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Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight for time convicted killer Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the.

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Speaker 1: Four beautiful sleeping University Idaho students that were slaughtered in

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Speaker 1: their beds?

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Speaker 2: That Brian Coburger tonight says.

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Speaker 1: I'm innocent and he wants to take back his guilty

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Speaker 1: plead whoa. Brian Coburger now says, they tricked me into

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Speaker 1: pleading guilty. I know I stood up in court and

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Speaker 1: I said I did it, but I didn't do it,

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Speaker 1: and that's my truth. He actually fixed his mouth to

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Speaker 1: say it's my truth. Good evening, I means he grace.

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Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. What in that age a double l

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Speaker 1: It is despicable and I cannot believe we're having to

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Speaker 1: talk about him now. For time convicted killer Brian Coberger

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Speaker 1: now claims he's in a scent because.

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Speaker 2: He's saying, basically, they lied to it.

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Speaker 3: Tell me what's going on one of our one of

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Speaker 3: the roommates who's passed out and he's drunk class and

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Speaker 3: shadn't wake me up?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 5: Oh, and they saw some man in their house house nice?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I are you with the patient? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.

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Speaker 4: Can I just tell you what happened pretty much?

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Speaker 1: What is going on currently as someone passed out right now?

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Speaker 3: I don't really know what pretty much for him.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I need to know.

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Speaker 7: What's going on right now.

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Speaker 8: If someone has passed out.

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Speaker 4: Can you find that out, y'all.

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Speaker 3: I'll come come with me to check.

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Speaker 2: They were not passed out.

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Speaker 1: They were all dead at the hands of Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 1: And tonight to further twist the families. He says he's

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Speaker 1: innocent and he wants a trial. And you know what

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Speaker 1: I say to that, missus Gonsolvis, bring it on. I

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Speaker 1: agree with him about one thing, Christy. Brian Coburger says

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Speaker 1: in his handwritten petition, justice was not served. True words

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Speaker 1: were never spoken. Justice was not served because he needs

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Speaker 1: the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: So he's right.

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Speaker 1: There's one phrase in this whole petition that is accurate.

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Speaker 1: Okay with me. You know them well. They are the

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Speaker 1: founders of murder has a name. This is in their

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Speaker 1: beautiful dollar daughter killing Gondsovas's memory, in her honor. She

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Speaker 1: was murdered by Brian Coburger and they are taking that

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Speaker 1: pain and transforming it into something good, raising money for

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Speaker 1: DNA kits to be handled and processed to stop killers

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Speaker 1: and get them off the street before more victims fall.

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Speaker 2: Prey. Christy is with us. Steve Gonsalvas is with us, Christy.

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Speaker 2: When did you find out?

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Speaker 1: Brian Coburger that pos technical legal term says, I'm innocent,

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Speaker 1: I was tricked.

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Speaker 2: I love this part, Christy that he was misled about

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Speaker 2: life behind bars.

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Speaker 1: Surprised Jille ain't what is cracked up to be?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he figured that out, didn't he? When did you

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Speaker 2: find out about this?

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Speaker 5: I found out pretty early on, about about an hour

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Speaker 5: before it start started.

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Speaker 9: Busting at the scenes on the media. Steve hat called me.

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Speaker 5: And I was in the middle of a Zoom meeting

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Speaker 5: for Murder as a Name, and I was like, Steve's

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Speaker 5: telling me, call me right away, call me out, and

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I gotta go, Like he doesn't say that,

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Speaker 5: And I called him and he told me, and I

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Speaker 5: was like, you know.

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Speaker 9: What is that happening now?

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Speaker 5: So took us a minute to find out what exactly

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Speaker 5: his allegations that he was having and the reasons for it.

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Speaker 5: But when we heard, we were like, the judge asked

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Speaker 5: you every single one of those questions. You know, so

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Speaker 5: where you go erst, where you promise anything, were you

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Speaker 5: on drugs?

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Speaker 10: You know?

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Speaker 5: And everything? And I mean, it's a plea deal. I

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Speaker 5: think it's pretty straightforward. I think the average IQ person

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Speaker 5: can understand what a plea deal is.

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Speaker 9: It's not something super complicated.

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Speaker 1: So hold on, I got to get the steak on solvice.

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Speaker 1: But I just have to asked Nima Romani. Guys, when

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Speaker 1: this first broke, I immediately got on the horn with Ramani.

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Speaker 1: Why he knows what he's talking about? And we hashed

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Speaker 1: it through Nima Romani, former federal prosecutor turned trial lawyer,

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Speaker 1: president of the former president of the West Coast Trial Lawyers,

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Speaker 1: author of Harvard to hashtag. You can find him at

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Speaker 1: West Coast Trial Lawyers dot com.

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Speaker 2: Nima, this is doable.

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Speaker 1: After you and I talked, I researched the law again

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Speaker 1: and it confirmed what you and I had talked about.

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Speaker 1: Let me get my notes Garza the Idaho straight out

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Speaker 1: of Idaho, and that is the Supremes. You remember at

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Speaker 1: the time, they kept saying he's giving up his right

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Speaker 1: to appeal. This plea deal means it's over forever. I'm

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Speaker 1: like No, it's not. I don't care what he says.

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Speaker 1: He can always appeal under the sixth. There's always an

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Speaker 1: argument to be made that he was tricked, he was hoodwink,

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Speaker 1: he didn't know what was happening in effective assistance of council. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but no, that's what they told the victims in court.

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Speaker 2: That was BS.

