Speaker 1: Episode two sixty is episode how to cut back on
Speaker 1: emotional spending with Leslie Taine. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast,
Speaker 1: where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, rights, and
Speaker 1: liver with your life. Here your host Jen and Jill
Speaker 1: m M m m. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Jen, my name is Jill, and today
Speaker 1: we are airing one of our personal favorites that happened
Speaker 1: to be very popular with you guys as well, with
Speaker 1: Leslie Taine talking about emotional spending, not just negative emotions,
Speaker 1: but also positive emotions. Any spending we make that is
Speaker 1: emotionally charged, Yeah, and usually that's a lot of our
Speaker 1: spending as well. Learn relearn with Leslie. This was one
Speaker 1: of my personal favorite interviews. I really enjoyed Leslie, so
Speaker 1: excited to reshare it. Yes, but first a sponsor opposites attracting.
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Speaker 1: So if you love spending money, who doesn't, We don't.
Speaker 1: Actually we love the things that money can provide us
Speaker 1: to an extent, but a lot of times we think
Speaker 1: we love spending, and a lot of times those cases
Speaker 1: are emotionally charged. If that's you, which we think that's
Speaker 1: probably more like you, even if you think you love spending.
Speaker 1: This episode is great, but we also have a few
Speaker 1: others you can queue up, including episode one how to
Speaker 1: Identify and Improve Spending Habits. So this takes emotional spending
Speaker 1: but then also talks about a few different types of
Speaker 1: spending an addition to that, and then episode one fifty
Speaker 1: six how to avoid impulse spending. So again, emotional spending
Speaker 1: is just a type of impulse spending. So those are
Speaker 1: very popular episodes. And one fifty six and whenever we
Speaker 1: talk about spending and spending habits, those are always popular episodes.
Speaker 1: So queue those up to listen to after. But first
Speaker 1: we'll just focus on emotional spending. Back to Leslie, Leslie,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you, and we're super excited to
Speaker 1: talk about emotional spending. I can't believe that we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about it more. But it is something that people
Speaker 1: ask about a lot or have like a lot of
Speaker 1: trouble with. So this is going to be a really
Speaker 1: great conversation and hopefully people will leave having a little
Speaker 1: more power over their emotional spending. Leslie, let's get right
Speaker 1: into it. Can you define like emotional spending, like what
Speaker 1: it is? What it is for you? Sure, emotional spend thing,
Speaker 1: you know. I think I think you're right. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize that it's actually happening
Speaker 1: to them. But emotional spending is usually a tied to
Speaker 1: an emotion. You're doing it for a particular reason other
Speaker 1: than a necessity. So a necessity you have to go
Speaker 1: to the supermarket and you're buying food. But emotional spending
Speaker 1: is really tied with some sort of feeling and you're
Speaker 1: motivated to make a purchase as a result of a
Speaker 1: particular feeling. So and sometimes with emotional spending, or most
Speaker 1: of the time with emotional spending, there's an after feeling
Speaker 1: as well, sometimes either an emptiness or a feeling of
Speaker 1: guilt or remorse. So there's an emotion when you're going
Speaker 1: to make the purchase, an emotion when you're making that purchase,
Speaker 1: and then a post emotion that's all tied to it.
Speaker 1: So it's a very emotional experience. M I like how
Speaker 1: you've delineated that that if you're purchasing something other than necessity.
Speaker 1: I think when I first heard the topic, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: do that I'm hearing you're describes like, Oh, I buy
Speaker 1: things all the time that aren't for my life, so
Speaker 1: this is good stuff. Yeah, it's something that I have
Speaker 1: to think about as well. Am I an emotional spender.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm so caught up in you know, I
Speaker 1: do this for a living, so I'm very very focused
Speaker 1: and aware of my purchasing and spending and budgeting and money.
Speaker 1: So I have to really think, you know, is there
Speaker 1: a piece of me that might be an emotional spender
Speaker 1: when I'm understanding the definition of it. You know, not
Speaker 1: everything you purchase is a necessity. It's okay to purchase
Speaker 1: something that you want, but the question is what's the
Speaker 1: reason behind that want and is it something that's trying
Speaker 1: to make you feel better? Yeah, I love it because
Speaker 1: I only think of like typically emotional pre buying, like
Speaker 1: if I'm treating myself because I'm celebrating like I'm happy,
Speaker 1: or if I'm stressed. But then I don't think of
Speaker 1: like even when it's you know, mindless, there's still emotions
Speaker 1: that come um during and then especially like after so
Speaker 1: much guilt and shame when you make a like purchase
Speaker 1: out of budget or or all of those. And I
Speaker 1: just I like didn't really think about parts two and
Speaker 1: three of the spectrum. It's very there's a lot of
Speaker 1: subconscious um impact. There's a lot of things that are
Speaker 1: going on when you're making those purchases that you're actually
Speaker 1: not aware of because at the time of the purchase
Speaker 1: or when you're going to do it, you could actually
Speaker 1: talk yourself into it. You could. Your mind can justify anything.
Speaker 1: It can justify any purchase a reason, you know, why
Speaker 1: you're in that place to begin with. You know, I
Speaker 1: always thinking like, why do want I want to go
Speaker 1: to a mall. If I go to the mall, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna make purchases. So I try to think about,
Speaker 1: you know, what would be my motivation to go to
Speaker 1: the mall. But I could justify why I need to
Speaker 1: go to the mall. So your mind starts to justify
Speaker 1: why it is that you're in the place that you're in,
Speaker 1: why it is that you're going to make that purchase,
Speaker 1: And a lot of it really is subconscious and subconscious feelings.
Speaker 1: So the whope point of the emotional spending is to
Speaker 1: become aware of why you're doing it and what the
Speaker 1: motivation is. And if the motivation is genuine, you know
Speaker 1: it's something that you want, then it's something that you want.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily an emotional purchase. If someone I would
Speaker 1: imagine all of our listeners right now are like Okay,
Speaker 1: is this me? How do I figure this out? What
Speaker 1: would you say about ways to identify the emotions that
Speaker 1: are triggering the spending, so ways to identify the emotions
Speaker 1: not being not in the moment. So don't look at
Speaker 1: yourself like right if the second you are say you're
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're on the way to
Speaker 1: make a purchase, Now is not the time to start
Speaker 1: figuring out why you're doing what you're doing. Look at
Speaker 1: the past kind of go back and look at past
Speaker 1: purchases and say to yourself, so, why did I buy
Speaker 1: those shoes or why did I make that purchase? Was
Speaker 1: that purchase to celebrate an achievement? Did I feel stressed
Speaker 1: on that day? You know, try to take a step
Speaker 1: back and analyze previous spending and that might be able
Speaker 1: to provide some insight and the reasons behind it, and
Speaker 1: you can start to think about, well, what was I
Speaker 1: thinking before that, and what was I thinking when I
Speaker 1: was there? And then how did I feel after I
Speaker 1: made the purchase? And was it something that continued to
Speaker 1: make me feel good or was it something that was
Speaker 1: fleeting after I made the purchase? And that's a really
Speaker 1: good way to start to identify the triggers in those purchases.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that tip. It also makes me wonder
Speaker 1: about even keeping a log as you go, like not
Speaker 1: not to identify everything based off of what you're buying
Speaker 1: right now today, but kind of marking down, okay, on
Speaker 1: this day, here's how I was feeling. Did I buy
Speaker 1: anything that day? I wonder if even like journaling, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing would be helpful for somebody to identify
Speaker 1: what their triggers might be. Totally, journaling is a great
Speaker 1: way to identify emotions, period, and there's so many benefits
Speaker 1: to journaling. It's there's so many benefits. But if we're
Speaker 1: looking at it from an emotional spending perspe active, if
Speaker 1: you start journaling what you've been doing, then you can
Speaker 1: read back. You can go back and say, look, what's
Speaker 1: happened that day. Maybe it had an interaction with a
Speaker 1: family member that was negative, or you had a very
Speaker 1: stressful day at work, or you know something else was
Speaker 1: going on that you may not be so conscious about
Speaker 1: at the time. But when you take a step away
Speaker 1: from it and you can go back to say, your
Speaker 1: journal which really does help job your memory as to
Speaker 1: what's gone on. I mean think about our lives are
Speaker 1: so busy and there's so much information being shot at
Speaker 1: us all the time. It's hard to remember what you
Speaker 1: were feeling yesterday, the day before, even a week before.
