Speaker 1: Uh, Superintendent Dalmers, welcome. I hope you're prepared for an
Speaker 1: unforgettable lungeon.
Speaker 2: Why is the coming out of your ravncmyr oh.
Speaker 1: That doesn't smoke, it's steam steamed from the steamed clams.
Speaker 1: We're having steam claims.
Speaker 2: I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry o'she. I served in
Speaker 2: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover
Speaker 2: all around the world.
Speaker 3: And in my thirty three years with the CIA, I
Speaker 3: served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.
Speaker 2: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we
Speaker 2: created conspiracies.
Speaker 3: In our operations. We got people to believe things that
Speaker 3: weren't true.
Speaker 2: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the
Speaker 2: news almost every day.
Speaker 3: We'll break them down for you to determine whether they
Speaker 3: could be real or whether we're being manipulated.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Mission Implausible. Welcome back. Good to see you, guys.
Speaker 1: Good to see you.
Speaker 4: I'm here too, guys, I know because I can see you.
Speaker 4: Good to see you.
Speaker 3: John and Adam high jinks. Are we getting up to today?
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Speaker 3: Do you know that main cheese that they were going
Speaker 3: to be selling in Israel? But apparently it doesn't translate
Speaker 3: into Hebrew very well, so they had to change the
Speaker 3: name when they were going to sell it, and Adam,
Speaker 3: do you know what the name they use for it is?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 4: No, no, so.
Speaker 3: Selling it in Israel now, so they're calling it Cheeses
Speaker 3: of Nanzrath. The only thing sillier at this conversation is
Speaker 3: like the Simpsons.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's funny you mentioned the Simpsons, because I think
Speaker 4: I'm the biggest Simpsons fan of all of us. I
Speaker 4: actually remember watching the very first episode live when it
Speaker 4: was on Look Dad, it's Sana as little Helper.
Speaker 6: Oh we keep him God true, but.
Speaker 1: He's a loser.
Speaker 4: He But that acht.
Speaker 1: The Simpson.
Speaker 4: And years later I had the pleasure of working in
Speaker 4: comedy and finding myself crossing paths with all the Simpsons
Speaker 4: writers and directors.
Speaker 2: I think much more highly of you now, because I'm
Speaker 2: a big fan of the Simpsons too.
Speaker 5: I love the Simpsons very much, and I've tried to
Speaker 5: interest my son.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't what he's turned to you onto the Celtics.
Speaker 2: But you can't turn him onto I can't.
Speaker 5: Turn them them onto the Simpsons, not yet anyway.
Speaker 4: So I can't say this for a fact, but I
Speaker 4: feel like the Simpsons invented the Easter Egg. And so
Speaker 4: if you watch The Simpsons and you want to watch
Speaker 4: the episode the second time or a third time, you're
Speaker 4: always finding these little visual jokes in the background and
Speaker 4: a sign. And it really became the thing where you
Speaker 4: pause and you put in slow motion because you want
Speaker 4: to pick up all these little jokes. But that's the
Speaker 4: perfect situation to think that you're seeing special messages that
Speaker 4: aren't there just for comedy. Could you explain to me
Speaker 4: the conspiracy theory about the Simpsons we're about to discuss, as.
Speaker 3: I understand it is that CIA has recruited Matt Groening
Speaker 3: and these writers as a way to either a telegraph
Speaker 3: its predictions of the future that it's making, or b
Speaker 3: it's to use this to somehow subvert American society.
Speaker 2: I think people when they hear intelligence, they assume that
Speaker 2: it's a predictive agency. Collect that that's your job of
Speaker 2: the CIA is to go to the president say China's
Speaker 2: going to collapse next year and there's going to be
Speaker 2: who when in fact, as you and I know, intelligence
Speaker 2: isn't really about prediction, even with perfect information, it's impossible
Speaker 2: in this complex world to predict things. It's more about
Speaker 2: providing as much information to help policymakers make smart decisions.
Speaker 4: And so the reason The Simpsons is the focus of
Speaker 4: this conspiracy theory is because The Simpsons has apparently predicted
Speaker 4: so many things, and so many important things that it
Speaker 4: stands out. But the most famous prediction was in a
Speaker 4: two thousand episode titled Bart to the Future. Bart thinks
Speaker 4: about the future, he envisions Lisa Simpson as president.
Speaker 6: As you know, we've inherited quite a budget crunch from
Speaker 6: President Trump. How bad is it, Secretary van Houghton.
Speaker 2: We're broke.
Speaker 6: The country has broke.
Speaker 1: How can that be?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 6: Remember when the last administration decided to invest in our
Speaker 6: nation's children?
Speaker 4: Big mistake. This aired long before Trump was president. Obviously,
Speaker 4: See you guys ready for our guests, Bring them on.
Speaker 2: I'm excited. I'm a big fan, so I'm excited to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 4: These guys are legends in the world of the Simpsons
Speaker 4: and comedy. David Silverman and Bill Oakley. Now, David Silverman
Speaker 4: has been a director and an executive producer of The
Speaker 4: Simpsons since the beginning.
Speaker 7: Although we would say that the beginning those positions weren't
Speaker 7: really there, because if you go back to the beginning,
Speaker 7: beginning the Tracy Omens show, I was along with the
Speaker 7: Weiss Archer, the two animators those titles were amassed bit
Speaker 7: by bit later.
Speaker 4: And Bill Oakley. He was a writer during what many
Speaker 4: people consider the Golden Age with the Simpsons, when a
Speaker 4: lot of the things were invented. His big claim to
Speaker 4: fame is steamed hams.
Speaker 1: Superden and I hope you're ready for mouth watering hamburgers.
Speaker 4: I thought we were having steamed clams.
Speaker 1: No, I said, steamed hams. That's what I call hamburgers.
Speaker 4: You call hamburgers steamed hams.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a regional dialect. What region upstate New York?
Speaker 2: Really, I'm from Utica and I've never heard anyone use
Speaker 2: the phrase steamed hams.
Speaker 1: Oh, not a Utica. No, it's an alboy expression.
Speaker 2: The Simpsons is famous in many ways, both for predicting
Speaker 2: things that happened. What's the process when you're putting together
Speaker 2: a show and how do you come up with those
Speaker 2: kind of issues that might be considered predictive.