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Speaker 1: Then we called it and I'm calling it again. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he can do this. He can appeal his guilty plea.

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Speaker 1: Then he'll be Lockhart. Also the supremes about how you

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Speaker 1: can't reverse a guilty plea. But practically speaking, Nama, what

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Speaker 1: the hay is going on?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, he's got to basically pigeonhole this petition into one

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Speaker 8: of really four legal arguments. He's got to argue that

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Speaker 8: the plea wasn't knowing and voluntary. I think it's going

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Speaker 8: to be tough because obviously we all heard the plea

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Speaker 8: callique right.

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Speaker 1: Let me sima, Nama, he's getting his pH d in criminology.

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Speaker 8: I think that's going to be the toughest one.

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Speaker 2: It was knowing next, that's how I wrote it down.

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Speaker 2: I'm marking it out.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so let's put that away this second, as if

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Speaker 8: he's actually innocent Obviously that's not going to fly either.

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Speaker 8: There's no way the state is going to But that's

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Speaker 8: what happened with them.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just choked. That didn't go down very well. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we can count out actual innocence too. Okay, that's give

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Speaker 1: me your third choice.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, the third is prosecutorial misconduct, right, And of course

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Speaker 8: the state is never going to concede that that they

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Speaker 8: withheld Brady information or something that was impeachment. They didn't

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Speaker 8: comply with their obligations. There's no way the state's going

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Speaker 8: to concede that. So then you're really left with the

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Speaker 8: last one, which is the ineffective assistance of counsel. Right,

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Speaker 8: that's something and Taylor said or.

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Speaker 2: Did that was nama, nama. That's it.

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Speaker 1: That's where they're going because from what I can gather

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Speaker 1: from this raggedy petition, he's claiming Brady or Brady Maryland

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Speaker 1: exculpatory material evidence that would tend to prove him innocent

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Speaker 1: or prove him in It could be something as simple

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Speaker 1: as a line of cross examination of state's witness, and

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Speaker 1: if the defense didn't know about it, then that could

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Speaker 1: have made a difference in whether the jury believe the witness.

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Speaker 1: There's all sorts of permutations about what is exculpatory. He

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Speaker 1: seems to be claiming that the defense withheld Brady material

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Speaker 1: from their own client, that he didn't understand all of

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Speaker 1: the exculpatory evidence. He's going with ineffective and the sod

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Speaker 1: some of the dude did it.

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Speaker 2: That's where he's going.

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Speaker 8: So then the question is what are his lawyers in

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Speaker 8: the state going to say. I can't see any world

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Speaker 8: where the prosecution is going to admit to withholding Brady evidence.

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Speaker 8: So the question is did his lawyers not provide it

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Speaker 8: to him? Are they going to confess error? If they

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Speaker 8: do and they fall on the sword, then potentially we

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Speaker 8: would have to start this over. The question is, though,

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Speaker 8: I don't think his lawyers are going to do that.

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Speaker 8: This was an amazing deal they see.

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Speaker 1: Him, No, if they think there is a way to

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Speaker 1: get him a new trial. I've seen the best lawyers

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Speaker 1: in town go in court and go, okay, I was

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Speaker 1: ineffective to help their client.

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Speaker 2: Were they ineffective?

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Speaker 1: No, they were not, but they'll say it in a

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Speaker 1: further bid to help their client. And you know what

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Speaker 1: I want to happen. I want him to get his

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Speaker 1: wish straight up to Steve Gonsalvice. This is Keilly Gonsolvis's father,

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Speaker 1: co founder of murder.

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Speaker 2: Has a name.

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Speaker 1: Please look it up, Steve. I want the state. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you got to have an independent prosecutor. You can't have

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Speaker 1: that bag of bones up there trying to try this case.

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Speaker 1: That's out, that's over. But I want them to give

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Speaker 1: him his wish.

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Speaker 2: You want any trial.

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Speaker 1: Fine, we have regretted the pola ever since we did it,

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Speaker 1: and here's our chance.

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Speaker 2: Why can't we do that? Steve?

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Speaker 10: I don't know.

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Speaker 11: I think what do we get? Like ninety percent of

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Speaker 11: capital cases go out on a plea, and we never

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Speaker 11: made case law. I would love for this to be

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Speaker 11: case law in Idaho. And you know, we got the

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Speaker 11: fire and squad. Let's let it be very confident. I mean,

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Speaker 11: he's an idiot. I mean the amount of you got

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Speaker 11: to see the way that they had his vehicle mapped

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Speaker 11: out with all those cameras, it was going to be powerful.

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Speaker 11: They were literally going to be able to prove that

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Speaker 11: the phone and that car were traveling together and tie

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Speaker 11: it all.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, stand by it. Let let's let's put oles

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Speaker 6: in him. You know, let's let's shoot him. He's done.

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Speaker 1: Please please please take him to trial, give him his wish.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Nate Eaton. He's the news director at

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Speaker 1: East Idaho News, Emmy nominated journalist host of Courtroom Insider

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. He has been on this case from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, is this guy actually claiming fabricated horror that

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Speaker 1: they showed him a photo of inside a death row

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Speaker 1: sale and said you better plead? The guy is a

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Speaker 1: getting his PhD in criminology. Nobody made him do anything,

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Speaker 1: did they.

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Speaker 12: No.

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Speaker 13: But what's interesting to me, Nancy, is you talk about

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Speaker 13: how he says prison isn't what he expected. In his statement,

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Speaker 13: he said the public is demanding the truth. I'm curious

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Speaker 13: to know which public out there he's talking about. But

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Speaker 13: there's unanswered questions with each new piece of evidence unsealed.

