Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Speaker 2: Everybody is j n V, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne, the gud
Speaker 2: We are the Breakfast Club. Laura Rosa filling in for Jess.
Speaker 2: We got some special guests with us this morning. We
Speaker 2: have the founder and CEO of The lip Ball, Melissa Butler. Welcome,
Speaker 2: and we also have co founders of Rucca Roots, doctor
Speaker 2: Ellen Rucca Sellers and I own Rucca Jamison Welcome.
Speaker 3: Good morning having us.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1: No, we you know, the.
Speaker 5: Reason we wanted you here to day is because this
Speaker 5: is all this conversation about Target and should folks boycott
Speaker 5: Target because they rolled back their DEI policies. But then
Speaker 5: there are people who say we should be doing a
Speaker 5: buyout and supporting all the black owned products in Target,
Speaker 5: and you all have black owned products in Target.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to hear from you all.
Speaker 6: Well. Thank you absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 7: Thank you for this opportunity, Thank you for this platform
Speaker 7: talk to Thank you for this opportunity, Thank you for
Speaker 7: this platform. You know, I think it's very important for
Speaker 7: brand owners to have a voice in this because every
Speaker 7: day we are in there grinding. We have worked so
Speaker 7: hard to get on the shelf. The shelf space is
Speaker 7: a covenant space, right, everybody didn't get the opportunity. And
Speaker 7: and for a brand to get to shelf space, it
Speaker 7: is a huge, like a process like it does.
Speaker 6: It takes years, it really does. And to stay there,
Speaker 6: it's so it's so hard too.
Speaker 7: And so I'm so glad that you gave us this
Speaker 7: platform because we need our community. We need our community
Speaker 7: to you know, galvanize around these black brands because we're
Speaker 7: fighting a good fight too, right, So.
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's take it back. Let's go, Let's go
Speaker 1: to the problem.
Speaker 2: Let's start with since you're speaking, let's talk about Rocker Roots,
Speaker 2: what rocker Roots is, and talk about the process of
Speaker 2: selling your productcause most people don't know, they don't understand,
Speaker 2: like you said, they automatically think you have a product,
Speaker 2: you put it in Walmart in your good mind, they
Speaker 2: understand that you know it goes from one store and
Speaker 2: then the region and then from nucial store. So break
Speaker 2: it down to what rucker Roots is, how it started,
Speaker 2: and how you.
Speaker 7: Self rugger Roots we're all natural haircare company. I own
Speaker 7: it and I started it in twenty fifteen with the
Speaker 7: goal of being a household brand, right, And so we
Speaker 7: started it in professional salon, so we gave product to
Speaker 7: you know, stylists and let them use the product.
Speaker 6: We had a distributor.
Speaker 7: Then we went to trade shows, which we met Melissa
Speaker 7: at several trade shows, trying to get your product out there.
Speaker 6: So you're in front of the consumer.
Speaker 7: And once you get the notoriety or the once you
Speaker 7: get enough recognition amongst some of these retailers, they come
Speaker 7: to you and say, hey, you know, let's talk about
Speaker 7: coming into retail. And so our first retailer was Sally's
Speaker 7: Beauty and then Target.
Speaker 6: And after you get one, you get more.
Speaker 7: But you know, in order to stay in those retail stores,
Speaker 7: you get audited. Basically every year you have a line review.
Speaker 7: If you're not performing, guess what, your space is gone.
Speaker 7: And so when we look at the boycott, I'm not
Speaker 7: telling people not the boycott, like, that's not in my spirit,
Speaker 7: That's not where I come from, you know. I mean,
Speaker 7: boycotting is part of you know, our blood lot, right.
Speaker 7: What I am telling people is you can't forget these
Speaker 7: black friends that have worked so hard to get there,
Speaker 7: because it's a long process.
Speaker 5: And see That's why I think a buyout is good
Speaker 5: because of what you said. If you know, these products
Speaker 5: are sitting on the celf and Target and nobody goes
Speaker 5: in there and buys them, then that gives them a
Speaker 5: reason to say, you know what, get this stuff out
Speaker 5: of here anyway.
Speaker 7: And and honestly, isn't that the goal? Absolutely isn't that
Speaker 7: the goal? And that's that's what we're working. I mean,
Speaker 7: that's the goal for them, you know, to weed us out,
Speaker 7: to discourage us to you know, bring trauma and drama
Speaker 7: and all the things that you know, as black women
Speaker 7: we have we have to deal with every single day
Speaker 7: anyway with.
Speaker 8: How okay Ellen, Ellen and I are sisters, and we're
Speaker 8: from South Carolina, the cy Carolanian say Charlemagne, And we
Speaker 8: come from a very big family and a very small
Speaker 8: town where four out of ten people in our town
Speaker 8: are unbaked or either under Bay, so they don't have
Speaker 8: the debit cards to shop online. All they have is
Speaker 8: to go into our local Walmart and get products off
Speaker 8: the shells. So that's forty percent of our clientele that
Speaker 8: can't shop online. Now, we're not telling you not to
Speaker 8: shop online, because as we all know, we want you
Speaker 8: to shop online. But you know, we come from a
Speaker 8: small town where a lot of our clientele can't shop online.
Speaker 1: We wid.
Speaker 4: We can't even when COVID hit our hometown.
Speaker 8: We couldn't even have remote schools because most of the
Speaker 8: people don't have the enemy. Yeah, so we want our
Speaker 8: people to be able to go to the Walmart and
Speaker 8: pick up our products and shop, I think.
Speaker 3: More than anything. So throughout this process, it's been really
Speaker 3: disappointing to feel the wrath of our own community. Like
Speaker 3: I started the lip Bar in twenty twelve, literally making
Speaker 3: lipstick in my kitchen because I was frustrated with the
Speaker 3: beauty industry, it's lack of diversity, its successive amounts of chemicals.
