WEBVTT - Relevancy 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.080 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.960 get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:16.800 acclaimed dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's like 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.320 a ghost. We had an agreement to keep each other's secret. 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.119 None of you are making decisions to keep the rest 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.200 of us safe, which leaves me I'm asking for your 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:32.520 forgiveness after Shock season two, starring Sarah Wayne Kelly's David 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.720 Harbor and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listen to after Shock on 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.040 the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.080 I'm will daily. For years have been on the road, 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.400 playing shows and seeing America through live music. This summer, 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.440 I'll hit the stage. Season two of Sound of Our 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:53.480 Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.160 the live music venues and culture of a new American city. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.080 With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:00.680 of venues you want to get to when you land 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.200 in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen to Sound of 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.040 Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:15.440 you get your podcasts. Rita Newcome is somebody we've known 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.040 about since the arrests were made in this case back 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.399 in November of twenty eighteen, and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.959 She claimed that Angela told her that if you don't 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:31.120 do this, they're going to hurt me. Can you imagine 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.200 your daughter is basically begging you not to turn her in, 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:36.840 and then you come to find out that she's essentially 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:40.679 bringing you into a murder investigation and leaving you under 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:45.360 the bus. You know, a lot of times in this case, 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.400 it feels like they're doing more to convict Jake and 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:53.320 Angela than they are George. We've are in custody of 0:02:53.520 --> 0:03:04.360 his son. What did he want? You can't custody? This 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:10.480 is The Pikes and Massacre Season four, episode sixteen relevancy. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.120 I'm Courtneyard Shawan, a television producer at Katie Studios with 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.880 Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We're picking up after last 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:22.800 episode's testimony from Chris Newcomb, Angelo Wagner's half brother and 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.560 uncle to George and Jake Wagner. On the stand now 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.679 is Chris Newcomb's partner, Miranda Hughes. She opted out of 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.679 video recording, but allowed audio recording of her testimony. It's 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.280 important to note that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.920 not guilty on accounts ass as his father, Billy Wagner, 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:47.920 whose trial is upcoming. Thank you, good morning. How are 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.839 you nervous? You get that a lot from that chair. 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.760 Miranda opted out of being videotaped, but allowed her verbal 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.880 testimony to be recorded. Did Randa echoed much of Chris 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:07.120 Newcomb's testimony about Jake and George Wagner's disconcerting die job. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.840 Were there any conversations about that at that time when 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.280 you saw them with their hair dyed? Yes? And what 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.120 was that? Well that? Why did they do it? And 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.720 Jake said he wanted to look like I think it's 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.920 names Norman reads Norman readers, Yeah, I told him he 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.280 was far from that. But both JP and George had 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.880 their hair come yes, okay? And did you know who 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:38.440 dyed their hair? Angela? And after the homicides, did that 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.400 fact that they had dyed their hair cause you to 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:49.599 think something? Yes? Okay? And what was that? Made me worry? Why? 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.600 Because why would you change your parents? And then something 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.559 like that happened. Randa also backed up Chris's claims about 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.440 George's desire for a clock pistol? Was there ever a 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:08.560 time weird you were present for helping to obtain a 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:22.560 forty caliber clock for George. Yes, sure, Okay, Well, I'm 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:32.600 gonna overly objection the answer standing questions. Can you tell 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:37.720 us about that? Yeah? He asked Chris if he knew 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.320 of anybody that had a glock. Had Chris said that 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.359 he didn't know of anybody at the moment, but that 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.560 he could look for him. And when Chris found one, 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.919 I think George wanted it. So we met up with 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.880 the guy. But George wanted us to go because Chris 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.000 had been the one talking to him. Okay, And did 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.000 you accompany Chris? Yeah? Day, okay? And do you remember 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.359 where you met up with this individual? I don't know 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.200 exactly where. I just know it was a park and ride. 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.680 Randa also made some revealing statements about how George and 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.719 Jake asked her and Chris Nukam to secure custody of 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.800 their kids in case they went to prison after the 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:24.360 Wagoners were charged in these offenses. Did they want you 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:29.080 and Chris to do certain things? Yes? Regarding custody of 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.440 his son. What did he want you to do? And 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:38.960 get custody? Get custody? Okay? And how do you know that? 