WEBVTT - I Want Candace... More with Candace Bushnell... 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:04.880 Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:12.520 you a Charlotte? You guys, it's exciting. On the podcast 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.360 today we have none other than Candace Bushdell. 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:18.320 Thank you for being with us. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.759 Oh, we have so many questions for you. I mean, 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.840 this is the original Carrie Bradshaw, herself, her alter ego 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.040 that she created many many years ago. We're going to 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.199 hear all about it. I want to take you back 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.760 because honestly, there are things that I don't even know, 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.280 because in the beginning of the show I was just 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.599 trying to like get through it, you know what I mean, 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.639 like figure out what was going on. We were filming 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:43.440 like crazy. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:44.560 It was a lot. 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.560 I didn't ask you questions that I'm like, why why 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.919 didn't we take Candace out to lunch and ask her 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.519 a bunch of questions? But it was too hectic, right, 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.080 So like for me, I have questions about how did 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.160 you come to write the column for The Observer in 0:00:59.200 --> 0:00:59.920 the first place. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.440 Well, you know, it's so interesting because I'm doing this 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.560 one woman show called True Tales of Sex, Success and 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.400 Sex and the City, which I've done. I actually just 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:17.120 got back from doing it in Prague. The London Palladium, Wow, 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.480 Budapest and Zurich, and then I'm going to go to Copenhagen. Great. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.039 I'm going to end up at Sony Hall in New 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.000 York City on May sixteen, so great. I want people 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.600 to buy tickets. But it's so in this show it 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.679 really answers all of those questions. So it's really the 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:39.000 origin story of Sex and the City. How I ended 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.480 up writing it, how hard I worked to get there, 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.520 why I invented Carrie Bradshaw, and what happened to me afterward. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.000 And I was really doing, you know, with the New 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:50.800 York Observer. 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.240 I was writing about women and. 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:02.360 Relationships, sex and money, power and status in New York 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.760 City all through the eighties for women's magazines, Got It. 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:14.680 And in fact I was writing about my my Samantha. Yeah, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.640 but she had different names, of course, so in like 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.960 nineteen eighty five, I think her name was Julie, and 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.760 then she might have been Susan, and then she ended 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.320 up being Samantha. But I kept changing her name. And 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.160 she was one of those women who she knew everything 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:35.960 about men somehow, she just knew everything, okay. And then 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.839 I was writing for the New York Observer, and they 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.000 asked me if I wanted to have my own column, 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.720 so obviously I said yes, And it was Sex and 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.200 the City. It had one foot in sex, one foot 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.239 in society, and it was really pretty much the same 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.240 as what I'd been writing in the eighties. It was 0:02:55.280 --> 0:03:00.400 about women and you know, dating and mating ritual in 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:07.040 New York City, which are very heightened because everybody's everybody 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.560 who comes here is really ambitious and they really want 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.239 to make it, and so it adds another layer. So 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.800 all the alphas, yes, exactly, all the alphas. 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:17.079 And but the. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.600 Difference was that it was in a publication that a 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.760 lot of men read. So I think the audience for 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.519 the New York Observer was like sixty five or seventy 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.040 percent men. So that made people feel like, oh, it's 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.240 much more important because it's in a publication that, wow, 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.080 men are reading, and you know, as we all know, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.840 if men are doing something, it's very important. Oh my 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.760 god doing it, Oh my gosh, how crazy. 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.080 So this was a big deal for you, Yes, and 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:51.680 in general. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.440 In fact, when I got the column, I remember that 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:01.800 moment and it was probably maybe it was the end 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.280 of October of nineteen ninety four, and it was a 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.800 warm day and I like ran up Park Avenue thinking, oh, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.640 this is my big break, this is my big break 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.560 because I've been writing for fifteen years since I was nineteen. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.719 Oh my gosh, and and I just felt like this 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:23.680 was going to be my big break. And it was 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.840 and it was, and I remember all the door men 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.280 were like, oh, good afternoon. This you know, things were 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.600 somehow radiating off of this happy energy. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.480 So now when there's a hard question, is there any 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.400 part of you at that point who could have foreseen 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:43.480 what was to come? 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:49.320 Absolutely one hundred percent. No. No, I mean I don't 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:54.280 think anybody could have ye foreseen it? 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:55.240 Right? No, me neither. 0:04:55.320 --> 0:05:00.839 And you know what I do know is people started 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.720 reading the column right away because it was you know, 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.719 it was about people who everybody knew. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.800 Okay, so that was another question that yes, got it. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.400 So they wrote something and like and you would change 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.400 the names, Yes, I would change the names. But I 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.600 went out pretty much every single night with my notebook, 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.680 and I had Wow, these notebooks they were this big 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.960 and they were little spiral notebooks and they could back 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:31.359 then they could fit in your handbag. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:31.880 Wow. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.160 So you take notes, actual notes. 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:41.359 I took actual notes and if if it was like 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.960 kind of uncomfortable, I would run to the bathroom and 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:44.680 take notes. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:45.640 Wow. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.679 So I would be in the bathroom like writing things 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:54.320 down like you know, somebody said this, somebody said that, yeah, 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.159 And then I would get back the next day and 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.680 I would look at all of the notes and and 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.680 construct a story out of it. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.920 You know, the people couldn't know they'd read it, and 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:08.520 they yes, they know we're guests. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.320 Well they would know or they would guess. And you know, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.560 the reality is sometimes people came up to me and 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.000 asked me to write about them. Wow, Like the story 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.000 about the twenty something twenty. 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.720 Something guys guys, Oh, okay, that was all right. So 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.520 that was one thing. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.680 But then and those were two real guys wow, that 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.919 I was hanging out with, okay, and I was like, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.520 this is like, you know, the best material. And there 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.480 was also one about the twenty five year old girls 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.359 when they go to the Hampton's. Yeah, the Hampton's was 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.840 really yes, Staten Island, which was because. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.080 We couldn't for the Hampton's. Yeah exactly said when I 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.520 pretend Charlotte pretends to be twenty seven or whatever, and 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:53.800 then they. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.200 Get crabs exactly. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.680 The crazy storyline, yes, that was real, Yes, but not 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:00.680 the part about Charlotte heading the crabs. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.120 Okay, but that. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.920 I mean, look, that's the kind of thing that happens. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.880 I had this whatever, crazy roommate, and she went she 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.560 was always having sex and and she got crabs. 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.080 And we shared an apartment and guess what did you 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.920 get crabs from my room? I did. Oh, that's bad. 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:22.200 They go on the towel. 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.400 Oh, nobody tells you that, no, no one does. Listen, people, 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:32.360 this is some information that we're going to end up. 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.240 It will be definitely interesting to people. But you know 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.800 what Canna says, Okay, because we're educating people exactly right, 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.840 and this was a long time ago. Exactly still exists. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.680 But I'm sure they do the wait, go back to 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.600 the real people part because I do get asked this 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.600 a lot, like who was Charlotte? And in my mind 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.520 Charlotte was an amalgam of different people, but I don't 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:55.120 know if that's right. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:08:01.200 Okay, So Charlotte is the one character who I would 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.680 say Darren really created that character, got it, That's what 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:05.000 I thought. 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.840 So you know, all of the other characters, there was 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:08.600 a Miranda. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.800 There was a Samantha that specific or different people that 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.440 you know, they were pretty specific. Samantha was pretty specifically 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:22.920 one friend of mine again who knew everything about men, 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.240 and I'm actually still friends with her. 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:26.720 Oh great. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:31.600 And then the character of Miranda was like just this 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:38.520 really ballsy, smart girl who she wasn't a lawyer, but 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.560 she was somehow like in tech before anybody was in tech, 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.640 so she was like really up on things, and she 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:51.360 was just so she always used to say to men, listen, buddy, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.080 let me explain something to you. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.439 Cute and funny. She just didn't put up with any 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.800 nice stuff, got it. Did they know that they were 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:06.920 the people that the characters were based on, Yes, okay 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.319 kind of woes. Did they come to the parties and stuff? 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.240 One of them might have maybe the Miranda character, Yes, 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:17.360 she probably did. 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.559 Okay, she probably did. I mean, I don't know Cynthia 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.760 knew that. I don't know that we knew this. I 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:23.560 don't think we did. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.600 And she had short, dark hair, okay, interesting, and she 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:33.600 was really she was just like super smart, just go 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:40.120 get her woman. And then my friend Samantha, of course, 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.839 you know the character's not really like her, anymore at all. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.880 But she was really beautiful and and she just knew, 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.959 you know, everything about men, and men were crazy about her. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:58.200 So I always went to her for advice, like, you know, 0:09:58.240 --> 0:09:59.320 what do you think about this? 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.600 The guys said this, what does it mean? Oh? Yeah, 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:03.760 he was really that. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:04.720 That's helpful. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.920 You know that friend that you have who knows everything. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.440 Yeah. Now let's back up to Darren a little bit. Darren. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:13.559 How'd you meet Darren? 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:14.400 Well? 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.600 I met Darren because I wrote a story about him 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:22.080 for Vogue. Oh, because I actually had a column in Vogue. Okay, 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.800 oh my god, like Carrie. I don't know if she 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.600 ended up having a column, but right, she did. So 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.640 I had a column in Vogue, and I also wrote 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:38.400 stories for them. I did profiles, got it And in fact, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.160 I just came across one that I did of Hugh Grant, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.800 which wow, I was reading it, I was like, God, 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.079 this is such a great story. But he was very entertaining. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.320 He is very entertaining, Yes he is, he was. He 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:57.840 was really interesting. He's very and Darren had come to 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.680 New York to do Central Park West right right, right, 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:06.600 So Vogue wanted me to do a story on him, 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:12.240 and I think we met in New York and then 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.760 I went to LA and also he met the real 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:21.679 mister Big Ron Galotti. So then the three of us 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:22.640 were friends. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.960 Oh got it. And Ron and Darren loved each other. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:29.199 That's friend. 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.200 We used to hang out and in fact we rented 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:34.800 a house in Aspen one year. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:35.559 Wow. 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:40.680 So and then I took Darren for the first time 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.880 to the Hamptons. And this was probably in nineteen ninety five, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:47.920 and I had just. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:51.199 I had just. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.040 Done a book deal for the columns Sex and the 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.320 City to become a book. So that happened after I 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:04.200 feel like I been writing it for maybe three or 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.720 four months and a publisher said I want to make 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:08.640 this into a book. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:09.559 Uh huh. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.439 So I told Darren and he said, oh, I want 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:13.040 to option it. 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.880 Got it? So that all have been kind of bam 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:16.800 bam bam. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:21.199 Yes, But then I don't think he actually did option 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:27.200 it until kind of a year later, and HBO wanted 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.240 to buy it, and I had meetings with HBO and 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.559 ABC wanted to buy it as well. That would have 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.800 been different, and yes, that would have been really different. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:39.199 And some movie companies. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:39.959 Oh wow. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:41.679 I didn't take any of it serious. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:42.760 Didn't no. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.440 I was like really, yes. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.960 I was very like, oh, I only want to write 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.079 novels and when the police are prize. 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.480 Oh my god, adorable. So how did Darren convince you? 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:59.679 Well, he we had the same agency, ICM right, and 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.360 and HBO made an offer. And then my agent was like, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.400 you know, when I'm just gonna ask Darren again if 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.080 you know he was serious about wanting to buy it, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.640 and he said yes, So I think he offered like 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.719 a tiny bit more, you know, HBO, which at the 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.160 time seemed like, oh my god, a lot of money, right, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.640 And and also I just loved Darren's sense of humor. 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.040 And when I was interviewing him, we went to the 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.720 set of Maybe it was Melrose Place? 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.520 Was it in Chatsworth? You had to like drive far 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.800 from We had to drive far again desert. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.559 It was in the desert, and one of the characters 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.240 was like buried underground and I. 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:47.480 Oh, we did some craziness. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.520 Was I don't know what that was, but ye, crazy, yes, 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.480 And and he was like laughing and he was like, 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.000 is this the funniest thing you've ever seen? And I 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:00.800 was like yes, And I just thought, this man has 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.560 the best sense of humor. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.480 I agree, Yeah, yeah, and it hadn't really been used 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.880 in his other shows, yes, exactly. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:12.600 And and so I was just thrilled to be working 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.000 with him. And then of course HBO and ABC still 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:16.559 wanted it. 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.800 Oh wow, So with Darren, Yes. 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:25.000 Got it, which of course makes it even more attractive. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:25.280 Yeah. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.200 You know, having a showrunner like Darren is incredible. 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:29.960 Yeah. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:35.680 And and and he wanted to go with HBO because 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.960 he he wanted some freedom. Yeah, he'd done the CBS 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.720 show and and you know, I mean, I don't think 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.680 any of this is a secret. I think he's talked 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.720 about that. He wasn't he wasn't thrilled, so he wanted 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.200 and HBO was brand new really in terms of making 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.480 original content. So it was kind of like a freedom, 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:55.800 like a free playground. 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:56.240 Yes. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.360 And it was their second show after Arless, right and 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.240 wait on, don't forget dream On? Our listened dream On? 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.320 Why don't remember dream On? 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.440 Dream On was a strange show, Emil one who remembers it. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.080 It was a show with this guy, Brian ben Ben 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.760 I believe his name is. Do you remember this? And 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.240 there is nudity, There is female nudity every week. This 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.960 is partly why we were all so nervous our first 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.520 season about what is this and whose perspective is it 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.240 from and who is it four? 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.720 Well they did. They definitely pushed those boundaries. I mean 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.600 even more than because you know, Sex and the City 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.480 was published in a newspaper, right, so it was how 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.760 much details? Yeah, And also one of the things that 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:49.080 we decided was we don't want it to be about plumbing, like, 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:53.600 we don't want it to be about actual sex, because right, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.440 it's like, right, right, what are you going to say exactly? Yeah, 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.600 everybody knows. Yeah, I have sech for sure. 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:00.880 For sure. 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.040 So it was like all of the things that went 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.080 around sex. And then when it was on HBO, I 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:14.000 mean it could be quite specific. And also when I 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.440 was started rewatching it when it was on Netflix, Uh, 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.920 I was like, I forgot how much sex everybody. 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:23.040 Was having with you. 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.200 I'm with you, you know, I mean Charlotte was having 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.040 I know, so much sex. 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:28.480 Rude. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:33.720 Yes, the I'm busy really like thought, I know. 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.920 There's some certain things that I sometimes I'm like, I 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:49.400 need to go back and read the book because I 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:54.200 remember reading your book when Darren sent me this script. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:55.880 So I read the script first, and then I went 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.120 and read the book and then I was like, whoa, 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.520 the book is a lot, right, because it had just 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.960 much more maybe less specifics, but more storylines. Not really 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:06.480 Charlotte so much, but. 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.800 It was it, you know, with the column and the book. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:16.400 Every week was a totally different column with different characters 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:17.679 and different people. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:19.879 So you know that. 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.040 And sometimes people read the book and they're like, it. 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:23.919 Doesn't make sense. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:28.879 It's like, okay, yeah, because it was a little different, 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.159 right right, right right. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.960 But it was a different time too. But like in 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.240 the beginning because remember, I don't know if you remember, 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.439 we did the whole we did the pilot that we 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.439 had to wait kind of a long time and my 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.840 mire right right, yes, Skip picked up, which was bizarre, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:43.800 but whatever. And then we got picked up. We did 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:49.480 the whole first season without airing, which was interesting. Oh yeah, 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.760 it hadn't aired. Now that's kind of normal with streaming, right, 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:54.639 but back in the way, very unusual. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.159 So but wait, I thought we shot the pilot in 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:58.600 nineteen ninety seven. 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.600 We did, and then we were waited until we got 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.720 picked up in nineteen ninety eight. Then we filmed really quick. 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:10.320 What I remember was that summer, and it's I think 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:11.960 it started filming in the spring. 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.200 Yep, we would always come in the cold. Yeah, you 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.760 have to pretend like it wasn't. Yes, And we filmed 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:18.920 for like all of three months or something. We did 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.480 all of it really really fast. Yes, came on the 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.000 air fast. Yes, but we had no one had seen 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:29.800 a thing, and we were just like like, are we funny? 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:30.920 Are we sexy? Well? 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:32.600 What are we doing? 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.160 Right? But when I started watching back it, I always 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.399 felt like the first season was kind of a mess 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.480 in terms of I'd come from. You know, spelling was 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.440 like a very much not a factory in a bad way, 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.960 but like it was a very set medium, right, very 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:53.280 structured medium that Darren definitely changed and juiced up and 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.920 made younger and exciting. But like, there's a scene, there's 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.800 a storyline in the Modelizer episode. Yes, was that a 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.679 real storyline that was in your column? I mean this 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.119 was something we would call the police now you know 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.000 what I mean? Do you remember this guy is filming 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:11.520 the models from the magazine? 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:12.240 Now that's real? 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.639 Now, okay, so get to so you know about this? 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.800 How how did this? I? 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.399 Well, first of all, like the Modelizer story is real, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.440 and in the first season, they took a they took 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.640 a lot of stuff. A lot of the stories from 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.520 the book, you know, they get changed around, and even 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.640 in the first actually the first two seasons, a lot 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:43.359 comes from the book, which I recognize because I know 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:48.600 kind of where everything came from. But you know, it 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:53.080 was just going out and doing research and getting people 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:58.439 to tell me stories. So people love to tell you 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.119 their story. I don't know if this happens to you 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.359 where people come up to you and they're like, yes, oh, 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.600 because of the show, let me tell you about this 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.120 thing that happened to me, And you're like, right, right, right. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.919 But like someone told you? Did someone tell you I 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.400 do this? Did the person himself who was filming these 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.000 models secretly tell you this? Or did you just hear 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:19.359 about it? 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:20.720 Probably got it. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.840 But also, filming people while you're having sex with them 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.920 is not a new thing. I know what it used 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.239 to be like without consent is bad, Yes, it is, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.480 it is bad. But I remember when I first came 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.320 to New York people were doing that in like nineteen 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:38.520 seventy eight. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.080 Yes, like with a big camquarder. 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:48.960 No, they had like hidden cameras, hidden cameras in their apartments. 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.920 I mean, look, these are really really rich men, which 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:58.600 we know they don't always follow I understand the law, right, 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.320 So so that. 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:07.800 Wasn't really a totally new thing. But yes, that was. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:09.000 There was. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:17.639 A guy who was filming his encounters with you know, 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:18.440 with models. 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.640 God, because the thing that's interesting when I look back 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.439 on it, I hadn't remembered that at all. There's so 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.200 much that I don't remember about the first season. And Carrie, 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.320 you know, she goes over there and he's like, you've 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.800 got to see my master work, my work of art, 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:32.960 and he gets all has all those old TVs. It's 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.520 very creative. And then the different models you know, show 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:38.040 up and he's having sex with them, and you know, 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.520 she likes a cigarette, like she's very unjudgmental, you know, 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.000 there's not judgment or rror. Well, it was a different 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.800 time also, I mean we you know, there are a 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:50.520 lot of things that. 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.560 You know, women just kind of sucked it up back then. 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.160 It's truely, not literally, but you know, yes, I mean, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:05.760 I mean it's and things have changed so much and 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:10.120