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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session four or two of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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Speaker 1: conversation afterword from our sponsors. It goes without saying that

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Speaker 1: the ninety two percent understood the assignment during the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four election, But what are we to make of

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Speaker 1: it when we still end up exactly where we are today,

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Speaker 1: struggling to make sense of our place in the world,

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Speaker 1: with leaders in legislation increasingly being utilized against us. You

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Speaker 1: can't deny the tables have turned, but how can you

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Speaker 1: resist joining me? Fresh off the release of her new book,

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Speaker 1: Flip the tables. The everyday disruptor's guide to finding courage

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Speaker 1: and making change is a Lindsia Johnson. She's the founder

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Speaker 1: of ten sixty three West broad, a consultancy and media

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Speaker 1: company that connects organizations to purpose driven solutions. Serving as

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Speaker 1: a political advisor and strategist for President Biden, VP Harris,

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Speaker 1: Senator Elizabeth Warren, and Planned Parenthood, where she created the

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Speaker 1: Stand with Black Women initiative. She's uniquely equipped to dissect

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Speaker 1: exactly how we got here and what we can do

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Speaker 1: about it. During our conversation, we explore what it means

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Speaker 1: to be a disruptor and how nuanced black women's roles

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Speaker 1: are as we prepare for a trying four years, from

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Speaker 1: DEI bands at the supermarket to understanding authenticity in a

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Speaker 1: political campaign. Alyncia is sharing it all. This conversation is

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Speaker 1: a continuation of our reflection on the past, present, in

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Speaker 1: future of Black girlhood and womanhood. In celebration of four

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Speaker 1: hundred episodes of Therapy for Black Girls. I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: for you to dig into this conversation. If something resonates

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Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us

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Speaker 1: on social media. Using the hashtag TVG in session. Here's

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Speaker 1: our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Lindcia.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so before we jump into the conversation, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to hear a little bit more about your background. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me a little bit about ten sixty three

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Speaker 1: with Broad and what got you into consulting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's funny because my background is political, and

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Speaker 3: there's always this like joke about how every person who's

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Speaker 3: in politics ends up being a political consultant.

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Speaker 2: But for me, it actually was just.

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Speaker 3: Kind of a natural next step to own some more

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Speaker 3: of my time and my space in my head. But

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Speaker 3: before I founded ten sixty three US BROAD, I actually

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Speaker 3: started my career in corporate communications at Geico and did

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Speaker 3: a lot of work around their internal work and then

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Speaker 3: some of their government relationships stuff.

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Speaker 2: I helped the communications around it, and then I.

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Speaker 3: Got what felt like the opportunity that propelled my entire career,

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Speaker 3: which was when I worked for President Obama's reelection campaign

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Speaker 3: in twenty twelve in Chicago. And that was such a

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Speaker 3: transformative experience, especially because I did a lot of work

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Speaker 3: with different surrogates from CBC members to your favorite entertainers,

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Speaker 3: understanding how messaging really works because of who the messenger is.

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Speaker 3: And then I went to Planning Parenthood for six years

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Speaker 3: their national office.

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Speaker 2: I had several different roles.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people may be familiar with

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Speaker 3: framework that I helped found there, the stand with black women.

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Speaker 3: People see those T shirts and bags everywhere, and so

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Speaker 3: I really spent a lot of time getting Planned Parenthood

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Speaker 3: in spaces where we could have honest conversations about what

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Speaker 3: reproductive freedom looked like for women who look like me,

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Speaker 3: for people who are not white, cis gender, heterosexual women,

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Speaker 3: and all of our intersections how that works. And so

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Speaker 3: from advocacy, entertainment politics was doing all of that there.

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Speaker 3: And then I went to work for singer Elizabeth Warren

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Speaker 3: and was her national director of public Engagement for her

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Speaker 3: presidential And then after that, I was like, what do

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Speaker 3: I do. It's the pandemic and I don't know if

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Speaker 3: I want to get on the hamster wheel of a

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Speaker 3: campaign the general election and Biden's campaign in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: I really like this, some of this like entertainment, cultural,

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Speaker 3: corporate stuff I'm doing to get these institutions to really

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Speaker 3: show up for not only their consumers, but literally like

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Speaker 3: explain what their values are. And so I became kind

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Speaker 3: of an accidental entrepreneur. I had my LLCA because it's

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Speaker 3: black women. We're always ready, right, And so I said, oh, okay, well,

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Speaker 3: I guess I'm consulting now, this is what I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: And that's how I started ten sixty three US Broad,

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Speaker 3: which is named after the street that my grandmother, my

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Speaker 3: late grandmother, the last address that she had, and so

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Speaker 3: that's what ten sixty three Wes Broad is. And then

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Speaker 3: under that umbrella, I also was a senior advisor to

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Speaker 3: President Biden's twenty twenty campaign when he was vice president,

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Speaker 3: and then fast forward twenty twenty four, also did some

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Speaker 3: work for Vice President Harris's campaign as well, and so

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Speaker 3: have done a lot of projects that that's a little

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Speaker 3: bit of my bio. Yeah, a lot. Love it.

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Speaker 1: So many different interesting but also intersecting kinds of areas

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Speaker 1: that you're really being operating in. So I'm really excited

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Speaker 1: to have this conversation with you because I'm really fascinated

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Speaker 1: by like the psychology of voting and like messaging, which

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you have a lot of expertise in

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Speaker 1: so can you say a little bit like a one

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Speaker 1: oh one when you're working on a campaign and like

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Speaker 1: serving as an advisor for a campaign, like what kinds

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Speaker 1: of things are you trying to think about in terms

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Speaker 1: of voting and getting your message to the people that

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Speaker 1: you hope to get to vote for you.

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Speaker 3: I love that question because I don't work for any

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Speaker 3: elected official. Right now, We're gonna have some real talk,

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Speaker 3: you know, because as a black political strategist and this work,

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Speaker 3: sometimes we also get frustrated that our ideas of reaching

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Speaker 3: voters isn't the one that the campaign manager decides to

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Speaker 3: approve and go forward with. I think for me, as

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Speaker 3: I'm looking to engage voters, I first want to build

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Speaker 3: trust with them, and that actually starts by listening. Sure,

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Speaker 3: there are policy positions that obviously have like the research

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Speaker 3: and the background and the understanding of knowing how a

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Speaker 3: community can actually advance towards equity, opportunity, justice, all of that.

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Speaker 3: But if you roll into a community that isn't ready

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Speaker 3: to embrace you without really understanding their concerns or how

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Speaker 3: they even show up around an issue, they're gonna put

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Speaker 3: you on mute, not even that they're gonna slam the

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Speaker 3: door in your face, right, And so the best part

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Speaker 3: of strategy is to do some research and do some polling,

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Speaker 3: and do some I actually prefer focus groups instead of polling.

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Speaker 2: People talk about polling a lot, but think about it.

