's oceans. Roughly one out of every sixty

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<v Speaker 1>hydrogen atoms in the ocean is actually deuterium. So if

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<v Speaker 1>deuterium occurs in nature, you might wonder, well, where does

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<v Speaker 1>it come from? With most other elements, you can trace

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<v Speaker 1>their origin to some form of nucleosynthesis within stars or

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<v Speaker 1>during high energy events like supernova. However, almost all of

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<v Speaker 1>the deuterium found in nature is a leftover product of

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<v Speaker 1>the Big Bang. These atomic nuclei are not generated by stars,

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<v Speaker 1>or when they are, they're usually destroyed soon after they're created.

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<v Speaker 1>They've been the way they are for thirteen point eight

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<v Speaker 1>billion years, and on Earth, one major place to find

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<v Speaker 1>hydrogen is bound up in water molecules. Uh So, in

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<v Speaker 1>most ways, deuterium behaves chemically the same as ordinary hydrogen.

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<v Speaker 1>So deterium gets locked up into water molecules, uh and

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<v Speaker 1>it just floats around there in the ocean. The technical

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<v Speaker 1>name for a water molecule with deuterium in place of

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<v Speaker 1>hydrogen is deuterium oxide or D two oh. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you ever seen D two oh written out, that means

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<v Speaker 1>heavy water water molecule with deuterium instead of regular hydrogen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's also sometimes called deuterated water, but more commonly it's

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<v Speaker 1>just known as heavy water. Now, as I've said, in

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<v Speaker 1>many ways, deuterium behaves just like protium hydrogen, and so

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<v Speaker 1>in many ways heavy water blends in with and behaves

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<v Speaker 1>like regular water. But not in every way. And a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of what we're gonna be doing in this episodes

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<v Speaker 1>is exploring some of the fascinating and historically relevant and

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<v Speaker 1>weird differences between regular water and heavy water. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>So one good place to start here and that the

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<v Speaker 1>history of the discovery of heavy water is to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to that's when chemists Author Lamb and Richard Lean

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<v Speaker 1>of New York University tried to define the density of

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<v Speaker 1>pure water and they kept getting varying results, which ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>paved the road for the discovery of isotopes that's variant.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are variants of particular chemical elements due to differences

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<v Speaker 1>in neutrons. And then also the discovery of heavy water itself.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is key because because again heavy water isn't

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<v Speaker 1>something that's you know, entirely man made or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's in water. It just constitutes one part in four thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>five hundred. Yes, that that's correct. Now about that number.

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<v Speaker 1>I was wondering about the ratios here because I saw

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<v Speaker 1>I've seen that that ratio one hundred, and I've also

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<v Speaker 1>seen the ratio of one out of every sixty four

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<v Speaker 1>hundred um like. For example, of the one important publication

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<v Speaker 1>on the evidence for the existence of heavy hydrogen back

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<v Speaker 1>in one which was published in the journal Physical Review,

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<v Speaker 1>was a letter by the American chemist Harold c. Uri

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<v Speaker 1>which pegged deuterium as one out of every hydrogen atoms,

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<v Speaker 1>but I've also seen it published elsewhere that it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>now thought that at least one out of every sixty

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<v Speaker 1>four hundred or I think more more like sixty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>or sixty four fifty water molecules in Earth's ocean are

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<v Speaker 1>heavy water. Um. So, I don't know if those numbers

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<v Speaker 1>represents some kind of conflict, or if one represents a

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<v Speaker 1>genuine difference in what you'd find in the water molecules

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<v Speaker 1>in the ocean versus what you'd find just in hydrogen

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<v Speaker 1>more broadly. I'm not quite sure about that. But the

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<v Speaker 1>point either way is that uh is that deuterium is

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<v Speaker 1>found in nature, but only in a in a very

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<v Speaker 1>small proportion of hydrogen, and thus heavy water is found

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<v Speaker 1>in nature, but only in a very small proportion. It's

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<v Speaker 1>one out of thousands of molecules. Yeah, so it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like if we had like a cash only society

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<v Speaker 1>and you had some heavy nickels floating, they're right where

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<v Speaker 1>the nickel itself like, it's it's not it's not worth more,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not it's still just worth five cents, And factors

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<v Speaker 1>into the figuring that way. But you can imagine scenarios

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<v Speaker 1>where extra heavy nickels in enough. Uh you know, if

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<v Speaker 1>there are enough of them within a larger amount of nickels,

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<v Speaker 1>that could have an impact on things, etcetera. Or if

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<v Speaker 1>you get into a situation sort of. This will discuss

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<v Speaker 1>where people are like, oh man, these heavy nickels are great,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got to get more of them. Can I like

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<v Speaker 1>syst them out of the existing uh cash population of

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<v Speaker 1>the existing world nickels. Can I make normal nickels into

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<v Speaker 1>heavy nickels, etcetera. That's very good, Yeah, and you could.

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<v Speaker 1>I can imagine you'd run into unfore seen problems if

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<v Speaker 1>you suddenly decided you wanted to base your entire economy

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<v Speaker 1>on heavy nickels, or I don't know, maybe a third

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<v Speaker 1>of your economy. Uh. That'll tie into something we get

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<v Speaker 1>into in a minute. So I mentioned him just a

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<v Speaker 1>minute ago, that the American chemist Harold c Ury. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope I'm saying his name right, you are e y Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a very important figure in the discovery of deuterium.

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<v Speaker 1>He usually gets credit along with his collaborators for proving

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<v Speaker 1>the existence of deuterium through spectroscopic experiments in nineteen thirty one,

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<v Speaker 1>and he received the Nobel Prize for his discovery in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty four. But I thought it would be useful

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<v Speaker 1>to just look at a couple of the physical properties

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<v Speaker 1>of heavy water. So one of the key differences between

0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 1>heavy water and ordinary water is that heavy water is

0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.239
<v Speaker 1>literally heavier because of the extra neutrons in the deuterium.

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.319
<v Speaker 1>You remember, a deuterium atom is almost twice as heavy

0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 1>as a regular hydrogen atom. Because of that, D two

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.200
<v Speaker 1>oh is about ten heavier than an equal quantity of

0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.600
<v Speaker 1>regular water. And you might wonder, a wait a minute,

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>wy only ten percent heavier rather than double the weight.

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 1>We'll remember oxygen with eight protons and eight neutrons, makes

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 1>up the bulk of the mass of a normal water molecule.

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 1>It's got oxygen and then the lighter hydrogen atom. So

0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.200
<v Speaker 1>you're only increasing the weight of UH two of the

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 1>three atoms and the two smaller ones in the water molecule.

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.280
<v Speaker 1>So so it's ten percent heavier. And this results in

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 1>some very interesting party trick potential. For example, regular ice

0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.720
<v Speaker 1>always floats in water, but with deuterium, if you make

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 1>a heavy water ice cube, it will sink in water

0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.600
<v Speaker 1>because it's got a greater density than the surrounding water. Also,

0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 1>heavy water is more viscous than regular water. It's a

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.000
<v Speaker 1>little bit. Uh, it's gonna be a little bit more

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 1>like a like a jelly and maybe not to a

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, physically perceptible extent if you were to hold

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 1>it in your hands, but it is more viscous, which

0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>would probably have measurable effects if say, the oceans were

0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.839
<v Speaker 1>entirely made of deuterior m. Yes, and this is this

0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>is a great question that that had been asked on

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.839
<v Speaker 1>the Internet already. I think it originally showed up in

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.440
<v Speaker 1>a as a Cora question. Uh, what would the ocean

0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 1>be like if it was made out of heavy water?

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 1>And uh, and is sometimes the case on Cora. You

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 1>had a really insightful answer pop up, this one from

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Josh Velson, chemical engineering consultant for bio and petro chemicals.

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 1>And it was such a neat answer that it was

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 1>actually featured on Slate as well. Uh, so I recommend

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 1>checking that out. But but I want to touch on

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 1>some of the main points that Nelson makes, and I

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 1>want to stress this would be if there was a

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 1>magical instant change, you know, like snap your fingers. Now,

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 1>our oceans are just all heavy water, so it's not

0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 1>a realistic scenario, but it's one of those thought experiment

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 1>scenarios that I think helps to underline what we're talking

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 1>about here with heavy water and how it affects it

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 1>would affect, you know, various systems. So, first of all,

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 1>since any given portion of the water uh out there

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 1>in the oceans would be ten point six percent heavier,

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Velson says that anything swimming outside of its pressure zone

0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>would basically be instantly crushed. Now we've discussed on the

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 1>show before. However, you take certain deep sea organisms and

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 1>you bring them up into shallower waters, you have some

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 1>exploding effects that take place. And likewise, if you take

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.720
<v Speaker 1>something from shallower waters and plunge it down into the depths,

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 1>there can be a crushing scenario. But this just means

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>everything that these sort of things would be uh far

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>more exaggerated. Yeah, I didn't even consider this, But so

0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 1>if the ocean is suddenly about ten percent heavier at

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.240
<v Speaker 1>the molecular level, the pressure at the bottom of the

0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.640
<v Speaker 1>ocean would also be a lot higher. So so you're

0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.200
<v Speaker 1>suddenly down there and it's like somebody's just like put

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 1>an extra backpack on you. Yeah. Absolutely. Also, Velson says

0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.600
<v Speaker 1>that everything floating in the ocean would displace more mass,

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.200
<v Speaker 1>so ships would need extra ballast to stay at the

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 1>same level in a heavy water ocean. And then this

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 1>is interesting, Velson writes, quote a large portion of the

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 1>oceans would freeze instantly due to a higher freezing point.

