WEBVTT - Part Two: The Surprisingly Complicated History of Halloween

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to Cool People Do Cool Stuff your podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>That's normally not about holidays, but sometimes it's about holidays.

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<v Speaker 2>When it's a holiday like today, which is the holiday

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<v Speaker 2>known as Spooky Season. That's pretty much the only thing

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<v Speaker 2>I ever honestly call it. I don't even call it Halloween.

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<v Speaker 2>I just call it spooky time.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, and boy is it. I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Our spooky guest today is Jamie Loftus.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm actually I'm worrying. I changed into my spooky sweatshirt

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<v Speaker 1>for a candidate that I like. This is Boo. She's trimmed,

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<v Speaker 1>so one of my favorite spooky clothing items.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that. It's so good. We're so scary. It

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<v Speaker 2>just exist. It's enough to make people not sleep at night.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of a just a brilliant merch line by if

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<v Speaker 1>you live in Sokol maybe a girl. Oh yeah, she's great,

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<v Speaker 1>she's the best. I just performed it her drag show

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<v Speaker 1>fundraiser and cops a ghost sweatshirt. Very fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. The other voice

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<v Speaker 2>that you're hearing is Sophie. You all know this.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, Hi, I'm Sophie. It's me. Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>Our audio engineers.

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<v Speaker 1>Ian Hi, Ian Hi, Ian Hi, Sophie.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I feel like I have to, like now, I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like the podcast will fall apart if I don't

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<v Speaker 2>say Hi, Ian, Like It's like.

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<v Speaker 1>No, you're right, it will. We did that and Ian's

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that this sounds like a very early Stephen

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<v Speaker 1>King novel where Ian's life will somehow fall apart.

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<v Speaker 2>We better keep it up.

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<v Speaker 1>I in my life. So this is important that we

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<v Speaker 1>do this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. Our theme music is written for us by

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<v Speaker 2>un Woman, and this week we are talking about the

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<v Speaker 2>larger series of holidays that encompass Spooky Times. Spooky Times

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<v Speaker 2>is the large umbrella with you know all hallow Tide

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<v Speaker 2>and Halloween and La Muria. Everyone knows Lamia obviously, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean among us. Yeah, so today I promise you witch burning.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a weird thing to promise people, but there's

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<v Speaker 2>like they do some cool stuff before they get burned.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's honestly. The usual format of the show is

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<v Speaker 2>bad things happening to good people.

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<v Speaker 1>Are we going to my homeland in this episode? Boston

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<v Speaker 1>just Massachusetts Salem adjacent, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Not so much. Now we're gonna it's gonna be mostly

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<v Speaker 2>Scottish Wish trials. Oh, okay, interesting, but well before we

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<v Speaker 2>get to that, a thousand years before the early Catholic Church,

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, we should have a day to celebrate all

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<v Speaker 2>of our martyrs since people keep getting like flate alive

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<v Speaker 2>and crucified in shipt for being Christian, because there was

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<v Speaker 2>a period of time, very long time ago when anti

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<v Speaker 2>Christian impression was real for a couple hundred years. Different

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<v Speaker 2>areas use different days of you know, different calend days

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<v Speaker 2>for this. Some people use May thirteenth, the day of Lemuria.

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<v Speaker 2>I read one source claim of the earliest name of

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<v Speaker 2>the saint's remembrance day was Lamuria, but I suspect that

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<v Speaker 2>I was not able to confirm that. Okay, in either

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<v Speaker 2>the year six hundred and nine or six hundred and ten,

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<v Speaker 2>Pope Boniface the Fourth whose name should be Boniface, but

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<v Speaker 2>it is not for some weird reason.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I was like, is there a fun reason or did.

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<v Speaker 2>You know just spell Boniface?

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<v Speaker 1>And who is such a bummer when they're like and

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<v Speaker 1>the name is less fun now? And who can say why?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? All right, so Boniface the Fourth formalized the day

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<v Speaker 2>to May thirteenth, and was like fuck yeah, fuckla Muria.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what it is exactly how he said, Shitmuria. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a big shitstirr.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, I.

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<v Speaker 2>And friend of the Pod. Syncretism is happening all over Europe, right, ye,

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<v Speaker 2>people are christianizing a name and then continuing to do

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<v Speaker 2>whatever they actually want to do. In both, everyone's died

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<v Speaker 2>laughing because of something that the leader the listener doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>get to know. I just died.

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<v Speaker 1>Feless the way you said. It's so good. Sorry listeners,

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<v Speaker 1>you will never never know either. There are some things

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<v Speaker 1>that you're not trace that we are protecting you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So in both Bavaria, which is now part of

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<v Speaker 2>Germany and the British Isles, people were like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I know that Boniface said we should do it on

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<v Speaker 2>the May thirteenth, but what about November first, since that's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of when we want to do it, and when

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<v Speaker 2>we do this kind of shit anyway, that's our like

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<v Speaker 2>dead day anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably, So it's sort of like, let's just fold it

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<v Speaker 1>into the dead the existing dead day we have.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay. And so also people were like, and also

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<v Speaker 2>we should celebrate All Saints seat of just the Martyred

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<v Speaker 2>Saints in an all Saints matter way.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, whoa, Okay, this son is familiar,

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<v Speaker 1>but not in the same way.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, No, rights, Also the like Saint all Saints versus

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<v Speaker 2>like the Martyred Saints. You mean, yeah, I am under

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<v Speaker 2>the impression. So these names get really blurry or not blurry.

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<v Speaker 2>They change what they mean in ways that don't make

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<v Speaker 2>sense to me. Okay, because let's see, so well, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>get to it. By the year eight hundred, you've got

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<v Speaker 2>the Feast of All Saints spreading throughout the Christian world

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<v Speaker 2>because like All Saints Day wasn't necessarily these these names

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<v Speaker 2>didn't show up till later overall, so you get the

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<v Speaker 2>Feast of All Saints spreading around the Christian world around

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<v Speaker 2>the year eight hundred or so, except for the Eastern

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<v Speaker 2>Orthodox Church, which is like, we did. Our whole thing

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<v Speaker 2>is that we don't change our holidays for you motherfuckers.

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<v Speaker 2>So they kept theirs in the spring fifty days after

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<v Speaker 2>no on the Sunday after Pentecost, which is fifty days

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<v Speaker 2>after Easter, which I don't remember how to pick when. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a spring thing for them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people say that November first was picked because a Sowen.

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<v Speaker 2>Other people was like, no, the Germans did at first

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<v Speaker 2>and had nothing to do with sowen. See the aforementioned

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<v Speaker 2>people arguing about fucking everything constantly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>By the year eighteen thirty five, Pope Gregory the fourth

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<v Speaker 2>was like, sure, fine, what the fuck ever, Well, just

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<v Speaker 2>it's on November first. It's that's it, and you get

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<v Speaker 2>All Saints Day as we know it today, except no

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<v Speaker 2>one knows All Saints Day. People know Halloween. Then you

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<v Speaker 2>get All Souls Day the day after. Together it gets

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<v Speaker 2>the name All Hallows Tied or All hallow Tied, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's a holiday of remembering the dead, especially the people

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<v Speaker 2>who died in the last year. It's a day of

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<v Speaker 2>putting up memorial plaques, of lighting candles, of talking with

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<v Speaker 2>your dead friends. In Finland, which is largely Lutheran, graveyards

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<v Speaker 2>are a sea of light, as candles are placed on

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<v Speaker 2>graves in some places and where in Europe chrysanthemums are

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<v Speaker 2>placed on graves. In some places, people leave meals on

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<v Speaker 2>the graves of the dead. Some places, it's slightly different everywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's like spooky and interesting. Honestly. Some places insist

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<v Speaker 2>that the celebrations on the day be all somber and

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<v Speaker 2>serious and quiet. But then Halloween October thirty first, have

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't I actually didn't even know the etymology of Halloween.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like a poser. Have you heard the like

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<v Speaker 2>how it's Halloween? No, No, it's the Scot's abbreviation for

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<v Speaker 2>All Hallows Eve because evening was shortened to een.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh it's okay, wow, that is very Scottish as them

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<v Speaker 1>to do. So they just so the various punctuation just

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<v Speaker 1>like cycles itself out over time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you see people when they're like trying to

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<v Speaker 2>be a little bit like spooky, or maybe they just

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<v Speaker 2>actually live somewhere where people still do this, there'll still

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<v Speaker 2>be an apostrophe between the two ease.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that also just sounds like, yeah, like someone in

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<v Speaker 1>my neighborhood who had really who's really trying to prove something?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Absolutely, all Pedants Eve. And the reason it's all

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<v Speaker 2>Hollows Day is because All Saints Day and Sainted and

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<v Speaker 2>Hallowed are sort of synonymous, right, So all Hallows all

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<v Speaker 2>Saints sometimes called hallow Mass, which is a way more

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<v Speaker 2>metal word for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And then you get all Souls Day on November two,

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<v Speaker 2>the day after lots of places conflate all Saints Day

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<v Speaker 2>and all Souls Day and are like, whatever is just

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<v Speaker 2>the day for everyone who's dead?

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<v Speaker 1>And then I and maybe this is not the focus

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<v Speaker 1>of this episode, but like, how does the Day of

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<v Speaker 1>the Dead square with all of this too? Like was

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<v Speaker 1>that shifted from what? Was that always November first? Or

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<v Speaker 1>did that shift at any point in time?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I'm glad, Slush terrified you asked. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>about including this in the scripts, and I decided not to,

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<v Speaker 2>But now I'll just talk about it. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>hot debate about whether or not Day of the Dead

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<v Speaker 2>pre days Christianity, and there are pro Indigenous arguments on

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<v Speaker 2>both sides. Okay, are like no, this was a Christianization

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<v Speaker 2>of a thing, and other people being like, no, it wasn't.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's kind of the answer. It is

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<v Speaker 2>just mostly presented as that this is a specific indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>tradition or a pre Christian tradition that has always been

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<v Speaker 2>on this date. However, there are a lot of historians,

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<v Speaker 2>including indigenous historians in Mexico, who are making the argument

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<v Speaker 2>that that was like a specific propaganda thing in order

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<v Speaker 2>to do something and I don't know the answer.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting. Yeah, I truly was just curious where I was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it felt naive to be like, wow, all cultures agree

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<v Speaker 1>that this is just kind of the vibe this time

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<v Speaker 1>of year, but I just didn't know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's kind of where I came into it thinking, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's like, it makes sense to me that as

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<v Speaker 2>you watch the leaves fall off the.

