WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Patrice Rushen 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.159 Of course, Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:08.200 This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.200 Ladies and gentlemen, this is Quels classic. My name is 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.120 Quess Love. And we go back into the archives November 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:21.239 two thousand eighteen, and we interview the legendary exquisite Patrese Russian. 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:38.280 We hope you enjoy Suprema Suprema role called Suprema Suprema 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:46.840 role called subprima Suprema role called Suprema saprima role called 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:52.720 president production genius. Their piano flowers singer. Yeah, it's Patres Russian. Yeah, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:01:02.360 he k baby fingers Suprema roll call, Suprema Subprema roll 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.600 My name is Fante. Yeah, and I got to yawn, yeah, 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.960 because I've been up, oh man since before the dawn? 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:19.360 Um roll? How is my listen? Wrimam road calls in 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.880 the house. Yeah, like the Eagles best of Yeah, I'm 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.640 not the host of this show. Yeah, settle for quest 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:36.440 love Prima Suprema roll call, repeating Prima Suprema roll call. Yeah, 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.960 I forget it not Yeah, Patres Russian. Yeah, a black 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:46.319 girl who walks BA call su Prima sub prima roll 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:52.640 call su Prima sub Primo roll call, Sugar. Yeah, I 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.520 brought this album in. Yeah, because it's called Before the 0:01:55.640 --> 0:02:08.360 Dawn Supremo Roma Fremo roll Call. This is Patrese. Yeah, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.320 I got no rhyme. Yeah, but I am here. Yeah, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:19.160 I'm gonna have a good time. Fremo roll call, So 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:36.280 Prema so Fremo roll call, So Frema Fremo roll call. See, 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.239 I didn't know. I didn't know you had already. You're 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.040 supposed to talk about her later stuff. I'm talking about 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:52.240 the jash Ship. Wait listen, let's just re capt our audiences. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:57.280 We're gonna recompetilate for our audience now. About usually about 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.560 three minutes before every taping, I I just give a courtey, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.400 a courtesy check to all the members of the team 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.600 Supreme to see if they're ready to do their verses. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:09.560 And of course the guest has always startled like I'm 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.519 you know, it's three minutes of putting out fires. And 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:22.280 today Steve, Steve you Bill took my turn. What happened 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:26.280 was that Steve was not because on the right, and 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.560 we already discussed we wouldn't say forget me, nas wouldn't 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.840 say sound for you. Love and you know, yeah, it 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:33.720 was because I was like I thought, I was like, okay, 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.000 remind me. I'm like, okay, somebody's gonna remind me. I 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.320 was going to do all remind me, reminded, and then 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.000 it was okay, feel so real. I'm like, all right, 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.760 maybe that one but before the dawn. So yeah, but 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.800 had the nerve to like I can't think of an 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:55.840 I roll? Yeah, like, how dare you ask me? Am? 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.960 I prepared? I am the I am the Steve take 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.280 a lot of pride in his role. I had the 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:12.640 same thing too, I had gone thing damn all right, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:21.680 no hard feelings, prick feelings. Wait, gentlemen, welcome, this is 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.800 what our day is going to be like the Supreme. Yes, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.599 welcome to another episode of course of Supreme. Question love 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.880 your host? Uh, I don't know. I'm also in like 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.279 twenty minutes or hours of sleep. Yeah. We have Team 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.920 Supreme with us, we have Facolo everything. How's it going? 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.600 Everything's good man, Happy to be here, I've been This 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.039 is one interview I've been wanting to do since we started. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.400 Quesse of Supreme. Yes, like she's been on my wish 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.240 list from day one. Yeah, so this is a dream 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:55.440 come true. It happen. Yes, come on, I'm doing good 0:04:55.720 --> 0:05:00.080 in Capital Rush. That's right. We're in the home of 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:06.880 uh this this NATS NATS room. Yeah yeah, so yeah, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.800 we're in the Capitol Building. This is my first time here. 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.760 We also have uh, I've been here more than you. Well, 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.640 you work for Universal, So I never went here when 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.640 I when I worked here or I worked for Universal. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.920 So what did you do here? I had a friend 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.719 that worked here, and I just came to visit friends 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:32.599 all my friends I did, and we have a sugar 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.040 Steed with us. Any other factories about the building. I'm 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.720 certain that you were here now hours before we were. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.840 I was. But I was here twenty five years ago 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.360 trying to sneak in the front door and made it 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.560 as far as the lobby. It's got the excuse me, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.920 please leave kind of thing. Came back? Now? Is that 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.240 beautiful story? And now you in here? So you you 0:05:55.320 --> 0:06:00.360 got ejected, You got Jazzy Jeff out there. Yeah, this 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.560 was before I was even engineering. I was just here 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.040 like trying to check out the building and stuff. Okay, yeah, 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:11.160 that's cool, ladies and gentlemen, our guest today. Um, I 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:16.040 can say that you know We often throw, uh throw 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.920 the word musical genius or musical innovator around a lot, 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.840 but I will say that our guest today is is 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.360 pretty much UM lives up to that title UM as 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:34.279 a musician, as a singer, composer, arranger, UM and soul 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:40.680 training dancer. Yeah. Question, and I'd like to know if 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.480 the sounds that you're right do they relate to any 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.400 of your past experiences or do you just write sperato? 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.080 You got to interview Build Withers. That's amazing. Ladies, wait 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.679 before we get please walcome to the quest of Supreme 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.720 Patrice Russian. Thank you, thank you. How are you today? 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.080 I'm great? Thank you, Sorry for the crazy energy we 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:05.000 just she was happy to get out today. A good 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.040 all good? So how are you every Everything's fine, Everything's 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.440 been beautiful, you know, doing a lot of different things. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.880 UM school just started, you know, the the chair of 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.920 the popular music program at the University of Southern California. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:28.360 So we're back. Dr Russian, I am that too. That 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.120 one that's from the Berkeley College of Music. Okay, yeah, 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:41.000 from doctor years ago? Yes, okay, tradition, Where were you born? 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.960 I was born in Los Angeles, California, right, here in 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.040 l a yep, in the heart of Partner from the 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:55.600 People's Republic of Watts. I'm from south central Okay. So 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.080 your childhood, uh I want to know how music entered it, 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.440 But what was your childhood into? Music was just part 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.360 of the air. You know, the radio was always on. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.560 My parents watched television. I was never without TV. So 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.240 your parents weren't sings, not at all, not at all, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.720 not at all. In fact, really music lovers. They belonged to, 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:26.160 ah they used to have a record club that they 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.160 would send you a record a month. So my parents 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.959 belonged to this record club and they would send these records. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.480 And so there was always music in our house just 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.319 because they just loved music. I mean like Columbia House, 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:45.600 Columbia exactly, exactly. And so music of all types, classical music, jazz, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.200 gospel music, anything you didn't know what you were going 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.320 to get. And uh so on Saturdays when we would 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.200 be cleaning up the house, they would put a stack 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.680 of records on. Because you know that you guys are 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.360 a little young to remember you never have even been here. 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.520 It sounds on the turn tables. You know, you have 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.320 a spindle and you stack your records and they would 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.840 drop down the whole stack up records, and we were 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:14.880 supposed to have that house clean by the time you 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:22.760 got the last one, so sometimes you just had to 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.559 keep going tell that last record. So I heard a 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.640 lot of different kinds of music. And then growing up 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.360 in l A, you know, we had the Latino population 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.599 and so there was a lot of the influence of 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.559 that music. Of course, the music of the church, Black church. Um, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.400 I learned to play the piano visa classical music because 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.720 that was how you learned back then, the study study 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.439 of the tradition of that instrument. Then when did you 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.839 start playing? Started playing when I was about five and 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.040 I was in this experimental of course, I went to 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.760 the six years difference between my younger sister and I. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.840 So my parents put me in a nurse school program 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.160 while they worked when when I was a kid, and 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.640 the teacher there was really musical and she's the one 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.960 that really noticed that during the day, when we would 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.000 do any musical or movement to music activity, that's when 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.960 I would, you know, really shine. Yeah, So they said, 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.079 all of us beautiful, So what do we do? And 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.440 she knew about this program that was designed four young kids. 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.079 That was actually happening at USC. It was a graduate 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:34.040 course for music education majors. It was called Rhythmics, and 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:41.040 they were designing programs for uh little kids who just 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.520 seemed to be gifted in music. They were developing studies 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.760 that this is pre you know, early childhood development stuff 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:49.199 that we just say for granted now because that's just 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.400 a part of the way we rolled now, But back 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.599 then that was still new here. So I was a 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.679 part of this class and I went through this program, 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.200 started playing that was when I was three, started playing 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:03.679 when I was five because they said, you want to 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.960 play an instrument now, right, So I did that piano 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.520 was chosen for me and stayed in that program right 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.000 up and through through high school. And so there are 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:16.880 a few of us that I met a few people 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:22.440 rolling through there. I met pianist Billy Childs roll through there. Uh. 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:27.120 There was a some some amazing people that have since 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:32.079 you know, used their background there to start doing film scoring. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.320 A guy named Nathan Wang. There's there's plenty of people 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.880 that I saw go through there. The conductor of the 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:44.800 UH San Francisco UH Symphony, Michael Tilson Thomas. He used 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.079 to be coming out of his piano lesson as I 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.599 was going into mind. And so these were people that 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.439 I just kind of ran into. I didn't know then, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:56.439 but then seeing them years later. Um, that idea of 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:01.439 that spark as a kid is a big deal, and 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.320 we take it for granted. But that's why I'm such 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.920 a big proponent of exposing kids to music, not just 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.040 just have it going so they can't hear it. We 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.760 recently had Bobby McFerrin on the show, and he said 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.800 some similar things because he started out kind of parallel 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.040 with you, like six years old and the music program 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.960 and just and then the composer and the conductor thing 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.960 and his his his dad was an amazing operaction we learned. Yeah, 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:32.000 so that exposure is like kind of critical and one 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.839 of the things that um, I hope we will um 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.720 find a way to kind of uh put back into 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.199 our just daily lives is you know, we used to 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.160 see music on TV. We watched people dance to music 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.280 just as a matter of course, like this is what 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.000 music does to just the average person. Uh So you 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.880 saw people moving to music. You heard music on television 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.720 all the time with shows with live band I mean, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:02.959 coming up out here, it was like wow, when you 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.760 would see an orchestra on TV or playing the Grammy 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:08.880 Awards or playing one of those big shows, it's like, 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.200 m I want to do that. You wake up? Yeah, 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.160 and you know I was always looking at stuff. And 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:21.360 then the theme songs of shows, you know, of just 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.880 sitcoms or of series. That was a big deal because 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.760 you know, you could you could recognize what was about 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.400 to come on. You be in the kitchen, here's something 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.160 and be like, oh, song songs on or you know, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.439 sometimes it would be the theme right in my head, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.679 give me a break. And those are not Those are 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.079 not easy to do when you figured that, Wow, the 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.959 composer is going to put together something that's gonna have 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.640 so memorable in a very short period of time. That's 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.840 gonna set the tone for a television show. And people 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.839 are that's really falling off though if you really think 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.920 about it, right, like what themes so throws today? Do 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.600 you really know besides doom doom, strange things? They don't 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.240 exist anymore because there's something at time the time that 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.360 was supposed to be for themes. It's so I got 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:13.840 to do. I got to do a couple of them, 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.120 which I was really happy about. I did the Steve 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:24.240 Harvey Show. In fact, we recorded it here. I did 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.000 most of the television stuff that I did here, some 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.400 other ones, but remop well we did. I did the 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:34.200 Image the Image Awards for about thirteen years straight. Oh man, 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.040 and you're always uh in the booth, in the in 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.480 the pit. Yes, how was music director of the show. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.160 I'd be conducting, didn't have to play at the same time, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.880 such great fun, worked with so many um amazing artists, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.960 and working in the medium of television actually was what 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.960 I wanted to do that. That's what I want to be. 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:57.920 That was your initial point. That was my initial plan. 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.120 I wanted. I watched so much to be I wanted 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.360 to be in there. I wanted to do that so 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.960 just I love the music, so I said, I wanted to, 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.840 but I didn't know the past, you know, to get there. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.640 So later, um, you know, I knew I needed to 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.920 stay in Los Angeles. But as I kind of went 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.920 through public school system and stuff like that, I went 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.720 to a high school, uh Ela and Lee Roy at 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.720 Lock High School, and it was there really where I 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.240 figured out what I kind of wanted to do and 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.040 how I was going to use I had had music 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.880 in my life, my whole life. But I didn't know 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:37.320 what I was gonna do with it because I see 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.720 many people look like me doing it. So okay, since 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.800 you you have an actual education in music maybe and 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.800 you're from uh the West Coast. Is kind of a 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:52.920 two part question. One in in California, was there a 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:58.080 specific kind of fall off or waning period of where 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.000 they started to take the music education Asian out the schools, 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.360 because I know that in the sixties especially, and uh 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.360 in the seventies. Uh well, I mean I went to 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.960 performing arts school. But even then, like when in the 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.560 seventies when I was in elementary school, there was like 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.280 trumpet lessons and that sort of thing, and then like 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.320 come the eighties and it just totally you know, it's 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.280 just sports and that's it. Was there a period in 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:26.520 which that that fell off in Los Angeles where yeah, 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.800 it seems like it seems like it started in the 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.080 middle seventies and by the time we got to the eighties, 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.840 it was almost gone. There are special programs and things 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.120 like that, but in terms of music just being in 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.680 the schools because it's supposed to be something that people 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.520 do have around a well rounded education, that that did 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.440 start to go away, and I think that um, I 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:57.400 probably got out of the l a uh City school 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.360 since we graduated from that. Just at the big getting 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.720 of when you could see the the funds and the 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.440 uh the idea of doing that kind of going away, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.760 they started trying to rather than have separate school programs, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.920 they did try to put some community type programs together 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.760 where you had several schools, which is a good idea, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.400 had several schools that would do stuff. But in terms 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.040 of I was, I was at probably the one of 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.680 the schools, one of the few that had a very 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.960 very strong music program. Out of that program came a 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.240 lot of musicians. Uh. They were there at the school 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.560 the same time. Gerald Albright Sex from player in the 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.280 late in Duty Chances, he was there. We were there 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.480 at the same time. This elementary or high school. This 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.840 is high school. This is high school. He didn't even 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:52.000 give recorders out of high school anymore, remember like everybody. Yeah, 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:54.840 So we were in bands and orchestra and jazz band 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.040 and things like that, and our teachers were pretty innovative 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.680 at that time. They had the that to keep the 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:07.560 kids who are in the community focused on that as 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.800 opposed to outside influence. If you're gonna be in a gang, 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.080 and you need to be in the marching band, that's 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:19.080 the biggest gang. So we had music as a as 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.320 sort of the platform and the jumping off point to 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:28.560 study history, to study social graces, to learn about things 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.040 outside of our neighborhood, outside of ourselves, and those of 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:37.000 us who did opt to be professionals had sort of 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.639 a point of view on the different kinds and different 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.679 styles of being a professional musician. There were those who 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.040 went on the road that played, but there were also 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.960 those nameless faces that played, uh in the studios. And 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.920 there were people who wrote things, and there were people 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.960 who arrange things, and people who actually literally copied music 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.479 before the software that we that we now use as 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.640 as music publishing software. Uh So there were all these 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.080 different lifestyles and of being a musician that we were 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.840 exposed to being in Los Angeles, and a lot of 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.119 us wanted that skill set that would allow us to 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.320 do any of it, all of it. When you said 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:18.879 that you were when you were young, you said you 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.359 played like classical. What was some of the pieces you 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.479 would play? What was some of your favorite stuff to play? Oh? Well, 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.000 you know, I had to learn the classical repertoire left 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:27.640 Bach a lot of box in. My hands are small, 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.000 so my teacher really worked a long time to develop 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.639 a certain kind of strength so that the fact that 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.119 my hands were small wasn't gonna be any pitfall when 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.639 I got the larger work. So I played bagging a 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.920 lot of Mozart and a lot of hiding. Then I 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:53.399 played uh, Beethoven, my man, and then you know, bigger 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:58.359 pieces and stuff. But but the piano for me spoke 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.480 to me in a certain way. But it was the 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.200 It was the playing with other people because piano, I 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.320 was playing a lot, a lot alone until I got 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.560 to high school and was playing in different ensembles. And 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.480 I learned to play the flute because I wanted to 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:21.040 a case and you can't get the kids had a case. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:22.920 I know exactly how she feels because I was just 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.320 drummer in school and like I wasn't looking my biggest 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.240 snare drumming. It's all over, So yeah, I know exactly. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.959 I learned to play the flute, and that that experience 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.080 of being inside of an orchestra flutes in the in 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.520 the middle or in a band where it flutes it 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.480 on the side that is what gave me a perspective 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.520 with like I want to write. I want to write 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:48.120 for these kinds of ensembles. I love this. I want 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.800 to jump on your question. I'm glad you asked this 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:56.480 because okay, as a as a person that samples, were 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.119 you leading to you remind me what? No, no, no, no, no, 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.760 I want well, okay, I all I want to ask 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:06.280 what you're uh your your practice regiment was at least 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:11.480 hour wise? Because um yeah, I was gonna say, I 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:18.440 you do at the top of you remind me you 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.840 don't have to quantize it like, well, we didn't. We 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.439 didn't have any sequences. I know that. But the timing, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.280 like as a person that knows like this particular artist 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.720 fluctuates and you might have to time stretch it or whatever. 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.480 You don't I know for a fact that you don't 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.240 have to do that on yours, and which tells me 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:41.359 that you're right hand is strong as hell. As far 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.240 as your what was your your as far as your 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.720 your your practice regiment, how many hours a day would 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:51.600 you Well, when I had time to practice, I didn't 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:53.600 take as much advantage of as I probably should have. 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:58.600 But there was a particular there's there's always you're going 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.080 to have certain technical actors sizes. This is my belief 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.600 was I was taught this way turtle technical exercises as 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.159 war as as warm ups that you have to do 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.080 just because you know you're developing a certain kind of 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.240 strength and everything, and you also got to be under control. 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.240 Then you work on the pieces that you're learning or 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:18.920 the song that you're trying to learn to play. And 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.040 um my teachers always emphasized if you want to learn 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:27.560 to play fast, play slow mm hmm. Get your accuracy 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.840 up exact exactly because you're trying its muscle memory as well, 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:33.720 which is hard to do when all you want to do, 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.200 but that's really that was really an important part of 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.200 developing a good technique is to play slowly. What was 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.640 it about Beethoven? Because I mean I hear classical music 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.200 and to me it just all sounds like classical music. 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.560 What in particularly was it about Beethoven's pieces as a composer, Like, 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:54.240 what did you like about his stuff? What set some 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.720 apart from everybody else? I think after playing so much 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:02.040 Bach with a lot a lot of single line harmonies 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:05.600 that are implied to be able to really play chords 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:12.040 was like, whoa, my man had some chords. And then 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.000 later you know, getting into revel and debut saying more 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.159 of the colors and things like that. Remember that quala 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.320 of this was happening at home. I'm hearing Duke Ellington 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:27.000 and Miles Davis and Ella Fitzgerald and Saravan and Perry 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.800 Como and Frank Sinatra. I'm hearing all this stuff on 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:34.960 these records that are dropping every Saturday. And so now 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:39.600 I'm starting to identify a relationship between the music that 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.200 I'm actually playing for my lessons, because that's what that represents, 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.879 and then the stuff that I'm hearing at church, and 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.080 then the stuff that I'm hearing on the radio and 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.520 see I'm a motown baby, and then the stuff that 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.480 my parents bought. I'm starting to hear this relationship. So 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:59.800 you didn't look down to pop music like most serious musicians. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:06.360 Was like pop music not at all, because for me, Um, 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:10.000 the music had a mood and a purpose and it 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:11.800 was motown at the time, right like when you say pop, 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:13.560 we're talking about at that time it was both. It 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:16.280 was motown and and then on the other Yet Beach 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:19.359 Boys and then Yet the Beatles, you had a lot 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:21.359 of things that were kind of converging it at the 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.280 same time. It's lidestone and all this stuff. You had 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.040 a lot of things converging at the same time. And No, 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:29.359 it was like it was music that you liked, the 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.120 music that you didn't like. It moved you or didn't 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.120 move you. You know, it didn't really matter in terms 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:36.320 of the category for me, you know, which is why 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.200 I can read it, read it, you know, Brahms and 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:49.200 James Brown, James Broms. So okay, because I know I 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:54.959 know the way that most U Northeast, Well you went 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.120 to Berkeley, see you already know what's something, how snobby 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:02.120 the East Coast is, the far as jazz musicianship is concerned, 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:05.280 the seriousness and kind of how they looked down on 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:12.199 the l A jazz scene. Were you at all aware 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:17.720 of the of the difference difference there was? There was 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:20.440 a perception for some reason, I never really got that 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:23.439 because all you had to do was come here. Look now. 0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:25.080 Did you have to look a little harder because it 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:28.200 wasn't staring you in the face at every corner? Yeah, 0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:31.640 but no, there was there was always, at least when 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.960 I was coming up there was always a scene here, 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:36.520 and musicians came here. There were a lot, there were clubs, 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:39.960 and this was part of a circuit. And we did 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:42.439 I guess you know, you can only do this at 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:44.960 a all black eye school. We went on field trips 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:54.879 that innovative, what did that permission? Slip? Look right? And 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:58.719 he would pick us up. But then we would sit 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:00.399 in the back have our fruit punch. So see, I 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:04.000 still I heard all of this music that was supposed 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:09.160 to be um uh indicative of what the East Coast 0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:11.439 vibe was like. Because if you're coming out here playing 0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:14.320 a two and it was like I said, and there 0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:17.160 was a scene here. If I was going to qualify anything, 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:22.760 I would say that there was a different awareness here, 0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:26.440 not necessarily better or worse, but different because you saw 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.960 all kinds of different musicians. So it wasn't only the 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:33.480 person playing at the club. You had to have mad 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:36.560 respect for the person who was playing at the student 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:38.280 in the studios too, because you know what they did 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:41.960 on their brakes, They read the stock market and tried 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:44.760 to decide where they were gonna take their yacht this 0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:49.720 next next vacation. Because they were worked every day just 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:53.600 as hard. They had to have mad skills and could 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:57.040 go home at night and rest with their family and 0:26:57.119 --> 0:27:01.359 then the beautiful. So we saw these different styles of 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:04.119 being a musician. I'm not saying one was better than 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:06.119 the other, but a hunger deeper a little bit on 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:08.760 the other side, and in that way, I don't know, 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:12.560 because it's like if you're aspiring to be the best 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:15.280 of what you do, or have the the idea of 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:19.879 being able to be uh so versatile, that you can 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:23.960 be a contributor on so many fronts, So we would, 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:26.800 you know, I could come and sit down and watch 0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:32.080 Quincy Jones in a in a studio and all the 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:36.760 musicians that were there playing that music for those television shows. 