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:44.080 Because I asked? Okay? Well, George asked Okay, George asked, 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.560 and did anybody else ask you? Yes? Who else? Angela 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:53.560 and Jake? Okay, they all three asked you guys to 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.760 try to get custody of yes, correct, And did you 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.440 get an attorney to do that? Yes? But once the 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.680 Wagners were arrested, Chris and Randa abandoned their custody efforts. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.080 Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the very first time 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:16.000 I'm personally hearing that George and Angela and Jake wanted 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.239 Chris and Randa to be the guardians and the children. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.440 And of course, you know, if you're getting arrested and 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.200 going away from murder, you would want your close family 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.320 member to have custody of your child. But you know, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.800 at least one of the children George's in this case 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.360 had a mom who could have raised him. That being said, though, 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.920 George had told Chris and Randa that he wanted them 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.960 to have custody, and they were apparently pushing for that 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.720 until they actually met Tabby and realized that she was 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:43.520 not who George had made her out to be. She 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.080 was actually a good mom and a nice person, and 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.120 George's son had a nice life with her, So they 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.720 dropped any efforts to get custody of the children after Jake, George, 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.679 and Angela and Billy were finally arrested, and for whatever reason, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.920 the Wagners believed that they were the only people who 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.520 could raise their children and the only people that should 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.520 be raising their children. But it seems like ultimately Chris 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.760 and Randy disagreed. And I still don't think we're getting 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.960 the fall explanation as to why that is, other than 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.320 that the Wagoners simply wanted to control these children. Forensic 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.520 investigator Joseph Scott Morgan sheds light on the place of 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.320 Randy Hughes's testimony and the trial. With Hughes, you know, 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.520 she kind have had an insight into their world that 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.960 not many other people had. I think, you know, you 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.800 kind of get to to peek under the covers a 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.880 little bit with her. You got to see kind of 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.240 some of the insights as it applied to custody issues 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.240 and kids, and you know, that was the big thing, 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.360 you know, because that goes to motive, I think, and 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.840 we have to understand that. I think a lot of 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:58.320 people are mistaken when they think about prosecution. Prosecution does 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.320 not have proved motives that's not what the purpose of 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.040 this is. However, it does go to getting a feel 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.079 for what family dynamic was like of the familial environment. 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.319 I think that's that's very significant, and you know, it's 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.560 thrilled as we get about hearing people talk about forensics 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.319 and getting down into the nuts and bolts of things. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.800 I don't think that it is as significant as you know, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.360 being able to get an peak into this world. In 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.280 his cross defense, attorney Richard Nash tried to pin the 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.400 fascination with The Walking Dead on Jake. He was the 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.200 one who modeled his killings after the show's lead character, 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.480 not George the man on child. And there was some 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:45.480 discussion speaking of hair color. Jake had told you that 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.680 I think he wanted to look like Norman Redis. Yes, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.120 and Norman Redis Is he the main character in the 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.480 Walking Day, He's kind of one of the main characters 0:09:55.559 --> 0:10:00.000 of The Walking Dead. Yes, And Jake had a fascination 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.120 with Norman. Yes, Okay, I saw you really give me 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.200 a positive response to that. And you've watched The Walkie Gay, Yes, 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.440 I have, And so your familiarity with the movie, Yeah, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.600 how do you kill a zombie? They shoot him in 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:20.400 the head. The jury also heard about the tattoos that Billy, George, 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.160 and Jake got after the murders. Jake got one of 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.560 flaming pistols on his upper arms. Billy and George's were 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:31.640 a bit more problematic again, and Geanette after the homicides, 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:33.720 you know, about a month and a half later or so, 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.840 June to twenty seventeen, he and Jake and George went 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:43.040 and they got tattoos. Billy's tattoo is a scorpion with 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:47.400 eight notches on it, and the prosecution thinks that that 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.960 holds some significance. We have eight victims in this case, 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:55.199 and a scorpion, which can be fatal, is on his 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.520 right finger, which could be his trigger finger if he's 