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<v Speaker 1>Trees and yeah, like death rebirth.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like I think probably a ton of cultures like

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<v Speaker 2>and there's actually a bunch of East Asian and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>Southeast Asian cultures where a lot of the specific traditions

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<v Speaker 2>are also way pre date Christianity, and so like, I

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<v Speaker 2>think there is a vibe of this pre dating Christianity

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<v Speaker 2>all over the world. But it's like like I just

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<v Speaker 2>straight up don't know enough. I spent a while trying

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<v Speaker 2>to research it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fast. I mean, I don't know nearly enough about

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<v Speaker 1>Dadlis Martos. And there's I mean like because I live

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<v Speaker 1>close to the border, like there's a ton of celebration

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<v Speaker 1>and I just didn't know if it was connected.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, interesting, and then the other thing is like once

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<v Speaker 2>again it's like shit that comes out of some criticism

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<v Speaker 2>is still fucking beautiful, and like what part of it

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<v Speaker 2>came from what? Like, it is still absolutely a cultural

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<v Speaker 2>thing that is beautiful in matters, you know, and absolutely so,

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<v Speaker 2>and so with all Hollis Tide, All Saints Day is

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<v Speaker 2>for celebrating not just the Saints, but everyone who's made

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<v Speaker 2>it into Heaven. Where's all souls Day is a day

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<v Speaker 2>for praying for everyone who's trapped in purgatory. And since

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<v Speaker 2>most Protestants don't believe in purgatory, they don't they leave

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<v Speaker 2>that one out.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's so interesting that because I think because I

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<v Speaker 1>grew up such a like an amalgam of Christianity of

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like whatever was around, whatever was available, and

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it was not homophobic, that would be the place

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<v Speaker 1>we would go. And so I feel like the little

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<v Speaker 1>shades of gray and like Protestants don't believe in purgatory,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know and technically grew up Protestant at various times.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, and different Protestant denominations do and don't believe

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<v Speaker 2>in purgatory, but overall that's like kind of one of

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<v Speaker 2>the like it's usually the ones that are a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit closer to Catholicism that still don't believe in purgatory,

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<v Speaker 2>and then man, I felt on so many rabbit holes. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>people don't need to know about Catholic universalism. So the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that some people argue about whether everyone goes into

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<v Speaker 2>have or whether some people stay in like, it's all

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<v Speaker 2>fucking people like to argue about weird shit, about stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that no one can see, and it's kind of interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the reason that Halloween is celebrated is that

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<v Speaker 2>the early Church follow the Jewish tradition and the Celtic

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<v Speaker 2>tradition also in a bunch of other places tradition. And

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<v Speaker 2>the day starts the night before at sundown, so like,

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 2>which makes sense because at first you're like, why would

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.760
<v Speaker 2>the day start? Then you're like, well, the last day's over,

0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.680
<v Speaker 2>isn't it right right, So like, so the new day starts,

0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 2>and so you have all Hallow's Day starts with all

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:34.760
<v Speaker 2>hollows eve the night before.

0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that makes sense.

0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's a cool holiday. The whole thing celebrating

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.560
<v Speaker 2>your ancestors is fucking cool. Getting in touch with dead

0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.679
<v Speaker 2>is really useful for people, whether or not there's an afterlife.

0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.439
<v Speaker 1>I always was curious if you could be choosy about

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 1>which ancestors you do and do not want to welcome,

0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, probably because they're you know, not everyone has

0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.319
<v Speaker 1>the ancestors that they would be like, yeah, everyone come back.

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:01.600
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now yeah, you probably like you put up like

0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 2>a specific like John, stay out. You know, I killed

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:10.560
<v Speaker 2>you for a reason. Yeah.

0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The people, for example, your ancestors who you personally

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 1>have murdered, you're not going to want them back.

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. I built a time machine. It was very expensive.

0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.559
<v Speaker 2>So you've got these three holidays by the ninth century.

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 2>By the ninth century, you've got the trade one which

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.000
<v Speaker 2>I did not know the word, which is a name

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.599
<v Speaker 2>for a three day holiday. Okay, except for hundreds of

0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.959
<v Speaker 2>years it was an octave, an eight day holiday, because

0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.240
<v Speaker 2>everyone has always known that spooky season should be given

0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 2>some fucking breathing room. Sowyn was usually three days before

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>and three days after November one, so for a full

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.559
<v Speaker 2>week of spook times. And so the medieval period goes onward,

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:54.960
<v Speaker 2>and you know now that we've got the holiday, and

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.680
<v Speaker 2>now the medieval period hits, and the medieval period sucked

0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of people. During death, people in Europe

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 2>got really interested in death for some weird reason amadically,

0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:12.199
<v Speaker 2>and now you get that done. I know, Oh my god,

0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.320
<v Speaker 2>one day I'll do an episode about the like the

0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Black Death in women's rights, about how like women got

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 2>like so much more power in the Middle Ages after

0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.680
<v Speaker 2>everyone died, because then like they were allowed to like

0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.720
<v Speaker 2>own more property and like run more stuff because the

0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:26.520
<v Speaker 2>people are.

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 1>It's like World War two lodgic. Yeah, yes, I can

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 1>we talk about that?

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah sure, Well, I only know I would need to

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.400
<v Speaker 2>do more research. I have that level of it right now.

0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 1>That's so cool and also so depressing.

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>I know. And then there's also stuff where, like, at

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 2>least by late medieval period, I think in Western Europe,

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 2>women could own property if they were unmarried, and so

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 2>there's like all these women like trying to figure out

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>ways to stay unmarried. See our episode about murder their husbands.

0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Wow, So did it set off like a black widow

0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 1>epidemic kind of?

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, the black widow stuff that was a couple hundred

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 2>years later. The at least the episodes that we did

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 2>was on the like aquatafauna and the like the like

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 2>famous Italian poisoners and stuff like that, and how those

0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 2>just this thing where like the same lady you go

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 2>to for your your astrology and your abortion will also

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 2>like give you poison to kill your husband if he sucks.

0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 1>That's what happened in House of Gucci. Okay, I can

0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 1>get see you're wondering.

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I've never even heard of it. I don't know how

0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Scucci is.

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>That's all right, that meant something to someone, that's.

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it matters. So because of Black Death, you get

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 2>the Don's macabre, the dance of death, the image of

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 2>happy dancing skeletons, and like people are just like really

0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of thinking about dying a lot for some weird reason.

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 2>The other thing that happened, so that ties into some

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Halloween symbolism. That's why I'm tying throwing that part in.

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 2>The other thing that ties into Halloween way more than

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 2>I thought it would. It's the fucking witch hunts. You know,

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 2>people talk about like human progresses if it's linear, and

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 2>that's obviously not true.

0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmmm.

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 2>During most of the medieval period, the Catholic Church didn't

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 2>give a fuck about witches because witchcraft wasn't real, so

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 2>it was just pagan superstition. So why would you burn

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 2>people over superstition, which is very similar to the argument

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 2>that people nowadays make about the witch trials.

0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Also right, interesting, I'm like, okay, let them cook. I'm like, yeah,

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 1>unfortunately they cooked up some real shit. Just stirred that

0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.600
<v Speaker 1>shit in the cauldron.

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, according to early medieval stuff, no one was

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.160
<v Speaker 2>consorting with the devil. That's nonsense. He's not like a

0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:48.120
<v Speaker 2>guy who shows up and.

0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 1>He's like, ah, not a sexy guy that you'd want

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>to hang out with. Yeah.

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there was no need to burn people at the

0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:00.040
<v Speaker 2>stake about it. The first not the first inquisition, the

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 2>an inquisition that I don't know enough to say is

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>the first. But the Catholic Church put together an inquisition

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 2>in southern France and twelve thirty three, and this was

0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 2>to kill not witches but the weird heretical pescatarian communists, cultists,

0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.880
<v Speaker 2>the Cathars who may or may not be future friends

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>of the pot. But they're actually only like they're more

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.359
<v Speaker 2>like interesting than like cool. Anyway, the inquisition sticks around,

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 2>they kill a witch here or there. You start getting

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.720
<v Speaker 2>more and more like witch laws on stuff. But it's

0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.639
<v Speaker 2>not a it's like a thing that can happen, but

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.160
<v Speaker 2>you don't have the specific witches hang out with the

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.359
<v Speaker 2>devil thing until several hundred years later. Interesting, by the

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 2>end of the sixteenth century you get witch trials in

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:44.680
<v Speaker 2>fucking earnest. Protestants and Catholics like to argue about who

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.919
<v Speaker 2>was more evil during the witch hunts. Catholics pull ahead

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.640
<v Speaker 2>overall more evil because the witch hunts in southwest Germany

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 2>were the most brutal anywhere in Europe.

0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Rare w for Protestants.

0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:03.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but as relates to Sowyn and Halloween and spooky season,

0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna look over at Scotland where Protestants were really

0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:11.240
<v Speaker 2>unhappy about the syncretic Catholics and all their pagany goodness.

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.320
<v Speaker 2>And also they didn't like that people were like doing

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.000
<v Speaker 2>divination and playing mash and performing health care.

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, how dare they?

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So the witch hunts were a war on women,

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:25.880
<v Speaker 2>they were a warren traditional healing, they were a war

0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.639
<v Speaker 2>on Syncriticism, and they were a consolidation of power by

0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.159
<v Speaker 2>various Christian sects. The pagan horn gods are like the

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 2>fucking devil. This is where you start to see diabolic witchery.

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 2>You see the devil fucking witches and which is really

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.240
<v Speaker 2>interesting to me, is this like symbolism because one because

0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.440
<v Speaker 2>it's hot, Two because the nuns are married to Jesus

0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.439
<v Speaker 2>but never fuck. I mean they fuck each other, but

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:52.680
<v Speaker 2>they never get to fuck their husband.

0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, they all get to fuck Jesus.

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, whereas witches aren't married to Satan, but they get

0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:58.879
<v Speaker 2>to fuck him and each other constantly.

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yes, it seems like almost a better deal as

0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 1>long as as long as the proper consent is being exchanged.

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And there's just two strange sides of medieval saphism

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 2>as far as I can tell. Excellent. One day, well,

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.600
<v Speaker 2>one day I'm gonna do an episode about the women

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 2>who led peasant revolves and stuff. But first I'm going

0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 2>to tell you about six sick deals. You can go

0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.240
<v Speaker 2>to the store and.

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Buy stuff once again, you got my ass?

0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like just like show up with like a symbol,

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 2>like a little like thing like a green piece of

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.360
<v Speaker 2>paper that says five on it, and that's enough. Well

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 2>now it's not enough for shit. You can't even fucking.

0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 1>I's going on a rant again about in this economy.