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 1>This would release a lot of heat into the atmosphere

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.400
<v Speaker 1>in the polar regions, causing a massive imbalance and resulting

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>in some pretty spectacular polar cyclones unquote. Well, and then

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 1>on top of this, the mass of the planet would change.

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 1>This would alter the Moon's orbit, and basically it would

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 1>just mess with weather and climate in a major way,

0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.400
<v Speaker 1>resulting in earthquakes, tidal way, it's rising sea levels. But

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 1>of course, to change the ocean is to change life

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 1>as well. So we'll come back to this, and I'll

0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 1>come back to Nelson's points in a bit, all right, So,

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 1>I know what you out there are already wondering, Should

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I drink it heavy water? Should I should? I? You know,

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.000
<v Speaker 1>get a big bucket of it and just gulp, gulp, gulp.

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like the the ultimate metal head like bottled water, right,

0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 1>heavy water. Oh yeah, they would sell it at the

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.760
<v Speaker 1>metal shows. That's really good. So there's actually a great

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.280
<v Speaker 1>article about the history of drinking heavy water in the

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.440
<v Speaker 1>journal Nature Chemistry by the American chemist Michelle Francel. We

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>actually quoted a piece by her, uh at some point

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>in the past year, because she wrote a thing that

0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 1>we did for Cupid's leadon narrow That was it. She

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.440
<v Speaker 1>wrote an article about the history of sugar of lead

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.840
<v Speaker 1>as it was used in ancient Rome. That was really good.

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.280
<v Speaker 1>But this piece is called the Weight of Water. So

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 1>it was published in Nature Chemistry in twenty nineteen. So

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 1>she begins the story in nineteen thirteen talking about when

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 1>the Hungarian chemist George to Heavish was visiting the lab

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.119
<v Speaker 1>of Ernest Rutherford in Manchester, England. Now, eventually both of

0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.679
<v Speaker 1>these scientists would have Nobel Prizes for their discoveries, but

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.440
<v Speaker 1>at this point Rutherford was the was the senior scientist,

0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 1>and Heavis she was more of a young student, you know.

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.680
<v Speaker 1>He was still learned in the ropes. And Rutherford had

0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.640
<v Speaker 1>given Heavish a task here. He wanted to get him

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to take quantity of lead and find a way to

0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 1>chemically isolate all of the radioactive atoms of what was

0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.040
<v Speaker 1>then known as radium D from the lead and this sample,

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 1>and he Is she was unable to find a way

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.879
<v Speaker 1>to do this because what they were calling radium D

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.359
<v Speaker 1>was actually not radium but a radioactive isotope of lead

0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 1>that is now known as lead to tin. But in

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.680
<v Speaker 1>the process of working on this problem that he never

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.359
<v Speaker 1>ended up solving, he Is she realized a potentially very

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:33.960
<v Speaker 1>interesting implication of this failure. When a sample contains a radioisotope,

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.120
<v Speaker 1>a radioactive atom within a massive other atoms, you can

0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.680
<v Speaker 1>use these radioactive atoms to track the movement of a

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.360
<v Speaker 1>chemical through a biological system. So, for example, if you're

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.400
<v Speaker 1>curious how lead in the soil is taken up by

0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.199
<v Speaker 1>bean plants and then distributed around the plant's body, you

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 1>can spike the soil with radioactive isotopes of lead, so

0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>the plant will take them up. Because they're still lead,

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 1>it will treat him the way it normally treats lead.

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:06.240
<v Speaker 1>But because they're radioactive they're radioisotopes, you can track what

0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the plant is doing them with them. You can use

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.400
<v Speaker 1>equipment to track exactly how these isotopes are metabolized through

0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.400
<v Speaker 1>the roots. The stem the leaves. Uh. And you can

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.480
<v Speaker 1>also use these radioactive tracers to track the absorption and

0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 1>elimination of elements in animal bodies. So you could find out, well,

0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.760
<v Speaker 1>when when somebody ingests lead, does the body immediately purge

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.520
<v Speaker 1>it or does the lead stick around? How long does

0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.960
<v Speaker 1>it take the body to purge it? Where does it

0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.440
<v Speaker 1>go in the body? And it turns out you can

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 1>use radioactive tracers to find out lots of things about

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.320
<v Speaker 1>what's going on in the body, not just in basic

0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.760
<v Speaker 1>biological research, but actually in medicine. Radioactive tracers are used

0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.080
<v Speaker 1>in medicine all the time. Now Here, I wanted to

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 1>mention a couple of anecdotes that came across about Heavishet

0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 1>that are really interesting. He seems like a kind of

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.399
<v Speaker 1>mythic hero in a way, a sort of Romulus or

0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Gilgamesh here, or maybe we should say Bill Gamesh, Uh

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.159
<v Speaker 1>Bill Gamesh to heav is she? So there were a

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 1>couple of the most popular stories about his life that

0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.520
<v Speaker 1>that I I couldn't pass up mentioning. The first one

0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 1>I found recounted in a short historical article in the

0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.919
<v Speaker 1>Journal of Nuclear Cardiology, and it concerns how heavy she

0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.159
<v Speaker 1>first demonstrated that tracer principle that I was just talking about.

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.680
<v Speaker 1>So this is by Strauss at all uh from and

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 1>the authors here talk about while heav is she was

0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.440
<v Speaker 1>working in Manchester in this lab in the early nineteen tens.

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>He was living at a boarding house that had been

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>recommended to him by Rutherford by the way. So his

0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.639
<v Speaker 1>boss is like, hey live in this place, and apparently

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.200
<v Speaker 1>it was just miserable there, heavs. She started noticing that

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.719
<v Speaker 1>he didn't just hate his lodgings, he really hated the

0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.240
<v Speaker 1>food at his boarding house. He had a sensitive stomach,

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>he suffered from indigestion, and he started to suspect something

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.200
<v Speaker 1>was going on. What he thought was happening was that, uh,

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.639
<v Speaker 1>now this is an old school boy earning house, right,

0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.639
<v Speaker 1>so they give you not just a bed, but a

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.960
<v Speaker 1>bed and your daily meals. And he started to suspect

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:10.320
<v Speaker 1>that his landlady was recycling food. So you know, she

0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.720
<v Speaker 1>makes you a great r bee frost and then you

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.719
<v Speaker 1>eat a little bit of it and you don't finish it.

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.520
<v Speaker 1>There's some still on your plate. He is. She suspected

0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 1>that the landlady was just taking whatever you couldn't finish

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.480
<v Speaker 1>off of your plate and then taking it back to

0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 1>the kitchen and then mixing it up and serving it

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:31.080
<v Speaker 1>again in some disguised form the next day. Well, that's

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 1>just being a good mom. You know. You can appreciate,

0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, of refraining from food waste here, But he

0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:39.560
<v Speaker 1>is she was not happy with it, because I think

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.159
<v Speaker 1>the problem was the beef was already suffering from freshness

0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.399
<v Speaker 1>problems and was was being recycled to the point of

0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 1>possible food poisoning. So at some point, uh he called.

0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 1>He brought this up with his landlady to read from

0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 1>the article here quote. His suggestion that she served slee

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 1>prepared meat more than once a week was met with indignation.

0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 1>How could he, she insisted, accuse her of serving anything

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 1>but the freshest of ingredients. Uh, so have is? She

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 1>decided to put this claim to the test using a

0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.119
<v Speaker 1>really amazing method, in fact, using some of the exact

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.240
<v Speaker 1>same techniques that he had just been discovering recently in

0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Rutherford's lab that we were just talking about. So one Sunday,

0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>when he she had eaten as much as he could,

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.919
<v Speaker 1>he secretly spiked the food left on his plate with

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.960
<v Speaker 1>a number of radioactive isotopes, and I'm just going to

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.680
<v Speaker 1>read from the article here quote. A few days later,

0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 1>the electroscope he smuggled into the dining room revealed the

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:45.480
<v Speaker 1>presence of the tracer, radioactive hash. Confronted with the irrefutable evidence,

0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 1>all the landlady could do was exclaimed, this is magic.