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Speaker 13: Steve mentioned the car, the surveillance footage of his white

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Speaker 13: Lantra that was caught on camera at the home within

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Speaker 13: minutes of you know when, before the students were killed

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Speaker 13: and after? What about the k bar knife sheet? Remember

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Speaker 13: that was left behind and DNA trapped to Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 13: Not only that he purchased it on Amazon a nine sheet.

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Speaker 13: So the evidence that we have seen has led directly

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Speaker 13: to Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what.

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Speaker 13: Other evidence he's talking about. He didn't detail it in

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Speaker 13: his stay.

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Speaker 1: And to look at the stat last night Nate Eaton,

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Speaker 1: it was five point three seven five point three seven

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Speaker 1: octilion to one likelihood that it was anybody else's DNA

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Speaker 1: on the murder weapon knife sheath. Now it's my understanding.

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Speaker 1: Hold on Joe Scott here, I come. It's my understanding.

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Speaker 1: Coburger is stating that there was a quote, clump of

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Speaker 1: hair in one of the victim's hands and that it

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Speaker 1: suggested another defendant. What I've read elsewhere, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to confirm this with Christy and Steve Gonsolvis. There was

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Speaker 1: one hair that was found that belonged to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where that one hair was, but we

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Speaker 1: all know it was the party house. You got four

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Speaker 1: co eds living together. I would be shocked if there

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Speaker 1: weren't parties at their house. There'd be something wrong if

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Speaker 1: their work parties at their house. So there's another hair,

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Speaker 1: but his DNA is on the knife sheath. His sone

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Speaker 1: was quieted. He ordered the k bar knife. He was

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Speaker 1: out star gazing in that area at the time of

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Speaker 1: the murders. He was the one stalking them over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again. The evidence is overwhelming. So what

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Speaker 1: is the truth about the hair? He's claiming a clump

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Speaker 1: of hair that belonged to somebody else in the victim's hand.

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Speaker 1: But I'm reading the defense forensic scientist said there was

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Speaker 1: one hair that may have belonged to somebody else.

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Speaker 5: So I have I have talked to the lead uh

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Speaker 5: uh investigator about this specifically and from ISP and he

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Speaker 5: and I asked when that when it came out in

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Speaker 5: the book, and he said, absolutely not. That's the most

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Speaker 5: ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

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Speaker 9: He said.

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Speaker 5: Ethan's hand had fallen behind the bed, and you know,

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Speaker 5: obviously blood ran down his arm. It's sticky. The floor,

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Speaker 5: you can't imagine, was not that clean. I mean, you

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Speaker 5: could behind an event. It's probably not that clean, you know,

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Speaker 5: and debris, dust, bunnies, dirt, all kinds of sorts of stuff,

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Speaker 5: you know, stuck to his hand.

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Speaker 9: He was, you know, it's stuck to his hand. They

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Speaker 9: packaged him up. I don't you know. They took him

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Speaker 9: out of the house and.

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Speaker 2: Transported him to the medical examiner.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and and when they you know, we're looking for

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Speaker 5: evidence and whatnot. This is what he had in his

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Speaker 5: hand or stuck to his hand. It was, by no

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Speaker 5: means a clump of hair that the book claims saying

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Speaker 5: that it was pulled out from the root.

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Speaker 9: Of somebody's hair.

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Speaker 11: This is basically gossip, a desperate attempt to find something

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Speaker 11: when you have no evidence in the facts, anything that

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Speaker 11: you've tried to lay out. I mean, he has no alibi,

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Speaker 11: he has nothing. So yeah, he's gonna.

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Speaker 6: Look for one photo with one piece of hair and

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Speaker 6: try to say what about that?

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Speaker 9: You know, Well, the guy wrote a book about it

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Speaker 9: and made a big deal about it.

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Speaker 5: Everybody freaked out about it and was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 5: the clump of hair in Ethan's hand. And I immediately

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Speaker 5: called and he was just like what And I said, well,

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Speaker 5: this is what this book says. He goes ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Okay, you know what.

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Speaker 1: I just hope they bring that guy on the stand

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Speaker 1: and quote his book on cross examination, say what clump?

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Speaker 1: Why did you say that? Okay, let me just ask

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Speaker 1: y'all straight out. You said you wanted this to go

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Speaker 1: to trial, as do I do. You still feel the

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Speaker 1: same way CHRISTI and Steve.

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Speaker 12: I do.

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Speaker 9: I mean I would.

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Speaker 5: I would love because I think that it would just

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Speaker 5: stop so much of these people just running their mouths

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Speaker 5: and this conspiracy theory at this point with as much

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Speaker 5: time gone by. I mean, I would have to, you know,

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Speaker 5: put myself in that state of mind again, which is

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Speaker 5: not an easy state of mind to put yourself in that.

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Speaker 9: You're moving, I mean, because we would have to physically

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Speaker 9: move for three months.

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Speaker 5: I mean we have animals, you know, we just can't

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Speaker 5: travel back and forth, so you know, we we would

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Speaker 5: have to make those family adjustments. But yeah, I mean

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Speaker 5: we're if that's what it comes down to, We're all

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Speaker 5: for it.

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Speaker 6: Certain cases.

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Speaker 1: Need Well, what about the possibility Steve Gon solves of

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Speaker 1: the death penalty?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's the firing squad that thing.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, honor of the victims before people died from a

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Speaker 11: low life that wasn't even a member of our community. Okay,

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Speaker 11: a complete stranger came into our commune and kill people

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Speaker 11: while they go to sleep.

