WEBVTT - The Shirtless Wonder

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<v Speaker 1>Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey guys, welcome to wind Down. It's just so happened.

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<v Speaker 2>We just so happened to have Mark here with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course Easton and Catherine and Riley. Everyone's on. Hey guys,

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<v Speaker 2>how you guys doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, let's get into it all right, So enough,

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<v Speaker 1>so we had our revelation this week.

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<v Speaker 3>Everybody's talking about it. Let's talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea what you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there was some posts this week in the media

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<v Speaker 1>about you having a new man in your life. The

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<v Speaker 1>name Ian has been out there. I don't think I'm

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<v Speaker 1>breaking any news here. He is a fitness instructor, I believe.

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<v Speaker 1>Not well, he sure looks like it. I mean the

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<v Speaker 1>description works currently ripped.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got gat a great body, yes, but.

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<v Speaker 3>He's not a fitness and struck. No, he's his own shirts?

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<v Speaker 4>Because yeah, that's like the big topic.

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<v Speaker 2>Does he ever wear shirts? Listen? That has probably been

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<v Speaker 2>the funniest thing that I've in my dms, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>like half the people are like, does he own shirts?

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<v Speaker 2>The other half of people are like, oh yeah, keep

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<v Speaker 2>it off, like his shirt, Like he looks amazing. And

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<v Speaker 2>then we were going to do a challenge on TikTok

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<v Speaker 2>and someone was like, challenge your boyfriend to not wear

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<v Speaker 2>a shirt for twenty four or to wear a shirt

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty four hours. And I was like, there's no

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<v Speaker 2>way he wouldn't be able to do it.

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<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't be able to wear one for twenty four hours.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know he because he works out and

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<v Speaker 2>you know he takes a shirt off and then he

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<v Speaker 2>just that's true. In his defense, he's like, Jane, you

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<v Speaker 2>keep the house at like seventy five dearies.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean I would sew shirt off too if I

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<v Speaker 4>couldn't your house.

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<v Speaker 3>Why if I looked like that, I would never wear

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<v Speaker 3>a shirt.

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<v Speaker 1>Why I'm a guy who wears a shirt at the beach,

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm not happy with anything that's going on here.

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<v Speaker 3>If I look like that guy, I'd never wear a shirt.

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<v Speaker 5>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's kind of why. Like I'm like, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't hate it, you hear. My favorite thing.

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<v Speaker 6>About it is that, like Jane's stories, it's like snowing

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<v Speaker 6>so heavily outside and then cut to the man not

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<v Speaker 6>wearing a shirt.

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<v Speaker 2>Literally, I love it.

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<v Speaker 7>I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think what's so funny too, is like when I

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<v Speaker 2>was I was talking to Catherine and I was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's starting to people are starting to catch

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<v Speaker 2>on the man and the reflection, and I was just

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<v Speaker 2>trying to keep it a little bit more because I

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<v Speaker 2>honestly didn't know, and not that I didn't know that

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't like him, but that we were dating. But

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<v Speaker 2>I just it's scary, it's scary to put it out there,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I was just trying to keep it close.

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<v Speaker 2>And but I was trying to figure out what photos

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<v Speaker 2>to put for the infeed, and I was like, Catherine,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone I've selected, he does not have a shirt on.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, I have to add some changed. So

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, Ian, I'm going just need you to

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<v Speaker 2>start wearing a shirt, buddy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so what can we know more about this situation?

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<v Speaker 3>Like we know, so what can we know? What he

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<v Speaker 3>does do? Is that allowed?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So he he is in private private equity. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>so he is a he's a former Navy seal, but

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<v Speaker 2>he's actually in the Navy Seal Reserve right now. So

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<v Speaker 2>he still has to go to Virginia or I believe

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<v Speaker 2>at San Diego to you know, every so often to

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<v Speaker 2>because he's still he's still a part of the Navy Seals,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's in the reserve. So if a war went off,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he said we would discuss because he would

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<v Speaker 2>probably want to go back and wow. Yeah, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so he was. He's been a Navy seal for a

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<v Speaker 2>long time. But now he works with another one of

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<v Speaker 2>his Navy seal buddies in private equity. So I guess

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<v Speaker 2>that they buy companies and sell them or something like that.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like totally, I like.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't like it seems like a better tax bracket than

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<v Speaker 1>fitness instructors.

