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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: This series includes content that may not be suitable for

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Speaker 2: all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously, on Valley of Shadows, we.

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Speaker 3: Would get the door open through our informants and then

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Speaker 3: pass that information on the Larry and then he'd try

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Speaker 3: to put the homicide investigation together.

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Speaker 4: He said that he received information that Ingles was a

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Speaker 4: dirty cop, and he assisted Tom with his mess sales

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Speaker 4: and his meth labs.

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Speaker 3: Certain major players were never touched by Deputy Ingles, and

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Speaker 3: that's how we came up with the name untouchables.

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Speaker 5: The FBI has a tap on the phone deep days

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Speaker 5: launch from the hull to leave a message.

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Speaker 2: At the tone, and I'll call you back with a

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Speaker 2: phone that's not my own.

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Speaker 4: And they said, hey, Larry, were ordered to go out

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Speaker 4: here everything you get in the case.

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Speaker 3: When I got fired, Larry called me.

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Speaker 6: He goes, I'll be right there, just hanging there.

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Speaker 3: Him and I went into the Buffalo business together, and

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Speaker 3: you never do business with friends. Waiting didn't see eye

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Speaker 3: to eye, and he just split. And that was into that.

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Speaker 7: The stories just kind of like wormed its way into

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Speaker 7: my brain to where as soon as I go to sleep,

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Speaker 7: I started dreaming about it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I feel that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One morning, after a year of reporting this story, Betsy

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Speaker 1: calls me not to game plan or figure out logistics,

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Speaker 1: just to talk.

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Speaker 7: So, yeah, I'm like working twenty four hours day.

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Speaker 6: Pretty yeah, that's what it feels like.

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Speaker 7: But I actually I had a dream last night and

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Speaker 7: you were in.

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Speaker 2: It, okay, And we were.

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Speaker 7: In our favorite place, the Devil's Punchable, and we're like

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Speaker 7: jogging on its trails like we're ultra marathons or something,

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Speaker 7: and so basically a nightmare, okay, yes, a total nightmare.

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Speaker 7: Leading the pack is John Auja, and like we can

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Speaker 7: just see the back of his head and his backpack

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Speaker 7: that he ran with, and he rounds a corner and

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Speaker 7: we lose track of him and like keep running, keep running,

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Speaker 7: keep running, and can't we can't catch up. And then

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Speaker 7: as we're finishing the cores, coming back around to where

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Speaker 7: we started, there's no finish line, so it just starts over.

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Speaker 7: There's no end to it, like we're fucking Sissyphus rolling

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Speaker 7: the stone up the hill, but instead we're chasing after

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Speaker 7: this man.

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Speaker 4: Dude.

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Speaker 1: I feel this so hard because I feel like if

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Speaker 1: we could just spend three more months reporting that you

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Speaker 1: have anything, could find that one person or that one

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Speaker 1: piece of evidence that ties it all together or like

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Speaker 1: verifiably disproves it so we can put it to bed.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I think of like some of those

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Speaker 1: informants we've reached out to who have said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll talk to you guys and then ghost us, Like,

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Speaker 1: what if one of them changes their mind, maybe that

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Speaker 1: will be the key. Maybe all these Sheriff's Department people

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Speaker 1: who we've spoken with off the record, if they would

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Speaker 1: change their mind and decide to open up, the resolution

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Speaker 1: to this seems so close, But then it's just like unattainable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Realizing it's just kind of this narrative that's kind of

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Speaker 2: on loop.

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Speaker 1: The store unraveled in stages with help from our different guides.

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Speaker 1: There's Captain Mike Bower's mission to disprove the Sheriff's Department

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Speaker 1: suicide narrative, Homicide Detective Larry Brandenberg's murder investigation, and narco

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Speaker 1: Detective Darren Hagers fight to expose what he sees as

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Speaker 1: a cover up by the LASD. And now we find

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Speaker 1: ourselves in their shoes in that our lives have become

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Speaker 1: consumed by the auj case, a compulsive need to find

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Speaker 1: out what happened, and an inability to quite get there.

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Speaker 1: On a small scale, we understand what these retired detectives,

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Speaker 1: and of course Aujy's loved ones, have endured for decades,

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Speaker 1: the feeling of being trapped between two endings, one in

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Speaker 1: which the missing puzzle piece finally surfaces and another in

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Speaker 1: which it never does. When we first started reporting this story,

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Speaker 1: we set out to explore the claim that the La

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department did a half assed investigation for its

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Speaker 1: missing deputy. Little did we know that would lead us

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Speaker 1: into a world of meth manufacturing, drug informants, outlaw biker gangs,

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Speaker 1: dirty cops, mythic monsters, a complicated layer cake of criminal investigations,

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Speaker 1: a heated courtroom battle, and possibly a large scale cover up.

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Speaker 1: We've assembled the information we've dug up into an account

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Speaker 1: of what might have happened, but the persistent uncertainty surrounding

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Speaker 1: the case makes it that much harder to walk away.

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Speaker 1: So we find ourselves stuck in a holding pattern looking

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Speaker 1: for answers, and then, out of the blue, Betsy gets

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Speaker 1: a voicemail from homicide detective Larry Brandenburg.

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Speaker 4: Hello, Betsy, just as Larry Brandenberg. If you give me

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Speaker 4: in Hagar's number, or give him my number if you're

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Speaker 4: not comfortable doing that. Kim and I were old friends.

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Speaker 4: We haven't been for years, but I think he's signed

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Speaker 4: him and I talked again.

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Speaker 1: It's been more than a decade since Larry Brandenburg and

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Speaker 1: Darren Hager have seen each other. The two started their

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Speaker 1: Buffalo farm back in the early two thousands. After Hagar

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Speaker 1: was fired. They tended to hert a bison, made jerky,

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Speaker 1: and even opened a bar where they could sling buffalo burgers.

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Speaker 1: But after a few years, their business went south, as

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Speaker 1: did their friendship. The last time they saw each other

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Speaker 1: was when Brandenburg testified at Hager's trial in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 1: But then we show up and start asking questions that

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Speaker 1: forced the detectives to take another look at the case

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Speaker 1: that won't go away. So when Brandenburg asks for Hagar's number,

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Speaker 1: we give it to him and cross our fingers that

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Speaker 1: they make amends. Because this is one mute a triangle

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Speaker 1: of a story, and maybe, just maybe a much needed

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Speaker 1: reunion between old friends could help all of us find

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Speaker 1: our way out.

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Speaker 2: I'm Haley Fox, I'm Betsy Shepherd and this is Valley

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Speaker 2: of Shadows, Episode eight. The finish line. We're in the

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Speaker 2: car again on our way to Darren Hager's house. This

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Speaker 2: time it's the Chaperona Detective reunion.

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Speaker 1: We know the history of these two guys. They have

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Speaker 1: been through the Ringer together.

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Speaker 2: And have a bond that specifically started over this case.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're like matchmakers.

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Speaker 1: We're straight up. Yenta's here? Who is ya ya from?

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Speaker 1: On the roof? Matchmaker Baker, make me a match for

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Speaker 1: the match makers.

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Speaker 2: Brandonburg did end up calling Hagar, who was happy to

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Speaker 2: hear from him, and the two main plans to meet

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Speaker 2: up in person, so naturally we invited ourselves along for

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Speaker 2: the ride. We pull up to Hagar's house right before

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Speaker 2: Brandenburg gets there. Where how are you guys?

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Speaker 4: See if it's a little cold, man good, I'll let you.

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Speaker 4: Let's help you.

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Speaker 6: Did you dye your hair? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I did?

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Speaker 4: I thought it would look better.

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Speaker 2: Randonburg takes it in stride when Hagar talks shit about

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Speaker 2: his white head of hair.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I guess it's been quite a while, has.

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Speaker 2: He The band's back together?

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Speaker 4: So to you, I'm on in Hi morning.

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Speaker 6: You remember the girl.

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Speaker 2: Right, Hagar and Brandenburg settle in exchanging their version of

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Speaker 2: pleasantries coffee.

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Speaker 4: Or whatever you want.

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Speaker 2: I'll have a cup.

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Speaker 3: Of fun, yeah, when you're ready, or something a little healthier.

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Speaker 2: The two swap stories about their horseshoers, talk about what

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Speaker 2: they did on a recent snow day act, and bring

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Speaker 2: each other up to speed on their personal lives.

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Speaker 4: Hou's a family, everybody's good. Got a bunch of grandkids, now.

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Speaker 6: No kidding.

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Speaker 2: After disbanding their Buffalo operation, Hager got into cattle ranching

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Speaker 2: and Brandenburg stuck with law enforcement. He retired from the

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Speaker 2: LASD and now works for a small town police department,

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Speaker 2: consulting on homicides and cold cases. Which is really why

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Speaker 2: we're here. We love the warm and fuzzies of this

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Speaker 2: rekindled friendship, but we've come to discuss the AUJ case.

