1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 4: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate. 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 5: He says. 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: be different. 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: He'll vote Republican. There is a reason the US government 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 3: is so reliant on him. 11 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 6: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 5: Welcome to Eylan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 5: It's Tuesday, January twenty First, I'm your host, David Papadopolis. 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 5: We have a new president officially, and Elon was right 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 5: in the thick of all the pomp and circumstance. There 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 5: were plenty of fireworks on day one of the Trump administration, 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 5: including a commitment to send astronauts to Mars, but much 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 5: of the conversation was about a certain hand gesture that 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 5: Musk made at an inauguration rally. We're going to dive 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 5: into all of that and then talk about the other 22 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 5: scandal brewing out there. We have a major, major development 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 5: in the Elon video game cheating saga. To discuss Musk 24 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 5: and Trump, we have our regulars with us, Max Chafkin 25 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 5: and Dana Hall. Max, Dana, Hello to you. 26 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 4: Hey David, Hey David. 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 5: Then Cecilia Donastasio, Bloomberg's video game reporter, will bring us 28 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 5: her reporting on the Musk gaming situation. But first, let's 29 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 5: listen to Trump himself at his inaugural address yesterday, and we. 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 6: Will pursue our manifest Destiny into the Stars, launching American 31 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 6: a US or nuts to plant the stars and stripes 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 6: on the planet. 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 5: Mars, Dana Hull. Pretty big moment there for Elon Musk. 34 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 6: Oh. Yeah, going to Mars has been the animating force 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 6: of Elon Musk's life forever. And what was really notable 36 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 6: about what Trump said is that he didn't mention the 37 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 6: Moon at all. And NASA has this whole program called 38 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 6: Armis which is all about going to the moon, and 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 6: so the fact that he focused on Mars, it was 40 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 6: like this huge gift to Elon, and Elon was super 41 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 6: thrilled about it. 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, being the avid listener of the show 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 5: I am when not hosting it. I listened to last 44 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 5: week's show and Dana and repeatedly in that show, you 45 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 5: had said again how just how damn serious he is 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 5: about going to Mars and how everything else in his 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 5: life revolves around that, and watching him react his reaction 48 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 5: was pretty funny, I would say to when Trump said 49 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 5: that this is to a certain degree, kind of feels 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 5: like all that matters to him. 51 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 6: Well, and that's been the case forever. And I think 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 6: that the mistake that people have made is because Tesla 53 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 6: is a public company and SpaceX is a private one, 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 6: so many people view him through the lens of Tesla 55 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 6: because that's where he's a public CEO. But SpaceX is 56 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 6: the company that he founded. It is the driving force 57 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 6: of his whole life and has been forever, and like 58 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 6: everything has always been about going to space and going 59 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 6: to Mars and making life multiplanetary. And we have tape 60 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 6: of him speaking, right. 61 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, let's listen to more inauguration day tape. Here's Musk 62 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 5: in his own words, and we're going to take those 63 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 5: to Mars. 64 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 3: I mean, can you imagine how awesome it will be 65 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 3: to have American astronauts plant the flag on another planet 66 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 3: for the first time. 67 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, when Dana tells us that this is all he 68 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 5: cares about in life. This is all he cares about 69 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 5: in life. That's about as excited as someone can be. 70 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 5: But my question for you is this amazing thing for 71 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 5: him that Trump kind of makes it a commitment in 72 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 5: his speech there in the Capitol. But how do these 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 5: things work? Like, what are the practical effects of this? 74 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: Well, so the thing Dana kind of hinted at it. 75 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: But right now there is a Moon program and the assumption, 76 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: i think before this happened really before, and there have 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: been some hints of this long campaign trail, the assumption 78 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: has been that, you know, this Moon program would go forward. 