WEBVTT - Tech News: Facebook Researchers Dunk on Facebook 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.720 Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.880 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:19.919 and a lot of all things tech. And this is 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:25.439 the Tech News for Thursday, September twenty one. And our 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.760 first story is a big one. It's probably gonna take 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.440 the whole first section because there's a lot to say, 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.599 and then there's Jonathan's take on it as well, So 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.519 let's get to it. The Wall Street Journal published an 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.680 article this week revealing that their journalists got to see 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.800 a report about Instagram that is concerning, to say the least, 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.639 while also confirming a lot of commonly held suspicions. Now, 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.800 I think most of us have at least a sense 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.480 that social media can lead us to place unrealistic expectations 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.080 on us in the lives we lead. A lot of 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.080 people have written or talked about the tendency for folks 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.080 to put forward an idealized version of themselves online, like 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.400 it's not the real them, it's an idealized version of them. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.759 It makes their lives out to seem more dramatic, more exciting, 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.600 and lush than they really are, and Instagram, but it's 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.720 focus on pictures is particularly bad about this. A picture 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.720 tells a thousand words, but you know, a lot of 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.960 those words tend to be Look how awesome I am, 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.440 or how awesome my house is, or how awesome this 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:34.759 vacation spot is now. Facebook representatives, including Mark Zuckerberg himself, 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.400 have frequently told the public and the United States Congress 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.880 that the benefits of social media include a boost to 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.959 mental health because they allow us to be part of 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.880 communities and to connect with people that we care about. 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.640 And that narrative might seem fairly convincing, particularly during COVID 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.600 times when a lot of us have had few or 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.520 possibly no opportunities to see people we used to hang 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.360 out with, you know, before COVID. But the report that 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.800 Wall Street saw confirmed suspicions that Instagram can have devastatingly 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:15.280 harmful effects to mental health, particularly for teenage girls. And 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.560 this report didn't come from some third party research group 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.200 that you might suspect was applying confirmation bias to the investigation. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.600 By that, I mean if you have a group that 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.400 has an agenda like they expect to find something bad, 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.119 then they often will look for something bad, and they'll 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.800 ignore anything that is contrary to that particular you know, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:42.320 sort of prejudice. But in this case, the investigation report 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.960 came from inside Facebook itself. Researchers in the company studied 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.280 the effects of Instagram on behavior and mental health and 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.680 found that nearly a third of all teenage girls who 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:58.320 are on Instagram traced serious issues with self image, confidence, 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:03.800 and mental health to their participation with Instagram. So let's 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.240 make some very rough estimates here, just again idea of 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.880 how many people we could be talking about. So Instagram 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.919 reportedly has around one billion users. That's billion with a B. Now, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.800 more than of those users are no older than twenty two. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.000 That's more than but let's just cut it at that 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.920 gives us four million users who are twenty two or younger. Now, 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.920 let's assume about half of those are women. Statistic, by 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.600 the way, estimates that women make up more than it's 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.280 more like fifty one. But we're doing kind of a 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:45.240 pen on a napkin style estimation here. So that means 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.800 two hundred million young women and girls are using Instagram. Now, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:54.200 let's say that of that number are older than teenagers. Okay, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.800 so one fifth of that number. This is just me 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.960 saying this that one fifth of them are aged twenty 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:04.680 or older. That's probably a generous estimate. It's probably fewer 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.560 than that, but I'm just doing this for the purposes 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.280 of illustrations. That would leave us with one sixty million 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.280 teenage girls. And the report said that around thirty two 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.719 of the girls that were you know, part of the 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.919 study said they ended up experiencing a negative impact on 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.560 their mental health that they attributed to their participation on Instagram. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.960 So that means more than if we apply this across 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.520 the board and say that is representative, that would mean 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.039 that more than fifty one million teenage girls could be 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:39.239 struggling with mental health problems. They're the very least exacerbated 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.159 by their time on Instagram. By the way, it gets worse. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.320 Those mental health issues can ripple into other dangerous and 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:52.800 catastrophic consequences, everything from developing eating disorders or even leading 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:59.599 to suicidal thoughts. Fifty one million teenage girls, and again 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.360 that's a rough estimate, and I took some pretty conservative 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.760 shortcuts getting there. Okay, so what's actually leading to the 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.800 issues that we're seeing with mental health? One possible contributor, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:16.040 and again we're talking about possibilities. Here would be a 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.560 tendency called social comparison, and that's exactly what sounds like. 