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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Yeah. I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: be joined by Sarah ponzac here, cross asset reporter. As

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Speaker 1: we get into dig into the markets, I want to

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Speaker 1: get over to the CEO of Beckton Dickinson joining us

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Speaker 1: to talk about the global medical technology companies strides in

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Speaker 1: helping to fight the pandemic that is COVID. Nineteen. Tom

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Speaker 1: Poland joins us right now, and Tom really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: I know this must have been an incredibly busy uh

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Speaker 1: year and now year and a half for you. Um

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Speaker 1: where do you stand right now in the fight against COVID.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Madden and Sarah for for having me. So

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Speaker 1: Bedias has a very broad um roll in in combating COVID,

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Speaker 1: and we we have been busy from the start, not

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Speaker 1: only working closely when we're a global company, and so

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Speaker 1: I had a role whether or not the outbreaks in

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Speaker 1: China through Europe to the US. We've been on the

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Speaker 1: front lines right from the start. Today we are a

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Speaker 1: major provider of solutions for rapid diagnosis of COVID with

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Speaker 1: fifteen minute point of care tests as well as molecular

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Speaker 1: tests which we've enabled u of any patient who ends

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Speaker 1: up in an ICU with COVID will be touched by

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Speaker 1: one of our devices, and so we have a major

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Speaker 1: role there. And today we're very, very actively focused on

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Speaker 1: ramping up production of syringes. As the world leader in

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Speaker 1: syringes for delivering vaccines. We've committed to make an incremental

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Speaker 1: one billion syringes this year specifically for providing COVID doses

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Speaker 1: to COVID vaccine doses around the world. So this is

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Speaker 1: how we're so lucky to have you today, because not

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Speaker 1: only do you manufacture medical tools, you guys have been

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Speaker 1: at the forefront of creating COVID nineteen testing diagnostics as well. So,

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Speaker 1: with that said, seeing the production ramp up, where do

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Speaker 1: we stand now and not just the fight against COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: but also when it comes to COVID nineteen testing diagnostics.

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Speaker 1: Clearly we have come a very very far away in

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Speaker 1: the matter of matter of a year. Absolutely mean, we

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Speaker 1: went from not having any tests really to diagnosed covid

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Speaker 1: given it it really wasn't relevant before two we for example,

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Speaker 1: we normally take it takes about three years to develop

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Speaker 1: a new diagnostic test, and we were able to do

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Speaker 1: so in three months and ramp up production. We're a

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Speaker 1: leader in rapid testing for flu testing traditionally and have

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Speaker 1: been so for for over ten years. And let's say

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Speaker 1: in a normal year of flu, we may make ten

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Speaker 1: ten million tests in a very severe flu season, maybe

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Speaker 1: eight million tests in a normal flu year. We quickly

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Speaker 1: ramped up to make ten million tests a month um

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Speaker 1: for COVID testing, so very significant increases. And I think today, um,

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Speaker 1: what's very positive is is that testing capacity exists right

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Speaker 1: that we've passed the point where testing capacity is an issue.

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Speaker 1: There's more capacity than there is requirements today and I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's obviously a great thing. We're seeing really

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Speaker 1: good success with the vaccine deployment as well, and I

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Speaker 1: think we'll continue to see progress there um. And of

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Speaker 1: course today testing is beginning to shift a bit from

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Speaker 1: the focus on testing symptomatic patients to beginning to focus

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Speaker 1: on testing to help reopen the economy and schools and

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Speaker 1: businesses and the like. So in terms of the company,

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Speaker 1: what do you need to do? Two um, impress investors

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Speaker 1: a little bit more. Tom, I look at the chart

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Speaker 1: of Beckon Dickinson stock versus the SMP and versus the

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Speaker 1: health care sector, and you've underperformed from the beginning of why.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Yeah, it's it's a matter.

