1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Favor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: for you about Karaginans. Yes, yes, yes, yes, which is 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: kind of accidentally timely or didn't know it was going 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: to be timely. Yeah, uh, because because we we we 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: try to do something like irishly thematic for Saint Patrick's 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: Day every year, and and this year I was like, oh, 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: I don't I don't really have something, um, and we're 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: we're kind of mixing around episode topics due to my 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: completely wonky work schedule over the past couple of weeks. 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: And then Annie was like, no, actually, Karaginans are you know, 12 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: super irish, So that counts right because you'd suggested it 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: before and then it got all shuffled around You're trying 14 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: to meet all of these other tent poles. Yeah, And 15 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: I was like, well, well, actually, Lauren, which was a 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: surprise to me, I didn't know that, Uh, was there 17 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: any other reason why you first suggested Okay, Um, I've 18 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: been meaning to do like one of these food additives 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: that that works kind of like this for a while 20 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: because I'm really fascinated about them and just wanted to 21 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: learn more and also right like you know, like like 22 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: in my like balance of topics, I try to look 23 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: at different stuff that that isn't just a dish or 24 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: isn't just um an ingredient, and they incorporate those as well, 25 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: and so yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, And I 26 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: was excited to learn more about this one because you 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: see it on a lot of labels, but I was 28 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: not yeah, sure what it was yeah, same same I was, 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: or or how it works or what it do. So 30 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: sure yeah, I was just like, yeah, yeah, this was 31 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: a really fun one to read about. Um, if you 32 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: want to go into exhaustive detail about this stuff, you can. 33 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: You can, my friends, UM I would. I would love 34 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: to send you some research papers to read. Uh, they're 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: really exciting more homework, like legitimately read these research papers. Yeah, 36 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to know more, buy heck 37 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: you can. The information is out there for you. Yeah, 38 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: we are going to summarize. Yeah, we are a food show. 39 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: That's something that I had to remind myself of extra 40 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: often in this in the creation of this outline. Yeah, yeah, 41 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: which you know frequently we have to do, but this 42 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: one certainly, yeah, which I guess brings us. Yes, yes, karaginans. 43 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: What are they? Well, Caragenians are a category of starches 44 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: that can be extracted from red seaweed that are just 45 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: like really good at glomming onto water molecules and forming gels. 46 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: They are thus used in all kinds of foods as 47 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: a thickener or stabilizer or a mulsifier or binder. And 48 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: they're just like super useful because because they don't have 49 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: a flavor um and they don't dissolve in stuff like 50 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: alcohols or oils, so you can use them in a 51 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: lot of different types of foods and beverages and they'll 52 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: they'll hold up. But yeah, they're they're a natural polymer 53 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: that you can harvest from seaweed, which is a renewable resource. 54 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: It also means that you can use them in in 55 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: vegetarian foods and they are biodegradable. Um, they're they're like 56 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: gelatin but from plants. Uh, they're they're like a really 57 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: multipurpose jello. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, not a jello is 58 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: not also multi purpose, but caragenen is like a little 59 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: bit more multi purpose. Yeah yeah, but okay. In plants 60 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: that grow on land, their cell walls contain starches called 61 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: cellulose that provides the structure in plants cells, and thus 62 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: cellulose is how plants can grow tall or stiff or 63 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: strong like um like like like wheat or wood or cotton. Yeah, 64 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: some types of seaweed do have cellulose, but other types 65 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: have carragenin instead, and in these seaweeds, caragenin provides like 66 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: flexible structure and like like flotation capacity. There are a 67 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: whole bunch of different genuses and species of red seaweeds 68 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: in the botanical class of Florido ficia. I don't know 69 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: if I'm saying that right. We just took like a 70 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: five minute break from me to look it up. I'm 71 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: still not sure. Anyway, A whole bunch of different red 72 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,239 Speaker 1: seaweeds produce carragenens and are farmed or harvested for that purpose. 73 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: To extract the caragenans, basically, very basically, you you dry 74 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: the seaweed, You wash it and then heat it with 75 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: water that has been treated to be alkaline, and then 76 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: these complex starches will wash out. You can then filter 77 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: them and wash them down with an alcohol to like 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: dehydrate and purify them, then dry that to obtain like 79 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: basically like a sheet of hard fiber that you can 80 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: grind to whatever particle size you want, and that is 81 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: what food producers buy to incorporate into their recipes. And 82 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: I did say basically and emphasized because I am like 83 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: hell of simplifying this process. The specific ways that carragenen 84 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: is extracted are guarded trade secrets, like like Willie wonk 85 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: a level guarded because it is an exacting and expensive process. 