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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As we go to air,

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Speaker 1: we learn the very latest regarding the manhunt for Brian Laundry.

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Speaker 1: Skeletal remains found in the Carlton Preserve are in fact

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Speaker 1: Brian Laundry. What we believe is that he is largely skeletonized.

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Speaker 1: Why and is this a big red flag of guilt?

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this also breaking tight.

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Speaker 1: The FBI says that the skeletal remains found in a

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Speaker 1: nature preserve in Florida on Wednesday are in fact those

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Speaker 1: are Brian Laundry. Law enforcement head considered Laundry the only

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Speaker 1: person of interest in the murder of his fiance, Gabby Potito.

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Speaker 1: The discovery comes one day after a stunning update from

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Speaker 1: the FBI, which held a press conference outside of this

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Speaker 1: Florida nature preserved. Investigators found would appeared to be human

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Speaker 1: remains at but personal items such as a backpack, a

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Speaker 1: notebook we'longing to Brian Laundry. In a statement on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: the FBI says comparisons of dental records confirmed the human

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Speaker 1: remains found are those of Laundry, and don't pooh pooh

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Speaker 1: dental records. Do you think anybody else has the same

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Speaker 1: set of cavities, feelings, implants, orthodontia that you do. They don't.

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Speaker 1: Dental records have been used for decades before anybody ever

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Speaker 1: heard of deox ribo nucleic acid DNA. Again, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Take a listen now you were

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Speaker 1: hearing our friends at ET. Take a listen to Daytona

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Speaker 1: Everett at Live Now. Rom Fox new details tonight the

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Speaker 1: FBI Field office in Denver confirming that the human remains

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Speaker 1: found just yesterday on myc Hatchee Trail in Park are

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Speaker 1: those of Brian Laundry according to some of those dental records.

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Speaker 1: To give a little more detail, they say a comparison

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Speaker 1: of dental records confirms that the human remains are in

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Speaker 1: fact Brian Laundry. We also got a couple of confirmations

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Speaker 1: from the two different families from the Gabby Petito family.

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Speaker 1: They say that Gabby's family is not doing interviews or

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Speaker 1: making a statement at this time. The Gabby Petito family

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Speaker 1: extremely distraught. Now apparently they will never have answers about

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Speaker 1: their daughter's murderer again. I Nancy graces his crime stories

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Speaker 1: with me and All Star Panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know now. First of all, Wendy Patcheck, California prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: author of Red Flags and of Today with doctor Wendy KCBQ.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark were noowned New York psychologists joining us from Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen with

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Speaker 1: a C Founder director of the Coldcase Research Institute. Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCullum at Coldcase Crimes dot org. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of

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Speaker 1: brand new hit series on iHeart podcast Bodybags with Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan for first to Musa's side, joining US investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter on the ground WFLATV in Tampa, Massa, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. You know, when the remains were found,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of speculation went wild. As a matter of fact, Massa,

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Speaker 1: take a list to our friends at NBC New York.

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Speaker 1: Listen Kell Silva remains were actually just bones, That's what

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Speaker 1: the human were lust. Yesterday, Laundry's parents told the FBI

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Speaker 1: that they were going to hit one of the trails

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Speaker 1: that he frequented, a place that they said they had

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Speaker 1: told investigators to search in the beginning. When they went there,

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Speaker 1: the water had receded quite a bit, and that's when

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Speaker 1: they were able to find Brian's backpack a I'm notebook,

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Speaker 1: and then steps away from that, they were able to

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Speaker 1: find partial human remains were told they were skeletal remains,

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Speaker 1: and also a partial piece of a human skull were

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Speaker 1: found as well. And it's apparent that all this information,

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Speaker 1: all the remains that they were able to find, were

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Speaker 1: able to help make a positive identification Tomaso's w FLATV.

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Speaker 1: That is where all the theories, all the speculation, all

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Speaker 1: the clues melded together to come up with a lot

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Speaker 1: of ideas, let me say, hypotheses about how Brian Laundry's

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Speaker 1: remains are found, largely centered on Chris and ROBERTA Laundry.

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Speaker 1: They go out, they announced are going to go out

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Speaker 1: and search for their son, and in less than an hour,

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Speaker 1: where couldaver dogs have failed, drones have failed, dive teams

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Speaker 1: have failed, hundreds of man hours have failed, they find

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Speaker 1: him in less than an hour. That led to a

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Speaker 1: lot of speculation because of the very rare coincidence. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is definitely a coincidence, and certainly I understand all

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Speaker 1: the questions that people have about this. This is an

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Speaker 1: area that was searched for over a month by multiple

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Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies and they found nothing, no sign of

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Speaker 1: Brian laundry. Then the parents show up at the scene.