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 2>In this economy, you can't even just write five on

0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.359
<v Speaker 2>a piece of paper and trade it for food anymore.

0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.840
<v Speaker 2>But what you can do is listen to ads or

0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 2>oh hey, cool Zone media directly by setting up for

0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:01.199
<v Speaker 2>cool is the Media, and then you don't have to

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 2>hear ads. And either way, it supports people making podcasts

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 2>that you all clearly don't hate because you're listening, unless

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.520
<v Speaker 2>you're hate listening, in which case what are you doing

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:14.080
<v Speaker 2>with your life?

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I'm like, if you're hate listening, uh, I've passed

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 1>the point where I'm going to scold you for it.

0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 1>I know, A streams a stream.

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I'm going to just say things in order

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.200
<v Speaker 2>to get people to know I'm not going to do that. Uh.

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Jokes on you, bitch.

0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 2>You played yourself. Yeah, that's right, just like you're about

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 2>to play these ads. Yea, And we're back. So I'm

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 2>going to quote from an anonymous article called Devil's Night

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:50.240
<v Speaker 2>that was republished by a public a press called ill Will,

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.480
<v Speaker 2>and it was originally published in Mass magazine. It's anonymous,

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:54.560
<v Speaker 2>so I have to give you all these things so

0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 2>if anyone has a chance to possibly find it. It

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.159
<v Speaker 2>talks about a book by Sylvia Federici called Calaban the

0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:05.919
<v Speaker 2>Witch quote, which is just the book that kind of

0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 2>does the most of discussing the witch hunts as like

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 2>a war on women and ties it into primitive accumulation

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and all this kind of interesting theory stuff. But here's

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.040
<v Speaker 2>our quote. Federici traces the lineage of this coordinated mass

0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 2>murder beyond just the Christian elitees fear of paganism into

0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 2>a whole world of popular peasant revolts and the powerful,

0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 2>undomesticated women who likely organized them. By highlighting that many

0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.720
<v Speaker 2>of these women lived alone, relied on public assistance, were

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 2>sexually promiscuous, and encouraged nonprocreative sex by means of contraception

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:47.399
<v Speaker 2>and abortions. I know, early state builders were able to

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:52.280
<v Speaker 2>target these embodied impediments to patriarchal governance, heteronormativity, population growth,

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>compulsory labor, domestication, and social order, in a word, civilization

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.439
<v Speaker 2>by portraying them as enemies to life self and so

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:05.919
<v Speaker 2>basically they kind of create the category of witch. Like

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.159
<v Speaker 2>there wasn't a before the witch hunts. There was a

0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:13.399
<v Speaker 2>bunch of different people doing witchy things under a bunch

0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:17.119
<v Speaker 2>of names, and they were diverse people, living diverse lives,

0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.960
<v Speaker 2>but outside the new social norm that was being built

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.719
<v Speaker 2>up as like the Christian state was being made, you know,

0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.960
<v Speaker 2>and so they get accused of murdering infants, and therefore

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 2>let's murder all of them and anyone who's ever looked

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 2>at them.

0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it is, I mean whatever, far from

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the first person to make this observation, but the idea

0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 1>that like, if you are not having sex in the

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:45.439
<v Speaker 1>interest of creating infants, then surely you have a vested

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.920
<v Speaker 1>interest in killing existing infants. Where you're just like, what

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:55.360
<v Speaker 1>is this like perverted lodge, you know, like the idea

0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.880
<v Speaker 1>of like I don't know, just like not wanting an

0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:03.879
<v Speaker 1>infant yourself, not even in it, you know, indefinite sense,

0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 1>but just today equals that you wish all babies dead.

0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Which I think that there is still a version of

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that logic that exists now, but you know, it's just

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:20.960
<v Speaker 1>like such baby little bean brain logic. All right, Well,

0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.920
<v Speaker 1>these these these witches sound great.

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, they're they're they're.

0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 1>They're sucking, fucking, and mining their own business. Yeah, the

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:30.679
<v Speaker 1>three amazing qualities.

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. And one of the things that actually surprised

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:40.640
<v Speaker 2>me to learn this anti witch hysteria wasn't as populist

0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.439
<v Speaker 2>as people think before there was the mass hysteria, and

0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:49.280
<v Speaker 2>like neighbor accusing neighbor, there were people who literally went

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.040
<v Speaker 2>town to town and taught people how to be pieces

0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>of shit about this.

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:57.720
<v Speaker 1>They would like, I mean that feels familiar. Yeah, YouTube

0:23:58.240 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 1>was for for a while.

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, And so they would teach people how to

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 2>recognize witches. And before that everyone's like, whatever, it's the

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 2>lady who like, you know, means that I can continue

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>to cheating my husband or whatever, you know.

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:13.720
<v Speaker 1>An important part of society.

0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is so, which means that the witch hunts

0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:20.320
<v Speaker 2>were in many ways top down, and we're going to

0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:21.840
<v Speaker 2>take it all the way up to the top. That's

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:23.760
<v Speaker 2>not a we're gonna we're gonna tie it into a

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:28.399
<v Speaker 2>king pretty soon, okay, but it is a a top

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 2>down method of the destruction of women and wildness and freedom.

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:33.879
<v Speaker 2>Because something that's come up before on the show is

0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 2>that in the medieval European mind, the idea of womanness

0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:43.200
<v Speaker 2>was wildness, irrationality, chaos and like non civilization. Excellent, Yeah,

0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I know, I'll take it.

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:48.720
<v Speaker 2>And as for the witch's Sabbath, the midnight gathering of women,

0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:53.159
<v Speaker 2>these might have happened, right like the women would go

0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 2>and fucking go do things in the woods. It's like

0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 2>a thing people would probably do, right, They would do

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.000
<v Speaker 2>this for a thousand different reason. One of them was

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:05.160
<v Speaker 2>probably peasants plotting revolts against classic enemy of the pod,

0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:08.679
<v Speaker 2>the Enclosure of the Commons, which is happening. I promised

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 2>you I'd work in the enclosure of the Commons.

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:13.680
<v Speaker 1>That's something that I never had really considered. But also

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:17.439
<v Speaker 1>it makes total sense where it's like, why are they

0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:19.240
<v Speaker 1>always in the woods? It's a go. Perhaps they are

0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:24.480
<v Speaker 1>evading surveillance. Maybe that's maybe they don't feel safe outside.

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, is anything changing about society? And are there armed

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.240
<v Speaker 2>revolts around it? Hmmm, must be unrelated to what women

0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 2>are doing.

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Why would you go to a place where you maybe

0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:35.040
<v Speaker 1>couldn't be as easily detected.

0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fascinating, Okay, okay. And then as a tangent, but

0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:40.560
<v Speaker 2>just while people have their Bengo cards out and we

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 2>just crossed off, Margret talks about the Enclosure of the Commons.

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 2>I can tie the industrial workers of the world into Halloween.

0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:49.440
<v Speaker 1>God damn it serious.

0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:53.399
<v Speaker 2>Because one of their logos, one of their old logos,

0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:57.320
<v Speaker 2>is a black cat called Sabo cat great, and it

0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:00.679
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely and intentionally a witch style old cat with

0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 2>like hair raised and stuff, you know, and it is

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:08.320
<v Speaker 2>the symbol for industrial sabotage done by the workers. Anyway,

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:12.920
<v Speaker 2>witch hunts. Why do these witch hunts tie to Halloween?

0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Besides of course witches being cool, right, and Halloween being cool.

0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 1>And black cats being cool.

0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Unfortunately, the way that they get tight well

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:26.400
<v Speaker 2>we'll hear about it. So this is the same medieval

0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 2>period where the holiday that the Christians built starts turning

0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:33.880
<v Speaker 2>on them, right, they built this Halloween holiday, Halloween comes from.

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:35.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, it has a lot of these

0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.000
<v Speaker 2>roots and these other things, but it is like a

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:41.280
<v Speaker 2>pretty actually Christian holiday. But it also then becomes the

0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:46.640
<v Speaker 2>time of witches, sabbaths and black magic. And to quote

0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:50.560
<v Speaker 2>a writer named Louisia Morro, the choice of all hallows

0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>all hollows as a major holiday for witches and devils

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.480
<v Speaker 2>was no doubt coerced from the accused with a political

0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:04.160
<v Speaker 2>agenda in mind. Because there's this king and he's a bastard.

0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:07.119
<v Speaker 2>All kings are bastard, but this guy, there's another a

0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:08.200
<v Speaker 2>cap the other.

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just a kind of like spelling cool with a K.

0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.119
<v Speaker 2>I know, although I usually hate when anyone replaces a

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:15.680
<v Speaker 2>C with a K. It's usually a bad sign.

0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:19.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but but you know, in this case, if at

0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:21.399
<v Speaker 1>least applicable, exactly cool.

0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this king is extra bad, as I have learned

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:27.920
<v Speaker 2>by guests telling me I should not say he is

0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:29.919
<v Speaker 2>a baddie, but it's instead.

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Bad Margaret, Yeah, I wish I could have been the

0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:39.360
<v Speaker 1>one to tell you, yeah, baddie. The vernacular is shifted

0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:41.040
<v Speaker 1>in a way that I'm very in favor of.

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh yeah, no, totally yeah, I'm I know things

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:48.120
<v Speaker 2>now I didn't many ways say that you yourself are

0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:50.119
<v Speaker 2>perhaps a baddie. Thank you.

0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're welcome.

0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:54.560
<v Speaker 2>So there's a king named King James the sixth and

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 2>first he is I'm assuming both. Yeah, no, absolutely boo,

0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:02.320
<v Speaker 2>he is both because of some nonsensical rich people bullshit.

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 2>In fifteen eighty nine, he sails off to Denmark to

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.479
<v Speaker 2>marry his queen to be Anne of Denmark, but a

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:13.600
<v Speaker 2>furious storm rose up and he was driven to shore elsewhere.

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 2>He had had to divert his fleet, and he consulted

0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:20.600
<v Speaker 2>with a Danish demonologist, and the guy was like witches,

0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:23.800
<v Speaker 2>definitely witches. That's how you got the storm totally was

0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:24.439
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of witches.

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Check please, I know I suspect it's witches. That will

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.240
<v Speaker 1>be one thousand medieval dollars.

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Of course, if your job is demonologist, what

0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 2>answer do you think the guy's going to give.

0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:43.840
<v Speaker 1>You, really one of the best scams going to this day, demonologist,

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:47.960
<v Speaker 1>easy money. Yeah, I suspect it as a demon yeah,

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 1>quoth whomever? Yeah? Great.