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:53.720
<v Speaker 1>The first radio tracer investigation had successfully followed leftover meat

0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.119
<v Speaker 1>from the Sunday meal to the kitchen meat grinder, into

0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.439
<v Speaker 1>the hashpot, and back into the dining room table. So

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:06.119
<v Speaker 1>when in doubt, you know, spike your food with radio isotopes. Truly,

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.520
<v Speaker 1>this is one of the great adventures in science right here.

0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:13.240
<v Speaker 1>There's actually a much higher stakes one though. Uh. That's

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 1>the story about Heaves. She's life from World War two. So, uh,

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.199
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a great NPR piece about this from

0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 1>two thousand eleven by Robert Cruel, which that I'm relying

0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.240
<v Speaker 1>on here. I can't say the title or it will

0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:26.800
<v Speaker 1>ruin the story, but it goes like this. So in

0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 1>the summer of nineteen forty, Heaves she was working at

0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.400
<v Speaker 1>an institute in Copenhagen, in the laboratory of the great

0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.359
<v Speaker 1>physicist Niels Bore Uh Denmark had been invaded by the

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.639
<v Speaker 1>Nazis earlier that year. I think that was in April

0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen forty, and it was now occupied with German

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 1>troops raiding homes and marching in the streets. And they

0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 1>just arrived in Copenhagen later in the summer when the

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.840
<v Speaker 1>story takes place. So at the time, Nils Bore is

0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 1>in possession of two gold medals. They are Nobel prizes

0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 1>in fact, which are made of twenty three carrot gold,

0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.600
<v Speaker 1>but they're not his. They belonged to two German physicists,

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Max von Laua and James Frank, who were both at

0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 1>risk within Germany. Frank himself was Jewish and von Laua

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 1>was not, but he was known for his very fierce

0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 1>opposition to the Nazi Party. Now they had sent their

0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Nobel medals secretly to Boor's Institute for safe keeping. But

0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.160
<v Speaker 1>here we're faced with a problem. At the time, Germany

0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:30.959
<v Speaker 1>was at war and it was actually illegal to remove

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:34.440
<v Speaker 1>gold from the country. So by sending their gold medals

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>to Boor's lab, Frank and von Laua had committed what

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:41.480
<v Speaker 1>would probably be a capital offense back home, and worse,

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:44.440
<v Speaker 1>it couldn't really be covered up because their names were

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.400
<v Speaker 1>engraved on the gold medals. So Boor and his colleagues

0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 1>were thinking, oh no, if if our institute is raided

0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:54.640
<v Speaker 1>and uh, it probably will be Born knew his lab

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:56.399
<v Speaker 1>would be searched because it was known to be a

0:24:56.440 --> 0:24:59.680
<v Speaker 1>safe haven for Jewish scientists and and other people opposed

0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:02.360
<v Speaker 1>to the no Zis who were fleeing fleeing the Nazis.

0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:05.879
<v Speaker 1>They had come to his institute and now they were occupied.

0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Um so Bore realized they had to do something to

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.199
<v Speaker 1>hide these medals because if they were discovered, you know,

0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:15.200
<v Speaker 1>these scientists back in Germany would probably be put to death.

0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:18.840
<v Speaker 1>So Boor and his colleague at the time, Heavish, discussed

0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:21.159
<v Speaker 1>their options. They thought about maybe we could bury it,

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:23.280
<v Speaker 1>bury it in the gardens, but they worried that the

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Nazis would dig all over the grounds and probably find them.

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:29.520
<v Speaker 1>And then heavs she came up with an amazing solution,

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:35.200
<v Speaker 1>uh literally, a solution dissolve the metals. This was not easy,

0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.320
<v Speaker 1>since gold is not very reactive. It's difficult to dissolve

0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 1>but heavy she knew that there was a solution that

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.960
<v Speaker 1>would do the trick known as aqua reggia which is

0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:46.639
<v Speaker 1>a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid and a

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.520
<v Speaker 1>three to one ratio usually. So here I just want

0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:54.720
<v Speaker 1>to read from the NPR piece. Heavish and his autobiography says,

0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 1>because gold is quote exceedingly unreactive and difficult to dissolve,

0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:01.960
<v Speaker 1>it was slow going, but as the minutes ticked down,

0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:05.760
<v Speaker 1>both medals were reduced to a colorless solution that turned

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 1>faintly peach and then bright orange. By the time the

0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Nazis arrived, both awards had liquefied inside a flask that

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:17.880
<v Speaker 1>was then stashed on a high laboratory shelf. Then, says

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:20.879
<v Speaker 1>science writer and Radio Lab contributor Sam Keene in his

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:25.959
<v Speaker 1>book The Disappearing Spoon, quote, when the Nazis ransacked Boars Institute,

0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:29.159
<v Speaker 1>they scoured the building for loot or evidence of wrongdoing,

0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 1>but left the beaker of orange Aqua regia untouched. Heavy

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.040
<v Speaker 1>she was forced to flee to Stockholm in nineteen forty three,

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:40.080
<v Speaker 1>but when he returned to his battered laboratory on v Day,

0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:44.080
<v Speaker 1>he found the innocuous beaker undisturbed on a shelf. And

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:46.439
<v Speaker 1>there's a codage of the story that's pretty interesting. So

0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:49.760
<v Speaker 1>after the war was over. Heavy She again used chemistry

0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:52.920
<v Speaker 1>to re extract the same gold from the beakers, had

0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:55.920
<v Speaker 1>that sent to Stockholm, where it was reformed into new

0:26:55.960 --> 0:27:00.760
<v Speaker 1>medals that were again presented to the original recipients. Interesting,

0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:03.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, kind of unnecessary. I guess that the same

0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:06.080
<v Speaker 1>gold to actually go back to create the you know,

0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the the same awards, but still neat for it's got

0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 1>that magic thing. You know, people always want to like

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 1>melt down a symbol of one thing and turn it

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 1>into another. I guess in this case, it was melting

0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:17.120
<v Speaker 1>down a symbol of one thing and turning it back

0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:19.240
<v Speaker 1>into itself, but still has some of the same kind

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:22.679
<v Speaker 1>of symbolic weight there. Yeah, there's kind of a you know,

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 1>sitcom level um circular motion to the whole thing. Right,

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:27.560
<v Speaker 1>we come back at the end of the day, we

0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:29.960
<v Speaker 1>still have the same awards again, they've been reformed into

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.400
<v Speaker 1>the same thing we're familiar with. Yeah, totally. But coming

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:36.399
<v Speaker 1>back from from those anecdotes so so so now we've

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:38.520
<v Speaker 1>got an idea of heaves She the character he as

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:42.720
<v Speaker 1>She the mythic hero, his life actually also ties into

0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:47.359
<v Speaker 1>heavy Water. So there was one day in Manchester in

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen tens where Heavy she was having a

0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:53.439
<v Speaker 1>cup of tea with the English physicist Henry Moseley, and

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 1>at the time Heavy she was pursuing his radioactive tracer

0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.679
<v Speaker 1>experiments with plants, the ones that I was talking about earlier,

0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:02.040
<v Speaker 1>like the plants and seeing how they take up lead

0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 1>and and all that. Uh So, the idea was again

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:07.840
<v Speaker 1>that you could learn how elements from the soil are

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:13.120
<v Speaker 1>metabolized in plant bodies by studying this with with radioactive tracers.

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.919
<v Speaker 1>And apparently Heavy she and Moseley, we're getting all riled

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:20.040
<v Speaker 1>up about this idea, and heavs She posed a question

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.439
<v Speaker 1>about whether it would be possible to ever mark the

0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:27.120
<v Speaker 1>water molecules in a cup of tea with some kind

0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 1>of tracer that could track those molecules throughout the human body.

0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:33.439
<v Speaker 1>And at the time they did not know of a

0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:35.960
<v Speaker 1>way to do this with water molecules. But a couple

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.320
<v Speaker 1>of decades later, chemistry would come around with an answer

0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 1>in the form of discoveries by Harold Yuri, which we

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:47.200
<v Speaker 1>talked about previously, of heavy water. So not long after

0:28:47.240 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 1>the existence of heavy water based on deuterium was confirmed

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:54.720
<v Speaker 1>in the lab, a number of world class scientists decided well,

0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:56.280
<v Speaker 1>to hell with it, you know, let's let's put it

0:28:56.280 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 1>in our mouths and see what happens. Was it was

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 1>a different time of experimental regimes. And it's also funny

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 1>because if you read the scientific papers of the time,

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 1>often they're just like a paragraph long. They're just like,

0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:13.320
<v Speaker 1>here's what we did, here's what it tasted like. Nobody died.