Speaker 7: I think it's all accidental. Are They're usually things that
Speaker 7: strike somebody funny and they write it and we have
Speaker 7: a big laugh over it, and then sometimes they manifest
Speaker 7: as true and we go, look at that. But it's
Speaker 7: not like we're sitting there like, Okay, let's get our
Speaker 7: box of predictions and see which one we're going to
Speaker 7: insert in this episode. Now, that's not the way it works,
Speaker 7: and oftentimes people forget that. What become quote unquote predictions
Speaker 7: were actually, if you will, low hanging fruit at the time,
Speaker 7: and I will point out the most famous one being
Speaker 7: Donald Trump. The Donald Trump prediction. First of all, we
Speaker 7: didn't actually represent Donald Trump physically on the show, as
Speaker 7: it was purported later when people sorted making stuff up
Speaker 7: about it. But it was around the year two thousand
Speaker 7: and most people don't remember, but Donald Trump at the
Speaker 7: time was running for president. He was running for president
Speaker 7: on the extinct third party, what was it called the
Speaker 7: Liberty party that ross Pero started again. We weren't there
Speaker 7: at a Ouiji board looking into the future. We were
Speaker 7: just making a joke.
Speaker 3: So you guys are being accused of being CIA agents, which,
Speaker 3: by the way, is a tell that you're not right
Speaker 3: because we're CIA officers. Agents are like the guys that
Speaker 3: we handle. Although that's a possibility, And what does that
Speaker 3: say about our society that Homer Simpson is like the
Speaker 3: all knowing, omnipotent CIA predictor. And I'm not confirming nor
Speaker 3: denying that you guys are CIA.
Speaker 4: It's a very complicated issue.
Speaker 8: I personally and many of us writers, especially from that era,
Speaker 8: have been accused of being part of the Skull and Bones,
Speaker 8: part of the Illuminati, or from the CIA, and only
Speaker 8: one of those is true. So, but the thing is,
Speaker 8: it's like, there's a couple different things about why would
Speaker 8: the CAA want to have comedy writers on the payroll.
Speaker 8: I don't think we have a lot of a lot
Speaker 8: to offer the intelligence community. One of the things that
Speaker 8: we've been accused of is telegraphing secret messages. Usually that's
Speaker 8: we're accused of that by people who are crazy, but
Speaker 8: we've also been accused and this most recently in that
Speaker 8: very tragic incident where that guy set himself on fire
Speaker 8: in front of the Trump trial. I don't know if
Speaker 8: anybody read his manifesto, but there were several pages about
Speaker 8: the Simpsons in there, and the insidious nature of the Simpsons,
Speaker 8: which I believe he was accusing of demoralizing Americans giving up.
Speaker 8: And I guess that's more of a would be a
Speaker 8: long term operation to demoralize Americans into not revolting against
Speaker 8: big corporations and the status quo, which is that's a
Speaker 8: legitimate concern. And if we did that, it's probably just
Speaker 8: because we were We want to be funny.
Speaker 2: I think the intelligen curtity would be glad to have
Speaker 2: creative comedy writers just because you guys are interesting, creative
Speaker 2: and clever and funny.
Speaker 8: Call me up then, Jesus, if you guys, if there's
Speaker 8: anybody at the intelligent community listening to this, you can
Speaker 8: send me at the DM on Instagram and you can
Speaker 8: sign me up.
Speaker 4: I'll do it.
Speaker 2: The one thing interesting is, as we see in politics,
Speaker 2: Americans don't even understand their system, and conspiracy theories often
Speaker 2: come from people who don't understand how things work, so
Speaker 2: they create some weird view of how they think it works.
Speaker 2: In fact, the CIA, it's an intelligence organization, but it's
Speaker 2: not an organization but prediction. Like, the point is not
Speaker 2: to predict what's going to happen in the future, because
Speaker 2: essentially the world's too complex and nobody can predict what's
Speaker 2: going to happen in the future. Our job is to
Speaker 2: collect foreign information, secrets that foreign governments are trying to
Speaker 2: keep hidden from us, that can help our policymakers make decisions.
Speaker 8: But I do think there's one thing that you could
Speaker 8: predict that's very likely to happen, which is that everyone
Speaker 8: is going to get stupider. That's one of the things
Speaker 8: that has happened over the course of the past thirty years.
Speaker 8: For example, in an episode that my partner John when
Speaker 8: I say we throughout this, I mean my partner Josh
Speaker 8: Weinstein and I. By the way, we're high school friends.
Speaker 8: We were in this episode called Margin Chains, and at
Speaker 8: the very end of the episode, the people of Springfield
Speaker 8: are given a statue of Jimmy Carter, which causes them
Speaker 8: to riot because he's the worst president ever and they
Speaker 8: hate him. And that doesn't sound so unbelievable now, you know,
Speaker 8: I think there's a lot of towns in America where
Speaker 8: the populace would riot if they were a statue of
Speaker 8: Jimmy Carter were forced upon them.
Speaker 4: And at the.
Speaker 8: Time, it was like, that's so stupid.
Speaker 2: I give you on thirty ninth, President, Jimmy Cattah, come on,
Speaker 2: bait History's greatest monster.
Speaker 8: We're making fun of people who are stupid and gullible,
Speaker 8: and unfortunately, I think a lot of the American populace
Speaker 8: is now as dumb as the people of Springfield were
Speaker 8: thirty years ago. So that's part of what we were projecting.
Speaker 7: And it's interesting because Bill, when I was even in
Speaker 7: high school, I was concerned with my fellow students because
Speaker 7: I thought a lot of them are you guys aren't
Speaker 7: too bright, and you guys aren't really paying attention. So
Speaker 7: I've been worried for ever since I was in high
Speaker 7: school of like, where are we heading intellectually in this
Speaker 7: country in terms of like people's education, and that we
Speaker 7: have at least one party who seems to be championing
Speaker 7: that because that sort of helps them.
Speaker 8: Now, that could be a CIA operation, but the CIA
Speaker 8: is non harnessing, or isn't it.
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: We actually are.
Speaker 3: When we were on the inside, we never knew what
Speaker 3: people's political predilections were, and we stayed away from them.
Speaker 3: And it really didn't matter to us as long as
Speaker 3: it was legal and authorized and moral.
