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Speaker 1: Getting out of the military is really tough. You go

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Speaker 1: from being a part of a team to going solo.

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Speaker 1: And if you think about it, when you join up

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Speaker 1: in the military, you're taught to shoot, move, and communicate

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Speaker 1: together as a team. Then you go to war and

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Speaker 1: you fight, you bleed, you die together as a team.

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Speaker 1: Then once your time in the military is over, everyone

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Speaker 1: goes their separate ways. People retire, they go to different units,

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Speaker 1: move to different bases. That sense of collective identity or

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Speaker 1: team that was built through all of that training goes

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Speaker 1: away in an instant, and so many of our men

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Speaker 1: and women in uniform end up feeling alone. In some cases,

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Speaker 1: you can end up feeling like an exile in your

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Speaker 1: own country. You're not surrounded by your battle buddies anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I see a lot of men and women get

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Speaker 1: stuck at this point in their transition out of the

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Speaker 1: military and really really struggle. It's like they can't leave

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Speaker 1: that part of them behind. And I totally get it.

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Speaker 1: Being a warrior, or your experience of war will never

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Speaker 1: ever go away. It never leaves your heart, it never

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Speaker 1: leaves your mind. It's always with you in some way,

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Speaker 1: shape or form. But so many have a difficult time

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Speaker 1: saying that they have a difficult time saying Okay. That

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Speaker 1: was one phase of my life. It was an important one.

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Speaker 1: It's one that will be with me forever. But it's

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Speaker 1: time to step into the next phase. And I think

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Speaker 1: part of the reason for that is is that a

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Speaker 1: lot of former servicemen and women lack clarity on what

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Speaker 1: their next mission is. You know, for me, it was

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Speaker 1: writing the story of my troops, finishing a book. That

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Speaker 1: book eventually became outwell Patune. Now, don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 1: When I first got out of the army, I struggled

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Speaker 1: a lot. I languished, I wandered, I lacked clarity, I

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Speaker 1: lacked focus. But eventually I found my next mission in

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Speaker 1: capturing the legacy of my troops. Once that was done,

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Speaker 1: that led me to the next mission, charity work with

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Speaker 1: Service Dog and helping our men and women come home

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Speaker 1: from war. And the next mission was running for office,

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Speaker 1: service to the nation once again. But you get the point.

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Speaker 1: I jumped from one mission to the next to the next,

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Speaker 1: and what helped me find and identify that mission was

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Speaker 1: identifying what I felt like my purpose was, and to me,

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Speaker 1: it was service, service to others, service to god, service

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Speaker 1: to family, to country. Once I found that purpose, that

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Speaker 1: word service, it was simply a matter of weaving my

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Speaker 1: current mission into that purpose. Now everyone's purpose won't always

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Speaker 1: be the same, but once you find it, weave it

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Speaker 1: into your personal mission. And I think it's from here

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Speaker 1: that great things happen. Jack Carr, you know who's my

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Speaker 1: next guest. We talked about this and so much more.

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Speaker 1: Jack Carr, if you don't already know, is a former

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Speaker 1: Navy seal with twenty years of service combat experience all

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Speaker 1: over the world, and now he is a best selling

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Speaker 1: author of a lot of great, great thrillers, the first

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Speaker 1: of which is a book that you probably know called

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Speaker 1: The Terminal List, and that book was turned into an

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime series starring Chris Pratt, which is also incredible.

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Speaker 1: You've got to go watch it. But we talked about

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Speaker 1: a lot of amazing things why Jack decided to join

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Speaker 1: the Navy, but not just the Navy, the seal team, community,

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Speaker 1: the process of writing great stories, what makes a great

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Speaker 1: hero and a great villain, in the process of filming

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Speaker 1: an Amazon Prime television show. So you get an incredible,

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Speaker 1: unprecedented behind the scenes look of all of that from

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Speaker 1: the guy who wrote it and helped produce it. The

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Speaker 1: conversation that we have together is great. I hope you

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Speaker 1: enjoy it. And without further ado, here's my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Jack Carr. Well, well, well Jack Carr, welcome to Battleground. Man.

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you it is. It is so great

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Speaker 1: to see you. You've been kicking ass and taking names

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Speaker 1: and it's been an honor to watch Man.

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Speaker 2: Time exa. But I've been watching you too, And that's

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Speaker 2: what I love about doing these podcasts is that we

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Speaker 2: can sit down. We turned off emails, so that's not beeping,

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Speaker 2: turned off loan, so that's not puzzn't and we get

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Speaker 2: to hang out and talk for a while and just

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Speaker 2: and just catch up. And just because of you know,

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Speaker 2: all this access we have these days, we're constantly working.

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Speaker 2: There's no going home from the office because the office

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Speaker 2: is right here with us time, you know, and people,

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Speaker 2: I think people like us just are just driven to

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Speaker 2: continue to always, you know, make things better, continue to build.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that ever goes away. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you ever finished building. I get I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: that that's not the case. I don't think you ever

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Speaker 2: finish building. So we're going all the time, which means

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Speaker 2: that we don't take the time just to turn everything

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Speaker 2: off and talk to each other. So that's what I

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Speaker 2: love about doing podcast is we get to just hang

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Speaker 2: out and catch up for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're so right, and you know what it

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Speaker 1: means to rock and roll, move out and draw fire.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jack twenty years and as a Navy seal

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Speaker 1: right deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, did some counter in certainty

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Speaker 1: training in the Philippines. Now you've got five books out,

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Speaker 1: a six on the way right, true believer?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in the closet upstairs and get back to work. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's so you've done some incredible, incredible things

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Speaker 1: like both in the service to this country and after.

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Speaker 1: And I guess I just wanted to start with why

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Speaker 1: why get into the military in the first place? You

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Speaker 1: know what, what propelled you to want to put on

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Speaker 1: the uniform and put your life on the line for

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Speaker 1: this country?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, first off, I'll tell you what. My first

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Speaker 2: day in any of those countries was not like your

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Speaker 2: first day, and you know it was.

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Speaker 1: A pretty rude awakening.

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Speaker 2: Hasn't read read your book out Applatune? They need to

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Speaker 2: put this on pause, go get it right now and

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Speaker 2: read it. That first day and your experience over there

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Speaker 2: is just uh. I mean that's a like I recommend

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Speaker 2: that book to everybody that asked me, Hey, what should

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Speaker 2: I read? And they always expect me to say a,

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Speaker 2: you know, a seal book because there's a couple out there,

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Speaker 2: and uh, and you know, I say yours because that

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Speaker 2: gives you. I mean, it's just so visceral, and it's

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Speaker 2: just you getting thrown into this situation that you're you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of training, but not for what

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Speaker 2: you I mean you, I don't know if you can

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Speaker 2: really train for what you experienced, especially throughout your whole

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Speaker 2: time there, especially that first day. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: there's any amount of training that actually prepares you for something.

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Speaker 1: Well. I mean, we weren't Navy seals, that's for sure,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, we were just like I always

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Speaker 1: tell people, like, the job before carrying a machine gun

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan for some of my men was high school shortstop,

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Speaker 1: and so they went through their basic training their AI

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Speaker 1: t assigned to an infantry unit. Eight months later, we

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Speaker 1: were downrange in Afghanistan getting our asses shot off. Every day,

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Speaker 1: and so I mean it and I know by the way,

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Speaker 1: I know you understand what this means. But it was just,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so many tough times when you're in

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Speaker 1: combat and so many negative experiences. It's that tend to

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Speaker 1: stick with you for a lifetime, you know. But watching

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Speaker 1: America's sons and daughters in those life and death moments

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Speaker 1: and having the privilege to lead them, Jack, it was

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Speaker 1: just the honor of a lifetime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, you stepped up from

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Speaker 2: about zero training and led these guys. I mean, it's incredible.

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Speaker 2: It's an incredible story. Everybody ever remember I can should

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Speaker 2: read it because it gives you an appreciation of kind

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Speaker 2: of what was sacrificed. And then you think of, oh,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't just like this guy. It was from the

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Speaker 2: inception of this country up until today, that people have

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Speaker 2: been doing things like this and sacrificing for us so

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Speaker 2: we could have these freedoms, so we could have these

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Speaker 2: options and opportunities that we have today. And then maybe

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Speaker 2: they'll take a little more thought and put that time

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Speaker 2: into studying the issues of the day so that when

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Speaker 2: they go into that voting booth or before they retweet something,

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Speaker 2: they just take a pause and think about what was

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Speaker 2: sacrificed so that they could do those things, and then

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Speaker 2: before they go on with the rest of the day,

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Speaker 2: just put a little more thought into it, because we're

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Speaker 2: not really making those decision when we go into that

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Speaker 2: voting booth or you're retweeting that thing, whatever you're doing,

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Speaker 2: it's not for us. It's for our children and our grandchildren.

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Speaker 2: So as we make today influenced them in the you know,

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Speaker 2: the country for generations to come. So but anyway, I

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Speaker 2: did kind of hijack that question there. Why did I

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Speaker 2: do in the military. You know, I think it was

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Speaker 2: in eight I think even if I didn't have a

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Speaker 2: family history, I would have just been drawn to service.

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Speaker 2: But my grandfather served in World War Two. He was

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Speaker 2: killed off Okinawa in nineteen forty five. He was a

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Speaker 2: marine pilot, so he flew the course air which is

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Speaker 2: the one that had the gold wings. And you know,

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Speaker 2: right about that time that I'm going through his medals

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Speaker 2: in little box from in the attic and the silk

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Speaker 2: maps that they used to give aviators back then, because

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Speaker 2: if you had paper maps and you hit the water,

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Speaker 2: if they just got to you know, disintegrate, but a

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Speaker 2: silk map just gets wet and you still use it.

