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Speaker 1: There were many times in Afghanistan when I contemplated life

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Speaker 1: and death. In fact, as my combat deployment wore on,

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Speaker 1: I thought about it more and more, especially in those

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Speaker 1: quiet moments just back from a mission cycle in my hooge,

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Speaker 1: by myself alone with my thoughts. I survived today, Will

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Speaker 1: I survive tomorrow? If you focus on that question too much,

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Speaker 1: will I survive tomorrow? It will drive you crazy. I've

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Speaker 1: seen men become so obsessed with it that it handicaps

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Speaker 1: your ability to not just operate effectively in the field,

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Speaker 1: but everything. It colors how you think. Pervasive anxiety and

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Speaker 1: fear take over. It's utterly paralyzing, so many of us

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Speaker 1: learn to stop asking it all together. In fact, many

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Speaker 1: of us had to convince ourselves that we were dead already,

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Speaker 1: that it was only a matter of time and a

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Speaker 1: question of how it would happen. When this reality set in,

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Speaker 1: we functioned better in combat. Fear didn't color our decisions.

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Speaker 1: There was no hesitation. The only thing that mattered was

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Speaker 1: the man to your left and right and doing everything

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Speaker 1: you could to make it back to the base home

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Speaker 1: alive and win the day. About six months into my tour,

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Speaker 1: I started thinking a lot about legacy. What would happen

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Speaker 1: if I die? How would my family and friends react.

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Speaker 1: They'd be sad for a time, sure, but after a

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Speaker 1: while would they forget about me? Would they miss me?

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Speaker 1: If I was killed in action? I had no kids

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Speaker 1: to carry on without me to help keep my memory alive.

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Speaker 1: Death seemed so final, and I will admit that that

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Speaker 1: prospect scared the hell out of me. Then I started

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Speaker 1: thinking about how many thousands of Americans had these same

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Speaker 1: exact thoughts as me. Those who came before me who

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Speaker 1: served on hundreds of battlefields all over the world in

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Speaker 1: defense of freedom, Those men and women who were forever

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Speaker 1: changed by their experience of war who then had to

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Speaker 1: somehow come home and survive and make something of themselves.

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Speaker 1: Or those Americans who never made it home. God rest

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Speaker 1: their souls. There were so many times I tried to

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Speaker 1: process the enormity of this, both in Afghanistan and after

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Speaker 1: I came home. I have to say I still think

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Speaker 1: about it, the legacy of those who came before me

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Speaker 1: in my generation, the sacrifices those men and women made

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Speaker 1: on the altar of freedom for us, and the idea

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Speaker 1: that we truly stay and on the shoulders of giants,

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Speaker 1: and we should remember them in that great sacrifice. We

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Speaker 1: should do everything we can to pass on their legacy

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Speaker 1: to the next generation as well as to ensure that

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Speaker 1: their memory lives on forever. And my next guest is

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Speaker 1: someone who understands this very very well, because this legacy

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Speaker 1: is in her blood. Her grandfather was a pilot in

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Speaker 1: World War Two. Her father was in the eighty second

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Speaker 1: Airborne Infantry and as a pilot. Her mother is a pilot.

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Speaker 1: She's one of three sisters, all of whom served and

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Speaker 1: are pilots. Her name is Amber Smith. Amber is a

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Speaker 1: Kiowa Warrior helicopter pilot who served in Iraq and Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: at the height of the Wars, and is the best

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Speaker 1: selling author of the book Danger Close. More recently, she

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Speaker 1: served in the Pentagon as Under Secretary of Defense for

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Speaker 1: public Outreach. She is a warrior through and through in

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Speaker 1: one hell of an American. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy our conversation. Amber Smith. Welcome to Battleground. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's so great

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Speaker 2: to be on with you again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is crazy. We were just talking about prior

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Speaker 1: to going to recording about how we've known each other

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Speaker 1: for ten years. Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 2: It's crazy that has been that long. That's why I

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Speaker 2: was saying, like again, like I feel like we've spoke together,

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Speaker 2: we've done media together, We've done like all sorts of

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Speaker 2: different advocacy work together, and so so, yeah, be on

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Speaker 2: your podcast now, which I'm so excited that you have launched.

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Speaker 2: It's just awesome to be on with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is kind of crazy. We all have have

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Speaker 1: had sort of an insane journey over the last ten

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Speaker 1: years to get to this point. And I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about you and for this interview because I do know,

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Speaker 1: as we talked about, I have known you for ten years,

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Speaker 1: and you're a pretty incredible person. You know, you're competitive,

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Speaker 1: you're driven. You were a gymnast and then you were

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Speaker 1: a cheerleader, and then you made the transition to attack

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Speaker 1: helicopter pilot for the military and then a best selling author.

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Speaker 1: But you have this dog, this bulldog named Kaiowa, who

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Speaker 1: every picture that you take of this dog looks like

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Speaker 1: it can barely breathe on its own. So it sort

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Speaker 1: of turns the whole narrative of people buy dogs people

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Speaker 1: buy dogs like they are on their head.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's some truth to the She can

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Speaker 2: barely breathe parts of it and if you hear some snoring,

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Speaker 2: that's probably because she's laying down right next to me.

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Speaker 2: But she's awesome. She's a bulldog. She's the laziest breed

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Speaker 2: out there. So there's I want to say that there's

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Speaker 2: not much work for any bulldog owner. You will know that, like,

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Speaker 2: bulldogs are very high maintenance, especially for how lazy they are.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, she got the name Kaiowa obviously because I

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Speaker 2: used to fly Kaiwa's in the Army and I had

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Speaker 2: to keep the legacy going because I got her the

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Speaker 2: same year that the Army decommissioned the Kaiowa.

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Speaker 1: So so I want to talk about legacies here in

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Speaker 1: a second. But how do you, as a competitive driven person,

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Speaker 1: get a dog that's so lazy.

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Speaker 2: So I lived in Washington, d C. When I first

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Speaker 2: got the dog, and I was like, I need you know,

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Speaker 2: I was actually working at the Pentagon when I got her,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I need a dog that is

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Speaker 2: going to be okay with you know, because when you

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Speaker 2: work in the Pentagon, you work very long hours. And

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Speaker 2: I was like I need a dog that is going

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Speaker 2: to be okay with getting loss of sleep, and bulldog

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Speaker 2: fits exactly what I was looking for. Well, Kaiowa, it's

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Speaker 2: awesome though bulldogs are so much work, but they're such

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Speaker 2: like loyal, loving, stubborn dogs.

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Speaker 1: Well, you talked about legacy and what I found remarkable

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Speaker 1: because I read you've got this book out it's called

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Speaker 1: Danger Close, and I read that book a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that struck me very early

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Speaker 1: on in reading that book is that you come from

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Speaker 1: a family of pilots. I think it's remarkable, So correct

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. You had a grandfather that flew

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Speaker 1: in World War Two? Right, I do.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather he flew in the Army Air Corps in

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Speaker 2: World War Two. He flew the aerial routes between Northern

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Speaker 2: Africa and Europe, and he also flew some super early

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Speaker 2: on helicopter prototypes. After the war, he went on to

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Speaker 2: fly for the Airlines. But that's really where the aviation

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Speaker 2: bug began in my family. So yeah, he kind of

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Speaker 2: started it all.

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Speaker 1: So you had a grandfather who is a pilot. Your

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Speaker 1: mom is also a pilot, right, your dad my dad

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Speaker 1: was a pilot.

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Speaker 2: For a PanAm My mom she was a pilot. She

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Speaker 2: was a civilian pilot. Women were still very rare back

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Speaker 2: in the sixties when she was flying sixties and then

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Speaker 2: in the seventies, and she got all of her ratings

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Speaker 2: up to CF double I Certified Flight Instructor for Instruments,

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Speaker 2: and she loved it as well. It was like a

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Speaker 2: hobby of hers that she would do whenever she could

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Speaker 2: save up the money to afford the flight hours, because

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Speaker 2: aviation is a very expensive hobby. And then, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it kind of comes with no surprise that they raised

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Speaker 2: three daughters who wanted to become pilots ourselves. We grew

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Speaker 2: up around it. We always talked about aviation growing up.

