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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are

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Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? You guys, it's exciting. On the podcast

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Speaker 1: today we have none other than Candace Bushdell.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we have so many questions for you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the original Carrie Bradshaw, herself, her alter ego

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Speaker 1: that she created many many years ago. We're going to

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Speaker 1: hear all about it. I want to take you back

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Speaker 1: because honestly, there are things that I don't even know,

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Speaker 1: because in the beginning of the show I was just

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Speaker 1: trying to like get through it, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: like figure out what was going on. We were filming

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Speaker 1: like crazy.

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Speaker 2: It was a lot.

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Speaker 1: I didn't ask you questions that I'm like, why why

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Speaker 1: didn't we take Candace out to lunch and ask her

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Speaker 1: a bunch of questions? But it was too hectic, right,

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Speaker 1: So like for me, I have questions about how did

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Speaker 1: you come to write the column for The Observer in

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Speaker 1: the first place.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's so interesting because I'm doing this

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Speaker 3: one woman show called True Tales of Sex, Success and

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Speaker 3: Sex and the City, which I've done. I actually just

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Speaker 3: got back from doing it in Prague. The London Palladium, Wow,

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Speaker 3: Budapest and Zurich, and then I'm going to go to Copenhagen. Great.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to end up at Sony Hall in New

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Speaker 3: York City on May sixteen, so great. I want people

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Speaker 3: to buy tickets. But it's so in this show it

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Speaker 3: really answers all of those questions. So it's really the

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Speaker 3: origin story of Sex and the City. How I ended

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Speaker 3: up writing it, how hard I worked to get there,

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Speaker 3: why I invented Carrie Bradshaw, and what happened to me afterward.

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Speaker 3: And I was really doing, you know, with the New

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Speaker 3: York Observer.

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Speaker 2: I was writing about women and.

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Speaker 3: Relationships, sex and money, power and status in New York

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Speaker 3: City all through the eighties for women's magazines, Got It.

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Speaker 3: And in fact I was writing about my my Samantha. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but she had different names, of course, so in like

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five, I think her name was Julie, and

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Speaker 3: then she might have been Susan, and then she ended

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Speaker 3: up being Samantha. But I kept changing her name. And

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Speaker 3: she was one of those women who she knew everything

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Speaker 3: about men somehow, she just knew everything, okay. And then

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Speaker 3: I was writing for the New York Observer, and they

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Speaker 3: asked me if I wanted to have my own column,

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Speaker 3: so obviously I said yes, And it was Sex and

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Speaker 3: the City. It had one foot in sex, one foot

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Speaker 3: in society, and it was really pretty much the same

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Speaker 3: as what I'd been writing in the eighties. It was

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Speaker 3: about women and you know, dating and mating ritual in

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Speaker 3: New York City, which are very heightened because everybody's everybody

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Speaker 3: who comes here is really ambitious and they really want

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Speaker 3: to make it, and so it adds another layer. So

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Speaker 3: all the alphas, yes, exactly, all the alphas.

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Speaker 2: And but the.

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Speaker 3: Difference was that it was in a publication that a

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Speaker 3: lot of men read. So I think the audience for

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Speaker 3: the New York Observer was like sixty five or seventy

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Speaker 3: percent men. So that made people feel like, oh, it's

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Speaker 3: much more important because it's in a publication that, wow,

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Speaker 3: men are reading, and you know, as we all know,

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Speaker 3: if men are doing something, it's very important. Oh my

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Speaker 3: god doing it, Oh my gosh, how crazy.

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Speaker 1: So this was a big deal for you, Yes, and

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Speaker 1: in general.

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Speaker 3: In fact, when I got the column, I remember that

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Speaker 3: moment and it was probably maybe it was the end

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Speaker 3: of October of nineteen ninety four, and it was a

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Speaker 3: warm day and I like ran up Park Avenue thinking, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is my big break, this is my big break

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Speaker 3: because I've been writing for fifteen years since I was nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and and I just felt like this

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Speaker 3: was going to be my big break. And it was

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Speaker 3: and it was, and I remember all the door men

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Speaker 3: were like, oh, good afternoon. This you know, things were

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Speaker 3: somehow radiating off of this happy energy.

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Speaker 1: So now when there's a hard question, is there any

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Speaker 1: part of you at that point who could have foreseen

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Speaker 1: what was to come?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely one hundred percent. No. No, I mean I don't

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Speaker 3: think anybody could have ye foreseen it?

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Speaker 1: Right? No, me neither.

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Speaker 3: And you know what I do know is people started

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Speaker 3: reading the column right away because it was you know,

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Speaker 3: it was about people who everybody knew.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that was another question that yes, got it.

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Speaker 1: So they wrote something and like and you would change

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Speaker 1: the names, Yes, I would change the names. But I

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Speaker 1: went out pretty much every single night with my notebook,

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Speaker 1: and I had Wow, these notebooks they were this big

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Speaker 1: and they were little spiral notebooks and they could back

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Speaker 1: then they could fit in your handbag.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So you take notes, actual notes.

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Speaker 3: I took actual notes and if if it was like

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Speaker 3: kind of uncomfortable, I would run to the bathroom and

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Speaker 3: take notes.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So I would be in the bathroom like writing things

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Speaker 3: down like you know, somebody said this, somebody said that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And then I would get back the next day and

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Speaker 3: I would look at all of the notes and and

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Speaker 3: construct a story out of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, the people couldn't know they'd read it, and

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Speaker 1: they yes, they know we're guests.