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Speaker 6: If that doesn't, you know.

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Speaker 11: Invoke some kind of like prosecutor passion to actually have

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Speaker 11: pulled the law, then he probably doesn't have one. So Yeah,

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Speaker 11: I'm all for it. You know, if that's what they

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Speaker 11: that's what they decide to do, we'll be there. We'll

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Speaker 11: support the case and all the people did all the

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Speaker 11: hard work.

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Speaker 14: Yep.

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Speaker 2: But what do you want, Steve.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing for me to say, yes,

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Speaker 1: I want a trial because I want to hear the truth.

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Speaker 1: I want the world to know the truth. And we

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Speaker 1: didn't know the truth with that pathetic showing in court

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Speaker 1: at the time of the plea. Your daughter was the

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Speaker 1: only one with the to stand up and speak the truth. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'd like a prosecutor that has a similar set

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Speaker 1: of right can we.

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Speaker 2: Find one of those?

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Speaker 1: I'd like to see how this plays out with a

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Speaker 1: real process and here the facts. For instance, tell me

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Speaker 1: what you were saying, Steve, about what was caught on

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Speaker 1: video that maybe the rest of the world doesn't know

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Speaker 1: about regarding his car and the phone and the car

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Speaker 1: traveling together.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, people can actually do this if they understand how

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Speaker 11: AI is. Just go in and tell it, take every

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Speaker 11: time that this car's on camera, and then cross coordinalate

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Speaker 11: it with the path that is known, and it'll do

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Speaker 11: a pretty good job of showing you what they went on.

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Speaker 11: But when you go back and you can figure the

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Speaker 11: times and the stamps and what he's on there, they

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Speaker 11: pinned that all the way down.

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Speaker 5: Once he turned his phone back on, they knew exactly

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Speaker 5: where it was, and they said his device was traveling

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Speaker 5: on this road, you know, through this camera.

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Speaker 9: That was definitely him, you know.

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Speaker 6: So whether it's all the way back to stadium, it.

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Speaker 9: Was somebody else.

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Speaker 5: It was somebody else that had his device and his

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Speaker 5: car traveling.

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Speaker 1: So and when was that Chris State? When was his

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Speaker 1: phone identified traveling along with the car?

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Speaker 11: When at four his car turns on, he turns on

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Speaker 11: an app, a map application. At that point they get

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Speaker 11: further details and exactly where he was. So you cross

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Speaker 11: correlate that with the last time he's on there at

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Speaker 11: four twenty one or four to twenty, depending on what

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Speaker 11: you're going off. You can say, okay, what path I

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Speaker 11: think it was twenty seven minutes? Where would that get

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Speaker 11: him to? And then you define that four forty eight

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Speaker 11: where he turns it on, and they manage it almost

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Speaker 11: a matchup time.

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Speaker 1: Frame, and then the path it is him with his

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Speaker 1: GPS and his phone the night of the murders, going

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Speaker 1: to the murder scene.

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Speaker 2: We know it was him, So all.

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Speaker 1: This bs about you didn't get a tag number. We

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Speaker 1: got better than a visual on a tag number. We

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Speaker 1: have his GPS. Explain it one more time and put

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Speaker 1: it in slow mo. I want to make sure I

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Speaker 1: understand it, Steve.

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Speaker 11: Okay, So he's seen on a hammer called one one two,

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Speaker 11: turning right, and it's a timestamped at four to twenty

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Speaker 11: maybe four to twenty one leaving the scene. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 11: taking the right leaving the scene. He turns his phone

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Speaker 11: on at four forty eight. So then they go look

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Speaker 11: at that as a source of truth and say, okay,

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Speaker 11: where we seen him here last? And then we see

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Speaker 11: him down here that's where he's registered on the cell tellers.

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Speaker 11: They do the map and the drift the time twenty

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Speaker 11: seven minutes. It actually gets him exactly where he's turning

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Speaker 11: his phone on.

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Speaker 1: Nima Romani, former federal prosecutor, extraordinary attorney. How can I

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Speaker 1: get this thing to trial? Can the state Joanne with

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Speaker 1: Kyerberger and go, you want to need a trial? Fine,

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Speaker 1: you got it. Put it on the calendar. Can that happen?

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Speaker 1: Or can the judge stop it?

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Speaker 8: The judge can stop it, But I think The easiest path,

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Speaker 8: and you nailed it is for the defense to submit

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00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 8: a declaration and saying that they were ineffective. Look, it's

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00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 8: the Strickland test, right, there's a manifest in justice. We

382
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Speaker 8: didn't tell our client this information. We misled our client.

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Speaker 8: If they put that in writing, it's a done deal.

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Speaker 8: But they got to fall on the sword, and you're right,

385
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 8: maybe they want to do that for their client. There's

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Speaker 8: really nothing the judge or the state can do to

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Speaker 8: stop it because we don't know what communications they had

388
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Speaker 8: with Coburger. And if they confess that type of error,

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Speaker 8: then it's game over and the judge has to grant

390
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Speaker 8: the motion and then I'll go to one another ten

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Speaker 8: or twelve other death penalty qualified lawyers in the state

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Speaker 8: of Idaho. It can't be them defending the case going forward.

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Speaker 8: That is the cleanest, the easiest path. The other way,

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Speaker 8: like you said, is if the state admits some sort

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Speaker 8: of error. I don't think they're going to do that.