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Speaker 1: They're closely followed by law enforcement, and very quickly after

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Speaker 1: the briefest of searches, the parents find the drive back

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Speaker 1: law enforcement finds the backpack and the partial human remains

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Speaker 1: the skull. And you know, people have questions, why now,

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Speaker 1: Why was this discovering made now? And I asked the attorney,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Bertolino about this yesterday. I said, how did christ

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Speaker 1: and Roverna know exactly where to go? Why did they

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Speaker 1: start here? And he said, first of all, this was

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Speaker 1: the general area that they had told law enforces Brian

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Speaker 1: would be all along one and two. He said, they

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Speaker 1: just started at the beginning. It was happened, Stan, they

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Speaker 1: just started. Roberta was walking the trail, Chris started to

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Speaker 1: zig zag through the woods and that's when he made

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Speaker 1: the discovery. So it certainly is a coincidence. But the

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Speaker 1: attorney says that this was an area, according to the attorney,

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Speaker 1: according to the SBI, that had been submerged before. So

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Speaker 1: I think the questions for the family I certainly understand them,

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Speaker 1: but there should also be questions to law enforcement. I

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Speaker 1: don't think anyone is suggesting the families planted the remains. Well,

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Speaker 1: actually some people are suggesting the family planted his remains.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of suggestions going on straight out to

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum way and Cheryl Nancy. I think that the

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Speaker 1: family attorney is directly involved with the way people are

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Speaker 1: see in this case and the conspiracy theories. I've got

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Speaker 1: four points. I want to make it real quick. We're

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Speaker 1: originally told that he went to the Carton Reserve. Then

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Speaker 1: we find out no, it's the my Hatchey Park, which

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Speaker 1: is seventeen miles away. Then we're told he left on

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth. Nope, nope. Now we're told he left on

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Speaker 1: the thirteenth. Then the lawyer says he notified law enforcement

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Speaker 1: himself that Brian was missing the night of the thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: of the morning of the fourteenth, that couldn't remember, and

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Speaker 1: law enforcement says that ain't true. We didn't know he

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Speaker 1: was missing until the seventeenth. Then we're told mom bought

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Speaker 1: him a cell phone on September fourteenth, and they're own

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Speaker 1: surveillance video and the attorney comes back and says, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the FBI even has that phone. That's why John Q

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Speaker 1: public is concerned. That's why we have conspiracy theories because

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Speaker 1: the lawyer can't even keep things straight. You know, she's right.

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor and host

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Speaker 1: of Today with Doctor Wendy KCBQ. Wendy, you my boss.

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Speaker 1: Mister Slayton, the longings longest serving district attorney in the

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Speaker 1: country at that time thirty seven years elected, made it

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Speaker 1: very clear, don't speak to the press if you're cornered.

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Speaker 1: Be prepared with a very generic comment. And I had

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Speaker 1: a generic comment. I believe the jury will return a

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Speaker 1: verdict that speaks the truth, which I do believe in

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Speaker 1: most cases. Here the changing of the stories on behalf

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Speaker 1: of the lawyer has led to rife speculation. Now he's

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Speaker 1: pod technical legal term because people are coming up with theories.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. Take a listener, our cut

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Speaker 1: three ninety three. This is him speaking to News Nation.

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Speaker 1: Now listen three ninety three. Tyler got the FBI, local PD,

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Speaker 1: an independent news reporter all there at the same time.

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Speaker 1: You seeing the same thing. You've got quote unquote surveillance

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Speaker 1: of the laundries twenty four to seven by protests and

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Speaker 1: people of the press. When did you think these items

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Speaker 1: were planted? And do you really think that the laundries

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Speaker 1: had skello remains of the sun, you know, in a

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Speaker 1: plastic bed and rub to the preserver. Do you realize

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Speaker 1: how ludicrous that is, how aggravating, how magnie it is

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Speaker 1: to even hear those things, And the fact that it's

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Speaker 1: being put out there by the press as well, that's

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Speaker 1: where my level of frustration and anger is coming from.

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Speaker 1: Maybe somebody with a platform should set up and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: knock it off. This is just silly. So I'm the

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Speaker 1: only one who has to say that this is hot

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Speaker 1: wash because I didn't want to say the word pulls.

