WEBVTT - The Secret Space Plane 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:08.600 Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from world. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.040 Hey there, and welcome to text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.360 and this week I am joined by my coworker extraordinaire 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:23.360 once again, Ben Boland. I've been Heathan. How's it going great? 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.440 Especially since you know, once again, I gave Ben the option. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.639 I said, you could choose anything that's on this list, 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.000 and he picked something that wasn't. Yeah, but it's an 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:37.600 awesome topic. It's one that really fits both my show 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.640 and then your stuff they don't want you to know show, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:46.320 and that's the X seven B and Jonathan, before we go, 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.320 and let me say, in my defense, I guess I 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:50.760 do owe you an apology. It may as well be public. 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.440 I thought it was anything that wasn't on that list. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.000 That's fair. I totally switched that up. But you thought 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.120 you thought that list of like forty things represented all 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.080 seven episodes of Textuff. There were stuff you already have 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.800 in the mix. You've got a million projects. That's fair, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.560 but no, you could have picked any of those actually 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.319 to be To be honest, I really do give any 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.520 potential guest host the full option of picking whatever topic 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.800 they want, and then you know, we go from there. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.000 If it's something that we've already covered on tech stuff, 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:22.520 then I said, well, we need to make sure that 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.920 whatever it is we talk about is a different take 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.720 that kind of thing. But a lot of people like 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.000 to have the guidance of the list of potential topics. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.039 When you come back with something that that isn't on 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.440 the list and I haven't covered, that's awesome. So in 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:43.520 this case, we're talking about a space plane, secret space plane, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.440 and uh, it's been reported on in the news several times. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.640 There's a at an upcoming launch that should be happening 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.440 in May of um is. As we record this, it's 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:01.960 early April, so obviously that still ways out and depending 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.120 on weather and stuff, it could end up being pushed back. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.160 But we wanted to talk about what this plane is 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.799 and we'd love to talk about what it's doing. But 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.079 as you'll find out, that's a little complicated. There are 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:19.720 some guesses, and as we continue through today's episode, we 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.360 will arrive at some of that. But to be absolutely 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.240 honest from the jump, the people who do know what 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.239 it's doing are totally not allowed to talk about it. Yeah, 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.400 this is like almost Area fifty one level secrecy right 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:39.480 where where people it's it's it's common knowledge that the 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.160 thing exists, but not common knowledge of what's going on 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.640 with It's very much like Area fifty one, what's for 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.919 many years. So the setup I have on this is 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:56.960 on Friday October, an unmanned plane landed autonomously, I should add, 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.639 at Vandenburg Air Force Base in California, and it had 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:08.440 spent six hundred seventy four days, nearly two full years 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.400 in lower th orbit in space. It flew for two 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:18.000 years up in space. Yeah, um, so the landing marked 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.920 the end of the I call it a test flight, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.320 but really you could just call it a mission of 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.560 the X thirty seven B space plane, also known as 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.440 the Orbital Test Vehicle or O t V. And there 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:34.400 are two of those planes in existence and together they've 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:39.320 logged more than one thousand, three hundred sixty seven days 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.360 in orbit total. Uh and that's across three missions. So 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:48.320 that's a lot of time at once. So you might 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.560 want to know what's going on. And the thing is, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.200 like we mentioned, the need to know basis that you 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.080 don't need to know, and neither do we. Well, I 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.360 think eventually that we're going to know. We being the 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.440 public eventually we have to know. Um. But there's there's 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.240 a story behind this. It's a culmination of stuff that 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.320 began decades ago, right, Yeah, it started back in the 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.320 nineteen nineties. Uh so turn your watch back, if you will, 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.240 to the magical decade of the nineties. Grunge music is 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:21.279 all the rage. You know, the Generation xers are making 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:27.080 sardonic entertainment left and right, Empire records that kind of thing. Um. So, 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.520 NASA at that point was looking into the future of 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:36.520 space exploration, particularly the type that doesn't need human beings 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.720 on spacecraft. Yeah. Humans are such a hassle in space. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.520 You have to you have to spend so much time, 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:47.800 technology and money just like make them not die. Yeah, 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.040 get the little guys up there and back. Yeah. Yeah. 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.719 Keeping keeping humans alive in space is a tall order 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.640 because there's a lot of stuff in space that is 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.159 really deadly. Right. It's not our neck of the woods, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.440 So vacuum space, you've got radiation, you've got microgravity, which 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.080 over a long enough time period can cause some serious 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.560 health problems. Objects at high speeds, yeah, space debris, all 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:15.039 this sort of stuff. And you know, clearly the space 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.560 age we've had our share of tragedies and you know, 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.160 we definitely aren't making light of that. That's one of 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.919 the reasons why so much effort and money has have 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:30.400 been put forward into these unmanned missions. And can we 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:35.920 find ways of getting stuff to space, let's say, like 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.560 a like a refueling mission or a you know, uh, 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:46.080 you're replenishing inventory aboard the International Space Station without the 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:50.360 need for a manned space flight. And so there there's 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.479 a real reason why NASA was interested in this, and 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.440 um they were, you know. Apart from that, it also 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.840 reduces cost. Oh yeah, yeah, you don't have to have 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.479 a life support system, for example, in an unmanned spacecraft. 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:11.160 That alone, we'll save you millions of bucks. Right. So 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:16.440 in NASA announced that it was developing a pair of vehicles, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.440 one called the orbital Vehicle and one called the Approach 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.839 and Landing Test Vehicle or a L t V UH. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.760 And the A l t V S purpose was to 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.920 test the approach and landing systems of an unmanned plane, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.120 so this one was not designed to go into space. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.800 The A L t V and H. NASA partnered with 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.120 Boeing and the Air Force in order to get this 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.160 program going. So the A l t V was just 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.080 an unmantened I say just it was an unmanned plane, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.080 because it was amazing to me that you could build 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:50.200 an autonomous vehicle that could land a plane, yeah, on 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.679 a landing strip. Well, in this case, it wasn't taking 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.000 off because what they did with this was they would 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.559 lift it up on another vehicle and then drop it, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.080 and then they would allow the unmanned vehicle to fly 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.640 itself to the proper landing destination and land so the 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.040 al V it could not take off on its own, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.640 it couldn't go into space. But it was designed mainly 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.240 as a test platform for the autonomous guidance system and 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.280 landing sort of a proof of concept, yeah, because I mean, obviously, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.920 if you want to build upon this and create a vehicle, 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.680 an unmanned vehicle that can go into space, first you 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.480 want to make absolutely certain that you have taken steps 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.920 to show that it can land before you pour in 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.120 all the money that is necessary for it to be 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.760 able to survive the rigors of space travel. Yeah. And 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.560 there's a little bit of a I guess a geopolitical 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.480 calculation with this kind of stuff too, because if in 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.720 orbit decays, right, if the thing gets into space and 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.840 it crashes or it just doesn't land where it's supposed to. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.800 Then not only have you the launching party, lost billions 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.800 of dollars, right, but you've also given all of this 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.200 research to another country, and maybe not a friendly one. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.840 Yeah exactly. I mean we've seen this sort of stuff 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.000 throughout the history of the uh well really the Cold 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.840 War is you know, like things like the YouTube's YouTube 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.200 spy plane going down and the fact that that was 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.320 a huge concern that that uh the the adversaries to 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.880 the United States had suddenly gained access to some of 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.960 that technology. Uh well, you know that's clearly another concern 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:28.280 for this sort of stuff. You want to make sure 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.880 that everything is working properly before you ever put it 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.280 towards any kind of sensitive use or even just a 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.880 scientific experiment or whatever, Like maybe it's too you know, um, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.840 deploy a satellite or something, or even even something more sophisticated, 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.800 like to fix a satellite to repair solar panels. Yeah. Yeah, 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.760 So this, like I said, Boeing was partnering with NASA 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:56.000 to develop these It would ultimately under this part of 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:00.520 the the program own it would only develop the alt 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.080 V for NASA that's as far as it got. But 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.600 it was designated as the X thirty seven A aircraft 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.800 or spacecraft. Really yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so much easier 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.400 to say that than uh, you know, alt V or whatever. 