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Speaker 3: I know these phone numbers that are calling me are

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Speaker 3: probably some polster, and I sometimes don't answer it. I'm

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Speaker 3: in the middle of this, So imagine other people who

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Speaker 3: you know, we talk about these spam text messages and

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Speaker 3: phone calls that people don't answer. You're not gathering them there,

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Speaker 3: but you can gather folks in focus groups, working with

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Speaker 3: community organizations and getting people around the table to listen

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Speaker 3: to them on how they're thinking about certain issues, what

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Speaker 3: they know about an election coming up. And then often

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Speaker 3: you find that the awareness and the literacy around government

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Speaker 3: and civics is very low in this country. Literacy is

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Speaker 3: low in this country, unfortunately, and so a lot of

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Speaker 3: times it's a matter of, Okay, how do I inform

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Speaker 3: them about not only election day, but let me step back,

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Speaker 3: what they're voting for and what this elected official not

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Speaker 3: just the president, but they're council members, school board member,

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Speaker 3: state's attorneys general, like what are these positions, what do

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Speaker 3: they mean? What does this ballot initiative mean? And those

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Speaker 3: are some of the things that I look for before

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Speaker 3: I even start crafting the message. And then I also

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Speaker 3: want to know who they listen to. There's a saying

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Speaker 3: I have of most of the time, it's not the message,

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Speaker 3: it's the messenger. And it's really hard to tell a

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Speaker 3: politician that they're not the best messenger for a lot

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Speaker 3: of communities. But I know my community, right, I know when, okay,

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Speaker 3: they've been talking about this random hairdresser that like everybody

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Speaker 3: listens to, or this person that everyone watches in this

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Speaker 3: television show, or this community voice. If they're actually going

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Speaker 3: to move people to action, you got to check your ego,

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Speaker 3: mister or ms politician and really get the messenger out

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Speaker 3: there that people already trust. And that is something that

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Speaker 3: I'm constantly looking for as well.

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Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about the battle to

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Speaker 1: kind of get the person that you're working for to

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Speaker 1: hear your side, right, Because in theory, they hire you

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Speaker 1: because you have this expertise with this community. But then

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Speaker 1: sometimes there is a difficulty with them listening. So what

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Speaker 1: kinds of things help you to kind of really argue

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Speaker 1: your point and kind of make them see your case.

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Speaker 3: It's in I don't know if it's forty eight Laws

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Speaker 3: of Power, but somewhere in like those lists of things

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Speaker 3: that you can do to win people's arguments.

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Speaker 2: I think for me, you learn.

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Speaker 3: To play the people's ego and their stress, right, you

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Speaker 3: know what makes them light up?

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Speaker 2: Right? And if I need to ask.

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Speaker 3: You to step back from being the public face of this,

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Speaker 3: what am I giving you on the other end to

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Speaker 3: occupy your time or also elevate your voice around this issue?

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Speaker 3: But maybe in a different setting. Right, There's always some

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Speaker 3: trade offs, and then there's the very honest and frank

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Speaker 3: conversation about what the community needs. And when you're working

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Speaker 3: for elected officials or advocacy organizations and their leaders, you

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Speaker 3: kind of remind them that the end goal is to

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Speaker 3: actually get the services or get the win for these communities.

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Speaker 3: And if we have the research and data to show,

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Speaker 3: or we even have direct conversations that have told us

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Speaker 3: this is what people need, you have to have that

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Speaker 3: tough conversation. But it takes a lot of courage and

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Speaker 3: shortness of yourself, which I write a little bit about

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Speaker 3: in my book With the Tables, and understanding that that's

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Speaker 3: going to be an uncomfortable conversation sometimes to tell someone

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Speaker 3: that they are not the best messenger. But we have

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Speaker 3: to have those uncomfortable conversations in order to get to

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Speaker 3: the win. And I would rather sit in my discomfort

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Speaker 3: with my boss or decision maker if that means that

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Speaker 3: the greater community in my community especially is going to

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Speaker 3: benefit from that. And so you also have to be

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Speaker 3: okay with getting uncomfortable. And I talked about it actually

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Speaker 3: a little bit in my book when I worked for

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren and when I was at Playparenthoad when Cecil

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Speaker 3: Richards got rest her soul.

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Speaker 2: You know, I worked for her too.

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Speaker 3: At Plain Parenthead, we had very frank and difficult conversations

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Speaker 3: about race. And you know, I have to tell two

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Speaker 3: white women at times, you're not the best messenger here,

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Speaker 3: or we should have a woman of color making this

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Speaker 3: decision instead, and thankfully they are white women that listened.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you have to be comfortable with being

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Speaker 3: uncomfortable in those courageous conversations.

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Speaker 1: So I think that we find ourselves that are very

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what the best adjective to use

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Speaker 1: about where we find ourselves in this in history, as

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Speaker 1: Black women in particular. And so when we think about

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Speaker 1: VP Harris's run recently, what do you think her campaign

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Speaker 1: and just who she was represents for Black women both

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Speaker 1: politically and beyond.

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Speaker 3: I have so many thoughts on that question, but the

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Speaker 3: one that really comes to mind is there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of reasons our culture may not have been ready

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Speaker 3: for her because she not only represented a black woman,

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Speaker 3: or she is a black woman who is extremely qualified,

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Speaker 3: she's also a black woman who shows all the side

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Speaker 3: of herself, right, the fact that people were attacking her

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Speaker 3: for laughing, or that she cooks and that she dances,

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Speaker 3: and those are actually amazing qualities. And the reality is

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Speaker 3: our society doesn't want women, doesn't want people of color,

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Speaker 3: and that definitely doesn't want Black women to be multifaceted.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: They tell us that you can't be taken serious if

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Speaker 3: you have all these other parts of you, and they

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Speaker 3: make us hide them, right, they make us conform and

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Speaker 3: hide all parts of ourselves. But she didn't do that,

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Speaker 3: and I think that was very disruptive and something that

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Speaker 3: I feel, and I've heard from a lot of black

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Speaker 3: women have identified with, and I've heard from non black women,

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Speaker 3: they've identified with her on that part too. The hard

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Speaker 3: part for me and I actually asked people in the

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Speaker 3: party for years since she became the President Biden's vice

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Speaker 3: president actually when he selected her as his vice president's

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Speaker 3: running mate.

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Speaker 2: Is this party.

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Speaker 3: Fully ready to support and protect a black woman in

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Speaker 3: this position?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: We saw the attacks on President Obama, we saw the

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Speaker 3: attacks on Secretary Clinton?

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Speaker 2: Are you ready for that intersection?

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Speaker 3: Do we have the apparatus that is going toe to

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Speaker 3: toe with these outlets these concernsvative right wing you know,

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Speaker 3: creators and influencers that have these platforms, like we have

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Speaker 3: to really build a protective apparatus for a black woman

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Speaker 3: in this position. And the reflection of that is so

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Speaker 3: many of us, as black women have been in these positions,

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Speaker 3: these very visible positions. They've propped us up as leaders,

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Speaker 3: but then no one is ready to actually have the

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Speaker 3: difficult conversations of ensuring that there's protection there, right, And

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Speaker 3: some of that is also ensuring that the white people

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Speaker 3: who say that they support us are checking their own biases, right,

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Speaker 3: are okay with being having to answer to a black woman?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Those microaggressions that come up, And so I don't believe

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Speaker 3: that the party beyond the Democratic Party, our society, our

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Speaker 3: culture has fully embraced that just yet. But I do

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Speaker 3: think that her candidacy has disrupted the notion of what

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Speaker 3: a black woman is supposed to be, and it has

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Speaker 3: given us so much hope.