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Speaker 1: It's good question. I think in fairness, there was a

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Speaker 1: we had a quality issue when we when I first

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Speaker 1: took over in the first week that we were addressing

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Speaker 1: and that that has been overhanging the stock. As we

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Speaker 1: look at being able to get that submitted and resolved,

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Speaker 1: which is forthcoming here UM in the in the next

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Speaker 1: quarter or two. We've communicated very clearly, I think that

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Speaker 1: that will be a very positive factor for the stock.

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Speaker 1: And then as we think going forward, we continue to

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Speaker 1: execute on our strategy around driving new innovations into the

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Speaker 1: marketplace for growth. Of course, we're driving a lot of

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Speaker 1: new solutions to help address the COVID pandemic and that

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Speaker 1: that will take care of itself. This is obviously our

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Speaker 1: aim strategy and to be very fair to you, Tom,

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Speaker 1: you took over the CEO roll at a pretty difficult time.

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Speaker 1: You cond say, I mean right when COVID nineteen was

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Speaker 1: really beginning. Would you say that you have a philosophy

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Speaker 1: or a theme as to how you're approaching the chief

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Speaker 1: executive officer role at b D and has that changed

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Speaker 1: over the past year as we have had to deal

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Speaker 1: with the pandemic. But I think for us, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: come out stronger at the after the pandemic in terms

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Speaker 1: of how we've used the challenge to be able to

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Speaker 1: accelerate how we think about growth in our culture and

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Speaker 1: our company. The example of being able to develop an

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Speaker 1: essay in three months that normally takes three years, being

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Speaker 1: able to scale production of products like i V sets

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Speaker 1: and syringes at unprecedented rates and levels um shows really

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Speaker 1: unleashes and demonstrates the agility that we have as a

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Speaker 1: large company. And what we're very focused on is maintaining

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Speaker 1: that momentum in as the world gets control of COVID,

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Speaker 1: and we can see a lot of momentum um that

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Speaker 1: we've built over that period time, whether or not it's

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Speaker 1: very much larger installation footprints of our point of care

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Speaker 1: devices because of COVID that now we're adding additional menu

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Speaker 1: to same thing on our molecular footprint side, or how

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Speaker 1: we're for example, expanding our pharmaceutical systems business and being

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Speaker 1: able to create new injection device capacity as ultimately COVID

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Speaker 1: vaccines will migrate into pre filled syringes, will create opportunities

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Speaker 1: for us to help the world on a long term

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Speaker 1: basis there as well. So, UM, we definitely see COVID

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Speaker 1: has properly has given I think the world in many

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Speaker 1: businesses an opportunity to to think differently about growth and

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Speaker 1: accelerate growth over the long term. All right, Tom, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Appreciate your time here. Tom

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Speaker 1: Poland is the president CEO of the global medical technology

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Speaker 1: company b D. Beckon, Dickinson and Company. Sara Pontze are

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Speaker 1: cross Asset Report. Her is joining me today is UM.

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Speaker 1: We wish Paul a very happy Paul Sweeney out on

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Speaker 1: very well deserved KA day. We have seen Sarah some

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Speaker 1: amazing moves in the oil market today and we want

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Speaker 1: to bring in Ellen Wall to talk about that. She

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Speaker 1: is president of Transversal Consulting. She's also a Bloomberg Opinion contributor,

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Speaker 1: and I guess Allen Transversal is uh sort of the

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Speaker 1: intersection between geopolitics and energy policy? Is that? Is that fair? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. We're a boutique consulting firm that does

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Speaker 1: work in the energy policy and geopolitics and energy markets sphere.