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Speaker 4: I had kind of let this thing go for years. Really,

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Speaker 4: I just gave up figure and these ta was killed

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Speaker 4: and and that they don't care.

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Speaker 2: Brandenburg and Hager slipped back into their old dynamic and

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Speaker 2: start rehashing key evidence in the AUJ case, like the

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Speaker 2: discovery of Rick Carrol's meth lab just two miles from

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Speaker 2: the punch bowl and all of the informants who've implicated

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Speaker 2: Tom Hinkle, the Vogo Spikers, and Deputy Rick Angles in

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Speaker 2: John Aujay's disappearance.

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Speaker 4: You've got the timeframe dust you here run shot. It

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Speaker 4: all fits. It's not rocket science at all. And this

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Speaker 4: wasn't a plan murder. This shit just happened. He was

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Speaker 4: in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Speaker 2: The men discuss how differently things would have shaken out

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Speaker 2: if the Department hadn't stopped Brandenburg from investigating Angles.

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Speaker 4: They would have let me put the tracker on his car,

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Speaker 4: got all his bank records and phone records and all

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Speaker 4: those dope people. We would have had him dead. The

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Speaker 4: rights and I warrant would have produced all that evidence on.

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Speaker 6: Me, or it could have cleared down.

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Speaker 4: And that was my premise.

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Speaker 2: There are a number of loose ends in the auj case.

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Speaker 2: Nearly any detail could pan out to become the thing

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Speaker 2: that breaks it wide open, like this one, an internal

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Speaker 2: email written by Hagar's supervisor during Operation Silent Thunder. Randenburg's

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Speaker 2: never seen it, so we asked Hagar to read it aloud.

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Speaker 3: The task force just obtained phone record for two years

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Speaker 3: ago at the time of Deputy Adj's disappearance. For several

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Speaker 3: days following the disappearance, Deputy Angles and Tom Hinkle made

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Speaker 3: numerous calls in the same pager.

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Speaker 4: I mean not a little. Wasn't that very troubling to anyone?

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Speaker 4: A deputy Sheriff's calling the same pager several times?

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Speaker 2: Is is no good that number Angles in Hinkle were paging.

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Speaker 2: Could have been the key that unlocked the case, but

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Speaker 2: it was never identified as far as we know, and

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Speaker 2: it's either been lost or buried over time. It's just

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Speaker 2: one of many things that slipped through the cracks when

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Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department stamped out the Auja investigation.

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Speaker 3: What got these guys that cover so much stuff up

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Speaker 3: and to lie like they lied?

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Speaker 6: I don't cover up Adjay.

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Speaker 4: I don't know because they weren't like that. Sheriff's Homicide

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Speaker 4: had this great reputation we did, and our word was gospel.

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Speaker 4: It was especially back in the end days.

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Speaker 2: Lasd Homicide appeared to turn a blind eye to Angle's

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Speaker 2: potential involvement in Auj's nineteen ninety eight disappearance, but eight

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Speaker 2: years later, when two people are shot and killed in

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Speaker 2: Deputy Angle's home with Angle's gun, it seems like the

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Speaker 2: department would have to finally investigate him.

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Speaker 1: One of the things be going on, you guys, So

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Speaker 1: look up.

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Speaker 8: What's the This is the autopsy for Jennifer Starrosley.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Jennifer Vori Starossley and her dad, Lee Vory's are

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Speaker 1: found dead at Rick Engle's house on September twenty third,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, just after three pm, when two

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Speaker 1: gunshots are fired, leaving the twenty seven year old woman

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Speaker 1: and her father with fatal gunshot wounds to the head.

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Speaker 1: Angles calls nine one one and a fleet of responders

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Speaker 1: to send on his home. There's cherries and berries everywhere, paramedics, LASD,

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Speaker 1: deputies and detectives, a coroner, and then it's all quietly

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Speaker 1: wrapped up. The two deaths are ruled suicides. The Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: Department issues no public statement on the incident. The few

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Speaker 1: details that do trickle out are inconsistent, so much so

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Speaker 1: that the local paper, the Antelope Valley Press, puts out

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Speaker 1: a story about it, explaining that although they don't usually

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Speaker 1: publish details about suicide, they're making an exception in this

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Speaker 1: case because these deaths occurred in a peace officer's home.

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Speaker 1: And there were conflicting accounts of what happened. According to

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Speaker 1: Rick Angles, Jennifer grabbed his thirty eight revolver and ran

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Speaker 1: into the bathroom, where she fatally shot herself, and then

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Speaker 1: Lee ran into the bathroom and shot himself after seeing

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Speaker 1: his daughter dead on the floor. But official reports call

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Speaker 1: into question some key details of Angle's account. And this

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Speaker 1: is the other reason we're here at Darren Hager's house

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Speaker 1: because we finally got our hands on the coroner's reports

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Speaker 1: for the two fatalities.

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Speaker 3: What's the coroner's case number on that two thousand and

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Speaker 3: six zero seven three six y one.

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Speaker 4: That's her.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Vori Strassley was an elementary school teacher from Idaho

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Speaker 1: and had recently been struggling with postpartum depression. Lee Vori's

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Speaker 1: lived in California and had known Rick Engles and his

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Speaker 1: wife Lynn for over thirty years. Lee brought his daughter

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Speaker 1: to stay at the Angle's home near the punch Bowl

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Speaker 1: so Jennifer could recuperate out there. But that's not what happened.

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Speaker 4: Why does she have access to a gun?

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Speaker 5: Here?

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Speaker 6: King goes off dated again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's negligence if nothing else.

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Speaker 1: Because if Jennifer was in such a bad way, why

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Speaker 1: would Angles leave the gun in a place where she

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Speaker 1: could grab it? And how did Lee wind up in

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Speaker 1: that bathroom?

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Speaker 4: I mean, if it was a righteous suicide, you wouldn't

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Speaker 4: let your best friend go see his daughter like that.

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Speaker 4: You just wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: Brandenburg has other questions like why was Lee's body moved

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Speaker 1: from the bathroom into the kitchen before investigators arrived, and

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Speaker 1: why did it take the investigators so long to bring

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Speaker 1: in the coroner.

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Speaker 4: The thing is the hours. This happened at three corner

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Speaker 4: to get there at all, almost midnight, that's nine hours.

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Speaker 6: I don't even know where to go. It's making my

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Speaker 6: stomach just I feel like throwing up.

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Speaker 1: Brandenburg says that when detectives are dispatched to the scene

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Speaker 1: of a death, they typically conduct their investigation and call

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Speaker 1: in the coroner when they're done. If the incident is

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Speaker 1: a clearcut suicide, this whole process happens pretty quickly, so

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Speaker 1: the nine hour gap is unusual, especially since there were

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Speaker 1: only two people on scene to interview Rick and Lynn Angles.

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Speaker 1: So the retired bulldog reasons that maybe homicide investigators weren't

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Speaker 1: totally sold on the suicide narrative at first, and as

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Speaker 1: we start looking closer at the coroner's reports, we find

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Speaker 1: more reason to question Rick Angle's account. Included in these

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Speaker 1: reports are two main documents. There's the investigator's narrative, written

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Speaker 1: by a coroner's investigator. It tells the story of the

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Speaker 1: events leading up to and surrounding the deaths. It's based

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Speaker 1: on information reported by responding LASD detectives. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the autopsy, which is the evaluation of the body post mortem.

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Speaker 1: It's done by a doctor, usually at the morgue, to

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Speaker 1: determine the official cause of death. Typically these two documents

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Speaker 1: are complementary. They work together to establish the big picture,

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Speaker 1: but in the Voris Jurasi case, these reports describe different

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Speaker 1: versions of the same event.

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Speaker 4: I've looked at a lot of dead people. I probably

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Speaker 4: investigated two hundred homicides in my career, and how many

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Speaker 4: suicides way more. This thing stinks, We should warn you.

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Speaker 1: The details from these reports are pretty graphic, but they're

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Speaker 1: crucial for fact checking Angel's story. The investigator's narrative states

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Speaker 1: that Jennifer was killed by a through and through shot,

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Speaker 1: that the bullet entered through her mouth and exited the

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Speaker 1: base of her skull, a description that supports the conclusion

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Speaker 1: that she died by suicide.

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Speaker 4: He assumed she shot herself in the mouth in this

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Speaker 4: entry wound is actually he's calling an exit Wound's not

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Speaker 4: because it's clearly an entry wool because the bullet's up

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Speaker 4: here in her skulls fracture.