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Speaker 2: And I believe that all of us are proud of her.

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Speaker 3: And we don't blame what happened on the election on her.

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Speaker 3: I don't blame it on her. I mean was billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: I think there were other decision makers. I don't blame

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Speaker 3: it on her.

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Speaker 1: And how do you feel like the results of the election,

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Speaker 1: How did that impact you both personally and professionally coming

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Speaker 1: into twenty twenty five? I imagine you know you had maybe

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Speaker 1: different plans if the election, if she had been elected.

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Speaker 1: How did that shape and impact you for twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five and beyond?

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Speaker 3: Oh all right, doctor Joy, I am now thinking about

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Speaker 3: the night election. I was at Howard and we were

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Speaker 3: so excited, and then the returns weren't looking the way

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Speaker 3: that we wanted them to, and I started to get

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Speaker 3: the same feeling I had in twenty sixteen at the

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Speaker 3: job at Center in New York, watching Hillary Clinton's returns

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Speaker 3: and we were hopeful. We were so hopeful. We all

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Speaker 3: then went out to the lawn. We were just we

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Speaker 3: were very, very hopeful. But it was a long drive home.

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Speaker 3: Even though from my house to Howard is eighteen minutes,

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Speaker 3: I felt like an hour. And I was sad, and

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Speaker 3: I could not get out of bed for two days.

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Speaker 3: Literally could not get out of bed for two days.

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Speaker 3: I turned off the news, even though I'm on cable

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Speaker 3: news often, I turned off the news. I cried. I

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Speaker 3: just if I got out of my bed, I was

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Speaker 3: on the couch, but otherwise I hadn't seen sunlight or anything.

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Speaker 3: And I finally pulled myself together that Thursday, and I

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Speaker 3: went for a long walk in my neighborhood, and I

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Speaker 3: had this very clear feeling, or very clear message from

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Speaker 3: God that it is time to take care of yourself

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Speaker 3: as a black woman. You have taken care of everyone

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Speaker 3: else as black women. The ninety two percent has taken

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Speaker 3: care of everyone else and told people what is true

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Speaker 3: and told people the path forward, and no one continues

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Speaker 3: to listen. And so you were going to be the

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Speaker 3: only person that saves yourself. And I'd already been in

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Speaker 3: this mindset of taking care of myself above all, because

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Speaker 3: in order for me to do this good work, in

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Speaker 3: order for me to show up for my friends and

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Speaker 3: family and loved ones.

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Speaker 2: I have to be whole. But there was a very

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Speaker 2: clear oh no, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 3: This resistance requires your rest, It requires your health, It

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Speaker 3: requires you to get your finances in order, it requires

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Speaker 3: for you to be so taken care of that you

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Speaker 3: are able to take care of other people. And then professionally,

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Speaker 3: you know, I have a book coming out in March,

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Speaker 3: so there were a lot of conversations people were having.

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Speaker 2: Had she one that I was like, Mmm.

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Speaker 3: I want to put this book out in the world

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Speaker 3: because I think it really frames how we can be

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Speaker 3: disruptors of our own life, but then also in the

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Speaker 3: world around us.

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Speaker 2: That gets us to a place where we.

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Speaker 3: Are actually voting around our values, that we are showing

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Speaker 3: up around our values, and we wouldn't have outcomes in

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Speaker 3: the way that we did. And so professionally, to be honest,

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Speaker 3: things haven't changed too much, except for I do a

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Speaker 3: lot of political commentary and I ended up in October

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Speaker 3: disclosing my sexual assault story on national television on CNN,

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Speaker 3: and it was in the heat of an argument around

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump's latest accuser and the hundreds of survivors who

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Speaker 3: had endorsed Vice President Harris and I just ended up

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Speaker 3: disclosing that I too, am a survivor.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't realize.

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Speaker 3: Until I got home, like the magnitude of that on

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Speaker 3: myself personally. Right I was getting all these thank you notes.

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Speaker 3: The producers in my ears were asking if I was okay.

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Speaker 3: One of the camera guys when I walked out the

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Speaker 3: studio he said, thank you for my sister, and I

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Speaker 3: was in this adrenaline high. But by the time I

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Speaker 3: got home, I felt the emotional weight of that, and

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Speaker 3: I felt that this space isn't as safe for me

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Speaker 3: as it used to be, this space of political commentary

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Speaker 3: that you know, ratings come from entertainment. You need people

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Speaker 3: to be entertained to stay in television, to stay tuned in.

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Speaker 3: And I had to really think about what does that

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Speaker 3: look like for me? So I'll still do it, but

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Speaker 3: am I going to do it as much as I

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Speaker 3: did before.

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Speaker 2: And be in this heightened sense of like it.

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Speaker 3: Felt like fight or flight all the time, like I'm

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Speaker 3: fighting for my life. And to be honest, Doctor Joey,

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Speaker 3: I was by myself. It was Wooplitzer, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know if he identifies as a man of color, but

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Speaker 3: he was a man who was there representing the Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump campaign. There was another man reporter, and I was

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Speaker 3: there by myself, by myself. Nobody stepped in to acknowledge

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Speaker 3: what I said. No one stepped in and said, hey,

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Speaker 3: this argument is taken a term, and I said, I'm

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Speaker 3: not putting myself in that position ever again. So I

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Speaker 3: am reimagining the conversations that I want to have with

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Speaker 3: the public about our values, how we show up, because

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Speaker 3: politics is just an extension of our values, right, and

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Speaker 3: so how do we have those conversations. And that's something

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Speaker 3: that I am looking at and this current climate because again,

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Speaker 3: no one's coming to save black women, So I have

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Speaker 3: to think about myself, my own health, my own spiritual protection,

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Speaker 3: my own physical protection.

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Speaker 2: And so those are some of the things that I

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Speaker 2: thought about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, you know,

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Speaker 1: and Listina, you have so beautifully described I think what

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Speaker 1: has felt like a collective experience for black women, Like

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Speaker 1: it feels like many of us arrived at that same

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Speaker 1: place and there was no zoom meeting that we got

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Speaker 1: on right, like It just does feel like something switched

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Speaker 1: for a lot of Black women after the election result

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Speaker 1: in this ninety two percent has almost become this like

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Speaker 1: a rallying in some ways, And I love to hear

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Speaker 1: kind of your thoughts about, like how do we actually

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Speaker 1: make that useful and impactful?

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Speaker 2: Well, what do you think, like what.

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Speaker 1: Are you making of this collective experience of black women

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Speaker 1: feeling a need to step back? Like I really got

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Speaker 1: to prior reprioritize myself so that I can kind of

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Speaker 1: be ready to resist.

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Speaker 3: It literally was like the ninety two percent we were

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Speaker 3: all saying the same thing. It's like our souls had

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Speaker 3: a meeting, right, or it was like our ancestors gave us

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Speaker 3: the language, right. And I think it kind of started.