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:22.280 So it was similar to an earlier unmanned aircraft that 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.840 was again made by Boeing, but this one was operated 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.599 by the Air Force. It was the X forty A 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.160 H And again the X forty A was meant as 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.880 a test platform for things that would ultimately go on 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:42.480 an unmanned space plane type vehicle. Uh so another proof 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.640 of concept, kind of like the idea that we want 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.480 to make sure that we get, you know, take the 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.320 right steps. We're not gonna we're not gonna leap and 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.839 jump over like six steps of development. We're going to 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.960 use this as an incremental approach. So the X forty 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.719 A could not actually go into space, but again was 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.560 to test certain technolog je's It also was too small 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.520 for NASA, and could we Yeah, it was too small 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.080 for NASSY. Could we before we go on? Uh, could 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.600 you talk a little bit about just the dramatic waste 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:17.280 in typical conventional launches. Oh? Sure, yeah, I mean, like 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:22.440 so generally speaking, the rule of thumb is that a 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:27.280 launch with a government funded space launch is about ten 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.520 thousand dollars per pound. Per per pound, every pound of 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.160 payload that you want to put into space cost ten grand. 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.640 So imagine that you have a vehicle that has all 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.120 these different support systems on it for astronauts. That adds 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.280 to the weight, plus then you have the payload of 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.199 the spacecraft itself. So something like the Space Shuttle program, 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:51.320 which was designed to take material into space, either as 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.560 like a satellite to be deployed, or tools to repair 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.720 things that already existed like the hubble Um, or even 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.439 just a trip to the International Space to bring supplies 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.800 up there. All of that weight is a factor in 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.439 the cost of launch. If you do an unmanned spacecraft 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.160 and you reduce the weight of the spacecraft, you've reduced 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.839 the You know, even even though the X three seven 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.080 A was larger than the X forty A, it's still 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.440 significantly smaller than Space Shuttle, and that means that it 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.120 would cost less to put up. You know, you have 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.319 to use less fuel, so it costs less to put 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.960 it up into lower th orbit. When I say less, 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.880 it's still really expensive. By the way, when I the 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:39.400 reason why I stressed government funded space launch is there 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.680 a lot of private companies that have been arguing that 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.480 by privatizing they could bring down the price of launching 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:51.320 payloads into space. So things like space x have really 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:56.400 helped to to reduce that cost. So then getting into 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.080 the differences between the X forty A and the X 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.480 thirty seven A, despite the fact that it's a lower 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.200 number of the X thirty seven A is a bigger spacecraft. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.199 It's a larger than the X forty A. And there 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.640 are other differences as well. Once we get to the 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.480 one that actually was designed to go into space, Yeah, 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.719 that one's got advanced thermal protection spacecraft systems, that kind 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.199 of thing. So the thirty seven A and the forty 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.560 A were both designed just to be test platforms, so 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.240 they didn't need all that all the extra stuff. So 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.040 we're going through this incremental testing and starting to see 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:35.520 if we can really make this this vision a reality, 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:39.400 this autonomous, super secret spacecraft, which I just love the 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.520 idea of it out at how um, how do the 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.200 bureaucratic changes. So yeah, this we're talking a lot about 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.320 NASA right now, and you might be thinking, well, why 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:55.240 is this space plane so secret. NASA is not about secrecy, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.600 and it's not the thirty seven A wasn't meant to 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.880 be secret at all. In fact, that's a lot of 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.400 the information you can find about the spacecraft is right 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.720 there on NASA's website because it's it's all publicly available. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:14.280 But some changes would end up making the let's say, 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.280 the stewardship of the thirty seven X three seven program 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.880 change hands. So first, in two thousand and one, the 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:24.000 Air Force withdrew its support for the project, it's financial support. 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.240 It was one of three parties that was partner to 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.840 fund this, the other two being NASA and Boeing. Air 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.680 Force pulls out in two thousand one, NASA keeps going 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.520 with the partnership with Boeing. Uh, they had to end up, um, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.560 you know, going to the government and saying, hey, we 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.839 need grants and stuff in order for this to keep going, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.760 otherwise the project's gonna collapse from the inside. This continues 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.600 until two thousand four, and that's when NASA ends up 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.280 handing over the control of the X thirty seven program 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.800 to the Defense Advanced Research Projects AGE and SEE also 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.199 known as DARPA, which I've talked about multiple times. On 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.480 this podcast. Yeah, we've talked about a couple of other 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.400 shows too. DARPA. I'm assuming that people have heard this 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.120 name before, but the rumors are true. It is the 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.640 closest thing the US has to a mad science department. Yeah, 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:22.120 it's the Department of Defenses mad science department. Yeah. And 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.520 it's not like DARPA is filled with a bunch of 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:31.000 yeah in lab coats, like locked away forty forty levels underground. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.040 In fact, mostly what DARPA does is invite other entities 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.600 to develop for specific purposes. So I did an episode 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.840 not long ago talking about how DARPA was instrumental in 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.440 the rapid development of autonomous car technology. Yeah. Um so 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.920 in this it's very akin to that. This is an 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:56.040 autonomous spacecraft technology. So you know, you're you're talking about 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.880 the continuation of an idea and just expanding it, you know, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.440 explaining the parameters. Really. Uh So, in this case, DARPA 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.640 takes over, and it meant that the X three seven 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.360 fell under the control of the Department of Defense, which 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.000 also meant that the X three seven suddenly became a 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.040 classified project. It was no longer this this you know, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.960 very public facing project from NASA. Now it's a classified 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.640 project under the Department of Defense. Yeah, which you know, 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:27.760 which is kind of a bummer, but also understandable given 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.080 that the kind of technology that they would be working 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.280 on is not something you want or or really can 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.920 have open sourced, you know, because other countries will get involved, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.760 other countries will reverse engineer, and there's a lot of 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.800 um Again, this is this is where I think we 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.480 start to see a political aspect to become even more apparent. 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.920 But but the story is not done yet, right. So 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.440 remember the Air Force had pulled sort of it's it's 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.560 supporting two thousand one. November two thousand and six, it 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.960 announces it's going to develop a variation of the X 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.040 thirty seven A. Remember the orbital vehicle that NASA had proposed. 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.320 They never got to the point where that was actually built. 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:11.320 They had built the one that was the approach and 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.080 landing test vehicle, but not the orbital one. And the 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.280 Air Force wanted to build an orbital vehicle. Uh. They 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.560 called it the orbital test vehicle, so the O t 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.880 V UH, and they designated it the X thirty seven B. 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.080 So thirty seven A was the one that NASA used 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:33.640 to test this approach and landing uh technology, and this 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.000 one was meant to actually go into space. Uh. So 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.160 the top secret program falls to the control of the 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.560 Air Force. Now, the official word from the Air Force 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:49.160 as to the purpose of the X thirty seven program 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.520 is this is a direct quote from their website. The 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.160 X thirty seven B Orbital Test Vehicle or O t 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:00.760 V is an experimental test program to demonstrate technologies for 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:06.240 a reliable, reusable, unmanned space test platform for the US 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.919 Air Force. The primary objectives of the X thirty seven 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:14.600 B are twofold reusable spacecraft technologies for America's future in 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.199 space and operating experiments which can be returned to and 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:23.560 examined on Earth. So, um, there's some important stuff in 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.880 there that really does play into the purpose of this thing. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.440 The big one being that it is a reusable spacecraft, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.760 so it's not a one and done right uh. And 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.240 this was the same purpose for the Space Shuttle program. 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.480 It was the difference between that and previous programs where 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.359 like a capsule would go up and come back down, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.600 and then once it came down and had to be retired, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.480 you couldn't use it again. This is the difference between 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.679 you know, those and and those previous UH spacecraft and 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.200 things like the Space Shuttle and the X thirty seven spacecraft. Yeah, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.920 we're kind of locked into it at this point because 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.560 we've put so much money in at the front, so 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.600 we'll have to we'll have to make that money back. Um. 