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Speaker 2: So I had his wings. I had all these black

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Speaker 2: and white photos of him, like standing on the wing

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Speaker 2: of his course air and his whole squadron in the Pacific,

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Speaker 2: you know, in front of their little hooch, and so

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Speaker 2: I had all those things, and I was just enamored

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Speaker 2: with it. And also there was a show on called

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Speaker 2: Black Sheep Squadron, and I was already watching it in

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Speaker 2: reruns because it came out in the late seventies. I

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Speaker 2: was watching it in the early eighties, so it was

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Speaker 2: already in syndication. I think he just ran for two seasons,

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Speaker 2: I think. But Robert Conrad portraying Pappy Boyton, who is

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Speaker 2: a Marine Corps aviator in the Pacific in World War Two,

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Speaker 2: like my grandfather, and I'm watching this show, and of

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Speaker 2: course he's a little he. I identified with him immediately

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Speaker 2: because he's a hard drinker and he's a fighter. And

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Speaker 2: I read his auto biography and then I met him

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Speaker 2: at an air show and so I got to meet

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Speaker 2: him about a year before he passed away, so I

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Speaker 2: got to shake his hand. I still have the book

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Speaker 2: that he signed for me. So I think it was just,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was already in my blood. But also

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Speaker 2: those things certainly helped. And now looking back, it highlights

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Speaker 2: the power of popular culture and how important that is,

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Speaker 2: especially for young men to look up to people like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking up to Pappy Boyton portrayed by Robert Conrad,

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Speaker 2: and I get to meet Robert Conrad too when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid, which is crazy, so I got to

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Speaker 2: meet both of them. But looking up to those heroes,

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Speaker 2: and what do they do. They're serving their country, they

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Speaker 2: are sacrificing, they are leading, and so you're getting all

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Speaker 2: even though you think you're just watching a show, you're

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Speaker 2: really getting some good values by watching a show like

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Speaker 2: that and then being naturally drawn to movies and other

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Speaker 2: TV shows that had really protagonist's main characters that had

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Speaker 2: backgrounds that I wanted to have one day. And typically

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Speaker 2: back then they served in Vietnam, or you know, they

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Speaker 2: had a Special Operations Backer, their marine snipers, or there

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Speaker 2: were Army special Forces, or they were Navy seals. And

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Speaker 2: now they were like private investigators or they you know,

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Speaker 2: or whatever they were in the eighties and nineties, but

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Speaker 2: they had this background of service, of sacrifice, and gaining

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Speaker 2: this experience that allowed them to then do what they're

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Speaker 2: doing in these.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so this must have been so your life

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Speaker 1: now must be you're like living the dream man. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and I know, having known you for a while, you

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Speaker 1: have a deep affinity for stories, film, TV screenplays, and

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Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who follows you on social media knows that.

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Speaker 1: And now having just you know, got to be a

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Speaker 1: part of an Amazon series for the Terminal List with

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Speaker 1: Chris Pratt by the way. By the way, man, I

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Speaker 1: Melanie and I watched that show and we were blown

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Speaker 1: away by it. It's it's about as good as it

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Speaker 1: gets in terms of you know, making a book into

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Speaker 1: the transition from book to film can be a tough one,

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Speaker 1: but you all did a damn good job and and

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Speaker 1: the attention to detail that went into the tactics. I

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Speaker 1: was blown away because, you know, like, as a military

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Speaker 1: guy like I feel like people like me and you

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Speaker 1: are like watching things like that, even even for the

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Speaker 1: slightest mistake on uniform or the way that they carry

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Speaker 1: their rifle or the way that they rock their kit.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see. I didn't see any mistakes, man, And

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Speaker 1: that's it. That's a that's a testament to to you

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Speaker 1: and the tactical advisors that you had on that show.

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Speaker 1: But let me let me just so I want to

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Speaker 1: get into that show. I mean, because I loved it.

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Speaker 1: But I have to ask you so just because you

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Speaker 1: sort of have an affinity for pop culture and military

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Speaker 1: culture and a desire and maybe that was the catalyst

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Speaker 1: for why you decided to join the military, the Navy,

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Speaker 1: and then you wanted to not just join the Navy,

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Speaker 1: but go into this into the Seals. So when you're

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Speaker 1: in Buds, Jack, I mean, that takes a certain type

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Speaker 1: of personality to make it through that. So not everybody

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Speaker 1: that has like an infinity for the movies and maybe

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Speaker 1: they saw Navy seals portrayed in a movie that they

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Speaker 1: like and they want to be a Navy seal. Most

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Speaker 1: of those dudes don't make it through. And I wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: what are you thinking in those moments when you're laying

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Speaker 1: with what one hundred and fifty pounds log on your

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Speaker 1: chest in the middle of freezing cold water in the

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Speaker 1: Pacific like a sugar cookie, Like what is the mindset

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Speaker 1: that you have to have that makes it through a

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Speaker 1: moment like that, Because it's sirs, heck, just not not

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Speaker 1: an interest in military film, Like, there's something, there's something

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Speaker 1: in the core of who you are that drove you

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Speaker 1: to complete buds and not that drove you to be

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Speaker 1: an exceptional seal sniper and then an officer platoon commander

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Speaker 1: in the Seals. So what's your secret? Man?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess there's a little bit of just

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Speaker 2: not being able to fail because you've told people since

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Speaker 2: you're seven years old that you're going to do this.

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Speaker 2: You can't go wander at home the first week, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so you didn't make it after all these years

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Speaker 2: of saying that this is exactly what you do. So

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that played in a little bit. But you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a test. And I think from the beginning of time, people,

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Speaker 2: young men in particular, have been drawn to some sort

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Speaker 2: of a test, some sort of a crucible, and most

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Speaker 2: societies had something in place where you had to in

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Speaker 2: order to join that tribe, to become a part of

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Speaker 2: that society, be accepted by that society, you go through

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Speaker 2: something and I think that's still in us, even though

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Speaker 2: it's not part of let's say your trajectory or your

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Speaker 2: curriculum to become a citizen. It's still in there. It's

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Speaker 2: still in that DNA. So that's why so many people

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Speaker 2: are drawn to Marine Corps boot camp in particular. That's

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Speaker 2: a big one. Bud's Q course whatever, it is, some

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Speaker 2: sort of a test, and I think that's that's just

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Speaker 2: in the DNA, because it's natural to test yourself at

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Speaker 2: a certain age, and whether that's thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,

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Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen, like somewhere in there, you feel this draw

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Speaker 2: and I think most people feel it, and then a

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Speaker 2: lot of people repress it because today, oh, you can

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Speaker 2: just do whatever whatever you want. You're accepted no matter what. Well,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, you weren't accepted until you did X,

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Speaker 2: Y or Z, until you proved you could become a

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Speaker 2: part of this society because you need to add value

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Speaker 2: to it. Because if you didn't, guess what, you were

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Speaker 2: not going to continue on. Your tribe was not going

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Speaker 2: to continue on, bloodline was not going to continue on.

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Speaker 2: You would be erased from the earth. So if you

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Speaker 2: were not good at hunting, putting food on the table,

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Speaker 2: and the fighting, guess what, you were not long for

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Speaker 2: this earth. And that's still in us somewhere, So I

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Speaker 2: think that was a lot of it. That's what drew me.

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Speaker 2: Popular culture influenced it. My grandfather influenced it. Who didn't

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Speaker 2: make it home. So all this stuff was in me

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Speaker 2: and I was just looking, what is it? What is that?

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Speaker 2: What does that test? And then I found out what

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Speaker 2: seals were early on when I was seven, and it

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Speaker 2: was just like, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: test myself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about warrior cultures and the idea

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Speaker 1: that I do believe, you know. It was just talking

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Speaker 1: about this last night actually, Jack, that that warriors do

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Speaker 1: have a form of collective unconscious you know, that that

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Speaker 1: is passed down from one generation to the next. And

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Speaker 1: the idea that all societies have to protect themselves, you know,

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Speaker 1: and all societies you know, train their warriors or warriors

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Speaker 1: go to fight and bleed for their respective country and

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Speaker 1: then they come home and they propped up into the

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Speaker 1: role of elder warriors, and the role of the elder

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Speaker 1: warriors to help educate political leaders on the direction of

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Speaker 1: their respective nations, but also what it means to go

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Speaker 1: to war should you have to make that tough decision,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the Seals in particular. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think the US military is unique in so many ways,

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Speaker 1: but the Seals have a culture that really is kind

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Speaker 1: of unbelievable. And I think about the first time that

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Speaker 1: we met. Do you remember that.

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Speaker 2: I do on the bus Chris Kyle's memorial.

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Speaker 1: I know, man, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Each other on the bus that I know.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting there in a suit. I'd been out of

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Speaker 1: the military for a few years at that point, and

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Speaker 1: you were still in You're still in your uniform. We

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Speaker 1: just got sat together on the bus completely. It was

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Speaker 1: completely random. And do you remember driving, you know, down

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Speaker 1: that Texas Highway with the thousands upon thousands of people

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Speaker 1: standing on the side of the roads and the bridges

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Speaker 1: that we would go under, with the big fire trucks

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Speaker 1: and the cranes and the American flag hanging from them

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Speaker 1: and people waving like little American flags and stuff. I

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Speaker 1: remember that moment, and I remember watching the Seal team

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Speaker 1: community rally around one of their fallen and and it

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Speaker 1: struck me and obviously it's something that's stuck with me

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Speaker 1: into this day. And obviously meeting you as well. I

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Speaker 1: ended up meeting Chris Kyle, like I didn't serve with him.

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Speaker 1: I never knew him when we were in uniform. But

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Speaker 1: his book was published by the same publishing houses as

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Speaker 1: out Lablatune, and his book came out in January, I

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Speaker 1: think in twenty twelve. My book came out in February

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Speaker 1: or March or something like that. I can't quite remember.

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Speaker 1: But he and I became friends through that process, because

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Speaker 1: you go from you know, seal or nothing burger, army

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Speaker 1: infantry captain, out of the military, not really ensure what

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Speaker 1: the hell you want to do with your life. All

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you're publishing a book, and it's like

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Speaker 1: drinking from a fire hose. So we leaned on each

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Speaker 1: other in those moments, and I think we became friends.

