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Speaker 1: Pushkin year after year. One of the most common New

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Speaker 1: Year's resolutions is losing weight. Many of us start the

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Speaker 1: new year hating what we see in the mirror, and

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Speaker 1: so we resolved to fix it not by eating just

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Speaker 1: a tad healthier, but by completely overhauling our entire food intake.

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Speaker 1: January can feel like a time when everyone is on

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Speaker 1: some eating regime. Our social media feeds fill up with

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Speaker 1: diat ads and articles about paleo and quito and master

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Speaker 1: cleanses and cabbage soup. Our friends download calorie counting apps

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Speaker 1: and pledge to cut out carbs and sugar. It's hard

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Speaker 1: not to get swept up and all the fresh start

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Speaker 1: diet culture frenzy, especially if you're not feeling all that

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Speaker 1: positive about how you look after the holidays. I know

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Speaker 1: all this very well because I too, have had my

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Speaker 1: fair share of January diet overhauls. I have started many

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Speaker 1: many a new year hating what I saw in the

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Speaker 1: mirror and obsessing over my own eating habits and what

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Speaker 1: was the result of all district dieting. Weeks later, more

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Speaker 1: often than not, I wound up beating myself up for

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Speaker 1: not living up to that perfect picture of health i'd

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Speaker 1: envisioned on New Year's Eve, a resolution I thought would

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Speaker 1: make me happier ended up making me feel more disappointed

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Speaker 1: and more depressed than ever. It's been hard for me

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Speaker 1: to break this annual cycle. But last year, around this time,

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Speaker 1: Andrea Walkeder came to my rescue. Andrea is a psychotherapist

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Speaker 1: who specializes in disordered eating and the problem of diet culture.

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Speaker 1: She's been studying effective ways to eat for over thirty years.

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Speaker 1: I decided to take her meditation course Getting Over Overeating

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Speaker 1: on the Insight Time ra app and it was like

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Speaker 1: a light bulb went off. Hello and welcome to lesson one.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you decided to join me on this journey.

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Speaker 1: If you've been struggling with overeating or binge eating, the

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Speaker 1: most important thing to know is that it's not your fault.

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Speaker 1: Like all the other experts in this New Year mini

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Speaker 1: season of the Happiness Lab, Andrea has discovered that a

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Speaker 1: more self compassionate approach is the key to becoming happier

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Speaker 1: with our bodies and healthier in what we feed ourselves. So,

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Speaker 1: if you are ready to learn more about how you

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Speaker 1: can be healthier and kick that destructive diet habit through kindness,

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Speaker 1: then join me doctor Laurie Santos for another special New

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Speaker 1: Year mini season edition of The Happiness Lab. The topic

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Speaker 1: of what I'm supposed to be eating has taken up way,

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Speaker 1: way more of my thinking than I care to admit.

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Speaker 1: I have spent an embarrassing chunk of my adult life

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Speaker 1: plotting and planning new diet regimes. I've spent hours fantasizing

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Speaker 1: that this time I really will perfectly adhere to that

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Speaker 1: unnecessarily uber strict new eating plan, and I inevitably become

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Speaker 1: sad and disappointed when, surprise, I fail again to live

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Speaker 1: up to the superhuman diet goals I've set for myself,

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Speaker 1: and because I then feel like a loser, I wind

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Speaker 1: up comforting myself with whatever off limits food I was

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Speaker 1: trying to limit in the first place. And that's why

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Speaker 1: I was so taken by Andrea and her work. She

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Speaker 1: knows exactly what all this feels like, because she went

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Speaker 1: through these very same behaviors and worse for years. I

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Speaker 1: think it's really important to be open about the troubling

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Speaker 1: relationship that many of us have with food and eating.

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Speaker 1: But knowing Andrea's personal history, I was a bit nervous

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Speaker 1: about asking her to share all the details. What was

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Speaker 1: once the biggest shameful secret of my life is now

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Speaker 1: my career, so there's kind of nothing. I don't talk

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Speaker 1: about it anymore because there's no shame anymore, because I

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Speaker 1: know it wasn't my fault and I know it was

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Speaker 1: all passed down innocently, and having found a way to

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Speaker 1: climb out, I'm happy to share what I've been through.

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Speaker 1: So with that permission, I asked Andrew to explain her

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Speaker 1: journey towards eating with greater self compassion, beginning with her

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Speaker 1: very earliest memory of when body image and disordered eating

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Speaker 1: took over her life. Basically, I started dieting when I

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Speaker 1: was about twelve years old, and it was the first

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Speaker 1: time I remember having someone comment or say something shameful

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Speaker 1: towards my body. Up until that point, I don't really

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Speaker 1: remember thinking all that much about my body, even though

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Speaker 1: my mom and still is a chronic diet or. But

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Speaker 1: when I was about twelve, I got teased about the

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Speaker 1: size of my thighs. And I call it a dart

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Speaker 1: in the heart moment where something happens and you feel

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Speaker 1: terrible about it, usually terrible about yourself, usually make decisions

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Speaker 1: as a result that are not generally healthy or helpful,

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Speaker 1: and so I felt terrible about my body. Decided that

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Speaker 1: I needed to lose weight, and I started my first diet.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, my mom was already dieting at

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Speaker 1: the time, my older sister was already dieting, and I

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Speaker 1: just op on what I now called the diet riot

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Speaker 1: roller coaster. So talk about what it was like to

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Speaker 1: be on that diet roller coaster inside. Well, once I

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Speaker 1: started obsessing, it was this constant soundtrack and it colored

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Speaker 1: my life. Now. Some people can diet, I call them

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Speaker 1: lightweight dieters pun intended. Some people can diet and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't take over their lives, and some people it's a

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Speaker 1: real huge obsession and leads to problems. And then many

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Speaker 1: people it leads to full blown eating disorders. And that's

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Speaker 1: what happened with me. I just became obsessed, which is

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Speaker 1: the natural response to dieting. I started sneak eating all

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Speaker 1: the food that I wasn't supposed to have on the

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Speaker 1: diet and had huge weight fluctuations. I did have a life,

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Speaker 1: like I went to school and I eventually went to college,

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Speaker 1: and I had lots of friends and summer jobs but

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Speaker 1: on the inside, no matter what I was doing, there

