Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me for session four or two of the
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
Speaker 1: conversation afterword from our sponsors. It goes without saying that
Speaker 1: the ninety two percent understood the assignment during the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four election, But what are we to make of
Speaker 1: it when we still end up exactly where we are today,
Speaker 1: struggling to make sense of our place in the world,
Speaker 1: with leaders in legislation increasingly being utilized against us. You
Speaker 1: can't deny the tables have turned, but how can you
Speaker 1: resist joining me? Fresh off the release of her new book,
Speaker 1: Flip the tables. The everyday disruptor's guide to finding courage
Speaker 1: and making change is a Lindsia Johnson. She's the founder
Speaker 1: of ten sixty three West broad, a consultancy and media
Speaker 1: company that connects organizations to purpose driven solutions. Serving as
Speaker 1: a political advisor and strategist for President Biden, VP Harris,
Speaker 1: Senator Elizabeth Warren, and Planned Parenthood, where she created the
Speaker 1: Stand with Black Women initiative. She's uniquely equipped to dissect
Speaker 1: exactly how we got here and what we can do
Speaker 1: about it. During our conversation, we explore what it means
Speaker 1: to be a disruptor and how nuanced black women's roles
Speaker 1: are as we prepare for a trying four years, from
Speaker 1: DEI bands at the supermarket to understanding authenticity in a
Speaker 1: political campaign. Alyncia is sharing it all. This conversation is
Speaker 1: a continuation of our reflection on the past, present, in
Speaker 1: future of Black girlhood and womanhood. In celebration of four
Speaker 1: hundred episodes of Therapy for Black Girls. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: for you to dig into this conversation. If something resonates
Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us
Speaker 1: on social media. Using the hashtag TVG in session. Here's
Speaker 1: our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Lindcia.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so before we jump into the conversation, I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear a little bit more about your background. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about ten sixty three
Speaker 1: with Broad and what got you into consulting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny because my background is political, and
Speaker 3: there's always this like joke about how every person who's
Speaker 3: in politics ends up being a political consultant.
Speaker 2: But for me, it actually was just.
Speaker 3: Kind of a natural next step to own some more
Speaker 3: of my time and my space in my head. But
Speaker 3: before I founded ten sixty three US BROAD, I actually
Speaker 3: started my career in corporate communications at Geico and did
Speaker 3: a lot of work around their internal work and then
Speaker 3: some of their government relationships stuff.
Speaker 2: I helped the communications around it, and then I.
Speaker 3: Got what felt like the opportunity that propelled my entire career,
Speaker 3: which was when I worked for President Obama's reelection campaign
Speaker 3: in twenty twelve in Chicago. And that was such a
Speaker 3: transformative experience, especially because I did a lot of work
Speaker 3: with different surrogates from CBC members to your favorite entertainers,
Speaker 3: understanding how messaging really works because of who the messenger is.
Speaker 3: And then I went to Planning Parenthood for six years
Speaker 3: their national office.
Speaker 2: I had several different roles.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people may be familiar with
Speaker 3: framework that I helped found there, the stand with black women.
Speaker 3: People see those T shirts and bags everywhere, and so
Speaker 3: I really spent a lot of time getting Planned Parenthood
Speaker 3: in spaces where we could have honest conversations about what
Speaker 3: reproductive freedom looked like for women who look like me,
Speaker 3: for people who are not white, cis gender, heterosexual women,
Speaker 3: and all of our intersections how that works. And so
Speaker 3: from advocacy, entertainment politics was doing all of that there.
Speaker 3: And then I went to work for singer Elizabeth Warren
Speaker 3: and was her national director of public Engagement for her
Speaker 3: presidential And then after that, I was like, what do
Speaker 3: I do. It's the pandemic and I don't know if
Speaker 3: I want to get on the hamster wheel of a
Speaker 3: campaign the general election and Biden's campaign in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: I really like this, some of this like entertainment, cultural,
Speaker 3: corporate stuff I'm doing to get these institutions to really
Speaker 3: show up for not only their consumers, but literally like
Speaker 3: explain what their values are. And so I became kind
Speaker 3: of an accidental entrepreneur. I had my LLCA because it's
Speaker 3: black women. We're always ready, right, And so I said, oh, okay, well,
Speaker 3: I guess I'm consulting now, this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 3: And that's how I started ten sixty three US Broad,
Speaker 3: which is named after the street that my grandmother, my
Speaker 3: late grandmother, the last address that she had, and so
Speaker 3: that's what ten sixty three Wes Broad is. And then
Speaker 3: under that umbrella, I also was a senior advisor to
Speaker 3: President Biden's twenty twenty campaign when he was vice president,
Speaker 3: and then fast forward twenty twenty four, also did some
Speaker 3: work for Vice President Harris's campaign as well, and so
Speaker 3: have done a lot of projects that that's a little
Speaker 3: bit of my bio. Yeah, a lot. Love it.
Speaker 1: So many different interesting but also intersecting kinds of areas
Speaker 1: that you're really being operating in. So I'm really excited
Speaker 1: to have this conversation with you because I'm really fascinated
Speaker 1: by like the psychology of voting and like messaging, which
Speaker 1: it sounds like you have a lot of expertise in
Speaker 1: so can you say a little bit like a one
Speaker 1: oh one when you're working on a campaign and like
Speaker 1: serving as an advisor for a campaign, like what kinds
Speaker 1: of things are you trying to think about in terms
Speaker 1: of voting and getting your message to the people that
Speaker 1: you hope to get to vote for you.
Speaker 3: I love that question because I don't work for any
Speaker 3: elected official. Right now, We're gonna have some real talk,
Speaker 3: you know, because as a black political strategist and this work,
Speaker 3: sometimes we also get frustrated that our ideas of reaching
Speaker 3: voters isn't the one that the campaign manager decides to
Speaker 3: approve and go forward with. I think for me, as
Speaker 3: I'm looking to engage voters, I first want to build
Speaker 3: trust with them, and that actually starts by listening. Sure,
Speaker 3: there are policy positions that obviously have like the research
Speaker 3: and the background and the understanding of knowing how a
Speaker 3: community can actually advance towards equity, opportunity, justice, all of that.
Speaker 3: But if you roll into a community that isn't ready
Speaker 3: to embrace you without really understanding their concerns or how
Speaker 3: they even show up around an issue, they're gonna put
Speaker 3: you on mute, not even that they're gonna slam the
Speaker 3: door in your face, right, And so the best part
Speaker 3: of strategy is to do some research and do some polling,
Speaker 3: and do some I actually prefer focus groups instead of polling.
Speaker 2: People talk about polling a lot, but think about it.
