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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going. Instagram can be so much fun, especially

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Speaker 1: for me, because that's how I get to connect with

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Speaker 1: all of you. But part of the reason it's so

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Speaker 1: great is because of Eva Chen, who is director of

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Speaker 1: Fashion Partnerships. I just love Eva since way back in

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Speaker 1: the day at Lucky Magazine, and I was so happy

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Speaker 1: to have her on the pod to discuss her incredible

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Speaker 1: career path. Do you know that she started off as premit.

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Speaker 1: She talks about the importance of mentors, loving what you do,

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Speaker 1: why her thirties are way better than her twenties, what

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Speaker 1: she's learned as a parent, and most importantly, her children's

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Speaker 1: book series. Yes, she also happens to write children's books.

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Speaker 1: The latest Juno Valentine line and The Fantastic Fashion Adventure

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Speaker 1: is now out and it's great. Enjoy. Thank you for coming,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having I'm so excited. I was actually trying

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Speaker 1: when I was going through and doing my prep document,

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Speaker 1: I was like, when did we meet? When did we mean?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember? Because I feel like you've always been here,

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Speaker 1: which I think is such a good sign of adoring people.

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Speaker 1: I'm like that one thing in your closet where you're like,

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Speaker 1: how did I get this? How long have I hap?

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Speaker 1: I disagree. It's like I I it's like, I'm so

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Speaker 1: happy that you showed up that I feel like you've

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Speaker 1: always been a presence. We met probably over a maybe

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Speaker 1: a decade ago. I mean, yes, we should be like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, is this a diamond celebration? We should

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Speaker 1: be keeping each other diamonds? Are we going to my jewelry?

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Speaker 1: I think we should do that. And we met through

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Speaker 1: Era Cats Sarah that summit, which is like a tech

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Speaker 1: kind of like retreat, and I think that's how we met.

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Speaker 1: Like Erica from ps I made this Mt Carney, all

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Speaker 1: these great awesome women doing great, awesome things, And I

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Speaker 1: feel like we always just kept in touch through all

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Speaker 1: the different iterations of jobs, life, career, everything going on,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we've just known each other. And I have

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Speaker 1: so much respect for what you're doing and everything you do,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, oh my gosh, thank you and same. And

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Speaker 1: when you think about tech and iterations jobs, you you know,

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Speaker 1: being this powerhouse in the fashion industry and now running

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Speaker 1: all of these big partnerships in Instagram. It's such an

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Speaker 1: interesting kind of pivot as the world is modernizing, to

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Speaker 1: go from being an editor in chief to doing tech work.

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Speaker 1: What is life like for you right now? What is

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Speaker 1: being at Instagram like? Being at Instagram is great. It's

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Speaker 1: so much fun. I'm coming up on my four year

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Speaker 1: anniversary there, and you know, I feel like I look

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Speaker 1: at my career from a bird's eye perspective, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time people are like, how did you

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Speaker 1: know to make the jump from I was pre med

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Speaker 1: many months ago and I was great, And then I

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Speaker 1: was like pre Lawn. Then I was like pre existential crisis,

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Speaker 1: and then I worked in magazines for a decade, and

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Speaker 1: then I have been at Instagram for a while and

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Speaker 1: now I'm writing children's books. Like, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: in general, I've always approached my career just from like

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Speaker 1: a point of passion, where it's like, am I interested

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Speaker 1: in what I'm doing? Do I love it? Do I

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Speaker 1: feel excited by it? So being an Instagram is great

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Speaker 1: because I feel like I'm surrounded by really smart people.

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Speaker 1: It's really satisfying to go out there and see people

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Speaker 1: using the like Instagram, using the product and using Instagram

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Speaker 1: and doing cool things on it, whether it's advocacy for

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Speaker 1: you know, gender equality or um, you know, talking about

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Speaker 1: something that's important to them or sharing like important family

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Speaker 1: moments and so it's been fantastic. Uh, it's been crazy

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Speaker 1: to see how it's grown though, you know, from when

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Speaker 1: I started now it's they're like a billion people on

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Speaker 1: the platform. But for me, like when I think about

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Speaker 1: it on a personal level, like my book came about

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Speaker 1: because of Instagram, Like I met my illustrator on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: Like we did the whole half of the book over

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Speaker 1: like DM and text message and what'sapp And so it's

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Speaker 1: been really great to see how it can be a

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Speaker 1: tool that connects people as well, because I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: feel that way where there are people who are like,

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Speaker 1: like like you and I, like we don't like text

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Speaker 1: each other every day, but I feel like I know

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Speaker 1: what you're up to, and then we don't DM, so

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Speaker 1: we kind of feel like we're in tune with each

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Speaker 1: other's lives. And I think that's it's great when it

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Speaker 1: can connect people in that way. And I do think

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Speaker 1: that in an especially busy world and for women like

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Speaker 1: us who have such a busy careers. It does help

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Speaker 1: us stay connected to each other when ten years ago

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Speaker 1: we probably just wouldn't really get to talk all that often. Totally,

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Speaker 1: that's a really interesting gift of that kind of social connection. Totally.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure you hear where someone comes up to

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Speaker 1: you and they're like, oh, how is your You haven't

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Speaker 1: seen them in a while, but they'll be like, how's

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Speaker 1: your vacation? I was Greece, etcetera. Like they know what

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Speaker 1: you can actually is in grease, Like I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I have been wanting to go to Greece forever, literally forever,

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Speaker 1: and now everybody's there and I'm like, this feels like

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Speaker 1: a sign I have to go. And we have like

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Speaker 1: greasem I mostly just want like to zeki sauce and

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Speaker 1: peeda and like baba, I want the food and I

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Speaker 1: want the water and I want a nap. I want

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Speaker 1: to take all the naps. Yeah, you want a nap,

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Speaker 1: but you want to nap in one of those like

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Speaker 1: beautiful white villas with like that really blue water, maybe

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Speaker 1: with like a glass of like white wine next to

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Speaker 1: you right when I wake up. Just I feel like

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Speaker 1: I would have the best nap of my life in Grace.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we should go. Should we do a retreat?

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Speaker 1: Yeah in Greece? Great? Okay. Adding that to my director

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Speaker 1: of fashion partnerships for billion people, I feel like you,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to do that, but I know

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Speaker 1: that you know how to do that, and anytime you

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Speaker 1: plan something, I will sign up. Maybe we can work

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Speaker 1: on that and maybe we can open like era that

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Speaker 1: the o G Crew of Ladies. How about that? Do that?

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Speaker 1: I like that because I also feel like when we met,

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Speaker 1: like there might have been bunk beds involved, and like

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Speaker 1: we were all sharing our room or something and we

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Speaker 1: were all crashing and it was like you're tiny and

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Speaker 1: cramped and like, but I'm into it. Yeah, it was fun.

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Speaker 1: It's like my parents think it's weird that I still

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Speaker 1: have friends who live with me, and I'm like, you

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Speaker 1: don't understand. This is my choice. It's I clearly don't

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Speaker 1: need to have a roommate, but I like I like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm all about the bunk up. I think it's

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Speaker 1: good to have like a support system and a group.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I personally want to live with

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Speaker 1: like anyone, but you have roommates. Because you have a

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Speaker 1: husband of babies. Yeah, but even like including that company.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm like when people talk about you know, oh,

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Speaker 1: like solitary confinement, like imagine how like isolating that would be.

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Speaker 1: I just like it's hard when you have young kids.

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Speaker 1: At the age my kids are at now, it's like

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Speaker 1: all the cliches are true where you're your mom's complaining like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't even go to the bathroom by myself, Like

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Speaker 1: this is very true. Like I have an audience for everything,

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Speaker 1: no performance anxiety if I have to go pee, like

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Speaker 1: because it's like I'm used to my kids like standing

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Speaker 1: there like waiting for me to finish. Yeah. I kind

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Speaker 1: of got to that point, which you know all about

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Speaker 1: from working in fashion. I will change my clothes in

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Speaker 1: front of any girl. Yeah, I literally, I mean I

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Speaker 1: don't want to change my clothes in front of guys

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Speaker 1: because hello, that can be weird. But unless they don't

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Speaker 1: play for my team and then went like this outfit

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Speaker 1: and stay tell me everything. But yeah, like photo shoots

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Speaker 1: and working on sets and having to like change in

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Speaker 1: the back of transpovans like in between scenes. For sure.

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Speaker 1: I just I'm like it went away. Yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: thing is just gone for me totally. And then I think,

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Speaker 1: for me, what really, I used to be that person

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Speaker 1: in like the dressing room of the gym, not now

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Speaker 1: I don't go to the gym anymore. I don't have time.

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Speaker 1: But I used to be that person who would like

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Speaker 1: change by the towel or go into a changing room.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm literally like everything's off, like no problem.

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Speaker 1: And I think that when I was pregnant, you literally

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Speaker 1: get like your blood taken once a week, You get

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Speaker 1: like things checked that involved, like rubber gloves and stuff

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Speaker 1: like once a week, and you're bought. You start feeling

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Speaker 1: like just like a slab of like I don't eat bacon,

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Speaker 1: but I'm bacon. I don't know bacon some sort of

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Speaker 1: like delicious cured meat. And so basically I don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of like kind of weird feelings about that anymore.

