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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: when we explore some of the big money issues in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports. And Michael and this is a

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Speaker 1: big issue. M S g under fire from New York

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Speaker 1: Attorney General Letitia James because of the use of facial

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Speaker 1: recognition technology. Reportedly it prevents lawyers from accessing its venue.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to discuss this in What's going On.

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Speaker 1: But first of all, James Dolan and he talked about

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Speaker 1: the facial recognition issues that's going on in Latitia James,

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Speaker 1: the real issue that's going on here is our policy

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Speaker 1: of not letting attorneys right and who are suing us

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Speaker 1: into into our building until they've done right serious, when

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Speaker 1: they're done, they're very much welcome back. The But look

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Speaker 1: at it this way, right, if you own a bakery

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Speaker 1: or restaurant, right the and you know, someone comes into

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Speaker 1: I spread from you, and then the next day they

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Speaker 1: serve you with a lawsuit because they hated your breath, right,

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Speaker 1: they said something happened to them with et cetera. Then

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Speaker 1: the next day they show up at your bakery again,

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Speaker 1: they say, I'd like to buy some more bread, Right,

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Speaker 1: would you sell him the bread? And with more on this,

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Speaker 1: let's talk now with Bloomberg's Andrea Mattorio. First of all, Andrea,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me. Well, obviously James Dolan, he's one of the

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Speaker 1: most prominent sports owners on the planet, especially in New York.

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Speaker 1: This has become a big sticky problem. Can you take

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Speaker 1: us through what exactly is going on? Sure? This issue

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Speaker 1: you first got attention around the holidays. There was a

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Speaker 1: woman who was stack wroting her daughter's a girl Scout

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Speaker 1: troop to go see the rockets at Radio City, and

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Speaker 1: UH security wouldn't let the mother in because of the

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Speaker 1: offer that she worked for. And so it's sort of

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Speaker 1: UH multiplied from there were other layers were um telling

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Speaker 1: the media that they too were denied entry to Madison

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Speaker 1: Square Gardens venues because of their law firms involvement in

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Speaker 1: faces against the company that operates their venues and MSG

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Speaker 1: and James Dolan, how much of this are they saying

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Speaker 1: that they are doing versus UH. This is one aggrieved

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Speaker 1: part person's account. MSG has behind its policy. They say

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Speaker 1: that they've told the lawyers in letters that their law

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Speaker 1: firms are excluded from coming to events until their ongoing

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Speaker 1: lawsuits and so, uh, they have made the policy clear

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Speaker 1: to people who are affected by it. But they also

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Speaker 1: have then come back and said, you know now that

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Speaker 1: msg is has gotten scrutiny for this policy, They've said, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know it doesn't uh of whie the lawyers who

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Speaker 1: are doing over certain issues, and um, it's not intended

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Speaker 1: to discourage lawyers from suing us in the first place.

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Speaker 1: But um, you know, James Dolan has said that the

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Speaker 1: suites themselves create this confrontational atmosphere and so that's why

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Speaker 1: he has decided to ban the lawyers from entrance. So, Andrea,

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Speaker 1: I mean this is nothing new, right. I mean James

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Speaker 1: Dolan has banned you know, media outlets like The New

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Speaker 1: York Daily News in the past. Um, I think Charles Oakley,

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Speaker 1: Ethan Hawk, Michael Rappaport, Spike Lee, I mean all come

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Speaker 1: to mind, as as as people who are you know,

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Speaker 1: have a certain stage has been sort of singled out

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Speaker 1: by by New York Knick's ownership. So I mean my

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Speaker 1: question for you is, you know, what is the teacher

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Speaker 1: James hope to get by this, Like, what is she

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Speaker 1: really accusing James Delon of doing I mean, doesn't he

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Speaker 1: own the team. I mean, isn't I guess it's isn't

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Speaker 1: it his prerogative to to do this right? It is

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Speaker 1: a private business, so there's that question of like do

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Speaker 1: they have to let anyone in or are they allowed

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Speaker 1: to exclude certain people based on their progative? But um,

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Speaker 1: I think the method here of using facial recognition technology

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Speaker 1: to identify people who are on this exclusion list, I

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Speaker 1: think that's what the Attorney General is really interested in,

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Speaker 1: and that's what civil rights advocates are also concerned about,

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Speaker 1: because the technology itself raises its own questions about fairness

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Speaker 1: and accuracy and the potential for bias in in just

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Speaker 1: trying to be correct and who you're identifying. So that's

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Speaker 1: sort of as a new wrinkle to this issue. And

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Speaker 1: as you clarify something by the way too, in case

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Speaker 1: people don't know msg entertainment they own Medicine were Garden

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Speaker 1: and Radio City Music Hall, So if I remember eactly, well,

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Speaker 1: I think I think it's good that James Olwen is

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Speaker 1: seeing facial rescognition technology to protect us, as you know,

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Speaker 1: viewers of his events, from evil lawyers out there who

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Speaker 1: are gonna you know, string us up and I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I could see the seriousness of it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean Andreya said, I mean, what come next?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is there like a suit that's you know,

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Speaker 1: in the works. I mean, is this just the threat?