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 1>So in the year ninety four, Herald Ury sent George

0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.520
<v Speaker 1>to heavs She a sample of water that had been

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 1>enriched to zero point five percent utterations. Remember, five percent

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>of this water is still the regular stuff, but this

0:29:28.640 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 1>would nevertheless represent a much higher concentration of heavy water

0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:35.080
<v Speaker 1>than a normal glass, right, And that percentage is worth

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:37.520
<v Speaker 1>keeping in mind for later when we're talking about higher

0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:40.800
<v Speaker 1>percentages in the human body. Right. So he is She

0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 1>and his assistant Eric Hawford decided to test the effects

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 1>of a deuterium enriched aquatic environment on goldfish. So they

0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 1>took twenty small goldfish and immerse them temporarily but for

0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 1>steadily increasing periods of time in the deuterated water. Uh

0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 1>And so, to read from francel here quote, the overcrowded

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 1>goldfish rapidly exchanged water with the deutorated water in the bowl,

0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:08.760
<v Speaker 1>which became miserably less dense, noting no change in the

0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 1>behavior of the zero point two percent deutorated goldfish, though

0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:15.240
<v Speaker 1>how this might be assessed with so many goldfish stuffed

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:17.479
<v Speaker 1>into a small glass for up to fifteen hours at

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:21.560
<v Speaker 1>a time is unclear. Heavy She apparently concluded it was

0:30:21.600 --> 0:30:24.200
<v Speaker 1>safe to drink the heavy water and proceeded to run

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the experiment he described Mosley twenty years before. So the

0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:32.440
<v Speaker 1>rationale here is, Okay, it seems good enough for a goldfish,

0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 1>good enough for me, I'm going to try it too well.

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 1>But I like that France Will brings up again, Like

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:40.920
<v Speaker 1>it's not exactly clear how they were judging what the

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.760
<v Speaker 1>effects on goldfish were, given that they were like cramming

0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 1>lots of goldfish in a very small container of water.

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:50.360
<v Speaker 1>I guess they observed that the goldfish were not dead, right,

0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you're looking for them to like die

0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:55.920
<v Speaker 1>instantly or explode or something. Yeah, So it's not clear

0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.920
<v Speaker 1>exactly whether heavy She or Hoeford did the drinking, but

0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:01.720
<v Speaker 1>one of them did, and they consumed a couple of

0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 1>the samples. They collected the heavy water from the drinker's urine,

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:10.600
<v Speaker 1>distilled it and measured its density, and about twenty minutes

0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>after the chugging deudated water started showing up in the

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.640
<v Speaker 1>urine and In this experiment heavy She and Hoverer found

0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.600
<v Speaker 1>that the average molecule of swallowed water lingers in a

0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:22.880
<v Speaker 1>human body a lot longer than it lingers in goldfish

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:25.320
<v Speaker 1>and humans. The metabolic half life of a dose of

0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>water is about nine days according to this test at least.

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 1>But the big question I guess is were they okay? Well,

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:34.680
<v Speaker 1>if not, they didn't report anything. There was no sickness,

0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 1>also no notes about what the water tasted like. So

0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>after heavys She and Hofer published their paper on deuterium

0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.480
<v Speaker 1>as a tracer for water and animal bodies, another professor

0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 1>decided to follow up by by addressing the question of

0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 1>toxicity head on. Now, obviously, whichever one of the the

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:54.040
<v Speaker 1>h is drank the heavy water was all right, But

0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 1>this wasn't an extremely deluded form was a small amount

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:01.880
<v Speaker 1>of it. A professor named Klaus Hanson of Oslo University

0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:05.680
<v Speaker 1>performed a toxicity test on himself in front of an

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:08.960
<v Speaker 1>audience including the press and a bunch of medical professionals

0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:12.959
<v Speaker 1>with equipment standing by like stomach pumps and stuff, and

0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Hanson swallowed what Francill characterizes as a quote scant teaspoonful

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 1>of heavy water. Now it turned out the life support

0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:23.760
<v Speaker 1>equipment was not needed. Hansen was fine, though he did

0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:29.200
<v Speaker 1>report what he called a dry burning sensation after swallowing um.

0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 1>And then Harold c Uri at Columbia University and his

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 1>colleague Geno Faila decided to follow up on this by

0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:39.000
<v Speaker 1>staging a blind taste test. So this is gonna be

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 1>like the Pepsi challenge, but for juteri um uh. And

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 1>they published the results in nineteen thirty five in a

0:32:45.240 --> 0:32:49.200
<v Speaker 1>paper called Concerning the Taste of Heavy Water. As I mentioned,

0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 1>sometimes papers were very short back then, so I can

0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:54.920
<v Speaker 1>actually just read the entire second paragraph of their paper

0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:58.760
<v Speaker 1>here Tasting notes for heavy water. Right, Okay, so here's

0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:01.560
<v Speaker 1>what they said. In order to make the experiment as

0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>objective as possible, a third person in a different room

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 1>prepared the samples to be tasted. Each of us was

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:11.400
<v Speaker 1>then given two identical watch glasses, one containing one cubic

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:14.560
<v Speaker 1>centimeter of ordinary distilled water and the other the same

0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:18.800
<v Speaker 1>amount of pure heavy water, especially prepared for biological experiments.

0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:21.160
<v Speaker 1>One of us kept each sample in his mouth for

0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:23.640
<v Speaker 1>a short time to make sure of its taste, then

0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:26.640
<v Speaker 1>spat it out. The other repeated the same procedure, but

0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:29.920
<v Speaker 1>swallowed the water. Neither of us could detect the slightest

0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 1>difference between the taste of ordinary distilled water and the

0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:35.600
<v Speaker 1>taste of pure heavy water. It might be mentioned in

0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:38.240
<v Speaker 1>this connection that one cubic centimeter of water is not

0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:41.000
<v Speaker 1>too small an amount to taste properly. Since both of

0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:44.760
<v Speaker 1>us could detect plainly the characteristic flat taste of distilled

0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:48.040
<v Speaker 1>water in both cases, it may be concluded therefore, that

0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:54.000
<v Speaker 1>pure deuterium oxide has the same taste as ordinary distilled water. UM. Now,

0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 1>this is funny because I've read some more recent studies.

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:58.640
<v Speaker 1>I think one that was that I found in a

0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:02.440
<v Speaker 1>preprint server that has not been published yet that claims

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:06.200
<v Speaker 1>that they've redone this taste test and decided that that

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 1>heavy water is noticeably sweeter. So they're disagreeing with Uri

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 1>and Fila here. I'm not sure how to sort that out.

0:34:13.280 --> 0:34:16.400
<v Speaker 1>But one of the things about these taste tests that

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Francill points out is that they were ridiculously expensive because

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:24.640
<v Speaker 1>at the time, the scant teaspoonful of heavy water that

0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Klaus Hansen swallowed probably cost the equivalent of about a

0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:33.120
<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand dollars in current US dollars. Uh. So, I

0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know if that's a good use of experimental resources. Uh,

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:41.960
<v Speaker 1>it's probably It's probably not surprising that Urie found these

0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:46.520
<v Speaker 1>human experiments wasteful, even though he did one. After all,

0:34:46.600 --> 0:34:49.720
<v Speaker 1>So like, if a scant teaspoonful is a hundred thousand

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>dollars worth of product, you know, and a teaspoonful water

0:34:53.200 --> 0:34:56.160
<v Speaker 1>is a vanishingly small sample compared to how much water

0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:59.359
<v Speaker 1>is in an adult human body, it's probably just gonna

0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 1>be prohibited of ly expensive to do toxicity experiments on

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:05.920
<v Speaker 1>a human being with with this stuff. Yeah, I mean

0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:09.880
<v Speaker 1>this seems even above and beyond iracous prices for water, right,

0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean this is crazy, Yeah, exactly. You make yourself

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.600
<v Speaker 1>a heavy water still suit, don't don't lose a drop.

0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:18.920
<v Speaker 1>So if you were trying to understand the physiological effects

0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 1>of heavy water at scale, you would need to test

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:24.120
<v Speaker 1>it on a much smaller organism. And eventually some research

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:26.279
<v Speaker 1>of this was carried out to figure out exactly what

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:30.160
<v Speaker 1>deuterated water does to plant and animal bodies that the

0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:33.360
<v Speaker 1>more research of this kind was done throughout the twentieth century.