Speaker 3: I know these phone numbers that are calling me are
Speaker 3: probably some polster, and I sometimes don't answer it. I'm
Speaker 3: in the middle of this, So imagine other people who
Speaker 3: you know, we talk about these spam text messages and
Speaker 3: phone calls that people don't answer. You're not gathering them there,
Speaker 3: but you can gather folks in focus groups, working with
Speaker 3: community organizations and getting people around the table to listen
Speaker 3: to them on how they're thinking about certain issues, what
Speaker 3: they know about an election coming up. And then often
Speaker 3: you find that the awareness and the literacy around government
Speaker 3: and civics is very low in this country. Literacy is
Speaker 3: low in this country, unfortunately, and so a lot of
Speaker 3: times it's a matter of, Okay, how do I inform
Speaker 3: them about not only election day, but let me step back,
Speaker 3: what they're voting for and what this elected official not
Speaker 3: just the president, but they're council members, school board member,
Speaker 3: state's attorneys general, like what are these positions, what do
Speaker 3: they mean? What does this ballot initiative mean? And those
Speaker 3: are some of the things that I look for before
Speaker 3: I even start crafting the message. And then I also
Speaker 3: want to know who they listen to. There's a saying
Speaker 3: I have of most of the time, it's not the message,
Speaker 3: it's the messenger. And it's really hard to tell a
Speaker 3: politician that they're not the best messenger for a lot
Speaker 3: of communities. But I know my community, right, I know when, okay,
Speaker 3: they've been talking about this random hairdresser that like everybody
Speaker 3: listens to, or this person that everyone watches in this
Speaker 3: television show, or this community voice. If they're actually going
Speaker 3: to move people to action, you got to check your ego,
Speaker 3: mister or ms politician and really get the messenger out
Speaker 3: there that people already trust. And that is something that
Speaker 3: I'm constantly looking for as well.
Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about the battle to
Speaker 1: kind of get the person that you're working for to
Speaker 1: hear your side, right, Because in theory, they hire you
Speaker 1: because you have this expertise with this community. But then
Speaker 1: sometimes there is a difficulty with them listening. So what
Speaker 1: kinds of things help you to kind of really argue
Speaker 1: your point and kind of make them see your case.
Speaker 3: It's in I don't know if it's forty eight Laws
Speaker 3: of Power, but somewhere in like those lists of things
Speaker 3: that you can do to win people's arguments.
Speaker 2: I think for me, you learn.
Speaker 3: To play the people's ego and their stress, right, you
Speaker 3: know what makes them light up?
Speaker 2: Right? And if I need to ask.
Speaker 3: You to step back from being the public face of this,
Speaker 3: what am I giving you on the other end to
Speaker 3: occupy your time or also elevate your voice around this issue?
Speaker 3: But maybe in a different setting. Right, There's always some
Speaker 3: trade offs, and then there's the very honest and frank
Speaker 3: conversation about what the community needs. And when you're working
Speaker 3: for elected officials or advocacy organizations and their leaders, you
Speaker 3: kind of remind them that the end goal is to
Speaker 3: actually get the services or get the win for these communities.
Speaker 3: And if we have the research and data to show,
Speaker 3: or we even have direct conversations that have told us
Speaker 3: this is what people need, you have to have that
Speaker 3: tough conversation. But it takes a lot of courage and
Speaker 3: shortness of yourself, which I write a little bit about
Speaker 3: in my book With the Tables, and understanding that that's
Speaker 3: going to be an uncomfortable conversation sometimes to tell someone
Speaker 3: that they are not the best messenger. But we have
Speaker 3: to have those uncomfortable conversations in order to get to
Speaker 3: the win. And I would rather sit in my discomfort
Speaker 3: with my boss or decision maker if that means that
Speaker 3: the greater community in my community especially is going to
Speaker 3: benefit from that. And so you also have to be
Speaker 3: okay with getting uncomfortable. And I talked about it actually
Speaker 3: a little bit in my book when I worked for
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren and when I was at Playparenthoad when Cecil
Speaker 3: Richards got rest her soul.
Speaker 2: You know, I worked for her too.
Speaker 3: At Plain Parenthead, we had very frank and difficult conversations
Speaker 3: about race. And you know, I have to tell two
Speaker 3: white women at times, you're not the best messenger here,
Speaker 3: or we should have a woman of color making this
Speaker 3: decision instead, and thankfully they are white women that listened.
Speaker 3: But you know, you have to be comfortable with being
Speaker 3: uncomfortable in those courageous conversations.
Speaker 1: So I think that we find ourselves that are very
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the best adjective to use
Speaker 1: about where we find ourselves in this in history, as
Speaker 1: Black women in particular. And so when we think about
Speaker 1: VP Harris's run recently, what do you think her campaign
Speaker 1: and just who she was represents for Black women both
Speaker 1: politically and beyond.
Speaker 3: I have so many thoughts on that question, but the
Speaker 3: one that really comes to mind is there are a
Speaker 3: lot of reasons our culture may not have been ready
Speaker 3: for her because she not only represented a black woman,
Speaker 3: or she is a black woman who is extremely qualified,
Speaker 3: she's also a black woman who shows all the side
Speaker 3: of herself, right, the fact that people were attacking her
Speaker 3: for laughing, or that she cooks and that she dances,
Speaker 3: and those are actually amazing qualities. And the reality is
Speaker 3: our society doesn't want women, doesn't want people of color,
Speaker 3: and that definitely doesn't want Black women to be multifaceted.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: They tell us that you can't be taken serious if
Speaker 3: you have all these other parts of you, and they
Speaker 3: make us hide them, right, they make us conform and
Speaker 3: hide all parts of ourselves. But she didn't do that,
Speaker 3: and I think that was very disruptive and something that
Speaker 3: I feel, and I've heard from a lot of black
Speaker 3: women have identified with, and I've heard from non black women,
Speaker 3: they've identified with her on that part too. The hard
Speaker 3: part for me and I actually asked people in the
Speaker 3: party for years since she became the President Biden's vice
Speaker 3: president actually when he selected her as his vice president's
Speaker 3: running mate.
Speaker 2: Is this party.
Speaker 3: Fully ready to support and protect a black woman in
Speaker 3: this position?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: We saw the attacks on President Obama, we saw the
Speaker 3: attacks on Secretary Clinton?
Speaker 2: Are you ready for that intersection?
Speaker 3: Do we have the apparatus that is going toe to
Speaker 3: toe with these outlets these concernsvative right wing you know,
Speaker 3: creators and influencers that have these platforms, like we have
Speaker 3: to really build a protective apparatus for a black woman
Speaker 3: in this position. And the reflection of that is so
Speaker 3: many of us, as black women have been in these positions,
Speaker 3: these very visible positions. They've propped us up as leaders,
Speaker 3: but then no one is ready to actually have the
Speaker 3: difficult conversations of ensuring that there's protection there, right, And
Speaker 3: some of that is also ensuring that the white people
Speaker 3: who say that they support us are checking their own biases, right,
Speaker 3: are okay with being having to answer to a black woman?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Those microaggressions that come up, And so I don't believe
Speaker 3: that the party beyond the Democratic Party, our society, our
Speaker 3: culture has fully embraced that just yet. But I do
Speaker 3: think that her candidacy has disrupted the notion of what
Speaker 3: a black woman is supposed to be, and it has
Speaker 3: given us so much hope.
Speaker 2: And I believe that all of us are proud of her.
Speaker 3: And we don't blame what happened on the election on her.
Speaker 3: I don't blame it on her. I mean was billion dollars.
Speaker 3: I think there were other decision makers. I don't blame
Speaker 3: it on her.
Speaker 1: And how do you feel like the results of the election,
Speaker 1: How did that impact you both personally and professionally coming
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty five? I imagine you know you had maybe
Speaker 1: different plans if the election, if she had been elected.