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Speaker 3: It probably started well before this, but I think the

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Speaker 3: outcome of the twenty sixteen election, there was a very

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Speaker 3: clear black women we good like y'all wanted to come

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Speaker 3: talk to us.

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Speaker 2: We know what we're doing, we see the future.

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Speaker 3: We will vote in ways and for people that we

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Speaker 3: necessarily may not love, but we know how the rest

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Speaker 3: of y'all in America will show up. So we need

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Speaker 3: to figure out the best way to reduce harm, right,

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Speaker 3: and I love that collective. I'm tapping out, And I

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Speaker 3: talked to a lot of girlfriends who are still directly

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Speaker 3: in political movements and they're like, well, we can't tap out,

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Speaker 3: and I said, but I can step back and take

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Speaker 3: care of myself, because you know, Audrey Lauren told us

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Speaker 3: about self care.

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Speaker 2: It is literally political warfare, but it is important. Right.

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Speaker 3: There's a reason that the book Rest Is Resistance is

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Speaker 3: a New York Times bestseller because there is this reality

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Speaker 3: that we are worthy of taking care of ourselves for

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Speaker 3: not to labor more, but just to take care of ourselves,

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Speaker 3: like that is our divine right to rest, to have joy.

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Speaker 3: And at the same time, it is such resistance under

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Speaker 3: capitalism to say I'm tapping out right, I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to continue to labor myself and the structure that doesn't

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Speaker 3: actually work for me, that actually does more.

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Speaker 2: Harm to me.

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Speaker 3: And so most of the trends I did see, there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of black women who said, I'm not

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Speaker 3: tapping in at all, and I was like, but as

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Speaker 3: black women, we kind of just always do like we'll

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Speaker 3: show back up, right, And I do believe that it's

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Speaker 3: started the important courageous conversation for us to say publicly

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Speaker 3: that we are going to take care of ourselves first

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Speaker 3: because no one else will. And then I feel like

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Speaker 3: it reminded us of how important community is.

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Speaker 2: It reminded us.

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Speaker 3: Of how important it is to get offline. It reminded

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Speaker 3: us of how important it is to maybe dive a

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Speaker 3: little bit deeper in our connections with other black women,

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Speaker 3: right to expand our circle of black women. Most of

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Speaker 3: my closest girlfriends are black women. But what are the

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Speaker 3: conversations that I'm having with them? Are we bringing more

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Speaker 3: people to the table, and how are we talking about

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Speaker 3: protection and navigating the way forward. I also believe that

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Speaker 3: that was an opportunity for us to realize that we

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Speaker 3: have to go offline. One go offline to protect ourselves

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00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: and our souls and recharge. But also we can't talk

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Speaker 3: about the strategy in public all the time. I mean,

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Speaker 3: now we're seeing that with the whole response to particularly Target,

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Speaker 3: Target and their di it's like black women are having

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Speaker 3: We've been knocked off of our equilibrium a little bit

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Speaker 3: because we have such a relationship with Target, and then

441
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 3: they have so many black women brands, And this conversation

442
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: has been interesting to follow. But the ninety two percent

443
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 3: have said, over history, we have carried this country. We

444
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: have literally birth this nation, even if we didn't want to,

445
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: we have literally given birth to this nation. And we

446
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 3: know america sins, and we know that at the intersection

447
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 3: of all of our identities, the harm will be the

448
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: hardest on us, and so we understand how to reduce harm.

449
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 3: So now we have to go into community and we

450
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: have to find that and do it in ways that

451
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: are underground and offline.

452
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: So, as someone with a background in corporate communications, I

453
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: can imagine that all kinds of light bulbs have been

454
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: going on for you around. It's specifically right because tiet

455
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: is the most recent example of this, like all of

456
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: these companies coming out talking about rolling back DEI and

457
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: all of those things. How can you help us to

458
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: make sense of it?

459
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: You said it so right, doctor Joe Target got us

460
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: fight each other. And also it's like mind boggling because

461
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: so often we yell, well, you should listen to a

462
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: black business owner, You should listen to the black person

463
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 3: who's going to be harmed the most. And then you

464
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: have all these black women, particularly black women brands, their

465
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 3: CEOs and founders are talking about the nuance here, and

466
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: folks are like, no, no, no, no, no, that's a cop oule.

467
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: You're trying to save a corporation. My analysis here, given

468
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 3: my corporate background, given the fact that I actually do still.

469
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: Work with corporations, is that we.

470
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: Clearly have them been paying attention to their values. Folks

471
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 3: think that what I have gathered in the online conversation.

472
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 3: I know that this is not what most people mean.

473
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 3: But we're reducing DEI to just a response to George

474
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 3: Floyd's murder in twenty twenty. DEI has been around.

475
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: Well before then.

476
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 3: We know that DEI has also never really been invested

477
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 3: in in the way that it should be, right like

478
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 3: it was always the let me give this black person

479
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 3: this title.

480
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: They can go do some panels and then.

481
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: They'll be happy and we don't actually have to really

482
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 3: do this inclusion work. And there were ways too, and

483
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 3: not saying that all companies have been that way, but

484
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: there are some companies who you could tell quickly.

485
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 2: That they didn't care about it.

486
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: They just wanted to do stuff on the surface to

487
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: do their annual report their stakeholders, their shareholders report to

488
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: say that they met these numbers. And so we actually

489
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 3: have to be better at understanding the values of these companies, right,

490
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: and if they have been able to maneuver through a

491
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 3: society and culture that's changing and kept up with the times,

492
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: the reality is DEI well as they're using it is.

493
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: To be honest, I think.

494
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 3: It's just these white conservatives way of getting away with

495
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 3: not saying the N word with a hard er They

496
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: are gaslighting us, right, like these are dog whistles. What

497
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: they are really talking about is black people. But we

498
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: know that a lot of DEI practices, whether in corporations

499
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 3: or even if you think about affirmative action benefit of

500
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 3: white women, right, benefits other people who are not white men.

501
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: And so there's going to be a rude awakening here.

502
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: I think we'll see companies double down, some get innovative

503
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 3: in the way that they talk about inclusion, and then

504
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: we'll see companies show their true colors. Like I was

505
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: really kind of surprised about the energy around Target when

506
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 3: I'm like, we should have been rallying against Walmart like

507
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 3: a decade ago. Again, as someone who has family who

508
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: has to rely on Walmart because that's literally the only

509
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: big box store where they live, even though they wouldn't

510
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 3: want to but like we got to talk about the

511
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: harms that some of these other corporations have done, and

512
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 3: so it was interesting to see that fight.

513
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: And I said a few things that.

514
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 3: Just uploaded a few statements on social media, But I

515
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 3: really want people in this moment, with all of the

516
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: things that are coming from Donald Trump, take a breath, literally,

517
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 3: like go outside, see some sun, touch some grass, take

518
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 3: a breath and realize we don't have to respond to everything.

519
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: That's a lesson that our black mamas gave us. You

520
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: don't have to respond to everything, because a tool of

521
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 3: the oppressor is to distract us and overwhelm us. And

522
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: that is literally what they are doing.