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Speaker 1: Then I'm going to say it's full and I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: If John Public doesn't get that, you know what, that's

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Speaker 1: your fault. Bertolini, exactly what Cheryl McCollum said, and that

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Speaker 1: is why the blanket rule is shut your pie hole.

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Speaker 1: But apparently they didn't teach him that at law school.

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Speaker 1: And if he hasn't noticed all of us have been

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Speaker 1: saying now, how it doesn't make logical sense that the

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Speaker 1: parents planet items, because that would mean they planet a

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Speaker 1: body too. So I guess that's just another opportunity for

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Speaker 1: Bertolino to spout off. Massa's sayed, he's angry. He the

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Speaker 1: lawyer is angry. What about Gabby Petito's family. He needs

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Speaker 1: to just go away. The Potito family has suffered enough

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Speaker 1: and now they will never have justice. Why is he

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Speaker 1: saying he, a lawyer with no connection to this case,

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Speaker 1: is angry. We're trained as lawyers to be advocates in

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Speaker 1: a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.

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Speaker 1: Because when we try to take on that role, which

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Speaker 1: we're not qualified to do and shouldn't be doing, this

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Speaker 1: is the result. You have the driving public opinion of

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Speaker 1: sending people exploiting some of these facts to the detriment

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Speaker 1: of Gabby's family. You know, you'dn't hear these same arguments

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Speaker 1: coming from the other side. This family is grieving and

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Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what happened. But there is

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Speaker 1: now the pendulum seems to be swinging as there's a

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Speaker 1: decreased appreciation for these spontaneous comments that we hears the

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Speaker 1: lawyer making. That's for sure. I think that he recognizes

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Speaker 1: that as well, at least he will if he doesn't yet. Well,

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Speaker 1: another thing is I don't appreciate him cursing throughout his

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Speaker 1: comments that relate to Gabby. But that's a whole nother

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Speaker 1: can of worms. That was Wendy Patrick speaking that Windy

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Speaker 1: or massa massa go ahead. I just wanted to say,

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Speaker 1: he did say and several interviews. Now is not the

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Speaker 1: time to talk about the Gabby Petito case. And you

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Speaker 1: imagine the impact I would have on Nicole Schmidt. But

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Speaker 1: he wasn't just a lawyer for this family. We found

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Speaker 1: out that you know, he's known them for twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: He has talked to Chris. Oh wait, wait, wait, wait wait,

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Speaker 1: he's not just a lawyer. He's done with twenty five

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Speaker 1: years for what for what? Did they go to the

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Speaker 1: same church, the same synagogue? Did they have dinner together? No,

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Speaker 1: he probably knows him from being their lawyer. He is

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Speaker 1: a lawyer. Is there any suggestion he knows him in

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Speaker 1: a social or friendship way? He said he's known Brian

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Speaker 1: since he was a small child. He said he cried

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Speaker 1: upon getting the news yesterday that this is hitting him hard.

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Speaker 1: So he doesn't say that he knew Brian as an adult.

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Speaker 1: He but he did to me. My impression and listening

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Speaker 1: to him was that he was personally friends with Chris Laundry.

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Speaker 1: Well that may be true, but let's not take the

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Speaker 1: folks us off what this is all about. This is

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Speaker 1: all about a dead girl. A dead girl, Gabby Petito.

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Speaker 1: And here's the rub, Joe Scott Morgan, here's a fly

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Speaker 1: in the ointment. We're probably going to be able to

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Speaker 1: figure out what happened to Brian Laundry, exactly what happened

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Speaker 1: that he went off into the woods, overridden by guilt

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Speaker 1: about murdering Gabby and killed himself. But we may never

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Speaker 1: really know what happened to Gabby. Yeah, unless he made

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Speaker 1: some kind of unless he made some kind of admission

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Speaker 1: in this notebook that they keep referring to all the

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Speaker 1: thought careen A Stark the notebook, you know, I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you it's going to be like the scribblings of a

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Speaker 1: fifth grade girl. That's what we're gonna find. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you look look at Brian Laundry. Look, I hate

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Speaker 1: to say it again, but when you don't know a horse,

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Speaker 1: look at his track record. He's not working, he's living

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Speaker 1: off his parents, his girlfriend, paid for the trip. He's

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Speaker 1: even using her debit card after he kills her. Every

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Speaker 1: time I see him see him in one of her vlogs,

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Speaker 1: he's reading or writing. What do you think is going

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Speaker 1: to be in there? You know what? At his age,

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Speaker 1: you know what I was doing. I had two jobs

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Speaker 1: and was in law school, trying to get myself through.

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Speaker 1: My husband same thing, working at a sixty seventy hour week.

