WEBVTT - Bright [3]

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<v Speaker 1>New episodes of Monster BTK are released every Monday and

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<v Speaker 1>brought to you absolutely free. But if you want to

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<v Speaker 1>hear the whole season right now, it's available ad free

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<v Speaker 1>on iHeart True Crime Plus. For more information, check out

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<v Speaker 1>the show notes. Enjoy the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>You're listening to Monster BTK, a production of iHeart Podcasts

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<v Speaker 2>and Tenderfoot TV. Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 3>We were trying to do our job as journalists, but

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<v Speaker 3>then we became part of the story, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>for a journalist, that's a terrible place to be as

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<v Speaker 3>part of the story. But there was no way to

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<v Speaker 3>get out of it. Because he enjoyed communicating with caketv

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<v Speaker 3>KTV was his favorite station. He had watched it since

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<v Speaker 3>he was a child. I have a postcard talking about

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<v Speaker 3>the communications which he wrote to Keke and it says.

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<v Speaker 1>I write this letter to you for the sake of

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<v Speaker 1>the taxpayer as well as your time. Those three dudes

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<v Speaker 1>you have in custody are just talking to get publicity

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<v Speaker 1>for the Otero murders. They know nothing at all. I

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<v Speaker 1>did it by myself and with no one's help. Ps.

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<v Speaker 1>Since sex criminals do not change their mo or by nature,

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<v Speaker 1>cannot do so. I will not change mine. The code

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<v Speaker 1>words for me will be bind them, torture them, kill them,

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<v Speaker 1>b t K. They will be on the next victim.

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<v Speaker 3>Someone killed four members of the family.

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<v Speaker 4>Had you vanished from her home suddenly last weekend? Her

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<v Speaker 4>phone lines had been cut, her door left open.

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<v Speaker 5>You see the victim playing there with plastic bags over

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<v Speaker 5>their heads, strangled. You could tell it was a plan scenario.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, police have said no more about the contents of

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<v Speaker 4>the letter. It does contain some sort of threat and

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<v Speaker 4>implies the killer may strike again.

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<v Speaker 3>He's gonna play with these victims. He'd get him to

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<v Speaker 3>the point of death and then bring them back and

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<v Speaker 3>then brings them back to the point of death.

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<v Speaker 6>From My Heart podcasts and Tenderfoot TV, I'm Susan Peters

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<v Speaker 6>and this is Monster BTK. In episode one, we covered

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<v Speaker 6>the brutal and tragic murders of the Otero family. On

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<v Speaker 6>January fifteenth, nineteen seventy four, BTK broke into the Otero

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<v Speaker 6>home on Edgemore Drive in Wichita, can He tied up

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<v Speaker 6>the parents, Joseph and Julie before strangling them. Then he

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<v Speaker 6>strangled their young son Joey, and hanged their daughter Josephine.

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<v Speaker 6>It was btk's first murder, and it hadn't gone smoothly.

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<v Speaker 6>The killer made many mistakes. He hadn't known the parents

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<v Speaker 6>would be home. His only intended target was young Josephine.

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<v Speaker 6>He feared he would be caught, but the police were

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<v Speaker 6>seemingly not on his trail. In the months following the

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<v Speaker 6>Otero murders, Dennis Rader obsessed over his work. He reveled

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<v Speaker 6>in the success of not getting caught, and he realized

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<v Speaker 6>just how much he enjoyed the thrill of killing. He

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<v Speaker 6>started training for his next kill. In the book Confession

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<v Speaker 6>of a Serial Killer, Rader says he started to get

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<v Speaker 6>in shape and he was inspired once again by something

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<v Speaker 6>he saw on TV.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw in a movie about a minotaur serial killer

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<v Speaker 1>toughening up the hands. I had a sports ball at home,

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<v Speaker 1>work in a vehicle to practice and exercise my hands.

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<v Speaker 1>Exercise with a handball helps blood circulation and to keep

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<v Speaker 1>the hands fit. There was excitement in trying something dangerous.

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<v Speaker 1>Then it happens, and afterward you wish it hadn't. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like playing in the quicksand there's fear and excitement, but

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<v Speaker 1>then you're stuck.

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<v Speaker 6>Raider was hungry. He wanted to try again. He thought

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<v Speaker 6>he could get it right. Next time. Shall be started

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<v Speaker 6>to prowl for his next project.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe in February or March the hunt began again.

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<v Speaker 1>I found it exciting to prowl a day or night.

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<v Speaker 1>It was very easy for me to spend a little

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<v Speaker 1>time after classes to prowl or day drive going to

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<v Speaker 1>classes worked well for me as a cover. I could

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<v Speaker 1>say I was at the library, or I could use

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<v Speaker 1>that time to prowl or stalk.

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<v Speaker 6>After looking around the Wichita State campus for weeks, Raider

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<v Speaker 6>finally found his next target.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was the day after classes or in between.

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<v Speaker 1>I spotted Bride arriving home with a friend, another female,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe a sister. She was at her mailbox. She fit

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<v Speaker 1>my fantasy profile, a co ed, dishwasher, blonde, small. I

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<v Speaker 1>saw her go in the house and I thought that's

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<v Speaker 1>a possibility.

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<v Speaker 6>Her name was Catherine Bright. Raider eventually discovered that she

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<v Speaker 6>lived nearby, at thirty two seventeen East thirteenth Street, less

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<v Speaker 6>than two miles from the Otto home. He named her

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<v Speaker 6>project Lights out Here again are Raider's words.

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<v Speaker 1>She became a true detective horror magazine hit Fantasy. Her

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<v Speaker 1>bedroom appeared to be in the center east. I was

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<v Speaker 1>planning on tying her up on the bed, either half

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<v Speaker 1>naked or totally. Then I would strangle her or suffocate her.