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Speaker 1: was this constant soundtrack of what I was eating, what

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Speaker 1: I wasn't eating, what someone else was eating, and not eating,

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Speaker 1: what my thighs looked like compared to this. I was

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Speaker 1: constantly obsessed and that really colored my life. So this

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Speaker 1: sounds like a horrible soundtrack to turn on in your

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Speaker 1: own head. But here we are at the start of

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Speaker 1: the new year, and so many people are willingly jumping

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Speaker 1: on this diet roller coaster. Tell me kind of how

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Speaker 1: that makes you feel, as somebody who's studied this for

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Speaker 1: so long. Well, it's sad because it's kind of the

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Speaker 1: solution that people are given. And even though the diet

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Speaker 1: industry is hugely successful and multibillion dollar industry that continues

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Speaker 1: to grow, it's got pretty much a ninety five percent

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Speaker 1: failure rate. People think that they themselves are failing, that

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Speaker 1: they're just failing the diets. But really the solution that

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Speaker 1: we're given to body image issues and to binging or

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Speaker 1: overeating is to diet, And the solution that we're given

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Speaker 1: the diet is part of the problem. So I feel

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Speaker 1: sad about it, and I know what it's like to

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Speaker 1: spend your life upset on food and going to parties

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Speaker 1: and not being able to eat what others are eating

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Speaker 1: or what you really want, or eating out of control

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Speaker 1: once you quote slip or break or go off the diet.

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Speaker 1: So I know that only too well. And I also

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Speaker 1: know what the effects of dieting are. And there's it

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Speaker 1: is a roller coaster. So what were some of the

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Speaker 1: negative behaviors you noticed in yourself? You talked about your

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Speaker 1: obsessive thinking, but did you also have behaviors that made

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Speaker 1: you worry that something wasn't right, that you were on

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Speaker 1: this kind of a strange roller coaster. Oh? Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: snuck ate constantly. I tried to eat what I had

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Speaker 1: deemed good foods in front of people, and then naturally

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Speaker 1: ate what I deemed bad foods or what I was

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Speaker 1: taught were bad foods. I would throw food away in

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Speaker 1: an attempt to get rid of it, and then get

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Speaker 1: it out of the garbage and eat it again. I

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Speaker 1: mean just They call it in Alcoholics Anonymous, in the

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Speaker 1: twelfth Step arena, they call it incomprehensible demoralization that I

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Speaker 1: never dreamed I would do. There were even times I

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Speaker 1: would steal people's food when I was out of control

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Speaker 1: with food. What's amazing about your story is that you

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Speaker 1: really realized the bad part of this diet riot roller

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Speaker 1: coaster firsthand. Right, Yes, But after decades of dieting and

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Speaker 1: rioting and severe eating disorder and going on one diet

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Speaker 1: after the next and yo yo weight fluctuations, and then

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Speaker 1: I finally found help that actually helped, and I started

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Speaker 1: working on the deeper issues. And so how were you

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Speaker 1: able to get off this diet riot roller coaster? Well,

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Speaker 1: I began getting sufficient support that took me deeper than

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Speaker 1: just my body size. Support that helped me learn what

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Speaker 1: I was eating over not just what I was eating.

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Speaker 1: Support that helped me stop restricting and start having a

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Speaker 1: new relationship with food and learning how to approach food

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Speaker 1: according to how it would make me feel rather than

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Speaker 1: how it would make me look. And one of my

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Speaker 1: biggest doovers was deciding that I was going to let

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Speaker 1: go of my obsession to change my body and instead

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Speaker 1: learn how to treat my body respectfully and then make

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Speaker 1: peace with whatever that body was going to be as

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Speaker 1: a result. And so, in some ways, ironically, it was

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Speaker 1: this attempt to get over this diet mentality that allowed

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Speaker 1: you to kind of come to terms and love your body,

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Speaker 1: which is what people who are starting out on diets

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Speaker 1: want in some sense in the first place. Exactly. People

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Speaker 1: think that if they change their body, then they love

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Speaker 1: their body. But the way they love your body is

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Speaker 1: to love your body like you cut out the middle

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Speaker 1: guy and you work on that, and it's work on

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Speaker 1: it's roll up your sleeves, work on it. Because of

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Speaker 1: the culture we live in, talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what happens and what the diet mentality does to our

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Speaker 1: brains in our minds. Oh, let me count the ways

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Speaker 1: what it does to our brains in our minds well mentally.

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Speaker 1: First of all, when we deprive ourselves, we become obsessed.

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Speaker 1: If someone is cold and they don't put on a sweater,

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Speaker 1: they're going to be thinking about how cold they are,

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Speaker 1: and when they put on that sweater, they probably don't

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Speaker 1: continue thinking they're cold. Or if someone's tired and they

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Speaker 1: continually deprive themselves of sleep, they can't stop thinking about

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Speaker 1: how tired they are and feeling tired. But as soon

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Speaker 1: as we sleep and get rest, we're not likely to

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Speaker 1: obsess on being tired the next day because that need

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Speaker 1: was met. So when we diet and chronically restrict ourselves

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Speaker 1: of delicious food and enough food. Then our minds obsess

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Speaker 1: on food because they're not getting what they're needing, so

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Speaker 1: it's a natural response. So that's the first huge effect

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Speaker 1: of diets. Secondly, there are hormonal changes that happen in

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Speaker 1: our body as a result of dieting and attempting to

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Speaker 1: lose weight. Unnaturally, have hormones that are responsible for hunger

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Speaker 1: and fullness, and when we die it and we lose

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Speaker 1: weight unnaturally, our hormones will adjust to try to get

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Speaker 1: us back to natural So our hunger hormone will increase

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Speaker 1: because it wants us to eat more, and our satiety

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Speaker 1: hormone will decrease because it wants us to get more

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Speaker 1: food to get more calories because we need it. So hormonally,

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Speaker 1: our bodies are very unhappy when we die it, and

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Speaker 1: when we are eating in a loving, respectful way, which

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Speaker 1: means we don't starve and we don't stuff ourselves, then

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Speaker 1: our hormones regulate, and similarly, metabolically, that's a third area

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Speaker 1: that changes and that gets affected by diets. Our metabolism

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Speaker 1: will adjust if we deprive ourselves and if we try

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Speaker 1: to go lower than our natural weight range. We all

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Speaker 1: have a natural weight range, just like we have a

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Speaker 1: natural foot size and a natural height. Our natural weight

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Speaker 1: range isn't one number, opposed to what we're taught people

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Speaker 1: try to get to be one number. Our natural range

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Speaker 1: is a range. It fluctuates, and when we diet, our

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Speaker 1: range tends to fluctuate enormously and unnaturally, and our metabolism

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Speaker 1: will try to adjust to try to get us back

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Speaker 1: to our natural range because it's natural. So that's another

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Speaker 1: effect to be metabolically happy. We want to stop stuffing

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Speaker 1: and starving ourselves. And when we stop starving ourselves, we

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Speaker 1: stop stuffing ourselves. And you use this wonderful metaphor of

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Speaker 1: all these changes is this kind of diet roller coaster.