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.959 I'm I'm just tickled because what I love about these 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:15.240 relatively up to kind of explanations is that there there's clearly, um, 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.800 there's clearly a reliance on vague language. The word test 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.000 is used three times in the first sentence, and the 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.879 substantive You are right, they are saying substantive things. The 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:31.119 reusable spacecraft is probably the biggest part of it. Another 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:36.200 part is the testing of the instruments, which, again, although 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.720 you and I don't really know that, that seems like 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.040 one of the best guesses. Yeah, and you know, you 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.600 could argue that part of this, the existence of this 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:50.440 is really just too incrementally build towards a future spacecraft 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.760 that has not yet been designed for specific purposes that 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:59.040 may go beyond this testing that we're talking about. Uh. 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:04.240 And another wise, maybe that it's to test related technologies 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.639 that are not intended to make the spacecraft itself more effective, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.200 but rather just say, hey, we built this sensor. The 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.080 sensor is meant to do this specific task when it's 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.720 in space, but we don't know if the sensor can 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:24.480 actually withstand being in space, like being exposed to radiation. 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.679 But then you think, oh, I've got this unmanned vehicle. 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.399 I can put it up into orbit for hundreds of 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.879 days at a time and expose the sensor to the 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.159 same kinds of radiation it will would experience if it 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.760 were incorporated into some other type of spacecraft, and then 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.480 we can test and see if in fact the thing 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.360 we designed will still work, you know, once it's in space. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:55.760 So those are I mean, that's a valid thing. But 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.560 but because of the secrecy involved, the fact that these 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:05.199 these d tails cannot legally be shared, has led to 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:10.520 some really interesting hypotheses, some more grounded than others. I 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.359 like that to use the term grounded. Yes, space ground 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.359 here all day. I'm surprised we got this far without 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.040 another space fund. We've got a ton in the notes 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.320 and they were all well unintentional, might be going a 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.360 bit far, Like I would realize that while typing it out, 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.919 and I'm like, oh, okay, I'm ahead to do it. 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.159 But we do know, we do know a lot about 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.080 the X thirty seven. You can see pictures of it online. 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.280 You can see some great footage of it that comes 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.520 from i think ultimately from the Air Force themselves. Yeah. Yeah, 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.800 because I mean the landing is impressive, right, the fact 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.800 that this is landing autonomously, so it's unmanned. But it's 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:56.080 not just unmanned. There's no one remote controlling this aircraft 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.679 when it comes down and land, right. It's not a drone. 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.640 That's very important. Yeah, it's it's it's fully under its 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.280 own NA navigation power. Uh. So here's some of the 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.000 facts that we know about it. And a lot of 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.479 this is because again, it started its life out as 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.239 a NASA project, so there were some details that were 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.360 already out there and the Air Force is like, well, heck, 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:16.800 we don't care about this part. This isn't the important part. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.480 Just don't talk about the lasers, right, yeah, I mean 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.359 the tickle device. Yeah, it's just there to tickle space. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.560 That's all it's meant to do. So here's what we 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.480 do know. Uh. It is twenty nine ft three inches long, 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.760 which is about eight point nine meters. When it's on 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.600 its landing gear. It is nine ft six inches tall 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.400 or about two point nine ms. Now at that space, 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.399 even if you had a pressurized cabin, you wouldn't be 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.080 able to really have astronauts right in it. Uh. The 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.720 X three seven B does not have a pressurized cabin, 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.399 so it cannot carry up anything living, at least nothing 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.800 that you expect to remain. So it's it could carry 0:21:55.880 --> 0:22:00.119 up non animate uh like cargo that could and not 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.359 a whole lot of it at that's at that size. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.399 From wing tip to wing tip, it is four ft 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.560 eleven inches wide or four point five meters, and it 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:14.360 weighs a slimming eleven thousand pounds or four thousand UH. 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.159 It's power system it uses lithium ion batteries to to 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:23.199 supply power to its um it's thrusters, but it is 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.720 uh it's got gallium arsenide solar cells to recharge those. 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:29.920 That's why it can stay in space so long. Because 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.119 that's the question that a lot of people have at 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.520 the beginning, is how does it manage to retain power 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.199 for that long and returned to its original um you know, 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.240 returned to its launch point on its own power. This 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.399 is not necessarily a powerful vehicle on its own. No, 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.720 it cannot take off from Earth, and it certainly cannot 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.359 escape Earth's gravity on its own. It has to have 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:59.320 a launch vehicle, also more commonly referred to by we 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.280 mere mortals as rockets. So you guess, trap one of 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:07.480 these suckers onto a rocket UM, typically an Atlas V 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.440 Applas Atlas five. I guess I should say, let's say 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:16.600 V call I X I I UM the Atlas five rocket. 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:18.120 You have to strap it up to one of those 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.159 suckers to get it out into space in the first place. So, 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.919 and that actually has raised some folks um objections to 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.960 this whole approach, but we'll get into that a little bit. 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:31.880 So the way it would work is, originally they were 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.520 thinking about having this kind of piggyback onto a space shuttle, 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:37.840 So if you were going to launch a space shuttle, 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:40.560 you could also launch a space plane. However, the Columbia 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.800 disaster really caused NASA to reevaluate the space shuttle program 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:46.960 for quite some time. In fact, it was it was 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.160 put on the ground for a good long time after 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.679 the Columbia disaster, as NASA was reevaluating the program and 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:57.199 seeing how to make it so that that kind of 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.840 tragedy would never happen again, So I meant that that 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.400 would no longer be a viable means of getting the 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.760 X thirty seven into space. So at that point, the 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.679 reevaluation for X thirty seven meant they looked at it 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.240 as a payload for other launch vehicles, and they settled 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.560 on the United Launch Alliance at last five. So the 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.160 launch vehicle delivers the X thirty seven to low Earth orbit. 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:22.800 Low Earth orbit is the same orbit that you find 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:26.399 the International Space Station. It's the same Earth orbit the 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:29.480 Hubble spacecraft or Hubble space telescope is in. It's the 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.360 same Earth orbit. Or it's the same orbit that all 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.200 the Space Shuttle missions went to. So in other words, 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:37.200 there have only been a couple of times that human 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:41.120 beings have ever gone beyond beyond low Earth orbit. Those 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.760 times would be when we sent people to the Moon. Otherwise, 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:46.960 everything has been in low Earth orbit, which is relatively 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.239 close to the Earth. From our perspective, it's way the 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:51.800 heck out there. But if you were to look at 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:56.160 Earth from a much like not even a bird's eye view, obviously, 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.240 but much further out, you would say, oh, low Earth 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:01.560 orbit is still very much in the neighborhood. Yeah, a 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.359 space bird. Well, I guess one of the great ways 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.439 to imagine this is if you look at a picture 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.240 with the distance between Earth's Moon and Earth, Yeah, and 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.480 then you see the line your Earth orbit is very 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.760 very close. Yeah, exactly. And it's also where a lot 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:20.720 of space debris happens to be. There's other space because 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:22.800 we do have satellites that are much further out right, 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:26.520 We've got like the the geosynchronous satellites are much further 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:31.200 out than lowerth orbit. But those were delivered by unmanned spacecraft. 0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:35.280 They weren't They weren't put there by astronauts. Uh, So 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:38.080 that that is, you know, we do have stuff that's 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.119 further out, but it's not stuff from manned missions. And 0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:43.640 this unmanned mission would end up going and that's say, 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:50.000 very low Earth orbit. Uh, and it could stay. Originally 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:51.920 I think they were planning on having it stayed between 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:54.960 two hundred and three hundred days, not quite a year. Yeah, 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:57.760 that would be pretty much the limit that was originally, 0:25:57.840 --> 0:25:59.720 or at least that was kind of what the mission 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:02.439 for meters were going to be. But as it turns out, 0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:04.520 it can stay up there much longer than that. So 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:09.560 the very first mission for an X thirty seven launched 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:15.919 on April and landed on December three, landed without a hitch. 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:19.639 Some of their tests landings that they did where they 0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:23.879 just dropped one of these X thirty seven's from another aircraft, 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:28.160 some of them were successful, not all of them were. Yeah, 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:31.120 they had some issues where I think on the very 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.480 I think the very first time they tried to land 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:38.359 one um when the mission hadn't been scrapped for weather. 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.679 It ended up landing on the landing strip, but it 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:45.040 overshot a little bit and rolled off the end and 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:49.120 sustained minor damage. No. No, And then remember they built 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.560 two of these things. Originally they were just going to 0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:54.360 do one, but they ended up building two. So that 0:26:54.480 --> 0:27:00.560 first mission lasted two four days, and the X thirty 0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:04.760 seven traveled approximately ninety one million miles in those two 0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:08.280 four days, which is about a hundred forty six million kilometers. 