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Speaker 1: My dad shipped off to the navy, and he is

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Speaker 1: using his girlfriend's money and van to go on a

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Speaker 1: trip and extended two month trip and writing his thoughts

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Speaker 1: and his innermost feelings. So what do you think is

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Speaker 1: going to be in the notebook? Karen Stark? Whatever we've

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Speaker 1: been there, I really do believe Nancy that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be all about extending and stuff whatever. It seems

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Speaker 1: to me that he's definitely left it there to be

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Speaker 1: found and that he wants to tell his side of

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Speaker 1: whatever he's contacted of this story and how he was

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Speaker 1: led to do whatever deed he did to kill her,

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Speaker 1: if he even is that specific. But it's all about

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Speaker 1: making sure that he's been in the right light. Well,

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Speaker 1: I can guarantee you this, it's gonna be about me

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Speaker 1: me me me me me me me me me me

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Speaker 1: me me me me. That's what it's gonna be about.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that right now. Okay, Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan back to you. Yeah, you know, And I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that they secured this notebook to the point where they've

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Speaker 1: got it up to the FBI crime lab where the

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Speaker 1: question documents section. But that's another point. I want to

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Speaker 1: get back to the body, you know, going back to

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Speaker 1: what Mac was saying just a moment ago, relative to

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Speaker 1: this Tomeline. Tom is critical here because we're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how long this body had been out there

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Speaker 1: at this reserve, how long had he been down in

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Speaker 1: this hostile environment relative to the weather, and this is

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Speaker 1: going to be hard to determine. What's key about this, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: is we don't really know how long the skeletonized remains.

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Speaker 1: Remember they keep saying that have been out there, and

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Speaker 1: it takes a while for a body to become skeletonized.

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Speaker 1: But Joe Scott, I mean, you're the death investigator, having

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Speaker 1: seen literally thousands of death says, but it struck me,

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Speaker 1: how can he already be skeletonized? It's very simple. This

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Speaker 1: this environment is so very harsh, Nancy. Heat, heat speeds

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Speaker 1: everything up. I mean, it just it just buy a

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Speaker 1: huge factor. So the hotter it is, and also the

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Speaker 1: relative humidity, the tissue will literally come apart from the bones.

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Speaker 1: And this, you know, to be quite blunt with you,

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Speaker 1: this is drawing predators in there, scavengers in there. That's

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably why we only have a partial skeleton.

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Speaker 1: But Nancy, one of the things that just is bugging

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Speaker 1: me is the fact that they're saying in the reporter

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Speaker 1: said it in the in the first bit they said

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Speaker 1: there was a partial skull, Nancy, the skull please hear me, right,

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Speaker 1: the skull and he shot himself. Let me just say this,

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Speaker 1: the skull is one of the most robust bony structures

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Speaker 1: that we have in our skeleton. I've always heard that

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Speaker 1: the jawbone was strong. Okay, it's very strong, as well

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Speaker 1: as the pilovis. But the structure of the skull is amazing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't just automatically come apart. It generally takes some

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Speaker 1: kind of force, some kind of trauma to break it apart.

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Speaker 1: Now we do know that at least there was enough

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Speaker 1: there for them to do what get a dental identification

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Speaker 1: either from the maxillary teeth, the upper teeth, or the

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Speaker 1: jaw bone the mandilary teeth. And see, it's when you

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Speaker 1: say things like that that's why we keep you hanging around,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy. See because right there now, when you

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Speaker 1: say it, it suddenly appears to be obvious. But you

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Speaker 1: know what, He's right, part of the skull is missing

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Speaker 1: in one of the if not the strongest bones in

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Speaker 1: the body of the skull. Did he shoot himself? But yet,

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Speaker 1: as Joe Scott has just pointed out, they could do

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Speaker 1: a dental comparison. So that means go ahead and finish

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Speaker 1: your thought. Go ahead, Joe Scott. Yes, and this is

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Speaker 1: something that you know, based on my experience work in

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Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office, it takes it takes a few

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Speaker 1: moments to get dental records, all right. They turn this

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Speaker 1: thing around so quick, Nancy, it's almost like they had

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Speaker 1: these records in their back pocket. I mean this was

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Speaker 1: within twenty four hours. Many times Dennis requires the poena.

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Speaker 1: Anybody on the panel, you're all qualified for this one.

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Speaker 1: You know, if someone said, okay, we gotta do dental

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Speaker 1: records on Okay, I'm not going to use my husband.