86 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: And there are actually six different grades or forms of 87 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: carrageen in that all have slightly different properties that are 88 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: produced depending on the exact process that you use. So 89 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: so yeah, the three grades most commonly used for our 90 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: purposes are Kappa, Iota, and Lambda. But I am not 91 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: getting into all that. That is part of that stuff 92 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: that I said earlier. You can look into it if 93 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: you want to. We're ostensibly a food show speaking of 94 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: It's yeah, used to make jellies and puddings and as 95 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: a binding or gelling agent in all kinds of processed foods, 96 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: from like chocolate milk or just regular milk oat milk 97 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: stuff like that ice cream, to baby food to chocolate, 98 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: to canned pet foods. It's also used in personal care 99 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: products like toothpaste. For texture, in pharmaceuticals like pills, for 100 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: the extended release of drugs, and in cosmetics to make 101 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: them gel up or stay stable. Yes, multipurpose jello like 102 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: you said, oh yeah, oh yeah, m Well what about 103 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: the nutrition? Who this one? This one is contested and complicated. Um, 104 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: all right, it's been generally assumed the kergenen like cellulose 105 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: is not broken down by our digestive system, that it's 106 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: like nutritionally null. Yeah, cellulose is dietary fiber which has 107 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: been shown to be like physically useful in our guts. Yeah, 108 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: basically again emphasizing that there has not been enough research 109 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: into what happens to carogen in in our digestive system 110 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: to say whether our bodies break it down or not. 111 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: And the contentious part here comes in because Okay, when 112 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: you extract carrageenen with alkaloids, as I described, you get 113 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: like nice, sturdy, normal krogenan, But when you extract it 114 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: with acids, it can degrade into what's called polygenen, which 115 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: is an inflammatory agent and can cause ulcers and cancers 116 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: to develop. There's been concern that stomach acid can do this, 117 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: but so far studies have not shown that this is 118 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: what actually happens in our bodies, and so carogenans are 119 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: generally recognized as safe. If you find that eating foods 120 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: that contain kagenin gives you digestive upset, don't don't eat 121 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: those foods. Don't do that. But yeah, savor motto. Bodies 122 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: are complicated and more research is necessary, indeed, and we will, Yeah, 123 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: we're going to talk more about that in the history section. 124 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: We sure are. We do have some numbers for you, 125 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: we do, okay, because it is a major structural component 126 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: of the seaweeds that produce it. Karagenen's makeup between thirty 127 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: and seventy five percent of the dry weight of those seaweeds. Wow, yeah, yeah, 128 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: And a bunch of our other numbers are going are 129 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: like in demonstration of the way that this industry has 130 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: grown over the past like twenty to forty years. So okay. 131 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: As of nineteen eighty four, over just over forty three 132 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: thousand metric tons of seaweed were produced for kerragenen every year, 133 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: and as of nineteen ninety one, the industry was worth 134 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,359 Speaker 1: about one hundred million bucks a year. Right, but kagenen 135 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: use rose five times just from two to twenty ten. Yeah. Yeah, 136 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: like like like five times an increase. Yeah. And around 137 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: the same period that the number of scientific publications investigating 138 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: Keragenen's doubled, only about sixteen percent of those publications are 139 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: about food science and technology, though the majority have to 140 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: do with medical science. Um. And and I will say that, 141 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: like the potential medical applications of Karagenen's are really cool. Um, 142 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: other than in like pills and stuff like I was 143 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: just talking about, um there being they're they're being used 144 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: as like a like a wound covering, like like for 145 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: wound treatments. And also they're one of the substances being 146 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: investigated for like three D printing organs and healing bones 147 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So oh so cool, very cool 148 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: anyway cool. Yes, yes, and two hundred thousand tons of 149 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: seedweed was harvested for kagen in in twenty sixteen, so yes, 150 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: pretty meteoric rise. Yeah here yeah, yeah, I am so 151 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: excited to get into this history section all of this. 152 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: I just y'all know, like we're nerds and this just 153 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: makes me so happy. Yes, oh yes, And we will 154 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: get into that history section, but first we're gonna get 155 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: into a quick break for word from our sponsor and 156 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. So 157 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: seaweed and it's many other uses separates gosh, yes, yes, 158 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: because very specific things we could talk about in that 159 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: wide gategory oh yeah yeah. But briefly, historians believe humans 160 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: have been harvesting seaweeds like condris crippus. I'm gonna go 161 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: with it, which is what karagin and balls under four 162 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: around fourteen thousand years. Yes, that is one of the 163 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: primary Yeah, red seaweeds used for the production of this. Yes, exactly. 