Speaker 2: It was about protecting the American people, and we were
Speaker 2: focused overseas. Our job was to understand the countries and
Speaker 2: the politics of the countries we're in to try to
Speaker 2: help American policy makers be smarter about what they do.
Speaker 2: You guys, for whether you've met to or not. We're
Speaker 2: always focused on societal and cultural issues and things. And
Speaker 2: I think you can get a good sense of what
Speaker 2: America is like by watching.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, The Simpsons, David, and you'll probably know more
Speaker 8: about this than I with your travels. But The Simpsons
Speaker 8: is very popular in many other countries, and specifically, in
Speaker 8: my mind, Latin America and South America, where it's every
Speaker 8: fifth bar is a mose Bar ripoff and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: It's shown in Africa in some places, definitely, in a
Speaker 8: lot of places in Europe.
Speaker 7: It's immensely popular in England, France, Italy, Germany, Australia. So
Speaker 7: you have all my travels, you draw barred and like
Speaker 7: people are like very happy to meet you. Most people
Speaker 7: do see it as not only a parody of what
Speaker 7: a life is like in America, but that sort of
Speaker 7: modern existence, particularly in Europe, is pretty universal. It's very
Speaker 7: well understood what we're doing. And they don't think of
Speaker 7: it as so much as they're looking at a window
Speaker 7: in America, but they look at it as a sort
Speaker 7: of reflection of themselves, even though they're not in America,
Speaker 7: because as I say, Simpsons is mostly a parody or
Speaker 7: look at modern culture.
Speaker 8: The Simpsons family structure and their lifestyle. He's really taken
Speaker 8: out of like sitcoms from nineteen fifty nine.
Speaker 4: It's Homer.
Speaker 8: As people repeatedly pointed out, Homer is a man with
Speaker 8: a high school education who has a five bedroom house
Speaker 8: and two cars and makes a fairly small amount of money,
Speaker 8: and so his financial situation is really more out of
Speaker 8: nineteen fifty nine than it is modern day. So if
Speaker 8: people are seeing America through that lens, what they're seeing
Speaker 8: is in America of sixty or seventy years ago.
Speaker 2: Let's take a break, we'll be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 2: You guys did grow up around washingon DC. Bill. I
Speaker 2: know you went to Harvard and a part of the
Speaker 2: Lampoon and have been the people to often talk about
Speaker 2: that is having connections somehow of the Illuminati or to
Speaker 2: national security State.
Speaker 8: It's entirely possible that I'm a sleeper agent and don't
Speaker 8: know it yet. It's been a long wait. But I
Speaker 8: did grow up in that whole world. As I told
Speaker 8: you guys before the show, my dad worked in the
Speaker 8: House and the Senate, and then he worked at the
Speaker 8: Department Energy for twenty years in the Atomic Energy Commission
Speaker 8: and did have a.
Speaker 4: Q security clearance.
Speaker 8: I don't think I was used as part of some
Speaker 8: sort of experiment, but I guess I don't. I'll never
Speaker 8: really know. And the other part is the Lampoon has
Speaker 8: definitely given way too much credit for being like a
Speaker 8: skull and bones type of skull and bones. But there's
Speaker 8: a conspiracy is that people keep hiring their friends from
Speaker 8: the Lampoon to write for TV shows, and that's really
Speaker 8: the conspiracy.
Speaker 7: Also, by the way, this is touching on something else,
Speaker 7: because people talk about the predictions. I like to think
Speaker 7: that sometimes they're not predictions, but they're suggestions, and people
Speaker 7: take us up on them famously. I think maybe at
Speaker 7: one time Bob Igo was watching a Simpson episode, the
Speaker 7: one that posited the idea that Disney owned Fox, and thought, oh,
Speaker 7: it's not a bad idea. How much money we got.
Speaker 4: The episode was titled When You Dish Upon a Star,
Speaker 4: and Ron Howard pitches a movie idea a to Homer
Speaker 4: and the studio that he's pitching to is twentieth Century Fox,
Speaker 4: a division of the Walt Disney Company. And it wasn't
Speaker 4: until almost twenty years later that actually happened, But it
Speaker 4: was the.
Speaker 2: Beginning of the mergers area, so it's not surprising. Someday
Speaker 2: they're all going to be. There's gonna be one big
Speaker 2: giant company.
Speaker 4: About the other ones that also are possibly people followed
Speaker 4: your suggestion Lady Gaga's halftime show Cypress Hill performing with
Speaker 4: the London Symphony that.
Speaker 8: Was Now that's an example of a suggestion, because that
Speaker 8: was just a joke about how preposterous it was that
Speaker 8: something like that would ever happen, and now it has
Speaker 8: really happened, and I'm it certainly wouldn't have happened without
Speaker 8: that joke.
Speaker 7: Other bands have worked with orchestras. It's not like this
Speaker 7: is the first time that's ever happened, but that certainly
Speaker 7: was a suggestion. But also yet Lady Gaga was on
Speaker 7: our show. Okay, she was on our show. She saw
Speaker 7: the show. See putty thought that's a good idea. Maybe
Speaker 7: they should fly in.
Speaker 4: Could I ask about a few specific ones here before
Speaker 4: Biden and Kamala Harris were a team. There is a
Speaker 4: shot of them standing next to each other at the
Speaker 4: White House? Are you familiar with this one?
Speaker 7: On the West Side story one. How I can tell
Speaker 7: you is because I directed that thing. All I can
Speaker 7: tell you is that I had about I don't know,
Speaker 7: forty seven people to put into a line, and I
Speaker 7: just put them into line randomly, just TikTok, and we
Speaker 7: have a lot of work to do and we have
Speaker 7: a deadline, and out the door it went. And as
Speaker 7: far as the order was, I mean, we probably put
Speaker 7: some Democrats together and Republicans together and something like that,
Speaker 7: but that's as far as it went. Now, the idea
Speaker 7: that to say, hey see there, no, I'm sorry, that's
Speaker 7: a colossal coincidence. Sorry is, ladies and gentlemen, No conspiracies here.
Speaker 4: I guess you could argue that after six thousand episodes,
Speaker 4: just the law of statistics, certain things would take place.