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Speaker 1: And when we lost him a year later, obviously it

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Speaker 1: was a devastating loss for the country, but certainly the

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Speaker 1: Seal team community, and I saw it down there, you know,

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Speaker 1: as look, I'm an Army guy, you know, I served

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Speaker 1: and worked with the Seals during my time in active service,

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Speaker 1: but I was never really exposed to their culture until

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Speaker 1: that moment. And sitting there on that bus next to

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Speaker 1: you and watching how you respected one of your fallen

365
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Speaker 1: at his funeral, and and slamming the trident into the coffin,

366
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Speaker 1: you know, with the palm of your hand. And I

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Speaker 1: was blown away by that man. And and frankly, I

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Speaker 1: was blown away by by you and and some of

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Speaker 1: the questions that you were asking, because I think, if

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Speaker 1: I remember correctly, Jack, you were transitioning or about to

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Speaker 1: transition out at that point.

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Speaker 2: I'd made my decision at that point yet, But my

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Speaker 2: decision was made. I think I was at BUDS at

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Speaker 2: the time. I was an operations officer.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So my time leading guys tactically down range had

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Speaker 2: ended about a year earlier. And after that, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you stay in uh you know, people look to

379
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Speaker 2: colonels and in generals and you know they well, you know,

380
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Speaker 2: as AD four, that's gonna be, if you're lucky, that's

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Speaker 2: the last time you're gonna do tactical operations leading guys

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Speaker 2: on the battlefield. Uh. After that, you're gonna go to

383
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Speaker 2: a staff job somewhere, maybe another one that you're gonna

384
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Speaker 2: circle back around and be a team CEO commanding officer,

385
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Speaker 2: which sounds sounds great, but uh.

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Speaker 1: Probably probably isn't like a staff officer, right.

387
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a manager point I mean redless. You know

388
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Speaker 2: what you did in the past, you're now a manager,

389
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Speaker 2: but you're still a leader. You still set the tone,

390
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Speaker 2: uh and all that stuff. But you're not going out

391
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Speaker 2: kicking indoors with the guys, nor do they want you to,

392
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Speaker 2: because now you've been in staff jobs for the last

393
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Speaker 2: four years. And uh and probably if you're an officer

394
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Speaker 2: and weren't enlisted first, maybe uh, and didn't augment your

395
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Speaker 2: training on the side. Uh, you're not a gun guy. Uh.

396
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Speaker 2: You know, they don't want you out there on the

397
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Speaker 2: battlefield with them. You stay back in that tactical operations center,

398
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Speaker 2: allocate assets, make sure that there's air cove or overhead,

399
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Speaker 2: you know, you manage that talk that tactical operations center.

400
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Speaker 2: And that's not what I came in to do.

401
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Speaker 1: So I was.

402
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Speaker 2: I was good. I was at the end of my

403
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Speaker 2: time actually having been enlisted first and then an offstrar,

404
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: had a nice run. I got very lucky coming in

405
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Speaker 2: when I did September eleventh happening, you know when it did,

406
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Speaker 2: and I just got some experience because of that timing.

407
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Speaker 2: But point being, yeah, it was time to get out,

408
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Speaker 2: and plus my family needed me. As you know, we

409
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 2: have a special needs middle child. My wife was taking

410
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Speaker 2: care of him because I'm downrange or I'm training, and

411
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Speaker 2: that pendulum, as you know, has to be on the

412
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Speaker 2: side of the team of the guys, because that's what

413
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Speaker 2: you owe them, that's what you owe families, the country,

414
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Speaker 2: the mission, and that's just how it is. That has

415
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Speaker 2: to come first. And my wife understood that. We articulated

416
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Speaker 2: that to one another, her understanding and me being able

417
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Speaker 2: to articulate that, and she got it. So it wasn't like,

418
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Speaker 2: why is the team always come first? Because she knew

419
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Speaker 2: why the team had to come first because those guys'

420
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 2: lives are in your hands downrange. So that's just how

421
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Speaker 2: it was. But when I got back from that deployment,

422
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 2: look around, take a breath here, look it towards the future. Okay,

423
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Speaker 2: now it's time to get out. Still in a few

424
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Speaker 2: years left in, but but it was time to get out.

425
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Speaker 2: So when I met you, I had made that decision.

426
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I told anybody. Yeah, really as

427
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Speaker 2: soon as I got back and.

428
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Speaker 1: I could sense it, you know, I could sense it

429
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Speaker 1: with like you know, having been in those shoes myself.

430
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Speaker 1: I feel like from one warrior to another. We can

431
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Speaker 1: we can sense when when it's about time to hang

432
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: the rifle over the mantle, so to speak. Yeah, but

433
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: what I'm yeah, exactly exactly exactly. So like for you, Jack,

434
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: when you decided to make that transition, you know, what

435
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: was that like for you? Because so many men and

436
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: women in uniform they join and they feel, you know,

437
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: a deep seated sense of service to their country, and

438
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: then they joined the military and then they train as

439
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: a you know, they learned to train as a collective,

440
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,239
Speaker 1: to shoot, move and communicate together as a team. And

441
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 1: then sometimes you go to war and you know, you fight,

442
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: bleed and you die together as a team. And then

443
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: you come home and all of a sudden, you know,

444
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: get you decide to get out, retire PCs, move back home, whatever,

445
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you're on your own. And

446
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: so it sort of runs contrary to everything that you're

447
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: trained to do and be a part of a team.

448
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: So so what was that transition like for you? And

449
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: and really how I knew in the moments when we

450
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: had those conversations that that you were going to be fine,

451
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: because I feel like you were laser focused on the

452
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: next thing. Jack but but what was that transition like

453
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: for you and how did you identify what exactly was

454
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: you wanted to do? You know, and I'm curious what

455
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: that journey was like.

456
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was lucky and that I knew

457
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 2: what I wanted to do, and that from a very

458
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 2: early age, I know I wanted to serve my country

459
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: in uniform, specifically as a seal. And then I knew

460
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 2: that after that I was going to write thrillers because

461
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: I'm reading all these books growing up. I'm reading Nelson

462
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 2: de mill and David Morrell and AJ Quinnell and JC

463
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: Pollock and Mark Olden and Stephen Hunter and Tom Flancy,

464
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 2: and I'm reading all these guys and because I'm figuring, Okay,

465
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 2: if Nelson de Mille says something about the military, or

466
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: Dave Morel says something about seals or special forces, they

467
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: must have had they must have some inside information, because

468
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: back then you couldn't just jump online and check it.

469
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: You had to read the nonfiction stuff, of which there

470
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: wasn't very much in the early eighties. And then there

471
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: were these thrillers that have these protagonists with backgrounds that

472
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: I wanted in real life. So I'm reading these things,

473
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: and I'm loving them, and I'm reading them also through

474
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: the lens of like a childhood type innocence, in that

475
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: I haven't built up any cynicism really yet. You know,

476
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: it's sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, and I don't.

477
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: I don't have that. There's less filters, I guess, and

478
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: I'm just enjoying them. I'm enjoying the magic of being

479
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: in these pages. And so I just knew, Hey, when

480
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 2: I get out, I'm going to write these thrillers and

481
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be a number one New York Times best

482
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: selling author and it's going to be made the movie

483
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 2: or what else. And I just thought, that's just that's

484
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna do. And I didn't waste any bandmith

485
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: worried about that not happening or worried about not making

486
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 2: it into the seal teams. Like, I just knew, this

487
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: is difficult. That's why I want to do it. And

488
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 2: then I'm not gonna worry about what if I don't

489
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: make it or what about eighty percent of people don't

490
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: make it? Oh geez no, because that's I've just wasted

491
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: three seconds right there where I wasn't doing a push

492
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: up wasn't doing a pull up, wasn't reading something about

493
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: warfare to make myself a better operator in the future.

494
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: So I didn't really worry about that sort of thing.

495
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: So I was lucky and that I knew what I

496
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: wanted to do. But then also when I was in

497
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 2: that position at BUDS at seal training, when I met you,

498
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: I saw a lot of people transition out And you

499
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: didn't really see that in the regular teams because you're

500
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: so focused on training up for deployment. So someone gets out,

501
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: they're essentially they're just gone. But at BUDS, now you're

502
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: taking a break. You're not tak taking a break, taking

503
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: a breath. And then as the operations officer, which is

504
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: like for people listening, it's like the COO of a company,

505
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: like day to day type operations. The CEO would be

506
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 2: like the CEO of a company. But I'm getting calls

507
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: from people saying, hey, buddy, you know, can I bring

508
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: my new boss here? He wants a tour of the plane,

509
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: you know, he saw the movie or whatever. They no problem,

510
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 2: and so I was setting up all these calls. But

511
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: as I was doing that, I was like, these guys

512
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: can't let it go. They have transitioned out. They have

513
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: new lives, but they can't let this go. And by

514
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: letting go, I don't mean like forgetting about it and

515
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 2: starting a new No, it's a foundation, just like anything

516
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: else in life, no matter what, whether you're in the

517
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: military or not, you know, your experience forms this foundation

518
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 2: upon which to build going forward. A lot of people

519
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: that had a hard time like pulling that foot out

520
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: of this world special operations and moving forward. So I

521
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 2: just recognized that and realized, Hey, when I get out,

522
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: we're going to make a physical and psychological break by

523
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: moving somewhere else. So we moved to Park City, Utah,

524
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: from Cornado, California. So it's going to be physical and psychological.

525
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people stay behind in

526
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: some of these same areas. See go to restaurants are

527
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: the same bars. I get it, like all these you

528
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: so you're seeing people and it's just this touch point

529
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: that you continue to have that maybe might be not

530
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: be so healthy if you are trying to move forward

531
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: and build on that out they try to come back in,

532
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: or they go contract, or they they're not sure what

533
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: they want to do, and they start floating around a

534
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: little bit. So I was lucky and then I knew

535
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: exactly what I wanted to do. And also I was naive.

536
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: I didn't really realize how hard it was. I just

537
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: you know, people tell you and they look at you

538
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: when you tell them you want to be a seal,

539
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: they give you a look like okay, yeah, the.

540
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: Same for you.

541
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: Author. It's like that same I know, exact same look.

542
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: And so I as you use that as as fuel.