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Speaker 3: Well they would know or they would guess. And you know,

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Speaker 3: the reality is sometimes people came up to me and

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Speaker 3: asked me to write about them. Wow, Like the story

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Speaker 3: about the twenty something twenty.

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Speaker 2: Something guys guys, Oh, okay, that was all right. So

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Speaker 2: that was one thing.

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Speaker 3: But then and those were two real guys wow, that

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Speaker 3: I was hanging out with, okay, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: this is like, you know, the best material. And there

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Speaker 3: was also one about the twenty five year old girls

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Speaker 3: when they go to the Hampton's. Yeah, the Hampton's was

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Speaker 3: really yes, Staten Island, which was because.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't for the Hampton's. Yeah exactly said when I

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Speaker 1: pretend Charlotte pretends to be twenty seven or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: then they.

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Speaker 2: Get crabs exactly.

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Speaker 1: The crazy storyline, yes, that was real, Yes, but not

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Speaker 1: the part about Charlotte heading the crabs.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, that's the kind of thing that happens.

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Speaker 3: I had this whatever, crazy roommate, and she went she

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Speaker 3: was always having sex and and she got crabs.

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Speaker 2: And we shared an apartment and guess what did you

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Speaker 2: get crabs from my room? I did. Oh, that's bad.

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Speaker 2: They go on the towel.

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Speaker 1: Oh, nobody tells you that, no, no one does. Listen, people,

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Speaker 1: this is some information that we're going to end up.

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Speaker 1: It will be definitely interesting to people. But you know

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Speaker 1: what Canna says, Okay, because we're educating people exactly right,

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Speaker 1: and this was a long time ago. Exactly still exists.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure they do the wait, go back to

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Speaker 1: the real people part because I do get asked this

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Speaker 1: a lot, like who was Charlotte? And in my mind

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Speaker 1: Charlotte was an amalgam of different people, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's right.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So Charlotte is the one character who I would

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Speaker 3: say Darren really created that character, got it, That's what

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Speaker 3: I thought.

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Speaker 2: So you know, all of the other characters, there was

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Speaker 2: a Miranda.

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Speaker 3: There was a Samantha that specific or different people that

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Speaker 3: you know, they were pretty specific. Samantha was pretty specifically

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Speaker 3: one friend of mine again who knew everything about men,

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Speaker 3: and I'm actually still friends with her.

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Speaker 1: Oh great.

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Speaker 3: And then the character of Miranda was like just this

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Speaker 3: really ballsy, smart girl who she wasn't a lawyer, but

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Speaker 3: she was somehow like in tech before anybody was in tech,

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Speaker 3: so she was like really up on things, and she

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Speaker 3: was just so she always used to say to men, listen, buddy,

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Speaker 3: let me explain something to you.

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Speaker 1: Cute and funny. She just didn't put up with any

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Speaker 1: nice stuff, got it. Did they know that they were

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Speaker 1: the people that the characters were based on, Yes, okay

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Speaker 1: kind of woes. Did they come to the parties and stuff?

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Speaker 3: One of them might have maybe the Miranda character, Yes,

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Speaker 3: she probably did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, she probably did. I mean, I don't know Cynthia

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Speaker 1: knew that. I don't know that we knew this. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we did.

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Speaker 3: And she had short, dark hair, okay, interesting, and she

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Speaker 3: was really she was just like super smart, just go

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Speaker 3: get her woman. And then my friend Samantha, of course,

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Speaker 3: you know the character's not really like her, anymore at all.

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Speaker 3: But she was really beautiful and and she just knew,

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Speaker 3: you know, everything about men, and men were crazy about her.

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Speaker 3: So I always went to her for advice, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: what do you think about this?

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Speaker 2: The guys said this, what does it mean? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was really that.

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Speaker 1: That's helpful.

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Speaker 2: You know that friend that you have who knows everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now let's back up to Darren a little bit. Darren.

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Speaker 1: How'd you meet Darren?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: I met Darren because I wrote a story about him

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Speaker 3: for Vogue. Oh, because I actually had a column in Vogue. Okay,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, like Carrie. I don't know if she

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Speaker 3: ended up having a column, but right, she did. So

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Speaker 3: I had a column in Vogue, and I also wrote

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Speaker 3: stories for them. I did profiles, got it And in fact,

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Speaker 3: I just came across one that I did of Hugh Grant,

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Speaker 3: which wow, I was reading it, I was like, God,

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Speaker 3: this is such a great story. But he was very entertaining.

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Speaker 3: He is very entertaining, Yes he is, he was. He

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Speaker 3: was really interesting. He's very and Darren had come to

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Speaker 3: New York to do Central Park West right right, right,

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Speaker 3: So Vogue wanted me to do a story on him,

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Speaker 3: and I think we met in New York and then

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Speaker 3: I went to LA and also he met the real

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Speaker 3: mister Big Ron Galotti. So then the three of us

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Speaker 3: were friends.

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Speaker 2: Oh got it. And Ron and Darren loved each other.

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Speaker 1: That's friend.

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Speaker 3: We used to hang out and in fact we rented

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Speaker 3: a house in Aspen one year.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So and then I took Darren for the first time

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Speaker 3: to the Hamptons. And this was probably in nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 3: and I had just.