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.320 It's when you see the depiction of someone else's life 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.040 and then you compare your own life to that person's life, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.920 and you come back with like a negative feeling about 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.359 your own situation. So maybe it's an influencer who looks 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.200 like they're in phenomenal shape. This happened to me. I'm 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.760 not a teenage girl. I'm a middle aged man. But 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:42.120 when I started on my fitness journey, which I totally 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.560 have fallen off of because COVID and then a lack 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.160 of resolve I'll say on my part. Anyway, when I 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.039 was on that journey, I actually looked at some Instagram 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.880 accounts that were about fitness, which meant that Instagram was 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.800 serving up tons of different pictures of people who were 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:05.760 insane shape. I mean Greek statues would be jealous of them, uh. 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.279 And so I was inundated with images of people who 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.960 were in much better shape than I was, some of 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.000 which appeared to suggest that they got there in a 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.839 very short amount of time. Obviously, this stuff can be 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.920 rather than motivating, discouraging, right, Like if I'm seeing people 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.520 who are like, yeah, you just must not be doing 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.680 it right because I got to where I am in 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.280 three weeks or something like that, some ludicrous explanation that 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.640 can be very discouraging to me. Well, that's just one example. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.039 Or maybe the influencer is wearing designer clothing. Maybe they're 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.920 hanging out in gorgeous locations. I mean, how many times 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.520 have you opened Instagram and just browse stuff and saw 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:47.320 incredibly hot people hanging out on yachts or by pools 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.520 and stuff like that. In fact, I mentioned influencers. We 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:55.400 do have an entire profession called influencer that is geared 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.240 toward that kind of experience to project this pick sure 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.720 of idealization, and their whole job is to influence you, 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.279 to convince you that they're living out their best life 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.760 and that they're being showered with amazing products and trips 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.200 and stuff, and that your life could be better if 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.680 it was more like their life. And then you've got 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.320 the issue with people getting obsessed over numbers on Instagram, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.080 like how many followers they might have, or how many 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.840 likes a post gets or how many comments of post receives. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.440 And again, if we look at influencers, we see them 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.360 constantly trying to prompt engagement, often by including sort of 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.000 some sort of question as a caption for a photo. 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:40.200 So I happen to really like cool cosplay. Instagram profiles 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.239 people who put in tons of work and make incredible costumes, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.200 so I get a mix of all sorts of cosplayers 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:51.320 served up. Now, some of these cosplayers, will you know, 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.360 end up posting provocative images, maybe something a bit steamy. Right. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.600 Then they'll include a caption that might say something like 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.440 cheezburgers or hot dogs, which could possibly have nothing to 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.640 do with the image itself, but that gets people commenting, 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.160 because increased engagement is currency for influencers. Heck, I remember 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.480 when some influencers were using the trick of spell out 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.080 such and such in the comments letter by letter, meaning 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.360 that you would post each letter in order as a 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:24.560 separate post as a separate comment in order to prove something. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.360 I guess that was really just a trick to kind 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.280 of get more comments, because if you get a high 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.760 comment count as an influencer, your price tag starts to 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.960 go up for brands. Right. Meanwhile, people who are comparing 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.520 themselves against these sorts of influencers may start to feel 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.840 really badly about themselves, like they're not popular, that something's 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.360 wrong with them, and Instagram reinforces that experience again and again. Worse, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.560 Instagram has a vicious cycle built into it because so 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.840 many young people use Instagram to interact with their peers. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.199 It's almost as if being on the platform is necessary 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.559 just to take part in socialization with your peer group, 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.960 and the experience, even when negative, can lead to compulsive 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.800 use of the platform. It's like, you can't quit it 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.360 because you need it. Now, I'm not just spouting off 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.760 my own opinions here, although I'm doing a bit of 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.720 that too. According to The Wall Street Journal, that internal 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.320 report that Facebook researchers generated backs a lot of this 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.640 stuff up. The researchers generated that report back in the 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:32.000 spring of twenty twenty. But wait, it gets worse because 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.320 in the spring of this year, twenty twenty one, Mark 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:39.280 Zuckerberg said at a congressional hearing that essentially their research 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.240 indicated that social platforms like Instagram have a benefit of 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.120 positive effect on mental health, which is the exact opposite 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.400 of what this internal report found. Now, again, it's an 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:55.079 internal report. Facebook did not share this outside the company, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.240 so I don't think you can say that Facebook in general, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.480 like executives in general, were on a aware of it. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.000 Possibly Zuckerberg was unaware of it. I mean, maybe this 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.480 is like a case with Independence Day where the president 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.680 isn't told about the alien at area fifty one for 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:15.440 the purposes of plausible deniability. Maybe that happened. I doubt it, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.199 but maybe Anyway. Congress people had already remarked on how 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.600 Zuckerberg seemed evasive when answering questions, like he was trying 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.760 to find ways to talk around things without actually addressing them, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.520 and that had already raised concerns even before the existence 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.920 of this report was known. But this report confirms that 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:38.280 those concerns were well narrated and to make matters even worse. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:44.360 Even knowing this, even knowing the potentially disastrous effect the 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.320 experience of being on Instagram can have on young people, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.720 Facebook has been hard at work to develop an aversion 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.079 for Instagram for kids under the age of thirteen. Now, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.240 let that settle in for a bit. You have a 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.080 company knowing that its product can have harmful effects on 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.680 young girls, they have a whole report about it, and 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:09.360 they're working to make a product for even younger ones. Also, 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.360 I should add that while the report focuses on young girls, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.000 those are not the only people have a negative impact 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.200 from this stuff. I mean, I just mentioned that I 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.520 experienced this on a certain scale, so it can affect 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.199 people of all genders and ages. The teen girls appear 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.120 to be, you know, as a as a population, slightly 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.800 more vulnerable to this sort of influence, but that doesn't 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.360 mean they they're the only ones who end up feeling 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.040 lesser than after spending time on Instagram. It happens to 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.200 a lot of people. So then the question comes down 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.240 to what is to be done about this? Now? I 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.760 suspect that without intense external pressure, not much is going 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.520 to change a Facebook and Instagram. Uh. Facebook really hasn't 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.440 seemed to take any massive steps towards reducing the harm 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:59.199 it causes unless public opinion, political pressure, or most effectively 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:03.480 and most telling lee pressure from advertisers has forced it 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.840 to do so. Facebook is a heck of an example 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.440 of a capitalist organization gone to the extreme, in which 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.840 the primary purpose of the organization is to return value 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.400 to shareholders and everything else is secondary or maybe not 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.520 even a consideration. That being said, democratic lawmakers here in 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.320 the United States are starting to apply that kind of 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.080 pressure right now. In fact, today they've been calling on 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.640 Zuckerberg to give up on this idea of an Instagram 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.720 app for kids. There's also talk of another massive investigation 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.440 into the company, and armed with this internal report, I 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.760 think Zuckerberg is destined for another very uncomfortable hearing in 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.760 front of Congress. But for most of us, I think 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.199 the study shows that parents really need to be aware 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.240 of these influences and to take an active role in 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.960 helping their children with stuff like self esteem and confidence, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.360 and an understanding that the representations we see of people 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:02.120 online are often a fabrication and are not reflective of reality, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.960 nor are they reflective of a person's value. We need 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.320 to educate everyone that the reason most of this content 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:14.120 that falls into this kind of harmful tendency usually is 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.400 meant to ultimately serve one of a couple of different 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.480 purposes that are tightly related. Now, often it's all in 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.840 the effort to sell you something. Now, it might be 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.720 a specific branded product, or the thing on sale might 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.760 actually be the brand of the person who's sharing the 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:34.120 content themselves, or it could be to boost a person's status, 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.120 essentially saying look and how amazing my life is because 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.920 I'm the best. But either way, understanding that the images 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.760 that you see are not necessarily showing you what's really 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.760 going on, and also that the reason that these images 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.720 exist is to push out a specific branding message, all 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.720 of that is helpful. I mean, I see this everywhere obviously, 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.680 like this this tendency, especially in relation to Instagram. It's everywhere, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.400 like there are plenty of pop up experiences that really 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.000 only exist for the purposes of people to take selfies 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:10.160 at them and to kind of generate this image of 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.240 a fun experience. But the whole experience is just about 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.760 taking those selfies. Like there's nothing, there's nothing more substantive 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.080 to the experience that that's all it is. It's just 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.400 surface level that in itself may not, you know, be 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.040 harmful on the face of it, but it contributes to 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.640 this tendency I'm talking about. Also, the report found that 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.520 most other social platforms don't have nearly the same negative 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.800 impact as Instagram. Stuff like TikTok tends to be focused 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.600 more on performance than on appearance. Stuff on Snapchat tends 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.880 to feature lots of ridiculous filters, and these things don't 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.560 seem to contribute as much of a negative effect on 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:55.560 mental health. So long long coverage of that one story. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.320 But I think this one is really important. I don't 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.760 think it was quite enough for me to of a 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.360 full episode dedicated to it unless I get an expert in, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.240 but I really wanted to talk about it because it's 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:12.080 it's pretty damning that Facebook had its own internal report 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.720 that said these things, and yet outwardly the company has 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:19.360 behaved as if everything it does is fine, when that 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.680 is patently not the case, and they know it, and 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.400 that's the worst part. All Right, We're gonna go and 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.360 take a break, and when we come back, we'll have 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:39.960 some other unrelated tech news. On Tuesday's episode this week, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.000 I mentioned that Apple was about to hold its iPhone 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.520 thirteen event, but at that point it had not yet 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.280 done so as I was recording the show. Obviously it's 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.280 happened since then, and some of you may know all 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.520 about this, But really the big surprise at the event 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.240 was that some of the stuff that was rumored to 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.000 be featured, like a really big update to the Apple 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.200 Watch and new air pods, uh, those actually weren't part 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.480 of the show. I mean, there was a new Apple Watch, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.080 but the The big changes that had been rumored uh 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.680 ended up being just a slightly larger screen and a 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.800 couple of new features, but nothing like the redesign that 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.240 folks were expecting. Uh, you know, nothing dramatic. The new 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.160 watch looks fairly close to the previous ones. It's a 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.920 little bigger with the screen, and the air pods with 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.720 the rumored shorter stems were a no show at the event. 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.680 There are also rumors about the iPhone itself, a big 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.560 one being that Apple was going to build in some 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.600 sort of satellite cell phone feature so that there would 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.320 be a transmitter where you could actually make a satellite 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.040 phone call if you had to. Now, you wouldn't normally 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.040 use the satellite system. There are issues with latency. It 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.280 tends to be a really expensive kind of thing to do. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.040 But according to these rumors, you would be able to 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.080 make use of this feature if you happen to be 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.320 in an area that had no cell service. So that way, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:58.960 if you need to make an emergency phone call but 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.200 you weren't close to a cell tower or a WiFi hotspot, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.640 you can do it. But that ended up not being 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.240 part of the announcements either. So what we did get 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:12.480 were new iPhones with new A fifteen bionic chips powering them. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:16.600 That's a proprietary chip from Apple, a new dual camera system, 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.280 and the two pro models support a one hurts refresh 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.720 rate for the screen. Now that means that the screen 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.200 refreshes on times per second. The iPad also got a facelift. 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.840 But yeah, you know, the announcements were fairly modest in nature. Honestly, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.760 I wonder if it actually benefits Apple to keep holding 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.800 these big marketing events unless there happens to be something 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.480 that's going to really blow people's socks off, because the 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:47.240 company set expectations ridiculously high with big reveals, you know, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.280 a decade ago or more, and now there's a tendency 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.720 for folks to say, oh, that's it, even even if 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.520 the stuff that Apple is showing is an improvement over 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.240 previous models, because you know, it's not like a show 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.960 stopper kind of thing. But hey, I mean, it's a 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.200 two trillion dollar company and the folks running it are 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.399 way smarter than I am, so I'm sure I'm just 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.840 not seeing the big picture. In the past, I've talked 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.399 about the N s O Group a few times on 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.800 this show. That's the Israeli company famous for developing a 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:24.560 malware tool that exploits security vulnerabilities and Apple's Eye message program. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.600 And just to be clear, that's not the only company 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.359 to take aim at I message and create exploits. An 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.600 American company called Acuvant once upon a time did the 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.600 same thing. Now use the past tense here because Acuvant 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.440 subsequently found itself absorbed into a larger company called Optive, 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.680 and reportedly Optive is out of the exploit development game, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.400 but Acuvant was very much in that game, using security 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.959 experts to not just find vulnerabilities in various software platforms, 0:18:55.280 --> 0:19:00.720 but to develop exploits that leveraged those vulnerabilities, then selling 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.600 those as products to various other entities, usually government agencies. 