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Speaker 1: And also I feel the same way about other women's bodies,

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Speaker 1: where it's like one of my coworkers is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, she's going through a medical procedure where she

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Speaker 1: might have to give herself injections, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll do that for you, and she's like, are you qualified?

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Speaker 1: I was, and I'm like, I was pre med actually

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago, so I said totally, and I watched

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Speaker 1: I watched a lot of episodes of Ar and Gray's anatomies,

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Speaker 1: so I am qual. That's sort of how I feel

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Speaker 1: about jury duty is I'm like, I worked on a

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Speaker 1: cop show. I literally worked for the wolf, who is

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Speaker 1: essentially he should run the Supreme Court, and like, hello,

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Speaker 1: I would be a great jury I will know who

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Speaker 1: did it. I will I'm in, But they won't let

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Speaker 1: you do it because that's that's too much prejudicial information

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Speaker 1: on there we go, look at you. But I still

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Speaker 1: get summoned for jury duty, which is super annoying because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you make me come in and wait all day,

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Speaker 1: and then you find out what I do for a

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Speaker 1: living and you kick me out, Like isn't there some

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Speaker 1: sort of form I could send in to be Like

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Speaker 1: you made the decision that I'm not allowed to do this,

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Speaker 1: even though I think I would be excellent at it,

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Speaker 1: So stop calling. But you say this now, and then

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Speaker 1: you will eventually get called, and it's going to be

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Speaker 1: like grand jury for like where you're gonna to be

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Speaker 1: have to be sequestered in a motel and you would

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Speaker 1: lose it. I would have a real hard time. I

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Speaker 1: check the news obsessively all day every day, as you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean you follow my Instagram. If I could not

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Speaker 1: look at the news for six months, like an O. J. Trout,

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Speaker 1: I would die. Think about all the pop culture you

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Speaker 1: would miss too, I don't even about I would care

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Speaker 1: about that, but like, no, it would make me sad.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to know things. But I if I could

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Speaker 1: not read the news, I would I feel like I

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Speaker 1: was spont and it's like a must. I just I

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Speaker 1: don't know how people would deal with that. I don't either,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, I do feel like for me,

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Speaker 1: there's just a lot of like heavy, stressful stuff in

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Speaker 1: the news, and it fills me simultaneously with like rage,

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Speaker 1: and then the by the best byproduct of rage is action,

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Speaker 1: I think. But then also sometimes especially when I'm with

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Speaker 1: like my daughter, it fills me like I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 1: this is why we have to be vocal, we have

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Speaker 1: to be loud, we have to gather like all the

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Speaker 1: women and men and allies around us. But it is

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Speaker 1: kind of like there's a lot of heavy stuff happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think for me, understanding how the system is working,

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Speaker 1: and what we can do to advocate to change it

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Speaker 1: is what makes me feel hopeful about the heaviness rather

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Speaker 1: than crushed by it. So yeah, I'm just in it

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Speaker 1: all the time. I sort of us. I used my

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Speaker 1: Instagram almost as a news channel, definitely, And then I

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Speaker 1: also am like, I need to give people some joy,

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Speaker 1: and like here's a here's a puppy. And occasionally I'm like, look,

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Speaker 1: I found flowers. Like I know that I need to

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Speaker 1: give people joy also, and I want to have joy.

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Speaker 1: I think you have to post, like what you want

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Speaker 1: to post. And that's like when people ask me, like,

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Speaker 1: what's the secret, I'm like, post what you want to post,

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Speaker 1: Like post what brings you happiness, be who you are,

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Speaker 1: or kind of that you find important. And that's the

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Speaker 1: best use case for sure. So pre social media and

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Speaker 1: you know, u vs and all these things. I want

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Speaker 1: to go way back because you are so savvy. You

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Speaker 1: have worked in so many spaces and studied so many things,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just curious about the beginning for you. I

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Speaker 1: wonder what Eva was like when she was like this tall.

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Speaker 1: You know, you grew up in New York City when

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Speaker 1: I was like three ft tall at me think, so,

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Speaker 1: so like, where did you live? What was the city like? Totally?

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Speaker 1: So I grew up right now, were what on fifteenth

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Speaker 1: Street or something in the city ish, I grew up

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Speaker 1: on tenth streets. So I grew up like a few

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Speaker 1: blocks away in Greenwich Village in the eighties. So it

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Speaker 1: was not like as like fancy pants as it is now.

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Speaker 1: And I was. I'm a first generation American. So my

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Speaker 1: parents came here from Taiwan um via China in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: And so when I my parents moved here to like

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Speaker 1: pursue the quote unquote American dream as it was then

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Speaker 1: and still should be, which it isn't. But that's a

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Speaker 1: whole different sidebar segue conversation. But basically they moved here,

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Speaker 1: you know, to give me and my brother, you know, opportunities.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really speak English until I think it was

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Speaker 1: about six years old. Your parents moved here, and then

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Speaker 1: you and your brother were born here, born here, yes,

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Speaker 1: but my parents were not born here. And as they

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Speaker 1: talked to you about what immigrating was like, they they

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Speaker 1: have on and off. I know it was incredibly hard.

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Speaker 1: My dad came first. My mom and dad got married,

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Speaker 1: my dad came first, and basically like he did the

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Speaker 1: classic kind of Chinese immigrant story. He worked at a

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Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant delivering food the restaurants I think still open

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Speaker 1: on the Upper East Side, and then he kind of

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Speaker 1: got into the import export business where he I have

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Speaker 1: to get the exact story because I am like, he's

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Speaker 1: told it to me. But you know, when you're a

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Speaker 1: teenager and you too tune your parents out, but when

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Speaker 1: you were a k I get now as an adult,

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Speaker 1: you're like, tell me everything. I don't know everything exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so he was like, you know, selling umbrellas on

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Speaker 1: Broadway that he got from China to other businesses. And

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Speaker 1: so it was tough because I do feel like I

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Speaker 1: lived in this kind of like bifurcated world where half

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Speaker 1: of me was growing up in an American society, American system.

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Speaker 1: This was the eighties where like Sidney Crawford and Claudia

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Speaker 1: Schiffer and all those like eighties and nineties supermodels where

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Speaker 1: the archetypes of beauty. And I was going to school

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Speaker 1: where of course everyone spoke English, and I was going

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Speaker 1: to public and private schools where oftentimes I was the

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Speaker 1: only Chinese or Asian kind of East Asian person there,

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Speaker 1: and so by day I would be surrounded by people

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Speaker 1: who didn't look like me, who valued different things from

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Speaker 1: me and thought different things were like cool than what

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Speaker 1: I was used to. And then when I went home

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Speaker 1: at night, it was like I only spoke Chinese at

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Speaker 1: home and with my parents, who are like incredibly hard

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Speaker 1: working and gave, um, you know, their families so many opportunities.

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Speaker 1: But so yeah, it was tricky because I always kind

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Speaker 1: of felt like I kind of jumped between multiple worlds.

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Speaker 1: And so when I was growing up, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I didn't belong to like one set crowd at school.

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Speaker 1: I definitely, I mean, I can say unequivocally I was

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Speaker 1: not part of the cool kids club. But I was

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Speaker 1: able to kind of hop between groups. I think because

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Speaker 1: like in my own life I was I always kind

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Speaker 1: of hop between a lot of different kind of groups

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Speaker 1: as well, like you know, my Chinese, and I was

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Speaker 1: never like quite Chinese enough to hang especially in college,

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Speaker 1: to hang out with like the Asian kids. But then

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Speaker 1: like I often was the only Asian in like a

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Speaker 1: different group, you know, so um kind of growing up

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Speaker 1: aware of like being the only one in the room.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't when when I was like quote unquote

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Speaker 1: like this big, like you know, about three ft tall

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Speaker 1: or like the size of my my daughter, Like definitely

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Speaker 1: was not confident. Wasn't unconfident, but just kind of was

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Speaker 1: like not like self aware. And I think kids these

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Speaker 1: days and teenagers these days, especially in young women, are

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Speaker 1: so much more self aware, like the average twenties something

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Speaker 1: I talked to like is more self aware is like

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Speaker 1: a twenty one year old than like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: someone double or triple there. There there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: self examination that happens, and I think that's great. And

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Speaker 1: I really used books as a solace and as kind

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Speaker 1: of like my world where I didn't quite fit in

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Speaker 1: into any of these worlds, but books like I could

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Speaker 1: plug into the world of the Lion, the Witch and

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Speaker 1: the Wardrobe and feel like I was one of those

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Speaker 1: siblings where I could read like roll Dolls books and

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, just lost in that world. And

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Speaker 1: these were worlds in the world of books that I

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Speaker 1: didn't have to worry about fitting in and I could

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Speaker 1: just kind of go with the flow. So yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's how I was as a kid. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like I didn't really come into my own. People always

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Speaker 1: talk about the teens being tough, which they definitely are,

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Speaker 1: and I really feel for the teens today, where you know,

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Speaker 1: everything is um. I worked at teen Vogue for many years,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like there's just a pressure to be

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Speaker 1: perfect at at a young age these days, and also

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Speaker 1: there's a pressure to have your ship together at the

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Speaker 1: age of like seventeen. And I look back to myself

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Speaker 1: at seventeen, and when I think about myself at seventeen,

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Speaker 1: I think I was closer to like a fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old when I was seventeen. I feel that way too,

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Speaker 1: such a late bloomer. I was a super light bloomer.