Speaker 1: So if you journal and you start to write down
Speaker 1: the events around you're purchasing, you'll be able to identify
Speaker 1: some common denominators and some commonalities in your purchases. And
Speaker 1: by doing so, you'll then be able to see and
Speaker 1: become aware that there's something that's triggering you to do that,
Speaker 1: and then you can I. Once you IDENTI, by that,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna feel so you're gonna feel like
Speaker 1: a weight lifted off of you. But that journaling is
Speaker 1: super important gives such perspective, I think to be able
Speaker 1: to look back. We think we're going to remember what
Speaker 1: has happened in our lives, but reality is we don't.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I ate two days ago, similar
Speaker 1: to what you're saying, Leslie, so and and then being
Speaker 1: further away from that experience can help to bring new
Speaker 1: perspective and realizations and self knowledge. Right. I think you
Speaker 1: make a great point. You know, when we first started talking,
Speaker 1: we were talking about like what what you do over
Speaker 1: the weekend, So you might talk generally about your your
Speaker 1: experiences over the weekend. I did this or I did that,
Speaker 1: but are you really talking about the feelings? And when
Speaker 1: you're journaling and you can write things down in the moment,
Speaker 1: and you can relive those moments again in the future
Speaker 1: really without having to call on your memory to do that,
Speaker 1: because there's there are so many things that impact our
Speaker 1: thought processes in our mindset, and you would look back
Speaker 1: in your journal and see what you were thinking at
Speaker 1: that time, which could be very different from what you're
Speaker 1: thinking today, and that could just be a week or
Speaker 1: a month or a couple of months. Even think about
Speaker 1: our thinking and our thought process January and February and
Speaker 1: how that's changed dramatically March, April, May, June and so forth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is why I think manually tracking your transactions when
Speaker 1: you're trying to get control of your spending is so important.
Speaker 1: And then you can just add this one little extra
Speaker 1: thing on top of it where you're like, okay, these
Speaker 1: are kind of some standout things that happened today, and
Speaker 1: then once you are identifying patterns, you can look back
Speaker 1: on over weeks to see like how these patterns are
Speaker 1: going out what's happening. So if you're already manually tracking
Speaker 1: your transactions, this is just like a small extra step
Speaker 1: that you can do to like get control of your spending.
Speaker 1: And it's like not that hard, just like do you
Speaker 1: know writing a couple of sentences before you go to
Speaker 1: bed at night makes can make so much difference. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, identifying your biggest and your most consistent what
Speaker 1: we call spending triggers, is super important because once you
Speaker 1: know that spending trigger, you'll become more aware of them.
Speaker 1: You'll stop and you'll think before making the purchase out
Speaker 1: of an emotion and not really the necessity. I love
Speaker 1: the whole person approach that happens here, Like I'm getting
Speaker 1: this visual of having all of your expenses listed out
Speaker 1: on a document as well as your emotions and how
Speaker 1: your day when how intertwining which we are, like we
Speaker 1: are whole people and all these aspects of our personhood
Speaker 1: intersect and if we could get closer and closer to
Speaker 1: making those connections, my goodness, will we be a healthier
Speaker 1: person for it. But what an interesting concept. My mind
Speaker 1: is being a little bit blown thinking about at like
Speaker 1: my budget and my journal the coinside, But how amazing
Speaker 1: would that day. It's very empowering. Actually, So if you
Speaker 1: if you include your journaling with your purchasing and you're budgeting,
Speaker 1: he'll become so intertwined that you know, it'll become second
Speaker 1: nature to understand. Okay, so I'm making this purchase. Now
Speaker 1: I understand why I'm making this purchase and how I
Speaker 1: ended up where I am in the first place. What's
Speaker 1: motivating me to get where I am? Again? The motivation.
Speaker 1: I keep going back to that example of going to
Speaker 1: the mall. But you know, sometimes I think, you know, um,
Speaker 1: so there's all these off I'll give you a good example.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking for a new office space right and
Speaker 1: there's office space around this big mall here on Long Island.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want office space over there because
Speaker 1: I'll be too tempted to go and shop during lunch
Speaker 1: or you know, there's there's like department stores there. I'll
Speaker 1: be thinking, oh, I should be going in there having
Speaker 1: a sale. But if I keep myself away from it
Speaker 1: so I know what my triggers are, I become aware
Speaker 1: that if I see it then and I visual and
Speaker 1: I'm visualizing it's in my face, then I'm gonna want it.
Speaker 1: So if I keep myself kind of away from it
Speaker 1: and I get an office space in an industrial part,
Speaker 1: likely just but that kind of example is just you know,
Speaker 1: that's my kind of trigger. But for you it may
Speaker 1: be something similar or different. The fact pattern is slightly different.
Speaker 1: But if you could be aware of what makes you
Speaker 1: trigger by knowing why you're buying what you're buying, it's
Speaker 1: so empowering. Yeah, and you don't I mean, if it
Speaker 1: seems kind of overwhelming to commit to a lifestyle like this,
Speaker 1: you could just see like a financial journaling challenge where
Speaker 1: you spend like ninety days I'm going to track my
Speaker 1: transactions and like journal about them, you know, emotionally and
Speaker 1: see what happens, see what you can get, and just
Speaker 1: doing it for like a month or two or three months,
Speaker 1: and then even that complicated, Yeah, you could just be
Speaker 1: like you could do an emoji next to it, like
Speaker 1: on the feeling, Yes it could. You could have a
Speaker 1: fear emoji. You could have an anger emoji, you could
Speaker 1: have a sad emoji. Like just put something next to
Speaker 1: it that identify is that and and something that you
Speaker 1: identify with that could be that identifiable emotion. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be overly complicated. Where you know you now,
Speaker 1: you're you have in your head, you're visualizing, well, I
Speaker 1: should I lay on the couch and have a freud
Speaker 1: like session about why I'm doing this. No, you could
Speaker 1: just put an emoji next to the purchase. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: most budgeting apps will have like a note section for
Speaker 1: a transaction. So yeah, it's great. Yeah, what are some
Speaker 1: alternatives too emotional spending? Once we start to identify these patterns, So,
Speaker 1: some alternatives to emotional spending are um, you know, you
Speaker 1: have to find again, once you identify the ways in
Speaker 1: wait which you are triggered by this, you can find
Speaker 1: ways for healthier outlets. So you could say to yourself,
Speaker 1: all right, so i'm feeling I'm feeling this way, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm feeling and I'm tempted to go purchase because
Speaker 1: I'm feeling that, you know, I want to make myself
Speaker 1: I'm angry. It's something that happened, and this will distract
Speaker 1: me from being angry. That's one way to distract you.