0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:40.639 And then I could go to the jazz club, you know, 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:44.600 and here Farrell Sanders or Orbie Hancock or somebody like that. 0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:49.200 And then I could talk to a George Duke, or 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:53.000 I could talk to uh Gerald Wilson about his big 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:56.760 band writing. I never left Los Angeles to do any 0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.720 of that. It was all available to me, and all 0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:04.080 of these different takes on this idea of music as 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:08.760 a lifestyle allowed for me to be able to find 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.760 many ways to achieve my goal, which was I didn't 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.520 want to do anything else. I just wanted to have 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:17.359 a career where I could do music. As a quick question, 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:19.720 like what was George do like? Because he's the person 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:21.640 that I mean godress and so like we I would 0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:23.159 have loved to get him on the show, but like 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:26.000 what was what was he like just as a musician, 0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:27.560 as a person, what was it like working with him? 0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:31.800 Georgia's like just kind of like you would see him 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:36.080 like super Joviel, He's really one of the musicians. Because 0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:40.720 I had a little more access to him, who kind 0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:46.880 of without saying it, embodied what it was that I 0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:49.160 thought I wanted to do because he could do anything. 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:52.400 He could He could write orchestro music. He was a 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:59.720 great producer Haut and the stuff. And I heard it 0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:08.760 Team Billions. Yeah, no, I saw it, so no I 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:11.400 knew what it took, you know, to to do that 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:13.240 kind of thing. And George was doing it all and 0:29:13.360 --> 0:29:15.760 always uh I was with a smile. And when he 0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:17.360 would produce a lot of times he would call me 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:22.000 to play. Were there were there notable not where they 0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:25.880 are notable shows, but was there a notable concert performance 0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:31.440 that you saw as a youngster that it was finally 0:29:31.600 --> 0:29:36.160 your moment of eureka, like, Okay, this is this is 0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:38.640 what I want to do professionally for the rest of 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:41.240 my life. Like what was what was a mind changing 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:46.080 or life altering? There were a few, um, you know, 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.520 like I said, I really liked orchestral music a lot. 0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:53.120 So when I would watch back in the day, there 0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:56.520 was a Grammy orchestra that was on TV playing for 0:29:56.600 --> 0:30:02.000 everybody like wow, And when I saw Quincy Jones conduct 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:07.000 that orchestra, okay, and then I paid more attention to 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:11.120 the other live orchestras on TV. Who's who Who's conducting 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:16.719 the Emmys, Well, Who's well, who's who's conducting the Tony's Well, 0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:19.960 who's conducting the Oscars? I wanted to know what that 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:23.720 process was because that's that's because everyone would be like 0:30:24.040 --> 0:30:33.480 Stevie Wonder and You're like, that's three different checks. Well 0:30:33.560 --> 0:30:37.360 the idea. The idea was that you know, I loved 0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:41.520 commercial music. I'll just put it under that big umbrella 0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:46.800 and that encompasses everything. I love jazz, I love popping 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:48.640 to music. I'll see I see all of these things 0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:51.840 as branches of the same tree. But music director and conducting, 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:54.400 can you break that down? Because what that's about. Yeah. 0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:56.239 Like the difference is because most people because I look 0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:58.160 at you, what I'm thinking of? Okay, well Adam, but no, 0:30:58.280 --> 0:31:00.680 he doesn't conduct, he's just the music direct not just 0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:05.080 but it well the music. You know, the definition has 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:07.479 kind of morphed into some other things, but the idea 0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:09.840 of it, the concept of music direction, is that that's 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:14.640 the individual that is in those of shows who is 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:20.560 responsible for the music happening. Now, it can take on 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:25.000 different forms. Sometimes you're the one who actually would pick 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:27.160 the musicians. Sometimes you're the one who has to pick 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:31.040 the musicians and also be the catalyst for what the 0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:32.720 sound of the music is going to be as far 0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:36.600 as the writing is concerned, what people are gonna play. Um, 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:43.040 you're usually the translator from what the producers in the 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:46.320 show and the directors what they want to do and 0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:52.360 then what has that happens happen musically anyway, and uh, 0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:55.640 you know, you're the person who really speaks with the 0:31:55.760 --> 0:32:00.440 musicians and the other designated cast of music people to 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.280 get it done, whether that's the arrangers, the pre going 0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:06.720 into a studio to pre record something for the show. 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:09.640 I want to make those You make all the meetings, 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:18.040 how hard is it to elbow room, uh yourself into 0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:21.520 that situation. Okay, I'll put it out there like right now, 0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:27.720 Ricky Mannus cover problem. No, I'm just saying that he's 0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:30.800 he's the guy. He ain't buzzing, you know what I mean, 0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:34.320 And I wouldn't even Yeah, so's you'll have to take 0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:39.440 me out. Has I mean your mind, Rickey Minor is 0:32:39.520 --> 0:32:45.640 where like he has things Rickey Minor has let's Rickey minus. Basically, 0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:49.920 I mean he's the musical go to director at the moment. 0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:55.480 What I realized now isn't necessarily and there's no shade, 0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:59.680 no dig whatever. I realized that, Um, a lot of 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.479 positions in Hollywood are based on how you nuance your 0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:07.680 relationships with the people in power, and so a lot 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:12.640 of the times is just you know, I think you know, 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.239 to to her or to anyone in this room speaking now, 0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:17.480 it's like, oh, man, to get a project like that 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:20.120 would be amazing. But I think to a higher up 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:24.240 at at a movie company or whatever I mean, musical director, 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:26.000 it could sort of be like a band aid or 0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:31.320 something like an afterthought. And usually with afterthought situations, well, 0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:33.920 you're thinking about your actress, your actor, your director, and 0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:37.760 all that, your producer and all that stuff. Nine times 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:40.480 out of tend you just go with your instinctual Okay, 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:44.400 who who Who's who delivers? And usually who delivers mainly 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:48.600 like who shows up on time? Who's not trouble who 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:52.560 can yeah? Who? Yeah? Yeah? Exactly? Who can deliver consistent work? 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:55.000 You know what I mean? Because I mean we can 0:33:55.040 --> 0:34:03.000 all attest that some of our favorite geniuses can be troublesome. 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:07.560 So it's like, who's consistent? And you know a lot 0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:09.960 of times I'll hear of a project happening in the 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:12.919 wings and I'm like, I can get it, and damn 0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:16.480 Ricky got it? Again? What kind of project Ricky had 0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:19.680 the monopoly on? You feel like, uh, Ricky's definitely gonna 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:24.359 go to for like, uh, the Grammys, definitely the Emmy's. Uh. 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:29.560 I mean he at the time when American Idol was hitting, 0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:33.880 he was that. I think I think Ricky is the 0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:37.799 reason that because Ricky shout to Sis Smith, who sings 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.279 to me important to change. She her and Ricky have 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:42.479 like worked together forever, and I think it was Ricky 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:49.640 that put me in contact with Patrice. Now Here's the thing, though, 0:34:50.560 --> 0:34:55.040 sometimes and sometimes the trickle down theory works good because 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:58.360 sometimes he has something and looked done the war shows 0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:03.200 music direct then if the call so usually anything you've 0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:10.400 seen me do that's notable either, Commons Ricky Ricky Baston. Well, 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.759 here's the thing, anything that Adam Blackstone has done. So 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:15.960 now Adam is in the foes just because I had 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:19.720 to say no to everything. So Jay z Eminem, Rihanna 0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:24.839 Mary Janet like right now that it's the trickle down thing, 0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:30.399 and so no, he's definitely really messing with me. I'm like, damn, 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:35.359 I'm never getting that's the way Adam comminated. I think 0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:40.040 you need to go back even further ahead because he 0:35:40.120 --> 0:35:43.360 will tell you and so will rate you tee you 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:50.279 that somebody had to open the door for them. Who 0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:54.920 was it? Well, that might be me. I was thinking that, 0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:59.920 how that might be me you talked to, because I'm 0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:01.800 sure that you know you guys will have your opportunity 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:04.520 to speak to them. Should ask them about that, because 0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:08.760 see I'm on the other end of the phone hearing 0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:13.080 them ask me stuff. So let me do it like this. 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:15.120 Let me say like this, you asked you, you started 0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:21.719 your the start of your question. How is it it's 0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:24.920 it's very that's not an area that was open and 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:28.960 understood that much in terms of what people did as 0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:32.960 music directors or what that was about. I I pieced 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:35.640 it together watching it because I was kind of fascinated 0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:39.759 at that. But it is one of those things where, 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:44.440 at least in my feeling, where your work has to 0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:47.279 speak so loudly in terms of what you can do 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:54.400 that when there is an opportunity that that you can't, uh, 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:57.200 something will happen. I just, I just I just have 0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:59.480 this feeling that when you're an artist and you will 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:03.600 remain true to your your work and remaining true to 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.920 your goal and true to your why I call it, 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.879 it's gonna be okay. You don't know what how it's 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:13.360 gonna come, but it's gonna be okay. You just be 0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:17.200 ready when the opportunity arises. That's what I think. So 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:23.480 the idea of music direction fell in my lap, but 0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:29.399 it fell in it this way where Uh, Robert Townsend's 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:33.880 doing what it's gonna do Hollywood self. He was looking 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.200 for a composer. Now, this was his first film and 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:37.960 he didn't even know what he was supposed to be doing, 0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:40.960 so he just went around to the different agents who 0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:46.960 represented composers and goes down this list of gets to 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:49.680 an agent that I had happened to just have signed with, 0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:52.920 gets to my name and it's in pencil. I mean, 0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:57.000 I'm that new and I'm the only name he recognized 0:37:57.160 --> 0:38:02.200 because of the records to remind me that, and he 0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:07.000 was a fan, so he said, oh, Caba Trees, and 0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:09.799 of course they are. The agents are horrified because it's 0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:12.680 like she hasn't done anything. You don't know her. But 0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:14.600 I no, no, no, I do know, I know, I know, 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:19.000 I know her music. And so that's how that happened. 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:23.360 So I did Hollywood Shuffle and he got five HBO 0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:28.560 comedy specials and he called me to do the Partners 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:30.960 in Crime. This is where those relationships and the building 0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:35.719 of those relationships happened. So I did five of those 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:41.200 Partners in Crime. Then the guy who had been the 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:46.040 producer of the N Double A C Image A Horse. 0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:51.240 I knew that the music director who was for those awards, 0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:54.800 who was H. B. Barnum, who was a Wreatha's music director, 0:38:56.360 --> 0:39:00.040 was going to kind of pull back on due in 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:04.880 the Image Awards, And it was suggested between Hamilton Cloud, 0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:08.560 who was the producer and HB we look for somebody 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.400 else to take on the Image Awards. They were going 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:14.200 to try to make them really bigger and special and 0:39:14.600 --> 0:39:17.200 da da da dad. So I just on these five 0:39:17.320 --> 0:39:19.279 things and they called me to ask me if I 0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:22.399 were do him. So I said yes, So I did 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:28.239 the Image Awards. Now, after doing the HBO specials and 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:31.200 seen in the scene in the capacity of the of 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:34.600 being director and then doing those years of the Image Awards, 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:40.400 one of the directors of those shows was about to 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:43.719 do the Emmys. We're talking a span of ten years though, 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:47.400 and they had and had a falling out with the 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:51.279 music director and and I guess during the following I 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:54.799 was said, well, you know, hey, I'll get somebody else 0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:56.880 up in here to do it. And they called me. 0:39:57.040 --> 0:40:00.680 It was last minute and thing. But I had worked 0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:03.640 with him before on him one of those other comedy specials, 0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:06.400 and so you talk about the elbow room. For me, 0:40:06.560 --> 0:40:09.040 it wasn't about that as much as it was that 0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:14.680 circumstances brought in certain opportunities and I was determined to 0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:20.760 crush it. How does one like, do you have to Okay? 0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:25.960 Now I feel so Jankie like my level of my 0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:30.400 level of musical director. He's just like, all right, you know, 0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:34.279 it's five seconds and then whatever. But I'm certain that 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:37.800 you had to notate all the we didn't have the 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:40.640 you know that that that software and stuff that we 0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:43.080 use now all the time, we didn't have that. So no, 0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:45.560 you were writing by hand, you were preparing the music 0:40:45.640 --> 0:40:49.480 by hand. Um, you know I would sometimes, especially a 0:40:49.600 --> 0:40:53.560 big show like Image Awards or Emmy's. So you mentioned 0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:55.600 all the ones that I didn't. You say, Redy have 0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:59.200 the thing the thing locked up now, but he didn't 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.640 at first. So does that mean question off, you didn't 0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:04.279 do your research to find out that brit was to 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:09.400 put everybody for most people don't know that because they 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:11.520 didn't start looking. Now. This is the other part about 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:13.040 what you're saying about Ricky. This is one of the 0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:16.880 things that I actually admire about him most. He figures 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:20.239 out how he's gonna get let you know, he has 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:24.719 figured out a way to be able to kind of 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:29.200 uh quantify all of the activities that go along with 0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:32.480 that and and and get it done and be able 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:34.920 to say yes to a lot of things that are 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:39.480 high profile. And he's a very personable individual and he 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:42.719 will go out of his way to make sure you 0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:47.600 know what was happening. At that time, I was about 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:49.879 to I just wanted to get the word done because 0:41:49.880 --> 0:41:51.440 I was having to do so much of it myself. 