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<v Speaker 1>Her hands would be bound in front and tied to

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<v Speaker 1>her neck, like a true detective model I had seen.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to fantasize about women on the cover showing

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<v Speaker 1>terror in their eyes, bound hand up near her neck,

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<v Speaker 1>a man with a threatening knife overhead.

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<v Speaker 6>Just seventy nine days after the Otero murders, Dennis Rader

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<v Speaker 6>approached Bright's.

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<v Speaker 7>Home April four of nineteen seventy four. This was a

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<v Speaker 7>scene which isn't necessarily one that you would automatically assume

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<v Speaker 7>that it was connected to the ottos. My name is

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<v Speaker 7>Kevin O'Connor. I'm an assistant district attorney in Johnson County Now.

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<v Speaker 7>I was the deputy district attorney in witch Daw Sedgwick County,

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<v Speaker 7>Kansas during the Dennis Raider investigation. He was constantly trying

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<v Speaker 7>to trip the police up, so he was trying to

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<v Speaker 7>not connect it to the Otero's. Raider will break into

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<v Speaker 7>the house by smashing a window on the back, gaining entry.

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<v Speaker 7>He cleans up, and he waits.

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<v Speaker 6>Raider's plan was to force his way into Bright's home

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<v Speaker 6>by acting as a Wichita State student needing a quiet

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<v Speaker 6>place to study. But, as Kevin O'Connor says, there was

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<v Speaker 6>just one problem.

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<v Speaker 7>He is not anticipating that Catherine's brother, Kevin, will be

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<v Speaker 7>with her. Kevin Bright spent the night before with his

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<v Speaker 7>sister and there was snow, so he didn't go home.

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<v Speaker 6>Raider panicked. He improvised a fake story about how he

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<v Speaker 6>was a criminal on the run.

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<v Speaker 7>They will come back surprised by a and telling him

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<v Speaker 7>that he is on the run. He needs money in

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<v Speaker 7>a car, he needs a.

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<v Speaker 2>Little bit of food.

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<v Speaker 7>He will tell them they have the time to control them,

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<v Speaker 7>that they're not going to be heard. This crime goes

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<v Speaker 7>to hell in a handbasket pretty quickly. He loses control

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<v Speaker 7>of the situation.

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<v Speaker 6>Raider thought Catherine would be alone and easy to control.

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<v Speaker 6>For that reason, he brought no rope with him. He

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<v Speaker 6>had been planning to tie her up using pantyhose from

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<v Speaker 6>her dresser drawer. Pointing his gun at the siblings, he

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<v Speaker 6>marched them into the bedroom. In a rare CNN interview

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<v Speaker 6>from two thousand and five, Kevin Bright went into detail

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<v Speaker 6>about what happened next.

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<v Speaker 8>And then he forced me to tie my sister up

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<v Speaker 8>in the front bedroom, and then he took me into

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<v Speaker 8>the other bedroom and tied me up and laid me

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<v Speaker 8>down on the floor on my stomaching nodded up stocking

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<v Speaker 8>and started strangling me, and I fought and broke loose

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<v Speaker 8>and jumped up on my feet. He pulled a gun

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<v Speaker 8>from his waistband, and I knew he was gonna shoot me,

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<v Speaker 8>and I grabbed hold of his hand and arm and

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<v Speaker 8>pushed it back into his stomach and got my hand

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<v Speaker 8>on the gun and the trigger pulled it twice, and

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<v Speaker 8>he didn't go off for some reason. He jerked it

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<v Speaker 8>away from me and shot me first time there, and

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<v Speaker 8>then I went to the ground, and anyway, he left

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<v Speaker 8>for a while.

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<v Speaker 6>With Kevin Bright seemingly dead, Rader went back for Catherine,

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<v Speaker 6>who was tied up in the other room. He tried

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<v Speaker 6>to strangle her, but she fought back once again. Rader

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<v Speaker 6>was losing control of the situation. Meanwhile, Kevin Bright had

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<v Speaker 6>to listen as his sister was being strangled to death

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<v Speaker 6>in the other room.

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<v Speaker 8>And then he came back and grabbed a hold of me,

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<v Speaker 8>and he started strangling me again, and I fought again.

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<v Speaker 8>He shot me in the second time. I played like

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<v Speaker 8>I was dead, and he left again. And then I

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<v Speaker 8>looked around the room to see if there was any

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<v Speaker 8>kind of weapon that I could use against him, and

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<v Speaker 8>there wasn't anything there, and I just decided to go

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<v Speaker 8>for help. And so I was about fifteen feet from

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<v Speaker 8>the front door, and I got up and I went

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<v Speaker 8>out the front door, and there's two guys across the street,

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<v Speaker 8>two men, and one of them taking me to the

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<v Speaker 8>hospital and the other one called the police.

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<v Speaker 6>After Kevin escaped, Raider panicked. He started stabbing Catherine with

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<v Speaker 6>a knife over and over to make sure she was dead.

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<v Speaker 6>The police reports say she was stabbed eleven times. Here

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<v Speaker 6>are raiders words from confession of a serial killer.

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<v Speaker 1>I had no intention of stabbing anyone. Happened because I

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<v Speaker 1>lost control. That created a mess of blood everywhere on

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<v Speaker 1>my hands, pants, shoes. I made a vow if I

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<v Speaker 1>ever again had to confront to kill, there would be

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<v Speaker 1>no knife. It was a total mess because I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have control over it.

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<v Speaker 6>Raider had to move quickly after stabbing Catherine.

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<v Speaker 1>Since Kevin could id me. It wouldn't make a difference

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<v Speaker 1>if she was dead. I was afraid the police would

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<v Speaker 1>catch me or stop me. On Holyoake, I recalled that

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<v Speaker 1>I ran so hard and fast that my lungs hurt

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<v Speaker 1>for a day or two. Afterward from breathing the cold air.