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<v Speaker 6>So I like the sound that he could be like

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<v Speaker 6>in a meeting reviewing someone's portfolio and then just get

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<v Speaker 6>the call and he has to like put on a

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<v Speaker 6>parachute pack like go active combat.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean he's and then he's

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<v Speaker 2>also he's uh, he's he's really big into CrossFit too,

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<v Speaker 2>so he's actually training for the CrossFit games or open

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever, so he does that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm starting to feel a little insecure now now we

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<v Speaker 1>were getting into a weird area.

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<v Speaker 3>Now why he's a superhero.

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<v Speaker 4>For that's how all the men feel.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean he's yeah, I mean he's he's pretty What is.

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<v Speaker 4>It my husband always says, he always says something.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people call him Captain America likes or

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<v Speaker 2>some Rambow And he can hold his breath for like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, he can hold his breath for like four

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<v Speaker 2>and a half minutes or something crazy like that, talking

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<v Speaker 2>about because like in the Seals, like it's I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>I go. Do you realize that your girlfriend has to

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<v Speaker 2>plug her nose like when she goes into water? Like,

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<v Speaker 2>how does that make you feel that when I jump

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<v Speaker 2>in water, I'm plugging. I'm literally plugging my nose. And

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<v Speaker 2>yet you can go down there for four and a

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<v Speaker 2>half something minutes and hold your breath?

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<v Speaker 3>Wow?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, because have you ever seen like what seals

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<v Speaker 2>have to do to train? No, oh my god, it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, people die training to be a seal because

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<v Speaker 2>it's like the most like badass like training, And I

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<v Speaker 2>mean they don't, was it not? I think he's downstairs.

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<v Speaker 2>I can also I can grab him, but he.

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<v Speaker 8>Worms.

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<v Speaker 6>But just for our own confidence, can you please tell

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<v Speaker 6>us he has like horrible breaths, like a micro penis

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<v Speaker 6>or something.

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<v Speaker 2>But in the very beginning with the girl like my girls.

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<v Speaker 2>When I met him, I was like, Okay, he's handsome,

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<v Speaker 2>he's got a body to die for, like he's his

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<v Speaker 2>freaking navy seal. He's an act, private act, like he's charming,

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<v Speaker 2>he's nice, he's like kind, he's got a daughter, he's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he's a dad. And I'm like, he's got

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<v Speaker 2>a small I bet you he has a small penis.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it. That was like something has to be wrong

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<v Speaker 2>with him, like he has to have a small and

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<v Speaker 2>it's I said, it's very nice.

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<v Speaker 3>So what is something though? What does he do? This

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<v Speaker 3>guy was something that's annoying.

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<v Speaker 2>Or here's the thing, like I mean. So I met

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<v Speaker 2>him in October. So he's friends with Andrew East, Sean

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<v Speaker 2>Johnson's husband, so they work out together. They do like

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<v Speaker 2>this Dadder Days or whatever on Saturdays. And so when

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<v Speaker 2>I I went to the the I wasn't actually supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to be there, and he wasn't he didn't have his

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<v Speaker 2>daughter that weekend, but his his ex let him, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>have for the party. And so I go to the

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<v Speaker 2>party and I see, you know, this guy in an

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<v Speaker 2>orange shirt and I was like, oh man, he is kaute.

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<v Speaker 2>But obviously he's probably married, and you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>really pay like much attention to it. But long story short,

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew came over to me and was like, hey, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a guy here I want you to meet. And I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>we're at a two year old kid's party, Like what

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<v Speaker 2>are you doing?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, please don't try and set me up right now.

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<v Speaker 2>And he's like, no, seriously, he's a really good dude.