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Speaker 1: I'll use you Jackie on Jackie, I would have to

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Speaker 1: go find Wow, who's her dentist? How do I find

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Speaker 1: the dentist? Let me look through her cell phone, let

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Speaker 1: me look through her credit card payments? When did she

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Speaker 1: last go to the dentist? To find the dentist? And

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Speaker 1: you got to convince the dentist to give you the

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Speaker 1: records or as Joe Scott accurately pointed out, uses subpoena.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have to do that. So what does that

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Speaker 1: tell you? Nack? Well, that tells me again listening to

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Speaker 1: the attorney, he cleared some things up yesterday and this

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Speaker 1: would be one of those things when he says again

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Speaker 1: that you know, John Q Public is you know, full

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Speaker 1: of bullshit. Here's part of his bullsh He could have

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Speaker 1: told us this a while back. The family already gave

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Speaker 1: the dental records and DNA for this very comparison if

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Speaker 1: it came about, which again would have told us early

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Speaker 1: on if he had released that information, that that's what

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Speaker 1: the family fortunately was thinking had happened to the I

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Speaker 1: think you're right, yep. I gotta say, you know, going back, Mac,

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Speaker 1: do you remember, Nancy, do you remember it was what

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Speaker 1: a week and a half ago, those two FBI agents

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Speaker 1: showed back up at the house, remember, and they were right.

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Speaker 1: They had They had two boxes with them, and I

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Speaker 1: swear they look like boxes to retrieve DNA. And I

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Speaker 1: think they were probably retrieving using the swab to get

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Speaker 1: it from the parents so they could do a lot.

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Speaker 1: That's what I think. Speaking of the lawyer disseminating a

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Speaker 1: lot of let me just say unwelcome comments. I want

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Speaker 1: you to take a listen to this. This is our

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Speaker 1: cut three eight six him speaking with Tom Olamas NBC.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this. Today is not the day to discuss

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Speaker 1: the Gabby Petito case. I understand that that was the impetus,

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Speaker 1: that that is the reason why all this is happening,

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't explain why people come up with these

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Speaker 1: nonsensical theories as to yesterday's events and some other events.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't explained Tom, why major news organizations just yesterday. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What explains it is all of the misinformation and veiled

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Speaker 1: comments that the lawyer has released. And now I'm wondering,

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Speaker 1: did you hear Marsha Saiedi. At one point he the

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Speaker 1: lawyer referred to the quote Gabby situation, the situation. Her

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Speaker 1: dead body is a situation that his client left to rot.

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Speaker 1: That's a quote situation. Did you hear that. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember hearing exactly. Did he said that the Gabby situation.

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Speaker 1: He definitely wasn't talking about Gabby Petito at all. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to take that away. He wanted to be the

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Speaker 1: conversation away from that. I will tell you another thing

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Speaker 1: that he said it's about to me is he said

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Speaker 1: that Brian was very upset when he left on September thirteenth.

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Speaker 1: The family was so worried on September thirteenth. At one

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Speaker 1: point he said the painful saga since the number thirteen.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting that he's saying that the

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Speaker 1: pain started for the family on September thirteenth, when we

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Speaker 1: know that, you know, it had started long before the story.

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Speaker 1: It's my understanding that he said that Brian Laundry was

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Speaker 1: angry and upset that the father, Chris Laundry, tried to

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Speaker 1: keep him from leaving, but he left us. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to Eric at three ninety five Top Story with

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Speaker 1: Tom Lamas. No, they did not. What I can tell

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Speaker 1: you is that Brian was very upset when he left

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Speaker 1: and Chris conveyed to me several times that you know,

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Speaker 1: he wished he didn't let him go, but he couldn't

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Speaker 1: stop them. So this has been a painful saga for

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Speaker 1: them since September thirteenth. It's been a long haul. But

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Speaker 1: Brian is a grown man, young man twenty two years old.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to walk out the door. He was a

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Speaker 1: title to walk out the door. What do you make

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Speaker 1: of that, Cheryl McCollum, Nancy, Again, part of my problem

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Speaker 1: with this guy is if that were the case and

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Speaker 1: he leaves the house upset and dad tried to stop

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Speaker 1: him in coutting't why weren't the police called. Why did

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Speaker 1: they not insist on going out there with them that

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Speaker 1: very night the next day? Why when we're all watching

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Speaker 1: this unfold, they're showing you an aerial view of where

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Speaker 1: they're searching every day, and if you know he's in

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Speaker 1: the park versus the reserve, why aren't you correcting that.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand how any of this has unfolded without

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Speaker 1: them losing their mind? Is that you massa jump in?