Speaker 1: How did that shape and impact you for twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five and beyond?
Speaker 3: Oh all right, doctor Joy, I am now thinking about
Speaker 3: the night election. I was at Howard and we were
Speaker 3: so excited, and then the returns weren't looking the way
Speaker 3: that we wanted them to, and I started to get
Speaker 3: the same feeling I had in twenty sixteen at the
Speaker 3: job at Center in New York, watching Hillary Clinton's returns
Speaker 3: and we were hopeful. We were so hopeful. We all
Speaker 3: then went out to the lawn. We were just we
Speaker 3: were very, very hopeful. But it was a long drive home.
Speaker 3: Even though from my house to Howard is eighteen minutes,
Speaker 3: I felt like an hour. And I was sad, and
Speaker 3: I could not get out of bed for two days.
Speaker 3: Literally could not get out of bed for two days.
Speaker 3: I turned off the news, even though I'm on cable
Speaker 3: news often, I turned off the news. I cried. I
Speaker 3: just if I got out of my bed, I was
Speaker 3: on the couch, but otherwise I hadn't seen sunlight or anything.
Speaker 3: And I finally pulled myself together that Thursday, and I
Speaker 3: went for a long walk in my neighborhood, and I
Speaker 3: had this very clear feeling, or very clear message from
Speaker 3: God that it is time to take care of yourself
Speaker 3: as a black woman. You have taken care of everyone
Speaker 3: else as black women. The ninety two percent has taken
Speaker 3: care of everyone else and told people what is true
Speaker 3: and told people the path forward, and no one continues
Speaker 3: to listen. And so you were going to be the
Speaker 3: only person that saves yourself. And I'd already been in
Speaker 3: this mindset of taking care of myself above all, because
Speaker 3: in order for me to do this good work, in
Speaker 3: order for me to show up for my friends and
Speaker 3: family and loved ones.
Speaker 2: I have to be whole. But there was a very
Speaker 2: clear oh no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3: This resistance requires your rest, It requires your health, It
Speaker 3: requires you to get your finances in order, it requires
Speaker 3: for you to be so taken care of that you
Speaker 3: are able to take care of other people. And then professionally,
Speaker 3: you know, I have a book coming out in March,
Speaker 3: so there were a lot of conversations people were having.
Speaker 2: Had she one that I was like, Mmm.
Speaker 3: I want to put this book out in the world
Speaker 3: because I think it really frames how we can be
Speaker 3: disruptors of our own life, but then also in the
Speaker 3: world around us.
Speaker 2: That gets us to a place where we.
Speaker 3: Are actually voting around our values, that we are showing
Speaker 3: up around our values, and we wouldn't have outcomes in
Speaker 3: the way that we did. And so professionally, to be honest,
Speaker 3: things haven't changed too much, except for I do a
Speaker 3: lot of political commentary and I ended up in October
Speaker 3: disclosing my sexual assault story on national television on CNN,
Speaker 3: and it was in the heat of an argument around
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's latest accuser and the hundreds of survivors who
Speaker 3: had endorsed Vice President Harris and I just ended up
Speaker 3: disclosing that I too, am a survivor.
Speaker 2: And I didn't realize.
Speaker 3: Until I got home, like the magnitude of that on
Speaker 3: myself personally. Right I was getting all these thank you notes.
Speaker 3: The producers in my ears were asking if I was okay.
Speaker 3: One of the camera guys when I walked out the
Speaker 3: studio he said, thank you for my sister, and I
Speaker 3: was in this adrenaline high. But by the time I
Speaker 3: got home, I felt the emotional weight of that, and
Speaker 3: I felt that this space isn't as safe for me
Speaker 3: as it used to be, this space of political commentary
Speaker 3: that you know, ratings come from entertainment. You need people
Speaker 3: to be entertained to stay in television, to stay tuned in.
Speaker 3: And I had to really think about what does that
Speaker 3: look like for me? So I'll still do it, but
Speaker 3: am I going to do it as much as I
Speaker 3: did before.
Speaker 2: And be in this heightened sense of like it.
Speaker 3: Felt like fight or flight all the time, like I'm
Speaker 3: fighting for my life. And to be honest, Doctor Joey,
Speaker 3: I was by myself. It was Wooplitzer, and I don't
Speaker 3: know if he identifies as a man of color, but
Speaker 3: he was a man who was there representing the Donald
Speaker 3: Trump campaign. There was another man reporter, and I was
Speaker 3: there by myself, by myself. Nobody stepped in to acknowledge
Speaker 3: what I said. No one stepped in and said, hey,
Speaker 3: this argument is taken a term, and I said, I'm
Speaker 3: not putting myself in that position ever again. So I
Speaker 3: am reimagining the conversations that I want to have with
Speaker 3: the public about our values, how we show up, because
Speaker 3: politics is just an extension of our values, right, and
Speaker 3: so how do we have those conversations. And that's something
Speaker 3: that I am looking at and this current climate because again,
Speaker 3: no one's coming to save black women, So I have
Speaker 3: to think about myself, my own health, my own spiritual protection,
Speaker 3: my own physical protection.
Speaker 2: And so those are some of the things that I
Speaker 2: thought about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, you know,
Speaker 1: and Listina, you have so beautifully described I think what
Speaker 1: has felt like a collective experience for black women, Like
Speaker 1: it feels like many of us arrived at that same
Speaker 1: place and there was no zoom meeting that we got
Speaker 1: on right, like It just does feel like something switched
Speaker 1: for a lot of Black women after the election result
Speaker 1: in this ninety two percent has almost become this like
Speaker 1: a rallying in some ways, And I love to hear
Speaker 1: kind of your thoughts about, like how do we actually
Speaker 1: make that useful and impactful?
Speaker 2: Well, what do you think, like what.
Speaker 1: Are you making of this collective experience of black women
Speaker 1: feeling a need to step back? Like I really got
Speaker 1: to prior reprioritize myself so that I can kind of
Speaker 1: be ready to resist.
Speaker 3: It literally was like the ninety two percent we were
Speaker 3: all saying the same thing. It's like our souls had
Speaker 3: a meeting, right, or it was like our ancestors gave us
Speaker 3: the language, right. And I think it kind of started.
Speaker 3: It probably started well before this, but I think the
Speaker 3: outcome of the twenty sixteen election, there was a very
Speaker 3: clear black women we good like y'all wanted to come
Speaker 3: talk to us.
Speaker 2: We know what we're doing, we see the future.
Speaker 3: We will vote in ways and for people that we
Speaker 3: necessarily may not love, but we know how the rest
Speaker 3: of y'all in America will show up. So we need
Speaker 3: to figure out the best way to reduce harm, right,
Speaker 3: and I love that collective. I'm tapping out, And I
Speaker 3: talked to a lot of girlfriends who are still directly
Speaker 3: in political movements and they're like, well, we can't tap out,
Speaker 3: and I said, but I can step back and take
Speaker 3: care of myself, because you know, Audrey Lauren told us
Speaker 3: about self care.
Speaker 2: It is literally political warfare, but it is important. Right.
Speaker 3: There's a reason that the book Rest Is Resistance is
Speaker 3: a New York Times bestseller because there is this reality
Speaker 3: that we are worthy of taking care of ourselves for
Speaker 3: not to labor more, but just to take care of ourselves,
Speaker 3: like that is our divine right to rest, to have joy.