79 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: SpaceX it was supposed to play a part of this program, 80 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 2: but not the launch vehicle. Meanwhile, it has this, it 81 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 2: has this really large rocket that is essentially built on 82 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: specially what do they call it, Well, they have a 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: new name now it's called Starship David, but that is 84 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: what that is what Elon Musk originally called it. And again, 85 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 2: this is a rocket that doesn't yet have a market 86 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: really for it. 87 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 5: It's so big, right like. 88 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: That when we've talked about this the Moon, we've talked 89 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: about this, well, no, not necessarily, I'm just saying that 90 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: that's not the way that the Artomist program is designed 91 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: at the moment. So so if they cancel the Artomist 92 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: program and and throw all those funds into this into 93 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: a quick Mars mission, which is is kind of what 94 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: Trump has hinted at on the campaign trail and and 95 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: and in bringing this up without mentioning the Moon, I mean, 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: that would be a huge windfall for Elon Musk. It 97 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: wouldn't just be a fulfillment of Elon Musk's personal manifest destiny, 98 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: his personal and profound ideological desire to like get to Mars. 99 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: It would also be incredibly meaningful for SpaceX. 100 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 5: You you had that prediction, uh, for our mind our 101 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 5: listeners man. 102 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: That you know, SpaceX's valuation and Tesla's valuation are going 103 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: to converge. We didn't dwell on that, but that was 104 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: that was a very provocative prediction. And I think that 105 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 2: that if this were to really happen, yes, SpaceX would 106 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: be a lot more valuable than this today. 107 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 5: Look at that brilliant I love it. Max, Danna tell 108 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 5: me this on this whole going to Mars thing, Ken Trump, 109 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 5: even with Elon Musk by his side, realistically pull this off. 110 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 5: In one term, I mean, I. 111 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 6: Would think that most people would say no, that getting 112 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 6: to Mars, particularly getting humans to Mars, is going to 113 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 6: take much much longer. But you know, Elon is a 114 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 6: man in a hurry, and he always has very aggressive 115 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 6: timelines and he would love nothing more than to at 116 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 6: least try as soon as possible. And you're seeing Starship 117 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 6: launch over and over again, and you know each time 118 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 6: they get better at it. I mean, there are always 119 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 6: like snaffoos, but that's how they iterate, that's how they learn. 120 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 6: And SpaceX is just lightning years ahead of any competitor 121 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 6: in terms of having a vehicle that could potentially make 122 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 6: the journey. 123 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: There's a launch window essentially every two years, so they 124 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: would have to hit I mean, to make this actually 125 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: happen within Trump's term, they would have to have a 126 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: launch I believe it's in twenty twenty six. It would 127 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: have to go well and then they and that would 128 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: allow conceivably, you know, astronauts at the very end of 129 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: Trump's term to blast off. Now again, I think Dan 130 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: is right, this is like super hypothetical. The whole history 131 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: of space explorations, particularly human beings in space. We don't 132 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: like to put our astronauts, our brave, these brave people 133 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: who are are sacrificing in jeopardy. So I think if 134 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: you were betting on this, it makes sense to be skeptical. 135 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: On the other hand, Dana's right, like and and Elon 136 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: is definitely going for it. He's definitely trying to do this. 137 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: It's it's not clear that will succeed. 138 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, and Trump and Musk very aligned in that way. 139 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 5: They're both great hype men, and so they are, you know, 140 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 5: simultaneously mutually hyper. 141 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: They just just in terms to bring up one other 142 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: sort of potential stump fuck. 143 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 5: Mildly so Artemis. 144 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: The Moon program has a bunch of big American defense 145 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: contractors who are signed up making stuff for it, including 146 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: Boeing and North or so each of these The idea 147 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: to like of shutting, of turning this program off or 148 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: winding it down or something will have serious political implications 149 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: in congressional districts all across the country. They're definitely people 150 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: who want to think we should be going to the 151 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: moon first. 152 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 5: It's been a while since we've been to the moon. 153 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: Max. 154 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 5: Now, Max, you heard him say, Musk that is that 155 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 5: he's taking Doge to Mars. He's gonna take the entire 156 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 5: committee perhaps, and the cryptocurrency didn't specify to Mars set 157 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 5: up offices there. But Doge, you know, was in the 158 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 5: news on inauguration day as well. I mean Trump had 159 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 5: just been sworn in. They hadn't even stopped singing glory, glory, hallelujah. 