523
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: Literally.

524
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: A one of the authors of Project twenty twenty five

525
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 3: says that they want to inflict trauma, that they do

526
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: want this to be a traumatic experience. So we have

527
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: to protect how we're going to show up. And I

528
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: say this in the book, but I also say this

529
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: to other people. Pick a couple of issues that you

530
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: care about and focus on those, but do not get

531
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: caught up in a tizzy about every little thing that

532
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: Donald Trump says, because it is going to be horrific

533
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: and that anxiety. You know better than I do what

534
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: anxiety does to us and stressed us to us. It

535
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: throws us off of the course to be focused on

536
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: what we can do right right.

537
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: So you know your book is certainly relevant in this

538
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: political moment, but you started writing the book even before

539
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: this most current election. What were you seeing in observing

540
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: that made you feel like you needed to write this

541
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: guide post to how we can flip the tables.

542
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: This is also part of why I work for myself,

543
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: so I can say whatever. And also I'm talking to

544
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: black women some with my sisters. This is the same stays.

545
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: So there were a couple of things. One, I love

546
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: me some Jesus, my dad's a pastor, and Jesus flipping

547
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: over tables in the temple like that crump Jesus, I

548
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: love him like that is not the benevolent white man

549
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: with blonde hair and blue wives that they like to

550
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: tell us who he is. Now, I like that man

551
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: who cares about the least of these. And so there's

552
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: that spirituality, right, spiritual practice.

553
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: And then at the beginning of the pandemic, this is

554
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: where the concept came from.

555
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: In between working for Senator Warren taking some time off,

556
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: but I was at home with my family and then

557
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: starting working, I was just like, God, what is it

558
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 3: that I am trying to do?

559
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: Why haven't I gotten out of my own way?

560
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: And yes, I've done a lot of amazing things, but

561
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: thirty two at the time, I had done a lot

562
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: of amazing things, but I still felt as though I

563
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: wasn't going after my dreams for my life. And then

564
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: I realized the connection to me being courageously myself is

565
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 3: connected to my purpose to show up and disrupt in

566
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: my community. And so I had to disrupt myself as

567
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: someone who was diagnosed with OCD at fifteen years old,

568
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: and I had had a couple of panic attacks, one

569
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: that led me into a very intensive outpatient therapy one

570
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: summer for like.

571
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 2: Over a month.

572
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 3: I had to step back and say, wait a minute.

573
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: I've been in therapy, I've got all these tools. Maybe

574
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: I gotta start laning on myself a little bit more.

575
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: Maybe I need to.

576
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: And this is not you know, pushing or seeing that

577
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: we don't need that support, because I do believe you

578
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: constantly need that support. But at some point I have

579
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 3: to actually take responsibility for the actions. And I can't

580
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 3: sit here and say, oh, I can't wait till I

581
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: talk to my therapist next week. Well, lindsay you teage

582
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: face the mirror and actually do the thing that you

583
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: all have been talking about for the past year, Like

584
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: you need to do the thing, and it's hard and

585
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable, but you can do it.

586
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: And so once I realized.

587
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: That I could get out of my own way, then

588
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: I realized I needed a bold vision for.

589
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: Who I could be.

590
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: When I started my consultancy, people wanted me to build

591
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: a big agency, and I felt that pressure.

592
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: Right.

593
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: I immediately thought that I had to beat on this

594
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 3: hamster wheel again. And I was like, that's actually not

595
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: what I want to do. I would like to have

596
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 3: a certain lifestyle, and I want to lean in my creativity,

597
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: and I want to do all of these other things.

598
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: And then people would say that I sometimes dress too

599
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 3: flashy or a certain way that didn't look like a

600
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: political black woman, And I said.

601
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: But there's room for all of that. So how can

602
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: I help us disrupt our vision?

603
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: And then all of that courage and vulnerability can lead

604
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: us to being who God has designed us to be,

605
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: to disrupt the communities around us in ways that don't

606
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: require people to quit their jobs and become activists or

607
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: elected officials. You can disrupt right where you are, but

608
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: that starts with healing yourself. And I had to really

609
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 3: heal some things in my life from some childhood trauma,

610
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: through some relationships and seeing those patterns in order to

611
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: show up better in my community. And then it also

612
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: made me realize that so many of the people that

613
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: I've worked with in politics are very broken people and

614
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: unhealed people, and they inflict so much harm on one another.

615
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: And they'll say, oh, well, you know, I'm doing this

616
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: for the good of the world. I don't have time

617
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 3: to take care of myself.

618
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: I'm doing this for the good of the world.

619
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: Right, there's this self righteous like ego tied to it,

620
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 3: so they never really heal themselves, and then so they

621
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: continue to cause harm on other people who are trying

622
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: to do good in the world.

623
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: And I was just tired of that, of seeing so

624
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: many people, like all of us.

625
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: Are broken, but yet we're trying to fix the problems

626
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 3: in the world, but we can't even treat each other well.

627
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: And so that is the ethos of how Flip the

628
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: Tables came about.

629
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: I needed the book, and as.

630
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: I started writing it, it felt just very Divine God

631
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: was like, this works whether Vice President Harrisons or not.

632
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: This especially works given them where we are right now.

633
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 3: And it gives people the courage to really heal themselves

634
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 3: and understand that the work that we have to do

635
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: it to lifetime work. I've always understood that, but I

636
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 3: think people get very sycklical. They're like, oh, this election

637
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: cycle and this president is supposed to change everything. None

638
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: of these politicians are actually going to save us. But

639
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: how can you build yourself up to be a disruptor

640
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life and what that looks like.

641
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: And sometimes it is taking a little bit of break.

642
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: Like I took a little bit of the break one

643
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: time and was vacation in all year and was hanging

644
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: out and doing less political and advocacy work. And that's

645
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: okay because it helped me to come back to where

646
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: I am. And So that's the eth a Fop The Tables.

647
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: It's the book that I needed. I just finished the

648
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: audiobook last week and I was crying as I was

649
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: reading it and realizing that, Wow, you really do have

650
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 3: these tools for yourself, that this is really what a

651
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: Wancia needed at thirty years old. And the career transition

652
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 3: and even now when I'm questioning myself about certain things.

653
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: You know, there really is something about reading your audiobook

654
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: that is such an emotional experience. I had that too,

655
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: and so many friends like read the audiobook and it's like,

656
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: I guess hearing your words aloud and like imagining other

657
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 1: people here like really makes it very real.

658
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 2: I think it did.

659
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: I mean, doctor Joy, I was crying through some of

660
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: the stories I was reading, and I'm like, but I

661
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: wrote it.

662
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: I've worked through it.

663
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm on the other side, but like, it is beautiful, right,

664
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 3: And I hope the book gives people the courage to

665
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: embrace the going through that discomfort, Like it's okay that

666
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: we're messy and complicated and I really had to you

667
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 3: will appreciate us that as a virgo in four houses,

668
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 3: an only child, black women conditioned by this world. Of course,

669
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 3: I've been hard on myself, but I have learned to

670
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 3: really like accept myself for who I am, and I

671
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: hope this book gives people that permission to accept themselves

672
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: and it meets them right where they are.

