1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Friends. 2 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: I am always excited to be here with you. Every 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: week we have guests that I adore, admire, and am 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: fascinated by. But when I tell you that today, I 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: am almost vibrating out of my own chair because I 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: am so excited about the woman who is here with me. 7 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: She is an icon, an idol of mine. Her music 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: raised me, her stories have inspired me. She is one 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: of those people who reminds me that courage is contagious. 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: Our guest today is none other than the iconic Melissa Asridge. 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: Melissa is one of rock music's great female icons who 12 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: happens to have become an icon in rock and roll 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: when there were almost no women playing the guitar. Her 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 1: popularity was built around incredible songs like bring Me Some Water, 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: No Souvenirs Come to My Window, which is personally one 16 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: of my favorites in the world. Her fourth album, Yes 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: I Am, earned her a second Grammy, and in the 18 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: midst of this incredible career, she battled breast cancer publicly 19 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: and shared her journey with fans, even taking the stage 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: in front of massive audiences completely bald, inspiring people to 21 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: never give Up. She made her Broadway debut in Green 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: Day's rock opera American Idiot in twenty eleven, the same 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: year she happened to receive her star on the Hollywood 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: Walk of Fame, and this year she has launched the 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: incredible show My Window on Broadway. I was lucky enough 26 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: to go and see it opening night in New York 27 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: and I was positively shaking out of my chair that 28 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: night as well. The play is such a beautiful retrospective 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: of her career. It'll make you cry, it'll make you laugh, 30 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: it'll make you sing along. And I think the coolest 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard anyone do when launching a Broadway 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: show about their life is that she also happened to 33 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: write this show with her wife and her best friend 34 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: and co producer while writing a memoir of her life. 35 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: Talking to My Angels is her beautifully engrossing and harrowing 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: story about her life. It's really a testament to the 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: power of art. It's a touchstone for anyone seeking a 38 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: path out of darkness, and it is a powerful love 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: letter from Melissa to her family and her fans who 40 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: have been integral to her journey. I cannot wait to 41 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: ask her one ba Jillian questions about all of these things. 42 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: Let's get to it. I'm going to go ahead and 43 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: tell everybody at home listening a couple of things that 44 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: some of them I know, have read. There were some 45 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: folks after your beautiful show on Broadway my window opened 46 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: who saw some of the things that I said on 47 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: the carpet that night and were. 48 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, save I grew up. I'm so 49 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: obsessed with her. I can't believe you got to go. 50 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: I wish I was in New York. People are so 51 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: excited about this retrospective of your career. But for all 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: our friends at home, I have to sort of throw 53 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: myself under the bus a little bit. The first night 54 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: that I met Melissa was last year at Elton John's 55 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: Big Beautiful fundraiser around the Oscars. He raises money for 56 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: the Elton John Aids Foundation. 57 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: And I was walking in and I turned around and 58 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: I saw you on the carpet, and they all at home. 59 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: I just never had this happen to me before. I 60 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: got so excited. I started crying and I was like, 61 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, this is really awkward. I love you, 62 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: and I grew up listening to your music on repeat, 63 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: like to the point that my parents were like, the 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: album is so good, but maybe listen to something else 65 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: in the house. And you know that was yes, I 66 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: am you know, as an eighties baby, the early nineties 67 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: was my moment to discover my own musical taste. And Melissa, 68 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: you were so gracious and sweet. You gave me a hug, 69 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: you told me everything was fine house, Like, I don't 70 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: know what's happening to me and here we are. So 71 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: thank you for humoring me for a real long conversation today. 72 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 3: Very sweet. Those things can be so strange, and that 73 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: was very very sweet. 74 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: Wow, you were just so lovely and it was such 75 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: a special night. And yeah, I always love when I 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: get to meet people I really admire who are likewise 77 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: passionate about using their big, beautiful platforms for good causes 78 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: and you know, doing good in the world. 79 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 4: And that's really. 80 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: Been something that I think you've done for so long. 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's the more you are in this endie, 82 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 3: the more you have what others might you know, think 83 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: of as success or something, the more you realize that 84 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 3: the real joy is not in Oh I got this, 85 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 3: I got that. The real joy is all I was 86 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 3: able to experience this, and this feels good, and you 87 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: just go to what feels good. So you'll you're you're 88 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 3: on that path and you'll you'll just be keeping you know, 89 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: keep doing that. 90 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: Oh that's so kind. I love to ask folks who 91 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: joined me on the show because we get to talk 92 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: to so many people who have these illustrious careers and 93 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: who are doing such cool things in the world. I 94 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: always like to take someone who we can all look 95 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: at and go, wow, they're you know, a musician, an activist, 96 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: a leader, so outspoken, all these things, and ask how 97 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: similar you were as a kid? Like do you? And 98 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: I feel like I have a little inside scoop because 99 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: I got to watch the show and it's such a 100 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: beautiful retrospective. But for the folks who haven't been lucky 101 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: enough to see. 102 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 4: It, were you or can you? 103 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: I guess from this vantage point, look back at who 104 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: Melissa was at you know, eight or nine years old, 105 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: and see traces of this same woman. 106 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, you're always the same you, even 107 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: though it constantly evolves and changes, you always have that 108 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 3: same inner being, that same inner child, young woman, whatever 109 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 3: it is, it's still the same heart and you know, 110 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 3: I had a dream I back in the sixties. I 111 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: grew up in the sixties and just the the music, 112 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 3: the idea entertainment was becoming. The big thing back then 113 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 3: was you know, music and then rock and roll and 114 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: and it was so powerful that I dared to dream, 115 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 3: Oh I want to I want some of that. And 116 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: that still is inside me. It definitely. You know, the 117 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: world changes, everything changes, and what it looks like now, 118 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: you know, fifty years later there's a lot is a 119 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: lot different, but it's still that same dream. It's still 120 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: that same reaching for something. And that's a beautiful thing 121 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 3: to have, is to really look and go, oh, I 122 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: want to be there. Yeah. 123 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: And when you hear something new, I mean the budding 124 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: sounds of that era that can move you, you know, 125 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: move your spirit and you go, oh a human made that, 126 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: like a person made all those sounds. 127 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 4: And now I'm. 128 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,559 Speaker 1: Feeling feelings through a radio. Yeah. Will you tell people 129 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: what the first song was that really shook you up? 130 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: Well? In the show, I talk about how I was 131 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: about three years old and I was in my neighbor's driveway. 