0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 2>And if there's two things that King James the sixth

0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and first, I don't understand why you can't add them together,

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.920
<v Speaker 2>be the seventh there are two things he hated. It

0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:02.880
<v Speaker 2>was witches and it was women.

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, surely these things aren't connected.

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.440
<v Speaker 2>No, and he's not one of the people who did. Actually,

0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:12.240
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the connection of the two actually start

0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 2>tying into your uncle's job.

0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 1>All right.

0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:17.280
<v Speaker 2>If there's a third thing he hates, it's Catholics, but

0:29:17.320 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>we'll tie that in later.

0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:23.880
<v Speaker 2>So there are two witches, sorry, two witch hunts in

0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:29.280
<v Speaker 2>two different countries related to this one storm. First, in Denmark,

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:32.800
<v Speaker 2>thirteen women are arrested and burned at the stake, including

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Anna Colding's mother of the devil, which is a sick

0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 2>title to earn, you.

0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:41.840
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah, I mean yeah, if nothing else.

0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we know they were guilty because after they

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:49.880
<v Speaker 2>can they confessed, after torture, and they confess that they

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:53.240
<v Speaker 2>caused the storm by summoning demons to hide aboard the ship,

0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 2>who then climbed up the masts and caused the storm.

0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Sure, and I mean they were only provoked successively to

0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 1>near death to have to admit this.

0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, women are saying, you know, they don't like

0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:10.440
<v Speaker 2>telling the truth, right, we are famously liars. Yeah, totally,

0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:13.760
<v Speaker 2>we all know this. Yeah, the room is absolutely completely bright.

0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:19.560
<v Speaker 2>What are you talking about? So thirteen dead women is

0:30:19.600 --> 0:30:22.400
<v Speaker 2>not enough for King James, also known as the person

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:24.440
<v Speaker 2>who oversaw the translation of the Bible that right wing

0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:27.800
<v Speaker 2>people love today. No way, Yeah, the King James Bible.

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:30.000
<v Speaker 2>And then actually, what's funny is that.

0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:33.480
<v Speaker 1>With the chances there's been so many of those motherfuckers

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>and it's that one.

0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And one of the reasons that it's like people

0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 2>like it, it's a really beautiful translation because he was

0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:44.480
<v Speaker 2>a Yeah, he was a gay man who really liked

0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:47.480
<v Speaker 2>things to be pretty and like put a lot of

0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>care into stuff.

0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:53.440
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, we have to that's a best for another day. Yeah,

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 1>good lord, So.

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:57.800
<v Speaker 2>He needs to kill some more women. What if Scottish

0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 2>women were in on it too. Scott is soon going

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:02.520
<v Speaker 2>to be one of the world leaders in the murder

0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 2>of women. But at this point there weren't too many

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 2>witch trials there actually, partly because in this place the

0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Catholics were kind of on the like whatever, syncretism is fine,

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 2>who gives a shit?

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:15.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, kind of a nascent industry. Yeah, yeah, but

0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:18.520
<v Speaker 1>I bet someone's going to be like, wait, there's potential

0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 1>for growth and always the industry of dealing with it.

0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And actually a lot of the people get accused

0:31:23.000 --> 0:31:24.640
<v Speaker 2>of witchcraft are very high up in their towns, and

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:27.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm certain that there's like direct political things behind all

0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:32.600
<v Speaker 2>of it. You know, sure makes sense. So they've arrested

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 2>a serving girl named Gellye Duncan, and I think this.

0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I think she was arrested prior to the I read

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of articles about this, but they're all very

0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:44.680
<v Speaker 2>like popit. I mean, I run a pop history podcast.

0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I can't really complain, but like, anyway, she's arrested and

0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:51.760
<v Speaker 2>her employer knows she's It's pretty sure she's a witch

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:56.520
<v Speaker 2>because she one is really good at healing. How fucking

0:31:56.560 --> 0:32:00.200
<v Speaker 2>weird is that? And two sometimes she sneaks out at

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 2>night from the house that she's like forced to live

0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:09.720
<v Speaker 2>in as a serving girl. All very suspicious, but it

0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:12.160
<v Speaker 2>becomes even more obviously just a witch because they strip

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>her naked and shave her head to toe and lo

0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:18.200
<v Speaker 2>and behold, Yeah, there's gonna be some misogynst violence in here.

0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll try not to linger on it. Lo and behold,

0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.320
<v Speaker 2>she has a birthmark on her neck. The proof is

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:28.440
<v Speaker 2>right there. And she denied everything at first, but fortunately

0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:31.520
<v Speaker 2>they got the truth out of her after a while somehow,

0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and she confessed and named names.

0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:39.880
<v Speaker 1>So surely no one shaving her had birthmarks themselves, that

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:41.720
<v Speaker 1>would be that would be shocking.

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, No, one just has birthmarks. That's not why

0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.720
<v Speaker 2>they're called birthmarks, although they specifically call them devil's marks,

0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:52.480
<v Speaker 2>and specifically the devil would lick you in intimate places

0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:53.800
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes it would leave a mark.

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 1>That's something that I my mom would tell me, not

0:32:57.600 --> 0:32:59.560
<v Speaker 1>from the devil but God. The reason that we have

0:32:59.640 --> 0:33:05.400
<v Speaker 1>they'll ridge fil between the nose is that before you

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:10.160
<v Speaker 1>leave Heaven to be born, God goes sh and puts

0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:13.440
<v Speaker 1>his finger and it just is shut tell me my secrets.

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, and.

0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Then show and then shoves you down though whatever, oh

0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.520
<v Speaker 1>that you go through to be born. But yeah, it

0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 1>was like the shush, the shut the fuck up mark,

0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:27.480
<v Speaker 1>oh that all humans have. And if you meet someone

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:29.960
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't have to shut the fuck up, Mark, they

0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 1>know shit and they'll tell.

0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 2>You okay, okay.

0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:38.400
<v Speaker 2>So after she reveals the secrets.

0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:40.560
<v Speaker 1>She didn't have to shut the fuck up Mark.

0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:40.720
<v Speaker 4>No.

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Between sixty and two hundred witches, mostly but not exclusively

0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>women are now put on trial. And it's a fun

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:53.479
<v Speaker 2>historical note to tie into your uncle. About ten to

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.000
<v Speaker 2>fifteen percent of the people killed for being witches and

0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 2>medieval Europe were men, and the concept of dividing it

0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:04.120
<v Speaker 2>between witch and wizard or warlock is more modern coming

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:08.280
<v Speaker 2>centuries later, once again showing that progress isn't linear because

0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I think men could be witches.

0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:16.960
<v Speaker 1>It's truly why not? And also just to like equalize

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.200
<v Speaker 1>justifying killing them for no reason.

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally. So there are these huge trials, the

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Berwick witch Trials, and King James the sixth then first

0:34:29.120 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 2>shows up in person. He's only one guy because he's

0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:34.799
<v Speaker 2>fucking obsessed with witchcraft and he's trying to figure out

0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, oh they fucking cause the storm, right, you

0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:40.239
<v Speaker 2>know all these witches, and there's one witch who is

0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:43.920
<v Speaker 2>the evilest and baddest witch of them all, Agnes Samson.

0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>She's a baddie. She is a baddie, yeah.

0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Because she's gonna do some She does some cool shit.

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:54.680
<v Speaker 2>It has some negative consequences, but it's worth it, all right.

0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:57.959
<v Speaker 2>So she's torture for days before the trial. She's left

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Shane to a wall by her face using what's called

0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 2>a witch's bridle or a scolds bridle or a nag's bridle.

0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Have you heard of this?

0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:08.640
<v Speaker 1>For fox sake? I don't. Maybe I would visually recognize that.

0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:09.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:11.960
<v Speaker 2>It is a device that goes over the head and

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:14.480
<v Speaker 2>like forces a bit into the victim's mouth to keep

0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:17.239
<v Speaker 2>it from talking. Sometimes the spikes on the inside of it.

0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do know what you're talking about. Yeah.

0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:21.440
<v Speaker 2>I had to look this one up to check if

0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:24.279
<v Speaker 2>it was real, because I'm very like fool me once

0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:28.040
<v Speaker 2>about the Iron Maiden. Sure, because the Iron Maiden is

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:30.520
<v Speaker 2>a nineteenth century invention where they were like look how

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 2>barbaric the medieval people were, and they like made up

0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:37.839
<v Speaker 2>a thing. Medieval people absolutely would have used the Iron Maiden.

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:39.440
<v Speaker 2>They just didn't happen to think of it.

0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:40.200
<v Speaker 1>They did.

0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Like I cut out so much torture and execution methods

0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 2>from the show every now and then I feel like

0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:48.920
<v Speaker 2>I have to include it to like give a picture

0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:52.800
<v Speaker 2>of it. I have read so many ways that medieval

0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:55.799
<v Speaker 2>people have killed each other, usually by way.

0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Why would they be like, no, this is where I

0:35:58.080 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 1>draw the line. Yeah, it's just it was a lie

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:02.239
<v Speaker 1>of ingenuity. No one could live long enough to have

0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:02.800
<v Speaker 1>that idea.

0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly because they kept getting thrown into, thrown off

0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:07.640
<v Speaker 2>of rooftops and sacks.

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:16.200
<v Speaker 2>So there's absolutely the scolds bridle, and it is absolutely

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.719
<v Speaker 2>a shut the fuck up woman, It's just a it's

0:36:18.760 --> 0:36:21.640
<v Speaker 2>just a tool misogyny. Also real and deployed during the

0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:24.759
<v Speaker 2>interrogations was the breast ripper, which is does what it

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:29.200
<v Speaker 2>says it does, okay, and it is a way to

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:33.400
<v Speaker 2>remove parts of people's bodies. Could you imagine inventing the

0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:35.239
<v Speaker 2>breast ripper and thinking you are on the side of

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:36.280
<v Speaker 2>the angels.

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I unfortunately can very clearly hear someone saying that and

0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 1>believing it.

0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess that's the problem with like religious systems

0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 2>like this. So Agnes Sampson, after days chained to a

0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:59.560
<v Speaker 2>wall by her face, she confesses, and according to her

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:04.720
<v Speaker 2>torture confessions, these witches, mostly women, hundreds of them, slipped

0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:06.720
<v Speaker 2>into the woods at night to dance with the devil

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and kiss his butt cheeks. Since then, and since they

0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:15.240
<v Speaker 2>hated James just so so much and they just didn't

0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:17.440
<v Speaker 2>want to be happy, right, you know, they went to

0:37:17.480 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the graveyard, disinterred corpses, cut them up, and then on

0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:24.440
<v Speaker 2>sowin they rode out into see into the sea in sieves,

0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:28.279
<v Speaker 2>which was like a classic witch thing is to Yeah,

0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:31.359
<v Speaker 2>then tied either living or dead cats depending on which

0:37:31.440 --> 0:37:35.080
<v Speaker 2>version you read, to the body parts, and then throw

0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 2>them into the water. This summoned the storm that almost

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:43.720
<v Speaker 2>killed James. Never mind the fact that other witches had

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:46.720
<v Speaker 2>had already confessed and been executed for the exact same crime.