160 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 5: And the lawsuit against those dropped. 161 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 7: The lawsuit that several lawsuits several there are several lawsuits, 162 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 7: all challenging basically Doge's legality under aspects of the Constitution, 163 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 7: how federal law is structured. 164 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: I'm not an expert on an administrative law, but essentially 165 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: saying that these these are like extra. 166 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 4: Legal bodies and are not going to be allowed. 167 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: I don't think we have a clear sense of how 168 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: significant these lawsuits are. 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 4: Trump also sign. 170 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 2: An executive order establishing DOZE, and I'm sorry to report 171 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 2: David that the executive order does not include any mention 172 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: of the role that DOGE will play on any non 173 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: earth bodies. 174 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 5: Dana. So, DOZE has now been sued. It has scaled 175 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 5: back its goals a bit. It's saying, no longer is 176 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 5: it feasible to cut two trillion a year in government spending. 177 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 5: It's now down talking about maybe one trillion, which is 178 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 5: still a very very large number. But we do have 179 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 5: another development, which is that Elon is now the sole 180 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 5: leader of Doze. Vivek Ramis is out. Is that correct? 181 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 6: That is correct. It's very disappointing because now we can't 182 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 6: use the phrase Muskaswamy, which Don moynihan had sort of pioneered. 183 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 6: But yet Ramaswami is going to focus on his own 184 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 6: political career in Ohio and has sort of you know, 185 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 6: stepped aside. The White House put out like a statement 186 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 6: about it yesterday. So you know, this whole idea of 187 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 6: Doge being co led, you know, has now fallen apart. 188 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 6: It's really Musk. 189 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 5: Did Musk bump him out? Is that what happened? 190 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know personally too clear, Like you know, 191 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 6: Doge was a Musk's idea Doge. Musk proposed the idea 192 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 6: of Doge to Trump when he had Trump on an 193 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 6: X spaces in August. I don't think he ever wanted 194 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 6: a co leader, and at the rally at Madison Square 195 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 6: Garden that Max and I were both that originally, like 196 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 6: Howard Lutnik was sort of floated as the co leader 197 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 6: of Doge and then he got pushed aside, and then 198 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 6: it was Vivek and that didn't last for very long. 199 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 6: So I don't think that Elon ever intended to do 200 00:10:58,800 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 6: this with a partner. 201 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 5: My spin is their efficiencies already taking place right cut 202 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 5: one job. 203 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: My sense from talking to people around Trump and is 204 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: that really Ramaswami did this to himself. You remember back 205 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 2: at the end of last year there Elon Musk kind 206 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: of went on this tear around h one b Visas. 207 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: Ramaswami actually chimed in kind of defending Elon Musk and 208 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: made a bunch of comments that I think, in certain 209 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 2: ways came off even worse than the than the Musk comments, 210 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: talking about essentially that that perceived as attacking American workers 211 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: and implying that American workers were sort of like not 212 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: qualified for the best jobs. It's also true that there 213 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: was this kind of inherent rivalry. 214 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 4: Danis hinting at it. 215 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: You know, Ramaswami was sort of shoehorn into this thing, 216 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 2: and you know, it was never totally clear why, because 217 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: this was obviously a Musk idea from the beginning, and 218 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: I'd say ram Swami, I think was always kind of 219 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: aiming in this kind. 220 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 4: Of political trajectory. 221 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 2: You know, there's been there's been talk of him potentially 222 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: running for governor, even before this of Ohio, even before 223 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: this this like latest thing with with Musk. So so 224 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: I think it feels like a bunch of factors, but 225 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 2: you got to say like it it is, first of all, 226 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: Elon consolidating his influence within Trump World. And and okay, 227 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: somebody's maybe been bounced out of the orbit connected to Doge, 228 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: but it certainly wasn't Elon Musk. Elon Musk, as we 229 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: saw from yesterday, is enjoying the same extremely high level 230 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: access that he has you know, been enjoying for for months. 