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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Do Cool Stuff your podcast.

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Speaker 2: That's normally not about holidays, but sometimes it's about holidays.

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Speaker 2: When it's a holiday like today, which is the holiday

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Speaker 2: known as Spooky Season. That's pretty much the only thing

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Speaker 2: I ever honestly call it. I don't even call it Halloween.

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Speaker 2: I just call it spooky time.

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Speaker 1: It is, and boy is it. I know.

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Speaker 2: Our spooky guest today is Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm worrying. I changed into my spooky sweatshirt

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Speaker 1: for a candidate that I like. This is Boo. She's trimmed,

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Speaker 1: so one of my favorite spooky clothing items.

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Speaker 2: I love that. It's so good. We're so scary. It

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Speaker 2: just exist. It's enough to make people not sleep at night.

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Speaker 1: Kind of a just a brilliant merch line by if

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Speaker 1: you live in Sokol maybe a girl. Oh yeah, she's great,

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Speaker 1: she's the best. I just performed it her drag show

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Speaker 1: fundraiser and cops a ghost sweatshirt. Very fun.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. The other voice

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Speaker 2: that you're hearing is Sophie. You all know this.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Hi, I'm Sophie. It's me. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Our audio engineers.

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Speaker 1: Ian Hi, Ian Hi, Ian Hi, Sophie.

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Speaker 2: Now I feel like I have to, like now, I

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Speaker 2: feel like the podcast will fall apart if I don't

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Speaker 2: say Hi, Ian, Like It's like.

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Speaker 1: No, you're right, it will. We did that and Ian's

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Speaker 1: I mean that this sounds like a very early Stephen

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Speaker 1: King novel where Ian's life will somehow fall apart.

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Speaker 2: We better keep it up.

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Speaker 1: I in my life. So this is important that we

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Speaker 1: do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Our theme music is written for us by

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Speaker 2: un Woman, and this week we are talking about the

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Speaker 2: larger series of holidays that encompass Spooky Times. Spooky Times

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Speaker 2: is the large umbrella with you know all hallow Tide

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Speaker 2: and Halloween and La Muria. Everyone knows Lamia obviously, I

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Speaker 2: mean among us. Yeah, so today I promise you witch burning.

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Speaker 2: It's it's a weird thing to promise people, but there's

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Speaker 2: like they do some cool stuff before they get burned.

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Speaker 2: That's that's honestly. The usual format of the show is

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Speaker 2: bad things happening to good people.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to my homeland in this episode? Boston

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Speaker 1: just Massachusetts Salem adjacent, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Not so much. Now we're gonna it's gonna be mostly

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Speaker 2: Scottish Wish trials. Oh, okay, interesting, but well before we

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Speaker 2: get to that, a thousand years before the early Catholic Church,

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Speaker 2: They're like, we should have a day to celebrate all

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Speaker 2: of our martyrs since people keep getting like flate alive

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Speaker 2: and crucified in shipt for being Christian, because there was

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Speaker 2: a period of time, very long time ago when anti

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Speaker 2: Christian impression was real for a couple hundred years. Different

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Speaker 2: areas use different days of you know, different calend days

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Speaker 2: for this. Some people use May thirteenth, the day of Lemuria.

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Speaker 2: I read one source claim of the earliest name of

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Speaker 2: the saint's remembrance day was Lamuria, but I suspect that

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Speaker 2: I was not able to confirm that. Okay, in either

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Speaker 2: the year six hundred and nine or six hundred and ten,

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Speaker 2: Pope Boniface the Fourth whose name should be Boniface, but

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Speaker 2: it is not for some weird reason.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I was like, is there a fun reason or did.

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Speaker 2: You know just spell Boniface?

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Speaker 1: And who is such a bummer when they're like and

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Speaker 1: the name is less fun now? And who can say why?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? All right, so Boniface the Fourth formalized the day

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Speaker 2: to May thirteenth, and was like fuck yeah, fuckla Muria.

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Speaker 2: That's what it is exactly how he said, Shitmuria. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was a big shitstirr.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I.

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Speaker 2: And friend of the Pod. Syncretism is happening all over Europe, right, ye,

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Speaker 2: people are christianizing a name and then continuing to do

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Speaker 2: whatever they actually want to do. In both, everyone's died

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Speaker 2: laughing because of something that the leader the listener doesn't

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Speaker 2: get to know. I just died.

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Speaker 1: Feless the way you said. It's so good. Sorry listeners,

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Speaker 1: you will never never know either. There are some things

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Speaker 1: that you're not trace that we are protecting you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So in both Bavaria, which is now part of

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Speaker 2: Germany and the British Isles, people were like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I know that Boniface said we should do it on

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Speaker 2: the May thirteenth, but what about November first, since that's

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Speaker 2: kind of when we want to do it, and when

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Speaker 2: we do this kind of shit anyway, that's our like

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Speaker 2: dead day anyway.

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Speaker 1: Probably, So it's sort of like, let's just fold it

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Speaker 1: into the dead the existing dead day we have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. And so also people were like, and also

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Speaker 2: we should celebrate All Saints seat of just the Martyred

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Speaker 2: Saints in an all Saints matter way.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, Okay, this son is familiar,

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Speaker 1: but not in the same way.

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Speaker 2: Right, No, rights, Also the like Saint all Saints versus

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Speaker 2: like the Martyred Saints. You mean, yeah, I am under

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Speaker 2: the impression. So these names get really blurry or not blurry.

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Speaker 2: They change what they mean in ways that don't make

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Speaker 2: sense to me. Okay, because let's see, so well, we'll

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Speaker 2: get to it. By the year eight hundred, you've got

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Speaker 2: the Feast of All Saints spreading throughout the Christian world

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Speaker 2: because like All Saints Day wasn't necessarily these these names

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Speaker 2: didn't show up till later overall, so you get the

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Speaker 2: Feast of All Saints spreading around the Christian world around

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Speaker 2: the year eight hundred or so, except for the Eastern

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Speaker 2: Orthodox Church, which is like, we did. Our whole thing

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Speaker 2: is that we don't change our holidays for you motherfuckers.

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Speaker 2: So they kept theirs in the spring fifty days after

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Speaker 2: no on the Sunday after Pentecost, which is fifty days

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Speaker 2: after Easter, which I don't remember how to pick when. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: it's a spring thing for them.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Some people say that November first was picked because a Sowen.

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Speaker 2: Other people was like, no, the Germans did at first

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Speaker 2: and had nothing to do with sowen. See the aforementioned

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Speaker 2: people arguing about fucking everything constantly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: By the year eighteen thirty five, Pope Gregory the fourth

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Speaker 2: was like, sure, fine, what the fuck ever, Well, just

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Speaker 2: it's on November first. It's that's it, and you get

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Speaker 2: All Saints Day as we know it today, except no

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Speaker 2: one knows All Saints Day. People know Halloween. Then you

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Speaker 2: get All Souls Day the day after. Together it gets

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Speaker 2: the name All Hallows Tied or All hallow Tied, and

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Speaker 2: it's a holiday of remembering the dead, especially the people

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Speaker 2: who died in the last year. It's a day of

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Speaker 2: putting up memorial plaques, of lighting candles, of talking with

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Speaker 2: your dead friends. In Finland, which is largely Lutheran, graveyards

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Speaker 2: are a sea of light, as candles are placed on

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Speaker 2: graves in some places and where in Europe chrysanthemums are

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Speaker 2: placed on graves. In some places, people leave meals on

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Speaker 2: the graves of the dead. Some places, it's slightly different everywhere,

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Speaker 2: but it's like spooky and interesting. Honestly. Some places insist

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Speaker 2: that the celebrations on the day be all somber and

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Speaker 2: serious and quiet. But then Halloween October thirty first, have

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Speaker 2: you didn't I actually didn't even know the etymology of Halloween.