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Speaker 1: So talk to me about what you mean about this

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Speaker 1: roller coaster. Yeah, I call it the diet riot roller coaster.

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Speaker 1: So there are certainly many people that just riot. They

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Speaker 1: just binge and painfully overeat and they don't die it.

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Speaker 1: But I've never met anyone that doesn't diet in mentality.

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Speaker 1: So I like to say, whether you're dieting in reality

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Speaker 1: or mentality, it's still going to have that rebound effect

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Speaker 1: of rebellion. So if somebody deprives themselves of food on

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Speaker 1: a diet, whether it's official diet in a book or

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Speaker 1: a doctor, or it's your own deprivation and rules of

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Speaker 1: food groups and foods that you're just not allowed to

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Speaker 1: have because they're bad or they're fattening or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: when someone does that, it sets up this natural response

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Speaker 1: to just want to eat everything the diet mentality tells

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Speaker 1: us not to eat. And again there's people that just

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Speaker 1: binge and overeat and they say they don't diet. But

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Speaker 1: I've never met someone who didn't have diet mentality thinking

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Speaker 1: that they should be dieting, And that still sets us up.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, I grew up in diet culture obviously.

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Speaker 1: I mean I took your course on Insight Timer, which

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Speaker 1: I adored. Everyone who's listening to this should take her course.

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Speaker 1: If you're struggling with this stuff, thank you. But even

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Speaker 1: though I know this stuff, it's sometimes hard for me

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Speaker 1: to believe that it's possible to kind of take care

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Speaker 1: of your body and lovingly feed it in a way

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Speaker 1: that doesn't feel so obsessed. But you've argued that we

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Speaker 1: can all do this if we kind of listen to

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Speaker 1: that voice deep down inside of us if we put

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Speaker 1: some work in to kind of listen to it. We

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Speaker 1: do have this voice, but it's a deep voice. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of in our hearts. It's a natural knowing of

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Speaker 1: how to treat your body, just like you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're cold, you grab a blanket. You know, if you're tired, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: if you're caring for your body, you go to sleep

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Speaker 1: or rest. And we've been so robbed of this innate

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Speaker 1: knowledge of how to feed our bodies because of the

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Speaker 1: diet industry. So this process is about getting it back.

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Speaker 1: So I think people at the start of the new

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Speaker 1: year really want to do something positive for themselves, right

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Speaker 1: like they want to in some sense be healthier or

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Speaker 1: be fitter, but they unwittingly end up jumping on this

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Speaker 1: diet riot roller coaster that leaves them in some ways,

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Speaker 1: like mentally and maybe even physically, worse off than before. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And it's like looking at one piece of a puzzle

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Speaker 1: and missing that there are so many components. I like

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Speaker 1: to talk about a four legged table, and that in

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Speaker 1: order to be healthy and in order to heal from

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Speaker 1: if somebody doesn't feel comfortable in their body or their

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Speaker 1: treatment of their body in order to feel more healthy

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Speaker 1: and more balanced. We have to deal with all four

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Speaker 1: legs of this table in order for the table to

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Speaker 1: be stable. I love a good rhyme. So the four

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Speaker 1: legs or areas to work on if someone wants to

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Speaker 1: start the new year and work on being healthier. The

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Speaker 1: four areas are physical, which is letting go of that

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Speaker 1: extreme diet riot and learning how to feed yourself lovingly

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Speaker 1: and respectfully. And then it's emotional, which is learning how

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Speaker 1: to cope with and tend to your emotions rather than

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Speaker 1: think certain ones are good and certain ones are bad.

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Speaker 1: And then there's mental, which is looking at your thinking.

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Speaker 1: And I think disordered eating is really disordered thinking, so

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Speaker 1: looking at the quality of your thoughts, how you're speaking

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Speaker 1: to yourself all day long. And then the fourth is

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Speaker 1: spiritual and how you're feeding yourself spiritually, how you're connecting

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Speaker 1: with yourself or deeper areas of life. And so when

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Speaker 1: we deal with all four of those areas physical, emotional, mental,

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Speaker 1: and spiritual, not dealing with them perfectly or overnight, but

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Speaker 1: we really work on all those parts of ourselves and

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Speaker 1: our lives. That's how we get healthier in the new

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Speaker 1: year or any time of the year. We're going to

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Speaker 1: take a short break now, but when we return, I'll

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Speaker 1: have Andrea explain exactly how we can make sure all

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Speaker 1: four legs of that table are sturdy, and how kindness

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Speaker 1: and self compassion, yet again are key. The Happiness Lab

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Speaker 1: will be right back. Psychotherapist Andrea Walter describes her experience

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Speaker 1: of disordered eating as like being on a diet riot

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Speaker 1: roller coaster. It's an analogy I can relate to because

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Speaker 1: it's not just that the ups and downs of strict

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Speaker 1: denial and drastic over indulgence are like a fairground ride.