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<v Speaker 6>Raider ran back to his car parked by the Wichita

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<v Speaker 6>State Campus. Catherine tried calling for help.

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<v Speaker 7>She's able to get to the phone. It's a wall

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<v Speaker 7>unit and the phone will be.

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<v Speaker 2>Off the hook.

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<v Speaker 7>That police report describing her and how that police officer

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<v Speaker 7>found her is heartbreaking as he describes her in trying

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<v Speaker 7>to breathe begging the police officer to help her.

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<v Speaker 6>The police report states that Officer Dennis Landon arrived at

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<v Speaker 6>the Bright home at two eight pm. Here's an excerpt

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<v Speaker 6>read by a voice actor.

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<v Speaker 2>Officer Landon approached the address of twenty three seventeen East

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<v Speaker 2>thirteenth Street and knocked at the screen door. The front

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<v Speaker 2>door was open. After receiving no response, Officer Landon looked

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<v Speaker 2>in through the open door and saw a female lying

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<v Speaker 2>in a pool of blood. The young woman was found

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<v Speaker 2>clutching a telephone in her hand. She was asked what happened,

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<v Speaker 2>but was unable to respond. When asked if she was hurt,

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<v Speaker 2>she pulled up a blouse, exposing her abdomen. The young

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<v Speaker 2>woman said she did not know her attacker. She was

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<v Speaker 2>able to give her name before beginning to pass out.

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<v Speaker 2>Officer Raymond Fletcher arrived and assisted in attending to Bright.

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<v Speaker 2>Upon his arrival, Officer Fletcher noticed that Bright was covered

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<v Speaker 2>in blood. In addition to the pool of blood underneath

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<v Speaker 2>her waist, Bright had blood on her hands, in her hair,

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<v Speaker 2>and on her face. Officer Fletcher noted that she was

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<v Speaker 2>bleeding from her left nostril and her face was badly bruised.

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<v Speaker 2>Bright grabbed Officer Fletcher's arm and repeated, I can't breathe

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<v Speaker 2>help me.

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<v Speaker 6>Both Kevin and Katherine were taken to Wesley Medical Center.

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<v Speaker 6>Kevin survived his gunshot wounds. However, his sister Catherine didn't

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<v Speaker 6>survive the attack. She died of her stab wounds just

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<v Speaker 6>a few hours later. Catherine was yet another innocent victim

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<v Speaker 6>of btk's malice. This one has always been difficult for

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<v Speaker 6>me to wrap my head around. Catherine was just a

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<v Speaker 6>college student looking forward to the next phase of her life.

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<v Speaker 6>To have that life cut short is a merciless injustice,

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<v Speaker 6>and for Kevin, the horror of remembering that dreadful day

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<v Speaker 6>was almost too much to bear. Even though he was

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<v Speaker 6>younger than his sister, he felt he should be the

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<v Speaker 6>protective brother, and when I was the first to interview

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<v Speaker 6>him thirty years later, the tears in his eyes were instant.

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<v Speaker 6>It still haunts him to this day that he could

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<v Speaker 6>not save his young sister's life. Last night, you and

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<v Speaker 6>your dad are talking, and thirty years later you're still

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<v Speaker 6>talking about what is Yeah, there's a reason for that.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, because well, sister shouldn't die Hamon. I was pry

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<v Speaker 8>that she didn't suffer very much, you know, it was

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<v Speaker 8>last hours, I don't know. And this prayer for all

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<v Speaker 8>the families that you know they can have healing. God

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<v Speaker 8>knows every movement you're making and knows that you're going

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<v Speaker 8>to answer one day, and that he offers, you know,

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.440
<v Speaker 8>he offers every one of us salvation.

0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.480
<v Speaker 6>For Katherine Bright, it was a terrible and tragic end

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 6>to a budding life, but for Rader, it was just

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 6>the beginning. Following the murder of Katherine Bright, Rader planned

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 6>his next move. Project lights Out had been a disaster.

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 6>Dennis returned home and tried to resume his normal family life,

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 6>but he couldn't shake the paranoia that his mistakes would

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 6>cost him. Here again are his words from the book

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 6>Confession of a Serial Killer.

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 1>When I saw the news releases about Bright, I knew

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Kevin was now a survivor and able to tell Catherine

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>had died. Kevin had described me. I was worried about Kevin.

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 1>He was Catherine's brother, I learned. I thought of maybe

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 1>trying to hit on Kevin at some point. I never

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.160
<v Speaker 1>could come up with a perfect plan.

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 6>On April twenty third, nineteen seventy four, just three weeks

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 6>after the attack on the Brites, police released a facial

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.920
<v Speaker 6>composite of the suspect based on Kevin's description. This is

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 6>former Wichita Police Chief Richard Lamonian.

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 5>All he could tell us it was a male, a

0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 5>white male, but he could not describe the individual.

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 3>He was very cooperative.

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.320
<v Speaker 5>We had professional psychiatrist psychologists work with him. But again,

0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 5>I really think he gave us all the information he

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 5>had because I don't think he really had an opportunity

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.560
<v Speaker 5>to even see what was going on.

0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 6>Raider, however, felt differently about Kevin's recollection.

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 1>He did give a fairly good description of me, and

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.600
<v Speaker 1>I thought the picture in the newspaper was uncomfortably close

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 1>to me. But no one ever came for me.

0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 6>According to Lemonion, police had a hard time connecting this

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:20.159
<v Speaker 6>crime to the Otero murders. Both were so messy and strange.

0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:25.199
<v Speaker 6>The Bright killing was clearly so poorly planned that it

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.199
<v Speaker 6>was tough to make heads or tails of.