132 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: All the kids were you know, it's the sixties and 133 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: they just let children run wild. We were all over 134 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 3: the neighborhood and I was just standing there and some 135 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: kid handed me a transistor radio and I heard, you know, 136 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: the Beatles. I want to hold your hand, it was, 137 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: And I remember I had a very distinct memory of 138 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: hearing that, thinking the sound of those harmonies in that 139 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: you know that that whole thing just was like nothing 140 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: I'd ever heard it. And it it's hard to explain 141 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: how the Beatles sounded back to how nothing had sounded 142 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: like that before and causing that Beatlemania, causing the sound 143 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 3: and the look was was just you know, transformative to 144 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 3: everybody back then. And and that got me totally interested 145 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 3: in My sister had their albums. My parents had other 146 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: great album his Moms and the Papa's Simon Garfunkel, you 147 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 3: know a great soul singers, Aretha Franklin, and they just 148 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 3: had a great album collection. My sister, who was older, 149 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: had had kind of a rock and roll collection. So 150 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 3: I grew up with all that and and it just 151 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: it was it was thrilling, just through. 152 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: That's so cool. And so as you grow up in 153 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: this amazing era and you know, rock and rolls hitting 154 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: the scene and music is changing, how how does the 155 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: story move through you realizing this was such a passion 156 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: in your life, and and then breaking into the music industry. 157 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: I mean, were was your family supportive of the dream? 158 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: Did people think it was a pipe dream? Were there 159 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: pitfalls along the way because it's it's such a good story. 160 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: Well, the I I beg my parents for a guitar. 161 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: I was crazy about the Archies. Actually, the the there's 162 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: a well everyone knows the Archies now because there's like 163 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 3: Riverdale and all those things. Yeah, and the Archies when 164 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 3: I was a kid was just so cool. It was 165 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 3: all the high school kids, you know, playing and I 166 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: was like, wow, I want to do that. And so 167 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: I started playing at the age of eight, and of 168 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: course they said I couldn't They They got the guitar 169 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: actually for my sister, which really broke my heart. When 170 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 3: I bagged and bagged, they finally said, well, all right, 171 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 3: put your fingers are bleak, And yeah, my fingers bled 172 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: But I started playing, and and it was My teacher 173 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 3: was very, very stern, but he was serious and good. 174 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: And I practiced my lessons and came in every day 175 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 3: and learned and learned. And when I learned chords, this 176 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: is now, this is the end of the sixties. This 177 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 3: is early seventies, and I'm I'm playing chords, and I realized, wow, 178 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 3: that's a song. And now we're in the We're in 179 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: the kind of the folk music of the sixties early seventies, 180 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: and it's all you know, even girls, you know, playing 181 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 3: guitars and singing. That's happening. So I'm feeling, wow, I 182 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 3: can do this, and I start making up songs. You know, 183 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: I was twelve years old. I didn't know anything, you know, 184 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: but I was copying, you know, what I'd heard and 185 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: trying to put my own spin on it. And a 186 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 3: lot in the show, I say, you know, I used 187 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 3: to write these really dramatic, sad songs, you know, about 188 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 3: their story songs, and my friends would all cry, and 189 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: how much I loved that I was getting an emotional 190 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: response from something I created. So that was the beginning 191 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 3: of that. And then actually having the opportunity to play 192 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 3: in bands when I was younger, through the talent show 193 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 3: that I entered, and he made a variety show and 194 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: then there's a band there and I it just it's 195 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 3: just one step at a time. It just happens one 196 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: thing after another, very small steps, but they all, you know, 197 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 3: end up with me as a teenager on the weekend 198 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: singing in professional cover bands all all over the Midwest. 199 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 3: And that was a great opportunity because I got to 200 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 3: be comfortable in front of people. I learned other instruments, 201 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: I learned how to perform on stage. Frankly, I don't 202 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 3: I feel sorry for a lot of artists today that 203 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: sort of are in their late teens or early twenties 204 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 3: and all they've ever done is make music in their 205 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 3: bedroom on their computer, you know, and then all of 206 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 3: a sudden, okay, go perform to twenty thousand people, and 207 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: they know they're scared to death. They'd never done it. 208 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 3: I was able to, you know, perform to ten people, 209 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: to twenty to you know, fifty in a room, to 210 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 3: drunk people to I've had all kinds of things happen. 211 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: So I feel very safe on stage, and it leads 212 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: to being able to be a good performer. 213 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's so interesting that that you do have 214 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: to find your confidence to make your art in front 215 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: of other humans, regardless of what those other humans are doing. 216 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 4: Yeah. 217 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to not take it personally. That's the man. 218 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: You There's a story my wife as a whole other 219 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: very interesting life and she used to actually in the 220 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: eighties she was a chauffeur driver. She was a limo 221 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 3: driver and she drove Liza Minelli Wow and yeah, and 222 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: which she has incredible stories about that. But she has 223 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 3: this one story about when Liza played Carnegie Hall. How 224 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 3: and this is about taking it personally. How the whole 225 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 3: place stood on their feet to give her a standing 226 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: ovation because there was that one guy in the back 227 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 3: that didn't and she obsessed about that guy and how 228 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 3: he didn't stand up. And later after the show she 229 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 3: sees that guy in his wheelchair leaving and she's like, 230 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: oh my god, I was I was suffering and taking 231 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 3: personally that for some reason, you didn't like me, So 232 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 3: you never know. So you can't be on stage looking 233 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 3: at an audience and then taking personally what they're giving you. 234 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: You have to say, I'm doing this. It's going one 235 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 3: way and I don't need anything from you. I hope 236 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: you appreciate this, but this is my art. It takes 237 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: a night after it takes a year after year after 238 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: year of doing it to really not take it personally. 239 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: Wow, you had to bolster that confidence. I just saw 240 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: this cool video of Brene Brown talking about how if 241 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: you walk around in the world looking for proof that 242 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: you're not enough, you'll find it. You get to prove 243 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: whatever story you tell yourself. 244 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, but to. 245 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: Learn to stand in your confidence and in your your light, 246 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: I think is hard. It's much harder, you know, done 247 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: than said. 248 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: That's just week after week, month after month is doing it. 249 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 3: You can't get it wrong there. You'll have upset downs. 250 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 3: You can't get wrong because it you will always have 251 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 3: another chance. You go, Okay, maybe I took it off 252 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: the rails this time, but I can really try next 253 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: time and learn from it. And that's all. We're just learning. 254 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: We're not here to get it perfect. Nobody's getting it perfect. 255 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 3: We're just learning. It's fun in the learning. 256 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Did it feel a little bit like that, you know, 257 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: when you left Kansas and you moved to Boston for 258 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: college and then quickly realized you just wanted to be 259 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: playing music and not really doing the school part? Was 260 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: that part of finding your footing and your confidence too, 261 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: to say, oh, I really want to commit to what 262 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: it is I know I want to do and maybe 263 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: I don't have to do this more traditional path. Was 264 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: it scary or did it just sort of happen and 265 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: did you not have to think about it? 266 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: Well? I didn't. I didn't like letting my parents down. 267 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: I remember my mother showing me. She goes come up 268 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: and into her room where she had her desk, and 269 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 3: she was actually the moneymaker in the family, and so 270 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 3: she actually controlled the checkbook and the balances and stuff. 