Speaker 7: I would think so too. The thing that's really interesting
Speaker 7: are the sports prediction. Those are the ones that really
Speaker 7: do have is baffled. The other ones we can explain
Speaker 7: a little bit. But the sports predictions are pretty amazing.
Speaker 8: I think most of them, almost all of the ones
Speaker 8: you're talking about came from George Meyer.
Speaker 7: Who was that was the I was going to say,
Speaker 7: who George Meyer?
Speaker 4: Is talking about it?
Speaker 8: Obviously, now if anybody could get I don't know this
Speaker 8: for sure, but I'm fairly sure he's incredibly rich because
Speaker 8: of his ability to predict things, including gold, which I
Speaker 8: was told he invested silver. Okay, so yes it was silver, right,
Speaker 8: so he I.
Speaker 7: Believe he did silver investor.
Speaker 8: I don't want anybody to burglarize George's house after hearing this,
Speaker 8: so guys, they are be careful.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 8: But I think what happened was that he had he
Speaker 8: was he was a very savvy investor because he did
Speaker 8: have the ability. I don't know if he had the
Speaker 8: ability to predict, but he could certainly he got lucky
Speaker 8: a lot, especially in sports gambling as well in sports betting.
Speaker 7: He was a very savvy sports handicapper. He told me
Speaker 7: something very interesting. He was factoring people's psychology of how
Speaker 7: much they wanted their team to win as a factor
Speaker 7: in setting the odds, and he worked that into his
Speaker 7: mathematical calculation on out of that very deep savvy thinker
Speaker 7: and again not a prognosticator, didn't have a flux capacitor.
Speaker 7: I think, just had a brain capacity.
Speaker 8: I think also Sam was like that too, from what
Speaker 8: I heard. Sam Simon was one of the other creators
Speaker 8: of the show also was similar in that way. Is
Speaker 8: a big sports fan better and so forth.
Speaker 7: Both those guys were not only good big sports betters,
Speaker 7: but aren't and successful sports betters because they understood what
Speaker 7: was going on when the games they were betting. Yeah,
Speaker 7: and George I think, was the one who was responsible
Speaker 7: for all those Super Bowl sharing predictions. And then of
Speaker 7: course it's just the accidental ones that we just for
Speaker 7: a joke decided to pair two teams together in a
Speaker 7: soccer match and oh my god, look they're in the
Speaker 7: World Cup.
Speaker 8: If that episode aired twenty five years ago, you got
Speaker 8: twenty five chances for that particular pairing to show up,
Speaker 8: and you're going to get lucky one eventually.
Speaker 7: Oh how brilliant are they are?
Speaker 2: They?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 7: One set of twenty five times.
Speaker 2: Well, and you can also see things that clearly just funny,
Speaker 2: but then it happens and it's not really a surprise,
Speaker 2: like the whole Siegfried and Roy being attacked by their tigers. Yes,
Speaker 2: I can imagine that.
Speaker 8: That was in my scripto just because it seems Yeah,
Speaker 8: that's the joke. That's the joke, and it eventually came true.
Speaker 8: What joke would you make to as a layman, there's
Speaker 8: a tiger trainer, What joke would you make with tiger
Speaker 8: trainer the tiger attacks him. That's the number one thing
Speaker 8: that occurs to you to make a joke about a
Speaker 8: tiger tracker.
Speaker 7: It's a joke to make again the low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2: Nsay, listening to everybody's phone calls or whatever.
Speaker 3: That was my point as a CIA guy, by and large,
Speaker 3: we try to keep things secret when we have secrets, right,
Speaker 3: it's the whole point of a secret. If we knew
Speaker 3: who was going to win the gold medal and curling,
Speaker 3: why we would investigate that, I don't know, but we
Speaker 3: wouldn't put it on a TV show with a huge audience,
Speaker 3: and not when we think we know a secret, Hey,
Speaker 3: we know that there is WMD in Rock.
Speaker 4: We generally tell people that and go prove it. It's
Speaker 4: actually the other way around, and just say it. Yeah.
Speaker 8: I think a far more legitimate conspiracy theory is that
Speaker 8: we're having some sort of demoralizing effect on the nation
Speaker 8: as a whole. That would be more of a thing
Speaker 8: that it's true. Why would we Okay, I guess there're
Speaker 8: two more legitimate. One is that we're telegraphing information to
Speaker 8: agents like those stations, those encoded number stations that you
Speaker 8: guys use, right, We're somehow broadcasting information to agents through
Speaker 8: encrypted material on our show or even non encrypted stuff
Speaker 8: like that nine to eleven poster, which has been subject
Speaker 8: to so many theories. And the other thing is that
Speaker 8: more it's a more broad based thing, is that we're
Speaker 8: having some sort of cultural effect on the nation that
Speaker 8: some insidious large entity wants to take place.
Speaker 2: Damn you guys for ruining our nation because you succeeded
Speaker 2: very well.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I know, it's not terrible just to put
Speaker 7: some funny shows on the air.
Speaker 4: There you go.
Speaker 2: Let me ask, so, Bill, you mentioned a couple of
Speaker 2: about the nine to eleven poster. Can you give us
Speaker 2: a little background on that?
Speaker 8: Yes, David, did you direct that episode? David, you went
Speaker 8: to all those photos.
Speaker 7: Though I took those photos. This is of course, before
Speaker 7: you had the resource of the Internet. I happen to
Speaker 7: be recording for the road El Dorado in New York.
Speaker 7: I was dispatched down to the World Trade Center to
Speaker 7: take as many photos as I putt only the center
Speaker 7: and the locations, but the street across.
Speaker 2: But no.
Speaker 7: Jim Rearden directed that episode very hilariously.
Speaker 8: So this was an episode of The Simpsons that was
Speaker 8: the premiere of the ninth season. It was one of
Speaker 8: the last episodes of Josh and I produced and head wrote.
Speaker 8: And it's an episode where Barney drives Homer's car to
Speaker 8: New York and in the plaza of the World Trade
Speaker 8: Center and Holmeer asked to go to New York and
Speaker 8: the entire literally an entire act, if not two acts,
Speaker 8: if it take place at the World Trade Center. And
Speaker 8: so people obviously took note of that. But most importantly,
Speaker 8: the conspiracy theory revolves around this poster. Is a newspaper ad,
Speaker 8: a full paid newspaper add that Bart shows off in
Speaker 8: Act one. It's like, how are we going to get
Speaker 8: to New York? We can't afford to get to New York.