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:03.240 right handed, and he's got this tattoo with you know, 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:08.680 signifying something that can be deadly on his hand. George, 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.720 on the other hand, has something that's an eight ball 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.160 inside a skeleton's mouth with some aces on the sides, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.440 you know, playing cards. Aces. I'm not you know, I 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.400 don't know if it's a coincidence. I don't. Obviously, the 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.520 prosecution feels like it's significant and it's relevant that the 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.960 number eight is common in these tattoos, a scorpion with 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.120 eight abdominal segments, a skull binding down on an eight 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:39.439 ball eight mode instead. Some people see the correlation, others 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.480 wonder why it's admissible. It's kind of strange because we, 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.520 I guess the judge is letting the jury look at 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.640 this and see if it's relevant. I mean, it's up 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.079 to the jury to determine whether or not the tattoos 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.360 are relevant. I'm not sure, you know, I could see 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.160 the scorpion being relevant, possibly the eight ball in the 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.480 skeleton's mouth. I think we just have to wait to 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.000 see how their testimony plays out. Joseph Morgan is more dubious. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.880 I would have said that years ago the tattoos may 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:13.240 have carried more weight. I think I'm recalling them my mind, 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.760 you know, you know, being for instance, in the Morgue, 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.360 I remember a couple of cases where I had people 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:24.280 who were legitimately folks that had worked as assassins in prison. 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.480 They wanted him dying when they finally get on the 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.560 outside and they have the tear drop tattoos. You know, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.520 you always knew that point somebody that had committed a 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.960 homicide you had to chew put crosses on the hands 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.240 that you know, there's little crosses with the little radiating 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.559 lines that you know, you can tell somebody as a 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.640 drug dealer or an arm stealer, or they're an assassin. 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.839 They used to tell these tales. But you know the 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.360 problem is people use tattoos now to try to create 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.320 an image for themselves. Maybe you could get a tattoo 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.640 expert to pop up on stand and say, oh, yeah, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.360 based on the structure of this thing, this is generally 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:02.720 associated with people that are, you know, involved in this 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.760 type of behavior, particularly if you're talking about gangs and whatnot. 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.880 But you know, you can say that all day long. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.760 I mean, I've seen some pretty horrific things. Images of 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.800 these tattoos that people walk around in public with I 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.360 don't make a killer. It just means that they've got 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:26.920 an interest in this interesting art that they're willing to 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.440 put on their body and display to the rest of 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:34.120 the world. But that doesn't make you a perpetrator and 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:38.800 a homicide. The jury also heard heart stirring testimony from 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.960 Rita Newcombe, Angela Wagner's mother, and Jake and George's grandmother. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.520 Nwcombe declined video or audio recording of her testimony. Petite 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.480 with Dirdy blondeire Nucomb is a devout Christian who wrestled 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.880 with their daughter's actions after the murders Stephanie and Jeff. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.840 Rita wasn't heres when she testified about how she initially 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.760 lied to investigators to protect her daughter and quote her 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.360 grand babies, but then she soon came clean because of 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:12.000 her faith in God, and of course once the Wagners 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.040 became actual suspects, Steph. What I find interesting is that 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.000 Rita Newcome falsely told agents with the Ohio BCI that 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.920 she had signed these custody documents involving George and Jake's 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.200 children as a notary public. Rita basically testified in court 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.760 saying that Angela said to her, look, Mom, if you 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.920 don't admit this, they're going to really hurt me and 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.040 possibly even kill me. And that's a brutal spot to 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.640 be And can you imagine your daughter is basically begging 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.440 you not to turn her in, and then you come 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.120 to find out that she's essentially bringing you into a 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:49.480 murder investigation and leaving you under the bus. She continues 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.760 to describe the worst days of her life were the 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:56.640 eight days that she spent behind bars again. Forensic expert 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:01.360 Joseph Scott Morgan. I'll see that Rita being in the 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:07.320 midst of this just titanic storm. There's part of me, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.840 if you can, if anybody can feel kind of sorry 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.680 for anybody that's been associated with these horrible deeds. I 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.640 think that you know, I would list probably more toward 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.560 Rita newcome in this. Uh you know, she's involved in 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.160 this with her child. She's born witness to everything Angela 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.720 has ever been involved in. I think that most parents 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:30.920 will try to do anything that they possibly could in 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.400 order to help their child. I think early on that 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.400 people assume that this was a broad ranging conspiracy, and 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.560 immediately they associated Rita with it, that she was part 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.920 and parcel. They almost had her sitting at the kitchen table. Now, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.560 I just I just don't see that that that was 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.400 the case, you know, relative to to to these homicides. 