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Speaker 2: I had just.

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Speaker 3: Done a book deal for the columns Sex and the

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Speaker 3: City to become a book. So that happened after I

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Speaker 3: feel like I been writing it for maybe three or

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Speaker 3: four months and a publisher said I want to make

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Speaker 3: this into a book.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: So I told Darren and he said, oh, I want

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Speaker 3: to option it.

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Speaker 1: Got it? So that all have been kind of bam

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Speaker 1: bam bam.

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Speaker 3: Yes, But then I don't think he actually did option

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Speaker 3: it until kind of a year later, and HBO wanted

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Speaker 3: to buy it, and I had meetings with HBO and

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Speaker 3: ABC wanted to buy it as well. That would have

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Speaker 3: been different, and yes, that would have been really different.

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Speaker 2: And some movie companies.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: I didn't take any of it serious.

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Speaker 1: Didn't no.

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Speaker 2: I was like really, yes.

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Speaker 3: I was very like, oh, I only want to write

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Speaker 3: novels and when the police are prize.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, adorable. So how did Darren convince you?

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Speaker 3: Well, he we had the same agency, ICM right, and

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Speaker 3: and HBO made an offer. And then my agent was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, when I'm just gonna ask Darren again if

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Speaker 3: you know he was serious about wanting to buy it,

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Speaker 3: and he said yes, So I think he offered like

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Speaker 3: a tiny bit more, you know, HBO, which at the

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Speaker 3: time seemed like, oh my god, a lot of money, right,

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Speaker 3: And and also I just loved Darren's sense of humor.

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Speaker 3: And when I was interviewing him, we went to the

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Speaker 3: set of Maybe it was Melrose Place?

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Speaker 1: Was it in Chatsworth? You had to like drive far

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Speaker 1: from We had to drive far again desert.

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Speaker 3: It was in the desert, and one of the characters

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Speaker 3: was like buried underground and I.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we did some craziness.

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Speaker 3: Was I don't know what that was, but ye, crazy, yes,

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Speaker 3: And and he was like laughing and he was like,

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Speaker 3: is this the funniest thing you've ever seen? And I

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Speaker 3: was like yes, And I just thought, this man has

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Speaker 3: the best sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, yeah, and it hadn't really been used

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Speaker 1: in his other shows, yes, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And and so I was just thrilled to be working

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Speaker 3: with him. And then of course HBO and ABC still

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Speaker 3: wanted it.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, So with Darren, Yes.

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Speaker 3: Got it, which of course makes it even more attractive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, having a showrunner like Darren is incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And and and he wanted to go with HBO because

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Speaker 3: he he wanted some freedom. Yeah, he'd done the CBS

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Speaker 3: show and and you know, I mean, I don't think

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Speaker 3: any of this is a secret. I think he's talked

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Speaker 3: about that. He wasn't he wasn't thrilled, so he wanted

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Speaker 3: and HBO was brand new really in terms of making

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Speaker 3: original content. So it was kind of like a freedom,

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Speaker 3: like a free playground.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And it was their second show after Arless, right and

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Speaker 1: wait on, don't forget dream On? Our listened dream On?

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Speaker 2: Why don't remember dream On?

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Speaker 1: Dream On was a strange show, Emil one who remembers it.

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Speaker 1: It was a show with this guy, Brian ben Ben

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Speaker 1: I believe his name is. Do you remember this? And

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Speaker 1: there is nudity, There is female nudity every week. This

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Speaker 1: is partly why we were all so nervous our first

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Speaker 1: season about what is this and whose perspective is it

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Speaker 1: from and who is it four?

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Speaker 3: Well they did. They definitely pushed those boundaries. I mean

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Speaker 3: even more than because you know, Sex and the City

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Speaker 3: was published in a newspaper, right, so it was how

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Speaker 3: much details? Yeah, And also one of the things that

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Speaker 3: we decided was we don't want it to be about plumbing, like,

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Speaker 3: we don't want it to be about actual sex, because right,

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Speaker 3: it's like, right, right, what are you going to say exactly? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: everybody knows. Yeah, I have sech for sure.

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Speaker 1: For sure.

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Speaker 3: So it was like all of the things that went

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Speaker 3: around sex. And then when it was on HBO, I

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Speaker 3: mean it could be quite specific. And also when I

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Speaker 3: was started rewatching it when it was on Netflix, Uh,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I forgot how much sex everybody.

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Speaker 1: Was having with you.

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Speaker 3: I'm with you, you know, I mean Charlotte was having

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Speaker 3: I know, so much sex.

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Speaker 1: Rude.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the I'm busy really like thought, I know.

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Speaker 1: There's some certain things that I sometimes I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: need to go back and read the book because I

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Speaker 1: remember reading your book when Darren sent me this script.

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Speaker 1: So I read the script first, and then I went

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Speaker 1: and read the book and then I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: the book is a lot, right, because it had just

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Speaker 1: much more maybe less specifics, but more storylines. Not really

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Speaker 1: Charlotte so much, but.

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Speaker 3: It was it, you know, with the column and the book.

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Speaker 3: Every week was a totally different column with different characters

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Speaker 3: and different people.

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Speaker 2: So you know that.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes people read the book and they're like, it.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 3: It's like, okay, yeah, because it was a little different,

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Speaker 3: right right, right right.