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Speaker 2: It was like just natural conversation. My dad would talk

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Speaker 2: to us about how important air speed is. He would

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Speaker 2: talk to us about learning how to read a sectional,

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Speaker 2: and we're talking at like a young age, and we

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Speaker 2: as kids like like some people go camping with their parents.

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Speaker 2: Like we learned about every aspect of aviation from like,

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Speaker 2: you know, from when we could talk up until we

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Speaker 2: were getting our aviation licenses. So I think that had

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Speaker 2: the biggest impact on us in terms of moving forward

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Speaker 2: and pursuing aviation.

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Speaker 1: So clearly, so clearly there was a legacy of aviators

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Speaker 1: of pilots in your family. Were you thinking about that

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Speaker 1: legacy when you joined the military in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think I thought of it as

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Speaker 2: a legacy. I thought how amazing it was that I

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Speaker 2: got to experience something that people had previous, like through

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Speaker 2: generations of my family had got to experience I know,

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Speaker 2: I got to experience it completely different. My dad was

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Speaker 2: in the airborne infantry in the eighty second, so like

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Speaker 2: my experience in aviation was much different than his infantry

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Speaker 2: experience in the sixties. So, but also my mom, I know,

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Speaker 2: my mom, like I told you, she was very interested

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Speaker 2: in aviation. And she told me when I started to

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Speaker 2: go down the path of after nine to eleven and

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Speaker 2: being like, I think, I know now how I can

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Speaker 2: apply my patriotism, my love of country, and love of

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Speaker 2: aviation and put it all together and become a helicopter pilot.

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Speaker 2: And so when I started pursuing that, my mom I

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Speaker 2: remember her saying just how amazing she thought it was

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Speaker 2: that her three daughters had the opportunity to pursue this,

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Speaker 2: because she didn't have that opportunity when she was interested

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Speaker 2: in aviation, and she just thought it was remarkable and

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Speaker 2: very cool that we were getting to do this. And

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Speaker 2: so I remember that and I sort of never took

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Speaker 2: that opportunity for granted, and I appreciated that I was

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Speaker 2: where I was in life where I was able to

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Speaker 2: become a helicopter pilot because it was still fairly new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So was it nine to eleven that was the

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Speaker 1: catalyst for you to join?

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Speaker 2: It was I had loved the military because growing up,

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Speaker 2: like I said, with my dad's stories of serving in

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Speaker 2: the army and then aviation, I never knew for the

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Speaker 2: military was something that sounded cool and would be amazing

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Speaker 2: if I ever pulled the trigger and decided to go

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Speaker 2: for But it was nine to eleven that was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, I want to serve my country. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to wait. You know. Three I was in the

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Speaker 2: I was in college when it happened, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to wait any longer. I feel like

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Speaker 2: it's crystal clear for me now. I want to serve

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Speaker 2: my country, and I feel like the best way that

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Speaker 2: I can do that is through my love of aviation

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Speaker 2: and my experience with aviation, and that's the proper path

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 1: But you had to know. You had to know Amber

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Speaker 1: that well, first of all, talk about nine. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about nine to eleven for a second. If you lived

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Speaker 1: through that, I feel like it affected you to the

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Speaker 1: very core of who you are as a person. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I can even to this day. I mean,

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Speaker 1: oh gosh, like over twenty years ago, I could tell

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Speaker 1: you exactly where I was, what I was doing, what

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Speaker 1: I had for dinner the night before and breakfast that morning,

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Speaker 1: what all my roommates in college were doing. And I

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Speaker 1: remember everything every second of that day. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's because nine to eleven sort of engages engaged you

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Speaker 1: all of your senses, but also on a very deep

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Speaker 1: seated emotional level. And Amber, you had to know that

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Speaker 1: when you when you volunteer to serve this country after

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven and you were going into you wanted

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Speaker 1: to be an aviator, So you wanted to I guess

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Speaker 1: you wanted to join the army, and that meant that

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Speaker 1: you were probably going to fly rotary wing helicopters. You

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Speaker 1: had to know that you were going to be going

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Speaker 1: to combat in some way, shape or form, right, I did.

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Speaker 2: And I think it was from nine to eleven for

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Speaker 2: me was the first time that I realized that the

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Speaker 2: freedoms that we love and enjoy every single day are

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Speaker 2: trying to be taken from us. You know, those freedoms

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Speaker 2: are a threat to a lot of groups and adversaries

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Speaker 2: around the world. And so in my very early adult age,

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Speaker 2: it was the first time that I had that aha

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Speaker 2: moment of like, this can be taken away. This isn't

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Speaker 2: something we should be taken for granted, as we saw

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Speaker 2: with what happened for nine to eleven, and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to give back to the country that had given me

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Speaker 2: all of that. And I knew that becoming a helicopter

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Speaker 2: pilot in the Army, I would likely, you know, head

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Speaker 2: to war sooner or later, and I did. I went

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Speaker 2: to I ended up actually going to boot camp two

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Speaker 2: thousand and three and then straight from there into flight

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Speaker 2: school at Fort Rocker, Alabama, and then I got Fort Campbell, Kentucky,

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Speaker 2: the Hunter and First Airborne Division for my first duty station,

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Speaker 2: and I was deploying within the year of me being

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Speaker 2: there to Iraq.

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Speaker 1: What's remarkable about that is that if you think back

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Speaker 1: at that time, so you and I are essentially the

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Speaker 1: same age, had such a similar experience and reason for

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Speaker 1: why we joined the military back then. Did you have

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Speaker 1: any conversation with your parents after nine to eleven when

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Speaker 1: you made that decision.

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Speaker 2: So I think I have an extremely rare sort of

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Speaker 2: experience with my parents with joining the military, because I

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Speaker 2: know so many people that I've talked to had the

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Speaker 2: exact opposite of what I did. My parents were so

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Speaker 2: unbelievably supportive. My dad, from serving himself, understood and knew

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Speaker 2: exactly what the military did for an individual and how

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Speaker 2: much it helped you grow and grow up and become

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Speaker 2: an adult, and sort of the lessons that you learn

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Speaker 2: while you're in the military and about other people in

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Speaker 2: the camaraderie and what it actually means to serve, to

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Speaker 2: serve something greater than yourself and be a part of

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Speaker 2: that brotherhood, in that sisterhood. So they knew. My parents knew,

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Speaker 2: and they were very supportive. I think the whole war

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Speaker 2: aspect of it was nerve racking to them because that

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Speaker 2: was new and obviously a child like I now that

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Speaker 2: I'm a parent myself, like I can't even imagine what

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Speaker 2: that is like. But in terms of military service and

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Speaker 2: wanting to go fly in the military and serve my country.

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Speaker 2: I could not have had a better support structure for

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Speaker 2: them being proud and happy that I was choosing that path.

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Speaker 1: They had to be superheroes because you know, you said,

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Speaker 1: you're you're a mother now and I'm a father, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine having those conversations with my children knowing

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Speaker 1: that they're going to be going into the fight, you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting to volunteer for the military in a time of war.

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Speaker 1: But what's kind of unbelievable about your circumstance and unique

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Speaker 1: to you is that you weren't the only one. You

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Speaker 1: had two sisters that also joined the military and found

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Speaker 1: themselves serving in a time of war. Am I right

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Speaker 1: about this as well?

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Speaker 2: You're right. My older sister, Kelly, she was a Sea

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Speaker 2: one thirty pilot for the California Air National Guarden multiple deployments.

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Speaker 2: I actually got to spend some time with her in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: That's great, that's crazy, that's crazy. It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for your parents to have to bear that

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Speaker 1: burden of three first of all women in the military

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Speaker 1: in a post nine to eleven world in Iraq and

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Speaker 1: I get two wars rage, two wars raging at the

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Speaker 1: same time, do you ever ask.