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.960 And if we are to believe that that Angela is 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.960 the controlling person, you know, this man nigulative, you know, 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.040 kind of Sungali like character that you know has swayed 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.520 over the entire family and how things are going to 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.720 be done. If Angela is that person, did Rita perceive 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.360 her daughter has maybe potentially, you know, going to do 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.760 harm to her, or she would have money to warm her. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:23.760 And that's what makes that all the more homs. We're 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:30.040 going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:34.200 I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.280 Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.320 of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:47.640 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.359 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.120 He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:01.320 went unconscious. Bob could lie about thing, but only takes 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.520 the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.760 us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.480 to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.600 to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.560 him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.480 him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.800 I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.160 listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.119 or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.600 host of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:38.480 the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else, like our 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:43.359 ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focused 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.880 college ranking system. Why not just throw in a few 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.720 extra zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.240 learning that I kind of have to start over. The 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.240 tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.000 to some of the students that I do quick, and 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.120 that's what I teach them not to do. We're making 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.480 more revisionist history for you this year than ever from 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:11.960 places all across this great country emergency rooms, huge theaters, 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.040 small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.439 your thumb up like us, You're gonna pull the trigger 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.200 with this finger here. Okay, listen to Revisionist History on 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.560 the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:32.239 your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is going on 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.960 in here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.959 situation like this. I just thought it was just a 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.480 really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.840 was stunned and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.119 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.520 find yourself at that line. Thou art ricin and somebody 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.560 needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:00.200 like this is evil and the only person who can 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.440 sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:09.080 sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.520 If you are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.720 week out disgrace to our cut. Evil play should be 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:21.040 prosecute when power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.840 I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:34.960 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.320 Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.280 The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my Awart winning 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.600 first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.919 touch incredible guests about important things people like me have 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.760 been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.240 What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing as evil. 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.200 They will take things away and I can only hope 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.000 that Dobbs, is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, you 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.520 and I both know what it took to just get 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:05.760 through the day in New York City and get home 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.760 in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.560 and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:16.119 that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.640 The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.080 that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.760 us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.760 Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.959 you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.600 Rita Newcomb spoke extensively about her family's legacy of abuse 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:51.760 again Long Crimes Ancheanette Levy. Rita Newcomb is somebody we've 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.320 known about since the arrests were made in this case 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.120 back in November of twenty eighteen, and Rita is Angela 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:03.320 Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela told her that you know, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.120 if you don't, if you don't do this, they're going 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.520 to hurt me. We never got a clarification on who 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.480 they are that she said they will hurt me if 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.240 you don't say you did this. She also talked about 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.480 how you know, she had been married to Angela's father 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.240 of course at Carter, and he was abusive to both 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:26.600 of them, I mean physically abusive, and Angela had actually 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.159 gone into the Air Force at eighteen she wanted to 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.640 get away from you know, or bad and this whole thing. 