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Speaker 1: But it was a different time too. But like in

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Speaker 1: the beginning because remember, I don't know if you remember,

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Speaker 1: we did the whole we did the pilot that we

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Speaker 1: had to wait kind of a long time and my

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Speaker 1: mire right right, yes, Skip picked up, which was bizarre,

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Speaker 1: but whatever. And then we got picked up. We did

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Speaker 1: the whole first season without airing, which was interesting. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it hadn't aired. Now that's kind of normal with streaming, right,

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Speaker 1: but back in the way, very unusual.

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Speaker 3: So but wait, I thought we shot the pilot in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 1: We did, and then we were waited until we got

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Speaker 1: picked up in nineteen ninety eight. Then we filmed really quick.

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Speaker 3: What I remember was that summer, and it's I think

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Speaker 3: it started filming in the spring.

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Speaker 1: Yep, we would always come in the cold. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: have to pretend like it wasn't. Yes, And we filmed

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Speaker 1: for like all of three months or something. We did

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Speaker 1: all of it really really fast. Yes, came on the

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Speaker 1: air fast. Yes, but we had no one had seen

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Speaker 1: a thing, and we were just like like, are we funny?

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Speaker 1: Are we sexy? Well?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing?

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Speaker 1: Right? But when I started watching back it, I always

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Speaker 1: felt like the first season was kind of a mess

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Speaker 1: in terms of I'd come from. You know, spelling was

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Speaker 1: like a very much not a factory in a bad way,

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Speaker 1: but like it was a very set medium, right, very

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Speaker 1: structured medium that Darren definitely changed and juiced up and

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Speaker 1: made younger and exciting. But like, there's a scene, there's

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Speaker 1: a storyline in the Modelizer episode. Yes, was that a

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Speaker 1: real storyline that was in your column? I mean this

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Speaker 1: was something we would call the police now you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Do you remember this guy is filming

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Speaker 1: the models from the magazine?

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Speaker 2: Now that's real?

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Speaker 1: Now, okay, so get to so you know about this?

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Speaker 2: How how did this? I?

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, like the Modelizer story is real,

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Speaker 3: and in the first season, they took a they took

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Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. A lot of the stories from

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Speaker 3: the book, you know, they get changed around, and even

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Speaker 3: in the first actually the first two seasons, a lot

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Speaker 3: comes from the book, which I recognize because I know

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Speaker 3: kind of where everything came from. But you know, it

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Speaker 3: was just going out and doing research and getting people

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Speaker 3: to tell me stories. So people love to tell you

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Speaker 3: their story. I don't know if this happens to you

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Speaker 3: where people come up to you and they're like, yes, oh,

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Speaker 3: because of the show, let me tell you about this

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Speaker 3: thing that happened to me, And you're like, right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: But like someone told you? Did someone tell you I

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Speaker 1: do this? Did the person himself who was filming these

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Speaker 1: models secretly tell you this? Or did you just hear

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Speaker 1: about it?

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Speaker 2: Probably got it.

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Speaker 3: But also, filming people while you're having sex with them

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Speaker 3: is not a new thing. I know what it used

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Speaker 3: to be like without consent is bad, Yes, it is,

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Speaker 3: it is bad. But I remember when I first came

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Speaker 3: to New York people were doing that in like nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: Yes, like with a big camquarder.

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Speaker 3: No, they had like hidden cameras, hidden cameras in their apartments.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, these are really really rich men, which

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Speaker 3: we know they don't always follow I understand the law, right,

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Speaker 3: So so that.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't really a totally new thing. But yes, that was.

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Speaker 2: There was.

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Speaker 3: A guy who was filming his encounters with you know,

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Speaker 3: with models.

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Speaker 1: God, because the thing that's interesting when I look back

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Speaker 1: on it, I hadn't remembered that at all. There's so

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Speaker 1: much that I don't remember about the first season. And Carrie,

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Speaker 1: you know, she goes over there and he's like, you've

390
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Speaker 1: got to see my master work, my work of art,

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Speaker 1: and he gets all has all those old TVs. It's

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Speaker 1: very creative. And then the different models you know, show

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Speaker 1: up and he's having sex with them, and you know,

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Speaker 1: she likes a cigarette, like she's very unjudgmental, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's not judgment or rror. Well, it was a different

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Speaker 1: time also, I mean we you know, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that.

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Speaker 3: You know, women just kind of sucked it up back then.

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Speaker 3: It's truely, not literally, but you know, yes, I mean,

400
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Speaker 3: I mean it's and things have changed so much and

401
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 3: it actually makes me really really happy. And it is

402
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 3: partly because of sex and the city. Because sex and

403
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: the city. You know, it's it has made women so

404
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: much more aware and emboldened. Is kind of emboldened and

405
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Speaker 3: given them a new way to look at their lives.

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Speaker 2: And you know, now.

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Speaker 3: When I, you know, I talk to young women, I'm

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Speaker 3: still covering dating for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: I love it, which is it's great. Is not so

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Speaker 1: great right now for anybody. For sure, dating is hard,

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Speaker 1: But I'm glad that you're covering it. Yes, that's helpful.

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00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: Yes, but.

413
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Speaker 3: You know, women have just they've just changed their attitude

414
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Speaker 3: so much and they know. Now I hear a lot

415
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Speaker 3: of women saying, you know, we don't even think heterosexual

416
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 3: relationship are so good for us anymore, which is something

417
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 3: that you would never have heard. In the mid nineties.