231 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 6: He has a White House email address now too. I 232 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 6: mean that that's really wild this ye. 233 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 5: And the end. I know that you guys talked about 234 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 5: this last week with Josh, But does he have this 235 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 5: blue pant. 236 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 4: We're seeing Yeah, we're seeing reporting now. 237 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: ABC News reported a few hours ago as we're recording this, 238 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: that that they had that they were hearing that he 239 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: was going to have the blue badge. 240 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 4: This was the badge that we talked about with Josh. 241 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 5: Greg get some as allow. 242 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 4: Him to kind of walk into the Oval office. 243 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 5: There's also been ordered diet cokes. 244 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: There's also been suggestions in reporting, although it's not totally 245 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: clear if this is definitely true or not to me anyway, 246 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: that he would have some kind of office space in 247 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: the in the actual White House and not in addition 248 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 2: to offices in the Executive Office building. I mean, the 249 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: bottom line is going to have a lot of access. 250 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 4: I will say. 251 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: Reading this executive order, and I read it closely because 252 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: not very longin is pretty easy. It doesn't say anything 253 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: about cutting costs. It actually just talks about sort of 254 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: upgrading the IT systems, the government software system. 255 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,599 Speaker 5: Now that's code for cutting spending. 256 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 4: I don't know that exact, David. 257 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: All of my twenty years of reporting on software, I 258 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 2: can tell you that software does. 259 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 5: Not expense it. 260 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 4: It's often a way to increase spending rather than cut it. 261 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 5: Dana Hall, The day was not without controversy, though there 262 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 5: were several controversial things that took place. But as it 263 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 5: regards specifically to Elon Musk, there was a salute that 264 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 5: caused quite a stir. He made this gesture while giving 265 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 5: a speech yesterday. Tell us as best you can what 266 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 5: it looked like. 267 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 6: Okay, so mus did this gesture two and a half times. 268 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 6: He put his right hand over his heart, and then 269 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 6: he gave a salute to the front of the audience. 270 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 6: Then he turned around and he did it a second time, 271 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 6: and then he put his hand over his heart yet again. 272 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 6: You know, if you are being generous to Elon, he 273 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 6: was making an awkward gesture in a time of heightened 274 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 6: excitement where he was basically trying to show the crowd 275 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 6: that he really loved them. To historians who study fascism, 276 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 6: this was like the Hitler salute or the Roman salute. 277 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 6: And you know, immediately, like the Internet was just wild, like, 278 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 6: oh my god, did Elon just do the Nazi salute. 279 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 6: I can't speak with any fidelity as to whether he 280 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 6: intended to do this or not. It made a huge sture. 281 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 6: John Stewart talked about it last night. Historians were apoplectic. 282 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 6: But it was also like a signal, like you saw 283 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 6: a lot of people on the right sort of embrace this, 284 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 6: like Andrew Tate and people from gab and elsewhere. So 285 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 6: it was sort of like, whether it was intentional or not, 286 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 6: it sort of sent a signal of sorts to the 287 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 6: dark corners of the Internet and then, interestingly, the Anti 288 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 6: Defamation League put out a tweet that was sort of 289 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 6: giving Musk cover, where they basically said, quote, it seems 290 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 6: that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment 291 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 6: of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate 292 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 6: that people are on edge. And then Musk of course 293 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 6: quoted the post and wrote thanks guys. So it was 294 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 6: all very It was all very weird. You know, I 295 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 6: have never seen him do that before. And I've seen 296 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 6: him and Max has as well. I've seen him speak 297 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 6: in a lot of different settings. He certainly never did 298 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 6: it on the campaign trail. So it was just it 299 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 6: was very odd. 300 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 5: On that last point. This is what occurs to me. Yeah, 301 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 5: you're saying you've never seen Musk do it before. I 302 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 5: don't know that in my life, and you guys tell 303 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 5: me about yours that I've ever seen anyone do it 304 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 5: by mistake before. Is that something that like, whoops, you know, 305 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 5: I just I meant to do something else and that 306 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 5: came out. 307 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 4: Matt, That is what I was thinking. I mean, this 308 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 4: is not a thing that anyone does by mistake. Ever. 309 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: That said, and I think this is important. We are 310 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: not as steeped in the world of far right and 311 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: white nationalism and anti semitism that Elon Musk is and like, 312 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: as we've talked about on this podcast over and over again. 