673
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: So in the book, you identify three critical areas that

674
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: you think are important for disruption self vision and community.

675
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: Can you say a little bit more about how those

676
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: all come together to disrupt Yeah.

677
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 3: So, as I was talking about understanding really my purpose

678
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 3: and role in the world, I just realized that there

679
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 3: were some things I hadn't fully worked through, and particularly

680
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: in relationships, and not just romantic relationships, but like friendships,

681
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: and also thinking about, like, God, why am I self

682
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: sabotaging on my goals? My brain is wired differently with

683
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: and anxiety, and also there's some other things going on

684
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: here that are hindering me from moving forward, and like

685
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: why do I keep coming back to certain things? And

686
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 3: the reality is the longer that I am running away

687
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: from what it is that I am called to do,

688
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 3: the further I am from showing up in my community

689
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: the way I'm supposed to show up and facing ourselves.

690
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 3: What I also realize on all my work, facing myself

691
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 3: has been the hardest thing ever. I can stand up

692
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 3: in front of international stages on national television and talk

693
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 3: about how the world's supposed to be, but you want

694
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: me to be vulnerable about my feelings, but about what.

695
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: I've been through.

696
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 3: That's hard, but it's necessary and I believe that that

697
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 3: is the critical part of it. Because again I don't

698
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 3: want to send inflicting more harm on other people, and

699
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 3: I want all of us to be shining so brightly

700
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: in our lights. We are only able to light everyone else, right,

701
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 3: We are only able to light the path behind us

702
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: in front of us. And so that is why we

703
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 3: started with disruption of self. So that's the healing of yourself,

704
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 3: the unyucking some things and facing some things. They also

705
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 3: like alleviating that pressure that we put on ourselves, and

706
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: then disruption of vision. You know, we often talk, particularly

707
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 3: in movement spaces, there's always this conversation of like radical imagination.

708
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: You have to be able to envision something before you

709
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: can even go towards it. And I believe in dreaming

710
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 3: and all of that, but I had to really think

711
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: about dismantling the positions that people put us in as

712
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: black women, as professional black women.

713
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: And who we are in society.

714
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: And some of it is career advice, but it gets

715
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: to you know, it starts with death to the boss,

716
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: the like having a very real conversation with one of

717
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: my girlfriends of like I'm tired of achieving, I'm done,

718
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 3: Like how can I like rest more and have joy?

719
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: And you know, how that's been related to suicide rates

720
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: and all of these things, and how being booked and busy.

721
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: Everybody wanted to be booked and busy. What was that saying?

722
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 3: You know, people wanted to catch flights and not feelings.

723
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, actually, I want to catch all

724
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: these feelings. I want to feel those. And you know what,

725
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: if I don't make Delta Diamond status again next year,

726
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: that's fine, Like that is actually fine. And I then

727
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 3: went through this chapter of being okay with being good

728
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 3: enough in some areas of life.

729
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: I want to be great at everything.

730
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: I can actually be horrible at certain things, right, those

731
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 3: things are okay, and like getting back to our childhood,

732
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 3: and that again gives us the courage to be who

733
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 3: we're supposed to be and also allows for us to

734
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: imagine something different, expand the table. And then once we've

735
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 3: just developed all of this courage, then of course we

736
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: can disrupt our community. Of course we can show up

737
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 3: in ways and understanding how we can spend our privilege.

738
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 3: And yes, we use that often to talk to white

739
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: people about spending their white privilege, and white women especially,

740
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 3: but all of us, depending on our settings, we have

741
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 3: some sort of privilege and we can use that for good.

742
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: There's an importance in exploring and expanding our capacity for

743
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 3: empathy and humanity. There's importance in our stories.

744
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: Right.

745
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: I shared how I told my story on CNN and

746
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: the amount of people that that helped, right, Like why

747
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: it's so important for the ava juveneurs to tell certain stories.

748
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 3: Storytelling is so important, whether it's to one person or

749
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 3: one million people. And it also reminds us that we

750
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: have to just be the salt and be the light

751
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 3: in the world, as we are commanded in the Good Book.

752
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: And so I thought that journey is how it's supposed

753
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: to be. So often we start in the community, but

754
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: I can't show up in community well if I'm not well.

755
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, So, Alyssia, it

756
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: is very clear that you have been very committed to therapy,

757
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: like you are talking as you are definitely like on

758
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: the other side of like a lot of these things

759
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: that you have been challenged by. But I can't imagine

760
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: that it was easy to get there, and as a

761
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I know it was. So what would

762
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: you say to maybe other sisters who find themselves kind

763
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: of feeling like okay, achievement is what is equal to

764
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: worthiness and I'm not good enough or I'm not doing

765
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: enough to kind of be in some of these spaces.

766
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great question, and it makes me think

767
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: about I also wrote a little bit about in the book. So,

768
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: up until I moved back to the DC area, I

769
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: never had a therapist who look like me. But I

770
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: knew I needed a black woman therapist who could just

771
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: understand the things that we deal with uniquely in the

772
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 3: United States. And that really helped me understand that my

773
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: hyper independence was a trauma response. The trauma response that

774
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 3: sometimes and I hear a lot of people say that,

775
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 3: but I want us to remind ourselves that the trauma

776
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: that we are experiencing, Yes we have personal stories, but

777
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 3: we are experiencing systemic trauma as well as a people,

778
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: and so like, there's only but so much that we

779
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 3: can solve for it ourselves, right, But the things that

780
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: are in our control we have to tend to. And

781
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 3: I had a therapist just asking me and actually found

782
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 3: her on your website. She would remind me that every

783
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: time something was really hard or something in my personal

784
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: life wasn't working out, I was going to achieve something else,

785
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, I actually really don't want

786
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: to get another degree, although I do want to go

787
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 3: study religion just for my own personal edification, like I

788
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 3: want to go study more, right, but I don't need

789
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: to achieve anything else. And it made me really sit

790
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: with myself, and it made me realize that I actually

791
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 3: don't know how to connect with my emotions and the

792
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,959
Speaker 3: way that I would want to. I can theorize about

793
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: my emotions a lot, but now I need to pay

794
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: attention to how my body's feeling and being mindful and

795
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: really focusing on that. And it really challenged me in

796
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 3: this iteration of where I'm at right now that black

797
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 3: women we do not have to achieve anything else. And

798
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: I was sitting in my apartment one time. The consultancy

799
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: was doing really well. You know, I was traveling, I

800
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 3: could buy things that I wanted, I was dating, like

801
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: I felt like things were aligned. But I actually was

802
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 3: sitting there and I was like, are you really happy?

803
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: Like are you content? What else do you need? And

804
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: I had to answer that question and interrogate where it

805
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 3: came from.

806
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: And saying no.