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Speaker 2: I feel like a poser. Have you heard the like

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Speaker 2: how it's Halloween? No, No, it's the Scot's abbreviation for

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Speaker 2: All Hallows Eve because evening was shortened to een.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's okay, wow, that is very Scottish as them

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Speaker 1: to do. So they just so the various punctuation just

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Speaker 1: like cycles itself out over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you see people when they're like trying to

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Speaker 2: be a little bit like spooky, or maybe they just

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Speaker 2: actually live somewhere where people still do this, there'll still

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Speaker 2: be an apostrophe between the two ease.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that also just sounds like, yeah, like someone in

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Speaker 1: my neighborhood who had really who's really trying to prove something?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, all Pedants Eve. And the reason it's all

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Speaker 2: Hollows Day is because All Saints Day and Sainted and

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Speaker 2: Hallowed are sort of synonymous, right, So all Hallows all

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Speaker 2: Saints sometimes called hallow Mass, which is a way more

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Speaker 2: metal word for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And then you get all Souls Day on November two,

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Speaker 2: the day after lots of places conflate all Saints Day

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Speaker 2: and all Souls Day and are like, whatever is just

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Speaker 2: the day for everyone who's dead?

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Speaker 1: And then I and maybe this is not the focus

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Speaker 1: of this episode, but like, how does the Day of

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Speaker 1: the Dead square with all of this too? Like was

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Speaker 1: that shifted from what? Was that always November first? Or

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Speaker 1: did that shift at any point in time?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm glad, Slush terrified you asked. I thought

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Speaker 2: about including this in the scripts, and I decided not to,

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Speaker 2: But now I'll just talk about it. There is a

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Speaker 2: hot debate about whether or not Day of the Dead

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Speaker 2: pre days Christianity, and there are pro Indigenous arguments on

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Speaker 2: both sides. Okay, are like no, this was a Christianization

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Speaker 2: of a thing, and other people being like, no, it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It's kind of the answer. It is

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Speaker 2: just mostly presented as that this is a specific indigenous

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Speaker 2: tradition or a pre Christian tradition that has always been

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Speaker 2: on this date. However, there are a lot of historians,

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Speaker 2: including indigenous historians in Mexico, who are making the argument

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Speaker 2: that that was like a specific propaganda thing in order

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Speaker 2: to do something and I don't know the answer.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, I truly was just curious where I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it felt naive to be like, wow, all cultures agree

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Speaker 1: that this is just kind of the vibe this time

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Speaker 1: of year, but I just didn't know.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of where I came into it thinking, right,

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Speaker 2: because it's like, it makes sense to me that as

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Speaker 2: you watch the leaves fall off the.

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Speaker 1: Trees and yeah, like death rebirth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I think probably a ton of cultures like

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Speaker 2: and there's actually a bunch of East Asian and maybe

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Speaker 2: Southeast Asian cultures where a lot of the specific traditions

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Speaker 2: are also way pre date Christianity, and so like, I

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Speaker 2: think there is a vibe of this pre dating Christianity

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Speaker 2: all over the world. But it's like like I just

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Speaker 2: straight up don't know enough. I spent a while trying

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Speaker 2: to research it.

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Speaker 1: That's fast. I mean, I don't know nearly enough about

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Speaker 1: Dadlis Martos. And there's I mean like because I live

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Speaker 1: close to the border, like there's a ton of celebration

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Speaker 1: and I just didn't know if it was connected.

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Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, and then the other thing is like once

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Speaker 2: again it's like shit that comes out of some criticism

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Speaker 2: is still fucking beautiful, and like what part of it

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Speaker 2: came from what? Like, it is still absolutely a cultural

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Speaker 2: thing that is beautiful in matters, you know, and absolutely so,

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Speaker 2: and so with all Hollis Tide, All Saints Day is

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Speaker 2: for celebrating not just the Saints, but everyone who's made

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Speaker 2: it into Heaven. Where's all souls Day is a day

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Speaker 2: for praying for everyone who's trapped in purgatory. And since

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Speaker 2: most Protestants don't believe in purgatory, they don't they leave

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Speaker 2: that one out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's so interesting that because I think because I

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Speaker 1: grew up such a like an amalgam of Christianity of

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Speaker 1: kind of like whatever was around, whatever was available, and

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Speaker 1: whatever it was not homophobic, that would be the place

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Speaker 1: we would go. And so I feel like the little

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Speaker 1: shades of gray and like Protestants don't believe in purgatory,

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Speaker 1: didn't know and technically grew up Protestant at various times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and different Protestant denominations do and don't believe

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Speaker 2: in purgatory, but overall that's like kind of one of

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Speaker 2: the like it's usually the ones that are a little

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Speaker 2: bit closer to Catholicism that still don't believe in purgatory,

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Speaker 2: and then man, I felt on so many rabbit holes. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: people don't need to know about Catholic universalism. So the

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Speaker 2: idea that some people argue about whether everyone goes into

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Speaker 2: have or whether some people stay in like, it's all

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Speaker 2: fucking people like to argue about weird shit, about stuff

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Speaker 2: that no one can see, and it's kind of interesting.

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Speaker 2: And so the reason that Halloween is celebrated is that

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Speaker 2: the early Church follow the Jewish tradition and the Celtic

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Speaker 2: tradition also in a bunch of other places tradition. And

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Speaker 2: the day starts the night before at sundown, so like,

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Speaker 2: which makes sense because at first you're like, why would

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Speaker 2: the day start? Then you're like, well, the last day's over,

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Speaker 2: isn't it right right, So like, so the new day starts,

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Speaker 2: and so you have all Hallow's Day starts with all

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Speaker 2: hollows eve the night before.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a cool holiday. The whole thing celebrating

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Speaker 2: your ancestors is fucking cool. Getting in touch with dead

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Speaker 2: is really useful for people, whether or not there's an afterlife.

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Speaker 1: I always was curious if you could be choosy about

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Speaker 1: which ancestors you do and do not want to welcome,

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Speaker 1: you know, probably because they're you know, not everyone has

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Speaker 1: the ancestors that they would be like, yeah, everyone come back.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now yeah, you probably like you put up like

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Speaker 2: a specific like John, stay out. You know, I killed

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Speaker 2: you for a reason. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The people, for example, your ancestors who you personally

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Speaker 1: have murdered, you're not going to want them back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I built a time machine. It was very expensive.

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Speaker 2: So you've got these three holidays by the ninth century.

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Speaker 2: By the ninth century, you've got the trade one which

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Speaker 2: I did not know the word, which is a name

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Speaker 2: for a three day holiday. Okay, except for hundreds of

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Speaker 2: years it was an octave, an eight day holiday, because

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Speaker 2: everyone has always known that spooky season should be given

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Speaker 2: some fucking breathing room. Sowyn was usually three days before

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Speaker 2: and three days after November one, so for a full

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Speaker 2: week of spook times. And so the medieval period goes onward,

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Speaker 2: and you know now that we've got the holiday, and

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Speaker 2: now the medieval period hits, and the medieval period sucked

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Speaker 2: for a lot of people. During death, people in Europe

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Speaker 2: got really interested in death for some weird reason amadically,

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Speaker 2: and now you get that done. I know, Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: one day I'll do an episode about the like the

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Speaker 2: Black Death in women's rights, about how like women got

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Speaker 2: like so much more power in the Middle Ages after

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Speaker 2: everyone died, because then like they were allowed to like

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Speaker 2: own more property and like run more stuff because the

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Speaker 2: people are.

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Speaker 1: It's like World War two lodgic. Yeah, yes, I can

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Speaker 1: we talk about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah sure, Well, I only know I would need to

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Speaker 2: do more research. I have that level of it right now.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool and also so depressing.

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Speaker 2: I know. And then there's also stuff where, like, at

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Speaker 2: least by late medieval period, I think in Western Europe,

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Speaker 2: women could own property if they were unmarried, and so

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Speaker 2: there's like all these women like trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: ways to stay unmarried. See our episode about murder their husbands.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So did it set off like a black widow

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Speaker 1: epidemic kind of?

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Speaker 2: Well, the black widow stuff that was a couple hundred

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Speaker 2: years later. The at least the episodes that we did

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Speaker 2: was on the like aquatafauna and the like the like

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Speaker 2: famous Italian poisoners and stuff like that, and how those

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Speaker 2: just this thing where like the same lady you go

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Speaker 2: to for your your astrology and your abortion will also

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Speaker 2: like give you poison to kill your husband if he sucks.

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Speaker 1: That's what happened in House of Gucci. Okay, I can

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Speaker 1: get see you're wondering.