Speaker 1: But there are other ways to distract yourself from a
Speaker 1: particular feeling. So you could take a walk, you could
Speaker 1: do yoga, you could exercise. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: it is really being powerful within yourself and your mind
Speaker 1: to understand once you know what the trigger is, what
Speaker 1: you could do to make changes to that. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what's super important. It's really that self awareness,
Speaker 1: peace and trying to get yourself in a place where
Speaker 1: you know that. I mean, again, you have to talk
Speaker 1: to yourself and you have to have conversations within yourself,
Speaker 1: which is super normal and okay, and you're saying, this
Speaker 1: is how I'm feeling, and this is what I would
Speaker 1: want to do to make myself feel better. What are
Speaker 1: some other things that I could do to make myself
Speaker 1: feel better in the moment? And um, talking about it
Speaker 1: is really important also, So find a friend or a
Speaker 1: significant other or somebody that you can have a conversation
Speaker 1: with and say, hey, you know, I'm having a tough
Speaker 1: day and I'm feeling like doing you know, this is
Speaker 1: what I'm feeling like. You know, do you have a
Speaker 1: few minutes can I just talk it out with you?
Speaker 1: And you know, if you could, if you could get
Speaker 1: it out and talk about it, you can write about it.
Speaker 1: That's again another really good way that the process of
Speaker 1: the additional process of journaling and being really detailed and
Speaker 1: that are the great ways for you to um distract
Speaker 1: yourself and find healthier solutions than just purchasing. I love it, Leslie.
Speaker 1: I think what we're really talking about here is coping mechanisms,
Speaker 1: and there are healthy and unhealthy coping mechanisms, and spending
Speaker 1: unnecessarily on things that we don't want that then leads
Speaker 1: to that guilt and shame that you were talking about.
Speaker 1: That's that that would be on the unhealthy spectrum. Uh, certainly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there is a spectrum to it what we could choose
Speaker 1: to do to bring about care for ourselves or what
Speaker 1: we think is going to be caring. But I think
Speaker 1: you make an important point here that I just want
Speaker 1: to highlight that you need to find healthy outlets. It
Speaker 1: can't just be I'm not going to spend. We do
Speaker 1: still have to deal with that emotion and we have
Speaker 1: to replace that spending with something else. And you've just
Speaker 1: given a fantastic list of verbal processing, writing, self talk,
Speaker 1: having some of these things prepared, which I believe we
Speaker 1: Jen Jen and I talked about in our self Care episode.
Speaker 1: Just creating a whole list ahead of time. Again to
Speaker 1: highlight your point, Leslie, of we're not doing this in
Speaker 1: the moment. We are doing some of this back end
Speaker 1: work ahead of time when we're not in that emotionally
Speaker 1: vulnerable spot. So to be able to have a list
Speaker 1: already prepared of I know that getting near water helps me,
Speaker 1: or I know that walking outside helps me, or I
Speaker 1: know that petting my animal helps me, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Sometimes those things are hard to access when we're in
Speaker 1: the moment. So already just having a simple list of like,
Speaker 1: these are the things that I do to care for myself,
Speaker 1: so that when we might be like, Okay, I'm angry,
Speaker 1: I'm upset, I'm overwhelmed, to just look at the list.
Speaker 1: There's not a whole lot of thinking that needs to
Speaker 1: be involved there. Just let me pick something off of
Speaker 1: this list. What's low hanging fruit, what's accessible to me
Speaker 1: right now? Um, And you've given us a great start, Leslie.
Speaker 1: And I think I think that you can also as
Speaker 1: you buy things, if you start to say to yourself
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, whether you're whatever, you're purchasing necessities
Speaker 1: or wants, say yourself, why am I buying this? Determine
Speaker 1: what your wants and needs are. And if you start
Speaker 1: to get in the habit of doing that, you'll start
Speaker 1: to start you'll ask yourself, under every circumstance, what am
Speaker 1: I doing? And why am I purchasing this? And when
Speaker 1: you start to get into that habit, and a habit
Speaker 1: forms in about thirty days if you can be habitual
Speaker 1: about asking yourself that question every purchase, and I mean
Speaker 1: from gas to for your car, for everything you purchase.
Speaker 1: So if you start to do that, you start to
Speaker 1: become super conscious of your purchases because I think that
Speaker 1: you're so right you can't and you're in the moment
Speaker 1: and you're having one of these feelings, it's very hard
Speaker 1: to turn that off. So if you start ahead of time,
Speaker 1: when things are nice and calm, and you can be
Speaker 1: consistent with the process, then when the when the peak comes,
Speaker 1: when the emotions hit and things go a little more awry,
Speaker 1: you'll be in the same thought process where you're asking yourself,
Speaker 1: do I really need this? Is this a want or
Speaker 1: a need? You know? Why am I doing this? And
Speaker 1: I think if you start treating yourself mentally ahead of
Speaker 1: time and consistently the self care on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: you'll find that you know that you won't have the
Speaker 1: same spikes in these emotional needs where you're creating a
Speaker 1: where a situation is created that's forcing you into an
Speaker 1: emotional spending circumstance, which really, as you've identified, turns out
Speaker 1: to be not not great anyhow, we we've got that
Speaker 1: after shock, emotion of guilt or shame or in my situation,
Speaker 1: I usually sweat and just like you're always sweaty candidate
Speaker 1: with my credit card for something that I probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: have just bought, so you start to not be able
Speaker 1: to breathe in your hyper that didn't have that compounded
Speaker 1: the difficult situation and now any deodorant. It's very is
Speaker 1: The spending in general is emotional. Okay, there's so many
Speaker 1: go on spending anything because we're a we are always
Speaker 1: talking about budgeting where and you know, depending on the
Speaker 1: generation you come from, you know, money is kind of
Speaker 1: a newer topic. Honestly, Like in the past, money was
Speaker 1: never talked about. So think about how repressed thoughts and
Speaker 1: feelings had been about money and spending and now we
Speaker 1: talk about money so much more and budgeting in your credit,
Speaker 1: your credit score and not getting into debt or how
Speaker 1: to stay out of debt, and those topics are so
Speaker 1: they trend all the time. So now it's right in
Speaker 1: front of you about what is almost a judgmental perspective,
Speaker 1: if like I shouldn't spend, I shouldn't have credit card debt,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have bad credit, and so there's feelings of guilt,
Speaker 1: beings almost thrown at you or created. And then those
Speaker 1: feelings are you know, internalized from coming from older generations
Speaker 1: who never talked about it, so you didn't grow up
Speaker 1: necessarily talking about these things, and now you have media
Speaker 1: and discussions about it, but you're not really sure where
Speaker 1: they should go. So I think that topic of money,
Speaker 1: spending and budgeting is a very emotional top topic for
Speaker 1: people to begin with, because I'm not really sure how
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize what the feelings are that you should have
Speaker 1: during the process of purchasing and managing your money. It's
Speaker 1: it's a great point identify where have we come from,
Speaker 1: even not just what's our personal history with spending in
Speaker 1: the emotions attached to it, but also digging even deeper
Speaker 1: to what is my family's financial story and how does
Speaker 1: that play into the way that I approach purchases or
Speaker 1: finances or budgeting and it's it's all intertwined and we
Speaker 1: can dive as deep as we want. But that I
Speaker 1: was in a store yesterday and the girl, Um, the
Speaker 1: sales girl said to me, Um, my family comes from
Speaker 1: the idea that if you don't have the money, you
Speaker 1: don't buy it. So it was so. And I think
Speaker 1: that goes right to that point where you know your families,
Speaker 1: your your parents and grandparents had had had discussions about money.
