Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie, and hello listeners. Now, Brian, you
Speaker 1: grew up right here in l A, on the main
Speaker 1: streets of Brentwood, and I know you've been obsessed with
Speaker 1: politics as long as you've been able to talk practically
Speaker 1: guilty as so tell us about today's guest, our latest
Speaker 1: wonder woman, Congresswoman Maxine Waters, who represents California's forty three
Speaker 1: congressional district. Well to start, her career has certainly had longevity.
Speaker 1: She's been a fixture in the California political scene since
Speaker 1: before I was born. She was elected to the California
Speaker 1: bragging Yes, I'm so youthful. She was elected the California
Speaker 1: State Assembly in the late seventies, then to Congress. She's
Speaker 1: represented l A through some very notable and difficult moments
Speaker 1: in its history, including, for example, the riots that followed
Speaker 1: the Rodney King verdict. And while she's been in politics
Speaker 1: for a long time, lately she's really captured the public imagination.
Speaker 1: This is Maxine Waters moment. She's a big head among
Speaker 1: millennials who call her Anti Mazine. They get t shirts
Speaker 1: and coffee mugs with her now famous slogan, which we'll
Speaker 1: talk about, and she is not mincing words these days.
Speaker 1: She recently said that quote, the United States of America
Speaker 1: is being represented by the most despicable human being that
Speaker 1: could possibly ever walk the earth. That's pretty clear. Tell
Speaker 1: us what you really think, Maxine. So I suppose now
Speaker 1: is the time to mention Katie that the idea with
Speaker 1: our Wonder Women's series is not to endorse a particular viewpoint,
Speaker 1: but instead we're having meaningful conversations with women who have
Speaker 1: made a big impact in their particular fields. That's right,
Speaker 1: And as I alluded to earlier, Congresswoman Waters certainly made
Speaker 1: a huge splash last summer in an exchange with Treasury
Speaker 1: Secretary Steve Venuchin. Will get to that as well, but
Speaker 1: we started by asking her about President Trump's recent comments
Speaker 1: to crying immigrants from what he called shiphole Country. Her
Speaker 1: reaction to what he said. When you heard that, Maximi,
Speaker 1: I call you maccine by absolutely. When you first heard that,
Speaker 1: what was your reaction, Well, you know, it was just
Speaker 1: a feeling of disgust. You know, I have been watching
Speaker 1: this president and paying a lot of attention to what
Speaker 1: he said, how he acts, and his tweeting, and I've
Speaker 1: known for a long time that this was a dishonorable
Speaker 1: human being, that this was a person with no good values.
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, I'd heard just about everything
Speaker 1: that you could possibly hear from him, and when I
Speaker 1: heard this statement about shiphole countries, I thought, this is it.
Speaker 1: You know, we have got to put the pressure on.
Speaker 1: Not so much to the people of Congress. They know
Speaker 1: and they should be doing more, but we've got to
Speaker 1: keep saying to the American people, this is your country.
Speaker 1: You have got to make sure that you put pressure
Speaker 1: on your elected officials, that you show up that we
Speaker 1: do everything that we can to get this man out
Speaker 1: of office. So what do you think is the recipe
Speaker 1: for doing that? I mean, you know, we've heard this before.
Speaker 1: You were saying impeachment a few months ago, and people
Speaker 1: hear this, they're mortified. But what is the path forward? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I have hope that our special counsel Moller
Speaker 1: is going to connect the dots in a way that
Speaker 1: people cannot deny it, that you can easily see that
Speaker 1: he's been involved in collusion, that he's obstructed justice, that
Speaker 1: he's been involved in money laundering, and when you add
Speaker 1: all of that to what he's revealed about his character,
Speaker 1: I don't know how members of Congress are going to
Speaker 1: be able to stand with him. So I have a
Speaker 1: lot of hope that Mueller is going to reveal information
Speaker 1: about him that will make people understand and believe how
Speaker 1: danger he is. So clearly to me at least, the
Speaker 1: remarks were racist. Do you think that Donald Trump is
Speaker 1: a racist? Donald Trump is a racist? And I said
Speaker 1: at this morning on MSNBC, I wanted to be known
Speaker 1: by everyone that I am not unsure about how I
Speaker 1: feel about him and what I've seen and what I've heard.
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is now it seems that even
Speaker 1: in the media, print media, you know, electronic media, etcetera,
Speaker 1: you're hearing others say it more and more and more.
Speaker 1: And so yes, I'm sure that he's a racist. And
Speaker 1: what do you make of that change in tone and
Speaker 1: change in sort of characterization of the president? Well, first
Speaker 1: of all, for me, I cannot help but think, why
Speaker 1: did it take him so long to understand what I
Speaker 1: think I have known for a long time, going back,
Speaker 1: even taking a look at his history where he and
Speaker 1: his father denied rental units to African or Americans and
Speaker 1: had to settle that. And there are other kinds of
Speaker 1: incidents that has helped me to come to this conclusion.
Speaker 1: But I think for those who are willing to say
Speaker 1: it for the first time is that they can't doubt
Speaker 1: themselves anymore. They can't say, uh, maybe uh, you know,
Speaker 1: people are Russian to judgment about him, maybe he didn't
Speaker 1: really mean it. I think now more and more people
Speaker 1: are saying, oh, no, he has demonstrated without a doubt
Speaker 1: that he is a racist. Why do you think Donald
Speaker 1: Trump says these things? I mean, he's with a lot
Speaker 1: of members of Congress when he does it. It's not
Speaker 1: as if he says it even privately. So what is
Speaker 1: motivating him to do these things? Do you think he's
Speaker 1: got mental issues or do you think he's a jerk?
Speaker 1: Or what? What do he why? Why is he doing this? Well?