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.840
<v Speaker 5>We assumed at that particular moment that that's probably just

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.159
<v Speaker 5>boyfriend love triangle. Who knows what it is. But it

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 5>was interrupted, so it was not connected at the time

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.920
<v Speaker 5>to the Otero murders. In those days, we probably had

0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:48.679
<v Speaker 5>a homicide rate forty forty five a year, so no

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.399
<v Speaker 5>homicides were not unusual, and we would clear ninety percent

0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.439
<v Speaker 5>of them, so a homicide like this would not have

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.959
<v Speaker 5>drawn a serial killer type mentality back to it.

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.360
<v Speaker 6>While police were struggling, Rader was relishing. In the chaos

0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:05.200
<v Speaker 6>and confusion.

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 1>As I gathered the news clippings on Catherine Bright, I

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.399
<v Speaker 1>taped a picture from a detective magazine to one of

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.200
<v Speaker 1>my Heidi Hole folders, the one that showed the girl

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.600
<v Speaker 1>with her hands in front, the way I had wanted

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 1>to do with Bright. I kept Bright's clippings inside and

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 1>even wrote a story I believe, possibly of a fantasy

0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>of her. The months slipped away, and I was pretty

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 1>sure I wasn't going to be caught for a lineup.

0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.560
<v Speaker 6>Rader had all sorts of these heidie holes in his home,

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.399
<v Speaker 6>where he would keep tokens from his victims or store

0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 6>his crew drawings and newspaper clippings. In July, six months

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.440
<v Speaker 6>after the Otero murders, four people in their early twenties

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 6>were killed following a small dispute. It was the second

0:18:56.240 --> 0:19:00.360
<v Speaker 6>quadruple homicide that year. All of Wichita was shaken up.

0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.360
<v Speaker 6>Nineteen seventy four had thus far been a hard year

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:09.040
<v Speaker 6>for violent crime. Police were scrambling to piece it all together.

0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 6>Police finally got a breakthrough in the Otaro case. In

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.800
<v Speaker 6>October of nineteen seventy four.

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.719
<v Speaker 5>We had arrested a couple of brothers named Seabring who

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.679
<v Speaker 5>admitted that they had killed the Otos.

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:29.240
<v Speaker 6>Gary Seabring was arrested on charges for an unrelated sexual offense.

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 6>While being questioned, Seabrings started spewing about the Oto murders.

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 6>According to the book Inside the Mind of BTK by

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.360
<v Speaker 6>John Douglas, Seabring would go on to tell police.

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.399
<v Speaker 9>If I was doing the Otos, this is how I

0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.919
<v Speaker 9>would have done it. It would have been with my

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.359
<v Speaker 9>brother and we would have tied them all up, and

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.960
<v Speaker 9>my buddy Thomas Myers would have been with us.

0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 6>This raised a few eyebrows, and the two brothers were

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 6>brought in his suspects in the Otero case.

0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 5>Of course, the news media picks upon it, and we've

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.680
<v Speaker 5>arrested the Otaro murderers and all things like that.

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.960
<v Speaker 6>The people of which tah were ecstatic. They believed the

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:20.280
<v Speaker 6>Otto murderer had been brought to justice. Seabring had a

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.239
<v Speaker 6>criminal history involving the sexual assault of a minor. On

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.800
<v Speaker 6>the surface, it seemed very plausible that he was the killer,

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 6>but police were skeptical of Sebring's knowledge of the case.

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 6>Investigators had Gary and his brother Ernest go through intense

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:44.880
<v Speaker 6>psychological evaluations, and they determined both men were mentally unstable,

0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:51.680
<v Speaker 6>prone to lying and inventing false scenarios. Additionally, police Chief

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.320
<v Speaker 6>Floyd Hannen determined that neither brother could be placed at

0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.920
<v Speaker 6>the scene of the Otero crime, and neither of them

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.119
<v Speaker 6>fit the description the man who was seen leaving the

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.400
<v Speaker 6>o'tara home. As for the friend, Thomas Myers, police had

0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:10.240
<v Speaker 6>trouble locating him at first, but after a week Myers

0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.840
<v Speaker 6>was brought into custody and also taken in for a

0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:19.880
<v Speaker 6>mental evaluation. Once again, the conclusion was clear. These men

0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 6>were not responsible.

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 5>The Seabring brothers were just pedophiles. It's what they were,

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 5>and they had other problems that they had. They weren't murders.

0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.159
<v Speaker 6>Raiders saw the false confession on the news and he

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 6>was not happy about this development.

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.359
<v Speaker 5>Once the media picked up on it, and then they

0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.520
<v Speaker 5>started putting information out that we had a suspect in

0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.800
<v Speaker 5>custody for it, that's what prompted it all. He didn't

0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 5>want someone else taking credit for his job.

0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.360
<v Speaker 1>Since I was in the mood of highness and attention

0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.840
<v Speaker 1>as the newspaper ran the story on the three men,

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.120
<v Speaker 1>I added it to my Heidi Hole folder on the oteros.

0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I wanted credit, not someone else. I also wanted taxpayers

0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:11.199
<v Speaker 1>not to spend endless dollars on false leads.

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.960
<v Speaker 6>A few days after the Wichita Eagle published its story

0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:20.439
<v Speaker 6>about the Seabring brothers, Dennis Rader called the front desk

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:25.159
<v Speaker 6>and asked to speak to Eagle columnist Don Granger. Here's

0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 6>what Granger remembers hearing over the phone.

0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Listen and listen good. I'm only going to say this once.

0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.879
<v Speaker 1>There is a letter about the Oteo case in a

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 1>book in the public library.

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 6>Granger was freaked out. He immediately called the Wichita Police.

0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.280
<v Speaker 6>He told them that the caller had the voice of

0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.560
<v Speaker 6>a timid Midwestern man, but he couldn't make out anything else.