271 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: My father was great, he was a teacher. Teachers make 272 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: no money. Unfortunately, my mother she called me into her 273 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 3: room and showed me the check she was writing to 274 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: the school, which at the time was only like three 275 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: thousand dollars. So this, you know, I college tuitions are 276 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 3: crazy nowadays, but back then it was tight thousand dollars. 277 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: And she said, now this is what I'm paying. This 278 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: is how much I'm paying. So when you want to 279 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: skip class, you remember this. And so when I was there, 280 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 3: and I was really not liking it because one I 281 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: was the whole school had maybe ten women in it, 282 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 3: and there was two of us in the guitar. You know, 283 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 3: there's not women. This is nineteen seventy nine. Women weren't, 284 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: you know, playing guitar. It just wasn't happening, and it 285 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 3: was very difficult to get noticed in the school. And 286 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: I remember one of I had started playing in this 287 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 3: restaurant and one of my teachers, one of my professors, 288 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: came just you know, just happened to be there in 289 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 3: the in the lounge, sitting and talking. I was like, 290 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, she's going to see me here doing 291 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 3: my thing. And he didn't even recognize it. He didn't 292 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: even notice me, didn't didn't notice me from his class. 293 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 3: And I thought, man, I'm just I'm I'm blank there 294 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: and I'm getting nothing. And I did quit. I didn't 295 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: tell my mom for a while. I just kind of 296 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 3: went until they, you know, until they let her know 297 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 3: that I wasn't showing up and well and and as 298 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 3: my mom eventually said when she was much older, she said, 299 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 3: well everything turned out. Okay. 300 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: I love when you hit that point with your parents 301 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: where you can really be adults together in the room. 302 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh yeah. 303 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: I've really experienced a shift in my relationship with my parents, 304 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: and probably the last five years that's just been super cool. 305 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a 306 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. I also remember from the show 307 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: you you know you sharing with all of us that 308 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: after this wonderful stint in Boston, you went home for 309 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: a time and that when you well, this is going 310 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: to be a little out of order. Now let me 311 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: let me, let me re ask this question now that 312 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: I can feel my heart rate sewing. So surrounding your 313 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: journey in Boston and figuring out what parts of school 314 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: were for you and what weren't, and and what a 315 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: wild thing to think about how the dynamic of you 316 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: being a woman really affected your position in music even 317 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: as a student. You know that there was really this 318 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: sort of intense withholding over gender of opportunity. You talk 319 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: about being one of two women even studying guitar. Was 320 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: was the other woman in that class with you your 321 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: roommate or was that a different well that was a 322 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: different gall at school. 323 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, my roommate was studying voice. This was 324 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 3: just just as far as guitar. They just and I 325 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 3: would venture to say, they still don't take women guitar 326 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: players seriously. It's just it is like the last stranglehold 327 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 3: of the patriarchy is that women. You know, they don't 328 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 3: trust a woman is in rock and roll, you know, 329 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 3: is playing the guitar. So it's that that's but you know, 330 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 3: it'll change, and as everything does, it's just that's, you know, 331 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: all the advances. I mean, I don't know if you 332 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: know who Yon Winner is and what he just went through. 333 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: Yon Winner, look up Yon Winter his last interview in 334 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: New Yorker in the New York Times. He was the 335 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: founder of Rolling Stone magazine, which was like the taste 336 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: maker of rock and roll through the sixties, seventies, you know, 337 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 3: all through the whole rock and roll era. And he 338 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 3: just released a book called The Masters where he took 339 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: all his great interviews that he'd ever done, and he 340 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 3: put him in a book and they were all white men. 341 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 3: And the interviewer asked him, well, don't you think you're 342 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 3: missing out on maybe some people of color and some women, 343 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 3: And he was like, no, they didn't know. And he 344 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 3: had the opportunity to actually go, oh yeah, well and 345 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: say something, but he was like, no, they were not 346 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: as intelligent or and you know, we're talking Joni Mitchell 347 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: and and you know, Jimmy Hendrix and Prince and you're saying, 348 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 3: you know so, And he just got in a lot 349 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 3: of trouble for that. But what I'm saying is that 350 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: just happened this year where you know, all the other 351 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: sort of equalizing has been happening in the last ten years. 352 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 3: The music industry is probably the last. You know, it's 353 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 3: been a very male dominated space for a long time. 354 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a really interesting thing that we're 355 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: seeing everywhere in this time, right is there's been these 356 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: ideas of progress, but you see that sort of pendulum swing, 357 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: and it feels like we've been rolling it back so intensely. 358 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: Whether it's in your industry, in my industry, you see 359 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: it in politics and you go, oh boy, we really 360 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: they really want to cling to power, don't they. 361 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 3: Exactly? I wouldn't want. I wouldn't call it rolling back 362 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 3: to me. I think it's pulling the curtain off of 363 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 3: it and finally and. 364 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 4: Going how deep it goes? 365 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 3: WHOA, that's really like it? Like I didn't I knew. 366 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: I always knew, yeah, well there's not many women rock 367 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 3: and roll and whatever, but I didn't know there was 368 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 3: an active I didn't know just how deeply entrenched it 369 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 3: was the belief of, oh no, these these women are serious. 370 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 3: There's nothing serious here. They're not intelligent, they're not articulate, 371 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: and you know, and and that that's what's mind blowing. 372 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 3: And then you see these politicians and they can't get away. 373 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 3: You know, we've got there's cameras everywhere. They're going to 374 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: catch everything, and they can't get away with it, and 375 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 3: we see it more. It's not that we're going back. 376 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: I think it's a sign of we're going forward because 377 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 3: the what used to kind of be silently in power 378 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 3: is not anymore. It's it's revealed and we can all 379 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 3: go wow, and then we're moving on from that. So 380 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: I think it's a good thing. It's a kind of 381 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 3: an ugly, painful thing, but it's good in the end. 382 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's really that's really a cool way to 383 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: look at it. And I think about, you know, when 384 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: you talk about the people left out of that book, 385 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: or the people who've historically been you know, left out 386 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: of the rooms where it happens. As they say, you know, 387 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: it's been hard for women. It's also been incredibly hard 388 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: for folks from the LGBTQ community, and they yet here 389 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: you are in a time where it was hard for women, 390 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: where it was extra hard for gay women, and you 391 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: managed to break through into the you know, top tier 392 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: of rock and roll, and it's so inspiring it was 393 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: inspiring to me as a young artist. It's inspiring to 394 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: me and so many people around the world still, you 395 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: know now and I think about some things that really 396 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: stuck out to me in your show, you know, seeing 397 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: it on Broadway. Even you talking about the way you're 398 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: roommate was like I see you, Yeah, like she knew 399 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: who you were and you were finding your identity as 400 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: a as a queer woman. You know, in this time, 401 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: what was that like? Because we see now again to 402 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: your point, all this progress has been made, and we 403 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: see as we peel back the next layer, how many 404 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: people want to attack you know, people's freedom and autonomy. 