1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. Growing up in the 2 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: rural South, you spend quite a bit of time out 3 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: in the woods. I come from a family that like 4 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: to hunt, and I'm not talking necessarily for a big game. 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: I'm talking about for survival. My grandfather I swear that 6 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: man never met a squirrel he wouldn't eat. And I 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: know that's for some folks that are listening to this, 8 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: they might find that. I don't know, I don't know 9 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: if the word were pugnant fits in there, but some 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: people would not want to do that. Some people call 11 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: the squirrels tree rats. But man would take a squirrel 12 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: and rice any day over chicken and rice, I think. 13 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: But you know, when you're out in the woods, many 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: times you not only appreciate the beauty, but you also 15 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: appreciate the things that people do out there that you 16 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: would otherwise prefer that they not do. And you know, 17 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: one of the biggest things is dumping garbage and dumping 18 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: old appliances. You come across those sorts of things many times, 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: and it really does detract from the beauty of nature. 20 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: But when you're out in the woods and you're doing 21 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: a job as a road crew, and you're working for 22 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: local government, you have to go out and identify illegal 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: dumping sites, and that happens with great frequency, and you know, 24 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: people want these things removed because they're dangerous. You don't 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: know what people are throwing away. But in the case 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss, a road crew found one of 27 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: the most precious things in the world that some one 28 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: had treated like garbage and essentially tossed a little angel 29 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: away and abandoned her out in the middle of a lonely, 30 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: lonely stretch of road in the forest. I'm Joseph Scott 31 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Back. I hate the story. 32 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: I hate this. I'd absolutely detested I you know, I 33 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: cover so many cases with a lot of other folks, 34 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: and the adults those cases are, they're tough, many of 35 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: them are. But when I find cases, in particular where 36 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: somebody takes a precious little child and they treat them 37 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: like garbage and they throw them away, probably many times 38 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: after long periods of abuse and those sorts of things, 39 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: it breaks my heart because I know how many people 40 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: out there would love to have a child and have 41 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: struggled for years and years to have a child. And 42 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: I've often said, and I'd get angry many times, even 43 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: when I was an investigator. I remember having this discussion 44 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: with my wife Kim. I'd come home and I'd be 45 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: in tears. 46 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: I really would. 47 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: After working child deaks and I would say, why, you know, 48 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: why didn't they just bring them to me? They no 49 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: questions asked, just bring them to our doorstep. 50 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: This investigation began on December twenty first, nineteen eighty eight. 51 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: Aware County, Georgia road crew comes across an illegal dumping 52 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: area just off the road. In that dump area, the 53 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: crew finds a console TV. Inside the TV is a suitcase. Now, 54 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 3: as the road crew picks up the suitcase, it's heavier 55 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: than it should be if it just had clothes and 56 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 3: toiletries in it, so they opened it up. They find 57 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: the lifelow body of a small girl encased in concrete. 58 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: Ware County Sheriff's office is called and they call for 59 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 3: help from the GBI. The GBI medical examiner determines the 60 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: death as a homicide, but the cause of death is undetermined. 61 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: There was one piece of evidence found near the console 62 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: TV that suggests a connection to Albany, Georgia, nearly one 63 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 3: hundred miles away. Now the child in the cement is 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 3: not identified and becomes known as Ware Counties Baby Jane Doe. 65 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: That investigation that began on December twenty first, nineteen eighty eight, 66 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 3: continues for the next thirty five years. Finally, in twenty 67 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 3: twenty two, a local TV station does a report on 68 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: the anniversary of the day Baby Jane Doe was found. 69 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 3: They update the public on what little details they have, 70 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 3: and they offer up a five thousand dollars reward for 71 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 3: information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person 72 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: or persons that threw Baby Jane Doe away like garbage. 73 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 3: A viewer watching the broadcast calls in a tip that 74 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: leads investigators to determine Baby Jane Doe is actually Kenyatta Odom, 75 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: a five year old line girl they called Kiki because 76 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: a woman was watching the news and saw this report 77 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 3: on the anniversary and said, I think I know who 78 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: that is. She never believed the story that her friend 79 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 3: told her about five year old Kiki. The mother had 80 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: said the Kiki had moved and was living with her father. 81 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: The neighbor didn't believe the story. Once you have identified 82 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 3: this child, now it's time to find out who is 83 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: the person that did this to this child, and why 84 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 3: was nobody looking for her? 85 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: The idea that you when you're talking about in casing something, 86 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, in concrete, this rises to a level of 87 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: people really thinking about this, putting thought into this, because 88 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: what do you have to do. Well, first off, you 89 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: have to prep the concrete, you know, you just don't 90 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: go out and buy it wet. You have to prep 91 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: the concret in order to utilize it to its fullest potential. 92 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: Then you have to have something to contain set concrete in. 93 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: And obviously you've got to have placement for the body. 94 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: And why are you going about doing it this way? 95 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand, and I can only imagine 96 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: at the time. And this discovery occurred in arguably one 97 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: of the most isolated and rural areas in the state 98 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: of Georgia, down in southwest Georgia, in a town called 99 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: Millwood that's actually in Ware County, Georgia, and very very rural, isolated. 100 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: Lots of dirt roads to go down, lots of thickly 101 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: forested areas to go down, and there's there's no life 102 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: in that area. And when I say life, i'm talking 103 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: about you know, you don't have a bunch of houses 104 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: around there. It it smacks as somebody that wanted to 105 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: get as far away with these remains and discard them. 106 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: And I guess their thought was was that if if 107 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: you go to an illegal dumping site, no one's gonna 108 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: pay any attention to it. But you know, there's you. 109 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: You never count on the unknown, you know, you because 110 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: you can't see that, you know. I think if you're 111 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: a perpetrator, you can't think that, oh well, there might 112 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: be a road crew that comes by, and I don't 113 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: know about you. I've got I've got a couple of 114 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: people that will roll by our house where we live, 115 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: and they show up in pickup trucks. And if you've dumped, 116 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, some kind of something from your home, like 117 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh, it's furniture or maybe a piece of 118 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: furniture you won't just hauled off or whatever. They're gonna 119 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: stop and they're gonna look at it, you know, before 120 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: the truck ever hauls it away, because they might they 121 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: might be able to source it in a different way, 122 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: or you know, collect it and fix it up or 123 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: something like that. And those people exist, and they're out 124 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: there and they're riding around, and I think that most 125 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: people that perpetrate such a horrible crime like we're talking 126 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: about today, they don't count on that. Their idea, I think, 127 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: is to get as much distance between themselves and the 128 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: corpus DELECTI, because that is the body of evidence there. 129 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, I was just having this discussion day 130 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: with my students and I teach a medical legal death 131 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: investigation class at JSU, and I ask them, my class 132 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: is to envision when we're working a case, and you're 133 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: working a death case, obviously, envision the body as being 134 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: the hub of a wagon wheel, and everything else radiates 135 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: out from it, all other bits of evidence and you know, 136 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: things like that. But the body is a central piece 137 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: of evidence here, and you know, you never know how 138 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: far those kind of radial spokes are going to extend 139 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: out from a you know, you've got this central little 140 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: body that's there, encased in cement or concrete, and you think, wow, 141 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: you know, what was our point of origin? You know, 142 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: where did she come from? 143 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: We know the body was found on December twenty first, 144 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight, but we don't know when the child 145 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: was placed in that location. 146 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: You made a point earlier about this this this witness, 147 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: this friend so called of the family, and she asked 148 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: the mother about you know, where the child is. And 149 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: as investigators, you have to go back to that last 150 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: point of contact because that might be Look, we're talking 151 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: about a little child. Many people, you know, don't don't 152 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: think about the whereabouts of a child. If you don't 153 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: have a closely knit family, for instance, or you're really 154 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: tied in with your neighbors, that might that one person 155 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: and now it's playing out right here before us, that 156 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: one person has that recall and they might be the 157 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: only person to ever remembered this child. So you the 158 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: point that I think that needs to be made here 159 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: is that how do we know how long this child 160 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: had been deceased or how long had she been missing 161 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: before someone actually put eyes on this location in nineteen 162 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: eighty eight, which you know, you go back to the 163 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: fog of toime. 164 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: Man. 165 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: I don't know about you. I can't remember nineteen eighty eight. 166 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: I have no way of recall relative to that because 167 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: so much stuff my memory is so layered now since 168 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: that period of time in my life. 169 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: A lot of the eighties are like that for me. 170 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: But I'm thinking when the body was labeled as baby 171 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: Jane Doe found in cement inside a suitcase inside a 172 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 3: television console in illegal dump area. But Joe, could you 173 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 3: determine right then about how long the child had been dead? 174 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that to a certain degree you could. 175 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: And this is a painstaking process, Dave, when you have 176 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: an encasement like this, and I've worked I think maybe 177 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: two over the course of my career. First off, just 178 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: from a logistics standpoint, I actually worked one where we 179 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: had a remain that was in a block of concrete. 180 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: And this is not something that you're not just going 181 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: to put it into the back of the Corners van 182 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: and haul it down to the County morgue. It logistically 183 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: it's a nightmare, and how are you going to process it, 184 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: move it? About that sort of thing. So I think 185 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: that just because the body is encased, I think that 186 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: it's really important for people to understand there's no guarantee 187 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to tell specifically how 188 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: long they've been in there, because when you encase a 189 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: dead body in concrete or maybe even something else like 190 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: a suitcase, you're not just encasing the body, but you're 191 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: encasing everything. Even at a microbial level that inhabits that 192 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: same environment with that body, and there's no telling what 193 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: you're going to find when you finally chip it all 194 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: the way. Just because you have a body that is 195 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: encased in concrete doesn't mean that the body is in 196 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: total encasing concrete. So what I mean by that is 197 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: that depending upon the skill level, the resources, the tools, 198 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: the experience that a perpetrator might have relative to using 199 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: some kind of medium like concrete, not everything that's going 200 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: to be covered up. Because I think a big question 201 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: that people would ask is, for instance, in Kenyati's case, 202 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: you got a suitcase, Yes, you've got concrete, but how 203 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: do you know that there's a body in concrete. Well, 204 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: there's no guarantee that the encasement itself completely obscures everything 205 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: you might have. And forgive me for saying this, elements 206 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: of the body that are extruding from that block of concrete. 207 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: There might be hair, there might be clothing, there could 208 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: even be an appendage that's hanging out from there, Dave. 209 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: So there's no guarantee that everything's going to be obscure. 210 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 3: We don't know how the child died or we don't 211 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: have any of that information, and thirty five years later, 212 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 3: it's a little more blerry. 213 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 2: So where would you go with the body like that? 214 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: That's an excellent question. Let me go back to my 215 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: earlier comment about the body that's in like a huge 216 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: block of concrete. That's something that on site that you're 217 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: going to have to free the body up from that location. 218 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: But you're talking about the body of a small child, 219 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: a five year old, all right, this is portable. So 220 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: what would have happened is that the body in total, 221 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: contained within the suitcase would have been transported to the 222 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: local forensic science center. And there's a couple in Georgia 223 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: that in the GBI Georgia Bureau of Investigation and State 224 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner would have handled this case. There used to 225 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: be a lab down in a town called Moultrie, which 226 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: is in far south Georgia. That would be my big 227 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: guess at this point in time that the body would 228 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: be taken to a location like that. But here's here's 229 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: the the interesting piece to this is that when you 230 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: show up to a morgue, we have instruments within the 231 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: morgue where we're working with soft tissue and bone. We 232 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: don't have construction tools, all right, So how do you, 233 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: how do you free a body up, you know, that's 234 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: encased in cement. And here's the other thing, and this 235 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: is a big piece to this. If you know that 236 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: there is a body contained within it, first thing you're 237 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: gonna need to do is take X rays and you 238 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: have to be able to account for the density of 239 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: the concrete. You know, where are you going to be 240 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: able to see, if anything when you X ray this? 241 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: And then secondly, you have to figure out a path 242 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: to get to the body without destroying any kind of evidence. 243 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: And you talk about an uphill battle because you don't 244 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: you're kind of flying blind. Just think about that just 245 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: for a second. So you've got this, this precious little 246 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: angel that's encased in concrete. Uh, First off, what kind 247 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: of tools are you going to use? Do you, as 248 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: as a forensic scientist, have a skill set where you're 249 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: able to dislodge the body or do you need to 250 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: call in somebody else that actually works with concrete and 251 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: stone and all these sorts of things to be able 252 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: to chip away at this mass that has been created 253 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: that contains the body that you know, they have a 254 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: particular way that they can knock the concrete away and 255 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: get down to what's most valuable here? And you also 256 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: don't know. I think this is another salient point too. 257 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: Let's just say, when they're mixing this up, are there 258 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: other bits of evidence contained within the mixture and are 259 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: you going to obliterate that as you're chipping away. So 260 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: as the stuff is being chipped away pulverized, you can't 261 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: just take it and throw in trash, can Dave. You 262 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: have to hold on to every little bit that comes 263 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: off the body because contained therein might be an answer. 264 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about any kind of biological item or 265 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: element that might be left behind. Maybe there might be 266 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: a projectile that's in this stuff. There might be a 267 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: chipped blade, there might be a bit of a hammer 268 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: if something was used as a bludgeon. For all I know, 269 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: somebody may have thumped a cigarette in there, and that 270 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: has happened in what cement or concrete and then it 271 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: dried and you have that encasement that's there adjacent. So 272 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: you can't just like arbitrarily go into this environment with 273 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: a big old hammer and a chisel and start knocking 274 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: everything away. This is something that is painstaking, that takes 275 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: hours and hours and hours to process. 276 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 3: All I can think of is a five year old 277 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 3: child is in the middle of this, and I've got 278 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: to get arouse and find out who did this to 279 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 3: her and put them in jail. 280 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: Look, you and I are both daddies. Yeah, And I 281 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: don't mean to speak for you, but I gotta tell you. 282 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,239 Speaker 1: I want to get to I want to get to 283 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: the heart of the matter as quickly as possible. I want, 284 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: and you have to fight that urgency, I think to 285 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: get to the body as quickly as possible, because you 286 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: know speed sometimes or your pace you're pacing as you're 287 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: processing a scene. And this applies to any scene, but 288 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: in a case like this, you want to get to 289 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: that body, to that element that's contained within there and 290 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: collecting anything you can off of it. And sometimes you 291 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: can you can drive, you know, metaphorically drive right over 292 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: some of the most important evidence that's left behind. So 293 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: you have to really take care as you're moving forward. 294 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 3: Now, let me ask you, because you've got a scene 295 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: where you found you know, it's like those Russian nesting gulls. 296 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, wow, because you know now. 297 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: And we've got an illegal dumping area, so there's going 298 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 3: to be all kinds of stuff out there, and The 299 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 3: one thing they found was the newspaper from all beneath 300 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 3: Georgia about one hundred miles away. 301 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: Isn't that something? 302 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 2: This is when you're looking for clues. 303 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: This is a big one. This is dumb luck. I'm 304 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: not saying that insultingly. I'm just saying it's almost like 305 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: a wink from God back in nineteen eighty eight, you know, 306 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: and who would have thought, because you know, you brought 307 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: this up. I mentioned where county it's isolated or Millwood 308 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: is the town that they're saying, But that doesn't mean 309 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: that it's like in downtown Millwood. It's out in an 310 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: area adjacent to Millwood in Ware County. 311 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 2: You go to all of this. 312 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: Trouble to encase this precious child in cement and then 313 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, contained in a suitcase, and you're going to 314 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: leave a newspaper out there because you can't imagine Albany. 315 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: I did the calculation from downtown Albany, which is in 316 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: Doughtry County, Georgia, is back to the let me get 317 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: this straight, is back to the southeast of Ware County. 318 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: It was like ninety eight point three miles from downtown 319 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: Albany to downtown Millwood. So what are the and you're 320 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: going to go all this, all this distance and you're 321 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: going to leave a newspaper if somebody is out there 322 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: and and I don't know that the that the road 323 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: crew found the newspaper. It may have been the cops 324 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: when they showed up out there. They're thinking, okay, why 325 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: in the world is there a newspaper here from Albany, Georgia. Well, 326 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: that was a significant lead for them, as it turned out, 327 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: because they're looking to try, you know, geographic placement, and 328 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: they're trying to understand, you know, what's the connection between 329 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: this newspaper. And also when you're looking at something as 330 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: fragile as a newspaper and it's out and exposed in 331 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: the elements, that gives you an idea of timing as well. 332 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: And also the date of the newspaper. You know, when 333 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: was this thing published? When did it come out in 334 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: this particular edition? Does it approximate the time when when 335 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: this child was last seen alive? Oh my gosh, that's 336 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: a big, big tail there. 337 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 2: Day. 338 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 3: Now you've got to identify who did it. Now you've 339 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: got a basic location. Look, but obviously it wasn't enough 340 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: of a clue. Joe because for thirty five years they've 341 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 3: got this child named baby Jane Doe. I'm wondering basic decomposition. 342 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 3: Does it change inside the cement? Is it different? 343 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: It can retard the process a bit. However, you know, 344 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: as I you know I stated earlier, you're still all 345 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: of the elements that become involved in the process of decomposition. 346 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: They're contained within that that cavity because you know, when 347 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: you when you pour concrete around something, you create a 348 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: cavity around the body. So it's not like the concrete 349 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: passes through the body and it negates anything that's around it. 350 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: So the one you have to think about this, did 351 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: the little bugs, if you will, at microscopic level that 352 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: play havoc on our bodies? Is there enough oxygen for 353 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: them to continue doing what they do? Have you frozen 354 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: them in that moment in time and the potential is 355 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: there that you probably haven't and not to mention you know, 356 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: you've got this idea of we talk about two things 357 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: relative to decomposition. 358 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 2: You talk about. 359 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: Autolisis, which autosis is It means self auto so it's 360 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: like self digestion, So the breakdown internally of the body. 361 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: And then you have puture fact which generally counts upon 362 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: external factors that are breaking down a body. You know, 363 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: those things from the outside, so still contained within the body, 364 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: you have this autolytic changes that are going on. The 365 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: body is going to begin to be compromised and it's 366 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: going to be able to break down. And the upside 367 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: is is that when you have containment like this, anything 368 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: that's there, this is aside from decomposition, but anything that 369 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: is there is captured for that moment in time with 370 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: that precious little angel, and you might have evidence that's 371 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: going to bear out and give you proof of death. 372 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: I've stood I know I can personally testify to this. 373 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: I've stood over the bodies of dead kids over the 374 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: course of my career, and I could feel I don't know, Dave, 375 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: do you ever do you have that moment in time 376 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: where when you're truly angry about something, you can feel 377 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: the rage like rising up within you your head. You 378 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: feel like you have a fever almost, and it feels 379 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: like the top of your head is going to blow up. 380 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: I had that happen more than what. It's not healthy 381 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: because I don't you know, even as an investigator, you 382 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: don't have ownership over this precious life because you're not 383 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: the caretaker of this child. But you know that somebody 384 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: has abandoned a child, and it makes you angry, It 385 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: makes you, it motivates you to want to get things done. 386 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: And the frustrating thing about this and I think that 387 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: probably this is the case with those investigators way back then. 388 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: I know that they wanted to do something, Dave. They 389 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: had to. You can't look at the body of a 390 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: child that's treated like this and not want to solve it. 391 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: But sometimes there are just not answers left. You're left wanting, 392 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, from just you know, scientific standpoint, there's nothing 393 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: you can hang your hat on and there's no way 394 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: you can trace it back. But you know, thirty years later, 395 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: over thirty years later, I think that maybe maybe there 396 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: were some answers that were provided. 397 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 3: Thankfully, genetic genealogy has come into play, Joe, And now 398 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 3: this is probably the third or fourth one in the 399 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 3: last year that we have had a chance to cover 400 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: and say, look, you thought you got away with dumping 401 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: that baby in the trash cannon, you know, outside of 402 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 3: car washing Louisiana, or outside of fast food joined North Carolina. 403 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 3: But you know what we got you how do you 404 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 3: go back from that call Joe of a neighbor saying, 405 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 3: I think it might be so and so too. Here's 406 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 3: the remains, here's what we've got. Do we have the 407 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 3: skeletal remains that the child there was she buried? 408 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a high probability that she was in fact 409 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: buried maybe in you know, Pottersfield somewhere. I hope you know. 410 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: And this is kind of gas leads, but sometimes when 411 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: you have when you have remains that are uh skeletonized 412 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: or even partially skeletonized, what can happen is that is 413 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: that you can render those skeletal remains so that they're 414 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: essentially cleaned all right, and I mean all soft tissue 415 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: is gone, and you can retain those And I know 416 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: this is horrible stuff, but this is body bags. You 417 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: render down the remains to the point where they are 418 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: in these skeletal components, and they're boxed up, Dave, They're 419 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: they're boxed up, and many times they're placed on a 420 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: shelf and you retain them. And that could happen in 421 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: this manner. The saving grace I think here is that 422 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: if you if you did your due diligence all the 423 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: way back then and you took the appropriate samples, then 424 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: if there's something that is left behind. I don't know 425 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: that they were able to collect a blood from her 426 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: at that point in time, because we would do what 427 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: used to be referred to as an and that still do. 428 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: It's called a blood card. And if you have blood, 429 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: you essentially collect a bit of blood and you put 430 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: a drop onto the specially treated card and you retain 431 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: that and you can actually lift a DNA sample off 432 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: of that and in the case of skeleton remain well. 433 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: One of the richest sources from a skeleton of DNA 434 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: is of course the teeth. You know, you can go 435 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: in and extract pulp from that area and draw out 436 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: DNA and do a comparison, you know, And that is 437 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: in fact what I think that we're probably looking at 438 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: with this case. There's at least a probability of that. 439 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: And as here's the thing. Technology caught up with the 440 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: criminals in this particular case. And I think that that's 441 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: important to remember because some people just lose hope. And 442 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: I know, because we encounter I get contact about people 443 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: all the time that are looking for answers, you know, 444 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: regarding you know, unsolved cases in their family. This sort 445 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: of thing there you never know on my side of 446 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: the house. At least, I'm not talking about from an investigative, 447 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence standpoint. I'm talking about from a scientific standpoint. 448 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: We're really at a point in history right now where 449 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: science has literally caught up to the bad guys, and 450 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: that that's what we're looking at here, because it was 451 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: genetic genealogy that finally gave them answers. 452 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: But I got it. 453 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: I got to make this point because I know people 454 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: are wondering, well, how did she die? Well, Dave, there was. 455 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: Her body was compromised to the point that the only 456 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: thing that the medical examiner could do at that point 457 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: in time state medical examiner was rule Kenyata's death as 458 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: a homicide one of the five manners. But they said 459 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: that it was indeterminate relative to the cause of death. 460 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: And the way you work that problem out logically in 461 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: your mind, if you're trying to explain that to somebody, well, 462 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: how can you call this a homicide if you don't 463 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: have a cause of death? Okay, well, let's go down 464 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: this road and let's explore this a little bit. How 465 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: do you explain that this child was encased in cement 466 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: placed you know, that's placed inside of a suitcase to 467 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: begin with, that would contain and obscure her body. Then 468 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 1: drive her body. I don't think you put her on 469 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: your back and took her all that way away from Albany, 470 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: Georgia and discarded her in an old TV console in 471 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and where County, Georgia. You know, 472 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: you tell me, I mean, if you're doing the percent here, 473 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: there's a high likelihood that this is a homicide, all right, 474 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: because I don't know that you have anything else to 475 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: hang your hat on. And at this point in time, 476 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: this case has not gone to trial, you know, this 477 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: is waiting to be adjudicated. But they, the state medical examiner, 478 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: did in fact rule this as a homicide, and that's 479 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: going to be that's going to be tough. I think 480 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: that's going to be one of the big questions for 481 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: any defense attorney to ask in this particular case, well, 482 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: how do you note this was a homicide? How do 483 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: you know that she didn't just die? And they were 484 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: so stricken with grief that they didn't have money for 485 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: a funeral, so they decided to, you know, to take 486 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: her to a junk pile and discard her, okay, And 487 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, we wanted to so memorialize our little angel 488 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: that we took her all the way out to a 489 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: junk pile one hundred miles away and dumped her body 490 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: in an old, abandoned TV console. 491 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: I just for the life of me can't find any 492 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: way of even being able to understand that. 493 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: No, I can't either. But here's here's the beautiful part 494 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,719 Speaker 1: of this, because you know, for years and years I 495 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: can't remember, they were referring to her as baby Jane Doe. 496 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, I think of a baby as being less 497 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: than two years old. But we've got a five year 498 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 3: old here. Did they know, being investigators? 499 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, they knew. And and you know, I 500 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: think that the reason that they would refer to her 501 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: as baby instead of diminutive female is it's a it's 502 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: a term of endearment, and and I think that from 503 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: that perspective, even though she's not literally a baby as 504 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: we think about it, she she is a baby and 505 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: in his. 506 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 3: Break, you know, we call children baby a baby for 507 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 3: the whole community adopting this five year old absolutely baby, Okay, 508 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 3: that makes that makes perfectly good. 509 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not so much an indicator of it 510 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: is an indicator that she is less, you know, something 511 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: less than an adult, certainly less than a pubescent child. 512 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: That you're dealing with a very young child here, and 513 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: that again that drives on the point of how ghastly 514 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: this whole process is and this these events surrounding this death. 515 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: But one of the things that they began to understand 516 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: and Dave this is how this newspaper plays into this 517 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: because when they took this DNA sample and plugged it 518 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: into genetic genealogy database and I actually believe that probably 519 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: I got the indication reading some of the associated articles 520 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: that Ortham Lab was involved in this that's that's based 521 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: out in Texas, that they were able to connect this 522 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: child to a family tree in Albany, Georgia. Now just 523 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: let that resonate with you for a moment, because when 524 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: when they're doing the genetic genealogy and they can have 525 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: they have this this uh, this bio logical tie back 526 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: that doesn't just lead them to Georgia, it leads them 527 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: to Albany, Georgia, that there is a family there. That 528 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: means that someone has plugged in their DNA in that 529 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: particular location and there's multiple people that are coming to 530 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: all these cousins, if you will, that are coming off 531 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: of this tree. And then you reflect back to that 532 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: newspaper that was left behind all the way back in 533 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, and those cops were smart enough to 534 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: collect that, they photographed it, and how do you associate 535 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: that with it? And you had a Eureka moment at that. 536 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: Can you imagine all of a sudden, I mean, it's 537 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: the greatest thrill in the world as an investigator when 538 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: the pieces come together and they were actually able to 539 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: tie this child back to her mother and as a result, 540 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: and the mother's name is Evelyn Odom and she's now 541 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: been arrested. She's facing charges at this point in time, 542 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: and some horrendous charges at that and homicide. 543 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 2: They've also arrested Eulyster Sanders. 544 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, who was the mother's a living boyfriend at the time, 545 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: so he's so. 546 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 2: They've arrested the couple. 547 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and these people are now I think the mother 548 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: is like fifty six at this point. 549 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, fifty six and sixty one. 550 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, and guess what, Dave, they've had a chance to 551 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: live their life. Guess who didn't Kenyata she didn't have 552 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: a chance to live her life. Instead, she was discarded 553 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: on a trash pile one hundred miles away from her 554 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: home in Albany, Georgia. And that's the tragedy of all this. 555 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: But there's a day of reckoning coming and I'm going 556 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: to be very interested to see how the prosecution ties 557 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: all of this evidence together and presents this case and 558 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: we'll see if there is in fact justice for this 559 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: little girl that was discarded. I'm just Scott Morgan and 560 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: this is Bodybags 561 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 2: M