Speaker 8: He holds up a newspaper ad that says New York
Speaker 8: nine dollars on the bus line, and there's the nine
Speaker 8: and then there's a silhouette of the skyline of Manhattan
Speaker 8: including the two World Trade Centers, which does look when
Speaker 8: you see it like nine eleven, the nine dollars and
Speaker 8: the eleven I love to see New York.
Speaker 6: We could all go at the bus company's special supersitter
Speaker 6: fair nine books.
Speaker 4: This one's on me.
Speaker 8: And so the conspiracy theory goes that us, as members
Speaker 8: of the Skull and Bones Illuminati, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 8: we're broadcasting to our sleeper agents. Here's the target.
Speaker 4: Here is the date. They took it off the.
Speaker 8: Air for ten years, although now it's back, so it
Speaker 8: was an interesting thing.
Speaker 7: I would mention that that poster, though, was not designed
Speaker 7: by the writers. We just did a drawing of it,
Speaker 7: and I don't know who designed it, but just had
Speaker 7: the nine dollars and just had a silhouette of the
Speaker 7: New York skyline as it was back in that day,
Speaker 7: and it was not like discussed back and forth. Probably
Speaker 7: we just probably just did it. Really quickly, and it
Speaker 7: makes perfect sense.
Speaker 8: It's exactly what you would do. That's one of the
Speaker 8: most prominent conspiracy theories there is that one, as well
Speaker 8: as the Trump one, and the other things like that
Speaker 8: and the Disney one are among the most most prominent.
Speaker 7: But by the way, the other thing that really amused
Speaker 7: me about the Trump one is they took this thing
Speaker 7: that we did. We got it out very quickly. To
Speaker 7: our credit, we must have got that out in two
Speaker 7: weeks from the time that he went down, as John
Speaker 7: Stewart jokingly put it as Stair Force one going down
Speaker 7: the escalator of the Trump Tower. We got the parody
Speaker 7: out within two about two weeks later onto YouTube. But
Speaker 7: what happened was is some conspiracy theorist types took what
Speaker 7: we had done for that and posited the idea that
Speaker 7: we actually predicted not only him being that, but represented
Speaker 7: him going down the escalator at Trump Tower as that
Speaker 7: was in that episode. As if you look at that episode,
Speaker 7: you can clearly see that's not the case. But I
Speaker 7: would have to talk to people saying and they say, oh, no,
Speaker 7: that was in the episode. He said, no, it's not
Speaker 7: well that episode was made or we're still in the
Speaker 7: four x three format and it's not done digitally. It
Speaker 7: was done still on cells and you can see texture
Speaker 7: now with AI. People ask me, is this true, because
Speaker 7: something else happened. I think it was like the disaster
Speaker 7: with the Francis Scott Keybridge. Yeah, somebody sent me this
Speaker 7: image and I said, this is a fake image that
Speaker 7: do anything even remotely.
Speaker 8: But now using AI, you can generate almost any Simpsons
Speaker 8: scene in like about five minutes or less of any
Speaker 8: event that happened. And that was the Key Bridge one,
Speaker 8: David was the most recent and most egregious one because
Speaker 8: to the casual observer it really did look like a
Speaker 8: frame from the Simpsons of that bridge being hit by
Speaker 8: a giant boat. Many of them are funny, like one
Speaker 8: of what it was about March vacuuming the lawn. March
Speaker 8: that she's going to vacuum the lawns dirty, She's going
Speaker 8: to vacuum the lawn, and so there's just all these
Speaker 8: frames of March using different models of vacuum cleaners to
Speaker 8: vacuum the lawn. It looks completely unbelievable and it made
Speaker 8: me really crack up. Anyway, So some people are using
Speaker 8: this technology for good.
Speaker 4: For entertainment.
Speaker 8: Other people are using it to get clicks and drive advertising.
Speaker 8: To The Guardian, there was a January sixth to one
Speaker 8: too with Granz keeper Willie wearing that guy's buffalo hat
Speaker 8: or whatever that somebody made. That one was pretty obviously
Speaker 8: a fake.
Speaker 4: There is an episode where there is an image of
Speaker 4: people storming the Capitol from a while back. The episode
Speaker 4: was called The Day the Violence Died nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 8: What you're seeing in that episode is a parody of
Speaker 8: Schoolhouse Rock. If you remember school House Rock from the seventies,
Speaker 8: the episode the Schoolhouse Rock, I'm just a bill, And
Speaker 8: there was true that at the end. First of all,
Speaker 8: it wasn't drawn in the Simpsons style. It was drawn
Speaker 8: in the sky style of Schoolhouse Rock. And at the end,
Speaker 8: it's true that other bills, other constitutional amendments were running
Speaker 8: up the stairs of the Capitol. But it didn't look
Speaker 8: anything like the Simpsons. It looked like Schoolhouse Rock. And
Speaker 8: it wasn't people. It was amendments.
Speaker 4: Hey, who left all this garbage on the steps of Congress.
Speaker 4: I'm not garbage. Amnamma to be yes, and I'm Ema
Speaker 4: tob and I'm hoping that the runna Barby.
Speaker 2: Why can't we just make a law against flag.
Speaker 6: Burning because that law would be unconstitutional.
Speaker 4: But if we changed the constitution.
Speaker 6: Then we could make all sorts of crazy laws.
Speaker 4: Now you're catching on. There's a couple of others you
Speaker 4: might know about Homer at the Bat season three, not
Speaker 4: mad anyone.
Speaker 8: It's the sideburns, isn't it. I didn't really has embraced
Speaker 8: that joke to become part of his personalit. It's like
Speaker 8: the most famous thing about Don Mattingly.
Speaker 4: Now. The episode follows home in a softball team as
Speaker 4: they start to believe that they're lucky because of articular bat.
Speaker 4: This enrages of jealous mister Burns, who hires major league players.
Speaker 4: One of these players is Don Mattingly, who's benched for
Speaker 4: what mister Burns insists are unruly sideburns. A year later,
Speaker 4: during an actual game in nineteen ninety three, Yankees manager
Speaker 4: Stump Merrill points out that matting Lee did not cut
Speaker 4: his hair for the game, which leads to the player
Speaker 4: getting benched.