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Speaker 3: So basically NGOs goes, heye, they just shot themselves and

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Speaker 3: go oh, so it must be through the mouth and

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Speaker 3: out the back of the neck.

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Speaker 1: But according to the autopsy, based on a thoroughmedical analysis

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Speaker 1: of the body, the bullet that killed Jennifer actually entered

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Speaker 1: through the back of her head, near where the base

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Speaker 1: of her skull meets her neck. Brandenburg believes the autopsy

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Speaker 1: and the doctor who conducted it.

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Speaker 4: This is the fucking pathologist. This is accurate. This is not.

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Speaker 1: That pathologist recovered bullet fragments from Jennifer's head.

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Speaker 6: Well, it says the bullet was found on the brain. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: there's no exit, so it never came out.

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Speaker 1: So the coroner concludes that one inch gunshot wound found

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Speaker 1: at the base of Jennifer's skull. That was where the

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Speaker 1: bullet entered her body and then traveled up and got

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Speaker 1: lodged in her brain, but that kind of shot would

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Speaker 1: be hard to self inflict. Brandenburg holds his hand like

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Speaker 1: a makeshift gun, trying to figure out how Jennifer could

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Speaker 1: have pulled that off.

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Speaker 4: This is so awkward.

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Speaker 6: How are you going to get a trajectory to go up?

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Speaker 6: That's what I just did.

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Speaker 4: How are you going to do that?

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Speaker 6: That's a pretty good shot.

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Speaker 1: Nevertheless, a county medical examiner rules the death suicides. This

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Speaker 1: conclusion seems to be largely based on statements made by

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Speaker 1: Rick and Lynn Angles and the fact that gun residue

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Speaker 1: was found on the victim's hands. As soon as investigators

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Speaker 1: arrive at their home, Lynn and Rick Engles ask that

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Speaker 1: their hands be tested for gunshot residue or GSR.

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Speaker 6: They both stated to everybody that got there, we.

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Speaker 4: Want to why would you say that?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can understand a deputy going, oh man,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna investigation this that and yeah, there am I'm nervous.

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Speaker 6: I know how this thing works.

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Speaker 4: But dere if it's a righteous suicide.

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Speaker 6: Debut, you're not just playing.

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Speaker 4: I know You're not even gonna think that way. You're gonna,

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Speaker 4: first of all, you're going to be very upset that

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Speaker 4: my lifelong friend daughter killed herself. Now my buddy killed

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Speaker 4: himself in my house with my fucking gun.

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Speaker 1: To Brandenburg, it seems fishy that the angle's first concern

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Speaker 1: is the GSR test. Plus, he says a GSR test

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Speaker 1: doesn't prove innocence because gun residue can easily be washed off.

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Speaker 4: And of course they washed their fucking hands. But why

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Speaker 4: would you even make that statement. I think Ingles killed her?

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Speaker 6: You think I think it if you get.

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Speaker 4: Secured, and then he had to kill the fucking dad too.

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Speaker 1: We've spent a lot of time talking with Brandenburg and Hager,

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Speaker 1: discussing all sorts of violent and horrific crimes, but this

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Speaker 1: intensity in their voices kind of stopped me in my tracks.

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Speaker 1: And then I realize why they're so upset, because they

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Speaker 1: think these tragedies could have been avoided. If the Department

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Speaker 1: had just let them investigate Aujay's disappearance, this thing would.

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Speaker 4: Have been over a long time ago, and I think

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Speaker 4: Rick Ingles would have been in jail and these two

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Speaker 4: people might still be alive. No, I'm ready for a drink.

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Speaker 1: Dere good fucker, Betsy, and I leave Hager's house with

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Speaker 1: a pretty clear idea of what needs to happen next.

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Speaker 1: There's a few key phone calls left to make and

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Speaker 1: leads to chase down. But first we hear from someone

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Speaker 1: who knew not only Jennifer Vory strassly and leave Vory's,

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Speaker 1: but Rick Engles, and this person says there were problems

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Speaker 1: with the suicide story from the start.

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Speaker 2: There are different theories of what happened the day that

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00:22:27,731 --> 00:22:31,971
Speaker 2: Jennifer Vori Starosi and Lee Vori's died at Rick Engle's house.

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Speaker 2: There's the straightforward explanation that things unfolded exactly as Angles

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Speaker 2: and his wife say they did, but there's also a

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Speaker 2: long standing rumor that something untoward had gone on between

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Speaker 2: Angles and the young woman and that this relationship ended

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Speaker 2: in violence. We have to emphasize there's no proof of this,

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Speaker 2: but a conversation I have with someone who knows Angles

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Speaker 2: and the victims makes me wonder. So I just talked

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Speaker 2: to a family member of Lee Roy's and Jennifer Staiosley.

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Speaker 2: I'm on the phone with Haley bringing her up to

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Speaker 2: speed on what I heard from this family member who

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Speaker 2: didn't want to be named. They said to me that

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Speaker 2: their family very much believes that Angles murdered the two

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Speaker 2: of them and lied about the suicide. And that's not

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Speaker 2: just based on inconsistencies in his story, It's based on

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Speaker 2: them knowing Angles for a very long time. Lee Worries

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Speaker 2: had been close friends with Rick Engles for several decades

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Speaker 2: and had brought him into the family fold. So this

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Speaker 2: family member I spoke with it spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time with Angles. They tell me about how when Angles

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Speaker 2: had his first fatal on duty shooting, he went out

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Speaker 2: to celebrate, and they tell me Angles had a volatile side.

379
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Speaker 2: So the family said that he was basically this like

380
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Speaker 2: hard ass country boy who was like always pulling guns

381
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Speaker 2: on people. And then this family member also said Lee

382
00:24:04,731 --> 00:24:08,330
Speaker 2: told them this story about going out horse riding with

383
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Speaker 2: Rick Engles, and on this particular trip, a ranger came

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Speaker 2: up and asked them to see their permit, and Rick

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Speaker 2: responded by pulling a gun on the ranger and telling

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Speaker 2: him that he could just kill the ranger right then

387
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Speaker 2: and there and no one would ever find out what.

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Speaker 8: Happened to him what.

389
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Speaker 2: But the weirdest thing was that at the funeral they

390
00:24:34,291 --> 00:24:37,011
Speaker 2: were talking to Lynn Ingalls and ask what they had

391
00:24:37,051 --> 00:24:40,571
Speaker 2: all been doing earlier in the day the day Jennifer

392
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Speaker 2: and Lee died, and Lynn Ingle said that they had

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Speaker 2: spent the day at a gun range, which stuck out

394
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Speaker 2: to them because if this woman killed herself because she

395
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Speaker 2: was emotionally distraught, why would you take her to a

396
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Speaker 2: gun range. The gun range detail is just confusing. That's

397
00:25:01,931 --> 00:25:04,131
Speaker 2: not a place you'd take someone in the middle of

398
00:25:04,211 --> 00:25:08,171
Speaker 2: a mental health crisis. But it also undermines those gun

399
00:25:08,211 --> 00:25:11,251
Speaker 2: residue tests because of all four people went to the

400
00:25:11,251 --> 00:25:14,611
Speaker 2: gun range, then that would explain why the victims had

401
00:25:14,611 --> 00:25:17,890
Speaker 2: gun residue on their hands, And it also means that

402
00:25:18,011 --> 00:25:22,211
Speaker 2: Lynn and Rick Angles would have gun residue on their hands, unless,

403
00:25:22,251 --> 00:25:28,491
Speaker 2: of course, they washed it off. This information isn't coming

404
00:25:28,491 --> 00:25:31,491
Speaker 2: from an informant that the Sheriff's department can just dismiss

405
00:25:31,531 --> 00:25:34,531
Speaker 2: as tweaker talk. It's from a family member of the

406
00:25:34,571 --> 00:25:37,851
Speaker 2: two victims who says they know Rick Angles pretty well,

407
00:25:38,531 --> 00:25:40,971
Speaker 2: but they tell me they never pressed the sheriff's department

408
00:25:41,011 --> 00:25:45,251
Speaker 2: about the suicide determinations. They just let it lie. They

409
00:25:45,251 --> 00:25:47,811
Speaker 2: were scared to come forward because they felt like the

410
00:25:47,851 --> 00:25:52,850
Speaker 2: department had Rick Engles back records from the La County

411
00:25:52,851 --> 00:25:55,771
Speaker 2: Sheriff's department would go a long way in clarifying what

412
00:25:55,931 --> 00:26:00,771
Speaker 2: really happened, But again the LASD denied our public records request,

413
00:26:01,411 --> 00:26:05,011
Speaker 2: saying that disclosure of these records could jeopardize the potential

414
00:26:05,091 --> 00:26:09,131
Speaker 2: safety of the people involved. Well, two of those people

415
00:26:09,131 --> 00:26:12,531
Speaker 2: are dead and the other two may be responsible for

416
00:26:12,611 --> 00:26:16,051
Speaker 2: those deaths, So it seems to me that their concern

417
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Speaker 2: for safety is a little misplaced.

