1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I am excited about 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: today because we're going to talk about culture, and I 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: think a lot of people are going what's changing in 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: the United States. 5 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 2: What happened last week? 6 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: How has that been impacted by the way people feel 7 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: and live every single day? So I know I don't 8 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: know all the answers on that, and I found someone 9 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: who I think does know a lot of the answers, 10 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: has been studying it and can help but walk us 11 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: through that. And his name is Paul Ann Lightner, and 12 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm so happy he's here. He's a cultural theologian who 13 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: writes and speaks on the intersection of religion, culture, philosophy, 14 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: and science. Paul, thank you so much for showing up 15 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: to the show today. 16 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 3: It's great to be with you, Tutor. Thanks for having 17 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 3: me on. 18 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I always look for something a little bit different 19 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: to talk about. I think everybody can kind of get 20 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: mired in the same topics every single day. And I 21 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: saw some of your tweets and I was like, Wow, 22 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: that's really interesting the way you look at the world 23 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: and the way you see how culture has impacted how 24 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: we're living. And I think that if you watched the 25 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: mainstream media every day. You would think we were all 26 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: living one way, but I saw you you were actually 27 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: looking at like people are showing up for top gun, 28 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: people are talking about buying traditional homes and going back 29 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: to traditional lifestyles. 30 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: Tell me about that. 31 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's funny that you mentioned like when people 32 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: are watching traditional media, they feel like they're maybe getting 33 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: a totally different narrative. And you know, probably ten years ago, 34 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: I decided that it wasn't in the best health for 35 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: my soul to daily consume cable news. So as a practice, 36 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 3: I pretty much only turn on cable news once every 37 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 3: four years. 38 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: Are you serious to watch? 39 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, to watch the election results. 40 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: And that is so impressive you'd be surprised. 41 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of people that are doing 42 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: good work in those arenas, but I found for my 43 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 3: soul it was not producing things that I liked. So anyways, 44 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 3: so every four years, I turn on cable news to 45 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: watch the election results. And as I was watching, and 46 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: I survey all the different channels, you know, we'll go 47 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 3: to Fox and CNN and MSNBC, and I try to 48 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 3: take in all the different perspectives. I'm sitting there like 49 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 3: almost shocked at how surprised so many of the political 50 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: talking heads were about the results they were seeing across 51 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: all the election news for that evening, and I really 52 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: wasn't surprised by it, maybe primarily because I don't give 53 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: a lot of attention to that, and I'm far more 54 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 3: interested in what's happening in culture and seeing at maybe 55 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: a different level of analysis, seeing some of the trends 56 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: that are happening as people try to process, like what 57 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: story should guide my life? And I started noticing over 58 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: the last few years, in particular, that some of the 59 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 3: maybe we could say like the cultural tensions between what 60 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: is the best guiding story? I started noticing in Hollywood, 61 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 3: I started noticing in popular podcasts. I started noticing some 62 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 3: shifts that were really interesting to me, and it kind 63 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: of made a lot of sense with some of the 64 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 3: election results, and I was just kind of surprised that 65 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 3: more people didn't see this stuff coming. 66 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: Well, what are those trends? 67 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: Because I noticed that you talked about when we were kids, 68 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: there wasn't really this divide on race or gender. You 69 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: had the Cosby Show, it was like incredibly popular. It 70 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: was this family show. You had what people watch, Spider Man, 71 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: people watched all these different programs together and there was 72 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: not really this focus on how what divided us. It 73 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: was more of what brought us together. 74 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: And I don't know if that's. 75 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: What you were where you were going with that, but 76 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: it made it really made me think, I'm like, man, 77 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, growing up, I didn't feel that that sense 78 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: of ripping apart. It was more of a this is 79 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: what you do to feel good and feel secure and 80 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: feel safe. 81 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's hard to understand this stuff without 82 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: understanding some of like the broader philosophical movements that have 83 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 3: taken place in America. And I think you could go 84 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: all the way back to I mean, you could take 85 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: this all the way back to the Enlightenment, and even 86 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 3: before that the Protestant Reformation, and those are kind of 87 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: the two maybe most important historical philosophical and theological shifts 88 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: in the West that influenced what we would say is 89 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: like traditional American values, and what came with both of those, 90 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: the Prostant Reformation and the Enlightenment, is a pivoting of 91 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: attention from your status in life is determined by what 92 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 3: social class you were born into, to this value for 93 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: what we would say is meritocracy. And this meritocracy. Your 94 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 3: status in life isn't determined by what class you were 95 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 3: born into, but is determined by how virtuous you are, 96 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: how hard you work, and if you play the rules 97 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: of the game the right way and you play the 98 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 3: game well, you can ascend out of the positions you 99 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: were born into. When you think of so many of 100 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 3: the like just really popular in American pop culture stories 101 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: that have this kind of like baked in American revolution tensions, 102 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: you think about like the original og Star Wars, right, 103 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 3: and what do you have this like band of rebels 104 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: rebelling against the empire? And I always foind it interesting 105 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: like most of the Empire had British accents, so you 106 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 3: kind of had this baked in feeling of like American 107 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: revolutionary functions and who was the site of the side 108 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 3: of the light on what was on the side of 109 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: the rebels, And so you've kind of had these stories 110 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 3: that have been a central part of American self understanding 111 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: of ourselves. And I think one of the things that 112 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: happened Tutor was like there's always been really valid critiques 113 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: about whether or not ken someone are the rules of 114 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: the game stacked in such a way that not everybody 115 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: can ascend the latter. Those are valid critiques. I think 116 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: probably you know, maybe fifty sixty years ago you wouldn't 117 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 3: have been able to run for governor. But I think 118 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: that's a very different thing. You know, the critiques even 119 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 3: Martin Luther King Junior had and you know, we think 120 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 3: of his most famous speech that it's the content of 121 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 3: one's character and not the color of their skin. He 122 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 3: was still kind of affirming that, you know, meritocracy works, 123 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 3: but the problem is not everybody is being allowed to 124 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: play the game. Now, I think what happened maybe is 125 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 3: I got a little bit older, and I think we 126 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 3: saw this in pop culture, this shift especially we got 127 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: into the nineties into the two thousands, where there were 128 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 3: these critiques that you know, maybe it's not even just 129 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: an issue of whether or not everybody has been allowed 130 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: to play the game under the same rules, but maybe 131 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: this game just doesn't work at all, And maybe what 132 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 3: we need to have is I've called it like an 133 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: inverted aristocracy. So what we need to do is to 134 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 3: forcibly use power to bring those who we feel are 135 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 3: still not being included in the game feel like they 136 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: can't win in this game at all, and we need 137 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: to actually use our power and influence to kind of 138 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: forcibly lip what we think has always been an aristocracy. 139 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 3: And I think that's where maybe some of the cultural 140 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: shift has happened in what's kind of been like postmodern 141 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: postmodernism has been the native tongue. I'm an older millennial. 142 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: I was born in eighty three, but I think about 143 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: like the younger millennials and gen z and they were 144 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 3: born into a culture in which, you know, postmodernism and 145 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: postmodern critique was their native tongue. And I think there's 146 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 3: a little bit of a rebellion against that that's been happening. 147 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: And I started to see those shifts where it was like, hey, 148 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: you know, maybe people aren't really excited about the idea 149 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 3: of like a forcible inversion of aristocracy, and they still 150 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 3: want to value the meritocracy that was kind of part 151 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: of traditional American values while still affirming like we want 152 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: everybody to be able to play in the game, but 153 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: we're not trying to stack the rules against anybody. 154 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: Well, I think that was actually I that was some 155 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: of what I saw was a switching point for people 156 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: in this last even political election, this last presidential election. 157 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: It's early in twenty three, I started to hear people saying, 158 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, especially Asian people, my son or daughter didn't 159 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: get to go to the university they expected to because 160 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: there was this attempt to move people into those positions 161 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: that didn't have the grades that my son or daughter 162 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: really worked hard for. And suddenly I feel like that's unfair. 163 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: You know, It's like this feeling of if I worked 164 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: hard enough in the United States, I always could. I 165 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: always knew that working hard would get me results. But 166 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: suddenly that changed. Working hard wasn't necessarily what got you results, 167 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: because there was this move to say, well, if you 168 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: fit into this group, then you can move in first. 169 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: And so this person said, when my son didn't get in, 170 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: then my niece went in as at not just an 171 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: Asian American, but an Asian American that fit into this 172 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: other category too, and then they were accepted. And he 173 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: was like, it was a real eye opener for our family. 174 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: And I just wonder if what you were saying about 175 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: when we were growing up, there was not really a 176 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: division on how you looked at race and how you 177 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: looked at And now I'm not saying that the people 178 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: that felt that there was that that wasn't there, but 179 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: it was I think it was moving toward a place 180 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: where it wasn't. 181 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 2: And then that sort of. 182 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: Shifted with this idea of well, we're going to take 183 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: from this group and give to this group, and that 184 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: had never really been the American way, and that felt 185 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: really good for a long time because it felt like, Okay, 186 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: this is the way, and I understand it. I'm not 187 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: saying I don't understand, and I understand the idea of like, 188 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: we can lift people up that couldn't have gotten there 189 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: because they are in a situation in this country where 190 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: they can't get there, and there really is some truth 191 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: to that, but that was probably not the way to 192 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: do it. And in the long term, do you disenfranchised 193 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: another group of people. And that was where it sort 194 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: of all broke down. But maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. 