Speaker 7: Originally, the joke was he had been benched prior. This
Speaker 7: was not a prediction. This is an event that happened
Speaker 7: by Steinbrenner that I think had benched him for his sideburns.
Speaker 7: Somebody I didn't know, somebody.
Speaker 2: I forget what Steinbrenner did that a number, because you're
Speaker 2: not allowed to have facial hair.
Speaker 7: Right, I'm not a sportsman, But I do know that
Speaker 7: was happened before hid. I believe that Jim Ririden explained
Speaker 7: it to me, and he thought it was a hilarious joke.
Speaker 7: He just thought it was the best joke. So the
Speaker 7: idea of that being prediction is no, It's obviously a
Speaker 7: reference to something that happened prior to the episode.
Speaker 8: There's a number of those, by the way, David, that
Speaker 8: the most recent one that occurred to me was that
Speaker 8: pandemic one where a lot of people thought we had
Speaker 8: predicted COVID in that episode, that Saint margin Chang's episode,
Speaker 8: because when the fact, what we were referring to was
Speaker 8: the Hong Kong flu of nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy
Speaker 8: when we did that, so it was the first time
Speaker 8: many people had heard of a pandemic, and they thought
Speaker 8: we had invented the idea of a pandemic, which clearly
Speaker 8: we didn't.
Speaker 4: But that was another one, Yeah, a.
Speaker 7: Referenced to a past event. And then oh, but so
Speaker 7: this is a prediction. It's not laziness writing.
Speaker 8: History repeats itself, and the show's been on so long
Speaker 8: that we're getting to the point where history is repeating
Speaker 8: itself over and over again, and things that we referred
Speaker 8: to that we're old are now new again.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's take a break from the craziness just for
Speaker 3: a minute or two, and we're back season nine.
Speaker 4: Lisa Sachs ninety seven. Marge holds up a children's book
Speaker 4: called Curious George and the Ebola Virus, three years before
Speaker 4: the two thousand Bola outbreak.
Speaker 8: I wasn't involved in that episode, but I think that
Speaker 8: Abola was already a thing that people knew about, as
Speaker 8: with the flu. It's probably the first time a lot
Speaker 8: of people heard of that, and that thus they think
Speaker 8: the Simpsons predicted it rather than the Simpsons informed them
Speaker 8: of its existences.
Speaker 7: A thing you can think of also from the comedy
Speaker 7: point of view, the comedy writer he or she might
Speaker 7: just say, well, if you're going to have Curious George,
Speaker 7: n blank. It was probably one of those lists, right, Bill,
Speaker 7: because this is what we read.
Speaker 8: I think it was a book, and al I think
Speaker 8: this was an al Gene's script for Lisa's sex it
Speaker 8: was I think it was it was coming up as
Speaker 8: something that people knew that was scary and weird.
Speaker 3: I was in Sudan in nineteen seventy nine and they
Speaker 3: had something called greed monkey fever, which was renamed as
Speaker 3: a bowl, so it was like way back then as well.
Speaker 2: Reruns are so important for The Simpsons, right, so you
Speaker 2: can see an old one and say, oh my god,
Speaker 2: they're talking about what we're doing today, and so it
Speaker 2: is in people's faces when it comes up.
Speaker 7: We're getting closer to eight hundred episodes now, and after
Speaker 7: eight hundred episodes, there's going to be something that we
Speaker 7: just hit. I suspect has not as many episodes. The
Speaker 7: gun Smoke had a lot of episodes. Maybe that would
Speaker 7: have hit, but unfortunately took place in the Old West.
Speaker 9: So that's what I think.
Speaker 8: Also, this is the nature of the you be to
Speaker 8: talk about show more broadly, The Simpsons is one of
Speaker 8: the few things that America shares as a cultural reference.
Speaker 8: The media landscape has been so fragmented into two gazillion
Speaker 8: different media inputs for everybody all day long, and everybody.
Speaker 8: Most people remember certain Simpsons episodes because they have seen
Speaker 8: them so many times. So it is one of the
Speaker 8: few things that binds American society together is a knowledge
Speaker 8: of certain moments.
Speaker 4: In The Simpsons.
Speaker 7: Matt have the idea that here's a TV family that
Speaker 7: watches TV, and that was a great staring starting point
Speaker 7: because that allowed us to do a infinite number of
Speaker 7: parodies of TV. Because we're animated, we don't have to
Speaker 7: build a lot of sets. We just cross stuff, So
Speaker 7: that's an advantage. What I'm getting at though, is that
Speaker 7: after with this idea, and with this idea of this
Speaker 7: family observing current life and so forth, and talking about
Speaker 7: things and talking about futuristic things, yeah, we're going to
Speaker 7: stumble across things that kind of come true or make
Speaker 7: some sort of technological quote unquote prediction. Because that's the
Speaker 7: nature of the show, the nature of the writing. You
Speaker 7: can look it like other people in entertainment who've written
Speaker 7: science fiction. Star Trek kind of predicted these things, these
Speaker 7: cell phone things. That's what happens when people dabble in
Speaker 7: being futurists. And after eight hundred episodes, as I said,
Speaker 7: we're going to hit it a few times.
Speaker 8: I recall being told I think by Mike and out
Speaker 8: we got there. We don't put in contemporary references unless
Speaker 8: there's this really good reason for it, because we want
Speaker 8: people to watching the show twenty years from now and
Speaker 8: be able to get it.
Speaker 7: Briefly, we had a in the Simpsons movie. We had
Speaker 7: a reference to Nixon as a joke, and Nixon's.
Speaker 8: At evergreen topic. I'm going to say, I'm going to
Speaker 8: double down on that.
Speaker 7: He's not dated, not quite, because he took it out
Speaker 7: because it got no laugh. It just got to a
Speaker 7: look from the audience. They're like, what, it's something.
Speaker 8: They didn't wrong audience, but they didn't have a different audien.
Speaker 9: They hadn't.