396
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 8: I think that would also.

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Speaker 2: Not really claimbing that he's claiming.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, naming you mean this won't work legally.

399
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: Quote my actual innocence is my truth, and the plea

400
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: used on false promises.

401
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: End quote.

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00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: All caps must be withdrawn. So he was misled about

403
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: job opportunities behind bars. Okay, I haven't seen that in

404
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: an appellate record yet, Jill ain't what is cracked up

405
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: to be? Give me a new trial. I want out. Okay,

406
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: that's where this is going. Listen to this.

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Speaker 15: There was tons of DNA. By the way, I don't

408
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 15: know why it has been reported it was trace DNA.

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Speaker 1: It was not.

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Speaker 15: There was tons of DNA. There was certainty in the

411
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Speaker 15: quality of the DNA, there was certainty in the analysis,

412
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Speaker 15: and there was certainty that there was more than enough

413
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Speaker 15: information in that tree to get to a person.

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Speaker 1: Those are two of the four most DNA experts in

415
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 1: the world, the Middlemans. And that's where our friends at

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00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: Fox News at crime con Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott,

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00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: before you get started, I want to give you, I

418
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: know you don't need one, but a little reality check

419
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Speaker 1: about what this case is about.

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Speaker 5: So I'm going through some of Kaylee's things and.

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Speaker 14: I just came across the sweatshirt that she was wearing

422
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Speaker 14: that night, and.

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Speaker 9: In the pocket.

424
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Speaker 10: Is your grub truck.

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Speaker 7: Number seventy eight.

426
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Speaker 4: Ticket.

427
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 7: I've been looking for it. It's the first thing that

428
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 7: I really found that I've been looking for.

429
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Speaker 6: It was in the top of a box.

430
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Speaker 7: And then when I looked in the pocket and I

431
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 7: found that ticket. Just takes you back to those hours,

432
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 7: those hours right before I had no idea what was

433
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Speaker 7: going to happen to them?

434
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Speaker 3: Terrible.

435
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: That's Christy from the Gonsolvas Family Facebook. Joe Scott, what

436
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: are we.

437
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Speaker 10: Going to do? Man?

438
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Speaker 16: God bless you all. I can't even plumb the depths

439
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 16: of this. Uh, getting back to the to the evidence

440
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 16: at hand, I got to tell you something and going

441
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 16: back to what Steve and Christy had said earlier, and uh,

442
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 16: let the hide come with hairs? Would I say, if

443
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Speaker 16: he wants a fight, bring it on. Because going back

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Speaker 16: to what that clip that you showed of our friends

445
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 16: David and Kristen at author I felt all along that

446
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 16: there was going to be a just a plethora of

447
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 16: DNA evidence. And here's why I'm going to throw a

448
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 16: number out to you that we don't use this number

449
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 16: a lot when we're talking about these four precious lives. Okay,

450
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 16: we talked about the individual injuries, you know, per person,

451
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 16: But Nancy, I want to give you this number, one

452
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 16: hundred and fifty. One hundred and fifty injuries we're talking

453
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 16: about in total. Now, that's kind of an approximation because

454
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 16: the violence involved in this case, you have what we're

455
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 16: referred to or what I would refer to as communicating injuries.

456
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 16: So you have such a concentration of injuries that you'll

457
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 16: get this kind of cross pattern where you can't delineate it.

458
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 16: And of course you know this, this certainly happened with Kayley.

459
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 16: There's just certain things that you can't interpret specifically because

460
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 16: of the level of violence. But one hundred and fifty, Nancy,

461
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 16: just let that sink in. How are you going to

462
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 16: engage and this kind of violence and not have transfer

463
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 16: of DNA and you taking on DNA from an individual?

464
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 16: I can only imagine where else they're sourcing this from

465
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 16: points of contact? We go back and you know, my

466
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 16: old adage is always the card every contact leaves a trace,

467
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 16: and that principle holds true here. It's solid as the

468
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 16: day is long. And so when you think about the

469
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 16: violence that was exacted here, yeah, I think that there

470
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 16: is a solid underpinning of evidence here. And again, if

471
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 16: he you know, if he feels froggy, Let's jump, baby,

472
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 16: let's roll, because I want to see this evidence, and

473
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 16: going back from a prosecutorial standpoint, I want to see

474
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 16: somebody that's actually got the guts to go forward, stand

475
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 16: up and accuse him and direct him to offer up

476
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 16: an explanation for what happened. Of course we didn't see

477
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 16: that because there was no damn allocution and that was

478
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 16: not required of him. He gets to live on Easy

479
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 16: Street and undutney.

480
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: Nima Ramani, Is there any way this can happen?

481
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: How dare he? After all he has put everybody through.

482
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 2: It's all about.

483
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: Me, me me, me, me, me, me, me me me.

484
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 1: I don't like jail. This wasn't what it's cracked up

485
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: to be. I was lied to, I was mistreated. Every

486
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: Senate starts with I is there a way.

487
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: To give him what he wants?

488
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: Because I'd like to put it three inches right up

489
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: his tailpipe. Listen.

490
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 8: I would love a trial too, just like everyone else.

491
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 8: I think there's no world where he's actually innocent. He

492
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 8: will be convicted, he will be sentenced to death, but

493
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 8: I don't think it's going to happen, Nancy. This is

494
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 8: a final judgment. The law wants to keep these judgments final.

495
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 8: We can have every criminal defendant come when both.

496
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: Parties don't want it to be final both it's funny.