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Speaker 2: I've never even heard of it. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: Scucci is.

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Speaker 1: That's all right, that meant something to someone, that's.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it matters. So because of Black Death, you get

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Speaker 2: the Don's macabre, the dance of death, the image of

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Speaker 2: happy dancing skeletons, and like people are just like really

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Speaker 2: kind of thinking about dying a lot for some weird reason.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that happened, so that ties into some

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Speaker 2: Halloween symbolism. That's why I'm tying throwing that part in.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that ties into Halloween way more than

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Speaker 2: I thought it would. It's the fucking witch hunts. You know,

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Speaker 2: people talk about like human progresses if it's linear, and

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Speaker 2: that's obviously not true.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 2: During most of the medieval period, the Catholic Church didn't

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Speaker 2: give a fuck about witches because witchcraft wasn't real, so

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Speaker 2: it was just pagan superstition. So why would you burn

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Speaker 2: people over superstition, which is very similar to the argument

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Speaker 2: that people nowadays make about the witch trials.

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Speaker 1: Also right, interesting, I'm like, okay, let them cook. I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately they cooked up some real shit. Just stirred that

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Speaker 1: shit in the cauldron.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, according to early medieval stuff, no one was

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Speaker 2: consorting with the devil. That's nonsense. He's not like a

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Speaker 2: guy who shows up and.

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Speaker 1: He's like, ah, not a sexy guy that you'd want

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Speaker 1: to hang out with. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no need to burn people at the

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Speaker 2: stake about it. The first not the first inquisition, the

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Speaker 2: an inquisition that I don't know enough to say is

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Speaker 2: the first. But the Catholic Church put together an inquisition

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Speaker 2: in southern France and twelve thirty three, and this was

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Speaker 2: to kill not witches but the weird heretical pescatarian communists, cultists,

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Speaker 2: the Cathars who may or may not be future friends

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Speaker 2: of the pot. But they're actually only like they're more

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Speaker 2: like interesting than like cool. Anyway, the inquisition sticks around,

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Speaker 2: they kill a witch here or there. You start getting

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Speaker 2: more and more like witch laws on stuff. But it's

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Speaker 2: not a it's like a thing that can happen, but

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Speaker 2: you don't have the specific witches hang out with the

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Speaker 2: devil thing until several hundred years later. Interesting, by the

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Speaker 2: end of the sixteenth century you get witch trials in

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Speaker 2: fucking earnest. Protestants and Catholics like to argue about who

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Speaker 2: was more evil during the witch hunts. Catholics pull ahead

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Speaker 2: overall more evil because the witch hunts in southwest Germany

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Speaker 2: were the most brutal anywhere in Europe.

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Speaker 1: Rare w for Protestants.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but as relates to Sowyn and Halloween and spooky season,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna look over at Scotland where Protestants were really

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Speaker 2: unhappy about the syncretic Catholics and all their pagany goodness.

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Speaker 2: And also they didn't like that people were like doing

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Speaker 2: divination and playing mash and performing health care.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, how dare they?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the witch hunts were a war on women,

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Speaker 2: they were a warren traditional healing, they were a war

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Speaker 2: on Syncriticism, and they were a consolidation of power by

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Speaker 2: various Christian sects. The pagan horn gods are like the

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Speaker 2: fucking devil. This is where you start to see diabolic witchery.

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Speaker 2: You see the devil fucking witches and which is really

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Speaker 2: interesting to me, is this like symbolism because one because

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Speaker 2: it's hot, Two because the nuns are married to Jesus

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Speaker 2: but never fuck. I mean they fuck each other, but

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Speaker 2: they never get to fuck their husband.

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Speaker 1: Right, they all get to fuck Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas witches aren't married to Satan, but they get

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Speaker 2: to fuck him and each other constantly.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, it seems like almost a better deal as

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Speaker 1: long as as long as the proper consent is being exchanged.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's just two strange sides of medieval saphism

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Speaker 2: as far as I can tell. Excellent. One day, well,

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Speaker 2: one day I'm gonna do an episode about the women

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Speaker 2: who led peasant revolves and stuff. But first I'm going

360
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 2: to tell you about six sick deals. You can go

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Speaker 2: to the store and.

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Speaker 1: Buy stuff once again, you got my ass?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like just like show up with like a symbol,

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Speaker 2: like a little like thing like a green piece of

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Speaker 2: paper that says five on it, and that's enough. Well

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Speaker 2: now it's not enough for shit. You can't even fucking.

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Speaker 1: I's going on a rant again about in this economy.

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Speaker 2: In this economy, you can't even just write five on

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Speaker 2: a piece of paper and trade it for food anymore.

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Speaker 2: But what you can do is listen to ads or

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Speaker 2: oh hey, cool Zone media directly by setting up for

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Speaker 2: cool is the Media, and then you don't have to

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Speaker 2: hear ads. And either way, it supports people making podcasts

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Speaker 2: that you all clearly don't hate because you're listening, unless

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Speaker 2: you're hate listening, in which case what are you doing

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Speaker 2: with your life?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm like, if you're hate listening, uh, I've passed

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Speaker 1: the point where I'm going to scold you for it.

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Speaker 1: I know, A streams a stream.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to just say things in order

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Speaker 2: to get people to know I'm not going to do that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Jokes on you, bitch.

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Speaker 2: You played yourself. Yeah, that's right, just like you're about

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Speaker 2: to play these ads. Yea, And we're back. So I'm

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Speaker 2: going to quote from an anonymous article called Devil's Night

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Speaker 2: that was republished by a public a press called ill Will,

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Speaker 2: and it was originally published in Mass magazine. It's anonymous,

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Speaker 2: so I have to give you all these things so

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Speaker 2: if anyone has a chance to possibly find it. It

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Speaker 2: talks about a book by Sylvia Federici called Calaban the

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Speaker 2: Witch quote, which is just the book that kind of

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Speaker 2: does the most of discussing the witch hunts as like

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Speaker 2: a war on women and ties it into primitive accumulation

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Speaker 2: and all this kind of interesting theory stuff. But here's

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Speaker 2: our quote. Federici traces the lineage of this coordinated mass

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Speaker 2: murder beyond just the Christian elitees fear of paganism into

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Speaker 2: a whole world of popular peasant revolts and the powerful,

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Speaker 2: undomesticated women who likely organized them. By highlighting that many

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Speaker 2: of these women lived alone, relied on public assistance, were

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Speaker 2: sexually promiscuous, and encouraged nonprocreative sex by means of contraception

401
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Speaker 2: and abortions. I know, early state builders were able to

402
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Speaker 2: target these embodied impediments to patriarchal governance, heteronormativity, population growth,

403
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Speaker 2: compulsory labor, domestication, and social order, in a word, civilization

404
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Speaker 2: by portraying them as enemies to life self and so

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Speaker 2: basically they kind of create the category of witch. Like

406
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 2: there wasn't a before the witch hunts. There was a

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Speaker 2: bunch of different people doing witchy things under a bunch

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Speaker 2: of names, and they were diverse people, living diverse lives,

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Speaker 2: but outside the new social norm that was being built

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Speaker 2: up as like the Christian state was being made, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so they get accused of murdering infants, and therefore

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Speaker 2: let's murder all of them and anyone who's ever looked

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Speaker 2: at them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is, I mean whatever, far from

415
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Speaker 1: the first person to make this observation, but the idea

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Speaker 1: that like, if you are not having sex in the

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Speaker 1: interest of creating infants, then surely you have a vested

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Speaker 1: interest in killing existing infants. Where you're just like, what

419
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: is this like perverted lodge, you know, like the idea

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Speaker 1: of like I don't know, just like not wanting an

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Speaker 1: infant yourself, not even in it, you know, indefinite sense,

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Speaker 1: but just today equals that you wish all babies dead.

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Speaker 1: Which I think that there is still a version of

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Speaker 1: that logic that exists now, but you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: like such baby little bean brain logic. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: these these these witches sound great.

427
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, they're they're they're.

428
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Speaker 1: They're sucking, fucking, and mining their own business. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: three amazing qualities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And one of the things that actually surprised

431
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Speaker 2: me to learn this anti witch hysteria wasn't as populist

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Speaker 2: as people think before there was the mass hysteria, and

433
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: like neighbor accusing neighbor, there were people who literally went

434
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 2: town to town and taught people how to be pieces

435
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: of shit about this.