0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:57.000
<v Speaker 6>Wichita PD Officer Bernie Drowaski went to the library that

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.679
<v Speaker 6>very day. He discovered up a duel your letter stuped

0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:07.600
<v Speaker 6>into a book titled Applied Engineering Mechanics. The letter was

0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:12.399
<v Speaker 6>riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors. Here is what it said,

0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 6>edited for clarity.

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Those three dudes you have in custody are just talking

0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:22.520
<v Speaker 1>to get publicity. They know nothing at all. I did

0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.520
<v Speaker 1>it by myself, with no one's help. I'm sorry this

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:29.280
<v Speaker 1>happened to the society. It's hard to control myself. You

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 1>probably call me psychotic with sexual perversion. Hang up. Where

0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.240
<v Speaker 1>this monster entered my brain? I will never know, but

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:43.440
<v Speaker 1>it's here to stay. How does one cure himself? If

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 1>you ask for help that you've killed four people, they

0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.720
<v Speaker 1>will laugh or hit the panic button and call the cops.

0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 1>I can't stop it, so the monster goes on and

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:59.120
<v Speaker 1>hurt me as well as society. Society can be thankful

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 1>that they're ways for people like me to relieve myself

0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:07.120
<v Speaker 1>at times by day dreams of some victim being tortured

0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 1>and being mine. It's a big, complicated game. My friend

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:16.439
<v Speaker 1>of the monster play putting victims down, following them, checking

0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:21.040
<v Speaker 1>up on them, waiting in the dark, wading, wagdhing. The

0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 1>pressure is great, and sometimes he run the game to

0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:29.960
<v Speaker 1>his liking. Maybe you can stop him. I can't. He

0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.680
<v Speaker 1>has already chosen his next victim or victims. I don't

0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 1>know who they are yet. The next day, after I

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 1>read the paper, I will know, but it will be

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.480
<v Speaker 1>too late. Good luck hunting.

0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 6>It was in this letter that the name BTK was born,

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 6>a three letter moniker that came to haunt which a

0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.879
<v Speaker 6>tall police.

0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Yours truly guilty ps. Since sex criminals do not change

0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 1>their mo or by nature, cannot do so, I will

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:11.399
<v Speaker 1>not change mine. The code words for me will be

0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:18.800
<v Speaker 1>bind them, torture them, kill them, BTK. They will be

0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 1>on the next victim.

0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:25.160
<v Speaker 10>He considered himself to be among the elite serial killers,

0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 10>and so he named himself BTK.

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.080
<v Speaker 6>This is Catherine Ramsland, the forensic psychologist who wrote a

0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:36.679
<v Speaker 6>book with and about Dennis Rader.

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.440
<v Speaker 10>He did not want to leave his name to chance

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:44.239
<v Speaker 10>and get something stupid. He wanted a powerful name, and

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.880
<v Speaker 10>it wasn't the only one. He gave them a few ideas,

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:51.440
<v Speaker 10>but because he had created an image for the BTK

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:55.600
<v Speaker 10>name as well, he stuck with that. He's one of

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:59.320
<v Speaker 10>the few who told police and journalists, here's what you

0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 10>should call me, and he enjoyed that. He enjoyed that

0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:05.120
<v Speaker 10>kind of cat and mouse game.

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:11.480
<v Speaker 1>By using BTK, torture, fantasy, writing, drawing, and what I

0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:14.520
<v Speaker 1>had planned to do. I wrote my own criminal epithet.

0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>If cocked, those words would hang me.

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 6>Carrie Rawson, Dennis Raider's daughter, talks about her father's lust

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 6>for notoriety.

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 4>He feeds off the fair because he wanted to be

0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:32.199
<v Speaker 4>remembered and known for what he had done. And he

0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:35.520
<v Speaker 4>talks about Ted and California and he's talking about son

0:26:35.560 --> 0:26:39.199
<v Speaker 4>of Sam. Well, He's in a smaller media market, so

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:42.800
<v Speaker 4>he wasn't getting the coverage that Bundy or Sam was.

0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:45.840
<v Speaker 4>He wanted to be known and he didn't like that

0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 4>these guys were taking credit and making it sound one

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 4>way when he knew the truth. So he writes into

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 4>the Eagle. It puts in a library book in the

0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:56.399
<v Speaker 4>public library where him I used to hang out all

0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:56.680
<v Speaker 4>the time.

0:26:56.760 --> 0:27:02.919
<v Speaker 6>Later on, Dennis Raider had the authority's attention. His plan

0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:04.760
<v Speaker 6>was working.

0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:10.080
<v Speaker 4>So he literally it's like giving them evidence because he's

0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 4>such a narcissist and he's enjoying that game.

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:27.879
<v Speaker 6>For Raider, the game was just getting started. The news

0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:31.800
<v Speaker 6>was settling on the police department. For the first time

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:36.879
<v Speaker 6>in history, Wichita was dealing with a bona fide serial killer.

0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:41.200
<v Speaker 5>In the first phase of this, I'm thinking to myself,

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:45.119
<v Speaker 5>what kind of a screwball is this? The fact is

0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 5>he's hurting people. He's actually killing innocent people in our community.

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 5>Our job is to put him away, get him off

0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:58.879
<v Speaker 5>the street. And as you read these things, this is

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 5>like a movie script. Kept it's not a movie. It's

0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 5>real people are dying. How can we resolve this? This

0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:10.159
<v Speaker 5>is going to be a long process and it's going

0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:11.119
<v Speaker 5>to take a lot of help.

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.720
<v Speaker 6>Police were initially unsure about what to do with btk's letter.