418
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Speaker 3: There was no woman who would ever say, you know,

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Speaker 3: I question the validity of the heterosexual relationship and being

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Speaker 3: secondary to a man.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of a given.

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Speaker 3: And now women really they don't accept that. I think

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Speaker 3: that's amazing. I think it's great, and I think it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So it's so great because this is one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons I wanted to do the podcast, is because

426
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: I feel like the storylines and the writing and the

427
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: subject matter is still so relatable. And some things have changed,

428
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: but some things haven't, and being able to look at

429
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Speaker 1: those things, you would think more things would have changed,

430
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Speaker 1: and some haven't changed at all. And then some like

431
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: what we're talking about in terms of women, have changed

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Speaker 1: where And I think some of it is because we

433
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: pulled the lid off just talking about it, Like, just

434
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: talking about it is so powerful.

435
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: Yes, it is, because if you're not.

436
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: Talking about it or feeling free to talk about it,

437
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: how are we ever going to figure stuff out? How

438
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: are we ever going to know all the things that

439
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: are going on or all the choices that you have,

440
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: or what it might be like to make these choices

441
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: or make these choices. You know what I'm saying? Yes, absolutely,

442
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: I absolutely Okay, So let's get back to the real

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00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: people for a second, because I get a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions about this. I'm sure you do too. So there's

445
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: real Miranda obviously, a real mister Big, and a real Samantha,

446
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: and then not a real me, which I kind of

447
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: knew because no one knew what to do with me

448
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: in the beginning, which is totally fine. And Michael Patrick

449
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: says that when he came on to he was like

450
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: I don't know how to write.

451
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: For that one.

452
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: And then Jenny Biggs came who grew up on the

453
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: Upper East Side, and she did know how to write

454
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: for me, so that helped kind of give me something

455
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: more like a through line that made sense, I guess.

456
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: And also, I mean that's how it often is when

457
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: a TV show starts. You know, you don't really know

458
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: right exactly. So as you were watching the show develop,

459
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: what were your thoughts on how Darren and company were writing?

460
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: You know, honestly, I always loved it. Oh good.

461
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 3: I always thought the show was first of all funny, yes,

462
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 3: and you know, the column was is funny, and and

463
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 3: you know, the humor is something that for me, it's

464
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: like unavoidable, right, I want to try to write seriously,

465
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 3: but but there's always this sort of deep humor that

466
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: comes across, and that really came across in this series.

467
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 3: And also, you know, it was a time like in

468
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: the nineties when women were a little bit badass, you know,

469
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 3: it was it was it was like, you know, we

470
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: can't we rule this town and we don't have to

471
00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 3: put up with, you know what men say, because we

472
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 3: you know, we have each other's backs and we're a

473
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 3: little group, and there's power in this friendship. And the

474
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 3: friendship part is so real and so important in New

475
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: York City because that is a real thing in this

476
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 3: city where there are actually more women than men, and

477
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: it's like, if you don't have female friends here, you're

478
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: gonna have a very hard time surviving.

479
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: Right, And I do think that is what really has

480
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: resonated over time with the show. Yes, and thank god,

481
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: you know, and I know there were different people who

482
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: felt different ways at different times of the long trajectory

483
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 1: of Sex and the City about whether people should have

484
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: gotten married or should not have gotten married, et cetera.

485
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: I get that, but I also feel like we've now

486
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: been through so many phases and the remaining thing is

487
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: the bond.

488
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly exactly, And you know, no, I always

489
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 3: loved the show. Oh good, I thought it was fantastic good.

490
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know for sure. I didn't know for sure.

491
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: I always didn't know. I didn't know if it was weird.

492
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: Like like when you say, so this was your you know,

493
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: your kind of almost like you know, research thing that

494
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: you were doing for years and years and years where

495
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: you're out and you're taking notes and you're studying people,

496
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: and you know these people and you're hearing stories and everything,

497
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden it gets kind of

498
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: taken over here, you know, into a TV show. I

499
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 1: didn't know if that was weird.

500
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,239
Speaker 3: You know, people always ask that question, and you know,

501
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: for me, no, good, it was never you know, it

502
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 3: was never strange or I mean, maybe there would be

503
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: some things that I know. I mean, honestly, there was

504
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: never anything that was strange or uncomfortable for me because

505
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: I was always writing.

506
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: You know.

507
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I've had like a lot of New York

508
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 3: Times bestsellers, so you had writing novels and you know,

509
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: and I had an opportunity to be on TV and

510
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 3: like have my own TV show and all of that

511
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: V one thing.

512
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: It was VH one.

513
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 3: I had that this show on VH one, right, I

514
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 3: think it was like one of the first reality shows,

515
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 3: which is crazy, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, And

516
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: and then I was you know, then there were people

517
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: who always wanted to make the real life version of

518
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: Sex and the City, which was interesting and I was like, no,

519
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: why because there's already a TV show that's for sure amazing, right,

520
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: And then I was on another reality show and the

521
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: fact does like, I just say that's sitting around.

522
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I means a lot of sitting around. It's it's

523
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: just it's true. I was like, I couldn't. And then

524
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: even when I had that show on VH one and

525
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: I had to sit in front of the mirror for

526
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: two hours.

527
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: Oh, it's the worst.

528
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: I was like, this will turn you into a narcissist.