436
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: They would like, I mean that feels familiar. Yeah, YouTube

437
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: was for for a while.

438
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And so they would teach people how to

439
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: recognize witches. And before that everyone's like, whatever, it's the

440
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: lady who like, you know, means that I can continue

441
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: to cheating my husband or whatever, you know.

442
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: An important part of society.

443
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is so, which means that the witch hunts

444
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: were in many ways top down, and we're going to

445
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: take it all the way up to the top. That's

446
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: not a we're gonna we're gonna tie it into a

447
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 2: king pretty soon, okay, but it is a a top

448
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: down method of the destruction of women and wildness and freedom.

449
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: Because something that's come up before on the show is

450
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: that in the medieval European mind, the idea of womanness

451
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: was wildness, irrationality, chaos and like non civilization. Excellent, Yeah,

452
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: I know, I'll take it.

453
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

454
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: And as for the witch's Sabbath, the midnight gathering of women,

455
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: these might have happened, right like the women would go

456
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 2: and fucking go do things in the woods. It's like

457
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: a thing people would probably do, right, They would do

458
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: this for a thousand different reason. One of them was

459
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: probably peasants plotting revolts against classic enemy of the pod,

460
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: the Enclosure of the Commons, which is happening. I promised

461
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: you I'd work in the enclosure of the Commons.

462
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: That's something that I never had really considered. But also

463
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 1: it makes total sense where it's like, why are they

464
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: always in the woods? It's a go. Perhaps they are

465
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: evading surveillance. Maybe that's maybe they don't feel safe outside.

466
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, is anything changing about society? And are there armed

467
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: revolts around it? Hmmm, must be unrelated to what women

468
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: are doing.

469
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: Why would you go to a place where you maybe

470
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: couldn't be as easily detected.

471
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating, Okay, okay. And then as a tangent, but

472
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: just while people have their Bengo cards out and we

473
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: just crossed off, Margret talks about the Enclosure of the Commons.

474
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: I can tie the industrial workers of the world into Halloween.

475
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: God damn it serious.

476
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: Because one of their logos, one of their old logos,

477
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: is a black cat called Sabo cat great, and it

478
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 2: is absolutely and intentionally a witch style old cat with

479
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: like hair raised and stuff, you know, and it is

480
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: the symbol for industrial sabotage done by the workers. Anyway,

481
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 2: witch hunts. Why do these witch hunts tie to Halloween?

482
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: Besides of course witches being cool, right, and Halloween being cool.

483
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: And black cats being cool.

484
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Unfortunately, the way that they get tight well

485
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 2: we'll hear about it. So this is the same medieval

486
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: period where the holiday that the Christians built starts turning

487
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: on them, right, they built this Halloween holiday, Halloween comes from.

488
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it has a lot of these

489
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: roots and these other things, but it is like a

490
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: pretty actually Christian holiday. But it also then becomes the

491
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: time of witches, sabbaths and black magic. And to quote

492
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: a writer named Louisia Morro, the choice of all hallows

493
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 2: all hollows as a major holiday for witches and devils

494
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: was no doubt coerced from the accused with a political

495
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: agenda in mind. Because there's this king and he's a bastard.

496
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: All kings are bastard, but this guy, there's another a

497
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: cap the other.

498
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a kind of like spelling cool with a K.

499
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: I know, although I usually hate when anyone replaces a

500
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: C with a K. It's usually a bad sign.

501
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but you know, in this case, if at

502
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: least applicable, exactly cool.

503
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, this king is extra bad, as I have learned

504
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: by guests telling me I should not say he is

505
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 2: a baddie, but it's instead.

506
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: Bad Margaret, Yeah, I wish I could have been the

507
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: one to tell you, yeah, baddie. The vernacular is shifted

508
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: in a way that I'm very in favor of.

509
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, no, totally yeah, I'm I know things

510
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 2: now I didn't many ways say that you yourself are

511
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 2: perhaps a baddie. Thank you.

512
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're welcome.

513
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: So there's a king named King James the sixth and

514
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: first he is I'm assuming both. Yeah, no, absolutely boo,

515
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: he is both because of some nonsensical rich people bullshit.

516
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: In fifteen eighty nine, he sails off to Denmark to

517
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 2: marry his queen to be Anne of Denmark, but a

518
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: furious storm rose up and he was driven to shore elsewhere.

519
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 2: He had had to divert his fleet, and he consulted

520
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: with a Danish demonologist, and the guy was like witches,

521
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: definitely witches. That's how you got the storm totally was

522
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: a bunch of witches.

523
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Check please, I know I suspect it's witches. That will

524
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: be one thousand medieval dollars.

525
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: Thank you. Of course, if your job is demonologist, what

526
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: answer do you think the guy's going to give.

527
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: You, really one of the best scams going to this day, demonologist,

528
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: easy money. Yeah, I suspect it as a demon yeah,

529
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: quoth whomever? Yeah? Great.

530
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: And if there's two things that King James the sixth

531
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: and first, I don't understand why you can't add them together,

532
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: be the seventh there are two things he hated. It

533
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: was witches and it was women.

534
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: Oh well, surely these things aren't connected.

535
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: No, and he's not one of the people who did. Actually,

536
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: a lot of the connection of the two actually start

537
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: tying into your uncle's job.

538
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: All right.

539
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: If there's a third thing he hates, it's Catholics, but

540
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: we'll tie that in later.

541
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

542
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: So there are two witches, sorry, two witch hunts in

543
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: two different countries related to this one storm. First, in Denmark,

544
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: thirteen women are arrested and burned at the stake, including

545
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: Anna Colding's mother of the devil, which is a sick

546
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: title to earn, you.

547
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I mean yeah, if nothing else.

548
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we know they were guilty because after they

549
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: can they confessed, after torture, and they confess that they

550
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: caused the storm by summoning demons to hide aboard the ship,

551
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: who then climbed up the masts and caused the storm.

552
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: Sure, and I mean they were only provoked successively to

553
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: near death to have to admit this.

554
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, women are saying, you know, they don't like

555
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: telling the truth, right, we are famously liars. Yeah, totally,

556
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: we all know this. Yeah, the room is absolutely completely bright.

557
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? So thirteen dead women is

558
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: not enough for King James, also known as the person

559
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: who oversaw the translation of the Bible that right wing

560
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: people love today. No way, Yeah, the King James Bible.

561
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: And then actually, what's funny is that.

562
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: With the chances there's been so many of those motherfuckers

563
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: and it's that one.

564
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the reasons that it's like people

565
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: like it, it's a really beautiful translation because he was

566
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: a Yeah, he was a gay man who really liked

567
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: things to be pretty and like put a lot of

568
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: care into stuff.

569
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: But anyway, we have to that's a best for another day. Yeah,

570
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: good lord, So.

571
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: He needs to kill some more women. What if Scottish

572
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: women were in on it too. Scott is soon going

573
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: to be one of the world leaders in the murder

574
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: of women. But at this point there weren't too many

575
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: witch trials there actually, partly because in this place the

576
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: Catholics were kind of on the like whatever, syncretism is fine,

577
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: who gives a shit?

578
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: You know, kind of a nascent industry. Yeah, yeah, but

579
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: I bet someone's going to be like, wait, there's potential

580
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: for growth and always the industry of dealing with it.

581
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. And actually a lot of the people get accused

582
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: of witchcraft are very high up in their towns, and

583
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 2: I'm certain that there's like direct political things behind all

584
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: of it. You know, sure makes sense. So they've arrested

585
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: a serving girl named Gellye Duncan, and I think this.

586
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: I think she was arrested prior to the I read

587
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of articles about this, but they're all very

588
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: like popit. I mean, I run a pop history podcast.

589
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: I can't really complain, but like, anyway, she's arrested and

590
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: her employer knows she's It's pretty sure she's a witch

591
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: because she one is really good at healing. How fucking

592
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: weird is that? And two sometimes she sneaks out at

593
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: night from the house that she's like forced to live

594
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: in as a serving girl. All very suspicious, but it

595
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: becomes even more obviously just a witch because they strip

596
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: her naked and shave her head to toe and lo

597
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: and behold, Yeah, there's gonna be some misogynst violence in here.