0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:12.560 The second mission was launched on March five eleven. Now 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:15.399 this was the second of the two X thirty seven, 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:17.960 so it wasn't the same one that went up in 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:22.240 important to remember because remember the whole purpose of these 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:25.080 was so you have reusable the idea being you could 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:28.119 turn it around fairly quickly and launch it for a 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:31.280 new mission. But they didn't reuse the original one, not 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.359 for this one. They decided, all right, we're going to 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:37.280 stagger these. So the second one went up in on 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:42.320 March two thousand eleven. Uh, this was supposed to only 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:45.520 last only it's a weird way of putting it only 0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:49.520 last two hundred seventy days as an incredibly long time 0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:52.480 to just be you know, just being a spacecraft. Remember 0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:54.760 it's not the International Space Station or anything like that. 0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:58.080 But on November twenty nine, two thousand eleven, the Air 0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:00.399 Force announced it was going to extend the mission, you know, 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:03.400 just let go for a while off. So it eventually 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:07.879 landed on June twelve, which means it lasted four hundred 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:12.080 sixty nine days. That is mind blowing. Yeah, so the 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:16.439 spacecraft was just orbiting Earth for four six days. Sometimes, 0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:18.639 by the way, it's low enough that you can spot it. 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:24.640 Amateur satellite investigators or observers can check it out. You 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:29.640 can go online and find the find the correct forums, 0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:34.800 which allow you to track pretty much anything that is 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:37.640 in orbit. If it's close enough to be seen, it's 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:41.960 it's the Great Achilles heel of secrecy in space. Yeah. Yeah, 0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:45.600 if you're like, hey, that's stars moving, the chances are 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:47.720 it's not a star, and it's not. It's not the 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:51.719 Death Star. Probably probably, it's more likely a space station 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:55.880 or a spacecraft. Um. So the third mission launched onto 0:28:55.880 --> 0:29:00.160 Samarrella AT and this one was the same spacecraft that 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:03.880 did the launched So this was the first one, the 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:11.040 first X thirty seven b um. Now this particular one, uh, 0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.040 lasted for six d seventy four days. This is the 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:15.520 one we talked about where it was just shy of 0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:20.400 two years. Um, pretty amazing that it could stay up 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.400 that long. It landed on October seventeen, So this is 0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:24.920 the one I was referring to at the top of 0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:29.320 the show. And uh, the fourth mission is scheduled to 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:33.040 launch on May six, but again we're in early April 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:36.360 as we record this, so that's still in our future, right. 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.800 But what happens on these missions, that's a great question. Then. 0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.000 Remember how I said it was classified and top secret? 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:48.160 Do you think I have that clearance? Where we going? 0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:50.880 I thought this was I thought you were doing a bit. 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:53.440 You're the guy who knows the stuff. They don't want 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:55.560 you to know if anything, I should be asking you 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:59.040 this question. Well, uh yeah, well here's the thing, and 0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:02.560 and and thank you for the shout out, but rumors 0:30:02.680 --> 0:30:07.680 proliferate me in the absence of transparency. That's actually absolutely 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:10.960 like if you you know, you obviously can't deny the 0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:14.840 existence of this thing, because we all know it exists, 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:18.880 but if you cannot also explain the reason for it, 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.000 or what its purposes or what it is doing, then 0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:25.680 in the absence that vacuum of information, nature of whors 0:30:25.720 --> 0:30:29.880 a vacuum. So we'll fill it with conjecture. Don't worry 0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:32.360 about not telling us what it does. We will take 0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:35.560 care of that for you by suggesting every kind of 0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:39.320 hypothesis you can imagine. Okay, But with all that being said, 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:42.640 now we get to do one of the most enjoyable, 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:47.880 fascinating and sometimes slippery, slopish kind of things, which is 0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:51.520 we begin to assemble some of the facts we definitely 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:55.000 know and see if that builds out toward a larger picture. Right, 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:58.120 all right, Yeah, So here's here's what we know. DARPA 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:01.000 took control of it. It's part of the Department of Defense. 0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:04.840 The Air Force is running it, so it's a military operation. 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:08.400 With it being a military operation, you can therefore assume 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:11.680 that it's going to be doing some things that would 0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:16.920 in the long term support military operations. Right, it's not. 0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:21.440 It's not gonna be a cable television satellite deployment device. 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.040 That's not gonna help you know, the air forces. Like 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:26.480 we're strapped for cash. Let's see if Comcast wants us 0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:29.000 to put something up in the sky, that's not gonna happen. 0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:34.600 So therefore we narrow that the down the possible uses 0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:37.680 for this to military things that would benefit the military 0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:43.240 in some form or fashion. So that gives us some 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:49.080 some direction. Uh So, one of the popular hypotheses is 0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:52.400 that the X three seven is acting like a spy satellite, 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:58.400 which maybe to spy upon land targets or even other 0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:02.800 spacecraft other targets in space, so it could be a satellite. Um. 0:32:02.800 --> 0:32:05.120 In fact, there were a lot of people saying, hey, 0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:09.840 this you know, most recent test had the spacecraft X 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:15.600 thirty seven on the same general orbit as a Chinese satellite. Yeah, 0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:19.800 the Tongue Young one or some and yeah, and that's 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:22.200 a that's a space lab. It's been up for a while, 0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:26.200 it has its own refueling so of course people people 0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:29.800 would guess that this is a satellite either spine on 0:32:29.920 --> 0:32:34.560 other satellites or giving imagery from the ground mapping. In 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:38.080 other words, in the orbitable path of the X thirty 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:42.640 seven B takes it over on Southeast Asia, Latin America, 0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:45.959 parts the Middle East, notably I Rock. So it's not 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.840 an unreasonable guess. Yeah, you can understand why people would 0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:53.960 would suggest this. Um, and we don't know all the 0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.120 equipment that's aboard the X seven years. I have noticed 0:32:57.120 --> 0:32:59.480 that we didn't give you a rundown on like it 0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:02.080 has kind of camera system on it or because we 0:33:02.120 --> 0:33:04.520 don't know, but we'd love to do that. But the 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:06.240 stuff we do know is sort of vague. We know 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:09.480 it has the solar array, right, we know that. We 0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:13.280 know that's what allows it to stay up for so long. Uh, 0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:15.160 you know, I can't say that would be able to 0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:17.960 stay up indefinitely, but it certainly is staying up there 0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:21.200 an incredibly long amount of time for something designed to 0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:23.560 fly up and fly back down. Yeah, you know it's 0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:28.680 not again, it's not space station. UM. So here's the 0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.920 thing about the idea of it spying on the space Lab. 0:33:32.080 --> 0:33:37.280 That's not really physically possible, right right, Yeah, absolutely, because 0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:40.000 you can. You can check out some of the words 0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:44.560 from the analysts. This idea of it following a satellite 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:48.520 came about from that speculation. But there's a guy named 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:52.720 Jim Oberg who is who is a space analyst, which 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:54.800 is a great job to have. Yeah, I would love 0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:59.040 to have that job. Looks pretty empty to me. Yeah, 0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:02.840 I believe that's start. No, it's moving, Yeah, exactly. We'd 0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:05.560 be very good at that. Yeah, I think I think 0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:09.319 we got a new podcast, so so um, let's go 0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:12.040 ahead and and uh, well we'll finish quoting Jim and 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:14.120 invite him to the show later on our on our 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:17.520 space ample of stuff. Uh. He points out that these 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:21.440 two objects, the Chinese Space Lab and the X thirty 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:24.960 seven B, there in orbits that crossed the equator about 0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:28.239 ninety degrees apart. So when they do criss cross each 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:31.920 other's paths, they're going thousands of meters per second. So 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.480 how how can you make an observation You're you're going 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:39.239 by so quickly that there's no there's no way to 0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:42.560 get any meaningful information. Um, it would be kind of like, 0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:45.879 let's let's imagine that Ben for a moment, that that 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.799 you're writing with Scott. Okay, yeah, now Scott Scott from 0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:53.360 car stuff, because you guys do car stuff together. Scott, 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:57.759 he's got a lead foot man. He likes he likes 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:02.439 to drive fast. So let's say that he's driving by Uh, 0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:05.000 you're you're in the passenger seat. He's he's flying down 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.640 the road. He's in one of his his amazingly souped 0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:12.279 up muscle cars. By the way, totally making this up. 