Speaker 7: It wasn't that I would say, Bill, it's nothing. They
Speaker 7: didn't get the joke that there was no passion behind it. Okay,
Speaker 7: well you know what I'm saying. I can see that
Speaker 7: you have to make the right joke about him that works,
Speaker 7: But there's nothing the emotional passion of like love eight
Speaker 7: of Nixon is gone, yes, right, any more than people
Speaker 7: have love hated for like I don't know warranty.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 8: People know him now, people who know from Futurama. That's
Speaker 8: where his that's where his legacy lives is in Futurama
Speaker 8: and other and the projects that I'm doing, my projects
Speaker 8: for Audible, I have a lot of Nixon in them
Speaker 8: because they're nineteen eight their period pieces.
Speaker 4: Bill also has a podcast, Space nineteen sixty nine, which
Speaker 4: is brilliant.
Speaker 9: Thank you.
Speaker 4: I'll just plug this here.
Speaker 8: It's not so much a podcast as it is an
Speaker 8: audio book, and that's why it's but it's ten episodes
Speaker 8: available on audible dot com. Starring to Tasha Leone. It
Speaker 8: takes place in a universe where Kennedy did not die
Speaker 8: from his wounds, but instead had a revelation that America
Speaker 8: had to expand into space as quickly as possible. And
Speaker 8: now I am writing the sequel, Space nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 8: Look for that in twenty twenty five or twenty twenty six.
Speaker 8: Hopefully you can help us promote the living crap out
Speaker 8: of Space nineteen seventy two when it comes out.
Speaker 2: You guys have tried really hard to pretend you're not
Speaker 2: connected in some way to the intelligence community, and this
Speaker 2: of Kennedy, now it's just just sealed.
Speaker 3: Bit. So you guys get to ask one question each
Speaker 3: to CIA officers, truth or dares.
Speaker 2: You can ask more than one.
Speaker 4: Wow, okay, just not the age to go first.
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, oh, where do you get those cool spy cars.
Speaker 2: We didn't get cool spikers. We were trained before you
Speaker 2: go over season, depending on where you do get at
Speaker 2: the training to learn how to like spin cars and
Speaker 2: smash them and break through road backs and crash and
Speaker 2: burn and how to do reverse one eighties and all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. That was like everybody loved doing
Speaker 2: that because of course you never got to do it
Speaker 2: after that. The field and when you live overseas in
Speaker 2: a place where it's dangerous and you can't really bring
Speaker 2: a car, they oftentimes you'll get a car, but they're
Speaker 2: not fancy. They're meant. We're meant to be boring.
Speaker 7: And then in the background, that was the thing that
Speaker 7: always amused me up with these spy films is I
Speaker 7: thought you guys were trying to blend in.
Speaker 8: I have a question, and this may I want to
Speaker 8: make sure that nobody takes offense at this question, because
Speaker 8: it has been on my mind for years, and I
Speaker 8: know that this is a very sensitive topic and in fact,
Speaker 8: my partner are going to write a movie about it
Speaker 8: at one point, and everybody and it's more realistic than that.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry to say. We all know that the KGB,
Speaker 8: at least in fiction, had a lot of sexy female
Speaker 8: agents that would seduce men to get information.
Speaker 4: Out of them.
Speaker 8: Does the CIA also have that or do they just
Speaker 8: have to hire local prostitutes or do they have men?
Speaker 8: Do they will tell me what you know?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, they call it swallows is the program that
Speaker 2: the KGB used, and many of us who've been I
Speaker 2: served in Moscow, and there's a number of people who've
Speaker 2: traveled there and at night on your hotel door, you
Speaker 2: get knock on the door and they'll be a pretty
Speaker 2: girl or what have you. But in general, not in general, no,
Speaker 2: we don't use sex because the goal for us is
Speaker 2: to recruit a spy, a source who knows what they're doing.
Speaker 2: They're motivated, they want to work for us, they want
Speaker 2: to keep it secret for a long time. So what
Speaker 2: you want to do is recruit some guy in the
Speaker 2: Iranian Ministry of Defense who hates his boss or hates
Speaker 2: the system, and we continue to meet and they provide
Speaker 2: us insight, and they continue to move up over time,
Speaker 2: and they meet another CI officer and over time they
Speaker 2: become you know, the deputy head of the Iranian missile
Speaker 2: program or whatever. And we have sources inside and to
Speaker 2: do that, you have to have people who trust you
Speaker 2: and have and developed trust between the US government and
Speaker 2: the CIA and the person. And so the problem with
Speaker 2: using any kind of blackmail, whether it be sex or
Speaker 2: any other kind of black mail, is that people want
Speaker 2: to get out of it or there law enforcement. Oftentimes
Speaker 2: they call them instead of calling them their sources or
Speaker 2: their agents, it's a snitch or an informer. And oftentimes
Speaker 2: they will pressure people to provide information for a short
Speaker 2: period of time. Our job is to get for a
Speaker 2: long period of time to motivated people. And so we
Speaker 2: found that using any kind of black mail is essentially
Speaker 2: doesn't work. There are times when someone who is working
Speaker 2: for US or helping us and the terrorism side comes
Speaker 2: to the States and they want something like this. There's
Speaker 2: times when we can help them do that, but we're
Speaker 2: not doing that for We're not doing it for ourselves.
Speaker 2: We're not doing it to them.
Speaker 3: Interesting the agency, we're paid to break the laws of
Speaker 3: other countries. Right every sp andage organization its job is
Speaker 3: to break the laws of other countries, but not its
Speaker 3: own laws. So in CI we can't break our own laws.
Speaker 3: True story on sex. There was at one agent he
Speaker 3: was really important. So the agent comes to the US
Speaker 3: and he says, I want to get laid.
Speaker 4: I want to go to a prostitute.
Speaker 3: And the case Opster is handling him is, first of all,
Speaker 3: I don't know where to go. Second of all, I
Speaker 3: don't want you to get sick or arrested. So he
Speaker 3: went to the FBI and said, is there a place
Speaker 3: he can go where he's not going to get arrested
Speaker 3: or beaten up? And I guess the FBI said that
Speaker 3: these are places that you'll probably be okay. But then
Speaker 3: he went to our lawyers, and our lawyers said, you
Speaker 3: can't give him money to engage in the legal activity.
Speaker 2: It is illegal.