313 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: Leave the Gester aside. This is somebody who has brought, 314 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: you know, Nazis and white supremacists onto his platform, who 315 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: has interacted with Nazis and white supremacists on his platform, 316 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: who has repeated anti Semitic conspiracy theories. And if you 317 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: have that kind of media diet's it seems to me 318 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: possible that that gestures that would be unthinkable for somebody 319 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: who did not have that media diet might come out accidentally. 320 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: And so I do think it's possible that this was 321 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: an accident, but it definitely you can understand why people 322 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: are troubled by it, especially in light of Musk's long, 323 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: long track record. 324 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 5: In this area. 325 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 6: And I just want to read another comment that was 326 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 6: in our story today. A historian of fascism here, wrote 327 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 6: Ruth ben Giah, she's a professor of history at NYU. 328 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 6: It was a Nazi salute and a very belluderent one too. 329 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 6: And I think the fact that he did it not 330 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 6: once but twice and then almost like a halftime is 331 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 6: what also really struck people. 332 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: I thought it was a deep fake when I saw it, honestly, 333 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: because I saw it and I thought this has to 334 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: be fake because from the outside that sort of looked 335 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: like now, I did not see it that the original 336 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: clip I saw was not the full clip in context 337 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: where he holds his hand to his heart. So maybe, 338 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: and I think it's like all of these things, it's 339 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: important that we look at them with the total picture, 340 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: and the total picture is one where we've seen Musk 341 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: embracing some of these extreme and arker and more offensive forces, 342 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: you know. 343 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 5: For years now. Danna, you said that Musk had thanked 344 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 5: the ADL for the statement he put out. Has he 345 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 5: said anything else about the controversy beyond that. 346 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 6: Yeah, he basically said they're gonna have to come up 347 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 6: with better dirty tricks. I mean, he sees this as 348 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 6: a smear campaign, similar to when he kind of was 349 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 6: tweeting out the great replacement theory stuff that we wrote 350 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 6: about like a year ago. He sees this as a 351 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 6: as a smear campaign, that he's a victim, that this 352 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 6: is the legacy media, you know, grasping at straws, and so, yeah, 353 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 6: he tweeted out something about that last night. 354 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 5: All Right, Dana, we are going to say goodbye to 355 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 5: you for now. We will see you next week. Thanks. 356 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 5: All right now, Max, you and I after that chat, 357 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 5: we need to lighten the mood a little. We're gonna 358 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 5: we're gonna do something a little more fun. 359 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we got to get into this video 360 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: game cheating scandal. 361 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 4: David. It's it's it's the only thing. 362 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 2: That anyone was talking about while while they were watching 363 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: the inauguration. 364 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 3: Anyway, Clearly he's trying to do the map that's not 365 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 3: in the chain. 366 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 5: He's just clicking a map repeatedly trying to access it. 367 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 4: He was not eligible to endo that map. 368 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: I just want you as to understand this is one 369 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 3: of the highest level hardcore characters in the game. He 370 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 3: would have played thousands of maps at this point. 371 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 5: He literally didn't know how to open a map just 372 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 5: ring bus Kazobs. 373 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 4: He just ran us. 374 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: The gazob cast arms are one of the most important currencies. 375 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 3: So he's playing no filter, and he didn't pick up 376 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 3: the kiss or he's. 377 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 4: Not presing his Monoplaus. 378 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 5: He's not freaking Amuntoflus, He's not freasing amount Max. I'm 379 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 5: struggling to dig this segment super seriously after what we heard, 380 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 5: but Cecilia Denistasio, our video game reporter, takes it very seriously. 