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Speaker 2: So in two thousand and eight they had twice two

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Speaker 2: daughters in the same combat zone. So I got to

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Speaker 2: see Kelly. In two thousand and eight, I was in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 2: I was in RC East in Jalalabad, and then and

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Speaker 2: she was based out of Bagram and she got to

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Speaker 2: fly into uh Jalalabad and we got to see each

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Speaker 2: other there. And then I got to see her up

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Speaker 2: in Bagram a couple of times. And then at the

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Speaker 2: end of my deployment the end of two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 2: my sister Lacey, we did the Riptoah with her unit,

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Speaker 2: and so she, you know, her unit was replacing ours,

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Speaker 2: and so we had about like a ten day overlap,

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Speaker 2: I want to say, and it was crazy, Like I

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Speaker 2: remember that that was really hard for me because when

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Speaker 2: Kelly left, she said goodbye to me so to speak,

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Speaker 2: like I was still in country and she was leaving.

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Speaker 2: And when Lacey was there, she was a helicopter she

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Speaker 2: was a black Hawk helicopter pilot in the Hunter first

300
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Speaker 2: as well, and obviously I could relate more to her

301
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Speaker 2: mission because I was a helicopter pilot as well, and

302
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Speaker 2: I sort of knew what the year had been like

303
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Speaker 2: for me and some of the danger that exists as

304
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Speaker 2: a helicopter pilot in Afghanistan, and so I was like,

305
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Speaker 2: it was very hard for me to say goodbye to her,

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Speaker 2: knowing that I was leaving her there for an entire

307
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Speaker 2: year and what she could potentially face. So it was

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Speaker 2: amazing to see both of them in country, but it

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Speaker 2: was also like, it was crazy to leave my sister there.

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Speaker 1: How did you do it?

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Speaker 2: When I came home?

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Speaker 1: How did you say goodbye to her?

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Speaker 2: It was really rough. She came, she she came to

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Speaker 2: like the holding area for us to get onto the plane,

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Speaker 2: like our final departure before they lock you down. She

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Speaker 2: like came to me there, and it was you know,

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Speaker 2: I tried to give her the big sister pep talk

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Speaker 2: about like you get in this situation, like do this,

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Speaker 2: do this, do this, and yeah, it was just like

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Speaker 2: how do you put it into words to like leave

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Speaker 2: a family member behind in a combat zone. That is

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Speaker 2: like for me, Afghanistan was a much harder deployment than

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Speaker 2: Iraq was. And I knew that she was going into

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Speaker 2: that and she was an RC East as well. So

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Speaker 2: it was tough. It was tough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was as I know what it's like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well listen, I know what it's like. And yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: leaving a family member there. You know how dangerous it is.

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Speaker 1: And it sounded like you said she made it back.

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Speaker 2: She did. I was grateful, But I know it was

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Speaker 2: a rough deployment, as it was for most people during

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Speaker 2: that time frame. You know, it's combat. It sucks, you

333
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Speaker 2: see some things that it's war, wars, war as hell,

334
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Speaker 2: and so yeah, it was a rough deployment for everybody.

335
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Speaker 2: And but like I said, like so grateful, she came

336
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Speaker 2: back safe and sound, and I'm really proud of her.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever talk about your experiences in Afghanistan or

338
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Speaker 1: in combat together?

339
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Speaker 2: So when she came home from Afghanistan, Uh, we kind

340
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Speaker 2: of definitely had that connection. And I know there was

341
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Speaker 2: some very she did. Some of her mission was like

342
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Speaker 2: a METAVAC pilot as well. Uh, and so it's it's

343
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Speaker 2: different than what we did as Kaiowa pilots. So we

344
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Speaker 2: got to talk through all of that, and I do

345
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Speaker 2: think it was helpful to have sort of relatable experiences.

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Speaker 2: Were usually the people that you talk about are people

347
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Speaker 2: who have you know in your unit who have been there,

348
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Speaker 2: done that, shared experiences, and you guys are able to

349
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Speaker 2: sort of like laugh, cry, like talk about all the

350
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Speaker 2: bs and tell the war stories together. But it was

351
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Speaker 2: it was nice to be able to be able to

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Speaker 2: do that with my sister, and I think it was

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Speaker 2: helpful for both of us.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the war? Oh, well, I know the

355
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Speaker 1: answer to this question already, because it's inevitable. If you

356
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Speaker 1: experienced war, doesn't matter if you're flying a hundred de

357
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Speaker 1: feet above it or your boots on the ground. It

358
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Speaker 1: does change you in some deeper and profound ways. Have

359
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Speaker 1: you and your sister recognized any of those changes in yourselves?

360
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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure about my sister. For me, you know,

361
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Speaker 2: when I first came back, I was like, oh fine, whatever,

362
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Speaker 2: like didn't give much thought to it. It wasn't until

363
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: I transferred out of the military or I was like.

364
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Speaker 2: You operate at such a high stress level as a

365
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Speaker 2: Kiowa pilot when you and this is just like take

366
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Speaker 2: away combat. Take away combat. You're flying a small squarely

367
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Speaker 2: aircraft with a fifty cal machine gun, a rocket pod,

368
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Speaker 2: seven high explosive rockets. You can carry hellfire missiles. You've

369
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Speaker 2: got a thermal imaging site system, and you have five

370
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: radios to talk on, listen to all at the same

371
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Speaker 2: with all different information, everybody talking into your ear. You've

372
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Speaker 2: got your weapon systems, You've got your nav system. You

373
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: have to fly a helicopter, make sure that you and

374
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Speaker 2: your co pilot are on top of that. And then

375
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Speaker 2: you have the mission. You have the ground force, the

376
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Speaker 2: friendly situation, and this is going back to combat. Now

377
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Speaker 2: you have the enemy situation. Sometimes people are shooting at you.

378
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Speaker 2: You're getting target grids, target coordinates to take out a

379
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Speaker 2: enemy target. Bringing everything up, you have all sorts of

380
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Speaker 2: aerial hazards like mountains, birds, cell phone towers, wires, very

381
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: steep valleys, and power limitations within the aircraft and how

382
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 2: much power you have when you're doing these like deep

383
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Speaker 2: dive attacks with a fifty cal or rockets, and so

384
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: it's a lot at one time. Like you're if you're

385
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: a Kiwa pilot, you are likely an adrenaline junkie because

386
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: that's what's going on the entire time you're in the air,

387
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: and you get these troops in contact calls and then

388
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Speaker 2: it's like it's like a light switch like it's on.

389
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Speaker 2: It's like go time, let's go. Like you could be

390
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: like sitting there, fat, dumb and happy, flying along looking

391
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Speaker 2: for the bad guy and like the mountains of Afghanistan,

392
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Speaker 2: and then you get that call that there's friendly forces

393
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Speaker 2: on the ground that are overrun, getting attacked by the enemy,

394
00:23:54,560 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 2: got hit by an ID whatever, and it's like as

395
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: Kaya pilots, we prided ourselves in being able to have

396
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: a call side, a grid and a frequency and that's

397
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 2: all we needed to go destroy the enemy and to

398
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: protect those guys on the ground that were in the

399
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: thick of the fight. That was our purpose, that was

400
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: our mission, was to protect those guys, make sure they

401
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: came home to their families and tried to make their

402
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: day a little bit easier because they didn't get to

403
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: go back to the fob that I lived on. They

404
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: lived out in the cops, they lived out in the

405
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: outposts with horrible food, you know, not sleeping conditions. The

406
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: enemy was always on them, and so we prided ourselves

407
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: in being able to respond with as little information as possible.

408
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: And yes we didn't fly as fast as an Apache,

409
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: but we dropped everything to get there and help them

410
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: out in any way that we could, and that's what

411
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: we lived for, and that's what we prided ourselves on

412
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: in combat, was being there for them when it mattered

413
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: the most. And so the adrenaline was always there. And

414
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: when you're deployed in combat, you lived that for a

415
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 2: year at a time. And I remember speaking to a

416
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: senior officer when I got back from Iraq and he

417
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 2: said through some research, he was a one sixtieth guy.

