WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Social Media and You 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:14.160 How Stuff Works. He there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.159 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.960 I Heart Radio and I love all things tech and 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.320 today is Friday. That means it's time for a classic 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:29.240 episode of tech Stuff. This episode originally published on January 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.640 twenty nine, two thousand thirteen. It is titled Social Media 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.920 and You, and it features Lauren Vogelbaum as my co host. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.560 Lauren had done a couple of episodes before this one 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.880 that you're about to hear. I did not include those 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.599 because they were particularly early ones. You can go back 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.320 into the archive at tech stuff podcast dot com and 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.760 find them. But I found that this one I think 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.400 was a good starting point for the Lauren era of 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.040 tech Stuff and hope you guys. And really there's a 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:02.279 lot of fear out there, I think in a lot 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:03.960 of a lot of news stories that are kind of 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:05.960 amping up that fear. And there's been several studies that 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.640 that talk with this doom and gloom about like about like, oh, no, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:10.840 social media is so big that we're not going to 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.039 talk to each other in person anymore. Um, total communication breakdown, 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.160 Captain Dogg's looking together that that kind of thing. Um, 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.360 and uh, it's this is not pop stuff, but I 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.280 like to just yes anyway, Yeah, no, no no, no, we 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.840 quote documentaries all the time here on tech stuff. It's 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.960 perfectly fine. And I agree entirely, Lauren. I mean, from 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.560 an armchair psychology perspective, if I were to just look 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.920 at the whole idea of social media and human interaction 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.520 in general, uh, part of me would think, hey, social 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.520 media is replacing that face to face human interaction that 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.680 we tend to think of as being really important as 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.280 part of our development as a person, right, or that 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.760 seems to be really important for a very long time. Yeah, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.760 I mean it's it's part of socialization. And the worry 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.200 is that without that face to face interaction with something 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.000 else replacing it, we would be less capable of dealing 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:08.959 with those interactions when they come up. And a lot 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:13.560 of the information about this tends to be anecdotal, which 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.919 anyone who has done any science knows is not reliable 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.639 when it comes to actually measuring it's not actually science. Um. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:24.760 There have been a few studies. There's a one one 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.840 that you will here quoted all the time was from 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:31.200 MD Stanford Institute for the Quantitative Study of Society. UM 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.720 and uh, this one said, this one is was in 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:36.600 two thousand five to be fair, so this was a 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.960 few years ago and before Twitter and Facebook were really huge. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.760 But um, but it found that um, compared to people 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.079 who do not use the internet frequently, those who do, 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.600 um uh, spend seventy minutes less per day interacting with 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.040 their family, twenty five minutes less per day sleeping, and 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.600 thirty is less watching television. Although I'm not sure why 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.959 that's necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, they could go the 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.160 other way, but but that but that family thing, that's 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.320 seventy minutes less a day talking to your family, that 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.240 sounds that sounds awful, right until of course you're interacting 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.080 with your family online exactly, and that's and that's what 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.360 we're I think it turns out that that is what 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.079 we are doing, right right. Yeah. Again, it's one of 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.720 those things where I think the stereotype, the thing that 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.519 we all imagine is the person sequestered in his or 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:27.000 her room. Uh, you know, it's dark, Yeah, it's depressing 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.880 and probably yeah, the only interaction they get is whomever 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.080 is online is through a keyboard and never a microphone, right, 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.960 and that's it. And it can be a synchronous communication, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.640 meaning that you know, you leave a message, then later 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.520 on the person reads it and then they leave a message. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.240 This is essentially the way email works. It's a synchronous 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.920 as opposed to a face to face conversation, which is 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.680 generally synchronous unless you're talking to me, in which case 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.000 it is just a monologue. But uh, that's the way 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.960 I work. But anyway, that's generally speaking, that tends to 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.160 be The view is that it's a person who is 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.840 withdrawing more and more. And it's this this idea that 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.400 social media could ultimately be dehumanizing us, at least in 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.680 the sense of how we define what a human is 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.720 right now, right, And to be fair, isolation is a 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.560 very scary thing. Um. There's all kinds of studies about 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.880 about how it can be as bad for you as 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:24.400 smoking and obesity, how it increases cancerus tumors in mice. Um. 