418
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Speaker 9: Law enforcement wants to hide something, they call it a

419
00:26:23,011 --> 00:26:24,771
Speaker 9: suicide and close the case.

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Speaker 2: Auj's former boss, retired Captain Mike Bauer, thinks this is

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00:26:29,771 --> 00:26:31,371
Speaker 2: all part of the department's strategy.

422
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Speaker 9: It's too indecent for the public to learn, as it's

423
00:26:34,891 --> 00:26:38,011
Speaker 9: embarrassing to the family, and we don't release that information.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what are the odds that Angles would be

425
00:26:42,011 --> 00:26:45,771
Speaker 2: implicated in Aujay's alleged suicide and then years later be

426
00:26:45,811 --> 00:26:49,451
Speaker 2: caught in the middle of two more deaths, Two more

427
00:26:49,491 --> 00:26:55,851
Speaker 2: suicides that occurred in Angle's home with Angle's gun. John

428
00:26:55,851 --> 00:26:59,971
Speaker 2: Auja's disappearance left behind a void of information, but the

429
00:27:00,011 --> 00:27:04,171
Speaker 2: tragedy that befell Jennifer Vories, Derossi and Lee Ory's is

430
00:27:04,251 --> 00:27:08,251
Speaker 2: far less mysterious. There were bodies, there was a weapon,

431
00:27:08,531 --> 00:27:11,891
Speaker 2: a precise low case and a story told by two

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00:27:11,971 --> 00:27:17,091
Speaker 2: people that doesn't entirely square with medical analysis. In spite

433
00:27:17,131 --> 00:27:20,011
Speaker 2: of all that possible evidence, and in spite of all

434
00:27:20,051 --> 00:27:24,651
Speaker 2: the criminal allegations surrounding Deputy Angles, the Sheriff's Department didn't

435
00:27:24,691 --> 00:27:27,611
Speaker 2: seem to dig in on any of this, and yet

436
00:27:27,651 --> 00:27:32,610
Speaker 2: again they gave Angles a pass. It's the job of

437
00:27:32,651 --> 00:27:37,811
Speaker 2: investigators to look for patterns in crime stats, criminal histories, forensics,

438
00:27:38,691 --> 00:27:42,131
Speaker 2: and yet the LSD refused to consider these violent deaths

439
00:27:42,171 --> 00:27:46,491
Speaker 2: and Angles home as anything more than an unfortunate coincidence.

440
00:27:47,571 --> 00:27:51,211
Speaker 2: But we can't help but wonder how many tragedies make

441
00:27:51,251 --> 00:27:55,611
Speaker 2: a pattern. According to Mike Bauer, there are even more

442
00:27:55,691 --> 00:27:59,491
Speaker 2: suspicious deaths linked to ric Angles, and those need to

443
00:27:59,531 --> 00:28:00,851
Speaker 2: be seriously investigated too.

444
00:28:02,411 --> 00:28:06,291
Speaker 9: The goal was to find one missing person, John Ojay,

445
00:28:06,531 --> 00:28:09,331
Speaker 9: and then try to determine the true cause of his death,

446
00:28:10,531 --> 00:28:13,611
Speaker 9: and in the process I've found that this matters linked

447
00:28:13,651 --> 00:28:18,411
Speaker 9: to a number of other missing people and murders.

448
00:28:19,411 --> 00:28:24,211
Speaker 2: There's Rodney Katziff. Remember he was the freelance investigator who

449
00:28:24,291 --> 00:28:26,411
Speaker 2: kicked up tips on the aj case and sent some

450
00:28:26,571 --> 00:28:30,731
Speaker 2: key informants Hager's away. Katzf went missing in two thousand

451
00:28:30,731 --> 00:28:33,731
Speaker 2: and one, and his car was found burned out near

452
00:28:33,771 --> 00:28:38,771
Speaker 2: the Angelis National Forest. Rick Angles was the deputy assigned

453
00:28:38,771 --> 00:28:42,371
Speaker 2: to the incident, but curiously he chose not to respond.

454
00:28:44,011 --> 00:28:47,971
Speaker 2: Just months before his disappearance, Katz had written a letter

455
00:28:48,011 --> 00:28:51,691
Speaker 2: to a friend talking about the AUJ case. He wrote

456
00:28:51,691 --> 00:28:55,211
Speaker 2: that Tom Hinkle and Rick Engles both killed the lost

457
00:28:55,211 --> 00:29:01,371
Speaker 2: cop d quote, I've got the witness who was there unquote.

458
00:29:02,531 --> 00:29:05,291
Speaker 2: And a few years before that, Engle shot and killed

459
00:29:05,291 --> 00:29:09,651
Speaker 2: a guy named Lyle Tyler. Engles had responded to a

460
00:29:09,651 --> 00:29:13,011
Speaker 2: stolen vehicle call at Tyler's trailer. When Tyler came to

461
00:29:13,051 --> 00:29:18,971
Speaker 2: the door holding a shotgun, Engles opened fire. The LSD

462
00:29:19,131 --> 00:29:22,171
Speaker 2: ruled it a justified shooting, but according to at least

463
00:29:22,171 --> 00:29:26,251
Speaker 2: one informant, Tyler knew too much about Engle's meth operation

464
00:29:27,251 --> 00:29:30,731
Speaker 2: and was terrified the deputy might come after him.

465
00:29:31,411 --> 00:29:37,931
Speaker 9: This is a criminal enterprise centering on manufacture and distribution

466
00:29:38,171 --> 00:29:42,571
Speaker 9: of myth in Annel Valley, and in my opinion, continued

467
00:29:42,611 --> 00:29:44,931
Speaker 9: to run because the Sheriff'spartment did not put an end

468
00:29:44,971 --> 00:29:45,211
Speaker 9: to it.

469
00:29:51,691 --> 00:29:54,611
Speaker 1: Armed with as much reporting as possible, we decide it's

470
00:29:54,651 --> 00:29:57,491
Speaker 1: time to finish off our call list. To talk to

471
00:29:57,571 --> 00:30:02,171
Speaker 1: meth dealer Tom Hinkle and Deputy Rick Angles. I'd been

472
00:30:02,171 --> 00:30:05,491
Speaker 1: trading voicemails with Hinkle for a few weeks, but I

473
00:30:05,571 --> 00:30:09,011
Speaker 1: eventually get him on the phone. Afterwards, I called Betsy

474
00:30:09,051 --> 00:30:12,931
Speaker 1: to filler in, so you know how I've been playing

475
00:30:12,971 --> 00:30:16,211
Speaker 1: phone tag with old Tom Hinkle. Yeah?

476
00:30:16,251 --> 00:30:17,611
Speaker 7: Did you actually did you finally get him?

477
00:30:17,691 --> 00:30:17,891
Speaker 5: Oh?

478
00:30:17,931 --> 00:30:18,731
Speaker 1: My god? Yes?

479
00:30:19,011 --> 00:30:19,731
Speaker 7: Does he still have.

480
00:30:19,731 --> 00:30:23,211
Speaker 2: That deep, gruff, menacing sounding Sam Elliot voice?

481
00:30:23,371 --> 00:30:25,811
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. As soon as I picked up the

482
00:30:25,811 --> 00:30:31,011
Speaker 1: phone and heard his voice, I started sweating immediately. I

483
00:30:31,051 --> 00:30:33,891
Speaker 1: give Hinkle my normal spiel that we're working on a

484
00:30:33,931 --> 00:30:36,331
Speaker 1: story about something that happened in Pair Blossom in the

485
00:30:36,371 --> 00:30:39,971
Speaker 1: late nineties, and that his name has come up multiple times.

486
00:30:40,931 --> 00:30:44,211
Speaker 1: I provide no specifics, don't even say au Jay's name,

487
00:30:45,051 --> 00:30:47,691
Speaker 1: but he seems to know exactly what I'm referring to

488
00:30:48,371 --> 00:30:52,971
Speaker 1: and is quick to answer. He said, I don't have to.

489
00:30:53,331 --> 00:30:56,371
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna. I don't want to. I don't want

490
00:30:56,371 --> 00:30:58,371
Speaker 1: to talk to nobody about anything.

491
00:30:59,531 --> 00:31:00,611
Speaker 6: Did he say it with that much?

492
00:31:00,691 --> 00:31:01,051
Speaker 4: SaaS?

493
00:31:01,211 --> 00:31:02,371
Speaker 1: Oh more, SaaS.