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:36.799
<v Speaker 1>A study in nineteen thirty six by Henry Barber and

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Jane Trace found that heavy water was in fact quite

0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:43.640
<v Speaker 1>lethal if it could replace about of the water in

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:46.359
<v Speaker 1>in the body. And I think this was determined with

0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:49.880
<v Speaker 1>with small mammals like mice um and this is sometimes

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 1>shorthanded to about one third. There there are various percentages

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:58.360
<v Speaker 1>that are given, but basically you do not want one

0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 1>third to you know, half of your body water replaced

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:08.960
<v Speaker 1>by deuterated water. This creates immense problems. Um replacement of

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:13.200
<v Speaker 1>ordinary water with heavy water seems to kill the mammalian

0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:18.000
<v Speaker 1>body once you pass certain thresholds by primarily interfering with

0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:21.320
<v Speaker 1>mitosis or cell division, and in this way its effects

0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:23.600
<v Speaker 1>are strangely similar to what you would see with large

0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:29.880
<v Speaker 1>doses of chemotherapy. Metabolism slows down and cells stop dividing

0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:33.160
<v Speaker 1>and reproducing, and this can lead to of course sterility

0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:37.120
<v Speaker 1>and in the reproductive system, but also interior degradation of

0:36:37.160 --> 0:36:39.960
<v Speaker 1>the function of multiple organs throughout the body and a

0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:44.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of cytotoxic collapse before death. UH the chemical principle

0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:49.440
<v Speaker 1>that's responsible for this is known as the kinetic isotope effect,

0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:52.160
<v Speaker 1>so I'll try to do the simple version as best

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 1>to understand it. Again, deuterium is chemically pretty much the

0:36:55.719 --> 0:36:58.279
<v Speaker 1>same as regular hydrogen. It's got the same charge, the

0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:02.919
<v Speaker 1>same proton and electron, but because of the heavier nucleus um,

0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 1>even though it will usually engage in the same chemical reactions,

0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>there is a tendency for the changes in the isotopic

0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:14.439
<v Speaker 1>composition to affect the rate of chemical reactions. So even

0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:16.680
<v Speaker 1>though dto O is chemically a lot like regular H

0:37:16.719 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 1>two oh, it's heavy hydrogen forms stronger bonds with the

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:24.759
<v Speaker 1>oxygen atoms in the water molecules than regular protium does,

0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:27.880
<v Speaker 1>and this means it's harder than usual to break up

0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:31.839
<v Speaker 1>heavy water molecules into their constituent parts, which in turn

0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:36.799
<v Speaker 1>means lots of chemical reactions happen more slowly, and this

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:41.240
<v Speaker 1>starts to consistently slow down chemical reactions throughout the body

0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:43.839
<v Speaker 1>if you replace too much of the water in your

0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:46.520
<v Speaker 1>body with D two oh. If there's too much of

0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 1>it and chemical reactions get slowed down too much, all

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.200
<v Speaker 1>hell breaks loose cells don't divide, and there there's a

0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of there are kinds of systemic collapse that that

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.040
<v Speaker 1>just come from this. So heavy water makes for a

0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 1>very strange, a peculiar type of poison. You know, from

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:05.560
<v Speaker 1>everything I've been reading, it's something that is usually harmless

0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:09.080
<v Speaker 1>at doses of even probably a glassful. But if you

0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 1>can really load somebody up with heavy water to the

0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.799
<v Speaker 1>extent that it replaces somewhere between twenty five and of

0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:18.719
<v Speaker 1>the water in their body, it will absolutely kill them

0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:23.439
<v Speaker 1>in a horrific way. It is a ridiculously expensive way

0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.319
<v Speaker 1>to try and assassinate somebody, So I'm I'm kind of

0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:28.759
<v Speaker 1>shocked it hasn't been done in a James Bond film.

0:38:28.800 --> 0:38:31.080
<v Speaker 1>This seems perfect for the Bond world. That's a very

0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:32.759
<v Speaker 1>good point. Now, I think heavy water is not going

0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:34.600
<v Speaker 1>to be nearly as expensive as it was when those

0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:37.440
<v Speaker 1>first taste test experiments were done, but still, I mean, yeah,

0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:40.680
<v Speaker 1>it would be. It would be a needlessly elaborate method

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.120
<v Speaker 1>of assassination. I mean, surely one of those c s

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:45.520
<v Speaker 1>I shows considered it at some point. Maybe they did it.

0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:48.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'd I'd love to hear from anybody if

0:38:48.480 --> 0:38:50.440
<v Speaker 1>if they if you have seen a heavy water murder

0:38:50.480 --> 0:38:54.160
<v Speaker 1>episode of some sort of episodic detective show. I'd like

0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.239
<v Speaker 1>to hear about it. Well, this does tie into one

0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:01.240
<v Speaker 1>particular example that Francile Sites in her article. Uh that

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:04.640
<v Speaker 1>no one was killed fortunately in this example, but there

0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:08.480
<v Speaker 1>was an instance of of heavy water poisoning. Though the

0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 1>heavy water turns out to be not necessarily the the

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:16.440
<v Speaker 1>important part of the story. So there was an Associated

0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Press article from March five Francile Sites, and I went

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:23.280
<v Speaker 1>and looked up the original article. It's called power plant

0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:28.160
<v Speaker 1>worker accused of spiking cooler with radioactive water. This happened

0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:33.239
<v Speaker 1>in in Canada, so it's a dateline New Brunswick. And uh,

0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:35.960
<v Speaker 1>just to read the lead here quote a nuclear power

0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:39.000
<v Speaker 1>plant worker was charged Monday with spiking a lunch room

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:42.799
<v Speaker 1>cooler with radioactive water that eight men drank before the

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:46.719
<v Speaker 1>contamination was discovered. The eight who drank the contaminated water

0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.560
<v Speaker 1>last month that the point Lapro plant have have a

0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:52.960
<v Speaker 1>slightly higher chance of getting cancer, officials said, but are

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:56.759
<v Speaker 1>in no immediate health danger. Uh. And the article goes

0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:59.719
<v Speaker 1>on to characterize this is probably some kind of practical

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.720
<v Speaker 1>oak gone awry. Does not seem like a very good joke. Again,

0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:06.560
<v Speaker 1>no one died immediately from this, though, the person who

0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:10.160
<v Speaker 1>spiked the water was charged with a crime. Uh. And

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.400
<v Speaker 1>this does tie into an interesting misconception, which is that

0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:18.839
<v Speaker 1>heavy water is naturally radioactive and heavy water it's not.

0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Deuterated water is not naturally radioactive unless it's been made

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:26.680
<v Speaker 1>radioactive by, say by for example, like being the cool

0:40:26.760 --> 0:40:31.680
<v Speaker 1>and around a nuclear reactor. UM. Now, water with hydrogen three,

0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:34.960
<v Speaker 1>remember heavy water is the kind we've been talking about,

0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.600
<v Speaker 1>is with hydrogen two. Deuterium water with hydrogen three, also

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.320
<v Speaker 1>known as tritium, would be another story. It is definitely

0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:44.840
<v Speaker 1>radioactive in all its forms, but far far less common

0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:47.439
<v Speaker 1>in nature. So if you were to drink heavy water,

0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:50.399
<v Speaker 1>it would not naturally be a radioactivity risk. It would

0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 1>be this poisoning risk if you drank enough of it

0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:56.560
<v Speaker 1>and it replaced enough of the water in your body. Right.

0:40:56.840 --> 0:40:58.680
<v Speaker 1>And and that kind of brings us back to that

0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Velson q and A that was published in Slate that

0:41:02.280 --> 0:41:05.520
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned earlier. You know, you instantly replaced the world's

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:08.839
<v Speaker 1>oceans with heavy water, where you have these immediate concerns.

0:41:09.600 --> 0:41:12.319
<v Speaker 1>But then obviously that water is going to make its

0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:16.720
<v Speaker 1>way into organisms, and so Velson writes, you know that basically,

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:20.600
<v Speaker 1>the biological concerns here would start out UH milder. You know,

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:23.520
<v Speaker 1>it would be more about bloat and weight, lower blood pressure.

0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 1>But by the time you reached like the tent heavy

0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:30.279
<v Speaker 1>water mark in particularly in humans, we would be just

0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:34.120
<v Speaker 1>irreversibly sterile. And then certainly by the time you hit

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.800
<v Speaker 1>that fifty percent point, I mean, that's that's definitely in

0:41:36.840 --> 0:41:39.719
<v Speaker 1>the fatal zone. UH. So you know, Velson writes that,

0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:43.800
<v Speaker 1>you know that heavy water makes UH eukaryotic cell division

0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:48.000
<v Speaker 1>impossible due to the impact on the my mitotic spindle,

0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:52.880
<v Speaker 1>so most multicellular eukaryotic life would just snuff it extinct

0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:55.719
<v Speaker 1>within a few years. Yeah, I was looking at some

0:41:55.719 --> 0:42:01.399
<v Speaker 1>some possible exceptions. There are interestingly, UH organisms that are

0:42:01.560 --> 0:42:04.600
<v Speaker 1>heavy water tolerant, or much more heavy water tolerant than

0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:08.120
<v Speaker 1>other organisms. So prokaryotes, I think, in general, are more

0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:12.160
<v Speaker 1>tolerant of of being exposed to deutorated water than eukaryotes are.

