1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In today's Vault 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: episode originally aired on December, it was about heavy water. 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: That's right, because it's it's New Year's Day. Happy New 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Year's Joe. And when you think new Happy New Year's 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: you think heavy water. So of course this just lines 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: up perfectly. Drink up. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: production of my Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm 10 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick. And today I wanted to start off by 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: talking about something that may have come up in the 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: past on the show of CORP. I don't quite remember, 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: but I don't think we've ever gone into great detail 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: on it. So there is this popular chemistry prank that 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: that goes some thing like this. You you approach somebody 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: with a petition or a public service announcement. Uh. And 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: if I could do the Donald pleasants like Spirit of 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: Dark and Lonely Water Voice, I would do this. But 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: just imagine it. Can you imagine I'm I'm Donald Coleasant 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: saying this to you. What if I told you there 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: was a household chemical present in more than ercent of 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: homes in America, which is used as an an ingredient 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: in everything from packaged foods, to cleaning products to children's medicine. 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: And yet this chemical has been proven to cause severe 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: burns to the skin and mouth, can be lethal if 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: it's inhaled, and is the primary constituent in acid rain. 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: According to historical sources, this was the main ingredient in 28 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: the poison that Socrates drank to commit suicide after his 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: trial and Athens. It's so corrosive that it can eat 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: holes in solid iron, and yet we expose our bodies 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: to this chemical every time we have a cup of 32 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: tea or take a shower. Studies have found that trace 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: him of this compound linger in our decomposing bodies, even 34 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: for months after we die. It is so addictive that 35 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: the average human cannot at this point survive more than 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: a few days without receiving a dose. This chemical is 37 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: called die hydrogen monoxide, and it has already been found 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: in nearly every natural environment on Earth, and if we 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: don't ban it soon, there will not be a single 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: patch of the planet left uncontaminated. Now there are million 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: versions of this, but a lot of them will ask 42 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: people to kind of sign on and be like, oh, yeah, 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, we've got to get this thing out of 44 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: our out of our homes and all that. Yeah, because 45 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: it's clearly we're talking about something that's a threat to 46 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: the children, uh, to America, to life as we know it. 47 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: And it's it's funny because when I think about this prank, 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: so obviously the joke is that what it's talking about 49 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: is water. And so it's a joke that works on 50 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: several levels. For one, it's an example of how even 51 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: technically true statements can be extremely misleading without being put 52 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: in the proper context. Uh. And I think it's also 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: just used to sometimes suggest that people should get like 54 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: better education and chemistry and the natural sciences, which sure, 55 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: you know, fair enough, I I also wish I was 56 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: better educated in chemistry. But I think it's on the 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: other side it it does take advantage of something that 58 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: is a totally justified anxiety that people have about chemistry 59 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: in the natural world and especially the modern world, because 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: when we make decisions about deadly risks about physical cause 61 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: and effect, you know, our intuitions and our knowledge about 62 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: how things work are are strongly biased towards perceiving physical 63 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: threats within what you might call like the Newtonian physical domain, 64 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: like threats from big moving objects somewhere between the size 65 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: of a pebble and a landslide. But especially since the 66 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution, the world is also full of chemical threats 67 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: that are really somewhat invisible in this respect, like they 68 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: don't really show up on the Newtonian physical domain. And 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: so we've got some natural defenses against chemical threats like this. 70 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: We've got our senses of taste and smell, and we 71 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: have some aversion reactions in like our digestive system or 72 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: respiration system, like sometimes you detect a noxious chemical and 73 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: you bar for you start coughing or something. Are our 74 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: bodies can can help detect and reject things. But we 75 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: all know by this point that there are in fact 76 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: extremely dangerous chemicals that are essentially undetectable to our senses, 77 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: either because they have no strong smell or taste, or 78 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: the relevant doses are so tiny that we wouldn't notice 79 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: them before it's too late, or because maybe they don't 80 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: have an effect until they've had until you've had extreme 81 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: repeated exposure or consumed lots of chemicals. We're gonna be 82 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: talking about one of the latter today, and so this 83 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: is the kind of compound that we're going to be 84 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: getting into, a chemical that has proven fascinating and very 85 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: useful but also strangely dangerous depending on the context, a 86 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: sort of Dopple gang or of water, the wetness of 87 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: the shadow realm. Today, I wanted to talk about heavy water, 88 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: and it is heavy, literally heavy, But I want to 89 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: want to say this is not to be confused with 90 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: hard water. Uh So, if you're out there, listen, We're 91 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: talking about heavy water, not hard water. Hard water is 92 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: just water with a high mineral content. Oh is that 93 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: what it is? I think I literally didn't know that. Yeah, 94 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: this is the one that, like you know, that can 95 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: can mess with how your soap SuDS up, that sort 96 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: of thing. Okay, uh though some people like it because 97 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: it makes their hair look good, right or at least? Yeah, 98 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's one of those things. I don't 99 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: have a lot of experience with it, or maybe really 100 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: even knowledge of of hard water. So when you brought 101 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: up this topic, I initially thought you were talking about 102 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: doing uh an episode or episodes about hard water, but 103 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: it's not hard water again, heavy water. The washers in 104 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: your shower will really rust after this episode. Alright, So 105 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: for the rest of the episode, we're gonna discuss a 106 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: few things that that we found interesting about heavy water, 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: its role in the natural world and history, and maybe 108 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: the question of whether you should drink it. Um So. 109 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: At the molecular level, as we all know, regular water 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: is made of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. 111 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: It's H two O, and this trifled structure makes for 112 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: a really amazing and powerful polar molecule that acts as 113 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: kind of master solvent that makes life itself possible. Every 114 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: cell in your body depends on the particular chemical properties 115 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: of this molecule. Without H two oh, nothing in the 116 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: organic world works. Now. Heavy water is an alternative form 117 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: of the same molecule, which relies on a different isotope 118 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: of the hydrogen atom, known as deuterium. A normal hydrogen 119 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: atom also known as protium just to distinguish it from deuterium, 120 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: is composed of two sub atomic particles. So it's got 121 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: a nucleus that is just one single proton and nothing 122 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: else that has a positive charge, and then orbiting that 123 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: it's got one single the electron, which has a negative charge. 124 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: Deuterium adds a third element to the mix. It adds 125 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: a single neutron to the nucleus of the hydrogen atom. 126 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: Uh Now again, this makes it an isotope of hydrogen, 127 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: and isotope is a is a version of an atom 128 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: that has a different than usual number of neutrons in 129 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: the nucleus, and a new neutron doesn't have a charge, 130 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: but it does have mass. So an atom of deuterium 131 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: is almost twice as heavy as an atom of ordinary hydrogen. 132 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: Deuterium is a stable isotope, and it is found in nature. 