195 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think that's fair to say. And 196 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 3: again that your area of expertise is way more than 197 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: the public policy and the war of politics. I'm just 198 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 3: looking at this. I primarily one of the things I 199 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 3: look at as you know, a theologian of culture, if 200 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: you will. I don't know if there's a better term. 201 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: It's kind of a niche discipline in theology, but one 202 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 3: of the things I most focus on are what we 203 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: would call like the guiding stories that guide culture. And 204 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: so when I see changes in Hollywood. So you know, 205 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: I talked about in my article and in that thread 206 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: on X, I started by reflecting on how surprised many 207 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: people were at how successful Top Gun Maverick was. Now 208 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: Top Gun Maverick was almost just a carbon copy of 209 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 3: the original Top Gun movie. It's something that you know, 210 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 3: especially in twenty twenty two, when it seemed like coming 211 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: out of of the death of George Floyd and I 212 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: live here in the Twin Cities and what happened in 213 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 3: the subsequent protests and the riots, it was a very 214 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: difficult time to be here, and there was a lot 215 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: of really difficult conversations people were having, and it seemed 216 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: like maybe the cultural shift that was about to happen was, well, 217 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: what we need to do is we need to have 218 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: that kind of inverted aristocracy where we are. You know, 219 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 3: some people have used the term like cultural Marxism. I 220 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 3: don't know if that's the best term or not, but 221 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 3: I think what they're trying to get at is a 222 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 3: sense that we need to redistribute, redistribute not just like 223 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: capital that's classic Marxism, but we do need to work 224 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 3: to like somehow redistribute social capital like social status. And 225 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 3: maybe the one of the ways that we do that 226 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 3: is we have movies that focus on people that we 227 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: feel like haven't been included in the meritocracy. But then 228 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: along comes like Top Gun Maverick, and you're like, I 229 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 3: didn't think this thing was going to blow up the 230 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 3: way that it did, and it became in the US, 231 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 3: it was the highest grossing domestic movie of twenty two 232 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: And one of the things I heard from people all 233 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 3: over as I would talk to people about, like, well, 234 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 3: what did you like about it? They kept saying it 235 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 3: was very difficult from the pin but it's just they 236 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 3: kept saying over and over, well, kind of felt like 237 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 3: movies did a long time ago. I didn't feel like 238 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: it was being preached at and there still was, like, 239 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 3: from my vantage point, like still a fairly diverse cast 240 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 3: that maybe wasn't there in the original Top Gun. But 241 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 3: you know, Suitor, I grew up in like an evangelical 242 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: subculture that often tried to create their own Christian movies. 243 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 3: And one of the reasons why somebody of those Christian 244 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 3: movies failed is when you were sitting in your living 245 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: room or in the theater trying to watch them, you 246 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 3: always felt like you were being preached at, and that 247 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 3: just doesn't make for good storytelling. I think a lot 248 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: of people felt like they were being preached at, regardless 249 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 3: of whether or not it was a good story or not. 250 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 3: It felt like the stories were veered in this direction 251 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 3: of we need to communicate in particular philosophical and oftentimes 252 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: like political agenda. And then you take Top Gun, which 253 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: is just a straight up meritocracy, you know, modernist hero film, 254 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 3: which just tapped into a lot of that kind of 255 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: traditional American values, and all of a sudden, people are like, 256 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: this is great. I think of another movie. I didn't 257 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 3: cover this in the Thread, but I think in a 258 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: lot of ways the Twisters sequel. Yeah, some of those 259 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 3: same ingredients to it. And I think anybody that watched 260 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 3: that was just like, huh. I'm not saying they were 261 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: like Oscar Worthy, you. 262 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: Know, I think the different You went there and you 263 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: saw those movies and they entertained you, and it was 264 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: purely about entertainment and excitement, and you felt that adrenaline 265 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: rush that we used to feel in movies, And I 266 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: think you're right. You didn't feel like you went out 267 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: and you were shamed about something. But I think that 268 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: that has been sort of a trend in Hollywood lately, 269 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: is to go, Okay, what can we teach them in 270 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: this movie so that the American people will become more tolerant? 271 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 2: Like how can we the American people? 272 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: And I think we've even seen this in this latest election, 273 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: where it was a very strange situation where you had 274 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: a candidate that didn't have the full time to run, 275 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: and then Hollywood came out and was like, well, create 276 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: this and it felt and I think that was sort 277 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: of that same rejection of these new movies was hey, 278 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: don't tell me this, don't preach to me. I want 279 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: you like I'm used to you entertaining me. 280 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: And people have stepped away from movies, you know. 281 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean after COVID, the theaters really struggled to get 282 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: back on track. 