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Speaker 1: That was made? Patrick? Go ahead, Massa, I'll follow you

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Speaker 1: just really quickly. The attorney does claim the paren did

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Speaker 1: look for him on the thirteenth, on the fourteenth, and

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Speaker 1: on the fifteenth. Just want to make that quick point

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Speaker 1: of clarification, Okay, back to you when they Massa and

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Speaker 1: Charyla bringing out some really good points about this timeline

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Speaker 1: and the lawyer's rule. So it's focus on the family

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Speaker 1: right now now, especially given the first day of the

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Speaker 1: park's open parents go out, they know that their son

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Speaker 1: uses this particular trail, but as you mentioned, they didn't

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Speaker 1: correct when they were all searching in the wrong in

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Speaker 1: the wrong place, and so obviously now the lawyer feels

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Speaker 1: like he has to sort of mitigate the damage that

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Speaker 1: might have been done now that we're working backwards, because

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Speaker 1: you know, the civil suits might be on the horizon.

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Speaker 1: There may be wrongful death suits, and at the very

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Speaker 1: least that's the way the investigation will be going, at

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Speaker 1: least in part. So the line the lawyer has to

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Speaker 1: walk is making sure we're not downplaying the tragedy that

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Speaker 1: happened to Gabby Petito. But I think he's also trying

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Speaker 1: to get almost a sneak preview of the evidence that's

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Speaker 1: going to come out in court, at least in the

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Speaker 1: court of public opinion. Once the focus shifts to the family,

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Speaker 1: as it seems to be already doing. I feel very

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Speaker 1: s the reason think he killed himself. The reason that

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Speaker 1: he killed himself, I believe is because he was overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: with guilt at murdering Gabby, of course, and that's why

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Speaker 1: the parents didn't want him to leave on the thirteenth.

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to say again, I want to try

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Speaker 1: to be very clear. The parents may have gone back

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Speaker 1: out there. My point is why did they not call

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Speaker 1: everybody they know? Why wouldn't assistant brother in law out there?

402
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Speaker 1: Why weren't they calling friends and co workers. Why weren't

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Speaker 1: they demanding law enforcement meet them out there? On the

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Speaker 1: thirteenth and the fourteenth, and the fifteenth, and the sixteenth,

405
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Speaker 1: law enboards that says they didn't know nothing toil the seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: So again we are left to believe people that have

407
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Speaker 1: changed the date on us, change the location on us,

408
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Speaker 1: change the fact when the cell phone was purchased or not.

409
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Speaker 1: So we have been misled, whether on purpose or not.

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Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I want to say again what this

411
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Speaker 1: guy's on a soapbox and listen to a cherild saying

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Speaker 1: what everyone saying, talking so much he's taking advantage of

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Speaker 1: this opportunity to be in front of the camera and

414
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Speaker 1: express his views and entertain everybody that he's getting he's

415
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Speaker 1: getting everything confused, he's giving misinformation, he's getting the public

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Speaker 1: upset and continuing to go on. And then he's saying

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Speaker 1: that everyone else is stupid, and he doesn't want to

418
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Speaker 1: lock his clients into his statements. That's the other big problem.

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Speaker 1: As a lawyer, can't get out there make statements. This

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Speaker 1: is what the dad knew, this is what he thought,

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Speaker 1: and then when this finally gets to court, that's not

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Speaker 1: at all what the father or the mother wants to say.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the other issues there. Now we are

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Speaker 1: assuming phrase he used was he's a grown man. He

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Speaker 1: can do what he wants to do. And your point

426
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: is my point is is that he's trying to say

427
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: that the parents had nothing to do with this Laundry.

428
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: We have all been assuming that Brian Laundry committed suicide.

429
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: And I guess you would argue Joe Scott Morgan that

430
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: he did that by gunshots, since part of his skull

431
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: is missing, yet his dental records were intact. Yes or no, No,

432
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't have any evidence to that well part of yeah,

433
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: I know, and so I don't know. Maybe he was

434
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: bludging for all I know, maybe fellow of the tree.

435
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't have enough evidence. Okay, as a

436
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: matter of fact, take a listen to our cut three

437
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: seven six is in Elite County Sheriff Carmine Marcino. Listen today,

438
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: when I walked back there, I got to see firsthand

439
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: the treacherous conditions that they were working on. We're talking

440
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: about water levels up above almost a chest area, rattlesnakes, moccasins, alligators,

441
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: and these heroes go out there. So what I'm looking

442
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: at is the possibility that he did not commit suicide.