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:14.879 But let's let's say that he's or sports vehicle. Let's 0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:16.719 say it's either faster than a muscle car. It's a 0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:19.480 sports car that's designed to go fast. It's it's one 0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:21.879 of those that was converted from an old race car. 0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:26.920 And you zoom past a person that neither of you know, 0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:31.839 and he asks you what colored their eyes were. It's 0:35:31.920 --> 0:35:36.279 like that, except multiply it by way faster speeds. So 0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:39.120 it's just it's it's impossible to get any kind of 0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:43.680 meaningful information from that. So what's another hypothesis. How about 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:47.919 it's not actually doing any spying of its own, it's 0:35:48.000 --> 0:35:52.600 just testing spy technology. Okay, like, what why would they 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:55.160 be doing that? Well, let's say that again, kind of 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:58.560 like that idea of these sensors that you might want 0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:04.319 in order to to monitor something like, uh, nuclear deployment 0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:08.360 in another country, or any other kind of sensor you 0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:11.440 can imagine that would be useful for military purposes. And 0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:14.440 they've built these on Earth. See here's the downfall that 0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:17.759 we have about our our technologies for space. We have 0:36:17.920 --> 0:36:22.879 to build them for the most part here on Earth. So, yeah, 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:25.680 that's where we keep all our stuff, right, that's the 0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:28.160 way the tick would say, not the Earth, That's where 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.799 I keep all my stuff. So because we have all 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:34.320 that stuff here and we're developing everything here, we're building 0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:38.359 it here, we can never be fully certain that the 0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:41.440 thing we designed here on Earth is going to work 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:45.399 the way we had intended once it's in space. So 0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:49.600 it may be that this is acting as a platform 0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:52.799 to test these technologies, see if they are in fact 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:57.319 viable in a space environment, and return to Earth, so 0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.719 that we can be certain that the stuff we developed 0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:03.120 is in fact doing what it was intended to do, 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:06.040 or at least figure out how it broke. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 0:37:06.080 --> 0:37:08.200 if it's not working, then we try and figure out 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:10.600 why is it not working, what caused that? What was 0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:15.640 the thing was did it encounter a like some cosmic 0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:18.680 radiation and it ended up messing everything up. If so, 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:20.920 is there some way we can shield it from that 0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:23.759 that kind of thing? I think actually that this is 0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:29.359 probably the the most likely out of all the different hypotheses. Yeah, 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.040 I agree, because pretty much what the Air Force has said, 0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:36.480 and and it's it has precedent behind it because they've 0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:40.000 continually built these platforms, as you said earlier, So it 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:42.880 makes sense. And you also want to check because especially 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:46.400 if this is new, uh new technology of any sort, 0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:48.480 it's going to be a little bit delicate, and you know, 0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:53.319 sensors are well sensitive. Yeah. Yeah, And and you could 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:55.200 even argue that maybe it doesn't even go that far. 0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:58.160 Maybe it's just the Air Force wanting to test this 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:03.560 autonomous uh nature and to make sure that they can 0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:07.840 rely upon it even if the mission extends much further 0:38:07.920 --> 0:38:12.040 out than what was originally anticipated. That's valuable information to know. 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:17.200 Maybe it's not doing anything remotely you know, secret right now, 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.840 other than just making sure it works, which that's important 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:24.919 to know, and we can't know without the tests. So 0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:29.399 then there's another hypothesis where um, the X thirty seven 0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:33.799 is a delivery mechanism for space weapons, space weapons. How 0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:37.239 do we define space weapons? That's an excellent question. It's 0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:39.680 one that cannot be answered right now because it's a 0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:42.960 question that comes up over and over in treaty discussions 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:49.839 and h arms control discussions. People disagree over and by 0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:53.960 people I mean states like countries, disagree over the definition 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.200 of space weapons. So, for example, perhaps you have a 0:38:57.239 --> 0:39:02.160 missile detection system, like a satellite system that's deployed. Some 0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:04.879 would argue that as a space weapon. Now it might 0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:09.000 be up space weapon in the form of defense, but 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:13.279 they would still argue that counts under certain definitions. And 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:17.880 other states, presumably the states that actually have missile detection 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:21.600 systems in place, would say this totally doesn't count as 0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:24.680 a space weapon. And we'll talk more about why they 0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:28.720 would say that a little bit later. But the Pentagon, 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.840 just for the record, denies that in fact, the X 0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:34.440 thirty seven has anything to do with space weapon deployment. 0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:39.240 Explicitly denies it. And also, you know this concern about 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:42.520 space weapons and militarization. I know, we'll talk about it 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:45.160 a little bit later, but there is also precedent in 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:53.520 unclassified public record Pentagon statements, especially under Rumsfeld's heading of 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:58.799 the Administration, Donald Rumsfeld. There is an active desire on 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:02.120 the part of not just the US but other countries 0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:07.000 to to explore the possibilities of defensive capability in space. 0:40:07.480 --> 0:40:09.480 It just makes sense. It's not a secret. I mean, 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:13.880 anyone who lived through the eighties remembers the star Wars program, 0:40:13.880 --> 0:40:16.520 the so called star Wars program, which was a proposed 0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:22.080 and ultimately abandoned plan to put an anti missile system 0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:26.440 into space to protect against the potential first strike situation 0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:29.560 or even you know, not even a first strike, but 0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:33.680 maybe even a counter strike if you're being super cynical 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:38.200 of you know, a system meant to to uh disarm 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:43.000 or disable incoming missiles that could target the United States. Ultimately, 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:47.239 it didn't go into place. Um and I want to 0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:49.360 say I've done an episode about that, but if I haven't, 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.160 I absolutely need to. Yeah, I feel like we talked 0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:55.239 about this, maybe we talked about off air, but that 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.040 would be that would be a fantastic episode. Uh, It's 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.040 it's such an it's such an interesting thing. We could 0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:04.439 also talk about dead hands systems, but yeah, but that's 0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:07.839 a story for another day. Doctor Strange love stuff. Yeah, 0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:11.800 I'm almost certain that Chris and I did one episode 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:13.440 on it at some point, but I'll have to do 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:16.120 a search because once you do around seven hundred episodes, 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:21.320 you really can't remember. Yeah. Well, and for me, honestly 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:25.840 after I did about ten episodes. But so anyway, there 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:29.560 are other hypotheses as well, or other other um statements 0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:33.239 that have come out from various experts about the potential 0:41:33.400 --> 0:41:36.840 use of the X thirty seven. Uh. Laura Grego of 0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:40.680 the Global Security Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists 0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:43.479 says that the design of the X thirty seven really 0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:46.560 limits what it could be able to do, and she 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:50.279 says that really can't maneuver easily in orbit, so it 0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:53.240 would be very limited in its use as either spy 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:57.120 technology or a space weapon. Like we were saying earlier, 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:02.400 you can sometimes see this thing from so maneuvering it is. 0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:05.520 It's really hard to make that a secret, right right. 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:08.040 Let's say, like if if everyone notices that the X 0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:11.160 thirty seven happens to be in a particular quadrant that's 0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:14.600 near say a Russian spy satellite, and that spy satellite 0:42:14.600 --> 0:42:17.239 suddenly goes offline, it does not take a lot of 0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:21.600 imagination to connect those two things together. This is not 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:24.880 a who done it? Yeah, so probably not going to 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:29.080 be used for clandestine purposes in that case. Um. She 0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:31.560 also says it's not large enough to be a satellite launcher. 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:34.239 It doesn't have the cargo capacity to hold most satellites. 0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:37.600 I mean, if you're talking about like the small cluster 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:41.279 satellites that some people have referred to. Maybe, but it's 0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:45.640 not designed to carry anything of substantial size, so that's 0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:47.799 probably not what it's being used. What it can do, 0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:50.879 she says, is carry cargo up into space, and that's 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:55.680 about it. Then you have another expert, Mark Gubrand or Gubrid, 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:59.000 who is an adjunct Assistant professor of physics and Astronomy 0:42:59.000 --> 0:43:00.960 at the University of North care Larne at Chapel Hill, 0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:03.960 who says that space planes like the X thirty seven 0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:07.640 are not more effective than traditional launches of satellites or 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.280 space weapons, even potential space weapons. So in other words, 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:14.960 putting them into other types of spacecraft to go up 0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:18.240 into space that that aren't designed to come back down, 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:21.600 so there's no real advantage Like, yeah, you've got the 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:25.000 reusable factor, which presumably would cut down on the cost 0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:29.640 somewhat of space launches. But that it's such a complicated 0:43:29.719 --> 0:43:32.279 endeavor and it's really designed to stay up there for 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:34.960 a really long time, that it doesn't make sense to 0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:37.960 use it as a delivery mechanism. There's no reason why 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:41.120 your delivery mechanism would need to remain up in low 0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:45.480 earth orbit for hundreds of days. You just get out there, 0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:48.719 you deliver it, you're done. So his argument is that, well, 0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:51.120 it doesn't really make sense. In fact, he would argue 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:54.239 that the only reason that the program still exists because 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:56.799 it has so much momentum, that there was so much 0:43:56.880 --> 0:44:01.200 money and effort put into developing it, that it would 0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:03.759 you know, it's kind of taken a life of its own. 0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:06.440 It's a sunk cost at this point. Yeah, saying that, 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.680 you know, it doesn't make sense compared to the alternatives. However, 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:13.360 it's we already got the ball rolling, and now it's 0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:16.720 going to continue to roll right wherever it ends up rolling. 0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:19.880 And then there's another interesting thing that you have proposed. 