543
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're surrounded by people. I mean seriously, that that

544
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: is so true, Jack, Like you're surrounded by people who

545
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: tell you that you can't do something.

546
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: You know.

547
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: I think as you spoke, man, I'm just sitting here

548
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: like thinking, that's when you braid your why your purpose

549
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: with a mission? Right, Because when you're in, you have

550
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: a mission, right, you're clearly focused on where you have

551
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: to go on the horizon and getting your people there,

552
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: you know, And when men and women get out of

553
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: the military, they don't have that mission, and sometimes they

554
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: languish and they wander and they're not really sure what

555
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: they're supposed to do. So I think it's but it's twofold, right, Like,

556
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: it's not just about having another mission, it's about braiding

557
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: that mission with your life's purpose. That really is the

558
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: rocket fuel, man, And I feel like that's the sweet spot,

559
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: that's the magic sauce. And I feel like you tapped

560
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: into that. And I love the idea of making a

561
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: psychological and a physical break, Like you're leaving warrior culture.

562
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: You're not leaving it behind entirely. It's forever going to

563
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: be a part of who you are. But yeah, but

564
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: you're taking that mindset and that mission and that purpose

565
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: and moving somewhere else and figuring out what you want

566
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: to do it for you it writing books, man, And

567
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: so when you wrote the Terminal List, like like, where

568
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,479
Speaker 1: did where the hell did that story come from? Because

569
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: it because it's I think it's like it's when you're

570
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: a creative person, right, I mean not all military guys

571
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: are creative, super creative people, right. You know, it's writing

572
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: a story is an art form. It's not dissimilar to

573
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: like painting a painting or something like that, you know,

574
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: and when you craft the story. I think that like

575
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: the simplest stories are the most profound and the ones

576
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: that stick with us the longest. Like like I read

577
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: the Most Dangerous Game when I was a kid, and

578
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: I remember that every aspect of that story even today,

579
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: and it was it was just so simple, but it

580
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: was beautiful in that as well. And the Terminal List

581
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: has that that type of a feel to me.

582
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, it's that most dangerous game inform my

583
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: third novel, Savage Son, which is actually the one I

584
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: wanted to write first, but I knew the characters weren't

585
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: developed enough to start with that one. I had to

586
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: come out with the Terminal List first. But when you're

587
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: talking about mission and purpose, I think there is there's

588
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: things that I that I recognized while I was at

589
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: Buds by seeing people transition, uh, knowing exactly what I

590
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: wanted to do. But I think it's about mission and passion.

591
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: So my mission is to take care of my family

592
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: and ensure that our special needs middle child has a

593
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: lifetime of full time care. That's my mission. My passion

594
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: is writing, So putting those together gave me a purpose

595
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: going forward. So that's how I thought of it. While

596
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: I was still sitting there at my desk and in

597
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: the Sealed Teams, I was like, I kind of felt

598
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: like remember in uh Spy Game with Brad Pitt, when

599
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: when Robert Redford trying to recruit him, so I.

600
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: Put in the position.

601
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just like that's what I felt like. I

602
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: was sitting there at the desk and I'm like, oh,

603
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, I should probably stick it out for like

604
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: a couple more years here, uh and uh and and

605
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 2: use this time.

606
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

607
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: And then I got to drop my papers. And for

608
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: those who have been in the military, you know, when

609
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: you drop your papers, you kind of go into another

610
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: pile like, oh, geez, Okay, this guy's getting out. Okay,

611
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: so now he's not on this track anymore. Uh. Now

612
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: you go in the pile where your job becomes to

613
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: get out of this gigantic bureaucracy. So get read out

614
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: of secret programs, go to dental, go to medical, transition

615
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: and whatever you have to like get signed off and

616
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: checked off. But because it's the military, you go to

617
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: these places at first and stand in a long line

618
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: to make your appointment to then come back and actually

619
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: get the class, go to dentel, go to medical, and

620
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: then come back for whatever follow ups. So it seems

621
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: like it would take like three days. It's kind of

622
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: like jump school, you know, it's three days crammed into

623
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: three weeks is jump school. But same thing with getting

624
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: out is kind of how I felt. So I had

625
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: some time to work on what I wanted to do,

626
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: and I knew exactly what that was, and so I

627
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: started by writing out like ten fifteen, I'm no sorry,

628
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: the seventy eight nine, ten different one page executive summaries

629
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: of different different themes and different storylines. And I really

630
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: want to start with Savage Sun because of the most

631
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: dangerous game. Really, it's a dangerous game. It's blood, it's

632
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: a rogue mail.

633
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: I love those are also good there.

634
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: Those all informed that third story of Savage Son. So

635
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: I wanted to start there, but I knew I couldn't

636
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: jump in right there, So I started writing the terminal

637
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: list and uh so I just knew exactly what it was.

638
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: But was What really helped me is that from such

639
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: an early age, I knew what I wanted to do.

640
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: So I had built that foundation on that creative side

641
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: by reading all those masters, and back then I was

642
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: just I was just reading them for fun. I was

643
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: just I was just this magic from these pages. I

644
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: love these stories, knew what I was going to do that,

645
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: but I was really giving myself an early education in

646
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: the art of storytelling. Without going back today reading one

647
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: of these classics from nineteen eighty three. But now I

648
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: have this all these barriers in place, and I have

649
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: all the cynicism built up, and I have I have

650
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: this life experience.

651
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: You've lived a little bit, yeah.

652
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: Lived, yet you know I was just like, oh, this

653
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: is amazing as I'm going through these books. So I

654
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: think that really helped in making that transition, because because

655
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: I had that education, and it wasn't an education to

656
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: sit in a class, it was an education from the

657
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: fans perspective. And now here I am now applying both

658
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: the nonfiction that I've read my whole life, studying warfare,

659
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: the experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, so I can bring

660
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: those emotions and feelings. I don't have to go find

661
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: a sniper from Ramadi and let's say two thousand and five,

662
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, sit down with them and then

663
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: ask them, Hey, what was it like to be in

664
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: a hide site and pull the trigger or what I'm

665
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: like okay? And then I write down those notes of

666
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: those answers, and then maybe I filter those through other

667
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: interviews that I've done, books that I've read, movies that

668
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 2: I've seen, and then apply it to a fictional narrative

669
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: knows all coming from my heart and soul directly onto

670
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: the page, what that felt like, or what it felt

671
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: like to get ambushed in Baghdad, and then I can

672
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: take that and apply it to an ambush that my

673
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: character is in Los Angeles, California, and even though it's

674
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: totally made up, the feelings and emotions are real. And

675
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: it's also very therapeutic to do that, both on a

676
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: personal level and then also when you're dealing with bureaucracies,

677
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: when you're looking up at these senior level officials, leader

678
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: leaders in quotes, elected representatives, military officials, whatever it might be,

679
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: who really didn't understand the nature of the conflict in

680
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: which we were engaged, and they had twenty years to

681
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: figure it out. We had examples from the right of

682
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: the Soviet experience from seventy nine to eighty nine in

683
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: Afghanistan in particular. We didn't even have to go back

684
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: to the three British incursions in the eighteen hundred early

685
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds ord to Genghis Khan or the Alexander the Great.

686
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: We had more recent experience, and then we had our own,

687
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 2: and then we neglected to take those lessons and apply

688
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: them going forward as a wisdom. We kept reliving the

689
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: same year, we kept changing our focus. Now it's a

690
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 2: war on opium. Now it's this, now it's that. And

691
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: we spent twenty years there, and that's a tough thing

692
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: to deal with as bad as you know, especially when

693
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: we've lost friends down there.

694
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,959
Speaker 1: I mean, Jackson, can I get.

695
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: To weave that into the novels? And once again very therapeutic.

696
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: Well, you know you're The Afghan War and the withdrawal

697
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: from afghanistanus in the news today and I have to

698
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: tell you, every time I see it, it just it

699
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: just pissed up me. Off Man and the idea that

700
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: over a year later, after the disastrous extraction, if you

701
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: even want to call it that, from Afghanistan, a year later,

702
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: there are still Americans trapped there. And this is why

703
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: when we talk about the role of the elder warrior

704
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: and the idea that people who have seen the fight

705
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: up close and personal come home and educate our policymakers

706
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: on what it means to go to war and what

707
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: that sacrifice will look like on the opposite end, because

708
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: the reality is is like when the war is over

709
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: to them, the war is just beginning for people like

710
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: us and so many of the tens of thousands of

711
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: Americans sons and daughters who fought in those conflicts. And

712
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: that's why to me, if our policymakers, and this isn't

713
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: political Democrat or Republican, if we're sending america sons and

714
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: daughters into the fight, well, we have a moral obligation

715
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: as a country to win with a clearcut mission and

716
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: end state. And that clearly did not happen in Afghania.

717
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: And I remember you and I actually when I was

718
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: in the thick of the Senate run back in twenty

719
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: twenty one, you and I actually texted about the Afghan

720
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: withdrawal and what was going on there and how disastrous

721
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: it was because the crazy predicament that guys like you

722
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: and I found ourselves in. Not just me and you,

723
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: guys like Jay Redman and Tim Kennedy and Nick Palumashano,

724
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: they found themselves over in Afghanistan, boots on the ground

725
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: a week after the suicide bomber attack in Afghanistan tried

726
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: to evac our allies. And I remember thinking to myself, well,

727
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: how the hell does that fall to private citizens? Like

728
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: if that's not an indictment on big government. I don't

729
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: know what is. I don't know what is. And I

730
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: remember in those moments, like I actually wrote to Jensaki,

731
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: who is then the White House Press Secretary, and to

732
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: her credits she wrote me back about passing you know,

733
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: the information of people who were my interpreters in Afghanistan, who,

734
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: of course, when Afghanistan collapsed in on itself like Dying Star,

735
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: they all wrote to me immediately like please help, and

736
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: I just you ask yourself, Jack, you know, I know

737
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,479
Speaker 1: I have, like, what the hell was it all for?

738
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: If it was just going to collapse on itself like that?

739
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: Do you find yourself asking those questions?

740
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: Oh? I certainly certainly do, and it's a tough one

741
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: to answer, And I think I try to do that

742
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: in the pages of these novels, even though they're fiction.