497
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: You have to show they can demand.

498
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: I can't just enter you a US Supreme Court that

499
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: can undo a guilty play. All this business about a

500
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: plea is unappealable. That's crap, that's not true. I can't

501
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: believe they even said that to start with.

502
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: Do they not have a law book?

503
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 8: Well, listen, there has to be a constitutional violation. So

504
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 8: if the parties agree that there's a constitutional violation, of course,

505
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 8: but they can't just enter into a stipulation. It's not

506
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 8: like just putting a piece of evidence in or saying, hey,

507
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 8: we want to do over. There has to be a

508
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 8: legal basis to unwind this. Absent a constitutional violation, we're

509
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 8: not going to be able to get there. It's not

510
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 8: enough for the prosecution of the defense to say, you

511
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 8: know what, we've changed our mind, we want to do over.

512
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 8: This was a bad deal because the millions are thinking the.

513
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: Best bet is ineffective. Ineffective assistance. Now because I actual innocence, it's.

514
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 10: Not going to work.

515
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: Not knowing and.

516
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: Voluntary that's not going to work. We're that didn't happen.

517
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: So all we're left with is ineffective.

518
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 8: That's all we're left with. So unless say tell it.

519
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: He's crazy like a fox, because that's what he's claiming

520
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: in this petition, that his lawyers did not give him

521
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: the whole truth, that they withheld exculpatory evidence from him

522
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: to get him to plead guilty. He's saying it was

523
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: all a fabrication. Is that what he's saying, Nate Eaton,

524
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: is all a big fabrication.

525
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 13: It was a lie, that's what he's saying, Nancy. One

526
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 13: interesting thing is the Attorney General for the state of

527
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 13: Idaho came out and said, my office stands ready to

528
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 13: do whatever is necessary to ensure justice is fully carried out.

529
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 13: He didn't say there's no chance that this will advance

530
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 13: that if the judge denies it. It sounds like the

531
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 13: attorney general is ready and willing to help. So let's

532
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 13: say a prosecutor from the Attorney General's office steps in

533
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 13: and says, okay, we'll prosecute the case from this state level.

534
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 13: And then Coburger, who's going to represent him if this proceeds, is,

535
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 13: you know, represent himself. He is writing his own legal briefs.

536
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: No, there are plenty of lawyers that would do it

537
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: just for the pr You know, I appreciate what the

538
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: State ag said, Labrador, but where the hay was the

539
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: age when this plea was going down? Okay, when everybody

540
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: across the country was screaming, including the Gonsalvest family, where

541
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: were they? Then?

542
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 2: You know what, if they're going to come late to

543
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: the party, great, come on.

544
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: But no, that's but another thing this does is it

545
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: opens up a possibility the Feds might step in, because

546
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: if that plea is undone, the Feds could jump in.

547
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: Steve Gonsolves, they could.

548
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, we've always had speaks and talks about the Feds

549
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 11: doing that, and you know that now that they're pro

550
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 11: death penalty. Before they were kind of wishy washy, and

551
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 11: they gave a bunch of petitions so people didn't have

552
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 11: to be on the death penditty they got them off.

553
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 11: So yeah, I would love to see a real prosecuting

554
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 11: service that we could get.

555
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've all often wondered why it wasn't federal, but

556
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 5: when this happened, it was under Biden administration, and the

557
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 5: FBI told us then they could prosecute. But they could

558
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 5: not prosecute for death penalty, so we were like, just

559
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 5: leave it with Bill Thompson, then leave it with Lethal County.

560
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 9: So obviously things have changed and he's not.

561
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 5: Ei're no longer under the Biden administration, and the FBI

562
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 5: can pursue the death penalty, so that would be great.

563
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: Best of the best joining us now.

564
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, renown psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction.

565
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breakers. You can see

566
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: on her on Hulu, on Peacock, on Netflix brand new

567
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: hit podcast On the Couch with Doctor Bethany Marshall. You

568
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: can find her at doctor Bethan Marshall dot com. Okay

569
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: hit at Bethany thoughts.

570
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 12: Well, mister and missus Gonsalves, I loved your most recent

571
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 12: Facebook post about the fact that Brian Coberger is a mosquito.

572
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 12: You can't seem to squash, but you know, sadly it's worse.

573
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 12: My clinical experience leads me to believe that you are

574
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 12: only the person the only people he can victimize right now.

575
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 12: In other words, he's a killing machine. He likely had

576
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 12: other victims on the radar, likely the family of the

577
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 12: existing four were on the radar, meaning you were in

578
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 12: on his radar. And you know he has too much time,

579
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 12: free access to a law library, raary. He's in solitary confinement.

580
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 12: So how does he act out his murderous impulses without

581
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 12: a victim right in front of him, without access to

582
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 12: future victims?

583
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: What does he do?

584
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 12: He lashes out at you. That's worse than a mosquito.

585
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 12: That's somebody who, if he was not behind bars, would

586
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 12: maybe have you in his sights.

587
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I want your analysis. He's basically saying, my

588
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: defense team they all lie to me. They fabricated this

589
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: whole thing, and they misled me about life behind bars. Translation,

590
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: guess what jail like? What's cracked up to be?

591
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 12: Dr Bethany, Well, our most strongest impulse is the survival instinct, right,

592
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 12: So he wants to survive, he wants to be out.

593
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 12: He's delusional, he thinks he might get out. He's a

594
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 12: criminal law you know, student PhD student, and so he

595
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 12: thinks he's above the law and he can twist the law.