Speaker 3: And at the same time, it is such resistance under
Speaker 3: capitalism to say I'm tapping out right, I'm not going
Speaker 3: to continue to labor myself and the structure that doesn't
Speaker 3: actually work for me, that actually does more.
Speaker 2: Harm to me.
Speaker 3: And so most of the trends I did see, there
Speaker 3: are a lot of black women who said, I'm not
Speaker 3: tapping in at all, and I was like, but as
Speaker 3: black women, we kind of just always do like we'll
Speaker 3: show back up, right, And I do believe that it's
Speaker 3: started the important courageous conversation for us to say publicly
Speaker 3: that we are going to take care of ourselves first
Speaker 3: because no one else will. And then I feel like
Speaker 3: it reminded us of how important community is.
Speaker 2: It reminded us.
Speaker 3: Of how important it is to get offline. It reminded
Speaker 3: us of how important it is to maybe dive a
Speaker 3: little bit deeper in our connections with other black women,
Speaker 3: right to expand our circle of black women. Most of
Speaker 3: my closest girlfriends are black women. But what are the
Speaker 3: conversations that I'm having with them? Are we bringing more
Speaker 3: people to the table, and how are we talking about
Speaker 3: protection and navigating the way forward. I also believe that
Speaker 3: that was an opportunity for us to realize that we
Speaker 3: have to go offline. One go offline to protect ourselves
Speaker 3: and our souls and recharge. But also we can't talk
Speaker 3: about the strategy in public all the time. I mean,
Speaker 3: now we're seeing that with the whole response to particularly Target,
Speaker 3: Target and their di it's like black women are having
Speaker 3: We've been knocked off of our equilibrium a little bit
Speaker 3: because we have such a relationship with Target, and then
Speaker 3: they have so many black women brands, And this conversation
Speaker 3: has been interesting to follow. But the ninety two percent
Speaker 3: have said, over history, we have carried this country. We
Speaker 3: have literally birth this nation, even if we didn't want to,
Speaker 3: we have literally given birth to this nation. And we
Speaker 3: know america sins, and we know that at the intersection
Speaker 3: of all of our identities, the harm will be the
Speaker 3: hardest on us, and so we understand how to reduce harm.
Speaker 3: So now we have to go into community and we
Speaker 3: have to find that and do it in ways that
Speaker 3: are underground and offline.
Speaker 1: So, as someone with a background in corporate communications, I
Speaker 1: can imagine that all kinds of light bulbs have been
Speaker 1: going on for you around. It's specifically right because tiet
Speaker 1: is the most recent example of this, like all of
Speaker 1: these companies coming out talking about rolling back DEI and
Speaker 1: all of those things. How can you help us to
Speaker 1: make sense of it?
Speaker 3: You said it so right, doctor Joe Target got us
Speaker 3: fight each other. And also it's like mind boggling because
Speaker 3: so often we yell, well, you should listen to a
Speaker 3: black business owner, You should listen to the black person
Speaker 3: who's going to be harmed the most. And then you
Speaker 3: have all these black women, particularly black women brands, their
Speaker 3: CEOs and founders are talking about the nuance here, and
Speaker 3: folks are like, no, no, no, no, no, that's a cop oule.
Speaker 3: You're trying to save a corporation. My analysis here, given
Speaker 3: my corporate background, given the fact that I actually do still.
Speaker 2: Work with corporations, is that we.
Speaker 3: Clearly have them been paying attention to their values. Folks
Speaker 3: think that what I have gathered in the online conversation.
Speaker 3: I know that this is not what most people mean.
Speaker 3: But we're reducing DEI to just a response to George
Speaker 3: Floyd's murder in twenty twenty. DEI has been around.
Speaker 2: Well before then.
Speaker 3: We know that DEI has also never really been invested
Speaker 3: in in the way that it should be, right like
Speaker 3: it was always the let me give this black person
Speaker 3: this title.
Speaker 2: They can go do some panels and then.
Speaker 3: They'll be happy and we don't actually have to really
Speaker 3: do this inclusion work. And there were ways too, and
Speaker 3: not saying that all companies have been that way, but
Speaker 3: there are some companies who you could tell quickly.
Speaker 2: That they didn't care about it.
Speaker 3: They just wanted to do stuff on the surface to
Speaker 3: do their annual report their stakeholders, their shareholders report to
Speaker 3: say that they met these numbers. And so we actually
Speaker 3: have to be better at understanding the values of these companies, right,
Speaker 3: and if they have been able to maneuver through a
Speaker 3: society and culture that's changing and kept up with the times,
Speaker 3: the reality is DEI well as they're using it is.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I think.
Speaker 3: It's just these white conservatives way of getting away with
Speaker 3: not saying the N word with a hard er They
Speaker 3: are gaslighting us, right, like these are dog whistles. What
Speaker 3: they are really talking about is black people. But we
Speaker 3: know that a lot of DEI practices, whether in corporations
Speaker 3: or even if you think about affirmative action benefit of
Speaker 3: white women, right, benefits other people who are not white men.
Speaker 3: And so there's going to be a rude awakening here.
Speaker 3: I think we'll see companies double down, some get innovative
Speaker 3: in the way that they talk about inclusion, and then
Speaker 3: we'll see companies show their true colors. Like I was
Speaker 3: really kind of surprised about the energy around Target when
Speaker 3: I'm like, we should have been rallying against Walmart like
Speaker 3: a decade ago. Again, as someone who has family who
Speaker 3: has to rely on Walmart because that's literally the only
Speaker 3: big box store where they live, even though they wouldn't
Speaker 3: want to but like we got to talk about the
Speaker 3: harms that some of these other corporations have done, and
Speaker 3: so it was interesting to see that fight.
Speaker 2: And I said a few things that.
Speaker 3: Just uploaded a few statements on social media, But I
Speaker 3: really want people in this moment, with all of the
Speaker 3: things that are coming from Donald Trump, take a breath, literally,
Speaker 3: like go outside, see some sun, touch some grass, take
Speaker 3: a breath and realize we don't have to respond to everything.
Speaker 3: That's a lesson that our black mamas gave us. You
Speaker 3: don't have to respond to everything, because a tool of
Speaker 3: the oppressor is to distract us and overwhelm us. And
Speaker 3: that is literally what they are doing.
Speaker 2: Literally.
Speaker 3: A one of the authors of Project twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: says that they want to inflict trauma, that they do
Speaker 3: want this to be a traumatic experience. So we have
Speaker 3: to protect how we're going to show up. And I
Speaker 3: say this in the book, but I also say this
Speaker 3: to other people. Pick a couple of issues that you
Speaker 3: care about and focus on those, but do not get
Speaker 3: caught up in a tizzy about every little thing that
Speaker 3: Donald Trump says, because it is going to be horrific
Speaker 3: and that anxiety. You know better than I do what
Speaker 3: anxiety does to us and stressed us to us. It
Speaker 3: throws us off of the course to be focused on
Speaker 3: what we can do right right.