0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:19.520
<v Speaker 6>They thought if they went public with it, the city

0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:22.760
<v Speaker 6>might go into a frenzy and then it might embolt

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:24.960
<v Speaker 6>in BTK to kill again.

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 5>None of us had ever dealt with this. We reached

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:33.359
<v Speaker 5>out to departments that had dealt with serial killers. We

0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 5>reached out to the FBI, getting advice suggestions as to

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.560
<v Speaker 5>how we might proceed. We reached out to professionals here

0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 5>in Wichita and in the region, psychologists, psychiatrists to get advice,

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 5>to get direction as to what they had done, what

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:56.040
<v Speaker 5>worked best for them, and what we might do in

0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 5>the future.

0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.560
<v Speaker 6>It wasn't until a few days later that police came

0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:05.600
<v Speaker 6>up with a plan to respond to BTK. The response

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:08.480
<v Speaker 6>came in the form of a personal ad in the

0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 6>Wichita Eagle on October twenty seventh, calling on BTK to

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 6>reach out.

0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:21.880
<v Speaker 11>BTK Help is available call six four six six three

0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 11>one two one before ten pm.

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:32.320
<v Speaker 6>But the hotline never rang. On October thirty, First Eagle

0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:35.960
<v Speaker 6>columnist Don Granger ran his own article trying to get

0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:37.120
<v Speaker 6>btk's attention.

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:41.239
<v Speaker 12>For the past week, which Ada police have tried to

0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 12>get in touch with a man who has important information

0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 12>on the Otero murdered case, A man who needs help badly.

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:52.560
<v Speaker 12>You may have noticed the classified ad that ran at

0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 12>the top of our personal column Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday

0:29:57.800 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 12>and Tuesday. It read BTK help is available. There really

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 12>is a BTK. Police cannot say how they know, but

0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:14.719
<v Speaker 12>they are convinced BTK has information about the murder of

0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:19.480
<v Speaker 12>Joseph Vittero, his wife and two of his children. If

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:24.680
<v Speaker 12>for any reason, BTK doesn't want to talk to police,

0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:31.480
<v Speaker 12>this newspaper's secret witness procedure is available. I will go further.

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:36.040
<v Speaker 12>If BTK wants to call me at home, I can

0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:36.640
<v Speaker 12>be reached.

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 6>Granger's phone never rang either. On December eleventh, Wichita Sun

0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 6>reporter Kathy Hinkle published the BTK letter after getting her

0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:53.160
<v Speaker 6>hands on it from an unnamed source. Finally, the words

0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:58.320
<v Speaker 6>of this bizarre killer, we're out there for everyone to see.

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 6>Police Chief Lloyd Hannen had this to say, you know,

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:05.200
<v Speaker 6>Wichita beaconn article about btk's letter going.

0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:08.960
<v Speaker 12>Public, I think we've taken one hell of a risk

0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:10.160
<v Speaker 12>with the release of this letter.

0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 11>He might have to go out and commit this offense

0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 11>again to prove he committed this offense.

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.240
<v Speaker 12>He's a sick man who needs help.

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:23.440
<v Speaker 5>When this hit the news and it started picking up.

0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:27.479
<v Speaker 5>The whole community is afraid. I personally even had a

0:31:27.600 --> 0:31:32.400
<v Speaker 5>sister in law who was a single female. She's an adult,

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 5>but she's single, and she came out and lived with us.

0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:37.240
<v Speaker 5>She would not stay at her own home.

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:42.480
<v Speaker 6>In fact, it was like this all across Wichita. People

0:31:42.480 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 6>were installing heavy locks on their doors, women stopped going

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.480
<v Speaker 6>out alone. Everyone was scared.

0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:53.680
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it was a scary time for the community

0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:56.560
<v Speaker 5>and of course the department. I mean, you're getting all

0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 5>kinds of heat. What are they trying to do to

0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:04.080
<v Speaker 5>resolve this? And we're doing everything that we possibly can,

0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:08.440
<v Speaker 5>but it's a fear factor. How do you reconcile that

0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:11.560
<v Speaker 5>if you're afraid of something you perceive you're afraid of it.

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:15.280
<v Speaker 5>I can't give you enough reassurance that you're okay, because

0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:18.800
<v Speaker 5>you're not gonna believe it. The city actually came together,

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 5>I mean really did. Neighbor watching neighbor, everybody trying to

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.600
<v Speaker 5>watch out for each other. What neighbor would come home

0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:28.560
<v Speaker 5>and call their other neighbor and say, hey, I'm home.

0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 5>You know, I'm locking up. And we had a lot

0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 5>of calls, suspicious character type calls, and of course the

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 5>beat officers are in tune with this. They're doing their

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:41.520
<v Speaker 5>absolute best. They're stopping people. If you're in a neighborhood

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:44.240
<v Speaker 5>and you're out somewhere, we don't know who you are,

0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:45.320
<v Speaker 5>you're gonna get stopped.

0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:49.840
<v Speaker 6>Police were under a ton of pressure. They knew they

0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:53.480
<v Speaker 6>had to catch the sky and fast, and the fact

0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 6>that he had communicated was a good thing, albeit terrifying.

0:32:58.440 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 6>The letter meant they had a avenue to finding him.

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 5>The theory that we had was that if we can

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 5>communicate with him, he communicated with us. Obviously he's searching

0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:16.280
<v Speaker 5>for identification. He wants to be identified. The idea was

0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 5>that if we can keep him communicating, because we know

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:24.560
<v Speaker 5>he's fantasizing about what he's already done, and if we

0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:28.880
<v Speaker 5>can keep him occupied with that, perhaps there won't be

0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 5>another victim.