164 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: There's evidence of it being used but disinally in China 165 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: that goes back to six hundred BC, and people living 166 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: in the British Isles where it grows natively, we're eating 167 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: seaweed by four hundred BC. And this thick seaweed, which 168 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: was sometimes referred to as Irish moss, flourishes along these coastlines, 169 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: and particularly on Ireland's coastline. Like imagine kind of a 170 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: rocky coastline and they're growing up in between the rocks. Yeah, 171 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: it has been cultivated along this coast four hundreds of 172 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: years at least, and use medicinally and in foods due 173 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: to these gelling properties that it has and I found 174 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: a lot of things about this. Allegedly, the name derived 175 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: from kagen, an Irish word meaning little rock, or I 176 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: read in another place meaning rock moss. Yeah, and that 177 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: word popped up around eighteen twenty nine and might have 178 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: come from the place name Carrigan Head, which is a 179 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: cape in northwest Ireland. In nineteen sixty two, a British 180 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: pharmacist by the name of Edward Stanford introduced the term 181 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: karaginnin with an ion at the end to refer to 182 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: the gel that he extracted from Irish moss. We changed 183 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: the spelling to an in the nineteen sixties or thereabouts 184 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: to conform to nomenclature for the type of starch that 185 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: they are, which is a polysaccharidem Again, we're a food show. 186 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: Fun times, yeah, fun times with Irish pronunciations as well. 187 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: So oh also, yes, I'm so sorry. Okay, I hope, 188 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: I hope that I'm not butchering everything this episode. We 189 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: are we are. By the nineteenth century, the Irish used 190 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: karagenen as a cure for the common colds and symptoms 191 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: that came with it, and they used it too to 192 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: heal sick calves. They also used it in foods, and 193 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: so the basic process for making karagenan at the time 194 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: in that area went like this. So you would harvest 195 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: the seaweed, you would lay it out to try wash it, 196 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: boil it, and then add it to all kinds of 197 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: things from tonics, including hot toddies with whiskey and lemons, 198 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: a cure for colds and the like, flawns I read 199 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: in places, yeah, beers, and as an ingredient in the 200 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: traditional Irish pudding blamage. I hope I'm getting that correct. 201 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: A nineteenth century cookbook for the Sick included a recipe 202 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: for this dish, adding that it has a smell quote 203 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: resembling the odor of the sea, which many like. And 204 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: it's interesting use these recipes from the early nineteen hundreds. 205 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: This is a milk based pudding that extracts the karaghen 206 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: in by simmering the seaweed in milk, which is an 207 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: alkaline substance. So there you go. Um yeah. Then add 208 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: like a little bit of lemon or vanilla extract for flavor. 209 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: So so simples are nice, huh. And Kerrigan also played 210 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: an important role during the Irish potato famine of the 211 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, as a way to boost autrition, because people 212 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: would make this fortified drink by adding red seaweed to 213 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: a mixture of warm milk, sugar, and spices. And from 214 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: what I read, you can still find this drink in 215 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: parts of Ireland and the Caribbean. People that left Ireland 216 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: for the US during the famine arrived just as the 217 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: first seaweed farms were getting underway off the coast of Massachusetts. Yeah, 218 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: and this wouldn't be This would be a little bit 219 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: extra filling. Again, pretty much nutritionally void, but would help 220 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: fill you up, so sure. Yeah. Karagin In, though didn't 221 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: take off in the US until World War Two, when 222 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: shortages hit a similar ingredient agar and people were looking 223 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: for a suitable substitute karagenen. By the mid nineteen hundreds, 224 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: kagen in was an ingredient in all sorts of things, 225 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: from chocolate milks to ice creams to frozen foods. The 226 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: FDA approved karagenan's as safe in nineteen sixty one, and 227 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: then that was followed by several other institutions in countries 228 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: also saying that yes, this is a safe ingredient, and 229 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: in more recent years, kara geden is commonly used in 230 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: vegan and organic products. And this is where some of 231 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: that controversy comes in that you mentioned Lauren, yeah in 232 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: the nutrition section, yeah, yes, and some calls for bands. 