598
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: I'll try not to linger on it. Lo and behold,

599
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: she has a birthmark on her neck. The proof is

600
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: right there. And she denied everything at first, but fortunately

601
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: they got the truth out of her after a while somehow,

602
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: and she confessed and named names.

603
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: So surely no one shaving her had birthmarks themselves, that

604
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: would be that would be shocking.

605
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, one just has birthmarks. That's not why

606
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: they're called birthmarks, although they specifically call them devil's marks,

607
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: and specifically the devil would lick you in intimate places

608
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: and sometimes it would leave a mark.

609
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: That's something that I my mom would tell me, not

610
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: from the devil but God. The reason that we have

611
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: they'll ridge fil between the nose is that before you

612
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: leave Heaven to be born, God goes sh and puts

613
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: his finger and it just is shut tell me my secrets.

614
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh okay, and.

615
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: Then show and then shoves you down though whatever, oh

616
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: that you go through to be born. But yeah, it

617
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: was like the shush, the shut the fuck up mark,

618
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: oh that all humans have. And if you meet someone

619
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't have to shut the fuck up, Mark, they

620
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: know shit and they'll tell.

621
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: You okay, okay.

622
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

623
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: So after she reveals the secrets.

624
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: She didn't have to shut the fuck up Mark.

625
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 4: No.

626
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

627
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

628
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: Between sixty and two hundred witches, mostly but not exclusively

629
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: women are now put on trial. And it's a fun

630
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 2: historical note to tie into your uncle. About ten to

631
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: fifteen percent of the people killed for being witches and

632
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: medieval Europe were men, and the concept of dividing it

633
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: between witch and wizard or warlock is more modern coming

634
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 2: centuries later, once again showing that progress isn't linear because

635
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: I think men could be witches.

636
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: It's truly why not? And also just to like equalize

637
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: justifying killing them for no reason.

638
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. So there are these huge trials, the

639
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: Berwick witch Trials, and King James the sixth then first

640
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: shows up in person. He's only one guy because he's

641
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: fucking obsessed with witchcraft and he's trying to figure out

642
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: you know, oh they fucking cause the storm, right, you

643
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: know all these witches, and there's one witch who is

644
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: the evilest and baddest witch of them all, Agnes Samson.

645
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: She's a baddie. She is a baddie, yeah.

646
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: Because she's gonna do some She does some cool shit.

647
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: It has some negative consequences, but it's worth it, all right.

648
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 2: So she's torture for days before the trial. She's left

649
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 2: Shane to a wall by her face using what's called

650
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 2: a witch's bridle or a scolds bridle or a nag's bridle.

651
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: Have you heard of this?

652
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: For fox sake? I don't. Maybe I would visually recognize that.

653
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: I don't know.

654
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: It is a device that goes over the head and

655
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: like forces a bit into the victim's mouth to keep

656
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: it from talking. Sometimes the spikes on the inside of it.

657
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do know what you're talking about. Yeah.

658
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: I had to look this one up to check if

659
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: it was real, because I'm very like fool me once

660
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: about the Iron Maiden. Sure, because the Iron Maiden is

661
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: a nineteenth century invention where they were like look how

662
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: barbaric the medieval people were, and they like made up

663
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 2: a thing. Medieval people absolutely would have used the Iron Maiden.

664
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: They just didn't happen to think of it.

665
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: They did.

666
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: Like I cut out so much torture and execution methods

667
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: from the show every now and then I feel like

668
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: I have to include it to like give a picture

669
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 2: of it. I have read so many ways that medieval

670
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: people have killed each other, usually by way.

671
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: Why would they be like, no, this is where I

672
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: draw the line. Yeah, it's just it was a lie

673
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: of ingenuity. No one could live long enough to have

674
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: that idea.

675
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly because they kept getting thrown into, thrown off

676
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: of rooftops and sacks.

677
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

678
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: So there's absolutely the scolds bridle, and it is absolutely

679
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: a shut the fuck up woman, It's just a it's

680
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: just a tool misogyny. Also real and deployed during the

681
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: interrogations was the breast ripper, which is does what it

682
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: says it does, okay, and it is a way to

683
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: remove parts of people's bodies. Could you imagine inventing the

684
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: breast ripper and thinking you are on the side of

685
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 2: the angels.

686
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: I unfortunately can very clearly hear someone saying that and

687
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: believing it.

688
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's the problem with like religious systems

689
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: like this. So Agnes Sampson, after days chained to a

690
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: wall by her face, she confesses, and according to her

691
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 2: torture confessions, these witches, mostly women, hundreds of them, slipped

692
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 2: into the woods at night to dance with the devil

693
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: and kiss his butt cheeks. Since then, and since they

694
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 2: hated James just so so much and they just didn't

695
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: want to be happy, right, you know, they went to

696
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: the graveyard, disinterred corpses, cut them up, and then on

697
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 2: sowin they rode out into see into the sea in sieves,

698
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: which was like a classic witch thing is to Yeah,

699
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 2: then tied either living or dead cats depending on which

700
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: version you read, to the body parts, and then throw

701
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: them into the water. This summoned the storm that almost

702
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 2: killed James. Never mind the fact that other witches had

703
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 2: had already confessed and been executed for the exact same crime.

704
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: I just always find it interesting that, I mean, it's

705
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: evil and there's like such a long history of it,

706
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: but just like the logic behind being like and they

707
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: figured this out, You're like, what sort of scientific method

708
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: process don't think this went through. Like we tried like

709
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: strapping rabbits and to corpses, but that the results you know,

710
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: kind of diminishing returns there. So then we started slaughtering cats,

711
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: and then we started slaughtering like.

712
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: It's just I mean it is, it's obviously absurd, but

713
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 3: it's just it just feels like there's no like even

714
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: ADUs c much less further, it's what goofballs that were

715
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: needlessly slaughtering women, I know, what dufises.

716
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 2: What fools And the imagination of one side where they're

717
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: like and this is how we like summon the storm

718
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: is like way less harmful than the imagination of what

719
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: new ways can we come up with the torture and

720
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 2: murder people? You know, right? Yeah, So King James shows

721
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: up and he goes in person and supposedly he this

722
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: is like where he like he like starts off skeptical.

723
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: He's like, I don't know if I even believe in witches,

724
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: and I actually don't buy that part. But you know,

725
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: since he's like the evil Molder, he wants to believe.

726
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: And so Agnes Samson, she's like, you know what, fuck

727
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 2: this guy, you don't believe her witches come here. She

728
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: leans in. He leans in close to her, and she

729
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: whispers into his ear and she tells him the private

730
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: details of his own wedding night.

731
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: Oh, I like her.

732
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 2: This to James proves that she's a witch. Don't get

733
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 2: me wrong. I hope she was. But apparently royal wedding

734
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: nights were literally public events. There were court people in

735
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 2: attendance to make sure the wedding was consummated.

736
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: I believe. I mean that tracks. Yeah, so was she

737
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: just like kind of reading an article to him and

738
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, reading the public record back to him, right,

739
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: Like either some gossip got out or she did magic,

740
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: or she did the thing that every fortune teller in

741
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: history knows how to do, which is a cold read.

742
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, or you know, say what they're what you think

743
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: is likely?

744
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you know you like what you did technically,

745
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: fuck but you weren't very good at it.

746
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: He's like, you like me more, which is true in

747
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: this case.

748
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: How could that? How could she know? Yeah, we got

749
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: a killer?

750
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: She knows I'm gay, And I'm like sad because it's

751
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 2: like such a good owned to do, Like be like, fine,

752
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 2: fuck you I am a witch right before you die

753
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: to spoiler alert, she does not survive this. On the

754
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: other hand, he goes, well, we'll tell you what he does,

755
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 2: but first I want to tell you about Oh, what's

756
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 2: what's what sponsor should we have for this podcast? Cats

757
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: live ones that you don't if you do magic with them,

758
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: it's like they're willing participants. This brought to you by Familiars.