0:44:20.080 --> 0:44:22.120 You said, what what if it's what if there's a 0:44:22.120 --> 0:44:25.520 psychological aspect? Yeah, there there's some who have suggested that 0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:29.240 perhaps at least part of the reason why this project, 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:32.120 let's say that the project ultimately people say, yeah, there's 0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:35.319 no there's no practical reason to continue it because we 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:39.040 can accomplish a lot of the same goals using alternative 0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:43.839 means that don't require this autonomous vehicle. UM. Some have said, well, 0:44:43.880 --> 0:44:48.560 maybe it's just a kind of freak out potential adversaries 0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:54.080 like the Chinese. I like, okay, first off, that sounds 0:44:54.280 --> 0:44:57.280 so ridiculous on the offset, it sounds like a billion 0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:01.040 dollar prank. Yeah, I agree, like, like, hey, guys, you know, 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:05.360 I'm concerned about what's happening over in China, and obviously 0:45:05.440 --> 0:45:07.879 we can't declare war or anything like that, but how 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.920 do we scare them? Now? You could say that, however, 0:45:12.000 --> 0:45:14.840 spot Thick was kind of that, you know, that's not 0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:17.640 a bad that's not a bad comparison, and we we 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:21.040 do know that right now, there's there's this very um 0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:26.400 sensitive is a good word, A sensitive and ongoing uh 0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:31.400 elbow knocking between nations in space. Um. One thing that 0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:34.680 working on this episode made me think about was the 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:37.760 incident in two thousand seven where the Chinese government shot 0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:41.680 a satellite down from space and it was it was 0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:45.120 pitched to the public as like whom it was bad 0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.840 and we wanted to make sure that nothing terrible happened 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:50.400 to it. So we took care of it. But it 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:54.320 was also there was a psychological aspect between the countries, 0:45:54.600 --> 0:45:57.920 right too. Here's what we can do. Look at our capability. 0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:01.040 We can bring down a satellite from the surface, like 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:03.600 we can launch an attack from the surface of the 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:06.360 Earth and bring down a satellite. Also, the rest of 0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:10.120 the world said, guys, don't don't clutter up space more 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:13.080 than it already, and you are literally making it more 0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:16.360 dangerous for everything else that's out in low earth orbit. 0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:18.719 I mean, maybe that's the reason there hasn't been any 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:22.520 extraterrestrial contact. Maybe we're the equivalent of people who have 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:25.520 refrigerators and stuff in their yard, or or or the 0:46:25.560 --> 0:46:28.880 equivalent of like, well, you know, I really want to 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:32.400 check out that beautiful waterfall, but there's all this abandoned 0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:35.840 barbed wire and broken glass here. I'm kind of scared 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:37.239 that if I try and walk through there, I'm going 0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:39.799 to cut myself up. Like that's that's because, I mean, 0:46:40.040 --> 0:46:43.320 space debris is a serious problem, not just for manned missions, 0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:46.959 but unmanned spacecraft as well. Like, you know, we could 0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:50.520 have communications satellites that would get taken down if they 0:46:50.600 --> 0:46:54.040 encountered space debris. We're talking about things that could be 0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:58.399 really tiny, I mean just like a couple of centimeters 0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:02.359 per side, but traveling at those amazing speeds, they could 0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:05.040 do massive amounts of damage if they collide with something. Now, 0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:09.319 on the positive side, space is really big right on 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:12.839 the on the the less positive side, First of all, 0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:15.680 there all all of these things are largely in the 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:20.399 same general orbit, you know, lower thorbit. Secondly, the more 0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:24.240 debris you have, the more the greater the odds increase 0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:30.360 of some sort of unintended collision. So making more garbage 0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:34.120 up there is not great. And then there's also a 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:36.959 quote that you found from the London Times. Ah yes, 0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:40.839 uh a, well back, an unnamed Air Force official love 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:44.880 that guy or a woman or that person, Yes, a 0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:49.200 recurring character. An unnamed Air Force official did note that 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.920 the ultimate goal of the X thirt seven B is 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:57.680 to aid terrestrial war fighters, which is still pretty vague. 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:00.799 It's super vague, but it does can m that there 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:03.759 is a military aspect by the Air Force. Who knew? 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:07.480 Yeah right, I think again, you know, we see people 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:11.760 chasing explanations or speculation about what this is. But there's 0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:16.120 clearly something about UM an informational edge that I think 0:48:16.160 --> 0:48:19.240 he's in there. And you know, to be fair that 0:48:19.239 --> 0:48:23.440 that phrasing, it could mean anything, right, It could It 0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:27.360 could mean reconnaissance. It could mean support in the sense 0:48:27.560 --> 0:48:32.920 of uh sending up a new satellite, small satellite, I guess, 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.000 or or some other kind of payload. Or it could 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:38.960 mean some kind of weaponization. I mean, it's so vaguely 0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:41.880 defined that it could mean any of those things. So again, 0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:44.920 and more often than not, it fuels the speculation as 0:48:44.920 --> 0:48:48.680 opposed to oh now I understand exactly. Yeah, it's there's 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.000 there's something a little platitude in this about it. But 0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:54.799 but this brings us to a bigger issue, which you 0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:59.560 and I have been I'm fascinated by, Yeah, the concept 0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:05.200 of oponization of space, like putting weapons into space for 0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:10.080 the purposes of warfare. So we're talking like everything from 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:14.359 those missile defense systems to something that's more of an 0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:19.080 attack based form of warfare, something like a system that 0:49:19.080 --> 0:49:24.040 could either launch missiles or other types of weaponry from 0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:30.560 space or support some other coordinated warfare efforts. UH. And 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:34.600 obviously this is one of those things that is a 0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:38.520 very delicate subject. Particularly when you look at the Earth 0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:43.520 and you say, how many nations are actually space faring nations? Right, 0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:46.719 not as many as you think there there. Um, there 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:49.960 are some big strides being made that will change the game, 0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:54.120 but right now the a lot of other nations are 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:57.200 still catching up to what the US and Russia did 0:49:57.400 --> 0:49:59.440 in the eighties. Yeah, so you've got things like you've 0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:03.720 got coalitions like the European Space Agency, and you've got 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:07.960 countries like India or China or Japan that all have 0:50:08.120 --> 0:50:11.279 to some extent worked on this sort of stuff, some 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.359 of them using the resources of other nations in order 0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:17.520 to actually launch things. But it is one of those 0:50:17.520 --> 0:50:21.040 deals where you know you have the the potential to 0:50:21.160 --> 0:50:25.480 affect a huge number of people, some of whom are 0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:28.439 living in nations that have absolutely no capability of going 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:32.040 into space at the moment. So it ends up raising 0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:35.800 some concerns, and in fact, the space race itself raised 0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:39.440 a lot of concerns. You get to a point where, uh, 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:42.960 the then Soviet Union can launch a satellite into space. 0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:46.160 In this case, spot Nick Sputnik could not do much. 0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:50.160 It essentially beat essentially. All it really did was send 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:56.440 a message that said I'm still here until until it stopped. UM. 0:50:56.480 --> 0:50:58.960 But that was enough to terrify people in the United 0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:03.040 States because the other implication was that if the Soviet 0:51:03.120 --> 0:51:05.800 Union could send a rocket all the way out into space, 0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:08.120 it could also send a rocket all the way over 0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:12.600 to the United States. So it raised a lot of 0:51:12.600 --> 0:51:17.360 of concerns, not just about intercontinental ballistic missiles, but also 0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:22.440 are we one day going to have war breakout where 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:25.920 the weapons are in space? Because that is terrifying, right, 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:29.560 just a nuclear weapon dropping from near Earth orbit. Yeah. 0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:33.960 So in nineteen sixty seven, several countries came together and 0:51:34.000 --> 0:51:36.719 there was an open signing in nineteen sixty seven that 0:51:37.640 --> 0:51:40.880 took place in UM the Soviet Union and the United 0:51:40.920 --> 0:51:43.799 Kingdom and the United States for a treaty that is 0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:47.920 called here's the full name, the Treaty on Principles Governing 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:51.279 the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:57.400 Outer Space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies. I 0:51:57.400 --> 0:51:59.120 guess they didn't have a lot of time to work 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:01.880 on the title busy working on the actual agreement. It 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:05.680 wasn't so zippy with the title. It is informally referred 0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:08.239 to as the Outer Space Treaty, which, oh that makes 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.560 a lot more sanchiesier. So set up a lot of 0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:16.280 ground rules about about space because obviously at that point 0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:20.120 only really two nations were in the space game, but 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:24.720 they were two nations that were philosophically opposed to one another. 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:27.960 They were in the middle of a Cold war. Uh, 0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:31.080 And so you have all these other countries saying, you 0:52:31.080 --> 0:52:33.680 guys are getting like, first of all, you're really angry 0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:37.239 at each other. Secondly, you've both amassed a huge number 0:52:37.239 --> 0:52:40.120 of weapons. Third you've demonstrated that you are very much 0:52:40.120 --> 0:52:43.279 interested in going the outer space, and we would like 0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:46.200 to have to have us all kind of calm down 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:50.960 some ground rules and just chill out a little bit. 0:52:51.000 --> 0:52:54.200 But these are these are actually some fantastic rules, to 0:52:54.239 --> 0:52:57.040 the point where I wish more nations were on board 0:52:57.080 --> 0:52:59.239 with this plan. But what are what like are some 0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:03.240 all right? So space exploration as discoveries belong to all humans, 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:06.200 not just one nation, So you can't hoard all the info. 0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:10.200 So yeah, it's it's saying, look, there's the potential for 0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:13.760 what we learn out in space to benefit all of humanity. 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:17.920 We cannot silo that information so that one nation benefits 0:53:18.040 --> 0:53:20.960 at the expense of everybody. Else. So there was an 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:24.000 agreement that anything we learned that can become a benefit 0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:27.920 needs to be shared with everyone. Anyone who with a 0:53:27.920 --> 0:53:31.600 technological capacity can explore space, so it can't be off 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:34.680 limits to anyone. So, in other words, if the United 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:38.680 States has to developed this spacefaring technology and then some 0:53:38.800 --> 0:53:42.160 other country that the US is maybe not so friendly with, does, 0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:45.200 the US can't move to block them, right like Iran. 0:53:45.400 --> 0:53:48.960 You will hear stuff about the Iranian Space Agency, and 0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:52.200 you know, for some people it might seem strange that, uh, 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:55.600 it might seem strange that there's such controversy over nuclear 0:53:55.640 --> 0:54:01.200 weapons but relatively little controversy over um, the space exploration. 