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Speaker 1: And then I talked to my friends who were in

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Speaker 1: their twenties and co workers in their twenties, and you know,

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Speaker 1: college students who I just happened to meet their early

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Speaker 1: twenties or people who just recently graduated, and gosh, like

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Speaker 1: the twenties are so tough, Like I would almost rather

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Speaker 1: go back to teens in twenties. I think the twenties

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Speaker 1: are really hard because you I think because when you're

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Speaker 1: in your twenties, you're expected to have a career or

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Speaker 1: some semblance of a career, you're expected to be some

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Speaker 1: like on the road to financial independence, which we all

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Speaker 1: know nowadays is harder than ever. And um, I think

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Speaker 1: you're expected to present yourself as an adult. But it's

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Speaker 1: it's hard because like these are things that for everyone,

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Speaker 1: they mature at a different rate. And also like you

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Speaker 1: need people to teach you these things and to talk

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Speaker 1: about these things. And so for me, I'm in my thirties.

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Speaker 1: I'm well into my thirties like late thirties, will put

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Speaker 1: it that way. And it's like, I think it's great.

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Speaker 1: The thirties are great. Like one of my coworkers just

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Speaker 1: turned thirty, and I was like, it's like the best,

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Speaker 1: Like you're gonna love it. Yeah. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: turned thirty, I literally was like, take the book of

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Speaker 1: my twenties and burn it, like set it on fire,

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Speaker 1: throw it in the throw it in the bin. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah, thirties.

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Speaker 1: Your thirties creates such freedom. And that's when I finally

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Speaker 1: started to feel like an adult. Yeah, I kind of

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Speaker 1: felt like a teenager and then a college kid until

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Speaker 1: I turned thirty. Totally totally. And it's like the analogy

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Speaker 1: I always give when people are like what is it

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Speaker 1: like when people ask like, well, what's the difference, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, like in your twenties, someone will invite you

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Speaker 1: to a party and you'll spend all week dreading this party.

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Speaker 1: You'll be like, God, I don't want to go to

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Speaker 1: this party, like so and so invited me, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like I have to go because she came to

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Speaker 1: like this thing I did, and I feel like she'll

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Speaker 1: be mad if I don't go, and then she'll text

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Speaker 1: me and I'll be passive aggressive and I'll be weird.

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Speaker 1: Right when you're in your thirties, especially your late thirties,

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Speaker 1: someone will text you and be like, hey, I'm doing this,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be like, sorry, I can't make it by

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Speaker 1: like I just feel pretty unapologetic, and I feel sometimes

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Speaker 1: bad about it, but I don't because I'm also like,

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Speaker 1: I know, like what I need to do to like

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Speaker 1: for me and to take care of myself. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like so much of my life is like taking

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Speaker 1: care of other people, whether it's my kids or work,

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Speaker 1: or like I'm on deadline for the books and this

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Speaker 1: and that, and I feel like now in my thirties,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, girl, I gotta sleep tonight I'm really sorry,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like I've been behind on sleep and

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Speaker 1: if I don't sleep, I will have a nervous breakdown.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really sorry I can't go to your birthday.

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Speaker 1: But here, like I'm sending you a bottle of champagne

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Speaker 1: and let's do a one on one dinner in a

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Speaker 1: few weeks when I'm out of this hole. And it's

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Speaker 1: so lovely to have that kind of open communication. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm much more transparent about like everything, um,

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Speaker 1: and I just feel like I just feel like it's

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Speaker 1: okay to kind of like say, like I need to

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Speaker 1: take care of myself because I don't want to burn

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Speaker 1: out and I want to like and now, especially with

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Speaker 1: these two young like god like having two kids under

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Speaker 1: the age of five, it's just like I'm really tired

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Speaker 1: and so like, I feel like I need to restore

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Speaker 1: myself somehow. So I am curious because I spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time here as a kid with my family,

399
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Speaker 1: but um, because you know, my mom's whole families from

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00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,479
Speaker 1: these go him from Jersey and New York, and I

401
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: remember coming into the city and just loving it and

402
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Speaker 1: being so amazed. And I wonder about kids who grow

403
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Speaker 1: up here, like they talk about how growing up in

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Speaker 1: New York you have so much freedom so early, were

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Speaker 1: you one of those twelve year old kids writing The Subway?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, No, I feel like I was super

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Speaker 1: sheltered as a kid, like super super sheltered. I remember

408
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Speaker 1: I was like sixteen years old and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go to Barnes and Noble to like read magazines because

410
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Speaker 1: they were all these like international magazines that you know,

411
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: international magazines at the time and still are like so expensive.

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Speaker 1: It's like twelve dollars for an international edition, and so

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Speaker 1: like my friends and I would be like, can we

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Speaker 1: go to Barnes and Noble? And I would ask my

415
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Speaker 1: mom and she'd be like, no, this is like Barnes

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Speaker 1: and Noble and you were sixteen. It wasn't even like

417
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Speaker 1: a front for going to a party. It was literally

418
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Speaker 1: like I wanted to go read magazines. So I was

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Speaker 1: like really really sheltered. And I think my definitely had

420
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Speaker 1: very very protective parents. I don't think I was allowed

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Speaker 1: to write The Subway about myself until I was like

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Speaker 1: sixteen either, so, but but I think that's an anomaly.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was a bad thing though. In retrospect,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was a bad thing. And then

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Speaker 1: in practice now as a mom myself, I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I'm so going to do that with my kids. My

427
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Speaker 1: daughter is going to be like, hey, can I have this,

428
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, no, I will be there with you.

429
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 1: And when she's like I'm going to college yet I'm

430
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: just staying Stanford, I don't want to put that expectation

431
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: on her. I'll be like, great, I'm moving down the street,

432
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: so let's live together, so fun, can't wait to go

433
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: to a party with you. Let's go, you know, like

434
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: I'll be like that Melissa McCarthy movie or whatever party

435
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: Amy Schumer Melissa McCarthy Life of the Party, whatever it was,

436
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: where it's like she goes with her kid. I won't

437
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: really do that because I will be at home like

438
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: drinking my cam emile t. But no, I was really sheltered.

439
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: And I remember working at teen Vogue and like this

440
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: is right around when Gossip Girl came out and being

441
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: like people were like, oh, you went to a private

442
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 1: like all girls school on the Upperreast side. Was that

443
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: what it's like? Was it like I don't remember what

444
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: they called the school, and gossip Girl. I think it

445
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: was called like the Constant School or something like that,

446
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,959
Speaker 1: and I remember being like no, like literally I went

447
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 1: to like the nerdiest, most academic all girls school. We

448
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: were like social Pariah's. But then when I was at

449
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: teen Vogue, we did a lot of like I did

450
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: a lot of reporting because I worked on features, and

451
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: I did a lot of features about mental health and

452
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: drinking and blah blah blah and all that stuff. And

453
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 1: I remember doing a story that was like called like

454
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: remember it was like the real life Gossip Girls, and

455
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: and I remember going to a teen party at the

456
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: Waldorf Astoria where they had rented out like half a

457
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: floor sweet and I remember being like these kids were

458
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: like fifteen years old, and I remember being like, oh

459
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: my god, this is like this is real. And so

460
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: we did it on two coasts. I did that story

461
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: in the West on the East coast, and it was

462
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: like the Waldorf Astoria, and it was like it was

463
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: very gossip girly like and they all had like Chanel bags.

464
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: And I remember one of the girls. I was like

465
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: kind of reportage like kind of following along and when

466
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: the girls like lost her Chanelle bag in the back

467
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: of a cab and then her her friend had to

468
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: like literally like carry her into her like you know,

469
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: penthouse apartment, and it was like a whole thing, and

470
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: I remember my mind was alone. It was like it

471
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: felt like a TV show. I literally was like, oh

472
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: my god, this is like a real thing. And then

473
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: on the West Coast there was a similar It was

474
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 1: like they all went out to sushi and they were

475
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,239
Speaker 1: doing saki bombs and teenagers teenagers. But I was like,

476
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, I I just it was so different

477
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: from my upbringing because I look back at pictures of

478
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: myself sometimes as a teen and I was like, man, like,

479
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: if you definition of awkward is like me, I had

480
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: this like huge perm that was like my head looked

481
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: like kind of like a fuzzy mushroom. My eyebrows were

482
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 1: like frieda callo. Had like nothing on my eyebrows at

483
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: braces for six years. I'm getting it invisil line on Friday.