0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Bacteria are going to be better off, and maybe they

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:18.600
<v Speaker 1>could just like you know, re evolve new complex life

0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:21.640
<v Speaker 1>forms in the UH in the deutorated world. I wonder

0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:24.200
<v Speaker 1>if they would be like slower moving life forms because

0:42:24.239 --> 0:42:28.000
<v Speaker 1>the deutorated earth would just like have slower chemical reactions

0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 1>in general. Well, you know, I did a lot. I

0:42:30.719 --> 0:42:32.839
<v Speaker 1>was thinking the same things. I was looking around a

0:42:32.880 --> 0:42:35.120
<v Speaker 1>lot to find some examples that are, you know, some

0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:40.040
<v Speaker 1>sci fi visions of what heavy water organisms might consist of,

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:42.680
<v Speaker 1>and and I was not able to find anything. But

0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:46.880
<v Speaker 1>I did find some some stuff about the idea of

0:42:46.880 --> 0:42:50.120
<v Speaker 1>of of heavy water organisms that have would have would

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:53.840
<v Speaker 1>be cultivated for their use in magnetic resonant studies. And

0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.759
<v Speaker 1>these were proposed back in the late nineteen sixties. These

0:42:56.760 --> 0:42:59.920
<v Speaker 1>would again be cultivated versions of natural world world organism

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:04.239
<v Speaker 1>is that um in their heavy form would not be

0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:07.080
<v Speaker 1>found anywhere in the natural world, so as proposed by

0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Cats and Crespy in us in the journal Science back

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:13.520
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen sixty six. There various uses and products one

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 1>could derive from their cultivation. Higher plants and even simple

0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:22.880
<v Speaker 1>organisms like you mentioned can resist full deuteration, but there

0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:25.360
<v Speaker 1>are possibilities for other life forms. So so some of

0:43:25.400 --> 0:43:27.840
<v Speaker 1>the main benefits here would be their use in studying

0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:31.759
<v Speaker 1>UH heavy water isotopes, you know, following the path of

0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:36.359
<v Speaker 1>hydrogen in biological systems. UH deuterated algae, for instance, which

0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:38.759
<v Speaker 1>we've had since the nineteen sixties have a useful role

0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:42.680
<v Speaker 1>in the study of photosynthesis. But um, yeah, I wish

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:44.759
<v Speaker 1>I could have found something about like the idea of

0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:49.359
<v Speaker 1>the deuterated man heavy water, heavy water elephants or something

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:51.840
<v Speaker 1>like that, But I didn't find anything. That's how we

0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:57.160
<v Speaker 1>get Middle Earth's sort of a chemical recycling event and

0:43:57.160 --> 0:44:00.200
<v Speaker 1>and and ended up there. Um. I did find one

0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.680
<v Speaker 1>example that I was looking at. Apparently there's some kind

0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:08.200
<v Speaker 1>of nematode worm that can survive and reproduce in almost pure,

0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:12.759
<v Speaker 1>pure deuterated water. Interesting, there's always a worm. That should

0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:14.920
<v Speaker 1>be a slogan of this show. You know, whatever you're

0:44:14.960 --> 0:44:18.000
<v Speaker 1>saying about biology, it's like it's true in most cases,

0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:24.399
<v Speaker 1>but there's always a worm. Thank you, thank you. Thank

0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Now there's another way that heavy water has been very important,

0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:32.319
<v Speaker 1>and that's in the history and development of nuclear technology,

0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:36.000
<v Speaker 1>and um, in developing nuclear reactors and in the history

0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:39.680
<v Speaker 1>of the development of nuclear weapons. Yeah, this is all interesting,

0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:42.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, looking at the twentieth century certainly a time

0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:45.520
<v Speaker 1>in which our understanding of chemistry greatly evolved, and then

0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:49.440
<v Speaker 1>of course we began to understand uh nuclear fission as well,

0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:53.520
<v Speaker 1>and scientists around this time, so nuclear fission. Uh. This

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:57.319
<v Speaker 1>was a discovered in December of night. Around this time,

0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:00.520
<v Speaker 1>scientists began to realize that heavy water could be as

0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:04.279
<v Speaker 1>what is called a moderator. So in nuclear reactors, a

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:08.640
<v Speaker 1>moderator slows down the neutrons to speeds at which fission

0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:11.880
<v Speaker 1>can occur. Uh. It helps to create the conditions in

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:15.480
<v Speaker 1>which a true fission chain reaction can occur and keep going.

0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:20.120
<v Speaker 1>So a nuclear reactor using heavy water can make use

0:45:20.160 --> 0:45:24.560
<v Speaker 1>of naturally occurring uranium rather than enriched in ranium, because again,

0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.680
<v Speaker 1>you can't just kick a bunch of naturally occurring uranium

0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:32.240
<v Speaker 1>and produce an atomic blast. So basically, scientists in Germany

0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:34.799
<v Speaker 1>and in the UK they realized kind of early on

0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 1>what heavy water could potentially do. Now, an interesting wrinkle

0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:42.200
<v Speaker 1>here is that the US atomic weapons program ended up

0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 1>depending far more on graphite as a moderator than heavy water.

0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:48.759
<v Speaker 1>But the Germans came to believe that graphite wouldn't cut it,

0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:52.319
<v Speaker 1>so they focused on heavy water. UM. Heavy water was

0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:57.120
<v Speaker 1>obtained by um electrolysis, and a leading facility producing it

0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:01.200
<v Speaker 1>was norways of the more facility, So the French and

0:46:01.200 --> 0:46:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the Germans both attempted to buy the entire stock. I

0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:07.720
<v Speaker 1>think the Germans had purchased some, but then there uh

0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:09.719
<v Speaker 1>for the French and the Germans both were like, we

0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:13.880
<v Speaker 1>want to buy it all, and aware of the military possibilities, Norway,

0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:16.719
<v Speaker 1>which was at that point neutral, sold it all to

0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:19.480
<v Speaker 1>France and and it was smuggled out of the country.

0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:24.960
<v Speaker 1>In that same year, however, the Germans took Norway and

0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:28.959
<v Speaker 1>the plant became a military target for the Allies because,

0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:31.880
<v Speaker 1>of course, the whole situation here is it suspected that

0:46:31.920 --> 0:46:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Germany is working on creating an atomic weapon, right, and

0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:38.879
<v Speaker 1>so the idea and they didn't know exactly how things

0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:41.319
<v Speaker 1>would shake out, but it looked at the time like

0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:45.280
<v Speaker 1>heavy water might be a really crucial element in achieving

0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:48.840
<v Speaker 1>nuclear weapons, right, and so there was obvious like terror

0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 1>among the Allies that like, oh no, if they get

0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:53.440
<v Speaker 1>their hands on too much heavy water, they could build

0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:57.120
<v Speaker 1>a nuclear reactor that could potentially lead to weapons capabilities

0:46:57.200 --> 0:47:00.520
<v Speaker 1>or whatever before we achieved them. So it's again it's

0:47:00.520 --> 0:47:02.359
<v Speaker 1>a one ring scenario. It's like, you know, give us

0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:06.319
<v Speaker 1>the weapon of the enemy, don't let them have it, right, Yeah, So,

0:47:06.760 --> 0:47:10.080
<v Speaker 1>as a result, this facility was targeted five different times

0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:13.919
<v Speaker 1>UM by the Norwegian Special Forces, by the r a F,

0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.480
<v Speaker 1>by the British Army, by the US Air Force, and

0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:19.719
<v Speaker 1>by the Norwegian Resistance. And these were efforts again to

0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 1>try and prevent the Germans from developing an atomic weapon UM.

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.120
<v Speaker 1>Operation Gunner's Side was a particular note. In this one,

0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:30.799
<v Speaker 1>four Norwegian agents parachuted into the area. They joined up

0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:34.120
<v Speaker 1>with four special agents of Special Forces agents that had

0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:37.399
<v Speaker 1>been deployed earlier on a recon miss mission, and they

0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.440
<v Speaker 1>all attacked the plant, destroying the heavy water section of

0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the plant and costing the Germans something like fives of

0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:48.239
<v Speaker 1>heavy water. I think these missions had no casualties. Also, well,

0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:52.360
<v Speaker 1>these two missions that have mentioned here had no casualties.

0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:56.760
<v Speaker 1>There was one of the attempts UM ended up involving

0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:59.640
<v Speaker 1>a plane crash and the the agents involved were executed

0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:04.319
<v Speaker 1>by the Germans. But but this particular mission, I think, yeah,

0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:07.359
<v Speaker 1>you're correct on UM. Now it would ultimately turn out

0:48:07.400 --> 0:48:11.000
<v Speaker 1>that the Germans were not nearly as close as suspected UM.