0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:51.120
<v Speaker 1>I just always find it interesting that, I mean, it's

0:37:51.320 --> 0:37:53.680
<v Speaker 1>evil and there's like such a long history of it,

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 1>but just like the logic behind being like and they

0:37:57.360 --> 0:38:00.760
<v Speaker 1>figured this out, You're like, what sort of scientific method

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:05.960
<v Speaker 1>process don't think this went through. Like we tried like

0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:12.080
<v Speaker 1>strapping rabbits and to corpses, but that the results you know,

0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:15.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of diminishing returns there. So then we started slaughtering cats,

0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:16.920
<v Speaker 1>and then we started slaughtering like.

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:21.560
<v Speaker 3>It's just I mean it is, it's obviously absurd, but

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.960
<v Speaker 3>it's just it just feels like there's no like even

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:31.560
<v Speaker 3>ADUs c much less further, it's what goofballs that were

0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:35.680
<v Speaker 3>needlessly slaughtering women, I know, what dufises.

0:38:35.560 --> 0:38:38.399
<v Speaker 2>What fools And the imagination of one side where they're

0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:41.120
<v Speaker 2>like and this is how we like summon the storm

0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:43.839
<v Speaker 2>is like way less harmful than the imagination of what

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:45.640
<v Speaker 2>new ways can we come up with the torture and

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:49.879
<v Speaker 2>murder people? You know, right? Yeah, So King James shows

0:38:49.960 --> 0:38:53.719
<v Speaker 2>up and he goes in person and supposedly he this

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:56.319
<v Speaker 2>is like where he like he like starts off skeptical.

0:38:56.400 --> 0:38:58.400
<v Speaker 2>He's like, I don't know if I even believe in witches,

0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and I actually don't buy that part. But you know,

0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:03.520
<v Speaker 2>since he's like the evil Molder, he wants to believe.

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:09.279
<v Speaker 2>And so Agnes Samson, she's like, you know what, fuck

0:39:09.320 --> 0:39:12.800
<v Speaker 2>this guy, you don't believe her witches come here. She

0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:15.440
<v Speaker 2>leans in. He leans in close to her, and she

0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:18.640
<v Speaker 2>whispers into his ear and she tells him the private

0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:20.120
<v Speaker 2>details of his own wedding night.

0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I like her.

0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:28.359
<v Speaker 2>This to James proves that she's a witch. Don't get

0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:33.240
<v Speaker 2>me wrong. I hope she was. But apparently royal wedding

0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:37.480
<v Speaker 2>nights were literally public events. There were court people in

0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 2>attendance to make sure the wedding was consummated.

0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 1>I believe. I mean that tracks. Yeah, so was she

0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:51.040
<v Speaker 1>just like kind of reading an article to him and

0:39:51.080 --> 0:39:54.319
<v Speaker 1>he's like, oh, reading the public record back to him, right,

0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Like either some gossip got out or she did magic,

0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:02.440
<v Speaker 1>or she did the thing that every fortune teller in

0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:04.680
<v Speaker 1>history knows how to do, which is a cold read.

0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or you know, say what they're what you think

0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:08.520
<v Speaker 2>is likely?

0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:14.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like you know you like what you did technically,

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.279
<v Speaker 1>fuck but you weren't very good at it.

0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:21.319
<v Speaker 2>He's like, you like me more, which is true in

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:21.840
<v Speaker 2>this case.

0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 1>How could that? How could she know? Yeah, we got

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:25.760
<v Speaker 1>a killer?

0:40:25.960 --> 0:40:29.799
<v Speaker 2>She knows I'm gay, And I'm like sad because it's

0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:32.800
<v Speaker 2>like such a good owned to do, Like be like, fine,

0:40:32.800 --> 0:40:34.839
<v Speaker 2>fuck you I am a witch right before you die

0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to spoiler alert, she does not survive this. On the

0:40:37.600 --> 0:40:41.319
<v Speaker 2>other hand, he goes, well, we'll tell you what he does,

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:46.479
<v Speaker 2>but first I want to tell you about Oh, what's

0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:50.719
<v Speaker 2>what's what sponsor should we have for this podcast? Cats

0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:55.640
<v Speaker 2>live ones that you don't if you do magic with them,

0:40:55.680 --> 0:41:00.719
<v Speaker 2>it's like they're willing participants. This brought to you by Familiars.

0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:06.839
<v Speaker 2>That is our sponsor this week is Familiars love that. Yeah,

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and nothing familiar is only yeah. Now hopefully you don't

0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:12.680
<v Speaker 2>hear anything else. If it was, it was a mistake

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:21.359
<v Speaker 2>and we're back. So about probably about sixty people were

0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:23.000
<v Speaker 2>executed at the end of this trial. I've read all

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 2>kinds of numbers and this is a very consequential event

0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:32.839
<v Speaker 2>in history. This opened the floodgates for witch trials in Scotland.

0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 2>There are three thy one hundred accused witches in Scotland.

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:40.759
<v Speaker 2>Over the next hundred years, thirteen hundred of them are executed.

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:46.800
<v Speaker 2>It also turned James into an anti witchcraft zealot. He

0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:50.879
<v Speaker 2>wrote a whole fucking book called Demonologies that actually talks

0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:54.239
<v Speaker 2>about Lamurres, the ghosts from Pagan Rome and call Back

0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:54.840
<v Speaker 2>to Monday.

0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.640
<v Speaker 1>That's so funny that it's like I mean today with

0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:01.680
<v Speaker 1>like today algorith my logic would be, like you enjoyed

0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:06.000
<v Speaker 1>the King James Bible, would you want to read Demonologists

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:09.400
<v Speaker 1>by King James relevant to your interest?

0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:15.439
<v Speaker 2>Well, but that's not that, because yeah, his big thing.

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.640
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't like writing being like, obviously everyone knows about

0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:20.520
<v Speaker 2>witches and demons and so I'm just going to write

0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:23.279
<v Speaker 2>down it. He was trying to convince people that they

0:42:23.280 --> 0:42:26.400
<v Speaker 2>were real. Because this is even though the witch trials

0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:29.520
<v Speaker 2>are starting to kick in overall, people are like, what

0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:33.080
<v Speaker 2>are you fucking talking about? This is some superstitious nonsense.

0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:37.320
<v Speaker 2>The devil isn't hanging out in the woods with horns

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:39.239
<v Speaker 2>making ladies kisses butt.

0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh but is he just like doubling down and down

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.839
<v Speaker 1>and down until people sort of start to capitulate to it.

0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he's fucking king, which is a he.

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:51.800
<v Speaker 1>It's true.

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:58.120
<v Speaker 2>And so in this book he writes about women. It's

0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:00.440
<v Speaker 2>it's not very progressive.

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Of quote, not a have to cancel k chain.

0:43:04.840 --> 0:43:06.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a problematic king.

0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:11.440
<v Speaker 1>That's a brutal quote.

0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:14.240
<v Speaker 2>What can be the cause that there are twenty women

0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:17.000
<v Speaker 2>given to that craft where there is one man? The

0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:20.719
<v Speaker 2>reason is easy, whereas that sex is frailer than man is,

0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:23.560
<v Speaker 2>So it is it easier to be entrapped in these

0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>gross snares of the devil, as was overwell prove it

0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:30.040
<v Speaker 2>provided to be true by the serpents deceiving Eve at

0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:33.480
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, which makes him the more familiar with that

0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:35.280
<v Speaker 2>sex since that time.

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Trauma queen. Yeah yeah, all right, well let him cook.

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:46.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure he's working up says some cool ideas.

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The Trials also cemented Sowyn as the time for

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:54.759
<v Speaker 2>which is to dance with the devil and kiss a

0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 2>sweet button. My theory, he was probably walking up and

0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:00.600
<v Speaker 2>down out of Hell, working ouse glutes.

0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:03.719
<v Speaker 1>You know, sure, yeah, you get to. I mean, look,

0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:08.719
<v Speaker 1>witches aren't kissing that butt for nothing. There's some there's

0:44:08.719 --> 0:44:11.240
<v Speaker 1>some appeal to that butt. Yeah.

0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:13.880
<v Speaker 2>They were pretty much just millennials ahead of their time.

0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Real worship of the butt. Yeah yeah, yeah.

0:44:21.760 --> 0:44:24.880
<v Speaker 2>The sailing and a sieve was cemented forever by Shakespeare

0:44:24.920 --> 0:44:29.080
<v Speaker 2>soon after, when the witches of Macbeth say, but in

0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:32.040
<v Speaker 2>a sieve, i'll thither sail, and like a rat without

0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:35.960
<v Speaker 2>a tail, i'll sew, I'll do, I'll do, And then

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:42.960
<v Speaker 2>they conjure up a storm. Now, King James also hated Catholics,

0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:45.920
<v Speaker 2>and this is tied into it because Scotland was like

0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:47.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of on a like what if we don't burn

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 2>all our healers alive and what.

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:54.120
<v Speaker 1>If we didn't light every woman interested in ostensibly science

0:44:54.280 --> 0:44:54.840
<v Speaker 1>on fire?

0:44:55.320 --> 0:45:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally. And so James is like, he's Protestant.

0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 2>That's a big hole, big complicated thing. It's a big

0:45:03.680 --> 0:45:07.000
<v Speaker 2>part of his identity. And Catholics have always been distrusted

0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 2>by various rulers because of foreign allegiances, and England didn't

0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>like having the Catholic Highlands in Scotland since France was,

0:45:13.440 --> 0:45:17.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, Catholic and France is the bad guy forever, right,

0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:21.240
<v Speaker 2>and then also their forgiveness for syncretics got the Catholics

0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:25.320
<v Speaker 2>branded as Pagans by the Anglicans. I'm fine with this. Also,

0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:28.480
<v Speaker 2>the Catholics deified Mary, and James is a misogynist, so

0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:32.000
<v Speaker 2>he's like, well, what the fuck? They basically worship a women,

0:45:32.200 --> 0:45:35.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, and you know, since the Catholics were into

0:45:35.480 --> 0:45:38.000
<v Speaker 2>having a goddess Mary and women were irrational, so I

0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:40.480
<v Speaker 2>better go kill thirteen hundred women in Scotland.