283 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: But it's also been like this. 284 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: Influx of you've got streaming, you've got movies, but they're 285 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: all a similar theme. Stay tuned for more with Paul 286 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: and Lightner after this. But first let me tell you 287 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: about my partners at Patriot Mobile. 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Get a free month when 304 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: you use the offer code tutor. Don't get folded by 305 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: other providers pretending to share your values or having the 306 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: same coverage they don't and they can't. You need to 307 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: switch today. It's the only Christian conservative mobile provider, Patriot 308 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: Mobile stick around. We'll be back with more after this. 309 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but there 310 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: was this movie that came out and it was about 311 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: It was about two men who fell in love and 312 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: the struggles of their relationship, and it didn't do well 313 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: and people went crazy. Hollywood went crazy and said this 314 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: was you know, this is because the American people are bigoted. 315 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: And it was very interesting to me because one of 316 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: my gay friends came to me and he was like, 317 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny that Hollywood would make this movie 318 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: because as a gay man, like, I'm just like any 319 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: other man. I'm not really into the the rom com like, 320 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: that's not my thing. I think that that really really 321 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: appeals to the average woman. 322 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: And your wife. 323 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: Your wife wants to take you there, but my husband 324 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: and I we want to go see an action movie. 325 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: He's like, I just think that people are overreacting to 326 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: this is something bigoted. But he's like, I didn't go 327 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: see it an you know. 328 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think deep down the thing that I 329 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: think would be most helpful for people to understand behind, 330 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 3: you know, the tensions of the culture war, which do 331 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: make themselves manifest in the political domain, There's no doubt 332 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 3: about that. But what I would argue is that the 333 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 3: political is downstream of culture, and it's downstream of philosophy, 334 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: and I'd even say it's downstream of theology and religion. 335 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: So I think one of the things that would be 336 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: most helpful people understand is, like I think Americans, we 337 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 3: are inherently allergic to anything that whiffs of aristocracy. And 338 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 3: so when it seems like maybe whether it's on cable 339 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: news or whether it's from Hollywood, or whoever the case 340 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 3: may be, if it feels like the class or classes 341 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 3: above you are trying to tell you what to think. 342 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 3: I just think historically Americans have not responded well to that, 343 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 3: and that's kind of deep in our American mythos, that's 344 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: deep in our guiding story, and I think it's very 345 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: very difficult to challenge that without having some sort of 346 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 3: significant backlash as a result. 347 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, because I would agree 348 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: with you. I think that most people would say that 349 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: politics as downstream of culture. And I think that even 350 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: a Ruth Bader Ginsburg would say that the only reason 351 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: she was able to make the strides that she was 352 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: able to make in women's rights. And honestly, if it 353 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: weren't for her, would I have had that chance to 354 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: run for governor? 355 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 2: As you said, I don't believe. 356 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: So, you know, and I think she would say that 357 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: that was also because culture had changed, and that allowed 358 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: people to see differently how law should change as well 359 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: to adjust to culture. 360 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: But what you're saying is. 361 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: That you've seen almost like a switchback though to people saying, well, 362 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: I do want some of those traditions to come back. 363 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: And I think it was actually on your Twitter where 364 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: I saw someone posting like, we cannot let go of 365 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: that Halloween knight of trigger treating that inherent trust of 366 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: going door to door. There are certain traditions that it 367 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: seems like we've almost been pushed back into and saying, wait, 368 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm actually going to hang on to this one, 369 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: and I want there to be some of that left. 370 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: What do you think is the culture behind that, because 371 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: it seems like historically it's always been a next step, 372 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: a pushing to the next step of something more progressive 373 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: and more accepting, but it and not that being traditional 374 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: is not accepting, but it does seem like there is 375 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: this will wait a minute. I want to preserve that 376 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: American family and those values. What is moving that to 377 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: that direction? 378 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 3: Well, again, I think thinking about it at the maybe 379 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 3: from my vantage point, deeper level of exploring philosophy and 380 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 3: theology ends up providing the most amount of light on 381 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 3: this shift. I think what's happening is if postmodernism was 382 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 3: your native tongue, and at the core of postmodernism is 383 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 3: a deconstructive tendency, It's a critique tendency. So you're using 384 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: irony all the time, hyper ironic storytelling, irony, even in communication. 