Speaker 1: So you know your book is certainly relevant in this
Speaker 1: political moment, but you started writing the book even before
Speaker 1: this most current election. What were you seeing in observing
Speaker 1: that made you feel like you needed to write this
Speaker 1: guide post to how we can flip the tables.
Speaker 3: This is also part of why I work for myself,
Speaker 3: so I can say whatever. And also I'm talking to
Speaker 3: black women some with my sisters. This is the same stays.
Speaker 3: So there were a couple of things. One, I love
Speaker 3: me some Jesus, my dad's a pastor, and Jesus flipping
Speaker 3: over tables in the temple like that crump Jesus, I
Speaker 3: love him like that is not the benevolent white man
Speaker 3: with blonde hair and blue wives that they like to
Speaker 3: tell us who he is. Now, I like that man
Speaker 3: who cares about the least of these. And so there's
Speaker 3: that spirituality, right, spiritual practice.
Speaker 2: And then at the beginning of the pandemic, this is
Speaker 2: where the concept came from.
Speaker 3: In between working for Senator Warren taking some time off,
Speaker 3: but I was at home with my family and then
Speaker 3: starting working, I was just like, God, what is it
Speaker 3: that I am trying to do?
Speaker 2: Why haven't I gotten out of my own way?
Speaker 3: And yes, I've done a lot of amazing things, but
Speaker 3: thirty two at the time, I had done a lot
Speaker 3: of amazing things, but I still felt as though I
Speaker 3: wasn't going after my dreams for my life. And then
Speaker 3: I realized the connection to me being courageously myself is
Speaker 3: connected to my purpose to show up and disrupt in
Speaker 3: my community. And so I had to disrupt myself as
Speaker 3: someone who was diagnosed with OCD at fifteen years old,
Speaker 3: and I had had a couple of panic attacks, one
Speaker 3: that led me into a very intensive outpatient therapy one
Speaker 3: summer for like.
Speaker 2: Over a month.
Speaker 3: I had to step back and say, wait a minute.
Speaker 3: I've been in therapy, I've got all these tools. Maybe
Speaker 3: I gotta start laning on myself a little bit more.
Speaker 2: Maybe I need to.
Speaker 3: And this is not you know, pushing or seeing that
Speaker 3: we don't need that support, because I do believe you
Speaker 3: constantly need that support. But at some point I have
Speaker 3: to actually take responsibility for the actions. And I can't
Speaker 3: sit here and say, oh, I can't wait till I
Speaker 3: talk to my therapist next week. Well, lindsay you teage
Speaker 3: face the mirror and actually do the thing that you
Speaker 3: all have been talking about for the past year, Like
Speaker 3: you need to do the thing, and it's hard and
Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable, but you can do it.
Speaker 2: And so once I realized.
Speaker 3: That I could get out of my own way, then
Speaker 3: I realized I needed a bold vision for.
Speaker 2: Who I could be.
Speaker 3: When I started my consultancy, people wanted me to build
Speaker 3: a big agency, and I felt that pressure.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I immediately thought that I had to beat on this
Speaker 3: hamster wheel again. And I was like, that's actually not
Speaker 3: what I want to do. I would like to have
Speaker 3: a certain lifestyle, and I want to lean in my creativity,
Speaker 3: and I want to do all of these other things.
Speaker 3: And then people would say that I sometimes dress too
Speaker 3: flashy or a certain way that didn't look like a
Speaker 3: political black woman, And I said.
Speaker 2: But there's room for all of that. So how can
Speaker 2: I help us disrupt our vision?
Speaker 3: And then all of that courage and vulnerability can lead
Speaker 3: us to being who God has designed us to be,
Speaker 3: to disrupt the communities around us in ways that don't
Speaker 3: require people to quit their jobs and become activists or
Speaker 3: elected officials. You can disrupt right where you are, but
Speaker 3: that starts with healing yourself. And I had to really
Speaker 3: heal some things in my life from some childhood trauma,
Speaker 3: through some relationships and seeing those patterns in order to
Speaker 3: show up better in my community. And then it also
Speaker 3: made me realize that so many of the people that
Speaker 3: I've worked with in politics are very broken people and
Speaker 3: unhealed people, and they inflict so much harm on one another.
Speaker 3: And they'll say, oh, well, you know, I'm doing this
Speaker 3: for the good of the world. I don't have time
Speaker 3: to take care of myself.
Speaker 2: I'm doing this for the good of the world.
Speaker 3: Right, there's this self righteous like ego tied to it,
Speaker 3: so they never really heal themselves, and then so they
Speaker 3: continue to cause harm on other people who are trying
Speaker 3: to do good in the world.
Speaker 2: And I was just tired of that, of seeing so
Speaker 2: many people, like all of us.
Speaker 3: Are broken, but yet we're trying to fix the problems
Speaker 3: in the world, but we can't even treat each other well.
Speaker 3: And so that is the ethos of how Flip the
Speaker 3: Tables came about.
Speaker 2: I needed the book, and as.
Speaker 3: I started writing it, it felt just very Divine God
Speaker 3: was like, this works whether Vice President Harrisons or not.
Speaker 2: This especially works given them where we are right now.
Speaker 3: And it gives people the courage to really heal themselves
Speaker 3: and understand that the work that we have to do
Speaker 3: it to lifetime work. I've always understood that, but I
Speaker 3: think people get very sycklical. They're like, oh, this election
Speaker 3: cycle and this president is supposed to change everything. None
Speaker 3: of these politicians are actually going to save us. But
Speaker 3: how can you build yourself up to be a disruptor
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life and what that looks like.
Speaker 3: And sometimes it is taking a little bit of break.
Speaker 3: Like I took a little bit of the break one
Speaker 3: time and was vacation in all year and was hanging
Speaker 3: out and doing less political and advocacy work. And that's
Speaker 3: okay because it helped me to come back to where
Speaker 3: I am. And So that's the eth a Fop The Tables.
Speaker 3: It's the book that I needed. I just finished the
Speaker 3: audiobook last week and I was crying as I was
Speaker 3: reading it and realizing that, Wow, you really do have
Speaker 3: these tools for yourself, that this is really what a
Speaker 3: Wancia needed at thirty years old. And the career transition
Speaker 3: and even now when I'm questioning myself about certain things.
Speaker 1: You know, there really is something about reading your audiobook
Speaker 1: that is such an emotional experience. I had that too,
Speaker 1: and so many friends like read the audiobook and it's like,
Speaker 1: I guess hearing your words aloud and like imagining other
Speaker 1: people here like really makes it very real.
Speaker 2: I think it did.
Speaker 3: I mean, doctor Joy, I was crying through some of
Speaker 3: the stories I was reading, and I'm like, but I
Speaker 3: wrote it.
Speaker 2: I've worked through it.
Speaker 3: I'm on the other side, but like, it is beautiful, right,
Speaker 3: And I hope the book gives people the courage to
Speaker 3: embrace the going through that discomfort, Like it's okay that
Speaker 3: we're messy and complicated and I really had to you
Speaker 3: will appreciate us that as a virgo in four houses,
Speaker 3: an only child, black women conditioned by this world. Of course,
Speaker 3: I've been hard on myself, but I have learned to
Speaker 3: really like accept myself for who I am, and I
Speaker 3: hope this book gives people that permission to accept themselves
Speaker 3: and it meets them right where they are.