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:54.680 I did a lot of shows for b ET, I 0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:56.960 did a lot of the I did the Grammys the 0:41:57.040 --> 0:42:00.840 last a few years that they used live orchestra to 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:04.000 record anything. You know, I probably did some of the 0:42:04.120 --> 0:42:07.200 last ones that they did that in this room that's 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:10.360 right or somewhere right. And when you were aware that 0:42:10.440 --> 0:42:12.560 you were a draw still, like even though you might 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:14.879 have been quiet monks, when we would see your name 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:16.640 and the credits, like people were fan of the record 0:42:16.680 --> 0:42:19.120 and be like, oh, I remember seeing her name in 0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:23.880 the Hollywood. I mean, I was aware of it. Only 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:28.040 I was aware of it. But but but I think, 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:31.800 like I said, I've had some happy circumstances to just 0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:34.120 happen on the way too while I was trying to 0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:38.360 go where I was trying to go, and everything seemed 0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:40.160 to help. The other thing, the fact that that that 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:42.880 I had an audience and and a and a and 0:42:42.960 --> 0:42:47.719 a following, particularly among the African American community, gave me 0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:51.759 the courage to be able to almost walk away from 0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:56.200 the recording side to focus as the opening, which was 0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:59.919 a little slipper opening, happened for me to be able 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:02.600 to really do the music direction thing because I could 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:06.560 bring other musicians of color who never would get those 0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:11.560 calls to it. As the sensibility musically began to change. 0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:15.439 Now you relate to list as the sensibilities in terms 0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:20.720 of what audiences wanted to hear and the relationship between 0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:22.960 the shows that they watched and the music that a 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:25.759 company that began to change and have more of the 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:32.840 sensibilities of people of color and of different and certainly 0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:40.520 you can call me in I can't and I and 0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:42.880 you know, but there's some music directors who you know, 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:45.640 they can't do that. So when I was was able 0:43:45.719 --> 0:43:48.960 to speak all the different languages or at least go 0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:54.719 there and call in you know people, then we could 0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:57.680 get a whole bunch of work done. Okay, I have 0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.600 a great question for you. Now we totally skipped or 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:06.800 we're gonna back to listen, but now that you went there. Okay, 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:11.040 So this computer on my lap never leaves my side, 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:14.960 and usually when I'm in situations like that, there's always 0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:20.920 an audible to be called, and usually director in my 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:23.440 air is like, uh, mirror, we need to queue up, 0:44:24.080 --> 0:44:27.080 uh Julio and is to all the girls I love 0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.120 before and I know I got nineties seconds, like the 0:44:30.160 --> 0:44:34.680 way that the roots have mastered hearing it and knowing 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:41.360 exactly what. But without the technology of you playing for 0:44:41.560 --> 0:44:45.359 all thirty of your musicians and your orchestra that you're 0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:48.080 about to call an audible or something, not knowing they 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:53.080 have the the ability to improvise them, how would that happen? 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:55.080 Would would there ever be situations like that where you 0:44:55.400 --> 0:45:00.279 get the last minute? Yeah, but things were changed, changing 0:45:00.480 --> 0:45:04.480 even the way the directors directed changed when they had 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:10.319 access to being able to not plan and to say 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:13.719 stuff at the last minute and watch people scramble and 0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:16.920 watch it happen. Uh you know, then they took advantage 0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:20.880 of that. So now be the audible becomes just another 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:22.360 thing that we have to that you have to have 0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:24.320 in your tool, just another thing that you have to do. 0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:28.920 Back in the day, those shows were planned to the 0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:32.279 tenth of a second in terms of what was going 0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:35.719 to happen, and you had to have a plan so 0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:39.720 that you will be ready for something that might happen 0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:45.480 uh spontaneously. Now The difference was everybody had a plan 0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:47.320 and everybody knew what was there they were supposed to do, 0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:49.359 and you had to be ready to deliver. But if 0:45:49.440 --> 0:45:52.600 it did take that little slight left, could the music 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:56.279 director and the people that were there respond and how 0:45:56.320 --> 0:45:59.840 are you going to respond right now? So that balance 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:04.920 an act did start to happen as a technology allowed 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:09.439 for more of it to shift into last minute let's 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:11.960 just go by the seat of our pants. Now it's 0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:14.600 like this. Now you've got people who are coming on 0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:18.480 who are playing in um television, orchestras and stuff like that. 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:22.160 They might read music, they might not, they might understand 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:26.719 what they understand concept because somebody's gonna say, oh, give 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:31.680 me something that sounds like uh Coldplay meets uh Bruno 0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:35.520 Mars right now, and everybody will go, yeah, okay, so 0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:39.839 you're you're your oral vocabulary. And the musicians that are 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:44.000 on TV now seem to have a very wide palette 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:46.920 in terms of a certain amount of oral vocabulary that 0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:48.880 they can call into at least get you through it 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:51.600 for the thirty or nineties seconds. But when you had 0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:53.840 more people, a fifty piece orchestra or something like that, 0:46:54.200 --> 0:47:00.600 you can't depend on. Everybody had they might I've never 0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:04.680 heard so wet a lot we had. We had to 0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:08.520 write a lot, and the and the arrangers and music 0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:13.640 directors who had the vocabulary had to be able to translate. Okay, 0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:17.000 you're supposed to be playing for Gladys Night and then 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:20.759 you're gonna play for print. M you need to translate 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:25.279 what it is so that it's seamless. So okay, uh, 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:39.480 gun to your head. If because I know or assume 0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:43.960 that you're well versed in site reading on the spot 0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:50.280 and the ability to improvise. Most musicians I know can't 0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:54.560 chew gum and walk at the same time. Usually like 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:57.480 I can't read. I mean I can read, but you know, 0:47:57.600 --> 0:47:58.960 no one's gonna have time for me to be like, 0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:01.480 give me fifteen minutes, one knee on the two and 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:10.640 all that stuff. So if you go into your head, 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:14.800 come on, if you have to lose one of the 0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:19.680 two abilities, m h, what would you would you rather 0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:26.000 keep your natural feel or the technical keep the technical reading? Okay, 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:28.960 you put in my face and I'll play it for 0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:37.520 two Well, and that is a loaded, loaded question. Are 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:42.879 people even to I have to I have to kind 0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:46.719 of two answers to that. First of all, there was 0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:52.200 a time when you would have to maybe choose. In 0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:55.920 two thousand eighteen, you don't have to choose. It's about 0:48:57.560 --> 0:49:00.400 It's about do you want the insurance that you'll be 0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:05.640 able to do music for your career until you can't 0:49:05.800 --> 0:49:08.440 do it anymore? And you when you want to do 0:49:08.640 --> 0:49:12.600 something real bad, I think that it behooves you to 0:49:12.760 --> 0:49:17.080 find every way possible to be able to ensure that 0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:20.120 you would never have to do anything else. Now you 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:23.239 don't have to necessarily get all you can't get all 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:27.239 the skills together at one time. Nobody's asking you to 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:31.800 do that. But I think that sometimes people fall on 0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:36.200 and default to what's the easiest for them to do, 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:41.279 and they stay there, and that's okay. But I would 0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:43.759 wonder what would happen if they would allow what they 0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.759 do really well to get them in a position to 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:49.480 be able to then, as they're doing what they do 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:52.640 really well, be able to use part of that income 0:49:52.719 --> 0:49:55.560 and part of that movement and part of that desire 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:59.200 to continue to do it, then also over here be 0:49:59.280 --> 0:50:01.759 working on that thing that they don't do as well. See, 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:03.600 we get caught in this thing of like if I 0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:08.160 don't do this, somebody thinks less of me. You know, 0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:10.200 you're good at what you're good at, and it's and 0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:13.200 if you've got talent and and you've and you've worked 0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:14.880 on that, I think that you should go with it. 0:50:15.600 --> 0:50:17.400 But it also behoods you that if you want to 0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:20.879 stay with it and contribute that there may be other 0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:24.080 ways if you would learn certain things that would allow 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:26.240 for you to be able to keep keep it moving. 0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:28.440 More tools in your tool bucks, more tools in your 0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:30.400 tool bucks. And I think that's an individual choice, but 0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:32.560 I was. I was told at least when I was 0:50:32.600 --> 0:50:36.360 a kid, Like my dad was like, yo, you're not 0:50:36.520 --> 0:50:39.880 going to get the work if you don't learn how 0:50:39.960 --> 0:50:41.839 to read. So for him, it was like you gotta 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.920 go to Curtis or Berkeley or you know wherever, Juilliard, 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:49.080 that sort of thing. And I didn't do that. I 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:52.279 cheated and just went straight to a record deal. Um. 0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:58.000 But I meant for you, if you're okay, if you're 0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:01.880 if you get the call for the Emmys, is it 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:08.719 would you rather pull uh a guitarist that has amazing 0:51:08.880 --> 0:51:12.160 feel that can at least get by it on court 0:51:12.280 --> 0:51:15.040 charts or whatever ord for you to be in that 0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:20.719 high tension environment. You gotta read on site. I think 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:23.920 the first question is really to define what the medium 0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:27.120 is asking of you. See, to do the Emmy's Award Awards, 0:51:27.719 --> 0:51:32.960 and the requirement for that is different than to do 0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:39.759 uh Jimmy fallon. It's different. You want music. That's the 0:51:39.800 --> 0:51:43.880 only common denominator. The rest of it is that it's different. 0:51:44.880 --> 0:51:47.960 The Emmy Awards. You're gonna play a hundred and fifty 0:51:48.080 --> 0:51:54.120 television show. Themes they're gonna arrange from a smission impossible 0:51:54.360 --> 0:51:59.080 to friends. You might have masterpiece theater thrown in there, 0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:02.680 you might have anything thrown in it, and you you're 0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:05.520 gonna record them. You're gonna record them all so that 0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:08.279 the winner is they press the button and go, and 0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:10.160 then you're gonna have all the music there so that 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:12.440 whoever did win. When the person is talking too long, 0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:15.680 you can play them off. That's not the time for 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:17.600 somebody to sit there and go one end and to 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:22.600 end any good time. So you cast who you call 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:26.480 on the basis of the end result and what is 0:52:26.560 --> 0:52:31.239 required of you in your in your show a lot. 0:52:31.440 --> 0:52:33.839 You know, it's so fluid and it's beautiful. Because it's 0:52:33.880 --> 0:52:36.440 so fluid. You guys have a thing, you have a feel, 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:41.200 you have a sound, you have the responsibilities. There's certain 0:52:41.239 --> 0:52:43.400 ones that are laid out that you know you gotta 0:52:43.440 --> 0:52:46.000 do every night. But then there are other things that 0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:49.200 it if it goes this way or this way where 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:50.920 you can turn on the diamond, this show like that, 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.239 it's it's because of the nature of the show. And 0:52:54.440 --> 0:52:56.719 then in in in in that case it might not 0:52:56.880 --> 0:52:58.879 be as necessary. And you guys have spent so many, 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:03.319 so much time together. Wait, guys inside, When she said 0:53:03.440 --> 0:53:06.719 Jimmy fallon to myself, I was like, she knows what 0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:15.640 you gotta pay attention and hey, and when it's good, 0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:20.000 you want to know who's that? Like are you watching? 0:53:20.120 --> 0:53:22.120 You know the folks like a mirror and Adam Blackstone. 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:28.120 Because remember I'm still I'm in education now. So the 0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.600 kids who are going to school, there is this ballot 0:53:31.600 --> 0:53:32.960 and this is getting back to what I was. I 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:35.240 was saying, you don't have to you don't have to choose, 0:53:35.760 --> 0:53:39.319 because now there are at least some places. Not every 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:42.080 music school. You gotta find the one that supports what 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:45.240 you think you want to do, but there are places 0:53:45.360 --> 0:53:48.760 for people to go now to be able to develop 0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:51.600 that skill set and that awareness to be able to 0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:54.319 go from one side of it to the other side. Uh, 0:53:54.560 --> 0:53:57.239 flawlessly if they if they so choose to learn that 0:53:57.320 --> 0:53:59.920 it's not this or this or this, but this one 0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:03.480 big thing. I'm a better musician if I if I 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:07.839 even know what a producer does. I'm a better participant 0:54:07.920 --> 0:54:10.160 in a in a band or an orchestra if I 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:12.400 have a sense of what the music director is dealing with. 0:54:12.719 --> 0:54:14.279 And I'm a better music director because I know what 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:16.319 the musicians have to do. In other words, these are 0:54:16.719 --> 0:54:20.719 skills that kind of we're co dependent, and you want 0:54:20.760 --> 0:54:23.680 to be able to see how different people do it 0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:26.920 in different ways and develop ways to be able to 0:54:27.000 --> 0:54:29.040 do it that allow for you to produce to get 0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:33.839 it done. How how big is your database right now? 0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:37.040 As far as are you the person are you the 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:42.879 bridge that knows off the top ten guitar players, uh? 0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:45.960 Eleven good keyboard players or that guy really plays for 0:54:46.040 --> 0:54:51.520 insuring well, Uh, guy's a great engineer. You're not, are 0:54:51.600 --> 0:54:55.600 you people? I'm one of the people that may know 0:54:55.840 --> 0:55:02.440 some but what we learned to do with myself, Greg 0:55:02.600 --> 0:55:07.759 Feeling Games, Ricky Minor rachel Um, we learned to call 0:55:07.840 --> 0:55:13.560 on each other. You need something and you got something 0:55:13.640 --> 0:55:16.680 to do, and you need a certain kind of information 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:18.840 or a certain kind of individual to be able to 0:55:18.920 --> 0:55:22.000 help you get it done. Then you call. You can 0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:24.400 call your peers. This is this is why the community 0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:28.480 is so important. You can call on your peers, or 0:55:28.520 --> 0:55:30.680 you should be able to call on your peers to 0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:34.359 say yo, and without it being a situation of any 0:55:34.400 --> 0:55:36.920 kind of other agenda. That's what you're trying to avoid 0:55:37.560 --> 0:55:38.839 to be. But you want to be able to call 0:55:38.880 --> 0:55:40.399 on your peers and say, I'm doing such and such 0:55:40.440 --> 0:55:45.840 and I need see that's what the old school had together. 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:49.640 They had that on lockdown where that many of us 0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:53.760 involved in the TV world, So they really will depend 0:55:53.840 --> 0:55:55.800 on each other when you come and want to and 0:55:55.920 --> 0:55:58.239 you're up there on the podium and this is another one. 0:55:58.320 --> 0:56:00.200 I was up there in the part you don't play. 0:56:00.880 --> 0:56:05.200 That's people. They created this term called hayden. You're going 0:56:05.280 --> 0:56:08.360 to make it work and you're going to support what's happening. 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:10.840 And people would do that on the band stand, you know, 0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:13.400 And that's that was that's that's that's a part of 0:56:13.560 --> 0:56:17.840 the heritage of our music, of all the music that 0:56:18.000 --> 0:56:23.000 we do that. It's survival. And our way of being 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:26.960 able to communicate with each other came from like an 0:56:27.080 --> 0:56:30.439 unspoken thing of like, hey, we're trying to make this happen. 0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:33.680 We don't need to support each other because meanwhile I'm thinking, 0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:35.600 I'm like is this where are there any other sisters? 0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:37.840 I mean, I was thinking women period, But I was like, 0:56:37.960 --> 0:56:40.000 in this community, is are they're just women that I'm 0:56:40.000 --> 0:56:51.600 not seeing? Music directors very few Michelle now disappearing acts 0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:57.399 years ago? Yeah, there from from alive. From a live 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:01.279 television type standpoint, that's what I'm like. Patristas, who was 0:57:01.360 --> 0:57:04.200 the who was the Well, you know, there's not that 0:57:04.360 --> 0:57:08.759 much live television unfortunately, and I think that that's a 0:57:08.840 --> 0:57:11.359 problem because I think that there are more women who 0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:15.200 are to have, who are capable to have some of 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:16.680 the skills that they would take. But she's such a 0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:20.880 boss position. It was. It was pretty cool. Okay, now 0:57:21.920 --> 0:57:31.480 we that was literally just one question. I would like 0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:36.240 to know how did you uh interact or run it 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:41.160 into Pam Brown, who was the team coordinator for a 0:57:41.280 --> 0:57:44.520 soul train. Okay, I wish it was a beautiful, sexy story, 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:53.240 but it's not over Boom did you say teen coordinator? Coordinator? 