Speaker 1: You know, I've had some people say to me, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, he's strategic, he knows what he's doing. I
Speaker 1: don't think he can help himself. I think this something
Speaker 1: about his basic character. I think this is something about
Speaker 1: the way that he has learned to deal with the world,
Speaker 1: in the business world, with his family and all of that.
Speaker 1: I think it's the way he's been socialized, and I
Speaker 1: think it's the way he's been able to win in
Speaker 1: certain ways. Uh. And so I think that he can't
Speaker 1: help himself. It comes out and I really believe that
Speaker 1: because sometimes he tries to so called walking back, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think he is out of control. It's just
Speaker 1: very it's unfathomable to me that he does this. It's
Speaker 1: so self sabotaging. Yes, yes, well, let me just say this.
Speaker 1: I think one of the most recent denials he's made
Speaker 1: is with the Wall Street Journal, and he is basically
Speaker 1: saying that he did not say what they're saying he said.
Speaker 1: But this period of his uh, this year that he's
Speaker 1: been in office, is replete with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Don't forget Billy Bush and the recording that was made
Speaker 1: where he talked about grabbing women by their private parts,
Speaker 1: and now he's trying to say that really wasn't my
Speaker 1: voice on tape. So I think he can't help himself.
Speaker 1: I think that he's dangerous. Uh. And what bothers me
Speaker 1: is that number one, he is negotiating with other countries
Speaker 1: and representing US, and he's alienating other countries. Do we
Speaker 1: do you think that any of the sticks, you know?
Speaker 1: I wonder if it all becomes white noise. And I
Speaker 1: wonder if people become inured to this kind of rhetoric
Speaker 1: and this kind of behavior. Well, could you imagine if
Speaker 1: any other president had, if any other president paid off
Speaker 1: a porn star to keep quiet about their extramarital relationship.
Speaker 1: And that wasn't even the top story a couple of
Speaker 1: days ago when it came out. No, as a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, there's not been a lot of discussion about that.
Speaker 1: A hundred and thirty thousan dollar ears to the porn
Speaker 1: star that was paid off by Cohen. But that's my question,
Speaker 1: though doesn't matter. Well, here's what It won't matter if
Speaker 1: it is sub rosa, if we don't talk about it,
Speaker 1: if we don't discuss it. And it's not so much
Speaker 1: about just saying I'm worried. We have to talk about
Speaker 1: this in relationship to the democracy, to our country. This
Speaker 1: is a man who doesn't care about the constitution, he
Speaker 1: doesn't care about the protocols of government, and care about
Speaker 1: anybody but himself. Really, But I think we have to
Speaker 1: keep reminding people how unusual this is, how abnormal it is,
Speaker 1: and not allow it to become normal. So you mentioned
Speaker 1: Bob Mueller, the special counsel doing this Russia investigation. You've
Speaker 1: been out front on a campaign to protect Mueller. What
Speaker 1: are you protecting him from? Well, as you know, this
Speaker 1: president has demonstrated that he will cross over the line
Speaker 1: in anything. I mean, when he decides that he wants
Speaker 1: to punish someone, when he decides he wants to say
Speaker 1: something nasty about someone, he has no filter, he will
Speaker 1: do it. And I think he was poised to fire Muller.
Speaker 1: I think he still would like to do it. But
Speaker 1: I think that enough people rose up. Uh, and not
Speaker 1: just members of Congress. I organize one dred and seventy
Speaker 1: one members. But you could hear some Republicans mumbling he
Speaker 1: better not do that. And so I think that enough
Speaker 1: people you know, stood in support of Mola in different
Speaker 1: ways that caused him to at least back off to
Speaker 1: this point, can we do one, one or two more
Speaker 1: moral questions, just as long as just because I want
Speaker 1: to mention her poem that did so So you recently
Speaker 1: wrote a poem did very well, like the rest of
Speaker 1: your social media posts, can you read it to us? Yes? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Um a message to me life, stay strong and stand calm,
Speaker 1: continue to investigate them all you're indeed answering the people's call.
Speaker 1: The Krimlin clan is going to fall around you. The
Speaker 1: Democrats are building a wall. We look forward to the
Speaker 1: day to prison. They will all be hauled. Regular William,
Speaker 1: So you've asked about this investigation. What is Trump so
Speaker 1: afraid of? Yes, what do you think he's so afraid of? Well,
Speaker 1: I absolutely believe he certainly knows what he has done
Speaker 1: and who he has been connected to, and he knows
Speaker 1: what Kushner has done, he knows what Wilbert Ross has
Speaker 1: been involved in, and all of the rest of them,
Speaker 1: that's you know, his allies around him. And so he
Speaker 1: knows if the investigation continues that they're going to find
Speaker 1: out what he has done and what his connections are
Speaker 1: to Putin and to some of the oligarchs of Russia,
Speaker 1: and so he would like to stop it. He has
Speaker 1: put forth a lot of effort at starting out when
Speaker 1: he thought he could co op Comy and get him
Speaker 1: to uh not go forward with the investigation as he
Speaker 1: asked him not to do. And so I think he's
Speaker 1: afraid he's going to be discovered. I don't know the
Speaker 1: extent to which you know he has been involved with
Speaker 1: Russian and the extent to which he's been involved in
Speaker 1: money laundrying. But I believe that it is substantial. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned in your poem the Kremlin clan. Yes, do
Speaker 1: you believe the Steel dossier that basically says Putin has
Speaker 1: some kind of blackmail on Trump? I believe that there
Speaker 1: are a lot of things in that that's here that
Speaker 1: are true. Uh. You know, I keep hearing from the
Speaker 1: FBI and others that it has not all been vetted.
Speaker 1: I wish they would get through with the vetting so
Speaker 1: that we will know which parts of it are absolutely true.