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Speaker 1: So what do you make of today's OPEC meeting? They

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Speaker 1: agreed to keep output unchanged in April, but we have

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Speaker 1: a jump of five or more on the underlying crude contracts. Yeah. Wow,

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Speaker 1: this was This was a surprise, I think to most

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Speaker 1: to most people going into this meeting because we saw

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Speaker 1: a lot of headlines seeing that OPEQ was poised to

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Speaker 1: kind of cool off an oil market that looks like

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Speaker 1: it was about to overheat in prices, and instead, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're basically seem like they're about to fan the flames. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It does look like Russia is going to get some

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Speaker 1: kind of special permission to increase production about a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand barrels a day. Uh. They say they need this

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Speaker 1: for domestic consumption, but when you look at the overall

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Speaker 1: oil market, that's not all that much. Plus, so you've

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Speaker 1: got that one million barrels a day that Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: is holding off the market and they haven't heard for

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Speaker 1: sure about that. And uh we know that the Saudi

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Speaker 1: oil minister likes to uh make a splash and uh

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Speaker 1: have a surprise at the press conference. Uh there is

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Speaker 1: talk that the saudiast could actually decide to hold that

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Speaker 1: oil off the market for April as well. And what

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Speaker 1: a long strange trip it has been for oil prices.

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Speaker 1: I mean, less than a year ago in April, we

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Speaker 1: are talking about negative oil prices after another OPEC surprise.

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Speaker 1: Today we get a surprise to the upside. And I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at w t I crude oil now trading at

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Speaker 1: the highest level since April. Like you said, they want

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Speaker 1: the opposite way, possibly fanning the flames of overheating. What

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Speaker 1: comes next after this, well, I think now we need

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Speaker 1: to we need to start talking about the fact that

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Speaker 1: UM gas prices in the United States could um we

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Speaker 1: could be seeing average prices in the US hitting three

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Speaker 1: dollars a gallon, which is a significant amount of money

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Speaker 1: for people who aren't used to paying that much. Plus

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Speaker 1: we've got that on top of by the way, I laugh,

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Speaker 1: ha ha, I laugh from here in Berlin. Three dollars

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Speaker 1: a gallon. What I wouldn't do for three dollar a

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Speaker 1: gallon gasoline? Yeah, well, well in Florida where I am,

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Speaker 1: I think it's about to sixty right now, so um

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Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's it's a big deal. I think

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people that are still very much

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Speaker 1: hurting from uh from the economic consequences of the pandemic

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Speaker 1: and UH, that could really pose some some hardship to people,

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Speaker 1: particularly this summer when gasoline prices generally rise. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you have to look at US production. Typically when when

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Speaker 1: oil prices rise like this, we see US production uh

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Speaker 1: increasing and kicking into here. But we've really had oil

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Speaker 1: basically holding study in the US about eleven million barrels today.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the big producers are saying that they

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Speaker 1: are not planning any increases. But you know, with w

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Speaker 1: T I uh, you know, up at sixty four dollars

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Speaker 1: a barrel, I really don't see how how they can

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Speaker 1: maintain this discipline. How you know, anyone with with with

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Speaker 1: some money, can you hire a hire a crew and

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Speaker 1: get something going down in Texas if there's money to

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Speaker 1: be made. So I wouldn't be surprised if, um, if

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Speaker 1: we do see production kicking up somewhat in the US

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Speaker 1: in response to these higher prices. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: you've also got to look at India and China, which

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Speaker 1: India is really a most taking OPAC to increase production

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Speaker 1: because of rising prices there, and you have to really say, well,

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Speaker 1: what is that going to do to their economies and

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Speaker 1: to their economic recovery. I'm paying about seven fifty seven

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Speaker 1: I think in dollars a gallon, and my truck uses

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Speaker 1: about uh well, I'm so used to thinking about in

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Speaker 1: European ways, so you know, like sometimes thirty leaders for

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Speaker 1: a hundred kilometers, but I guess it's about ten miles

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Speaker 1: per gallon is what I get in my truck. So

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Speaker 1: and nonetheless, um, ellen, I will be driving as much

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Speaker 1: as I can when this lockdown is done. You know,

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Speaker 1: a huge carbon footprint because I need to get out.