484
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. And it's weird because when I was

485
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: a teen, I hated bracest, But now I'm so excited

486
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: to have like nice straight teeth. They're pretty straight. But

487
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: it's like I was just so awkward. I don't know. Wow,

488
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: that's kind of amazing. Yeah. I I was a late bloomer,

489
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: but like by my senior year, there was a whole

490
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: culture of house parties and I remember what a big

491
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: deal it was. But my mom demystified that whole thing

492
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: for me because my mom was like, listen, you're a teenager,

493
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: you're seventeen years old. You think you're super smart. You

494
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: think you're gonna pull one over on me, And she

495
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: was like, I know you're a good kid. You've never

496
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: broken your curfew, you've never snuck out. She's like, my

497
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: mom was in an is but was really when I

498
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: was in high school, a total insomniac, so like there's

499
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: no getting anything past her. And she just said, like, honey,

500
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: I partied as Studio fifty four, Like I have seen

501
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: ship you will never see. Part of me feel sorry

502
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: for you. Part of me is relieved. So if you

503
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: think you're going to like go to a party and

504
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: drink some beer and come home and I'm not going

505
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: to know, you're an idiot. And it was in that

506
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: moment where I was like okay, and then she said,

507
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: but if you do go to a party and you

508
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: do decide to drink beer, and you are going to

509
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: risk like being the person everyone's talking about on London.

510
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: If you can't remember what you did, at least don't

511
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: get in the car with your friends. If you call

512
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: me and you don't get in the car with your friends,

513
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: you won't be in trouble. I'll come pick you up.

514
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: So in a way, she told she told me it

515
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: was like a one two punch of you will never

516
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: sneak anything past me. And also, as long as you're responsible,

517
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: you won't be in trouble for being a teenager. So

518
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: I like, I don't know, eight to eight to nine

519
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: out of ten parties I ever went to, I was

520
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: the designated driver. I was like, you, guys, my mom

521
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: is not to be messed around with. Like that was

522
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: me in college. I was always the designated driver and

523
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: I would like make sure everyone was buckled in, and

524
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: then I would drive with like white knuckles because I

525
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: would be like, oh my god, take care of all

526
00:25:44,840 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: my friends. So you mentioned that you were pre and

527
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm curious because you know, my dad is an immigrant

528
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: and my mom is the first generation American, and my

529
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: family and my mom's whole family came you know, through

530
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: Ellis Island via Italy, the whole classic American dream story.

531
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: And I'm curious about if pre med was sort of

532
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: the like classic immigrant family thing, like you can be

533
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: a doctor, a lawyer, A doctor, a lawyer, or a lawyer.

534
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: It's like doctor, lawyer, banker, engineer. So that was always

535
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: kind of like those were the four careers that were

536
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: preferred for sure. For me, it wasn't one of those

537
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: things where my parents like we're forcing me, forcing me,

538
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: because I did always have an aptitude for science and

539
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: did pretty well and like biology and chemistry and all

540
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: of that. So I was kind of on autopilot, I

541
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: would say, where I just never questioned it. And I

542
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: do feel like in life they are like clues in

543
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: your life, like and it's whether or not not to

544
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: sound super new age, you kind of like tune in

545
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: to the clues that are coming at you from the universe.

546
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: And so for me, I was always like decent at science,

547
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: but like I loved my English classes with like I

548
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: had an English teacher named Mrs Sagor, Mrs Susan Sagor,

549
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: and she was like I would be like entranced by her.

550
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: We would talk about like Edith Wharton or Shakespeare and

551
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: just chocer anything, and I like, I would hang on

552
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: her every word because she could make these universes come alive. Um,

553
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: and you would go to Barnes and Noble, and I

554
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: would go to Barnes and Noble. I would read magazines.

555
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: I read every single Babysitters Club book. I just read everything.

556
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: But I never thought it was like a job or

557
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: a career. And I think that's one of the big

558
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: differences between like then and now. Is now like there's

559
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: almost too much information, like you could follow a prominent

560
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: book editor on Instagram or find their email address online

561
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: and start a correspondence with them. Was back then, it's

562
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: like the career paths you didn't really know about unless

563
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: you were lucky enough to have someone kind of tell

564
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: you about them. And so I was definitely on autopilot.

565
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: I went to Johns Hopkins University Baltimore, which is like

566
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: super pre med, pre law, pre engineering, pre finance, like

567
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: everything pre But it also had a really great creative

568
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: writing program. Um. It was called writing Seminars and UM

569
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: there was a kind of like a core curriculum. And

570
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: again I didn't really notice the clues where it's like

571
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: I would it was just like effortlessly kind of do

572
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: well in like the humanities classes, like the writing and

573
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: English classes. But then like Premed was like such a struggle.

574
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: This is before the expression the struggle was real was around,

575
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: but the struggle was very real for me, like I

576
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: would for like premad. I literally I remember organic Chemistry

577
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: was the breaking point for me, which is like the

578
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: class that kind of takes you from normal like yeah,

579
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: like science to like oh my god, like Premed is

580
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: gonna kill me, and like organic chemistry is about like

581
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: kind of chemistry but almost three D right um. And

582
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: basically I really struggled so hard. I remember, like organic

583
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: chemistry like studying, like I would have class for two

584
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: hours a day and would study and try to like

585
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: get these models down for like six to seven hours

586
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: a day, and I still only got like a B

587
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: or a B plus. And to me, it was like

588
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: in retrospect, I look at that and I'm like square

589
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: paground hole. Whereas I had a professor at Hopkins name Robert.

590
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: Robert read Far was his name, which is like just

591
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: a great name for an English professor, read Far so good,

592
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: um and so, and I loved him. I think he

593
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: was a pretty junior professor at the time, and I

594
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: took a course in James Baldwin from him um and

595
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: I loved it and he was just like so so cool,

596
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking like this guy is awesome, Like

597
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: I love this class. But I never thought to ask him,

598
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: like if I love to read and I love to

599
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: like write, like what should I be doing with my life?

600
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: Whereas I do think a lot of teens and like

601
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: young women approached me now and they're like, this is

602
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: what I love and this is what I think i'd

603
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: be good at. But I just didn't think to do that.

604
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't feel like we were all

605
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: that encouraged. It was like there I felt like as

606
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: a kid there there were to your point, serious professions

607
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: and then things that were fun but not serious. And

608
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: what I say now to people, it's like, look at

609
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: the clues in your life, what would you do, like

610
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: even if you weren't paid to do it, Like, what

611
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: would what would you do? And so if you love

612
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: like and sometimes people will say, well, like what my

613
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: favorite thing to do is go to the movies or

614
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: watch movies, and it's like, okay, what you can make

615
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: there's that that is a huge industry you're talking about.

616
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: There's something there. You could be a graphic designer. You

617
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: could be in production. You could be like, like, there's

618
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: just so much you can do. You can be in casting,

619
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: you could like, you know, like, you can be an editor.

620
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: There's just a lot you can do. Think about it.

621
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it just has to be something

622
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: you enjoy in your spare time. You could make it

623
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: a career. So when did it click for you that

624
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: it was a square padground whole situation? When did you

625
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: say premed is not for me. I struggled along with

626
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: organic chemistry and premed until I was a junior in college,

627
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: and then I kind of was like, I'm going to

628
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: do this last raw, like whoo, I'm gonna go crazy

629
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: last It's my last summer before I have to start

630
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: studying for the MCAT and taking like like this last

631
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: year seriously. And so when I was a sophomore, or

632
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: I think I was a junior, I was a junior

633
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: first semester, I was like, okay, like I'm gonna apply

634
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: for internships. I'm gonna do something fun for one summer,

635
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: just something kind of frivolous, like the equivalent of kind

636
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: of like the last Hurrah, and I applied. I didn't

637
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: know what I wanted to do, but I basically applied

638
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: for internships and like anything at companies, any company I

639
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: had heard of before in my life, and so I

640
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: applied for everything from like Random House, UM and Simon

641
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: and Schuster, like two companies whose books that I always like,

642
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: saw like the name of the company that published them,

643
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: and I just would go on their website look for

644
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: internship programs and just blindly send my resume off to

645
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: MTV just like it's MTV. And it's cool obviously to

646
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: UM like a talent agencies, because I feel like I

647
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: had read an article and like Variety or something about

648
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: agencies or something in Vanity Fair about like the way

649
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: agency's work. And so I applied to like William Morris

650
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: in the mail room and Cia in the mail room

651
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: to be an intern And then I applied for magazines

652
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: Harper's Bazaar because it's the only place that I really

653
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: could find an internship program application. And I got internship

654
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: offers from a bunch of places, but at the time,

655
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: Harper's Bazaar was the only one that paid, and I

656
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, three hundred dollars. This is

657
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: like three every other week, which was like six hundred dollars,

658
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: Like that's a lot of money, Like when you were

659
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: like I thought it was a lot of money. So

660
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: I got really excited. Um, and it was the only

661
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: one that paid. It was like six hundred dollars is

662
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: better than like zero dollars. And so I took that

663
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: internship and literally I had this like light over lightbulb

664
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: moment where I walked in and I was like, they're

665
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: like a hundred people in this office and it's their

666
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: job to make magazines what And so I met like

667
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: I was in the beauty department. So I literally like

668
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: on day one, walked into the office and they were like,

669
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: here's your beauty closet. Here's our beauty closet. And it's

670
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: like a room the size of this like studio, and

671
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: it was at least and it was filled with beauty

672
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: products wall to wall, like a wall paper wall to

673
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: wall of beauty products from Florida ceiling, wall to wall,