Speaker 1: But I do think that a lot of it is true.
Speaker 1: And Trump has never said I wasn't in that hotel room.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't care what you said. He's never
Speaker 1: denied that. And of course we have learned that this
Speaker 1: is the way the Russians work. They blackmail, Uh. They
Speaker 1: lure you into situations so that they can have something
Speaker 1: on you. This is supposed to be common practice with
Speaker 1: Putin in particular. You've been a member of Congress since that.
Speaker 1: There was a moment last year when you really lit
Speaker 1: up the national stage just to set the scene. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about Treasury Secretary Stephen Nuchin was
Speaker 1: testifying before the House Financial Services Committee, where you're the
Speaker 1: top Democrat, and you became frustrated and said these infamous
Speaker 1: or famous three words, reclaiming my time. Is there some
Speaker 1: reason why I did not get a response to the
Speaker 1: letter that I sent May twenty three, So, Ranking Member Waters,
Speaker 1: first of all, let me thank you for your service
Speaker 1: to California. Being a resident of California, I appreciate everything
Speaker 1: that you can the community there. I don't want to
Speaker 1: take my time. I also have appreciated the opportunity to
Speaker 1: claim in my time. Claim in mind, we're doing our
Speaker 1: claim in my time. The time belongs to the general.
Speaker 1: Lady from California. Just say it for us one more time, vaccine,
Speaker 1: reclaiming my time, reclaiming my time. I think that should
Speaker 1: be the title of your memoirs, if you ever write them. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that he had been taught that
Speaker 1: if he could take up the time complimenting me and
Speaker 1: saying nice things about me, I could not get to
Speaker 1: question him about why he had not answered the letter
Speaker 1: that we had sent. And in fact, those the rules
Speaker 1: of the House where if he does, it takes away
Speaker 1: from your time period. You're questioning the time. That's right.
Speaker 1: It takes away from our time period. And there's nothing
Speaker 1: new about those words. You know, this is the regular
Speaker 1: art of business, and it has been used by other members.
Speaker 1: It's used from time to time, and for some reason
Speaker 1: people heard it for the first time. Well, I think
Speaker 1: it meant more than just reclaiming my time. I think
Speaker 1: that was symbolic for a lot of things at this
Speaker 1: moment in our history. Why do you think it captured
Speaker 1: the public's imagination. It went viral, and it's really becomes
Speaker 1: revered thing. I know, I don't know. I've thought about
Speaker 1: it a lot. I think, um, one thing that happened
Speaker 1: was here you had a woman who's the ranking member
Speaker 1: of the Financial Services Committee, it happens to be an
Speaker 1: African American woman, and you had a rich, powerful man
Speaker 1: who's part of the president's cabinet, who is now the
Speaker 1: Treasury secretary. And for me to just not be intimidated
Speaker 1: by him, to not allow him to get away what
Speaker 1: he was trying to do. I think it was inspiring
Speaker 1: and I think it helped people to have hope that
Speaker 1: g we've got some people there that are willing to
Speaker 1: take them on and to you know, force them to
Speaker 1: have to answer questions and to you know, deal with
Speaker 1: the issues that are before them. So I think it
Speaker 1: might have been a little inspiring. What kind of my
Speaker 1: goodness all kind of being back as you know, there's
Speaker 1: a man who created a song that's right, sort of
Speaker 1: a remix of reclaiming My Time. And so I was
Speaker 1: on the view and they surprised me with him coming
Speaker 1: out of the audience sing and reclaiming My Time and
Speaker 1: the audience joining in with I was shocked. I said,
Speaker 1: I can't believe, first of all, and he's a good singer,
Speaker 1: he's excellent wan to talk about the things y, But
Speaker 1: I tell you what, the most interesting thing about it is,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of women who have decided that
Speaker 1: they were going to make some changes in their lives.
Speaker 1: One person talked about a divorce, and this was a
Speaker 1: man really about how uh he felt, you know, he
Speaker 1: couldn't go on with his life, you know, because it
Speaker 1: had been so traumatic for him. But he said, I'm
Speaker 1: reclaiming my time. All kind of stories like that, and
Speaker 1: then of course these cute little things that happened on
Speaker 1: the internet at Halloween. There was these little girls kind
Speaker 1: of they had them dressed up like me, you know,
Speaker 1: with the kind of a jacket suit jacket and little
Speaker 1: pearls and ear rings. And one was sitting there with
Speaker 1: the pumpkin, said reclaiming my candy. And you're are all
Speaker 1: kinds of stories, like people have taken this to fit
Speaker 1: situations in their lives and they are using it to
Speaker 1: basically declare that something different is going to happen. And
Speaker 1: so I've enjoyed these stories. It's a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I'm writing about them. Are you? Are you writing a
Speaker 1: book about this? Not yet, but I'm I'm your journaling. Yes,
Speaker 1: is that what you call that? Okay, I'm good. We're
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and we'll be back with
Speaker 1: more from Congresswoman Maxine Waters right after this. Now back
Speaker 1: to our conversation with Congresswoman Maxine Waters. So, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people have gotten to know you recently
Speaker 1: as sort of a hero of the resistance movement, but
Speaker 1: I don't think they really know you well. So you
Speaker 1: grew up the fifth of thirteen children in St. Louis.
