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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants. Hutte on giants

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Speaker 1: dot com, part of the Giants Podcast Network. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another edition of the Giant Subtle Podcast, Front Office edition,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by City College of New York Doing

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Speaker 1: Remarkable Things. Learn more at c c n Y dot

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Speaker 1: q NE dot e d U. I'm John Schmelck. Had

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Speaker 1: a chance to talk to the Giants Assistant director of

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Speaker 1: player Personnel Dennis Hickey when we were at the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about the Senior Bowl itself.

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Speaker 1: We also talked about his relationship to Giants General manager

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Speaker 1: Joe Shane, going back to his days when Dennis was

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Speaker 1: the general manager for the Dolphins and Joe worked for him.

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Speaker 1: We talked about a couple of specific positions, the wide

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Speaker 1: receiver in cornerback spots, not only watching the one on

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Speaker 1: ones at the Senior Bowl, but also what they really

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Speaker 1: think are the most important parts of that position, and

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Speaker 1: just um some general scott In questions in terms of

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Speaker 1: how you evaluate these guys and decide um what players

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Speaker 1: you want to make New York Football Giants. Was a

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Speaker 1: fun conversation. But first, if you're into the draft, folks,

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Speaker 1: make sure you go check out Draft Season our draft podcast,

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Speaker 1: Tony Aline and I breaked everything down in terms of

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Speaker 1: the draft, top players, mock drafts, rankings, lists, the combine,

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Speaker 1: you name it. We're at the Senior Bowl. We've good

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Speaker 1: episodes on that. Make sure you go check it out

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Speaker 1: as on the Giants Mobleblap, jihnants dot com, Slash podcast,

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Speaker 1: and of course subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms. Just

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Speaker 1: search for Draft season. All right, and now we're joined

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Speaker 1: by the Giants Assistant director of Player Personnel, Dennis Hicky. Dennis,

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Speaker 1: how are you, man? It's good to see IM doing great.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful day here and mobile and watching some football.

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Speaker 1: It's great. It's a great time. Absolutely. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: start here, Assistant director of player Personnel. What's your job?

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Speaker 1: A little bit of everything? You know. Over my career,

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Speaker 1: I've pretty much filled out the personnel BINGO card, just

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Speaker 1: done about everything. But it's a it's a great opportunity

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Speaker 1: for all of our staff, personnel staff. We're you know,

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Speaker 1: we believe we're gonna build through the draft, so this

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Speaker 1: is a great exposure. Last year, there's about a hundred

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Speaker 1: and six guys that were drafted out of this game,

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Speaker 1: so you do the math. That's close of the draft.

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Speaker 1: So it's a great time and our coaches are here,

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Speaker 1: our scouts are here to just to get more insight

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Speaker 1: into these players and kind of put the pieces of

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Speaker 1: the puzzle together. You mentioned your general manager, you're a

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Speaker 1: director of college scouting, director of player person you've done

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Speaker 1: at all. When you were the general manager in Miami,

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Speaker 1: you would Joe Shane working underneath you. So what was

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Speaker 1: your experience when you were Joe's boss in Miami? Had

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Speaker 1: that he was great? Um, and he knew back then

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Speaker 1: that he was he was going to be destined to,

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Speaker 1: you know, keep rising. You know, smart, talented, extremely hard working,

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Speaker 1: you know, great with people, and uh, you just knew

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Speaker 1: he was a rising star and he did a great

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Speaker 1: job for us, and um, you know, he just kept

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Speaker 1: It's it's been great watching him throughout and getting opportunities

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Speaker 1: and having success and then then following him here. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was a big part of coming here. Um, just

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Speaker 1: excited to work with him and just amazing job he's

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Speaker 1: done his first year and just it's fun to watch,

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Speaker 1: you know, his relationship with coach day Ball and just

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Speaker 1: the alignment we have at the top which it's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's great for the whole organization, and I think

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Speaker 1: you see that in the results. What were some of

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Speaker 1: the things about Joe when he worked for you that

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Speaker 1: you identified that you did think he was heading for

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Speaker 1: bigger and better things. Well, really talented evaluator, and I've

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Speaker 1: been on the road when and before you know, he

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Speaker 1: came up through the ranks. You know, he's a combined

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Speaker 1: scout and then just kept and you always saw Joe

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Speaker 1: at schools. You knew he's working hard, he's working sources,

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Speaker 1: and he had he had a keen eye for evaluations.