743
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: It allows me a chance to explore some of those

744
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: questions and then you can do something about it. That's

745
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: the great thing about fiction, about commercial fiction, about movies,

746
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: because things you can't really impact in real life, well

747
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: guess what you can have resolution in the pages of

748
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 2: a thriller, or by sending down and watching a TV show,

749
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 2: or in a movie and so you get this sense

750
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: of satisfaction from being able to see something come fortull

751
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: circle and having the good guy win. And that doesn't

752
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 2: necessarily happen in real life, but I do think about

753
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: it because of so many just because of that sacrifice,

754
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: twenty years of sacrifice, and this is how it ends up.

755
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: You had twenty years to prepare for this moment. And

756
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: that's why the American citizen who has no touch point

757
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: with the military, never read a book on strategy or

758
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: tactics or geopolitics, could look at what happened and say,

759
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 2: because they have common sense and say, wait, what are

760
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: we doing here? Why do we give up this place

761
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: called Bogram That seems like we had some standoff distance,

762
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: maybe we owned the terrain, we had an airfield. And

763
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: then you exactly in this place in Kabul where you

764
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: have these mass crowds that are I mean, you don't

765
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 2: need to have you don't need to know anything about tactics,

766
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: anything about geopolitics, nothing about the military, and you can

767
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: look a common sense exactly. That's one of the things

768
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 2: that George Marshall did in the run up to World

769
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 2: War Two. During World War Two, he had a list

770
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: of criteria for leaders, and one of those things was

771
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: having common sense. Carl mccloschwitz, same thing. He's the most important,

772
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 2: the most important attribute to a battlefield leader was to

773
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: have common sense. And that's why you could look at this,

774
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: apply common sense to the withdrawal, to the whole twenty years.

775
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: But let's just talk specifically about the withdrawal, and that's

776
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: why people were so upset about this. And yeah, America's

777
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: sons and daughters once again pay the price by being

778
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: put there by people who didn't understand the nature of

779
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 2: the conflict that which we were in, which we were engaged,

780
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: stand up to bad decisions. I don't know, it's just

781
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: so hard to even contemplate. It makes me so angry.

782
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: I know, I could tell man and like this is

783
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: this is why you talk about like the war starting

784
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: for men and women when they come home when the

785
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 1: conflict is over. You've been in those shoes. You know

786
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: what that's like. And we talked about the importance of culture,

787
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: right and it's impact on our society. What I appreciate about,

788
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, not just your books, but also the Terminal

789
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: List Amazon show, was that it portrays our servicemen and

790
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: women in a strong positive light. There's this perception in

791
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: our in American culture of when warriors come home, like

792
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: we're all broken. And you even see that reflected in

793
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: our statues, like of warriors who are like looking forlorn

794
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: up at the sky, like we're somehow lost. We're not.

795
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 1: We still have a mission to protect this country when

796
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: we come home. And what I like about the terminal

797
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: list is how it shapes our culture and not just that,

798
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: how it shows post traumatic stress and what soldiers grapple with,

799
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: and how it's not a debilitating disorder post ramat You

800
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: could have post traumatic stress from a car accident, but

801
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: it shows that, you know, I think in a positive way,

802
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: that our warriors are strong and will always be strong.

803
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: That there is a distinction between those who are boots

804
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: on the ground doing the fighting and the bureaucracy that

805
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: sends them to war. And I just like that it

806
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: shows some of the struggles that our men and women

807
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: have when they come home, because it's so important. You know,

808
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: most of this country, Jack, like as you said, like

809
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: who maybe don't have a touch point with the military.

810
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: They don't know what it's like to put that uniform

811
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: on and defend freedom, and and that's not an indictment.

812
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: I think that's a strength of our country, the fact

813
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: that most Americans are only concerned they have freedom, they

814
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 1: can live their life the way that they want. I mean,

815
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: it's sort of like the double edged sword of freedom

816
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: is that you know, Americans enjoy their freedom and with

817
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: every passing generation, maybe get further and further away from

818
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: the warriors to protect it, right.

819
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: Or you don't have to invest as much.

820
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: Exactly prior or exactly.

821
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: That generation before then and before that. So when you

822
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 2: invest in something, then you have ownership in it. And

823
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: I think that's why Israel is so strong, because there

824
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: is that national service. They've invested. They don't have a choice.

825
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 2: You're investing in this thing, and if you had to

826
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: invest in this country right now, I think I think

827
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: that's why we're aheaded well. I hate to be I

828
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 2: try to remain hopeful, especially publicly, of course, because of

829
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 2: the direction that we're headed right now is because most

830
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 2: people have not had to invest in this It's been

831
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: a take. It's been a take from government, take from society.

832
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: It's been benefiting from the sacrifice of generations paths so

833
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: that you can have these choices, but you haven't had

834
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: to invest in it yet unless you join the military

835
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: or you do something else like that, where you're investing

836
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: in this thing called America. So I think there is

837
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: huge benefits toward that investment, whether it's serving the military

838
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: or something else, but that investment piece. I think that's

839
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 2: an important part of being a citizen, is investing because

840
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: you got to make it better, you'd had value to

841
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: the society instead of just take, take, take, And now

842
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: I think there's a large portion that don't recognize that.

843
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: And if you study your history, that's why if you

844
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: didn't serve in the military or do something else, studying

845
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: your history is so important because then that gives you

846
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: an appreciation for what you have today. And I think

847
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: it helped build resiliency also because you're reading about these things.

848
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, look what these people had to do

849
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: back then. I don't have to do that today. Wow,

850
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: that's incredible. I'm grateful that they did that. But without

851
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: that reading, without that study, without that understanding of history,

852
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 2: you're just going from one thing to another. And now

853
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 2: it's this that you're competing with, which is just fifteen

854
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 2: seconds here, fifteen seconds here, a phone. There's so many

855
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: distractions that keep you from opening a book studying that

856
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: history of being able to apply it to the situations

857
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: and the issues of today. So we're in a tough

858
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 2: position as aside.

859
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: I think you're right, man. I mean, if you think

860
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: if you walked into a neighborhood at the height of

861
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: World War Two, you'd be hard You'd be hard pressed

862
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: to meet somebody who's not affected by the fight, who

863
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: did not have somebody a family that did not have

864
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: somebody directly involved, whether it's someone downrange doing the fighting, deployed,

865
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: or someone at home working to support the mission. And

866
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: I feel like with every passing generation, a smaller percentage

867
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: of Americans have volunteered to serve this country. To now

868
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: it's like something zero point four percent of the country

869
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: has served during the longest period of war our nation's history. Jack,

870
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: And I think that's why it's you know, books like yours,

871
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: shows like The Terminal List are so important, and you

872
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: want to talk about an investment in our country. Chris

873
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 1: Prattman and how he invested into the role of James

874
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: Reese man, like you could tell he was, how committed

875
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: was he because my read was like he was in it.

876
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: He was in it. He believed in it. He was

877
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: he was a true believer and he was a savage

878
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: son in the role itself.

879
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he crushed it. He crushed it.

880
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: I think he did great man.

881
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he has his best friend is Jared Shaw,

882
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 2: who gave Chris the book before it even hits shelves.

883
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: So he has this touch point with the military. When

884
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: he did Zero Dark thirty came down to Buds ran

885
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: the obstacle. Course, you know, met the guy and all

886
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: his family history in the military, So he was he

887
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: was all into this role, all into this project. And uh, yeah,

888
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how we were working on the scripts,

889
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 2: how much was going to be on his shoulders because

890
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 2: I didn't have this is my first experience.

891
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it.

892
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now that I see how much he had to do,

893
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, and he never complained, not once. And

894
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 2: it was very physical. But it's not just the physical side.

895
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: It's showing up every day and setting the tone for

896
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: the whole rest of the fart in three hundred and

897
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: fifty people on set every day, and so he always

898
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: and he's a wonderful person. So he's just himself. But

899
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: there's a lot asked of him personally and professionally.

900
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: I was I was watching I was watching you stock

901
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: him and I'm like, oh my god, is that Jack

902
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: in that episode? Look at him moving.

903
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 2: But if this was real life, things would go down

904
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: a little differently.

905
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: Here you just got capped. You got capped in the car,

906
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: I know, he throws the car in reverse.

907
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: And the operator, Yeah, maybe I was just knocked out

908
00:45:59,520 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 2: or something.

909
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: Come back. You got a rep to keep here, man.

910
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 2: I know. But it was what was really cool. So

911
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to do the car crash when he backs

912
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 2: into me, but they wouldn't let me do it, so

913
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: that a stuntman do it. But the guy who doubled me,

914
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: Mick Rogers who doubled Mel Gibson and Lethal Weapon jumping

915
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: off the tower handcuffed and the business guy in that movie.

916
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: So I got to be doubled by like one of

917
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: Lethal Weapon was a hugely influential movie growing up for me.

918
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

919
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that was that was great. And then got

920
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 2: to be in the car and what was really cool

921
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 2: to see how they do it, like how they put

922
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 2: those bullet holes in, is they have these little mortars

923
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: that are hidden behind the dash and so they send

924
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: a little ball bearing up into the glass from the car.

925
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: So even if someone's shooting in, it's sending a ball bearing,

926
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: so it shatters the glass.

927
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: How do they do that? Is it like a It's

928
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: like almost like a claymar.

929
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone's got the you know, remote firing device over

930
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: here on an iPad and Chris is firing. They hit

931
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: it boom, boom boom, And so I have sunglasses on

932
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: there so the glass doesn't come back in your face,

933
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, from from doing that. But that was pretty

934
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 2: cool to see, kind of the movie magic, the Hollywood sauce.

935
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 2: But you know, we tried to make it have this

936
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: this authentic to touch point with everything that we did,

937
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: and of course there is going to be you know,

938
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: some Hollywood here or there, but really we were trying

939
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: to capture the mindset of a modern day warrior, so

940
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: that all came back to that that that touch so

941
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 2: that you could sit down and if you are watching

942
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: it with your experience, you could sit there on the couch,

943
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 2: have a beer and you're watching this thing and say,

944
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: oh man, these guys put in the work, you know,

945
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: even if there's things here.