Speaker 1: Your dad left when you were two years old. About
Speaker 1: that time, tell us about your mother. My mother, Um
Speaker 1: was a really beautiful woman who uneducated. She only went
Speaker 1: to third grade, and she came out of an interest
Speaker 1: in history because her father was not married to my grandmother,
Speaker 1: her mother, and he married someone else, and the that
Speaker 1: family became pretty prominent family, and the daughters of that
Speaker 1: family went to college, and the relatives on that side
Speaker 1: were quite different from my mother's side. My mother's side
Speaker 1: was rather poor, and I was raised partly with my
Speaker 1: great grandmother because my grandmother died pretty early and she
Speaker 1: helped my mother. My mother was this young woman at
Speaker 1: sixteen years old, she married a man about thirty something
Speaker 1: years old, and I think a lot of that had
Speaker 1: to do with being poor and with your grandparents saying
Speaker 1: it's okay, you know. And so she had all of
Speaker 1: five or six of us by my father. And I
Speaker 1: don't know all of the information about how she decided
Speaker 1: to leave and go to St. Louis. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't understands Arkansas. But was interesting that the
Speaker 1: first five children were all born in different states. And
Speaker 1: I think it was because my father was didn't have
Speaker 1: a talent or career. He was like a handy man,
Speaker 1: and so I think he traveled wherever that was work.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how she managed that. I don't
Speaker 1: really understand how she took her children and left, but
Speaker 1: he followed her at one point, I think, to St. Louis.
Speaker 1: And that's when I was born at home without you know,
Speaker 1: we had no health insurance. I think, um, I mean why, um,
Speaker 1: very poor, went on welfare and I think he was
Speaker 1: there for a while, left and then came back when
Speaker 1: I was about two years old. Yeah, so I didn't
Speaker 1: know a lot about him. Thirteen children and very poor,
Speaker 1: uh family, and yet your mother must have given you
Speaker 1: all something. So she was strong. Now, she was very
Speaker 1: very strong and amazingly uh kind of self educated because
Speaker 1: she didn't get a formal education, wrote lovely letters, and
Speaker 1: she was a survivor. And she was married a second time.
Speaker 1: There were two children that was born in between the
Speaker 1: first marriage and the second marriage, and all the rest
Speaker 1: were born to the second marriage, and like a whole
Speaker 1: a different family. But she was strong and uh we
Speaker 1: you know, she raises in church. We went to church
Speaker 1: every Sunday and went to Sunday schools, a lot of
Speaker 1: hard work because don't forget, the first three were girls,
Speaker 1: the first four for girls, and so we did everything
Speaker 1: we had to do it. We shovel coal, we watched wendows,
Speaker 1: we fixed broken things. I mean, we did everything. But
Speaker 1: I want to tell you I'm very grateful for it
Speaker 1: now because I depend on nobody. You know, I can,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever I have to be prepared for whatever
Speaker 1: I have to get ready for whatever I have to do.
Speaker 1: You know, we're in an old house, for example, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, life went out. I said,
Speaker 1: where's the shields box? You know, I had to go
Speaker 1: and put I want to stow at bottom fields as
Speaker 1: I put him into black My husband did quite no.
Speaker 1: So she taught you how to be strong and independent.
Speaker 1: I'm curious of the thirteen kids, are are many still living?
Speaker 1: And do you still stay in touch with them? That yes,
Speaker 1: I'm in touch with them. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: long before my mother passed three years ago, I had started,
Speaker 1: maybe twenty years ago, of having a Mother's Day luncheon.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a family reunion, but it happens
Speaker 1: on Mother's Day, and so all of the family participates,
Speaker 1: all of the my siblings participate in this luncheon. And
Speaker 1: now you know, my nieces and nephews and great nieces
Speaker 1: and nephews. They all participate and we went on her
Speaker 1: like you know a queen and you know she would
Speaker 1: be senter focus. Well she only so she How old
Speaker 1: was she when she passed? Ninety seven years old? And
Speaker 1: that was three years ago that she passed away. But
Speaker 1: the all thirteen kids are still learning. No no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. We have at least four of them have
Speaker 1: passed along the way. So you moved here to l Ae.
Speaker 1: You worked at a factory, as a telephone operator, as
Speaker 1: a teacher at head Start, assistant teacher. What I don't
Speaker 1: want to gild the lily there. What drew you then
Speaker 1: to get involved in politics? Well, I think it was
Speaker 1: my time and head Start, the head Start program was
Speaker 1: and still is very special for me. It was doing
Speaker 1: the war on poverty. It was a new program. There
Speaker 1: was a new program under the Big War on Poverty
Speaker 1: where a Sergeant Shriver and others had been had decided
Speaker 1: that they were going to deal with poverty and they
Speaker 1: were going to put funds into creating programs that would
Speaker 1: help people get jobs, help people get job trained, help
Speaker 1: people service interns. When they elected officials, all of this
Speaker 1: was coming about. This was a very exciting time and
Speaker 1: so at that time, I would say service representative for
Speaker 1: the gas company. And I had a friend and she
Speaker 1: heard about the War on Poverty and the head Start program,
Speaker 1: and we talked about, you know, this program is going
Speaker 1: to be very important. It's gonna give little children from
Speaker 1: poor families and from working class families an opportunity to
Speaker 1: have a preschool education, which you know was kind of
Speaker 1: unheard of except for if you were rich or you
Speaker 1: had money, you were wealthy. And so we both tracked
Speaker 1: it down and we applied. Oh I got the jobs,
Speaker 1: she didn't. There's increasing scientific evidence that early childhood education
Speaker 1: is so critically important, Maxine, as we know. And yet
Speaker 1: there is a piece in the New York Times magazine
Speaker 1: talking about how preschool teachers are paid pitiful wages and
Speaker 1: really treated with very little respect and considered babysitters. How
Speaker 1: do you see that changing? Because there's such a disparity
Speaker 1: between children of means and children of poverty when it
Speaker 1: comes to their vocabularies, when it comes to really starting
Speaker 1: them off on the right track. How can how can
Speaker 1: we change that? Well, you know, at one time this
Speaker 1: country was moving towards embracing the fact that we had
Speaker 1: to invest in our very young children and provide preschool. Now,
Speaker 1: we always had a few right wingers who thought, no,
Speaker 1: they didn't want a preschool. Uh, this was putting their
Speaker 1: children in the hands of others, too young and all
Speaker 1: of that. But really there was a feeling that this
Speaker 1: was very, very important. You know, when I look at
Speaker 1: where we are today with right wing conservatives who don't
Speaker 1: have they don't want government to support education. They want
Speaker 1: to privatize all education. And when I take a look
Speaker 1: at the way these private post secondary schools or ripping
Speaker 1: off you know, the government, I am almost numbed by
Speaker 1: the fact that we have gone backwards. But you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right to the degree that you invest in education for
Speaker 1: young of children. Uh, not only do you get them
Speaker 1: prepared for elementary school, but you have them learn to
Speaker 1: think early. And we were taught and head Start to
Speaker 1: help individual children understand that they were important, that they
Speaker 1: were good. And so I I love head Start and
Speaker 1: I believe in hit Start, and I'm worried because their
Speaker 1: efforts to spread out head Start without more money. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: I just want to point out there was a study
Speaker 1: that showed for kids of means versus kids of poverty,
Speaker 1: by the time they're five, the vocabulary gap is thirty
Speaker 1: million words. What yes? And then if kids aren't at
Speaker 1: the same level by fourth grade, they never catch is
Speaker 1: never going to catch you. So I think that just
Speaker 1: shows how critically important early childhood education is. That's right.