381 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 5: It's what she does for a living for us here 382 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 5: at Bloomberg. Cecilia, welcome to the show. What did we 383 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 5: just hear exactly? Uh, we on this show touched upon 384 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 5: this whole saga a little bit last week. But bring 385 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 5: us up to speed because there's been some deve. 386 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been some developments. So for a couple 387 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: of months now, Elon Musk has been bragging that he 388 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: is one of the top players of two very popular 389 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: video games, Diablo for and Path of Exile two. And 390 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: you know a lot of gamers have been pointing out 391 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: that Elon Musk is the CEO of six companies and 392 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: a lot of recent college graduates aren't able to reach 393 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: the high rungs of gamerdom that Elon Musk seems to 394 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: have himself. So what we heard in that clip was 395 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: a couple of gamers commenting over Elon Musk himself playing 396 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: the video game Path of Exile too. 397 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 5: They seem to be mocking him, Cecilia. 398 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: They are mocking him because look, I play these games, 399 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: and I was one of these people when I was 400 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: watching him play this game, like, h, he's out of mana, 401 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: please use the manifest, use the Manoflast, use the manoflask and. 402 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 5: He does it, and you the same thing that they 403 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 5: were saying as you were watching it. 404 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: Yes, because look, he's bragging about having these very high 405 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: level characters that take a lot of time to level up, 406 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: and he's playing in a way that maybe you know, 407 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to indicate that he had leveled up his 408 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: character himself. 409 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 5: I see. 410 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 4: So wait, just to translate here, yes, translation. 411 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: The point of this story is that Musk had basically 412 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 2: presented in his own telling, and I'd say, in the 413 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: telling of maybe some people close to him, that he was, 414 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: you know, a world class player in these video games. 415 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 2: And these Cecilia experienced gamer as well as these other 416 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: gamers that we're hearing, are basically seeing holes in that story. 417 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 5: Correct, correct, Okay, now that's where we were as of 418 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 5: a few hours ago. But Cecilia looks like there's evidence 419 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 5: that Musk himself perhaps has admitted that indeed he was 420 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 5: cheating all along. 421 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny you use the word cheating because it's cheating. Well, 422 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: the video game developers say it's not kosher either, according 423 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: to their terms of service. But what Musk allegedly did 424 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: was have somebody else level up his accounts for him, which, 425 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: if you are listening to this podcast. 426 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 4: So sorry, I account what's that meaning? 427 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 5: Exactly? Help us out here, Max and I are idiots. 428 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 5: What what is leveling up? 429 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 4: Yeah? 430 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: So you create a character playing one of these games 431 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: and say you want to get to the highest level 432 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: where the swaggiest gear fight the most hardcore monsters. Right, 433 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: but that takes a lot of time, hundreds or thousands 434 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: of hours. I interviewed a lot of people who offer 435 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: services to wealthy gamers who don't want to spend the 436 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: hundreds or thousands of hours killing little goblins and leveling 437 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: up the characters. Like, you know, if you're the CEO, 438 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: for example, six companies, maybe you don't want to be 439 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: hitting goblins. 440 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 2: Even just one for that matter, you know, or you know, 441 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 2: even if you just have normal adult responsibility. 442 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: Well that's a little condescending. 443 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 5: Well correct, and Cecilia, no, you know. One of the 444 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 5: things I learned in your story, which is very good, 445 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 5: is that it is now cool, totally cool to me. 446 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 5: An adult gamer all along. The joke was on me then, 447 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 5: I guess, and I feel like I own an apology 448 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 5: to my son Miguel and my nephew Michael for mocking 449 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 5: him all these years. I'm sorry. It's cool to be 450 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 5: an adult gamer now, yeah, it really is. 451 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, if you are the king of the nerds 452 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: like Elon Musk, you know, wants to be and he 453 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: wants to use his like meme speak and you know, 454 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: be with it on Reddit like you know, being good 455 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: at gaming offers you a certain level of cultural cloud. 