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Speaker 1: I've been cooped up for so long. Is that you

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Speaker 1: think the same for everybody else? Well, I think in

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Speaker 1: the US, and maybe a little different because some places

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Speaker 1: have been open for a long time. But I do

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Speaker 1: think that we are going to see a third. Um,

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Speaker 1: We're still looking at a deficit in jet fuel demand

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Speaker 1: because air travel is not picking up the same way

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Speaker 1: road travel will be. And I think that given continuing restrictions,

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Speaker 1: that we're still going to see jet fuel not really

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Speaker 1: recovering two pre pandemic levels anytime soon. But so the

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Speaker 1: question is can can gasoline demand make up for that?

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Speaker 1: And in some in some respects it definitely can make

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Speaker 1: up for some of that UH deficit. But what we're

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Speaker 1: really looking at is actually plastics, and we've seen an

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Speaker 1: increase in production in the United States in terms of

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Speaker 1: of plastic, single use plastics especially, and that's actually um

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Speaker 1: taking up some of that UH deficit in jet field demand.

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Speaker 1: I will say that, although I have a large carbon footprint,

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Speaker 1: I'm very much against plastics, so I try and balance out,

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Speaker 1: you know, my eco activism in that sense. Allan, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much, Ellen Warred. They're joining us from transversal consulting.

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Speaker 1: She's also a Bloomberg opinion columnist. Sarah Ponzak. I'm so

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Speaker 1: proud that you used a grateful dead reference. I had

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Speaker 1: a feeling that you might you might like that. You

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Speaker 1: must just about five when Jerry died, but I appreciate it. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: oil trading up five percent at sixty even Matt Miller

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Speaker 1: here in Berlin alongside Sarah Ponzak in New York. We

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Speaker 1: are joined by former portfolio manager and head of research

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Speaker 1: at Rubicon Fund Management, who uh has written, Richard Cookson,

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Speaker 1: who has written a pretty amazing column i'd say for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion. Richard, I am, you know, as a professional journalist,

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Speaker 1: a sensationalist. I love alarmism and if you if you

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Speaker 1: say black Monday is coming, that just gets me going.

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Speaker 1: So why do you think we're headed for possibly a

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Speaker 1: crash the likes of which we haven't seen since n Well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't quite what it. The tong is? Does that

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Speaker 1: the actually what I said, the mechanism is quite similar.

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Speaker 1: And I did go back to night in seven. Do

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Speaker 1: you have as many gray hairs as I have? Um?

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Speaker 1: What was the big driving factor in October seven was

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Speaker 1: something called portfolio insurance where these guys called Layland and

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Speaker 1: Brown and Rubinstein decided he didn't need to buy options.

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Speaker 1: You could go and replicate them and they told you

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Speaker 1: how much you needed to sell. And basically what happened

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Speaker 1: was that you've got this force selling into markets, the

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Speaker 1: mechanistic selling. Now. I say that because actually if you

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Speaker 1: look at every single bank and large institutions risk management.

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Speaker 1: There's something called value at risk, and very simply, what

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Speaker 1: this does is it looks at the last year that

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Speaker 1: you can use longer and it says, okay, what's the

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Speaker 1: volatility over that time period, and what's the correlation of

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Speaker 1: that time period, and you whagged all that in the

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Speaker 1: transiard and number. Now, if those volatilities start to start

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Speaker 1: to go up, and if correlations starts to shift, then

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Speaker 1: mechanistically you're going to get some selling. You can put

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Speaker 1: more capital in, but actually, guess what, when you're losing money,

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Speaker 1: you tend just to sell. So it's the same sort

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Speaker 1: of mechanistic process. In other words, particularly if those correlations flipped.