405 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: And we're thinking about, you know, decades ago. Was it 406 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: Was it a scary time? Was it a time where 407 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: you could feel that progress happening? Was it all of 408 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: it at once? 409 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 3: I think I've had a really great time to be 410 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 3: alive and to to go through this and see it firsthand. 411 00:24:54,440 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 3: Because I can tell folks like yourself this that growing 412 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: up with sixties and seventies. In the sixties and early seventies, 413 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: being a homosexual was considered a mental illness, and they 414 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 3: were in a lot of states they were throwing us 415 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 3: in jail for this. They were arresting us and throwing 416 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 3: us in jail, so you didn't want it was dangerous. 417 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 3: And the seventies were when we first started pushing back 418 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: and going no, we're not and getting a little bit 419 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 3: of traction. But you still, if you came out to 420 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 3: your parents or anybody, you would destroy the family because 421 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 3: it was they would think, you know, depending on their beliefs, 422 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: you know, one you're going to hell or whatever, but 423 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 3: that your life was going to be miserable, that you 424 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 3: were picking a lonely, dark life if you were homosexual, 425 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 3: because that's all anybody knew. And it wasn't until let's see, 426 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: I graduated high school in seventy nine and became a 427 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,239 Speaker 3: young adult in the eighties, and that was when it 428 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 3: started getting a little like you'd see a little bit more. 429 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 3: They were the weirdos, you know. The women were there, 430 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 3: you know, and the kind of you know, really strong 431 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: kind of thing, and the men were the most effeminate. 432 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 3: You know. It was it was the outer you know, 433 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: the places of the personality of the LGBT community that 434 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: was making all the change, because they're the ones that 435 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 3: can't hide it, you know. There, you know, all of 436 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: us in the middle were like, well, what I mean, 437 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: I can pass a straight you know, And so so 438 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: the work was being done by that the fringes, and 439 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: the more it happened in the eighties, and the more 440 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 3: comfortable I got in my in the women's community I 441 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 3: was in in Long Beach in Los Angeles, the stronger 442 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 3: it got. There was a there was a in young 443 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 3: Hollywood in the late eighties early nineties, there was a 444 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: community of gays and lesbians that, you know, professionals that 445 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 3: were making a lot of business in One by one 446 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 3: we'd all kind of step forward. And the more people 447 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: came out, you know, myself, Martinez and Avertilova, Billy Jean King. 448 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 3: The more these successful people came out, you had to 449 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 3: change the conversation about well, if you're gay, you're going 450 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: to have a dark, horrible life. It's like, people go, no, 451 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 3: I'm not having a horrible life. It'd saved my life 452 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 3: to be who I was. So you start having the 453 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 3: conversation and it starts changing hearts and minds. And through 454 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 3: the nineties and two thousands and twenty tens, those thirty years, 455 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 3: we have grown a lot to where today, I mean, 456 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 3: you might think that you know, we're struggling and everything, 457 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: but man, we are way far from where we were 458 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 3: in Our struggles are no longer okay, you're going to 459 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 3: throw me in jail or you're going to kill me. 460 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: You know, it's now, Oh I might you're going to 461 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 3: take this book out of school because you think, you know, 462 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: that's it's a different struggle, but it's still the it's 463 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 3: because of the expansion of the LGBTQ community that that 464 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 3: there is such pushback. But the pushback is now on 465 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: the fringes and not you know, in the middle, because 466 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 3: the Oh god, I can go on and on about this, 467 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 3: but it's just a change that I have seen, and 468 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 3: it's always getting better. So in thirty years you're going 469 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 3: to be talking about how it was strange thirty years 470 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 3: ago but now it's not right. 471 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of the things that's been interesting 472 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: for me to watch as a kid, you know, growing 473 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: up through the eighties and nineties and being part of 474 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: this community my whole life. You know, my dad's an artist, 475 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: Like I grew up in the queerest, most diverse, like 476 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: amazing culture, and so many people, especially folks who look 477 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: like us, have had to have this reckoning about privilege, 478 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: and you know, what white privilege looks like and how 479 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: our society was designed and who it was designed for. 480 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: And one of the things that you know, when we're 481 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: doing hard work, digging into hard subject matter, I also 482 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: like to try to look at what the positives are 483 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: that we can learn from. And one of the things 484 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: I feel the most grateful for about the way I 485 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: grew up is that I had the privilege of exposure. 486 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: You know, like my uncle Jeff and his husband Winston 487 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: were just like the most fabulous couple who raised me. 488 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: And Winston did drag is Diana Ross every Saturday night 489 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: here in LA and like, you know, I grew up 490 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: with this like fabulous black drag queen and I was like, 491 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: you're the coolest person I know. 492 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 4: And I think now about. 493 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: How blessed I was, because so many people who grow 494 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: up in more homogeneous communities don't grow up around people 495 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: of color or queer people, or you know, folks who 496 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: make art or do anything different than like what maybe 497 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: the town industry is. And I feel so lucky to 498 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: have been reared in this community because you know, in 499 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: my life, at all the stages of figuring out who 500 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: I am, my community, My parents' community are just like cool, yeah, 501 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: like we love you being more and more yourself, you know, right, 502 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: And and I think about how, to your point, the 503 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: more of us there are out in the world living 504 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: whatever our individual truths are, the more we can example 505 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: set for other people that they get to do the same. 506 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: That's how it works, and it's just so cool. 507 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you had that footage from the inauguration. 508 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 4: When you did your big announcement on the mic. Will 509 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 4: you tell people about that moment. 510 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite moments in your show. 511 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 3: I had done some fundraising work for the Bill Clinton, 512 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: the Clinton Gore campaign of ninety two, and this was 513 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 3: a big time. We had just had Republican we just 514 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 3: had Reagan into Bush. We'd had twelve years of Republican 515 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 3: suppression of AIDS, you know, and the gay community for 516 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 3: those twelve years were really pushing against that. And when 517 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 3: we finally had a candidate who would even say gay 518 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 3: and lesbian, it was groundbreaking to hear that on television 519 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 3: and he would talk about it. So the gay community 520 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: really got behind him, and you know, we changed, We 521 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 3: got out and did a lot of work, as we 522 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 3: still do to this day, we're a big force in 523 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 3: the voting block. Yeah, And so when I had done 524 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 3: some work for them, they invited me to the inauguration. 