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.400 I mean, it's developmentally, it's a very big problem. I mean, 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:32.159 there's there are actual cases of tragic cases of children 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:36.279 who are deprived the ability to interact with other people 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.720 and how that has impacted their ability to develop as 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.000 a human, like, like, you know, they never really develop 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.240 beyond a certain what would be equivalent to a certain age, 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.599 like a younger age. That there are stories about kids 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.280 who were in terrible conditions and you know, grow up 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.280 and never really develop beyond say a seven or eight 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.520 year old mensial level. Lonely subjects have been found to 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.520 have less brain activity than than people with a a 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.560 healthy and diverse social network. Yes, whenever I get lonely, 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.280 I'm not thinking of anything. It's just me and Supernatural, 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.440 Natural Marathon. You had it, man, before I could even 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.200 say it. Yes, it's just me and the next episode 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.320 of Supernatural. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Brothers 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.080 are dreaming. I wouldn't know. I don't want to they 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:30.240 are dreaming. I'm like, I believe you know. Okay, cool, 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:35.679 So anyway, Yes, these are these are all perceptions. Now, 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.280 when it comes down to science, there are a lot 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.320 of different stays that look at this, and there's some 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.000 conflicting results. And part of that is because the nature 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.680 of the studies. Part of it is that, you know, 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:49.039 the studies are not necessarily looking at the exact same criteria, right, 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.160 So it could be that one seems to contradict another, 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.560 but it maybe that in a broader perspective, they're not 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.000 really contradictory. It's just they're looking at they're looking at 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.159 different aspects. Because when people are talking about social isolation, um, 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:05.240 they're they're talking about the size, the intimacy, the diversity, 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.720 and the location of your social network. Right. Yes, there's 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.000 lots of different terms for this as well, about whether 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.760 or not you have a certain number of confidence like 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.279 people that you really connect with. These are the people 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:23.080 with whom you share those deep personal things that are 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.560 not something you would talk about to just your your neighbor, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.400 unless they're your confidence or or someone on the street 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.599 or your coworker. Necessarily it's it's it's who you go 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.520 to when you're upset or when you're happy. It's the 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.560 first person that, if you're me, you text message when 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:41.920 when something terrific happens to you, any text messages. Okay, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:47.600 so awkward, Uh, moving on, I'm dealing with a little 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.000 heartbreak here, but it's okay. I I don't don't have 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.479 to be everyone's best friend. Well, the thing is that 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.480 people that people really um the average person has has 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.719 one point eight ish and and that's that's you know, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.880 one one point eight close contexts like that, depending upon 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.360 depending on which survey looking at, because some of these 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.240 one of the one of the surveys I really looked at, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.840 which is one that you you sent me the information to, 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.560 So I thank you, Lauren, because without it I would 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.960 have nothing to talk about. But it was a Pew Internet, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:22.040 Personal Networks and Community survey. Now, before I even get 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.160 into the data here, I should stress they surveyed two thousand, 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.520 five twelve adults. Now that's a pretty small sample, and 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:34.440 that's not so any results we get you have to 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.320 keep in mind this is this is a very small sample. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.320 But within that sample they drew some pretty big conclusions. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.920 One of those was that of American adults said they 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:52.600 used the Internet. So wow, didn't but anyway said they 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:57.200 used the Internet. And nearly half of adults, or of 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.400 those who said they use the Internet, say they use 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.200 at least on social networking service. So this is stuff 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.800 like Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, that kind of thing, and this 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.560 is sort of tangential to our community. Are our our 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.480 conversation here. But I found it really interesting out of 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:17.560 the ones they surveyed of those who used social networking 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.080 services said they used Facebook. Them on Facebook is one 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:27.120 of the ones I use, used my Space, LinkedIn, and 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.160 used Twitter. So that means more people are using my 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.360 Space than Twitter, which to me says the twenty of 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.880 people who said that are all in the band. I mean, really, 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.000 when was the last time you use my Space? I 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:45.600 deleted my my Space account about a year ago. It's 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:50.560 it's coming back because timber Lakes brought sexy and my Spacebook. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.000 Those are the two things he brought back. I don't 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:54.680 know where he went to find them, but he brought 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.920 them back. Um. But yeah, I don't use my Space either. 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.120 It just blows my mom that more people are using 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.040 my Space that in the survey anyway, than LinkedIn and Twitter. 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:06.800 But um but but but that's I mean, that is 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.600 indicative of the of the overall usage. I mean, Facebook 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:15.160 as of October had um one billion monthly active users. Yeah, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.240 that's a huge, huge number. And h and five four 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.960 million daily active users. That's a whole bunch of people. 