418
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: He said that through their research they had realized for

419
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: every year you do at combat, it takes twice that

420
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: to sort of come down from that. And then you

421
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: compound it because you know, we're doing these back to

422
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: back to back deployments for years at a time. My

423
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 2: deployments were both one year. The Army had shifted to

424
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: fifteen months after I was done deploying, But so it

425
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: was a lot and I by the time I got out,

426
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: I had been living this like adrenaline stress filled lifestyle

427
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: as most people experience in combat, and had lost friends

428
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: and it takes a while to come down from that.

429
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: I would say, like, it takes years to come down

430
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: from that. It's not something that you go talk to

431
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: somebody about. You know, for six weeks and then you

432
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: feel better. It's like it takes time to sort of

433
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: reset your lifestyle. At least that's the way it is

434
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: for me. And when I say lifestyle, I mean sort

435
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: of like your mindset and how you operate without being

436
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: three hundred miles an hour every day. So that was

437
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: a super long answer, but I'm glad.

438
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have heard it because I was one

439
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: of those guys on the ground in the infantry and

440
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: Afghanistan getting shot up every single day saved. I can't

441
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: even tell you how many times by helicopter pilots just

442
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: like you. And Okay, so you want to do something,

443
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: do an exercise with me real quick, to go with

444
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: the flow on this amber. I want people to see.

445
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: I want to set a scenario and I want people

446
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: I want you to put people in your headspace. So

447
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: like say you're in Regional Command East RC East and

448
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: Afghanistan my platoon or there's a platoon out on the

449
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: border that's in contact, that's pinned down, and you get

450
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: that troops in contact report and you're in your Tactical

451
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 1: Operation center or in your bed, your birds are on QRF.

452
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: Take us through from the moment that you get that

453
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: call because you said it's like a light switch. Take

454
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: us through that moment when you get that call, to

455
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: every step of the way to your bird. And I

456
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: want people to see the level of proficiency, and you

457
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit already, but the level

458
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: of proficiency and how you have it down to a

459
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: battle drill when you handle those types of situations.

460
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: So immediately you get the call. Usually for us, we

461
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: were always in the air because you always like we

462
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: did twenty four hours or coverage, so there was always

463
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: a team in the air and that's the team they

464
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: called first, unless they were just way far away. So

465
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: say we were the team that was in there, the

466
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 2: pilot immediately pushes forward on the cyclic and pulls up

467
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: on the collective which means max power, max airspeed, and

468
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: you just head in the direction. All you know is

469
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: they may say, hey, Corngall River Valley, there's a troops

470
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: in contact. You know, two Kia six wounded Metavax called

471
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: still active tick Grid coming. So we know just from

472
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: being in the being in that AO where that vicinity is.

473
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: So we just immediately start flying as fast as we

474
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: possibly can to that area and we get.

475
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: You all and by the way, you don't know, you

476
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: have no idea what you're flying into. You just get

477
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: a baseline report, who, where, when.

478
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: And why go yep yep. If that sometimes we don't

479
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: even have that, We get that when we're like super close.

480
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes you get there and you don't have much information,

481
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: which makes it very difficult. Or you have you know,

482
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: guys on the ground who they're people laying next to

483
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: them are shot and they're trying to keep people alive.

484
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: They're trying to talk to Ariel, they're trying to talk

485
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 2: to the weapons the scout Weapons team, which is us,

486
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: and get them the proper grid so we can then

487
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: if it's at night, like lays the target blow them up.

488
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: And then sometimes we have to observe for artillery. If

489
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: they call it an artillery mission, we'll stand to the side.

490
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: So you have artillery flying through the air and we're

491
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: flying there as well. You have the METAVAC coming in

492
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: and it is like a non stop activity and you

493
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 2: just do the best you can with the information that

494
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: you have, and then once you start putting like rounds

495
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: down on targets, sometimes things calm down. Sometimes they don't,

496
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: and so it just kind of hens what the enemy

497
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan was very willing to fight, even sometimes when

498
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: helicopters were on station, and so it was like that's

499
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: I say, like in Iraq it was my experiences were

500
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: more like okay, once you laid down fire, it was like, okay,

501
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: it might get kind of quiet. But in Afghanistan something

502
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: like they were ready to fight and keep going, and

503
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: it was it was much harder terrain In Afghanistan. They

504
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: hid in the mountains. There was like boulder sized rocks

505
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: that were the side of cars, and they learned, they

506
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: started to learn our TTPs, our tactics, techniques and procedures

507
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: for US as aerial platforms, and they knew that they could,

508
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, come out when we were on our outbound

509
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: racetrack pattern after shooting and then jump back behind the

510
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: rocks again, which were which were great, you know, like

511
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: protectors for them. And so it was we did what

512
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: we could with the information and terrain availability that we had.

513
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: I remember I used to come back from moments like that,

514
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, haven't been been bailed out by you know,

515
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: helicopter air assets, come back from a troops in contact,

516
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: and like you know, your adrenaline flows. It's it's crazy

517
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: how your adrenaline flows in moments like that, and I'm

518
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: sure it was like that for you and the birds

519
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: racing to troops in contact, trying to save the day.

520
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: You get back from those missions, how did you mentally reset?

521
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: Because I feel like there were times I'd come back

522
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: from missions and I'd you know, you go through your

523
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: priorities of work and make sure your trucks are refilled

524
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: with fuel and ammunition, and your weapons are cleaned, and

525
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: then you know, your men eat. What was that like

526
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: for you? How did you mentally reset? Because you go

527
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: you're flying, I mean, what's the air speed of a

528
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Kio Warrior helicopter pilot and you're talking about the chaos

529
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: over top of troops in contact. You don't want to

530
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: shoot friendly troops. You've got artillery sometimes coming in, You've

531
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: got mortars coming in. You don't want to get hit

532
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: with a mortar. You don't want to get hit with artillery.

533
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: And then sometimes you have close air support, which are

534
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: a tens and in some of the worst cases like

535
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: a strategic answer, and you don't want to be caught

536
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: in the middle of any of that. So God forbiding,

537
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: So somehow, you, by the grace of God, you survive

538
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: all that, you find yourself back on the base, how

539
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: do you mentally decompress from that?

540
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: So for me, I really didn't decompress during that year

541
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: that I was there. I felt like I almost couldn't

542
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: because you go out the next day and you do

543
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: the exact same thing, and so you kind of have

544
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: to keep your head in the game. And I think

545
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: that's why it's so taxing and so stressful, like compounded

546
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: stress is because you don't ever get that let down

547
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: while you're in it, because you need to keep that

548
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: stress level so high in order for you to keep

549
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: your head in the game to be able to be

550
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: completely efficient and effective at your mission and flying the helicopter,

551
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: and you can't let emotions and what if scenarios like

552
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: enter your mind. Those definitely came after when you come

553
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: home from deployments like back to America. Yeah, then it's

554
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: like flooded with like how the hell did I survive

555
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: that specific situation? Like I should not I should not

556
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: have survived it, Like, by the grace of God, I

557
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: am here today. But there are there are instances, like

558
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: too many to count where I'm like, how did I

559
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: survive that? And so, But you can't think of that

560
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: either in the moment when you come back from the mission.

561
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: It's just at least that's how I handled it. I

562
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: didn't let my mind go to that place until I

563
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: came back from the deployment, like in the moment in

564
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 2: Afghanistan or in Iraq. It was a fate I had

565
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 2: accepted for anything that was going to happen in country.

566
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 2: It was a fate that I accepted for being there

567
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: as part of my job and part of my mission.

568
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: And I just didn't let myself think about it or

569
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 2: dwell on it. And it was like, Yep, gonna wake

570
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 2: up tomorrow and do the exact same thing.

571
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: To talk about fate.

572
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: Help out guys just like you did.

573
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: Do you talk about a fate you accepted? Did you

574
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: accept at a certain level that that you that you

575
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: could very well die and you just let go You

576
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: don't care, and obviously you want to make it home alive.