0:54:01.520 --> 0:54:06.160 Because yeah, exactly saying that, you know, philosophical disagreements or 0:54:06.239 --> 0:54:12.399 ideological disagreements or or political arguments aside. All nations, all 0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:15.960 states have a right to space exploration if they have 0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:20.360 the technological capacity to do so. Uh, you can't claim 0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:23.799 space property, Yeah, you can't. Can't go out there and 0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:26.200 say this part of space belongs to the US, or 0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:30.400 to the Russia or to whatever. Uh. So you can't 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:32.200 land on the moon plan a flag and say that 0:54:32.239 --> 0:54:35.240 it belongs to you. Now, So Eddie Izard's whole routine 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:37.880 about how you can conquer just as long as you 0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:40.879 have a flag does not apply to outer space. He's 0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:43.560 going to be so upset. Nobody telling you guys, right well, 0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:46.160 this also means that the US can't lay claim to 0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:50.759 the Moon because we have an American flag up there. Um, 0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:54.280 obviously the American flag is really in this sound studio someplace, 0:54:55.280 --> 0:54:58.640 the whole hoax deal. And because somebody already sold off 0:54:58.719 --> 0:55:00.239 most of the property on the Moon, and I have 0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:04.160 a couple of acres myself. Yeah, you love those. I mean, 0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:06.879 I'm sure those businesses are all on the open up right. Yeah. 0:55:07.080 --> 0:55:10.359 Whenever you hear something like a a company offering up 0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:14.920 space real estate, this treaty says that's not legal, at 0:55:15.000 --> 0:55:17.600 least not for states to do so. Governments can't do it. 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:20.360 If you say, well, I'm a private individual, therefore I 0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:22.600 can claim it, I'm sure you're going to have that. 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:25.000 That's gonna be very difficult to defend that. Not that 0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:27.040 not that there's any reason to defend it right now, 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:31.759 It's totally not practical, but anyway. Um, Also, no one 0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:34.759 is allowed to create weapons of mass destruction and place 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:39.840 them in space. This is a big one. Yeah, Now 0:55:40.440 --> 0:55:43.319 it's talking about weapons of mass destruction, So it's a 0:55:43.440 --> 0:55:47.120 very specific definition of the type of weaponry. Right, We're 0:55:47.120 --> 0:55:52.080 talking about a weapon capable of killing or otherwise injuring 0:55:52.520 --> 0:55:55.200 a huge number of folks at one go. Yeah, a 0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:59.799 catastrophic effect every time the weapons used. So any weapon 0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:03.960 that does not fall under that category is not you know, 0:56:04.040 --> 0:56:08.799 it's not prohibited under these terms. Yeah, and that has 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:14.200 led to discussions of other treaties that would end up 0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:15.920 filling in some of those gaps. But we'll get to 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:19.319 that in a second. Other rules include the fact that 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:22.960 celestial bodies can only be used for peaceful purposes. That 0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:25.400 one's so interesting to me because you know what what 0:56:25.560 --> 0:56:30.279 that also encompasses. Right. That means not weaponizing an asteroid, 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:34.040 for instance, or altering the path of something else in 0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:37.479 space so that it collides with the planet. You can't 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:40.360 use an asteroid as a projectile weapon and aim it 0:56:40.600 --> 0:56:45.759 on at like, you know, Russia, which you wouldn't want 0:56:45.760 --> 0:56:48.719 to do anyway, I mean, right, like you don't want 0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:53.360 to cause a planet wide extinction level event, which is 0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:56.319 you know, in the cards something like that. I mean, 0:56:56.360 --> 0:56:58.759 this is the kind of stuff that has killed off 0:56:59.040 --> 0:57:05.440 entire you know, populations, entire you know, species, collections of species, 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:09.879 your past. So yeah, you cannot use celestial bodies for 0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:14.280 any you know, uh, for any non peaceful purpose. Governments 0:57:14.280 --> 0:57:17.400 are responsible for space activities, even if the activities themselves 0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:20.280 are carried out by private organizations, which is very forward 0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:26.440 thinking since only state run operations had existed at that point. So, 0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:31.240 in other words, if space X does something really dumb 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:34.840 mountain space, the United States government would be held accountable 0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:38.520 for that because that's uh the presumably if they launched 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:41.120 from the United States. I mean, it is a US 0:57:41.160 --> 0:57:44.640 centered organization, So even though it's not run by the government, 0:57:45.320 --> 0:57:48.840 the US would still be held responsible because they would 0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:51.760 essentially be allowing for it to happen. Be aware of 0:57:51.800 --> 0:57:55.720 space billionaires, because there you could get a lot of 0:57:55.720 --> 0:57:58.320 trouble with your home country. Yeah, yeah, your home country 0:57:58.320 --> 0:58:02.400 would get into a lot of trouble and stuff trickles 0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:06.720 down right, we should say host country. That's what that's true. 0:58:06.760 --> 0:58:08.760 That's true. That's probably the best way of putting it. 0:58:09.080 --> 0:58:12.920 Uh So, if your stuff, meaning a state's property, falls 0:58:12.960 --> 0:58:15.880 out of the sky and damages someone, you are at fault. 0:58:15.920 --> 0:58:18.360 So in other words, if the US puts up a 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:23.520 satellite and the satellites orbit decays, and the decaying orbit 0:58:23.560 --> 0:58:27.520 means the satellite starts to fall into the Earth and 0:58:27.800 --> 0:58:30.920 does not burn up entirely and ends up colliding with 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:36.400 like a public library over in Eastern Europe, US chemicals 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:39.520 that US. The US is at fault there. It's because 0:58:39.520 --> 0:58:40.600 they were the ones who put it up there and 0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:43.600 they did not find a way to um to bring 0:58:43.640 --> 0:58:48.400 it down safely. M Usually things like that are done 0:58:48.400 --> 0:58:52.440 in a controlled way, where it's purposefully brought down so 0:58:52.520 --> 0:58:56.080 that anything that would make it through the atmosphere. The 0:58:56.240 --> 0:58:59.120 rare instance that that actually does happen with land in 0:58:59.160 --> 0:59:02.680 an ocean for example. UM. But you know, it's always 0:59:02.680 --> 0:59:05.400 possible that you could have a situation where you know, 0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:09.960 the the spacecraft is not responding to your commands to 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:12.880 have it, you know, de orbit in a in a 0:59:12.920 --> 0:59:16.760 controlled way. And that's kind of what this is covering. Also, 0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:21.120 states are not supposed to contaminate celestial bodies. No littering 0:59:21.160 --> 0:59:25.240 I'm talking to but look, take on any photographs, leave 0:59:25.280 --> 0:59:30.080 only footprints, maybe a flag and maybe a couple of 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:32.160 lunar landers. I mean, come on, the moon is pretty big. 0:59:32.320 --> 0:59:36.320 That's not really littering, right. Uh So, over time, obviously 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:39.000 this has been kind of updated. But there have been 0:59:39.040 --> 0:59:43.080 other proposed treaties that would end up beefing up these 0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:47.240 rules and defining them further, but they have had limited 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:50.400 success in adoption, and there are a lot of reasons 0:59:50.400 --> 0:59:53.760 for that. So a proposed treaty inten would have placed 0:59:53.760 --> 0:59:56.600 more limitations on weapons and space, at least in theory. 0:59:57.600 --> 1:00:00.480 The draft treaty is formally called the Treaty on the 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:04.080 Prevention of the Placement of Weapons in Outer Space and 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:08.880 of the Threat or Use of Force against Outer Space Objects. 1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:12.080 So it's supposed to limit states abilities to do things 1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:16.800 like launch missile attacks on satellites or or put weaponization 1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:22.440 into space, even if it's not mass destruction. And there 1:00:22.440 --> 1:00:25.800 were two countries that submitted this treaty to the United Nations, 1:00:26.400 --> 1:00:30.200 and it was Russia and China. Now the United States 1:00:30.360 --> 1:00:34.040 opposed the treaty and said it would not sign such 1:00:34.160 --> 1:00:36.920 a treaty. And you might think, well, why would the 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:39.720 US say no, I'm not going to sign a treaty 1:00:39.760 --> 1:00:41.880 that doesn't allow us to weabinize space. Does that mean 1:00:41.880 --> 1:00:44.560 the US is very much interested in sending up tons 1:00:44.600 --> 1:00:47.640 of weapons into space. Yeah, that that part it is 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:49.760 hard to answer, but I can tell you what the 1:00:49.800 --> 1:00:55.040 official answers have been, which is that China and this 1:00:55.120 --> 1:00:59.520 is there. I am paraphrasing, but this is their perspective, 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:05.600 not necessarily my own. China and Russia don't playfair. That's 1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:08.320 that's what they're That's what essentially the message has been 1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:11.600 is that that this treaty is something that if the 1:01:11.720 --> 1:01:15.480 United States signed it, because the US are the good guys. 1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:18.680 Remember this is a narrative. They're saying that the US 1:01:18.720 --> 1:01:22.320 are the good guys. The US would abide by this treaty. 1:01:22.600 --> 1:01:26.960 But Russia and China they're Tricksye, my precious, and they 1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:29.520 would totally ignore the treaty and say, look at the 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:32.800 dumb Americans. They're totally abiding by these rules we've set, 1:01:32.840 --> 1:01:35.080 whereas we're actually going to send up as many weapons 1:01:35.080 --> 1:01:38.160 into space as we can, and we're going to end 1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:40.560 up getting dominance. It will be an arms race in 1:01:40.720 --> 1:01:43.360 space that we will have a leg up on because 1:01:43.480 --> 1:01:47.360 we're not paying attention to the treaty. It's difficult because 1:01:47.360 --> 1:01:50.880 they're It goes back to this idea of verification, right 1:01:51.680 --> 1:01:56.840 and that is such a tricky, nearly impossible thing when 1:01:56.880 --> 1:01:59.520 you're talking about state secrets like this, How do you 1:01:59.600 --> 1:02:02.160 how do you verify that no one is up to 1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:05.360 anything shady? Yeah, that was in fact that that was 1:02:05.440 --> 1:02:09.560 actually the way the us UH the representatives worded it. 1:02:09.600 --> 1:02:14.080 They said, well, and other people have essentially said more 1:02:14.160 --> 1:02:16.360 or less what I said, just in nicer language, but 1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:20.560 they the specific line was that this treaty as it 1:02:20.600 --> 1:02:24.600 stands is impossible to verify, meaning that you cannot there's 1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:31.200 no there's no regulatory agency that could monitor states and 1:02:31.240 --> 1:02:33.640 make certain that no one was actually doing what the 1:02:33.640 --> 1:02:35.280 treaty said. So, in other words, they said that you 1:02:35.280 --> 1:02:38.400 can't enforce the treaty because you cannot be certain that 1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:41.160 people are abiding by it, and so it ends up 1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:43.880 being a meaningless treaty. In the first place. It doesn't 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:48.240 work because there's no means to monitor and therefore enforce it. 1:02:48.480 --> 1:02:50.240 So if there's no way to do that, then the 1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:53.640 treaty might as well not even exist, because what you 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:56.439 are doing is creating a pressure on countries that want 1:02:56.480 --> 1:02:59.840 to follow it in good faith, while other countries may 1:03:00.360 --> 1:03:04.160 not share that and they'll just they'll violate it. Anyway, 1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:06.440 and there's there's no way to tell that they're violating 1:03:06.480 --> 1:03:08.320 it because again there's no way to monitor it and 1:03:08.440 --> 1:03:12.320 verify it. So um, I I totally get their point, Like, 1:03:12.400 --> 1:03:16.439 I don't disagree with that, And some might say, well, 1:03:16.480 --> 1:03:19.640 there's also ulterior motives that could be in play. Let's 1:03:19.640 --> 1:03:22.200 say that the United States wants to be able to 1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:24.680 have the option to send weapons, even if they're not 1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:28.240 weapons of mass destruction up into space. Sending signing such 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:30.320 a treaty would say that they would not do that, 1:03:30.400 --> 1:03:33.840 and maybe they want the option to remain open. It 1:03:33.960 --> 1:03:37.400 may be that they're even specific plans in place that 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:40.480 we're not privy to and obviously would not be privy to. 1:03:41.120 --> 1:03:43.400 I'd like to think that that's not the case, but 1:03:43.520 --> 1:03:45.480 at the same time, I'd also like to think the 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.560 government's