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Speaker 1: Then I got in the building and and saw the capacity,

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Speaker 1: the workload. It was, you know, really impressive. I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: this guy is really out there grinding and working and

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Speaker 1: with the quality as well. So you knew he knew

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Speaker 1: he was going to do great things, and I just

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Speaker 1: excited to be on on the same team with him again.

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Speaker 1: Now you were the general manager, had obviously, so you

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Speaker 1: know it's not just watching, taping guys and evaluating players.

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Speaker 1: A lot more that goes into it, right, So what

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Speaker 1: advice we're able to give Joe about stepping into the

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Speaker 1: job and all the stuff that goes along with it.

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Speaker 1: That's just not being a scout. Yeah, just stick the

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Speaker 1: fundamentals of who you are, you know, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's still all about people and those relationships. And you

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Speaker 1: knew that the talent the evaluation would come, but just uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just keep working, just surround yourself with with

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Speaker 1: people that you trust. Let's talk about the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 1: What as a town evaluator can you get out of

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Speaker 1: an event like this being here for three or four days. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's great because because you're in it's a controlled environment

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Speaker 1: and you get to see there's a lot of small

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Speaker 1: school players. There's players that are playing different positions, Guys

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Speaker 1: that you haven't seen returning punts, they're fielding punts. And

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Speaker 1: it's in an NFL environment. So you get so much

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Speaker 1: out there, good versus good, that competitive nature and just

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Speaker 1: see how guys rise to the level of the competition.

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Speaker 1: Um and plus you for our coaches, this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be this is they're entering the evaluation phase and so

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Speaker 1: for them to get their eyes and get to meet

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Speaker 1: and interview these guys. You get to see the makeup

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Speaker 1: and how what makes these guys take their story, all

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Speaker 1: the context that leads into a player, which is so

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Speaker 1: important for us. How much, in what ways can your

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Speaker 1: opinion of a player change based on what happens here,

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Speaker 1: Because obviously you guys, I'm not going about the final report,

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Speaker 1: but you've seen them play all their games already. You

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Speaker 1: kind of have a pretty good scouting report all these guys.

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Speaker 1: So how can in what ways can this event change

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Speaker 1: your opinion on guys? Well, you just see different elements

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Speaker 1: of them. Again, there's some utilization. Maybe a guy play tackle,

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Speaker 1: now you see him a guard or center, or maybe

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Speaker 1: a guy played on the outside corner you see him

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Speaker 1: playing nickel or different positions that that's a key element.

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Speaker 1: And then just seeing them against quality competition one on

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Speaker 1: ones again, some of those sometimes you don't see that element.

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Speaker 1: It's about maximizing the exposure for these guys, and it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a great and valuable resource for us. And

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Speaker 1: we'll get to the one on ones at the second,

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Speaker 1: I promise. How about having the whole group here together.

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Speaker 1: What's the value of having your whole scouting staff here

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Speaker 1: as a group meeting and just interacting with each other,

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Speaker 1: given most of the year they're spread all across the country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. We see ourselves as a collective.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of different experiences. You know,

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Speaker 1: guys come from different teams, in different roles, all those things,

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Speaker 1: and we just want to put our heads together. Joe's

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Speaker 1: very Joan Dave's are very include. They believe in diversity

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Speaker 1: of flought, and so get all the educated opinions together

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Speaker 1: and we're working through and trying to get it right

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Speaker 1: for the New York Giants when it comes drafted and

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Speaker 1: and our again, our guys, you know, from Marcus Cooper

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Speaker 1: to Scott Hamill who he added, you know, Mike Derees,

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Speaker 1: who's over the top, Jeremy Bright, who's been who's been

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Speaker 1: here for a long time. Dj boyster Um, we got

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Speaker 1: Hannah Burnett on the Northwest, Brendan Prophets, Patrick Hanscom, you know,

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Speaker 1: Marquis Pendleton, Blaze Belt. You know, there's so many of

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Speaker 1: these guys are here, and they do such a great

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Speaker 1: job there on the road, you know, working behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes and doing all the detailed work that's gonna really

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Speaker 1: equip us to make good decisions as it goes. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what's going on the field, and you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the one on ones wide receivers and defensive backs.