Speaker 3: So what they finally worked out is basically says you
Speaker 3: can give him a bonus. So here's two hundred dollars
Speaker 3: and a pack of condoms. Right, here's a bonus for helping. Unofficially,
Speaker 3: this is where the FBI said you might go. But
Speaker 3: that's as far as we can go. We do have
Speaker 3: some weird, weird rules around, like sexual activity for CIA officers,
Speaker 3: so that we're not blackmailed, but by Larnche No, not
Speaker 3: by lunch. We don't do it, doesn't.
Speaker 7: I just wanted to point out that how well Rocking
Speaker 7: and Bowinkle presented.
Speaker 9: I've seen that they're great. By the way, this is
Speaker 9: off the kill Squad. Bill Scott told me this, Bill
Speaker 9: Scott Bowinkle. Bill Scott, who was the head writer and
Speaker 9: the voice of bow Winkle and several other voices, wonderful guys,
Speaker 9: something of a mentor to me. He told me the
Speaker 9: story of I don't know what he was doing in
Speaker 9: Russia or visiting Russia for, but the guy who was
Speaker 9: going his passport saying wait you look on the cartoon
Speaker 9: show with Mousson's squirrel. Bill said.
Speaker 7: All I could remember is that he had a long
Speaker 7: time getting his passport clear for some reason. So apparently
Speaker 7: somebody did not like Boris Natasha Moosen's squirrel.
Speaker 3: So funny story. So I was one of the guys
Speaker 3: who was on a horse chasing bin Laden in the
Speaker 3: early days, right growing up in the mountains, and we
Speaker 3: were looking for bin Laden and Zawahiri, right, the two
Speaker 3: guys running. So when I first went in to see
Speaker 3: the chief of station, and I was about to go
Speaker 3: up country to chase these guys. I said, so chief,
Speaker 3: what are my orders? And he looked at me dead
Speaker 3: panted and said, kill moose and squirrel. Wow, official, we
Speaker 3: killed moose or squirrel. It was like we were unsuccessful,
Speaker 3: but we tried.
Speaker 2: It was like, those are the orders.
Speaker 8: I just want to ask one more question too, because
Speaker 8: I'm still I'm very interested in the whole number station phenomenon.
Speaker 8: Do you have any knowledge of what the number stations are?
Speaker 8: Have you used them? Shortwave stations that have recordings of
Speaker 8: people just going like four five all day long.
Speaker 2: It's it's still a very secure way to communicate. And
Speaker 2: so the Cubans still do that. That's using a one
Speaker 2: time pad. Spies have been able to use that for
Speaker 2: years and years. And the idea is you give people
Speaker 2: a pad of random sort of numbers. It's just a
Speaker 2: code system. And so what happens is you send via
Speaker 2: shortwave radio some and speaking goes on, I think goes
Speaker 2: on twenty four hours a day, someone just speaking, and
Speaker 2: then you give your source saying at certain times you
Speaker 2: go in and you listen to these numbers.
Speaker 3: Say.
Speaker 4: Theta burno.
Speaker 2: And if you have the pad with numbers, when you
Speaker 2: go on and listen, you then put the numbers that
Speaker 2: the person is saying underneath, and there's a thing called
Speaker 2: something subtraction the numbers on your pad. You subtract the
Speaker 2: numbers that they gave you under them, and then that's
Speaker 2: the number of the letter that you need, and then
Speaker 2: that's how you put together a code. So the FBI
Speaker 2: they could know that there's Russian in Cuba and other
Speaker 2: spies here that are being communicated with, and they can
Speaker 2: hear the numbers on a radio, but they can't stop
Speaker 2: the radio. They don't know what the numbers mean. So
Speaker 2: it's an effective way to communicate.
Speaker 4: There was a conspiracy about that.
Speaker 3: It was like two thousand and three or something like that,
Speaker 3: that l Jazeera that it's Chiron's underneath that if you
Speaker 3: read them correctly, that they were the same thing. And
Speaker 3: it turned out that it was completely untrue. Wow, conspiracy
Speaker 3: that was in all the newspapers. See how you looked
Speaker 3: at it, and it was debunked.
Speaker 7: I'll have to take all this information and work it
Speaker 7: into my next meeting.
Speaker 2: Please do really great to meet you, guys.
Speaker 7: Great to meet you. We'll see if we predict either
Speaker 7: of the future of the past.
Speaker 3: Or as we like to say in Cia five seven
Speaker 3: four three Too much information.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: There are a number of other predictions. In nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 4: they predicted that the Rolling Stones would still be on
Speaker 4: tour and there's still live is still amazing, That librarians
Speaker 4: would be replaced by robots.
Speaker 2: Legal pot in Canada, smartphones, smart watches, NSA listening to everybody.
Speaker 4: The Greek financial crisis. That was predicting two thousand against one. Yeah,
Speaker 4: faulty voter machines two thousand and eight. That was a
Speaker 4: Halloween Treehouse of Horror episode. I'll add that there are
Speaker 4: some predictions that haven't happened yet, that the Fox Network
Speaker 4: would become a hardcore sex channel, That Delta Burke and
Speaker 4: the actor who plays Major Dad would get divorced. That
Speaker 4: hasn't happened. They did predict Rocky seven. There was a
Speaker 4: Rocky seven, but they got the title wrong.
Speaker 2: There was a Rocky seventh.
Speaker 4: There was a seventh movie in the Rocky franchise.
Speaker 2: Who Do You Fight?
Speaker 4: It wasn't Rocky, it was the Creed.
Speaker 2: I guess there's Creed and there's Creed's kid. I guess
Speaker 2: we can call those connected.
Speaker 3: If they could predict the future, they'd all be like
Speaker 3: freaking richer than they are.
Speaker 4: It's like they'd know to Yeah, I got a feeling
Speaker 4: it worked out pretty well for them. Many I think
Speaker 4: they're doing okay well.
Speaker 2: The Sipton's episode was fun, and I hope we can
Speaker 2: do that again. I'd hope Stern can find more cool
Speaker 2: Hollywood people for us to talk to, because I'm getting
Speaker 2: sick of talking to you guys.
Speaker 4: Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'shay, John Seipher,
Speaker 4: and Jonathan Sterner. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. Mission
Speaker 4: Implausible is a production of Honorable Mention and Abominable pictures
Speaker 4: for iHeart Podcasts.