946
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: And there that might not be you know, and that

947
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 1: was that was clear.

948
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: They put in the work, and they tried to get

949
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: it as authentic and as real as possible. And the

950
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: actors put in the work, and Taylor Kitsch is rocking

951
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: that shotgun and he's really he's trying to get it right.

952
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: He's putting in all this time energy and effort trying

953
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: to figure this thing out and working with another Seal

954
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 2: buddy of mine, Raymondoza, who does Hollywood technical advising.

955
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: Now.

956
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: But these guys, they put in the effort and they

957
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: put in them.

958
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 1: And it had everything Jack like the Terminal list had everything,

959
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: had had the beach of saltwhere in Syria right when

960
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,439
Speaker 1: they're in like sewers like that. That just the way

961
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: that like what I'm looking for is like, how's the

962
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: team moving right? Like just the tactical movements were spot on.

963
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: It had escape and evasion where James Reese gets capped

964
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: in the shoulder and he's running through the mountain and

965
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: falling off the mountain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew it.

966
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: I knew yeah in the scene in the in the

967
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,919
Speaker 2: episode before that, in episode five, but the first one

968
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 2: the Seal friends to come in and actually play seals.

969
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 2: It's awesome show, so you didn't have to teach the movement. Uh,

970
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: they were moving as a team through there because they've

971
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 2: done it before.

972
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: I mean it was clear. And then you even had

973
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: military operations. He had mount military operations on rban terrain.

974
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: Like it had a little bit of everything. And I

975
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: think in addition to all of that, it had a story.

976
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: And when I talked about stories that are elegant and simple,

977
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: it's like you always knew exactly what James Reese was

978
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: doing at any given moment. He had a list. It

979
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: was right there and at any point in time in

980
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: the story, anytime there was an ancillary story with with

981
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: ancillary characters, and maybe maybe like James rees isn't on

982
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: the scene, you knew that he was moving out in

983
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: support of that mission with that list. And that's what

984
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: I think I liked about that story the most, is

985
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: that you always knew exactly what the main character was doing,

986
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: even when he wasn't on the page, even when he

987
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: wasn't on the screen.

988
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 2: You know, I love it, love it. Yeah, I wrote

989
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: it and so you could grab it. Very intentionally. I

990
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: wanted to write it at a couple different levels. I

991
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: wanted someone to walk through the airport, see it in

992
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: a Hudson News, grab it off the shelf, and have

993
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: a great just a spy thriller, political thriller, and have

994
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: a good experience reading it, and okay, you escape for

995
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: a few hours on your flight or on the beach

996
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 2: and awesome. But then a little deeper. It's about really

997
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: someone who becomes the insurgent, who becomes the terrorist, becomes

998
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: the person that he'd been fighting. And the time I

999
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: wrote it was sixteen years at war, but let's say

1000
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: twenty now, So he becomes the person that he'd been

1001
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: fighting for those lots. He makes this transition, and I

1002
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: do that through well having him have to raid the

1003
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: armory of his enemy. So he goes in the book,

1004
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: and we had a scene like that in the show.

1005
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: We had to take it out for time purposes. But

1006
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: he goes in there and taking all the weapons from

1007
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 2: the armory, so he's essentially stealing those weapons to go

1008
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: use them in his in this mission and this uh uh,

1009
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 2: this is this mission of vengeance. His hair starts getting longer,

1010
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: his beard starts growing. We kept that part in the show,

1011
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: so he kept his beard and his hair real time

1012
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: throughout the whole series to show that he's now he's

1013
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 2: transitioning into this into this insurgent, goes from having a

1014
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 2: uniform to not having a uniform, like all those all

1015
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 2: those things visually, so even if you don't really recognize that,

1016
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: it's still subliminal, it's still in the novel.

1017
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: It's still of course, I mean, those are the best

1018
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: types of main You talk about the hero's journey, right,

1019
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: and to me, those are the heroes that that could

1020
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: also be the villain at any given time if maybe

1021
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: he was one degree more to the you know what

1022
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: I mean, the same thing with villains, like villains that

1023
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: like where you where you understand what the villain is

1024
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: doing in the mission of the antagonist, right and in

1025
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 1: the back of your mind maybe you even find yourself

1026
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: agreeing with it, with that mission, but disagreeing with his methods.

1027
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: Those are the best, yes, totally totally.

1028
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: Confusion almost you know, yeah, a little bit make them

1029
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: question a couple of things here and there, but even that,

1030
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: and then the third level really that I wanted that

1031
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: maybe people will recognize, maybe not, is that this is

1032
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 2: someone who's bringing the wars from Iracqan and Afghanistan back

1033
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 2: to the front doors of people who are sending young

1034
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 2: men and women to their deaths for twenty years. So

1035
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 2: there's three different levels that I was thinking as I

1036
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,959
Speaker 2: wrote that, and I wanted to have those in there,

1037
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: whether people recognize it or not. And some people that

1038
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,479
Speaker 2: will definitely recognize those three different levels.

1039
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that you drew the distinction between

1040
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: the war fighter and the suits that are sending people

1041
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: to war. You know that that's that's so important.

1042
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: Of those suits wear uniforms exactly.

1043
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: Exactly, no doubt about it. And I mean people don't

1044
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: realize gi government issue.

1045
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: You know, the military was not too excited to help

1046
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 2: out with his production. Yeah, we're not any help with it.

1047
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: That's well, you didn't need it, man, it was locked

1048
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 1: on target. I thought it was great and so okay,

1049
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,959
Speaker 1: So I don't want to I want to respect your time,

1050
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: but I tell me how I know that being a

1051
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: father and being a husband is so unbelievably important to you,

1052
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: and I think that's part of the reason why you

1053
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: serve this country for so long, because you want to

1054
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: make sure that I don't want to put words in

1055
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: your mouth, but you want to protect them and make

1056
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: sure that they inherit a country that's free Jack, I

1057
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: know that about you. Now you're out and you're living

1058
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 1: the dream. How has this sort of new mission, new purpose,

1059
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: new career path. How is your family handling all that? Man?

1060
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: And like you said, I know you have a special

1061
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: needs kid and everything that you do is in support

1062
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: of taking care of that little guy, you know, And

1063
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: so how has your family reacted to all this?

1064
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, well, first off, the kids are completely unimpressed

1065
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 2: by anything. I know.

1066
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: I I totally that goes.

1067
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, so it's exactly the same position you're in

1068
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 2: as far as that stuff goes. They were impressed for

1069
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: a little bit, like when Chris Pratt does a FaceTime

1070
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 2: with them or does a video and sens to me

1071
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: and I can show them like for happy.

1072
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: They're like, whoa, that's star Lord start.

1073
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: Exactly for like three seconds maybe, and then it's back

1074
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 2: to okay, you know, bed and completely impressive, especially with

1075
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: a seventeen year old in the house now. So at seventeen,

1076
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 2: fourteen and twelve are the ages now, So yeah, first off,

1077
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: there everybody's completely unimpressed by by any of this. But uh,

1078
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: you know what I I think, like for my wife,

1079
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 2: I think it was a little bit of I guess

1080
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: both of us didn't realize it was a startup. Like

1081
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 2: I thought it was just writing, and I thought being

1082
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: an author is only writing. And that's my impression reading

1083
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 2: all those books growing up, you don't realize that there's

1084
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: more behind it. And back then there wasn't as much

1085
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 2: that you could do because there weren't these platforms out

1086
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: there at the time. You had to really rely on

1087
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 2: your publicist at a at a publishing house. You had

1088
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: to rely on that marketing department at a publishing house.

1089
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 2: And who are they going to promote? Probably the authors

1090
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: with last names like Patterson, because guess what, they're like

1091
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 2: the Avengers. They pay for everyone else. Luckily, my book paid,

1092
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: you know, was profitable right out of the gate, which

1093
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 2: is unusual for a first novel in particular. But now

1094
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: you have more options out there if you want to

1095
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: build it as a business, and so that's what I did,

1096
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 2: so I embraced it. I didn't really realize until maybe

1097
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: a month or two, I think, before the book came out.

1098
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 2: I came out in March of twenty eighteen. I did

1099
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: my first Instagram post on I think it was December

1100
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: twenty fifth, twenty seventeen. But as I crept up on that,

1101
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 2: I realized that, hey, this is now a business. It's

1102
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: a startup. In particular, it's like being having a computer

1103
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 2: company in nineteen seventy eight in your garage. So the

1104
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: product has to be the best that it can possibly be.

1105
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: And that's the book. So all your heart and soul

1106
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: goes in that. The product has to be the best

1107
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 2: that can possibly be. But guess what, now, what if

1108
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: you want to continue to do what you love, well,

1109
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: people have to know that this thing exists and they

1110
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: have to purchase it. So now what So you adapt?

1111
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 2: And just like on the battlefield, and on the battlefield

1112
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 2: typically you're, as you know, you're looking for gaps in

1113
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: the enemy's defenses to capitalize on momentum. You're looking to

1114
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 2: adapt because the enemy is doing that to you. Well,

1115
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: same thing in business. And I say, I'm like, I'm

1116
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 2: a terrible businessman, but I'm a good entrepreneur. And I

1117
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 2: think it was a seat between those two things. So

1118
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: being an entrepreneur means that you are going to take

1119
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: advantage of all these different opportunities out there to grow

1120
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: essentially a business, a brand, a readership and audience and

1121
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 2: what did that mean? Okay, that meant podcasts, that meant

1122
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: being on them and creating one on my own, that

1123
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: meant engaging on social media. And what I love about

1124
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: that is I get to thank people. Because if you're

1125
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: a Grisham in let's say, nineteen ninety three, or you're

1126
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: a Stephen King in nineteen eighty eight, when do you

1127
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 2: get to say thank you to people?

1128
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: Well, your thank you letter thousands of thousands of thank

1129
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: you letters exactly.

1130
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 2: And you can say at the end of the interview

1131
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 2: real quick, oh thank you to everybody, really appreciate it.