0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:13.920
<v Speaker 1>But this certainly put a dent in their efforts. Basically,

0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:18.240
<v Speaker 1>the immediate demands of the war, combined with the efforts

0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:22.360
<v Speaker 1>by a resistance and special Forces here basically kept the

0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:25.279
<v Speaker 1>nuclear program of the of Germany in a kind of

0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:29.319
<v Speaker 1>preliminary stage. But of course the Allies did not know this.

0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:32.160
<v Speaker 1>They just they just knew that some effort was underway

0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:35.640
<v Speaker 1>and it needed to be curved. Now, in more recent years,

0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:38.279
<v Speaker 1>there are all kinds of interesting uses that have been

0:48:38.320 --> 0:48:42.200
<v Speaker 1>discovered for deuterium and UH and heavy water that might

0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:44.719
<v Speaker 1>not have even been imagined early on, or maybe some

0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>of which were imagined early on, but nobody knew if

0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:49.440
<v Speaker 1>they would ever be achieved. One of the examples that

0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I was just recently looking at is this interesting idea

0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:56.200
<v Speaker 1>of deuterated drugs, apparently the first one of which was

0:48:56.239 --> 0:48:58.960
<v Speaker 1>approved by the f d A in seventeen, but it's

0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:01.960
<v Speaker 1>an idea that's been around for a long time. Yeah,

0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I think the first patent was granted back in the

0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:07.840
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies. Um, so yeah, it's interesting. Now, before anyone

0:49:07.880 --> 0:49:10.200
<v Speaker 1>assumes this has anything to do with turning your water

0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.560
<v Speaker 1>heavy or any sort of thing, the basic idea of

0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:17.520
<v Speaker 1>these UH deuterated drugs is that the resulting drug has

0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 1>a longer half life due to lower rates of metabolism.

0:49:21.600 --> 0:49:24.399
<v Speaker 1>So half life when we're talking about medication. It's it's

0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:27.359
<v Speaker 1>the point at which it loses fifty of its effectiveness

0:49:27.520 --> 0:49:31.440
<v Speaker 1>inside your body. So this isn't related to say shelf life. Uh,

0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:34.759
<v Speaker 1>it's about how the drug functions in the body itself, right,

0:49:34.800 --> 0:49:37.840
<v Speaker 1>so it can like act more slowly over a longer

0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:42.520
<v Speaker 1>period of time. Yeah. Um, And it's funny because we've

0:49:42.520 --> 0:49:45.560
<v Speaker 1>talked about several different ways now. Essentially one of the

0:49:45.600 --> 0:49:48.760
<v Speaker 1>ways that delorated water will kill you if you drink

0:49:48.760 --> 0:49:51.680
<v Speaker 1>too much of it is it slows down metabolism and

0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:54.520
<v Speaker 1>chemical reactions cell division in your body to a point

0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:59.279
<v Speaker 1>where you can't survive anymore. But there are more moderated

0:49:59.320 --> 0:50:03.640
<v Speaker 1>forms of consuming heavy water that people have long speculated,

0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:06.160
<v Speaker 1>whether rightly or not. I mean, there is still an

0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:09.120
<v Speaker 1>open question as to whether there's anything to these ideas,

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:12.480
<v Speaker 1>but have speculated that, well, maybe you could use this

0:50:12.560 --> 0:50:15.719
<v Speaker 1>to slow down chemical reactions in the body in a

0:50:15.760 --> 0:50:18.799
<v Speaker 1>good way, in a way that's actually desirable, such as

0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:23.440
<v Speaker 1>in life extension or you know, human hibernation or things

0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:27.560
<v Speaker 1>like that. So I wanted to read apart from in

0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Francel's article where she says, quote Mounta banks have been

0:50:31.000 --> 0:50:34.080
<v Speaker 1>promoting heavy water as a panacea almost since the moment

0:50:34.120 --> 0:50:37.680
<v Speaker 1>you're re isolated the first sample. Even imminent chemists have

0:50:37.760 --> 0:50:41.160
<v Speaker 1>not been immune. In a nineteen thirty seven Popular Science article,

0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:45.279
<v Speaker 1>Chemiss James Kendall opined that the elderly might extend their

0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:49.280
<v Speaker 1>lives by drinking heavy water. Quote the heavy water drinkers

0:50:49.320 --> 0:50:53.720
<v Speaker 1>reactions would probably be slowed and possibly his mental processes also.

0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:58.520
<v Speaker 1>But who wants to be fast at sixty Well, I mean,

0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:02.120
<v Speaker 1>I guess you know sixty was there's a different sixty seven,

0:51:02.160 --> 0:51:07.399
<v Speaker 1>I guess. But so the idea here is just don't

0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:09.799
<v Speaker 1>drink too much of it, Drink a balance of it,

0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:11.760
<v Speaker 1>and you'll be okay. It's kind of a never finish

0:51:11.960 --> 0:51:15.839
<v Speaker 1>your second drink approach to life. Yes, now, I want

0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:18.720
<v Speaker 1>to be extremely clear, we are not advocating that anyone

0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:21.439
<v Speaker 1>do this, nor claiming that this would be effective. But

0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:25.080
<v Speaker 1>it is something that people have continued to speculate about.

0:51:25.160 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 1>So that one article that Francial references in her article

0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:32.560
<v Speaker 1>is by A. Zion Lee and Michael P. Snyder and

0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:36.560
<v Speaker 1>bio essays in that is a it's a speculative article

0:51:36.680 --> 0:51:40.400
<v Speaker 1>that explores this question. It's called quote can heavy isotopes

0:51:40.560 --> 0:51:44.960
<v Speaker 1>increased lifespan studies of relative abundance and various organisms reveal

0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:48.360
<v Speaker 1>chemical perspectives on aging. Now they sit again some of

0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:51.440
<v Speaker 1>the same stuff we've been talking about, the the chemistry

0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:55.040
<v Speaker 1>of the kinetic isotope effects which slow down chemical reactions,

0:51:55.600 --> 0:51:59.000
<v Speaker 1>and this sort of slows down all kinds of processes

0:51:59.040 --> 0:52:00.959
<v Speaker 1>that happened in the body that are in a way

0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:04.200
<v Speaker 1>that they are metabolic processes that are associated with the

0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:07.360
<v Speaker 1>advancing of age. And so the authors here right quote

0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:11.840
<v Speaker 1>previous isotope analyses have recorded pervasive enrichment or depletion of

0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:16.040
<v Speaker 1>heavy isotopes in various organisms, strongly supporting the capability of

0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:20.600
<v Speaker 1>biological systems to distinguish different isotopes. This capability has recently

0:52:20.640 --> 0:52:23.560
<v Speaker 1>been found to lead to general decline of heavy isotopes

0:52:23.600 --> 0:52:29.080
<v Speaker 1>in metabolites during yeast aging. Conversely, supplementing heavy isotopes and

0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:33.800
<v Speaker 1>growth medium promotes longevity. Whether this observation prevails in other

0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:36.920
<v Speaker 1>organisms is not known, but it potentially bears promise in

0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:41.520
<v Speaker 1>promoting human longevity. So some of the ideas explored here.

0:52:41.520 --> 0:52:44.760
<v Speaker 1>The implications would be that you could possibly ingest certain

0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:48.760
<v Speaker 1>amounts of heavy water to trigger um UH, to trigger

0:52:48.800 --> 0:52:51.400
<v Speaker 1>a sort of state of hibernation, which could be useful

0:52:51.440 --> 0:52:56.000
<v Speaker 1>and say like interstellar travel. Francill points that out um

0:52:56.040 --> 0:53:00.400
<v Speaker 1>but also as summarized by Francill, basically they're observation is

0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:04.360
<v Speaker 1>that quote Yeast models have showed that heavier isotopes, including deuterium,

0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:08.920
<v Speaker 1>become depleted in organisms with aging. They suggested as possible

0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:14.280
<v Speaker 1>that periodically supplementing the diet with appropriate isotopeologus could extend

0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:18.239
<v Speaker 1>human lifespans. So if like you, tend to lose deuterium

0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:21.440
<v Speaker 1>as you get older, maybe supplementing the body with some

0:53:21.440 --> 0:53:23.320
<v Speaker 1>some you know, a little bit of extra heavy water,

0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:26.640
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of extra deuterium might do you some good. Again,

0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:30.840
<v Speaker 1>totally speculative, not proven, but there are there are some

0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:35.000
<v Speaker 1>interesting tidbits in other organisms that suggests the possibility here.