Speaker 1: Whether they didn't have discussions, that's still that's still a discussion,
Speaker 1: if it was quiet or there was comments made like that.
Speaker 1: And that's imprinted on you from a very young age.
Speaker 1: And when it's imprinted on you, unless you become aware
Speaker 1: of that as an adult, it carries with you and
Speaker 1: it does create the motivations and the underlying subconscious behaviors
Speaker 1: that we have when it comes to our view of money.
Speaker 1: Our ideas of money are are spending habits. So it
Speaker 1: is something to be explored. You know, sometimes you might
Speaker 1: find when you're doing the journaling process and asking yourself
Speaker 1: while you're buying something, you might actually find that some
Speaker 1: of it does relate back to your childhood, that some
Speaker 1: impacts of the thoughts and um judgments about money maybe
Speaker 1: impacting your emotional spending today. Yeah. I was actually just thinking,
Speaker 1: like when when I was trying to think of an
Speaker 1: example of like an emotional spending that might be like
Speaker 1: really common, my first thought was, like, if I had
Speaker 1: to go spend time with my mom and we were
Speaker 1: if this was like five years ago, um, and I
Speaker 1: had to go spend time with my mom, I would
Speaker 1: have to stop at Starbucks before every time and like
Speaker 1: get a latte to make myself feel better because I
Speaker 1: was just so like anxious about it. Okay, so that
Speaker 1: is emotional spending. That is emotional spending. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be that you walked into a store and you
Speaker 1: spent you know, a hundred dollars on a pair of
Speaker 1: shoes you shouldn't have. It could be emotional spending on
Speaker 1: a four dollar a cup of coffee exactly. And then
Speaker 1: like how do we combat that? Like figuring out Like
Speaker 1: figuring out that's what you do, like after a few
Speaker 1: weeks of recording it, and then it's as simple as
Speaker 1: figure ring out, Okay, what's something else that can like
Speaker 1: soothe my anxiety that doesn't cost money but gets me
Speaker 1: the same emotional result? Um? Yeah, or better or maybe
Speaker 1: going to counseling and fixing those things. But and that
Speaker 1: is a way and that is a way out too.
Speaker 1: I mean there, therapy is is not a new concept.
Speaker 1: It's it's very um open and talked about. And therapy
Speaker 1: is a wonderful tool to help you become insightful and
Speaker 1: become aware of these things and then learn what those
Speaker 1: triggers are, because sometimes these triggers are much deeper and
Speaker 1: more difficult to deal with just by yourself. And you
Speaker 1: make a really good point going to therapy. There's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with it at all. It helps you understand yourself better.
Speaker 1: And if you can help understand yourself and find healthier
Speaker 1: ways to manage what those triggers are, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: and just gonna be a healthier person all over. Knowledge
Speaker 1: is empowering. What we're talking about here of learning ourselves better,
Speaker 1: it does empower us and helps us to continue on
Speaker 1: that trajectory of making good, healthy decisions for ourselves. And
Speaker 1: I love what you're saying here, Leslie about even the
Speaker 1: underlying message of it's not about guilt or shame for
Speaker 1: however you were raised or whatever you your typical approach
Speaker 1: to money is. But this this message of let's just
Speaker 1: learn ourselves better and care for ourselves better. And and
Speaker 1: so with that, if we find ourselves at a place
Speaker 1: of Okay, we just made an emotional purchase and we
Speaker 1: know it, like we we've discovered all these things and
Speaker 1: now we know it. What what would you recommend to
Speaker 1: somebody who can identify that, Okay, I just did this.
Speaker 1: How do I recover now? So? I think the first
Speaker 1: step to recovery is not being hard on yourself, is
Speaker 1: not beating yourself up and saying, I'm not a bad person.
Speaker 1: I did this, I shouldn't have done this, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm either going to get in trouble or yelled at
Speaker 1: or or i'm or I'm yelling at myself in my
Speaker 1: own head. The first step is to be kind to
Speaker 1: yourself and say, Okay, I'm really proud of myself for
Speaker 1: identifying that I just made an emotional purchase, and say
Speaker 1: and and you know, I try to keep everything really
Speaker 1: positive and say because it's baby steps in the recovery process.
Speaker 1: And once you you say to yourself, you know, I
Speaker 1: made this purchase, I'm not a bad person for making
Speaker 1: this purchase. I'm aware that I did it, and I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of myself for identifying and now what can
Speaker 1: I do? Now is the time to write down why
Speaker 1: I'm feeling this. And now you've taken step number two
Speaker 1: in you know, writing it down, and you say, I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of myself that I actually took out the
Speaker 1: journal and wrote this down, and now going forward, I
Speaker 1: can make changes going forward, and you can't. You can't
Speaker 1: go back necessarily and fix the past. You can learn
Speaker 1: from the past, and you could say again that I
Speaker 1: understand why I did what I did, and I think
Speaker 1: really being kind to yourself and saying, if I'm feeling
Speaker 1: stressed about going into a family event, you know, the
Speaker 1: holidays are coming up again, and it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: an unusual circumstance that we're going to be managing the
Speaker 1: holiday season this year, so that may be added stress.
Speaker 1: So this might be the time of year that you
Speaker 1: actually start spending more. So now going into it, you
Speaker 1: could say, all right, now that I've identified that when
Speaker 1: I see my family, I'm really stressed out and I
Speaker 1: tend to buy more or your um spend more during
Speaker 1: those times, So what can I do to make myself
Speaker 1: feel better about it? And I think that's the next
Speaker 1: step is to really get that understanding. It's really about you.