759
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 2: That is our sponsor this week is Familiars love that. Yeah,

760
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: and nothing familiar is only yeah. Now hopefully you don't

761
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: hear anything else. If it was, it was a mistake

762
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: and we're back. So about probably about sixty people were

763
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: executed at the end of this trial. I've read all

764
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: kinds of numbers and this is a very consequential event

765
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 2: in history. This opened the floodgates for witch trials in Scotland.

766
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: There are three thy one hundred accused witches in Scotland.

767
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: Over the next hundred years, thirteen hundred of them are executed.

768
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 2: It also turned James into an anti witchcraft zealot. He

769
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 2: wrote a whole fucking book called Demonologies that actually talks

770
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: about Lamurres, the ghosts from Pagan Rome and call Back

771
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: to Monday.

772
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: That's so funny that it's like I mean today with

773
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: like today algorith my logic would be, like you enjoyed

774
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: the King James Bible, would you want to read Demonologists

775
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: by King James relevant to your interest?

776
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 2: Well, but that's not that, because yeah, his big thing.

777
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: He wasn't like writing being like, obviously everyone knows about

778
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: witches and demons and so I'm just going to write

779
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: down it. He was trying to convince people that they

780
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: were real. Because this is even though the witch trials

781
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: are starting to kick in overall, people are like, what

782
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: are you fucking talking about? This is some superstitious nonsense.

783
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 2: The devil isn't hanging out in the woods with horns

784
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: making ladies kisses butt.

785
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: Oh but is he just like doubling down and down

786
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: and down until people sort of start to capitulate to it.

787
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's fucking king, which is a he.

788
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: It's true.

789
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: And so in this book he writes about women. It's

790
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: it's not very progressive.

791
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: Of quote, not a have to cancel k chain.

792
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, a problematic king.

793
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: That's a brutal quote.

794
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 2: What can be the cause that there are twenty women

795
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: given to that craft where there is one man? The

796
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: reason is easy, whereas that sex is frailer than man is,

797
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: So it is it easier to be entrapped in these

798
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: gross snares of the devil, as was overwell prove it

799
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: provided to be true by the serpents deceiving Eve at

800
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: the beginning, which makes him the more familiar with that

801
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: sex since that time.

802
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: Trauma queen. Yeah yeah, all right, well let him cook.

803
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's working up says some cool ideas.

804
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. The Trials also cemented Sowyn as the time for

805
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: which is to dance with the devil and kiss a

806
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: sweet button. My theory, he was probably walking up and

807
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: down out of Hell, working ouse glutes.

808
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: You know, sure, yeah, you get to. I mean, look,

809
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: witches aren't kissing that butt for nothing. There's some there's

810
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: some appeal to that butt. Yeah.

811
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: They were pretty much just millennials ahead of their time.

812
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: Real worship of the butt. Yeah yeah, yeah.

813
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: The sailing and a sieve was cemented forever by Shakespeare

814
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: soon after, when the witches of Macbeth say, but in

815
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: a sieve, i'll thither sail, and like a rat without

816
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 2: a tail, i'll sew, I'll do, I'll do, And then

817
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: they conjure up a storm. Now, King James also hated Catholics,

818
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: and this is tied into it because Scotland was like

819
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: kind of on a like what if we don't burn

820
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: all our healers alive and what.

821
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: If we didn't light every woman interested in ostensibly science

822
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: on fire?

823
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. And so James is like, he's Protestant.

824
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: That's a big hole, big complicated thing. It's a big

825
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: part of his identity. And Catholics have always been distrusted

826
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: by various rulers because of foreign allegiances, and England didn't

827
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: like having the Catholic Highlands in Scotland since France was,

828
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: you know, Catholic and France is the bad guy forever, right,

829
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: and then also their forgiveness for syncretics got the Catholics

830
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 2: branded as Pagans by the Anglicans. I'm fine with this. Also,

831
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 2: the Catholics deified Mary, and James is a misogynist, so

832
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: he's like, well, what the fuck? They basically worship a women,

833
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: you know, and you know, since the Catholics were into

834
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: having a goddess Mary and women were irrational, so I

835
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: better go kill thirteen hundred women in Scotland.

836
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we're just using logic that makes total sense.

837
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, for all your numerology heads, I'm not when

838
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 2: I hate this stuff. I'm just making a joke with this.

839
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 2: What ties into the conspiracy to kill King James the

840
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 2: sixth and the one?

841
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: Right, I'm like not against that, honestly.

842
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, V for Vendetta V five right eh, Okay,

843
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: if you remove the if you subtract the one from

844
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: the anyway, whatever the fuck. Okay. So the other conspiracy

845
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: that tried to kill fucking James was the V for Vendetta.

846
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: Guy the fifth of November, you said you'd never forget

847
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: Jamie Guy Fox.

848
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: I remembered him. I see his little mask a spirit

849
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: Halloween and Burbank I remember him, I know.

850
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: And like God, I would be so mad if I

851
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: was Alan Moore where I wrote this like anarchist superhero

852
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: and then the only people who do anything with it

853
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 2: are absolutely shit.

854
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: It fuckings like it's it is like you're it is

855
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. The art is out of your control.

856
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: But then it's like, ask Alan Moore about that and

857
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: see how he fucking feels. Because there's some real there's

858
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: some real outliers.

859
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the Gunpowder plot where Guy FOWX tried to

860
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: blow Parliament or whatever. He was trying to kill King

861
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: James of too many numbers, and he was trying to

862
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 2: kill him for his repression of the Catholics, which means

863
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 2: we can sort of tangentially claim that guy Fox is

864
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: on the side of the witches. But this is me

865
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: making a stretch. But I want to make that stretch

866
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: because it feels good and just you know, stretching it

867
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 2: feel it?

868
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: Does you know?

869
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: It feels good to stretch. Yeah. But also his Fifth

870
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 2: of November ties directly into Halloween. Really, it was for

871
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: decades after the seventeenth century, decades it was celebrated on

872
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: the same day as Halloween, the fifth of November thing

873
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: the like fuck the Pope, we hate all the Catholics day,

874
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: uh huh. And then eventually the Protestants were like in

875
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: sixteen forty seven, they were like, look, we're fine with

876
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: the anti Catholic bonfires, but note of the fact Halloween

877
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 2: fun having, and the general like like, could you keep

878
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: it a little more focused on just hating Catholics. We

879
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: don't like fun. But the riotous elements of we hate

880
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: Atholics Day filtered down into the mischief of Halloween, which

881
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it a little bit interesting.

882
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: Okay.

883
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: As we get closed, as we close out the medieval era,

884
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: we start seeing Halloween like we know it now. There's strange,

885
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 2: syncretic rituals. There's mischief, there's cross dressing and costuming, there's

886
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: door to door acquisition of snacks, there's jack o lanterns,

887
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 2: all that good stuff. These are all hundreds of years old.

888
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: We especially see them in Ireland, in Scotland, and when

889
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: the immigrants from these countries start showing up in larger

890
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: numbers in the US, we see it here too. So

891
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: thanks potato famine for giving us Halloween drunken public revelry.

892
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: In the sixteenth century, people started demanding contributions from passerbys

893
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 2: and neighbors to carry on their hedonism, like they were

894
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: all like run around and these are actually a lot

895
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 2: of these are the like we hate Catholic Day stuff.

896
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: In the seventeenth century, you start getting public choir performances

897
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: where people men and women alike as best as I

898
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: can tell, would dress up as maidens with like the

899
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: hoods and stuff, you know, like old timy medieval women's clothes,

900
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: and then sing songs about wanting to get fucked.

901
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: Okay, this is.

902
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: One of the potential origins of the costuming of Halloween.

903
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: There's other ones too, specifically people dressing up to emulate

904
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: the spirits and things like that.

905
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: Cool.

906
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: The Mischief Night in England was on November fifth, and

907
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 2: people went from burning effigies the Pope to burning effigies

908
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 2: of any politician they didn't like. People went around door

909
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: to door demanding contributions of firewood and money from the

910
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 2: rich for their celebrations. Cool, and I promised you purge reference,

911
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: it was seen as justifiable to steal firewood from anyone

912
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: who denied it, and it became a night of permission,

913
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: not a It was more of a go poach rabbits

914
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: on rich people's land, and not to kill your neighbor's thing.