525 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 3: It was I got to, you know, sit and watch 526 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 3: him say, Jefferson, you know Clinton, William Jefferson, Clinton, that's it. 527 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 3: And so he does that. And that night there's all 528 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 3: the inaugural balls, and for the first time there were 529 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 3: three gay lesbian packs that really helped. And now they're 530 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: all kind of anyway, but back then there was three 531 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: of them. And so we had what was called the 532 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 3: Triangle Ball, and it was the Gay and Lesbian Ball, 533 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 3: and it was it was really fabulous. It was at 534 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 3: the Washington Press Club. So when I was up in 535 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 3: the balcony with Katie Lang and all the all the leaders, 536 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 3: Elizabeth Birch, all the you know, these past great LGBTQ 537 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 3: leaders up there in the balcony, someone had me a 538 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 3: microphone and I said, I hadn't planned on coming out, 539 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 3: or I have said something much more eloquent, but I said, 540 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 3: I I'm proud to I'm proud to say that I'm 541 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 3: proud to been a lesbian all my life. And it 542 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 3: was just a really weird way to say it. But 543 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 3: I came out and then it was at the press club. 544 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 3: So the next day it was in the newspapers. And 545 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 3: didn't have social media back then, so it didn't go boom. 546 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 3: It's slowly. Every tour I would do slowly. Reporters from 547 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 3: every town would put it in there paper, and it 548 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: just slowly. I talked about being That's all I talked 549 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 3: about for about five years. Was being gay? 550 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 4: Was it? Yeah? 551 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 3: But it was a great time and it did helped, 552 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 3: and it was I don't remember anything. 553 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a 554 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. I think about the 555 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: impact of your voice there. I think about what it 556 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: was like to see your family. It was the Rolling 557 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: Stone cover that you guys all did together, right with 558 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, I remember it as a kid being. 559 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 4: Like, whoa, this is so cool. 560 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: And it's interesting that you say that it was like 561 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: a slow moving growth of awareness, because you're right now. 562 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: With social media, it's like somebody can get a tidbit 563 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: run with it. You know, we know that false information 564 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: spreads fifteen hundred times faster on the Internet than the truth. 565 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,959 Speaker 1: I've certainly experienced my fair share of that. 566 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 3: That's never happened to you, has it? 567 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 1: Oh gee, it's not happening to me now or anything. 568 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 4: Oh what a wild time. 569 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: But it's such an interesting thing to watch the way 570 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: that it sort of bursts like a wildfire now, and 571 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: what a gorgeous thing that you got to have a 572 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: slower move. But I didn't think about the fact that 573 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: you feel like your life centered on your identity for 574 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: five years. 575 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 4: You were probably like, are. 576 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 3: We still talking about this exactly? But it actually gave 577 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 3: me an opportunity to kind of get used to and 578 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 3: perfect talking about being gay, because nobody had sat down 579 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 3: with newspapers and magazines and television showers and actually talked 580 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 3: about it. And if I was going to be this representative, 581 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 3: I wanted to feel comfortable with what I was saying 582 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 3: and be clear. And it gave me an opportunity, little 583 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 3: by little to grow and feel more confident in that. 584 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: Oh that's really cool. So I'm really curious about that, 585 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 1: because songwriting is storytelling. Your Broadway play is storytelling. It's 586 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: like a living photo album, retrospective, greatest hits, tour, Vaudeville's 587 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: show all rolled into one. I'm absolutely obsessed with that. 588 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: I've told everyone I know to go see it and 589 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: on top of my window being on Broadway right now, 590 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: you've penned this beautiful book talking to Angels. You tell 591 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: the story of your life, of this era we're currently 592 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: you know, twirling through of your journey, you know, with 593 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,439 Speaker 1: your ex wife Julie and having kids and moving into 594 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: this wonderful you know, finding your right relationship now experiences 595 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: with you know, mental health and psychedelics and all the 596 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: things loss love. 597 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 4: It's this big How how do you. 598 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: Decide as this public figure? And do you think this 599 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: period of five years you're talking about influenced your ability 600 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: to really dig into your story? Because I wonder how 601 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: you decide how much to share? 602 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 4: And do you view the. 603 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: Sharing as a as a gathering of this community you 604 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: get to talk to. Does it feel like a responsibility? 605 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: Does it feel like. 606 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 4: A torch to pass? 607 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 3: Like? 608 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 4: How do you think about this stuff? 609 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 3: Well, all of this is is my own choice. I 610 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 3: have a choice of how to how I'm going to 611 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 3: hold it myself. You know, I can't control what other 612 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 3: people think about it. I can control about how I 613 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 3: feel about it. So the h the actual you know, 614 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 3: uh talking about it is is a chance for me 615 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 3: to learn and I once I came out, it's kind 616 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 3: of like once you open up and say this is 617 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 3: the real me, you can't really close it back and go, 618 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 3: oh no, you can't see any more of that you. 619 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 3: And what it's what it has led me to be 620 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 3: is more comfortable with my life and my choices, where 621 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 3: I don't feel like I have to look like someone else, 622 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 3: act like someone else, make make music like someone else 623 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 3: because they're more popular or whatever, those things that we 624 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 3: compare ourselves to. You just realized, wow, I've got to 625 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 3: be just me right now, and I've got to be 626 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 3: okay with the choices I'm making first, so that when 627 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 3: I talk about them, I'm confident about it and what 628 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 3: other people think about it is none of my business. 629 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 3: So I just so I was able to then, when 630 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 3: I went through cancer, to speak truthfully about that and say, look, 631 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 3: and when I started smoking cannabis, people weren't talking about 632 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 3: that in the early two thousands, it was still that 633 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 3: was you know, again, we're getting thrown in ja over 634 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 3: that sort of thing. And to say, look, this is medicine. 635 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 3: This is medicine, and become an advocate for cannabis and 636 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 3: psychedelics and things and we still are you. But to 637 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 3: do that and feel it's all about how I feel. 638 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 3: If I'm waiting for other people to tell me if 639 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 3: it's okay or not, then I'm sunk. So and I'm grateful. 640 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 3: I'm grateful for those five years of talking about it, 641 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 3: getting the confidence and then moving through my life just 642 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 3: slowly and loving every choice that I've made and feeling 643 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 3: like I've done the best I can. 644 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: Oh, that's beautiful. 