Speaker 1: You know, just because somebody else has a feeling or
Speaker 1: is soothed by um a resolution to this problem doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that you are too. But again, be don't be
Speaker 1: hard on yourself. Be very kind to yourself and forgiving
Speaker 1: and understanding and understand that the recovery process is sometimes
Speaker 1: one step forward and two steps back. And I often
Speaker 1: tell that to my clients when we're resolving debt in general,
Speaker 1: that you know, we're going to take a step ahead,
Speaker 1: but you might find we take two steps back. But
Speaker 1: we'll get ahead. But in the beginning things are a
Speaker 1: little bit more challenging because we need to fix some
Speaker 1: of the issues and I am fixing some of the
Speaker 1: issues requires that identification process and it's all emotional. It's
Speaker 1: it is all emotional based. So um that's that would
Speaker 1: be my recommendation. And really being kind to yourself, even
Speaker 1: learning to be kind to ourselves is such a novel concept.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say that. I actually work as
Speaker 1: a counselor in my day job, and it's something that
Speaker 1: I often say at the end of sessions to clients
Speaker 1: is be kind to yourself. And and then I thought
Speaker 1: it necessarily an easy thing to do because there are
Speaker 1: our biggest critics, and we're inside absolutely and we're criticizing
Speaker 1: ourselves so often and again, if you can I identify
Speaker 1: that pattern, you know, because you might actually find out
Speaker 1: the emotional spending once you bought and now you're beating
Speaker 1: yourself up, that the patterns there, that you're almost making
Speaker 1: it worse because you made the purchase and now you're
Speaker 1: angry or disappointed with yourself and you and you start
Speaker 1: to almost um for lack of better words, beat yourself
Speaker 1: up for it and be hard on yourself. So you
Speaker 1: could get in your head and say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm identifying that I have this problem. I know I
Speaker 1: have this issue, and I'm not a bad person because
Speaker 1: I have this issue, but I want to be kind
Speaker 1: to myself. I'm gonna be kind to Leslie today and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: you made this purchase. It's not the end of the world,
Speaker 1: but let's figure out how we could fix it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it can become a vicious cycle if we're not careful,
Speaker 1: and it happens in the debt part too. I have
Speaker 1: that a lot of my clients in debt because what
Speaker 1: ends up happening is obviously there's a lot of reasons
Speaker 1: why people get into debt. Emotional spending is one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why people get end up in debt and
Speaker 1: have a lot of credit card bills. And I sit
Speaker 1: with my clients when we can see each other face
Speaker 1: to face, um, and in the past, they're crying. It's
Speaker 1: a very emotional time. They're very hard on themselves, they
Speaker 1: feel very guilty, they feel there's so many emotions as
Speaker 1: part of that process. And to understand that that that
Speaker 1: it is emotional, I think is an important piece of
Speaker 1: the puzzle too. That you can't go into this with
Speaker 1: the idea that you're going to be detached from the process,
Speaker 1: because emotional spending is just that it's based on feelings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was thinking um last weekend. Actually, I was like,
Speaker 1: every financial decisions or question has two answers, a math
Speaker 1: answer and an emotional answer, and you just have to
Speaker 1: decide which answer is right for you for each specific question.
Speaker 1: And I think we always feel so pressured to go
Speaker 1: with the math answer, what answer makes the most mathematical sense,
Speaker 1: and we don't consider the emotional answer, and we almost
Speaker 1: sometimes feel guilty when we choose the emotional answer when
Speaker 1: it's not the math answer. Right, If that happens a
Speaker 1: lot of the debt that world, because it's the world
Speaker 1: is very emotional, and that's where a somebody like myself
Speaker 1: who's looking at it. We call it business decisions is
Speaker 1: business versus personal feelings on these things. But someone who
Speaker 1: can really take that emotion out of it and help
Speaker 1: you um make good decisions. You know, when you start
Speaker 1: to think things through clearly and you remove some of
Speaker 1: the emotions. It's hard to do that on your own,
Speaker 1: it really is. Yeah, we're not saying be a robot
Speaker 1: and take all emotion out of everything, but to ensure
Speaker 1: that we're not making decisions purely out of emotions. That
Speaker 1: just perpetuates a problem for us. And that's the basis
Speaker 1: of emotional spending. It's just done because through emotions without
Speaker 1: a thought process. And well, what I think we're talking
Speaker 1: about is putting a little bit of the thought process
Speaker 1: into it so that it's not a hundred percent emotional spending. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like our brains are are the friend that, like,
Speaker 1: we see a problem, somebody's having a problem, and we
Speaker 1: try and help them because we think we know what's
Speaker 1: best and then it actually ends up hurting them. That's
Speaker 1: our brain. Our brain is trying to take over and
Speaker 1: like make a decision for us to try and quote
Speaker 1: unquote help us. But like in the end, it's just
Speaker 1: not doing the right thing. Sometimes the brain is not
Speaker 1: always your friend. Do you know what is your friend
Speaker 1: and is always the right thing and is always the
Speaker 1: combination of personal and professional best balance? The bill of
Speaker 1: the week. That's right, it's time for the best minute
Speaker 1: of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and
Speaker 1: his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage,
Speaker 1: maybe your car died and you're happy to not have
Speaker 1: to pay that bill anymore. That bill bufo bills, Bill Clinton.
Speaker 1: This is the bill of the week, Leslie. Every week
Speaker 1: we invite our guests or listeners to share with us
Speaker 1: their favorite bill, and we know that you've got a
Speaker 1: good one prepared for us, and we're gonna pretend it
Speaker 1: like the first time we've heard it. But okay, let
Speaker 1: us know, alright, So you know, I really gave us
Speaker 1: a lot of thought as far as what bill, because
Speaker 1: I deal with bills every single day. I did was
Speaker 1: so many bills, um mine and others. So in the
Speaker 1: beginning of covid UM, the beginning of the quarantine period
Speaker 1: of covid around March, there was so much unknown um
Speaker 1: that was going to happen here in New York. We
Speaker 1: were faced with potential lockdown and then ultimately locked down
Speaker 1: and the shutting down of businesses, and that was a
Speaker 1: really challenging time. So I took out my credit card
Speaker 1: bills from my business and what I did was I
Speaker 1: line item every single purchase in the last several months,
Speaker 1: reoccurring purchases. And what my bookkeeping staff and I did
Speaker 1: was we highlighted it. We called every single creditor on
Speaker 1: that list and we asked them what programs did they have,
Speaker 1: what were they offering at the time under the circumstances.
Speaker 1: And we called the credit card companies as well to
Speaker 1: ask them if there were options in reducing the interest rates,
Speaker 1: because even though you might pay your bills off every
Speaker 1: single month, there with that unknown situation, you might have need.
Speaker 1: You know, we're thinking what if we needed to finance something.
Speaker 1: Where would we be at if we needed to um
Speaker 1: take bills, if there wasn't cash flow coming in, how
Speaker 1: would we manage the bills? So what what we did
Speaker 1: was we went through each one of them and we
Speaker 1: were shocked. I'm personally shocked at how many of these
Speaker 1: vendors were willing to give us three months no payments,
Speaker 1: three months for free, reduce our interest rates. We turned
Speaker 1: off programs that we didn't need at all. We realized
Speaker 1: at times we were being double billed on two different
Speaker 1: cards for the same game service, and we were able
Speaker 1: to get a credit back. Um believe it. At our
Speaker 1: facts service, we have multiple facts lines, so there was
Speaker 1: some confusion on the bills about you know, the the
Speaker 1: facts lines, so it shows up as a fact, so
Speaker 1: we check it off. But when we called up and
Speaker 1: we asked them to itemize the expenses, we had them
Speaker 1: also tell us which bills they were charging us on
Speaker 1: and it turned out they were on several different credit
Speaker 1: cards for the same account, so we were able to
Speaker 1: get a refund back. We saved. I have to tell you,
Speaker 1: I can't. I don't know numbers of what we saved
Speaker 1: at the top of my head, but we've saved a
Speaker 1: lot of money just by going through those credit card
Speaker 1: bills on reoccurring payments. I mean, as a business, you
Speaker 1: have a lot of recurring payments every month. But I
Speaker 1: could tell you that that exercise was one of the
Speaker 1: best things that happened to us during COVID because we
Speaker 1: saved money, we consolidated, we reduced our interest rates, and
Speaker 1: we got rid of things that we just didn't need anymore. Wow,
Speaker 1: it wasn't unfortunate reason for that push, but it sounds
Speaker 1: like such an excellent exercise for businesses or individuals to
Speaker 1: do on a regular basis. COVID or not. Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: have to tell you that COVID had so many that
Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding COVID, while unfortunate from a health perspective,
Speaker 1: the reality was what a step back, What a fabulous
Speaker 1: opportunity for a step back in figuring out what's important financially,
Speaker 1: you know, family wise and medical wise as well. But
Speaker 1: just from a financial perspective, it was a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to really take a look at rebudgeting. I mean, we
Speaker 1: re budgeted several times. We cut out expenses that we
Speaker 1: just didn't need. We trimmed down that budget to almost
Speaker 1: you know, what could I get away with that was
Speaker 1: bare bones billing wise for us, if we needed to
Speaker 1: be if we were going to be in a position
Speaker 1: where we were going to be shut down, who knew how,
Speaker 1: we had no idea how long we were going to
Speaker 1: be shut down for and what the cash flow situation
Speaker 1: was going to be like. So it was COVID really
Speaker 1: from that perspective, was you know, on a positive note
Speaker 1: of COVID that was really a good experience for us. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's still more like things that individuals can take
Speaker 1: advantage of as far as like payment relief and lowering
Speaker 1: interest rate. It's like, no, this is not over. So
Speaker 1: if you have not done this yet, this is the
Speaker 1: perfect time to do it. Absolutely, you should be going
Speaker 1: through your bills. My recommendation is going through your bills
Speaker 1: on a regular basis and taking a look at every
Speaker 1: single month what it is that you're being charged or
Speaker 1: remember that some of your your bills are quarterly or yearly,
Speaker 1: like your homeowners insurance or or car car insurance. There
Speaker 1: are things that come in quarterly where yearly that you
Speaker 1: may not have seen yet that that March, you know,
Speaker 1: that March, April, May June period where things are really
Speaker 1: challenging that didn't come up, and now in later part
Speaker 1: of the year you might be finding that there's more expenses.