133 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: It's not something that's just a product of the Industrial 134 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: Revolution or of nuclear reactors or something like that. It's 135 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: found all throughout water in the Solar System, it's found 136 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: all throughout Earth's oceans. Roughly one out of every sixty 137 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: hydrogen atoms in the ocean is actually deuterium. So if 138 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: deuterium occurs in nature, you might wonder, well, where does 139 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: it come from? With most other elements, you can trace 140 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: their origin to some form of nucleosynthesis within stars or 141 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: during high energy events like supernova. However, almost all of 142 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: the deuterium found in nature is a leftover product of 143 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: the Big Bang. These atomic nuclei are not generated by stars, 144 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: or when they are, they're usually destroyed soon after they're created. 145 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: They've been the way they are for thirteen point eight 146 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: billion years, and on Earth, one major place to find 147 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: hydrogen is bound up in water molecules. Uh So, in 148 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: most ways, deuterium behaves chemically the same as ordinary hydrogen. 149 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: So deterium gets locked up into water molecules, uh and 150 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: it just floats around there in the ocean. The technical 151 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: name for a water molecule with deuterium in place of 152 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: hydrogen is deuterium oxide or D two oh. So if 153 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: you ever seen D two oh written out, that means 154 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: heavy water water molecule with deuterium instead of regular hydrogen. 155 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: It's also sometimes called deuterated water, but more commonly it's 156 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: just known as heavy water. Now, as I've said, in 157 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: many ways, deuterium behaves just like protium hydrogen, and so 158 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: in many ways heavy water blends in with and behaves 159 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: like regular water. But not in every way. And a 160 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: lot of what we're gonna be doing in this episodes 161 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: is exploring some of the fascinating and historically relevant and 162 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: weird differences between regular water and heavy water. That's right. 163 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: So one good place to start here and that the 164 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: history of the discovery of heavy water is to go 165 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: back to that's when chemists Author Lamb and Richard Lean 166 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: of New York University tried to define the density of 167 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: pure water and they kept getting varying results, which ultimately 168 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: paved the road for the discovery of isotopes that's variant. 169 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: Those are variants of particular chemical elements due to differences 170 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: in neutrons. And then also the discovery of heavy water itself. 171 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: And this is key because because again heavy water isn't 172 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: something that's you know, entirely man made or anything like that. 173 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: It's in water. It just constitutes one part in four thousand, 174 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: five hundred. Yes, that that's correct. Now about that number. 175 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: I was wondering about the ratios here because I saw 176 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: I've seen that that ratio one hundred, and I've also 177 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: seen the ratio of one out of every sixty four 178 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: hundred um like. For example, of the one important publication 179 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: on the evidence for the existence of heavy hydrogen back 180 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: in one which was published in the journal Physical Review, 181 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: was a letter by the American chemist Harold c. Uri 182 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: which pegged deuterium as one out of every hydrogen atoms, 183 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: but I've also seen it published elsewhere that it's it's 184 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: now thought that at least one out of every sixty 185 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: four hundred or I think more more like sixty twenty 186 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: or sixty four fifty water molecules in Earth's ocean are 187 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: heavy water. Um. So, I don't know if those numbers 188 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: represents some kind of conflict, or if one represents a 189 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: genuine difference in what you'd find in the water molecules 190 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: in the ocean versus what you'd find just in hydrogen 191 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: more broadly. I'm not quite sure about that. But the 192 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: point either way is that uh is that deuterium is 193 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 1: found in nature, but only in a in a very 194 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: small proportion of hydrogen, and thus heavy water is found 195 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: in nature, but only in a very small proportion. It's 196 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: one out of thousands of molecules. Yeah, so it's kind 197 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: of like if we had like a cash only society 198 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: and you had some heavy nickels floating, they're right where 199 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: the nickel itself like, it's it's not it's not worth more, 200 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: it's not it's still just worth five cents, And factors 201 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: into the figuring that way. But you can imagine scenarios 202 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: where extra heavy nickels in enough. Uh you know, if 203 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: there are enough of them within a larger amount of nickels, 204 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: that could have an impact on things, etcetera. Or if 205 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: you get into a situation sort of. This will discuss 206 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: where people are like, oh man, these heavy nickels are great, 207 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: I've got to get more of them. Can I like 208 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: syst them out of the existing uh cash population of 209 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: the existing world nickels. Can I make normal nickels into 210 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: heavy nickels, etcetera. That's very good, Yeah, and you could. 211 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: I can imagine you'd run into unfore seen problems if 212 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: you suddenly decided you wanted to base your entire economy 213 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: on heavy nickels, or I don't know, maybe a third 214 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: of your economy. Uh. That'll tie into something we get 215 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: into in a minute. So I mentioned him just a 216 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: minute ago, that the American chemist Harold c Ury. I 217 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: hope I'm saying his name right, you are e y Uh. 218 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: He's a very important figure in the discovery of deuterium. 219 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: He usually gets credit along with his collaborators for proving 220 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: the existence of deuterium through spectroscopic experiments in nineteen thirty one, 221 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: and he received the Nobel Prize for his discovery in 222 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four. But I thought it would be useful 223 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: to just look at a couple of the physical properties 224 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: of heavy water. So one of the key differences between 225 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: heavy water and ordinary water is that heavy water is 226 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,239 Speaker 1: literally heavier because of the extra neutrons in the deuterium. 227 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: You remember, a deuterium atom is almost twice as heavy 228 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: as a regular hydrogen atom. Because of that, D two 229 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: oh is about ten heavier than an equal quantity of 230 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: regular water. And you might wonder, a wait a minute, 231 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: wy only ten percent heavier rather than double the weight. 232 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: We'll remember oxygen with eight protons and eight neutrons, makes 233 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: up the bulk of the mass of a normal water molecule. 234 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: It's got oxygen and then the lighter hydrogen atom. So 235 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: you're only increasing the weight of UH two of the 236 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: three atoms and the two smaller ones in the water molecule. 237 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: So so it's ten percent heavier. And this results in 238 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: some very interesting party trick potential. For example, regular ice 239 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: always floats in water, but with deuterium, if you make 240 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: a heavy water ice cube, it will sink in water 241 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: because it's got a greater density than the surrounding water. Also, 242 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: heavy water is more viscous than regular water. It's a 243 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, it's gonna be a little bit more 244 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: like a like a jelly and maybe not to a 245 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: you know, physically perceptible extent if you were to hold 246 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: it in your hands, but it is more viscous, which 247 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: would probably have measurable effects if say, the oceans were 248 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: entirely made of deuterior m. Yes, and this is this 249 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: is a great question that that had been asked on 250 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: the Internet already. I think it originally showed up in 251 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: a as a Cora question. Uh, what would the ocean 252 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: be like if it was made out of heavy water? 253 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: And uh, and is sometimes the case on Cora. You 254 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: had a really insightful answer pop up, this one from 255 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: Josh Velson, chemical engineering consultant for bio and petro chemicals. 