645 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 4: What a cool. 646 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: Place to reach again. Like the sort of stage I 647 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: find myself in is being in a space where I go, oh, 648 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of work. I've learned a lot 649 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: of lessons. I have found the greatest therapist, and I 650 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: am in the most integrity I have ever been in 651 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: And for the first time, other people's opinions don't really 652 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: bother me anymore, and I didn't know. 653 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 4: I'd ever get here. 654 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 3: If you can keep if you can keep that up, 655 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 3: that you'll be happier. Yeah, and you will start realizing 656 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 3: in the end, not in the end, I'm not at 657 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 3: the end, but as you get older, that being happy 658 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 3: is actually the most important thing. It is not what 659 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 3: you can't If you think you can suffer and strife 660 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 3: and suffer and suffer to where you'll have a happy 661 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 3: ending somehow it's you're just going to suffer. But if 662 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 3: you can go no, I'm making a choice to be 663 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 3: happy right now, and this feels good. If you can 664 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 3: keep doing that, Believe me, when you're sixty two and 665 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 3: talking to someone younger, you'll go, yeah, I made my 666 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 3: choices and I've had a very happy life and I'm 667 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 3: very happy about that. 668 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. So this way that you tell stories 669 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: when you think about it, you know, kind of looking back, 670 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: We've talked about this era of coming out that actually 671 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: was five years and it makes me laugh because you know, 672 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: they always say like it takes a decade to be 673 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: an overnight success, and I'm like, oh, it took you 674 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: five years for everybody to have heard the thing you 675 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: said five years before. And when you're when you're in 676 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,760 Speaker 1: that stage where to your point, you're touring the country 677 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: and the world and you're you know, nominated for awards 678 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: and winning them and selling crazy amounts of albums and 679 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,280 Speaker 1: you've you are like the rock and roller of our time. 680 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: How how were you able to figure out your life 681 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: in the midst of that? Because I know how hard 682 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: it can be to pick up and move for a show. 683 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: But usually I pick up and move somewhere and I 684 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: stay there for six months. I'm not like living in 685 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: a tour bus or on an airplane every night. And 686 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: and and you during this whole stage, you know, you 687 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: become a wife, you become a parent, as you said, 688 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: you battle breast cancer. I mean, there's so much happening. 689 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 4: How did you make sense of it all? 690 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 3: Well, life happens slowly, it really does. And in the 691 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 3: in the show and in the book, I talk about 692 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 3: uh having a heroic dose of cannabis where I overdosed 693 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 3: on edimals, you know, and it really basically blew my mind, 694 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 3: but it opened a thought. It opened more thought of Wow, 695 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 3: that took me out of the torture of what other 696 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 3: people think about me. See I in the nineties, in 697 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 3: the eighties and nineties, it was all I needed. I 698 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 3: needed to be on the cover Rolling Stone, I needed 699 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 3: to have a number one hit. I needed other people 700 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 3: to validate what I was doing. And then when I 701 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 3: you know, struggled and struggled and struggling, and it finally 702 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 3: got there and realized, wow, this is not making me happy. 703 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 3: This is just something I did. What makes me happy 704 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 3: is when I'm on stage loving what I'm doing, or 705 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 3: when I'm home with my kids and my family. Okay, 706 00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 3: well now my year now when I'm working, my year 707 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 3: is broken up into and my whole family knows is summertime. 708 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 3: Mom is going on Tour's that's what we do. And 709 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,919 Speaker 3: I love love playing the music that makes everything go away. 710 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 3: When I am on stage and there's an audience of 711 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 3: two thousand or two hundred thousand, you know, it doesn't matter. 712 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 3: It's always different. And those people are there to hear 713 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 3: the songs that they love and to have an experience 714 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 3: with me. That's golden. That's all I ever wanted. So 715 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 3: the traveling and the stuff, that's what we go through. 716 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 3: And when you talk about you know, you go somewhere 717 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 3: for six months, well you know you know how crews are, 718 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 3: you know how you know the driver is. You make friends, 719 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 3: You make your own family at that time. You know, 720 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 3: the person who works at the bar in the hotel 721 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 3: you're staying at, you know, becomes That's what life is 722 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 3: is those relations ships and you get put in that situation. 723 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 3: I have. My tour manager has been my tour manager 724 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 3: for thirty five years. He's just he's like a brother 725 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 3: to me. You know, my bandmates are our brothers to me. 726 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 3: I've got I've got beautiful sisters that work for me 727 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,439 Speaker 3: in you know, in production and go on the road 728 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 3: with me and and my lighting you know, designers, a 729 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 3: woman and we just you surround yourself with these people 730 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 3: and and you have life with them. Also my family, 731 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 3: you know, my you know, well not blood family, but 732 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 3: my family family, and you just you just realize that 733 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 3: that's what it is. It's not there's not something else 734 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 3: that I'd rather be doing, you know, and if there is, 735 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,720 Speaker 3: then I will do it. But you know, so you 736 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 3: make your life in what you're doing, and you know that, 737 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 3: you know you'll have friends that forever from the first 738 00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 3: production you ever did you. 739 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I Mean I was just with 740 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 1: one of my best girlfriends from my first job last 741 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: weekend and we were like, oh my god, our friendship's 742 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: old enough to vote, Like what's crazy? What a crazy 743 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 1: reality that is? You know, next year it'll be old 744 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: enough to order a beer at the bar. And it's 745 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: so cool. It's so so cool. So when you talk 746 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: about if there's something else you want to do You'll 747 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: do it? Was that did you have this feeling about 748 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: wanting to go and do Broadway? Because in a way, 749 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: your show is like a concert, and my god, I 750 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: mean you touched on it a minute ago. You know. 751 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: You have this bit in the show, the scene about 752 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: when you did this hero's dose, and I'm telling you, 753 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: we were laughing, we hit my girlfriends and I had 754 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: tears streaming down our face. Like you made it so 755 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: funny and also so educational and spiritual and illuminating and 756 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: all the things. There is so much packed into the retrospective. 757 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: How did you decide to go do Broadway? And was 758 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: it scary at all because you've been on the biggest 759 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: stages in the world or were you like, nah, I 760 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:06,280 Speaker 1: got it. 761 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 3: Well, the because it's so different because when I go 762 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 3: on stage with my band, I'm in one hundred percent 763 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 3: control no matter what happens, I'm in charge, and I 764 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 3: can I can tell my band to do anything. I 765 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 3: can do anything, and if an audience is sleepy, I 766 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 3: can say, Okay, let's we're going to play ballads and 767 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 3: stay you know, or we can you know, I can 768 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 3: change things on the fly, and that's what I do 769 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 3: and I love it. Broadway. You have to do it 770 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 3: exactly the same way every single time, and it's got that. 771 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 3: I have a certain amount of freedom because the show 772 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 3: is very conversational, and I chose not to like memorize 773 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 3: a whole thing. You know, I memorize the shape of 774 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 3: the show and what story I'm telling, but how I 775 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 3: tell it might be a little different with every audience. 