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<v Speaker 2>Navy see you like da la la la. He's like,

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<v Speaker 2>he's the guy in the orange shirt. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>shut up. I've been staring at him like this entire time.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you know, we ended up meeting and that's

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<v Speaker 2>how we met. And then we just you know talked

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<v Speaker 2>and and yeah, kind of the rest is history.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, well you're you're going to tell us something negative

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<v Speaker 3>about him?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, October. I this honestly, like, how do I

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<v Speaker 2>say this? It's been so nice not to have anything

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<v Speaker 2>that's like I've never started, like because you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>when I started with my ex two weeks and he cheated.

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<v Speaker 2>So with this it's like I don't have anything that

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<v Speaker 2>I can say like this bothers me or.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say okay, okay, so okay, there is one

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<v Speaker 2>thing that he does. Okay, Mark's like, please give me.

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<v Speaker 2>When he eats, he puts his teeth like on the

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<v Speaker 2>top of his fork and I can hear the sound

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<v Speaker 2>of it.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what I needed.

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<v Speaker 9>That.

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<v Speaker 2>And then he kind of eats like he's like a

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<v Speaker 2>mountain man. So I'm like, do we close our mouth

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<v Speaker 2>or like we do? I like that so now like

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<v Speaker 2>every time. So we were to eating dinner last night

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<v Speaker 2>and he like did it and he goes, oh, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>I heard that one.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was like, okay, we all, we all need to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be trained, and cause he was kind of like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I saw him like he had all the meat he

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<v Speaker 2>was making dinner and all the meat on the table,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, hey, babe, like next time, do

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<v Speaker 2>you mind putting that on because it's like the chicken

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<v Speaker 2>stuff is kind of grossing me out. And he's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. He's like because he's so used to He's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I eat dirt and I'm used to just preparing however,

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 7>So.

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<v Speaker 6>He's roasting like a broncho saurus rib over an open flame.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm not worried about the chicken.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I feel you know, I will get him

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<v Speaker 2>on maybe one day. He's he's he's he doesn't like

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<v Speaker 2>to be like in the spotlight, you know, like he's yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he's a normal dude, is a huge and he just

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of like you do your thing. I mean, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he's doing you know, the the CrossFit stuff, but he's

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<v Speaker 2>just you know, he just so enjoys it, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just I want to support him however I can. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think what the coolest thing about him is like

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<v Speaker 2>he's we just have a lot of fun together and

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<v Speaker 2>he pushes me to to you know, to uh just

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<v Speaker 2>stretch my limits on things and where I'm scared, like

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<v Speaker 2>he kind of pushes me and then where he you know,

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<v Speaker 2>where he falls short in some areas, like I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of push him to. So I just feel like it's

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<v Speaker 2>just like a really good It just feels really nice.

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<v Speaker 2>And I will say I definitely have tried to push

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<v Speaker 2>him away a few times, uh, just because I'm scared

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<v Speaker 2>of it, and you know, I I uh, it's I've

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<v Speaker 2>kind of been like what's her face? And how to

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<v Speaker 2>lose a guy in ten day? Like I've had I've

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<v Speaker 2>I've tried to how to lose a guy in ten days,

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<v Speaker 2>just because it's just I'm scared and I'm I'm scared

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<v Speaker 2>of and I was scared to post because I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be embarrassed. I don't want, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the same history to repeat itself. I don't you know?

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<v Speaker 2>And and but you know, Catherine says, this is dating

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<v Speaker 2>and you don't know the end results. But are you happy?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, do you? And from what I see, you

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<v Speaker 2>know he's an honest man, and but I, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>just get so scared. And there's there came a point

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it was like a month ago, and

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<v Speaker 2>he goes, why are you trying to push me away?

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, no, I'm not. And he's like,

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<v Speaker 2>you are You are actively trying to push me away?

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't. He's like why, And I just started

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<v Speaker 2>just bawling. And I was just like, because you're just

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<v Speaker 2>gonna leave, and you're you're gonna cheat, or you're gonna lie,

0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.839
<v Speaker 2>and and and he's just and and and then you know,

0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I have to apologize and say I'm sorry, that's just

0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:53.679
<v Speaker 2>my own fears and it's my own stuff and you've

0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:55.680
<v Speaker 2>done nothing for me to think that. I was like,

0:10:55.760 --> 0:11:00.240
<v Speaker 2>but it's just it's just scary, and I'm scared and

0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I and you know the amount of times he've had

0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.880
<v Speaker 2>he's had to like literally like look me in the

0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.480
<v Speaker 2>face and go I am not going anywhere. I'm not

0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.240
<v Speaker 2>going to hurt you. And it's like I hear it.