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Speaker 1: There's also a disorienting and deafening inner monologue that comes

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Speaker 1: with this mental ride. It can even sound like a

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Speaker 1: creaky old roller coaster. When you're dieting and rioting, you

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Speaker 1: often can't hear that quiet, kind, calming voice inside you,

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Speaker 1: the one that knows what a body really needs to

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Speaker 1: feel healthy and happy. After years of riding the roller coaster,

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Speaker 1: Andrea had to make a special effort to hear her

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Speaker 1: own calm, inner voice over all that diet noise. I

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Speaker 1: would ask myself over and over if I was feeding

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Speaker 1: someone else who I love, how would I feed them

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Speaker 1: right now? And I always had to add the someone

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Speaker 1: who doesn't diet or riot part. If I'm feeding someone

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Speaker 1: else I love who doesn't diet or riot, how would

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Speaker 1: I feed them? Because if you love someone, some people

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Speaker 1: put loved ones on diets, and some people stuff their

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Speaker 1: loved ones and say here, take more. I love you

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Speaker 1: so much, eat more. So if you're feeding someone who

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Speaker 1: doesn't diet or riot and you love them, how would

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Speaker 1: you feed them? Because I didn't have that intuition for

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Speaker 1: a long time, that intuitive eating in the early years

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Speaker 1: didn't work for me. I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to eat intuitively. I know how to restrict, and

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Speaker 1: I know how to binge. But when I started asking

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Speaker 1: myself that question and asking what feels loving, what feels respectful,

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Speaker 1: then I would get little inklings until it became the

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Speaker 1: new normal. And so I mean, I've tried to be

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Speaker 1: on this path myself of sort of hearing that inner voice,

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Speaker 1: and it's hard, in part because of all these kind

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Speaker 1: of cultural norms, but it's also hard because I think

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Speaker 1: if you have it listened to the voice, in a while,

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Speaker 1: it becomes hard to genuinely hear it. You know, Sometimes

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Speaker 1: when I hear you know, how would you feed yourself lovingly.

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Speaker 1: I think it's got to be the healthy stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: avoid the cookies, Right, Like that kind of idea of

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Speaker 1: good and bad sort of gets in there. And so

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Speaker 1: in your course you talk about three things to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to when you're picking food that should feel loving, nutritious, delicious,

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Speaker 1: and moderate. So talk about why that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: good cue for those of us in the baby steps

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Speaker 1: towards mindful eating. Yeah, I use nutritious, delicious, and moderate

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Speaker 1: as a little checklist because we need to nourish our bodies.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of times when people say I'm not

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Speaker 1: dieting anymore, no more diets for me, than they're perhaps

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Speaker 1: not getting enough nourishing foods. So we do need to

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Speaker 1: nourish our bodies. Whatever that looks like or feels like

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Speaker 1: for anybody is it might be different, right, but there

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Speaker 1: are food groups and there is a way to nourish

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Speaker 1: our bodies. And again we begin to tune into that

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Speaker 1: inner knowing or ask ourselves how we feed someone we

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Speaker 1: love who doesn't diet or riot we can get a sense,

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Speaker 1: so how do you nourish someone? You're not likely to

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Speaker 1: give a child a banana for breakfast and send them

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Speaker 1: off to school for the day. When we think of

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Speaker 1: how would you feed your child, you're more likely to

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Speaker 1: give them a nourishing meal, so nutritious delicious when we

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Speaker 1: die it, we often eat kind of tasteless food, and

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Speaker 1: so we need to make sure that it's delicious food. Now,

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Speaker 1: if I'm just focusing on the deliciousness, then we might

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Speaker 1: not be getting nutritious. So when I first started trying

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Speaker 1: this all on many many years ago, and I was, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not dieting anymore. I'm just going to eat what's delicious. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's not loving to just eat cookies, and it's not

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Speaker 1: loving to just eat donuts, and it's not loving to

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Speaker 1: just eat salad. So we've got some nutritious and some delicious,

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Speaker 1: and they can over lap. Too. Many nutritious foods are

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Speaker 1: delicious to us, and hopefully we do just eat what

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Speaker 1: we like and love and then moderate is what's a

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Speaker 1: loving amount, a respectful amount for your body. Our bodies

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Speaker 1: know when they're satisfied, so it's learning how to listen

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Speaker 1: to that. And this is all easier said than done,

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Speaker 1: especially if we haven't worked on the other legs. So

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Speaker 1: I can't stress that enough. This is a four pronged

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Speaker 1: process here, and so let's talk about one of the

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Speaker 1: other legs. I think kind of the mental part, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, so talk about how you would sort of

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Speaker 1: work on that leg of the table as you put it. Well,

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Speaker 1: we need to look at what's the nature of our thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I talk about three different mind moods. We have an

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Speaker 1: unkind mind, a kind mind, and a quiet mind. And

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Speaker 1: oftentimes when someone is living on the diet Riot roller coaster,

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Speaker 1: they're really hanging out on the unkind mind channel. So

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Speaker 1: we need to have an upgrade in our thinking the

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Speaker 1: quality of our thoughts. And again, just like how would

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Speaker 1: you feed someone you love, how would you speak to

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Speaker 1: someone you love? And looking at the way we're speaking

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Speaker 1: to ourselves and we need to be speaking to ourselves kindly.

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Speaker 1: And then there's also which internal voice are you listening to?

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Speaker 1: Are you listening to the dieter voice that's telling you

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Speaker 1: that's bad, you shouldn't eat, that, you shouldn't look like that.

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Speaker 1: Are we listening to the rioter voice that says, give

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Speaker 1: me everything that I never am allowed to have? Or

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Speaker 1: are we tuning into love? What is respectful, loving, compassionate,

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Speaker 1: treatment and self talk. I think the unkind mind is

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Speaker 1: so important to talk about right now at the New Year,

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Speaker 1: because I think so many of us, in an attempt

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Speaker 1: to better ourselves on January one, end up talking to

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Speaker 1: ourselves in a really unkind way. Yes, So it's bringing

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Speaker 1: consciousness to the way we're talking to ourselves. So often

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Speaker 1: we just have this monologue going and we don't even

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Speaker 1: stop to question it because it just feels so real,

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Speaker 1: sounds so real. But that's often where safe support can

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Speaker 1: come in, getting help from someone who can say, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, that's really not a kind way to speak

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Speaker 1: to yourself, or would you ever speak to someone else

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Speaker 1: like that? And really beginning to take a look at

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Speaker 1: how am I speaking to myself? And would I speak

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Speaker 1: to someone else who I love in this manner? And

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Speaker 1: so another part of the table is to really pay

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Speaker 1: attention to the physical cues that we have around eating

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Speaker 1: and kind of what's causing us to eat. You know,

403
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Speaker 1: we often assume we just eat because we're hungry, But

404
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Speaker 1: then when we really pay attention to what's causing us

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Speaker 1: to pick up that sandwich or that cookie, sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: not hunger at all. Right, Yes, and if you've got

407
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Speaker 1: a history of dieting and rioting, you're likely to be

408
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Speaker 1: pretty cut off from your natural hunger and fullness signals.