915
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

916
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: But anyone who is unpopular in your neighborhood, especially if

917
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: you're rich and unpopular, we see your windows broken and

918
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: your garden's uprooted.

919
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: That is really I really like reframing the purge as

920
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: a night of permission. Yeah, it's just like kind of

921
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: a softer, more fun way of putting it, Yeah.

922
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 2: Exactly, Mischief. Mischief Night comes over later to the US

923
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: as October thirtieth, Halloween en as I guess you could

924
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: call it. But before that, mummery starts showing up at

925
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: this point in the British Isles, which is the practice

926
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: of costuming and wild costumes and performing door to door

927
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: and demanding food, booze, and money, which is probably the

928
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: most logical origin of trick or treating, although there's the

929
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: stuff that comes before it, like dressing up as.

930
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: Let's bring it back the other two though, Like yeah, also,

931
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: while I've got you here with my kid dressed as Scoopy,

932
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: give me like beer and twenty dollars.

933
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

934
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.

935
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say, like I thought you're

936
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 2: saying about the wanting to get fucked part.

937
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: Oh and for a grand finale yeah fuck me raw

938
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah, that's just neighborly.

939
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it's a night of permission.

940
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

941
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: And so the more ritual side of this mummery and

942
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: the and all of this is dressing up as the

943
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: spirits and offering good fortune for those who donate to

944
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: your cause. So the pious would bake soul cakes, which

945
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: are sweet biscuits to commemorate the dead, and then give

946
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: them out to the soulers who would pray for their souls. Basically,

947
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: it's like you go around, you'd be like, hey, give

948
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: me a soul cake, and I will pray for the

949
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: people that you baked, that you've thought about as you

950
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: baked these cakes.

951
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: Okay, that feels like a very Christian concept, like prayer,

952
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: like prayer candles, stuff like that.

953
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: Totally, but it's also just like sweet, you know, yeah,

954
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: it's nice cake. It's also possible this is a backwards

955
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: adaptation from the Wassale cake, which is like a Christmas thing.

956
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, But.

957
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: Then there's like other things that are like no, this

958
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: is older, like nah, this is older, and like whatever.

959
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: Who gives a shit?

960
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's as it's fuzzy because there's too much

961
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: written about it instead of fuzzy because there's not enough

962
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: written about it. Then you get the Jack o Lantern,

963
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 2: the most common origin story that you hear, the version

964
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: I heard on all the podcasts I listened to, which

965
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 2: is a good origin too. And it's not a wrong. Well,

966
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: they're all wrong, it's all myths. Who gives a shit?

967
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: One of the origin stories is a guy named Stingy

968
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: Jack who is clearly irish and he tries to trick

969
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 2: the devil. He does. He tricks the devil a couple times,

970
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 2: and as a result, he's like left to wander the

971
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: world and he's denied heaven and hell alike, and he

972
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 2: lights his way with his lantern. These are carved first

973
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: from turn ups and then they get carved from pumpkins

974
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 2: in the US. And this is a decent story, and

975
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 2: there's like other versions of it where like, actually he's

976
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: just like kind of shitty his whole life, and then

977
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: he shows up to heaven and Heaven's like the fuck

978
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 2: out of here. You don't belong here. And this story

979
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: and the way we talk about jack of lanterns is

980
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: this physical object goes back to about the eighteen thirties,

981
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 2: or we have evidence them to from the eighteen thirties,

982
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: where people have jack o' lantern contests at like the bar,

983
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 2: and it's sometimes called the Jack McLantern. It was also

984
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: called Hobbane's lantern from hobb and his Lantern. Really yeah,

985
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: I like that one. That's great. The older concept than

986
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: this that possibly also gives its name is it's related

987
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: to the will, the will of the wisp. Have you

988
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 2: heard of the will of the Wisp.

989
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I can't remember in what context I would

990
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: have heard it.

991
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: So the will of the Wisp is the like folklore

992
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: of when you're walking by or in a bog you

993
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 2: see fairy lights and you follow them and they lead

994
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 2: you to your death. And all over the world people

995
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 2: have versions of this where you because people see weird

996
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: fucking shit at night, right, and so these are the

997
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: they mislay travelers. They draw them into the swamps and

998
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: they're always just out of reach. And will of the

999
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,959
Speaker 2: Wisp comes from Will, the name of a guy, right, Will,

1000
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 2: and then his and then his torch. A wisp is

1001
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 2: a word for a shitty torch made out of like

1002
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 2: bundled sticks and paper.

1003
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: Not to go all will logic, but that feels like

1004
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: so on the nose. That like when I finally saw

1005
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: good Will Hunting and then I found out the character's

1006
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: name was Will Hunting. What the fuck? It's just a

1007
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:28,959
Speaker 1: guy Will Monjack same ye that pissed me off.

1008
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 2: Also, didn't they let you get away with that? In Massachusetts?

1009
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: Will of the Wisp? Don't we do not? I mean no,

1010
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: we actually do claim gooble. But the point is that's

1011
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: it was just a guy named Will. That makes it

1012
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: way less romantic but also much funnier.

1013
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 2: I know, and so Also other words for the same

1014
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: thing was Jack of the Lantern or hob and his lantern.

1015
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: That's the Jack o lantern, and I still.

1016
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 1: Like it Jack and Will, just like hob and Hobb. Okay,

1017
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: I don't know a Hobb, but like I, I one

1018
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: could argue that names of two of my bosses are

1019
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: jacking Will. So this is like shocking to hear?

1020
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: Well, have they ever led you astray into a swamp?

1021
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: My exact thought.

1022
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: I can't say that on on Mike, Do we know

1023
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: a hobb Besides no, I can only say Miranda Hobbs

1024
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,399
Speaker 1: from Seximicity, Miranda Hobbs or Hobbs and Shaw. Those are

1025
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: Calvin and Calvin and Hobbs.

1026
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, huh, I guess guess guess somebody is gonna need

1027
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 4: to hire a hobb Jamie.

1028
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: It's a name that people should bring back, Hobbiny. I

1029
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: like it. It's named Hobby anymore.

1030
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: M hm where all my Hobbini's at?

1031
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 2: We're full up on Clayton's. Yeah, for sure, it's fine.

1032
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 1: The guy who murders cartoon lions and Tarizan. I don't

1033
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: know why that just popped into my head, but it's true,

1034
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: right anyways.

1035
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so, speaking of not really murder but mischief, Mischief

1036
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 2: Night reached a fevered pitch during the Great Depression nineteen

1037
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 2: thirty three was referred to as Black Halloween, and to

1038
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: quote Ill will again quote youth gangs from this period

1039
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: ripped down street signs, sawed down telephone poles, opened fire hydrants,

1040
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 2: disabled street lights, barricaded streets with stolen gates and refuse,

1041
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: dragged tree stumps onto railroad tracks, overturned cars, removed manhole covers,

1042
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: tore up the boards of wooden sidewalks, smashed storefront windows,

1043
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: held shopkeepers hostage, dropped fireworks into mailboxes, unhooked poles from

1044
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 2: the tops of street cars, spread grease over trolley car tracks,

1045
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: put empty barrels over church steeples, attacked the police, and

1046
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: burned almost anything they could set a fire.

1047
00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: Okay, honey, Okay, no, no, it's great.

1048
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 2: By in nineteen forty five, after World War Two, it

1049
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: starts cutting down. But in nineteen or that starts whatever.

1050
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 2: We'll get to it. But in nineteen forty five, after

1051
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 2: thirteen Halloween, rioters were arrested in Toronto, seven thousand boys

1052
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: and girls tried to storm the police station to free

1053
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: their friends.

1054
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: Cool.

1055
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 2: They were turned away with tear gas and water cannons.

1056
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 2: But yeah, like.

1057
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,479
Speaker 1: Sure, not surprised to hear that, but very fucking cool.

1058
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and an overall my heart is with this particular thing.

1059
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: But most Mischief Night mobs were misogynists, and many of

1060
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: them were racist. And chaos for chaos's sake has some

1061
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: interesting beauty but is not specifically endorsable. It's how I feel.

1062
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 2: But whenever I hear about seven thousand boys and girls

1063
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 2: trying to storm the police station to free their friends,

1064
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: I'm on there.

1065
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: So it just fills your heart. Yeah.