0:57:54.240 --> 0:57:56.760 I went to a park. I was at a park. 0:57:57.640 --> 0:58:00.760 I don't even know why I was there, but I 0:58:00.920 --> 0:58:03.120 was at a park, you know, high school, hanging with 0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:05.640 your hanging with your friends, you know. And this bus 0:58:05.720 --> 0:58:08.640 pulled up and she and Don Corneiz get out and 0:58:08.680 --> 0:58:11.080 they talked about this show that they were bringing from 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:15.120 Chicago called Soul Train, and that they were gonna shoot 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:19.280 it out here and they would come by the same 0:58:19.400 --> 0:58:22.880 park next Saturday. And if you wanted to go over 0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:26.320 to the television station, you know, just bring a change 0:58:26.360 --> 0:58:30.120 of clothes. We'll pick you up here, we will bring 0:58:30.200 --> 0:58:32.800 you back here, and we're gonna all you gotta do 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:35.560 is have fun and dance on the show. So what 0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:39.480 was that, like, I'm gonna be on TV? Yes, I mean, 0:58:39.520 --> 0:58:42.160 you know me, remember I wanted to me and that 0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:44.480 I'm like kind away from a long time ago. So 0:58:44.560 --> 0:58:46.960 I was like, this is actually very cool. And the 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:49.320 show was we didn't have a lot of detail about 0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:51.520 what to do. They just to come, bring a change 0:58:51.520 --> 0:58:54.440 of clothing, dance and that's what we did. So but 0:58:54.600 --> 0:58:57.120 you know, I'm looking around at all the other stuff 0:58:57.160 --> 0:59:00.640 that's happening because you know what I'm saying, this is 0:59:00.840 --> 0:59:04.240 this is stuff going on in here. It's people in here, 0:59:05.200 --> 0:59:08.800 and um we would go come and go blah blah 0:59:08.800 --> 0:59:10.200 blah blah blah like that. And so I was on 0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:12.760 the show. I did maybe five or six of them, 0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.080 I think, because they would shoot a lot on like 0:59:15.240 --> 0:59:17.040 one week when they would do a lot, So I 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:18.720 was like maybe on five or six of those shoots, 0:59:18.720 --> 0:59:20.560 which meant that I was on quite a few shows 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:23.880 and saw quite a few artists come on that show. 0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:26.320 I was going to say, at that moment, you're such 0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:32.600 a to see an unknown al green Bill Withers on 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:37.240 she's on the episode of your The Dead President's episode 0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:41.960 where I was doing with the sling, not with the 0:59:42.080 --> 0:59:48.400 cast where he's wearing the hot person. Yes, you can 0:59:48.480 --> 0:59:52.320 let the pleather pants. You have to ask your own questions. Yeah, 0:59:52.440 --> 0:59:56.720 well that's what I was wondering. So I don't know 0:59:56.720 --> 0:59:58.480 if I was gonna particularly cute that dad and what 0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:04.680 But they said, you ask the question, okay, And I 1:00:04.760 --> 1:00:07.600 guess I got chosen a lot to do stuff. I 1:00:07.680 --> 1:00:12.800 had a little scramble board one time and things like that. Anyway, 1:00:12.880 --> 1:00:17.160 pam uh with then you know, if you do a 1:00:17.240 --> 1:00:20.520 few of these. She gets to know people who's who's who, 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:26.000 and uh, it was just amazing that. Then later years later, 1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:29.000 I'm back on the show as a guest to do 1:00:30.120 --> 1:00:33.360 you know, forgive me. That's the thing. Um, In all 1:00:33.400 --> 1:00:37.920 of your appearances on the show, usually done will acknowledge 1:00:38.040 --> 1:00:40.680 or child or sort of like joke about like your 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:43.320 days of this old tring dance or whatever. But in 1:00:43.480 --> 1:00:46.800 your four or five appearances, you guys never discussed that, 1:00:46.880 --> 1:00:49.320 and we never talked about that. That's true. Does he 1:00:49.440 --> 1:00:52.680 know he? I think he did, but you know I would, 1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:55.720 I would see him in other places. See by this time, 1:00:56.480 --> 1:01:01.320 I'm still I'm I'm still in high school, but I'm 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:04.320 starting to play in town. So he he used to 1:01:04.400 --> 1:01:07.000 go out and just go to a club or something 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:09.560 like that, she would do. And he may have seen 1:01:09.640 --> 1:01:13.120 me do something else. And I think he really did 1:01:13.240 --> 1:01:18.880 appreciate um musicianship from the standpoint of of of you 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:21.960 know players, you know from Chicago, so that you know, 1:01:22.200 --> 1:01:25.160 jazz was a big deal. Uh, so he may have 1:01:25.200 --> 1:01:26.960 seen me in a slightly different light. And I and 1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:30.200 Pam Pam Brown, she did know. She did know that 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:33.200 I played and and stuff like that some kind of way, 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:35.960 I don't know, but anyway, those days on slow train 1:01:36.040 --> 1:01:39.920 were really um, really magical, you know, told me a lot, 1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:43.800 gave me a lot of of pride and in in 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:48.160 in our music for one, and then in certainly UH 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:52.680 kind of um helped me to understand sort of the 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:58.440 the way that UH television and radio could coexist as 1:01:58.480 --> 1:02:02.400 a means by which we would get UH very important information, 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:07.560 particularly that of our image to each other. Radio was 1:02:07.600 --> 1:02:14.760 the way how did you sign your first record? Dere okay? 1:02:15.040 --> 1:02:19.800 So uh In nineteen seventy two, I was in this. 1:02:20.360 --> 1:02:23.400 I was my last year high school, and like I said, 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:25.520 I went to all black High school, Lock High School, 1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:29.120 and we played a lot of Battle of the band's 1:02:29.200 --> 1:02:31.600 type of things a jazz band did, because you know, 1:02:31.680 --> 1:02:34.080 you win a trumpet, you win a kick drum pedal, 1:02:34.160 --> 1:02:36.000 you know. So we did a whole bunch of these, 1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:39.160 and one of them was up in Monterey, California. And 1:02:39.200 --> 1:02:42.400 the winner of this high school band competition that a 1:02:42.480 --> 1:02:45.880 band competition and a combo competition. So the winner of 1:02:45.920 --> 1:02:48.960 this band competition or combo competition, the prize was to 1:02:49.160 --> 1:02:53.200 appear at the Monterey Jazz Festival, which remains today one 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:57.200 of the largest, you know, jazz festivals. Now, our band 1:02:57.240 --> 1:03:01.440 didn't win, but my combo did, so we got to 1:03:01.520 --> 1:03:05.480 play on this as festival. And it was after that 1:03:06.640 --> 1:03:11.680 that record companies who were doing that kind of music 1:03:11.760 --> 1:03:15.400 were interested in me signing. Now I'm gonna set the 1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:19.040 the environment a little bit. There was an artist named 1:03:19.080 --> 1:03:25.960 Bobby Humphrey, and so all the companies now are looking to, Oh, 1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:29.640 we need to have an answer to them. They need 1:03:29.720 --> 1:03:35.360 the answer to them, you know. And so we we 1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:37.520 had a great set and everything went really really well, 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:39.960 but the companies were really looking. Now. I wasn't interested. 1:03:40.080 --> 1:03:42.959 And this is another difference. Back then, I didn't feel 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:45.840 like I was ready. I was going to go to college, 1:03:46.960 --> 1:03:48.480 you know, I'm still trying to figure out all in 1:03:48.600 --> 1:03:50.760 terms of what I really want to do. And the 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:53.360 whole idea of doing an album was really daunting to me. 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:56.440 Remember because my album collection had Joe Innerson in it 1:03:56.560 --> 1:03:59.000 and Miles Davids in it, and Ella and it and 1:03:59.080 --> 1:04:01.200 all these people in it, and I'm like, nah, I'm 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:04.400 not ready for that just yet. But there was a company, 1:04:04.720 --> 1:04:11.800 Fantasy Records. They had a subsidiary label, Prestige, and Uh, 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.320 it was a short deal, just a three album deal. 1:04:16.160 --> 1:04:19.920 I had complete creative control, just you know, we just 1:04:20.000 --> 1:04:24.120 want you to do you think and uh, I said, okay. 1:04:24.160 --> 1:04:27.240 And I needed money for school, so I said, okay, 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:29.760 how did you get your afro so tight on the cover? 1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:39.320 Having an afro was an art. You had to really 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:42.400 work at work at it a lot. But yeah, you know, 1:04:44.200 --> 1:04:47.760 work with Reggie Andrews. Well, Reggie Andrews was one of 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:51.919 the three music directors at music music teachers at Lock 1:04:52.040 --> 1:04:56.000 High School. It was his first year of teaching. He 1:04:56.080 --> 1:04:59.560 had just graduated from college. It was his first year 1:04:59.640 --> 1:05:02.840 of tea gene. So there were three people Don Dustin, 1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:07.520 Frank Harris, and Reggie Andrews. And see, Reggie was only 1:05:07.600 --> 1:05:11.720 a little bit older than us, so we all really 1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:15.840 could relate to him very very well from the standpoint 1:05:15.920 --> 1:05:19.640 of he handled all of the jazz and uh, you know, 1:05:19.920 --> 1:05:23.960 contemporary music in terms of our training, and he was 1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:30.520 really um indispensable with to all of our understanding about 1:05:30.600 --> 1:05:35.200 these different kinds of musical uh music lives that you 1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:38.560 could lead. So one day he's bringing you know, he 1:05:38.680 --> 1:05:42.400 goes to the club and he tells, uh, Lenny White 1:05:42.520 --> 1:05:44.240 looks a man, I'm gonna bring you down to the 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:47.760 to the high school. This was before jazz was institutionalized too. 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:50.840 Come on that and so and he go pick him up, 1:05:50.840 --> 1:05:54.920 and they come. Herbie Handcock came, Minnie Mobbin came, and 1:05:55.040 --> 1:05:58.200 then he knew Maurice White and they needed a place 1:05:58.280 --> 1:06:00.760 to rehearse, and he said, well, once you come over 1:06:00.840 --> 1:06:02.720 to the high school after hours and rehearsing the multi 1:06:02.760 --> 1:06:07.080 purpose room, and we helped slap their instruments in and 1:06:07.160 --> 1:06:08.520 out and got them up on the stage so that 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:10.000 they could place. How I met all of them? I 1:06:10.080 --> 1:06:12.440 met all of them earth to Fire when I was 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:16.480 in high school and they couldn't pay for the use 1:06:16.560 --> 1:06:19.000 of the room, so they played my high school prom. 1:06:24.600 --> 1:06:28.320 So wh didn't they play? And that was the band 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:32.800 with Jessica Clevees and Ronnie Laws Wait a minute, Rolling Batista, 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:37.320 earth Wing Fire played your high school proNT Yes, sir 1:06:41.600 --> 1:06:44.600 so up and Larry Dunn and all of them, Al 1:06:44.720 --> 1:06:47.640 McKay and of course Maurice and I think we're playing 1:06:47.680 --> 1:06:50.320 drums at that time. Ralph Johnson was playing drums at 1:06:50.360 --> 1:06:54.200 the time. And these people became like people we would see, 1:06:55.040 --> 1:06:57.400 you know, on a bi weekly basis as they would 1:06:57.440 --> 1:06:59.800 come by to to try to rehearse. And that summer 1:07:00.880 --> 1:07:05.640 Mighty Mighty came out and blew up and uh me 1:07:05.760 --> 1:07:11.720 after the right after, So that you know these kinds 1:07:11.760 --> 1:07:14.400 of you talk about relationships, and you talk about being 1:07:14.440 --> 1:07:17.000 in certain kinds of environments and a sense of community 1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:21.959 and helping each other. I saw that over and over 1:07:22.120 --> 1:07:24.200 and over and over. How did you make the transition 1:07:24.360 --> 1:07:28.040 from playing at that time to like composing and writing 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:30.480 like your own songs? What was that like? I think 1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:34.520 I was always doing it because for me, the playing 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:36.960 and the composing was kind of all melted together. I 1:07:37.040 --> 1:07:41.600 didn't have maybe as many um opportunities to put it 1:07:41.680 --> 1:07:44.040 out there, but I had all kinds of stuff because 1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:45.280 in the little groups that I was in, I was 1:07:45.320 --> 1:07:48.840 always I was writing or always arranging something. I had 1:07:48.840 --> 1:07:51.760 a little band, you know, during the college days, called 1:07:51.800 --> 1:07:55.400 Red Means and Rice, and that was a lot. We 1:07:55.480 --> 1:07:57.760 made a little money playing house parties and things like this. 1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:00.960 And in that band was big player named Charles Meeks, 1:08:01.000 --> 1:08:03.160 who ultimately went on to work with Chuck Man, Joni 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:07.200 and Josie James, who ended up singing with uh George 1:08:07.280 --> 1:08:09.800 Duke for many years, and lots of different people came 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:12.160 through that band, and we worked me a little money 1:08:12.240 --> 1:08:15.560 and we played cover tunes, which was a great way 1:08:15.640 --> 1:08:19.000 to learn about arranging and stuff like that. Oh cooling 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:21.640 the gang line what you know. I would learn so 1:08:22.600 --> 1:08:26.160 much by doing this kind of stuff. So the writing 1:08:26.280 --> 1:08:28.760 and the arranging and all of that sort of kind 1:08:28.800 --> 1:08:32.639 of found it's it's it's it's its own platform through 1:08:33.640 --> 1:08:37.240 the plane and then being learning about jazz and learning 1:08:37.280 --> 1:08:41.680 the history of the music and learning about improvisation, you know, 1:08:41.760 --> 1:08:45.040 because that is spontaneous composition. When you were putting out 1:08:45.160 --> 1:08:47.800 your Prestige records, did you tour it all? Like? What 1:08:47.960 --> 1:08:49.800 was your life like at that time when you first started. 1:08:49.920 --> 1:08:52.280 I was in school, so I didn't really tour. I 1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:54.680 did a few days, like during the summer a little bit, 1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:57.760 but but I didn't I didn't really do too much. 1:08:57.800 --> 1:09:01.320 I know. I remember I got the call from John McLoughlin. 1:09:01.400 --> 1:09:07.960 He wanted me to join what I said, okay, can 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:13.280 And I talked to my parents and they were like, 1:09:13.920 --> 1:09:18.280 oh no, no, no, no, you know, so I'm in 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:21.960 school and he was so kind and nice. You know 1:09:22.880 --> 1:09:25.640 that this Prestige period was just like, look, I just 1:09:25.720 --> 1:09:29.799 need the college money and you're just very casual about 1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:32.760 like it was a platform and an idea of being 1:09:32.800 --> 1:09:34.320 able to do that. But I was always a little 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:38.439 shy about being put out there too too soon, half Baked. 1:09:38.479 --> 1:09:39.880 There was a whole bunch of stuff I didn't know. 1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:44.320 So how did you go? Yeah? Let me because the 1:09:44.439 --> 1:09:47.160 three albums is so distinctively different, Like the first one 1:09:47.200 --> 1:09:51.360 is straighthead jazz. Now uh with the I know the 1:09:51.439 --> 1:09:54.160 last last one was before the Door or the last 1:09:54.200 --> 1:09:57.800 one was called shouted out shot it. Okay, Well I 1:09:57.880 --> 1:10:03.960 was going to say sword the last I'm sorry my 1:10:04.120 --> 1:10:08.679 arts are horrible. Um okay. Before I knew that Regie 1:10:08.720 --> 1:10:13.760 produced that or co reduced it, um, it had such 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:17.360 a mind Zello Brothers feel to it that I was asking. 1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:21.000 I was wondering if, well, you mentioned Bobby Humphrey already, 1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:24.880 Like if was it the label asking you guys to 1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:27.920 switch each time around or no? No. I just had 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:30.559 all that freedom and I was into so many different 1:10:30.640 --> 1:10:34.880 kinds of music, and you know, I to this day, 1:10:34.920 --> 1:10:37.719 I look back and I said, that could never happen today, 1:10:38.240 --> 1:10:45.240 where a record company would allow your expression to continue 1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:48.320 to to to morph into different things and allow for 1:10:48.400 --> 1:10:51.040 you to document where you were at the time or 1:10:51.080 --> 1:10:53.479 where you were feeling at the time in that way 1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:56.479 without being that concerned about whether or not there was 1:10:56.520 --> 1:10:58.080 going to be a hit. But this was a jazz 1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:01.200 label and they were accustomed to I mean the other 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:03.040 people on the label. They had Stanley Taranty and on 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:05.880 that label. Joe Henderson was on that label. Uh. They 1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:08.960 had canniball Adderlee on that label. Floor Paiem was on 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:13.120 that label. So there were different takes on the music, 1:11:13.200 --> 1:11:15.479 and they were accustomed to people kind of moving and 1:11:15.520 --> 1:11:20.520 blah blah blah, the the, the, the the the overarching 1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:25.360 label was owned by Saul Zins and they had Cretan's 1:11:25.360 --> 1:11:27.240 clear Water and people like that on the other side 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:30.800 of the world. Okay, So they were always experiment and stuff, 1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:33.200 so they were kind of come into that that could 1:11:33.240 --> 1:11:36.280 not happen today where you could do three distinctively different 1:11:36.320 --> 1:11:41.479 albums and everybody was okay, okay. So usually on this show, 1:11:42.560 --> 1:11:47.679 something that means something like in a sentimental, uh valued 1:11:47.760 --> 1:11:50.519 way to us means like everything Usually there artist is 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:54.599 just like, yeah, I wrote that in two minutes. Can 1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:58.439 you give us any stories about before the dorms. Did 1:11:58.560 --> 1:12:03.240 not write that in two minutes. I was because that 1:12:04.000 --> 1:12:08.360 for for us, like hip hop heads, like that means 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:11.920 a lot like past. You remind me all that, But 1:12:12.720 --> 1:12:15.320 what was the process of writing that. I mean, you 1:12:15.360 --> 1:12:20.760 made it the title cut, so obviously it yet to um. 1:12:22.520 --> 1:12:25.920 I think that some of the some of your audience 1:12:25.920 --> 1:12:29.479 will relate to this. You know, that time of a 1:12:29.640 --> 1:12:34.400 day is I don't know, there's just something about it 1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:38.679 that where things seem to be at peace. Everything seems 1:12:38.720 --> 1:12:44.000 to be just so mellow, so peaceful, just just before 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:48.920 the daybreak. And if you've had issues during the day 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:52.400 that follow you into into your trying to get to 1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:54.600 sleep at night, and you wake up and you have 1:12:55.000 --> 1:12:58.360 just that early early, early, early early morning, it kind 1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:01.639 of there's something about it settles you. I still work 1:13:02.439 --> 1:13:05.200 when I'm under pressure or a deadline. That seems to 1:13:05.280 --> 1:13:07.560 be my productive, most productive part of the day. You 1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:11.960 think everyone is sleep, when you think everybody seems the 1:13:12.400 --> 1:13:19.000 alpha is like the rest of the world is. You know, 1:13:19.120 --> 1:13:22.080 you have that solitude to yourself. It's just something special 1:13:22.120 --> 1:13:26.960 about that. So the mood of that was what I 1:13:27.200 --> 1:13:32.760 was trying to capture. And uh and and at the 1:13:32.840 --> 1:13:36.200 same time there's a certain kind of balance between a 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:44.360 certain sophistication and soulfulness that when you are operating with 1:13:44.640 --> 1:13:48.800 just again that area of your life where you just 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:54.600 feel is your truth. That's that's that was my interpretation 1:13:54.680 --> 1:13:57.760 at that time of what that felt like. And I 1:13:57.880 --> 1:14:01.120 loved the idea of being able to you know, again 1:14:01.240 --> 1:14:05.320 going back to my idea of arranging and orchestration, having 1:14:06.240 --> 1:14:11.320 just those few instruments to work with trombone, auto flute 1:14:11.479 --> 1:14:15.760 and flu flu horn as the different textures and as 1:14:15.840 --> 1:14:19.960 almost almost like acquire against this rhythm section that is 1:14:20.160 --> 1:14:23.439 very very quiet, and then we hit this group and 1:14:23.600 --> 1:14:27.120 we just stayed there means everything to us, Thank you. 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:31.920 So what was the transition to electric records? Because I 1:14:32.000 --> 1:14:36.439 mean digging hip hop producers, digging in the crates, that's 1:14:36.479 --> 1:14:41.160 how I'll discovered your fantasy output. But I actually, I 1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:44.000 mean Hanging Up was the first thing that I first 1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:46.240 here when I was like seven, and I thought that 1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:49.320 was your debut that whole time. That was like I 1:14:49.439 --> 1:14:54.240 sang one song on the Fantasy Um song called let 1:14:54.280 --> 1:14:57.560 Your Heart Be Free, and I played bass based on it. 1:14:59.120 --> 1:15:04.400 Man listen, So my my deal was over my three 1:15:05.160 --> 1:15:10.200 albums were up and and Electra was very interested. A 1:15:10.320 --> 1:15:14.799 guy named Don Mizelle was about to start a different, 1:15:15.840 --> 1:15:20.880 um smaller label within the Electro label that focused on 1:15:21.120 --> 1:15:27.559 music that was had jazz sensibilities but also had commercial 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:33.599 and pop sensibilities. So oh, that's interesting. So he wanted, 1:15:33.720 --> 1:15:36.040 he said, now the things that like this, will you 1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:37.760 do more of that kind of stuff where there's some 1:15:38.000 --> 1:15:39.519 there's some vocal. I don't want you to I don't 1:15:39.520 --> 1:15:43.200 want you to minimize, you know, the the improvisation and 1:15:43.320 --> 1:15:45.840 aspect aspect of it or anything like that. But the 1:15:45.960 --> 1:15:48.519 giruls are so strong, do you think you oh, yeah, 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:50.760 you know, that's kind of what I was hearing and 1:15:50.800 --> 1:15:53.519 where I was at that time. Anyway, did you have 1:15:53.560 --> 1:15:57.439 any report with Was this the period? No, this was 1:15:57.520 --> 1:15:59.759 before that. That was this was the Joe Smith period? 1:16:00.040 --> 1:16:03.800 Was president still it was then Crabs now came in 1:16:03.920 --> 1:16:05.960 though during the time that I was there on my 1:16:06.320 --> 1:16:12.240 last album. Oh okay, okay, there like the late seventies 1:16:12.240 --> 1:16:18.920 and early eighties, but yes, so um yeah, So I 1:16:18.960 --> 1:16:21.680 Hang It Up was the first single off of that 1:16:21.880 --> 1:16:26.360 first album for Electra, and uh, you know, I was 1:16:26.439 --> 1:16:29.000 influenced by Parliament, Funkadelic and all of that sold them. 1:16:29.040 --> 1:16:32.000 Gang vocals or having multiple vocals, even though it was 1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:35.600 a different feel, was very appealing to me because I 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:39.680 was always a little skittish about doing solo singing. I 1:16:39.800 --> 1:16:41.360 did it because that was the way, you know, I 1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:43.479 would sing as a means by which I would get 1:16:43.560 --> 1:16:46.360 my point across. But in terms of singing, I was like, no. 1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:54.080 But you know, okay, since we're in n there's a 1:16:54.240 --> 1:16:57.760 question you can finally settle for me after all these 1:16:57.840 --> 1:17:02.840 years are borndering. Um, And again you know, Abbot reader 1:17:02.960 --> 1:17:06.360 right on magazine. So that's that's where all my information 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:13.599 came from. Um. But I'm led to believe that your 1:17:13.880 --> 1:17:19.680 involvement in the second Prince album was a lot more 1:17:19.800 --> 1:17:23.640 than what you were hinted at, not even credited for, 1:17:23.800 --> 1:17:26.879 but hinted at. And then again like, you know, information 1:17:26.880 --> 1:17:28.240 has come to me as an eight year old, and 1:17:28.280 --> 1:17:34.960 again it's it's right on magazine. My one of my 1:17:35.040 --> 1:17:40.320 first conversations with him was actually about you and asking 1:17:40.479 --> 1:17:44.160 you know, he said that, uh, you know, Patrice gave 1:17:44.200 --> 1:17:46.120 me a lot of advice and dadda dada, could you 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:52.360 describe what exactly what you're relationship with Prince? Was your 1:17:52.439 --> 1:17:57.040 working relationship with Prince? Because I guess like I weren't 1:17:57.280 --> 1:17:59.320 either did he want to put you in the band 1:17:59.560 --> 1:18:02.680 or why did you do you taught him how to 1:18:02.720 --> 1:18:07.200 program and synthesizers or something like? What was the story? Okay, 1:18:07.800 --> 1:18:11.800 um are common? Are you coming with the right ones? 1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:17.320 So that's fine. Our common denominator was that the engineer, 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:24.880 uh of one of my albums told me about him, said, 1:18:25.000 --> 1:18:29.240 you know, after Steve, he played all these instruments on 1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:32.760 his records. You know that we we all thought that 1:18:32.800 --> 1:18:34.840 that was just so amazing. But many of us were 1:18:34.960 --> 1:18:38.600 multi instrumentalists, and so we that gave us permission to 1:18:38.720 --> 1:18:40.280 at least do that. You know, we might not play 1:18:40.439 --> 1:18:43.000 every instrument, but we would play more than the thing 1:18:43.120 --> 1:18:45.280 that we were known to do. We wouldn't have any 1:18:45.320 --> 1:18:48.400 fear about doing that anymore. And the technology would allow 1:18:48.479 --> 1:18:50.360 us to do that, with us being able to overdub 1:18:50.400 --> 1:18:56.439 and things like this. So Tommy vicari is his name, 1:18:56.479 --> 1:19:00.800 is a very well known engineering producer, and at that 1:19:00.880 --> 1:19:04.800 time he says, there's somebody that I have recently come 1:19:04.840 --> 1:19:06.960 across that I'm gonna be working on a project with them, 1:19:07.560 --> 1:19:09.840 and I really would love for the two of you 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:15.519 to meet. I said, okay, So he called him on 1:19:15.600 --> 1:19:18.040 the phone and we talked. Now I didn't know at 1:19:18.080 --> 1:19:22.880 the time that Prince already was aware of you know, me, 1:19:24.200 --> 1:19:25.960 but he was new and I hadn't heard. So we 1:19:26.240 --> 1:19:30.360 we talked some and uh, Tommy said, well, I'm gonna 1:19:30.360 --> 1:19:31.880 be you know, working with him, and I said, well, 1:19:32.040 --> 1:19:33.400 that's great. I would love to, you know, have a 1:19:33.479 --> 1:19:34.800 chance to meet him. So we did, finding me, but 1:19:34.880 --> 1:19:37.160 you know, he was not a man of many words, 1:19:37.960 --> 1:19:42.160 especially in that first meeting. Well then he had then 1:19:42.240 --> 1:19:45.200 stuff came out and it was like things things were 1:19:45.280 --> 1:19:49.000 happening with him and all said, oh okay, I get 1:19:49.040 --> 1:19:52.720 it now. And we had other our paths crossed on 1:19:52.800 --> 1:19:55.640 some of these TV shows like American band Stand and 1:19:56.080 --> 1:19:59.519 things like that, and we did, you know, his guard 1:19:59.600 --> 1:20:02.639 kind of went down enough that he really wanted to talk. 1:20:02.680 --> 1:20:06.519 And so he used to call me and we would 1:20:06.880 --> 1:20:09.280 talk and he would ask me technical questions sometimes how 1:20:09.280 --> 1:20:12.640 did you do uh what what what pedal were you 1:20:12.800 --> 1:20:15.000 using on the clavnet to get that sign? What did 1:20:15.040 --> 1:20:16.680 you do with this? How did you do this? This? This? 1:20:17.200 --> 1:20:20.080 And when he would come to town. Uh. We would 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:22.439 try to find a way to be able to to 1:20:23.439 --> 1:20:27.439 meet and I remember that the one distinct day I 1:20:27.520 --> 1:20:29.680 went to a hotel to pick him up. And this 1:20:29.840 --> 1:20:34.000 was back in the trench, croat and diaper days, yes, sir, 1:20:35.439 --> 1:20:39.200 and we were going back to I lived at my 1:20:39.280 --> 1:20:42.600 parents house because in the on the bottom floor was 1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:45.360 a double uh level house and on the bottom that's 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:47.320 where I had on my stuff and we were supposed 1:20:47.360 --> 1:20:50.360 to be going back to my house to to play, 1:20:50.920 --> 1:20:53.000 you know, so we could jam and stuff. Then he 1:20:53.040 --> 1:20:54.840 got a call and we didn't have to take him back. 1:20:54.880 --> 1:20:57.280 We didn't. We didn't get that far. But the idea 1:20:57.479 --> 1:21:00.720 was that we developed really a relationship from the standpoint 1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:05.360 of just being again in support of what each other 1:21:05.560 --> 1:21:09.439 was doing and a willingness to kind of share. And 1:21:09.600 --> 1:21:14.280 as eccentric will call it, as he could have been 1:21:15.280 --> 1:21:18.240 when I would be with him, he was very down earth, 1:21:18.439 --> 1:21:22.080 very very real, because the music was our common bond 1:21:22.200 --> 1:21:25.679 and our association with one another started there. We became friends. 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:29.320 But we started there and then years passed, you know, 1:21:29.360 --> 1:21:31.880 and he just now on the album that you asked 1:21:32.080 --> 1:21:34.639 asked about. I know, I remember that I he asked 1:21:34.680 --> 1:21:37.639 me to do. He asked me to to write out 1:21:37.720 --> 1:21:42.080 the string arrangement for I think the song was called Baby, 1:21:44.479 --> 1:21:48.880 and then I then there was another album where he 1:21:49.040 --> 1:21:51.880 asked me about a piano solo that I had done 1:21:51.920 --> 1:21:59.120 on one of my albums. You know, he was listening 1:21:59.160 --> 1:22:03.120 to something because he was ask about specific stuff sometimes 1:22:03.160 --> 1:22:04.640 how did you do this? And what does that? And 1:22:05.920 --> 1:22:08.360 what's what makes up this chord and blah blah blah. 1:22:09.720 --> 1:22:12.200 So you know we would talk like that and then 1:22:12.200 --> 1:22:13.760 I would hear his stuff and you know they'll be 1:22:13.840 --> 1:22:15.920 oh m G. You know, it's like stuff going on. 1:22:16.160 --> 1:22:18.880 There was just really uh, it was great. His big 1:22:19.000 --> 1:22:21.640 yet big influence was Slye and Slide was you know, 1:22:21.720 --> 1:22:25.040 from San Francisco, so everybody in California was like that 1:22:25.200 --> 1:22:27.360 was one of our game changers, you know in terms 1:22:27.400 --> 1:22:31.080 of the music, and you ask questions about that. And 1:22:31.240 --> 1:22:32.800 he liked jazz and he was all in all this 1:22:32.840 --> 1:22:34.840 different kind of stuff and just would ask a lot 1:22:34.920 --> 1:22:37.320 of questions. That we didn't see each other for a while, 1:22:37.400 --> 1:22:41.439 and then when Purple Rain was about to come out, 1:22:41.520 --> 1:22:43.360 we happened to be in New York at the same 1:22:43.439 --> 1:22:45.679 time and happened to be staying at the same hotel. 1:22:46.000 --> 1:22:49.400 How he knew that, I don't know. But he called 1:22:49.840 --> 1:22:52.360 and I said, well, where are you? And he said downstairs? 1:22:55.360 --> 1:22:57.800 And I said, well where downstairs? It would be a 1:22:57.840 --> 1:23:02.360 little more specific. I'm in restaurant. There's no one here. 1:23:03.160 --> 1:23:06.040 Can you come down? So I said, okay, So I 1:23:06.080 --> 1:23:08.280 went down to the restaurant he had. The restaurant was closed, 1:23:08.320 --> 1:23:12.280 and we sat and he was really nervous about Purple Rain. 1:23:13.560 --> 1:23:15.680 He was like, he says, you know, I've kind of 1:23:15.720 --> 1:23:17.320 put it all on the line on this. When I said, 1:23:17.320 --> 1:23:19.120 what did you do the best you possibly good? He 1:23:19.160 --> 1:23:23.280 said yeah. I said, well then let it go because this, 1:23:27.160 --> 1:23:28.960 I said, because it's gonna you know, it's gonna be 1:23:29.200 --> 1:23:31.160 what it's gonna be. I mean's a new medium for you. 1:23:31.240 --> 1:23:34.439 I'm sure the music is stellar. You put your heart 1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:37.600 and soul into it, and that's about all you can 1:23:37.640 --> 1:23:39.400 do is done. So let it, you know, just now 1:23:40.080 --> 1:23:43.040 enjoy the ride, whatever that is. And you know, I 1:23:43.120 --> 1:23:45.160 went to the premier and I said, what was he worried? 1:23:47.520 --> 1:23:50.720 You know, So we have that kind of rapport and 1:23:50.800 --> 1:23:53.000 then we had another one of those kinds of moments. 1:23:53.960 --> 1:23:56.320 The year he did that he opened the Grammys with Beyonce. 1:23:58.680 --> 1:24:01.280 Remember that I was there. That was my first one, 1:24:02.000 --> 1:24:07.160 that was the award. That was an awesome part of 1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:11.880 that production. Yes, so let me tell you what happened. 1:24:15.800 --> 1:24:19.320 So let me tell you what happened then. So you 1:24:19.479 --> 1:24:23.840 remember Prince and Beyonce did a killer opening for the show. 1:24:24.439 --> 1:24:27.040 And when we the way that the Grammys worked because 1:24:27.080 --> 1:24:30.160 it's live, they rehearsed the entire show top to bottom, 1:24:31.120 --> 1:24:36.360 then they reset it and run it live. So they 1:24:36.439 --> 1:24:40.160 were rehearsing and the producer direct you know, there was 1:24:40.240 --> 1:24:43.920 some pre recording that in the first uh his segment, 1:24:45.439 --> 1:24:48.720 and the director and producer came to me and said, 1:24:48.840 --> 1:24:51.200 you have got to go and convince him to do 1:24:51.360 --> 1:24:55.000 it live live, just to do everything live. And they 1:24:55.040 --> 1:24:57.120 had been rehearsing for a week and it was slamming, 1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:01.880 and I said, well, was there a reason that you 1:25:01.920 --> 1:25:03.960 would want to do it live live? And they said yes, 1:25:04.000 --> 1:25:06.000 because it'll just be live, blah blah blah. And I'm 1:25:06.000 --> 1:25:08.599 saying to myself, it's on television. I was about to say, 1:25:08.600 --> 1:25:12.320 I don't even know what you're talking about. Just play 1:25:12.520 --> 1:25:16.000 the whole thing live. Don't have any prerecorded happening, No 1:25:16.400 --> 1:25:24.000 pre pro tools, doubling, nothing that is enhancing TV at home. Yeah, 1:25:24.160 --> 1:25:29.800 but you know, so anyway, I said, well I'll talk 1:25:29.880 --> 1:25:34.400 to him. So I went to him and I said, okay, uh, 1:25:34.800 --> 1:25:40.080 they're they're asking me two for you to consider doing 1:25:40.120 --> 1:25:44.680 this live completely, do not to not use any of 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:49.200 the pro tools and things and like that. What do 1:25:49.320 --> 1:25:53.280 you think I should do? He says, So I look 1:25:53.320 --> 1:25:57.280 around for he hidden microphones because he's just looking at you. 1:25:57.439 --> 1:26:02.599 Took my stuff off. I said, look, they're gonna run 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:05.920 this show down. You and Beyonce are opening the show. 1:26:05.920 --> 1:26:08.479 They're gonna run the show down. Everything's gonna be fine. 1:26:08.520 --> 1:26:10.479 They're they're set up in the booth. They're set up 1:26:10.479 --> 1:26:13.200 in bla blah blah blah blah, and they're gonna run 1:26:13.280 --> 1:26:15.800 this down and then they're gonna reset and the next 1:26:15.960 --> 1:26:20.839 time we see you, it's going out. Nobody has rehearsed 1:26:20.880 --> 1:26:25.760 it that way. Nobody has rehearsed it that way. Cameraman 1:26:25.920 --> 1:26:29.280 hasn't rehearsed it that way. SI man hasn't rehearsed it 1:26:29.400 --> 1:26:33.320 that way. The engineer who's mixing in your stuff, your 1:26:33.400 --> 1:26:38.360 guys haven't rehearsed it that way, he says, I understand. 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:41.320 I said, okay. Now, I said, what I can do 1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:45.519 is I'll go out in the house and I'll make 1:26:45.560 --> 1:26:51.639 sure that that the house is banging so the other 1:26:51.840 --> 1:26:55.960 tens of millens of people will feel that energy because 1:26:56.040 --> 1:26:58.519 the house will feel that energy, but the sound will 1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:01.280 be pristine going out. And I think that needs to 1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:03.559 be the priority. He says, yes, I feel the same way. 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:05.880 So I said, okay. So I went back to the 1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:09.679 directors that probably now never work again, and I said, 1:27:09.760 --> 1:27:14.160 you know, he's just not feeling that, so maybe we 1:27:14.200 --> 1:27:16.479 should go what we know was gonna work and they 1:27:16.600 --> 1:27:19.920 and they said, okay, but that was one of those times. 1:27:22.439 --> 1:27:25.439 This is my point, is like, what would have been 1:27:25.520 --> 1:27:28.560 different is the fact that everyone who was prepared to 1:27:28.760 --> 1:27:32.920 do it a certain way not been prepared, and the 1:27:33.360 --> 1:27:37.280 first note of that show that they were opening would 1:27:37.320 --> 1:27:42.000 have potentially created a disaster. And it turns out that 1:27:42.080 --> 1:27:45.679 it was one of the best performances ever. Everybody knew 1:27:45.720 --> 1:27:49.600 exactly what needed to happen, and it was amazing and 1:27:49.960 --> 1:27:53.160 it was electric. They did a great job. And you know, 1:27:53.439 --> 1:27:55.880 but I I say that I share that story again 1:27:56.120 --> 1:28:01.439 to indicate the idea of respect and to indicate the 1:28:01.600 --> 1:28:06.519 idea of sharing. The agenda was to come off killing. 1:28:07.840 --> 1:28:10.840 How you get there in your methodology has to be 1:28:11.040 --> 1:28:14.160 organized so that you can come off killing, not the 1:28:14.320 --> 1:28:18.080 ego of somebody who feels like they just want to decide, 1:28:18.640 --> 1:28:21.080 just to be able to say and they did it 1:28:21.200 --> 1:28:26.120 live at whose expense? You know? So again that community 1:28:26.800 --> 1:28:29.679 protecting each other. Use the word electric and it reminded 1:28:29.680 --> 1:28:32.720 me of something else. Um, you did uh SNL with 1:28:32.840 --> 1:28:36.920 Prince in nine? Can you give us a recollection? Which 1:28:37.680 --> 1:28:43.160 you know? That was the performance of Electric Chair on SNL. 1:28:43.200 --> 1:28:51.479 There was the fift anniversary Huh, look at him? How 1:28:51.640 --> 1:28:53.280 I missed that? I don't know if she's on a 1:28:53.320 --> 1:28:57.800 piano that says her name on the side. He uh 1:28:58.439 --> 1:29:02.280 called and asked if I would do that, I'll show 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:06.760 it to you after what. Yeah, so I thought you 1:29:06.840 --> 1:29:08.600 called it as he says, I'm going to play the 1:29:08.640 --> 1:29:14.640 fifteenth anniversary show of SNL and Batman was coming out 1:29:14.680 --> 1:29:16.960 and I'm gonna do Electric Chair and I want you 1:29:17.000 --> 1:29:22.000 to do it with me. Okay, fine, So he says, well, 1:29:22.040 --> 1:29:25.080 we're gonna rehears and we're gonna have eleven days of rehearsal. 1:29:26.240 --> 1:29:32.560 How many songs you're doing on the show. We have 1:29:32.640 --> 1:29:35.760 a rehearsal tape, don't we? I think we do. Yeah, 1:29:37.160 --> 1:29:39.439 I haven't. I have an audio. Was it done at 1:29:39.560 --> 1:29:43.679 S I r the rehearsal tapes? The rehearsal tapes, because 1:29:43.760 --> 1:29:48.000 I don't know for part of it wherever it is. 1:29:49.040 --> 1:29:55.400 I have at least fourteen complete. I wish the audience 1:29:55.439 --> 1:29:57.960 could see that boss Bill is going through his bag. 1:29:59.240 --> 1:30:06.160 I'm just trying to tell everything. Yeah, we're collectors of well, 1:30:06.200 --> 1:30:09.720 I mean, the thing is, it's just the science, the 1:30:09.840 --> 1:30:14.679 science of constantly rehearsing. Yes, intrigues me more than anything. 1:30:14.840 --> 1:30:20.560 So yeah, they rehearsed that song for eleven days. I 1:30:20.640 --> 1:30:24.479 think I came in on day nine. Well, I mean 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:30.560 I was like, dude, I I can't leave, but he 1:30:30.640 --> 1:30:33.320 said okay. So I came in on the ninth day, 1:30:33.439 --> 1:30:36.479 I think something like that, and I rehearsed it, you know, 1:30:36.600 --> 1:30:38.080 that day and the next day, and then we went 1:30:38.080 --> 1:30:42.680 to New York and you run it down. So he 1:30:42.800 --> 1:30:49.080 had put on the on the piano, which was like, wow, 1:30:49.160 --> 1:30:53.679 this is crazy. And I think they were the band 1:30:53.840 --> 1:30:58.760 wasn't transition there? Um, so I don't know if this was, 1:31:00.040 --> 1:31:01.800 you know, looking back now, looking back on it, I 1:31:01.800 --> 1:31:03.600 don't know if this was like a lightweight audition. I 1:31:03.640 --> 1:31:06.200 don't know what this was. But the idea though that 1:31:06.320 --> 1:31:07.960 he did call me to participate in that, and that 1:31:08.120 --> 1:31:10.120 he felt that it was a big deal and a 1:31:10.200 --> 1:31:12.600 big enough deal that he would want my name on 1:31:12.640 --> 1:31:16.280 the piano, I thought was, Wow, this is and yeah, 1:31:16.400 --> 1:31:18.839 I mean we do have that. You do have rehearsal, 1:31:18.880 --> 1:31:21.439 I was going to say from them from the night 1:31:21.479 --> 1:31:25.200 of the show, Yeah, that's gonna tell us that's all 1:31:25.200 --> 1:31:29.240 you're gonna do that. I thought he was thought that 1:31:29.400 --> 1:31:37.320 it was clearing stuff a lot like it was amazing. 1:31:37.400 --> 1:31:40.640 Though it was amazing, and and see, it's a different situation. 1:31:40.760 --> 1:31:44.360 It's different when you know someone and you see there 1:31:45.040 --> 1:31:49.200 their process from afar. But having been there at that 1:31:49.400 --> 1:31:52.000 short at the short rehearsal and that during that short 1:31:52.439 --> 1:31:55.080 you know time that I was there, this gave me 1:31:55.160 --> 1:32:00.880 a little even additional insight into his detail, into his 1:32:01.960 --> 1:32:05.920 listening to every part in every line, into an understanding 1:32:06.000 --> 1:32:11.000 that so much of what we saw that looked so 1:32:11.439 --> 1:32:15.080 effortless and spontaneous was built out of the security of 1:32:15.240 --> 1:32:19.479 knowing that everything was in place, you know it was 1:32:19.600 --> 1:32:21.800 it was. It was great to be able to to 1:32:21.920 --> 1:32:34.160 witness that. All right, possess Oh okay, what's your question? No, no, no, 1:32:34.720 --> 1:32:37.240 I was just moving to possess because we should talk 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:45.439 about your kidding. Yeah, well man, possess Okay, what was it? 1:32:45.600 --> 1:32:50.800 Always the hit? But then there's always the thing back 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:53.800 in the damning. When I was a kid, it was 1:32:53.880 --> 1:32:57.160 about you. You would knowing you would buy the forty five, 1:32:58.320 --> 1:33:01.519 but you better listen to that side, yes, because something 1:33:01.680 --> 1:33:05.200 was usually happening there. I told Smokey Robinson one time, 1:33:05.200 --> 1:33:07.880 I said, dude, you could release the whole album of 1:33:08.160 --> 1:33:12.439 B sides and so you know what we became accustomed 1:33:12.479 --> 1:33:16.080 to was, you know, don't sleep your your your entire presentation, 1:33:16.200 --> 1:33:21.400 your whole album. UM needs to have those moods in 1:33:21.479 --> 1:33:23.680 it and things in it that allow for everybody to 1:33:23.720 --> 1:33:26.800 come to it because you never know, you know, what's 1:33:26.800 --> 1:33:30.840 gonna really resonate with that? Right? Haven't you heard? Was 1:33:31.240 --> 1:33:34.560 was possessed? Yes? How did you feel about when that 1:33:35.080 --> 1:33:38.800 it kind of got resurrected by groove? Thing? Great? Okay? 1:33:39.240 --> 1:33:42.040 How many things I felt? I felt great? When? Yeah, 1:33:42.040 --> 1:33:53.599 I was gonna say yes, yet the whole and your 1:33:53.640 --> 1:33:56.160 whole string intro. Now here's the thing about the string 1:33:56.240 --> 1:34:01.479 introp because most people didn't know you that drains can 1:34:01.560 --> 1:34:08.040 be funky, but they didn't typically in in those records. 1:34:08.479 --> 1:34:11.240 You know, they didn't get to do that. But I 1:34:11.360 --> 1:34:15.880 know they can do that. So that's definitely so you know, 1:34:16.040 --> 1:34:18.840 I would, I would, I would add you know, I 1:34:18.920 --> 1:34:24.200 tell my students sometimes that I purposely hide the vegetables 1:34:24.240 --> 1:34:28.840 in the dessert. You don't always know the thing that 1:34:29.000 --> 1:34:31.920 somebody is contributing or the lesson that's happening through the 1:34:32.040 --> 1:34:35.920 particular activity that they're doing. But later when you dissected 1:34:35.920 --> 1:34:39.000 a little bit and you find out other stuff, you realize, Wow, 1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:40.960 what an influence that had. Now Here was the thing 1:34:41.240 --> 1:34:45.559 I was very Uh Obviously the genre version that they 1:34:45.640 --> 1:34:49.280 did was awesome, and I was really elated at Kirk Franklin. 1:34:49.320 --> 1:34:52.760 But you know what elated me as much as what 1:34:52.920 --> 1:34:55.720 they did with the song the fact that they used 1:34:55.760 --> 1:34:59.640 a string intro. Because you work so hard on it, 1:35:01.280 --> 1:35:04.560 it's like wow. So you know, little things like that 1:35:04.720 --> 1:35:07.280 come up and let you know that, uh, you know, 1:35:07.360 --> 1:35:10.720 people are listening. They don't always understand all of the details, 1:35:11.479 --> 1:35:15.160 but they feel it and uh so, yeah, that was awesome. 1:35:15.479 --> 1:35:17.479 How many times I settled for your lovery? Mate? Was 1:35:17.560 --> 1:35:23.680 that music? Did it right well? And it's been sampled 1:35:23.800 --> 1:35:26.600 a lot. It is one of the sample requests that 1:35:26.680 --> 1:35:30.760 we get the most often, speaking of samples giving it 1:35:30.840 --> 1:35:33.640 up as giving up talk about that. So I love that. 1:35:35.960 --> 1:35:40.400 I wanted to do a duet on the record, and 1:35:40.520 --> 1:35:45.120 I asked Stevie to do it with me, and he 1:35:45.880 --> 1:35:48.880 we couldn't make the dates hook up hook up, and 1:35:49.000 --> 1:35:53.320 I was like, oh, man, okay, But I had previously 1:35:53.520 --> 1:35:57.280 met d J. Rogers. I loved his voice and his delivery, 1:35:57.360 --> 1:36:00.880 and he was a friend of Reggie Andrews. So I said, well, 1:36:00.960 --> 1:36:04.400 then maybe DJ will do it. And he came in 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:08.160 and slated. I was laughing so hard most of the time, 1:36:08.240 --> 1:36:13.519 just because he was just so soulful that I'm surprised 1:36:13.560 --> 1:36:15.400 if my laughter didn't end up on front of that. 1:36:16.439 --> 1:36:19.479 I could hardly sing. I was just chest your cat, 1:36:19.600 --> 1:36:22.120 you know, smiling. It was Can I ask you about 1:36:22.160 --> 1:36:28.280 these beads? You know what I'm saying? And you held 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:33.040 up the beads and the braids and the consciousness and 1:36:38.720 --> 1:36:41.240 so was it a conscious decision and then like, I 1:36:41.320 --> 1:36:43.000 just I want it's a it's a process. We all 1:36:43.040 --> 1:36:44.680 know that this is not something easy to do to 1:36:44.760 --> 1:36:50.160 keep it fresh as an artist and having and you 1:36:50.280 --> 1:36:53.599 need a good chiropractice that because on the other cover 1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:57.200 you kind of leaned because it looked like it was yeah, yeah, 1:36:57.520 --> 1:37:00.880 well it was something that we you decided to do. 1:37:02.800 --> 1:37:07.120 I wanted. I wanted braids, um because I thought that 1:37:07.200 --> 1:37:09.519 they looked really beautiful, and I thought that it was 1:37:09.600 --> 1:37:12.639 another way too. And I had a frow for so long, 1:37:13.280 --> 1:37:15.040 and I thought that it was another way to be 1:37:15.160 --> 1:37:18.640 able to kind of express express a certain pride and 1:37:19.200 --> 1:37:21.200 a certain consciousness and things like that, and to be 1:37:21.240 --> 1:37:23.200 able to do it in in some way that was different. 1:37:23.720 --> 1:37:26.479 And then the lady that was braiding my hair su 1:37:26.560 --> 1:37:31.280 bungle A Bradley West is her name, and she uh said, well, 1:37:31.360 --> 1:37:34.400 you know, um, she was going through these books you 1:37:34.479 --> 1:37:40.439 know of African uh folklore and styles and things like that, 1:37:40.560 --> 1:37:44.160 and she said, let's try some beads. So we did 1:37:44.479 --> 1:37:46.240 some beads and it became like a thing and it 1:37:46.360 --> 1:37:50.120 was really a beautiful way to adorn these braids uh 1:37:50.240 --> 1:37:55.720 and sort of frame a very um natural feeling, but 1:37:55.880 --> 1:37:58.800 to do something that, you know, just added that that 1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:03.280 thing as an artist and a frontal girl who bore 1:38:03.320 --> 1:38:06.040 braids when you started getting into the jam like how 1:38:06.200 --> 1:38:17.720 was you ma choreograph? How you every time? Yeah? But no, 1:38:17.920 --> 1:38:20.439 it was a style that was really became really really 1:38:20.520 --> 1:38:22.680 popular and other people started doing it and it was 1:38:22.760 --> 1:38:25.800 really cool and I enjoyed it for a long long time. 1:38:25.880 --> 1:38:27.920 It was good, easy to maintain, you know, on the road. 1:38:28.080 --> 1:38:31.800 Always looked nice, and you know, it was cool. I 1:38:31.960 --> 1:38:34.679 was always always wanted to ask you ready, Freddie Washington, 1:38:35.920 --> 1:38:37.680 that is like forget me. I mean, that's one of 1:38:37.760 --> 1:38:41.559 the top five baselines of all times? Can I ask 1:38:41.600 --> 1:38:50.640 it about that? Though? Okay, so it's it's in uh Steve. 1:38:53.040 --> 1:38:56.040 I know that most bass players will choose E because 1:38:56.400 --> 1:39:03.800 it's an open e. But that was a very transition 1:39:05.439 --> 1:39:14.760 to the bridge. Why why didn't he just take like 1:39:15.120 --> 1:39:19.720 why did he just not take a bass solo in 1:39:21.040 --> 1:39:27.400 uh F sharp the key of the song? Because he's Freddie? 1:39:30.080 --> 1:39:34.920 No I done it. I was like, oh, oh, you 1:39:35.040 --> 1:39:38.120 just said anything. You know, here's what I am. I 1:39:38.160 --> 1:39:41.400 tay story because there's a story. Yes, okay, So Freddie 1:39:41.439 --> 1:39:45.559 is from Oakland, California north of here, and he had 1:39:45.600 --> 1:39:49.360 been you know, playing bass, coming and coming around when 1:39:49.400 --> 1:39:51.360 he would when I was up there for sessions and stuffing. 1:39:51.400 --> 1:39:53.760 We had mutual friends, and we finally met him. I 1:39:53.800 --> 1:39:56.080 heard him playing us a man. He's he's really good. 1:39:56.960 --> 1:40:00.719 So he decided he wanted to live in Santeles because 1:40:00.760 --> 1:40:04.600 he wanted to do sessions. So he called. You know, 1:40:05.280 --> 1:40:07.320 I used to do some gigs and occasion call him 1:40:07.360 --> 1:40:09.680 from the Bay Area to come and play, you know, 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:11.720 a little gig a weekend or something like that. So 1:40:11.800 --> 1:40:13.880 we became good friends and he would stay at my 1:40:13.960 --> 1:40:16.439 parents house and stuff like that. So then one day 1:40:16.520 --> 1:40:19.679 he just called and he says, Okay, I'm about done 1:40:19.760 --> 1:40:22.559 up here. I really want to come down there, really 1:40:22.640 --> 1:40:27.200 try to get in on the recording session scene. As 1:40:27.240 --> 1:40:32.360 your mama can I live on her couch for and 1:40:32.520 --> 1:40:35.599 so my parents were pretty progressive, you know. I said, 1:40:35.640 --> 1:40:38.280 this is gonna stretch it, but okay, and they said, 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:41.280 oh yes, Freddy can stay down here in a little 1:40:41.800 --> 1:40:43.680 guest room for a little bit. So he did. He 1:40:43.760 --> 1:40:46.839 came down. So we played every day, as you gonna imagine, 1:40:47.160 --> 1:40:49.400 we played every day, and sometimes he would play drums 1:40:49.439 --> 1:40:51.600 and I would play bass. Sometimes he played keyboard and 1:40:51.600 --> 1:40:53.840 I would play drums. Sometimes you would play bass, you know. 1:40:54.040 --> 1:40:57.280 And we had a little for track, so we would 1:40:57.320 --> 1:41:03.000 record everything. And one day, uh he was he was 1:41:03.080 --> 1:41:04.720 home and I had just come from the market or 1:41:04.760 --> 1:41:08.479 something like that, and I'm hearing this baseline, that one 1:41:09.160 --> 1:41:12.320 and I'm saying, WHOA, what's that? I don't know, just something, 1:41:12.640 --> 1:41:14.920 and so I said, well, let's record it. So recorded it, 1:41:15.800 --> 1:41:18.639 and that's how the chorus and everything kind of came together. 1:41:18.640 --> 1:41:21.559 I said, well, this baseline is so fierce chord wise, 1:41:22.640 --> 1:41:26.639 it doesn't need that. That's the that's the vibe, that's 1:41:26.640 --> 1:41:29.479 the movement right there. So we were doing this and 1:41:29.840 --> 1:41:33.040 as we continue to play it, um we said, well 1:41:33.080 --> 1:41:35.320 it needs it needs something, but it doesn't need to 1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:37.439 go far, but it needs to it needs to go 1:41:37.600 --> 1:41:41.600 away from this and come back and there you have it. 1:41:42.040 --> 1:41:48.360 Do do do do do? I was like, what role 1:41:48.439 --> 1:41:52.000 did it? Was? Charles mems he what role did he playing? Producing? Like, 1:41:52.080 --> 1:41:54.040 how did in terms of taking it from just a 1:41:54.080 --> 1:41:57.000 four track demo to a fully produced song? Well, Charles 1:41:57.080 --> 1:41:58.599 I had known since high school. He went to Lock 1:41:58.680 --> 1:42:02.080 High School. Also great pianist. So you hired your high 1:42:02.120 --> 1:42:04.960 school because Gerald also played in your band, right? Is 1:42:05.000 --> 1:42:11.360 that him playing the solo? That is Gerald's first recorded 1:42:11.600 --> 1:42:15.439 solos ever on record, and that is a first, that's 1:42:15.439 --> 1:42:19.000 the first TAKEO. Wait, is that also Gerald doing the 1:42:19.080 --> 1:42:29.160 Hollywood Shuffle Team? No? No, wats okay? Really Ernie Watts? Really? Okay? Okay? 1:42:29.880 --> 1:42:34.160 Who taught Gerrold? Who come over to the school played with? 1:42:34.520 --> 1:42:36.519 Did he play with Swen or I know that he 1:42:36.600 --> 1:42:41.760 did stuff with He did a whole bunch of yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. 1:42:42.120 --> 1:42:45.639 He was like Quincy's go to solos on everything. Yeah, 1:42:45.720 --> 1:42:50.280 he was solo solos on all that stuff. That so 1:42:50.439 --> 1:42:56.120 Charles in the studio, Like Charles back then, the producer 1:42:56.520 --> 1:43:00.240 it was not necessarily a producer's medium where every where 1:43:00.280 --> 1:43:04.320 the producer would change things. The producer's primary role at 1:43:04.400 --> 1:43:09.360 that time was to manage that buzz and to be 1:43:09.600 --> 1:43:12.680 sure that the flow of the sessions, because they were 1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:16.559 all alive, that the flow of the sessions yielded enough 1:43:17.160 --> 1:43:19.840 work each day. And you know, they would have musical 1:43:19.920 --> 1:43:22.080 things to say because especially as a player, I'm not 1:43:22.200 --> 1:43:24.200 in the booth to be able to hear it. As 1:43:24.240 --> 1:43:27.000 it's going across. So somebody that you're close enough to 1:43:27.200 --> 1:43:31.839 musically who can say we need one more or careful 1:43:31.880 --> 1:43:34.280 a letter B or whatever the situation is, or to say, 1:43:34.400 --> 1:43:37.000 I know it felt weird, but it's killing you need 1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:39.040 to come in now and check it out or what 1:43:39.240 --> 1:43:41.160 you know, just would have suggestions to keep keep the 1:43:41.200 --> 1:43:45.479 flow going and then after you had captured then be 1:43:45.640 --> 1:43:50.519 able to help you, um, continue to take those ideas 1:43:50.720 --> 1:43:55.320 and mold them into the final product. UM A little 1:43:55.320 --> 1:43:59.000 bit different from composing by committee or where you're handing 1:43:59.040 --> 1:44:01.080 it into the producer and and it's going to be 1:44:01.160 --> 1:44:04.479 completely they're a new canvas or some completely something that 1:44:04.520 --> 1:44:07.200 they would do. So Charles was really good at being 1:44:07.280 --> 1:44:11.680 able to um be really inside my head and yet 1:44:11.760 --> 1:44:17.880 remains uh totally objective to what the final result would 1:44:18.000 --> 1:44:21.519 need to be and monitor our workflow in our work progress. 1:44:21.800 --> 1:44:28.439 So that song becomes a hit, how does your life change? Well, Uh, 1:44:28.800 --> 1:44:30.519 first of all, you need to know the story that 1:44:30.680 --> 1:44:34.160 it didn't. It was not received at the that whole album, 1:44:34.240 --> 1:44:36.240 that whole straight from the Hard album which has number 1:44:36.280 --> 1:44:38.840 one on it, Remind Me on It, Get Me Not. 1:44:39.800 --> 1:44:43.639 It was not received well at Electric when we turned 1:44:43.680 --> 1:44:56.120 it in should say, yes, very a very well meaning man, 1:44:56.240 --> 1:45:06.240 but his name was Oscar Fields. So dealing with as 1:45:06.280 --> 1:45:09.439 far as artists, artists well over Washington was on the 1:45:09.520 --> 1:45:13.160 label at the time, was on the same league Lady 1:45:13.240 --> 1:45:16.600 White and Peanut Butter they want the label. It was 1:45:16.640 --> 1:45:19.280 a bunch of folks. Someone got my Peanut Butter reference 1:45:19.320 --> 1:45:22.479 from yesterday. I never got to explain that to you guys. 1:45:24.120 --> 1:45:25.559 So there were there, you know, there were a few 1:45:25.600 --> 1:45:31.439 of us because we represented this cross hybrid of again 1:45:32.640 --> 1:45:36.840 jazz sensibilities running through the music. But the music was 1:45:37.320 --> 1:45:41.200 danceable and part of again part of our heritage in 1:45:41.360 --> 1:45:43.720 terms of you know, R and B and and all 1:45:43.760 --> 1:45:51.080 of that. So, uh, you, most of the black acts 1:45:51.520 --> 1:45:56.240 at a large label like Electra, we're not necessarily given 1:45:56.400 --> 1:46:00.719 access to the same kinds of promotion and no tools 1:46:00.880 --> 1:46:04.160 and help that became part of the day. The money 1:46:04.200 --> 1:46:06.120 would be less. And in terms of this is when 1:46:06.600 --> 1:46:11.120 we were kicking over into now, videos having to be 1:46:11.320 --> 1:46:13.960 one of the main things that would allow for people 1:46:14.000 --> 1:46:17.840 to be able to to see and you couldn't do that. 1:46:17.920 --> 1:46:21.760 And unless your record like crossed Over and and and 1:46:21.960 --> 1:46:26.880 and even promotional dollars. Even touring dollars were set up 1:46:27.560 --> 1:46:31.320 with some kind of criteria where you had to sell 1:46:31.439 --> 1:46:34.600 so many records first and crossover unless you had some 1:46:34.720 --> 1:46:36.320 other means by which you could make it happen. It 1:46:36.439 --> 1:46:40.160 was Quincy Jones that really told us, Uh, you better 1:46:40.240 --> 1:46:43.360 get with this indrependent promotion thing and and figure out 1:46:43.439 --> 1:46:47.800 how you are going to be the first entrepreneur in 1:46:47.840 --> 1:46:51.160 the first catalyst for getting the music out there. You 1:46:51.240 --> 1:46:53.519 can't make people love it, but you gotta get it 1:46:53.560 --> 1:46:56.880 in front of them, and sometimes they leave the record 1:46:56.920 --> 1:46:59.439 companies at that time, they would they would miss because 1:46:59.439 --> 1:47:01.880 even if you have of the video, I'm like, where 1:47:01.920 --> 1:47:04.880 can you service the video? Well, that was there just 1:47:05.600 --> 1:47:10.479 allowing you not to have you know, just hit me. 1:47:12.240 --> 1:47:15.360 Did you tour it a lot or at all? Because 1:47:15.920 --> 1:47:21.960 besides soult train, you didn't see me much. I didn't, 1:47:22.200 --> 1:47:26.160 I mean, jeffreysarn the dollars weren't there for them to 1:47:26.320 --> 1:47:29.160 justify any kind of help with the tour. And at 1:47:29.240 --> 1:47:34.320 that point, Uh, part of would record company promotion and 1:47:34.439 --> 1:47:37.760 marketing plans included you being able to get out in 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:40.400 front of people. So I ended up I did get out, 1:47:40.560 --> 1:47:42.240 but I ended up on a lot of these all 1:47:42.360 --> 1:47:45.880 star events, but why the sprofessor or like that sort 1:47:45.880 --> 1:47:48.799 of thing. Well, and and and somewhere was like multiple 1:47:49.000 --> 1:47:53.160 artists playing type playing, and then you say, well, here's 1:47:53.200 --> 1:47:56.040 my new single and then you have you know, Lenny 1:47:56.080 --> 1:47:58.559 White actually playing Forget Me Nots in front of people 1:47:58.600 --> 1:48:01.240 for the very first time. I mean when people heard 1:48:01.280 --> 1:48:03.519 it before it came out. He was the first drummer 1:48:03.520 --> 1:48:07.280 that played in and you got the saxophone solo being 1:48:07.280 --> 1:48:12.880 played by Stanley turnteen instead and awful, let me tell you. 1:48:13.640 --> 1:48:15.760 But the idea was that was the way I could 1:48:15.800 --> 1:48:17.400 get out because it was just me. I didn't have 1:48:17.479 --> 1:48:19.960 to support a band, and I didn't have to support 1:48:20.000 --> 1:48:23.920 all the other kinds of things that go out to 1:48:24.200 --> 1:48:34.240 Al Hayman, he missed. Haman was the young, upstart uh 1:48:35.160 --> 1:48:37.800 uh concert promoter that was going to turn it all 1:48:37.880 --> 1:48:40.759 on its ears because because he saw so many artists 1:48:40.840 --> 1:48:43.840 not able to get in front of their audiences, so 1:48:43.960 --> 1:48:50.920 he created ways by having these multi artists things. He 1:48:50.960 --> 1:48:53.160 couldn't do it on the scale of of of of 1:48:53.479 --> 1:48:56.600 the Budweiser super Fest and the Cool Jazz Festival, but 1:48:56.720 --> 1:48:59.840 he could do it in smaller things where he could 1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:02.760 take five or six of us and we would go 1:49:02.920 --> 1:49:05.160 and we would play different schools and things like that, 1:49:05.600 --> 1:49:08.599 colleges and places where he said to get the music 1:49:08.960 --> 1:49:11.160 and you guys as artists in front of these people, 1:49:11.160 --> 1:49:14.519 because when your music blows up, you know, it's a 1:49:14.600 --> 1:49:16.280 different thing. When you said, you know, I was there 1:49:16.280 --> 1:49:18.320 and I heard that song blah blah blah. So I 1:49:18.520 --> 1:49:22.680 really truly believe despite the fact that between Freddy and 1:49:22.760 --> 1:49:25.400 Charles and myself we put our life savings of a 1:49:25.520 --> 1:49:28.400 few dollars together to buy three weeks of interper promotion 1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:31.880 to get Forget Me, not at least in front of radio. 1:49:32.640 --> 1:49:38.000 I really think that having the idea that people appreciated 1:49:38.040 --> 1:49:40.000 it because I had played it out there before it 1:49:40.080 --> 1:49:41.760 was out and let them know that this is new 1:49:41.800 --> 1:49:43.679 and it's about to come out. Hey, it's either thumbs 1:49:43.720 --> 1:49:45.960 up with thumbs down. And then it was resounding thumbs 1:49:46.040 --> 1:49:47.920 up Forget Me. And this was a little ahead of 1:49:47.960 --> 1:49:51.920 the curve too. So it was that courage given by 1:49:52.000 --> 1:49:55.840 my people that allowed for me to be able to say, yeah, 1:49:55.840 --> 1:49:57.920 I would be worth trying to see what happens at 1:49:57.920 --> 1:49:59.840 the radio. When did it finally hit like when the 1:50:00.000 --> 1:50:01.840 how long did it take forward to them able to 1:50:01.880 --> 1:50:05.920 catch on? The label caught on maybe a month after 1:50:06.000 --> 1:50:07.360 he came out, to the point that they gave me 1:50:07.439 --> 1:50:13.960 my money back to them. So, okay, you it's rare 1:50:14.040 --> 1:50:18.639 that we get an artist who actually composes the songs 1:50:19.400 --> 1:50:27.920 that will later be sampled. Um, and you're just such 1:50:28.160 --> 1:50:36.120 a uh sample friendly artists? Is the not the myth 1:50:36.200 --> 1:50:38.560 true or whatever? Because I guess when we talk to 1:50:38.640 --> 1:50:44.000 Ali willis about uh, the the September effect of writing 1:50:44.000 --> 1:50:46.920 September Earth one and fire, And then she reminded us, well, 1:50:47.040 --> 1:50:49.639 I was one fifth of the writers. So even though 1:50:49.720 --> 1:50:53.639 that was a massive hit, sharing a check with five 1:50:53.680 --> 1:50:56.000 of the people still meant like, you know, don't quit 1:50:56.040 --> 1:50:59.559 your day and got work just yet. But as someone 1:51:00.000 --> 1:51:05.320 who has created music with the least seven to eight 1:51:05.479 --> 1:51:08.439 songs that you can pretty much stand the test of 1:51:08.520 --> 1:51:13.519 time of of hip hop sample ability, are you able 1:51:13.640 --> 1:51:18.560 to make a nice living off just the sample residuals? 1:51:19.479 --> 1:51:23.640 Or is it just like, Okay, I could put I 1:51:23.680 --> 1:51:27.599 could have steak with the beans, and right, I can 1:51:27.680 --> 1:51:33.320 put some cheese, get some new braids, because I guess, 1:51:33.520 --> 1:51:39.080 I guess the perception is always like that one hit 1:51:39.160 --> 1:51:41.120 single that caused me to retire for the rest of 1:51:41.160 --> 1:51:45.040 my life. Or man, if this to be the sampled 1:51:45.080 --> 1:51:48.240 on this thing, or somebody covers it like yeah, that 1:51:48.360 --> 1:51:52.040 sort of thing. So is that myth true or is 1:51:52.080 --> 1:51:55.719 it just like it's my mortgage cool for three months. 1:51:58.600 --> 1:52:03.479 I think that the mechanism um that allowed for somebody 1:52:03.560 --> 1:52:07.479 who is like like an Alley like a songwriter to 1:52:07.640 --> 1:52:11.680 be able to uh live on those royalties, that that 1:52:11.920 --> 1:52:14.400 that mechanism isn't there in a way that it used 1:52:14.400 --> 1:52:17.559 to be. So the samples are about as close as 1:52:17.640 --> 1:52:23.519 you'll get to what may have been covers before. Um. 1:52:24.520 --> 1:52:29.080 And you know, no dis because I totally get it. 1:52:29.200 --> 1:52:31.960 But you know, it ain't like the sample that everybody 1:52:32.400 --> 1:52:35.760 wants a sample. Your stuff doesn't have any money too 1:52:36.080 --> 1:52:40.280 at that moment to necessarily, uh pay you an advance 1:52:40.880 --> 1:52:43.559 or something like that, and those sample requests and uh 1:52:43.840 --> 1:52:46.960 those those kinds of licenses. I mean it would, especially 1:52:46.960 --> 1:52:48.519 the way things are now, it has to be like 1:52:49.040 --> 1:52:54.080 super massive for you to be able to see a difference. 1:52:54.760 --> 1:52:58.960 So it's about now having um the ability I think 1:52:59.040 --> 1:53:02.519 to do it many different ways. Sampling is an income stream. 1:53:02.800 --> 1:53:06.559 It is a decent one. But if somebody I don't think. 1:53:06.600 --> 1:53:09.479 I think we're the day of somebody being able to 1:53:09.680 --> 1:53:13.080 live off that is not there the way that it 1:53:14.080 --> 1:53:18.240 was when you were living off of royalties, because you 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:23.640 were receiving several sets of royalties, you were getting your mechanicals. 1:53:23.960 --> 1:53:26.519 You were getting if it was using the films, your 1:53:26.560 --> 1:53:29.720 performance sync, licenses, data la la la la la, and 1:53:29.840 --> 1:53:31.920 if you had covers, and if that cover happened to 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:35.240 be done in another language. There were all these mechanisms 1:53:35.400 --> 1:53:39.760 and companies that were promote the use of all of 1:53:39.800 --> 1:53:42.320 this music. If now the songs had to be worthy, 1:53:42.520 --> 1:53:45.400 they had to be able to stand up. But there 1:53:45.439 --> 1:53:50.200 are people who every day their job nine five they're 1:53:50.240 --> 1:53:52.839 writing songs all day. That was a job as a songwriter. 1:53:53.040 --> 1:53:55.320 We're getting back to the craft of that. I think 1:53:55.479 --> 1:54:01.360 we're getting back to people who are songwriters, um exercising 1:54:01.400 --> 1:54:04.080 that muscle every day to write ten or fifteen songs 1:54:04.160 --> 1:54:07.840 to find one that they can then release and see 1:54:08.120 --> 1:54:10.200 how it's gonna go and or hopefully get it to 1:54:10.240 --> 1:54:13.200 another artist or something like that. But it's it's it's 1:54:13.320 --> 1:54:15.920 I think it would be very difficult now to just 1:54:16.040 --> 1:54:20.040 make your living off of sample. I imagine. Let me 1:54:20.080 --> 1:54:22.400 tell you what the men in black check imagine. They 1:54:22.439 --> 1:54:24.920 had to be pretty good. It is. I could actually 1:54:24.960 --> 1:54:28.080 put the words savings back in my vocam. Indeed, that's 1:54:28.120 --> 1:54:35.120 what I'm talking about. I take that bag. Yeah that 1:54:35.240 --> 1:54:38.320 was that was good. So I recalled the rapid fire 1:54:38.440 --> 1:54:43.880 or we've missed anything? Um? Uh we didn't ask feel 1:54:43.920 --> 1:54:54.000 so real? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, it feels so real. Um, 1:54:54.920 --> 1:55:00.880 well Snoop Dogg cover Snoop Dogg. He did, and he 1:55:01.040 --> 1:55:07.680 was on the scene. I forgot. I forgot. Now I 1:55:07.720 --> 1:55:10.360 got one question I always I wanted to ask you, Um, 1:55:10.480 --> 1:55:12.120 as a musician, I mean, you have your ups and 1:55:12.240 --> 1:55:16.200 down periods whatever, Um, what was what would be considered 1:55:16.280 --> 1:55:19.800 your down period? Because to me, you've always worked and 1:55:19.880 --> 1:55:22.880 I've always seen you doing stuff. So what were some 1:55:23.040 --> 1:55:25.680 of a period you know where things just kind of 1:55:26.280 --> 1:55:28.400 you know, mab might got a little tight, and um, 1:55:28.560 --> 1:55:34.120 you know, how did you navigate that? Uh? My downs 1:55:34.240 --> 1:55:41.440 wouldn't be bad. They were moments of clarity, I guess 1:55:41.480 --> 1:55:45.840 the biggest one. I did one album for Arista, after 1:55:45.960 --> 1:55:50.160 my after my extent, after my standard fantasy, I mean sorry, 1:55:50.240 --> 1:55:54.160 after my stint at Elektra. Bob kras Now came in 1:55:54.320 --> 1:55:58.320 on my last of seven albums. Okay, that was the 1:55:58.320 --> 1:56:01.320 album that Feels a Real was And when I didn't 1:56:01.440 --> 1:56:04.960 see the kind of still after all we had gone through, 1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:08.920 after we had come they had, I never got that 1:56:09.160 --> 1:56:12.400 our relationship was such that I, in their mind, for 1:56:12.520 --> 1:56:16.240 whatever reason, earned even the opportunity to be able to 1:56:16.400 --> 1:56:19.400 use the best of their machine. So after that album 1:56:19.520 --> 1:56:24.000 and Feels a Real sat between when Doves Cries number one, 1:56:24.040 --> 1:56:28.040 feels a Real number two and tell me I'm not 1:56:28.200 --> 1:56:32.240 dreaming Michael Jackson and Jermaine Jackson and they didn't. But 1:56:33.000 --> 1:56:36.680 trying to take things to the next level, I said, 1:56:36.840 --> 1:56:40.320 come out. So I had been being courted a little 1:56:40.360 --> 1:56:45.320 bit by Clive Davis um he said he really really 1:56:45.400 --> 1:56:49.160 wanted me on the label. So I went to Arison. 1:56:50.360 --> 1:56:53.000 I did one album for Ariston and he held onto 1:56:53.080 --> 1:57:01.160 that album for almost close to three years. So it's 1:57:01.160 --> 1:57:05.240 sat while he's waiting on the hit. I don't hear 1:57:05.280 --> 1:57:07.960 a hit and see the last time of somebody telling 1:57:08.000 --> 1:57:11.960 me that it was, so I'm like to go off 1:57:11.960 --> 1:57:15.000 in your head. It went off in my head. But 1:57:15.240 --> 1:57:18.120 at the same time, you know, I said you know, 1:57:18.240 --> 1:57:20.600 I think I'm at a crossroads where I need to 1:57:20.680 --> 1:57:24.480 determine whether or not having done these albums and received 1:57:24.600 --> 1:57:28.720 all this great uh energy, you know, from an audience 1:57:28.760 --> 1:57:31.440 that accepted me as I was. When nobody was cared 1:57:31.560 --> 1:57:33.520 enough to even ask what we we're gonna do, we 1:57:33.680 --> 1:57:35.960 just go in and do to all of a sudden 1:57:36.040 --> 1:57:38.560 being like almost like a little bit feeling like a 1:57:38.600 --> 1:57:41.360 little micromanaged. But I also knew that that was a 1:57:41.400 --> 1:57:43.160 part of the way that they did things over there. 1:57:44.000 --> 1:57:46.320 But the waiting game was I'm not ready for the 1:57:46.360 --> 1:57:48.840 waiting game, So I got busy because I had other 1:57:48.920 --> 1:57:54.160 skills and other things to do. Remember for me, that 1:57:54.280 --> 1:57:59.160 signing at all was kind of on on the on 1:57:59.280 --> 1:58:02.200 a path to anything else. Remember, I wanted to do 1:58:02.720 --> 1:58:05.080 TV and music for TV and film. That's that's that 1:58:05.240 --> 1:58:08.800 was my goal. That was not my final destination, but 1:58:08.880 --> 1:58:11.080 it was. It was a great training ground, and it 1:58:11.200 --> 1:58:13.200 offered me a lot of opportunity, and it offered me 1:58:13.240 --> 1:58:17.200 a lot of access um. So I wasn't so afraid 1:58:17.480 --> 1:58:19.640 when it when it got to be going on three 1:58:19.760 --> 1:58:23.080 years and I'm still waiting on this magic bullet uh 1:58:23.200 --> 1:58:24.840 to say, you know, I don't know that I can 1:58:24.960 --> 1:58:29.320 do this this way. So when I did hear the 1:58:29.440 --> 1:58:33.160 song that they chose that they felt was like, you know, 1:58:33.360 --> 1:58:39.640 the second coming, I was like, really, and radio, particularly 1:58:39.760 --> 1:58:43.800 Black radio, was like, oh, we were not expecting this 1:58:43.960 --> 1:58:47.240 from you. Now. Remember I had had like all these 1:58:47.280 --> 1:58:49.680 other albums, So I developed relationships with program directors and 1:58:49.760 --> 1:58:53.240 things like that because the music was consistent in terms 1:58:53.280 --> 1:58:56.520 of whatever they were listening for, and the audience had 1:58:56.520 --> 1:59:00.280 already received what I do based upon what I do. 1:59:01.240 --> 1:59:04.920 So um, this was really a departure and was not 1:59:05.080 --> 1:59:08.920 received very well. And so um, that's when I knew. 1:59:08.960 --> 1:59:10.760 I said, Okay, well it may be time to kind 1:59:10.800 --> 1:59:13.880 of press a pause on this part of it and 1:59:14.040 --> 1:59:17.520 be focused on the used use the time to focus 1:59:17.600 --> 1:59:20.480 on the things that I was on the way too. 1:59:20.560 --> 1:59:23.800 And sort of once they put on the what got sidetracked? 1:59:23.840 --> 1:59:26.920 You know? But the scoring it solf because that's a 1:59:27.080 --> 1:59:29.080 that's a thing where you gotta pump, you gotta pump 1:59:29.160 --> 1:59:31.840 that machine in a whole other way of just trying 1:59:31.880 --> 1:59:35.160 to get in the meeting. Album also just sort of 1:59:35.200 --> 1:59:41.760 like exfusion, yeah, with Ernie and and do google upon. 1:59:41.840 --> 1:59:45.440 So we did, we did, We did too, two CDs 1:59:45.480 --> 1:59:47.960 actually and that and that was always for me. I 1:59:48.040 --> 1:59:51.960 always had a release that I didn't have to feel 1:59:53.160 --> 1:59:56.040 locked in. I think what took soul and takes so 1:59:56.240 --> 2:00:00.600 many of our artists out is that what ever they're doing, 2:00:00.680 --> 2:00:05.840 they reached some barrier or boundary and they don't necessarily 2:00:06.000 --> 2:00:08.480 have a way to punch themselves out of it. And 2:00:08.560 --> 2:00:10.960 it's at the at the at the highest level. In 2:00:11.040 --> 2:00:15.160 the lowest it's like, you know, I mean, I watched 2:00:16.160 --> 2:00:19.400 I watched people who I feel like would have just 2:00:20.480 --> 2:00:24.080 exploded had they had a way to be able to 2:00:24.960 --> 2:00:27.840 compartmentalize a little bit and go do something else. I was. 2:00:28.320 --> 2:00:32.200 I was hurt when Philip Simon died, you know, and 2:00:32.400 --> 2:00:34.560 you both feeling these were people that Harris to remember 2:00:34.600 --> 2:00:39.600 they're wrested too. I saw, like Stephie Stephanie Mills for 2:00:39.680 --> 2:00:41.120 a while was there and kind of it kind of 2:00:41.200 --> 2:00:44.840 got and I'm like, man, the difference maker for me 2:00:46.040 --> 2:00:50.440 was I think having something else that I love that 2:00:50.520 --> 2:00:53.880 didn't take me away from the music and allowed me 2:00:53.960 --> 2:00:58.200 to have another platform and another outlet. And I think 2:00:58.360 --> 2:01:03.080 that that's one of the other um contributors to me 2:01:03.200 --> 2:01:08.160 being involved so deeply in education now because you want 2:01:08.200 --> 2:01:12.000 to do this thing and you want to have every 2:01:12.080 --> 2:01:14.840 option open to you of how you're gonna get there 2:01:14.840 --> 2:01:17.240 and how you're gonna do it. You know, you want 2:01:17.760 --> 2:01:20.200 difference paths of window open, window not open, and go 2:01:20.280 --> 2:01:22.600 through the back door, back door, not go through the side, 2:01:22.880 --> 2:01:25.040 you know, because it's about the music and you have 2:01:25.200 --> 2:01:26.760 something you want to do and you have something you 2:01:26.840 --> 2:01:30.560 want to say and it's important. So you need multiple 2:01:31.680 --> 2:01:34.839 ways to be able to place yourself in that environment. 2:01:35.200 --> 2:01:37.920 And uh, that's what saved I think that's what saved 2:01:37.960 --> 2:01:39.840 my life. So what is your life like now? Like 2:01:39.920 --> 2:01:42.480 what should the average day in the life your kids 2:01:42.960 --> 2:01:48.200 know Russian? Is patrees Russian? Or is it just like 2:01:50.080 --> 2:01:54.640 like my mom's a teacher. Well, my my my my 2:01:54.720 --> 2:01:58.760 son is nineteen, he's almost twenty. He knows now he 2:01:59.000 --> 2:02:02.120 does now becau when other people have told you. But 2:02:02.280 --> 2:02:06.280 he you know, has been around and comes to the 2:02:06.680 --> 2:02:09.200 has come to different things and kind of like connected 2:02:09.240 --> 2:02:13.240 the dots. Oh, it's different. So when she told me 2:02:13.320 --> 2:02:15.160 to take out the trash, it was her telling me 2:02:15.240 --> 2:02:20.520 to do you one son and a daughter, and now 2:02:20.720 --> 2:02:24.920 my daughter is now thirteen, she's just now getting it 2:02:24.960 --> 2:02:28.880 because now she's uh, you know, finding her own music 2:02:29.160 --> 2:02:33.920 and go and she knows a little bit and I 2:02:33.960 --> 2:02:36.000 don't I don't know that they'll do it as a profession. 2:02:36.360 --> 2:02:38.680 But they both played He plays guitar a little bit, 2:02:38.760 --> 2:02:45.160 she plays string bass, so they they kind of get it, 2:02:45.480 --> 2:02:49.680 him more than her. But what about your students, Like 2:02:49.760 --> 2:02:54.680 to your students, Oh yeah, they get it, um and uh, 2:02:55.000 --> 2:02:58.440 you know, teaching at the college level, so so they 2:02:59.160 --> 2:03:00.880 they are you know, they want to get it because 2:03:00.920 --> 2:03:02.840 they want to be there, and so you need to 2:03:02.920 --> 2:03:04.640 know who you How do you manage that though? But 2:03:04.760 --> 2:03:06.680 the can I meet you after class? Can I when 2:03:06.760 --> 2:03:08.360 I can have any of your time? Can I? Like, 2:03:08.480 --> 2:03:11.000 I'm sure you get a lot of those requests. But 2:03:11.120 --> 2:03:15.760 the curriculum, especially the curriculum at the Popular Music program 2:03:15.840 --> 2:03:20.440 at USC, I helped. I helped to sort of coordinate, um, 2:03:21.280 --> 2:03:23.120 those things that were important. So they get a lot 2:03:23.200 --> 2:03:25.320 of information. And then I'm still active, you know, as 2:03:25.360 --> 2:03:28.040 a teacher, So they get a lot of information all 2:03:28.080 --> 2:03:30.920 the time, and and from not just me, but from 2:03:30.960 --> 2:03:34.520 other you know, people who have a lot of the 2:03:35.360 --> 2:03:40.240 uh same kind of information who came up wanting to 2:03:40.280 --> 2:03:42.600 be able to play anything and want to do it 2:03:42.760 --> 2:03:44.280 just I just want to be in it. I just 2:03:44.360 --> 2:03:45.880 want to do it, so I better get really good 2:03:46.520 --> 2:03:48.200 at a lot of stuff. Have you been involved in 2:03:48.280 --> 2:03:51.560 any of advocating of music education like nation wide? Because 2:03:51.560 --> 2:03:53.040 you just seem like the perfect person that would do 2:03:53.120 --> 2:03:54.440 some things like that. Man, And I know that you 2:03:54.520 --> 2:03:58.200 work with the Grammys that I will from the standpoint 2:03:58.200 --> 2:04:00.160 of teaching. I do that, And then I'm also at 2:04:00.440 --> 2:04:03.680 Berkeley College Music as their ambassador for artistry in education, 2:04:04.200 --> 2:04:07.440 so sometimes and I've worked with Grammy in the schools 2:04:07.440 --> 2:04:09.440 and I've worked at the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz. 2:04:09.480 --> 2:04:14.320 So I've had different platforms and different been asked to 2:04:14.440 --> 2:04:19.160 do different kinds of things. But in terms of us 2:04:19.560 --> 2:04:23.200 having a certain kind of generational advocate for the kind 2:04:23.240 --> 2:04:25.520 of thing you're talking about on a broader base, I 2:04:25.600 --> 2:04:28.360 don't know that I've ever been asked to do anything 2:04:28.440 --> 2:04:30.920 like that on a consistent basis. I'll just see you 2:04:31.000 --> 2:04:34.680 at the White House, but now maybe not this White House. 2:04:40.240 --> 2:04:46.160 That's not rushing over that. I don't no collusion, no 2:04:46.280 --> 2:04:51.560 collusion for Donald Trump. Dr Russian. We really thank you 2:04:51.720 --> 2:04:55.000 for thank you, Thank you. I was so happy. You 2:04:55.040 --> 2:04:57.840 don't understand when I when I sent you the text 2:04:57.880 --> 2:05:11.560 message and I saw the three dots, that is awesome. 2:05:12.240 --> 2:05:14.880 Thank you guys for asking them. Congratulations. You know, you 2:05:14.960 --> 2:05:18.560 guys do to have an open platform to be able 2:05:18.600 --> 2:05:21.760 to speak truth and really be able to get inside 2:05:21.840 --> 2:05:24.720 of our people's heads and what's going on and talk 2:05:24.720 --> 2:05:27.880 about it. It's really important that communication is so so key. 2:05:28.200 --> 2:05:32.160 It's been our survival. And so he said the same thing, 2:05:32.280 --> 2:05:35.240 just like this is one of the first time, like 2:05:35.400 --> 2:05:37.920 the older generation and the younger generation, we don't really 2:05:37.960 --> 2:05:40.600 get the dialogue like that, and you know, just we 2:05:40.720 --> 2:05:43.480 just thank you for being over like doing this show. 2:05:43.560 --> 2:05:45.920 It's like a life lesson after life lessons for me. 2:05:46.040 --> 2:05:49.280 So it's beautiful. Well, it's an important thing because, like 2:05:49.360 --> 2:05:51.880 I said, by I don't want to go so far 2:05:52.000 --> 2:05:55.640 to say by design, but by design. Um. You know, 2:05:55.680 --> 2:05:58.440 as people become successful, you know you're pulled away as 2:05:58.440 --> 2:06:02.240 opposed to being able to gather and when you have 2:06:02.400 --> 2:06:05.200 the opportunity to be able to, you know, get out 2:06:05.320 --> 2:06:08.160 and do some things. The information that you get and 2:06:08.240 --> 2:06:11.200 the understanding that you get from being able to absorb 2:06:11.400 --> 2:06:13.680 other kinds of things and be other places and meet 2:06:13.720 --> 2:06:16.880 other people. That's important stuff to be able to bring 2:06:16.960 --> 2:06:20.919 back so people's horizons can be broadened. So please continue 2:06:20.960 --> 2:06:22.240 to do what you're doing and know that you have 2:06:22.360 --> 2:06:25.320 a thousand percent of my support. Manscious. Thank you. As 2:06:25.360 --> 2:06:29.040 a new California resident, just meeting somebody who has a 2:06:29.120 --> 2:06:31.560 history of blackness and it's still very conscious and deep 2:06:31.560 --> 2:06:32.960 in it, because you know, as the East Coast person, 2:06:33.000 --> 2:06:37.320 you come here, you're like, well, I'm just soaking it 2:06:37.400 --> 2:06:39.480 and I'm gonna ask you some recommendations later for all 2:06:39.560 --> 2:06:53.480 kinds of black things. Got black Well, ladies and gentlemen 2:06:53.560 --> 2:07:01.280 on behalf of Team Supreme. Fine, take a little It's like, uh, sugar, Steve, Okay, sugar, Yeah, 2:07:01.360 --> 2:07:08.760 he salty Steve. I'm a little under the weather. But 2:07:09.560 --> 2:07:15.400 I did have, um, I know that you were saying, well, 2:07:15.520 --> 2:07:19.520 you know, go ahead. I was just curious out of 2:07:19.560 --> 2:07:21.840 the I know you said that East Coast jazz people 2:07:21.840 --> 2:07:23.840 would come out here, and you see them too, But 2:07:23.960 --> 2:07:27.680 at the West Coast jazz seen in the sixties and seventies, 2:07:27.760 --> 2:07:31.440 who were your favorite piano players or just jazz artists 2:07:31.480 --> 2:07:35.720 from from out here, from out here, Well, I'm gonna 2:07:35.840 --> 2:07:39.360 have to broaden our coast a little bit to just 2:07:39.440 --> 2:07:42.880 do the west of the Mississippi side. So Joe samples 2:07:42.920 --> 2:07:45.240 from Houston. It's not right here in l A. But 2:07:45.280 --> 2:07:47.280 he was here a lot because they did someone studio 2:07:47.320 --> 2:07:51.000 work here, so you know, he was He became sort 2:07:51.040 --> 2:07:54.240 of again another person that had that kind of mentoring 2:07:54.400 --> 2:08:00.560 attitude and was helpful. Um, let me see, let me see. 2:08:00.600 --> 2:08:02.800 And then you know, some of my peer group, Billie 2:08:02.880 --> 2:08:06.840 Child is amazing, Todd Cochrane amazing, and we're not that 2:08:07.040 --> 2:08:10.440 far in age. But we listened to a lot of 2:08:10.520 --> 2:08:13.040 the same people and listened to each other. Haven't haven't 2:08:13.040 --> 2:08:15.000 grown up in l A? Like what we what chads 2:08:15.040 --> 2:08:18.040 are your parents listening to? People? They listened to Harold 2:08:18.080 --> 2:08:21.000 Land and Blue Mitchell. They were out here. Um a 2:08:21.120 --> 2:08:24.320 lot to um. Joe Henderson lived up in the Bay Area, 2:08:24.360 --> 2:08:26.600 so we heard a lot of that. I heard a 2:08:26.640 --> 2:08:31.080 lot of that. Um brew Beck was here. Yeah. I 2:08:31.240 --> 2:08:33.880 heard a lot of his stuff too, not quite as much, um, 2:08:34.320 --> 2:08:36.640 you know, the really well known stuff. But I didn't 2:08:36.640 --> 2:08:40.080 really get into a lot of you know, his other 2:08:40.160 --> 2:08:43.560 music other than the stuff that most people knew, you know, UM, 2:08:44.040 --> 2:08:45.920 what about like cal Jad he was on a fantashy 2:08:46.000 --> 2:08:48.080 oh yeah, cal Jater was on a fantasy he had 2:08:48.400 --> 2:08:51.000 one of his records was it was read I had 2:08:51.080 --> 2:09:01.560 this moment moment. Yeah, Claire Fisher. You mentioned Claire Fisher earlier. Yes, yes, Um, 2:09:03.320 --> 2:09:07.120 do you have any say whatsoever about the reissues of 2:09:07.240 --> 2:09:11.280 your records or anything like, yeah, we can't find find something. 2:09:11.520 --> 2:09:13.400 None of the stuff on streaming, like none of the 2:09:15.080 --> 2:09:19.839 I'll give you. I'll give you a scoop the masters. 2:09:19.960 --> 2:09:24.000 Now recently, just recently, I went to a German company. 2:09:25.440 --> 2:09:28.760 I'm trying to remember that wonder Bird has that son 2:09:30.240 --> 2:09:35.480 they have something. I was like, that's a label, okay, 2:09:35.640 --> 2:09:42.760 K seven Sea. They just acquired a lot of stuff 2:09:42.880 --> 2:09:48.920 from the Warners catalog under which this stuff was. Um. 2:09:50.240 --> 2:09:53.320 So those will be ways you can investigate and then 2:09:53.360 --> 2:09:55.480 you know, if you still can't find something, you can come. 2:09:55.720 --> 2:10:05.800 We gotta leave. You still needs to alight anyway, y'all 2:10:05.880 --> 2:10:10.760 taking stems, y'all will be having to take the track date. 2:10:14.080 --> 2:10:18.120 Plea stem your stuff up, please please? Alright, so on 2:10:18.320 --> 2:10:22.839 behalf of anything else, Steve, No, thank you? All right. Actually, 2:10:22.920 --> 2:10:25.280 you know, Steve, I'm with you now that I totally 2:10:25.320 --> 2:10:32.840 forgot about Hollywood. Listen I'm talking about I know, I know. 2:10:33.040 --> 2:10:35.320 I'm just saying now. I wish we could do role 2:10:35.360 --> 2:10:38.080 Call again because I totally forgot about Hollywood Shuffle and 2:10:38.080 --> 2:10:51.520 I would have made a Timmy reference the next ground 2:10:52.560 --> 2:10:58.640 jaredy Kurve, you know all those people in that movie, 2:10:58.680 --> 2:11:02.400 I saw it happening, keenan Ill. All these people are 2:11:02.440 --> 2:11:07.320 really blown up. So again, community, community, beautiful. Let's hear 2:11:07.360 --> 2:11:09.680 from the community to the people, because the people got 2:11:09.720 --> 2:11:14.080 the power. I'm sorry here, sorry, and that's how we'll 2:11:14.080 --> 2:11:21.760 setting off the community station. Thank you very much, y'all good. 2:11:28.840 --> 2:11:31.680 Of course. Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. 2:11:32.160 --> 2:11:35.480 This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 2:11:43.000 --> 2:11:45.280 For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I 2:11:45.400 --> 2:11:48.680 Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 2:11:48.720 --> 2:11:49.520 your favorite shows.