577
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that you know that because I had

578
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: so many I had. I had so many people in

579
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: my troop, like small troop that I know throughout my years,

580
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: had gotten killed in helicopter crashes, in combat, Like it

581
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: was like a fact of life, and it was like,

582
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: I remember when my friend Mike Slabonik, who's the CEW

583
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: before he was killed in Afghanistan. He was shot in

584
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: his thigh and bled out and was killed on actually

585
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 2: nine to eleventh, two thousand and eight. And I remember

586
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: I was he was in my troop. He was my

587
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: instructor pilot from the very first. I deployed with him

588
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: twice flone with him. Taught me so much about flying.

589
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: And I remember because it had happened so many times.

590
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: You know the look on a person's face when they

591
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 2: walk into a room to tell you. And I remember

592
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: when my friend and colleague and pilot came to tell me.

593
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: I looked on her face and I said, who is it?

594
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: She didn't say anything. I just knew that someone had died.

595
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: I didn't know who, and uh, I was just like,

596
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: who is it? And then I found out it was Mike.

597
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: But how did you handle that?

598
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: That was rough for me, that it so so we

599
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 2: just talked about We just talked about how you handle

600
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: knowing you could die in combat. And I think that

601
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: was kind of the exception when I said, I didn't

602
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: think about it in theater, but when Mike got killed,

603
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: it brought me back to reality and brought me back

604
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: how like every day you make it home from a

605
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 2: mission is a gift, and like how fragile life is,

606
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: and just how unfair it was that he didn't make

607
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: it home. You know, wife, kids, great American, loved this country,

608
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: loved serving and flying, and so it was. It was

609
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: hard even after like all the people who I also

610
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 2: knew had been killed. It was, it was. It never

611
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: gets any easier. I would say, how has how.

612
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: Have these experiences amber shaped your perspective on how you

613
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: live your life today?

614
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 2: Everything, all of those experiences have formed who I have,

615
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: who I am today, and it's completely changed my perspective

616
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: of war, of national security, of foreign policy, of at

617
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: a at a more national political level, has completely And

618
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: also I think from my time serving in the Pentagon

619
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: and seeing it more from an executive Pentagon level and

620
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: then contrast to me as more of an operations tactical

621
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: level as my time as a Kiowa pilot. Uh. And

622
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: so that's completely changed my perspective on life and how

623
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 2: I live my life, my priorities of what I think

624
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: is important. And I'm so incredibly grateful for my service.

625
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: I it gave me so much it was. It was hard.

626
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: I almost did it for you know, over seven and a

627
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: half years of my life, but it gave me so

628
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: much in terms of life lessons and learning who I

629
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 2: was and what I was capable of and how I

630
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 2: would handle situations and so everything who I am today

631
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: is because of my experiences in the military.

632
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: Do you think when you talk talk about how your

633
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: service has shaped your perspective on geopolitics in war, you've

634
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 1: always been someone. You fought for this country in Afghanistan,

635
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: Iraq on multiple battlefield as you said you did seven

636
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: plus years. It's so important amber for people like you

637
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: to come back and stay involved in the dialogue in

638
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: direction of this country, the role of you know, the

639
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: elder warrior in society's past, and that yes, we send

640
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: our men and women to fight for our country. They

641
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: experience haring and sometimes horrifying things in service to the country,

642
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: and instead of coming home and detaching, we need those

643
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: people to come back and stay involved to help educate

644
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: our policymakers on what war is like. And you've done that.

645
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: Where of all the horrible things that you've experienced, I'm

646
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: sure your service is braided with terrible experiences and the

647
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: best experiences in life. But where has that motivation come

648
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: from inside of you to stay in the fight for

649
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: this country.

650
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 2: I will tell you that I think top level leadership

651
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: are in the military are a big part of today's

652
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: problem with the military, and unfortunately, their voice in society

653
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 2: is what matters. So the reason I choose to stay

654
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 2: involved and be very vocal on some very unpopular issues

655
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: that a lot of people don't agree with me on

656
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: is because I think that it's important to have voices

657
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: out there that don't have stars on their shoulders, people

658
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: who have fought in these wars, that some of their

659
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: decisions place people in these positions. Those people who have

660
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: been there at that lower operational level, tactical level, and

661
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: have those experiences and understand that what briefs well on

662
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: a fancy little PowerPoint presentation in a skiff in the

663
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: Pentagon or at the White House doesn't always equate to

664
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: what's needed on the battlefield to achieve mission success. And

665
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: so I don't feel that the tactical level soldier is

666
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: always best represented because in today's military, once you get

667
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 2: that star on your shoulder, a lot of people aren't

668
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: gonna like that. I have to say this but they

669
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 2: are politicians. You are then a politician that is serving

670
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: a higher political being. It's no longer about the guys

671
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: on the ground, and I take issue with that. It's

672
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: not okay. It's destroying our military and we see it

673
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: in the recruitment numbers that are coming out. It's only

674
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 2: gonna get worse. And so I want to make sure

675
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: that people know the truth and that military leadership is

676
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: a significant like also, you know, executive and congressional legislative

677
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: leadership is as well. They hold some of the blame

678
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: with the budget and all of that, but it's they

679
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: are a big part of the problem. And I think

680
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 2: for so long in our country, no one felt like

681
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: they could speak out about generals. It was like, oh,

682
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 2: you're a general, You're untouchable, and that should be the

683
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: exact opposite. You want the responsibilities that come with being

684
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: a general, then guess what you deserve to be critiqued

685
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: for the decisions that you make. But sadly, there is

686
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: no accountability for about above the lieutenant colonel rank. It's

687
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: like once you make it past lieutenant colonel, except very

688
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: few instances in the Navy. For some reason, in the Navy,

689
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: they still choose to hold some of their vessel commanders

690
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: responsible for things that happened with them. But across the military,

691
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 2: as a generalization, senior military leaders are no longer held

692
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: accountable and that is a significant, significant problem for the

693
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: future of our nation and our national security and then

694
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: an effective military.

695
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 1: Amber I totally agree. Can I give you my perspective

696
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: on this?

697
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

698
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: People like you know so, I've served just over six years,

699
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: almost seven years in the military. I went into the

700
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: military after nine to eleven, just like you saying, I

701
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: wanted to make it a career. And then I went

702
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: to airborne school, went to ranger school, went to every cool,

703
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: sexy school that the military had to offer, and I

704
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: found myself boots on the ground in eastern Afghanistan in

705
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: direct combat with an enemy for sixteen straight months. And

706
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: first firefight I came back. It was exhilarating. And then

707
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 1: the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth I was like, Okay,

708
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: this sucks. I can't do this. I can't do this

709
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 1: for a career. And I came home. I came home.

710
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: I became you know. I I remember like my U

711
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: came home in my unit like nine months later, was

712
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: supposed to go back to Afghanistan, and I went into

713
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: my commander's office and I said, you know, Sir, I

714
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: can't do this. I can't I can't lead troops effectively

715
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 1: anymore because I'm home now. I'm emotionally compromised. You talked

716
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: about that emotional state that you have to get in

717
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: and combat to be able to survive and thrive and lead.

718
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: I was out of it. Amber. I was out of it,

719
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: and I told I I rather than put my soldiers

720
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: at risk and say like and pretend like there wasn't

721
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: an issue, I went and told my commander I can't

722
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: do it anymore. And that was in the process of

723
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: being medically retired, having been wounded in combat and all that.

724
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: But during that time of my medical retirement, I did

725
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: a lot of watching other leaders officers in the military,

726
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: and what I saw is that there are officers that

727
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: play the game and officers who don't. And it's typically

728
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: the officers who don't see heavy combat that end up

729
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: staying in because they don't have the same sort of

730
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: experiences that I had on the battlefield and they think, oh,

731
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: this isn't that bad, Well, maybe stay on to be

732
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: a captain, a major, lieutenant, colonel, and what you end

733
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: up have happening is is you have in units all

734
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: across the military, people who didn't see the heaviest combat,

735
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: or didn't didn't play at the highest operational tempo, end

736
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: up climbing the ladder. And what I saw among that

737
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,479
Speaker 1: demographic where men and women who are willing to play

738
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: the game, leaders who are only concerned with their bow

739
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: and rarely their wake. And most of those people never

740
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: saw sustained heavy combat or high operational tempo like you.