443
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: What about that straight back out to massas said joining

444
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: us from WFLATV. They're on the scene. Do we have

445
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: any indication this was suicide or people assuming that? Right now?

446
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: People are assuming that. But the lawyer, let me tell

447
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: you one thing that hit me so hard. During the

448
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: Tommy Amast interview, Tommy almost asked any idea of how

449
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: Brian may have ended his life, and the attorney didn't

450
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: correct him, didn't say, this isn't a suicide. You're making

451
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: an assumption. So I don't know if I'm reading too

452
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: much into that. But Tommy Aamas specifically said assumes that

453
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: Brian had ended his life, and the attorney did not

454
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: correct him. But as of right now, we don't have

455
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: any manner of death here. If it was natural, if

456
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: it was an accident, if it was a suicide, we

457
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: just do not know at this point. Hey, do you

458
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan? We're talking about the notebook that may

459
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: or may not be in the dry bag, which, coincidentally,

460
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: if you we're going to leave a suicide note, I

461
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: would think you would leave it in the vehicle for

462
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: your parents to find it was not in the vehicle.

463
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: Explain to me how that suicide note, if it's been

464
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: in the water, can be restored. Okay, first thing we

465
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: need to understand is that it's a paper product, so

466
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: it's cellulo space. That means it's made out of organic material,

467
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: tree material. Okay, So what they have to do. What

468
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: they have to do is essentially freeze it, and I

469
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: literally mean that, Nancy. They have to freeze this thing

470
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: in place so that they can stop the decomposition, just

471
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: like a body organic Remember, stop this decompositional process with

472
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: the paper, because it's just falling apart at a molecular level.

473
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: Then they have to take it and treat it like

474
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: an archive like you would, I don't know, one of

475
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: our precious documents in this country. And they have to

476
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: have a question document examiner under control, very highly controlled

477
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: circumstances to go in and once this thing is settled

478
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: gently open to remember, they said they haven't even opened

479
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: this thing yet, so they're actually keeping it in what

480
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: we referred to as stasis that means kind of frozen

481
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: in time until they can get it there in a

482
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: secure location and then try to enhance. And my suspicion

483
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: is this they're going to use something like infrared lighting

484
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: is called alternative lighting sourcing in order to enhance what's

485
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: in there, because, as we all know, ink smudges, and

486
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: so they're gonna have to go back and one of

487
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: the things they're gonna be looking at is how much

488
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: pressure did he apply with a pen for instance, And

489
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: sometimes with the pressure you can actually pick up on

490
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: what was written even though the ink has been smudged

491
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: or is running. Okay, let's get real just a moment

492
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: about what may or may not be in that notebook.

493
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: We've already heard Karen starts psychologists out of New York

494
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: joining us to you, Cheryl McCollum. We've been on a

495
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: lot of scenes homicide and suicide at best. What do

496
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: you expect to get out of that notebook? I think

497
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: it's a note book that he's had. He had the

498
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: dry bag ready, he had the back hack ready, he

499
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: had some type of writing instrument with him. There's going

500
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: to be some of his past drawings and doodlings. You know,

501
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: he'd liked to make those almost cartoon type figures. It's

502
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: probably going to be a detailed, you know type summary

503
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: his viewpoint of what happened. And I mean hopefully that's

504
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: what's going to be in there, and hopefully it'll shed

505
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: some light for both families. You know, I find it

506
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: very interesting that they did not the parents did not

507
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: go to the exact spot where they claim they thought

508
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: he would have been hiking. Could you show some light

509
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: on that MASSASAITI, Well, what the attorney says, if you

510
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: want to believe them, as he said that. In fact, yes,

511
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: on October seventh, Chris Laundry did not go to that

512
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: exact location. For my recollection of the interviews, he did

513
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: say that, but he has said that all along from

514
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: the seventeen when he was officially reported missing to Northport PD,

515
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: so that the search could presume. He says that that

516
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: general area was identified to law enforcement, and so law

517
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: enforcement looked at the trails in that general area, but

518
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: because of water, law enforcement was not able to go

519
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: off the trail. And I guess the question for me

520
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: now is why that wasn't searched again once the water

521
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: receded before they reopened the park. You know, I find

522
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: the behavior very unusual, how everyone in the laundry camp

523
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: wants us to not think about Gabby. You know, this morning,

524
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: Gabby Potato's family is waking up full of pain and

525
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: an emptiness and a hopelessness that now they'll never really

526
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: know what happened and they will never have justice. That

527
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: is agonizing Karen's dark. I can't think of anything worse.