Speaker 1: So this, the COVID situation is from a financial perspective,
Speaker 1: is far from over, and in my experience, it won't
Speaker 1: be over for years. And there are opportunities right now
Speaker 1: to take a look at your expenses, you're billing, you're
Speaker 1: spending whatever is on there, and look at it and
Speaker 1: decide what is the most important. Call up these creditors
Speaker 1: and ask them, Listen, I've been a good customer. I've
Speaker 1: been I've had your credit card for ten years or
Speaker 1: I've been paying every single month and I never missed
Speaker 1: a payment. What options do you have? Can you lower
Speaker 1: my interest rate? What can you offer me that would
Speaker 1: um entice me to stay on as a customer. They
Speaker 1: don't want to lose No one wants to lose business
Speaker 1: right now, so they're gonna find creative ways to keep
Speaker 1: you as a customer as well. So and if you're
Speaker 1: having challenges and your um your cash flow isn't what
Speaker 1: it was, call up for balance billing and call up
Speaker 1: your utility companies. Don't be afraid to ask, I negotiate everything.
Speaker 1: Call up every single creditor and just ask them what
Speaker 1: they're willing to do the word that anybody could ever
Speaker 1: say to you is no, and and no doesn't always
Speaker 1: mean no. You could always say are you sure there's
Speaker 1: no other option? Is there anything you know? Just ask
Speaker 1: the right questions. Yeah, no sometimes means you call back
Speaker 1: and you talk to someone else. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Well. If you have a bill for
Speaker 1: us that you want to share, please visit Frugal Friends
Speaker 1: podcast dot com slash bill and leave us a bill
Speaker 1: and we will play it eventually on the air. We
Speaker 1: have quite a few right now that just because you
Speaker 1: haven't heard yours yet does not mean it's not coming
Speaker 1: unless it's just unless you just call them say who
Speaker 1: do this? Which I do like those bills too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: number get weird messages. It's time. Sometimes it does come up,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Now it's time for the round?
Speaker 1: Do do? Do? We just this? We yell at each other,
Speaker 1: We yell at our guests. You're from families, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think you're good. I take it. Okay, Then you could
Speaker 1: say that I can't manage. Okay, welcome to the family. Um,
Speaker 1: we are doing something like a smidge unique for this
Speaker 1: lightning realm because I found this article from Bustle and
Speaker 1: it has a lot of gifts and it's very fun.
Speaker 1: And it's titled seven Signs you might be emotional spending.
Speaker 1: And so we're going to go through and play which
Speaker 1: emotional spender? Are you? A new game I came up
Speaker 1: with this morning and we're playing it now. There's no winners,
Speaker 1: but there's also no losers. Yes, So we're just going
Speaker 1: to go through these, and then when we come across
Speaker 1: one that we are, we're gonna like ding ding ding
Speaker 1: and then say why. And you could do that in
Speaker 1: your car or wherever you're listening to this from and
Speaker 1: just be like ding ding ding and then give us
Speaker 1: your example. You're one step closer to self knowledge. Yes,
Speaker 1: maybe in the Frugal for an community you can let
Speaker 1: us know they're on Facebook, all right. First one, you
Speaker 1: are the instant gratification spender. Everyone likes new things, but
Speaker 1: if the feeling of instant gratification is a big part
Speaker 1: of the picture, you might be emotionally spending an attempt
Speaker 1: to inspire happiness and excitement. You might not otherwise feel
Speaker 1: no One on the call, all right, Because emotional spender
Speaker 1: number two, you shop to escape ding ding ding ding ding.
Speaker 1: So shopping is fun, whether it's online or in a store.
Speaker 1: It can also be pleasurably distracting to look at storefronts
Speaker 1: and compare items, But if you do this regularly as
Speaker 1: a means of avoiding thinking about other pressing issues in
Speaker 1: your life, it might be a sign you're spending is
Speaker 1: a band aid. So Leslie tell us your example. So
Speaker 1: I find myself like at night, have to work, like
Speaker 1: since we're really not going anywhere these days, I find
Speaker 1: myself on the computer, you know, just like looking at
Speaker 1: like online shopping. So I spent the time on Amazon,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, and then I get these emails that
Speaker 1: say the top things to purchase in different categories, and
Speaker 1: I get all excited about these top things that I'm
Speaker 1: I realized that I'm escaping, and then I'm distracting myself
Speaker 1: from everything else that's gone on and I and I'm
Speaker 1: so hyper focused on these items and reading the reviews
Speaker 1: and going through it. I'm like, I'm like in another world.
Speaker 1: I love it. I yes, I have to um escape
Speaker 1: the house while Travis, my husband sleeps, like during the
Speaker 1: days on the weekends because he works the nights. And
Speaker 1: so when I physically escaped, like I choose to go
Speaker 1: to Target or to al d or somewhere else that
Speaker 1: like is pleasurable for me, and just like walk around
Speaker 1: with my son. So I love Target. I have a
Speaker 1: question for you, though, So when I get into Target,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have this experience. As soon
Speaker 1: as I get there, I feel my brain drain. As
Speaker 1: soon as I walk in, I feel like there's a
Speaker 1: sucking machine that sucks out my head. And I walk in,
Speaker 1: I go, why am I here? And then I, of
Speaker 1: course I need the whole car. I don't need just
Speaker 1: the little card. I take the big card. And then
Speaker 1: I started walking around, I get super distracted in the
Speaker 1: aisles and I'm like off and running and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I have a whole cart full of
Speaker 1: things I didn't even know I need it. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: do that on purpose, Yes, And I have gotten a
Speaker 1: lot better because I've been doing it for so long.
Speaker 1: Like I can go I can go into Target and
Speaker 1: I'm not bragging, but like I can go into Target
Speaker 1: for what I went in there for and not come
Speaker 1: out with anything else. I mean, I like don't want
Speaker 1: to brag, but like I could do that. This is
Speaker 1: a side note too, but I have a fifteen dollar
Speaker 1: gift card to Target. And I'm not joking. I've been
Speaker 1: there twice and I can't spend it. I know that
Speaker 1: that makes me just like off the charts, I'm an outlet,
Speaker 1: but can relate to all of our listeners. But it
Speaker 1: was such a phenomenon. I'm like, why can't I spend?