256 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: And it was such a neat answer that it was 257 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: actually featured on Slate as well. Uh, so I recommend 258 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: checking that out. But but I want to touch on 259 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: some of the main points that Nelson makes, and I 260 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: want to stress this would be if there was a 261 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: magical instant change, you know, like snap your fingers. Now, 262 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: our oceans are just all heavy water, so it's not 263 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: a realistic scenario, but it's one of those thought experiment 264 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: scenarios that I think helps to underline what we're talking 265 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: about here with heavy water and how it affects it 266 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: would affect, you know, various systems. So, first of all, 267 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: since any given portion of the water uh out there 268 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: in the oceans would be ten point six percent heavier, 269 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: Velson says that anything swimming outside of its pressure zone 270 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: would basically be instantly crushed. Now we've discussed on the 271 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: show before. However, you take certain deep sea organisms and 272 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: you bring them up into shallower waters, you have some 273 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: exploding effects that take place. And likewise, if you take 274 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: something from shallower waters and plunge it down into the depths, 275 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: there can be a crushing scenario. But this just means 276 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: everything that these sort of things would be uh far 277 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: more exaggerated. Yeah, I didn't even consider this, But so 278 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: if the ocean is suddenly about ten percent heavier at 279 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: the molecular level, the pressure at the bottom of the 280 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: ocean would also be a lot higher. So so you're 281 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: suddenly down there and it's like somebody's just like put 282 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: an extra backpack on you. Yeah. Absolutely. Also, Velson says 283 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: that everything floating in the ocean would displace more mass, 284 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: so ships would need extra ballast to stay at the 285 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: same level in a heavy water ocean. And then this 286 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: is interesting, Velson writes, quote a large portion of the 287 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: oceans would freeze instantly due to a higher freezing point. 288 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: This would release a lot of heat into the atmosphere 289 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: in the polar regions, causing a massive imbalance and resulting 290 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: in some pretty spectacular polar cyclones unquote. Well, and then 291 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: on top of this, the mass of the planet would change. 292 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: This would alter the Moon's orbit, and basically it would 293 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: just mess with weather and climate in a major way, 294 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: resulting in earthquakes, tidal way, it's rising sea levels. But 295 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: of course, to change the ocean is to change life 296 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: as well. So we'll come back to this, and I'll 297 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: come back to Nelson's points in a bit, all right, So, 298 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: I know what you out there are already wondering, Should 299 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: I drink it heavy water? Should I should? I? You know, 300 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: get a big bucket of it and just gulp, gulp, gulp. 301 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: It sounds like the the ultimate metal head like bottled water, right, 302 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: heavy water. Oh yeah, they would sell it at the 303 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: metal shows. That's really good. So there's actually a great 304 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: article about the history of drinking heavy water in the 305 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: journal Nature Chemistry by the American chemist Michelle Francel. We 306 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: actually quoted a piece by her, uh at some point 307 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: in the past year, because she wrote a thing that 308 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: we did for Cupid's leadon narrow That was it. She 309 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: wrote an article about the history of sugar of lead 310 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: as it was used in ancient Rome. That was really good. 311 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: But this piece is called the Weight of Water. So 312 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: it was published in Nature Chemistry in twenty nineteen. So 313 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: she begins the story in nineteen thirteen talking about when 314 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: the Hungarian chemist George to Heavish was visiting the lab 315 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: of Ernest Rutherford in Manchester, England. Now, eventually both of 316 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: these scientists would have Nobel Prizes for their discoveries, but 317 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: at this point Rutherford was the was the senior scientist, 318 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: and Heavis she was more of a young student, you know. 319 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: He was still learned in the ropes. And Rutherford had 320 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: given Heavish a task here. He wanted to get him 321 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: to take quantity of lead and find a way to 322 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: chemically isolate all of the radioactive atoms of what was 323 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: then known as radium D from the lead and this sample, 324 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: and he Is she was unable to find a way 325 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: to do this because what they were calling radium D 326 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: was actually not radium but a radioactive isotope of lead 327 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: that is now known as lead to tin. But in 328 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: the process of working on this problem that he never 329 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: ended up solving, he Is she realized a potentially very 330 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: interesting implication of this failure. When a sample contains a radioisotope, 331 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: a radioactive atom within a massive other atoms, you can 332 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: use these radioactive atoms to track the movement of a 333 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: chemical through a biological system. So, for example, if you're 334 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: curious how lead in the soil is taken up by 335 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: bean plants and then distributed around the plant's body, you 336 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: can spike the soil with radioactive isotopes of lead, so 337 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: the plant will take them up. Because they're still lead, 338 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: it will treat him the way it normally treats lead. 339 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: But because they're radioactive they're radioisotopes, you can track what 340 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: the plant is doing them with them. You can use 341 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: equipment to track exactly how these isotopes are metabolized through 342 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: the roots. The stem the leaves. Uh. And you can 343 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: also use these radioactive tracers to track the absorption and 344 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: elimination of elements in animal bodies. So you could find out, well, 345 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: when when somebody ingests lead, does the body immediately purge 346 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: it or does the lead stick around? How long does 347 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: it take the body to purge it? Where does it 348 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: go in the body? And it turns out you can 349 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: use radioactive tracers to find out lots of things about 350 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: what's going on in the body, not just in basic 351 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: biological research, but actually in medicine. Radioactive tracers are used 352 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: in medicine all the time. Now Here, I wanted to 353 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: mention a couple of anecdotes that came across about Heavishet 354 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: that are really interesting. He seems like a kind of 355 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: mythic hero in a way, a sort of Romulus or 356 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: Gilgamesh here, or maybe we should say Bill Gamesh, Uh 357 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: Bill Gamesh to heav is she? So there were a 358 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: couple of the most popular stories about his life that 359 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: that I I couldn't pass up mentioning. The first one 360 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: I found recounted in a short historical article in the 361 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: Journal of Nuclear Cardiology, and it concerns how heavy she 362 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: first demonstrated that tracer principle that I was just talking about. 363 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: So this is by Strauss at all uh from and 364 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: the authors here talk about while heav is she was 365 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: working in Manchester in this lab in the early nineteen tens. 366 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: He was living at a boarding house that had been 367 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: recommended to him by Rutherford by the way. So his 368 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: boss is like, hey live in this place, and apparently 369 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: it was just miserable there, heavs. She started noticing that 370 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: he didn't just hate his lodgings, he really hated the 371 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: food at his boarding house. He had a sensitive stomach, 372 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: he suffered from indigestion, and he started to suspect something 373 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: was going on. What he thought was happening was that, uh, 374 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: now this is an old school boy earning house, right, 375 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: so they give you not just a bed, but a 376 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: bed and your daily meals. And he started to suspect 377 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: that his landlady was recycling food. So you know, she 378 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: makes you a great r bee frost and then you 379 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 1: eat a little bit of it and you don't finish it. 380 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: There's some still on your plate. He is. She suspected 381 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: that the landlady was just taking whatever you couldn't finish 382 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: off of your plate and then taking it back to 383 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: the kitchen and then mixing it up and serving it 384 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: again in some disguised form the next day. Well, that's 385 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: just being a good mom. You know. You can appreciate, 386 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, of refraining from food waste here, But he 387 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: is she was not happy with it, because I think 388 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: the problem was the beef was already suffering from freshness 389 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: problems and was was being recycled to the point of 390 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: possible food poisoning. So at some point, uh he called. 391 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: He brought this up with his landlady to read from 392 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: the article here quote. His suggestion that she served slee 393 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: prepared meat more than once a week was met with indignation. 394 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: How could he, she insisted, accuse her of serving anything 395 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: but the freshest of ingredients. Uh, so have is? She 396 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: decided to put this claim to the test using a 397 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: really amazing method, in fact, using some of the exact 398 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: same techniques that he had just been discovering recently in 399 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: Rutherford's lab that we were just talking about. So one Sunday, 400 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: when he she had eaten as much as he could, 401 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: he secretly spiked the food left on his plate with 402 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: a number of radioactive isotopes, and I'm just going to 403 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: read from the article here quote. A few days later, 404 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: the electroscope he smuggled into the dining room revealed the 405 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: presence of the tracer, radioactive hash. Confronted with the irrefutable evidence, 406 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: all the landlady could do was exclaimed, this is magic. 