0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.200
<v Speaker 2>But then I'm like, I've heard those things before, and

0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.280
<v Speaker 2>so I'm scared of that because it never was followed

0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.760
<v Speaker 2>through last time. So of course you're going to let

0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.120
<v Speaker 2>me down. Of course you're going to hurt me, because

0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.200
<v Speaker 2>that's what happens with every serious relationship in my life,

0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:24.920
<v Speaker 2>from my father to my ex husband.

0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.760
<v Speaker 3>So what can you do to reverse this cycle?

0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Because it can you just can you kind of get

0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:33.360
<v Speaker 1>in the mindset of one day at a time.

0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.679
<v Speaker 2>Well and that yeah, and that's what I'm that's what

0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm having to do now, where it's like, you know,

0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking to my therapists about it and my friends

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.400
<v Speaker 2>and just going, Okay, he's not my ex. I cannot

0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.440
<v Speaker 2>put him in the same category as my ex. I

0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.600
<v Speaker 2>have to look at his actions and how he's being

0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.160
<v Speaker 2>with me, and but I mean, yeah, I have tested

0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.760
<v Speaker 2>him probably to the limits with you know, my traumas

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.680
<v Speaker 2>and triggers. But then I have to go back and go,

0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry that was my stuff and I feel really bad,

0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.680
<v Speaker 2>and you know, my therapist is even like, you know,

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 2>he's he's shown that like he's not going anywhere, but

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:05.760
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, you know, you got to you

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.160
<v Speaker 2>can't keep doing this pattern. So it's like, yeah, I

0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.439
<v Speaker 2>think it's just he said to me the other day

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.200
<v Speaker 2>we went on a run and he looked at me

0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and he goes, one day, you're going to know that

0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.440
<v Speaker 2>you can, you know, trust me and that I'm not

0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 2>going to hurt you. He's like, because I promise you.

0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.920
<v Speaker 2>He's like I He's like, you know, he's said all

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>this sweet stuff and it was beautiful to hear and

0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 2>it was so sweet, but he was just like he

0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of just like you know, hugged me and was

0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.520
<v Speaker 2>just like, I will not hurt you. And it's just

0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 2>like I just started crying because it's like he's in it.

0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Just I just feel like very understood in that in

0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.720
<v Speaker 2>those moments when he does that for me, right, because

0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.880
<v Speaker 2>he understands the pain. It's so hard to believe. But

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay, like today you're right tomorrow. I hope

0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.080
<v Speaker 2>so too. He's like, if you don't believe me today,

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>believe me tomorrow. If you don't believe in tomorrow, believe

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:51.839
<v Speaker 2>me the next day. If you don't believe me in

0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the next day, believe me the next day.

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.840
<v Speaker 4>And all we can do is show you good, you know, yeah,

0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 4>saying it doesn't really matter at the end of the day,

0:12:58.240 --> 0:12:59.440
<v Speaker 4>and all you can do is show you, and he's

0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.400
<v Speaker 4>showing you, Yeah, let them.

0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 2>And I have to realize that there's people that you

0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.560
<v Speaker 2>know are not like my ex, Yeah, for sure, and

0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.320
<v Speaker 2>that I deserve it. And that's my therapist, like, you

0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 2>deserve to be happy. I'm like, okay, and you deserve

0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>to be treated it. I'm like, but do I I.

0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Know, Catherine, Are we at all concerned about going so

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:37.959
<v Speaker 1>wide with this three months after meeting? I'm not, But

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:39.439
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's a lot of pressure at a

0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 1>relationship to be honest weekly and people and all these

0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 1>other things.

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:42.880
<v Speaker 8>I do too.

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:44.840
<v Speaker 4>But I think it doesn't matter. I think if she

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:49.679
<v Speaker 4>does it next year or five years from now or

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.800
<v Speaker 4>last week or whatever, everyone's going to have something negative

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:53.120
<v Speaker 4>to say.