1132
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 2: Or you do a book signing, and I think for

1133
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 2: those guys, the book signings got too big. But for

1134
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: a while they could shake hands and say thank you

1135
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: to people. But that was it. A week long book tour,

1136
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 2: a two week long book tour, that's it. Well, guess

1137
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: what Now I get to thank people then engage with

1138
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 2: me on social media that say that, Hey, I just

1139
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: got this book for my mom or for my cousin

1140
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 2: who's going in the Marine Corps tomorrow or whatever else,

1141
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 2: and I can say, hey, thank you so much, you know,

1142
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: best of them, And so I love that I get

1143
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 2: to engage like that. But that's something that an author

1144
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 2: didn't have to do in the eighties and nineties because

1145
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: there was not you didn't have to So that takes away.

1146
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: So that's a long way of saying that what we

1147
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 2: thought was just going to be writing and sending a

1148
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 2: book to New York every years is very quickly we

1149
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 2: realized that we're building a business at the same time,

1150
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 2: and that takes an investment of essentially what you did

1151
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: in the s yield teams and putting your heart and

1152
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 2: soul into this thing.

1153
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: No doubt, man, And like I've taken a lot more

1154
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: well look plus as a.

1155
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: Family than.

1156
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: Guarantee you that the next Jack car the next are

1157
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: aspiring authors that are going to watch this podcast and

1158
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 1: watch everything that you do, and it's a good lesson

1159
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: for them. Right, Like writing just ain't about writing anymore.

1160
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 1: It's about building a brand in a movement behind the

1161
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: things that you write. As an author, it's about like

1162
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: when people buy a James Reese book, they're buying more

1163
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: than just the story. They're buying into a mindset. And

1164
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: if you're a young author and you want to write

1165
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: a book, there's really no better model to the watching

1166
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: how you built out this business and all the pillars

1167
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: of that brand with James Reese and all these books

1168
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: that you have. But it ain't just about writing, you know. Yeah.

1169
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: And the other side of that, though, is that I

1170
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 2: wouldn't worry about all that other stuff until you have

1171
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 2: the best product you can possibly make. Until that book

1172
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 2: is as good as you can possibly make it, I

1173
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: wouldn't waste any bandwidth worried about a website or worried

1174
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: about a social media presence, or worried about an agent,

1175
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 2: or worried about a publisher. No, put all of that

1176
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: that you just were thinking about those things into the

1177
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 2: book and making it the best. And it doesn't have

1178
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 2: to be a book, any product, whatever you're doing as

1179
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur out there. Put all that into making the

1180
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 2: best product you possibly can because it has to be

1181
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: absolute best that it can be. Then once you have

1182
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: that thing, now start worrying about those other things. How

1183
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: do I get an agent, how do I get a publisher? Okay,

1184
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: now I got to do this, now that but you

1185
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: have to have that book first, especially well the fiction

1186
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 2: side of the house for sure. So you have to

1187
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: have that product. So now that you get it is

1188
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: more than just the writing, But initially I think it

1189
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: has to be all about the book. It has to

1190
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: remain about them. And that's why there's no free times.

1191
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: That's why it's not like you just write up here

1192
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 2: and then maybe you do and then you sit back

1193
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: and know you're always going, always building, and maybe at

1194
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: some point, I don't know, I don't know if you

1195
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: ever take the foot off the gas or not. I

1196
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 2: don't even know, or shift back to writing. Because guys

1197
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 2: that came up in the eighties nineties, like John Grisham

1198
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: and King, like they don't have to do any other

1199
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: stuff because there are already a stablished They can just

1200
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: write and that's wonderful. But today's a little different. And

1201
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 2: what was great about coming into the publishing world when

1202
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: I did, when we did, is that there's an authenticity

1203
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 2: touch point that wasn't necessary in the seventies, eighties and

1204
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 2: nineties because you couldn't check on anything, you couldn't follow somebody,

1205
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 2: you couldn't It wasn't as necessary. I wish I should

1206
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: say today it is that authentic touch point is of

1207
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: vital importance and being your true self and I don't

1208
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: even I couldn't even not be me, that would be exhausting.

1209
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 2: I'm exhausted as it is. I can't even imagine like

1210
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 2: trying not to be me, like a social or something

1211
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 2: like that. That was just not possible. But it's about

1212
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: sharing that journey, but not just sharing the journey to say,

1213
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 2: look what I've done. It's sharing that journey to show that, hey,

1214
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 2: you can do this too. There's lessons in here. Maybe

1215
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 2: there's good ones, there's bad ones, there's successes, there's failures.

1216
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: But it's aspirational and it's inspirational at the same time.

1217
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: It's not just a place where you can say time

1218
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: to buy my book. No, you're sharing the journey so

1219
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: that you can inspire that next generation pass on. These

1220
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 2: lessons have a touch point to say thank you. Have

1221
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 2: this sense of gratitude which I wake up with every

1222
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: single day because without readers and listeners now on the

1223
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: audio side of the house, then I wouldn't be able

1224
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 2: to do what I love, which is right. So I'm

1225
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 2: just wake up every morning just full of gratitude that

1226
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 2: I can work the way that I do, that I

1227
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 2: can invest so much into what I'm doing, and that's

1228
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 2: all because of the readership, because of the listenership, and

1229
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 2: now because of the people that are watching the show

1230
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: on Prime video.

1231
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,439
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so I got two questions for you before

1232
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: I let you go. So only the Dead next book? Right,

1233
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: when's it coming out?

1234
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: So spring? We don't an exact date yet, but spring

1235
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, so it's it's getting close to

1236
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 2: being getting close to being done.

1237
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exciting. I know, and I know you're in

1238
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: the thick of writing it, and I know that your

1239
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: readers are are excited for it. And so if you're

1240
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: watching this podcast or the show or listen listening to it,

1241
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 1: go out and grab the terminal list and dive into

1242
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: James Reeseman because it is. It is a wild fricking

1243
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: ride and you will not be disappointed. Okay, second question,

1244
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: there's going to be a season two?

1245
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 2: We shall see, we shall see. Answer that, hopefully we'll

1246
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 2: have some news soon. But you know, no matter how

1247
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 2: close you get to anything in Hollywood, and it can

1248
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 2: always come just crashing down.

1249
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: So I know, it's so hard to get them all across.

1250
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 2: The appropriately, you know, So even if you're right there,

1251
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: like until you're actually filming. Uh, and even maybe when

1252
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: you're actually filming, this thing could go south and I'll

1253
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 2: heartbeat here. So it's it's important to manage your expectations

1254
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 2: and realize just because you had a phone call. So

1255
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 2: these days I have a lot of phone calls with

1256
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 2: directors and producers for other projects and things like that,

1257
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 2: which is wonderful because I love the creative process. I'm

1258
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 2: learning so much. I learned so much about screenwriting same.

1259
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 2: I love this process. Early on, and so I got

1260
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 2: to see from inception, from essentially selling the book to

1261
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 2: Chris and then what happens after that, and then how

1262
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 2: you get a director attached and a showrunner attached, and

1263
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 2: then luckily those guys wanted me involved, So Antoine Fuqua,

1264
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: incredible human being, Chris Pratt, the showrunner, David Digilio, who's

1265
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: the four of us from the very beginning putting this

1266
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: pilot episode together, and really, when I say putting it together,

1267
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 2: me just learning about this, you know, advising a little

1268
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 2: bit here and there, but really just a sponge, just learning,

1269
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 2: and then through the whole process putting the writer's room together,

1270
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 2: and then having those advising on all those and then

1271
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: having those scripts revert when the writer's room goes off

1272
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 2: to their next projects, and then it's back to me

1273
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: and to Chris and to Antoine and the showrunner again,

1274
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: and then us working those things, continuing to morph them,

1275
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 2: and then, just like the battlefield, when you're out there

1276
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: on set, well, guess what looks great on the table

1277
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 2: in your tactical operations setting when you're planning. So you

1278
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: get out there, you look around, and the train dictates

1279
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 2: its training situation dictate that you're gonna have to morph things.

1280
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 2: Or this actor that came in to play a certain

1281
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 2: character has now brought something else to the role that

1282
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 2: you didn't anticipate when you were in there in this

1283
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 2: statu environment where it's climate controlled and everything is wonderful

1284
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: and it's all on your imagination. That person brought something

1285
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 2: to episode one, two and three, which impacted episode seven

1286
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 2: and eight, and so now that has to shift in

1287
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 2: real time when you're on the set out there and

1288
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: you're scribbling away and you're making notes and you're thinking

1289
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 2: things through and saying, you know what, that didn't really

1290
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: play the way that we thought it would when we

1291
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 2: were back putting the script together. That's not going to work.

1292
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 2: We need to change. So it's very much like the battlefield.

1293
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: Of course, you know the consequences of making a mistake

1294
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 2: are a lot less dire, obviously, but it's the same

1295
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 2: in that you're adapting. You're constantly adapting, you're constantly evolving,

1296
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 2: you're constantly maneuvering. So and that's fun. You're constantly solving

1297
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: problems because really, when you're on the battlefield, as you know,

1298
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 2: you're a problem solver, you're an aggressive problem solver. Same

1299
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 2: thing on set, saving in the pages of the novels,

1300
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 2: as I'm typing away, I'm aggressively solving problems on that

1301
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 2: page the same way we would on a battlefield, though

1302
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 2: once again obviously not as dire. No conspuins is really

1303
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 2: if you mess it up, it's just get it bad.

1304
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: It's about more bad reviews or something. It goes. But

1305
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: but yeah, so that point being, that process was so

1306
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 2: much fun to be involved with. I had such a

1307
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 2: great crew, and I had so many people that came

1308
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: up to me on set who didn't have to that

1309
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 2: would say, hey, I've been involved in hundreds of Hollywood productions.

1310
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 2: None of them have felt like this. Uh, and that's

1311
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 2: really due to Chris and Antoine at the top, and

1312
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 2: that's home that they set for everyone out there. And

1313
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 2: so they inspired everybody, from the person working in makeup

1314
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 2: to the stunt coordinator, you know, no matter who it was,

1315
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: they inspired everybody on that set because they came in

1316
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 2: with this attitude every day that made people want to

1317
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: be there and give their best work. Not like, uh, geez,

1318
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 2: I got to go work with this crazy director again,

1319
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: my star, I cannot.