0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:38.840
<v Speaker 1>So in the future, the idea of saying heavy water

0:53:38.880 --> 0:53:41.960
<v Speaker 1>supplements are possible, even if you end up having to

0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:46.279
<v Speaker 1>buy them from Goop as opposed to anywhere, right, I mean,

0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:48.120
<v Speaker 1>I guess the question would be like, is this gonna

0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:50.440
<v Speaker 1>end up being science based medicine or is this going

0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:53.720
<v Speaker 1>to end up being some some pseudoscientific miracle cure hawked

0:53:53.800 --> 0:53:57.520
<v Speaker 1>on you know whatever. Conspiracy theory show um. But either

0:53:57.560 --> 0:53:59.799
<v Speaker 1>way you're it's going to be for sale. Now. An

0:53:59.800 --> 0:54:03.160
<v Speaker 1>inn resting thing I ran across Joe was that UM

0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:05.399
<v Speaker 1>Apparently by by you can look at Mars, and by

0:54:05.440 --> 0:54:09.160
<v Speaker 1>looking at the ratio between deudorated water and normal water

0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:12.000
<v Speaker 1>on Mars, scientists are able to get a better picture

0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:16.080
<v Speaker 1>of how much water Mars lost in the past. So basically,

0:54:16.120 --> 0:54:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the more heavy water present, which is harder to lose,

0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:22.120
<v Speaker 1>than the more water you lost over time. So to

0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:25.239
<v Speaker 1>come back to that idea of like heavy nickels and

0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:30.239
<v Speaker 1>normal nickels in your like personal Scrooge McDuck bank, if

0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:33.000
<v Speaker 1>you were afraid that lepri cons we're stealing your nickels

0:54:33.239 --> 0:54:38.200
<v Speaker 1>and lepricns are incapable of carrying them the heavier heavy nickels,

0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:41.279
<v Speaker 1>then you could go to your Scrooge McDuck vault and

0:54:41.360 --> 0:54:44.120
<v Speaker 1>you look in there and you count the heavy nickels,

0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and you could you could determine how many normal nickels

0:54:47.960 --> 0:54:51.840
<v Speaker 1>have been stolen by lepricns based on the resulting ratio.

0:54:52.280 --> 0:54:54.680
<v Speaker 1>That's really cool, and I love your analogy, by the way,

0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:57.880
<v Speaker 1>but this does highlight the way that even if it

0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:00.799
<v Speaker 1>turns out that you know, deudorde water is not going

0:55:00.840 --> 0:55:03.919
<v Speaker 1>to extend human lifespans or anything like that. I think

0:55:04.400 --> 0:55:11.240
<v Speaker 1>deuterium and heavy water will absolutely remain extremely important scientific

0:55:11.280 --> 0:55:13.800
<v Speaker 1>atoms and molecules for for research because there are a

0:55:13.800 --> 0:55:16.440
<v Speaker 1>secondary indicator of all kinds of things. You can find

0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:19.480
<v Speaker 1>out a lot about the world by looking at at

0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:23.080
<v Speaker 1>heavy water content and how it behaves. Yeah, I just

0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:25.719
<v Speaker 1>wish I could have found a heavy water alien. I

0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:28.759
<v Speaker 1>really wanted to find some somebody talking about heavy water

0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:32.400
<v Speaker 1>aliens and heavy water people. So well, hey, that's that's

0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:36.600
<v Speaker 1>open field. Somebody somebody set up a homestead there. Yeah, yeah,

0:55:36.640 --> 0:55:39.600
<v Speaker 1>somebody right about it. Now. The one thing that is

0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:42.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of related to all this in science fiction is

0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:46.560
<v Speaker 1>that you have had some some some science fiction writers

0:55:46.640 --> 0:55:50.520
<v Speaker 1>who have dealt with various proposed alternate versions of water.

0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:54.759
<v Speaker 1>So author and National geographic journalist Robert C. O'Brien, who

0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:58.600
<v Speaker 1>lived nineteen eighteen through nineteen seventy three, uh, most famous

0:55:58.880 --> 0:56:01.440
<v Speaker 1>as being the author of Ms. Frisbee and the Rats

0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:04.920
<v Speaker 1>of Nim, wrote in nineteen seventy two novel titled A

0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Report from Group seventeen, and it has a lot to

0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:10.920
<v Speaker 1>do with Nazi plots and a form of water that

0:56:11.040 --> 0:56:15.560
<v Speaker 1>essentially brainwashes individuals. So heavy water apparently might have played

0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:19.319
<v Speaker 1>a role in this idea, along with this concept of

0:56:19.400 --> 0:56:24.760
<v Speaker 1>polly water. This was a hypothesized, uh, polymerized form of water.

0:56:25.080 --> 0:56:26.840
<v Speaker 1>They would have been kind of like a syrup, you

0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:30.440
<v Speaker 1>know again, I mean more viscous. It doesn't actually exist,

0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:34.560
<v Speaker 1>but it also infloy The idea of it also influenced

0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Kurt Vonnicut's Ice nine concept and Cat's Cradle. Oh yeah,

0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:41.000
<v Speaker 1>and for those not familiar, Ice nine one of the

0:56:41.000 --> 0:56:43.560
<v Speaker 1>great plot devices of all time. It's a it's an

0:56:43.640 --> 0:56:48.400
<v Speaker 1>alternate form of the water molecule that freezes at room temperature,

0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:50.960
<v Speaker 1>and it can act as a seed crystal. So basically

0:56:51.000 --> 0:56:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the premises you drop this in a lake and suddenly

0:56:53.960 --> 0:56:58.240
<v Speaker 1>the entire lake will freeze at room temperature. It's bad.

0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:03.439
<v Speaker 1>It's bad and doesn't exist. Uh, unlike heavy water, which

0:57:03.480 --> 0:57:06.919
<v Speaker 1>is which does exist and is in you right now. Yeah,

0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:10.960
<v Speaker 1>that's the interesting thing. Um, it's weird how reading about this, uh,

0:57:11.000 --> 0:57:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and I keep thinking about heavy water holding these uh

0:57:14.440 --> 0:57:16.400
<v Speaker 1>opposing ideas in my head at the same time. I

0:57:16.400 --> 0:57:19.479
<v Speaker 1>guess it's like an exercise in scientific negative capability because

0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:23.520
<v Speaker 1>I keep thinking of heavy water simultaneously as something that's natural,

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:25.960
<v Speaker 1>found in all the oceans of the world. It's in

0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:28.600
<v Speaker 1>your body right now. It's gonna be harmless at the

0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:33.120
<v Speaker 1>levels that you ingested, but also is like a horrific poison,

0:57:33.440 --> 0:57:36.360
<v Speaker 1>if you know, if ingested in the wrong way. Yeah,

0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, of course, we we often have to think

0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:40.040
<v Speaker 1>about that in terms of a lot of different things,

0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:44.240
<v Speaker 1>including just normal water, right, I mean, um, as well

0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:48.680
<v Speaker 1>as like various household spices, um, you know, moderation and

0:57:48.720 --> 0:57:51.240
<v Speaker 1>all things. Right, I mean, that's what holds the world

0:57:51.320 --> 0:57:53.600
<v Speaker 1>to get holds their bodies together. Just dealing with without

0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:57.360
<v Speaker 1>any you know, ethical interpretations of the statement like there

0:57:57.440 --> 0:57:59.720
<v Speaker 1>is a there is a balance, there's a chemical balance

0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:01.960
<v Speaker 1>in all things, and that's kind of I mean, that's

0:58:02.000 --> 0:58:03.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of one of the big take homes of the

0:58:03.360 --> 0:58:06.840
<v Speaker 1>chemical revolution. In addition to you know, developing all these

0:58:06.920 --> 0:58:09.600
<v Speaker 1>chemicals of life and then also these chemicals of death

0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:14.000
<v Speaker 1>during the twentieth century, you know, just are are our

0:58:14.080 --> 0:58:16.919
<v Speaker 1>sudden you know, increasing understanding of just all of these

0:58:16.920 --> 0:58:22.160
<v Speaker 1>little bonds that hold us together. Extremely good point. One

0:58:22.240 --> 0:58:25.240
<v Speaker 1>last thing I'll just say again, don't start buying heavy

0:58:25.240 --> 0:58:28.400
<v Speaker 1>water for life extension unless it's actually backed up by science.

0:58:29.080 --> 0:58:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Correct check the research on that. All right, Well, again,

0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:37.320
<v Speaker 1>we would love to hear from everyone out there about

0:58:37.360 --> 0:58:39.439
<v Speaker 1>heavy water. If you have any experience with heavy water,

0:58:39.560 --> 0:58:42.320
<v Speaker 1>thoughts on heavy water, or indeed have you if you

0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:45.280
<v Speaker 1>have read science fiction or had any kind of science

0:58:45.480 --> 0:58:49.920
<v Speaker 1>fiction based thoughts around heavy water organisms, we would love

0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:51.640
<v Speaker 1>to hear from you. In the meantime, if you would

0:58:51.640 --> 0:58:53.280
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0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.000
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0:58:57.840 --> 0:59:03.200
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