0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:44.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, we're just using logic that makes total sense.

0:45:45.080 --> 0:45:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now, for all your numerology heads, I'm not when

0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:51.480
<v Speaker 2>I hate this stuff. I'm just making a joke with this.

0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:56.759
<v Speaker 2>What ties into the conspiracy to kill King James the

0:45:56.960 --> 0:45:57.919
<v Speaker 2>sixth and the one?

0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, I'm like not against that, honestly.

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, V for Vendetta V five right eh, Okay,

0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>if you remove the if you subtract the one from

0:46:09.000 --> 0:46:14.440
<v Speaker 2>the anyway, whatever the fuck. Okay. So the other conspiracy

0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:17.400
<v Speaker 2>that tried to kill fucking James was the V for Vendetta.

0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Guy the fifth of November, you said you'd never forget

0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Jamie Guy Fox.

0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:27.040
<v Speaker 1>I remembered him. I see his little mask a spirit

0:46:27.080 --> 0:46:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Halloween and Burbank I remember him, I know.

0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:32.640
<v Speaker 2>And like God, I would be so mad if I

0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:35.320
<v Speaker 2>was Alan Moore where I wrote this like anarchist superhero

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 2>and then the only people who do anything with it

0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:38.760
<v Speaker 2>are absolutely shit.

0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:42.239
<v Speaker 1>It fuckings like it's it is like you're it is

0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:44.320
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful thing. The art is out of your control.

0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:46.960
<v Speaker 1>But then it's like, ask Alan Moore about that and

0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:51.239
<v Speaker 1>see how he fucking feels. Because there's some real there's

0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:52.840
<v Speaker 1>some real outliers.

0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:59.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So the Gunpowder plot where Guy FOWX tried to

0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 2>blow Parliament or whatever. He was trying to kill King

0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 2>James of too many numbers, and he was trying to

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.919
<v Speaker 2>kill him for his repression of the Catholics, which means

0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:10.320
<v Speaker 2>we can sort of tangentially claim that guy Fox is

0:47:10.320 --> 0:47:12.360
<v Speaker 2>on the side of the witches. But this is me

0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:16.280
<v Speaker 2>making a stretch. But I want to make that stretch

0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:18.320
<v Speaker 2>because it feels good and just you know, stretching it

0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:18.960
<v Speaker 2>feel it?

0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Does you know?

0:47:19.480 --> 0:47:23.000
<v Speaker 2>It feels good to stretch. Yeah. But also his Fifth

0:47:23.040 --> 0:47:29.799
<v Speaker 2>of November ties directly into Halloween. Really, it was for

0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:34.400
<v Speaker 2>decades after the seventeenth century, decades it was celebrated on

0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.359
<v Speaker 2>the same day as Halloween, the fifth of November thing

0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the like fuck the Pope, we hate all the Catholics day,

0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:46.040
<v Speaker 2>uh huh. And then eventually the Protestants were like in

0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:48.040
<v Speaker 2>sixteen forty seven, they were like, look, we're fine with

0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:50.680
<v Speaker 2>the anti Catholic bonfires, but note of the fact Halloween

0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:52.879
<v Speaker 2>fun having, and the general like like, could you keep

0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:55.120
<v Speaker 2>it a little more focused on just hating Catholics. We

0:47:55.160 --> 0:47:59.920
<v Speaker 2>don't like fun. But the riotous elements of we hate

0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Atholics Day filtered down into the mischief of Halloween, which

0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:05.440
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about it a little bit interesting.

0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:09.879
<v Speaker 2>As we get closed, as we close out the medieval era,

0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:13.000
<v Speaker 2>we start seeing Halloween like we know it now. There's strange,

0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:16.879
<v Speaker 2>syncretic rituals. There's mischief, there's cross dressing and costuming, there's

0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:19.880
<v Speaker 2>door to door acquisition of snacks, there's jack o lanterns,

0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:23.200
<v Speaker 2>all that good stuff. These are all hundreds of years old.

0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.359
<v Speaker 2>We especially see them in Ireland, in Scotland, and when

0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 2>the immigrants from these countries start showing up in larger

0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:30.719
<v Speaker 2>numbers in the US, we see it here too. So

0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:36.880
<v Speaker 2>thanks potato famine for giving us Halloween drunken public revelry.

0:48:36.920 --> 0:48:41.799
<v Speaker 2>In the sixteenth century, people started demanding contributions from passerbys

0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and neighbors to carry on their hedonism, like they were

0:48:43.960 --> 0:48:46.480
<v Speaker 2>all like run around and these are actually a lot

0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:50.240
<v Speaker 2>of these are the like we hate Catholic Day stuff.

0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:54.400
<v Speaker 2>In the seventeenth century, you start getting public choir performances

0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:56.440
<v Speaker 2>where people men and women alike as best as I

0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:58.880
<v Speaker 2>can tell, would dress up as maidens with like the

0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:02.040
<v Speaker 2>hoods and stuff, you know, like old timy medieval women's clothes,

0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:04.360
<v Speaker 2>and then sing songs about wanting to get fucked.

0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is.

0:49:08.280 --> 0:49:10.800
<v Speaker 2>One of the potential origins of the costuming of Halloween.

0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:14.480
<v Speaker 2>There's other ones too, specifically people dressing up to emulate

0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:16.080
<v Speaker 2>the spirits and things like that.

0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Cool.

0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:21.319
<v Speaker 2>The Mischief Night in England was on November fifth, and

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.280
<v Speaker 2>people went from burning effigies the Pope to burning effigies

0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.279
<v Speaker 2>of any politician they didn't like. People went around door

0:49:27.320 --> 0:49:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to door demanding contributions of firewood and money from the

0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:35.320
<v Speaker 2>rich for their celebrations. Cool, and I promised you purge reference,

0:49:36.040 --> 0:49:38.960
<v Speaker 2>it was seen as justifiable to steal firewood from anyone

0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:42.640
<v Speaker 2>who denied it, and it became a night of permission,

0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:45.920
<v Speaker 2>not a It was more of a go poach rabbits

0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:48.120
<v Speaker 2>on rich people's land, and not to kill your neighbor's thing.

0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

0:49:49.680 --> 0:49:52.040
<v Speaker 2>But anyone who is unpopular in your neighborhood, especially if

0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:54.640
<v Speaker 2>you're rich and unpopular, we see your windows broken and

0:49:54.680 --> 0:49:55.680
<v Speaker 2>your garden's uprooted.

0:49:56.320 --> 0:50:01.280
<v Speaker 1>That is really I really like reframing the purge as

0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:04.719
<v Speaker 1>a night of permission. Yeah, it's just like kind of

0:50:04.719 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 1>a softer, more fun way of putting it, Yeah.

0:50:07.520 --> 0:50:12.399
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, Mischief. Mischief Night comes over later to the US

0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:15.640
<v Speaker 2>as October thirtieth, Halloween en as I guess you could

0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:20.040
<v Speaker 2>call it. But before that, mummery starts showing up at

0:50:20.040 --> 0:50:22.000
<v Speaker 2>this point in the British Isles, which is the practice

0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:24.920
<v Speaker 2>of costuming and wild costumes and performing door to door

0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and demanding food, booze, and money, which is probably the

0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:31.400
<v Speaker 2>most logical origin of trick or treating, although there's the

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:33.560
<v Speaker 2>stuff that comes before it, like dressing up as.

0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Let's bring it back the other two though, Like yeah, also,

0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:41.280
<v Speaker 1>while I've got you here with my kid dressed as Scoopy,

0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:45.800
<v Speaker 1>give me like beer and twenty dollars.

0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

0:50:47.719 --> 0:50:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And.

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I thought you were gonna say, like I thought you're

0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:56.280
<v Speaker 2>saying about the wanting to get fucked part.

0:50:57.000 --> 0:51:02.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh and for a grand finale yeah fuck me raw

0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:05.680
<v Speaker 1>yeah yeah yeah, that's just neighborly.

0:51:06.120 --> 0:51:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, it's a night of permission.

0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah.

0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:15.080
<v Speaker 2>And so the more ritual side of this mummery and

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the and all of this is dressing up as the

0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:21.120
<v Speaker 2>spirits and offering good fortune for those who donate to

0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:24.040
<v Speaker 2>your cause. So the pious would bake soul cakes, which

0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:26.759
<v Speaker 2>are sweet biscuits to commemorate the dead, and then give

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:29.600
<v Speaker 2>them out to the soulers who would pray for their souls. Basically,

0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:31.560
<v Speaker 2>it's like you go around, you'd be like, hey, give

0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:34.560
<v Speaker 2>me a soul cake, and I will pray for the

0:51:34.600 --> 0:51:37.120
<v Speaker 2>people that you baked, that you've thought about as you

0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:37.960
<v Speaker 2>baked these cakes.

0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that feels like a very Christian concept, like prayer,

0:51:40.920 --> 0:51:42.399
<v Speaker 1>like prayer candles, stuff like that.

0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Totally, but it's also just like sweet, you know, yeah,

0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:49.200
<v Speaker 2>it's nice cake. It's also possible this is a backwards

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.279
<v Speaker 2>adaptation from the Wassale cake, which is like a Christmas thing.

0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, yeah, But.

0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Then there's like other things that are like no, this

0:51:55.600 --> 0:51:57.600
<v Speaker 2>is older, like nah, this is older, and like whatever.

0:51:58.000 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Who gives a shit?

0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:02.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's as it's fuzzy because there's too much

0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:04.239
<v Speaker 2>written about it instead of fuzzy because there's not enough

0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:07.320
<v Speaker 2>written about it. Then you get the Jack o Lantern,

0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:11.320
<v Speaker 2>the most common origin story that you hear, the version

0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I heard on all the podcasts I listened to, which

0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:16.279
<v Speaker 2>is a good origin too. And it's not a wrong. Well,

0:52:16.320 --> 0:52:18.080
<v Speaker 2>they're all wrong, it's all myths. Who gives a shit?