494
00:31:02,771 --> 00:31:08,331
Speaker 2: It's so surprising that that was his response.

495
00:31:08,811 --> 00:31:11,811
Speaker 1: Because you would expect someone that has.

496
00:31:11,611 --> 00:31:16,251
Speaker 2: No involvement to say I wasn't involved. I don't know

497
00:31:16,451 --> 00:31:19,291
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, but.

498
00:31:19,211 --> 00:31:23,131
Speaker 1: That's not what he said. We don't get new information

499
00:31:23,291 --> 00:31:27,011
Speaker 1: from Tom Hinkle, but our brief interaction matches what we've

500
00:31:27,011 --> 00:31:30,251
Speaker 1: heard about him. Just like when he talked to DEA

501
00:31:30,411 --> 00:31:34,091
Speaker 1: agent Kent Bailey. He doesn't deny knowledge of what happened

502
00:31:34,091 --> 00:31:40,331
Speaker 1: to Adjay. He just won't give it up. And now

503
00:31:40,611 --> 00:31:42,731
Speaker 1: the time's come for our other call.

504
00:31:44,091 --> 00:31:45,051
Speaker 6: Okay, ready to do this?

505
00:31:45,851 --> 00:31:46,331
Speaker 1: I guess so?

506
00:31:46,731 --> 00:31:50,491
Speaker 2: Okay, who's going to make the call to rig Angles?

507
00:31:51,211 --> 00:31:54,051
Speaker 1: We're torn over who's going to do the deed. We

508
00:31:54,131 --> 00:31:58,251
Speaker 1: want answers, We need answers, but the idea of confronting

509
00:31:58,291 --> 00:32:01,771
Speaker 1: Angles is nerve wracking given all the things people have

510
00:32:01,811 --> 00:32:05,691
Speaker 1: accused him of doing. So we settle the matter diplomatically,

511
00:32:06,611 --> 00:32:07,491
Speaker 1: rock paper scissors.

512
00:32:08,851 --> 00:32:13,051
Speaker 8: It is the fairway, okay, ron two.

513
00:32:16,171 --> 00:32:17,971
Speaker 2: Paper wins every time, two out of three.

514
00:32:18,291 --> 00:32:21,171
Speaker 1: No, Okay, I will do it, but I've got to

515
00:32:21,211 --> 00:32:27,451
Speaker 1: know if we only have time for one questions disappearents

516
00:32:28,651 --> 00:32:29,731
Speaker 1: all right, we got it?

517
00:32:29,811 --> 00:32:40,171
Speaker 8: Yeah, three.

518
00:32:42,291 --> 00:32:46,571
Speaker 1: My stomach's and knots. The phone's ringing, my hands starts sweating.

519
00:32:47,091 --> 00:32:50,891
Speaker 1: I get ready to leave a message, and then someone

520
00:32:51,011 --> 00:32:54,331
Speaker 1: answers the phone. Hi, I'm looking for a Rick.

521
00:32:55,411 --> 00:32:58,331
Speaker 2: I can tell Haley's nervous because her voice goes up

522
00:32:58,331 --> 00:33:02,811
Speaker 2: a whole octave. I overhear Rick's wife, Lynn angles on

523
00:33:02,851 --> 00:33:05,611
Speaker 2: the phone. She says, he's not home right now. Can

524
00:33:05,611 --> 00:33:06,051
Speaker 2: I help you?

525
00:33:06,851 --> 00:33:08,291
Speaker 8: Yeah, my name's Haley Fox.

526
00:33:08,491 --> 00:33:10,811
Speaker 1: I'm a reporter act and I was trying to track

527
00:33:10,891 --> 00:33:13,531
Speaker 1: him down for a story we're working on. Is it

528
00:33:13,531 --> 00:33:15,691
Speaker 1: possible for me to leave a message?

529
00:33:15,811 --> 00:33:18,131
Speaker 2: She says yes and asks what is this concerning.

530
00:33:18,851 --> 00:33:20,931
Speaker 1: It's about a few different things back when he was

531
00:33:20,971 --> 00:33:25,571
Speaker 1: working as resident deputy in pair Blossom related to a

532
00:33:25,611 --> 00:33:28,211
Speaker 1: few things that were going on in the area, including

533
00:33:28,451 --> 00:33:35,011
Speaker 1: the John au j case. Yeah, thank you so much, Okay, bye,

534
00:33:36,931 --> 00:33:38,891
Speaker 1: She said, he may or may not want to talk

535
00:33:38,891 --> 00:33:42,331
Speaker 1: to you, but I'll pass along the message. Yeah, which frankly,

536
00:33:42,451 --> 00:33:44,531
Speaker 1: is more encouraging than I thought it would be. I

537
00:33:44,571 --> 00:33:45,931
Speaker 1: thought she was gonna be like, uh.

538
00:33:45,931 --> 00:33:49,411
Speaker 2: Hang out, yeah, okay, and now we.

539
00:33:49,331 --> 00:33:50,371
Speaker 1: Wait and now we wait.

540
00:33:52,451 --> 00:33:55,851
Speaker 2: What do you think the chances are that who actually

541
00:33:56,691 --> 00:33:57,371
Speaker 2: talk to us?

542
00:33:57,771 --> 00:34:01,131
Speaker 1: Based on his performance in court, I would say not

543
00:34:01,411 --> 00:34:01,891
Speaker 1: very high.

544
00:34:02,611 --> 00:34:03,291
Speaker 8: Yeah.

545
00:34:03,491 --> 00:34:05,931
Speaker 2: Giving him the answer questions kind of seemed like it

546
00:34:05,971 --> 00:34:07,211
Speaker 2: was pulling teeth.

547
00:34:07,091 --> 00:34:13,691
Speaker 1: M The only real insight we have into Rick Engels's

548
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:18,371
Speaker 1: personality is from those recorded interviews and court transcripts used

549
00:34:18,371 --> 00:34:22,891
Speaker 1: as exhibits in Hagar's lawsuit. What we glean from them

550
00:34:23,091 --> 00:34:26,451
Speaker 1: is that Angles is hard to read. On one hand,

551
00:34:26,731 --> 00:34:29,611
Speaker 1: he's evasive and kurt. He says he doesn't know what

552
00:34:29,651 --> 00:34:32,251
Speaker 1: he was doing on June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, the

553
00:34:32,331 --> 00:34:37,131
Speaker 1: day au j disappeared, but his deadpan responses are laced

554
00:34:37,211 --> 00:34:40,771
Speaker 1: with pisson vinegar. He seems to be flaunting that the

555
00:34:40,771 --> 00:34:43,811
Speaker 1: Sheriff's department did not thoroughly vet him as a suspect.

556
00:34:44,971 --> 00:34:48,091
Speaker 1: He says homicide detective Joe Holmes never checked his phone

557
00:34:48,131 --> 00:34:52,770
Speaker 1: records or searched his house like he claimed. He's got

558
00:34:52,811 --> 00:34:55,251
Speaker 1: a lot of nerve and we hope it might compel

559
00:34:55,291 --> 00:34:57,651
Speaker 1: him to talk to us, so we try him again.

560
00:35:07,331 --> 00:35:09,571
Speaker 5: The FBI has a tap on the phone.

561
00:35:11,571 --> 00:35:14,651
Speaker 2: Watching the home, so we don't message at the telle

562
00:35:15,251 --> 00:35:17,250
Speaker 2: and I'll call you back with a phone that ain't

563
00:35:17,291 --> 00:35:17,690
Speaker 2: my own.

564
00:35:22,291 --> 00:35:26,491
Speaker 1: Angles has the same outgoing message he recorded decades earlier

565
00:35:27,291 --> 00:35:32,491
Speaker 1: when he was a suspect in multiple investigations. Even in retirement,

566
00:35:32,571 --> 00:35:37,171
Speaker 1: he still taunting authorities, teasing phone conversations, they never got

567
00:35:37,171 --> 00:35:41,491
Speaker 1: a chance to hear. I leave a message for Angles,

568
00:35:42,451 --> 00:35:46,131
Speaker 1: but he never calls back, so we never get a

569
00:35:46,211 --> 00:35:49,690
Speaker 1: chance to ask the money question. Were you involved in

570
00:35:49,811 --> 00:35:54,691
Speaker 1: John au Jay's disappearance. It's what the Sheriff's department should

571
00:35:54,691 --> 00:35:57,730
Speaker 1: have been asking from the start, but it seems like

572
00:35:57,811 --> 00:36:01,931
Speaker 1: maybe they just didn't want to know. And that's why

573
00:36:01,971 --> 00:36:05,731
Speaker 1: we do what we do next. We call the police

574
00:36:06,451 --> 00:36:11,531
Speaker 1: on the police. Haley Fox, I'm a reporter in Los

575
00:36:11,571 --> 00:36:16,011
Speaker 1: Angeles working on an investigative series about the La Tony

576
00:36:16,051 --> 00:36:18,811
Speaker 1: Sheriff's gefty who went missing out and alow.