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Speaker 1: It's the glitz position. That's what everybody's watching. We're trying

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Speaker 1: to watch wide receivers. What kind of skills or traits

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Speaker 1: are you looking for when you're watching those wide receivers

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Speaker 1: defensive back one on ones. Yeah, you hit on the

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Speaker 1: key word as traits, right, and you want to see

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Speaker 1: number one there ease of movement, their athleticism, their quickness,

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Speaker 1: the speed, you know how that relates. You know what

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Speaker 1: type of route craft, route detail, do they have, what foundation?

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Speaker 1: And again some guys are further long because they come

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Speaker 1: from different programs other guys, But you also want to

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Speaker 1: see how they improve from day one in a new environment,

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Speaker 1: you know, day three and then the game. You want

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Speaker 1: to just see their progression because you want to see

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Speaker 1: guys on our trajectory. In that way, it's one position,

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Speaker 1: but they all come in different size of shapes and skills, right,

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Speaker 1: So what does your group favor or do you like

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Speaker 1: the big catch radius, the bigger guy? Do you want

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Speaker 1: the separators? What are some of the things that are

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Speaker 1: the most important to you guys as you judge these

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Speaker 1: guys that play the same position but are very different

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Speaker 1: and how they go about it. Yeah, what great thing

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Speaker 1: about our offensive staff is they're gonna utilize the skill

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Speaker 1: set you know that they have. So whatever they do well,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna maximize that. So guys come and get it

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Speaker 1: done in a lot of different ways, you know, some

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Speaker 1: through quickness and separation, others through catch radius, others through

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Speaker 1: you know, finding holes in zone and just beating beating,

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Speaker 1: running good routes. They're doing a lot of different ways,

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Speaker 1: and so you just want to make sure you identify

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Speaker 1: that and make sure it fits where we're gonna play

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Speaker 1: him at our place. All right, let's jump over to

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Speaker 1: the cornerbacks. What are the important traits as looking for

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Speaker 1: them as they're trying to shut down those very talented

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Speaker 1: wide receivers. You're watching well, the athleticism reactionary athletes and

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Speaker 1: being able to match and mirror, uh finish on the ball,

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Speaker 1: the ball skills, being able to locate downfield, um, being

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Speaker 1: able to vision on the ball, you know, playing multiple

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Speaker 1: coverages vision, you know, whether you have vision on the

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Speaker 1: ball or whether you're playing press man or just doing

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Speaker 1: all different things. They have different skill sets, but just

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Speaker 1: watching them within that and seeing how they can help

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Speaker 1: us and add value to the giants. And I have

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Speaker 1: to imagine working with a guy like Wynk who's pretty

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Speaker 1: clear about what he wants out of that position. I

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Speaker 1: imagine having him and understanding what he wants makes your

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Speaker 1: job finding the guys that will fit what he likes

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Speaker 1: to do a lot easier, right right? That that that's

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Speaker 1: what's so you know great about our organizations. We have

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Speaker 1: a clear vision of what we're looking for. It's a

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Speaker 1: it's a big competitive edge for us because we know

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Speaker 1: what we're looking for and there's a consistency and that's

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Speaker 1: some of the things we do in training camp. Coaches

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Speaker 1: come in and they just lay out, Okay, these are

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Speaker 1: the kind of guys we're looking for and what fits us.

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Speaker 1: And so it makes it easier. You know, want guys

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Speaker 1: who can play man coverage, get the ball, back, um tackle.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of different skills sets that they have

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Speaker 1: to bring to add value to us. But the great

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Speaker 1: thing is there's clarity and offensive side ball, defensive side

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Speaker 1: of the ball, and that that makes our job a

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Speaker 1: lot easier. Just a couple more traits. You mentioned traits

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Speaker 1: and how important they are. How do you balance that

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Speaker 1: worth a guy that's toolsy, but maybe he does not

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Speaker 1: the production in college. But any of the guy that

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Speaker 1: all right, you know, it doesn't run the best forty,

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Speaker 1: you know, but he gets open and he gets it done,

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Speaker 1: he gets production. How do you balance those two things

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to evaluate these guys? Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: hard part about scudden, right, How how do you weigh

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Speaker 1: those things? And that's that's what as a scout doing

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Speaker 1: this over a lot of years, you just keep working

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Speaker 1: to conviction, you know, and some guys get it done

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Speaker 1: in a a different way. But if you watch enough tape

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Speaker 1: and you believe in the makeup of the guy, that

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Speaker 1: he'll be able to reach his potential to be able

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Speaker 1: to impact us in those ways. And it's funny I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna follow up on that because that was my next question.