1066
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was this spirit of chaos that brought

1067
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: in the Halloween reformers, who were like, Halloween needs to

1068
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 2: become wholesome. Starting in about nineteen forty five, trying to

1069
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 2: redirect all that energy trick or treating was a specific

1070
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 2: development of how to redirect the youth into like basically consumerism.

1071
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: Wow.

1072
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they like wrote about it at the time.

1073
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: They were like, I don't have I didn't include the quotes,

1074
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 2: but there's like in the Journal of Parenting or whatever.

1075
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: They'd be like, we're doing.

1076
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: This thing redirect to your children's political outrage, and yeah,

1077
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: pensiont for anti establishment chaos into little treats. Why not both?

1078
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: And why not both?

1079
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 2: That's exactly exactly how I feel. And it was also

1080
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: post World War Two that candy companies so there's no

1081
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: more sugar rationing after World War Two ends, the nineteen

1082
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 2: forty five candy companies are like, fuck, yeah, let's just

1083
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 2: fuck those kids up. Let's just fuck their bodies with

1084
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: fuck tons of sugar.

1085
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 1: The timing is like, yeah, the timing is fucked. Yeah.

1086
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: It feels like absolutely perfect timing to be like, oh,

1087
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: let's actually do a hard, hard right to consumerism. Yeah yeah.

1088
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: And so for like twenty years you get the like

1089
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 2: sort of golden era of like Halloween as is pictured

1090
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: in the classic Americana right right, But now the Halloween's

1091
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: a little bit tamed and like as generations go by,

1092
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 2: they no longer know why they say trick or treat

1093
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: versus like just give me a treat, you know, right?

1094
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 2: That was this tame Halloween was far too much. Starting

1095
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: in the late sixties, you get the demonization of Halloween.

1096
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: It's nineteen sixty seven, you get the first rumors of

1097
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 2: razor blades in the apples. Yeah, and the wasp suburbanites

1098
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 2: went to war against the Christian holiday that has very

1099
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: minimal roots in paganism, no more than like Christmas, that

1100
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 2: was developed specifically to keep kids acting right.

1101
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: It's almost like they're fucking dumb asses, is it. It's

1102
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 1: almost like they're just losers with a lot of time

1103
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: on their hands, isn't it. Yeah, just like get you know,

1104
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: get whip up a froth, getting pissed off about fucking

1105
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: whatever God. That is really satisfying to hear. Honestly, Yeah, they.

1106
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: Just I love that. They're just wrong. They're like, there's

1107
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: pagan holiday, like you're like barely. It is absolutely all

1108
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 2: of the recognizable elements that we are aware of were

1109
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 2: developed since Christianity.

1110
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: And like, imagine a story about Christianity that ends with

1111
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: the call coming from inside the house. Why couldn't imagine

1112
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: this being the case?

1113
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: I know?

1114
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, terrific. Well done everyone.

1115
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: There's one more real brief flare up of Halloween's spirit

1116
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 2: in ways that are both interesting and also largely bad.

1117
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 2: Devil's Night, Okay, In nineteen eighty three, you get Devil's Night,

1118
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: which started I think in Detroit. I wrote Chicago in

1119
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: the script, but I think I was because I was

1120
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: thinking that the crow takes place in Chicago. I don't

1121
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 2: know where the crow takes place, but in my head

1122
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: at Chicago. But anyway, Detroit Devil's Night. You have this

1123
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 2: city that is like fucking abandoned by white flight, and

1124
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 2: it's just like a fucking hard place to live, and

1125
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 2: so people are like, what if we just burn shit

1126
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 2: down on Halloween? Ween, So on October thirtieth, nineteen eighty four,

1127
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: there are two hundred and ninety seven arsons in Detroit.

1128
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: Okay.

1129
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 2: Some of them are angry kids in a dying town.

1130
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 2: Some of them are insurance fraud some of them are

1131
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 2: land grabs. Like this is why it's like hard to

1132
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: not just be like fuck, yeah, fuck it, burn it

1133
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 2: all down, is it?

1134
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: Like right?

1135
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes the people who want to burn things down are

1136
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 2: like actually doing it for really evil reasons. Yeah, But

1137
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 2: you could also say that bonfires are an essential part

1138
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 2: of Halloween and that communities come together to stare into

1139
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 2: the flames to keep evil at bay.

1140
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: Many things can be true at once, Yeah, and we

1141
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: have not the time to get into how the Satanic

1142
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: panic layers on with this.

1143
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 2: I thought about it and I.

1144
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: Was like an other day, Yeah, so many potential tangents. Wow,

1145
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: oh god, I just the Christian self phone is really unparalleled, unparalleled.

1146
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: I feel like this is like maybe the third episode

1147
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: I've heard that ends in a Christian cell phone. Well,

1148
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: this is when I wasn't aware of and I uh,

1149
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: I love it. I love I mean, I feel a

1150
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: little more personally connected to Halloween in the way I

1151
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting to. And also my uncle wasn't totally wrong

1152
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,919
Speaker 1: because this does seem to be like a commercialized amalgamation

1153
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: of five different things sort of kind of.

1154
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I mean, you know, what is any

1155
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 2: attempt at like finding some path to understanding and divine

1156
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 2: besides like figuring some shit out. Sorry, I got distracted

1157
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: because Anderson was just displayed to us on thenranging.

1158
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,479
Speaker 4: And like, well she woke up and was like, oh shit,

1159
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 4: eighty Jamie, what do you doing?

1160
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:11,919
Speaker 2: He but yeah, thanks for coming to my Halloween spooky times.

1161
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, no, I actually felt a similar like because

1162
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,919
Speaker 2: at first I was like I wanted the easy through line,

1163
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 2: I wanted the like aha, and then instead I'm like

1164
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 2: it's what we make of it. Like the labels don't

1165
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 2: really matter, the like spirit of spooky Times is what matters,

1166
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 2: and we can all embody that in whatever ways we want.

1167
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: That puts me at peace.

1168
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 2: Everything is permitted except certain things.

1169
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: And so when I'm wearing my thirteen going on thirty

1170
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: costume tonight, I can rest assured that I'm taking place.

1171
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm taking part in a bastardized version of something really beautiful.

1172
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but it's it's bastards all the way down

1173
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 2: in a in a nice way, you do.

1174
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, thank you, Margaret. That was so cool.

1175
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the plug here at the end.

1176
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think. Just listen to Ghost Church. I

1177
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: think that's the closest project I've done that feels very

1178
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: much a cousin, not a not a larva cousin, but

1179
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 1: also you know, a bit of a larva cousin to

1180
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: the Limeria that was this, that was this series. Yeah. Uh,

1181
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: listen to Ghost Church. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter

1182
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: if you so choose, and buy my book about hot

1183
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: dogs and have have a you know, I have a

1184
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: good This comes out on All Saints Day. Yeah, have

1185
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: dinner and talk to your dad, have a nice time,

1186
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: easy mac and talk to your grandma.

1187
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm going to make I'm making a mac

1188
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: and cheese to night. Now I've just suddenly decided I'm

1189
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 2: always really hungry at the end of these recordings. That's

1190
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: not what anyone needs to know. What instead people need

1191
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 2: to know is you can follow me on the internet

1192
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,919
Speaker 2: by going into whatever social thing and typing in my name,

1193
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 2: and that is how you'll find me and get the

1194
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: book about hot dogs. Message Jamie incessantly about hot dogs.

1195
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 2: The cool thing about doing something like that is that

1196
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: people really like when you only talk to them about

1197
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 2: the one thing.

1198
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: And surely you're the first to send it.

1199
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like making fun of people's names, Like whenever

1200
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 2: you make jokes about people's names, you're always the first

1201
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 2: person to say it.

1202
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, did you know that my name lines up

1203
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: with the colloquial j lo Because no one's ever fucking

1204
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: told me that before.

1205
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm the one person who never would

1206
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: have told you that.

1207
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: Because I know. And that's why her bond is so powerful.

1208
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 2: So for you guysing to plug at.

1209
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

1210
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 2: All right, see y'all next week.

1211
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: Bye bye, cool people.

1212
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 4: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1213
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1214
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,919
Speaker 4: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1215
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1216
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: Of b.