577
00:36:35,331 --> 00:36:39,611
Speaker 2: There's an incredible number of allegations against Ric Angles. The

578
00:36:39,691 --> 00:36:42,171
Speaker 2: number of people who are missing or murdered in his

579
00:36:42,411 --> 00:36:47,251
Speaker 2: orbit is suspicious. We've seen no hard evidence that Angles

580
00:36:47,331 --> 00:36:50,210
Speaker 2: is guilty of the things he's been accused of, but

581
00:36:50,291 --> 00:36:53,571
Speaker 2: there is a consistent pattern in the Sheriff's Department's treatment

582
00:36:53,611 --> 00:36:57,971
Speaker 2: of Angles, clearing him over and over again with little

583
00:36:58,011 --> 00:37:01,651
Speaker 2: to no investigative effort, and that's the biggest indication to

584
00:37:01,731 --> 00:37:06,171
Speaker 2: me that there is something to all this. We've reached

585
00:37:06,171 --> 00:37:09,331
Speaker 2: out to the Sheriff's department numerous times. We submit him

586
00:37:09,331 --> 00:37:13,731
Speaker 2: aultiple interview requests and public records requests, which they denied.

587
00:37:14,891 --> 00:37:17,131
Speaker 2: Then we wrote them one last time to give them

588
00:37:17,131 --> 00:37:20,531
Speaker 2: a chance to respond to claims about Auja's disappearance made

589
00:37:20,571 --> 00:37:23,730
Speaker 2: in this story, but the response we got back was

590
00:37:23,891 --> 00:37:28,611
Speaker 2: pretty underwhelming. Here's a condensed version of it. To date,

591
00:37:29,171 --> 00:37:32,690
Speaker 2: based on the information developed throughout the course of the investigation,

592
00:37:33,251 --> 00:37:36,651
Speaker 2: there is no evidence to substantiate foul play was a

593
00:37:36,691 --> 00:37:40,531
Speaker 2: factor in his disappearance. The department is dedicated to ensuring

594
00:37:40,611 --> 00:37:44,531
Speaker 2: that every investigative avenue is explored, and we encourage anyone

595
00:37:44,531 --> 00:37:50,211
Speaker 2: with information to contact the Homicide Bureau. Yeah, the LASD

596
00:37:50,371 --> 00:37:54,690
Speaker 2: is dedicated to every investigative avenue except for all the

597
00:37:54,731 --> 00:37:59,011
Speaker 2: ones that currently exist. So what happens when a law

598
00:37:59,051 --> 00:38:03,051
Speaker 2: enforcement agency fails to do its job or even refuses

599
00:38:03,091 --> 00:38:05,491
Speaker 2: to do it? Who has the power to step in

600
00:38:05,651 --> 00:38:10,131
Speaker 2: and force the issue?

601
00:38:10,251 --> 00:38:10,531
Speaker 1: Today?

602
00:38:10,531 --> 00:38:13,931
Speaker 2: In Los Angeles County, there are two agencies that oversee

603
00:38:13,971 --> 00:38:18,931
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's Department. There's the Civilian Oversight Commission, which investigates

604
00:38:18,971 --> 00:38:22,411
Speaker 2: big picture issues like use of force and deputy misconduct,

605
00:38:22,811 --> 00:38:27,451
Speaker 2: typically focused on current LASD personnel, And then there's the

606
00:38:27,531 --> 00:38:32,331
Speaker 2: Office of the Inspector General or OIG. It's an independent

607
00:38:32,371 --> 00:38:36,971
Speaker 2: government agency formed to promote transparency and constitutional policing within

608
00:38:37,051 --> 00:38:40,051
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's Department. So we take our findings to the

609
00:38:40,051 --> 00:38:43,850
Speaker 2: OIG to see if they can help us. We tell

610
00:38:43,891 --> 00:38:47,251
Speaker 2: the OIG about the allegations that Rick Angles was involved

611
00:38:47,251 --> 00:38:51,770
Speaker 2: in Aujay's disappearance, that the Sheriff's department never properly investigated him,

612
00:38:52,211 --> 00:38:55,651
Speaker 2: and that there's a number of suspicious deaths surrounding Angles.

613
00:38:57,051 --> 00:39:02,451
Speaker 2: The Chief Deputy of the OIG writes back with this response. Currently,

614
00:39:02,491 --> 00:39:05,731
Speaker 2: the Office of the Inspector General is unable to conduct

615
00:39:05,851 --> 00:39:09,971
Speaker 2: meaningful investigations because we're not able to compel share department

616
00:39:10,011 --> 00:39:10,851
Speaker 2: personnel to.

617
00:39:10,811 --> 00:39:11,491
Speaker 1: Speak with us.

618
00:39:12,211 --> 00:39:15,051
Speaker 2: Of course, we are concerned if the Sheriff's Department covered

619
00:39:15,091 --> 00:39:17,531
Speaker 2: up the involvement of a sheriff's deputy and a homicide,

620
00:39:18,051 --> 00:39:20,611
Speaker 2: but the most we could do is report it, which

621
00:39:20,651 --> 00:39:23,571
Speaker 2: you have the power to do by reporting your investigation

622
00:39:23,731 --> 00:39:27,851
Speaker 2: in the media. Investigative reporting is often an effective means

623
00:39:28,091 --> 00:39:34,210
Speaker 2: to get the department to comment or even act. We

624
00:39:34,251 --> 00:39:36,731
Speaker 2: appreciate the pat on the back from the Inspector General,

625
00:39:37,451 --> 00:39:40,371
Speaker 2: but we're discouraged to learn that the oversight agency has

626
00:39:40,451 --> 00:39:46,210
Speaker 2: no real authority and therefore no real oversight because ultimately

627
00:39:46,451 --> 00:39:50,611
Speaker 2: cooperation from the Sheriff's Department is just voluntary. They can

628
00:39:50,691 --> 00:39:54,651
Speaker 2: and do simply refuse to share information with outsiders. So

629
00:39:54,731 --> 00:39:58,171
Speaker 2: this watchdog group is only as effective as the LASD

630
00:39:58,371 --> 00:40:02,770
Speaker 2: allows it to be, making law enforcement the gatekeeper to

631
00:40:02,851 --> 00:40:08,931
Speaker 2: its own secrets. That's what this story is ultimately about,

632
00:40:09,531 --> 00:40:13,491
Speaker 2: crime that happens in the absence of oversight. At first,

633
00:40:13,651 --> 00:40:16,571
Speaker 2: we thought the problem was just concentrated in the outskirts

634
00:40:16,611 --> 00:40:20,210
Speaker 2: of Los Angeles County, that the Sheriff's Department didn't do

635
00:40:20,371 --> 00:40:24,251
Speaker 2: enough to police the Antelope Valley or oversee its personnel

636
00:40:24,291 --> 00:40:28,051
Speaker 2: out there. But the truth is the problem is much

637
00:40:28,131 --> 00:40:33,011
Speaker 2: bigger because there's no actual accountability for the LA County

638
00:40:33,011 --> 00:40:41,891
Speaker 2: Sheriff's Department. They are the real untouchables. We feel frustrated, alarmed,

639
00:40:42,491 --> 00:40:46,810
Speaker 2: to be perfectly honest, a bit defeated, but we can't

640
00:40:46,811 --> 00:40:51,730
Speaker 2: say we weren't warned from the very beginning. So when

641
00:40:51,731 --> 00:40:55,051
Speaker 2: you first told us that you guys have stumbled into

642
00:40:55,091 --> 00:40:57,131
Speaker 2: a cluster of shit, what did you.

643
00:40:57,051 --> 00:41:01,451
Speaker 5: Mean by that? Welcome aboard, Put your seat belt law on,

644
00:41:02,291 --> 00:41:04,171
Speaker 5: get ready for some interesting stuff.

645
00:41:05,291 --> 00:41:08,850
Speaker 2: I check in with retired LASD Captain Mike Bauer, who

646
00:41:08,891 --> 00:41:10,851
Speaker 2: first produced us to the AJ case.

647
00:41:11,811 --> 00:41:15,091
Speaker 5: People like you come and go and get interested in

648
00:41:15,131 --> 00:41:20,011
Speaker 5: the topic of the mysterious disappearances. It's all very interesting,

649
00:41:21,251 --> 00:41:24,811
Speaker 5: and the stuff that I found out has been beyond interesting.

650
00:41:25,011 --> 00:41:26,131
Speaker 5: It's been disturbing.

651
00:41:27,411 --> 00:41:30,331
Speaker 2: Nower just can't shake how his department handled things.