385 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: I don't know how many of my friends that are 386 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 3: my age or younger. I kind of got to a 387 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: point in my twenties where I felt like I could 388 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 3: and even have an open conversation where we were sharing 389 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: anything sincere because it felt like all you had in 390 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: your vocabulary was irony, irony, irony, irony, and it's in 391 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 3: service of critique. And so when you've done nothing but 392 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 3: critique the past, and perhaps one of the narratives that 393 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: I think we have wrongly believed is that progress is 394 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 3: moving in any direction as long as it's away from 395 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: the past. And so if we assume that progress is 396 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 3: an inherent good, and we think that that inherent good 397 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 3: moves us away from received wisdom and received tradition, I 398 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: think a lot of people that that was their native 399 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: tongue are rebelling against that. They're looking for the antithesis 400 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 3: to that. Because you can't live in a complete vacuum 401 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 3: of story. You can't live with only the critique of 402 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 3: guiding stories. You have to actually find a story. And 403 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 3: that's why some philosophers have been talking about the West 404 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 3: entering into maybe a new phase that might be called metamodernism. 405 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: So in metamodernism, you are taking maybe some of the 406 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: critiques of postmodernism, and you're going, all right, I get 407 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 3: the irony. I get that I have to show that 408 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 3: I'm living in a story. I get that I have 409 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 3: to show that I have cultural bias. But I also 410 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 3: really need to find meaning in my life. And in 411 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 3: the absence of meaning, that's what makes us different from 412 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 3: all the other species on the planet. You know, I 413 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 3: don't have a dog, but I hear from many dog 414 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 3: owners that if you feed them, you walk them, they're 415 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 3: pretty happy. They're not asking you about do I have 416 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 3: any other meaning in life? 417 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: Right? 418 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: But humans we are searching for meaning. And so if 419 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: we've lived in a story that's always been about the 420 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 3: critique of meaning, undercutting previous generations notions of truth, goodness, 421 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 3: and beauty, what will inevitably happen is people can't live 422 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 3: in the absence of story, so they're going to go 423 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 3: looking for that. And I think a lot of people 424 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 3: are really interested in thinking about, like, well, what did 425 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 3: my grandparents and my great grandparents have that maybe I'm 426 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: missing out on. And so we do see a lot 427 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 3: of people, you know, it feels right now like it 428 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 3: might be a niche movement, but I see a lot 429 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 3: of people gen z that are younger than me that 430 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 3: are like, hey, we actually want to go to like 431 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 3: Latin mass Like really wow, you know, like why That's. 432 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: What I was wondering. How does faith come into this? 433 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: Because I do think that there is this this longing 434 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: for history, and I think that we inherently know that 435 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: history guides our future and history guides what the decisions 436 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: that we make. And there has been it seemingly a 437 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: cultural movement to say forget about history, just don't look 438 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: at history and there's always this drawback to because history 439 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: is knowledge, right, and we inherently want knowledge. We want 440 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: to know what we should do, We want guidance. But 441 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: how does that drive people back to faith? Because I 442 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: think that's one of the shifts that we even saw 443 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: in Michigan. Whether it is your Christian faith or your 444 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: Muslim faith or your Jewish faith, there seems to be 445 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: this desire to say, no, no, we are going to 446 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: hang on to this. You will not take this from 447 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: us totally. 448 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 3: And you know, I was born and raised in Michigan. 449 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 3: I live here in the Twin Cities now, but I 450 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 3: remember playing sports with Muslim friends and there was actually, 451 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 3: though we clearly had major differences theologically, there's no like, 452 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: we're not trying to say every faith is saying essentially 453 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 3: the same thing. That's that's perennialism, that's not. But there 454 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 3: was a lot of overlap and values where my parents 455 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 3: felt quite comfortable with dropping me off at a basketball 456 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 3: teammate who was a Muslim and Muslim family, and there 457 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 3: was this shared sense of hey, you know, there's enough 458 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: overlap in values there where we can we can share something. 459 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: I think to get to your question about why, maybe 460 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 3: there is at least a movement among young some young people, 461 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 3: and I see this kind of like underneath the surface. 462 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 3: You had like the old Saturday Night Live vanguard of media, right, 463 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 3: which I think many were trying to use to communicate 464 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 3: political ideology one team. But then you also have like 465 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 3: the kind of more online spaces. And I think if 466 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 3: you were a digital native, the online space is are 467 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 3: your native tongue. It's not the traditional legacy media. And 468 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 3: so what I see when I survey what's happening in 469 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: kind of these online spaces, I see a lot of 470 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 3: young people that are going, we've lived with nothing but destabilization, 471 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 3: destabilization of every worldview. So if you've been raised your 472 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 3: entire life in thinking that every story is simply masking 473 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 3: a play for power, at some point, now this is 474 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 3: going to feel a little meta. At some point you 475 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 3: begin to question, well, maybe that story, If you're telling 476 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 3: me every story is masking a play for power, well 477 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 3: what about that story in and of itself? I can't 478 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 3: live with incessant chaos and destabilization. So maybe one of 479 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: the things that they we return to is the traditions 480 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 3: of our parents and our grandparents and our great grandparents, 481 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 3: and I don't think young people are going into those 482 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: completely naive and going like, oh, this is totally perfect. 483 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: What they're saying is I can't live in that vacuum 484 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 3: of story, So I need to find a story that 485 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: affirms that there is truth, goodness and beauty. And so 486 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: a lot of young people may be returning to, you know, 487 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 3: going to Latin Mass. They may come to an old, 488 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: you know, free church like the one my family attends 489 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 3: and I serve in. They may turn to Eastern Orthodoctually. 490 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 3: There may be you know, Muslims living in you know, 491 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 3: the dearborn in Detroit area who maybe were just nominally 492 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 3: that and they feel like, hey, I need to like 493 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 3: re explore the roots of my own faith in tradition. 494 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 3: I think it's a quest to find some sense of 495 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 3: stability and meaning in a world that feels like it's 496 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 3: filled with nothing but deconstruction, chaos, and the absence of meaning. 497 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: I've got more coming up with Paul and Lightner after this, 498 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: but first let me tell you about IFCJ. The International 499 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: Fellowship of Christians and Jews, wishes you a blessed Thanksgiving 500 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: as you gather with your families, grateful for the blessings 501 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: that God has given all of us. But let's remember 502 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,959 Speaker 1: those who are facing unbelievable hardship in need of food, fellowship, 503 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: and hope. That includes the people of Israel, who are 504 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: threatened daily by attacks from the enemy on all sides. 505 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: And during these hard times, Israelis are thankful to the 506 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: Fellowship for food and basic assistance, truly life saving aid, 507 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: when the rest of the world seems to have turned 508 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: its back on them. Your gift of twenty five dollars 509 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: this season will help provide a food box to an 510 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: elderly Jew or a Jewish family who's suffering in desperate need. 511 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: A gift of one hundred dollars will help provide four 512 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: of these life saving food boxes this Thanksgiving. Please consider 513 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: standing with Israel and the Jewish people. Go to support 514 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: IFCJ dot org to make a gift right now that 515 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: support IFCJ dot org, or you can call. The number 516 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: is eight eight eight. We're eight eight IFCJ again. That's 517 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: eight eight eight four eight eight four three two five. 518 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,479 Speaker 1: Now stay tuned. We've got more for you after this. 519 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: So when you say a digital native, are you saying 520 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: like these are people who grew up where they are 521 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: suddenly getting information from all these sources. I mean, I 522 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: know we're getting information from social media, but then in 523 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: this latest last few weeks of that campaign, I think 524 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: we saw that, Wow, people are really going to spaces 525 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: like podcasts and they're searching for answers and there's someone 526 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: out there that's going to have some answer, but maybe 527 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: they're searching for there seems to be a longing. There 528 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: seems to be something that they feel they're missing. 529 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just think it's really interesting. There's a 530 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 3: there seems to be whether it's a generational gap, whether 531 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 3: it's like a class gap, I don't know what it is, 532 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: but there does seem to be a huge golf between 533 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 3: you know. Again, the one night I turned on cable 534 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 3: news and I hear people talking about a guy that's 535 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 3: that spoke at the Madison Square Garden rally for Donald 536 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 3: Trump and he talked about Puerto Rico in a way 537 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: that some people found offensive and they didn't know who 538 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 3: the guy was, And I'm like, you don't know who 539 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 3: Tony Inchcliff is. He's like one of the top comedian 540 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 3: podcasters out there, like his Kill Tony Show is the 541 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: most popular live show on YouTube as far as I know. 542 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 3: You know, he did the Tom Brady roast on Netflix. Like, 543 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 3: I'm just surprised that there does seem to be a 544 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 3: gap there now if you're digital native. What I mean 545 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: by digital native is I was an elderly millennial. I 546 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 3: grew up in a time where there wasn't the Internet. 547 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 3: We didn't have a computer in my house till I 548 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 3: was in college. My kids are you know, my oldest 549 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: ones or gen z. They've known the Internet and podcasting 550 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 3: and streaming their entire life. Like they speak in memes, 551 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 3: like I don't even understand the things that they're saying 552 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: because it's this codified language that's completely don't know if 553 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: they've ever watched Saturday Night Live before. I mean maybe 554 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: I showed them an old Chris Farley clip once or 555 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 3: twice on YouTube, but that's not true. True. 556 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: They don't watch TV at all. 557 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean they are you know, My girls were telling 558 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: me about this family and they they are very pro 559 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: life family. And the mom was talking about how beautiful 560 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: was that the baby, how the baby was growing, and 561 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: they're going through all this, and I think it's interesting 562 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: because it's not something I would have ever seen growing 563 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: up and we think that they live in this world 564 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: where they're being bombarded with messages that are not that, 565 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: and yet here they are. 566 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: They're like, Mom, this is amazing. 567 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: We follow these people. They're amazing, and I'm like, they 568 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: found that on their own. Yeah. 569 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 3: You know what else is really cool about this? I 570 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 3: notice it with my kids too, Tutor, and it actually 571 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 3: I know a lot of people, you know, are always 572 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: looking at the next generation all the things they're concerned about. 573 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 3: One of the things I see in my kids generation 574 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: and even older older gen Z people, is there is 575 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 3: this like desire for what I what we could call 576 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 3: the wholesome. They're looking for like wholesome again, and I 577 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: think that's attached to the idea they're looking for tradition, stability, 578 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 3: and I see the things that you know, I just 579 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 3: saw the other night that there were like the Costco guys. 580 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 3: I don't know who the Costco guys are, but my 581 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 3: kids tell me about them, and they ended up on 582 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: Jimmy Fallon And what do they do. They just have 583 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: videos where they go into Costco and they make food reviews. 584 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 3: And you know, that seems like the kind of thing 585 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 3: in the nineties that if that was on TV, me 586 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 3: and my friends would have totally made fun of. We 587 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 3: would have been really really cynical about. But they're just wholesome. 588 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 3: Like I watched them and I go, man, it's just 589 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 3: a dad and his son and they have this catchphrase. 590 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: And my kids generation they're like I think, I think 591 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 3: they're just exhausted by the cynicism, and so they're looking 592 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 3: for wholesome. They're looking for stability. They want to feel 593 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 3: positive again, they want to feel this sense of sincerity again. 594 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: You know, I've called it before like embracing the cringe 595 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: when everything your entire life you've been worried about am 596 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 3: I doing something cringe or not cringe at school? Well, 597 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 3: if I post something online that's cringe, that thing's going 598 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 3: to go viral. It's not that I just get You know, 599 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 3: I was in high school and you did something stupid. 600 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 3: You maybe got fun of at school about it, but 601 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 3: it couldn't ruin your entire life. So living with that 602 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 3: fear of the cringe your entire life, I think you 603 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: kind of get to the point where're like, I'm tired 604 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 3: of it. I'm going to embrace the cringe. I'm looking 605 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 3: for wholesome. I'm looking for tradition. I'm looking for stability. 606 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 3: I'm looking to feel something positive and good again. 607 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 1: It's funny because I mean, I've really enjoyed hearing him 608 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: about this, because I think even Friday night, my girls 609 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: were watching some YouTube show and my mom and I 610 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: are sitting there watching this with them, and it's this 611 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: guy who travels around he does all these reviews, and 612 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: it was just a cute show. And my mom said, 613 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: wait a minute, Well, she had apparently watched it with 614 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: him last week, She said, didn't he wasn't this. 615 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 2: Kid married last weekend? 616 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: They go, oh, yeah, he's married and his wife is 617 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: at home with the dog right now. But they're very 618 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: they have this great relationship. And she said he looks 619 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: like he's like twelve. And my oldest daughter was like, no, mom, 620 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: he's twenty six. 621 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 2: But twenty six today is pretty young to be married, 622 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 2: you know. 623 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: And they were and they were all about it, and 624 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: I thought, as you're saying this, I thought back to that, 625 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, it's interesting because they're bombarded 626 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: with you have to accept this, and you have to 627 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: accept this, and you have to accept this as what 628 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,719 Speaker 1: life is, and yet they sought out what they really 629 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: do think is beauty and commitment and love. And I 630 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: didn't guide them there at all. And so maybe that 631 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: is how culture is changing. And all these times, like 632 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: I think old people like me were like, oh, what 633 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: is all this stuff? They're watching it on you You know, 634 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: you have to be careful that your kids are going 635 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: to get something horrible on YouTube. And I'm not saying 636 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: that you don't, but it's funny to think from your perspective, 637 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: some of them are seeking out what we would have 638 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: wanted to see them seek out anyway. 639 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 3: I know it's it's again, I think it's just because 640 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: they're so they've been so bombarded with the cynicism that 641 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: that's not our native tongue. That's not like we don't 642 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 3: want to be inherently cynical and jaded and depressed our 643 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 3: entire lives. That's not what's in us. We go searching 644 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 3: for that, I understand. Like again, like you mentioned before, 645 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 3: I'm sympathetic to critiques. I'm sympathetic. I'm not like making 646 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 3: a postmodern boogeyman either. There were relevant critiques from postmodern 647 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: postcolonial philosophers and writers. You know, we do need to 648 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 3: be have our blind spots checked and we do have 649 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 3: blind spots, and it's like, but what I think is 650 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 3: the major difference is, you know, again, we could call 651 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 3: it metamodernism. It's the idea that I'm moving beyond the cynicism. 652 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 3: I'm going through cynicism, going through the irony to somehow 653 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: get at saying something sincere again. And I'm really encouraged 654 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 3: by that movement that does seem to be happening, and 655 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: it does seem really positive, and I do hope there 656 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 3: are ways in which, like this generation does learn from 657 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 3: the pitfalls of the past. But the biggest difference to me, tutor, 658 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 3: is are we committed to constantly reforming, holding on to 659 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 3: the inherited wisdom that is true, good, and beautiful and 660 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 3: looking to reform those things that aren't in harmony with truth, 661 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 3: goodness and beauty, versus feeling like, does every generation have 662 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 3: to tear it down to the studs and start over 663 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 3: that is not good. We don't need to tear down 664 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 3: every bit of inherited wisdom. We don't need to get 665 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 3: rid of math and history. We don't need to stop 666 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 3: learning about Aristotle and Plato or learning about the Biblical stories. 667 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 3: Whether or not you are practicing Christian or any sort 668 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 3: of religion. Like, we don't need to tear it down 669 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 3: to the studs to start over with each successive generation, 670 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 3: but we do need to hold on to what's good 671 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 3: and to continue to reform. And I'm optimistic in what 672 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 3: I say in younger generations that there's maybe an impulse 673 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 3: there to hold on to the good, to treasure it, 674 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 3: to value it, to maybe reassess some things that they 675 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 3: were told is like, you know, this was worthless or 676 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 3: this was totally oppressive, and to start to realize, yeah, yeah, 677 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 3: there are some like churches out there. You know, I'm 678 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 3: a lifelong Christian tutor, and I've been in ministry and 679 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 3: things like that for close to twenty years, and I 680 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 3: have seen hard things that happen and difficult and terrible 681 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 3: things that happen in those spaces. But the last I looked, 682 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: I believe they are like some three hundred thousand Christian 683 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 3: congregations out there. And even if you were to hear 684 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 3: a thousand horror stories, which would be really, really terrible, 685 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean we throw out the entire institution of 686 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 3: going to church because there has been terrible things that happen. 687 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 3: I'm of the opinion that the goal then would be, well, 688 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 3: let's retain what's good, let's reform, and I think that 689 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 3: would be the thing. I'm optimistic about it, regardless of 690 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 3: people's political perspectives on this. Maybe returning to this point 691 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: of going, hey, yeah, there is some good in this story, 692 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 3: and I want to cling to it, and let's just 693 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 3: work to keep reforming those things in culture which do 694 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 3: lead to people suffering and do lead to injustice. 695 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I love this because I think that 696 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: this is a really important message in this moment. I 697 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of people right now that 698 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: are feeling depressed and feeling anxious and not. 699 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 2: Sure what the future holds. 700 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: But this idea that there is a longing for togetherness, 701 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I 702 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: feel like what you're saying is there's a longing for 703 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: people to come back together. And for too long, I 704 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: think it's been that we have been disconnected, and we've 705 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: been able to type at each other and yell at 706 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: each other, but there's like this traditional feeling of getting together, 707 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: seeing each other, having relationships, being in relationship is important 708 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: in life, and I think that's what so many people 709 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: have lost and no relationships is very It's just it's 710 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,839 Speaker 1: very hard. It darkens your soul. I mean, it takes 711 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: away from you. And that's where I think that we 712 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: have lost a lot of that historical culture that we've 713 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: had in the United States. 714 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 2: So I'm really excited to hear that you've seen this. 715 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: I mean, and as you say it, I'm like, wow, 716 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: I can actually see this with my own kids. So 717 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure people listening are saying the same thing. You 718 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: have your own podcast, is that right, Yeah, tell us 719 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah. 720 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 3: It's called Deep Talks, and I've been running it for 721 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 3: about seven years now, six seven years, and the focus 722 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 3: of it is conversations just like we're having here, which 723 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 3: is exploring the intersection of religion and culture, philosophy and science. 724 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 3: And I admit where I come from, so people don't 725 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 3: come in and think like, oh, what is this guy from. 726 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 3: I come from a historic Christian perspective and vantage point. 727 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 3: You know, I have a master's in Christian thoughts, So 728 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 3: that's where I come from. But I invite anybody to 729 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 3: the nuanced in the charitable dialogue we have, So we'll 730 00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:02,439 Speaker 3: have a range of scientists, authors, theologians on and yeah, 731 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 3: and it's really focused on the shared endeavor that we 732 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 3: all have, which is to find and make meaning in 733 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 3: the world. And so I want to affirm that I 734 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 3: want to offer from my vantage point and invite people 735 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 3: into a deep conversation around those things. 736 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,439 Speaker 2: Wonderful. I love it. So we will have to check 737 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 2: that out. Where can people find it? 738 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 3: Oh, it's you know, you can go to Spotify, Apple 739 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 3: or wherever, wherever you find it. 740 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's called Deep Talks. 741 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 3: Yep, Deep Talks. Yeah. 742 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 2: Awesome. 743 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: Paul and Lightner, thank you so much for coming. 744 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Tutor, absolutely, and. 745 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: Thank you all for joining us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 746 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: As always, for this episode and others, go to Tutor 747 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: Dixon podcast dot com or the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 748 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time. 749 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 2: Have a blessing.