1320
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: He only needs M and ms in the room exactly.

1321
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 2: So it was the opposite of that. And so many

1322
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 2: people came up to tell me that, and then so

1323
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: many people also came up to say, and this is

1324
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 2: really cool. Hey, uh Mike, Mike, my daughter is going

1325
01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 2: to boot camp tomorrow, or my son's going in to

1326
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: first deployment. And so I always had a big box

1327
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 2: of books that I took with me to this thing

1328
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 2: called video village, which is the producer area where you

1329
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: have your headset and your screen and you're watching everything.

1330
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 2: And so I always brought a huge box of books

1331
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 2: with me, and I just had other ones in my truck,

1332
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: and I just signed books and just hand them out

1333
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 2: to people. It says thank you. It was the least

1334
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 2: that I could I could do, so so it was

1335
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: a great, wonderful experience. But point being that was another

1336
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 2: long way of saying, there's other calls coming in now

1337
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 2: for all these other projects, but I manage my expectations accordingly,

1338
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 2: and I'm just enjoying it for what it is and

1339
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: constantly learning.

1340
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,919
Speaker 1: Well, that's good man, you're living the dream, and I'll

1341
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: tell you it. Well, first of all, it is kind

1342
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: of amazing just how much goes into making an extraordinary film,

1343
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: like like as someone who watched who have an affinity

1344
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: for books and film and all that stuff, as I mentioned,

1345
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: but you go in and you watch it and you're like,

1346
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: that's a that's an amazing movie, like Top Gun. Maverick

1347
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: loved that movie. But so much goes into it, and

1348
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: you just talked about it, from the screenplay to the

1349
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: writer's room, to the filming, to the production, to the

1350
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: music right and making editing afterward.

1351
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 2: You can rum it in editing. Now, I am so

1352
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 2: much more forgiving. I'm always forgiving, Like I'm always when

1353
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: I'm watching a show and I see something, unless it's

1354
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 2: so atrocious, I just can't ignore it and I get

1355
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 2: fixated on it. I try, at least I give it

1356
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 2: my best effort to sit down and appreciate it. For

1357
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 2: what it is and gloss over fingers on the trigger,

1358
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 2: a covering your butt, whatever it might be. Whatever. But

1359
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: now I see how easy it is, even with the

1360
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 2: best in the business there every single day, I see

1361
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 2: how easy it is to make a mistake. And because

1362
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: there's so many people doing different things. And even when

1363
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: you see like a still photo from set and it's

1364
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 2: like someone they're pointing a gun at their leg and

1365
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 2: it's some star and they're like, oh geez, look at this,

1366
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: and it's like, well that was something. It was a

1367
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 2: still and it wasn't from the show, but it made

1368
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 2: it out there and the promotional stuff for whatever it is,

1369
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 2: and it's someone that didn't know and it's the angle

1370
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 2: and they didn't know. Just to get rid of that

1371
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 2: one because it looked like this, but it was anyway,

1372
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 2: the scope covers are on, well, it was just like

1373
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 2: they were on because they were just before the before

1374
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,439
Speaker 2: the scene. But that makes it as a still because

1375
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 2: it's a different group that's putting together the promotions now,

1376
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 2: so it's like so much that can go home. I

1377
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 2: got a different stage of this. So now I'm like

1378
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 2: anytime I see anything, I appreciate the work that went

1379
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 2: into it even more so than I did before. And

1380
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: I'm even more forgiving because I see how easy it

1381
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: is for something to slip through. Uh So that's that

1382
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 2: was definitely a major takeaway from being on set.

1383
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: Well, I am not going to lie to you, man,

1384
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: I uh, you are not an overtly political guy, and

1385
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to put you in that position, Uh

1386
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: I am. And thank goodness, by the way, Yeah, I guess,

1387
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: I guess.

1388
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I get I I have such such thin skin.

1389
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 2: You know, people think the seals yea thick skin and

1390
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 2: all this. You know, I get a bad review or

1391
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 2: I get somebody that's intentionally writing something horribly, you know,

1392
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 2: a personally a personal attack and review or whatever, and

1393
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 2: you know they didn't read the book. And that's just

1394
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 2: how it goes these days. That's the flip side, you know,

1395
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 2: that's the dog. Yeah, yeah, I mean age. Also, everybody

1396
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven can shoot an arrow at you,

1397
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 2: as you know. And I can imagine in politics because

1398
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 2: let's say, back like when we grew up, at the

1399
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 2: end of the day, a politician could leave the office

1400
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 2: or leave an event, go back to the hotel, go

1401
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 2: back to home to family, and be done. Till the

1402
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: next day, until they picked up the paper the next day.

1403
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 2: Maybe Well, now that doesn't exist, just like bullying in

1404
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: school continues past the time when the person leaves because

1405
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 2: they're still connected on social channels. Same thing for politicians.

1406
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 2: All day, every day, even when you're asleep. People are

1407
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 2: throwing spears, people are telling lies, people are putting things

1408
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 2: together that have an agenda, that want to just paint

1409
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 2: things in a way that is just awful. And I

1410
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: can't imagine being in that position. And you stepped into

1411
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 2: that ring, and I have so much respect for you

1412
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 2: for stepping in to that arena and continuing the fight

1413
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 2: where it's so important because for me, I just get.

1414
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just fight, gotta fight for the country.

1415
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,600
Speaker 2: Like one side I'm good at like the uh, you know,

1416
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 2: just having a conversation type side and you know, being

1417
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 2: accepting and forgiving, and I'm very good at the other side,

1418
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 2: the going to warside. But it's the middle side, like

1419
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 2: where well there's no consequences for what you say or

1420
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 2: what you do or how impolite you are, and there's

1421
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 2: no consequences in there for those people, And that sounds

1422
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 2: like a horrible place. To be and an arena that

1423
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 2: I would not want to step into, just because I

1424
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 2: know that I don't would not deal with it.

1425
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: It's look, it's brutal. You're right, and that's why I

1426
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: wwayd say when the when the Terminal List came out

1427
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: and I watched a lot of like progressives like freak

1428
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: out about it, it just it just made me want

1429
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: to watch it even more.

1430
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the bad reviews, like just like the

1431
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: bad reviews on Amazon for my novels help sell the

1432
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 2: book because someone reads that review and is like too

1433
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 2: violent or too much gear, and someone's like, oh, I

1434
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 2: love gear, you know, I love the weapons stuff. I'm

1435
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 2: gonna get that book. So the bad reviews actually help

1436
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: sell the book. And same thing I think with the show.

1437
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: You have the Daily East out there. I forget what

1438
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 2: the headline was, but it was.

1439
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: Pretty sists, white male, revenge, porn, the Terminal List, and

1440
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm watching that, I'm watching this.

1441
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 2: So it's something like that, and you know, obviously they

1442
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 2: have an agenda and they don't like the star of

1443
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 2: the show or they you know, looked at my Instagram

1444
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 2: and saw that I had an everyday care anything on there, Yeah, exactly,

1445
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 2: And so they don't so instantly whatever it is, they

1446
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 2: don't hate it already. They've already they already hate the books.

1447
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 2: They hate the show doesn't matter, and that's just how

1448
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 2: it goes today. But but yeah, that was fun to

1449
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 2: actually use those in a positive way to help promote

1450
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 2: the show.

1451
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: I love it. I mean, maybe you want to watch

1452
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: it even more, and I know I'm not the only one.

1453
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: So but Jack, thank you for your time, Thanks for

1454
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 1: coming on Battleground. It means a lot to me. And

1455
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: if you're watching, go buy Jack's books, go watch the

1456
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: Terminal List, go follow him on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook.

1457
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: Jack's built an incredible brand around James Reese and the

1458
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 1: and the books that he's writing. He's an avid outdoors

1459
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: men and it's just awesome to watch your journey. Man.

1460
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 1: Thank you for the time, man, and God bless you.

1461
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. But first, go out and

1462
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 2: get out Laplatune and readout one first. That's the real

1463
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 2: deal and and hope we'll see again. So but thank

1464
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 2: you so much for your support from the very beginning.

1465
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 2: So thank you for your friendship. Sincerely appreciate that, and

1466
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 2: thank you for continuing to fight even out of uniform.

1467
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 2: It's without people like you doing that, this country would

1468
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,680
Speaker 2: be heading south in a faster than we already are.

1469
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 2: So so thanks, thanks for jumping in the fight.

1470
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: Yeah you got it, man, and we'll see you soon.

1471
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 1: Take care all right later. Okay, everybody that is a rap.

1472
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 1: I hope that you enjoyed my conversation with the great

1473
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: Jack car And as always, if you like what you hear,

1474
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: be sure to subscribe to my YouTube channel or wherever

1475
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Battleground is a show for you.

1476
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: It's a show that cuts through all of the bs.

1477
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: We have meaningful conversations with exceptional people. This show is

1478
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 1: beholden to no one. No one tells us what to

1479
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: say or how to say it. This show is dedicated

1480
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: to helping to save our exceptional nation. So if you

1481
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: like what you heard, again, subscribe, follow me on Twitter,

1482
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 1: Sean Parnell USA on Facebook, on Instagram. Send me your

1483
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 1: comments you know I read them. I respond. If you're

1484
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 1: listening to the podcast, share screenshots of it and tell

1485
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 1: others to listen and to subscribe. Leave reviews because that

1486
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: is really important as well. And also, I just learned

1487
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: that like the YouTube videos as well. I didn't. That's

1488
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: like a thing with their algorithm. Not really sure how

1489
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 1: YouTube works, were still trying to figure it out, but

1490
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: like the videos as well because that helps bring those

1491
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: videos to the top of the feed. And as always,

1492
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: I am truly truly grateful for your support. Thank you

1493
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: so much for listening. God bless you all, and God

1494
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Speaker 1: bless this exceptional nation that we live in. Take care