596
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 12: But I think primarily it's all self referential, and you know, Nancy, Interestingly,

597
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 12: he is throwing his defense team under the bus, which

598
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 12: shows me how dispensable everybody is to him. His mother

599
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 12: and father now have to come into court. They have

600
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 12: cried in previous appearances and when he's you know, been

601
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 12: in court and in various cases appearances, and now he's

602
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 12: subjecting his family to torture as well as the consolves

603
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 12: family and all the other families. So they're dispensable to

604
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 12: his own family. Would they have been on the radar

605
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 12: as well? It's hard to know.

606
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 10: She's not working up.

607
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: Okay, one moment, I'm going to help her.

608
00:34:48,680 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 4: That way, we'll give you yeah, yeah, okay. And how

609
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 4: old is she?

610
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 10: Tom?

611
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 4: She's twenty twenty?

612
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 3: You said, yes, twenty, here's okay?

613
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: Hello, hello, okay, I need someone to stops passing the

614
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: phone around because I've talked to four different people.

615
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 10: Sorry, they just gave me the phone.

616
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 12: Is she breathing?

617
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 4: Hello?

618
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 10: Is she breathing?

619
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 12: No?

620
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 16: Okay, let me secure the outside first.

621
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 6: Remember there's a backgand for you.

622
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 11: I was gonna start taking it all off.

623
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 10: Okay, there, all right, already does that? I got in there,

624
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 10: shutting down.

625
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 3: There, and then ultimately her walking up, I heard her

626
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: scream and she ran downstairs because she saw someone. That's

627
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure. She said she someone's here and

628
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: she's screamed and just ran downstairs and I called for

629
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 3: a name. They jumped up and locked my doors. I

630
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: was so scared, and then I heard someone in the

631
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 3: bathroom when I heard her crying, and I heard some guys,

632
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 3: you're gonna be okay to help you.

633
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 6: And I kept calling your.

634
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: Name, but she wasn't answering.

635
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: And then I opened the door for a second and

636
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: I saw this.

637
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: Guy from our friends at Law and Crime, Christy. While

638
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: we are bandying back and for the possibilities of a trial,

639
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: that is what happened. We may have a chance at justice.

640
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 6: Christy, absolutely, and that's why we asked for concessions. We

641
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 6: knew that this was going to happen.

642
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 11: We actually foretell the whole thing, and people looked at

643
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 11: us like we're crazy, and we're like, well, we're talking

644
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 11: about a psychopath who literally has a search history on

645
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 11: his phone saying psychopath paranoia. I think people are after

646
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 11: me all that stuff phoned being tapped. He's a psychopath,

647
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 11: so of course he's going to try to do everything

648
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 11: in his possible power to try to drag us through

649
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 11: the mud and put us through all this and.

650
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 6: I just needed a prosecutor who just do concessions. Just

651
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 6: a couple. Man.

652
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 11: All he needed to do was get just a couple,

653
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 11: and we just all would have went away.

654
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 5: I mean, we did want the trial, but when we

655
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 5: found out it was a play, we begged. We have emails,

656
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 5: we have phone calls, we had meetings. We were begging

657
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 5: for some sort of concessions.

658
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 9: Can we at least ask.

659
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 5: This, Can we at least have them, you know, admit

660
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 5: to this or ask them where this is?

661
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 9: And they were just like no.

662
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 11: We went so far to tell our audience on our

663
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 11: Facebook to call Hippler viewer from Idaho, be respectful and

664
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 11: call and say, hey, decline this plea deal. That's the

665
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 11: only option we have according to our legal council. That's

666
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 11: all we could do.

667
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 9: The judge could could have said so.

668
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 11: That he got so upset about it. He said, I'm

669
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 11: going to turn each one of these people to the police.

670
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 9: He yelled at us in court at the plea deal.

671
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 5: He yelled at us, and I was like, you're an

672
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 5: elected official and said that we these are voting matters.

673
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 5: We interrupted the day of court and people weren't able

674
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 5: to get their jobs done. The receptionists weren't able to

675
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 5: answer their phone, their emails were full, their voicemailers were full,

676
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: and it wasn't like I was privy to his email

677
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 5: address or.

678
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 6: The phone number.

679
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 5: And then I gave out. We were just like, contact

680
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 5: the judge, contact the court.

681
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 6: Well, he's going to elect the official. So it is

682
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 6: what it is, and yeah.

683
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 9: We got it in the beginning.

684
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 5: If you listen to the plea deal and he's chewing

685
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 5: somebody out, it's us.

686
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is what it is. I'm saying,

687
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: take the case to trial for once, prosecutor, do the

688
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: right thing for the Coburger victims family. Tell me something,

689
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author star

690
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: a Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, Joe Scott,

691
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: just tell me we can get a conviction, right if

692
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: we take this thing to trial.

693
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 16: Right, Yeah, let's think. Let's think about the forensic evidence

694
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 16: from the perspective of engineering. You have a framework that's

695
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 16: laid out here, Okay, And I'm not saying that it

696
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 16: is absolutely perfect. There is nothing in our world that

697
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 16: is perfect. However, if you look from an evidentiary standpoint,

698
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 16: from a physical evidence standpoint, from a digital standpoint. It's

699
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 16: all there. It's there that you just have to have

700
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 16: somebody that has the intestinal fortitude, dude, to hang everything

701
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 16: on this structure, to build it out, to push it forward.