Speaker 1: We should the Congress of the United States of America
Speaker 1: should be doing everything possible to invest in preschool education. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you got elected to the California State Legislature and your
Speaker 1: signature cause it seemed at that time was divesting from
Speaker 1: apartheid era South Africa. Lot of the important issues I
Speaker 1: dealt with. So now there's discussion on college campuses and
Speaker 1: elsewhere about divesting from Israel. How are those movements similar
Speaker 1: and different in your mind? And do you think that's
Speaker 1: a good idea? Well, you know, Uh, the investment has
Speaker 1: always been kind of controversial. Uh. When we worked to divest, uh,
Speaker 1: and I worked on divesting our pension funds from companies
Speaker 1: that we're doing business in South Africa, I was very
Speaker 1: sure that all of those companies, American firms in particular,
Speaker 1: that were there, uh, and they were a part of
Speaker 1: the exploitation. Uh, they were part of not only the
Speaker 1: under payment of their workers, but they could see how
Speaker 1: they lived, they could see how the apartheid government treated them,
Speaker 1: but they were only interested in their bottom line. And
Speaker 1: so that moved me to say, no, this is not right.
Speaker 1: These American firms cannot be there basically sighting with the
Speaker 1: apartheime government against these people that they're exploiting and they're
Speaker 1: working for pennies and all of that, and so I
Speaker 1: felt very comfortable with the fact that we should get
Speaker 1: involved in divestment. I'm hearing a lot more about this
Speaker 1: movement with Israel, and so I have to admit that
Speaker 1: I have not paid as much attention to what goes
Speaker 1: on in Israel as I was paying attention to what
Speaker 1: was going on in Africa, and so I am learning.
Speaker 1: I joined Jay Streak just to learn more about because
Speaker 1: they seemed UH and they are. I'm convinced that they are.
Speaker 1: That they are credible in the way that they evaluate
Speaker 1: what is happening, and the way that they deal with
Speaker 1: the issues, and the way that they take responsibility, and
Speaker 1: the way that they sometimes don't agree certainly with net
Speaker 1: Yahoo and others UH and their pro peace and pro Israel.
Speaker 1: It's an organization largely started by Jewish co Founders, but
Speaker 1: they therefore a peace agreement, and I agree with them
Speaker 1: and I follow them a lot, but they advocate divesting
Speaker 1: from Israel. So divesting from Israel is hugely controversial and complicated,
Speaker 1: and and what are your views on that, Brian. I'm
Speaker 1: opposed to it because I think there's no moral equivalence
Speaker 1: between what happened in South Africa and what is currently
Speaker 1: happening in Israel. Despite the profound differences that I personally
Speaker 1: have with Netanya, whose government, I don't think divestment is
Speaker 1: the right way to move them to change. But it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's become a big topic of conversation among a lot
Speaker 1: of young liberals in particular. It is and one of
Speaker 1: my dearest friends who I really need so often to
Speaker 1: be able to talk to, died. Did you ever hear
Speaker 1: the name Stanley Shinbau, Yes, of course, long time very
Speaker 1: famous Democratic Jewish actor this in l Yes. And he
Speaker 1: was an adviser to me, you know, he helped me
Speaker 1: through some of these issues. So I will keep up
Speaker 1: with it and I will see. Yes, you've represented the
Speaker 1: district where there were major riots. Of course after the
Speaker 1: Rodney King's verdict. Of course I was covering that on
Speaker 1: a daily basis, and and you try not to excuse
Speaker 1: but explain why people were rioting. More than sixty people
Speaker 1: were killed, lots of shops and businesses destroyed. Has been
Speaker 1: more than a quarter of a century. When you look
Speaker 1: back on these riots, what are your thoughts today? Was
Speaker 1: anything really accomplished? Well, here's basically what I think and
Speaker 1: what I was thinking then. After I was elected, and
Speaker 1: in that district that I had at the time, there
Speaker 1: were several public housing projects, and supposedly we had programs
Speaker 1: at the city. Leave of all that was dealing with
Speaker 1: the job training and dealing with trying to get young
Speaker 1: people employed because the employment rates were very high. But
Speaker 1: every time I went through, whether it was Nickerson Gardens,
Speaker 1: Jordan Downs, Imperial Courts, Kanzak Village, all of these places,
Speaker 1: I could see nothing but young men hanging out, hordes
Speaker 1: of young people, and I could think, why aren't the
Speaker 1: city resources getting here? Why don't we see the job
Speaker 1: training programs that I decided to create one myself. And
Speaker 1: while I was there doing this work, I learned an
Speaker 1: awful lot about how people were living and why they
Speaker 1: were living that way. First of all, real poverty secondly,
Speaker 1: lost hope. These young people didn't think anything was gonna
Speaker 1: happen to them. They couldn't get a job, they didn't
Speaker 1: have any money. Uh, they didn't think anybody cared about them,
Speaker 1: And so their lives were absolutely separate and apart from
Speaker 1: what goes on in the other part of the city.