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.800 That's that's that's more people than there are even user 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.800 accounts on Twitter. Um. As as of December, Twitter had 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:34.760 had more than two million December twelve people with the 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.680 Far Future are listening to Back in Future? Where's my 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.320 jet pack? Is it on the way the time machine? 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.160 Just bring it back to me right? There's no way 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.480 they can tell me. This is the sad thing, Like 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.240 you've been using it for three years. Time travel stinks 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.480 because I only get to go one direction and it's 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.000 really slow, second by second. As it turns out, hey 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.679 there it's job from twenty nineteen here to say. We're 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:10.040 going to a quick break to thank our sponsor. The 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.920 interesting thing about this this survey, I mean we've been 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.319 kind of talking about the things they found, but one 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.960 of the things they were specifically looking for was this 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.920 idea of social isolation and does the use of social 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:27.000 media contribute to social isolation? Is it true that we 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.080 are actually withdrawing from society in favor of the interactions 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.920 that we have on social networking services? And according to 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.720 the service spoiler alert, no, no it's not having Yeah, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:43.080 they said that according to the surveying that social isolation 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:49.000 has not really changed since which this is just for 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.120 people who aren't paying really close attention. Not really a 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:57.080 big year for the internet. Um, if you were using 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.720 the Internet, you were in a research facility or a university. Uh, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.480 you are not the average person. Because, of course, the 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.960 Worldwide Web the main way we tend to think about 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.680 interacting with the Internet, apart from apps and stuff. That's 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.760 starting to really take control. But wed Web it wasn't 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.200 a thing until ninety two, so obviously is before social 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.079 networking services are a thing. Like three people on Prodigy 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.400 as of eight and that's not it. So if you're 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.920 on a bulletin board system, maybe, but it's before social 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:33.080 networking services obviously. Uh. But these the extent of social 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.920 isolation hasn't really changed the sense. So that tells us 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.800 that it's very possible social networking services don't have a 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.199 big impact. Now we can't say that for sure because 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.240 there are a lot of different facts. Yeah, it could 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:51.880 be that we are reducing social isolation at an exponential rate, 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.719 but the social networking services are pulling that back. So 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.840 it could be that there is an impact on social isolation. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.240 It's just that other factors are pushing it forward, so 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.600 it ends up balanced. Yeah. This is the complex thing 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.320 about science. This is why drawing conclusions is difficult. You 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.439 have to do a lot of studies and really look 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.680 at all the different factors and try and control for 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.720 as many variables as possible, because otherwise whatever you say 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.240 could turn out to be not so true in the 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.120 grand scheme of things. But based upon what this survey found, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.840 it looks like social networking services are not turning us 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.840 all into hermits. This isn't from the same Pew Internet study. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.319 I think it's from a different one. I didn't write 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.000 down which study it's from in my notes, but um, 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.880 it's been found that mobile phone use has actually made 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.720 our contact lists smaller but more intense. That makes sense. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.600 So for instance, you know, it's not that it's not 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.920 that the relationships are less meaningful. It just means that 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.040 the ones that we contact were really depending upon them, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.080 and that we might be using a phone in order 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.760 to make that connection as opposed to necessary you know, 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.880 walking across the street or or driving to a friend's hell, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.640 are meeting up at a coffee shop or whatever. To me, 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.600 you know, that just means that we're transferring that same 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.959 need for interaction to a different medium. It doesn't mean 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.480 that we're losing that interaction. It just means that it's 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.400 a you know, we're taking advantage of technology in ways 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.280 that we couldn't before, which is awesome because I mean, 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.000 I'm sure you've known people who have moved away. You 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.640 you yourself have moved a few times. Absolutely. I I 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.000 play Halo every Wednesday night so that I get to 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.080 hang out with my friends who don't live here anymore. Right, 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.800 So this is technology giving us those social interactions that 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:36.079 otherwise we might lose if if we were to relocate 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.680 or our friends relocate. And in my view, that's a 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.599 huge positive. It means that those those those relationships that 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.520 have been formed over years sometimes decades of uh knowing 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.920 one another don't fade away. They still remain relevant because 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.920 technology allows us to continue to build those