528
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: You're talking about their child, Nancy, You of all people, right,

529
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to your children, nothing is

530
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: are important, and they won't really know what they're going

531
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: to have if they find that in the notebook. Is

532
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: some kind of defense that will make Brian appeared to

533
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: be innocent and have been forced to do something. Who

534
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: knows what he came up with, but they will never

535
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: really know what happened to their daughter, and that is awful.

536
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: And you know, Wendy Patrick, I've seen that with many

537
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: crime victims that never get justice and it never goes away.

538
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: No one never does. And you know, the best we

539
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: can hope for is some level of closure because they understand,

540
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: their questions are answered, they have what they need to

541
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: heal and move on. But this is not one of

542
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: those cases. And that's why our heart goes out to them,

543
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: and to disregard their pain and just focus on Brian

544
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: just makes that worse. And that's part of what we've

545
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: been listening to the last couple of days, and we

546
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: hope we can turn that around. Take a listen to

547
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: our cut three nine four. This is again the family

548
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: lawyer trying to shed light on what happened when Brian

549
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: Laundry walks out of the house. Listen. So just one

550
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: more thing about that, and I promise I will let

551
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: it go. Did your clients go out to the reserve

552
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: prior to yesterday morning on their own at any time? Yes,

553
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: they did, back in early September, say early September, mid September,

554
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: which would have been the fourteenth and the fifteenth. Were

555
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: they there with Brian or with authorities? No, they were

556
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: there on their own. That was the day after Brian

557
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: had went to the hid and didn't come home. And

558
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: what did they do there? They walked around the trails

559
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: looking for Brian Initially? Is this when they picked up

560
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: the car on the second day they think of the car? Correct?

561
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: Did they find any items or anything that led them

562
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: to believe that he was out there at that time

563
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: aside the car? No? So do you McCollum again the

564
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: lawyer seemingly putting out a lot of theory weight in Nancy,

565
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: It's just I'm over it, because here's the reality. They

566
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: knew a location they at ten pointed a very narrow

567
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: place to start from the very beginning, but I don't

568
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: think that was conveyed to law enforcement until four days

569
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: later on the seventeenth. The reality is when law enforcement says, well,

570
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: you know that was you know, full of water and

571
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: you know all that sort of stuff. Dead body float period.

572
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: Dogs can hit cadaver, dogs can hit on odors underwater.

573
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: We put those dogs on boats all the time and

574
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: they alert. And the reality here is you have somebody

575
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: that did whatever they did, and whatever happened to them

576
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: in a location that should have been saturated with police

577
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: the day he didn't come home. The next day that

578
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: he didn't come home, helicopters weren't used, dogs weren't used.

579
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: Nothing happened until the seventeenth. And I still maintain with

580
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: that attorney and those parents. If he did not come

581
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: home the night of the thirteenth of the fourteenth, they

582
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: should have been screaming from the rooftop to get law

583
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: enforcement out there. They should have called everybody they know,

584
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: and that did not happen. Will there be charges against

585
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: the laundry parents? What about it? Massasati? And that is

586
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: the question that comes about now. The attorney did talk

587
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: about that yesterday. He said that there had been conversations

588
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: that had been had with authorities, and he said these

589
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: are just conversations that are ordinarily had. He said that

590
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: the FBI did not pressure or coerce the family in

591
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: any way, and he says that no deal has been made.

592
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: That was in response to questions from reporters about whether

593
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: the family was now eating with law enforcement, you know

594
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: Mus's side. For there to be any prosecution, there has

595
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: to be an overt act simply not calling police is

596
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: not going to qualify for a prosecution. Yeah, they My

597
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: understanding from talking with legal experts is that they would

598
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: have had to try to clean up something from the van,

599
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: try to cover up the crime for there to be

600
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, hold on, Cheryl McCollum, Jess got

601
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: Morgan ker and start Wendy Patrick. What about from August

602
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: twenty nine when they know he's coming home without Gabby

603
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: and Gabby's car using her debit card, until the eleventh

604
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: when they all go camping until the tha when he

605
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: goes missing. I mean, what about all that time? What

606
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: were they doing? I'll tell you what I think. The

607
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: real devil in this whole thing is the first phone

608
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: call from Gabby's family to Brian's mama. She did not

609
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: answer the phone. She knew that death. She knew not

610
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: days for the phone. She wasn't going to even risk

611
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: having to make a statement to those folks. She knew

612
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: long before the attorney says he left on the thirteenth.

613
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: They knew long before that. We wait as justice unfalls.

614
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off Goodbye,