456 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 5: H Okay, who knew? Now? But back to the admission, 457 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 5: What exactly did he say? And are we positive? Are 458 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 5: we positive that that admission actually came from Elon Musk? Gosh? 459 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's really hard to say, but what 460 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: news outlets are reporting is that a very small YouTube 461 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: account had communication with Elon Musk in a direct message 462 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: on x in which this YouTuber asked, you know, hey, 463 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: did you level up these accounts yourself or did somebody 464 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: else do it for you? And Elon says, look, you know, 465 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: if you want to be competing with these high level 466 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: gamers in countries like Asia, you know everybody has somebody 467 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: else level up their accounts, and he indicates that he 468 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: did not do it himself, and that also he had 469 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: never represented that he had done it himself. 470 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 5: I see, I'm curious. Can I ask you to a question, Yes, absolutely, 471 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 5: I mean. 472 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: Hearing hearing this story, like, how does this square with 473 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: the way that he's run his businesses over the last 474 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: couple of decades. 475 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: Well, okay, so one thing I want to say is, 476 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: you know, I've never covered the world of video game 477 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: cheating before chating, but I have, but I have some 478 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 2: experience in the in the world of sports cheating. And 479 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: this is a classic sort of non denial from Elon. 480 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: It's kind of like what Lance Armstrong has said. It's 481 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: what many dopers after they have been found to be 482 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 2: dopers say, which is basically like everyone was doing it, 483 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: there was no way to could never have won the 484 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: Tour de France without and which which is true, potentially true. 485 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 5: But I just want to know it was just the 486 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 5: best of the cheaters. 487 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 4: Not a great defense. 488 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: I think the thing that struck me about this scandal 489 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 2: or non scandal or whatever was that you saw a 490 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: bunch of people in Elon Musk's orbit kind of spring 491 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: up on Twitter over the last couple of days to 492 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: essentially say no, no, no, no, he really. 493 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 4: Was spending a lot of time playing video games. 494 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 5: You didn't know how to open the what was it? 495 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 5: The mail? 496 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: Javon Zillis, mother of some of his children, tweeted yesterday 497 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: a year old video of Elon Musk gaming and then 498 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 2: saying that he played seventeen hours. It was part of 499 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: a seventeen hour push on Christmas Day. 500 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 5: So God, this is getting depressing. 501 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 2: So maybe that's how he fits it in. He's just 502 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: doing this on the holidays. 503 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 5: Okay, So there's a good question for you, Cecilia, to 504 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 5: become that good, to become that guy does a periodic 505 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 5: seventeen hour binge on Christmas? Does that get you there? 506 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 5: Or are you just logging obscene amounts of hours day in, 507 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 5: day out, week in, week out. 508 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: In my experience, it takes more than seventeen hours on 509 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: Christmas or an hour or two at the end of 510 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: your day running a couple of companies. But I mean, look, 511 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: he did play the video game himself when he was 512 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: live streaming to the audience, and it's not as if 513 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: he's never played a game before, like he's fine, he's 514 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: fine at these games, you know, But what was interesting 515 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: to people was the fact that he had represented that 516 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: he was one of the top players ever in some 517 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: of these games, which is really confusing when you go 518 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: out and livestream yourself. Right, That's the thing I don't understand. 519 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 5: He exposed himself in a way that he didn't he 520 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 5: didn't really need to show. 521 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: I mean, look, this is a guy who is very 522 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 2: who has been very successful kind of creating an image 523 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 2: of himself, an image of himself as a larger than 524 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: life figure, as a guy who can simultaneously design a 525 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: car and a rocket and be awesome at video games. 526 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 2: And I don't know, he's obviously pretty stretched at this 527 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 2: point between the companies and between his political activities and 528 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: and also perhaps not spending as not not being quite 529 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: as precise in his personal branding as he used to 530 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 2: as we just as we just saw talking about this 531 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 2: this gesture, and it just it just it feels I 532 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: don't know, sloppy or something, and that and that in 533 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 2: that sense, it does feel a little bit out of 534 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 2: character for Elon Musk, like where where he has been 535 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 2: very very successful for a very long time crafting this 536 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 2: image and this, and this feels like a crack in 537 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: that image. 