807
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 3: To people who are offering opportunities was really hard because

808
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 3: the people why you'd be so good at it? Yeah,

809
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: of course I'd be so good at it. But who

810
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 3: do I to prove myself to? Because if I continue

811
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: to achieve, what do they say, new levels, new devils, like,

812
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 3: it's still not a safe space for me. And so

813
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: what am I running from? And why am I running

814
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 3: from that? Right? And why do I feel as though

815
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: it's as a black woman. I can't say I want

816
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 3: love as a black woman. I can't say that I

817
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: want to not have to work forty hours a week

818
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: as a black woman. I can't say why do I

819
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: feel like I can't do all of that? Yeah, that's

820
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: because of trauma, and that's the space that I had

821
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 3: to get to. And now I'm on this journey of Okay,

822
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 3: you don't feel your emotions in the way that other

823
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: people do. I know some of that's because I'm a

824
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 3: virgo and I'm always gonna sit here and like think

825
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: about my emotions and not be super excited or not

826
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: be super sad. But actually I want to sit with

827
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 3: this and if I start crying, I'm gonna sit with

828
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: these tears, let them come.

829
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: Right, And we've never.

830
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: Been given that opportunity, right, I'm very sensitive to that, like,

831
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 3: this is very new for us. Our mothers didn't have

832
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 3: that opportunity, right, Our grandmothers definitely didn't have that. And

833
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 3: so that's also allowed for me to have grace with

834
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: my mom and the other matriarchs in my family, my

835
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: great aunts as we talk through things that I you know,

836
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: am learning, and you have grace with your family for

837
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 3: the decisions that they made, because black families make decisions

838
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 3: that you know.

839
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 2: A lot of us will be talking about online.

840
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: This was some trauma in my childhood, but I view

841
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 3: it from a lens of they are trying to protect

842
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 3: us from the trauma of the world.

843
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: Right, respectability was protection.

844
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 3: Right, the decisions that they made were protection, and so

845
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: having that grace, like having that capacity for that has

846
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: been really helpful too. And being an entrepreneur in control

847
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 3: of my schedule so that I have the time in

848
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: space is extremely important. And so black women we have

849
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 3: to create this time and space for ourselves and we

850
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: can't fill it with just any and everything achieving anything else, Like,

851
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 3: we have got to sit with ourselves and it's okay

852
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: that we discover that I've been harmed, Right, it is unfair,

853
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 3: and don't immediately get over it. You don't have to

854
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: get over it, right, And so that gentleness with myself

855
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 3: has been really important, and I hope other black women,

856
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: I know through your podcast black women are feeling as

857
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: though they can be free and that too and don't

858
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 3: have to achieve as much more.

859
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So am Askia, what would you say, like,

860
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: what does this eruption look like when you are working

861
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: as a part of a larger system? Right? So, I

862
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: think there is some privilege of with entrepreneurship that you

863
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: can kind of make your own schedule and take the

864
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: clients you want or don't. But a lot of people

865
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: are working inside of larger corporate structures or government structures.

866
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: What can disruption look like in those spaces?

867
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. And I had to really

868
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 3: reflect on what did it look like when you were

869
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 3: in these rooms and you may have been the youngest

870
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 3: person there, the only black person there, the only woman there.

871
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 3: And some of that is asking questions and coming from

872
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 3: a place with some grace, but asking questions that provoke

873
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 3: other people to have to answer some of that too,

874
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: as they are dismantling DEI and coming after employee resource

875
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: groups which have been amazing spaces for employees to just

876
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 3: advocate for their needs, have to figure out how to

877
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 3: build community with one another so that you can make

878
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 3: some demands and ask of leadership, but their strengthen members. Right.

879
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: There's also I say this all the time. We are

880
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 3: hired for our job descriptions. So often we again, I've

881
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 3: gotten caught up there. So often we get sold by

882
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: the oh, we could see you growing here, we could

883
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 3: see you doing X, Y and Z.

884
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: We love to embrace your creativity. At the end of

885
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: the day, they've.

886
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: Hired you for your job description, and to be honest,

887
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 3: it's okay to stick to that job description, and that

888
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: will disrupt the notion that, oh, the black people, we

889
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 3: can underpay them, keep them at a certain level, and

890
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 3: they're going to go above and beyond. Yes, it is

891
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 3: appropriate to go further at times, obviously when you're trying

892
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: to get promoted or whatever it may be. But sometimes

893
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 3: you literally have to say, hey, I get off a

894
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 3: five PM I'm leaving today, and that will make them

895
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 3: reorient their minds of like, wait a minute, this person

896
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 3: is extremely valuable or.

897
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 2: You know what, we had.

898
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 3: Different expectations of them and maybe this isn't the right role,

899
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 3: and maybe we should shift things for them, right, or

900
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 3: maybe we should actually look at the reason that we

901
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 3: hired these people or hired someone and give them the

902
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: opportunity and the support that they need to be successful

903
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 3: where they are right. There have been tons of times

904
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 3: where I didn't feel supported and asked to do five

905
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: hundred things. Why Sally was asked to only do ten things?

906
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: But yet Sally was a director and I wasn't even

907
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: an assistant director, right, And so being in these positions

908
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 3: to courageously share these truths right to bring truth to

909
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 3: light are really important. I am a big believer in

910
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: labor unions. If you are able to join a union,

911
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 3: the labor movement is the reason that we have actual

912
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 3: laws to protect us as workers.

913
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: Now.

914
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 3: Granted, they need to be updated from the wages, like

915
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 3: all of them need to be updated, but there is

916
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 3: like a resurgence of the labor movement. And the other

917
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 3: thing too, I would advise people, and this is what

918
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 3: I did when I worked at I actually hated the

919
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: job and I was ready to get into politics. I

920
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 3: spent time every single day thinking about, Okay, what skills

921
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 3: set is transferable to the ones that I want and

922
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 3: to the jobs that I want, and I had to

923
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: carve out time for myself to actually go find those

924
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 3: other opportunities. So often we get in this position of

925
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 3: I've been here for ten years and I owe it

926
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: to this company. We don't owe anything to these corporations,

927
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 3: and we have to have that mindset. The other thing too, is,

928
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure there are a lot of women

929
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 3: that are listening who are in positions of leadership and

930
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 3: who are actually the ones calling the meetings. Think about

931
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: who's at the table at that meeting, or think about

932
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: when you're invited into a meeting, who else is at

933
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 3: the table? Whose voices are there? It is so powerful

934
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: to say, oh, well, Jazzmin is new to this meeting, Jasmine,

935
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 3: what are you thinking? Even if she's the intern, Jason,

936
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 3: what are you thinking that? And itself, those little acts

937
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 3: of disruption are so powerful, and I know they seem

938
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 3: so simple, but they're actually incredibly important. And the last

939
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 3: piece is it pertains to what is happening in this world.

940
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 3: These attacks on black people. I'm gonna stop calling attacks

941
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 3: on da the attacks on black people. We've got to

942
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 3: learn to speak their language, and those empowers speak the

943
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 3: language of money. And white power. I'm never going to

944
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 3: speak the language of white power, but I will speak

945
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: the language of money, and we have to continuously show

946
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 3: the value of our dollar. There's a lot of research

947
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 3: out there and there's a lot of ability. I do

948
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 3: this with some of my clients of showing them their

949
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 3: consumer base.