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 3>It's not moving too fast.

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.160
<v Speaker 4>I don't think it's moving. It's not like they're just dating. Right,

0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.600
<v Speaker 4>What is moving too, asked when you got divorced at April?

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, yeah, I mean reover, right.

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.200
<v Speaker 4>But I mean my point is, why is there a

0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 4>certain timeline? Why is there a certain and they're just dating.

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.080
<v Speaker 4>They're not married, they're not engaged yet, right.

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.320
<v Speaker 1>I guess the publicity puts pressure on it. I feel

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 1>like it labels it as something maybe more than it is.

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:21.600
<v Speaker 2>So I think the only the one thing that the

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>publicity does for me is the if it doesn't work out,

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it's just another failed thing, and that puts on I'll

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 2>feel disappointment. But at the same time, this is dating, right,

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Like just like with you know, the whole j thing

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Like this is, you know, I have to date to

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 2>see who my person is and who I want us.

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.720
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, if if there's something that comes up,

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to stay with him because US Weekly

0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>wrote an article about us. I'm gonna stay with him

0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.600
<v Speaker 2>because you know, I like him and I care about him,

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.920
<v Speaker 2>and you know we're together. I'm not going to stay

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 2>with him because I'm like, oh, I don't want, you know,

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 2>to be embarrassed.

0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 4>Again or yeah. And I think that if you're the

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 4>kind of person that doesn't share as much as you do, yeah,

0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 4>maybe keep it to yourself. But like you love to

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 4>share stuff, you love, to show your life, you love,

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 4>and I think that it's hard for you to not

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 4>share him. So I think it's I think it's you

0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.680
<v Speaker 4>do what feels good to you. You don't worry about

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 4>what people say, and you just do you. I understand

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 4>that if y'all were to not work out, that that's

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.720
<v Speaker 4>going to be hard, But you're dating and that's part

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 4>of dating. And people don't have to know why you

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 4>broke up. If you do break up, you don't have

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 4>to show you know, it's just it's just you have

0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 4>to be able to live your life. Us weekly is

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 4>going to email me every day asking for something about it.

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 4>You have to live your life.

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.160
<v Speaker 1>And just does it freak him out because this isn't

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:44.800
<v Speaker 1>his world, So does it freak him out that his

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 1>face is everywhere?

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:46.400
<v Speaker 3>And all?

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 2>That's I think the only thing was like his daughter,

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't like the fact they used a picture

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>of his daughter just because that's you know, they didn't

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.120
<v Speaker 2>ask for that. But at the same time, he was

0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>just like, you know, I don't. He's like, I don't

0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 2>care about it. He's like, do you want me to

0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 2>delete Instagram? And I like no, Like, don't lee, You're intill,

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 2>like you know of your Like, we're just living our lives.

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 2>And I'm basically showing people that you can find happiness

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.840
<v Speaker 2>after pain. And if that's the message, if that's all

0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 2>that this relationship is going to show, which I hope,

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I hope not. I mean, I who knows, I don't know.

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, I want people to see

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:26.280
<v Speaker 2>that there is light after darkness, and you know, and

0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.240
<v Speaker 2>that's one of the reasons why I wanted to share.

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And again, I don't know what tomorrow holds. I don't

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.120
<v Speaker 2>know what the next day. I don't know if and

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 2>when we're going to break up. But I don't want to.

0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 2>I just want to enjoy the moment that we're in

0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 2>and then go from there.

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 4>And you don't want to live life like that, Yeah,

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.280
<v Speaker 4>I don't. I don't think that that's a healthy place

0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 4>to be. Well, let me just hold on to this

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 4>because of what's going to happen or what may happen

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.360
<v Speaker 4>or what like. I just don't feel like it's healthy

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 4>for you. I think that that keeps you in this

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 4>place of but what if he hurts me? But what

0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 4>if he cheats on me? And that doesn't allow you

0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 4>to live day to day? You're still living in this

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 4>future of what if he hurts me? What if I

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 4>have to have an s weekly article about us breaking up?

0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.480
<v Speaker 4>Like that doesn't allow you to just enjoy your life

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:07.720
<v Speaker 4>and live day by day.