741
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: And what you end up have happening is you have

742
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: a bunch of people with stars on their shoulders who

743
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: have never really seen the horrors of war up close

744
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: and personal for a sustained amount of time. And I

745
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: liken it to almost being you calling yourself an artist,

746
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: but having never painted the painting in your life. Yet

747
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 1: these are the people that are making life and death

748
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: decisions at this strategic level for our country and our

749
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: men and women in uniform. And we're talking when you

750
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: talk about making strategic decisions, we're talking about decisions that

751
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: send our people to war, which I believe America's sons

752
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: and daughters are the most precious natural resource. It's a

753
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: leader's job and I think think that you'll probably agree

754
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: with me. It's we need to do everything that we

755
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: can to protect America's sons and daughters and shield them

756
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: from sending them into frivolous wars. And I think that's

757
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: sort of why we're in, why the military is today

758
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: where it is.

759
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: That's such a fantastic point. Like with your experiences transitioning

760
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: out of the military and what you saw, I do

761
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: think that when you said that our men and women

762
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: who are serving, you know, our nation's most viable assets.

763
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: They one hundred percent are. And there is nothing that

764
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: makes me more furious than an American saying when you

765
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: point out the flaws of the Pentagon, and you point

766
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 2: out the flaws of the military and toxic leadership that exists,

767
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 2: and you know, the almost cultural stance at the top,

768
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: which is to appeace politicians in Washington instead of setting

769
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 2: up the military to be the best. Down at the

770
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: tactical level is when people say, oh, well you well,

771
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 2: you signed up to serve the military. People volunte all

772
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: volunteer force, so they just have to deal with it.

773
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: They they you know, they knew what they were signing

774
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: up for. And that is a bunch of crap. People

775
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: signed up to serve our country because they believe in

776
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: the freedoms and principles that our nation was founding on

777
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 2: founded on, and they believe that it is worth protecting.

778
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 2: They don't sign up to join the military to have

779
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: the poorest leaders that exist and are not putting their

780
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: well being in line the way that it should be.

781
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: You're not you should not be treated as can and

782
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: fodder because you signed up to serve our military. And

783
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: that has a lot to do with leadership and what

784
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: they think that they can get away with and they're

785
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: priorities and so yes, signing up for war, you know

786
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 2: that you could potentially have to go to war give

787
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: your life, and that's what people know going into it.

788
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that they should be put in

789
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: positions that they had that are wrong for the nation,

790
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: that are not smart foreign policy or national security decisions.

791
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: And sadly that's what we see today. That's exactly what

792
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: we saw with Afghanistan, where there was not a single

793
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: general from about summer of twenty eleven after osamavan Laden

794
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: was killed up until the withdrawal that could not articulate

795
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: a mission or an in state for Afghanistan. So they knew,

796
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: they knew, and they continued to send people into harm's

797
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 2: way for a fight that they couldn't articulate.

798
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: And totally listen, I totally agree that. And I was

799
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: going to ask you about the fall of Afghanistan and

800
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: how that affected you, you know, emotionally, mentally, physically. I

801
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 1: remember when I saw those images of what it looked

802
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: like Saigon two point zero and the chinel helicopters on

803
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: top of the embassies in Afghanistan, and just the sheer

804
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: just how fast Afghanistan collapsed in on itself like a

805
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: dying star. And our politicians who sent us into that

806
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: war for twenty plus years, like as you mentioned, no mission,

807
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: no end state, and you had these generals who every

808
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: year the issue they report on Afghanistan in January, and

809
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: every year they say the mission is on track, the

810
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: Afghan National Army is on track, the Afghan National Police

811
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: are on track, the Afghan Border Police are good to go.

812
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: But you and I, having been in that country, we

813
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: knew that wasn't true. Yet they issued those reports anyway,

814
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: And in the lead up to the fall of Afghanistan,

815
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: you could see the writing on the wall. You could

816
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: see that our political leaders, our military lead. They hadn't

817
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: given one thought to what a drawdown in peaceful end

818
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: state or peaceful withdrawal from Afghanistan looked like, and it

819
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: ended up squandering what I believe. I mean obviously like

820
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: having been there, I would go back and serve there again.

821
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: We did lots of great things there. We built wells

822
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: in villages and did lots of humanitarian assistants and taught

823
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: kids to read and you know, enabled young little girls

824
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 1: to go get an education. I'm proud of my service

825
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. I'm sure that you are too, But it

826
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I'm not pissed off that they squandered

827
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: every bit of that. Because you're seeing Afghanistan, it's like

828
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: the funniest thing in the world. Amber where you had

829
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: the Biden administration in Jensaki, who is then the White

830
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: House Press Secretary, saying that the Taliban we're going to

831
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: now now embrace women's rights and allow them to go

832
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: to school, Like, was there any part of you that

833
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: believed that at all? And give me a sense, give

834
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: us a sense of how you process the fall of

835
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and what it was like for you.

836
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: All politics is today is PR campaign after PR campaign

837
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: after PR campaign, and Afghanistan was no different. Like you said,

838
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 2: they were trying to sell to the public that the

839
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 2: Taliban was going to be great for Afghanistan and they

840
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 2: were going to be okay with women's rights and girls

841
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 2: going to school, and anyone with half of a brain

842
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: saw right through that, especially veterans who had served there.

843
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 2: And that's why I think it was so difficult. The

844
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 2: withdrawal was so difficult, difficult for so many Afghanistan veterans.

845
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: For me, the writing was on the wall. I understood

846
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: from a political stance that the war in Afghanistan was

847
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 2: never going to change. It was going to be the

848
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: same bureaucracy, the same hearings at Congress, the same throw

849
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 2: the money at the problem, no results, no accountability, no

850
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 2: ability to track the money that we are sending, the

851
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 2: fifty billion dollars a year that we're sending over there,

852
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 2: and so year after year after year, it was very

853
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: clear to me that there was no coherent strategy, if

854
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: there was one at all towards any sort of a

855
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: in state that would be beneficial. So it was we

856
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: can continue to spend money, we can continue to see

857
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: our American soldiers die in Afghanistan or we can start

858
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 2: the process of ending this war. So I was for

859
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,919
Speaker 2: the end of the war. What I was not for

860
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 2: was the withdrawal. The way that it happened, it could

861
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 2: not have been more like the world side. It could

862
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: not have been more of a disaster, more chaotic, more unplanned,

863
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: and it really showed a lot of our vulnerabilities, I

864
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: think from a national security perspective, with how it unfolded,

865
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 2: both like in our intelligence and you know, the Taliban

866
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 2: has no capabilities to take Kabul, the Afghan Army is

867
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 2: able to hold Kaboul. You know, all of that information

868
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 2: that continued to come out from the IC and was

869
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: it wasn't just false, Like we didn't look back and

870
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: be like, oh yeah, they were a little off on

871
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: that one. It fell in the it fell in days,

872
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: and so it was just I think an example of

873
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 2: the IC doing their analysis, politicized analysis of like wanting

874
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 2: a specific outcome and then that's what gets briefed instead

875
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 2: of the reality on the ground. And so it was

876
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 2: very difficult for me to watch, actually a whole lot

877
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: more difficult than I thought it would be. It really

878
00:54:52,160 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: affected me seeing, you know, seeing the helicopters evacuate American

879
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 2: civilians off of the embassies, seeing what happened at the

880
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: airfield at Kia, seeing American veterans springing into actions, like

881
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: everybody on their phones twenty four to seven to try

882
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: to help the interpreters, interpreters and the other Afghans who

883
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: had helped Americans on the ground. And it was such

884
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: a helpless feeling because you're sitting over here in America.