Speaker 1: And what I think I realized is I did want
Speaker 1: a lot of things, and a lot of them were
Speaker 1: more than fifteen dollars, And it's like, oh, I want this.
Speaker 1: I want to make this a really special purchase, Like
Speaker 1: I want whatever I spend this fifteen dollars on to
Speaker 1: be like really meaningful. I don't just want to buy
Speaker 1: like a toilet bowl brush with it, and so I
Speaker 1: just can't do it exactly. Yeah, Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: love it all right. Number three is you're the competitive spender.
Speaker 1: You feel like your purchases are always competing with others.
Speaker 1: And it's got this sweet Laguna beach gift like throwback
Speaker 1: if if you're old like us, where Elsie is trying
Speaker 1: to buy a golf club and who knows why, but
Speaker 1: I can only imagine because she's buying stuff to fit
Speaker 1: in with a crowd or give the appearance that she's
Speaker 1: of a certain socio economic status. Know, sometimes I think
Speaker 1: that that's me because it's not like I don't feel
Speaker 1: like competition with other people, but I do often look
Speaker 1: like at what especially online and things that have brought
Speaker 1: to my attention through social media, I'm like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw somebody was carrying a really nice pocketbook the
Speaker 1: other day, and I'm like, oh, I really like that.
Speaker 1: I want that. But it wasn't like I didn't feel
Speaker 1: competitive with this person. I'm just thinking, oh, I like that,
Speaker 1: I might want them too. Sometimes I feel like that
Speaker 1: my dream car is a Is Alexis r X three fifty,
Speaker 1: which is my dream car after like once my children
Speaker 1: go to college. So I'm like, you know, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine. I can't imagine. Uh So, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that was like I want to. I wanted to purely status,
Speaker 1: like there's no reason I need Alexis. But girls, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: see you could justify those pert you can get it used.
Speaker 1: We had that very car and we got it. You did, yes, alright,
Speaker 1: so spender four you buy stuff to make a new you.
Speaker 1: So there's nothing wrong with making changes in yourself, nor
Speaker 1: is there anything wrong with using things like clothing or
Speaker 1: hairstyles to express yourself. But it's worth noting that if
Speaker 1: you're unhappy with the aspects of yourself, buying a quote
Speaker 1: unquote new you by getting a whole new wardrobe, moving
Speaker 1: apartments and so on is not the answer to dealing
Speaker 1: with the real questions you have about yourself. Amen. Sorry, Jill,
Speaker 1: I don't think you're on this list now that you've
Speaker 1: said the gift card thing. I don't know if we're
Speaker 1: going to find you number five. You find yourself buying
Speaker 1: and returning a lot the buyer and returner. So return
Speaker 1: policies are great and they're there for a reason. But
Speaker 1: if you find yourself frequently buying items and then returning them,
Speaker 1: it might be a sign the purchases are being made
Speaker 1: on impulse. No, I find that a deterrent, frankly, because
Speaker 1: I don't want to be involved in the returning process.
Speaker 1: Same work. But that's happening now with COVID. You can't
Speaker 1: try things on at the store, so you got to
Speaker 1: buy it and return it. That was I think I
Speaker 1: just told you that story. I had to buy jeans
Speaker 1: the other week and I couldn't tread them on in
Speaker 1: the store, so I told the person at checkouts like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to buy these and I'll be right back
Speaker 1: for bears, and then came back and returned to sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: you should take that home to your COVID environment at
Speaker 1: home and then bring it back to the store. Right.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just going to the bathroom. That's it.
Speaker 1: I'm just going right right down the road. Um. Six.
Speaker 1: Is spending money in a way to celebrate yourself or
Speaker 1: the treat yourself spender? Yes, it's totally normal to want
Speaker 1: to go out and celebrate when good things happened to you,
Speaker 1: like a promotion or finally achieving a personal accomplishment. However,
Speaker 1: if you feel like you constantly need to spend money
Speaker 1: on a new item or experience as a means of
Speaker 1: treating yourself, it might mean that you're using spending as
Speaker 1: a way to connect with yourself at a big emotional distance.
Speaker 1: Wow deep, All right, Yeah, I don't do this often,
Speaker 1: but when I do, yeah, it's definitely a treat myself situation.
Speaker 1: And also that is related to food, like I often
Speaker 1: want food to be a treat. And also you all know,
Speaker 1: if you've been listening for any amount of time, I
Speaker 1: really don't like cooking. Uh, it feels like a waste
Speaker 1: of my time, the entire process. So yeah, I will
Speaker 1: often just okay, this is fine because I need food,
Speaker 1: which is true, I do need food, but then like
Speaker 1: I take it a step further and like, oh and
Speaker 1: I need it to really taste good and I need
Speaker 1: it to be from this nice place, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: need to treat myself. Yeah, and we did that. We
Speaker 1: just recently celebrated three years of being debt free and
Speaker 1: spend money getting a nice dinner. But we did have
Speaker 1: a gift card. So the gift card bit like happen,
Speaker 1: it is worth celebrating, Like I'm not. I don't think
Speaker 1: that there's like and on my birthday. I so my
Speaker 1: birthday recently happened. And every year it seems that my
Speaker 1: husband just like takes me shopping, which I really don't shop.
Speaker 1: You've you've just heard. But on my birthday, I just
Speaker 1: feel like, Yep, today is the day, if there's gonna
Speaker 1: be any day that I spend money. So I do
Speaker 1: go a little hog wild on my birthday. But then
Speaker 1: that's it, and that that that's my day to do
Speaker 1: what I want. I mean, really, I bought necessities. I
Speaker 1: did but I enjoyed the process of that and treating
Speaker 1: myself in that way. Yes, but those are positive feelings,
Speaker 1: so it's not like you keep any negative feelings, and
Speaker 1: it's not on a regular occurrence. Your birthday is one thing.
Speaker 1: It's if you move the budget and you went crazy
Speaker 1: and you put yourself in debt for a year by
Speaker 1: buying on your birthday, then then a different outcome. But
Speaker 1: I think super smart the way you have. Well thanks
Speaker 1: guys for this, like pep talk. Or if you start
Speaker 1: spending like quote unquote for your birthday, like three months
Speaker 1: ahead of your birthday, then at that point you're probably
Speaker 1: not spending for your Usually my husband does buy me
Speaker 1: a gift and then he takes me shopping and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how much is this birthday costing us? Too? I said
Speaker 1: that to my husband, I said, what are you doing
Speaker 1: for my birthday? Yeah? Okay, last spender. And this one's
Speaker 1: probably my favorite. It's uh, you spend. It's the stressed shopper.
Speaker 1: It says you spend when you're stressed about money, and
Speaker 1: it has the gift where the guy is like, it says,
Speaker 1: bacon is on sale, so we get it all and
Speaker 1: he's just throwing all the bacon into his cart, which
Speaker 1: is obviously if you don't have money, you shouldn't buy
Speaker 1: all the sale bacon. Um. But yeah, so this one
Speaker 1: particularly tough to deal with. If you're stressed about money,
Speaker 1: it can sometimes feel like you're so far in the
Speaker 1: financial hole that you don't know how to handle it.