674
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: and so there was a section for like like a

675
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: special section of the wall just for eyeshadow, a special

676
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: section of the wall. And literally I like walked in

677
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: and was like, oh my God, and they were like, yeah,

678
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: all these products are from last season, so we can't

679
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: write about them anymore, and so can you please just

680
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: like clean it all out and like get rid of

681
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: all of it. And I was like, define get rid

682
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: of and they were like, well, just throw it out

683
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: unless you want to take it home and like or

684
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: whatever and play with it. And I literally like that night,

685
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: like this was back when cell phones were like Nokia

686
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: do do do do do do do you're texting in

687
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: T nine, Yeah, I'm texting where it's like I had

688
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: to press like the letter five like three times I

689
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: could get like the letter M. And I literally was like,

690
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: oh my god, guys, come over so many beauty products

691
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: and that was like I don't want to say it

692
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: was like those like fifteen garbage bags of beauty products

693
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: I brought home that night. But that literally was like

694
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: I cannot believe it's someone's job to like write a

695
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: try on eyeshadow and write about the one that's like

696
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: the best, so exciting, and so I like I that

697
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: was like the moment I realized. And so I was

698
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: split between the beauty department and the futurest department. So

699
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: half my job was to like play with makeup and

700
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: like play with shampoo and try things out and write

701
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: about it, or like I didn't really get to write

702
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: about it. Let's be real. I was like organizing it

703
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: and helping people prepared for them to write about it.

704
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: But I loved it. I didn't care. And then the

705
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: other half of my job was to work with the

706
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: books editor and help him organize books, like open packages

707
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: of books and so it like literally and that was

708
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: the same where it's like for every like one books

709
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: this guy got, he would maybe take one home. And

710
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: so that was books I could take home. And I

711
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: actually think I still have books from back then because

712
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: they're like called galleys and and and they're not kind

713
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: of finished the way a real book is finished. It's

714
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: like a paperback. It's not like nicely bound. But I

715
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: think I still have some books that I took like

716
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago that where I was like, I'll read

717
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: this one day, and I think I still have this

718
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: book to find one. Yeah, I know you need to

719
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: keep those. That's so cool. So you in turn at

720
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: Harper's Bazaar, which kind of changes everything, and then you

721
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: wind up at Oxford. I studied abroad at Oxford I

722
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: kind of was like, you know that this premed thing

723
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: isn't happening, like I should just like do something different.

724
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: And so I studied abroad at Oxford and I met

725
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: my husband there, which so we were like kind of

726
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: college sweethearts. I feel like weird saying college sweethearts because

727
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: that makes me think of like living in like going

728
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: to like Ohio State and him like you know, wearing

729
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: a varsity jacket and like, you know, it feels like

730
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 1: a movie. But we we met a long time ago, um,

731
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: and I studied abroad there and I loved it. And

732
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: the educational system in England is just like so different,

733
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: at least at Oxford, where it's like there are no

734
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: lectures at Oxford that are mandatory. It's like all based

735
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: on one on one, one on one education. So when

736
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: you are studying Shakespeare, you're literally sitting with like a

737
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: a Shakespeare what they call a tutor, and you have

738
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: to read these books in a week and you're graded

739
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: on discussions with your tutor and it's just just sitting there, chilling,

740
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: talking for three hours about like Hamlet. And for me

741
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: that was also kind of like a moment because I realized, like,

742
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, the way different people learn is really important

743
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: and optimizing for the way people learn, because maybe the

744
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: way the reason I kind of struggled so much in

745
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: pre men because it was all lectures that experience sounds

746
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: like my actual dream to sit and essentially do that,

747
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about thought is all I've ever

748
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: wanted to do. Like bury me in that class. You

749
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: should study at Oxford. I'm ready. Is that where we're

750
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: going or we're going to go to Greece And no, no,

751
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: Greece will be like our break after it will be

752
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: our spring. But it was like amazing and mad chicle

753
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: and so great in a different way of learning. And

754
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: that's like even now, like now, so many years later,

755
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: like that kind of made me realize that, like you know,

756
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: like people love going to like workout classes like um

757
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: where it's like thirty people in a room and they're

758
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: all sweating together and following the same directions. And I

759
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: never was good at following directions, and I always need

760
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: like a one on one session just like it's just

761
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: a better way for me to absorb. And now I

762
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: get it now, like I totally get and now when

763
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: I see my daughter, because like I was talking to

764
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: someone and they were like, oh, she does much better

765
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: and like smaller groups versus like and she loses focus

766
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: when she's in big groups. And I'm like, that's because

767
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: she's like a little me. And I didn't know that

768
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: back then, And like when I think back to what

769
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: I know now, it's like I would have done so

770
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: much better in college or like in high school and

771
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: just in general if i'd known that about me. So

772
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: how do you think about mentorship then? Like I wonder,

773
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: you know, after Oxford you are working at magazines and

774
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: you eventually wind up but Lucky I think I actually

775
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: remember the first time we met, telling you about how

776
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: when the first issue of Lucky came out, me and

777
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: my best friend from college, Brenna Egan, sat on the

778
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: lawn at USC and we were like, this magazine is

779
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: everything yea, and yeah that I mean Lucky. It was

780
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: genius when it came out, Like I still like the

781
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 1: founding editor, Kim France, like she is was a genius,

782
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: Like honestly, like it just so much of the voice

783
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: of that magazine where it was like friendly, accessible, it

784
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: didn't feel like snobby at all. You didn't feel weird

785
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: if like you didn't understand the print mixing thing, like

786
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: how do you mix stripes and florals? They kind of

787
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: demystified everything. I just I guess I'm wondering because you,

788
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, getting into this career in magazine and being

789
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: in a magazine like Lucky, learning what you did at

790
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: Oxford about how people learned differently in different communication strategies,

791
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: like how how did that inform your leadership in a

792
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: comitive place? And then and then what do you what

793
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: does that make you think about mentorship because it sounds

794
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: like your teachers, your tutors in place like Oxford really

795
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: become educational mentors. So I imagine that shaped your career afterwards. Yeah,

796
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: I mean I think, like even when I think about

797
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: so I went to grad school. When I was working

798
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: after I graduated, I worked at Lucky for a brief

799
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: stint in the fashion closet in the lowest job, like

800
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: literally checking credits, which means like check calling Banana Republic

801
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: and being like is that skirt in fact ninety six

802
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: dollars and like confirming that. But I weirdly enjoyed it

803
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: because finding like creating process, etcetera. But like for me,

804
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: I applied to grad school and it was actually one

805
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: of my professors. It was Robert Read far from from Hopkins,

806
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: who wrote my recommendation for Columbia for journalism school. Mentorship

807
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: is a funny thing, right, because I think that everyone

808
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: now is told they need to find a mentor, and

809
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: then I feel like a lot of young people will

810
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: be like, I need to find a mentor, and they'll

811
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: meet someone that they've never talked to before in their

812
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: life and they'll like, will you'd be my mentor? And

813
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: I feel like that's really tricky because it's like for

814
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: me personally at least, like I meet people and when

815
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: I if I I talked to them and if I

816
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: click with them, like it's about having a conversation. I

817
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: probably feel like I do something called informational interviews, where

818
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: like literally once a week for the last decade plus

819
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: that I've been working, I meet with someone I've never

820
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: met before and like for and it's only for fifteen

821
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: or twenty minutes, but I'm like, ask me questions, like go.

822
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: But I've done a few of those informational interviews where

823
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: I've clicked with someone and I've hired them, and so

824
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: like it's very rare. I don't want people listening to

825
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: this podcast to be like swarming me and then like

826
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: expecting jobs. But literally as recently as like three months ago,

827
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: I met someone and I was like, I just get

828
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: like great vibes from you, and I have a feeling

829
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: that like, and I hired her and she works for me.

830
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: Now have you learned about yourself in those interviews? Because

831
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: there are opportunities for people who you don't know and

832
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: and for young people who have questions. But what is

833
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: that process that fifteen to twenty minutes once a week

834
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: taught you about yourself? I think that it definitely has

835
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: helped me look back at my career and understand point

836
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: like things about myself, such as like I wish that

837
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 1: I had been more assertive earlier on in my career,

838
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: or like when I used to go to meetings, I

839
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: would be like quiet because I would like be like

840
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm the youngest person in the room. I don't want

841
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: to say anything because obviously, like I know the least

842
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: and realizing now and this is also like a generational

843
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: thing and different workplaces I think are different now. But

844
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: I wish I had kind of like known, like you know,

845
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: to speak up sooner and so like, and I see

846
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: common threads now, like you know, doing the hundreds probably

847
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: at these informational interviews, and so I see common threads

848
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: of what people, especially when they're early in their career,

849
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: are going through and the doubts that they have. And

850
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of what, like Cheryl Sandberg is called

851
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: like imposter syndrome, where they wonder like I don't deserve

852
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: to be here, how did I get all of this?

853
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: Like success or like recognition, etcetera. And especially for young

854
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: women a lot of the time, who they will think like, well,

855
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say anything. I don't want to be a

856
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: squeaky wheel. I don't want to be perceived as bitchy, bossy,

857
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: like all of these like quote unquote bad things. But

858
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: now in retrospect, I'm like, girl, you've got to speak

859
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: up because if you don't speak up, like someone else will.