0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:20.440
<v Speaker 2>One of the origin stories is a guy named Stingy

0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Jack who is clearly irish and he tries to trick

0:52:26.080 --> 0:52:28.400
<v Speaker 2>the devil. He does. He tricks the devil a couple times,

0:52:28.400 --> 0:52:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and as a result, he's like left to wander the

0:52:30.200 --> 0:52:32.239
<v Speaker 2>world and he's denied heaven and hell alike, and he

0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:35.320
<v Speaker 2>lights his way with his lantern. These are carved first

0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:37.680
<v Speaker 2>from turn ups and then they get carved from pumpkins

0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:40.960
<v Speaker 2>in the US. And this is a decent story, and

0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:43.000
<v Speaker 2>there's like other versions of it where like, actually he's

0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:44.520
<v Speaker 2>just like kind of shitty his whole life, and then

0:52:44.560 --> 0:52:47.480
<v Speaker 2>he shows up to heaven and Heaven's like the fuck

0:52:47.520 --> 0:52:52.840
<v Speaker 2>out of here. You don't belong here. And this story

0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and the way we talk about jack of lanterns is

0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:59.120
<v Speaker 2>this physical object goes back to about the eighteen thirties,

0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:01.320
<v Speaker 2>or we have evidence them to from the eighteen thirties,

0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:03.960
<v Speaker 2>where people have jack o' lantern contests at like the bar,

0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:08.839
<v Speaker 2>and it's sometimes called the Jack McLantern. It was also

0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:13.840
<v Speaker 2>called Hobbane's lantern from hobb and his Lantern. Really yeah,

0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I like that one. That's great. The older concept than

0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:23.200
<v Speaker 2>this that possibly also gives its name is it's related

0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:25.239
<v Speaker 2>to the will, the will of the wisp. Have you

0:53:25.320 --> 0:53:26.240
<v Speaker 2>heard of the will of the Wisp.

0:53:26.800 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I can't remember in what context I would

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:29.440
<v Speaker 1>have heard it.

0:53:29.840 --> 0:53:31.920
<v Speaker 2>So the will of the Wisp is the like folklore

0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:34.560
<v Speaker 2>of when you're walking by or in a bog you

0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:36.879
<v Speaker 2>see fairy lights and you follow them and they lead

0:53:36.920 --> 0:53:41.360
<v Speaker 2>you to your death. And all over the world people

0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:43.640
<v Speaker 2>have versions of this where you because people see weird

0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:50.200
<v Speaker 2>fucking shit at night, right, and so these are the

0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:52.560
<v Speaker 2>they mislay travelers. They draw them into the swamps and

0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:56.160
<v Speaker 2>they're always just out of reach. And will of the

0:53:56.200 --> 0:54:00.959
<v Speaker 2>Wisp comes from Will, the name of a guy, right, Will,

0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:04.880
<v Speaker 2>and then his and then his torch. A wisp is

0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:07.560
<v Speaker 2>a word for a shitty torch made out of like

0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:08.800
<v Speaker 2>bundled sticks and paper.

0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:12.319
<v Speaker 1>Not to go all will logic, but that feels like

0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:14.560
<v Speaker 1>so on the nose. That like when I finally saw

0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:17.080
<v Speaker 1>good Will Hunting and then I found out the character's

0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:22.239
<v Speaker 1>name was Will Hunting. What the fuck? It's just a

0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:28.959
<v Speaker 1>guy Will Monjack same ye that pissed me off.

0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Also, didn't they let you get away with that? In Massachusetts?

0:54:32.480 --> 0:54:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Will of the Wisp? Don't we do not? I mean no,

0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:39.600
<v Speaker 1>we actually do claim gooble. But the point is that's

0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:42.440
<v Speaker 1>it was just a guy named Will. That makes it

0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:44.680
<v Speaker 1>way less romantic but also much funnier.

0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:48.760
<v Speaker 2>I know, and so Also other words for the same

0:54:49.080 --> 0:54:53.200
<v Speaker 2>thing was Jack of the Lantern or hob and his lantern.

0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:57.000
<v Speaker 2>That's the Jack o lantern, and I still.

0:54:56.840 --> 0:55:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Like it Jack and Will, just like hob and Hobb. Okay,

0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:05.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know a Hobb, but like I, I one

0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:08.040
<v Speaker 1>could argue that names of two of my bosses are

0:55:08.120 --> 0:55:10.279
<v Speaker 1>jacking Will. So this is like shocking to hear?

0:55:11.000 --> 0:55:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, have they ever led you astray into a swamp?

0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:16.160
<v Speaker 2>My exact thought.

0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:21.400
<v Speaker 1>I can't say that on on Mike, Do we know

0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:26.040
<v Speaker 1>a hobb Besides no, I can only say Miranda Hobbs

0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:30.399
<v Speaker 1>from Seximicity, Miranda Hobbs or Hobbs and Shaw. Those are

0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Calvin and Calvin and Hobbs.

0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:38.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, huh, I guess guess guess somebody is gonna need

0:55:38.160 --> 0:55:40.320
<v Speaker 4>to hire a hobb Jamie.

0:55:41.960 --> 0:55:44.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a name that people should bring back, Hobbiny. I

0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:46.120
<v Speaker 2>like it. It's named Hobby anymore.

0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:49.640
<v Speaker 1>M hm where all my Hobbini's at?

0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:53.720
<v Speaker 2>We're full up on Clayton's. Yeah, for sure, it's fine.

0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:59.439
<v Speaker 1>The guy who murders cartoon lions and Tarizan. I don't

0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:01.560
<v Speaker 1>know why that just popped into my head, but it's true,

0:56:01.760 --> 0:56:02.600
<v Speaker 1>right anyways.

0:56:03.680 --> 0:56:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so, speaking of not really murder but mischief, Mischief

0:56:09.640 --> 0:56:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Night reached a fevered pitch during the Great Depression nineteen

0:56:14.000 --> 0:56:18.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty three was referred to as Black Halloween, and to

0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:22.880
<v Speaker 2>quote Ill will again quote youth gangs from this period

0:56:22.920 --> 0:56:26.640
<v Speaker 2>ripped down street signs, sawed down telephone poles, opened fire hydrants,

0:56:26.640 --> 0:56:29.800
<v Speaker 2>disabled street lights, barricaded streets with stolen gates and refuse,

0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:35.400
<v Speaker 2>dragged tree stumps onto railroad tracks, overturned cars, removed manhole covers,

0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:39.000
<v Speaker 2>tore up the boards of wooden sidewalks, smashed storefront windows,

0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:43.560
<v Speaker 2>held shopkeepers hostage, dropped fireworks into mailboxes, unhooked poles from

0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:47.480
<v Speaker 2>the tops of street cars, spread grease over trolley car tracks,

0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:51.680
<v Speaker 2>put empty barrels over church steeples, attacked the police, and

0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:53.600
<v Speaker 2>burned almost anything they could set a fire.

0:56:56.080 --> 0:57:01.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, honey, Okay, no, no, it's great.

0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:05.880
<v Speaker 2>By in nineteen forty five, after World War Two, it

0:57:05.920 --> 0:57:09.520
<v Speaker 2>starts cutting down. But in nineteen or that starts whatever.

0:57:09.520 --> 0:57:11.319
<v Speaker 2>We'll get to it. But in nineteen forty five, after

0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:15.240
<v Speaker 2>thirteen Halloween, rioters were arrested in Toronto, seven thousand boys

0:57:15.280 --> 0:57:18.200
<v Speaker 2>and girls tried to storm the police station to free

0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:18.800
<v Speaker 2>their friends.

0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Cool.

0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:22.280
<v Speaker 2>They were turned away with tear gas and water cannons.

0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:22.919
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, like.

0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:27.479
<v Speaker 1>Sure, not surprised to hear that, but very fucking cool.

0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and an overall my heart is with this particular thing.

0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:36.080
<v Speaker 2>But most Mischief Night mobs were misogynists, and many of

0:57:36.080 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 2>them were racist. And chaos for chaos's sake has some

0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:42.880
<v Speaker 2>interesting beauty but is not specifically endorsable. It's how I feel.

0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:46.360
<v Speaker 2>But whenever I hear about seven thousand boys and girls

0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:48.240
<v Speaker 2>trying to storm the police station to free their friends,

0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm on there.

0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:50.280
<v Speaker 1>So it just fills your heart. Yeah.

0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And it was this spirit of chaos that brought

0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:58.880
<v Speaker 2>in the Halloween reformers, who were like, Halloween needs to

0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:03.720
<v Speaker 2>become wholesome. Starting in about nineteen forty five, trying to

0:58:03.760 --> 0:58:07.640
<v Speaker 2>redirect all that energy trick or treating was a specific

0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:13.000
<v Speaker 2>development of how to redirect the youth into like basically consumerism.

0:58:14.400 --> 0:58:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And they like wrote about it at the time.

0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:20.360
<v Speaker 2>They were like, I don't have I didn't include the quotes,

0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:24.040
<v Speaker 2>but there's like in the Journal of Parenting or whatever.

0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:25.280
<v Speaker 2>They'd be like, we're doing.

0:58:25.120 --> 0:58:30.160
<v Speaker 1>This thing redirect to your children's political outrage, and yeah,

0:58:30.560 --> 0:58:37.360
<v Speaker 1>pensiont for anti establishment chaos into little treats. Why not both?

0:58:38.040 --> 0:58:39.200
<v Speaker 1>And why not both?

0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:45.080
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly exactly how I feel. And it was also

0:58:45.160 --> 0:58:47.800
<v Speaker 2>post World War Two that candy companies so there's no

0:58:47.800 --> 0:58:51.160
<v Speaker 2>more sugar rationing after World War Two ends, the nineteen

0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:53.720
<v Speaker 2>forty five candy companies are like, fuck, yeah, let's just

0:58:53.720 --> 0:58:56.240
<v Speaker 2>fuck those kids up. Let's just fuck their bodies with

0:58:56.280 --> 0:58:57.280
<v Speaker 2>fuck tons of sugar.

0:58:58.080 --> 0:59:02.439
<v Speaker 1>The timing is like, yeah, the timing is fucked. Yeah.

0:59:02.480 --> 0:59:04.920
<v Speaker 1>It feels like absolutely perfect timing to be like, oh,

0:59:05.000 --> 0:59:10.480
<v Speaker 1>let's actually do a hard, hard right to consumerism. Yeah yeah.

0:59:10.520 --> 0:59:12.040
<v Speaker 2>And so for like twenty years you get the like

0:59:12.120 --> 0:59:15.120
<v Speaker 2>sort of golden era of like Halloween as is pictured

0:59:15.160 --> 0:59:20.800
<v Speaker 2>in the classic Americana right right, But now the Halloween's

0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:23.480
<v Speaker 2>a little bit tamed and like as generations go by,

0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:25.440
<v Speaker 2>they no longer know why they say trick or treat

0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:27.840
<v Speaker 2>versus like just give me a treat, you know, right?

0:59:29.680 --> 0:59:34.400
<v Speaker 2>That was this tame Halloween was far too much. Starting

0:59:34.440 --> 0:59:37.840
<v Speaker 2>in the late sixties, you get the demonization of Halloween.