407 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: The first radio tracer investigation had successfully followed leftover meat 408 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: from the Sunday meal to the kitchen meat grinder, into 409 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: the hashpot, and back into the dining room table. So 410 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: when in doubt, you know, spike your food with radio isotopes. Truly, 411 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: this is one of the great adventures in science right here. 412 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: There's actually a much higher stakes one though. Uh. That's 413 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: the story about Heaves. She's life from World War two. So, uh, 414 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: there's a there's a great NPR piece about this from 415 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven by Robert Cruel, which that I'm relying 416 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: on here. I can't say the title or it will 417 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: ruin the story, but it goes like this. So in 418 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen forty, Heaves she was working at 419 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: an institute in Copenhagen, in the laboratory of the great 420 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: physicist Niels Bore Uh Denmark had been invaded by the 421 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: Nazis earlier that year. I think that was in April 422 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty, and it was now occupied with German 423 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: troops raiding homes and marching in the streets. And they 424 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: just arrived in Copenhagen later in the summer when the 425 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: story takes place. So at the time, Nils Bore is 426 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: in possession of two gold medals. They are Nobel prizes 427 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: in fact, which are made of twenty three carrot gold, 428 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: but they're not his. They belonged to two German physicists, 429 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: Max von Laua and James Frank, who were both at 430 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: risk within Germany. Frank himself was Jewish and von Laua 431 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: was not, but he was known for his very fierce 432 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: opposition to the Nazi Party. Now they had sent their 433 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: Nobel medals secretly to Boor's Institute for safe keeping. But 434 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: here we're faced with a problem. At the time, Germany 435 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 1: was at war and it was actually illegal to remove 436 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: gold from the country. So by sending their gold medals 437 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: to Boor's lab, Frank and von Laua had committed what 438 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: would probably be a capital offense back home, and worse, 439 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: it couldn't really be covered up because their names were 440 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: engraved on the gold medals. So Boor and his colleagues 441 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: were thinking, oh no, if if our institute is raided 442 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: and uh, it probably will be Born knew his lab 443 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: would be searched because it was known to be a 444 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: safe haven for Jewish scientists and and other people opposed 445 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: to the no Zis who were fleeing fleeing the Nazis. 446 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: They had come to his institute and now they were occupied. 447 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: Um so Bore realized they had to do something to 448 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: hide these medals because if they were discovered, you know, 449 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: these scientists back in Germany would probably be put to death. 450 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: So Boor and his colleague at the time, Heavish, discussed 451 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: their options. They thought about maybe we could bury it, 452 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: bury it in the gardens, but they worried that the 453 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: Nazis would dig all over the grounds and probably find them. 454 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: And then heavs she came up with an amazing solution, 455 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: uh literally, a solution dissolve the metals. This was not easy, 456 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: since gold is not very reactive. It's difficult to dissolve 457 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: but heavy she knew that there was a solution that 458 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: would do the trick known as aqua reggia which is 459 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid and a 460 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: three to one ratio usually. So here I just want 461 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: to read from the NPR piece. Heavish and his autobiography says, 462 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: because gold is quote exceedingly unreactive and difficult to dissolve, 463 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: it was slow going, but as the minutes ticked down, 464 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: both medals were reduced to a colorless solution that turned 465 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: faintly peach and then bright orange. By the time the 466 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: Nazis arrived, both awards had liquefied inside a flask that 467 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: was then stashed on a high laboratory shelf. Then, says 468 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: science writer and Radio Lab contributor Sam Keene in his 469 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: book The Disappearing Spoon, quote, when the Nazis ransacked Boars Institute, 470 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: they scoured the building for loot or evidence of wrongdoing, 471 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: but left the beaker of orange Aqua regia untouched. Heavy 472 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: she was forced to flee to Stockholm in nineteen forty three, 473 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: but when he returned to his battered laboratory on v Day, 474 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: he found the innocuous beaker undisturbed on a shelf. And 475 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: there's a codage of the story that's pretty interesting. So 476 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: after the war was over. Heavy She again used chemistry 477 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: to re extract the same gold from the beakers, had 478 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: that sent to Stockholm, where it was reformed into new 479 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: medals that were again presented to the original recipients. Interesting, 480 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean, kind of unnecessary. I guess that the same 481 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: gold to actually go back to create the you know, 482 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: the the same awards, but still neat for it's got 483 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: that magic thing. You know, people always want to like 484 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: melt down a symbol of one thing and turn it 485 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: into another. I guess in this case, it was melting 486 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: down a symbol of one thing and turning it back 487 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: into itself, but still has some of the same kind 488 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: of symbolic weight there. Yeah, there's kind of a you know, 489 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: sitcom level um circular motion to the whole thing. Right, 490 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: we come back at the end of the day, we 491 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: still have the same awards again, they've been reformed into 492 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: the same thing we're familiar with. Yeah, totally. But coming 493 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: back from from those anecdotes so so so now we've 494 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: got an idea of heaves She the character he as 495 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: She the mythic hero, his life actually also ties into 496 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: heavy Water. So there was one day in Manchester in 497 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: the early nineteen tens where Heavy she was having a 498 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: cup of tea with the English physicist Henry Moseley, and 499 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: at the time Heavy she was pursuing his radioactive tracer 500 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: experiments with plants, the ones that I was talking about earlier, 501 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: like the plants and seeing how they take up lead 502 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: and and all that. Uh So, the idea was again 503 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: that you could learn how elements from the soil are 504 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: metabolized in plant bodies by studying this with with radioactive tracers. 505 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: And apparently Heavy she and Moseley, we're getting all riled 506 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: up about this idea, and heavs She posed a question 507 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: about whether it would be possible to ever mark the 508 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: water molecules in a cup of tea with some kind 509 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: of tracer that could track those molecules throughout the human body. 510 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: And at the time they did not know of a 511 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: way to do this with water molecules. But a couple 512 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: of decades later, chemistry would come around with an answer 513 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: in the form of discoveries by Harold Yuri, which we 514 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: talked about previously, of heavy water. So not long after 515 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: the existence of heavy water based on deuterium was confirmed 516 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: in the lab, a number of world class scientists decided well, 517 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: to hell with it, you know, let's let's put it 518 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: in our mouths and see what happens. Was it was 519 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: a different time of experimental regimes. And it's also funny 520 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: because if you read the scientific papers of the time, 521 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: often they're just like a paragraph long. They're just like, 522 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: here's what we did, here's what it tasted like. Nobody died. 523 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: So in the year ninety four, Herald Ury sent George 524 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: to heavs She a sample of water that had been 525 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: enriched to zero point five percent utterations. Remember, five percent 526 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: of this water is still the regular stuff, but this 527 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: would nevertheless represent a much higher concentration of heavy water 528 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: than a normal glass, right, And that percentage is worth 529 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: keeping in mind for later when we're talking about higher 530 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: percentages in the human body. Right. So he is She 531 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: and his assistant Eric Hawford decided to test the effects 532 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: of a deuterium enriched aquatic environment on goldfish. So they 533 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: took twenty small goldfish and immerse them temporarily but for 534 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: steadily increasing periods of time in the deuterated water. Uh 535 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: And so, to read from francel here quote, the overcrowded 536 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: goldfish rapidly exchanged water with the deutorated water in the bowl, 537 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: which became miserably less dense, noting no change in the 538 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: behavior of the zero point two percent deutorated goldfish, though 539 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: how this might be assessed with so many goldfish stuffed 540 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: into a small glass for up to fifteen hours at 541 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: a time is unclear. Heavy She apparently concluded it was 542 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: safe to drink the heavy water and proceeded to run 543 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: the experiment he described Mosley twenty years before. So the 544 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: rationale here is, Okay, it seems good enough for a goldfish, 545 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: good enough for me, I'm going to try it too well. 546 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: But I like that France Will brings up again, Like 547 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: it's not exactly clear how they were judging what the 548 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: effects on goldfish were, given that they were like cramming 549 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: lots of goldfish in a very small container of water. 