Speaker 3: But I really wanted to center black women, and I've
Speaker 3: been doing that for twelve years, Like twelve years, I've
Speaker 3: been standing up for black women, saying, hey, you are enough. Hey,
Speaker 3: I am creating products for you. Hey, I'm making sure
Speaker 3: that I am building our self esteem collectively. And so
Speaker 3: when this happens, I want our community to know that
Speaker 3: we are disappointed too, Like we're upset with Target and
Speaker 3: Walmart and Google and all of these companies that have
Speaker 3: shut down their dei.
Speaker 9: But to ask us to.
Speaker 3: Remove our products from retail, it's unrealistic because what does
Speaker 3: that look like for most black businesses. It looks like
Speaker 3: a shutting down or actual businesses. So you ask, like,
Speaker 3: how does it work to get into retail? Well, how
Speaker 3: it works is we buy inventory upfront months in advance,
Speaker 3: you almost a year, so when you think about retail,
Speaker 3: when you think about retail, it's kind of a crazy thing,
Speaker 3: like we buy products to sit on shelf just in
Speaker 3: case you want it, which means that we are we
Speaker 3: are having to outlay capital at the forefront for thousands,
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of units so
Speaker 3: that if you go into your local Target, Walmart, CBS,
Speaker 3: it is available for you.
Speaker 10: M amount of it.
Speaker 11: Depends on it depends on how many doors. Some stores
Speaker 11: do have that it's a large amount, and they don't
Speaker 11: give you money.
Speaker 3: To and they don't give you money to up it,
Speaker 3: and so you have have to buy that inventory, but
Speaker 3: you don't get paid on that inventory for sometimes eight months,
Speaker 3: you know a year, depending on when you set and
Speaker 3: then once they place the order, you can have terms
Speaker 3: that are net sixty ninety, so like black owned brands
Speaker 3: are waiting on their finances to come through. We can't
Speaker 3: just pull our products from Target. Were wearing contracts with them.
Speaker 3: We are for the most part dependent on retailers to
Speaker 3: ensure that we have the visibility and to make sure
Speaker 3: that we have the urns. Now, some people will say like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: just you know, make sure they shop at your dot
Speaker 3: com y'all. In twenty twenty, when black people when it
Speaker 3: was a trend to shop black businesses, we all benefited. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we all benefited.
Speaker 9: It felt good.
Speaker 3: We were living in the money. We hire more people,
Speaker 3: we bought more inventory, and then guess what, it wasn't
Speaker 3: in vogue to shop black anymore. So I want us
Speaker 3: to remember the buying power of black businesses. Sure, if
Speaker 3: you want a boycott, boycott, because there is so much
Speaker 3: power in our dollars. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: we have to be intentional about our shopping to make
Speaker 3: sure that our dollars are going back to our communities.
Speaker 9: Because guess what black people hire black people like.
Speaker 3: My team is seventy five percent black, my team is
Speaker 3: one hundred percent women.
Speaker 9: I'm investing in my community.
Speaker 3: I gave thirty five thousand dollars in grants to black
Speaker 3: women last year.
Speaker 9: So it's like, this is what black businesses are doing.
Speaker 3: So the minute you decide that shopping black is a trend,
Speaker 3: it negatively impacts us. The minute you decide that you
Speaker 3: won't shop in the stores that carry our products, it
Speaker 3: will impact us. Now, we're not here to say you
Speaker 3: should shop and these retailers. If you feel disrespected, you
Speaker 3: have the ability and the right to take your dollars
Speaker 3: wherever you are most comfortable. But to your point, don't
Speaker 3: forget about us. Please do, in fact, go to our
Speaker 3: dot com exactly.
Speaker 7: And honestly, if you think about the amount of money
Speaker 7: that it's spent black people spend on beauty brands, it's
Speaker 7: like nine point four billion dollars, right, and as a
Speaker 7: brand founder, we get about a small percentage of that,
Speaker 7: like two point five percent. It's spent with you know,
Speaker 7: black brands. Think about our community and it's all that
Speaker 7: nine point four billion dollars went to these black brands.
Speaker 3: Yeah, then we we can do, and then we.
Speaker 6: Could have our own targets.
Speaker 7: And so that's the thing that you know, we need
Speaker 7: to I think that we need to you know, I
Speaker 7: know that there's a boycott not telling people not to boycott.
Speaker 7: I understand that, but I think we have to switch
Speaker 7: our mindset to, Hey, you know, we haven't been, you know,
Speaker 7: shopping fully with these black brands all along.
Speaker 9: How about you know.
Speaker 7: We blood blood, their spaces blood, you know, stop stop.
Speaker 6: Buying any other brand and just buy black.
Speaker 5: The power in that, yeah, because the reality isn't you
Speaker 5: know when all of this first started happening, I didn't
Speaker 5: even know that Target had all of these black brands.
Speaker 1: Oh to me, that's a.
Speaker 5: Good thing to have the awareness, But now what do
Speaker 5: we do with that awareness?
Speaker 11: And women I feel like girls who follow beauty, like
Speaker 11: I remember when you got into Target, and I remember
Speaker 11: being like, oh my god, Like that's so lit. Now
Speaker 11: I can I don't have to go and like scavenger
Speaker 11: hunt for her. So it's unfortunate when I remember when
Speaker 11: Tabitha Brown got into Target, like we kind of celebrated
Speaker 11: because it is the platform. But at the same time,
Speaker 11: there is some weird stuff because like I heard, I
Speaker 11: saw a report that one of the brands said that
Speaker 11: they found out when we found out that that the.
Speaker 9: D all find out.
Speaker 3: Nothing, nothing, And so now we're just on the front
Speaker 3: lines fighting on social media, because people are are coming
Speaker 3: at us as if we did it, as if we
Speaker 3: created it. So no, we did not have a head up.
Speaker 3: That was very unfortunate. But I will say, like myself,
Speaker 3: people like Tabitha Brown, people like beef from honey Pot.