Speaker 1: So in the book, you identify three critical areas that
Speaker 1: you think are important for disruption self vision and community.
Speaker 1: Can you say a little bit more about how those
Speaker 1: all come together to disrupt Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, as I was talking about understanding really my purpose
Speaker 3: and role in the world, I just realized that there
Speaker 3: were some things I hadn't fully worked through, and particularly
Speaker 3: in relationships, and not just romantic relationships, but like friendships,
Speaker 3: and also thinking about, like, God, why am I self
Speaker 3: sabotaging on my goals? My brain is wired differently with
Speaker 3: and anxiety, and also there's some other things going on
Speaker 3: here that are hindering me from moving forward, and like
Speaker 3: why do I keep coming back to certain things? And
Speaker 3: the reality is the longer that I am running away
Speaker 3: from what it is that I am called to do,
Speaker 3: the further I am from showing up in my community
Speaker 3: the way I'm supposed to show up and facing ourselves.
Speaker 3: What I also realize on all my work, facing myself
Speaker 3: has been the hardest thing ever. I can stand up
Speaker 3: in front of international stages on national television and talk
Speaker 3: about how the world's supposed to be, but you want
Speaker 3: me to be vulnerable about my feelings, but about what.
Speaker 2: I've been through.
Speaker 3: That's hard, but it's necessary and I believe that that
Speaker 3: is the critical part of it. Because again I don't
Speaker 3: want to send inflicting more harm on other people, and
Speaker 3: I want all of us to be shining so brightly
Speaker 3: in our lights. We are only able to light everyone else, right,
Speaker 3: We are only able to light the path behind us
Speaker 3: in front of us. And so that is why we
Speaker 3: started with disruption of self. So that's the healing of yourself,
Speaker 3: the unyucking some things and facing some things. They also
Speaker 3: like alleviating that pressure that we put on ourselves, and
Speaker 3: then disruption of vision. You know, we often talk, particularly
Speaker 3: in movement spaces, there's always this conversation of like radical imagination.
Speaker 3: You have to be able to envision something before you
Speaker 3: can even go towards it. And I believe in dreaming
Speaker 3: and all of that, but I had to really think
Speaker 3: about dismantling the positions that people put us in as
Speaker 3: black women, as professional black women.
Speaker 2: And who we are in society.
Speaker 3: And some of it is career advice, but it gets
Speaker 3: to you know, it starts with death to the boss,
Speaker 3: the like having a very real conversation with one of
Speaker 3: my girlfriends of like I'm tired of achieving, I'm done,
Speaker 3: Like how can I like rest more and have joy?
Speaker 3: And you know, how that's been related to suicide rates
Speaker 3: and all of these things, and how being booked and busy.
Speaker 2: Everybody wanted to be booked and busy. What was that saying?
Speaker 3: You know, people wanted to catch flights and not feelings.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, actually, I want to catch all
Speaker 3: these feelings. I want to feel those. And you know what,
Speaker 3: if I don't make Delta Diamond status again next year,
Speaker 3: that's fine, Like that is actually fine. And I then
Speaker 3: went through this chapter of being okay with being good
Speaker 3: enough in some areas of life.
Speaker 2: I want to be great at everything.
Speaker 3: I can actually be horrible at certain things, right, those
Speaker 3: things are okay, and like getting back to our childhood,
Speaker 3: and that again gives us the courage to be who
Speaker 3: we're supposed to be and also allows for us to
Speaker 3: imagine something different, expand the table. And then once we've
Speaker 3: just developed all of this courage, then of course we
Speaker 3: can disrupt our community. Of course we can show up
Speaker 3: in ways and understanding how we can spend our privilege.
Speaker 3: And yes, we use that often to talk to white
Speaker 3: people about spending their white privilege, and white women especially,
Speaker 3: but all of us, depending on our settings, we have
Speaker 3: some sort of privilege and we can use that for good.
Speaker 3: There's an importance in exploring and expanding our capacity for
Speaker 3: empathy and humanity. There's importance in our stories.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I shared how I told my story on CNN and
Speaker 3: the amount of people that that helped, right, Like why
Speaker 3: it's so important for the ava juveneurs to tell certain stories.
Speaker 3: Storytelling is so important, whether it's to one person or
Speaker 3: one million people. And it also reminds us that we
Speaker 3: have to just be the salt and be the light
Speaker 3: in the world, as we are commanded in the Good Book.
Speaker 3: And so I thought that journey is how it's supposed
Speaker 3: to be. So often we start in the community, but
Speaker 3: I can't show up in community well if I'm not well.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, So, Alyssia, it
Speaker 1: is very clear that you have been very committed to therapy,
Speaker 1: like you are talking as you are definitely like on
Speaker 1: the other side of like a lot of these things
Speaker 1: that you have been challenged by. But I can't imagine
Speaker 1: that it was easy to get there, and as a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I know it was. So what would
Speaker 1: you say to maybe other sisters who find themselves kind
Speaker 1: of feeling like okay, achievement is what is equal to
Speaker 1: worthiness and I'm not good enough or I'm not doing
Speaker 1: enough to kind of be in some of these spaces.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great question, and it makes me think
Speaker 3: about I also wrote a little bit about in the book. So,
Speaker 3: up until I moved back to the DC area, I
Speaker 3: never had a therapist who look like me. But I
Speaker 3: knew I needed a black woman therapist who could just
Speaker 3: understand the things that we deal with uniquely in the
Speaker 3: United States. And that really helped me understand that my
Speaker 3: hyper independence was a trauma response. The trauma response that
Speaker 3: sometimes and I hear a lot of people say that,
Speaker 3: but I want us to remind ourselves that the trauma
Speaker 3: that we are experiencing, Yes we have personal stories, but
Speaker 3: we are experiencing systemic trauma as well as a people,
Speaker 3: and so like, there's only but so much that we
Speaker 3: can solve for it ourselves, right, But the things that
Speaker 3: are in our control we have to tend to. And
Speaker 3: I had a therapist just asking me and actually found
Speaker 3: her on your website. She would remind me that every
Speaker 3: time something was really hard or something in my personal
Speaker 3: life wasn't working out, I was going to achieve something else,
Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, I actually really don't want
Speaker 3: to get another degree, although I do want to go
Speaker 3: study religion just for my own personal edification, like I
Speaker 3: want to go study more, right, but I don't need
Speaker 3: to achieve anything else. And it made me really sit
Speaker 3: with myself, and it made me realize that I actually
Speaker 3: don't know how to connect with my emotions and the
Speaker 3: way that I would want to. I can theorize about
Speaker 3: my emotions a lot, but now I need to pay
Speaker 3: attention to how my body's feeling and being mindful and
Speaker 3: really focusing on that. And it really challenged me in
Speaker 3: this iteration of where I'm at right now that black
Speaker 3: women we do not have to achieve anything else. And
Speaker 3: I was sitting in my apartment one time. The consultancy
Speaker 3: was doing really well. You know, I was traveling, I
Speaker 3: could buy things that I wanted, I was dating, like
Speaker 3: I felt like things were aligned. But I actually was
Speaker 3: sitting there and I was like, are you really happy?
Speaker 3: Like are you content? What else do you need? And
Speaker 3: I had to answer that question and interrogate where it
Speaker 3: came from.