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.240 And we found out that Angela left the Air Force 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:40.359 early allegedly because she was sexually assaulted, and it was 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:45.520 never investigated or reported. According to Rita, I find it 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.480 interesting given the fact that the motive for these murders 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.879 allegedly was protecting me and the spear that the little 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.520 girl might be molested. So it makes you wonder, is 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:02.480 that were this concern about sexual assault or sexual abuse 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.760 where it originated was with Angela's time in the Air Force. 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.400 So I guess we'll find out as the case progresses. 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.120 But she talked about not liking Billy Wagner. I would 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.399 think that seeing a woman who's seventy plus sitting up 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:23.280 there crying and reliving this and admitting to lying for 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.200 her daughter, but I would think the jury would take 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.639 that very seriously. But again, this is George's trial, not 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:33.960 Angela's trial, but still it paints a picture. You know, 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.560 it seems like Angelo Wagner has just been painted as 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:42.880 the ultimate villain in this story, in this trial. I mean, 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.760 nobody says anything nice about Angela Wagner in this case. 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:53.000 The jury also heard from two PCI forensics experts, one 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.520 with special Agent Brian White, who searched the Wagner's property 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.119 in June of twenty seventeen. He's now a lieutenant the 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:05.160 Madison County Sheriff's Office in Central Ohio. Special Prosecutor Andrew 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:09.840 Wilson questioned him on the stand, and you boltibly swear 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:11.840 a refirm that the testimony you are about to give 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:13.919 the true of the whole treence and nothing but the 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:18.520 true w Thank you, honor, and a nice loud voice. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.720 Can you introduce yourself again to the journey. My name 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.200 is Brian White. I'm a lieutenant with the Madison County 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:29.160 sheerse Office. When you were out there searching that area 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:35.280 of two sixty Peterson Road June fourteenth, June fifteen, twenty seventeen, 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:40.360 did ultimately you find pieces of evidence that you collected 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.280 and took into customer? Yes, we did and June fourteenth, 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:48.200 June fifteenth, during that search, did you also have Matt 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.240 White out there with you, who was from the lab. Yes, 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.920 we did and explained what his role was or what 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.880 he did that day. Whenever if we would find something 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.679 that was firearms related through shifting, whether it be a 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:06.000 casing or bullet or whatever, Matt would take a look 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.480 at it and then he would put it in. He 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:14.719 would basically separate them out and two different characteristics or 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:20.359 calibers or whatever. Okay, I'm gonna hand you what's been 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:23.320 marked for dentification purposes. I stick to give it ss live. 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:25.880 Can you tell us what's in? I stick to give 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:32.400 it ss live. That's uh fired cartridge case two two 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:36.720 three caliber collected June fourteenth and fifteen, twenty seventeen, two 0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.480 sixty Peterson Road. And it's got my name on it, 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:46.440 my initials. And again, is there a two two three 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:53.159 firearm listed on A two? Yes, there's the actors to 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:57.200 sixty Peterson Road property, which was owned by Jake. It's 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:00.560 thirteen miles from where the roads were executed. It was 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.880 at this location that White recovered twenty two caliber shell 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.439 casings that matched the ones found at the crime scene. 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:10.800 The Wagners were in Alaska at this time. On the 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:15.399 Peterson Road property, a second barn was mid construction, possibly 0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:20.080 the bc I suspected to cover up evidence again and Jeanette. 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.800 In June to twenty seventeen, BCI, this was after the 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:29.200 Wagners had moved to Alaska, went back to the Peterson 0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:32.080 Road property where the Wagners had lived they had sold 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.679 it in May of twenty seventeen, a month prior, and 0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:40.640 Brian White, it was like the lead crime scene agent 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:44.400 on this case, and he said that they went back 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.080 there with ground penetrating radar just looking to see if 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:50.280 there was anything buried underneath their under the ground of 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:53.120 evidentiary value. I mean, at this point in time, they 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:56.600 were still looking for murder weapons. The lead BCI agent, 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.280 Ryan Scheier, said there was a new barn that was 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:03.520