860
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: And there are people also, people who have they get

861
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: what they want or what they need because they're speaking well.

862
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: They they will ask. And for every person who's scared

863
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: to ask, they're a hundred people who aren't scared to ask,

864
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: and they will get the job. So is that the

865
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: advice you would give to young creatives? Ask the question

866
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: get clear about what you want. Yeah, ask the questions,

867
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to kind of speak up and if

868
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: something is not clear. I mean, like I feel lucky

869
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: that I work in a place full time where transparency

870
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: is valued and we're trying to be very transparent. Um

871
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: and like all the managers I have, like they're very

872
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: transparent about like whether it's they're struggle holes or like

873
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: things that they're happening in their personal and professional life.

874
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: And I do think that's something that like the next

875
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: generation of employees like they're looking for that kind of

876
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: like transparency. And if you're working in a place where

877
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: it's like they don't treat you well, where the leadership,

878
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: especially like if they're don't treat women well or disrespectful

879
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: towards women, or not accepting to people as three and

880
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: sixty degree human beings who also have Like I mean,

881
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: for me, it's like I leave work, I'm here with

882
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: you right now. You know, we're talking about lots of

883
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 1: different things, including like personal life, my books, which technically

884
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: are personal projects. We're talking about kids. Like the people

885
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: I work with know that like generally from like six

886
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: to eight thirty PM, I'm off, like I'm not working.

887
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: I can't work because it's like I have the full

888
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: time job of like showering attention on my like little

889
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: human beings that I'm trying to like you know, have

890
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: them like just like have that those magical moments with

891
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: them while they're young. But like, mentorship is a tricky thing.

892
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: It's like you, it's like a two way street. It's

893
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: not just about like someone who's entering the workforce kind

894
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: of clicking with someone older. It has to be the

895
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: other way around too, because I learn a lot from

896
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: the people that I feel like I mentor. And it's

897
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: probably like less than five, probably six people that I

898
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: feel like I have an invested, long term investment in

899
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: their careers. That's what mentorships about. It's not just one conversation.

900
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: It's like checking in, keeping in touch, and caring about

901
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: someone like inside and out. I love how how is

902
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: the experience of being a mom is to your point,

903
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: you you have to set aside all of this time

904
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: for work and for your kids, and you and you

905
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: do now write children's books, Oh my gosh, Like I've

906
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: always I've literally always wanted to write children's books. Um

907
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: and in fact, the first career before like pre med,

908
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: but I remember being so. My mom and dad traveled

909
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: a lot when I was growing up, and my mom

910
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: would go to like we would go to Taiwan, we

911
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: would go to Korea, we would go like everywhere, and

912
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: literally I was like a very easy travel companion because

913
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: my mom would just like I would have the Babysitters

914
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: Club books or something, and literally I would be set

915
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: like the Ramono, the Quimby books or Beverly Clearly books,

916
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: and I'd be fine, and my mom could literally take

917
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: me anywhere and I would just sit and read quietly.

918
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: I don't know that my daughter would do that, but honestly,

919
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: that's what I was like. And I remember being like

920
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: eight years old being in a factory, I want to say,

921
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: in like Rhode Island maybe, where my mom was like

922
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: sourcing materials or something for something that they were like manufacturing,

923
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: and I remember like having one of those black and

924
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: white composition books and drawing like uh, kind of like

925
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: cartoon and being like I want to when some someone

926
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: at the factory asking me like, what do you want

927
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: to be when you grow up, and me being like

928
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: I want to be a cartoonist. And honestly, it was terrible.

929
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: It was stick figures. I was not meant to be

930
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: a cartoonist. And then I remember writing like I was

931
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: obsessed with the Babysitters Club growing up. I let read

932
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: like probably like all one of those books. I think

933
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: they're a hundred and sixty seven of them, And I

934
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: remember like writing a fake version of the Babysitters Club,

935
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: like a designer imitation knockoff Babysitters Club that was like

936
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: the camp Counselor's Club, and it was literally like about

937
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: like Summer Camp Counselors, which like I should like write

938
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: that book. Now, were you ever a camp counselor. I was.

939
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: I was when I was like sixteen years old. It

940
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: was a camp in the city, but it was still

941
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: like called Summer Start. I was like, I don't know.

942
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: I went to Goldero Camp and I recently discovered that

943
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: they're on Instagram, and I had got down I'm very

944
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: excited about you should deal with that. You No, I

945
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: mean it's like a huge I'm like, where is Sunshine?

946
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: Tell me everything? Yeah, it's like but like I so,

947
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: I remember writing a fake version of the Babysitters Club,

948
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: and probably it was terrible. I wish I still had

949
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: that notebook. Because I probably would like frame it or something.

950
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: But I have always wanted to write children's books. And

951
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: I also think because there's something very like pure and

952
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: like just like I don't know, like whole wholesome. I

953
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: guess about children's books like like and it's they impact

954
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: kids for so like now, when I read a book

955
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: and it's an amazing book, like like I love the

956
00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: book The Art of Fielding. I don't know if you've

957
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: read that book. It's about baseball, but I loved it.

958
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't consider myself a sporty person, but like,

959
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: it's an amazing book anyway. So I read that book

960
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: and it impacted me and it moved me and I

961
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: loved it. But for some reason, I think back to

962
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: the books I read when I was like eight, ten, twelve,

963
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: and I remember them like so much more clearly and

964
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: like they moved me. So what was it like to

965
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: finally start? Where? Where does the idea come from? How

966
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: does one begin? In children's book? Books are okay? So

967
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: children's books are really shockingly hard. They seem like they

968
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: would be easy because you're like, oh, it's like six

969
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: d words or a thousand words whatever, and it's for

970
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 1: a kid who doesn't have to be that good. They're

971
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: so hard because it's like everything has to be really tight.

972
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: Then you have to match the words to the pictures,

973
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: and then like you get the pictures back and they

974
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: don't match the words and you have to rewrite the words.

975
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: And so for my first book, it was very much

976
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: a work in progress. I gotta like throw that in there.

977
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: But um, there is a specific kind of set in

978
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: a cadence to it. And it's like a using to

979
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: go to these readings and meet all these parents and

980
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: get tagged on Instagram or people tag me like in

981
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: pictures of them reading the book to the kids, and

982
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: then meeting Um, I met this woman who was like,

983
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: oh my god, my daughter asks calls your book the

984
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: Purple Book, and she asks for it every night. It

985
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: just makes me feel really good, like it's it's really

986
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: a feel good process and for my daughter, Like I

987
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: mean I didn't I definitely think like what finally pushed

988
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: me over the edge to write those books was my daughter,

989
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: because it was it was, you know, a tough time

990
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: emotionally for me as a woman, like I went to

991
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 1: an all girl like my most formative years in terms

992
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: of education, and like me turning into me, I would say,

993
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: was the all girls school. I want to um because

994
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 1: I feel like I was never told I felt very lucky.

995
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: In the most formative years of like thirteen to or

996
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: I think twelve to seventeen, I was always told like

997
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: a woman can be president, a woman can go into space,

998
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: a woman can do this, a woman can do that.

999
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: And there was just like no narrative of women can't

1000
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: or like watch out like one day when you have

1001
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: babies and you stay at home, like that was just

1002
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: never part of the narrative. And so when I went

1003
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: to college, I was always shocked when people were like, oh, well,

1004
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: like I don't know, or like we're not sure that

1005
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: women can and it's like what They're like, what what

1006
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: universe are we living? Yeah, And so for me was

1007
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: really like kind of like I like really struggled. It's

1008
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: like I did too, because I felt like it was

1009
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: a reinforcement of all the wrong things, and not just

1010
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: the wrong things, but all of the worst things, worst

1011
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: things exactly. And so for me, it's like I believe

1012
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: that there's no amount of times that a kid can

1013
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: be told a young child talking about a three year

1014
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: old to a ten, like ten year old being told

1015
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: like you can do whatever you want, boy, girl doesn't matter,

1016
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: Like any child needs to be told that they can

1017
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: do what they want, that they can achieve what they

1018
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: set their hearts and minds to. They just need the

1019
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: right support, right, And so I wrote this book about

1020
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: this little girl who loses her favorite pairs pair of

1021
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: shows Valentine, and she like finds, you know, she tries

1022
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: on the shoes of Cleopatra, frieda Carlo, like Anna Wint

1023
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: or you know, yahya sama, and just kind of tries

1024
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: on all these shoes. None of them fit her quite right,

1025
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: and she makes mistakes so that she knows that, like,

1026
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: you know, you should try in a lot of pair

1027
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 1: of shoes and you should fail, like it's okay to fail.

1028
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things the reasons why I

1029
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 1: chose the illustrator we weren't with because I kept getting

1030
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: illustrations test illustrations from all all these various illustrators, and

1031
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: they kept making Juno Valentine so pretty and so adorable

1032
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: and so cute. But they didn't show her feeling angry,

1033
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: They didn't show her feeling frustrated, They didn't show her

1034
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: feeling sad. And then Derek, who's this like my amazing illustrator.