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Speaker 1: So what you've seen is equity markets falling at the

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Speaker 1: same time as long dated treasury bonds falling. That is

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Speaker 1: a real problem because they assume that most of the time,

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Speaker 1: and most I mean of the time, that's not going

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Speaker 1: to happen. So you're assuming that it it happens only on

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Speaker 1: five percentifications it's happening more than five percent. So you're

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Speaker 1: starting to see forced selling in both markets now the

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Speaker 1: longer term typically because typically um investors see at least

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Speaker 1: in my young lifetime, I'm not even I'm not even

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Speaker 1: fifty yet. Investors see bonds as a safe haven for

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Speaker 1: when stocks are coming down. So um, you buy bonds

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Speaker 1: when you're worried about selling stocks, and you can get

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Speaker 1: read of your bonds when you want to buy equities.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that, and that that has kind of looked

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Speaker 1: like it's changing over the last couple of weeks. Well, again,

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Speaker 1: it's a very interesting question that that that negative correlation

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Speaker 1: between the two, because before about that was positive. In

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Speaker 1: other words, for decades. Previously, it tended to to tend

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Speaker 1: to go in tandem. In other words, trojury bonds sold

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Speaker 1: off at the same time as equities and vice versa.

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Speaker 1: Now that changed. The best evidence suggests that it changed

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Speaker 1: because you had disinflacetory pressures, and I think you've got

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Speaker 1: far more inflationary pressures coming through at a time when

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Speaker 1: both equities and bonds are very expensive. So you're relying

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Speaker 1: upon a correlation that has actually only been um there

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Speaker 1: for the last twenty years or so to protect yourself. Now,

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Speaker 1: all I'm saying is that if you have those correlations

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Speaker 1: flipping the other way around, from a risk management point

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Speaker 1: of view, you're going to be able to less of

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Speaker 1: both because they're not losses in one is not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to offset again to the other and

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Speaker 1: vice versa. I can see. And what's interesting, it's such

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Speaker 1: an interesting we could have this conversation for an hour,

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Speaker 1: right because it's so weird that disinflation worries happened in

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Speaker 1: like after Paul Walker, all of a sudden, woot disinflation.

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Speaker 1: It was the opposite of what he's famous for. So, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: what do you think watching Paul Worker was the early Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Paul Worker was remember the early eighties. It was really

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Speaker 1: when China came along um and added surface capacity to

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Speaker 1: the to the world economy, got these disinflationary pressures coming through.

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Speaker 1: And if you look over the last twenty years, what

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Speaker 1: changed for America has been you've got this persistent disinflation

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Speaker 1: coming through from importants. So all I'm saying is that

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Speaker 1: actually you're starting to get some inflationy pressures coming through,

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Speaker 1: both because of the supply side shocks from the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: but also you've got central banks um pretty money on

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Speaker 1: a fairly unprecedented scale. Add at the same time telling

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Speaker 1: we're not going to work, which is either them being

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Speaker 1: stupid or mendacious possible combination, and we do see five

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Speaker 1: year break even inflation expectations now at the highest level

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight. Just last week, speaking of

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Speaker 1: that flipping correlations, we actually saw real yields and US

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Speaker 1: equities the correlation between the two dropping to the most

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Speaker 1: negative level in five years. And I would love to

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Speaker 1: read a really quick excerpt from your opinion piece, Richard,

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Speaker 1: where you say the bigger point, however, is this this disinflation.

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Speaker 1: Disinflationary forces that help propel assets higher are turning into

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Speaker 1: inflationary ones. And if that leads to a shift in

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Speaker 1: bond equity correlations that seems to be happening, institutions big

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Speaker 1: and small will have to stump up more capital or

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Speaker 1: reduce risk across the board. But my question to that is,

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Speaker 1: if you need to reduce risk, but you can't go

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Speaker 1: to bonds because all of a sudden, bonds and stocks

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Speaker 1: are moving in tandem, how do you actually go about

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Speaker 1: reducing risk? Right? You just have to be basically, and again,

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Speaker 1: it's not just bonds and equities, it's bombs and risk.