538 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 5: So now that Elon is a politician, essentially, I ask 539 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 5: you Max, years from now, are we going to reflect 540 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 5: on this scandal and say bigger, bigger than Watergate? Well, 541 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 5: you know, bigger than Iran Contra. If not Watergate, I 542 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 5: Ran Contra. 543 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: I don't know what this means for the Trump presidency. 544 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 2: This could be, as Josh Green suggested last week, this 545 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: could be the thing that brings the whole edifice down, 546 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: although probably not. I mean, it's honestly at Cecilia is 547 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: as she's saying, it's like it doesn't feel it doesn't 548 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 2: feel as morally clear cut as some other things. Although 549 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: it definitely does seem like he's not as cool of 550 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: a gamer as we thought he was. 551 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 5: Now Cecilia and the conversations out there that are happening 552 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 5: on this is must cheating or is he not? These 553 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 5: people that are that are jumping in and opening they 554 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 5: have big followings in social media? Correct? How big is 555 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 5: the community out there that's that's a buzz about this? 556 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: Oh? 557 00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: Millions? 558 00:28:59,600 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 5: Gosh? 559 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: I mean, Elon Musk got into a fight with a 560 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: very famous video game influencer who has millions of followers. 561 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, what remind us of the name. 562 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: His name is asmen Gold. He's a very controversial, very 563 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: famous gamer who's known for just sort of saying whatever 564 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: he thinks and feels. And what he thought and felt 565 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: was there's no way Elon Musk leveled up this account himself, 566 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: and asmen Gold said, I think he bought it, and 567 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: that led to a series of events that was really wild. 568 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: You know, Elon unfollowed asmen Gold and then the gamer's 569 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: account was unverified shortly after that, and then reverified not 570 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: long after. People started noticing. But it was like, what 571 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: is going on? How important is this to Elon to 572 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: seem like a top gamer. 573 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: I've said versions of this before, but I do think 574 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: Elon Musk he has had public flaws and there have 575 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: been scandals around him, and he has stepped in it 576 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: before and said things that are offensive before. But one 577 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 2: thing that feels different about this moment, in particular. 578 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 5: What about about the video. 579 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 4: About the video game thing? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm not 580 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 4: getting that far. 581 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: Afield, but that, like with if he loses the gamers, 582 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: I do think that hurts his kind of popularity and 583 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: his cool and this universe of sort of young men 584 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: that has been you know up to this moment, you know, really. 585 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 5: Saying, if he loses the Gamers, the Dems retake the 586 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 5: house in twenty I'm. 587 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 2: Saying, these commentators on the youtubes that we were listening 588 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 2: to should probably be calling the DNC right now looking 589 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: for jobs, because I think. 590 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 4: They may be more than anyone in our politics. Have 591 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 4: his number. 592 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 5: All right, Well, Cecilia Donastasio, thank you very much for 593 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 5: joining us, and when there are fresh developments, please come 594 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 5: back and tell us all about them. 595 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: Sure, thank you, Max. 596 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 5: Great having you on as always. I'll see you next week. 597 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 4: Great to be here, David. 598 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 5: This episode was produced by Stacy Wang. Anna Masa Rakus 599 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 5: is our editor and Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. The 600 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 5: idea for this very show also came from Rayhan Blake, 601 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 5: Maples Handels Engineering and Dave Purcell Factchecks. Our supervising producer 602 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 5: is Magnus Hendrickson. The elon Ing theme is written and 603 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 5: performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Brendan Francis Newnham 604 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 5: is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head 605 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,719 Speaker 5: of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to our 606 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 5: supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadopoulos. If 607 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 5: you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll 608 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 5: help other listeners find us. See you next week.