relationships. Now, 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.680 those interactions, the nature of them might change it, but 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.840 it's still a very important part of who we are 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.400 and how we interact. And for some people, UM, you 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.680 know there there are mentally and physically disabled people, the elderly, um, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.280 new new mothers who can't get out of the house, um, 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.120 all kinds of people who they've been doing medical studies 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.920 with to see if use of the internet can actually 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.480 give them better social interaction. Sure it's it's it's been 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.160 found to reduce depression in lots of those groups, UM 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.480 and and has really helped people out. So yeah, I've 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.320 even seen that there have been studies done with people 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.520 who have various mental health conditions who otherwise would find 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.960 it very difficult to socialize. They they either not just 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.440 awkward like me and Jonathan. Right, No, no, no, the 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.720 people who really find it difficult to form any kind 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.960 of social contact. It's just one of those things that 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.800 it's a block for them and it can be very frustrating, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.840 especially if they observe that other people are capable of 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.480 doing this. And there are so many factors involved here. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.280 There's a there's an entire taboo about mental health in 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.080 our culture that is that's problematic and so awful. Yeah, 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.400 and it feeds on itself, right, it defends this thing 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.320 where it just mounts on the person who's experiencing this. 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.320 And some of the studies had people using social networks 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.720 and and they were finding it much easier to interact 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.680 with people and making suggestions on how to create a 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.000 social network with tools that would allow them to have 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.600 a greater interaction. Which, yeah, you think about that, like, 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.200 this is this is what technology should do. Technology should 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.720 help people so that they can interact any way they want. 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:44.960 In the you know in a way that brings them 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:49.440 the satisfaction that people can have, you know, people who 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.720 don't have these conditions tend to find naturally. Um, I 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.480 like this to me, it's to me, it's a great thing. 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.040 And anything that decreases that sense of isolation and that 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.960 since that taboo is a good thing to and it's 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:05.880 it's an added dimension. It doesn't have to be it 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.720 doesn't have to be replacement. It can be and things change, 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.760 I mean, I mean Socrates was terrified that writing was 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.520 going to ruin people's brains. Oh, I want to talk 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:20.200 about this, but we're gonna get into that all right. Now, 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.080 hang on one second. Now, let's take a quick break 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:33.400 to thank our sponsor, and now back to the show. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.880 So you were talking about Socrates and writing, right, the 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.160 idea that writing things down means that you're taking stuff 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.360 out of your brain and putting it on paper or 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.440 stone or clay or whatever. Right a tree, your buddy Bill, 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.440 who stands still for really long periods of time, whatever, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.400 you're taking it out of your brain, you're putting it 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.720 on something else, and therefore you are no longer relying 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.000 on your brain to process that information because you've offloaded 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.320 it soccers. You thought this was a terrible idea. The 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.280 interesting thing is that attitude has continued up to present day, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.520 which is, you know, I assume why you brought it up, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:15.320 because today we have computers and and uh smartphones and calculators. Calculators. Yeah, 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.960 I could not do complex equations anymore without the use 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.440 of a calculator because frankly, I just don't use those 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.760 skills as frequently as I as I used to. Well, 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:25.879 you're a writer, you're not a mathematician. I'm not a 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.479 good one either, um, and then mathematician that is, I'm 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:31.919 an excellent writer. You should read some of my articles 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.560 that how stufforce dot com. You know what I'm talking about. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.840 So anyway, yeah, yeah, I know. That's the exactly I 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.240 mean the Nicholas Carr wrote the famous article for The 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.080 Atlantic is Google making us stupid? This whole idea that 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.960 because we've got so much information on the internet and 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.280 we have access to information, and therefore we're less intelligent, 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.960 right right, we don't. We don't have to remember stuff, 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.160 we don't have to know stuff. We just because I'm 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.840 d knows it, right, Yeah, yeah, why do we Why 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:01.800 do I need to even process this information. All I 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.280 have to do is type in search query and Google 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.600 pull up the first answer, and then and then repeat 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.240 it back. It doesn't even mean that I even process 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.760 it on a level where I understand it social media 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.479 or social networking services. Some people were worried a similar 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.520 thing is going on with the social aspect. As we're 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.600 talking with the memory and processing of information on the Internet. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.600 This idea that social networking services are creating a less 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.600 meaningful way of connecting with people. But things like this 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.639 Pew research survey suggest otherwise. It's suggests that we're getting 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:41.160 just as much meaningful interaction online and through technology as 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.600 we would face to face. Now, the the actual nature 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.560 of that interaction may change somewhat somewhat, but it's still 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.600 important and it's still helpful. Yeah, and and that's I mean, 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.639 you know that kind of fear of technology. To be fair, 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.280 we hear tech stuff are probably biased towards technology and 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.639 just maybe maybe a little bit. Please listen to all 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:04.960 our episodes on your computers contacts at Discovery dot com. 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.520 But um, but but no, I mean, I mean, fear 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.800 of fear of technology isn't going to change the fact 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:11.800 that technology is out there, and it's not going to 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.119 change the fact that things are changing. Change happens, society changes, 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:20.520 everything changes, you know, and and fe people were also worried, um, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:26.240 in the Industrial Revolution that because um, because these these 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.919 machines were starting to automate human processes, that that the 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.960 the equality of workspace interaction was going to go down, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.320 and and all kinds of other ripple effects out from that. 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.719 And sure, that's where we get the whole sabotage thing, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.439 because people, you know, the whole idea throwing the wooden 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.800 shoe into the automated loom to destroy it. So are 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.000 old old listeners to not not old listeners, but people 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.800 listen to old episodes of tech stuff. I know that 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.000 We've talked about that many many times, and and it's 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.479 not it's you know, the answer is, yes, things are changing, 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:02.560 but no, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, in 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.399 fact that that Again, going back to that Pew survey, 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.280 one of the other things I thought was really interesting 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.480 was that they found that people who use the web 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.160 a lot. Again, another one of those those uh perceptions 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.400 is that these are people who don't get out as much. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.600 They don't you know, they don't interact in other ways 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.639 other than online, but that doesn't seem to be the 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.760 case according to the people that they surveyed. According to 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.400 the survey, the folks who used the web were actually 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:35.120 more likely to interact with people in their immediate physical environment. 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.639 They were more likely to do things like speak to 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.200 a neighbor on a on a regular basis or uh yes, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.840 it's six of respondent said that they talked to a 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.000 neighbor at least once per month. And they found that 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.800 bloggers are seventy two percent more likely to belong to 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.320 a local voluntary association than those who do not blog. 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.640 So there you've got people who are very much invested 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.879 in the online world, but not at the expense of 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:05.080 a physical one, so directly contradicting that armchair psychology approach, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.760 which is why we always say, like, yeah, there's that 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:12.359 whole idea of common sense dictates, which often means I 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.840 am wrong, but it seems like I'm right. I do 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:20.000 this all the time. I'm like, well, common sense talking 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.680 out of my butt because I don't have any data 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.360 in front of me. But yeah, they also found out 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.880 they said web users are more likely to visit a cafe. 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:31.760 I did not say if it was an internet cafe, 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.040 which obviously would increase the odds, but fifty two percent 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.600 more likely to visit a library. Didn't say if that 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.400 was because that's how they access the internet, But hey, 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:43.800 thirty four percent more likely to visit a fast food 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.760 restaurant that I don't necessarily think it's a good thing. 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:49.520 You know what, I haven't visit a fast food restaurant 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.880 in a very long time. I'm not a fast food fan. 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.600 More likely to visit other restaurants now I'm in that category. 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.520 We might like food and oh gosh, I love food, 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.000 And then more likely to visit a public park, which 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.320 is awesome. That is awesome. So we're talking about people 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:12.000 who have a real investment in their community and an 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.640 interest in the world outside the realm of the computer. 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.600 So that does contradict are they aren't going outside, they're 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.960 just taking pictures to upload when they get home. Right, Oh, 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:23.960 that reminds me of something I wanted to talk about 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.000 that wasn't on our on the notes, but it was. 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:30.199 It's this idea. It's something that's interesting. So one of 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.200 the one of the conflicts that people have with whole 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.840 social networking services and everything is that it It is 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.280 constantly interrupting our daily lives if we are connected in 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:46.000 various ways, so that uh verver ties where it's inappropriate 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.480 for you to stop what you're doing and respond to 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.359 someone on Facebook or Twitter, like like you're at work, 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.800 or you are in a conversation with someone, or you're 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.400 up on stage developing a keynote address to a bunch 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:02.080