0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Have you met each other's children?

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 3>How'd that go?

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:16.399
<v Speaker 2>Fantastic?

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 3>That's a big step.

0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it was one of those things where we

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>because that's important too if we're dating and our kids

0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:33.800
<v Speaker 2>don't get along or you know, how we parent kids.

0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's going to be does that work for me?

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Does that work for us?

0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:37.879
<v Speaker 6>Like?

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 2>How does that look? And I think to go to

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>that next level of a relationship too, I think that's

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:46.800
<v Speaker 2>something that you need to see. And you know, we

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of let them because they technically met the day

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 2>at that birthday party, right because I met right because

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I met his daughter there. I was like, oh, Hi,

0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.400
<v Speaker 2>it's my daughter, you know, so technically they had already met.

0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>So we just did it as like, hey, do you

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.240
<v Speaker 2>want to have a play date today? Mommy's friend that

0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.920
<v Speaker 2>you met at that thing's going to come over and

0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.639
<v Speaker 2>so that's how we kind of organically, Uh did that works?

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Daughter five, so same age as Jolie, and yeah, and

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 2>they just get along great and she's a sweetheart. So yeah.

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.199
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, but I mean, I'm sure there will

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 2>be challenges along the way with that and co parenting

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 2>and the schedules. I mean, our holidays are completely flopped,

0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.919
<v Speaker 2>so you know, there's there's times when I'm like, you know,

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.200
<v Speaker 2>I I don't it's hard for me to be here

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.080
<v Speaker 2>when I'm not with my kids, but we're here with

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 2>your kids, so it's like I need, you know. So

0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>it's just like kind of an and vice versa. So

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.639
<v Speaker 2>it's just kind of figuring that out. And but he

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.919
<v Speaker 2>is someone He's the first person post divorce that I

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.439
<v Speaker 2>have wanted to be in a real relationship with.

0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.920
<v Speaker 3>And it all seems good. Honestly, it seems wonderful.

0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 2>And he used to be a soccer player too, Mark,

0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.200
<v Speaker 2>So I mean everything you asked for a non celebrity

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>soccer player, you know, like a normal, normal guy.

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 1>I honestly, if you put your dream man down on paper,

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 1>I think you'd be very similar to this guy, A

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.440
<v Speaker 1>lot of boxes checked here, I know.

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 4>Even your boxes, Mark, I mean she made sure.

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I was like boxes, I know. So we'll see. So

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm not like, we're not putting pressure on it. We're

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.280
<v Speaker 2>not like we're just we're having fun. He you know,

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 2>he's pushing me in areas that you know, I feel

0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:36.200
<v Speaker 2>like I hold myself back and I just it feels

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:42.399
<v Speaker 2>really nice to laugh and just be happy again. So,

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.159
<v Speaker 2>however that is, it's I will say this, and if

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.639
<v Speaker 2>this does not work out, I've already survived one of

0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 2>the hardest things and one of the worst things I've

0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.679
<v Speaker 2>ever and hopefully we'll ever have to go through that

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.879
<v Speaker 2>any breakup. Moving on is not going to kill me,

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.399
<v Speaker 2>because if my divorce didn't kill me, this will not

0:19:59.480 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 2>kill me.

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.159
<v Speaker 3>So, and he's on the show next week. I think

0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:05.520
<v Speaker 3>we got them booked. I think he's ready to go

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.400
<v Speaker 3>one week from today. Is that what we said?

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:10.440
<v Speaker 4>Can we drill him on next week's episode?

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.800
<v Speaker 2>That okay? Talk about moving fast already having them on

0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the podcast, come on.

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 4>Right, all right, you're right, that's.

0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 2>A little on. It could be fun. Oh lord, I

0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.920
<v Speaker 2>have a lot of questions for him. Oh I'm sure, Lord,

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:25.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you're ready for that. That seems

0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:26.440
<v Speaker 2>a little fussed.

0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 3>It's going to be a big.

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 2>So good Oh my god, you guys like you you

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.119
<v Speaker 2>you therapist bomb us on. I'm like, this is not

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Janet and Mike podcast anymore. Guy, We're not doing that.