Speaker 2: And saying no.
Speaker 3: To people who are offering opportunities was really hard because
Speaker 3: the people why you'd be so good at it? Yeah,
Speaker 3: of course I'd be so good at it. But who
Speaker 3: do I to prove myself to? Because if I continue
Speaker 3: to achieve, what do they say, new levels, new devils, like,
Speaker 3: it's still not a safe space for me. And so
Speaker 3: what am I running from? And why am I running
Speaker 3: from that? Right? And why do I feel as though
Speaker 3: it's as a black woman. I can't say I want
Speaker 3: love as a black woman. I can't say that I
Speaker 3: want to not have to work forty hours a week
Speaker 3: as a black woman. I can't say why do I
Speaker 3: feel like I can't do all of that? Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: because of trauma, and that's the space that I had
Speaker 3: to get to. And now I'm on this journey of Okay,
Speaker 3: you don't feel your emotions in the way that other
Speaker 3: people do. I know some of that's because I'm a
Speaker 3: virgo and I'm always gonna sit here and like think
Speaker 3: about my emotions and not be super excited or not
Speaker 3: be super sad. But actually I want to sit with
Speaker 3: this and if I start crying, I'm gonna sit with
Speaker 3: these tears, let them come.
Speaker 2: Right, And we've never.
Speaker 3: Been given that opportunity, right, I'm very sensitive to that, like,
Speaker 3: this is very new for us. Our mothers didn't have
Speaker 3: that opportunity, right, Our grandmothers definitely didn't have that. And
Speaker 3: so that's also allowed for me to have grace with
Speaker 3: my mom and the other matriarchs in my family, my
Speaker 3: great aunts as we talk through things that I you know,
Speaker 3: am learning, and you have grace with your family for
Speaker 3: the decisions that they made, because black families make decisions
Speaker 3: that you know.
Speaker 2: A lot of us will be talking about online.
Speaker 3: This was some trauma in my childhood, but I view
Speaker 3: it from a lens of they are trying to protect
Speaker 3: us from the trauma of the world.
Speaker 2: Right, respectability was protection.
Speaker 3: Right, the decisions that they made were protection, and so
Speaker 3: having that grace, like having that capacity for that has
Speaker 3: been really helpful too. And being an entrepreneur in control
Speaker 3: of my schedule so that I have the time in
Speaker 3: space is extremely important. And so black women we have
Speaker 3: to create this time and space for ourselves and we
Speaker 3: can't fill it with just any and everything achieving anything else, Like,
Speaker 3: we have got to sit with ourselves and it's okay
Speaker 3: that we discover that I've been harmed, Right, it is unfair,
Speaker 3: and don't immediately get over it. You don't have to
Speaker 3: get over it, right, And so that gentleness with myself
Speaker 3: has been really important, and I hope other black women,
Speaker 3: I know through your podcast black women are feeling as
Speaker 3: though they can be free and that too and don't
Speaker 3: have to achieve as much more.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So am Askia, what would you say, like,
Speaker 1: what does this eruption look like when you are working
Speaker 1: as a part of a larger system? Right? So, I
Speaker 1: think there is some privilege of with entrepreneurship that you
Speaker 1: can kind of make your own schedule and take the
Speaker 1: clients you want or don't. But a lot of people
Speaker 1: are working inside of larger corporate structures or government structures.
Speaker 1: What can disruption look like in those spaces?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. And I had to really
Speaker 3: reflect on what did it look like when you were
Speaker 3: in these rooms and you may have been the youngest
Speaker 3: person there, the only black person there, the only woman there.
Speaker 3: And some of that is asking questions and coming from
Speaker 3: a place with some grace, but asking questions that provoke
Speaker 3: other people to have to answer some of that too,
Speaker 3: as they are dismantling DEI and coming after employee resource
Speaker 3: groups which have been amazing spaces for employees to just
Speaker 3: advocate for their needs, have to figure out how to
Speaker 3: build community with one another so that you can make
Speaker 3: some demands and ask of leadership, but their strengthen members. Right.
Speaker 3: There's also I say this all the time. We are
Speaker 3: hired for our job descriptions. So often we again, I've
Speaker 3: gotten caught up there. So often we get sold by
Speaker 3: the oh, we could see you growing here, we could
Speaker 3: see you doing X, Y and Z.
Speaker 2: We love to embrace your creativity. At the end of
Speaker 2: the day, they've.
Speaker 3: Hired you for your job description, and to be honest,
Speaker 3: it's okay to stick to that job description, and that
Speaker 3: will disrupt the notion that, oh, the black people, we
Speaker 3: can underpay them, keep them at a certain level, and
Speaker 3: they're going to go above and beyond. Yes, it is
Speaker 3: appropriate to go further at times, obviously when you're trying
Speaker 3: to get promoted or whatever it may be. But sometimes
Speaker 3: you literally have to say, hey, I get off a
Speaker 3: five PM I'm leaving today, and that will make them
Speaker 3: reorient their minds of like, wait a minute, this person
Speaker 3: is extremely valuable or.
Speaker 2: You know what, we had.
Speaker 3: Different expectations of them and maybe this isn't the right role,
Speaker 3: and maybe we should shift things for them, right, or
Speaker 3: maybe we should actually look at the reason that we
Speaker 3: hired these people or hired someone and give them the
Speaker 3: opportunity and the support that they need to be successful
Speaker 3: where they are right. There have been tons of times
Speaker 3: where I didn't feel supported and asked to do five
Speaker 3: hundred things. Why Sally was asked to only do ten things?
Speaker 3: But yet Sally was a director and I wasn't even
Speaker 3: an assistant director, right, And so being in these positions
Speaker 3: to courageously share these truths right to bring truth to
Speaker 3: light are really important. I am a big believer in
Speaker 3: labor unions. If you are able to join a union,
Speaker 3: the labor movement is the reason that we have actual
Speaker 3: laws to protect us as workers.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Granted, they need to be updated from the wages, like
Speaker 3: all of them need to be updated, but there is
Speaker 3: like a resurgence of the labor movement. And the other
Speaker 3: thing too, I would advise people, and this is what
Speaker 3: I did when I worked at I actually hated the
Speaker 3: job and I was ready to get into politics. I
Speaker 3: spent time every single day thinking about, Okay, what skills
Speaker 3: set is transferable to the ones that I want and
Speaker 3: to the jobs that I want, and I had to
Speaker 3: carve out time for myself to actually go find those
Speaker 3: other opportunities. So often we get in this position of
Speaker 3: I've been here for ten years and I owe it
Speaker 3: to this company. We don't owe anything to these corporations,
Speaker 3: and we have to have that mindset. The other thing too, is,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure there are a lot of women
Speaker 3: that are listening who are in positions of leadership and
Speaker 3: who are actually the ones calling the meetings. Think about
Speaker 3: who's at the table at that meeting, or think about
Speaker 3: when you're invited into a meeting, who else is at
Speaker 3: the table? Whose voices are there? It is so powerful
Speaker 3: to say, oh, well, Jazzmin is new to this meeting, Jasmine,
Speaker 3: what are you thinking? Even if she's the intern, Jason,
Speaker 3: what are you thinking that? And itself, those little acts
Speaker 3: of disruption are so powerful, and I know they seem
Speaker 3: so simple, but they're actually incredibly important. And the last
Speaker 3: piece is it pertains to what is happening in this world.