Speaker 3: We have been having constant conversation with Target about the impacts,
Speaker 3: about their responsibility in the matter, and frankly pushing them
Speaker 3: on what they need to do next. And so just
Speaker 3: know that just because like we are online and we're
Speaker 3: still selling our products, that does not mean that in
Speaker 3: the background we are not fighting the good fight within
Speaker 3: the retailer. Because at the end of the day, like
Speaker 3: I know people are upset with Target and Walmart, but
Speaker 3: like we actually have skin in the game, Like yeah,
Speaker 3: you need to find a new place to shop your
Speaker 3: toilet paper, but we are actually in business with them,
Speaker 3: so of course we're upset. We are more upset with
Speaker 3: these retailers for blind siding us and for frankly not
Speaker 3: being clear on what this actually means. Now that being said,
Speaker 3: all of those brands, for the most part, shopped or
Speaker 3: launched in Target before DEI was this three letter trend
Speaker 3: word like going back to like dark and lovely. They've
Speaker 3: been pushing and building small black owned businesses so far
Speaker 3: as I know, they continue, they will continue to do that.
Speaker 3: But the reality is we are we are witnessing an
Speaker 3: attack of d I. We are witnessing an attack from
Speaker 3: the government on de I. So like, how how are
Speaker 3: we all supposed to manage that? Are we supposed to
Speaker 3: shut down our gmails?
Speaker 2: I ask the d get your products in there? Did
Speaker 2: they give you the opportunity to get in there?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: No, no, no.
Speaker 7: We got into retail because we were a strong brand.
Speaker 7: Now do you know some of the buyers look like
Speaker 7: us and they appreciate, you know, representation absolutely. You know,
Speaker 7: some of the buyers that we have met with, you know,
Speaker 7: with some of our retailers, they are African American buyers.
Speaker 6: And that's so important.
Speaker 7: Too to make sure that you know, we, you know,
Speaker 7: have those people in those positions so that they can
Speaker 7: bring in brands like us and understand the importance. But
Speaker 7: if you look at how much African Americans spend, I mean.
Speaker 8: The retailers are all in the money making business, right
Speaker 8: they we spend money.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's a business.
Speaker 8: We don't foresee are our brand's going in I mean,
Speaker 8: you know, we don't. They want to make money, and
Speaker 8: our consumers spend the most money.
Speaker 4: That's just facts.
Speaker 3: So I just really, black women spend nine times our
Speaker 3: white counterparts on beauty products. And so obviously there's a
Speaker 3: difference in a black woman's hair and a white woman's
Speaker 3: hair in terms of makeup. Aside from color theory and
Speaker 3: a brand caring enough to actually have a wide range
Speaker 3: of colors, there's no there's no real difference. And so
Speaker 3: my buying team is actually not women of color. They've
Speaker 3: never been women of color, and so I think that
Speaker 3: speaks to the idea that, like to your point, they're
Speaker 3: in the money business. Like everybody here is trying to
Speaker 3: fill a gap. Everyone is trying to figure out how
Speaker 3: do I get more customers to shop our products. And
Speaker 3: this is where you know, if you have a recer roots,
Speaker 3: if you have a bar, and you understand that this
Speaker 3: can bring a different customer, you have an advantage hit.
Speaker 3: And so we all have strong businesses, we all have
Speaker 3: strong brands, we have strong followings, and that's how we've
Speaker 3: been able to stay in retail this long.
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, last time I got hand on your products, Melissa,
Speaker 5: we was at the DNC convention and Governor Gretchen with,
Speaker 5: Oh my God, give me an Angela Rai and who
Speaker 5: else was it? Tiffany Cross? Like this game was all
Speaker 5: products at the table.
Speaker 3: So I am from Detroit. Detroit is a big part
Speaker 3: of my resilience and my grit, and like she has
Speaker 3: stood up for Michigan in a big way.
Speaker 9: And so she's one of.
Speaker 3: Those people where it's like if she decided tomorrow that
Speaker 3: she can't use the word de i anymore, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to say, like, oh, you know, she she not
Speaker 3: about the people, like she has shown me over the
Speaker 3: years that she is showing up. But we love us
Speaker 3: some big gritch.
Speaker 5: I want to expound on that, right because somebody told me,
Speaker 5: and I don't know if this is true, they said
Speaker 5: Target didn't actually roll back there initiative, just changed your name.
Speaker 1: Is that true.
Speaker 7: I think that a lot of these corporations are scared
Speaker 7: to get sued by the government, right.
Speaker 6: I think that's what they are nervous about.
Speaker 7: You know, this new administration coming in and making all
Speaker 7: these changes and and the war on diversity, equity, inclusion,
Speaker 7: and they're scared to get sued if they put it
Speaker 7: out there and I know, you know, just this week,
Speaker 7: we just we just shipped huge orders to you know,
Speaker 7: one of our retailers.
Speaker 6: Really yeah, we're yeah, we just.
Speaker 7: But you know, that has been in the plan for
Speaker 7: a long time, like Melissa.
Speaker 6: Spoke to earlier. It's not like an overnight thing. But
Speaker 6: of course they could have gone in and canceled those orders.
Speaker 7: They could have not sent them to us, because that
Speaker 7: is their prerogative too, to not send the purchase orders.
Speaker 7: But we're in the process of shipping tons of inventory
Speaker 7: to one of these major retailers that have come out
Speaker 7: and said that they are against the diversity equity.
Speaker 1: Oh so they doubled down on their send us stuff.
Speaker 7: No, they are part of the they they have rollback
Speaker 7: diversity equity.
Speaker 6: But we are getting huge purchase orders.
Speaker 1: The product is moving, but.
Speaker 8: We need the people to go into the stores and
Speaker 8: purchase the product.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and same same on the target front. So
Speaker 3: like we've had conversations and we're like, what does this
Speaker 3: mean for our brand, because like you know, it's it's
Speaker 3: crazy to the idea of like being so outspoken on
Speaker 3: this without going to target themselves, Like we want to
Speaker 3: go straight to the source.
Speaker 9: So we're like, Yo, what's up.
Speaker 3: Brands, and they're like, it means nothing for exactly, we
Speaker 3: will continue to invest in your brand. And we've seen
Speaker 3: purchase orders you know that were that were larger than usual,
Speaker 3: but not because like they feel bad, because the products
Speaker 3: are moving, like we're known for our lip colors, Like
Speaker 3: we've been doing this for twelve years and we continue
Speaker 3: to grow year over year, and so that retailer is
Speaker 3: going to see that and they're going to continue to
Speaker 3: double down.
Speaker 9: They're not.
Speaker 3: They're not just kicking all the black brands out. I
Speaker 3: just want to be clean.
Speaker 5: But I wonder if that's because of the they're calling
Speaker 5: it a bycot, because there's some people who are like, no,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go in these stores and I'm going to
Speaker 5: buy all the black products. I may not buy anything else,
Speaker 5: but I'm gonna buy a black.
Speaker 7: Product, and we want you to do that, and we're
Speaker 7: not telling I'm like, we're not here to tell you
Speaker 7: where to shop.
Speaker 6: We're here to tell, like, ask you to shop with us.
Speaker 7: You know, we're not telling you oh blah, yeah, we're
Speaker 7: not telling you not to go into Target.
Speaker 4: Tell me the effects of what yes business exactly.
Speaker 2: It was something because to making Mallory was here and
Speaker 2: she was saying that, you know, when people go to
Speaker 2: these stores sometimes they forget like you know, they'll.
Speaker 5: Go to get might go get the lip bardy, might
Speaker 5: go get rug exactly to people, that's the reason that
Speaker 5: you do it.
Speaker 2: But people don't, you know, understand the effects of people
Speaker 2: who are you know, have businesses in Target or Walmart
Speaker 2: or Sam's Clubs or Costco that it effects.
Speaker 1: So what do you tell those people?
Speaker 2: Like so you tell them, look, we understand the boycott,
Speaker 2: but you gotta you gotta, you gotta understand that we're
Speaker 2: supporting so many of our community and we got to
Speaker 2: make this happen.
Speaker 1: Got to make this work some house, some way.
Speaker 7: I tell them, shop wherever you decide to shop, but
Speaker 7: shot Black shop with us.
Speaker 6: We you know, we want you to.
Speaker 7: Buy the products wherever you feel comfortable buying them, wherever
Speaker 7: you have access to buying them because so many people,
Speaker 7: like our own was mentioning earlier, they only have certain
Speaker 7: amount of stores that they can actually shop.
Speaker 8: If you have the luxury of boycotting and you feel
Speaker 8: the need to boycott, then go ahead and do that.
Speaker 8: But some people don't have that luxury, like I said,
Speaker 8: and we have. You know, we always talk about promoting
Speaker 8: generational wealth, promoting you know, giving back. We have a
Speaker 8: fun of Rugger Edu Scholarship Fund where it's going on
Speaker 8: our twelfth year where we give back scholarships to students
Speaker 8: from our hometown that our first generation scholarship students. So
Speaker 8: we want to do more of that in our community.
Speaker 8: We want to create more generational wealth. And to know
Speaker 8: wanted to do that, you have to continue to support
Speaker 8: our brands because we have done everything.
Speaker 4: Like Melissa just said, we fronted.
Speaker 8: We just fronted so much inventory and we want to
Speaker 8: sell it through because we you know, if not then
Speaker 8: we'll have these huge buybacks and that just chargebacks, and
Speaker 8: that just really hurts our business and our brands.
Speaker 10: You mentioned the thing about Target just changing the name.
Speaker 10: They did both.
Speaker 11: So they changed the name of their supplier Diversity team
Speaker 11: to Supplier Engagement and then they also got rid of
Speaker 11: their belonging at the Bullseye, which is a strategy to
Speaker 11: include black employees, build meaningful careers and improve like experience
Speaker 11: of black shoppers and promote black owned businesses.
Speaker 10: So they did both of them.
Speaker 6: And I know we're talking about Target, but for us
Speaker 6: rugger Roots.
Speaker 7: We're in several seven different retail stores, so there's so
Speaker 7: many other options to show.
Speaker 6: So we're in Target, We're in JC penny, We're.
Speaker 7: In Belt, We're in Sally's, We're in Amazon, We're in Walmart, Walmart, Walmart.
Speaker 7: And if you look at you know, jcpenny and Belt,
Speaker 7: they have doubled down on their di they are you know,
Speaker 7: they are adamant about keeping diversity, equity.
Speaker 6: Inclusion with you know their companies.
Speaker 7: And we're there too, so you know, we and our products,
Speaker 7: you know, we're on shelf at all of those places.
Speaker 7: And as a black owned business, if you're going to
Speaker 7: boycott one.
Speaker 6: Then flood flood the other.
Speaker 7: Our website is, I mean, we have a warehouse in
Speaker 7: Indian Land, South Carolina where.
Speaker 6: We're shipping, packing, sending.
Speaker 7: Orders out every day on our e commerce and a
Speaker 7: lot of times I own and I are in there.
Speaker 6: Like last week I posted on my social.
Speaker 7: Media, I was like wrapping a past that was going
Speaker 7: out to Walmart. Like we're still in there grinding every
Speaker 7: single day. And so if you're gonna you know, say okay,
Speaker 7: we're gonna not shop here, then shop elsewhere. Support the
Speaker 7: brand elsewhere where, you feel comfortable.
Speaker 3: I think one of the misconceptions is that if a
Speaker 3: brand is in retail, they've already made it.
Speaker 9: Yeah, they're already They're already huge.
Speaker 3: And it's like, just because you know, we get pressed
Speaker 3: or because we're on the breakfast clip, that does not
Speaker 3: mean that the brand has actually gone the distance.
Speaker 9: So I just want.
Speaker 3: People to know that by by not shopping you know,
Speaker 3: Black Owned, no matter what the channel is, know that
Speaker 3: you are impacting how someone is feeding their fam absolutely,
Speaker 3: like just because the lip bar, you know, press, press
Speaker 3: and likes do not equal dollars, Like, let's not get
Speaker 3: get fooled by the social media hil and so people
Speaker 3: are people will say like, oh, they already got it.
Speaker 3: It's fine that they can. They can miss the dollars. No,
Speaker 3: because we got payroll every two weeks.
Speaker 8: My boy, we got warehouse, we got warehouse rent, we
Speaker 8: got rent to pay all the things.
Speaker 10: So oh, go ahead.
Speaker 11: I was gonna ask behind the scenes, though I don't
Speaker 11: know how close a lot of you, like the Black
Speaker 11: Owned brands were in these major retailers with this Target
Speaker 11: walmartor whatever. But I feel like now because y'all are
Speaker 11: kind of going through this together, has it created a
Speaker 11: line of communication or system where you guys are figuring
Speaker 11: out things amongst your own selves for the up and coming,
Speaker 11: like black owned brands that will hit retail like shops.
Speaker 3: And Yeah, I had a call actually, like pretty much
Speaker 3: immediately after it happened, renee blew it from she did that,
Speaker 3: she helped organize it, and my first thing was like,
Speaker 3: y'all need to reach out to your buyers because a
Speaker 3: lot of people are afraid.
Speaker 9: A lot of people were.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't think I have the leverage to even
Speaker 3: reach out to Target and ask them what's going on.
Speaker 10: Smaller brands and Target they're smaller.
Speaker 3: But meanwhile, it's like, we've been in Target for like
Speaker 3: eight years, so I know that I can reach out out.
Speaker 3: And I did reach out very aggressively actually, but I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: reach out to let them know that we are coming together.
Speaker 3: Reach out to let them know that we are demanding
Speaker 3: that y'all give us some responses and some meaning to
Speaker 3: what this is. Reach out and let them know that, like,
Speaker 3: we won't just stand for this. And so, like, I
Speaker 3: do think that it is bridging the gap because typically
Speaker 3: I think one of the issues in the black community
Speaker 3: is that we hold things to the chest and it's
Speaker 3: okay to be vulnerable because like, the more we are vulnerable,
Speaker 3: the more information we get, and the more information we have,
Speaker 3: then we can actually make better decisions. And so I
Speaker 3: think it's absolutely happening, and I'm proud of the work
Speaker 3: that a lot of the black owned businesses are doing
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 5: Can we talk more about you know, is it fair
Speaker 5: for black owned products to receive backlash but still having
Speaker 5: their products in Target or any of these stores that
Speaker 5: are rolling back to.
Speaker 6: De No, that's no more.
Speaker 9: No, it's not fair because here's the.
Speaker 3: Thing, like people are complaining on Meta that is that
Speaker 3: has rolled back their DEI, people are using their Gmail
Speaker 3: that has rolled back their DEI, people saying that black
Speaker 3: black owned businesses that are already small, that are already underfunded.
Speaker 3: Black women receive less than one percent of all VC dollars,
Speaker 3: and I actually think that the number went down post COVID,
Speaker 3: Like we can't afford to do it. So what people
Speaker 3: are asking us to do is essentially like you know,
Speaker 3: fill our houses, closed our doors, fire our entire teams.
Speaker 3: And it's like, are you doing that for the for
Speaker 3: the community, Are you doing that for the struggle, like
Speaker 3: are you quitting your job without a plan to feed
Speaker 3: your family? Like until we are all like locked in
Speaker 3: arms that this is what we're doing for the culture.
Speaker 3: It is. It is unfair. Now we're not over here
Speaker 3: saying you need to keep shopping at Target or Walmart
Speaker 3: or Amazon, any of these places because they have all
Speaker 3: decided to shut down.
Speaker 10: DEI.
Speaker 3: What we have said is like, we got my website,
Speaker 3: they have websites. I have a store in Detroit, Like
Speaker 3: shop wherever you choose to shop.
Speaker 9: That is your privative.
Speaker 8: Give us a little I can say that twenty five
Speaker 8: percent of our cells come from our internet, from our
Speaker 8: e commerce, from our website, so the other seventy five
Speaker 8: percent is from being on the shelves.
Speaker 4: So that's our livelihood.
Speaker 8: So we need you guys, you know, we need to
Speaker 8: stay on the shelves, and we need you guys to
Speaker 8: purchase from Walmart, Target.
Speaker 7: Give the black brands more more than two point five
Speaker 7: percent of the nine point four billion dollars that it's
Speaker 7: spent and on beauty.
Speaker 6: And it's easy, give us more percent.
Speaker 7: Give us a little bit more of that you know money, right,
Speaker 7: I mean, that's all we're asked because people people want
Speaker 7: to buy people.
Speaker 9: I want us to be honest.
Speaker 3: Like, if you go into your makeup bag, if you
Speaker 3: go into your your linen closet, if you go into
Speaker 3: your your actual closet, how many of those brands, Like
Speaker 3: your fashions, how much of it is black owned?
Speaker 9: How much of your makeup.
Speaker 10: A point today different, but.
Speaker 3: Like your your pantry, like your fashions, your hair, your makeup,
Speaker 3: like the lip bar is constantly begging people to shop
Speaker 3: the lip Bar over elf or over n y X. Like,
Speaker 3: and it's not just about the lip bar. There are
Speaker 3: lots of black owned brands you can shop.
Speaker 9: This is not just.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's about our community, about our community.
Speaker 8: We would love for you to go on our dot com,
Speaker 8: but we know that only twenty five percent of our
Speaker 8: sales come from there. I mean, we make more money
Speaker 8: when you shop on our website. Person, you know, our
Speaker 8: personal business website.
Speaker 10: So but.
Speaker 1: Anybody who talk you reached out at all?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I've talked to talk about for like two weeks.
Speaker 1: Okay, but what did they say? Like, what do they say?
Speaker 3: Say? Nothing?
Speaker 7: But you know, like our sales team with Walmart, We've
Speaker 7: had several conversations with them, like really strong conversations and
Speaker 7: they say the same thing. We didn't bring you in
Speaker 7: because of diversity, equity inclusion. We brought you in because
Speaker 7: you're a strong brand and where you know, we're going
Speaker 7: to keep you there as long as you're performing.
Speaker 6: But that's the key. We have to perform.
Speaker 11: But do they plan to, like say more to kind
Speaker 11: of like protect y'all alone, not protect yall because 'all
Speaker 11: don't need them to protect.
Speaker 10: Like they kind of like it aggravated things when it did.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so they don't plan on like what's the remedy
Speaker 11: because if this was the Black Square era, that would
Speaker 11: have been came out and I don't know, we're a
Speaker 11: cloth or something. So now they can be silent and
Speaker 11: no one cares and it's like whatever, But like the plan.
Speaker 10: Because you guys don't seem like you're leaving anytime soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you can't.
Speaker 10: I mean, so it's a partnership.
Speaker 3: I think that people have to continue to put pressure, honestly. So,
Speaker 3: I mean, in my conversations with Target, they have been apologetic.
Speaker 3: They have been clear that they are continuously investing in
Speaker 3: small black and brown brands, Like this is literally from
Speaker 3: like their mouths over.
Speaker 9: The last two weeks.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, listen, don't say it to me, say
Speaker 3: it to the public, because it's the public who is upset.
Speaker 3: It's the public who you owe something to, not just
Speaker 3: your vendors. And so I think we have to just
Speaker 3: continue to tell our story and demand what we want
Speaker 3: to see.
Speaker 5: And you know, I wonder I haven't spoken, and this
Speaker 5: is why it's so difficult, right because I love y'all,
Speaker 5: But then I love Denina Turners, and I love you
Speaker 5: to meet mallories, and I understand why you feel the
Speaker 5: way y'all feel, and understand why they feel the way
Speaker 5: they feel. But I wondered, was there any conversations amongst y'all,
Speaker 5: did any of the people wanting to boycott calling you
Speaker 5: the people who have brands.
Speaker 1: In the store.
Speaker 9: No.
Speaker 3: I talked to Roland Martin, okay, okay, and he he
Speaker 3: was like, we got a boycott, and I said, well, oh,
Speaker 3: we gotta do whatever we gotta do, but just make
Speaker 3: sure that y'all are clear on having a plan to
Speaker 3: continue to invest in and support black businesses, because it
Speaker 3: can't be this thing where it's it's trendy to shop
Speaker 3: black today and then two weeks later you know, we're
Speaker 3: not in vogue anymore.
Speaker 7: I mean I live with someone that's on the front line,
Speaker 7: because yeah, my husband is on TV fighting the good
Speaker 7: fight every single night, and we have these conversations at home,
Speaker 7: and you know, he understands that I have a business
Speaker 7: to promote.
Speaker 6: He appreciates the boycott where you.
Speaker 7: Know, boycott boycotting, and you know, civil rights movement is
Speaker 7: part of our bloodline, like we're from the Deep South,
Speaker 7: and in that I appreciate, you know, their movement because
Speaker 7: that's how things have changed in history. But like Melissa said,
Speaker 7: you know, it can't just be a trend to forget
Speaker 7: about these black brands. And so I think it just
Speaker 7: has to be you know, people have to look at
Speaker 7: it in a different lens. And that's why I think
Speaker 7: it's so important for black brands to have these conversations
Speaker 7: with the public, like hey, you know, that's great. You
Speaker 7: know we're If that's what you want to do, then
Speaker 7: you know, vote with your dollar.
Speaker 6: That's fine.
Speaker 3: What you say.
Speaker 2: The thing is conversation, right, it's something that you said earlier.
Speaker 2: Most time people when you see something in a store,
Speaker 2: the automatically think you made it right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's successful. You guys are rich, you guys are filter.
Speaker 2: You guys are billionaires because they don't understand what it takes.
Speaker 1: So without having.
Speaker 2: These conversations, people don't understand.
Speaker 1: And not only that.
Speaker 2: As a dad that goes into sallies, a lot of
Speaker 2: times I don't know what's a black brand or what's
Speaker 2: a regular brand. My wife to get some shampoo or
Speaker 2: we need a new shampoo for for whatever. So when
Speaker 2: I asked the lady at the front desk, who a
Speaker 2: lot of times might not be black that I.
Speaker 1: Use just for men.
Speaker 2: But but you need to have all these conversations where
Speaker 2: people understand what it is because a lot of times
Speaker 2: I don't think people actually get it because the first
Speaker 2: thing you think of is when you see a brand
Speaker 2: of Target, is that you guys have made it, and
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily the truth.
Speaker 5: And I believe, you know, there's guys like John Bryant
Speaker 5: who represented you know, uh, plans on what should happen.
Speaker 1: I believe what he says.
Speaker 5: He says we should redirect energy towards supporting companies that
Speaker 5: double that double down on the I and he says
Speaker 5: we should position diversity, equity and inclusion as a business
Speaker 5: imperative not a political.
Speaker 3: Right, but is it realistic to do that when the
Speaker 3: government has made it a political agenda?
Speaker 9: So some some.
Speaker 3: Of the companies right and target aside, like if the
Speaker 3: government is like we're gonna cut your funding if you
Speaker 3: if you uphold your d what is that that company's
Speaker 3: supposed to do? So maybe it doesn't impact costco because
Speaker 3: maybe they're not receiving government subsidies. But for those companies
Speaker 3: that that are, like, how how does that work? And
Speaker 3: I'm really I'm really asking because I feel like we
Speaker 3: have to be clear that it's not just the companies
Speaker 3: that are doing this DEI pull back, it's also Trump.
Speaker 6: If you just don't be absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's because of Trump.
Speaker 5: But I guess you know, John O'Brien is saying that
Speaker 5: you should reframe the narrative around diversity, equity and inclusion
Speaker 5: as critical for economic competitiveness, innovation, and market growth, like
Speaker 5: it impacts your bottom line, Like that's what we should
Speaker 5: be telling these companies.
Speaker 10: They know that though.
Speaker 11: What first thing you learn in if you have a
Speaker 11: retail background or seller's background at all, is market study.
Speaker 11: In numbers retail stores are placed, they choose clothing that
Speaker 11: goes into norsetrums based off who lives around that norsetrum.
Speaker 10: They know what people look like, how they shore, They
Speaker 10: know all of that. It's just do they have to
Speaker 10: care kind?
Speaker 1: And that's what I said.
Speaker 5: That's why when when I when I said do there,
Speaker 5: it's like, why would they even put out a press release?
Speaker 1: Like why would they just put this they did?
Speaker 3: I think they from the target perspective, they didn't put
Speaker 3: out a press and that's why, like they still haven't
Speaker 3: said anything because they're like, we didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen Walmart.
Speaker 3: Walmart absolutely put out they said. But but they did
Speaker 3: say what they're going to continue to do. And I
Speaker 3: think that that is what is o to the to
Speaker 3: the people, like instead of just saying like, okay, we're
Speaker 3: we're killing de I be clear on what that means.
Speaker 3: Be clear on what that means for not only your customers,
Speaker 3: but the people who work there.
Speaker 7: Or if you're if they're concerned about Trump and the administration,
Speaker 7: you know, giving them, you know, lawsuits or whatever. If
Speaker 7: they continue change the name, like do emerging brands like,
Speaker 7: you know, change change the name, but don't eliminate you know,
Speaker 7: these these you know these brand owners and these companies
Speaker 7: that work so hard to get to the place that.
Speaker 5: You know, you say you're just getting rid of the DEI.
Speaker 5: Anythink that you just don't care about black people.
Speaker 1: Don't care about black people.
Speaker 3: Get First of all, black people are not the biggest beneficiaries.
Speaker 8: Of de I.
Speaker 3: It's white women, it's white women, it's veterans, and it
Speaker 3: goes so much further than just black people. It's d
Speaker 3: I is the pumping rooms that women have when when
Speaker 3: they're pregnant. D I is the accessible ramps for disabled people.
Speaker 3: But I know Black people, because we are so unfortunately
Speaker 3: used to being oppressed in this country, we immediately are
Speaker 3: like they hate black people, and rightfully so. Right so
Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well tell tell us.
Speaker 9: That you don't.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what we're all waiting for from
Speaker 3: all of these companies.
Speaker 5: Have this question, and I know that y'all have answered
Speaker 5: it in different ways throughout the interview, but I just
Speaker 5: want to be clear, what do you think is the
Speaker 5: appropriate strategy to let these companies know that we don't
Speaker 5: like how they drop DEI without affecting y'all's.
Speaker 7: Bottom line, the companies or our community both m hm.
Speaker 9: I think we have to keep being vocal.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything wrong with putting a bullseye
Speaker 3: on Target and saying we won't accept this. But I
Speaker 3: also think that in the same vein, we have to
Speaker 3: be intentional shoppers to ensure that we are actually voting
Speaker 3: with our dollar. But like, keep keep putting the pressure
Speaker 3: on Target.
Speaker 2: Why not, We'll let bulls eye affect your business, though
Speaker 2: what they look back and be like, you know what,
Speaker 2: this is being too difficult with this damn bulls eye.
Speaker 3: Not if ourselves are impacted. So like they speak green first.
Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, Yeah, so you're performing and if you're if
Speaker 7: you're if your products aren't just sitting there, and if
Speaker 7: they're making money and all the things, and they're going
Speaker 7: to keep you there, then less I can say whatever
Speaker 7: she wants every five because all they care about is
Speaker 7: the money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, company and Target.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, And we've been in Target since twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, and we've grown a year over year, and like,
Speaker 3: of course we're disappointed, but we're not gonna pull our
Speaker 3: products from Target in this moment because it doesn't make
Speaker 3: financial sense for us. But we will continue to put
Speaker 3: pressure on Target and say yo, like this is not okay,
Speaker 3: right go.
Speaker 10: Ahead, No, go ahead, you can go.
Speaker 8: I don't even know what I was going to ask this.
Speaker 11: This whole thing brings up a conversation of like how
Speaker 11: people feel when, especially the black beauty brands begin to
Speaker 11: like if they're bought out by non black people stuff
Speaker 11: like that.
Speaker 10: I remember, I think, what was it Courtney's brand or
Speaker 10: was it.
Speaker 11: It was one of those brands that something like that
Speaker 11: happened with and they got dragged for it. And when
Speaker 11: this happened, I remember there was a thread that I
Speaker 11: read and they were basically saying this is why we
Speaker 11: should only sell through US, And I was like, but
Speaker 11: what does that look like?
Speaker 10: How do you do that?
Speaker 11: I guess it's like owning your own store and detreat
Speaker 11: versus and doing more of that versus being in the target.
Speaker 11: How do you guys feel about that conversation of like,
Speaker 11: you know, like even in I don't know, investors or
Speaker 11: kind of the capitalism conversation, I.
Speaker 7: Think that it's important for us to remember that when
Speaker 7: you're growing a brand and and you get to a
Speaker 7: certain level, there's only so much that you can do,
Speaker 7: and you have to bring in investors, and you have
Speaker 7: to bring in different, you know, amounts of money to
Speaker 7: scale to that global and to hit that global brand.
Speaker 7: And when companies decide to sell, you know, I know
Speaker 7: a lot of companies have stuff, but they they also
Speaker 7: bring that money back to the community. They give so
Speaker 7: much money. They funnel all that you know, so much,
Speaker 7: so many scholarships and so many you know, grants.
Speaker 6: And everything back into the community.
Speaker 7: I think it's kind of unfair to put that amount
Speaker 7: of pressure on black brands, because aren't you growing your
Speaker 7: brand for a legacy, for economic growth in your community.
Speaker 7: Aren't you growing your brand so that you can make
Speaker 7: a difference, that you can leave something behind greater than
Speaker 7: you and not the purpose.
Speaker 1: A billion dollars.
Speaker 6: But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 7: Like, and so in other communities, people don't give them
Speaker 7: hell for selling their products. They get celebrated, They get celebrated,
Speaker 7: and I think that's so unfair and and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 6: I don't I don't like.
Speaker 3: It when Rich Dennis so shame moisture. He started the
Speaker 3: New Voices Fund to invest in black women, and some
Speaker 3: of your favorite entrepreneurs were beneficiaries of him selling shame moisture.
Speaker 3: So he invested in lip Bar, he invested in Sloaty Vegan,
Speaker 3: he invested in honey Pot, he invested in Mao Organics,
Speaker 3: invested in Natural Club. Like, literally, almost a lot of
Speaker 3: the pop in black owned businesses right now came as
Speaker 3: a result of that sale. So to your point, it's
Speaker 3: really about what people do with the money when they sell.
Speaker 3: And then I totally understand people being upset like, oh,
Speaker 3: we can't have nothing, because I feel like that's how
Speaker 3: the community feels.
Speaker 9: Like, you know, as soon.
Speaker 3: As a brand grows and we support it, they sell
Speaker 3: to a white company or a white person. And my
Speaker 3: question to you is like, well, who do we sell
Speaker 3: it to? Unfortunately there are no black Procter and Gambles
Speaker 3: or Unilevers because why because we only spend two and
Speaker 3: a half percent of a another point four billion dollars
Speaker 3: with black brands. And so if we were to pull
Speaker 3: our dollars and even if we just only focused on
Speaker 3: beauty and say, you know what, I can commit to
Speaker 3: only shopping black beauty. Clothing might be.
Speaker 9: Harder, shoes might be harder.
Speaker 3: You know, your pantry might be harder, but beauty is
Speaker 3: not that hard. There are undreds of black owned beauty brands,
Speaker 3: but we are still fighting with multinational corporations. People are
Speaker 3: absolutely still buying the Lorels and Mabelings instead of the
Speaker 3: lip Bars and the Dnessa Myricks, and so we would
Speaker 3: love to shop or sell to black people. It's just
Speaker 3: that that's not an option. So what do we do?
Speaker 3: Do we not realize our generational wealth because most Black people,
Speaker 3: our wealth is actually tied in our equity, which means
Speaker 3: that we have to have a liquidation event.
Speaker 9: That's what it's called.
Speaker 3: Liquidation event, is when you sell some of your equity
Speaker 3: so that you can get some of the money. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Melissa Butler of the lip Bar is a millionaire on paper,
Speaker 3: baby on paper, which means that I need to do
Speaker 3: something you actually get liquid So I just I want
Speaker 3: y'all to understand how business works, especially when you fundraise.
Speaker 5: But that's the most difficult thing, right, You're trying to
Speaker 5: explain business to people who don't have no business. So
Speaker 5: I remember when they got mad at Beatrice when she
Speaker 5: sold for what was it three eighty or something like that,
Speaker 5: and she kept the minority stake and was still CEO.
Speaker 5: And I'm just like, I was happy for her, and
Speaker 5: it's like who she don't sell it.
Speaker 7: To until we get to the point where we have
Speaker 7: you know, these people that have grown brands like you know,
Speaker 7: Rich Dennis that can actually help invest in and buy
Speaker 7: you know, companies and all those things. Until we grow
Speaker 7: more of those people, until we have that status, then
Speaker 7: we don't have you know, happen.
Speaker 2: We'll go out and support these ladies.
Speaker 1: Please tell them how How did they support Rucker Routes?
Speaker 7: How do they support the live www dot Rucker Routes
Speaker 7: dot com. You can find us in seven different retailers
Speaker 7: you know, shoes wear, but just support us.
Speaker 9: The lipbar dot com.
Speaker 3: If you're in Detroit, we have our own store, but
Speaker 3: we're also Amazon, Walmart, Target, CBS, and you can follow
Speaker 3: us on all social platforms at the lip bar.
Speaker 5: Any final just messages for the community because y' I
Speaker 5: don't want you, I don't want see y'll tweeting after
Speaker 5: this interview at people just what you need to say.
Speaker 6: No, we love y'all, you know we need you.
Speaker 10: We love you.
Speaker 6: We are here for the fight. We're in it. We
Speaker 6: you know, for us. We're not telling you not forcott,
Speaker 6: but we're telling you to you know, support these brands support.
Speaker 8: We're going on ten year anniversary and we couldn't have
Speaker 8: done it without our consumers and our loyal.
Speaker 4: Customers, So thank you.
Speaker 8: Continue to support Ruckle Routes, follow us on all platforms
Speaker 8: at Rucker Routes and of course Ellen said online rucker
Speaker 8: Routes dot com.
Speaker 7: And we're Amazon, Walmart, Targets, Sally's Belt, JC, Penny Yeah,
Speaker 7: and our website.
Speaker 3: I would just say the lip Bar has always been
Speaker 3: a community based business. It's the community that has got
Speaker 3: us this far. And please know that we will continue
Speaker 3: to invest in the community like we will never turn
Speaker 3: our back. Like I am from the blackest city in America, Detroit, Michigan,
Speaker 3: so just know that I am always putting us first.
Speaker 1: There you have it and try It's the Breakfast Club.
Speaker 1: Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning. The
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club