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Speaker 1: When I first started that piece of the process, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't really distinguish so much between was that a feeling?

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Speaker 1: Was that a hunger? Paying was that anxiety? Was At first,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on in there, because so

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Speaker 1: much happens in our guts. So for me in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: I just kept going with what feels the most loving?

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Speaker 1: How would I feed someone I love who doesn't diet

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Speaker 1: or riet? Well, I probably would give them some food

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Speaker 1: upon awakening within a reasonable time an hour or half

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Speaker 1: an hour or something. And it probably it wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: a box of donuts, and it wouldn't be a yogurt.

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Speaker 1: It would be what's a loving meal? And I just

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Speaker 1: kept asking myself that it was. I call it the

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Speaker 1: biggest doover of my life when I decided, as I

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Speaker 1: approach the kitchen or open a menu, I am going

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Speaker 1: to ask myself what feels loving, what feels respectful to

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Speaker 1: this body? And I'm going to move aside, step aside

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Speaker 1: that voice that thinks I need to change my body

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Speaker 1: in order to be lovable and acceptable, and I just

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Speaker 1: kept doing that over and over, and it was hard

429
00:25:00,596 --> 00:25:03,116
Speaker 1: at first, because just like meeting someone new, you don't

430
00:25:03,116 --> 00:25:05,556
Speaker 1: know them. It takes time. It takes time to get

431
00:25:05,596 --> 00:25:07,756
Speaker 1: to know that voice inside of us. You know. One

432
00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:09,836
Speaker 1: of the things I observed when I to do this

433
00:25:09,996 --> 00:25:12,236
Speaker 1: is that when I was craving food in the beginning

434
00:25:12,276 --> 00:25:14,876
Speaker 1: of this journey, oftentimes it had nothing to do with

435
00:25:14,916 --> 00:25:17,716
Speaker 1: my hunger cues whatsoever. The food was trying to fill

436
00:25:17,796 --> 00:25:20,596
Speaker 1: something else. And this gets to I think your spiritual

437
00:25:20,676 --> 00:25:22,316
Speaker 1: leg of the table. We need to kind of figure

438
00:25:22,316 --> 00:25:25,036
Speaker 1: out what else is missing, because it seems like sometimes

439
00:25:25,076 --> 00:25:27,076
Speaker 1: we kind of go to food when there's some other

440
00:25:27,076 --> 00:25:31,156
Speaker 1: thing we're looking for. Absolutely, we were somebody I read

441
00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:37,836
Speaker 1: once that binging or dieting our attempts to find spirituality

442
00:25:37,876 --> 00:25:40,276
Speaker 1: but going to the wrong address. You know, it's like

443
00:25:40,316 --> 00:25:42,476
Speaker 1: a good valid try to get filled up, or to

444
00:25:42,516 --> 00:25:44,356
Speaker 1: get some more sweetness in your life, or to get

445
00:25:44,396 --> 00:25:47,116
Speaker 1: some comfort. I say, good try. We're just doing the

446
00:25:47,116 --> 00:25:49,996
Speaker 1: best we can, trying to fill ourselves up. But when

447
00:25:49,996 --> 00:25:54,916
Speaker 1: we really fill our spirits, we feel better afterwards. We

448
00:25:54,996 --> 00:25:58,716
Speaker 1: feel fulfilled, afterwards, we don't feel regretful or stuffed. Or

449
00:25:58,756 --> 00:26:02,196
Speaker 1: like we hurt ourselves or deprived ourselves. I always encourage

450
00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:04,916
Speaker 1: people to make a spirit filler list and to gather

451
00:26:05,076 --> 00:26:08,476
Speaker 1: ideas as you go and to find ways to fill

452
00:26:08,556 --> 00:26:11,956
Speaker 1: your spirit in a way that you feel better afterwards.

453
00:26:12,676 --> 00:26:15,356
Speaker 1: And so, what are some examples on your spirit filler list,

454
00:26:15,396 --> 00:26:17,076
Speaker 1: because I think this will be really important for our

455
00:26:17,076 --> 00:26:20,356
Speaker 1: listeners to hear some of good examples. Oh, my spirit

456
00:26:20,396 --> 00:26:25,756
Speaker 1: filler list, rest and getting in nature and yoga and

457
00:26:26,556 --> 00:26:30,476
Speaker 1: taking a bath and meditating and connecting with loved ones,

458
00:26:31,116 --> 00:26:35,276
Speaker 1: watching a comedy or reading. I paint rocks. I decided

459
00:26:35,316 --> 00:26:37,556
Speaker 1: a few years ago I needed something off the screens,

460
00:26:37,916 --> 00:26:41,156
Speaker 1: so I started just doodling and painting on rocks. So

461
00:26:41,196 --> 00:26:44,596
Speaker 1: there's lots of ways that people fill their spirits, mostly

462
00:26:44,636 --> 00:26:46,836
Speaker 1: to me, going into nature, going to the beach or

463
00:26:46,836 --> 00:26:50,516
Speaker 1: the woods or swimming, and everybody has to find what

464
00:26:50,996 --> 00:26:54,316
Speaker 1: fills them and ways that even if it's just resting

465
00:26:54,516 --> 00:26:57,596
Speaker 1: in a way that's guilt free and you're filling back up,

466
00:26:57,716 --> 00:27:00,796
Speaker 1: that's what we're looking for getting comfort. I'm glad you

467
00:27:00,796 --> 00:27:03,596
Speaker 1: mentioned the resting thing because one of the early experiences

468
00:27:03,596 --> 00:27:05,716
Speaker 1: I had after taking your course on insight Timer when

469
00:27:05,756 --> 00:27:07,916
Speaker 1: I was trying to pay attention to why I was

470
00:27:07,956 --> 00:27:10,356
Speaker 1: eating things. Was you know, I was actually working on

471
00:27:10,396 --> 00:27:13,356
Speaker 1: podcast episodes in fact, and started writing, writing, writing, and

472
00:27:13,396 --> 00:27:16,236
Speaker 1: I had this craving to like head downstairs and get

473
00:27:16,276 --> 00:27:18,476
Speaker 1: like a cookie or get some chips or eat something.