550 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: I guess they observed that the goldfish were not dead, right, 551 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're looking for them to like die 552 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: instantly or explode or something. Yeah, So it's not clear 553 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: exactly whether heavy She or Hoeford did the drinking, but 554 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: one of them did, and they consumed a couple of 555 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: the samples. They collected the heavy water from the drinker's urine, 556 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: distilled it and measured its density, and about twenty minutes 557 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: after the chugging deudated water started showing up in the 558 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: urine and In this experiment heavy She and Hoverer found 559 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: that the average molecule of swallowed water lingers in a 560 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: human body a lot longer than it lingers in goldfish 561 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: and humans. The metabolic half life of a dose of 562 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: water is about nine days according to this test at least. 563 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: But the big question I guess is were they okay? Well, 564 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: if not, they didn't report anything. There was no sickness, 565 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: also no notes about what the water tasted like. So 566 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: after heavys She and Hofer published their paper on deuterium 567 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: as a tracer for water and animal bodies, another professor 568 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: decided to follow up by by addressing the question of 569 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: toxicity head on. Now, obviously, whichever one of the the 570 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: h is drank the heavy water was all right, But 571 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: this wasn't an extremely deluded form was a small amount 572 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: of it. A professor named Klaus Hanson of Oslo University 573 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: performed a toxicity test on himself in front of an 574 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: audience including the press and a bunch of medical professionals 575 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: with equipment standing by like stomach pumps and stuff, and 576 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: Hanson swallowed what Francill characterizes as a quote scant teaspoonful 577 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: of heavy water. Now it turned out the life support 578 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: equipment was not needed. Hansen was fine, though he did 579 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: report what he called a dry burning sensation after swallowing um. 580 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: And then Harold c Uri at Columbia University and his 581 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: colleague Geno Faila decided to follow up on this by 582 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: staging a blind taste test. So this is gonna be 583 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: like the Pepsi challenge, but for juteri um uh. And 584 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: they published the results in nineteen thirty five in a 585 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: paper called Concerning the Taste of Heavy Water. As I mentioned, 586 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: sometimes papers were very short back then, so I can 587 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: actually just read the entire second paragraph of their paper 588 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: here Tasting notes for heavy water. Right, Okay, so here's 589 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: what they said. In order to make the experiment as 590 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: objective as possible, a third person in a different room 591 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: prepared the samples to be tasted. Each of us was 592 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: then given two identical watch glasses, one containing one cubic 593 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: centimeter of ordinary distilled water and the other the same 594 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: amount of pure heavy water, especially prepared for biological experiments. 595 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: One of us kept each sample in his mouth for 596 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: a short time to make sure of its taste, then 597 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: spat it out. The other repeated the same procedure, but 598 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: swallowed the water. Neither of us could detect the slightest 599 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: difference between the taste of ordinary distilled water and the 600 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: taste of pure heavy water. It might be mentioned in 601 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: this connection that one cubic centimeter of water is not 602 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: too small an amount to taste properly. Since both of 603 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: us could detect plainly the characteristic flat taste of distilled 604 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: water in both cases, it may be concluded therefore, that 605 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: pure deuterium oxide has the same taste as ordinary distilled water. UM. Now, 606 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: this is funny because I've read some more recent studies. 607 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: I think one that was that I found in a 608 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: preprint server that has not been published yet that claims 609 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: that they've redone this taste test and decided that that 610 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: heavy water is noticeably sweeter. So they're disagreeing with Uri 611 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: and Fila here. I'm not sure how to sort that out. 612 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: But one of the things about these taste tests that 613 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: Francill points out is that they were ridiculously expensive because 614 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: at the time, the scant teaspoonful of heavy water that 615 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: Klaus Hansen swallowed probably cost the equivalent of about a 616 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars in current US dollars. Uh. So, I 617 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: don't know if that's a good use of experimental resources. Uh, 618 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: it's probably It's probably not surprising that Urie found these 619 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: human experiments wasteful, even though he did one. After all, 620 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: So like, if a scant teaspoonful is a hundred thousand 621 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: dollars worth of product, you know, and a teaspoonful water 622 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: is a vanishingly small sample compared to how much water 623 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: is in an adult human body, it's probably just gonna 624 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: be prohibited of ly expensive to do toxicity experiments on 625 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: a human being with with this stuff. Yeah, I mean 626 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: this seems even above and beyond iracous prices for water, right, 627 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean this is crazy, Yeah, exactly. You make yourself 628 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: a heavy water still suit, don't don't lose a drop. 629 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: So if you were trying to understand the physiological effects 630 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: of heavy water at scale, you would need to test 631 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: it on a much smaller organism. And eventually some research 632 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: of this was carried out to figure out exactly what 633 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: deuterated water does to plant and animal bodies that the 634 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: more research of this kind was done throughout the twentieth century. 635 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: A study in nineteen thirty six by Henry Barber and 636 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: Jane Trace found that heavy water was in fact quite 637 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: lethal if it could replace about of the water in 638 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: in the body. And I think this was determined with 639 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: with small mammals like mice um and this is sometimes 640 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: shorthanded to about one third. There there are various percentages 641 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: that are given, but basically you do not want one 642 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: third to you know, half of your body water replaced 643 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: by deuterated water. This creates immense problems. Um replacement of 644 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: ordinary water with heavy water seems to kill the mammalian 645 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: body once you pass certain thresholds by primarily interfering with 646 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: mitosis or cell division, and in this way its effects 647 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: are strangely similar to what you would see with large 648 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: doses of chemotherapy. Metabolism slows down and cells stop dividing 649 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: and reproducing, and this can lead to of course sterility 650 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: and in the reproductive system, but also interior degradation of 651 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: the function of multiple organs throughout the body and a 652 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: kind of cytotoxic collapse before death. UH the chemical principle 653 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: that's responsible for this is known as the kinetic isotope effect, 654 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: so I'll try to do the simple version as best 655 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: to understand it. Again, deuterium is chemically pretty much the 656 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: same as regular hydrogen. It's got the same charge, the 657 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: same proton and electron, but because of the heavier nucleus um, 658 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: even though it will usually engage in the same chemical reactions, 659 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: there is a tendency for the changes in the isotopic 660 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: composition to affect the rate of chemical reactions. So even 661 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: though dto O is chemically a lot like regular H 662 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: two oh, it's heavy hydrogen forms stronger bonds with the 663 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: oxygen atoms in the water molecules than regular protium does, 664 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: and this means it's harder than usual to break up 665 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 1: heavy water molecules into their constituent parts, which in turn 666 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: means lots of chemical reactions happen more slowly, and this 667 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: starts to consistently slow down chemical reactions throughout the body 668 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: if you replace too much of the water in your 669 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: body with D two oh. If there's too much of 670 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: it and chemical reactions get slowed down too much, all 671 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: hell breaks loose cells don't divide, and there there's a 672 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: kind of there are kinds of systemic collapse that that 673 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: just come from this. So heavy water makes for a 674 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: very strange, a peculiar type of poison. You know, from 675 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: everything I've been reading, it's something that is usually harmless 676 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: at doses of even probably a glassful. But if you 677 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: can really load somebody up with heavy water to the 678 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: extent that it replaces somewhere between twenty five and of 679 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: the water in their body, it will absolutely kill them 680 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,439 Speaker 1: in a horrific way. It is a ridiculously expensive way 681 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: to try and assassinate somebody, So I'm I'm kind of 682 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: shocked it hasn't been done in a James Bond film. 683 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: This seems perfect for the Bond world. That's a very 684 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: good point. Now, I think heavy water is not going 685 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: to be nearly as expensive as it was when those 686 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: first taste test experiments were done, but still, I mean, yeah, 687 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: it would be. It would be a needlessly elaborate method 688 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: of assassination. I mean, surely one of those c s 689 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: I shows considered it at some point. Maybe they did it. 690 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd I'd love to hear from anybody if 691 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: if they if you have seen a heavy water murder 692 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: episode of some sort of episodic detective show. I'd like 693 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: to hear about it. Well, this does tie into one 694 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 1: particular example that Francile Sites in her article. Uh that 695 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: no one was killed fortunately in this example, but there 696 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: was an instance of of heavy water poisoning. Though the 697 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: heavy water turns out to be not necessarily the the 698 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: important part of the story. So there was an Associated 699 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: Press article from March five Francile Sites, and I went 700 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 1: and looked up the original article. It's called power plant 701 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: worker accused of spiking cooler with radioactive water. This happened 702 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: in in Canada, so it's a dateline New Brunswick. And uh, 703 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: just to read the lead here quote a nuclear power 704 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: plant worker was charged Monday with spiking a lunch room 705 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: cooler with radioactive water that eight men drank before the 706 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: contamination was discovered. The eight who drank the contaminated water 707 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: last month that the point Lapro plant have have a 708 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: slightly higher chance of getting cancer, officials said, but are 709 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: in no immediate health danger. Uh. And the article goes 710 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: on to characterize this is probably some kind of practical 711 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 1: oak gone awry. Does not seem like a very good joke. Again, 712 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: no one died immediately from this, though, the person who 713 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: spiked the water was charged with a crime. Uh. And 714 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: this does tie into an interesting misconception, which is that 715 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,839 Speaker 1: heavy water is naturally radioactive and heavy water it's not. 716 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: Deuterated water is not naturally radioactive unless it's been made 717 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: radioactive by, say by for example, like being the cool 718 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: and around a nuclear reactor. UM. Now, water with hydrogen three, 719 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: remember heavy water is the kind we've been talking about, 720 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: is with hydrogen two. Deuterium water with hydrogen three, also 721 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: known as tritium, would be another story. It is definitely 722 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: radioactive in all its forms, but far far less common 723 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,439 Speaker 1: in nature. So if you were to drink heavy water, 724 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: it would not naturally be a radioactivity risk. It would 725 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: be this poisoning risk if you drank enough of it 726 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: and it replaced enough of the water in your body. Right. 727 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: And and that kind of brings us back to that 728 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: Velson q and A that was published in Slate that 729 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. You know, you instantly replaced the world's 730 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: oceans with heavy water, where you have these immediate concerns. 731 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: But then obviously that water is going to make its 732 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 1: way into organisms, and so Velson writes, you know that basically, 733 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: the biological concerns here would start out UH milder. You know, 734 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: it would be more about bloat and weight, lower blood pressure. 735 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: But by the time you reached like the tent heavy 736 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: water mark in particularly in humans, we would be just 737 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: irreversibly sterile. And then certainly by the time you hit 738 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: that fifty percent point, I mean, that's that's definitely in 739 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: the fatal zone. UH. So you know, Velson writes that, 740 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: you know that heavy water makes UH eukaryotic cell division 741 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: impossible due to the impact on the my mitotic spindle, 742 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: so most multicellular eukaryotic life would just snuff it extinct 743 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: within a few years. Yeah, I was looking at some 744 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: some possible exceptions. There are interestingly, UH organisms that are 745 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: heavy water tolerant, or much more heavy water tolerant than 746 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: other organisms. So prokaryotes, I think, in general, are more 747 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: tolerant of of being exposed to deutorated water than eukaryotes are. 748 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: Bacteria are going to be better off, and maybe they 749 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: could just like you know, re evolve new complex life 750 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: forms in the UH in the deutorated world. I wonder 751 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: if they would be like slower moving life forms because 752 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: the deutorated earth would just like have slower chemical reactions 753 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: in general. Well, you know, I did a lot. I 754 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: was thinking the same things. I was looking around a 755 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: lot to find some examples that are, you know, some 756 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: sci fi visions of what heavy water organisms might consist of, 757 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: and and I was not able to find anything. But 758 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: I did find some some stuff about the idea of 759 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: of of heavy water organisms that have would have would 760 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: be cultivated for their use in magnetic resonant studies. And 761 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: these were proposed back in the late nineteen sixties. These 762 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: would again be cultivated versions of natural world world organism 763 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: is that um in their heavy form would not be 764 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: found anywhere in the natural world, so as proposed by 765 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: Cats and Crespy in us in the journal Science back 766 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six. There various uses and products one 767 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: could derive from their cultivation. Higher plants and even simple 768 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: organisms like you mentioned can resist full deuteration, but there 769 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: are possibilities for other life forms. So so some of 770 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: the main benefits here would be their use in studying 771 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: UH heavy water isotopes, you know, following the path of 772 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 1: hydrogen in biological systems. UH deuterated algae, for instance, which 773 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: we've had since the nineteen sixties have a useful role 774 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: in the study of photosynthesis. But um, yeah, I wish 775 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: I could have found something about like the idea of 776 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: the deuterated man heavy water, heavy water elephants or something 777 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: like that, But I didn't find anything. That's how we 778 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: get Middle Earth's sort of a chemical recycling event and 779 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: and and ended up there. Um. I did find one 780 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: example that I was looking at. Apparently there's some kind 781 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: of nematode worm that can survive and reproduce in almost pure, 782 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: pure deuterated water. Interesting, there's always a worm. That should 783 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: be a slogan of this show. You know, whatever you're 784 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: saying about biology, it's like it's true in most cases, 785 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 1: but there's always a worm. Thank you, thank you. Thank 786 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: Now there's another way that heavy water has been very important, 787 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: and that's in the history and development of nuclear technology, 788 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: and um, in developing nuclear reactors and in the history 789 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: of the development of nuclear weapons. Yeah, this is all interesting, 790 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: you know, looking at the twentieth century certainly a time 791 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: in which our understanding of chemistry greatly evolved, and then 792 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: of course we began to understand uh nuclear fission as well, 793 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: and scientists around this time, so nuclear fission. Uh. This 794 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,319 Speaker 1: was a discovered in December of night. Around this time, 795 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: scientists began to realize that heavy water could be as 796 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: what is called a moderator. So in nuclear reactors, a 797 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: moderator slows down the neutrons to speeds at which fission 798 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: can occur. Uh. It helps to create the conditions in 799 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: which a true fission chain reaction can occur and keep going. 