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Speaker 1: So if you look at you know, credit, or you

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Speaker 1: look at junk bombs, you'll find that actually there's a

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Speaker 1: very very strong relationship between the performance aspectory markets and

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Speaker 1: performance of credit. So actually what you need to do

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Speaker 1: in those sorts of situations is just to hold much

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Speaker 1: more cash and all by a lot of volatility. So

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Speaker 1: if you've noticed, even though you've seen a tear in

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Speaker 1: equity mark, volatility and equity marks between persistently bit and

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Speaker 1: that's what happens when you can't head with bombs. It's

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Speaker 1: I mean by holding much more cash isn't something you

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Speaker 1: want to do if you're truly worried about inflation, which

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Speaker 1: is driving this. I have to say at the at

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Speaker 1: the offset which are apologizing for dramaticizing your column, because

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Speaker 1: I didn't even have to. I think it's an incredibly

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Speaker 1: well thought out and well written peace and I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate you joining us, and I will recommend to all

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Speaker 1: of our listeners just check out if you have a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal in front of you O P I N

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Speaker 1: go to check out Richard's calum It's honestly, it's one

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Speaker 1: of the most interesting columns I've read on the opinion

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Speaker 1: page in uh In in a long time, and I

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Speaker 1: read opinion columns. Um you know regularly. It's probably my

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Speaker 1: favorite section on the Bloomberg terminal. So this value at risk. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know that we lay people became familiar with. I

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Speaker 1: think during the h and Coldman Sachs was called up

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Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill in front of Senator Carl Levin. UM.

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Speaker 1: I haven't really thought about it since then, and it's

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Speaker 1: really great to see UM and also a little bit scary,

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Speaker 1: honestly to see this because Sarah's question is good one.

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Speaker 1: What do you go to if you're worried about um

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Speaker 1: of our shock and cash is terrifying? Volatility is a

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Speaker 1: very interesting answer, and that's one I'm going to continue

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Speaker 1: to delve into with our guests UM throughout. Richard Cookson there.

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Speaker 1: He's a former portfolio manager and head of research at

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Speaker 1: Rubicon Fund Management and a Bloomberg opinion columnist for US.

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Speaker 1: Now check it out, O, P, I N go. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. All right, let's get over right now to

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Speaker 1: someone who might advise my parents if they had a

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Speaker 1: lot more money. Michael Sonnfeld joins US chairman of Tiger

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Speaker 1: twenty one on how the ultra wealthy are investing. And Michael,

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Speaker 1: it's especially interesting to ask you what you think of

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Speaker 1: the Elizabeth Warren tax plan. There are some very wealthy

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Speaker 1: people that are for a wealth tax um, but probably

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Speaker 1: more who think it's pretty Unamerican. What's your take? Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. Most of our members are entrepreneurs who

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Speaker 1: spent twenty thirty years creating businesses from scratch, their first

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Speaker 1: generation wealth creators, and the wealth tax would be in

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Speaker 1: their mind antithetical. Most of our members are willing to

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Speaker 1: pay taxes, even progressive taxes, so the more money you

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Speaker 1: make on income, the more you pay. But a wealth

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Speaker 1: tax creates a real problem for people who own businesses.

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Speaker 1: If you if you have everything tied up in a

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Speaker 1: business and they give you a wealth tax, you can't

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Speaker 1: sell two percent of a business or five percent of

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Speaker 1: a business. Uh. And if you look at yields on

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Speaker 1: a bond, if you have a wealth tax on top

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Speaker 1: of an income tax, you can't even break even on it.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of negatives and I don't think

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Speaker 1: it would improve the economy particularly right Well, clearly we

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Speaker 1: have a new presidential administration, and it will be interesting

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Speaker 1: down the line to see what the Biden tax plan

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Speaker 1: in actuality actually looks like and what the policies and

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Speaker 1: encompasses actually hold. I want to get to how many

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Speaker 1: of your members over at Tiger twenty one are actually

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Speaker 1: looking at markets and thinking about markets these days, you

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Speaker 1: release information on how your members are positioned, and something

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Speaker 1: that really jumped out at me was that only three

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Speaker 1: percent allocation to hedge funds, which is a historical low.