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Speaker 1: How can you figure out which guys are going to

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Speaker 1: meet that promise? Right? I mean, I imagine that's the

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Speaker 1: hardest part of scouting. It's easy to tell you what

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Speaker 1: the guy could do now, but knowing what he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be in five years? Is that what the interview processes for.

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Speaker 1: How do you figure out whether or not these guys

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Speaker 1: will in fact do the work necessary and whether or

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Speaker 1: not your coaches can get the most out of them

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Speaker 1: too for those traits to turn into production. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you nailed it. It's the character in the makeup that

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Speaker 1: determines whether they can reach their ceiling or not and

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Speaker 1: maximize what they have from the physical skill set wise.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's why we do a lot of research,

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Speaker 1: talk to a lot of sources, spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time investing into what makes these players tick, what motivates them,

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Speaker 1: because we want typically makeup and again we're we believe

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Speaker 1: in that. That's a core belief of our organization of

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Speaker 1: getting quality people as TV you hear that right, being

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Speaker 1: a pro, you know, those are the guys that we

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Speaker 1: want because we know under our coaching staff they'll be

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Speaker 1: developed and reach their potential. It's on the shirt. I

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Speaker 1: know about it. Don't worry ya. How have you evolved

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Speaker 1: in and how you look at this event over the years?

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Speaker 1: You know football has changed a lot, right, the way

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Speaker 1: it's played, what your favorite how is your um just

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Speaker 1: ability to evaluate change and evolved throughout the years at

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Speaker 1: this event and in general, the way the way the

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Speaker 1: NFL has changed over the last five ten years. You're

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Speaker 1: constantly looking back really and it's what our team. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have difference on schemes. Obviously, I've worked under a

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Speaker 1: four man front for my entire career until coming here,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, that's a lot of learning process.

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Speaker 1: So you're we believe in reflection and so like we're

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Speaker 1: always gonna be looking at last year's draft class, three

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Speaker 1: years ago the success and we try to learn from

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Speaker 1: those guys of what's the common denominators that are making

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Speaker 1: these players. However, however we felt about them successful, and

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Speaker 1: then we constantly kind of like machine learning, We'll keep

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Speaker 1: getting better and better. That's the hope. All right. Final

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Speaker 1: question n I l S is a big topic in

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Speaker 1: the end, is that going to help you guys? Because

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Speaker 1: it seems like guys aren't rushing to come out of

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Speaker 1: school now because they can go back to college, get

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Speaker 1: a little money, right, and then they maybe come out

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Speaker 1: a little bit more season than they would before. So

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Speaker 1: in the end, is this actually gonna help you get

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Speaker 1: guys more ready for the NFL to come out because

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Speaker 1: some guys will be more willing to go back to

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Speaker 1: school instead of coming on maybe before they're ready. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting concept just because We're still waiting to

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Speaker 1: see the results and how that plays out. Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: they're coming back. I mean this year, how many six

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Speaker 1: years seniors and several of them here. You know, they

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Speaker 1: have that much more experience where you're not getting as

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Speaker 1: much as the undeveloped, you know, three years and out

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Speaker 1: type guys. So still kind of waiting to see that

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Speaker 1: how that plays out. Dennis taking the Giants assistant director

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Speaker 1: of personnel. We appreciate it, Dennis. Thank you. That's Dennis Hickey,

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Speaker 1: the Giants assistant director of player personnel. We thank him

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Speaker 1: for joining us. And as Joe Shane is said, he's

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Speaker 1: basically right now, uh, the team's quasi director of college scouting,

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Speaker 1: so he's kind of managing the scouting process for the draft.

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Speaker 1: So um, really good talking to Dennis and getting a

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Speaker 1: feel for how he and his staff and obviously working

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Speaker 1: with Joe Shane and the coaches are looking at these

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Speaker 1: players and what helps them determine what players they want

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Speaker 1: to become New York Giants. Really fun conversation. We thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining us out there and mobile in between

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Speaker 1: practices at the Senior Bowls. A good time, alright, everybody,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us on this edition of the

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Speaker 1: Giant Subtle Podcast from an office edition, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by the City College of New York Doing remarkable Things.

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Speaker 1: Learn more at c c n Y dot q NE

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Speaker 1: dot e d U. For Dennis Siti, I'm John Schmulk.

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Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.