800 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: So a nuclear reactor using heavy water can make use 801 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: of naturally occurring uranium rather than enriched in ranium, because again, 802 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: you can't just kick a bunch of naturally occurring uranium 803 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,240 Speaker 1: and produce an atomic blast. So basically, scientists in Germany 804 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: and in the UK they realized kind of early on 805 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: what heavy water could potentially do. Now, an interesting wrinkle 806 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: here is that the US atomic weapons program ended up 807 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: depending far more on graphite as a moderator than heavy water. 808 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: But the Germans came to believe that graphite wouldn't cut it, 809 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,319 Speaker 1: so they focused on heavy water. UM. Heavy water was 810 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: obtained by um electrolysis, and a leading facility producing it 811 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: was norways of the more facility, So the French and 812 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: the Germans both attempted to buy the entire stock. I 813 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,720 Speaker 1: think the Germans had purchased some, but then there uh 814 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: for the French and the Germans both were like, we 815 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: want to buy it all, and aware of the military possibilities, Norway, 816 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: which was at that point neutral, sold it all to 817 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: France and and it was smuggled out of the country. 818 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: In that same year, however, the Germans took Norway and 819 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,959 Speaker 1: the plant became a military target for the Allies because, 820 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,880 Speaker 1: of course, the whole situation here is it suspected that 821 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: Germany is working on creating an atomic weapon, right, and 822 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,879 Speaker 1: so the idea and they didn't know exactly how things 823 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,319 Speaker 1: would shake out, but it looked at the time like 824 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,280 Speaker 1: heavy water might be a really crucial element in achieving 825 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, right, and so there was obvious like terror 826 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: among the Allies that like, oh no, if they get 827 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: their hands on too much heavy water, they could build 828 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: a nuclear reactor that could potentially lead to weapons capabilities 829 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 1: or whatever before we achieved them. So it's again it's 830 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,359 Speaker 1: a one ring scenario. It's like, you know, give us 831 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: the weapon of the enemy, don't let them have it, right, Yeah, So, 832 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: as a result, this facility was targeted five different times 833 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,919 Speaker 1: UM by the Norwegian Special Forces, by the r a F, 834 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: by the British Army, by the US Air Force, and 835 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: by the Norwegian Resistance. And these were efforts again to 836 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: try and prevent the Germans from developing an atomic weapon UM. 837 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: Operation Gunner's Side was a particular note. In this one, 838 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 1: four Norwegian agents parachuted into the area. They joined up 839 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: with four special agents of Special Forces agents that had 840 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,399 Speaker 1: been deployed earlier on a recon miss mission, and they 841 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 1: all attacked the plant, destroying the heavy water section of 842 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,000 Speaker 1: the plant and costing the Germans something like fives of 843 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: heavy water. I think these missions had no casualties. Also, well, 844 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 1: these two missions that have mentioned here had no casualties. 845 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,760 Speaker 1: There was one of the attempts UM ended up involving 846 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: a plane crash and the the agents involved were executed 847 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,319 Speaker 1: by the Germans. But but this particular mission, I think, yeah, 848 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,359 Speaker 1: you're correct on UM. Now it would ultimately turn out 849 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: that the Germans were not nearly as close as suspected UM. 850 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: But this certainly put a dent in their efforts. Basically, 851 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,240 Speaker 1: the immediate demands of the war, combined with the efforts 852 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,360 Speaker 1: by a resistance and special Forces here basically kept the 853 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: nuclear program of the of Germany in a kind of 854 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: preliminary stage. But of course the Allies did not know this. 855 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: They just they just knew that some effort was underway 856 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: and it needed to be curved. Now, in more recent years, 857 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,279 Speaker 1: there are all kinds of interesting uses that have been 858 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: discovered for deuterium and UH and heavy water that might 859 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 1: not have even been imagined early on, or maybe some 860 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: of which were imagined early on, but nobody knew if 861 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: they would ever be achieved. One of the examples that 862 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 1: I was just recently looking at is this interesting idea 863 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: of deuterated drugs, apparently the first one of which was 864 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 1: approved by the f d A in seventeen, but it's 865 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: an idea that's been around for a long time. Yeah, 866 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,880 Speaker 1: I think the first patent was granted back in the 867 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,840 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. Um, so yeah, it's interesting. Now, before anyone 868 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 1: assumes this has anything to do with turning your water 869 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: heavy or any sort of thing, the basic idea of 870 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: these UH deuterated drugs is that the resulting drug has 871 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 1: a longer half life due to lower rates of metabolism. 872 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,399 Speaker 1: So half life when we're talking about medication. It's it's 873 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,359 Speaker 1: the point at which it loses fifty of its effectiveness 874 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: inside your body. So this isn't related to say shelf life. Uh, 875 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,759 Speaker 1: it's about how the drug functions in the body itself, right, 876 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: so it can like act more slowly over a longer 877 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: period of time. Yeah. Um, And it's funny because we've 878 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: talked about several different ways now. Essentially one of the 879 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,760 Speaker 1: ways that delorated water will kill you if you drink 880 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: too much of it is it slows down metabolism and 881 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: chemical reactions cell division in your body to a point 882 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:59,279 Speaker 1: where you can't survive anymore. But there are more moderated 883 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: forms of consuming heavy water that people have long speculated, 884 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: whether rightly or not. I mean, there is still an 885 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: open question as to whether there's anything to these ideas, 886 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: but have speculated that, well, maybe you could use this 887 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 1: to slow down chemical reactions in the body in a 888 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,799 Speaker 1: good way, in a way that's actually desirable, such as 889 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: in life extension or you know, human hibernation or things 890 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,560 Speaker 1: like that. So I wanted to read apart from in 891 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,960 Speaker 1: Francel's article where she says, quote Mounta banks have been 892 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: promoting heavy water as a panacea almost since the moment 893 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: you're re isolated the first sample. Even imminent chemists have 894 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: not been immune. In a nineteen thirty seven Popular Science article, 895 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: Chemiss James Kendall opined that the elderly might extend their 896 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,280 Speaker 1: lives by drinking heavy water. Quote the heavy water drinkers 897 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,720 Speaker 1: reactions would probably be slowed and possibly his mental processes also. 898 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: But who wants to be fast at sixty Well, I mean, 899 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: I guess you know sixty was there's a different sixty seven, 900 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:07,399 Speaker 1: I guess. But so the idea here is just don't 901 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,799 Speaker 1: drink too much of it, Drink a balance of it, 902 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,760 Speaker 1: and you'll be okay. It's kind of a never finish 903 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,839 Speaker 1: your second drink approach to life. Yes, now, I want 904 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,720 Speaker 1: to be extremely clear, we are not advocating that anyone 905 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,439 Speaker 1: do this, nor claiming that this would be effective. But 906 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: it is something that people have continued to speculate about. 