474
00:27:18,916 --> 00:27:20,556
Speaker 1: But I knew I wasn't really hungry, And as I

475
00:27:20,596 --> 00:27:23,236
Speaker 1: was kind of walking down, I realized, actually what I

476
00:27:23,236 --> 00:27:25,796
Speaker 1: really needed was just to like stand up, right. I

477
00:27:25,836 --> 00:27:28,996
Speaker 1: was sitting in that chair writing for hours, and I

478
00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:31,356
Speaker 1: think my body just wanted to like get up, move around,

479
00:27:31,436 --> 00:27:34,556
Speaker 1: get a change of scenery. But the only thing that

480
00:27:34,716 --> 00:27:36,596
Speaker 1: I would allow myself to do if I was like

481
00:27:36,676 --> 00:27:38,956
Speaker 1: taking a break, was to go eat something. And that

482
00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:42,236
Speaker 1: was a really important moment because it made me realize, like, oh,

483
00:27:42,276 --> 00:27:44,516
Speaker 1: my body doesn't want food right now. It just wants

484
00:27:44,516 --> 00:27:46,956
Speaker 1: a break. And sometimes the only way you think you

485
00:27:46,996 --> 00:27:50,196
Speaker 1: can give yourself a break is with like eating something exactly,

486
00:27:50,356 --> 00:27:52,236
Speaker 1: especially if that's a habit. It's kind of like if

487
00:27:52,236 --> 00:27:54,716
Speaker 1: the baby starts crying, you want to rule out all

488
00:27:54,716 --> 00:27:57,836
Speaker 1: the reasons, right, So maybe it's hungry, maybe it's tired,

489
00:27:57,876 --> 00:28:00,356
Speaker 1: maybe it needs a diaper change, maybe it's something's poking it.

490
00:28:00,396 --> 00:28:02,916
Speaker 1: We have to rule things out. So if we want food,

491
00:28:03,236 --> 00:28:06,196
Speaker 1: we have to rule out am I hungry or unsatisfied

492
00:28:06,236 --> 00:28:09,156
Speaker 1: from my last eating experience? And if you've eaten and

493
00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:12,716
Speaker 1: then it was a delicious, nutritious, yummy meal or smack, okay,

494
00:28:12,756 --> 00:28:15,556
Speaker 1: I'm probably not hungry. So now am I having feelings?

495
00:28:15,636 --> 00:28:17,756
Speaker 1: Do I need to tend to some emotions that I'm having?

496
00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:20,516
Speaker 1: Or what am I thinking? Are my thoughts kind of

497
00:28:20,876 --> 00:28:24,556
Speaker 1: sending myself in an unkind direction an unhelpful direction, or

498
00:28:24,596 --> 00:28:27,076
Speaker 1: am I needing something? Or is there a deeper need

499
00:28:27,156 --> 00:28:31,076
Speaker 1: here and needing something more spiritual or to connect with

500
00:28:31,236 --> 00:28:33,356
Speaker 1: or even just to rest or to stand up or

501
00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:35,636
Speaker 1: sit down or whatever. And all of the strategies you're

502
00:28:35,636 --> 00:28:37,596
Speaker 1: giving us fits with something we talk a lot about

503
00:28:37,636 --> 00:28:40,236
Speaker 1: on the Happiness Lab, which is the simple act of

504
00:28:40,276 --> 00:28:43,196
Speaker 1: mindfully paying attention right. You know, for me to notice

505
00:28:43,236 --> 00:28:45,356
Speaker 1: what was going on with my craving, I had to

506
00:28:45,436 --> 00:28:48,716
Speaker 1: kind of be there and pay attention right to my emotions.

507
00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:51,396
Speaker 1: But I think also to notice that you're eating nutritious,

508
00:28:51,436 --> 00:28:53,956
Speaker 1: delicious stuff, you also have to be there when you eat.

509
00:28:54,356 --> 00:28:56,716
Speaker 1: And this is something I struggle with, is like simply

510
00:28:56,756 --> 00:28:59,716
Speaker 1: being present and not checking my email or ignoring it

511
00:28:59,996 --> 00:29:02,516
Speaker 1: during the simple act of eating. So talked a little

512
00:29:02,556 --> 00:29:05,076
Speaker 1: bit about some strategies people can use if they want

513
00:29:05,116 --> 00:29:07,516
Speaker 1: to kind of pay more attention during eating and be

514
00:29:07,636 --> 00:29:11,276
Speaker 1: more mindful. Well, I think this process is about paying

515
00:29:11,276 --> 00:29:14,636
Speaker 1: more attention in general. Right, It's really about waking up

516
00:29:14,676 --> 00:29:18,156
Speaker 1: and being more conscious. And that's the only way that

517
00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:22,116
Speaker 1: I have found to make sustained change is to be

518
00:29:22,316 --> 00:29:27,556
Speaker 1: more aware and kind of parent ourselves. And loving parent

519
00:29:27,716 --> 00:29:30,476
Speaker 1: doesn't just send a kid off and just let them

520
00:29:30,556 --> 00:29:33,636
Speaker 1: roam the house all day without care. And so it's

521
00:29:33,676 --> 00:29:36,516
Speaker 1: really caring for our body, caring for our mind, caring

522
00:29:36,556 --> 00:29:41,676
Speaker 1: for our needs, and tending to ourselves and being awake

523
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:44,556
Speaker 1: at the wheel, so to speak. So being awake and

524
00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:48,596
Speaker 1: aware when you're eating, being more awake and aware when

525
00:29:48,596 --> 00:29:51,356
Speaker 1: you're not eating, what you're needing, what you're feeling. And

526
00:29:51,516 --> 00:29:54,836
Speaker 1: so often people with whether it's a full blown eating

527
00:29:54,836 --> 00:29:59,476
Speaker 1: disorder like I had, or just disordered eating, people have

528
00:29:59,556 --> 00:30:03,436
Speaker 1: had kind of a hypnotic spell cast upon us, and

529
00:30:03,516 --> 00:30:07,916
Speaker 1: it leads us to be pretty checked out. With these

530
00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:12,676
Speaker 1: screens is constant scream use, and with just obligations and