652
00:41:31,331 --> 00:41:35,131
Speaker 5: They didn't do their job. They basically said, we've got

653
00:41:35,171 --> 00:41:38,251
Speaker 5: to put a lid on this because it's going the

654
00:41:38,251 --> 00:41:41,210
Speaker 5: wrong direction. It's going in the direction of that there's

655
00:41:41,331 --> 00:41:45,091
Speaker 5: drugs involved, and there's corruption involved, and there's murder involved. Okay,

656
00:41:45,371 --> 00:41:48,611
Speaker 5: we don't want to go in that direction. So it's

657
00:41:48,611 --> 00:41:51,531
Speaker 5: a can of crap that is a little broader than

658
00:41:51,771 --> 00:41:53,931
Speaker 5: just what happened to John r J. Where is he?

659
00:41:54,411 --> 00:41:57,091
Speaker 5: And once we find him, it's all over. No, once

660
00:41:57,131 --> 00:41:59,291
Speaker 5: we find him, it all starts.

661
00:42:03,211 --> 00:42:06,651
Speaker 2: Do you have any advice for digging ourselves out of it?

662
00:42:07,011 --> 00:42:08,571
Speaker 2: How do we get out of the cluster of shit?

663
00:42:10,331 --> 00:42:10,611
Speaker 4: Yeah?

664
00:42:10,731 --> 00:42:14,211
Speaker 2: I'm painfully aware of the irony here of me asking

665
00:42:14,251 --> 00:42:17,651
Speaker 2: a man who's been investigating Auday's disappearance for over two

666
00:42:17,731 --> 00:42:20,171
Speaker 2: decades how the thing ends.

667
00:42:21,371 --> 00:42:23,290
Speaker 5: The more I looked at it, the worst it got.

668
00:42:23,771 --> 00:42:26,131
Speaker 5: And as I kept going, I thought, you know, I

669
00:42:26,171 --> 00:42:27,730
Speaker 5: don't know if I can solve this.

670
00:42:29,331 --> 00:42:32,131
Speaker 2: Bauer says it for his own peace of mind. He's

671
00:42:32,171 --> 00:42:34,371
Speaker 2: had to come to terms with the fact that some

672
00:42:34,451 --> 00:42:36,131
Speaker 2: mysteries stay mysteries.

673
00:42:37,291 --> 00:42:39,611
Speaker 5: I came to the realization in the last few years

674
00:42:39,611 --> 00:42:42,210
Speaker 5: my wife got cancer that couldn't go to la and

675
00:42:42,291 --> 00:42:44,291
Speaker 5: do any field of work at all because of my

676
00:42:44,331 --> 00:42:46,891
Speaker 5: wife's illness. And I said it myself, Okay, Now, if

677
00:42:46,891 --> 00:42:49,810
Speaker 5: you get used to the idea that I will never

678
00:42:49,851 --> 00:42:55,011
Speaker 5: solve this, and that's a hard that is a very

679
00:42:55,051 --> 00:43:03,011
Speaker 5: hard pill to swallow. I will never solve this. Well,

680
00:43:03,691 --> 00:43:04,491
Speaker 5: we'll see about that.

681
00:43:07,931 --> 00:43:11,730
Speaker 2: Mike Bouer lives with that unswer every day, but he's

682
00:43:11,771 --> 00:43:14,811
Speaker 2: still got some fight left in him. When he's not

683
00:43:14,931 --> 00:43:18,211
Speaker 2: tending to his ducks and other animals, he's plotting.

684
00:43:19,731 --> 00:43:22,611
Speaker 5: Well, I have a strategy that I have not implemented,

685
00:43:22,691 --> 00:43:23,771
Speaker 5: but I may implement.

686
00:43:25,131 --> 00:43:28,771
Speaker 2: Debbie Auj gave Mike Bauer power of attorney over the

687
00:43:28,851 --> 00:43:32,411
Speaker 2: Jonathan A. J Estate, and as such he can sue

688
00:43:32,411 --> 00:43:34,691
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's Department on behalf of the estate.

689
00:43:35,771 --> 00:43:38,411
Speaker 5: I would bring a civil lawsuit against the department for

690
00:43:39,291 --> 00:43:44,531
Speaker 5: damaging Auj's estate. Dambaging Auj's widow tambaging Auj's daughter with

691
00:43:44,691 --> 00:43:48,131
Speaker 5: this false information, containing and reporting that the department is

692
00:43:48,131 --> 00:43:49,210
Speaker 5: failing to investigate.

693
00:43:52,411 --> 00:43:56,651
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg is considering getting his PI

694
00:43:56,771 --> 00:43:59,891
Speaker 2: license so he can do a private investigation into the

695
00:43:59,931 --> 00:44:04,491
Speaker 2: Auj case, hopefully with his buddy Darren Hager by his side.

696
00:44:05,691 --> 00:44:08,531
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know what else to do. Otherwise

697
00:44:09,811 --> 00:44:11,731
Speaker 4: we'll just take it to our grave.

698
00:44:13,491 --> 00:44:16,571
Speaker 2: And Hagar spends his days on his ranch, herding cattle

699
00:44:16,971 --> 00:44:19,210
Speaker 2: and reliving a past life he can't seem to let

700
00:44:19,251 --> 00:44:22,171
Speaker 2: go of, not until the case is solved.

701
00:44:23,891 --> 00:44:27,611
Speaker 3: Just prove AJ killed himself or AJ was murdered. I

702
00:44:27,611 --> 00:44:29,851
Speaker 3: don't care either way. Make me look like a complete

703
00:44:30,691 --> 00:44:36,011
Speaker 3: asinine go nowhere, detective, And he committed suicide and I

704
00:44:36,131 --> 00:44:39,811
Speaker 3: just missed the whole ball of wax.

705
00:44:41,051 --> 00:44:42,531
Speaker 6: Those are the only two things I want.

706
00:44:50,651 --> 00:44:53,811
Speaker 2: John Auj's last day continues to play on loop in

707
00:44:53,851 --> 00:45:00,171
Speaker 2: their minds and ours too. So we make one last

708
00:45:00,171 --> 00:45:04,931
Speaker 2: trip to the Devil's punch Bowl, but this time we're

709
00:45:04,971 --> 00:45:11,851
Speaker 2: not chasing after anything. Staring out at that this overlook,

710
00:45:12,011 --> 00:45:14,371
Speaker 2: you know, and like seeing the mountains and the rocks,

711
00:45:14,411 --> 00:45:20,611
Speaker 2: and you just get the sense that it's like this immovable,

712
00:45:20,691 --> 00:45:21,451
Speaker 2: static thing.

713
00:45:23,131 --> 00:45:28,851
Speaker 1: I think it's really fitting that we're here because so

714
00:45:29,051 --> 00:45:35,011
Speaker 1: much of John Augy's story is like elusive and intangible

715
00:45:35,731 --> 00:45:40,011
Speaker 1: and feels impossible to hold on to. And the Devil's

716
00:45:40,051 --> 00:45:43,051
Speaker 1: Punch Bowl is like the one place where we can

717
00:45:43,091 --> 00:45:48,891
Speaker 1: actually go and feel some part of the story.

718
00:45:49,931 --> 00:45:51,250
Speaker 2: It grounds it in a way.

719
00:45:51,491 --> 00:45:54,771
Speaker 1: It grounds it. Yeah, like we can literally touch the

720
00:45:54,891 --> 00:46:01,411
Speaker 1: rocks and hear the trees, and that is really something

721
00:46:01,531 --> 00:46:05,730
Speaker 1: that's been hard to find in this story, any sort

722
00:46:05,771 --> 00:46:06,891
Speaker 1: of solid ground.

723
00:46:08,851 --> 00:46:12,890
Speaker 2: We've come to park our story to bring it home.

724
00:46:15,211 --> 00:46:18,811
Speaker 1: I feel tired, is what I feel. I can't imagine

725
00:46:18,811 --> 00:46:20,971
Speaker 1: how tired Power.

726
00:46:21,491 --> 00:46:24,371
Speaker 4: And Brandenburg an Acre and everybody.

727
00:46:24,851 --> 00:46:27,531
Speaker 2: I feel really tired to you. It's a lot to

728
00:46:27,571 --> 00:46:31,891
Speaker 2: take on, and working on this story. It's kind of

729
00:46:31,931 --> 00:46:34,091
Speaker 2: become the focal point of my life in a way

730
00:46:34,131 --> 00:46:38,730
Speaker 2: that hasn't been the most healthy. But it's the kind

731
00:46:38,811 --> 00:46:44,331
Speaker 2: of story that just draws you in and makes you

732
00:46:44,451 --> 00:46:48,371
Speaker 2: kind of obsessive because it feels like if you keep

733
00:46:48,491 --> 00:46:51,651
Speaker 2: chasing after the thing, the thing will reveal itself to you.