529
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: It could. I think it can do numerous things, right,

530
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: it continue into the narcissists. It can also exacerbate all

531
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: of your insecurities that you ever had in your life. Right,

532
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: And maybe those are the two same things. I don't know,

533
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: but it is rough.

534
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: To have to do. I was like, can't.

535
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: I can't do it. It is rough.

536
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: I can't do it.

537
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: I can't.

538
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: I can't look at my face for two hours.

539
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: It's hard. It's really really hard. It's really really hard

540
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: to wait. Let's go back for a second. Okay, So

541
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: Darren's got the show and it's getting you know, first

542
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: we were small, as you remember, and then you know,

543
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: it grew and go and grew. You're over still doing

544
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: your writing, doing different things. You've got different things going on.

545
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: So you weren't like focused on the show necessarily, No, okay.

546
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: I mean, in fact, well, they used to send me

547
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: the DVDs or the vhs.

548
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: H they were vhs.

549
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: They would send them to me on Wednesday, right, and

550
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: and you know, I would watch it like it was

551
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: going to be good. And then I always thought it

552
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: was great, okay, good, and then people would watch it

553
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: on Sundaday, yeah, and and be really excited about it.

554
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 3: And I just thought, oh, you know, I had a

555
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: book that was turned into a TV show.

556
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: So and I mean.

557
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: It was really like the first two seasons, I wasn't

558
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: you know, I guess it was a hit, but it wasn't.

559
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't a big hit till third Yeah. I got

560
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: for that, Emmy. That's when I felt myself like what, yes.

561
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: I mean it was like after the second season that

562
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: it felt like it really took off. And in fact,

563
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: I actually thought it was going to be over when

564
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: mister Big dumps Carrie and marry somebody else, because that

565
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: happened in my real life.

566
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: Oh did it? Yes?

567
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: I really there was a time when walking around New

568
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: York people would be like, the real mister Big did this,

569
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: and I just be like, I can't deal with that,

570
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: because we have to deal with our fictional selves. Right,

571
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: So there's a time that I tuned it out, so

572
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: I didn't really know how it played out, yes for

573
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: you personally, Yes, so that happened.

574
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: In real life and that and I thought, oh, that

575
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: would be like that, that'll be the end, the end,

576
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: got it. You know, it's like it's told the whole

577
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: story of Carrie and mister Big and he you know,

578
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: ends up marrying somebody else, which is like such a

579
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 3: New York story. Yes, and and so I really thought

580
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: that would be that's the end.

581
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: Got this series.

582
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: Got it? And then it kept going and it's still going. Yeah,

583
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: I mean, which is really incredible, isn't it incredible? I

584
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: agree that it's incredible. I mean, we're so lucky to

585
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: be able to keep going with these characters, I think.

586
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: And we're so lucky to have the writing that we've

587
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: always had and to have the characters that you started,

588
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: because nothing would happen without that, you know, Like, characters

589
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: and writing is the whole. It's the whole thing. I Mean.

590
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: People talk about actors, and I understand actors are where

591
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: you're looking at, but if you don't have the material,

592
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: it's not going to succeed, you know, there's almost nothing

593
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: you can do to make it succeed. You can be

594
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: super charismatic and it's still not going to work, you

595
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean.

596
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I mean I do always say it like

597
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: it kind of has to be on the page. If

598
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: it's not on the page, it's not going to work

599
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: on the screen. I agree.

600
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it might work for a second, you know

601
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, but it won't work over time. So

602
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: in the real life, when so mister Big previous to

603
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: him marrying someone else on the show, which I didn't

604
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: really I wasn't aware of the parallels still happening with life.

605
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: Were you happy with how they developed mister Big and carry?

606
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: How did you feel about that, because it's very interesting

607
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: to look back on it. I think, you know it is.

608
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: And at the time, I I know what, I didn't.

609
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: I didn't think about it that much. It seemed natural

610
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: to me.

611
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

612
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: And you know, but now.

613
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: With all this social media, a lot of people question it.

614
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: And no, I mean, I mean, you know, in real life,

615
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: you know, the real mister Big was. He was a

616
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 3: you know, he was a great guy, but he was

617
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: also a very powerful man, and you know, powerful men

618
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: in New York City at that time were really a

619
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: specific breed. You know, they threw things, They threw phones,

620
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: they threw this, they threw that.

621
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: So in some ways, mister Big was even softer than

622
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: the real deal, because I don't remember him throwing a phone.

623
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: No, he didn't throw a phone.

624
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: But in real life, I think the real mister Big

625
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: had thrown a phone and it ended up in page six.

626
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 2: Wow of course, wow wow wow. But he's he was actually.

627
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: A great guy, and I was really in love with him,

628
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: and but it just we were in just totally different places,

629
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 3: like he was winding down. He actually left New York

630
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: and went and lived and still lives in Vermont. And

631
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 3: now when I look at his life, I'm like, why

632
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: didn't I.

633
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: Go for that?

634
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: Living on a farm in New Hampshire would Well, now

635
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: I think I would. Interesting now that I'm like old,

636
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, I could do that.

637
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: That is so interesting. Oh how we change? Yes, but

638
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: I don't.

639
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's right.

640
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: Okay, too, Okay, but it's an interesting fantasy. In fantasy,

641
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: I had heard that about him, which I did think

642
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: was also super interesting.

643
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 3: Yes, And also when I look back on the book,

644
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 3: I realized he was looking for a very serious relationship.