531
00:30:12,756 --> 00:30:15,556
Speaker 1: now all the anxiety in the world, it can leave

532
00:30:15,636 --> 00:30:20,956
Speaker 1: us pretty numb. So what's being asked here is a lot,

533
00:30:21,076 --> 00:30:22,956
Speaker 1: but you get a lot as a result, you get

534
00:30:22,956 --> 00:30:25,836
Speaker 1: a lot back. So it's a worthy cause. But it

535
00:30:25,956 --> 00:30:29,436
Speaker 1: is about being more aware of how you're treating yourself

536
00:30:29,876 --> 00:30:32,396
Speaker 1: and how you're speaking to yourself. So as we put

537
00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:34,316
Speaker 1: all these legs of the table back, I think a

538
00:30:34,356 --> 00:30:36,996
Speaker 1: final thing we need to pay attention to is kind

539
00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:39,836
Speaker 1: of trying to avoid these cultural forces that led us

540
00:30:39,836 --> 00:30:42,356
Speaker 1: onto this diet riot roller coaster in the first place.

541
00:30:42,396 --> 00:30:45,036
Speaker 1: And I feel like there's nothing harder than to do

542
00:30:45,076 --> 00:30:47,396
Speaker 1: that during the new year, where it feels like, you know,

543
00:30:47,436 --> 00:30:50,076
Speaker 1: there are forces screaming get us to restrict our foods

544
00:30:50,156 --> 00:30:53,436
Speaker 1: or to eat keto or eat healthy. You know, any

545
00:30:53,556 --> 00:30:56,156
Speaker 1: hints for how to fight these forces, especially at this

546
00:30:56,196 --> 00:30:58,556
Speaker 1: time of the year, Well, the first hint is you

547
00:30:58,596 --> 00:31:02,596
Speaker 1: have to believe in what I'm saying here, what we're

548
00:31:02,636 --> 00:31:06,036
Speaker 1: talking about. You have to buy in to the idea

549
00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:09,356
Speaker 1: that the diet is not the solution to a body

550
00:31:09,356 --> 00:31:12,756
Speaker 1: image issue or feeling unhealthy in your body. The diet

551
00:31:12,956 --> 00:31:16,156
Speaker 1: is part of the problem. So you'd have to believe that.

552
00:31:16,636 --> 00:31:21,836
Speaker 1: And once you believe it, it's about really standing by

553
00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:26,036
Speaker 1: that belief and acting according to that belief. And so

554
00:31:26,276 --> 00:31:30,916
Speaker 1: once I believed that dieting is not of interest to

555
00:31:30,916 --> 00:31:34,676
Speaker 1: me anymore and that it only sets up obsession and binging,

556
00:31:35,396 --> 00:31:38,716
Speaker 1: then no matter what other people were doing, it didn't

557
00:31:38,796 --> 00:31:41,356
Speaker 1: matter it maybe it wasn't as enjoyable. I remember in

558
00:31:41,396 --> 00:31:43,636
Speaker 1: the early years when I was first trying to make

559
00:31:43,636 --> 00:31:48,236
Speaker 1: the shift, and I would go be with people that

560
00:31:48,396 --> 00:31:51,956
Speaker 1: were still dieting, and I remember there would be times

561
00:31:51,956 --> 00:31:55,076
Speaker 1: where let's say I was visiting family and we were

562
00:31:55,076 --> 00:31:57,556
Speaker 1: going to go out to dinner, let's say, and it

563
00:31:57,636 --> 00:32:00,196
Speaker 1: was lunch time, it was mid afternoon, and I'd say, oh,

564
00:32:00,316 --> 00:32:02,036
Speaker 1: I'm gonna eat lunch, and they'd say, oh, we're going

565
00:32:02,076 --> 00:32:04,116
Speaker 1: to have a big dinner, an early dinner. I'm going

566
00:32:04,196 --> 00:32:05,916
Speaker 1: to skip lunch. And I'd say, okay, well I'm going

567
00:32:05,996 --> 00:32:07,796
Speaker 1: to go have a lunch. And I would just it

568
00:32:07,836 --> 00:32:10,756
Speaker 1: took it was brave to go against the culture. Or

569
00:32:10,876 --> 00:32:13,676
Speaker 1: I want to maybe dessert with my breakfast and nobody

570
00:32:13,676 --> 00:32:15,516
Speaker 1: on they thought it was weird. Or I don't want

571
00:32:15,556 --> 00:32:17,956
Speaker 1: dessert with my dinner because I'm full of sort of

572
00:32:17,996 --> 00:32:22,716
Speaker 1: going against the cultural norms is brave. But once you

573
00:32:22,876 --> 00:32:25,196
Speaker 1: know this is what I need to do to get

574
00:32:25,236 --> 00:32:28,036
Speaker 1: my own relationship with my body back and to get

575
00:32:28,076 --> 00:32:31,236
Speaker 1: off that diet riot roller coaster, and you're committed to it.

576
00:32:31,516 --> 00:32:35,636
Speaker 1: And once you know wholeheartedly that dieting is part of

577
00:32:35,676 --> 00:32:39,316
Speaker 1: the problem, not the solution, then it's about being brave

578
00:32:39,356 --> 00:32:42,596
Speaker 1: and taking a stand and doing it differently. Sometimes I'll

579
00:32:42,596 --> 00:32:45,236
Speaker 1: say to my clients, if someone in your family has

580
00:32:45,276 --> 00:32:46,956
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom, do you think you should

581
00:32:46,996 --> 00:32:49,796
Speaker 1: automatically go to You know, it's like we get to

582
00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:53,036
Speaker 1: have different bodily needs and it's brave on this one.

583
00:32:53,516 --> 00:32:55,956
Speaker 1: And so how has this approach changed your life? I mean,

584
00:32:56,036 --> 00:32:58,876
Speaker 1: you've talked about this being a moment that has changed everything,

585
00:32:58,956 --> 00:33:01,356
Speaker 1: So talk about how it's changed your relationship with your

586
00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:05,436
Speaker 1: body but also your happiness only completely, only every day.