702
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 16: That's why I said earlier, if he wants to do this,

703
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 16: do it. Absolutely do it. But again it's you know,

704
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 16: we can only do so much at a crime scene

705
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 16: and a lab at the me's office. All we can

706
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 16: do is just to offer up our findings. And it

707
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 16: still it baffled me, baffles me to this day, after

708
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 16: all of these years, that they did not have the

709
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 16: ability within themselves to call upon themselves to say, hey,

710
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 16: we got a slam dunk here, we're going to move

711
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 16: this forward. For some reason they decided to go down

712
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 16: this road. But it still exists, Nancy, All of this

713
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 16: hard work still exists. All they have to do is

714
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 16: take those first steps.

715
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: And maybe even more Joe Scott, because you know how

716
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: evidence and witnesses seem to come out of the woodwork

717
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: once it's all said and done, or so they think,

718
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: okayor Bethany Marshall, he says this as justice getting a trial,

719
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: He's not happy with life behind bars? Is it there's

720
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: some kind of clinical name for this.

721
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 12: Guy, selfish, self absorbed, fist criteria for a psychopath. Not

722
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 12: only in that he is creating some sense of excitement

723
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 12: by going to the law library and then writing up

724
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 12: these scribbled, handwritten and also you know, text briefs, but

725
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 12: the fact that he continues to have access to victims

726
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 12: through these filings. That's what I think, is what I

727
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 12: really want to put front and center, is this person

728
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 12: is homicidal. This person compulsively wants to kill. He wants

729
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 12: to draw blood. If he is denied access to that,

730
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 12: what is he going to do? He's going to kill

731
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 12: and draw blood in other ways, It's just like an

732
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 12: alcoholic who is told they can never drink again, so

733
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 12: they start ordering mocktails or they romanticize the drink. He's

734
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 12: romanticizing the process because it is exciting. Psychopaths they suffer

735
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 12: from under arousal and internal emptiness. They cannot find joy

736
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 12: in the small things in life. They only find joys

737
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 12: in a highly stimulating situation, which is usually killing. If

738
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 12: he can't be stimulated in that way, he's stimulating himself

739
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 12: through self pity and preoccupation with the victims' families.

740
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: Nate et Knees, Director East Idaho News Nate, what happens now?

741
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: Has the judge even bothered to put a hearing on

742
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: the calendar.

743
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 13: As of today, there's no hearing on the calendar, but

744
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 13: I would imagine the judge will have to hold a

745
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 13: hearing on this will appear in court, likely with his

746
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 13: counsel that he's had all along. If they decide to

747
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 13: say they're ineffective counsel, as we've discussed on this program today,

748
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 13: then he could be appointed new attorneys. The judge could

749
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,479
Speaker 13: take it under invisement issue of ruling say no, there's

750
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 13: no grounds here. But I imagine Coburger will take this

751
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 13: all the way to the Supreme Court. I could see

752
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 13: him continually filing these things. If a new trial date

753
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 13: is state is set, Nancy, I think it's going to

754
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 13: be at least a year out, maybe two years out.

755
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 13: It's a death penalty case. You have to line things out.

756
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 13: So this is something that unfortunately is going to take months,

757
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 13: perhaps years.

758
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, I can do that final word.

759
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 9: Christy and Steve, Well, we're just going to have to

760
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 9: see what happened.

761
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,959
Speaker 5: We're just going to have to see what the judge does,

762
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 5: be there at the court appearances like we were before,

763
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 5: and follow it through. I mean, all we were able

764
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 5: to do before or was just roll with the punches,

765
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 5: and that's all we're going to be able to do now.

766
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's it's all in the judge's hands

767
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 5: and and obviously the Council at this point, if they're

768
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 5: going to say yes, we were ineffective, or the prosecution

769
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 5: state say yes we like about exculpatory evidence, it's completely

770
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 5: out of our hands and all we could do is

771
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 5: show up and we will continue to do that.

772
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 11: I hope his day of manipulating all these core processes

773
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 11: come to an end. We were unseiling things, things were

774
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 11: slowly coming out. I hope that doesn't come to an end.

775
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 11: We all deserve the truth. And when you have a

776
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 11: prisoner who sits there is able to manipulate things and

777
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 11: they start rewarding him by not unseiling, then you know

778
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 11: they're making they're making a standard for others to follow.

779
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 6: So let's hope.

780
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 5: And and and I do want to say that I'm

781
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 5: sorry to the State of Idaho, to the community that

782
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 5: you know as taxpayers that this.

783
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 9: Is uh this, this has.

784
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 5: Been so expensive and just continues to run. And I

785
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 5: see a lot of people say, you know what, we

786
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 5: don't want to put, you know, end it because of

787
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 5: the costs.

788
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 9: I understand that. But on the other hand, you know, this.

789
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 5: Is our child, and if it was your child, you know,

790
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 5: you might feel a little differently. But we do understand that.

791
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 5: We you know, we don't want to dismiss that. But

792
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,959
Speaker 5: how much is your child worth?

793
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 9: Yea, you know there's there's no dollar amount that you

794
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 9: can put on that.

795
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: Everyone whinds about our tax dollars being misspent. Finally, our

796
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: tax dollars would be spent for a good cause. Nothing

797
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: to complain about. There we wait as justice unfolds, God willing. Finally,

798
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 1: in this case, we remember an American hero, Sergeant Edmund Murray,

799
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: New York PD, passed away in the line of duty,

800
00:45:54,280 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: leaving behind parents, Marine and Bartholomew. American hero Sergeant Edmund Murray.

801
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you being

802
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off, but I'll see

803
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, Friendly