Speaker 1: It's another world. And so when it happened, it was
Speaker 1: almost as if I knew that something was going to give.
Speaker 1: And I attempted to describe the hopelessness. You don't agree
Speaker 1: to riots as being the answer, but what you have
Speaker 1: to understand is that if you have this consistent poverty,
Speaker 1: and you have hopelessness, and you have abandonment, that something's
Speaker 1: gonna give. That's what I saw. Do you think things
Speaker 1: have improved, Oh, over the years, yeah, things have improved.
Speaker 1: But you know, the way that the conservatives talk about
Speaker 1: it is as if you don't continue to build on progress.
Speaker 1: We put money there, Look, nothing happened, you know, we
Speaker 1: put money there a long time ago. Things change, but
Speaker 1: it takes time. To your point, well, it takes time.
Speaker 1: And to move families and children from generations of poverty
Speaker 1: takes even more than time. It takes time plus time
Speaker 1: and so, yes, there have been changes, and yes, I
Speaker 1: think there have been setbacks, but I don't think that
Speaker 1: our country and our government have been prepared to deal
Speaker 1: with the complications of poverty and how to unwind it
Speaker 1: and get people out of it. So coming back to
Speaker 1: your personal story, Yes, there was an article last year
Speaker 1: in the Daily Beast and the headline was Maxine Waters
Speaker 1: from most Corrupt to resistance hero. I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about the first part of that headline. That must
Speaker 1: have hurt a lot. Well, I wish that I could
Speaker 1: say it did, except I have heartened over the years
Speaker 1: because I have been involved in controversial issues and I
Speaker 1: have fought against the established way of doing things. So
Speaker 1: I've been criticized and I've been called names, and I'd
Speaker 1: be happy to discuss with you what this is all about.
Speaker 1: And I think about it a lot now, uh, in
Speaker 1: terms of how it evolved, and here's what. When the
Speaker 1: recession took place where there was a subprime meltdown which
Speaker 1: brought us to basically a crash. When that happened, one
Speaker 1: of the things that happened was a bank, a black
Speaker 1: bank that my husband served on as the board of
Speaker 1: directors who never took any director's fees. Just wanted to
Speaker 1: make sure that we had a minority institutions in the community,
Speaker 1: and he had retired from that even before this incident
Speaker 1: took place. But when it took place, the president of
Speaker 1: the Minority Bankers Association came to me and said, this
Speaker 1: is a disaster. It put them at great risk. They said,
Speaker 1: we we'll go out of business. Gotta do something. I
Speaker 1: said yes, because I worked with minority institutions. So I
Speaker 1: called the Treasury Secretary and asked him if he would
Speaker 1: meet with the representatives from the minority banks, and he
Speaker 1: said yes. So just to give some background to our
Speaker 1: listeners that the controversy at the time was, as you said,
Speaker 1: there was this bank in the community where your husband
Speaker 1: had been involved, and the criticism of you was that
Speaker 1: you would intervene to try to get bail out money
Speaker 1: in support of this bank. Just so people understand. But
Speaker 1: so people also understand small banks, community banks, and minority
Speaker 1: banks can't get into the Treasurer's office. Yeah, Jamie Diamond
Speaker 1: walks into the treasure's office like he owns it, and
Speaker 1: the big CEOs of the banks, and so they need
Speaker 1: some help. I am not above given help where I
Speaker 1: think help is needed, and so Republican inside the Treasurer's
Speaker 1: office Maxine Waters controversial husband. They tried to say he
Speaker 1: was serving on the bank boyd At the time he
Speaker 1: was not, but both of us had money in this bank,
Speaker 1: and so they tried to say that I was doing
Speaker 1: something special for a bank. When they came to me,
Speaker 1: it was representing all of the banks, the minority banks,
Speaker 1: and so they met with him. Uh and uh. It
Speaker 1: became a story. As a matter of fact, it was
Speaker 1: somewhere in the New York Times who got a call
Speaker 1: with this. And I handled it very wrong because when
Speaker 1: this person came to me because they had gotten a
Speaker 1: call from the Republican and asked me about this, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't talk to him. I said, you're out of your mind.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just handled it wrong. And I think
Speaker 1: that the story really developed out of the fact that
Speaker 1: I resisted engaging the reporter. At the time. You were
Speaker 1: cleared by an investigator. Absolutely, and we always knew we
Speaker 1: would be. Is it frustrating? Is it frustrating vaccine that
Speaker 1: that this sort of label kind of pops up and
Speaker 1: seems to haunt you now and again. Oh, here's what
Speaker 1: I have come to groups with It's the same way
Speaker 1: that I deal with airplane flights. When I'm on the
Speaker 1: airplane and I'm in the air, no matter how restless
Speaker 1: I am, no matter if I had fear, it's nothing
Speaker 1: I can do at the time. I have to stay
Speaker 1: on that plane and keep riding, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And so, of course this is gonna pop up. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that I do believe is that
Speaker 1: everybody knows that we're totally exonerated, that they found none
Speaker 1: of that to be true. Uh. And the other thing is,
Speaker 1: you know, if your constituents developed trust because you have
Speaker 1: dealt with them in a trustful way, it doesn't bother them.