587
00:33:06,196 --> 00:33:10,476
Speaker 1: Just I used to be completely obsessed with food and

588
00:33:10,636 --> 00:33:17,156
Speaker 1: my body, and I was either restricting and obsessing or

589
00:33:17,156 --> 00:33:21,276
Speaker 1: overeating and binging and obsessing and white knuckling or out

590
00:33:21,316 --> 00:33:24,276
Speaker 1: of control. And again, you don't have to be as

591
00:33:24,276 --> 00:33:27,276
Speaker 1: extreme as I was to still deserve and warrant help.

592
00:33:28,156 --> 00:33:32,596
Speaker 1: And now I eat food when my body tells me

593
00:33:32,996 --> 00:33:37,036
Speaker 1: it needs food, and I choose just exactly what I

594
00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:40,156
Speaker 1: like and what I want and there's no longer. In

595
00:33:40,196 --> 00:33:41,916
Speaker 1: the beginning, when I was learning this, there was a

596
00:33:41,956 --> 00:33:44,996
Speaker 1: lot of inner committee dialogue of is that loving to

597
00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:46,956
Speaker 1: have that? Is it restricting if I don't have that?

598
00:33:47,036 --> 00:33:49,636
Speaker 1: As it felt like every meal was a big committee meeting.

599
00:33:49,996 --> 00:33:52,676
Speaker 1: And now I just know exactly what I want and

600
00:33:52,756 --> 00:33:55,876
Speaker 1: I just go get it. Fortunately, I'm fortunate enough to

601
00:33:55,916 --> 00:33:57,916
Speaker 1: be able to have resources and have what I want

602
00:33:57,916 --> 00:34:01,116
Speaker 1: in my home. So now that frees me up. That

603
00:34:01,196 --> 00:34:04,516
Speaker 1: frees me up so much time. I think about all

604
00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:07,996
Speaker 1: the time I spent thinking about food and my body

605
00:34:08,036 --> 00:34:12,316
Speaker 1: size and just missed out on life. And I don't

606
00:34:12,316 --> 00:34:15,396
Speaker 1: think anybody gets to their deathbed and wishes they were

607
00:34:15,396 --> 00:34:18,876
Speaker 1: a different size. I've had so many clients in their

608
00:34:19,436 --> 00:34:22,276
Speaker 1: eighties and late eighties who have said that they don't

609
00:34:22,276 --> 00:34:26,076
Speaker 1: even have a memory of eating naturally and feeling comfortable

610
00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:29,196
Speaker 1: and peaceful in their bodies. So so many people just

611
00:34:29,476 --> 00:34:33,676
Speaker 1: lose years out of their lives thinking about food and

612
00:34:33,796 --> 00:34:36,476
Speaker 1: body obsession. So for me, I've gotten that back. I

613
00:34:36,556 --> 00:34:39,436
Speaker 1: have a lot more free time, and that frees me up,

614
00:34:39,796 --> 00:34:41,756
Speaker 1: and I get to read if I want to read,

615
00:34:41,796 --> 00:34:44,596
Speaker 1: and go walk in nature or sit down or do

616
00:34:44,676 --> 00:34:48,236
Speaker 1: a podcast with a lovely person. So it just frees

617
00:34:48,316 --> 00:34:51,636
Speaker 1: me up to be able to see what else there

618
00:34:51,836 --> 00:34:54,516
Speaker 1: is in life. It doesn't mean I'm happy all the time.

619
00:34:54,636 --> 00:34:57,636
Speaker 1: That's not natural either. It just means that I'm not

620
00:34:57,716 --> 00:35:02,796
Speaker 1: obsessed with food all the time or at all. Since

621
00:35:02,876 --> 00:35:05,756
Speaker 1: learning of Andrew's work, I've tried really hard to reduce

622
00:35:05,796 --> 00:35:08,556
Speaker 1: the amount of mental time and emotional energy I spend

623
00:35:08,636 --> 00:35:11,876
Speaker 1: thinking food and eating. I'm still more influenced than i'd

624
00:35:11,876 --> 00:35:14,156
Speaker 1: like to be by all the cultural pressures to look

625
00:35:14,156 --> 00:35:16,676
Speaker 1: a certain way or eat a particular thing, or to

626
00:35:16,716 --> 00:35:19,436
Speaker 1: think of food as good or bad. But this year,

627
00:35:19,556 --> 00:35:22,316
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find that kinder, more compassionate voice in

628
00:35:22,396 --> 00:35:26,116
Speaker 1: my head, and so my eating resolution for twenty twenty one,

629
00:35:26,476 --> 00:35:29,396
Speaker 1: unlike the diet riot urges of years past, is to

630
00:35:29,436 --> 00:35:32,796
Speaker 1: ask myself the question Andrea suggested. If I was feeding

631
00:35:32,876 --> 00:35:35,436
Speaker 1: someone else who I loved, how would I feed them?

632
00:35:35,516 --> 00:35:38,596
Speaker 1: Right now, it sounds like a tiny step, but for me,

633
00:35:39,116 --> 00:35:43,076
Speaker 1: it's been a game changer. In our next and final

634
00:35:43,156 --> 00:35:46,556
Speaker 1: episode of this New Year mini season, we'll tackle another

635
00:35:46,596 --> 00:35:49,956
Speaker 1: super common resolution that also causes us to be unkind

636
00:35:49,956 --> 00:35:54,636
Speaker 1: to ourselves and to our happiness. Exercise. So if you

637
00:35:54,676 --> 00:35:56,756
Speaker 1: want to learn more about how you can engage with

638
00:35:56,876 --> 00:36:00,196
Speaker 1: fitness more self compassionately. I hope you'll come back for

639
00:36:00,236 --> 00:36:03,676
Speaker 1: the next episode of The Happiness Lab with me, Doctor

640
00:36:03,756 --> 00:36:13,076
Speaker 1: Laurie Santos. That Penis Lab was co written and produced

641
00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:15,676
Speaker 1: by Ryan Dilley. The show was mixed and mastered by

642
00:36:15,676 --> 00:36:18,756
Speaker 1: Evan Viola, and our original music was by Zachary Silver.

643
00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:23,116
Speaker 1: Special thanks to the entire Pushkin team, including Mela Belle,

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Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Carl mcgliori, Heather Fame, Sophie Crane, mckibbon, Eric Sandler,

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Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, and my agent Ben Davis. That Penis Lab

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Speaker 1: is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and by me,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Laurie Santos,