645
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 3: He wanted to get married, and I was so not

646
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 3: there got it. I mean he was saying things like, oh,

647
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: we should have a baby, and I was like.

648
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: No way, Yes, that's interesting. So I thought that we

649
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: didn't put that in. We don't have that. No, wow,

650
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: very fast, so.

651
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 3: That you know, so that you know, so in the

652
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: I mean, it followed a trajectory. But I feel like

653
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: in the first two seasons it was pretty it was

654
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: pretty realistic.

655
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, good, that's good to me.

656
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 3: I wonder I like, you know, you know the way

657
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 3: Carrie was like even when she goes to the church

658
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: to see his mother. Right, it's like, you know, that

659
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 3: was the kind of stuff that we did back then, right,

660
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 3: I know, it's kind of I mean it's yeah, it's

661
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: now when I look back on it, it's like, I

662
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: don't even know how we did that. But I mean

663
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 3: there was like a guy was in love with when

664
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: I was twenty years old, and I used to go

665
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 3: and sit on a park bench in front of his

666
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 3: building and wait.

667
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: For him to come home. I mean, come, oh and

668
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: wany god, nobody would ever do that.

669
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Well, no, we wouldn't have to. We would stalk them

670
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: on Instagram or TikTok or whatever exactly right, exactly, but

671
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: you'd have to go in person.

672
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it's like, yeah, I mean so

673
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 3: I get it because I feel like I was you know,

674
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 3: it's a girl. Yeah, yeah, he's like, I'm going to

675
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: get this guy. I'm going to show up and he's

676
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 3: going to fall in love with me. Well, I mean

677
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 3: nowadays it's like that.

678
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 2: Will not work. But it won't.

679
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 3: No, that's what these experts on TikTok say.

680
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: The men, really the men, The men.

681
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: Okay, what do men say?

682
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,959
Speaker 2: They say things like don't approach a guy in a bar.

683
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 3: What, Yes, because it's such odd behavior that the man

684
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: will immediately think that you are, you know, unhinged.

685
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: This is bizarre.

686
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 2: This is bizarre.

687
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: And this is another change that is fascinating. Yes, and

688
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: I would have seen this coming.

689
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 3: Never because I remember we used to go up to

690
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: men and bars all.

691
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: The time, right, and I thought that was a good thing.

692
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: Yes, it was.

693
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so weird. See that's a weird and interesting thing too,

694
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: because like in some ways we're talking about women who

695
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: are I don't know older, questioning you know the validity

696
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: of a heterosexual relationship. Then on the other hand, we

697
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: have men on TikTok saying, don't approach a man in

698
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: bar because they might think you're crazy. Like, it's a

699
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: very weird dichotomy going on.

700
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: It is, it's wacky, it is there's been a lot

701
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 3: of It feels like there's a lot of separation between

702
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: the sexes just sad yes, in a way that there

703
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: wasn't before. And I also see a lot of women

704
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 3: on these dating reality shows. If the guy voted Republican,

705
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,439
Speaker 3: they ain't ending up with him.

706
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: They're like, no, I don't watch any of those shows

707
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: because I find them depressing. But anyone who might be

708
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: on those shows, listen to Candace because she knows what

709
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: she's saying. Okay, I know nothing about that. Now let

710
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: me get back on track of I have literally so

711
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: many questions for you, and then we have to think

712
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: about the actual episode. Right, Yes, but this is so cool.

713
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: So let's just go back to where we were in

714
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: terms of the show and third season when it hit big,

715
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: right when we got nominated for the Emmy, which we

716
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: never believed would happened. I remember Darren and I used

717
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: to make jokes first and second season about him maybe

718
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: one day we would get nominated for a Cable Ace Award,

719
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: something that they got rid of real quick, do you remember,

720
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: because Cable became like the prestige you know, content provider, right,

721
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: and then suddenly one morning we get the call that

722
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: we have been nominated for an Emmy.

723
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 3: It was insane. See it didn't seem strange to me.

724
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 3: Oh no, because it was like, the show's brilliant. I

725
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 3: always thought the show was brilliant. I did got it.

726
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: That's good, you know, good for you.

727
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: So I thought it seemed you know, it seemed very normal.

728
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 3: But you know, I wasn't person right, you didn't come

729
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: from the TV from the TV world. So for me

730
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, of course we got nominated, got

731
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 3: it for an Emmy. But I remember I was staying

732
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 3: at Darren's house during the ammy's and he was like, oh,

733
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: we got nominated. You know you're gonna go. I didn't

734
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: get to go. I had to sit in the HBO room.

735
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, and then I could go to the

736
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 3: parties afterward.

737
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: But they're the best part. But yeah, it was like

738
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: it was really exciting.

739
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: It was exciting. I mean, it was exciting for us

740
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: because I don't think that we thought that it would

741
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: ever happen, right, And I think that we thought that

742
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: it was fine. I think that we thought we would

743
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: be like a little cult hit, you know, like Larry Sanders, right,

744
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: like that type of like beloved in the industry maybe

745
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: but not widespread. And then you know the fact that

746
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: people cared and were so invested.

747
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so amazing, really invested.

748
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 3: And I remember at the New York Observer them saying

749
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: to me, I guess it was like maybe it was

750
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: like the when the third season started, I'm saying, like,

751
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: you know what, now Sex in the City is made

752
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 3: being single really really cool. Wow, being single in your

753
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: thirties and everybody's watching it.