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.760 So while I heap a lot of criticism on n 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.080 s O Group, which you know, does a similar thing 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.760 with the blessing and restrictions of the Israeli government, we 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.479 are seeing the same sort of thing going on in 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.080 other parts of the world, including here in the United States. Anyway, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:21.800 I bring all this up because the m I T 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.520 Technology Review reports that the U. S. Department of Justice 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.560 recently find three former U S intelligence and military personnel 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.320 for working for the United Arab Emirates without US permission 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:38.520 in what was called Project Raven. The operatives were using 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.520 this exploit, they had purchased it from Acuvant, and then 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.600 they were acting as mercenaries. They were deploying the exploit 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.520 on behalf of the U A E. And reportedly the 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:54.280 list of targets included American citizens and companies. Uh. And 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.560 you know that's a big no no working on behalf 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.880 of a foreign government when you're a U. S citizen 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.200 without you know, the consent of the United States government. 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.480 The finds amounted to a little less than one point 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:10.080 seven million dollars. I'm assuming that's collectively, but the m 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.639 I T Technology Review Report was not specific, so to 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.320 be clear, the focus here is on the three and 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:22.120 that investigation, and there's not really any investigation into optave 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.120 or the former equivant. So if you take it like that, 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.480 you know, you could say, oh, well, the government says 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.119 it's okay if for your companies to develop tools that 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:35.680 specifically exploit some other company's product, you know, I message 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.240 from Apple in this case, it's just not okay to 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.280 take that same product and then work with a foreign government. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.520 Pretty weird world we live in anyway. I Message, as 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:50.440 the Technology Review points out, is a very popular destination 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.399 for malware because Apple includes it on every iPhone, so 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.600 the install base is on every single iPhone that's out 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.320 there and you can't uninstall it. Anyone using an iOS 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.120 device with your phone number can send you a message 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.840 on I Message, and I Message automatically accepts those incoming messages, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.280 doesn't matter if you don't recognize the number or not. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.119 So if you build in what's called a zero click exploit, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.280 that's an exploit that doesn't need someone to click on 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.000 a link or open up a file or anything like that, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.320 it just infects malware as long as there's a hit. Well. 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.120 That means you can have one of these compromise your 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.240 phone just because you receive the message on I Message. 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.400 Apple has patched the vulnerabilities and I Message a couple 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.920 of times, including a patch called blast Door, but hackers 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.480 are always looking for other cracks in the security around 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.080 the app, and it's a constant seesaw battle between developers 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.919 and hackers. In addition to that, one of those three 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.720 people that have been fined by the US government for 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.520 this thing is Daniel Garrick, who currently serves as the 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:58.919 Chief Information Officer or c i O of Express VPN, 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.520 now the v The end company says it was aware 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.720 of Garrick's previous activities before they hired him, that he 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.480 was completely transparent about that, and that might sound surprising, 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.520 but then the company said that his experience was what 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.320 made him valuable to the company. So VPNs, or virtual 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:19.359 private networks, are a way for people to log into 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:24.119 one system in order to access other systems privately. Uh Effectively, 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.359 it masks your activities between you and whichever end server 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.919 you're trying to access. The VPN is kind of like 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.760 the man in the middle in this case, and they're 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.920 you know, encrypting everything so that snoopers don't know what 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.560 it is you're actually doing. Anyway, Express VPN's stance was 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.919 that Garrick's experiences meant he understood security vulnerabilities because he 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.680 had been searching for them and then exploiting them. So 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.119 this could help the company build more effective tools to 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.359 protect security and privacy, because who do you want on 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.600 your team other than, you know, the person who knows 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.160 how to break those thingsings And that definitely makes sense 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.440 from that perspective. Now, the bit about him working as 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.040 a mercenary for a foreign government seems a bit much 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.199 to me, but I get the concept of wanting to 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.520 find someone to put on your team who has experience 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:18.920 of familiarity with exploits. A few weeks ago, I talked 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.400 about how employees at Activision Blizzard had brought forth charges 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.679 relating to a toxic work culture within the company and 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.959 had been part of that company for years, including charges 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:33.080 of sexual harassment and assault, as well as a tendency 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.200 for the company to protect certain employees accused of perpetrating 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:41.120 or encouraging some truly awful behavior. There are also charges 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:46.040 of general gender discrimination, like women getting paid significantly less 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:49.240 for doing the same job as their male counterparts. Now 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:52.800 the company is in the news again because the Communications 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:57.280 Workers of America or c w A alleges that Activision 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:03.040 Blizzard intimidated employees in an to prevent unionization. In other words, 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.920 they didn't want their employees to band together to form 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.960