885
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: You're like trying to, you know, communicate the best you can,

886
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 2: figure out a way, figure out which gates open right now,

887
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: versus you know, where the Taliban is like beating people

888
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 2: to death and all of that. So it was a

889
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 2: lot and it was really a surreal time. But what

890
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 2: was more surreal was how quick it was out of

891
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: the news cycle once it was over.

892
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: My gosh, Amber, you're so right, Oh my god, so

893
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: much there. I remember experiencing that I felt at a

894
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: very similar experience, uh And I remember thinking, my god,

895
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: I want to go back, get me over there. And

896
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: at the time I was, I was running for Senate,

897
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: at the height of my Senate campaign, and I was

898
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: this close to suspending my campaign and hopping on like

899
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: some civilian wowe back then, and I did you feel

900
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:21,959
Speaker 1: the same way. I know that you did.

901
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 2: I did, I absolutely did, and I did the best

902
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: I can. I was working with some special operations veterans

903
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: that were doing some sort of fantastic work behind the

904
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 2: scenes in terms of getting things done, and I'm grateful

905
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: for the work that I was able to do with them.

906
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,479
Speaker 2: Of course, you always wish that you could do more,

907
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 2: which sort of leads to that like helpless feeling. But

908
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: it was like time was so short, and then the

909
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 2: State Department, you know, shut everybody down, like shut it.

910
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: At one point it was like nope, shut down and

911
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 2: there was no way in or out. And then it

912
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 2: was like, all right, let's move to grant transportation, and

913
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 2: and that became its own issues for the obvious reasons,

914
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 2: with the Taliban and checkpoints, and it was just it

915
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:13,720
Speaker 2: was unreal that the US government essentially did that to itself.

916
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: And where's the accountability, sean none, are we going to

917
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: have that conversation, Like I know, Congress just launched their investigation,

918
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: but which is great, which is great, We're going to

919
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: spend taxpair dollars on like millions of taxpair dollars on

920
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 2: an investigation, investigator. But are we going to say I

921
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 2: only want an investigation if there's going to be some accountability,

922
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 2: because what are they going to do with this investigation? What?

923
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: It's a fair point, Amber, And I really like, let

924
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: me just let me just ask you this, how much

925
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: investigation do we really need to do? We all saw

926
00:57:54,680 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: what a horrific train wreck the withdrawal of Afghanistan was like.

927
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: Yet you're absolutely right, from Milly on down, there hasn't

928
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: been one single person, not one politician, not not one

929
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: single general, not one single military leader, who's been held

930
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: accountable for that debacle. And at some level, I think

931
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: there has to be accountability.

932
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: There has to be accountability, and if generals and civilian leaders,

933
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 2: civilian sectefs, there needs to be public acknowledgment of their

934
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 2: failures and that their responsibility contributed to this. And it

935
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 2: has to be not political. It has to be completely

936
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 2: just factual. These decisions, these leadership decisions that were made

937
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: by these individuals, you know, failed the US military and

938
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 2: those were serving in the people of Afghanistan. It needs

939
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: to be that blunt. If they can't, you know, like

940
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 2: criminally find financially hold them accountable, then their needs. They

941
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 2: need to publicly be said what the decisions that these

942
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: people made led and the consequences of their actions. But yeah,

943
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 2: the people who are still serving, it is like they

944
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: need to be removed from leadership leadership positions. But the

945
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 2: thing was is that in the military at the Pentagon,

946
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 2: and this isn't just the military, this is a government problem.

947
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: You fail up when you go on with the failed

948
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: decisions and you fall in line. Guess what, you keep

949
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 2: your mouth shut, you get promoted, you move up, you

950
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: speak out, you use common sense, you think critically. Guess what,

951
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 2: you are now a threat and you are going to

952
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: be held accountable for telling the truth.

953
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: I mean, we live in a society with a two

954
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: tiered justice system. And you know, if you look at

955
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: what's going on with Joe Biden and the scandal that

956
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: he's embroiled in with these classified documents, like in the

957
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: carelessness with which he handled them had and then you

958
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: look at the way the general these generals handled Afghanistan

959
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: and the carelessness with which they handled the whole of Afghanistan. No,

960
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: like no accountability for Afghanistan. Is there going to be

961
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: accountability for Joe Biden, who, by the way, is the

962
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: commander in chief of the United States Military. We wouldn't

963
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: get that level of grace if if you and you

964
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: or I as tactical leaders made the same mistakes that

965
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: they did, we would be fired and put out of

966
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: the military in a second.

967
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: Can you even imagine? First of all, no, I don't

968
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: think Joe Biden's going to be held accountable. I don't

969
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 2: not for a second. I wasn't even surprised. I wasn't

970
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 2: even surprised when I heard about this, about the cost

971
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: by documents. I just was like, sounds about right. Uh

972
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 2: so the Yeah, imagine a captain or maybe like an

973
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: E five, you know, all the clearances, goes in a skiff,

974
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: is working on something, just takes this many documents, stuffs

975
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 2: them in his backpack and walks out. What would happen

976
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 2: to that guy?

977
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely right, Yes, absolutely right, And there'll be no

978
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: discussion about it.

979
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, no discussion. They would be like committing treason, a

980
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 2: threat to the United States government. So it's just like

981
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 2: you said, the two tier justice system, the political elites.

982
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: When you're on the right wrong the right side, how

983
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: you get treated and how everybody looks the other way

984
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 2: for you versus everybody else. It's really on American And

985
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: I don't know how long you carry on like that

986
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 2: before people wake up to the reality and get very

987
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 2: angry about that about one standard being held to the

988
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: political elite and those on the right side and then

989
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 2: those everybody else.

990
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,959
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and now, Amber, you have two kids

991
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: of your own. How old are you got a boy

992
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: and a girl? How old are they?

993
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 2: You do? Four and too?

994
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: Four and two? Yeah, So I tried to do a

995
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: little bit of math before the pro try to figure

996
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: out how old your kids were. So you're still in

997
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: the thick of it with your little ones, like where

998
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: they're probably waking up in the middle of the night.

999
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: And and so you've made the transition from you know,

1000
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: running combat missions in Afghanistan and a Kyo Warrior helicopter

1001
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: flying into troops in contact of probably watching Doc mcstuffans

1002
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: and knowing all the lyrics on all of those Disney

1003
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: those Disney shows, which which is yeah, will you Pepa Pig?

1004
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: Which is a journey in and of itself, an adventurous

1005
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: one at that, But what do you would you want

1006
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: your children joining the military because your oldest is four,

1007
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: So in fourteen years that go by like that in

1008
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: fourteen years. So we talked about your parents and how

1009
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: they were supportive of you joined the military during a

1010
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: time of war, and how they clearly how I don't

1011
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: know how either. I mean, I'm a parent with young

1012
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,439
Speaker 1: children as well. I have no idea how I would

1013
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: react to a situation like that. With where the military

1014
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: is today, where are you on that?

1015
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 2: The answer is a hard no, And that absolutely breaks

1016
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: my heart to say that. But the military that I

1017
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: served in I don't even recognize anymore. It doesn't exist.

1018
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 2: And that's hard because I devoted a significant chunk of

1019
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: my life to it and it did do so much

1020
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: for me. It was extremely hard and challenging, and it

1021
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 2: forced myself to the red line where you learn what

1022
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 2: you're capable of and your limits, and it learned. It

1023
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 2: brings out the best part of you. And so I'm

1024
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: so grateful for my service, and I'm sad that that

1025
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 2: type of a military, with the military leadership that exists today,

1026
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 2: isn't there anymore, and that the positive things that I

1027
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 2: said that the military does for you about character building

1028
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 2: and you know, working with the most diverse group of

1029
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 2: people that is out there and having one solid mission

1030
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 2: and your purpose. I don't believe that that military and

1031
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 2: those experiences are there anymore. I don't feel like it's

1032
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 2: military leadership would have the best interest of my children serving.