Speaker 1: So what do you tempted to do satiate the unhappiness
Speaker 1: or stressed by going out to dinner or upgrading your TV?
Speaker 1: Quote unquote why you can because you're unsure what the
Speaker 1: future holds. And like, this is word for word what
Speaker 1: I felt while before we started paying off debt, Like
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm so in the hole it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: so I might as well buy what I have with
Speaker 1: the money I have now because eventually I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: in the poorhouse. So a lot of that is not
Speaker 1: an uncommon thought process with clients, and what we we
Speaker 1: actually try to be very specific because when clients come
Speaker 1: to us to resolve their debt, they often say, all right, well,
Speaker 1: what's the difference If I'm going to resolve it this way,
Speaker 1: I'll just max out the card or I'll I'll take
Speaker 1: cash advances off my car. What's the difference if we're
Speaker 1: going to renegotiating and consolidating or refinancing it or whatever
Speaker 1: we're gonna be doing with it, and we have to
Speaker 1: say do not. From this point on, there's no more spending.
Speaker 1: So even though that is that is a very common
Speaker 1: thought process that I'm have so much debt anyway, what's
Speaker 1: the difference if I add to it? It's like putting
Speaker 1: blinders on, Like it's so much that I can't look
Speaker 1: at it. So now I'm gonna know nothing about it
Speaker 1: and just keep going with how I've been going. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so I've put a band aid on the bleeding or
Speaker 1: the stop them stop it, yeah and lead out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh god, well, Leslie, thanks so much for coming on
Speaker 1: the show. This was such a great episode. This was
Speaker 1: so fun, so wise, um and where can people find
Speaker 1: more about you what you've got going on? So thank
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. This was fun. And
Speaker 1: you can find me at my website which is teen
Speaker 1: law dot com. You can also find me personally on
Speaker 1: Twitter at Leslie h ten E s Q. Of course
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn and um Facebook, Instagram at teen t a
Speaker 1: y an E law group, and of course you're welcome
Speaker 1: to um, call me, send emails the uh. We have
Speaker 1: a great newsletter that we send out on finances and
Speaker 1: budgeting and lots of fun tips, so feel free to
Speaker 1: reach out. Yes, you are everywhere, so wherever wherever you
Speaker 1: are listening to this from you can find Leslie somewhere.
Speaker 1: So thanks again for being on the show. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Is your emotional spending type still true? Jen? I am
Speaker 1: in a little different place in my life than I
Speaker 1: was then, so I don't so much shop to escape anymore.
Speaker 1: I think if I'm going to purchase something to escape,
Speaker 1: it's definitely my getting coffee at the coffee shop to
Speaker 1: work that uh that I do once a week, so
Speaker 1: that's kind of my escape. So yeah, it's it has
Speaker 1: changed a little bit. I'm in a different season of life.
Speaker 1: I'm about to be back in that season. But that's
Speaker 1: another story. How about you, it's probably still the same.
Speaker 1: I really, spending isn't my go to to cope with emotions.
Speaker 1: It's not saying that everything is healthy in my life.
Speaker 1: But if I were to that would probably be the
Speaker 1: circumstances would be the more treat yourself approach. But spending
Speaker 1: is not typically what I turned to. I guess that's
Speaker 1: good since we host a podcast about this, but we
Speaker 1: all have moments where we will rely on this, so
Speaker 1: it's always good to have a reminder. Even when you
Speaker 1: start to overcome more and more of these triggers, you
Speaker 1: are never immune to all of them, so it's always
Speaker 1: good to have a reminder. So thank you for listening
Speaker 1: and getting that reminder. We know a lot of you
Speaker 1: are trying to control your spending so that you can
Speaker 1: pay off debt, and we actually have a monthly challenge
Speaker 1: club for you, just for you, and we offer accountability
Speaker 1: groups and those monthly money challenges. We want to congratulate
Speaker 1: one of our members for a big win. That's Katie,
Speaker 1: she says, goal accomplished. I earned a hundred thirty nine
Speaker 1: dollars and sixty eight since this month just by dry
Speaker 1: having around during my free time. I hate sitting at home,
Speaker 1: and my car gets good cast mileage, so win win.
Speaker 1: This was during our debt payoff challenge where everyone had
Speaker 1: to make at least a hundred dollars extra from a
Speaker 1: side hustle to put towards that. So way to go, Katie,
Speaker 1: well done. Congratulations making money while driving around. That's great.
Speaker 1: You get to see your neighborhood, more to your community. Yes,
Speaker 1: so thanks again for listening. If you want to check
Speaker 1: out our monthly challenge community had to Frugal Friends podcast
Speaker 1: dot com slash club to see what challenges we've done
Speaker 1: and what we've got coming up. See you next time.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Syrian. What is the
Speaker 1: last thing you bought? Jen? Oh, I just purchased groceries.
Speaker 1: I picked up my groceries this morning. Yeah that makes sense. Oh,
Speaker 1: yesterday so fun. This was very fun. Actually, it was
Speaker 1: a long night, and so I got up in the
Speaker 1: morning because my body does not allow me to sleep
Speaker 1: past seven am. And Kay and I went and tried
Speaker 1: a new bakery, as I often tried to hit up
Speaker 1: like a local bakery on the weekends most weekends, not
Speaker 1: every weekend, And so we tried a new one and
Speaker 1: we actually ran into our friends Ash and Neo Mayah
Speaker 1: and their two kids. They were also trying for the
Speaker 1: first time. Neither of us communicated that we were going
Speaker 1: to this bakery and we showed up there at the
Speaker 1: same time. Was it good? It was it good food?
Speaker 1: It was fantastic. Yeah, oh yeah, I love finding new places. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a goal to try a chocolate croissant from
Speaker 1: every bakery in the city. Oh, that's a great goal.
Speaker 1: Chocolate croissance and a drip coffee, but I got an
Speaker 1: Americano yesterday, so yeah, or a cappuccino. Those are my
Speaker 1: usually my go to So that's a fun treat yourself.
Speaker 1: But it sounds planned, So I don't know if you
Speaker 1: can qualify that under emotional spending. It is typically planned,
Speaker 1: but I don't always plan where, like which bakery it
Speaker 1: will be. That is still spontaneous. I like flexibility, but
Speaker 1: you can only have flexibility with some sort of underlying structure.
Speaker 1: Otherwise just more I couldn't agree more. Yeah, how about you, Jill.
Speaker 1: Lunch just now bought lunch. We have no food in
Speaker 1: the house currently because my mother in law has been
Speaker 1: here and y'all know she cooks for me when she's
Speaker 1: in town, so I haven't kept much on hand, and
Speaker 1: then we're about to go away on vacation, so it
Speaker 1: just hasn't made any sense. But then we needed lunch,
Speaker 1: so we went and we paid someone else to make
Speaker 1: that for us. Good tree. Did you enjoy it? It
Speaker 1: was very good. Yeah. We went to uh spot that
Speaker 1: serves up Asian Street Fair, you know the spot jenl
Speaker 1: You guys love that place. So it was good. Well,
Speaker 1: we've got a friend visiting. She came in, she flew
Speaker 1: in this morning, she flies out tomorrow. It's like a
Speaker 1: quick twenty four hour or so. I also had to
Speaker 1: feed her there. You had to show her the spots,
Speaker 1: you know, to food, every food, buying money on his food,
Speaker 1: and you too, bakery, groceries, lunch and so what we
Speaker 1: spend on. We love it. See you at dinner