Speaker 3: These attacks on black people. I'm gonna stop calling attacks
Speaker 3: on da the attacks on black people. We've got to
Speaker 3: learn to speak their language, and those empowers speak the
Speaker 3: language of money. And white power. I'm never going to
Speaker 3: speak the language of white power, but I will speak
Speaker 3: the language of money, and we have to continuously show
Speaker 3: the value of our dollar. There's a lot of research
Speaker 3: out there and there's a lot of ability. I do
Speaker 3: this with some of my clients of showing them their
Speaker 3: consumer base.
Speaker 2: This is why you actually have.
Speaker 3: To invest in this community, because this is how women buy,
Speaker 3: this is how black people buy, this is how they consume.
Speaker 3: I would want them to invest because it's their values,
Speaker 3: but these are corporations. We got to remove the desire
Speaker 3: for these corporations to show up related to values. They
Speaker 3: show up because of dollars and cents.
Speaker 2: And once I.
Speaker 3: Figured that out, I said, okay, so long as I
Speaker 3: get to my end goal, we can get there however
Speaker 3: we need to get there. But as long as I
Speaker 3: get to my in goal, and that's more resource for
Speaker 3: my community, I will speak your language of dollars and
Speaker 3: cents so that we can get the resources that we need.
Speaker 1: So many more questions, lindsay, I have a ton of
Speaker 1: things that I want to talk to you about, but
Speaker 1: I know you don't have all day to spend with me,
Speaker 1: but I would love for you to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about like where you see the role of black
Speaker 1: women in the future of American politics.
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, I think a lot of issues that we're
Speaker 3: having in politics, particularly on the left, on the side
Speaker 3: of progress, because there are a lot of black women
Speaker 3: who don't necessarily identify as Democrats, but our only side
Speaker 3: of progress.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of conversations about what.
Speaker 3: Went wrong, And I'm like, what went wrong is you
Speaker 3: all don't listen to black women. And I think that
Speaker 3: black women in this moment continue to realize our power
Speaker 3: so that we don't stop participating, right. And I do
Speaker 3: think our role is to be those community educators, right
Speaker 3: to talk to our family and our friends. And I
Speaker 3: have to remind myself and my friends and I who
Speaker 3: do this word all the time. We talk on television,
Speaker 3: we talk on stages, But did we really talk about
Speaker 3: this at our family reunion? Did we really talk about
Speaker 3: this in our chat? And for us to be that
Speaker 3: community voice that we always are and that yes it
Speaker 3: is labor, but that's a labor of love of taking
Speaker 3: care of our community.
Speaker 2: I'm all for us taking care of our community. And
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: See us continuing to make so many wins. We have
Speaker 3: two black women in the United States Senate. That's amazing.
Speaker 3: That is amazing. I know the Senate is the Republicans
Speaker 3: have the control of the Senate, and quite frankly, the
Speaker 3: maps in twenty twenty six do not look good for
Speaker 3: us either. But those two black women there so powerful.
Speaker 3: We can't give up with those two women in those positions.
Speaker 3: We've got black women who are winning states attorneys races,
Speaker 3: we have black women just doing historic things, and so
Speaker 3: I think there's so many of us who want to
Speaker 3: continue to see those wins, and we have to pay
Speaker 3: attention to them, and we have to get invested in
Speaker 3: those campaigns. I will say this, Black women who run
Speaker 3: for office usually don't raise the same amount of money
Speaker 3: as a white man does. And so as we are
Speaker 3: figuring out our budgets, especially over the next few years,
Speaker 3: we should think through what is my political investment? Because
Speaker 3: also as you invest in these politicians, you have a
Speaker 3: say too, what's my political investment? I tie I also,
Speaker 3: I mean at the budget my taxes, I also budget
Speaker 3: for who I'm going to support. But really we are
Speaker 3: going to be those community voices and those real life
Speaker 3: examples of what it looks like to continue to participate
Speaker 3: because so many of the ninety two percent. We know
Speaker 3: that we're not going to win all the time, but
Speaker 3: we have to continue to show up and participate. But
Speaker 3: we will not have our labor be exploited. I think
Speaker 3: we are over that. And we have to also continue
Speaker 3: to talk about framing Vice President Harris's campaign and that
Speaker 3: it was not her. There's a whole system around her,
Speaker 3: because what I don't want is for people to get
Speaker 3: comfortable with not propping up another black woman to potentially
Speaker 3: be president. Right, it shouldn't be that far of a
Speaker 3: gap between Shirlechism and Vice President hair I do believe
Speaker 3: that a black woman can be president and will be president,
Speaker 3: and you know what, this country will be better. And
Speaker 3: so before we do all that again, have a little
Speaker 3: bit of rest and joy. It's actually okay because we
Speaker 3: know what to do and we will show up. But
Speaker 3: like the rest and joy is important for us to
Speaker 3: continue to do our political work.
Speaker 1: Beautifully stated. So where can we stay connected with you
Speaker 1: with Lindsia? Where can we find you online? Where can
Speaker 1: we grab our copy of the book? Please share the details?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you can find me online at Elencia Johnson
Speaker 3: on I believe all my platforms are that or not
Speaker 3: at allanciaj but I'm mostly on Instagram, so at Alncia Johnson, I'm.
Speaker 2: There in threads.
Speaker 3: And then the book you can find at Flipthetables book
Speaker 3: dot com. That's Tables with an S, so Flip Thetables
Speaker 3: book dot com. And I asked that you just join
Speaker 3: us on this journey of being disruptors.
Speaker 1: Absolutely include that in the show notes. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for spending some time with me today. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, doctor Joy.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Alyncia was able to join me for
Speaker 1: this conversation. Her insight in times like these is so important.
Speaker 1: To learn more about her, or to grab a copy
Speaker 1: of Flip the Tables, go to Therapy for Blackgirls dot
Speaker 1: com slash session four h two, and don't forget to
Speaker 1: text this episode to two of your girls right now
Speaker 1: and tell them to check it out. Did you know
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Speaker 1: the podcast. If you want to suggest movies or books
Speaker 1: for us to review, or even give thoughts around topics
Speaker 1: you'd like to hear discussed, drop us a message at
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Speaker 1: us know what's on your mind. We just might highlight
Speaker 1: it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists
Speaker 1: in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And to round out today's episode,
Speaker 1: I have some huge news for you. For the past
Speaker 1: five years, the Sister Circle has been our space to connect,
Speaker 1: grow and show up as our full sells. And now
Speaker 1: we're expanding that space to bring you even more of
Speaker 1: what you love. Drum roll please introducing the Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls community on Patreon, your space to be seen, heard,
Speaker 1: and understood in an even more connected way. So what's new?
Speaker 1: New content segments like so my Therapist Said, where we
Speaker 1: break down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals.
Speaker 1: Add free podcast listening because uninterrupted conversations just hit different
Speaker 1: TVG community chats where we unpack trending pop culture topics
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Speaker 1: you inside. This episode was produced by Alice Ellis, Indaychubu,
Speaker 1: and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Speaker 1: Take good care
Speaker 3: What