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Speaker 1: Is James Dolan in danger in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: Some of the lawyers who have been excluded from these

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Speaker 1: venues cars doing Madson Square Garden in New York and

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Speaker 1: they argue that it's rollowing their rights. And um, there's

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Speaker 1: this one specific New York law having to do with

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Speaker 1: like theater critics not being banned from theaters because of

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Speaker 1: what they write. So there's an interesting issue that's still

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Speaker 1: unfolding around, like kind of kin a lawyer fight this

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Speaker 1: band and can they like regain their right to gain

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Speaker 1: entry to these events? And so that's going to be

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Speaker 1: playing out in court. I think we should mention as

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Speaker 1: well that In that same interview with Fox five, James

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Speaker 1: Dolan also threatened to alcohol sales at upcoming New York

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Speaker 1: Rangers games because he says the New York State Liquor

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Speaker 1: Authority is targeting him over using that facial recognition technology. UM. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: he said they're being extremely aggressive and they're saying, we're

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Speaker 1: going to take away our liquor license. So his responses,

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Speaker 1: We're going to pick a night, maybe a Rangers game,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to shut down all the liquor and

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Speaker 1: alcohol in the building. This isn't gonna bother me because

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Speaker 1: I've been sober twenty nine years. I don't need the

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Speaker 1: liquor and we don't make all our money on alcohol. UM.

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Speaker 1: I guess the question here is this only on for

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Speaker 1: targeting lawyers? Is that is h James Dolan, Madison Square

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Speaker 1: Garden MSG, the company Entertainment looking to UM single out

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Speaker 1: anyone else. The company has said in statements that it

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Speaker 1: is regularly looking for security thrust at its funny US

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Speaker 1: and UM, you know, there are props other kinds of

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Speaker 1: watch lists that they would be screening against or UM

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Speaker 1: people who might have broken any rules in the past

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Speaker 1: could be banned, and so there is potential for other

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Speaker 1: people besides peoplayers who have come forward to be denied

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Speaker 1: to access. Well, let me ask the question first of all,

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Speaker 1: and yes, this is the big thing about the facial

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Speaker 1: recognition and technology that that is really making news. But

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Speaker 1: the reason why he's using it is because he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want the lawyers that are suing MSG. But what was

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Speaker 1: the initial suit all about before all this with the

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Speaker 1: rate facial technology and all this. There are a few

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Speaker 1: different suits. Some of them were over like people who

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Speaker 1: claimed they were injured at an MSG venue and um,

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Speaker 1: we're suing for their compensation. Or there were some season

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Speaker 1: ticket holders who had brought suits against MSG over being

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Speaker 1: um prevented from reselling. So there's different reasons why people

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Speaker 1: were doing MSG in the first place. But just any

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Speaker 1: law firm that was involved in one of those suits

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Speaker 1: just been So I think I think Michaels hitting on

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Speaker 1: a good point here. I mean, this may this action

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Speaker 1: may varyable to suade law firms, big law firms from

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Speaker 1: taking on suits against MSG. Right, So I think that's

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Speaker 1: the real risk here, I guess in many way, shape

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Speaker 1: or forms, right, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, that's still concerned.

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Speaker 1: One of the incerns that the Attorney General raised was,

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Speaker 1: you know, are you retaliating against these lawyers for doing

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Speaker 1: you and and like you said, could you have sent

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Speaker 1: this to other uh professions like journalism or just other

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Speaker 1: people who you think have offended you in some way

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Speaker 1: that you don't want to access and UM does any

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Speaker 1: other venue do this? Have we seen instances of this

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Speaker 1: elsewhere in the country. This seems to be the most

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Speaker 1: high profile example of its kind, But there are other

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Speaker 1: ways that facial recognition can be used discrete people outs

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Speaker 1: they enter different places like UM doors are said to

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Speaker 1: use this technology to look for shoplifters. UM or casinos

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Speaker 1: sometimes use spacial recognition to watch out for potential cheaters

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Speaker 1: or even just for people who are considering v I

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Speaker 1: p s that they want to know when they're arriving UM.

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Speaker 1: And then, you know, like in places like airports, you

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Speaker 1: can use spacial recognition to get through securities. So it's

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Speaker 1: not you know and heard of use your face as

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Speaker 1: you are entering a place, But it's an interesting application here.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that A. G. James brought up.

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Speaker 1: She was wondering about the reliability of facial recognition technology.

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Speaker 1: And I know this sounds like a stupid question, but

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Speaker 1: I've just I've recently grown a beer and you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: old Rip van Winkles coming down into Madison Square Garden.

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Speaker 1: How reliable is that if the face that you've got

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Speaker 1: before was me clean shaven or your Sunshine, right Bears,

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Speaker 1: even face masks has called into question the accuracy of

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Speaker 1: facial recognition. So um, there are questions like that, like

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Speaker 1: to what extent does a little difference in the way

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Speaker 1: you look affects your your identification or um, there are

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Speaker 1: broader questions to about the way the technology works for

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Speaker 1: different kinds of faces, like women and people of color

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Speaker 1: is said to be less accurate at identifying people that way.

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Speaker 1: So um, there are these other challenge is involved and

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Speaker 1: if you're relying on technology as a screener, like how

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Speaker 1: much base do you have in that technology. Bloomberg's Andrew

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Speaker 1: Vittorio and we're talking about the situation between the New

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Speaker 1: York Attorney General Laticia James and prominent sports owner James Dolan.

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Speaker 1: And Andrea always gives us the education and schools us

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Speaker 1: on all of this. Thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. This has been

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where we explore some

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Speaker 1: of the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael barn I'm Scarlett Foon and you can download

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Speaker 1: this show every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. Download the show

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts,