Speaker 1: Innovating through technology is a form of survival. You know,
Speaker 1: to see and be seen to build community.
Speaker 2: There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 3: As a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridge
Speaker 3: Todd and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 3: One of the biggest questions that I'm grappling with these
Speaker 3: days when it comes to social media is where are
Speaker 3: we all going next? The entire social media landscape is shifted.
Speaker 3: Facebook feels less and less relevant by the day. I mean,
Speaker 3: is anybody even still on threads? And Twitter is well Twitter?
Speaker 3: When I scroll Twitter these days, it's clear just how
Speaker 3: much these platforms are not built for us with us
Speaker 3: in mind. It honestly just does not feel good to
Speaker 3: show up there anymore. And as Twitter's policies get more
Speaker 3: and more hostile, more and more people like me are
Speaker 3: jumping ship. And in this time where we're all searching
Speaker 3: for what's next, a black owned alternative that tries to
Speaker 3: put more power in the hands of the people who
Speaker 3: use their platform might just be the next big thing.
Speaker 3: Enter spill Spill is a meme forward, highly visual social
Speaker 3: media platform where users post spills. As in spilling, the team,
Speaker 3: the team behind SPILL is clear that they want it
Speaker 3: to be a place where black and brown folks and
Speaker 3: other traditionally marginalized identities can feel safe showing up. But
Speaker 3: the platform is for everybody, and for Kenya Parum, building
Speaker 3: better and safer technologies is a kind of community love language.
Speaker 1: My name is Kenya Parum and I serve as the
Speaker 1: global vice president for Community and Partnerships at SPILL.
Speaker 3: For Kenya, technology is just another and a long career
Speaker 3: of advocating for traditionally marginalized communities. So I'm very excited
Speaker 3: about SPILL. I'm very excited to talk about SPILL, But
Speaker 3: if it's okay, I would love to start with you, Kennya, like,
Speaker 3: how did you get your start in technology?
Speaker 2: What brings you to this work?
Speaker 1: Well, I did a really non traditional pathway to becoming
Speaker 1: a tech executive. I started off in the world of
Speaker 1: electoral politics and was an entrepreneur for the better part
Speaker 1: of a decade. I've always worked at the intersection of
Speaker 1: my purpose and my passions, and so that has meant
Speaker 1: advocating on behalf of marginalized communities, whether in the world
Speaker 1: of civic engagement or then transitioning into entertainment and film.
Speaker 1: I've always been passionate about narratives and the impact that
Speaker 1: is created from narratives, and so joined the Spill team
Speaker 1: at the top of this year and it's been a
Speaker 1: wild ride ever since.
Speaker 3: Do you see the work with you know, being a
Speaker 3: tech executive. Do you see that work as overlapping with
Speaker 3: your interest in narratives and stories, particularly for marginalized communities.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. The role of just a tech executive,
Speaker 1: right is super broad.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: What I do see mad overlap in is the skill
Speaker 1: set required to be successful at building community, particularly on
Speaker 1: behalf of communities that are underrepresented and underserved. So much
Speaker 1: to my surprise and affirmation, my non traditional pathway was
Speaker 1: recognized by the folks who brought me on to this team.
Speaker 1: And because you know, imposter syndrome is real, girlfriend, And
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I didn't know if, if you know,
Speaker 1: the route that I took to getting to this place
Speaker 1: would be seen as qualified to be in a role
Speaker 1: like this. But what I do know is that, you know,
Speaker 1: advocating on behalf of communities that are in need, you know,
Speaker 1: making sure that we redirect resources to the folks who
Speaker 1: into the communities who stand to benefit the most from
Speaker 1: receiving those things. Looks like politics, it looks like community building,
Speaker 1: it looks like advocacy, it looks like engagement, and so,
Speaker 1: you know, just tremendously grateful. I pinched myself every single day.
Speaker 3: Well, I would love to dig into that because you
Speaker 3: mentioned imposter syndrome, and I obviously don't need to tell
Speaker 3: you that there are not a lot of tech executives
Speaker 3: that look like us. Did you ever see yourself being
Speaker 3: somebody who was like that, did have the title of
Speaker 3: global tech executive?
Speaker 2: And did you ever think that, like I.
Speaker 3: Assume you don't have like a like you're not like
Speaker 3: an engineer. I feel like oftentimes people think that if
Speaker 3: you don't have some specific hard tech background, you don't
Speaker 3: really get to take up space in conversations about technology.
Speaker 1: That's so it's so real. I mean, yeah, I've always
Speaker 1: felt like I was put on this earth to do
Speaker 1: big things thanks to my parents, doctor Thomas parm and
Speaker 1: Devita Hopkins farm. I am a kid who has had
Speaker 1: a battery in her back and a tank fuel full
Speaker 1: of positivity fuel my entire life thanks to them. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I've always felt, you know, mission driven technology
Speaker 1: is all around us. Right, we're surrounded by technology, you know,
Speaker 1: whether that's you know, any tool that we use to
Speaker 1: advance insert blank here, right is a form of tech. Right,
Speaker 1: language and lexicon is technology. Fashion is technology. You know, uh, culture, Right, tech,
Speaker 1: tech is culture, and so you know, uh, I think
Speaker 1: I think it's important to always acknowledge that, you know,
Speaker 1: tech is not just you know, connecting wires and tubes
Speaker 1: and infrastructure at all times. Right, tech is expansive and
Speaker 1: whenever we're building new worlds and and charting new courses, right,
Speaker 1: you need a squad full of people who know how
Speaker 1: to traverse uncharted terrain. And you know, I love my engineers,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But they're great at what
Speaker 1: they do, and we're great at what we do, and
Speaker 1: together we make an amazing team.
Speaker 2: So that's such a good way to put it.
Speaker 3: And that's sort of the framework that we come to
Speaker 3: to around technology on this podcast, where it's not just
Speaker 3: it's not just coding and engineering, it's also culture. It's
Speaker 3: also media. Like everything comes down to tech. It touches
Speaker 3: every aspect of how we show up to the world.
Speaker 3: And I don't want to you know, smarch any of
Speaker 3: your competitor platforms. But I think we see what happens
Speaker 3: when there's not investments made in the community building or
Speaker 3: the culture building or the world building.
Speaker 2: And it's just the engineering aspect.
Speaker 3: I think we can see where sometimes that isn't doesn't
Speaker 3: really work out so great for the people who are
Speaker 3: using the platforms.
Speaker 1: Listen, I mean, I'm only here to talk about spill, right,
Speaker 1: not gonna get me there, girl, I'm only here to
Speaker 1: talk about spill. But what I what I will say
Speaker 1: about that is, you know, we are we are in
Speaker 1: a really interesting time right now where having computers in
Speaker 1: our hands right empowers us to do so so so much.
Speaker 1: And you know, we all hear this, this this large
Speaker 1: scale you know, call to action for more black and
Speaker 1: brown folks and marginalized folks and queer folks to get
Speaker 1: involved in tech right in STEM and in Steam. But
Speaker 1: now that I'm in this seat like and living it,
Speaker 1: I completely understand how revolutionary it is to be able
Speaker 1: to take part in building a world that has an
Speaker 1: opportunity to function better, more holistically, healthier for people who
Speaker 1: look like us differently than the I r L. Right,
Speaker 1: the r L can do things that the I r
Speaker 1: L can't do. And I, as a black woman, love
Speaker 1: that and arrive in my seat to do my work
Speaker 1: every day with a sense of excitement and vigor knowing
Speaker 1: that I'm not just creating this world for me, but
Speaker 1: for everybody else, and doing it with some badass teammates
Speaker 1: who I admire. And you know, what a joy you know.
Speaker 1: And tech also gives us an opportunity to look at,
Speaker 1: you know, the brilliance of younger generations that are out
Speaker 1: there innovating in real time, not because they desire to
Speaker 1: just go viral, right, but because innovating through technology is
Speaker 1: a form of survival, you know, to see and be
Speaker 1: seen to build community, right, And that's what we're really
Speaker 1: focused on at Spill.
Speaker 3: The story of traditionally marginalized people has always been a
Speaker 3: story rooted in resilience. We show up in these spaces
Speaker 3: that are not always built with us in mind, and
Speaker 3: we innovate. We take the lemons we're given and make
Speaker 3: lemonade in the form of art, building, movements and connections
Speaker 3: and spill it's also a story rooted in resilience, in
Speaker 3: taking a situation that seems tough and turning it into
Speaker 3: an opportunity to build something instead Spill starts with an
Speaker 3: origin story that might be familiar to a lot of
Speaker 3: folks and technology right now, a layoff. Alfonso Terrell was
Speaker 3: working at Twitter a year ago when there was a
Speaker 3: tumultuous change in leadership.
Speaker 1: Well it was one November fourth night, twenty twenty two. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. He's probably laughing. He's gonna laugh when
Speaker 1: he sees me start this off like that. Alfonso Terrell
Speaker 1: are amazing CEO, outgoing global head of Social and Editorial
Speaker 1: for Twitter. Was a part of the first round of
Speaker 1: layoffs when that other person fired him on November fourth,
Speaker 1: and he placed a phone call to our co founder
Speaker 1: Davares Brown, who's arguably one of the foremost technologists of
Speaker 1: our generation. And they had both met on their first
Speaker 1: day at Twitter some time ago, and you know, fonsvict
Speaker 1: of the phone to devirus and said, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: basically I've been laid off and it's time to build.
Speaker 1: And that's when they started. So everything you see from
Speaker 1: Spill is, you know, from a phone call that was
Speaker 1: placed not even a year ago, which is incredible.
Speaker 3: So the story of Spill then is really a story
Speaker 3: about us, like doing what we always do, taking situations
Speaker 3: or spaces that are kind of hostile to us and.
Speaker 2: Making lemonade out of those lemons.
Speaker 3: It really takes having that larger vision to see how
Speaker 3: those tough moments could actually be used to create something bigger.
Speaker 1: Listen, you know, yes, yes, and you know the story
Speaker 1: of spill is a story of preparedness meets opportunity one
Speaker 1: thousand percent right. We've experienced a couple of different waves
Speaker 1: of growth along the way, arguably before the technology would
Speaker 1: say that we were prepared for it, right, but our team,
Speaker 1: you know, did our best to kind of meet the
Speaker 1: needs that were exposed by you know, some of the
Speaker 1: failures from the those other apps.
Speaker 2: You're being so like charitable.
Speaker 1: And so we was some honey, I told you I
Speaker 1: started off with politics. Okay, so you know we but
Speaker 1: we you know, preparedness meets opportunity. That's that's how we
Speaker 1: got to this place, right and doing it afreate doing it,
Speaker 1: scared building it anyway, trusting going off of what you know.
Speaker 1: You know, Fons always says you are more right than
Speaker 1: you think you are right. You're more more right than
Speaker 1: you even know in terms of the hypotheses and the
Speaker 1: theories around why this is the time to center us,
Speaker 1: you know, And we had a lot of different proof
Speaker 1: points that told us that along the way, I mean,
Speaker 1: first wait list sign up, first bill went up in
Speaker 1: December of twenty twenty two, twenty five thousand sign ups
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours, fifty thousand by the end of
Speaker 1: the week, you know, ore waitless. Now for iPhone and Android,
Speaker 1: you know, it's north of five hundred thousand people we've got.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't give out any other numbers than that,
Speaker 1: but I will just say that we got a healthy
Speaker 1: amount of people on this beta iPhone only currently app
Speaker 1: and you know, are hitting numbers that we thought we
Speaker 1: would be hitting, you know, next year. And so again
Speaker 1: it's just continued validation of our thesis, which is that
Speaker 1: if you build an ecosystem that centers the most marginalized,
Speaker 1: the people who drive culture, who advance culture forward but
Speaker 1: unfortunately receive the line share of hate, you know, it
Speaker 1: creates a healthier ecosystem for everybody. Right, If we center ourselves,
Speaker 1: it's not about excluding everybody else. It's just saying we're
Speaker 1: being demonstrative about who we're building this platform for, about
Speaker 1: where these opportunities are going to be centered. And we
Speaker 1: believe that it creates a better opportunity in a healthier
Speaker 1: social ecosystem for everybody. And that really could be modeled
Speaker 1: throughout the entire world, right, it really could.
Speaker 3: What do you think our tech landscape would be like
Speaker 3: if that were a given? If when people were making
Speaker 3: platforms they started out trying to figure out how to
Speaker 3: make sure that the most marginalized, but also the people
Speaker 3: who are creating the culture on their platforms are really
Speaker 3: the ones that they are centering, that they are listening to,
Speaker 3: that they are amplifying.
Speaker 1: It would look exactly like spill. That's exactly what it
Speaker 1: would look like. It would be the spill averse times four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
Speaker 1: And you know what, we got it right. That's why
Speaker 1: we're here, and that's why we're doing this. And are
Speaker 1: there are validation points outside of like it's not just
Speaker 1: because of some moral issue, right, or ethical issue of
Speaker 1: why we need to do this. It actually makes dollars
Speaker 1: in cents. Right, So, if we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: culture drivers, people who advance culture, people who create content
Speaker 1: that we all share virally across the internet, right, Goldman
Speaker 1: Sachs released a report talking about the creator economy not
Speaker 1: too long ago, and said that it's set to approach
Speaker 1: half a trillion dollars by twenty twenty seven, which is
Speaker 1: going to double in size over the next five years.
Speaker 1: Right right now, we're at you know, two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty billion today, they're expecting it's going to be around
Speaker 1: four hundred and eighty billion dollars.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: That's a creator economy, right, And that's content that's created
Speaker 1: by underserved groups and people, and we know that it
Speaker 1: outperforms other content by industry benchmarks. But unfortunately, these content
Speaker 1: creators don't have safe spaces to show up and be
Speaker 1: authentically themselves or have the proper tools or compensation models
Speaker 1: to monetize for their audiences. And then on conversely, right,
Speaker 1: we see big brands painting street you know, signs and
Speaker 1: rename placards and making these big pledges to spend ad
Speaker 1: dollars with multicultural vendors, and they're trying to meet their
Speaker 1: commitments and struggling to do so right and creating these
Speaker 1: creator funds that don't end up getting spent right. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, we find ourselves at a time right now
Speaker 1: where the convergence of these things are happening right, we
Speaker 1: have a robust creator economy that is thriving. We've got
Speaker 1: brands that are struggling for a lot of reasons to
Speaker 1: meet their stated commitments, right, and then we have a
Speaker 1: group of bold individuals who said we're going to build
Speaker 1: this and and meet us where we are. And I
Speaker 1: believe that that has a lot to do with our
Speaker 1: success and why we've got so many folks at the
Speaker 1: table ready to link arms with us to do this work.
Speaker 3: What are some of the ways that Spill is doing
Speaker 3: things differently in service of doing exactly that.
Speaker 1: Well, let me just let me just qualify for the
Speaker 1: people who don't know, Spill is visual conversation that moves
Speaker 1: at the speed of culture and on the app through
Speaker 1: memes and visual media and conversation, we're building a space
Speaker 1: that's brewing with creators who are not just creating culture,
Speaker 1: but also being recognized for the culture that they are creating.
Speaker 1: We are essentially proving that cultural and technical competence can
Speaker 1: be symbiotic. Right, And so that's everything from you know,
Speaker 1: the technology that we're using to keep people safe on
Speaker 1: the platform using large language model AI trained by black
Speaker 1: and queer folks, right, Essentially a more culturally competent version
Speaker 1: of like a chat GBT, which allows again for people
Speaker 1: to show up authentically as their best selves, but also
Speaker 1: keeps you know, folks safe from people who have learned
Speaker 1: how to move around moderation systems and use different language. Right,
Speaker 1: it means that we are elevating the value of the
Speaker 1: content and the culture and what it means to access
Speaker 1: the culture. And so you know, clicks, likes and views
Speaker 1: and the spilloverse are valued much higher than they are
Speaker 1: on any other platform. Or we have a lot of
Speaker 1: justifications for why that's the case. And then the second,
Speaker 1: the third, the third piece is you know, we are
Speaker 1: really focused on making sure that creators receive proper attribution
Speaker 1: for the heat that they put out there in the world.
Speaker 1: We are so tired of seeing folks dances be stolen
Speaker 1: and our cultural lexicon be reappropriated without folks receiving that
Speaker 1: compensation and so and just attribution, right, you know, just
Speaker 1: give us the cred for the trends that we set
Speaker 1: and if you decide to monetize it makes you the
Speaker 1: person who actually created it is at the front of
Speaker 1: that of that line, right, and that they're at the table.
Speaker 1: So you know, that is just a few of the
Speaker 1: things that we are doing differently. We're basically trying to
Speaker 1: make it as easy as possible for us to do
Speaker 1: what we naturally do, which is to create an express
Speaker 1: us ourselves through multiple forms of mixed media, using pop
Speaker 1: culture references and things that exist in our brains. We
Speaker 1: know our group chatsbeat pop, and I know you are
Speaker 1: part of like five or six ten of them, right.
Speaker 1: Meme culture is a big thing, and so we're just
Speaker 1: trying to create an opportunity for us to do what
Speaker 1: is most natural and authentic to us in a much
Speaker 1: safer environment and via tools that aid in our continued creation.
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break at our back.
Speaker 3: While the labor of black folks generates engagement, not to
Speaker 3: mention money for the people who run online platforms, all
Speaker 3: too often we aren't seeing any of the cash. Remember
Speaker 3: Peaches Monroe, she created the expression on fleek on social
Speaker 3: media and didn't see a dime from it, even after
Speaker 3: it was adopted or taken by everyone from Rby's to
Speaker 3: Bath and body Works. Law professor kJ Green argues that
Speaker 3: both online and offline, black public creativity has always been
Speaker 3: rendered public domain in ways that can leave black creators
Speaker 3: getting screwed. Some platforms like TikTok have tried to mitigate
Speaker 3: this by establishing creator funds meant to pay people out
Speaker 3: who drive engagement on social media platforms, but Kenny has
Speaker 3: says spill is doing things differently by building the platform
Speaker 3: with an eye toward crediting and compensating creators fairly from
Speaker 3: the start. Something that you mentioned that I think is
Speaker 3: so important that I want to come back to because
Speaker 3: it comes up a lot on the show is this
Speaker 3: idea of what happens when marginalized creators make something on
Speaker 3: a platform and then it just gets taken and without
Speaker 3: credit or attribution or compensation. And we've actually looked into
Speaker 3: some of the academic research around this, where it seems
Speaker 3: to suggest that when something is created on the Internet
Speaker 3: by a black person, there is a dominant understanding that
Speaker 3: it quote kind of belongs to everyone, and like who
Speaker 3: cares who created it, who cares who gets credit? It's
Speaker 3: the Internet, it doesn't matter. But then when those same
Speaker 3: things are created by non black creators, they are seen
Speaker 3: as much less sort of communal. And it's very interesting
Speaker 3: to me how platforms can kind of aid to this
Speaker 3: lack of equality around who gets ownership online. It may
Speaker 3: sound like we're just complaining, like, oh, I want my
Speaker 3: attention or I want my credit, but this really matters,
Speaker 3: Like people have really seen meaningful come ups off of
Speaker 3: creating something on the Internet, and the way that our
Speaker 3: communities are just sort of shut out of that oftentimes
Speaker 3: and it's seen as just okay, really doesn't sit right
Speaker 3: with me. And I've never really thought about the way
Speaker 3: that platforms themselves, the way these platforms are designed, can
Speaker 3: actually contribute to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's deep, and I mean, we gotta listen. We
Speaker 1: can't act like this framework doesn't already exist. We talk
Speaker 1: about intellectual property all the time. Right, there was a
Speaker 1: time in our history when black folks in America held
Speaker 1: the most number of trademarks and patents than anybody any
Speaker 1: other ethnic demographic. Right, Like, we we know what this means. Right,
Speaker 1: there is historical precedent for what happens when we own
Speaker 1: the things that we put forward. So you know, in
Speaker 1: many ways, you got to know where we've been to
Speaker 1: know where we're going right and to understand how we
Speaker 1: got to where we are right now. And so much
Speaker 1: like we saw in the music industry in the nineties
Speaker 1: with hip hop, and you know, a very clear transition
Speaker 1: of ownership. You know, when these brands like you know,
Speaker 1: Comb's Global before was Comb's Global, right bad Boy, you know,
Speaker 1: started to emerge, right, and you know, folks started to
Speaker 1: run their own record labels and and get into the
Speaker 1: distribution game. And you know, we saw a shift in
Speaker 1: what happened to music, what happened to creativity. You can
Speaker 1: put this moment in time for social and what Spill
Speaker 1: is doing akin to that, this is the first time
Speaker 1: that we've really had, you know, spaces like this and
Speaker 1: an opportunity like this, and we're ready to capitalize on it.
Speaker 3: That's I would have never put that together, but I
Speaker 3: think you're right. And I think that the proof of
Speaker 3: concept when Spill was first coming together that it's time.
Speaker 3: I think people are ready to acknowledge that it is
Speaker 3: the most marginalized folks who are the ones who make
Speaker 3: social media platforms what they are, and that you know,
Speaker 3: there are plenty of platforms. If it wasn't for marginalized people,
Speaker 3: they wouldn't be what they were, like, they wouldn't be
Speaker 3: fun places where people kept showing up.
Speaker 1: Bridget be clear though, right like and I have to
Speaker 1: check myself on this all the time. You know, that
Speaker 1: little that little word global in my title, text me
Speaker 1: every time because the don't let the American domestic minority
Speaker 1: lexicon fool you bridge it like together we are the
Speaker 1: global majority. And the truth is that by twenty thirty,
Speaker 1: America is going to be more brown than it is not.
Speaker 1: And so you know, we are seeking in my personal
Speaker 1: goals for that the creators on Spill to essentially become
Speaker 1: their own media companies.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: I think this is the way that we jump and
Speaker 1: expand our cultural influence and monetization opportunities outside of just
Speaker 1: one time creator and affiliate program models, right and really
Speaker 1: start talking about how do we build continue and sustaining
Speaker 1: ecosystems for what we already do naturally. Right, it's time
Speaker 1: and Spill is here to bridge that gap.
Speaker 3: Wow, that is a far cry from some other platforms
Speaker 3: where they you know, people use the word users and
Speaker 3: it's like very clear that these other places are just
Speaker 3: trying to mine you for what you have and.
Speaker 2: Take whatever whatever you have from you.
Speaker 3: And it's like a completely it feels like a flip
Speaker 3: of the script to say, actually, we want the folks
Speaker 3: who show up to our platform to get something out
Speaker 3: of it, to be building something out of it, to
Speaker 3: be compensated, to be credited, all of that. We want
Speaker 3: that to be baked into the experience of showing up
Speaker 3: on spill.
Speaker 2: It seems very different.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 3: Back when audio only social media platform Clubhouse was all
Speaker 3: the rage in twenty twenty, its creators were pretty open
Speaker 3: about the fact that one of the ways they got
Speaker 3: so big was through intentionally courting black influencers and celebrities,
Speaker 3: and it worked. Clubhouse was valued at one billion dollars
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one and over four billion dollars today.
Speaker 3: But after welcoming black voices to the platform to build
Speaker 3: it up, it kind of felt like the powers that
Speaker 3: be did it actually do anything to make the experience
Speaker 3: of being there actually feel safe or good for us.
Speaker 3: Racist and misogynist to harassment was rampant, and it never
Speaker 3: really felt like Clubhouse did anything to address it. It
Speaker 3: really felt like Clubhouse built their name off of black
Speaker 3: folks showing up there and then basically abandoned us. I
Speaker 3: remember it clearly out of time when we were all
Speaker 3: stuck in our houses craving much needed connection.
Speaker 2: It's done so one.
Speaker 3: Question I have is that I think a lot of people,
Speaker 3: myself included, have felt kind of burnt by platforms in
Speaker 3: the past, where you know, I'm thinking of the experience
Speaker 3: of Clubhouse when we were all, you know, quarantining in
Speaker 3: the early days of the pandemic, where it felt like
Speaker 3: a platform that was kind of centering black voices and
Speaker 3: black folks, and then when it maybe hit a certain
Speaker 3: peak that seemed to be all but abandoned. And so
Speaker 3: for folks who maybe feel like they've been burned in
Speaker 3: the past by that dynamic and platforms, what do you
Speaker 3: say to those folks about joining spill is some Is
Speaker 3: that a dynamic that you're familiar with? And what would
Speaker 3: you say to somebody who who was worried about that
Speaker 3: showing up to a new platform?
Speaker 1: Girl From personal experience, I have been you know, taken
Speaker 1: advantage of in influencer programs. I have been taken for granted.
Speaker 1: I know what it feels like, I know what it
Speaker 1: looks like. I think that's what also informs my position
Speaker 1: and the position of you know, my colleagues and teammates
Speaker 1: with spill right, our leadership looks like me and you.
Speaker 1: That's not going to change you know, our team is
Speaker 1: reflective of the teams that we are centering with this
Speaker 1: app in every way, and that's not going to change.
Speaker 1: Our terms of service in our community guidelines are super
Speaker 1: clear and as we grow, they're only going to get
Speaker 1: more and more refined. And so you know, I'd invite
Speaker 1: everybody to look at what we are saying so that
Speaker 1: we say what we mean and mean what we say
Speaker 1: and hold us accountable to that. It's an invitation for
Speaker 1: those many reasons I can say that I can't imagine
Speaker 1: a world where you know, anything like that happens. Spill
Speaker 1: is a company h that is founded on and centered
Speaker 1: around these particular principles to make sure that marginalized communities
Speaker 1: and creators receive proper attribution, to make sure that brands
Speaker 1: know how to step to us correctly, and if they
Speaker 1: need some help, let us, you know, bring them to
Speaker 1: the table and make sure that they that they know
Speaker 1: you know how to come correct and you know, to
Speaker 1: make sure that we are treating this group of taste
Speaker 1: makers as the stakeholders that we are. So that's not
Speaker 1: going to happen. But you know, the best thing that
Speaker 1: I can say is come along for the ride and
Speaker 1: continue to hold us accountable, and we'll show.
Speaker 3: You what When folks show up to spill, what are
Speaker 3: you hoping? It feels like? Like what's the vibe that
Speaker 3: y'all are trying to curate for the platform?
Speaker 1: There was a creator cool Urban Hippie who posted a
Speaker 1: picture of the the Great Migration photo who said, this
Speaker 1: is what spill feels like right now. Uh Phil Lewis
Speaker 1: posted an image of the rug Rats uh as as
Speaker 1: Moses leading folks across the sea. keV on stage posted
Speaker 1: that it feels like a you know, a huge cookout
Speaker 1: and family reunion and it's bustin'. It really is like that.
Speaker 1: Uh So, you know, I want folks to feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're walking into your you know, cousins backyard
Speaker 1: party where you know, you know people and you're ready
Speaker 1: to meet new people that you don't know, and everybody
Speaker 1: feels like family after the first thirty seconds, and you know,
Speaker 1: by the time you've walked through the threshold, you've got
Speaker 1: a plate in one hand and a sip in the
Speaker 1: other and the DJ is you know, got you mobbing,
Speaker 1: and that's it. You know, that's what we wanted to
Speaker 1: feel like. And you know, the feedback that we've gotten
Speaker 1: thus far is that you know, mission accomplished.
Speaker 4: More.
Speaker 3: After a quick break, let's get right back into it.
Speaker 3: It's interesting to me that the images that people used
Speaker 3: are like the Great Migration or leading someone. It does
Speaker 3: feel like we were in this moment where every time
Speaker 3: I had an interview, we're talking to somebody about platforms,
Speaker 3: it would be like, where are we all going next?
Speaker 2: Like, what's the next platform?
Speaker 3: What does it feel like to be launching a place
Speaker 3: that people are saying like, might feel a little better,
Speaker 3: might feel a little more fun, might remind you what,
Speaker 3: like what brought us to platforms in the first place?
Speaker 3: In a moment where everybody is searching, what does it
Speaker 3: feel like to have a plat to be running a
Speaker 3: platform like that?
Speaker 1: A tremendous amount of pressure and responsibility to get it
Speaker 1: right because it's personal for me, right, this isn't just
Speaker 1: a job. This is arguably the next sus of my
Speaker 1: life's work. And many of my colleagues can say the
Speaker 1: same thing. Another reason why you know this will always
Speaker 1: be for us, by us. Everyone is welcome who is
Speaker 1: down with our mission. Let me be clear, right, spill
Speaker 1: is not at all you know about gatekeeping or excluding
Speaker 1: those who are aligned with our mission. Doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you look like us or not, right, but you know,
Speaker 1: we are just, you know, very demonstrative about what we
Speaker 1: stand for, and if you're aligned with that, then cool.
Speaker 1: But it's personal for me and for my colleagues, and
Speaker 1: so I know we all feel a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: just a desire to get it right. We feel very
Speaker 1: connected to the outcomes that we are project are going
Speaker 1: to come from this endeavor and very much want to
Speaker 1: make sure we do this thing the way that we're
Speaker 1: supposed to. You know, we are building with intention, which
Speaker 1: is why we have to kind of block out some
Speaker 1: of the calls for people, you know, for asking us
Speaker 1: to build faster or give us this feature right now,
Speaker 1: or what have you. You know, a lot of this has
Speaker 1: also been an education for our communities who have not
Speaker 1: had access to beta products in tech for or as
Speaker 1: much compared to our white counterparts, and so a lot
Speaker 1: of people didn't recognize that they were walking into a
Speaker 1: beta product or what that even meant. They didn't know, Oh,
Speaker 1: their only iPhone only, Oh they're only a month a
Speaker 1: week out of test flight. Oh they still have a
Speaker 1: whole product roadmap that they have to fulfill. Right, A
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't recognize that was the case. And
Speaker 1: so imagine our surprise to be a pre beta startup
Speaker 1: app funded to the tune of three million dollars at
Speaker 1: the time, in the same line as Threads, who bump
Speaker 1: their timeline up because of us. Don't think I didn't
Speaker 1: see that and all of the others, right, So imagine
Speaker 1: our surprise to be named amongst the giants that lets
Speaker 1: us know again, you know that this is the time
Speaker 1: for us, that the market and the demand is there,
Speaker 1: and that we just got to stay really focused, really disciplined,
Speaker 1: and keep doing what we're doing, and the sky's the
Speaker 1: limit for all of us.
Speaker 3: I mean, speaking of Threads, Mark Zuckerberg famously his motto
Speaker 3: was move fast and break things. And I personally don't
Speaker 3: think that that ethos gets you intentional spaces that really
Speaker 3: have taken the time and the intention to build something really,
Speaker 3: you know, with a lot of thoughtfulness in mind. And
Speaker 3: I think that when you are building a platform for
Speaker 3: people who are traditionally marginalized to face things like harassment
Speaker 3: or bullying and that kind of thing doxing just for
Speaker 3: who they are, and showing up. You really don't want
Speaker 3: to move too fast, and so I wonder is there
Speaker 3: do you ever feel from folks who maybe really like
Speaker 3: Spill that they're like, oh, this needs like I want
Speaker 3: it to be open to everyone right away, or I
Speaker 3: want there to be more people right away. Do you
Speaker 3: is it difficult to resist the calls to do things
Speaker 3: really quickly and to be for everybody right away as
Speaker 3: opposed to taking a little bit slower and with a
Speaker 3: little bit more intention.
Speaker 1: You know, what we see the most are people wanting
Speaker 1: all of the features all at once, right now immediately.
Speaker 1: That's the that's the most pressure that we get. We've
Speaker 1: actually seen some interesting you know, folks being very careful
Speaker 1: and selective about who they give their golden ticket invites
Speaker 1: out to on Spill. You know, that's been some interesting
Speaker 1: behavior to watch folks be really protective and selective of
Speaker 1: this space already. You know, we hear that people want
Speaker 1: the features and that excites us because our team, we
Speaker 1: know our product roadmap. Everybody else is going to find
Speaker 1: it out in real time and the stuff that we've
Speaker 1: got coming is very very very exciting, and it's going
Speaker 1: to just open up a whole world of opportunity and
Speaker 1: creativity to fulfill our mission. And as we've stated it,
Speaker 1: you know again, I think it's just about us reminding
Speaker 1: ourselves that we come to the table with decades of experience,
Speaker 1: all of us combined, and this work didn't just start,
Speaker 1: you know, when we all took our position here. I'm
Speaker 1: bringing my you know, experience, Fonds our CEO, bringing his
Speaker 1: breadth of experience. I mean, I don't know if there's
Speaker 1: anybody more talented and more perfectly positioned to lead us
Speaker 1: in this endeavor than him. You know, somebody who was
Speaker 1: you know, the outgoing social and editorial head for that
Speaker 1: former Bluebird app and you know, clear award winning Webby
Speaker 1: Award winning can Lyon Award winning Come on, right, We've
Speaker 1: got some of the best builders and technologists behind us.
Speaker 1: So this is an a team, y'all. Right, Like this
Speaker 1: is this is a really talented team who's bringing their
Speaker 1: life's work to this space and we are being met
Speaker 1: with a hell of a lot of support across across
Speaker 1: the way. So we've got what we need to be successful.
Speaker 1: And our biggest ask for our community is, you know,
Speaker 1: come on, spill, have a good time, trust us and
Speaker 1: or allow us to earn your trust and together we're
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna do this.
Speaker 3: We're in this moment that feels like the future of
Speaker 3: technology is kind of happening right now. What do you
Speaker 3: see on the horizon as it pertains to technology or
Speaker 3: platforms or what would you like to see in this moment? Like,
Speaker 3: you know, what do you think is next for us?
Speaker 2: In the space?
Speaker 1: Spill is next? You know, what people experience right now
Speaker 1: on platform is just a drop in the bucket of
Speaker 1: what we have in store. There are tons of not
Speaker 1: just features, but really interesting partnerships that we're going to
Speaker 1: be bringing to the table again blending the IRL and
Speaker 1: the URL in the advantage of people who are black, brown, queer,
Speaker 1: and other marginalized groups. Right So we've never seen that before.
Speaker 1: So I don't want to look past that opportunity right now.
Speaker 1: I want to stay present in that this is the
Speaker 1: space that we are cultivating and curating and stepping into
Speaker 1: right now. And tremendous excitement fills my spirit when I
Speaker 1: think about what we've yet to do and what we
Speaker 1: can do.
Speaker 3: Okay, so I know you probably can't answer this, but
Speaker 3: I promised my producer that I would ask.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, wait a minute, I already know the answer.
Speaker 2: You're not going to be an answer.
Speaker 3: But okay, do you have any sense, any sense at
Speaker 3: all of when it might be open to everybody and
Speaker 3: not be invite only the answer?
Speaker 2: Probably, I can't. You can't say, but the answer.
Speaker 1: Do I have a sense of it? I have a
Speaker 1: whole sense of it.
Speaker 2: Oh, but can you share it with us?
Speaker 1: You guys see a lesson in asking your questions?
Speaker 4: That right? That is fair?
Speaker 1: Do I have a sense? I have all the senses
Speaker 1: I do. Here's what I will say. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a really big quarter for us. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a really big quarter for us. So get on
Speaker 1: spill if you're not already, and I'd be happy to
Speaker 1: extend a special exclusive for your listeners. I'm going to
Speaker 1: drop an invite code for y'all. So for the listeners
Speaker 1: of the There Are No Girls on the Internet podcast,
Speaker 1: please accept this invitation to join the spill a verse.
Speaker 1: You can use the code spill Mob that's s p
Speaker 1: I L l M O B as your invite to
Speaker 1: get on platform and I'll see you there.
Speaker 3: Ken Yet, you've just made a lot of people very
Speaker 3: happy because I have literally gotten dms that are like,
Speaker 3: can you get me a spill code? Where's a spill code?
Speaker 3: So you've made a lot of people very happy.
Speaker 2: You can stop dming me, Kennyet. This is incredible.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm rooting for you all like I'm already on spill.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: I love how quickly it moves. I love how you
Speaker 3: said this earlier night. It really sounded correct to me.
Speaker 3: It feels like what the inside of my head looks
Speaker 3: like sometimes, where it's references and memes and jokes and
Speaker 3: video like. It feels like taking a walk through the
Speaker 3: inside of my brain in the best way possible.
Speaker 1: That's so great and that makes sense, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: we are not a monolith at all, right, but there
Speaker 1: is something to be said that we do have black
Speaker 1: women as engineers in this product. So we do have
Speaker 1: black women as the head of community and partnerships, support, moderation,
Speaker 1: editorial as well. Right, right, we are in these spaces,
Speaker 1: and so you know it should feel for us, by us,
Speaker 1: because it is for us, by us, but it is
Speaker 1: for us. It is by us, for us, and for
Speaker 1: everybody who is in alignment with our with our mission.
Speaker 1: Bridget I just want to say congratulations to you. I
Speaker 1: think what you have done with this with this podcast
Speaker 1: is incredible. I am a listener, I am a supporter.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me today and I
Speaker 1: wish you all of the success. And I better see
Speaker 1: this in the spill averse. You can put this on
Speaker 1: the spool of course.
Speaker 3: Of course, so with people are showing up on spill,
Speaker 3: you know, given that it's still in beta, what kind
Speaker 3: of relationship do you hope to have with folks to
Speaker 3: us trying out the platform?
Speaker 1: So, uh, we are building a reciprocal relationship with our
Speaker 1: community in Spill and that's never really been done before
Speaker 1: at this level either. And what that means specifically is
Speaker 1: an invitation for the community to give us feedback. And
Speaker 1: that's exactly what this beta stage allows us to do, right.
Speaker 1: It means, you know, communicate with us, not just help
Speaker 1: us find the bucks, but let us know what you'd
Speaker 1: like to see. And I you know, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be starting, uh to engage with our creators on a
Speaker 1: much more you know, one to one level to really
Speaker 1: understand what types of you know, activities do you guys
Speaker 1: you know, want to be engaging in on and off platform,
Speaker 1: What types of tools do you need specifically when you
Speaker 1: create over here? What would make you want to create
Speaker 1: over here? Like, we really want to build this space
Speaker 1: for UH, the creators who again are driving culture and
Speaker 1: having to figure out how to move around weird algorithms
Speaker 1: on other platforms.
Speaker 4: UH.
Speaker 1: We want we want to make sure that you feel
Speaker 1: centered and that the tech that you engage with on
Speaker 1: Spill feels like it was designed for you, because that's
Speaker 1: what we're doing. So we are inviting everybody to partake
Speaker 1: in this UH beta stage with us and give us
Speaker 1: this feedback in real time so that when we do
Speaker 1: make it to the Promised Land, we can look around
Speaker 1: and know exactly how we got here, linked left and
Speaker 1: arm with our cousins who helped us along the way.
Speaker 3: So that's I'm so glad you added that, And it
Speaker 3: goes back to what you were saying about. You know,
Speaker 3: not every not everybody has had the experience of, you know,
Speaker 3: beta testing something, and so if you've never had a
Speaker 3: platform in beta before, or showed up to a platform
Speaker 3: in beta, this could be your first time to really
Speaker 3: see what that's about and really really help build the
Speaker 3: platform that you want to see. So I would urge
Speaker 3: listeners to really take you up on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and brands too, you know, don't sleep, don't sleep
Speaker 1: brands would need to make their way to spill start
Speaker 1: engaging with the spill verse because we are curating it
Speaker 1: very intentionally. Like I've been saying, you know, a group
Speaker 1: of folks who we know and they know set the trends.
Speaker 1: But to have us all gathered in one space at
Speaker 1: one time, celebs and notables mixed with content creators, mixed
Speaker 1: with journalists, mixed with you know, public figures, mixed with
Speaker 1: everyday folks, right, all in one beautiful gumbo is a
Speaker 1: very powerful thing and they know that. So we need
Speaker 1: everybody support to go the long haul. And Bridget, I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful to have yours.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being here, kidiot,
Speaker 2: this was a dream. You are saying. You are such
Speaker 2: a good podcast guest. I can't even I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or
Speaker 3: just want to say hi? You can read us at
Speaker 3: Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts
Speaker 3: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No
Speaker 3: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.
Speaker 3: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed. Creative Jonathan Strickland
Speaker 3: is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and
Speaker 3: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,
Speaker 3: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate
Speaker 3: and review.
Speaker 4: Us on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Oh My very will