1033
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 2: It took me, you know, when I first started having

1034
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: these thoughts about you know, this is real now, like

1035
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 2: my parents are growing up in a household where their

1036
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 2: father is still serving and has had an incredible military career.

1037
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 2: And then you know, I obviously served combat veteran myself,

1038
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,919
Speaker 2: so of course they're going to hear about it and

1039
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 2: be so interested in it. But that's going to be

1040
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 2: a really hard conversation. And like I wish, I hope

1041
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 2: the military gets back on track. It's why I'm so

1042
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 2: vocal and passionate about this is the military needs to

1043
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 2: turn itself around and get back to a mission focused

1044
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 2: organization rather than a Washington, DC political agenda organization and

1045
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 2: really a leadership institution. The United States used to be

1046
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 2: the best like leadership government agency institution out there. West

1047
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 2: Point used to be the number one leadership school in

1048
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 2: the world. Now they're teaching CRT. They used to teach

1049
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: critical thinking, and now they're focused on other things. So

1050
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: it's just like the military has lost its way, and

1051
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 2: it needs to get back on track if they want

1052
01:05:55,520 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 2: to fix this recruiting and retention and morale crisis that

1053
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 2: the military is in right now. I will tell you

1054
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 2: I have been speaking with a lot of active duty

1055
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 2: military and I have been asking them the same question.

1056
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 2: Not one person has said they would recommend military service

1057
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 2: to their children. That is terrifying because when I served

1058
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 2: at the Pentagon, I worked on an initiative called Know

1059
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 2: Your Military, which connects the American public that doesn't have

1060
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 2: much of a connection to those who serve, and then

1061
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 2: connects them to the military. It's part of bridging the

1062
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 2: civilian military divide. And through our research, we found that

1063
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 2: the military had really turned into a family business. People

1064
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 2: who have parents who serve are so much more likely

1065
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 2: to serve than those without military parents are without that

1066
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 2: direct connection to the military. And now this trend in

1067
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 2: people who are serving are not recommending to their children

1068
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 2: that they serve in the military is like, we think

1069
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 2: recruitment is bad this current generation, what's it going to

1070
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 2: look like in the next generation? And people need to

1071
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 2: wake up to the national security threat that that is

1072
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 2: when are like, like, we have an all volunteer service

1073
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 2: right now, is it always going to be like that?

1074
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: How do we get things back on the right track.

1075
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 2: We do. We start by fixing the general problem. And

1076
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 2: the thing is is that it's not an easy fix. Uh.

1077
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: It's going to have to be Congress and the executive

1078
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: branch working together. And what I just said doesn't actually

1079
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 2: exist in real life. So I don't think there's going

1080
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 2: to be much change. It would require both of them

1081
01:07:55,680 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 2: focusing on leadership at the Pentagon and understanding that that

1082
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 2: sort of legacy generals are the problem, are part of

1083
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 2: the problem, and they've just become yes man, that's what's said.

1084
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 2: The generals of World War Two no longer exist. Those

1085
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: aren't the generals in the military today. And so that's

1086
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 2: kind of step one, you know, root out the toxic leadership,

1087
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 2: the people who are you know, pushing these woke agendas

1088
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 2: onto the military over readiness, over mission success. And that's

1089
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 2: more on the political leadership side that we see with

1090
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: the sect deaf and his sort of priorities for the

1091
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 2: US military. Uh. That so there's a lot to do,

1092
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 2: But with the way the military is treating those who

1093
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 2: are currently serving, it's having a serious effect. We saw

1094
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 2: what the COVID mandate did. It really was damaging to

1095
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 2: a lot of people serving who were forced into a

1096
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 2: corner and completely told that their principles didn't matter. So

1097
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:18,759
Speaker 2: they were told to basically, you know, the army values

1098
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 2: that you learn from day one. They were essentially said to, like, Nope,

1099
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 2: get rid of those and just do what we tell

1100
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: you too. Don't stand by your values anymore.

1101
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: It's terrifying. It sounds like it. I mean, the research

1102
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: that you conducted at the Pentagon and the idea that

1103
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: the military is a family business. People who have parents

1104
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: who serve are more likely to serve themselves. What do

1105
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: you do when your parents are like, na, ceasefire on that, kiddo,

1106
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: Like it's not a good time to join. Raises very

1107
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 1: serious questions of whether or not you can even have

1108
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: in all volunteer force in five or ten years from now.

1109
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: And man, I don't know, amber you're a warrior. I

1110
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: want to be respectful of your time. How so, how

1111
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,799
Speaker 1: how has being a con I want to talk about

1112
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:18,640
Speaker 1: you now, how has being a warrior in a helicopter

1113
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: pilot shaped who you've become as a mom?

1114
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 2: I guess it's made me more critical and focused on

1115
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 2: their future and some of the things they're going to

1116
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 2: be up against in this world. I know, like I want,

1117
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 2: I do get very concerned about the direction of this

1118
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 2: country and the divisiveness and how you're no longer to

1119
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 2: think critically or have a voice of your own without

1120
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 2: having to worry about going against the mainstream and the

1121
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 2: consequences that come with it. But like I said, I

1122
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 2: grew up loving America, loving the freedoms that I got

1123
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,600
Speaker 2: to enjoy every day growing up, and I want to

1124
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 2: ensure that my children get to experience that level of freedom,

1125
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 2: that level of opportunity, and the joys that come with

1126
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: all of that. So it is very important to me

1127
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 2: that I continue to fight that fight in my own

1128
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 2: way by helping preserve the America that I know in

1129
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 2: love and that I fought to protect and two wars for.

1130
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 2: And I can only hope that more Americans are waking up.

1131
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 2: I think if there is one silver lining to the

1132
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 2: disaster of the COVID nineteen response is that I think

1133
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 2: it did wake up some sleeping Americans to big government

1134
01:11:56,479 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 2: power and control and utilizing fear as a way to

1135
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 2: get that power and control. And so I do think

1136
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 2: that I hope that many Americans woke up to some

1137
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 2: of the tyranny that we are now seeing on our

1138
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 2: own doorsteps, which is terrifying and it happened very quickly.

1139
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 2: But I think it's important to find your voice, speak

1140
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 2: out about it.

1141
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: I totally agree, find your voice, speak out about it,

1142
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: take a stand, think critically, think for yourself. Amber. This

1143
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: country is so lucky and blessed to have people like

1144
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 1: you in it. And thank you for coming on today.

1145
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: Thank you for your perspective, and thank you for joining

1146
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: me on Battleground.

1147
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: Can I say, Mamartha, of course you can. I just

1148
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 2: want to say, Sean number one. I'm so excited for

1149
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 2: this podcast because you're like made for it, and also

1150
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:01,680
Speaker 2: so back in the day. You were my biggest advocate

1151
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 2: for getting my book off the ground, for telling me

1152
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 2: that I have a story, for helping me find my voice,

1153
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 2: and being such a big supporter of my book with

1154
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 2: everything that I needed. And I just can't thank you

1155
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 2: enough for being such an awesome person friend American. You're

1156
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 2: the real deal and America needs you. I know you're

1157
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 2: going to stay in the fight.

1158
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,759
Speaker 1: Thanks Amber, I really appreciate that. Thank you for saying

1159
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: that you got it.

1160
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on Sehn.

1161
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,679
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, that's a wrap. I hope you enjoyed

1162
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 1: my conversation with Amber. If you did, be sure to

1163
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe to my

1164
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: YouTube channel for more exclusive content. We need your help.

1165
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: This is a show for you. It cuts through all

1166
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: of the bs that is wholly dedicated to preserving the

1167
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,799
Speaker 1: legacy of those who served and celebrating the greatest country

1168
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: on the face of the planet, the United States of America.

1169
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: Join us in that journey. We need you. If you

1170
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: like the podcast, send me an email, shoot me a

1171
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: message on social media. You know that I read them

1172
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: and that I try to respond to everything and leave

1173
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 1: a review because that helps us too. And as always,

1174
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:22,520
Speaker 1: God bless you all, and God bless this incredible country

1175
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: that we live in.

1176
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 2: Take care