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Speaker 1: And I was hoping you could give us some color

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Speaker 1: on really what's driving this, what's behind this? Sure, this

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Speaker 1: is a this is a ten year low. Hedge funds

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Speaker 1: were more than twice as much as a proportion. But

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Speaker 1: hedge funds typically, although there are many strategies, in general

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Speaker 1: relate to the risk free or government rate, and when

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Speaker 1: you have very low rates, it's very hard for hedge

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Speaker 1: funds to produce the kind of historic returns that made

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Speaker 1: them stars. And then you have the compounding effect that

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Speaker 1: hedge funds generally have very high fees, which are acceptable

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Speaker 1: when they're delivering ten and fifteen and returns, but in

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Speaker 1: this very low interest rate environment, hedge funds just can't

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Speaker 1: produce there. They can't squeeze the juice enough to make

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Speaker 1: it attractive, and then it gets even hot harder when

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Speaker 1: you look at the fees. This is what our members

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Speaker 1: are doing in meetings is comparing the different opportunities, and uh,

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Speaker 1: they're just not adding up to hedge funds these days.

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Speaker 1: What about private equity, It's I think interesting that, um,

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Speaker 1: after real estate, your uh, your I guess group of

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Speaker 1: investors is most invested in private equity after in real estate,

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Speaker 1: and that's even better than public equity. Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary evolution. Are members over the last decade

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Speaker 1: have gone from low teens, ten eleven, twelve percent private

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Speaker 1: equity to it's the one area over the last decade

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Speaker 1: that has moved forward all the time. You know, are

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Speaker 1: members because our members are first, first generation wealth creators

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Speaker 1: and they come together in these groups they're comparing notes.

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Speaker 1: The three places they're most invested is real estate, as

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Speaker 1: you say, private equity, in public equity, those three still

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Speaker 1: add up to almost eighty percent, so they're fully invested.

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Speaker 1: But it's in the private equity where you can really

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Speaker 1: create wealth if you can roll up your shirt sleeves

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Speaker 1: and you have the skills to build businesses. It's the

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Speaker 1: small businesses that grow into business is that are big

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Speaker 1: enough to be owned or bought by public companies where

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Speaker 1: the largest amount of wealth is created, and that's what

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Speaker 1: our members represent. It's it's sort of making creating wealthy

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Speaker 1: the old time way in America. So lately you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the risk the rate of return. We've seen long end

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Speaker 1: rates rising. You now see rates at pre pandemic highs

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Speaker 1: where in the midst of the fastest quarterly increase in

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Speaker 1: tenure yield since would you say, though, that this move

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Speaker 1: is getting to a point where you or your members

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Speaker 1: would say, maybe this isn't such a great sign. You know, um,

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Speaker 1: most of our members are more entrepreneurs than investors. Their

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Speaker 1: skill sets are not as market based as they are

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Speaker 1: building businesses, and what they see is the potential of inflation.

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Speaker 1: Inflation hasn't happened in the last couple of years on

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Speaker 1: the wage side, and things that people buy, if you're

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Speaker 1: UH in terms of living have not gone up, but

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Speaker 1: assets have gone up. But look at just you just

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Speaker 1: mentioned a few minutes ago, lumber prices up a hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: There's recent reports that we might be in a commodity supercycle.

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Speaker 1: One example that we talked about in our groups is

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Speaker 1: that the whole inter the whole UH infrastructure is going

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Speaker 1: to be rewired for new energy copper is going to

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Speaker 1: be a long bet. That's amazing. So we could have

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Speaker 1: rising interest rates UH and inflation and I wouldn't bet

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Speaker 1: against it. Michael, thanks so much for joining us. Really

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Michael sonnon Felt, their chairman of Tiger.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

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00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three. Pet On Paul Sweeney, I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always

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Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio