WEBVTT - Elon Takes Spotlight at Inauguration and... on Video Games? 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:09.119 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.240 Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.360 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.200 controlled by one man. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.799 Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:24.320 He says. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.960 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:27.440 be different. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.440 He'll vote Republican. There is a reason the US government 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:31.600 is so reliant on him. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.800 Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.760 Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.200 Welcome to Eylan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.600 It's Tuesday, January twenty First, I'm your host, David Papadopolis. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:01.360 We have a new president officially, and Elon was right 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.760 in the thick of all the pomp and circumstance. There 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.520 were plenty of fireworks on day one of the Trump administration, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.520 including a commitment to send astronauts to Mars, but much 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.800 of the conversation was about a certain hand gesture that 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.720 Musk made at an inauguration rally. We're going to dive 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.160 into all of that and then talk about the other 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.720 scandal brewing out there. We have a major, major development 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.600 in the Elon video game cheating saga. To discuss Musk 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.800 and Trump, we have our regulars with us, Max Chafkin 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.000 and Dana Hall. Max, Dana, Hello to you. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:40.600 Hey David, Hey David. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.080 Then Cecilia Donastasio, Bloomberg's video game reporter, will bring us 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:50.280 her reporting on the Musk gaming situation. But first, let's 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:56.160 listen to Trump himself at his inaugural address yesterday, and we. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.800 Will pursue our manifest Destiny into the Stars, launching American 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.760 a US or nuts to plant the stars and stripes 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:05.160 on the planet. 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:10.880 Mars, Dana Hull. Pretty big moment there for Elon Musk. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.880 Oh. Yeah, going to Mars has been the animating force 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.800 of Elon Musk's life forever. And what was really notable 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.480 about what Trump said is that he didn't mention the 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.280 Moon at all. And NASA has this whole program called 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.600 Armis which is all about going to the moon, and 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.040 so the fact that he focused on Mars, it was 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.760 like this huge gift to Elon, and Elon was super 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:32.359 thrilled about it. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.520 Yeah, you know, being the avid listener of the show 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.840 I am when not hosting it. I listened to last 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.560 week's show and Dana and repeatedly in that show, you 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:48.480 had said again how just how damn serious he is 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.520 about going to Mars and how everything else in his 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:55.079 life revolves around that, and watching him react his reaction 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.640 was pretty funny, I would say to when Trump said 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.840 that this is to a certain degree, kind of feels 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:03.280 like all that matters to him. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.000 Well, and that's been the case forever. And I think 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.560 that the mistake that people have made is because Tesla 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.000 is a public company and SpaceX is a private one, 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.440 so many people view him through the lens of Tesla 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.360 because that's where he's a public CEO. But SpaceX is 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.239 the company that he founded. It is the driving force 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.120 of his whole life and has been forever, and like 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.320 everything has always been about going to space and going 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.320 to Mars and making life multiplanetary. And we have tape 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:31.720 of him speaking, right. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:37.040 Yeah, let's listen to more inauguration day tape. Here's Musk 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.240 in his own words, and we're going to take those 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:40.000 to Mars. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:50.520 I mean, can you imagine how awesome it will be 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:56.840 to have American astronauts plant the flag on another planet 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:58.400 for the first time. 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.120 Yeah, when Dana tells us that this is all he 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.160 cares about in life. This is all he cares about 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.440 in life. That's about as excited as someone can be. 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.680 But my question for you is this amazing thing for 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.800 him that Trump kind of makes it a commitment in 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.839 his speech there in the Capitol. But how do these 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.560 things work? Like, what are the practical effects of this? 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.200 Well, so the thing Dana kind of hinted at it. 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.640 But right now there is a Moon program and the assumption, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.760 i think before this happened really before, and there have 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.120 been some hints of this long campaign trail, the assumption 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.200 has been that, you know, this Moon program would go forward. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.080 SpaceX it was supposed to play a part of this program, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.840 but not the launch vehicle. Meanwhile, it has this, it 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.040 has this really large rocket that is essentially built on 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.359 specially what do they call it, Well, they have a 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.800 new name now it's called Starship David, but that is 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.760 what that is what Elon Musk originally called it. And again, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.799 this is a rocket that doesn't yet have a market 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:05.560 really for it. 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:06.960 It's so big, right like. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.039 That when we've talked about this the Moon, we've talked 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.720 about this, well, no, not necessarily, I'm just saying that 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.240 that's not the way that the Artomist program is designed 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.719 at the moment. So so if they cancel the Artomist 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.680 program and and throw all those funds into this into 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.240 a quick Mars mission, which is is kind of what 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.159 Trump has hinted at on the campaign trail and and 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.400 and in bringing this up without mentioning the Moon, I mean, 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.760 that would be a huge windfall for Elon Musk. It 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.599 wouldn't just be a fulfillment of Elon Musk's personal manifest destiny, 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:40.800 his personal and profound ideological desire to like get to Mars. 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.440 It would also be incredibly meaningful for SpaceX. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.520 You you had that prediction, uh, for our mind our 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:49.280 listeners man. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.120 That you know, SpaceX's valuation and Tesla's valuation are going 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.159 to converge. We didn't dwell on that, but that was 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.880 that was a very provocative prediction. And I think that 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.719 that if this were to really happen, yes, SpaceX would 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.080 be a lot more valuable than this today. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.520 Look at that brilliant I love it. Max, Danna tell 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.599 me this on this whole going to Mars thing, Ken Trump, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.640 even with Elon Musk by his side, realistically pull this off. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.039 In one term, I mean, I. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.120 Would think that most people would say no, that getting 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.880 to Mars, particularly getting humans to Mars, is going to 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.640 take much much longer. But you know, Elon is a 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.440 man in a hurry, and he always has very aggressive 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.520 timelines and he would love nothing more than to at 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.360 least try as soon as possible. And you're seeing Starship 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.800 launch over and over again, and you know each time 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.960 they get better at it. I mean, there are always 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.919 like snaffoos, but that's how they iterate, that's how they learn. 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.880 And SpaceX is just lightning years ahead of any competitor 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.120 in terms of having a vehicle that could potentially make 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:49.640 the journey. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.360 There's a launch window essentially every two years, so they 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.800 would have to hit I mean, to make this actually 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.200 happen within Trump's term, they would have to have a 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.719 launch I believe it's in twenty twenty six. It would 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.120 have to go well and then they and that would 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.440 allow conceivably, you know, astronauts at the very end of 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.320 Trump's term to blast off. Now again, I think Dan 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.800 is right, this is like super hypothetical. The whole history 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.280 of space explorations, particularly human beings in space. We don't 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.680 like to put our astronauts, our brave, these brave people 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.480 who are are sacrificing in jeopardy. So I think if 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.520 you were betting on this, it makes sense to be skeptical. 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.040 On the other hand, Dana's right, like and and Elon 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.880 is definitely going for it. He's definitely trying to do this. 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:35.360 It's it's not clear that will succeed. 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.680 Yeah, and Trump and Musk very aligned in that way. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.400 They're both great hype men, and so they are, you know, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.160 simultaneously mutually hyper. 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:44.960 They just just in terms to bring up one other 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.640 sort of potential stump fuck. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.040 Mildly so Artemis. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.600 The Moon program has a bunch of big American defense 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.520 contractors who are signed up making stuff for it, including 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.880 Boeing and North or so each of these The idea 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.560 to like of shutting, of turning this program off or 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.280 winding it down or something will have serious political implications 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.440 in congressional districts all across the country. They're definitely people 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.400 who want to think we should be going to the 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:15.920 moon first. 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.600 It's been a while since we've been to the moon. 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:19.000 Max. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:23.720 Now, Max, you heard him say, Musk that is that 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.119 he's taking Doge to Mars. He's gonna take the entire 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:33.400 committee perhaps, and the cryptocurrency didn't specify to Mars set 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.280 up offices there. But Doge, you know, was in the 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.839 news on inauguration day as well. I mean Trump had 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:46.319 just been sworn in. They hadn't even stopped singing glory, glory, hallelujah. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.320 And the lawsuit against those dropped. 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.800 The lawsuit that several lawsuits several there are several lawsuits, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:59.720 all challenging basically Doge's legality under aspects of the Constitution, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:01.960 how federal law is structured. 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.480 I'm not an expert on an administrative law, but essentially 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.600 saying that these these are like extra. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.199 Legal bodies and are not going to be allowed. 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:13.720 I don't think we have a clear sense of how 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.160 significant these lawsuits are. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.199 Trump also sign. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.439 An executive order establishing DOZE, and I'm sorry to report 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.439 David that the executive order does not include any mention 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.720 of the role that DOGE will play on any non 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.520 earth bodies. 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:40.440 Dana. So, DOZE has now been sued. It has scaled 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.440 back its goals a bit. It's saying, no longer is 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.520 it feasible to cut two trillion a year in government spending. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.120 It's now down talking about maybe one trillion, which is 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.600 still a very very large number. But we do have 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.480 another development, which is that Elon is now the sole 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:02.360 leader of Doze. Vivek Ramis is out. Is that correct? 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.840 That is correct. It's very disappointing because now we can't 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.719 use the phrase Muskaswamy, which Don moynihan had sort of pioneered. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.280 But yet Ramaswami is going to focus on his own 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.560 political career in Ohio and has sort of you know, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:17.960 stepped aside. The White House put out like a statement 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.120 about it yesterday. So you know, this whole idea of 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.520 Doge being co led, you know, has now fallen apart. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:25.640 It's really Musk. 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.400 Did Musk bump him out? Is that what happened? 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.400 I mean, I don't know personally too clear, Like you know, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:37.800 Doge was a Musk's idea Doge. Musk proposed the idea 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.520 of Doge to Trump when he had Trump on an 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.880 X spaces in August. I don't think he ever wanted 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.199 a co leader, and at the rally at Madison Square 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.679 Garden that Max and I were both that originally, like 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.040 Howard Lutnik was sort of floated as the co leader 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.120 of Doge and then he got pushed aside, and then 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.240 it was Vivek and that didn't last for very long. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.760 So I don't think that Elon ever intended to do 0:10:58.800 --> 0:10:59.640 this with a partner. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:06.000 My spin is their efficiencies already taking place right cut 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:06.480 one job. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.760 My sense from talking to people around Trump and is 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.680 that really Ramaswami did this to himself. You remember back 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.719 at the end of last year there Elon Musk kind 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.600 of went on this tear around h one b Visas. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.280 Ramaswami actually chimed in kind of defending Elon Musk and 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.600 made a bunch of comments that I think, in certain 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.079 ways came off even worse than the than the Musk comments, 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.480 talking about essentially that that perceived as attacking American workers 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.520 and implying that American workers were sort of like not 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.880 qualified for the best jobs. It's also true that there 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.920 was this kind of inherent rivalry. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:49.000 Danis hinting at it. 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.480 You know, Ramaswami was sort of shoehorn into this thing, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.319 and you know, it was never totally clear why, because 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.880 this was obviously a Musk idea from the beginning, and 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.600 I'd say ram Swami, I think was always kind of 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:03.800 aiming in this kind. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:04.800 Of political trajectory. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.000 You know, there's been there's been talk of him potentially 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.000 running for governor, even before this of Ohio, even before 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.120 this this like latest thing with with Musk. So so 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.160 I think it feels like a bunch of factors, but 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.840 you got to say like it it is, first of all, 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:24.920 Elon consolidating his influence within Trump World. And and okay, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.880 somebody's maybe been bounced out of the orbit connected to Doge, 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:29.920 but it certainly wasn't Elon Musk. Elon Musk, as we 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.720 saw from yesterday, is enjoying the same extremely high level 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.040 access that he has you know, been enjoying for for months. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.440 He has a White House email address now too. I 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.439 mean that that's really wild this ye. 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.080 And the end. I know that you guys talked about 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:46.760 this last week with Josh, But does he have this 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:47.800 blue pant. 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:49.559 We're seeing Yeah, we're seeing reporting now. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.240 ABC News reported a few hours ago as we're recording this, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.120 that that they had that they were hearing that he 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:57.560 was going to have the blue badge. 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.760 This was the badge that we talked about with Josh. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.959 Greg get some as allow. 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.640 Him to kind of walk into the Oval office. 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.600 There's also been ordered diet cokes. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.800 There's also been suggestions in reporting, although it's not totally 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.360 clear if this is definitely true or not to me anyway, 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.760 that he would have some kind of office space in 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.200 the in the actual White House and not in addition 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.839 to offices in the Executive Office building. I mean, the 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.400 bottom line is going to have a lot of access. 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:23.000 I will say. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.520 Reading this executive order, and I read it closely because 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.600 not very longin is pretty easy. It doesn't say anything 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:34.040 about cutting costs. It actually just talks about sort of 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.440 upgrading the IT systems, the government software system. 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.599 Now that's code for cutting spending. 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.440 I don't know that exact, David. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.000 All of my twenty years of reporting on software, I 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:47.440 can tell you that software does. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:48.160 Not expense it. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.280 It's often a way to increase spending rather than cut it. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.360 Dana Hall, The day was not without controversy, though there 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.640 were several controversial things that took place. But as it 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:04.840 regards specifically to Elon Musk, there was a salute that 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.319 caused quite a stir. He made this gesture while giving 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.440 a speech yesterday. Tell us as best you can what 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:13.280 it looked like. 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.520 Okay, so mus did this gesture two and a half times. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.800 He put his right hand over his heart, and then 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.840 he gave a salute to the front of the audience. 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:23.920 Then he turned around and he did it a second time, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.480 and then he put his hand over his heart yet again. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.600 You know, if you are being generous to Elon, he 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.640 was making an awkward gesture in a time of heightened 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.320 excitement where he was basically trying to show the crowd 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.160 that he really loved them. To historians who study fascism, 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.800 this was like the Hitler salute or the Roman salute. 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.040 And you know, immediately, like the Internet was just wild, like, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.600 oh my god, did Elon just do the Nazi salute. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.160 I can't speak with any fidelity as to whether he 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.000 intended to do this or not. It made a huge sture. 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.800 John Stewart talked about it last night. Historians were apoplectic. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.160 But it was also like a signal, like you saw 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.440 a lot of people on the right sort of embrace this, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.360 like Andrew Tate and people from gab and elsewhere. So 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.760 it was sort of like, whether it was intentional or not, 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.520 it sort of sent a signal of sorts to the 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.880 dark corners of the Internet and then, interestingly, the Anti 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.960 Defamation League put out a tweet that was sort of 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.840 giving Musk cover, where they basically said, quote, it seems 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.720 that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.160 of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.960 that people are on edge. And then Musk of course 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.640 quoted the post and wrote thanks guys. So it was 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.920 all very It was all very weird. You know, I 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.000 have never seen him do that before. And I've seen 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.160 him and Max has as well. I've seen him speak 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.600 in a lot of different settings. He certainly never did 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.040 it on the campaign trail. So it was just it 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:50.800 was very odd. 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.000 On that last point. This is what occurs to me. Yeah, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.800 you're saying you've never seen Musk do it before. I 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.400 don't know that in my life, and you guys tell 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.360 me about yours that I've ever seen anyone do it 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.680 by mistake before. Is that something that like, whoops, you know, 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:07.400 I just I meant to do something else and that 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:08.000 came out. 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.920 Matt, That is what I was thinking. I mean, this 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.240 is not a thing that anyone does by mistake. Ever. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.440 That said, and I think this is important. We are 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:22.480 not as steeped in the world of far right and 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.760 white nationalism and anti semitism that Elon Musk is and like, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.600 as we've talked about on this podcast over and over again. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.200 Leave the Gester aside. This is somebody who has brought, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.880 you know, Nazis and white supremacists onto his platform, who 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:41.200 has interacted with Nazis and white supremacists on his platform, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.840 who has repeated anti Semitic conspiracy theories. And if you 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.120 have that kind of media diet's it seems to me 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:53.720 possible that that gestures that would be unthinkable for somebody 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.760 who did not have that media diet might come out accidentally. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.360 And so I do think it's possible that this was 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:04.520 an accident, but it definitely you can understand why people 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.359 are troubled by it, especially in light of Musk's long, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:10.520 long track record. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:11.000 In this area. 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:12.919 And I just want to read another comment that was 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.439 in our story today. A historian of fascism here, wrote 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.720 Ruth ben Giah, she's a professor of history at NYU. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.000 It was a Nazi salute and a very belluderent one too. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:24.560 And I think the fact that he did it not 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.760 once but twice and then almost like a halftime is 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.600 what also really struck people. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:31.800 I thought it was a deep fake when I saw it, honestly, 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.879 because I saw it and I thought this has to 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.400 be fake because from the outside that sort of looked 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.560 like now, I did not see it that the original 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.000 clip I saw was not the full clip in context 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.840 where he holds his hand to his heart. So maybe, 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.760 and I think it's like all of these things, it's 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.359 important that we look at them with the total picture, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.879 and the total picture is one where we've seen Musk 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:02.160 embracing some of these extreme and arker and more offensive forces, 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:02.960 you know. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.040 For years now. Danna, you said that Musk had thanked 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.879 the ADL for the statement he put out. Has he 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.960 said anything else about the controversy beyond that. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.719 Yeah, he basically said they're gonna have to come up 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.240 with better dirty tricks. I mean, he sees this as 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.240 a smear campaign, similar to when he kind of was 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.680 tweeting out the great replacement theory stuff that we wrote 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.159 about like a year ago. He sees this as a 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.679 as a smear campaign, that he's a victim, that this 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.280 is the legacy media, you know, grasping at straws, and so, yeah, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.040 he tweeted out something about that last night. 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.960 All Right, Dana, we are going to say goodbye to 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:45.359 you for now. We will see you next week. Thanks. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.520 All right now, Max, you and I after that chat, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.640 we need to lighten the mood a little. We're gonna 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:52.960 we're gonna do something a little more fun. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.080 Yeah, I mean, we got to get into this video 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.040 game cheating scandal. 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:57.960 David. It's it's it's the only thing. 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.000 That anyone was talking about while while they were watching 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:00.800 the inauguration. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.679 Anyway, Clearly he's trying to do the map that's not 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:04.280 in the chain. 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.119 He's just clicking a map repeatedly trying to access it. 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:08.600 He was not eligible to endo that map. 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:09.960 I just want you as to understand this is one 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.600 of the highest level hardcore characters in the game. He 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.840 would have played thousands of maps at this point. 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.520 He literally didn't know how to open a map just 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:20.720 ring bus Kazobs. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:21.520 He just ran us. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.359 The gazob cast arms are one of the most important currencies. 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.080 So he's playing no filter, and he didn't pick up 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:28.920 the kiss or he's. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:30.000 Not presing his Monoplaus. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:37.479 He's not freaking Amuntoflus, He's not freasing amount Max. I'm 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.000 struggling to dig this segment super seriously after what we heard, 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:46.200 but Cecilia Denistasio, our video game reporter, takes it very seriously. 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:47.719 It's what she does for a living for us here 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.359 at Bloomberg. Cecilia, welcome to the show. What did we 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.680 just hear exactly? Uh, we on this show touched upon 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.080 this whole saga a little bit last week. But bring 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.080 us up to speed because there's been some deve. 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.400 Yeah, there have been some developments. So for a couple 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.080 of months now, Elon Musk has been bragging that he 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.639 is one of the top players of two very popular 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.160 video games, Diablo for and Path of Exile two. And 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.080 you know a lot of gamers have been pointing out 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.560 that Elon Musk is the CEO of six companies and 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.320 a lot of recent college graduates aren't able to reach 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.480 the high rungs of gamerdom that Elon Musk seems to 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.320 have himself. So what we heard in that clip was 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:35.199 a couple of gamers commenting over Elon Musk himself playing 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:36.880 the video game Path of Exile too. 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.199 They seem to be mocking him, Cecilia. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.960 They are mocking him because look, I play these games, 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:43.600 and I was one of these people when I was 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.560 watching him play this game, like, h, he's out of mana, 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.120