776 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 3: I had to give myself that freedom, right cot Nuts. 777 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 3: But the Broadway dream I've I have loved and appreciated 778 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 3: and admired Broadway since I was a child watching you know, 779 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 3: Barbar Streis, and I was a huge fan of that 780 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 3: and and Godspell and these great musicals and Broadway. You 781 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 3: realize when you're in the music industry that, especially now, 782 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 3: you can have a small amount of talent with a 783 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:27,280 Speaker 3: lot of energy, and technically we can make you sound good. Well, 784 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 3: you can't do that on Broadway. It's live, it's live 785 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 3: every night. You have to bring it every night. You 786 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 3: have to be able to rise to this certain live 787 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 3: audience every single night. And so it's it is for 788 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 3: only the ridiculously talented, you know, Broadway is, and it 789 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 3: is it's very revered. The the talent, the just the 790 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 3: work that people do on Broadway is out of this world. 791 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 3: So I wanted to be part of that. I wanted 792 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 3: to create something I still do. I want to create 793 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,400 Speaker 3: something that that I won't be in. I want. I 794 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,399 Speaker 3: want to write something that I don't have to give 795 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 3: up every day, you know. And so my wife, who's 796 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 3: also a producer and writer and you know, amazing artist herself, 797 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 3: also loves Broadway. Her one of her best friends of 798 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 3: Joe Mantello, who directed Wicked, you know, so he's we're 799 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,719 Speaker 3: we are aware of the Broadway community very deeply, and 800 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 3: we when when we have thought about bringing something to 801 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,919 Speaker 3: Broadway for a long time. So a few years ago, 802 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 3: during the pandemic, when this all started to really come together, 803 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,880 Speaker 3: it was clear. When I was writing the book, I said, Okay, 804 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 3: I believe my life can be the art in this one. 805 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 3: You know this this I've done that with my songs before. 806 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,879 Speaker 3: I really I want to tell the story and I'm 807 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,959 Speaker 3: hopefully it is helpful and healing and inspiring. And that's 808 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 3: really my intention is to show people, you know, or 809 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 3: to just inspire people in that. 810 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 1: So you were fake hearing out the show while you 811 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: were writing the book. Oh yeah, Wow, what a cool 812 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 1: parallel path. 813 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and both of them came from conversations with my wife. 814 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,440 Speaker 3: I would we would have these conversation. We just started 815 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,400 Speaker 3: putting the voice memo on and saying, Okay, we're just 816 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 3: gonna record this, and I would just I would sit. 817 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 3: I mean, it was the pandemic. We didn't have anything 818 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 3: to do. I would just sit and and just tell 819 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 3: stories about my past. And we just recorded it all 820 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 3: and then just started to you know, chisel it down, 821 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 3: and we had to leave a lot out. There's a 822 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 3: lot that happened in my life that we had to 823 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 3: just you know, condense it. Even the opening show you 824 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 3: saw was still a little large. We've we've sort of 825 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 3: condensed it down, but really yeah, you know, we're always 826 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:47,720 Speaker 3: working on making it better. 827 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and now for our sponsors. And one of the 828 00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: things you touch on, you know obviously, such as size 829 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 1: event in the show, and you are so open in 830 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: the book. And while I'm always very hesitant to just 831 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,360 Speaker 1: sort of make people repeat their hardest things, one of 832 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,759 Speaker 1: the things that I found the most inspiring watching the 833 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 1: show and subsequently reading about it is the purpose that 834 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,919 Speaker 1: you've delivered for so many people out of personal pain. 835 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,799 Speaker 1: You talk about your son passing at twenty one. He 836 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: likes so many people you know, sadly in our country, 837 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: was affected by opioid addiction, and you share his story 838 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:45,160 Speaker 1: so honestly, you know, it's brave, I believe to talk 839 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:50,359 Speaker 1: about the pain and the awful things that came out 840 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,319 Speaker 1: of that that were said. You know, between you and 841 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 1: your ex, the suffering obviously of losing a child, and 842 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 1: you manage to transmute that into this incredible organization and 843 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: activism for families who are suffering. Is it hard to 844 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 1: talk about? Does talking about him allow him to stay 845 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: with you? 846 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 4: Is it both? 847 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,560 Speaker 3: I having had the experience of coming out as a 848 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 3: as a lesbian and having the experience of having breast 849 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 3: cancer and being open and honest about it, and being 850 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 3: open and honest about psychedelic use and stuff. When my 851 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 3: son died, I realized if I if I don't put 852 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 3: it out and speak about how I'm walking through it, 853 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,759 Speaker 3: I do a disservice to myself and what it has 854 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 3: helped me. It helped me organize it in my head 855 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,600 Speaker 3: and in my heart so that it doesn't weigh heavy 856 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 3: every night. Every night at that show, I say my 857 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,399 Speaker 3: son would want me to be every single and that 858 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,800 Speaker 3: heals me. Now, do I want to do this show 859 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,439 Speaker 3: forever and ever? No, I'm only going to do it. 860 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 3: I've got five more shows, you know, and I'll probably 861 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,160 Speaker 3: lay it down for a while and let it sit 862 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,720 Speaker 3: because it has done the job of healing that I 863 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 3: was looking for. To be open and honest, to do 864 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 3: this in front of people, to it was the same 865 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,360 Speaker 3: as getting on stage when I was bald. You just 866 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,359 Speaker 3: the thing that scares you the most. If you can 867 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 3: with love in your heart, if you can walk toward 868 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,960 Speaker 3: it and then slowly go through it, it can be 869 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:49,359 Speaker 3: very very healing, and hopefully it can help others, you know. 870 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,319 Speaker 3: But it's only for me every single night saying my 871 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 3: son would want me to be happy, he would want 872 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,680 Speaker 3: me to know my happiness cannot cause anyone else pain. 873 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,480 Speaker 3: Saying that every single night, it's gotten easier for me 874 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,880 Speaker 3: to say it. It's easier for me to talk about 875 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,880 Speaker 3: it now with you. And so that's because I believe it, 876 00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,120 Speaker 3: Because I truly believe it, that I can really line 877 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,400 Speaker 3: up with that and show people that no, no, no, 878 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:14,879 Speaker 3: I'm not going to my life's not going to end 879 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 3: because my son's choices. You know, I loved him, and 880 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 3: yes it was devastating and I grieved, and I'm moving 881 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:27,560 Speaker 3: through it, and my life is still a beautiful life. 882 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,000 Speaker 3: I have three incredible children that bring me so much joy. 883 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,440 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going to let this we we 884 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 3: speak of him lovingly constantly, and I'm hopefully showing them 885 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,319 Speaker 3: how to hold it also and not let it be 886 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,359 Speaker 3: something that brings you down. 887 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 1: Right. Well, I think to set that example is so 888 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: powerful that yes, suffering or loss can and will change you, 889 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:03,520 Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to take over every part of you. 890 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,720 Speaker 1: You deserve joy, your children deserve joy, any of us, 891 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 1: I think, especially post pandemic. You know, the people have 892 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,239 Speaker 1: been talking about I listened to this psychologist talk about 893 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:15,960 Speaker 1: how this has been the summer. They're calling it the 894 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,479 Speaker 1: summer of the Great Divorce, like akin to the Great 895 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,560 Speaker 1: Depression when the whole economy collapsed. There is now a 896 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: sort of psychological collapse of these systems or structures or 897 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: relationships that aren't serving people. And I think part of 898 00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 1: that has to be because we lived through this pandemic 899 00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 1: and millions of people around the world died, and we 900 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:48,280 Speaker 1: have seen this unprecedented loss for folks suffering from opioid addiction. 