907 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: So that one article that Francial references in her article 908 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,560 Speaker 1: is by A. Zion Lee and Michael P. Snyder and 909 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 1: bio essays in that is a it's a speculative article 910 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,400 Speaker 1: that explores this question. It's called quote can heavy isotopes 911 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,960 Speaker 1: increased lifespan studies of relative abundance and various organisms reveal 912 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,360 Speaker 1: chemical perspectives on aging. Now they sit again some of 913 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: the same stuff we've been talking about, the the chemistry 914 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 1: of the kinetic isotope effects which slow down chemical reactions, 915 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: and this sort of slows down all kinds of processes 916 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,959 Speaker 1: that happened in the body that are in a way 917 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: that they are metabolic processes that are associated with the 918 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,360 Speaker 1: advancing of age. And so the authors here right quote 919 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,840 Speaker 1: previous isotope analyses have recorded pervasive enrichment or depletion of 920 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: heavy isotopes in various organisms, strongly supporting the capability of 921 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: biological systems to distinguish different isotopes. This capability has recently 922 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: been found to lead to general decline of heavy isotopes 923 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: in metabolites during yeast aging. Conversely, supplementing heavy isotopes and 924 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,800 Speaker 1: growth medium promotes longevity. Whether this observation prevails in other 925 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: organisms is not known, but it potentially bears promise in 926 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: promoting human longevity. So some of the ideas explored here. 927 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,760 Speaker 1: The implications would be that you could possibly ingest certain 928 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,760 Speaker 1: amounts of heavy water to trigger um UH, to trigger 929 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: a sort of state of hibernation, which could be useful 930 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: and say like interstellar travel. Francill points that out um 931 00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,400 Speaker 1: but also as summarized by Francill, basically they're observation is 932 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,360 Speaker 1: that quote Yeast models have showed that heavier isotopes, including deuterium, 933 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: become depleted in organisms with aging. They suggested as possible 934 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:14,280 Speaker 1: that periodically supplementing the diet with appropriate isotopeologus could extend 935 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: human lifespans. So if like you, tend to lose deuterium 936 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 1: as you get older, maybe supplementing the body with some 937 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,320 Speaker 1: some you know, a little bit of extra heavy water, 938 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of extra deuterium might do you some good. Again, 939 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,840 Speaker 1: totally speculative, not proven, but there are there are some 940 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: interesting tidbits in other organisms that suggests the possibility here. 941 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,840 Speaker 1: So in the future, the idea of saying heavy water 942 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,960 Speaker 1: supplements are possible, even if you end up having to 943 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,279 Speaker 1: buy them from Goop as opposed to anywhere, right, I mean, 944 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 1: I guess the question would be like, is this gonna 945 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,440 Speaker 1: end up being science based medicine or is this going 946 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,720 Speaker 1: to end up being some some pseudoscientific miracle cure hawked 947 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: on you know whatever. Conspiracy theory show um. But either 948 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,799 Speaker 1: way you're it's going to be for sale. Now. An 949 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,160 Speaker 1: inn resting thing I ran across Joe was that UM 950 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,399 Speaker 1: Apparently by by you can look at Mars, and by 951 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: looking at the ratio between deudorated water and normal water 952 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,000 Speaker 1: on Mars, scientists are able to get a better picture 953 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: of how much water Mars lost in the past. So basically, 954 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,280 Speaker 1: the more heavy water present, which is harder to lose, 955 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: than the more water you lost over time. So to 956 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,239 Speaker 1: come back to that idea of like heavy nickels and 957 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:30,239 Speaker 1: normal nickels in your like personal Scrooge McDuck bank, if 958 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,000 Speaker 1: you were afraid that lepri cons we're stealing your nickels 959 00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:38,200 Speaker 1: and lepricns are incapable of carrying them the heavier heavy nickels, 960 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,279 Speaker 1: then you could go to your Scrooge McDuck vault and 961 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: you look in there and you count the heavy nickels, 962 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,960 Speaker 1: and you could you could determine how many normal nickels 963 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,840 Speaker 1: have been stolen by lepricns based on the resulting ratio. 964 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,680 Speaker 1: That's really cool, and I love your analogy, by the way, 965 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,880 Speaker 1: but this does highlight the way that even if it 966 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,799 Speaker 1: turns out that you know, deudorde water is not going 967 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,919 Speaker 1: to extend human lifespans or anything like that. I think 968 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:11,240 Speaker 1: deuterium and heavy water will absolutely remain extremely important scientific 969 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,800 Speaker 1: atoms and molecules for for research because there are a 970 00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,440 Speaker 1: secondary indicator of all kinds of things. You can find 971 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: out a lot about the world by looking at at 972 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,080 Speaker 1: heavy water content and how it behaves. Yeah, I just 973 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,719 Speaker 1: wish I could have found a heavy water alien. I 974 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,759 Speaker 1: really wanted to find some somebody talking about heavy water 975 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,400 Speaker 1: aliens and heavy water people. So well, hey, that's that's 976 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,600 Speaker 1: open field. Somebody somebody set up a homestead there. Yeah, yeah, 977 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,600 Speaker 1: somebody right about it. Now. The one thing that is 978 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,400 Speaker 1: kind of related to all this in science fiction is 979 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,560 Speaker 1: that you have had some some some science fiction writers 980 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,520 Speaker 1: who have dealt with various proposed alternate versions of water. 981 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,759 Speaker 1: So author and National geographic journalist Robert C. O'Brien, who 982 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,600 Speaker 1: lived nineteen eighteen through nineteen seventy three, uh, most famous 983 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: as being the author of Ms. Frisbee and the Rats 984 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,920 Speaker 1: of Nim, wrote in nineteen seventy two novel titled A 985 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: Report from Group seventeen, and it has a lot to 986 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,920 Speaker 1: do with Nazi plots and a form of water that 987 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: essentially brainwashes individuals. So heavy water apparently might have played 988 00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,319 Speaker 1: a role in this idea, along with this concept of 989 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:24,760 Speaker 1: polly water. This was a hypothesized, uh, polymerized form of water. 990 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:26,840 Speaker 1: They would have been kind of like a syrup, you 991 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: know again, I mean more viscous. It doesn't actually exist, 992 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,560 Speaker 1: but it also infloy The idea of it also influenced 993 00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: Kurt Vonnicut's Ice nine concept and Cat's Cradle. Oh yeah, 994 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: and for those not familiar, Ice nine one of the 995 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: great plot devices of all time. It's a it's an 996 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,400 Speaker 1: alternate form of the water molecule that freezes at room temperature, 997 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,960 Speaker 1: and it can act as a seed crystal. So basically 998 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,920 Speaker 1: the premises you drop this in a lake and suddenly 999 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,240 Speaker 1: the entire lake will freeze at room temperature. It's bad. 1000 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:03,439 Speaker 1: It's bad and doesn't exist. Uh, unlike heavy water, which 1001 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,919 Speaker 1: is which does exist and is in you right now. Yeah, 1002 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,960 Speaker 1: that's the interesting thing. Um, it's weird how reading about this, uh, 1003 00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,360 Speaker 1: and I keep thinking about heavy water holding these uh 1004 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: opposing ideas in my head at the same time. I 1005 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,479 Speaker 1: guess it's like an exercise in scientific negative capability because 1006 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,520 Speaker 1: I keep thinking of heavy water simultaneously as something that's natural, 1007 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,960 Speaker 1: found in all the oceans of the world. It's in 1008 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,600 Speaker 1: your body right now. It's gonna be harmless at the 1009 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: levels that you ingested, but also is like a horrific poison, 1010 00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,360 Speaker 1: if you know, if ingested in the wrong way. Yeah, 1011 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, we we often have to think 1012 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: about that in terms of a lot of different things, 1013 00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,240 Speaker 1: including just normal water, right, I mean, um, as well 1014 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,680 Speaker 1: as like various household spices, um, you know, moderation and 1015 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: all things. Right, I mean, that's what holds the world 1016 00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,600 Speaker 1: to get holds their bodies together. Just dealing with without 1017 00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,360 Speaker 1: any you know, ethical interpretations of the statement like there 1018 00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,720 Speaker 1: is a there is a balance, there's a chemical balance 1019 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,960 Speaker 1: in all things, and that's kind of I mean, that's 1020 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,280 Speaker 1: kind of one of the big take homes of the 1021 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 1: chemical revolution. In addition to you know, developing all these 1022 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,600 Speaker 1: chemicals of life and then also these chemicals of death 1023 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,000 Speaker 1: during the twentieth century, you know, just are are our 1024 00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,919 Speaker 1: sudden you know, increasing understanding of just all of these 1025 00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,160 Speaker 1: little bonds that hold us together. Extremely good point. One 1026 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,240 Speaker 1: last thing I'll just say again, don't start buying heavy 1027 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,400 Speaker 1: water for life extension unless it's actually backed up by science. 1028 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:35,320 Speaker 1: Correct check the research on that. All right, Well, again, 1029 00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,320 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from everyone out there about 1030 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,439 Speaker 1: heavy water. If you have any experience with heavy water, 1031 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,320 Speaker 1: thoughts on heavy water, or indeed have you if you 1032 00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,280 Speaker 1: have read science fiction or had any kind of science 1033 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:49,920 Speaker 1: fiction based thoughts around heavy water organisms, we would love 1034 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,640 Speaker 1: to hear from you. In the meantime, if you would 1035 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,280 Speaker 1: like to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow 1036 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 1: your Mind, you can find us wherever you get your 1037 00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,840 Speaker 1: podcasts and wherever that happens to be. We just asked 1038 00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:03,200 Speaker 1: that you might maybe consider rating, reviewing, subscribing, uh, you know, 1039 00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,600 Speaker 1: those are things that supposedly help out the show. 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