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:34.480
<v Speaker 6>But Rader was starting to realize he had put himself

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 6>at serious risk. He saw the newspaper article where the

0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:42.360
<v Speaker 6>BTK letter went public, He saw the law enforcement were

0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 6>actively pursuing him, and he got spooked. So at the

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:51.000
<v Speaker 6>end of nineteen seventy four, he cut off all communication

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:55.160
<v Speaker 6>and he decided to lay low. Here are his words

0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:57.080
<v Speaker 6>from Confession of a Serial Killer.

0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>I acted normal when Paul was present. I watched the

0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 1>news with interest, but not overly. I read the paper,

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:07.920
<v Speaker 1>but I did not cut out the articles until later.

0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:13.360
<v Speaker 1>I also became overly defensive. I watched the road outside

0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.680
<v Speaker 1>and had a loaded gun ready. I made sure our

0:34:16.760 --> 0:34:23.359
<v Speaker 1>locked windows were secure, probably like everyone else in Wichita.

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:27.520
<v Speaker 6>In the summer of nineteen seventy five, with the BTK

0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:32.080
<v Speaker 6>paranoia still a buzz, Wichita police found a strange note

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:35.799
<v Speaker 6>left at a crime scene. An elderly couple, John and

0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:39.200
<v Speaker 6>Emma Foster, were found stabbed to death in their home.

0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:44.560
<v Speaker 6>The mystery note left behind set off alarm bells. Police

0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:48.240
<v Speaker 6>Chief Floyd Hannon held a press conference just twenty four

0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 6>hours later. The following excerpt comes from a Wichita Eagle

0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 6>article dated July twenty ninth, nineteen seventy five.

0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:00.360
<v Speaker 13>Hannin said that the note was left at the scene.

0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 13>The police don't know who wrote it. He emphasized there

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:07.160
<v Speaker 13>was no reason to believe there was any connection between

0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 13>the notes writer and the person who wrote a letter

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.760
<v Speaker 13>to the Eagle Beacons secret Witness program.

0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:17.759
<v Speaker 6>In other words, this murder had nothing to do with BTK,

0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 6>but it shows that everyone in Wichita was on edge

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:27.160
<v Speaker 6>about the next BTK murder. They feared that any similar

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:32.160
<v Speaker 6>incident might be his handiwork. Every new murder or sexual

0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 6>assault was met with the question could this have been BTK?

0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:43.360
<v Speaker 6>But in truth Raider had started a new line of work,

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:49.120
<v Speaker 6>becoming a father. His first child, a boy, was named

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:54.920
<v Speaker 6>Brian Raider. But for Dennis, being a normal dad seemed impossible.

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:58.799
<v Speaker 6>In his mind, existing just as an average family man

0:35:59.200 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 6>was unthinkable. He was different and he knew it, as

0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:05.480
<v Speaker 6>he himself admitted.

0:36:06.440 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I love to hunt, prowling the streets looking for fair game.

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:13.840
<v Speaker 1>The cat and mouse game gave me an adrenaline rush

0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:14.440
<v Speaker 1>or hi.

0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:21.000
<v Speaker 6>As he built one identity, the other started to fester underneath,

0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:25.719
<v Speaker 6>almost like juckal and Hyde. This was Dennis Raider, the

0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:31.520
<v Speaker 6>so called normal suburban dad versus BTK, the serial killer.

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:36.160
<v Speaker 4>BTK is really more just another mask, using that to

0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:40.840
<v Speaker 4>power into rage and anger and controlling that into murder,

0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:43.640
<v Speaker 4>than to release that because it makes him feel better

0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:44.400
<v Speaker 4>about who he is.

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:50.080
<v Speaker 6>Carrie Rawson, daughter of Dennis Raider, She says the two

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.680
<v Speaker 6>versions of her dad are just sides up the same coin,

0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 6>and one side comes out when it needs to, not like.

0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:02.600
<v Speaker 4>A bipolar thing. He's always this, he's always Dennis Raider,

0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:06.319
<v Speaker 4>he's always Dad, he's always BTK, and then he just

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:09.040
<v Speaker 4>cubes and flips to show you what he wants you

0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.279
<v Speaker 4>to see.

0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:16.280
<v Speaker 6>Forensic psychologist Catherine Ramsland explains this phenomenon.

0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 10>That is that whole cubing thing. It's a way to

0:37:20.640 --> 0:37:26.200
<v Speaker 10>not be completely connected in your sense of morality. I

0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:29.959
<v Speaker 10>think each situation in which he found himself was real

0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:34.040
<v Speaker 10>to him, and he could easily live this double life

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:40.799
<v Speaker 10>because the more intense, exciting experience was murdering people. But

0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:45.400
<v Speaker 10>he also had what he called social obligations family church,

0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:49.640
<v Speaker 10>he was president of his church, congregation, his job, he

0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:52.400
<v Speaker 10>had things that he had to look to as well,

0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:56.360
<v Speaker 10>and he took those seriously. I think from the outside

0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:00.279
<v Speaker 10>anybody might say, how seriously could that be, given how

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:04.040
<v Speaker 10>he's really violating all of these things. I don't think

0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:06.680
<v Speaker 10>he thought of it as pretense at all. I think

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:09.279
<v Speaker 10>he thought of it as that's what I need to

0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:13.920
<v Speaker 10>do for myself. That's my little secret. I enjoy it

0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:18.439
<v Speaker 10>when I can do it, Otherwise I do this other thing.

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.000
<v Speaker 6>In these early days of nineteen seventy seven, Rader was

0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 6>still learning how to balance all of these conflicting emotions.

0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 6>According to Carrie, he had trouble holding it all together.

0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:35.920
<v Speaker 6>Little things like chores and hobbies just weren't enough to

0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:38.640
<v Speaker 6>keep his mind off his fantasies.

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 4>Later on we learn he was literally throwing himself into

0:38:43.239 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 4>stuff to distract him from murder. He needed to be

0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:49.960
<v Speaker 4>outside he could get uptid and angry and difficult and

0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:51.000
<v Speaker 4>controlling inside.