0:59:39.360 --> 0:59:42.080
<v Speaker 2>It's nineteen sixty seven, you get the first rumors of

0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:47.200
<v Speaker 2>razor blades in the apples. Yeah, and the wasp suburbanites

0:59:47.240 --> 0:59:51.240
<v Speaker 2>went to war against the Christian holiday that has very

0:59:51.280 --> 0:59:55.120
<v Speaker 2>minimal roots in paganism, no more than like Christmas, that

0:59:55.280 --> 0:59:58.080
<v Speaker 2>was developed specifically to keep kids acting right.

0:59:58.680 --> 1:00:03.800
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like they're fucking dumb asses, is it. It's

1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:06.439
<v Speaker 1>almost like they're just losers with a lot of time

1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:10.040
<v Speaker 1>on their hands, isn't it. Yeah, just like get you know,

1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:13.360
<v Speaker 1>get whip up a froth, getting pissed off about fucking

1:00:13.440 --> 1:00:18.320
<v Speaker 1>whatever God. That is really satisfying to hear. Honestly, Yeah, they.

1:00:18.480 --> 1:00:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Just I love that. They're just wrong. They're like, there's

1:00:21.280 --> 1:00:26.480
<v Speaker 2>pagan holiday, like you're like barely. It is absolutely all

1:00:26.480 --> 1:00:28.920
<v Speaker 2>of the recognizable elements that we are aware of were

1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:30.480
<v Speaker 2>developed since Christianity.

1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:34.400
<v Speaker 1>And like, imagine a story about Christianity that ends with

1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:38.800
<v Speaker 1>the call coming from inside the house. Why couldn't imagine

1:00:38.840 --> 1:00:39.800
<v Speaker 1>this being the case?

1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:40.080
<v Speaker 2>I know?

1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Wow, terrific. Well done everyone.

1:00:45.400 --> 1:00:51.000
<v Speaker 2>There's one more real brief flare up of Halloween's spirit

1:00:52.000 --> 1:00:54.480
<v Speaker 2>in ways that are both interesting and also largely bad.

1:00:55.440 --> 1:00:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Devil's Night, Okay, In nineteen eighty three, you get Devil's Night,

1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:03.400
<v Speaker 2>which started I think in Detroit. I wrote Chicago in

1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the script, but I think I was because I was

1:01:04.760 --> 1:01:06.680
<v Speaker 2>thinking that the crow takes place in Chicago. I don't

1:01:06.680 --> 1:01:08.000
<v Speaker 2>know where the crow takes place, but in my head

1:01:08.000 --> 1:01:12.160
<v Speaker 2>at Chicago. But anyway, Detroit Devil's Night. You have this

1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:15.000
<v Speaker 2>city that is like fucking abandoned by white flight, and

1:01:15.000 --> 1:01:17.680
<v Speaker 2>it's just like a fucking hard place to live, and

1:01:17.720 --> 1:01:19.840
<v Speaker 2>so people are like, what if we just burn shit

1:01:19.960 --> 1:01:25.439
<v Speaker 2>down on Halloween? Ween, So on October thirtieth, nineteen eighty four,

1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:28.240
<v Speaker 2>there are two hundred and ninety seven arsons in Detroit.

1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

1:01:30.160 --> 1:01:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Some of them are angry kids in a dying town.

1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Some of them are insurance fraud some of them are

1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:37.600
<v Speaker 2>land grabs. Like this is why it's like hard to

1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:39.840
<v Speaker 2>not just be like fuck, yeah, fuck it, burn it

1:01:39.880 --> 1:01:40.480
<v Speaker 2>all down, is it?

1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Like right?

1:01:41.240 --> 1:01:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes the people who want to burn things down are

1:01:43.080 --> 1:01:47.400
<v Speaker 2>like actually doing it for really evil reasons. Yeah, But

1:01:47.480 --> 1:01:50.560
<v Speaker 2>you could also say that bonfires are an essential part

1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:53.840
<v Speaker 2>of Halloween and that communities come together to stare into

1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the flames to keep evil at bay.

1:01:56.840 --> 1:02:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Many things can be true at once, Yeah, and we

1:02:01.280 --> 1:02:03.880
<v Speaker 1>have not the time to get into how the Satanic

1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:05.640
<v Speaker 1>panic layers on with this.

1:02:06.040 --> 1:02:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I thought about it and I.

1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Was like an other day, Yeah, so many potential tangents. Wow,

1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:19.880
<v Speaker 1>oh god, I just the Christian self phone is really unparalleled, unparalleled.

1:02:19.880 --> 1:02:21.960
<v Speaker 1>I feel like this is like maybe the third episode

1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:25.520
<v Speaker 1>I've heard that ends in a Christian cell phone. Well,

1:02:25.880 --> 1:02:28.200
<v Speaker 1>this is when I wasn't aware of and I uh,

1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I love it. I love I mean, I feel a

1:02:33.080 --> 1:02:35.080
<v Speaker 1>little more personally connected to Halloween in the way I

1:02:35.120 --> 1:02:38.160
<v Speaker 1>wasn't expecting to. And also my uncle wasn't totally wrong

1:02:38.200 --> 1:02:41.919
<v Speaker 1>because this does seem to be like a commercialized amalgamation

1:02:42.240 --> 1:02:45.080
<v Speaker 1>of five different things sort of kind of.

1:02:45.240 --> 1:02:49.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, And I mean, you know, what is any

1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:53.400
<v Speaker 2>attempt at like finding some path to understanding and divine

1:02:53.400 --> 1:02:56.480
<v Speaker 2>besides like figuring some shit out. Sorry, I got distracted

1:02:56.480 --> 1:03:00.360
<v Speaker 2>because Anderson was just displayed to us on thenranging.

1:03:02.480 --> 1:03:04.479
<v Speaker 4>And like, well she woke up and was like, oh shit,

1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:06.120
<v Speaker 4>eighty Jamie, what do you doing?

1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:11.919
<v Speaker 2>He but yeah, thanks for coming to my Halloween spooky times.

1:03:11.920 --> 1:03:13.560
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, no, I actually felt a similar like because

1:03:13.560 --> 1:03:15.919
<v Speaker 2>at first I was like I wanted the easy through line,

1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:18.160
<v Speaker 2>I wanted the like aha, and then instead I'm like

1:03:19.520 --> 1:03:23.160
<v Speaker 2>it's what we make of it. Like the labels don't

1:03:23.200 --> 1:03:28.160
<v Speaker 2>really matter, the like spirit of spooky Times is what matters,

1:03:28.800 --> 1:03:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and we can all embody that in whatever ways we want.

1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:33.800
<v Speaker 1>That puts me at peace.

1:03:33.840 --> 1:03:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Everything is permitted except certain things.

1:03:37.040 --> 1:03:39.760
<v Speaker 1>And so when I'm wearing my thirteen going on thirty

1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:44.000
<v Speaker 1>costume tonight, I can rest assured that I'm taking place.

1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:48.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm taking part in a bastardized version of something really beautiful.

1:03:49.160 --> 1:03:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, but it's it's bastards all the way down

1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:55.080
<v Speaker 2>in a in a nice way, you do.

1:03:55.600 --> 1:03:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh, thank you, Margaret. That was so cool.

1:03:59.040 --> 1:04:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think the plug here at the end.

1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I think. Just listen to Ghost Church. I

1:04:04.160 --> 1:04:06.600
<v Speaker 1>think that's the closest project I've done that feels very

1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:10.880
<v Speaker 1>much a cousin, not a not a larva cousin, but

1:04:10.960 --> 1:04:13.600
<v Speaker 1>also you know, a bit of a larva cousin to

1:04:13.680 --> 1:04:18.600
<v Speaker 1>the Limeria that was this, that was this series. Yeah. Uh,

1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:21.640
<v Speaker 1>listen to Ghost Church. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter

1:04:21.680 --> 1:04:25.280
<v Speaker 1>if you so choose, and buy my book about hot

1:04:25.280 --> 1:04:28.120
<v Speaker 1>dogs and have have a you know, I have a

1:04:28.120 --> 1:04:31.840
<v Speaker 1>good This comes out on All Saints Day. Yeah, have

1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:34.120
<v Speaker 1>dinner and talk to your dad, have a nice time,

1:04:34.560 --> 1:04:36.400
<v Speaker 1>easy mac and talk to your grandma.

1:04:37.200 --> 1:04:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm going to make I'm making a mac

1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and cheese to night. Now I've just suddenly decided I'm

1:04:42.600 --> 1:04:45.240
<v Speaker 2>always really hungry at the end of these recordings. That's

1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:48.400
<v Speaker 2>not what anyone needs to know. What instead people need

1:04:48.440 --> 1:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>to know is you can follow me on the internet

1:04:51.040 --> 1:04:54.919
<v Speaker 2>by going into whatever social thing and typing in my name,

1:04:56.480 --> 1:05:00.400
<v Speaker 2>and that is how you'll find me and get the

1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:03.840
<v Speaker 2>book about hot dogs. Message Jamie incessantly about hot dogs.

1:05:03.880 --> 1:05:05.840
<v Speaker 2>The cool thing about doing something like that is that

1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:08.600
<v Speaker 2>people really like when you only talk to them about

1:05:08.600 --> 1:05:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the one thing.

1:05:10.040 --> 1:05:12.960
<v Speaker 1>And surely you're the first to send it.

1:05:13.440 --> 1:05:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like making fun of people's names, Like whenever

1:05:16.320 --> 1:05:18.160
<v Speaker 2>you make jokes about people's names, you're always the first

1:05:18.200 --> 1:05:18.880
<v Speaker 2>person to say it.

1:05:19.520 --> 1:05:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh, did you know that my name lines up

1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:25.360
<v Speaker 1>with the colloquial j lo Because no one's ever fucking

1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:26.720
<v Speaker 1>told me that before.

1:05:27.320 --> 1:05:29.200
<v Speaker 2>You know what, I'm the one person who never would

1:05:29.200 --> 1:05:29.880
<v Speaker 2>have told you that.

1:05:29.960 --> 1:05:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Because I know. And that's why her bond is so powerful.

1:05:37.080 --> 1:05:39.880
<v Speaker 2>So for you guysing to plug at.

1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:42.640
<v Speaker 2>All right, see y'all next week.

1:05:43.080 --> 1:05:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Bye bye, cool people.

1:05:47.160 --> 1:05:50.160
<v Speaker 4>Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:05:50.240 --> 1:05:53.160
<v Speaker 4>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1:05:53.240 --> 1:05:56.919
<v Speaker 4>coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1:05:56.960 --> 1:05:59.800
<v Speaker 4>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:06:01.440 --> 1:06:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Of b.