734
00:46:55,131 --> 00:46:57,651
Speaker 1: I still think the thing might reveal itself to us

735
00:46:58,011 --> 00:47:00,491
Speaker 1: maybe twenty years from alvest.

736
00:47:03,971 --> 00:47:08,731
Speaker 2: Hailey is the eternal optimist. I'm the eternal pessimist, or realist,

737
00:47:08,851 --> 00:47:12,051
Speaker 2: as I like to call it. Together, we balance each

738
00:47:12,091 --> 00:47:15,451
Speaker 2: other out and capture the ambivalence of what our characters

739
00:47:15,491 --> 00:47:19,811
Speaker 2: live with each and every day. The sun is starting

740
00:47:19,811 --> 00:47:20,810
Speaker 2: to go down pretty quickly.

741
00:47:20,931 --> 00:47:23,690
Speaker 1: Now, I was gonna say, it's going to be dark

742
00:47:23,731 --> 00:47:24,290
Speaker 1: pretty soon.

743
00:47:28,891 --> 00:47:32,290
Speaker 2: In the Western movie version of this story, the good

744
00:47:32,331 --> 00:47:35,651
Speaker 2: guys get the bad guys and ride off into the sunset.

745
00:47:36,891 --> 00:47:40,291
Speaker 2: But in this story, there's no tidy distinction between the

746
00:47:40,331 --> 00:47:43,770
Speaker 2: good guys and the bad guys, and there's certainly no

747
00:47:43,971 --> 00:47:48,291
Speaker 2: tidy ending. So we just sit on a rocky overlook

748
00:47:48,571 --> 00:47:52,011
Speaker 2: and watch the sun go down as it dips behind

749
00:47:52,051 --> 00:47:55,211
Speaker 2: a mountain. The last rays of light reflect off the

750
00:47:55,331 --> 00:47:58,971
Speaker 2: rock formations as darkness pulls up from the bottom of

751
00:47:58,971 --> 00:48:03,731
Speaker 2: the punch bowl. The rocks look like fiery pillars floating

752
00:48:03,811 --> 00:48:09,810
Speaker 2: in a sea of black, something solid encircled by shadows.

753
00:48:11,291 --> 00:48:17,611
Speaker 2: And then the light fades from them too. All right,

754
00:48:17,771 --> 00:48:19,770
Speaker 2: the sun has set on the punch bowl.

755
00:48:21,811 --> 00:48:24,131
Speaker 6: I think that's that's our cute.

756
00:48:25,411 --> 00:48:30,971
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, And with that we pack up our

757
00:48:31,011 --> 00:48:43,411
Speaker 2: stuff and just walk away. And then, of course I

758
00:48:43,451 --> 00:48:45,571
Speaker 2: get a call from Haley, a few weeks later.

759
00:48:47,171 --> 00:48:50,931
Speaker 1: I'm calling because I just heard back from the FBI.

760
00:48:51,731 --> 00:48:52,091
Speaker 4: Lol.

761
00:48:52,811 --> 00:48:54,931
Speaker 1: It's actually a pretty good update.

762
00:48:56,011 --> 00:49:00,210
Speaker 2: Haley Fox, the Intrepid Reporter resubmitted our FBI request with

763
00:49:00,251 --> 00:49:05,011
Speaker 2: additional information from our investigation, and this time we don't

764
00:49:05,011 --> 00:49:06,491
Speaker 2: get their usual song and dance.

765
00:49:07,731 --> 00:49:11,811
Speaker 1: They said they have four hundred and eighty five pages.

766
00:49:12,331 --> 00:49:16,371
Speaker 2: Joh way, dude, yes, are you serious?

767
00:49:17,051 --> 00:49:17,331
Speaker 1: Yes?

768
00:49:18,531 --> 00:49:20,851
Speaker 6: So they were investigating the audit disappearance.

769
00:49:21,491 --> 00:49:22,331
Speaker 1: It seems like it.

770
00:49:23,171 --> 00:49:26,850
Speaker 2: That's important confirmation because we know that the FBI would

771
00:49:26,891 --> 00:49:31,131
Speaker 2: not be investigating an isolated homicide case or disappearance.

772
00:49:31,931 --> 00:49:35,250
Speaker 1: No, they don't get involved in anything unless there's an

773
00:49:35,291 --> 00:49:38,690
Speaker 1: element of corruption or multiple victims or something like that.

774
00:49:38,811 --> 00:49:39,730
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hm.

775
00:49:40,891 --> 00:49:42,931
Speaker 6: So when do we get our hands on these files?

776
00:49:44,371 --> 00:49:47,971
Speaker 1: That's the kicker. They said that it will take about

777
00:49:48,011 --> 00:49:49,611
Speaker 1: four years to process.

778
00:49:49,891 --> 00:49:53,291
Speaker 2: Four years? What are they doing copying these things by hands?

779
00:49:53,931 --> 00:49:54,971
Speaker 7: Yeah?

780
00:49:55,411 --> 00:49:58,051
Speaker 4: Just what I thought. I was a They pulled me

781
00:49:58,251 --> 00:49:58,690
Speaker 4: back in.

782
00:50:06,651 --> 00:50:07,171
Speaker 9: Terrible.

783
00:50:07,451 --> 00:50:10,371
Speaker 6: That's so bad, oh boy.

784
00:50:10,611 --> 00:50:17,131
Speaker 10: Okay, so to be continued to be continued, Okay, talk

785
00:50:17,171 --> 00:50:20,931
Speaker 10: to you later, Okay, love you, bye, love you, bye,

786
00:50:21,491 --> 00:50:26,891
Speaker 10: love you okay bye like bye for fucking reel, Get

787
00:50:26,971 --> 00:50:27,891
Speaker 10: off the phone.

788
00:50:29,131 --> 00:50:30,850
Speaker 2: Go away I did.

789
00:51:06,491 --> 00:51:09,251
Speaker 1: If you have any information or tips related to the

790
00:51:09,411 --> 00:51:14,131
Speaker 1: disappearance of John Aujay, please call two one three two six'

791
00:51:14,211 --> 00:51:20,171
Speaker 1: two nine eight eight nine for. Email shadows At pushkin DOT.

792
00:51:20,251 --> 00:51:24,971
Speaker 1: Fm valley Of shadows is, reported written and produced by

793
00:51:25,091 --> 00:51:29,851
Speaker 1: Us Haley fox And Betsy. Sheppard our editor Is Diane.

794
00:51:29,931 --> 00:51:34,811
Speaker 1: Hotson our executive producers Are Jacob smith And Alexandra. Garreton

795
00:51:35,451 --> 00:51:40,091
Speaker 1: original music By Jake, Gorsky Ray, Lynch Mike jersich And Hayden.

796
00:51:40,131 --> 00:51:45,131
Speaker 1: Gardner sound designed By Jake, gorsky fact checking By Onica.

797
00:51:45,211 --> 00:51:50,370
Speaker 1: Robbins additional production support By Sonia gerwick and our show

798
00:51:50,491 --> 00:51:54,891
Speaker 1: art was designed By Sean carney And Betsy. Shepherd special

799
00:51:54,931 --> 00:51:59,051
Speaker 1: thanks To Nick white for show art. Photography special thanks

800
00:51:59,051 --> 00:52:01,851
Speaker 1: to a few more people At pushkin who Made valley

801
00:52:01,851 --> 00:52:08,651
Speaker 1: Of shadows Possible Greta, Cone Christina, Sullivan Eric, Sandler Morgan,

802
00:52:08,731 --> 00:52:16,371
Speaker 1: Rattner Amy, Haggerdorn Kira, Posey jordan, McMillan Jake, flanagan And Owen.

803
00:52:16,411 --> 00:52:22,250
Speaker 1: Miller additional thanks To Sonic Milk studio In, Cambria california

804
00:52:23,171 --> 00:52:28,330
Speaker 1: And Porsche Street studios In Los. Angeles and we want

805
00:52:28,331 --> 00:52:31,011
Speaker 1: to thank our families for cutting us a lot of

806
00:52:31,051 --> 00:52:35,251
Speaker 1: slack over this past. Year valley Of shadows is a

807
00:52:35,251 --> 00:52:40,011
Speaker 1: production Of Pushkin. Industries to find More pushkin, podcasts listen

808
00:52:40,131 --> 00:52:43,651
Speaker 1: on The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever.

809
00:52:43,331 --> 00:52:43,811
Speaker 5: You listen to.

810
00:52:43,851 --> 00:53:09,531
Speaker 1: Podcasts from type To. Fun We're haley And betsy