0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:56.480
<v Speaker 6>While Rader was struggling with his identity crisis, the people

0:38:56.520 --> 0:39:03.960
<v Speaker 6>of Wichita were wondering what happened to be tk newly

0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:07.840
<v Speaker 6>appointed police chief. Richard Lemonion was one of them.

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:11.760
<v Speaker 5>In nineteen seventy six, I was appointed as police chief.

0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:15.120
<v Speaker 5>I was thirty six years old. I was the youngest

0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 5>police chief in the history of the department on major

0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:23.080
<v Speaker 5>cases like this. Here, the investigators briefed me on everything

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:24.960
<v Speaker 5>that we had, and then I had a much better

0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:29.680
<v Speaker 5>understanding of what evidence we did have, what was available

0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:33.719
<v Speaker 5>to us, and where they were in their investigation. And

0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:36.200
<v Speaker 5>at that particular time, they were pretty much at a

0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:39.240
<v Speaker 5>dead end. We hadn't heard from him for a long time,

0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 5>and you know, their thinking is maybe he's gone, maybe

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:46.200
<v Speaker 5>he's dead, maybe he's in prison. They literally had followed

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:51.360
<v Speaker 5>every lead that they could humanly follow, and I remember

0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:54.759
<v Speaker 5>we were getting advice from the FBI and others that

0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:58.319
<v Speaker 5>if he was alive, he was still killing. If he

0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:02.760
<v Speaker 5>wasn't still killing, then he he was still fantasizing.

0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:11.600
<v Speaker 6>It took him years, years of waiting, planning, thinking of

0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:15.880
<v Speaker 6>ways to do it better. But finally, in nineteen seventy seven,

0:40:16.320 --> 0:40:22.040
<v Speaker 6>three years since his last murder, someone caught his eye.

0:40:22.320 --> 0:40:25.960
<v Speaker 1>She was completely random. There was actually someone across from

0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Dylan's who might have been the potential. It was called

0:40:29.800 --> 0:40:33.759
<v Speaker 1>Project green or Greenwood. I had met this girl, I

0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:36.840
<v Speaker 1>think at WSU. I knew where she lived.

0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:42.680
<v Speaker 6>Dylan's was a nearby supermarket. He spotted her and followed

0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:48.040
<v Speaker 6>her home multiple times. He decided he was ready she

0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:53.360
<v Speaker 6>was the one. On March seventeenth, nineteen seventy seven, he

0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:58.120
<v Speaker 6>approached her door and something unexpected happened.

0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:03.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, but nobody answered. While I was walking away

0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:06.439
<v Speaker 1>from the intended house, I saw a young boy coming

0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:09.680
<v Speaker 1>back from Dylan's. I figured he had a mother in

0:41:09.719 --> 0:41:12.840
<v Speaker 1>the house. I watched where he went, and then I

0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:16.120
<v Speaker 1>went to the door and knocked. The boy opened the

0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:17.200
<v Speaker 1>door with his brother.

0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:20.480
<v Speaker 3>My name is Steve Ralford.

0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:26.080
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna be k K Shurbiv Danish writer Right my

0:41:26.120 --> 0:41:27.640
<v Speaker 5>mom knocking Kevin seven?

0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:37.840
<v Speaker 6>Next time on Monster bet K, there's a.

0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:41.320
<v Speaker 5>Crack any door whare look out him?

0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:44.840
<v Speaker 1>A mom Pleton. She told the kids to do whatever

0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:48.080
<v Speaker 1>I said. I tied the door shut, but the kids

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:48.960
<v Speaker 1>were still yelling.

0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:52.480
<v Speaker 5>The big thing that weighs on you is the fact

0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:54.160
<v Speaker 5>that this is gonna happen again.

0:41:54.640 --> 0:41:57.000
<v Speaker 3>He's going to determine whether or not you're gonna live, when.

0:41:56.840 --> 0:41:57.480
<v Speaker 9>You're gonna die.

0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:01.200
<v Speaker 3>He's gonna play with these victims. There's no manuel written

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:05.280
<v Speaker 3>on how to react when you become part of the story.

0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:09.120
<v Speaker 5>When we announced the fact that we did as serial killer,

0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.040
<v Speaker 5>we had a hundred tips.

0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:14.000
<v Speaker 4>He's making your life uncomfortable. Night later we said it

0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:16.240
<v Speaker 4>was like walking on inkshells at times with him.

0:42:16.440 --> 0:42:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh Anna, why didn't you appear?

0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:30.799
<v Speaker 2>Monster bt K is a production of Tenderfoot TV and

0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 2>iHeart Podcasts. The show is written by Nomes Griffin, Trevor

0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Young and Jesse Funk. Our host is Susan Peters. Executive

0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:45.319
<v Speaker 2>producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV include Donald Albright and

0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Payne Lindsay, alongside supervising producer Tracy Kaplan. Executive producers on

0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:55.399
<v Speaker 2>behalf of iHeart Podcasts include Matt Frederick and Trevor Young,

0:42:56.200 --> 0:43:01.080
<v Speaker 2>alongside producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk and supervising producer

0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Rima Ilkali. Marketing support by David Wasserman and Alison Wright

0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:10.879
<v Speaker 2>at iHeart Podcasts and Caroline or Agemma at Tenderfoot TV.

0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Additional research by Claudia Dafrico, original artwork by Kevin Mister

0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Soul Harp, original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Special

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:25.640
<v Speaker 2>thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum and the team at UTA and

0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:30.239
<v Speaker 2>the Nord Group. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV,

0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:35.360
<v Speaker 2>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:38.120
<v Speaker 2>to your favorite shows. Thanks for listening.