754
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, that's great.

755
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: It is great, And I mean wish it were still

756
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: true because I still feel like people just have this

757
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: desire to couple everybody up, you know, don't you feel

758
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: I mean, even though I think women maybe have more choices,

759
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: I think like society at large is always like why

760
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: are you single? Why are you single? Why are you single?

761
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: Well, you know, now there are more and more single women,

762
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 3: which is great. I think it's like fifty one percent

763
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 3: of the population. No way, Yes, fifty one percent of

764
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: women over.

765
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: Eighteen are single. That's amazing.

766
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: Yes, and it used to be forty three percent in

767
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 3: like twenty twelve. Wow, it's increasing, and it really is

768
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: increasing amongst young women. So it's really the young women

769
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 3: who I see on social media who are questioning, like,

770
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 3: you know, what am I getting out of a heterosexual relationship?

771
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 3: You know, I'm doing all this work. Yes, he's kind

772
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: of disrespectful, he's cheating on me. Oh no, and he's

773
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: not treating me the way that I want to be treated,

774
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 3: and I'm super stressed, and I just don't I.

775
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: Think that's amazing.

776
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: So I wish I had asked those questions in my

777
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: twenties for goodness sake, I know, but we couldn't.

778
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: No, no, we had to toe the line of you know,

779
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: a relationship much weird of us.

780
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know if I thought it

781
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: was going to save me. I just felt like I

782
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 1: was supposed to do that, you know what I mean.

783
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: And I just also like, when I look back at

784
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: the shows from first season, mister Big is so aloof

785
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: to Gary and she is so adorable and trying so

786
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: hard and trying different things tru I mean, and she's

787
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: kind of trying to hide herself. And then at one

788
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: episode she talks about like, I don't even show him

789
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: my real self exactly. It's such a great, great episode

790
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: because you know, she's amazing. Of course she should show

791
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: him her real self. She's unbelievable, right, And obviously that

792
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: is also just maturity. It's a conversation you have with

793
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: yourself at a certain point of like, if I'm actually

794
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: going to be with someone, I need to actually be

795
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: my authentic self obviously. But it was so great because

796
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: and he would do that thing where she would try

797
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: to get him to talk, like for like the whole

798
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: beginning of the first season, and he would evade, evade, evate,

799
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: But then his actions like he'd she says, I want

800
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: to stand alone with you, you know, stand still with you

801
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: in the city of seven million people or whatever it

802
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: was back then, and he's like, oh, you're in the

803
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: back and I'm in the front of the park. He

804
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: complains and complains, but then he stands still with her

805
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: under the moonlight. Do you remember this, Like his actions

806
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: kind of give her what she wants over some hope.

807
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think today it would be called breadcrumbing. Hang,

808
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: oh my god, you are where he gives her these

809
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 3: little bits. I mean, I think like in today's dating landscape,

810
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 3: if you look at their relationship in those first couple

811
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: of seasons, you know, I I like, I understand it's

812
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 3: hard to look at that relationship through today's lens because

813
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 3: he is so aloof and he is so noncommittal, and

814
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 3: she is trying to turn herself into whatever she thinks

815
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 3: the man wants, which is what women did back then.

816
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 3: Women were told to turn yourself into what the guy wants,

817
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: and that's how you will get him. And you know,

818
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: there are still some women out there on social media

819
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 3: who are saying just you know, like become what he wants.

820
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that's saying that never goes away. I think,

821
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't even know what's happening with

822
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: this tradwife situation, but like like that, like what is it? Like?

823
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: What on earth? Do you know? What I mean? I mean,

824
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: we've got some women questioning the validity of a heterosexual relationship,

825
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: and then we've got tradwives, yes.

826
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: Cream And the thing that's so interesting to me is

827
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 3: also there's this huge interest in romance like romance novels,

828
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: and now it's romanticy. It's basically a romance with a

829
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: something out of a fantasy, like a dragon, like a dragon.

830
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, exactly Game of Thrones, thank you very much.

831
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 3: You know, then at the same time we have there

832
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 3: is a real movement also of women saying, you know,

833
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do what society is telling women

834
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 3: to do. But at the same time, like the romance

835
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: is bigger than ever. So it's falcinating acotomy. It's very

836
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 3: fascinating and strange. I wonder what's going to happen. We

837
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 3: never know.

838
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: Don't ask me, I know, I don't know.

839
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: No, don't don't und don't no, no, don't gloom and

840
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: do I mean, it might be coming, but let's not

841
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: think about it if it is exactly so, Candace, thank

842
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: you for being with us this whole week. Two episodes

843
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: of Candace Bush Now, yay, that's fantastic. Candace has been

844
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: so great to take us back to the beginning of

845
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: the show and also to remind us that she has

846
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: written and is performing a one woman show, also about

847
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: writing the column and the book that became Sex in

848
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: the City and it is called True Tales of Sex,

849
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: Success and Sex and the City the tour and she's

850
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: been all around the world with this tour. Congratulations, thank you.

851
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 3: It's amazing and it's coming to New York and this

852
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: will be at Sony Hall on May sixteenth.

853
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: Awesome, that's amazing. And congratulations on all of your so

854
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: many New York Times sellers and everything that you do. Oh,

855
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 1: thank you. You're welcome.

856
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 3: M