901 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,879 Speaker 1: We are seeing unprecedented loss and conflict zones around the world, 902 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: And I think, how dare we if we're lucky enough 903 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,400 Speaker 1: to still be here, not pursue our joy and not 904 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,400 Speaker 1: make art and not gather people for song? How dare we? 905 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,880 Speaker 1: Because that's why we're alive. In a way, I think 906 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:15,840 Speaker 1: it has to make you more committed to really honoring 907 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,719 Speaker 1: the potential for your own delight. If you got to 908 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,480 Speaker 1: stay yeah. 909 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 3: And you just do it every single day, walk out 910 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,760 Speaker 3: every day, don't ever get caught up in past or future. 911 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,920 Speaker 3: That's all that's that'll come, but it will always feel 912 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 3: like now now where we're at. And so if you 913 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,680 Speaker 3: walk that every day, if you just every moment make 914 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 3: it just a little more of that, you will see 915 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:48,759 Speaker 3: that momentum grow and it's you will be able to 916 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,080 Speaker 3: look at the world around us and understand that everyone's 917 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,080 Speaker 3: going through something and that death is a for sure 918 00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,279 Speaker 3: thing for each and every one of us and it 919 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,600 Speaker 3: comes differently, and to hold it and go yeah, yeah, yeah, 920 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,120 Speaker 3: that's coming. But right now I'm not dying. Right now, 921 00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,640 Speaker 3: I'm right now, I'm alive and if I'm happy, I 922 00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,200 Speaker 3: will be healthy and living longer. 923 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:17,880 Speaker 1: On to take your liveness and an offer, as you said, 924 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,799 Speaker 1: as you always have your story as it evolves to 925 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,960 Speaker 1: people you know through your show through the book. You 926 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,920 Speaker 1: mentioned that the show did what it needed to do 927 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,920 Speaker 1: for you, because I was going to ask if you 928 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,040 Speaker 1: were going to extend, because so many people who knew 929 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: I was interviewing with you today asked me to ask you. 930 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,520 Speaker 1: But I get that when you feel ready to be 931 00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,680 Speaker 1: done with something, when it served its purpose. So the 932 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,719 Speaker 1: show is going to close and the book is out 933 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:48,359 Speaker 1: in the world. What feels like it's next for you? 934 00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 1: How are you feeling sort of opening your arms to 935 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:52,000 Speaker 1: all of this. 936 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,520 Speaker 3: I can't wait to get back on stage and just 937 00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 3: start doing the thing that I love. We just yesterday 938 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,239 Speaker 3: to day our our spring tour went on sale. I've 939 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,799 Speaker 3: got planned. Yeah, it'll be California, and I think I'm 940 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,560 Speaker 3: doing a little down in Florida, kind of west coast, 941 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,239 Speaker 3: all the way up into Oregon and uh Washington and 942 00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,680 Speaker 3: and and I love that so much. I love my band, 943 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 3: I love my music. I love the people that love 944 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 3: my music. I'm going to tour all summer, probably a 945 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 3: little bit into the fall, and it's just that is 946 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:34,400 Speaker 3: my happy place. My family knows it. Every it's just hm, 947 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,240 Speaker 3: it's so healing it. And then what will happen is 948 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 3: towards the end of next year, I'll get all antsy, 949 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,480 Speaker 3: like what's gonna what am I gonna do now? And 950 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,440 Speaker 3: and and that's the joy of it is just you 951 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,600 Speaker 3: just keep putting that in front of you. I should 952 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,480 Speaker 3: mention I did something also last year. I did a 953 00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,160 Speaker 3: concert at a women's penitentiary in Kansas, where I'm from, 954 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,440 Speaker 3: and we have filmed that and it's a beautiful, moving, 955 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:04,840 Speaker 3: touching documentary that will be out in April on Paramount Plus. 956 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,280 Speaker 3: It's called I'm Not Broken. So that's going to be 957 00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,880 Speaker 3: out and that's going to hopefully kind of lift the 958 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,040 Speaker 3: tour up a little bit because people because it's a 959 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,840 Speaker 3: live concert video in a prison, it's really really moving 960 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,520 Speaker 3: and we talked to a few women there and it's 961 00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:26,240 Speaker 3: really enlightening on what women are going through and what 962 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 3: people are doing now to think about crime and punishment differently, 963 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,280 Speaker 3: in coarsration differently, and how we can actually help just 964 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:36,400 Speaker 3: lock people up. 965 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,960 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. Yeah, I've been lucky enough to do some 966 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 1: prison visits with the Anti Recidivism Coalition. There you go, 967 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,760 Speaker 1: and yeah, man, you just realize like to sit and 968 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,560 Speaker 1: listen to people's stories and to bring them art can 969 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,240 Speaker 1: it's always the thing that heals. Yeah, I can't wait 970 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,240 Speaker 1: to see it. That's really exciting. 971 00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:57,919 Speaker 3: That too. 972 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,000 Speaker 1: Yes, please, Oh my gosh, I'm coming. And I was 973 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:01,360 Speaker 1: going to say I'm coming to the concert. 974 00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 4: Get ready. I'll just I'll be screaming my head off. 975 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:05,520 Speaker 1: I can't for you. 976 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:06,840 Speaker 3: West coast or East coast. 977 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm back and forth, but I'm primarily West coast. 978 00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:11,440 Speaker 3: Okay, good, me too. 979 00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,480 Speaker 1: So I'm between LA and New York a lot, but 980 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:14,720 Speaker 1: LA is technically home. 981 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:15,680 Speaker 3: Good. 982 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,080 Speaker 4: Have you liked living in New York all all through 983 00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:20,120 Speaker 4: the fall? Has been great? 984 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:26,440 Speaker 3: That's an interesting question. I'm here with my two daughters 985 00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:31,040 Speaker 3: and my wife, and so that's great. I'm a Midwestern, 986 00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,800 Speaker 3: a California girl, and I like my space and there's 987 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:35,880 Speaker 3: just one space in New York City. I'm up on 988 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 3: the Upper east Side, which is nice and you know, 989 00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 3: comparatively more space than most. But man, there's just a 990 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,919 Speaker 3: lot of people here and it is constantly moving. And 991 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 3: I missed the sun even when it's out. I don't 992 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,040 Speaker 3: always get to see it. Yeah, yeah, and I'm really 993 00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 3: looking forward to just I have a huge yard and 994 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,760 Speaker 3: my home California is just sent in. Yeah. But New 995 01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:08,680 Speaker 3: Yorkers have been wonderful and I've enjoyed the experience very much. 996 01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,920 Speaker 3: I do not regret it at all. I'm really looking 997 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:11,440 Speaker 3: forward to it. 998 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh well, we can't wait to get you back here. 999 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,840 Speaker 1: I feel the same anytime I go on location. I 1000 01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,000 Speaker 1: come home. I have this tree in my backyard that 1001 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, you're you're a fellow journey woman. Is like 1002 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,600 Speaker 1: it's such a sacred thing to lay under and have 1003 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,880 Speaker 1: an experience. And every time I get home, I walk 1004 01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,480 Speaker 1: in my backyard and literally hug my tree. 1005 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,120 Speaker 3: Yes we are, Yes, Yeah, I know, I know I 1006 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 3: missed that nature. I missed that, Kimmy. I'm ready for 1007 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,120 Speaker 3: some of that, yes yeah. 1008 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I love it. Thank you so much. I 1009 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,720 Speaker 1: know that for everybody who's at home listening, they're they're 1010 01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:49,840 Speaker 1: going to go and you know, turn on one of 1011 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,120 Speaker 1: their favorite records of yours and enjoy themselves while they 1012 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,760 Speaker 1: order this book that is so profoundly beautiful. And I 1013 01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:00,640 Speaker 1: just really want to thank you for the way you've 1014 01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,520 Speaker 1: chosen to share with us because I think courage is 1015 01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:07,200 Speaker 1: contagious and when people tell the truth, it inspires other 1016 01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,160 Speaker 1: people to do the same. Thank you. 1017 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,960 Speaker 3: I appreciate the best on your journey, my friend. Okay, 1018 01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 3: thank you. What other people say about you is none 1019 01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:17,440 Speaker 3: of your business. 1020 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:22,760 Speaker 1: You be indeed, I appreciate it. And yeah, please let 1021 01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,360 Speaker 1: me know if we can hang when you get home. 1022 01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: I'd love to get to do that. 1023 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 3: Plan on Okay, people definitely do that. Thank you. 1024 01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your day, honey. 1025 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:40,160 Speaker 4: Oye bye bye.