950
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: This is why you actually have.

951
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: To invest in this community, because this is how women buy,

952
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 3: this is how black people buy, this is how they consume.

953
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 3: I would want them to invest because it's their values,

954
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 3: but these are corporations. We got to remove the desire

955
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 3: for these corporations to show up related to values. They

956
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 3: show up because of dollars and cents.

957
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: And once I.

958
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: Figured that out, I said, okay, so long as I

959
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 3: get to my end goal, we can get there however

960
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 3: we need to get there. But as long as I

961
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 3: get to my in goal, and that's more resource for

962
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 3: my community, I will speak your language of dollars and

963
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: cents so that we can get the resources that we need.

964
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: So many more questions, lindsay, I have a ton of

965
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: things that I want to talk to you about, but

966
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: I know you don't have all day to spend with me,

967
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: but I would love for you to talk a little

968
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: bit about like where you see the role of black

969
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: women in the future of American politics.

970
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, I think a lot of issues that we're

971
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 3: having in politics, particularly on the left, on the side

972
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: of progress, because there are a lot of black women

973
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 3: who don't necessarily identify as Democrats, but our only side

974
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: of progress.

975
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: There are a lot of conversations about what.

976
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 3: Went wrong, And I'm like, what went wrong is you

977
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 3: all don't listen to black women. And I think that

978
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: black women in this moment continue to realize our power

979
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 3: so that we don't stop participating, right. And I do

980
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 3: think our role is to be those community educators, right

981
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 3: to talk to our family and our friends. And I

982
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 3: have to remind myself and my friends and I who

983
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: do this word all the time. We talk on television,

984
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: we talk on stages, But did we really talk about

985
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: this at our family reunion? Did we really talk about

986
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: this in our chat? And for us to be that

987
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 3: community voice that we always are and that yes it

988
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 3: is labor, but that's a labor of love of taking

989
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 3: care of our community.

990
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: I'm all for us taking care of our community. And

991
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 2: I do.

992
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: See us continuing to make so many wins. We have

993
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 3: two black women in the United States Senate. That's amazing.

994
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 3: That is amazing. I know the Senate is the Republicans

995
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 3: have the control of the Senate, and quite frankly, the

996
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 3: maps in twenty twenty six do not look good for

997
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 3: us either. But those two black women there so powerful.

998
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: We can't give up with those two women in those positions.

999
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 3: We've got black women who are winning states attorneys races,

1000
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 3: we have black women just doing historic things, and so

1001
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: I think there's so many of us who want to

1002
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 3: continue to see those wins, and we have to pay

1003
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 3: attention to them, and we have to get invested in

1004
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 3: those campaigns. I will say this, Black women who run

1005
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: for office usually don't raise the same amount of money

1006
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 3: as a white man does. And so as we are

1007
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 3: figuring out our budgets, especially over the next few years,

1008
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,479
Speaker 3: we should think through what is my political investment? Because

1009
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: also as you invest in these politicians, you have a

1010
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 3: say too, what's my political investment? I tie I also,

1011
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 3: I mean at the budget my taxes, I also budget

1012
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 3: for who I'm going to support. But really we are

1013
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 3: going to be those community voices and those real life

1014
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 3: examples of what it looks like to continue to participate

1015
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 3: because so many of the ninety two percent. We know

1016
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 3: that we're not going to win all the time, but

1017
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 3: we have to continue to show up and participate. But

1018
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 3: we will not have our labor be exploited. I think

1019
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 3: we are over that. And we have to also continue

1020
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 3: to talk about framing Vice President Harris's campaign and that

1021
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: it was not her. There's a whole system around her,

1022
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 3: because what I don't want is for people to get

1023
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: comfortable with not propping up another black woman to potentially

1024
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: be president. Right, it shouldn't be that far of a

1025
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 3: gap between Shirlechism and Vice President hair I do believe

1026
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 3: that a black woman can be president and will be president,

1027
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 3: and you know what, this country will be better. And

1028
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 3: so before we do all that again, have a little

1029
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 3: bit of rest and joy. It's actually okay because we

1030
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: know what to do and we will show up. But

1031
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 3: like the rest and joy is important for us to

1032
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 3: continue to do our political work.

1033
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: Beautifully stated. So where can we stay connected with you

1034
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: with Lindsia? Where can we find you online? Where can

1035
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: we grab our copy of the book? Please share the details?

1036
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you can find me online at Elencia Johnson

1037
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 3: on I believe all my platforms are that or not

1038
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 3: at allanciaj but I'm mostly on Instagram, so at Alncia Johnson, I'm.

1039
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 2: There in threads.

1040
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 3: And then the book you can find at Flipthetables book

1041
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 3: dot com. That's Tables with an S, so Flip Thetables

1042
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 3: book dot com. And I asked that you just join

1043
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 3: us on this journey of being disruptors.

1044
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely include that in the show notes. Thank you so

1045
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: much for spending some time with me today. I really

1046
00:53:58,840 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

1047
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, doctor Joy.

1048
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Alyncia was able to join me for

1049
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: this conversation. Her insight in times like these is so important.

1050
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: To learn more about her, or to grab a copy

1051
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: of Flip the Tables, go to Therapy for Blackgirls dot

1052
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: com slash session four h two, and don't forget to

1053
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: text this episode to two of your girls right now

1054
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: and tell them to check it out. Did you know

1055
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: You can leave us a voicemail with your questions for

1056
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you want to suggest movies or books

1057
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 1: for us to review, or even give thoughts around topics

1058
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: you'd like to hear discussed, drop us a message at

1059
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: Memo dot fm. Slash Therapy for Black Girls and let

1060
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: us know what's on your mind. We just might highlight

1061
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapists

1062
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for

1063
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And to round out today's episode,

1064
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: I have some huge news for you. For the past

1065
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: five years, the Sister Circle has been our space to connect,

1066
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: grow and show up as our full sells. And now

1067
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: we're expanding that space to bring you even more of

1068
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: what you love. Drum roll please introducing the Therapy for

1069
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 1: Black Girls community on Patreon, your space to be seen, heard,

1070
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: and understood in an even more connected way. So what's new?

1071
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: New content segments like so my Therapist Said, where we

1072
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: break down viral therapy hot takes with real mental health professionals.

1073
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: Add free podcast listening because uninterrupted conversations just hit different

1074
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: TVG community chats where we unpack trending pop culture topics

1075
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: that have us all in our feelings. Exclusive community events

1076
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: and office hours with past podcast guests, Your chance to

1077
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: ask the questions that matter most to you, and much more.

1078
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: This space is your space where you can be in

1079
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: community with other sisters. Our digital home is moving, but

1080
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: our mission stays the same to create a space where

1081
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: Black women are centered, valued and uplifted. Make sure you're

1082
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: following us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls and

1083
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: sign up now at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash

1084
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 1: join Patreon to get exclusive updates and be the first

1085
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: to know when we launch. We can't wait to see

1086
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 1: you inside. This episode was produced by Alice Ellis, Indaychubu,

1087
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank

1088
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I

1089
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

1090
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: Take good care

1091
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 3: What