233 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: So this is indeed very complicated. But basically, some scientists 234 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: produced evidence that they argued suggested that kara genen's caused 235 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: inflammation and may even lead to things like colitis, IBS 236 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: and coon cancer. Other scientists, though, refuted this evidence as 237 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: flawed and misleading. But as often goes with these things, 238 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: some consumers called for a band. You know, you read 239 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: those headlines and you're like wow, You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, 240 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: and then some companies in response did remove move it 241 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: from their products. In twenty sixteen, the National Organic Standards Board, 242 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: which is a citizens advisory group that issues recommendations to 243 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: the USDA, voted that karagenen be removed from the ingredients 244 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: and products that can receive the USDA Organic label, and 245 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, the FDA confirmed that karagenen can be 246 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: used safely in food products. So it's been a real 247 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: back and forth yeah with this, Yeah, so right, like, 248 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: like what happened here is that some research came out 249 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: from laboratory studies and some animal studies, so no studies 250 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: in living humans, but rather in tissue samples and in animals. 251 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: Some research came out that yes, the polygenans that I 252 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: was talking about earlier can be produced from contact with 253 00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: acids and can have these negative results. However, the flip side, 254 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: like the scientists refuting this as as being flawed and misleading. 255 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: They're saying like, well, but you didn't. You weren't looking 256 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: at humans. You weren't looking at like in live human studies. 257 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: That's not what you were doing. So saying that they're 258 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: dangerous is we can't say that yet. We don't. We 259 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: don't know. But right like the controversy, I missed all 260 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: of this happening. By the way, apparently they're like all 261 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: of these uh like blogs from around like twenty sixteen 262 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: to twenty eighteen that are debating it, and I missed 263 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: the whole thing. So I feel real proud of me 264 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: for that one. Actually, I'm like, uh, fluid undergurator. Other 265 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: things are happening in those d Yeah, yeah, but it's 266 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: it's still ongoing, still a conversation. Yeah, I'm sure we'll 267 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: have more to say about it, but for now, I 268 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: think that's pretty much what we got about carrageen in 269 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 1: that is uh we if if you have any thoughts 270 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 1: or feelings about it, um, if they're if you use 271 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: it in your own kitchen, please tell me about that. 272 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: Oh my back. If you happen to be a research 273 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: human who has looked into any of this, ah geez, 274 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: that's so cool. Um. But right, yeah, for now, that's 275 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: what we've got. We do have some listener mail for you, though, 276 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: we do, and we will get into that after one 277 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: more quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 278 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you, And we're 279 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: back with Yes, it's not really accurate. It's like not 280 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: quite the right seaweed I think, but that's that's fine. 281 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: I got like a like a bubbling from the deep 282 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: kind of kind of vibe. That's fun. Yeah, it works 283 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: for either seaweed or you, Kulu. Ah, well that's what 284 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm always going for, you know me. Yeah. So our 285 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: first message is from I think Shamus. Again, it wasn't signed, 286 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: but that was the name in the email address, so okay, 287 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: whoever it was, thank you, And they wrote about our 288 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: turtle episode. I just listened to that episode and you 289 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: were not kidding about the wild twist and turns that 290 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: were coming. When I got back home, I couldn't resist 291 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: telling everyone else in the house about it. So now 292 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: everyone knows that prohibitiondn't save the urt. I have to 293 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: share one of my favorite notes from Miss Leslie's Directions 294 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: for Cookery eighteen thirty seven. She has a recipe from 295 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: mock turtle soup made with a calf's head and writes 296 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: this underneath, we omit a recipe for real turtle soup. 297 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: As when that very expensive, complicated, and difficult dish is 298 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: prepared in a private family, it is advisable to hire 299 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: a first rate cook for the express purpose. An easy 300 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: way is to get it ready made in any quantity 301 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: you please from a turtle soup house. It's the only 302 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: time in the entire book that she tells people to 303 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: just get take out. I love that, don't even try. Yeah, like, man, 304 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: I'll get that one from Yeah. Yeah you're not gonna 305 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: like it. Yeah you're not gonna You're gonna be mad 306 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: at the end. Yeah, Yeah, it's not worth it. Have 307 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: let someone else deal with the turtle. Yeah that's pretty 308 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: good legit. Oh thank you? Yeah, yes, I do always 309 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: love like like there are some episodes that I'm like, oh, 310 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: that was a fun episode. That was fine. Um, And 311 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: then there are some episodes where like everyone that I 312 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: know has to hear about whatever it is for the 313 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: next week because I'm like, have you heard about turtle soup? 314 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: And they're like, no, wife, Oh, Lauren's gonna tell us 315 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: all about turtle soup. Yes, yeah, that is true, Joe wrote, 316 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: you asked and I am answering the call for sherry 317 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: memories both come from trips abroad. The first one I 318 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: studied abroad in the south of France. One of our 319 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: field trips was to the lovely seaside town of Cassis. 