not looking at all my emails, and that unfortunately 1:03:48.600 --> 1:03:52.080 has proven to be false. So yeah, it's always when 1:03:52.160 --> 1:03:55.440 an intern at the n s A response to your emails, Yeah, 1:03:55.960 --> 1:03:59.360 I yeah, like you send any like I'm emailing you 1:03:59.720 --> 1:04:01.640 and the n s A in terms like oh, Ben's 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:04.439 that lunch right now, He's not going to respond until 1:04:04.440 --> 1:04:08.200 like four Gary, I appreciate it. But school that stops 1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:10.480 kind of creepy, like say hi to your dad for me. 1:04:10.680 --> 1:04:14.280 Uh yeah, that that would be weird. But also just 1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:18.480 just anning here. Also, we know that the ability to 1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:23.920 interfere with another state satellites, it could be so crucial 1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:28.000 and so pivotal that it's going to happen. Somebody's going 1:04:28.040 --> 1:04:31.280 to try to do that. As as you've said before, 1:04:31.320 --> 1:04:35.760 you said in our notes here, this space war stuff 1:04:36.120 --> 1:04:39.280 is not some distant sci fi thing. It's real, and 1:04:39.320 --> 1:04:41.120 it's kind of we're kind of in the middle of 1:04:41.120 --> 1:04:44.280 the story. Yeah, the idea that you know, China bringing 1:04:44.320 --> 1:04:48.160 down a satellite by firing a missile at it purely 1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:50.800 because that was the most effective means of taking down 1:04:50.800 --> 1:04:55.440 the satellite does not ring true, right. It definitely seems 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:58.320 more like a demonstration of here's what we are capable 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:03.040 of doing. So if we ever enter an actual like conflict, 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:06.200 whether it's an official war or not, we have the 1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:10.960 capability of bringing down your satellites. And so yeah, I 1:05:10.960 --> 1:05:14.959 mean we're talking about satellites that could provide communication, GPS data, 1:05:15.160 --> 1:05:18.120 all this kind of stuff. I mean, obviously, the further 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:20.400 out the satellite is, the harder it is for you 1:05:20.480 --> 1:05:22.560 to create a system that's going to be capable of 1:05:22.560 --> 1:05:24.400 bringing it down. You're gonna be able to hit the 1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:26.240 ones that are more in lower orbit than the ones 1:05:26.280 --> 1:05:28.920 that are further out. I mean, you're talking about a 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:32.120 target that's further out is and it's moving in an 1:05:32.160 --> 1:05:35.440 incredible speed like that. I'm not saying it's impossible. It 1:05:35.520 --> 1:05:39.360 certainly isn't. It's just a lot harder. But at any rate, 1:05:40.120 --> 1:05:44.800 the capability has been demonstrated. And uh, that is a 1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:48.680 very vulnerable and valid target if you are, if you're 1:05:48.960 --> 1:05:52.760 very serious about warfare, right, Yeah, absolutely, And this this 1:05:52.840 --> 1:05:58.000 brings us all back around to the subject we looked 1:05:58.040 --> 1:06:00.680 at today, which is the X third seven. And I 1:06:00.720 --> 1:06:03.120 gotta tell you, man, I've been holding onto this reference 1:06:03.280 --> 1:06:05.240 to the whole show, so okay, I've just gotta let 1:06:05.240 --> 1:06:09.480 it go. There's something about an unmanned vehicle in the 1:06:09.600 --> 1:06:12.360 darkness of space, just sort of orbiting in the silence 1:06:12.440 --> 1:06:15.240 that is so very event horizon to me. What's going 1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:17.600 to come back the next time? At lands? John right, 1:06:18.200 --> 1:06:20.640 a little hitchhiker. Yeah, I found your thing, man. I 1:06:20.640 --> 1:06:22.600 don't know what happened to the drive. He was gone 1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:26.440 when I got on I promise you. Yeah. Thanks, I've 1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:29.080 been working on that character for a while. Um. Yeah. 1:06:29.200 --> 1:06:31.920 And it's interesting because you know, this is not necessarily 1:06:32.720 --> 1:06:36.720 the end of the space plane discussion. There's been some 1:06:36.800 --> 1:06:40.080 other talks about what the space plane might do, even 1:06:40.480 --> 1:06:44.280 in in light of the counter argument saying that perhaps 1:06:44.280 --> 1:06:48.000 it's not the most um efficient or useful means of 1:06:48.000 --> 1:06:50.880 getting things into space. The Air Force itself had announced 1:06:50.880 --> 1:06:53.360 back in twenty eleven that it would develop a new 1:06:53.480 --> 1:06:56.800 spacecraft based on the same design that would be even 1:06:56.920 --> 1:07:00.480 larger than the X leary seven be Remember the thirty 1:07:00.520 --> 1:07:04.880 seven is larger than the X forty. This one would 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:08.360 be bigger than the X thirty seven, and the numbers 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:13.320 ranged between like a hundred sixty and so bigger by 1:07:13.360 --> 1:07:15.320 almost a factor of two when you get to the 1:07:15.360 --> 1:07:19.000 higher ends. And uh, this one would potentially have a 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:23.880 pressurized compartment, which means that could carry stuff what lives. Yeah, 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:28.000 and and the it has been suggested, could carry a 1:07:28.480 --> 1:07:32.560 group of astronauts up to six into space. They don't 1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:35.160 have to pilot the thing because it could still have 1:07:35.200 --> 1:07:38.640 autonomous control, although they said that would also have manual control, 1:07:39.360 --> 1:07:43.720 so uh, astronauts could presumably I assume astronauts. Maybe they 1:07:43.720 --> 1:07:47.120 mean manual control from the ground, which is also a possibility, 1:07:47.200 --> 1:07:50.240 but that, um, the astronauts would not necessarily have to 1:07:50.240 --> 1:07:56.280 pilot this thing. It would be the X thirty seven CUM. Yeah, 1:07:56.400 --> 1:08:00.760 no idea if that project is still have opening or not, 1:08:00.880 --> 1:08:04.200 like it was announced in tleven. But again, when you're 1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:07.400 talking about secret space planes, right, you don't get a 1:08:07.440 --> 1:08:10.760 lot of updates until they launch one and then it 1:08:10.920 --> 1:08:12.960 lands and then people are like, oh, so, I guess 1:08:12.960 --> 1:08:16.400 that's still a thing. So we don't know. I mean 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:20.479 we I don't know people know. It's not me. Yeah, 1:08:20.520 --> 1:08:23.680 I'm not I'm not privy to such information. But it 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:25.840 could be that we see a development and who knows, 1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:30.760 maybe there will be demonstrable uses for space plane technology 1:08:31.160 --> 1:08:36.679 that uh end up being uh, you know, the best option, 1:08:36.920 --> 1:08:39.880 and that the objection saying that, hey, we have other 1:08:39.880 --> 1:08:42.439 means of getting stuff into space that end up being 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:45.960 less complicated than this methodology. Maybe that will end up 1:08:45.960 --> 1:08:48.680 being moot. It's kind of hard to say right now 1:08:48.720 --> 1:08:52.680 because obviously, if you were to send astronauts up, you're 1:08:52.720 --> 1:08:58.559 probably not doing one of those crazy It would be 1:08:58.680 --> 1:09:01.280 very very tough on the on the human body. And 1:09:01.280 --> 1:09:09.000 I can't imagine you could carry enough oxygen, water, food, like, yeah, 1:09:09.040 --> 1:09:11.320 all the stuff, all the stuff that's necessary to keep 1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:14.920 people alive. I don't think you could carry all of 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:18.479 that aboard a space plane that's designed to be up 1:09:18.479 --> 1:09:20.559 there for six hundred days. That's just not going to happen. 1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:23.760 So even if you were to say, well, we want 1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:26.280 to find out what happens fast, not when they're in 1:09:26.320 --> 1:09:30.439 a spacecraft for two years, and whether or not they 1:09:30.479 --> 1:09:33.280 come back as the Fantastic Four, I mean, you know, 1:09:33.479 --> 1:09:36.920 it's worth a shot. But but but one thing we 1:09:36.960 --> 1:09:39.639 have learned about space radiation is it does not work 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:41.960 the way that Marvel Comics may have fled you as 1:09:42.000 --> 1:09:44.760 a child. No, it can. It can really mess you 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.719 up big time. And uh, you know you're talking about 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:49.880 particles that move with a ton of energy that have 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:55.559 the capacity to do really like cellular level damage that 1:09:55.640 --> 1:10:00.000 can end up causing huge issues. Yeah, like irreparable damage. 1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:03.519 But let's let's go big because despite these problems, right, 1:10:03.560 --> 1:10:06.240 despite the secrecy, and I know it's a welly and 1:10:06.280 --> 1:10:10.240 spooky and stuff, I'm so excited because this gets us 1:10:10.760 --> 1:10:14.599 one one tiny step closer to one of the one 1:10:14.600 --> 1:10:17.160 of the big dreams I've had, uh since we started 1:10:17.200 --> 1:10:20.280 working together, which is the podcast on the Moon. I mean, 1:10:20.520 --> 1:10:22.679 if they can just get us to the moon, Jonathan, 1:10:22.840 --> 1:10:24.720 we could do the rest might be uh, might be 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.439 a little quiet up there. I don't know how we're 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:29.600 going to talk into the microphones. The way of the 1:10:29.680 --> 1:10:32.599 set up, Well, we'll just go it's a sound studio, 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:34.719 come on, We'll just so just move the whole studio 1:10:34.800 --> 1:10:37.120 to them. That makes more sense. I was just thinking 1:10:37.120 --> 1:10:39.960 of the table on the mics, and also about how 1:10:40.000 --> 1:10:42.599 long the chords would have to be, and that anything 1:10:42.600 --> 1:10:46.280 we asked nol we'd have to wait. Yeah, there'll be 1:10:47.040 --> 1:10:51.800 a yeah, there'd be a noticeable delay. Um. But I'm 1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:53.800 still in favor of it personally because I think, uh, 1:10:53.880 --> 1:10:55.880 I think that could really position us in a way 1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:59.839 that other podcasts just haven't thought right to take advantage 1:10:59.840 --> 1:11:01.479 of that. I mean, it's kind of amazing to me 1:11:01.520 --> 1:11:07.840 that hasn't avenue honestly, don't. All right, So anyway, this 1:11:07.880 --> 1:11:09.479 has been a lot of fun to talk about the 1:11:09.960 --> 1:11:13.200 you know, even though obviously what we don't know as 1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:16.760 members of the general public far outweighs what we do know, 1:11:17.760 --> 1:11:19.439 but it's also fun just to kind of explore the 1:11:19.439 --> 1:11:24.000 psychology of not just like conspiracy theories in the sense 1:11:24.040 --> 1:11:26.360 of well, and since we don't have information, we have 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:29.439 to fill that vacuum, but also just the idea of 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:34.400 what what could be the motives for pursuing this. I mean, 1:11:34.400 --> 1:11:36.679 obviously we're talking about something that costs a huge amount 1:11:36.680 --> 1:11:40.120 of money. Maybe ultimately it's just a test of autonomous 1:11:40.160 --> 1:11:44.639 technology in a new, a new form, like a new 1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:48.840 a new a new environment, and that that ultimately could 1:11:48.880 --> 1:11:51.960 become really important, but in a totally different implementation, who knows. 1:11:52.400 --> 1:11:54.080 So it's been really interesting to talk. I want to 1:11:54.080 --> 1:11:56.960 thank you for bringing the topic up and joining me 1:11:57.000 --> 1:12:00.000 for this episode. Hey, thank you for having me. Next time. 1:12:00.000 --> 1:12:02.840 I'm not only will will I read the list, but 1:12:03.000 --> 1:12:05.880 I will understand how it is supposed to be. It's 1:12:06.000 --> 1:12:10.439 perfectly fine. Like I said, it's I didn't. I didn't 1:12:10.479 --> 1:12:12.040 realize that I had worded it in such a way 1:12:12.080 --> 1:12:15.040 saying don't pick anything on this list, but you totally didn't. 1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:17.680 I've probably just given it over. But yeah, thank you 1:12:18.120 --> 1:12:22.640 for this opportunity. I love talking about these space vehicles 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:26.080 and the weaponry and I'm going to go ahead, uh 1:12:26.240 --> 1:12:29.439 and tell everyone if you haven't heard about your other show, 1:12:29.560 --> 1:12:32.160 Forward Thinking, that's that's the one where you don't hear 1:12:32.200 --> 1:12:34.000 so much about the weapons here about how awesome the 1:12:34.040 --> 1:12:36.800 future is going to be, right right, And I think 1:12:36.840 --> 1:12:39.960 that if you like these kind of conversations that you 1:12:40.000 --> 1:12:43.479 will also really enjoy that podcast as well. Yeah, the 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:46.519 podcast is with Joe McCormick and Lauren Voge obam and 1:12:46.600 --> 1:12:51.040 together we explore topics about things that will be really 1:12:51.080 --> 1:12:53.120 important in the future, some of them in the short term, 1:12:53.200 --> 1:12:55.720 some of them in the far long term, and we 1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:57.360 have a lot of fun doing it. And of course 1:12:57.360 --> 1:12:59.920 there's the video series as well, which is is fantastic. 1:13:01.040 --> 1:13:03.320 Also you can check out the the dark and Shady 1:13:03.400 --> 1:13:06.280 side of our world over at Stuff they Don't want 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:08.880 you to Know than Ben and Matt Frederick do an 1:13:08.920 --> 1:13:12.240 amazing job on that show. Thank you. Occasionally I show 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:16.680 up as a as an unwinding accomplice, sometimes an unwilling 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:20.960 accomplice sometimes, which reminds me we we should talk about 1:13:21.000 --> 1:13:23.519 we should talk about the next team up when you 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:26.320 get a chance, But that is a story for another day. 1:13:26.360 --> 1:13:29.519 Everybody a surprised, Yeah, so thank you guys so much 1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:31.880 for listening. If you have any suggestions for future tech 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:36.679 stuff topics, UM, future guest hosts, or future interviews, anything 1:13:36.720 --> 1:13:38.760 like that, we just have a question or comment, you 1:13:38.760 --> 1:13:42.160 should send that to me. My email address is tech 1:13:42.240 --> 1:13:45.479 stuff at how stuffworks dot com. Or drop me a 1:13:45.479 --> 1:13:48.280 line on Facebook or Twitter or Tumbler. The handle it 1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:50.960 all three of those is text stuff H s W 1:13:51.560 --> 1:13:59.160 and I'll talk to you again really soon for more 1:13:59.160 --> 1:14:01.280 on this and that, sins of other topics. Is it 1:14:01.360 --> 1:14:11.439 how stuff works dot com, M