1035
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to see her like mad.

1036
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 1: I want to see her sad, I want to see

1037
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: her confused, and he did such a good one job

1038
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: here as a whole person. I want to see her

1039
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: like because we don't especially want girls to feel like

1040
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: they always have to be smiling, you know, and that's

1041
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: the worst when someone's like, you'd be so much prettier

1042
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: if you smiled, or smile, like you're going to be

1043
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: less pretty when I punch you in the face and

1044
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: break her now, And I'm like, do people tell young

1045
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: boys to smile? No? And so like that's part of

1046
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: the thing where it's like I wanted this book to

1047
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: kind of reinforce the girl that the girl said it's

1048
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: good to have a whole spectrum of emotions and also

1049
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: know that like it's okay to take time to figure

1050
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: out what you want to do, because that that was

1051
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: the case for me. And so it's been a dream.

1052
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: Like so a lot of the books that I mentioned,

1053
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: like The Babysitters Club, So my editor Jean Firewell, who says, like, awesome,

1054
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: like legend in the children's book publishing she has tattoos,

1055
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: she's cool, She's raised this strong independent daughter. She published

1056
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: The Babysitters Club. She just she worked. She came up

1057
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: with the idea and worked with the author Ann Martin,

1058
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: and so literally like and you know what, I was

1059
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: rejected from McMillan, like the first time. Basically it was

1060
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: like a whole thing where it's like I was going

1061
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: on book like, you know, doing all these book pitch meetings,

1062
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: and then someone who worked at mcm allen dm man

1063
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: was like, what are you doing? Is this like part

1064
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: of Instagram? Are you selling a book? What's going on?

1065
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: Why aren't you at McMillan, by the way, And I

1066
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: was like, and I checked with my agent and I

1067
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: was like, what's going on? Why Allison's asking why aren't

1068
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: we seeing McMillan and my agent Kate, who was like amazing.

1069
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: Kate was like, you tell Allison that you rejected the

1070
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 1: book and it's too late, and so I told Allison.

1071
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm really sorry, but like I think

1072
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: you guys rejected my book. So that's why I'm not

1073
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: hanging out with you. And then she basically got me

1074
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: a meeting with Jean, and Jean was like wrong, we

1075
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: have not rejected you, and here's an offer, and so

1076
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: like I think that's also like you know what a sign?

1077
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: It was a sign, and I feel like sometimes and

1078
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: then like you read stories like I J. K. Rowling

1079
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: like was rejected. I know all these like weird facts

1080
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: about rejection because it's like I'm researching it for like

1081
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: another children's book, and basically it's like J. K. Rowling

1082
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: was rejected twelve times, like Zaha Hadid the architect like

1083
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: her original design for one of her iconic buildings, the

1084
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: opera house in China, the Guang Joe Opera House, which

1085
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: is like considered like an architectural like Wonder of the

1086
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: Universe was rejected at first um and it wasn't made

1087
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: until sixteen years later. I know all these like weird

1088
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 1: facts right now about like awesome women, like the number

1089
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: of times like a sufferget what like Emily and Pankhurst

1090
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: was like arrested to get women the right to vote

1091
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 1: in England. I know all these like weird I'm I'm

1092
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: a repository of weird facts about awesome women. So I

1093
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: have a question when you think about facts about awesome women,

1094
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: when you think about rejection, when you think about the

1095
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: things that you learned, you know, in your career, your

1096
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: entire incredible magazine career and winding up now working in tech.

1097
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: And also the way that you grew up. You know,

1098
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: when you talk about being a daughter of immigrants, pursuing

1099
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: the American dream and growing up in a house where

1100
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: you spoke Chinese at home and you spoke English at school.

1101
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: You you had to tow lines and in a way

1102
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, you had to do a

1103
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: lot of code switching. And you are writing these books

1104
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: to make sure that your kids know that they're allowed

1105
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 1: to try things and to fail and to be curious

1106
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,439
Speaker 1: and all of this. How do you bridge the sort

1107
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: of cultural gap that you lived in as a kid

1108
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: for your own kids, Like, what what do you bring

1109
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 1: them from your family's culture? What does Tom bring them?

1110
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: How how do you talk to them about that that

1111
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: experience in the world. And yeah, because it's an additional

1112
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: layer of complexity. As Thomas British, so it's like and

1113
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: that is a different culture as well, especially in terms

1114
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 1: of like my parents, it's like they talk very loudly.

1115
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: My mom is a passionate woman. Uh, she's like born

1116
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: in the year of the tiger, so like the whole

1117
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: tiger mom stereotype, it's not untrue, uh, and she like

1118
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: gets worked up about things. And then English culture which

1119
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: is like I don't want to say stiff up, stiff

1120
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: upper lip, but it is a little bit more like

1121
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, proper, proper and like not like when my

1122
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: parents are feeling emotion about things. There is shouting, there

1123
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 1: is screaming. My mom like they show their like they're

1124
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: incapable of speaking in a normal tone of voice. Everything

1125
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: is I'm like, why are you screaming? We're talking about

1126
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: like fissans like what um. Whereas it's like very like

1127
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: muted and very like you know, thank you so much,

1128
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: like you know, and there's always music, classical music playing

1129
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: in Tom's family, like on the like in the background.

1130
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 1: It's very like relaxing and soothing. I mean, I really

1131
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: believe that like people, what makes them different and what

1132
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: makes them kind of that what might be a source

1133
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: of friction or kind of like I'm not sure, almost

1134
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: always ends up being your superpower, right, And so for me,

1135
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: I feel like that was always the case when I

1136
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: was in fashion. I didn't feel like I was like

1137
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: fashion eating like when I worked in fashion magazines. When

1138
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: when I transitioned from beauty to fashion especially, I never

1139
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: felt that was fashioning enough. I felt like I was

1140
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,439
Speaker 1: like maybe too nice, too friendly. I I am very

1141
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: like I wear my heart on my sleeve. I cry

1142
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 1: very easily. I cried. I've cried like four times today,

1143
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: by the way, you know. And so, and that always

1144
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: made me different. And I remember thinking like, am I

1145
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: like fashioning enough to work in fashion? And my husband

1146
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: was like are you crazy? Like that's what makes you

1147
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: different and like special and good right, And so when

1148
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: I think about raising my kids, it's like I don't

1149
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: want I want them to be the best versions of themselves.

1150
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: And it's two, it's very early. Like my my daughter's

1151
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: four and a half. My son is like two and

1152
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: a half. I've even seen my daughter. She used to

1153
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: like not want to wear two two. She used to

1154
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: not want to wear dresses like she would wear like

1155
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: leggings in a sweatshirt. And now every day she likes

1156
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: going into her closet and choosing something. And that didn't

1157
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 1: come from me. I always was like, oh, where whatever

1158
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: you want, or it's not a big deal. And whenever

1159
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: someone used to say like, oh, you look so pretty today.

1160
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: I would be like and I'm that crazy mom like

1161
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: rand but you know, the most important thing is not pretty,

1162
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: because pretty just like mean anything. You have to be

1163
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 1: pretty in here and pretty in here, pointing at my

1164
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 1: heart and like my like you know, my my head.

1165
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: And she'd be always like okay, mom. And then the

1166
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: other day, like my dad, we were face timing and

1167
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: my dad was like, oh, Wren, you look so pretty

1168
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: and my my my daughter was like, Wren was like

1169
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not pretty, I'm brave, and I like

1170
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: started crying. I started bawling. I was like, oh my god,

1171
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: it's working work. But it's like she knows how powerful

1172
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: she is. Yeah, but it's like really like I I

1173
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: want to raise my kids without like the expectations of

1174
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: like what they have to be or they should be.

1175
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: Like my son loves putting on like my shoes and

1176
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: running around the apartment. It's like sometimes their heels and

1177
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: it's like just an experimentation thing and kind of like

1178
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: playing dress up kind of thing. And I remember when

1179
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: that happened with Jenna Lyons, Like I don't know if

1180
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: you remember. There was a big controversy like probably five

1181
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: or six years ago where Jenna Lyons like putting nail

1182
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: polish on her son and it was like a big thing,

1183
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: and I'm like, they're having fun cares, you know, and

1184
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: it's like let your kids kind of like I think

1185
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: that's the most important thing. Let it all play out.

1186
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: And that's what I've learned as a mother, I would say,

1187
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: is like any kind of notion that you have that

1188
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: you can control something, you have zero control. And I

1189
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: think that's been very humbling for me as a person.

1190
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: Um Like I used to kind of organize everything and

1191
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,439
Speaker 1: send a calendar invite and triple confirms something. And now

1192
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: especially I'm just kind of like, I don't know. We

1193
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: have to play it by ear anything. With my kids especially,

1194
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, we'll see, we'll see what time we get there.

1195
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: I used to have an itinerary. We would arrive at

1196
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: this place by this time. Then we would like put

1197
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: our bags down, unpack, and then it would be this time.