320 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm saying that right, Yeah, Cassis, not far from Marseilles. 321 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: We took a boat tour of the famous Colin Kay 322 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: steep and narrow limestone inlets along the coast in the morning, 323 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: and basked on the beach in the afternoon. As students, 324 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: we would usually go for cheaper lunch options, like sandwiches 325 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: from the boulangerie bakeries, but for this trip, I was 326 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: putting my foot down. We were by the sea, and 327 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: by golly, did I want a proper sit down meal 328 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: with local seafood. Some of my classmates were of the 329 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: same mind. Because a small group of us wandered the 330 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: narrow streets of Cassis in search of lunch, we ended 331 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: up in a tiny place with the most wonderful and 332 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: welcoming proprietor, whose name I unfortunately cannot remember. What I 333 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: do remember is how genuinely delighted he was that we 334 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: were learning French, and how kind he was with our 335 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: stumbling attempts at conversation. After an incredible seafood soup, he 336 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: presented our group with complimentary digestifs, an alcoholic drink served 337 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: after a meal believed to help with digestion. For the 338 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: men in our group, it was either brandy or port, 339 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: and for us ladies it was sherry. It went down 340 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: so smoothly, and I was surprised at how good it tasted. 341 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: It was the perfect end to a meal that I 342 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: still think of as one of the best I've ever had. 343 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: The second sherry memory comes from Spain. A visit to 344 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: Seville or Saviller was my first trip abroad since COVID started. 345 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: As we wandered through beautifully tiered tree lined squares, the 346 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: trees were usually bitter orange trees laden with fruit. Our 347 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: tour guide mentioned that we had just missed the Feria Diabrille, 348 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: a famous festival in Seville. One of the key features 349 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: of the festival is its chosen drink, the Rebuhithel. It 350 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: comes from the word ari bujar to jumble or mix up. 351 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: She said that Saville will get so hot that you 352 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: need an icy, refreshing cocktail to make it through the festivities. 353 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: So the Rebelhitho is a favorite. It's a mixture of 354 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: sprite and dry sherry a fino or menzania, topped with mint. 355 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: I've read that ratio's differ, but half and half or 356 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: one part sherry to two parts sprite are the most common. 357 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: Can confirm the weather was meltingly hot when we were there, 358 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: and Rebelhitho would have hit the spot. Alas, I was 359 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: not able to enjoy one until I was back in 360 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: the US, where I promptly hunted down some fino, sherry 361 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: and sprite and shared it with friends at a dinner party. 362 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: And oh wow, there is just something about the complex 363 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: flavors of the sherry mixed with the sprite, and now 364 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: it's become my go to summer cocktail. Give it a try, 365 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: I think you'll love it too. Oh, I never would 366 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: have thought of pairing that, but same, I bet, like 367 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: in the summer, you know, Atlantic, it's pretty hot in 368 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: the summer, so I'm sure I'll be looking for a 369 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: refreshing cock it does. Oh yeah, My go too is 370 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: to put soda water, like just playing soda water in 371 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: pretty much anything to make it a fun cocktail. Um 372 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: and I and I never I'm so fascinated by the 373 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: way that the countries outside of the US deal with 374 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: like American soda pop um because I feel like there's 375 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: like a different vibe to it in other places, Like 376 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: I it's I consider it like like it really reminds 377 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: me of childhood, Like it's kind of like a kid's 378 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: drink in my head, and I feel like that is 379 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: not what it's considered in a lot of other countries. 380 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, very interesting, yeah yeah, oh but yeah, but right, 381 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: like I bet like like a little lemon lime flavor, 382 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: a nice, nice dry sherry hoof, yes, And also that 383 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's not like out of that ordinary. But 384 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: I have been craving some fresh seafood and some fresh 385 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: seafood by like the coast, right, Oh, that sounds so lovely. Yeah. 386 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I haven't. I haven't traveled since COVID. 387 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: Um yeah, um, we're we're talking about taking a work 388 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: trip soon and it's going to be the first time 389 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: I'll have been on a plane since the shutdown, which 390 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: is wild and gosh. Now I want that so hard. 391 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: I know, I know. Maybe we can make it happen. Okay, 392 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: we can make it happen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the meantime, 393 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: thank you to both of these listeners for writing in. 394 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can 395 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: our emails hello at savorpod dot com. We are also 396 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, 397 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: and Instagram at saverpod, and we do hope to hear 398 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts 399 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: to my Heartradio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 400 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 401 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks 402 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: to you for listening, and we hope that lots more 403 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: good things are coming your way.