Speaker 1: Let's move on. And I want to get your thoughts.
Speaker 1: As a strong African American female, he's been involved in
Speaker 1: politics for a very long time, how you feel about
Speaker 1: this so called reckoning that we're in the midst of
Speaker 1: in terms of women reclaiming their powers and he claiming
Speaker 1: their time and standing up and speaking out. Well, I
Speaker 1: come from the women's movement, Bella Apps A Glorious Steinhum,
Speaker 1: pat Ty Mink. I mean this was part of my
Speaker 1: development and I think what either we did wrong or
Speaker 1: we were not able to do well was we did
Speaker 1: not keep it going, so that we entered into a
Speaker 1: point in time where young women said, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: going to have a career and I don't want to
Speaker 1: be seen as a broad burning woman the way those
Speaker 1: women were, and we do it differently. Excepted just come
Speaker 1: full circle. Accepted his come full circle with the focus
Speaker 1: on sexual assault. And so I'm pleased that women are
Speaker 1: willing to speak up and now that we know there's
Speaker 1: a difference, because you know, at my age, we came
Speaker 1: from a time when men whistling, when men talking about
Speaker 1: how good you look with your body. I mean, we
Speaker 1: just thought that was the way it was, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so you know, I'm hearing these
Speaker 1: stories about women in workplace situations. And we always heard
Speaker 1: about the casting couch. Now that we always heard about
Speaker 1: and we everybody just took it for granted that's the
Speaker 1: way it is. But now that's being undone and women
Speaker 1: can come forward and they can say it, they can
Speaker 1: talk about it, and they know it's something wrong with it.
Speaker 1: The only thing that I worry about is that I
Speaker 1: want and I think this will happen at some point
Speaker 1: in time. There has to be a way by which
Speaker 1: we have the opportunity to understand and is there a
Speaker 1: difference between rape and putting your hands on somebody and
Speaker 1: saying certain things? I mean, we got to figure all
Speaker 1: that out and tried to say that, uh, and he
Speaker 1: got damon ized, if you will, for making It's a
Speaker 1: very very fraught time right now, and think emotions are
Speaker 1: extremely high. Are you optimistic this is going to translate
Speaker 1: into changes in policies and especially even on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 1: I was shocked to hear that there was a whole
Speaker 1: fund to help people who had been accused of this, right,
Speaker 1: I mean to talk about that what? Yes, yes, as
Speaker 1: it's slight discrimination, uh, in the workplace and in government
Speaker 1: where you know, people have complaints and they're real, and
Speaker 1: so there has to be some structures that are designed
Speaker 1: to deal with that. We had one wasn't very good.
Speaker 1: We found it wasn't wasn't it designed primarily to pay
Speaker 1: off of victims. So yeah, well, I guess you know,
Speaker 1: and I guess we didn't pay enough attention to it.
Speaker 1: But we did find there were settlements that were made
Speaker 1: that was a thirty day cooling off period. All of
Speaker 1: that's being changed now the women have gotten together and
Speaker 1: they are redefining the kind of support that women should
Speaker 1: have who have complaints that they come forward with. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you a political question. Yes, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of optimism now among Democrats that you all can win
Speaker 1: the House this year. But there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: angst and a lot of consternation over the unpopularity of
Speaker 1: your leader Nancy Pelosi, and many Democrats have said it's
Speaker 1: time for her to step aside, that she's hurting the cause.
Speaker 1: What's your reaction to that. Well, first of all, I
Speaker 1: know Nanty Pelosi very well. We've worked in this state together,
Speaker 1: and we worked on voter registration many years ago. I
Speaker 1: think she might have been chair of the party at
Speaker 1: the time. She's strong, she's smart, and she's politically a
Speaker 1: genius really and we would not have Obamacare but for Nancy,
Speaker 1: and I can name probably a few other things. And
Speaker 1: so she has done a fabulous job. This attack on
Speaker 1: her started with Republicans, for sure. Yeah, they demonized her
Speaker 1: San Francisco Republican Nancy Pelosi, what have you? And they
Speaker 1: took it out and they worked it And so I
Speaker 1: don't like the fact that Democrats would pile on to
Speaker 1: what Republicans started and the way that they use this
Speaker 1: to demonize her. Of course, there has to be room
Speaker 1: for young people to come in. Look, I'm seventy nine
Speaker 1: years old, but the millenials like me, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. They're saying. But so I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's age as much as it is you know, how
Speaker 1: you frame what you do when you're the speaker, and
Speaker 1: she has been the speaker, and when you're the leader
Speaker 1: and you're balancing everything from the liberals, you know, to
Speaker 1: the conservatives in your party. It takes an expert and
Speaker 1: a good mind to do that. I like her. I
Speaker 1: don't think she should be driven out. I think that
Speaker 1: she's done a good job. I would stand up and
Speaker 1: defend her any day of the week. I don't know
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Of course, we have young people
Speaker 1: coming into the Democratic Party. They're hungry and they want
Speaker 1: to move up. I'm kind of from the old school,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm saying, look, you can't just jump
Speaker 1: over everybody, you know what I mean. It takes a
Speaker 1: little work, you know, to do this. And so I'm
Speaker 1: sympathetic among the millennials whom you're so popular. There's a
Speaker 1: there's a label you've been given lately. Anti. Yeah, can
Speaker 1: you explain that label for people who don't understand it.
Speaker 1: I can try and explain it. And I think the
Speaker 1: person who really kind of got it started works at
Speaker 1: All Magazine, a young creative writer, Eric Thomas, and I
Speaker 1: think he started and the way he describes it, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's complimentary in the beginning, and sometimes it's not. It's
Speaker 1: like that aunt who comes to your house, looks around
Speaker 1: and talks about things aren't right and things should be changed,
Speaker 1: and just because she's done a little bit better in
Speaker 1: her life and now she's got a good retirement and
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like I uh that uh, but it's like
Speaker 1: sometimes you do. And she's bossy uh she um, she
Speaker 1: takes advantage sometimes she schools. Uh. But but you know,
Speaker 1: when you're in hard times, in difficult she's always got
Speaker 1: that extra dollar to give you, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: it's that kind of thing. You know, you mentioned your
Speaker 1: seventy nine and we're going to let you go and
Speaker 1: enjoy the rest of your Sunday. But how long do
Speaker 1: you think you'll be doing this? Maxine? I haven't the
Speaker 1: slightest idea. Sometimes well, let me just say this, I
Speaker 1: am blessed in many ways because I have a lot
Speaker 1: of energy, and I have good health and I'm not tired. Ever,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I sometimes ask myself, why
Speaker 1: are you doing this? Why do you continue to do this?
Speaker 1: And then something good will happen, like Alabama, you know,
Speaker 1: and then you go, oh boy, we can at them
Speaker 1: now vote like Alabama. And so I go through these
Speaker 1: periods where I'm sometimes disgusted and I think, um, I
Speaker 1: should be off someplace enjoying life a different way. And
Speaker 1: then when something good and inspiring happens, and I see
Speaker 1: people being helped and you get a good story about,
Speaker 1: you know, something that happened to a family or veteran
Speaker 1: or childs or seniors, or I just get all inspired
Speaker 1: all over again, and it gives me more energy and
Speaker 1: I get up ready to go. If you say, God,
Speaker 1: bless those African American women in Alabama, oh God, yes,
Speaker 1: I mean to tell you, uh, you have to think
Speaker 1: about this. There was a time when in the South
Speaker 1: and Alabama, people were so intimidated they didn't even get
Speaker 1: registered to vote. They were fraid that the local grocery
Speaker 1: store was going to cut off their line of credit.
Speaker 1: They thought that someone's gonna come and force them out
Speaker 1: of their rental house. They went about to and just
Speaker 1: think how far they have home. They have come to
Speaker 1: the point where they're exercising power and I'm just thrilled
Speaker 1: about it. What's your prediction. I think we can take
Speaker 1: back the house. I think we can do that, not
Speaker 1: only because of Donald Trump, but a lot has to
Speaker 1: do with him. And I think now for people who
Speaker 1: had sold, sold, solid sold on the Democrats and the party,
Speaker 1: that they see a big difference now, the big difference.
Speaker 1: Like you know how some people say are it's no
Speaker 1: difference between Democrats and Republicans, they are all politics and
Speaker 1: not saying that. Now, Uh, they see that there's a
Speaker 1: big difference, and I think that's helping a lot. I
Speaker 1: think people are inspired. But you know, when you uh
Speaker 1: think about the women, the women's movement and what's happening
Speaker 1: with racism that now people stand up against as as
Speaker 1: you saw in Alabama when you took a look at
Speaker 1: those two candidates and how there's no way that a
Speaker 1: Democrat could have been elected to that Senate seat, but
Speaker 1: a Democrat was elected to that Senate seat, because not
Speaker 1: only are people not fearful and intimidated anymore, they inspire it.
Speaker 1: They know that there's a difference now and I'm glad
Speaker 1: that the young people are saying it, because if you
Speaker 1: haven't had the experience of racism upfront, if you have
Speaker 1: not been denied, if you've not have not been called
Speaker 1: the N word, if you've not been told you couldn't
Speaker 1: eat at a counter, you don't really get what these
Speaker 1: people are talking about. I mean, they don't really understand that,
Speaker 1: but I think now they get it. Well. Maxine Waters,
Speaker 1: thank you so much again for coming to visit us
Speaker 1: after church here in Los Angeles, and it's been really
Speaker 1: fun to watch you in action, especially in the last
Speaker 1: year or so. And uh, we'd love to have you
Speaker 1: back on because one thing is certain, we'll have plenty
Speaker 1: to talk about even in two weeks time, so maybe
Speaker 1: you'll come back down the road is the all our
Speaker 1: investigation continues, and have talked to us about that. I'll
Speaker 1: be happy to I try to keep the discussion going.
Speaker 1: I think that's so important. And thank you for keeping
Speaker 1: it going. Thank you for having me. He appreciate it.
Speaker 1: That wraps up this week show. The Invisible Studios in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles helped us out this morning on a Sunday morning,
Speaker 1: no less, so thank you to them. Add to our
Speaker 1: producer Gianna Palmer, who joined us in l A for
Speaker 1: this one. A little bit of a boon doggo, but
Speaker 1: we're glad she's here. Really selfless of you, Gianna, to
Speaker 1: abandoned snow in New York for l A to do
Speaker 1: this one with us. Anyway. Jared O'Connell, back in the cold,
Speaker 1: mixed this episode. Thank you to him. To our assistant
Speaker 1: producer Nora Richie as always, and to Emily being a
Speaker 1: over at Katie Current Media, My great assistant Beth Demas.
Speaker 1: I don't know how I would live without her. Moves Mountains,
Speaker 1: Alison Bresnik brings all things social media in for a
Speaker 1: smooth landing. Mark Phillips wrote our theme music, and Katie
Speaker 1: Kurriic and I are the executive producers of this show.
Speaker 1: So our wonder Women's series keeps on rolling. Next week,
Speaker 1: we'll talk to you then from Sonny, Los Angeles. Bye bye,
Speaker 1: bye bye