1198
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: And now I'm literally like, we'll see what happens. Maybe

1199
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: we'll get there, maybe we'll have to check into a

1200
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: motel in the way I guess like so and so

1201
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: has like get sick. You just never know. Yeah, I

1202
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: imagine there's some freedom in that. Yeah, freedom slash anxiety,

1203
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: but yeah, freedom and that like you kind of just

1204
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: they kind of force you. It's like a definitely a

1205
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: grounding mechanism. Like it's like and they it also forces

1206
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: you to slow down as as a human because like

1207
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: I feel like growing up in New York City, everything's

1208
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: go go go around you all the time. Once you

1209
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: kind of like get kind of going in your career,

1210
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: it's go go go all the time sometimes, or you know,

1211
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: if you're kind of like going through a career kind

1212
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: of swing. But then with kids, it's like you can't

1213
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: rush it. You literally like they would do things in

1214
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: their own time. They develop on their own time, they

1215
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: choose when they want a potty train, they choose when

1216
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: they like it's and then I don't the harder you push,

1217
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: the more they resist. And so that for me has

1218
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 1: been a lesson as well. Can't make anything happen, right.

1219
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: So I know that maybe kids could be an answer

1220
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: to this, and maybe the new book could be an

1221
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: answer to this. But as you mentioned, the title of

1222
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: the podcast is work in progress. And I like to

1223
00:59:54,840 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: ask everyone whether it's something personal or professional, or political

1224
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 1: or throwing itineraries away. Who knows what what in your

1225
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: life right now feels like a work in progress. I

1226
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: feel like my entire life is kind of a work

1227
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: in progress, which is like hard, um, because I'm going

1228
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: right now through a phase where it's like my younger

1229
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: one is starting to like have his own activities and

1230
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: have his own circle of friends. He's two and a half,

1231
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: and he has like a very robust social life, and

1232
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: it's like it's really hard to schedule like his life,

1233
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: schedule my daughter's life, schedule my own life, and so

1234
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: that my social life is a work in progress because

1235
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't exist right now. Um. And I went into

1236
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: this new year with like the new year's goal of

1237
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: being like I need to see my friends more like

1238
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm like losing We keep in touch,

1239
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: we text, we whatsopp we are talking all the time,

1240
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 1: but like seeing someone in person, and so that's a

1241
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: work in progress. And then definitely, like I would say,

1242
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: like my journey as like it's taken me time to

1243
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: like accept that I'm like I have this like side

1244
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: career of an author, and we have like a clothing

1245
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: line that comes with it, and it's like this amazing

1246
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: thing that I'm so enjoying doing. But it was very

1247
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: hard when my book, my first book came out last year,

1248
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: because I was learning how to write a children's book

1249
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: and I was learning what works were a children's book.

1250
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: And I'm so proud of this new book that's coming out.

1251
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: I love it. The narrative is really tight, like I

1252
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: know how to write children's books now, but especially around

1253
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: my first book, it was really hard to read the reviews,

1254
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: like and I'm sure as like you know, an actress,

1255
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: like you're told the same thing, probably like don't read

1256
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: reviews because it's like people are not don't read comments exactly,

1257
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: and it's like that was like really hard. I remember

1258
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: like reading these reviews and people would like it was

1259
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: just like like one or two and people were like

1260
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: so mean, and I was like, I don't know if

1261
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: they know that I literally like put my soul into

1262
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: this children's book. It wasn't like a vanity project. Literally,

1263
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 1: like you don't really make money writing like books, children's books,

1264
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: at least like you have to do because you really

1265
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: want to do it. And so for me, the journey

1266
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: to becoming an author has been definitely a work in

1267
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: progress for me, and like self acceptance as like an

1268
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: awareness that it's like a thing now has been really

1269
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: like amazing slash kind of like scary, Yeah, to self

1270
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: identify as that, because I was thinking, like, over the weekend,

1271
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: I was like, well, like what would I want? I

1272
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 1: was I go to bookstores every weekend with like especially

1273
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: Ran because she loves books, um, which makes me so happy.

1274
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: And every weekend I was thinking back, It's like when

1275
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: I was growing up, I would go with my mom

1276
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: to these factories and I would be sitting there reading

1277
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: a book, like, is my is Ran going to remember

1278
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: going to bookstores with me? Is that going to be

1279
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: the thing that she remembers? And then I started crying

1280
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: and it was like a whole thing because it's like

1281
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: it I hope that that is like the thing she remembers,

1282
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: like coming to bookstores with me and like being involved

1283
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: in that whole process. I'm sure she will, And what

1284
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: a cool thing it will be for her to be

1285
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: sitting in our position one day and say, yeah, my

1286
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: mom started writing these children's books for me. I think

1287
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: she's trying to make me cry because it's working. Yeah,

1288
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: but that's so cool. I can't wait. You made me

1289
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: cry for the sixth time today. My god, I cried

1290
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: this morning because like I went to camp and every

1291
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: kid I showed up a camp and every kid was

1292
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: in like freaking superhero costumes, and I'm like, oh my god,

1293
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: today was Superhero day at school and I like a

1294
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: camp and I totally forgot. I'm like standing there and

1295
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: when's the only one not in a superhero costume? And

1296
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh my god, I'm a terrible mom.

1297
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: And then I was like and some like crappy person

1298
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: was like, you are a bad mom on Instagram. And

1299
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: then I was like, and I am I allowed to

1300
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: say fuck, I'm like sucking blocking you jackass. And then

1301
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: I like screen grabbed me blocking him. Yeah, I do

1302
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: that sometimes it feels like an active resistance. Yeah, but

1303
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: I also feel like for me at least, my Instagram

1304
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: community is like so supportive and it's all these like

1305
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: most of my followers are. I think it's like women

1306
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 1: and everyone was like so nice about it, and it's

1307
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 1: like one mean person. And so I really took advantage

1308
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: of like Instagram's full suite of tools of blocking and

1309
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: like reporting and all of that stuff. Also, what's wrong

1310
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: with you? Someone's expressing that they're a real person who

1311
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: isn't always perfect, and you're and you're shifting all over

1312
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 1: them in that moment, and my daughter literally like of course,

1313
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: like and this is like something as women. It's like

1314
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: my daughter literally did not care. She because like I

1315
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: bumped into another mom who was so great, and she

1316
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we have an extra mask, do you

1317
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: want it? And I was like, man, like, do you

1318
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: want to dress up like everyone else? Do you want

1319
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: to be a superhero like Sam and Sebastian and Ari

1320
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: and like like um Jane. And she literally was like no,

1321
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm happy like being me. And I was

1322
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: like and then I look, I'm raising a good kid.

1323
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: But then I was like, you know, she didn't care.

1324
01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: But it's more like the expectations that like women especially

1325
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: and I think moms especially, we put on ourselves to

1326
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: like have it all handled. And that's why, at least

1327
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 1: for me on my Instagram, like I show when I

1328
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: like for if I forget like school superhero Day, I'm

1329
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: posting about that on Instagram not to overshare, but to

1330
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: give my followers, who are all awesome, like permission to

1331
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: be Like the number of comments were like I dropped

1332
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: my daughter off dressed up as Hawaiian uh like hula dancer,

1333
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize that the next it was actually

1334
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: the next day, and so she was the only one

1335
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: in like coconut boobs and like a grass skirt, and

1336
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I guess that's like that definitely

1337
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: made me feel better. Yeah, but that's the reminders everyone's human,

1338
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 1: and I think the more we can be our full

1339
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: selves in our public spaces the better, because otherwise we're

1340
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: just lying that we're perfect, and none of us is.

1341
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: We are all such a work in progress. Yeah, it's

1342
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 1: like for for for the kid, like especially for like

1343
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: all the women out there and the twenty some things

1344
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: who were like I was talking to someone over the

1345
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: weekend and she was like, I just feel like everyone

1346
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: my age has it all figured out and we go

1347
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 1: out to brunch and they all have these amazing jobs

1348
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: and these amazing boyfriends and they don't ever ask like

1349
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: feel lost. And I'm like, I guarantee you they all

1350
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 1: feel lost. They're just hiding it. And it's like if

1351
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: you if you're the first one to be like I

1352
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: feel like I'm barely holding it together, it usually gives

1353
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: people permission to kind of say like, oh my god,

1354
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: me too, this happened. And I see that on my

1355
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: personal Instagram. I see that when I like talk to

1356
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: my friends, where everyone's like, oh my god, how's this,

1357
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: how's that? Congratulations on your promotion. But then the moment

1358
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: someone says something like, oh my god, this happened and

1359
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: I forgot this huge thing where I was late to

1360
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: this meeting because like something else happened people, it just

1361
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: gives people permission to like let it all out, and

1362
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: then it's usually this like feeling of like like relief

1363
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: that like you know, that feeling of relief where it

1364
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: feels like someone's cracked a relief egg on your head

1365
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: and it just like spreads on you. Like It's like,

1366
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: I think women need to give each other permission to

1367
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: kind of like be the first and not be afraid

1368
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: also be brave enough to be the first to admit

1369
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: that something went wrong. Yes, work in progress. This show

1370
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: is executive produced by me, Sophia Bush and sim Sarna.

1371
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our associate producer is

1372
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: Kate Linley, Our editor is Josh Wendish, and our music

1373
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: was written by Jack Garrett and Produced by Mark Foster.

1374
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: This show is brought to you by Cloion Anatomy