0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:48.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh lord, No, no, I'm not ever. I'm not ever

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 2>going back to that. I'm not gonna overshare like that

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:52.639
<v Speaker 2>because it's not going to.

0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.760
<v Speaker 3>Be anything to talk about. It's just gonna be happy

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:55.760
<v Speaker 3>and good time.

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:57.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like your teeth and your teeth annoying me when

0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.639
<v Speaker 2>you hit the fork. It's not like with something. Just

0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.359
<v Speaker 2>feel better about themselves. And did I mention he you

0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:11.360
<v Speaker 2>know he does my laundry and you know it's real sweet. Yeah,

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 2>does he do it well?

0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 6>Does he separate the lights from the darks?

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.119
<v Speaker 2>And the other day I was like stressed out, but

0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:18.600
<v Speaker 2>he was by the way it's like all the you know,

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.360
<v Speaker 2>the laundry, like, is it's done? I was like, oh

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>my god, thank you?

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.640
<v Speaker 4>What does he separate out the colors?

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:33.800
<v Speaker 2>And because you don't, I don't ever, So I don't care, man.

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.639
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, anyways, he's a sweetheart. And so to the

0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:39.920
<v Speaker 2>people out there that are having a hard time. Just

0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:42.480
<v Speaker 2>know that there's there is a light at the end

0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 2>of the tunnel, and if you go to another tunnel

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.560
<v Speaker 2>and you see light, it's okay. If it goes to

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 2>darkness again, you.

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:50.679
<v Speaker 4>Can be happy and heal at the same time. I

0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.919
<v Speaker 4>think that's important for people to realize you're that's.

0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 10>Really good, that it's really important, because I feel like

0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:01.080
<v Speaker 10>people are like, don't understand that, you know, so just

0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.120
<v Speaker 10>remember you can be happy that still be healing well.

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I told him too, Like I was like,

0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>you don't want to be with me and he's like, yes,

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I do. I was like, no, you don't. I was like,

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I got a lot of work still to do. And

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.080
<v Speaker 2>he goes, then I'll I'll help you along the way.

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:19.119
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, okay, there's a light at the

0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:20.760
<v Speaker 1>end of the tunnel and he is ripped.

0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:24.800
<v Speaker 4>Just keep your shirt.

0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Off there man, oh man, all right, well we have

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 2>an amazing guest coming on.

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I forgot.

0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.600
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I'm with all of this, Like, like

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.240
<v Speaker 2>I said, I've got a lot of healing work to do.

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm still dealing with co parenting with my AX and

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.720
<v Speaker 2>it hasn't been easy, and you know, there are things

0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 2>that I still have, you know, things that are hurt,

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's hard and trying to balance the two has

0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:55.960
<v Speaker 2>been very tough because, like I said, I still have

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.200
<v Speaker 2>a lot of healing work to do, and so that's

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.320
<v Speaker 2>where I fight a lot of That's where I fight,

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.040
<v Speaker 2>like pushing him away because I'm like, I can't do

0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:03.679
<v Speaker 2>this like that too much. And if well if my

0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:05.399
<v Speaker 2>ex hates me and you're gonna hate me, and like,

0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 2>so just I'm just gonna be alone. So you know,

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:12.680
<v Speaker 2>so I just I know that I still have a

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of work to do, and it is it's very hard,

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.760
<v Speaker 2>but I do follow this amazing woman. She does the

0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Beterrial Trauma Recovery Instagram and she does the videos for them, Jane,

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>and so we're gonna have her on and you know,

0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.280
<v Speaker 2>just walk through you know, the life of a narcissist

0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and gaslighting and abuse.

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 4>I'm excited shot to her.

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Here she comes.

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.280
<v Speaker 11>Hey guys, it's been and Ashley from the Almost Famous podcast.

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 5>It's that time of year where drama fills the air.

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 11>The Bachelor is back with an all new season premiering

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 11>January third.

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.000
<v Speaker 5>There's a new host, Jesse Palmer.

0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:57.880
<v Speaker 7>And a brand new bachelor, Clayton.

0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 5>Clayton is a Midwest boy, has that great smile, nice teeth,

0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 5>and he's really tall.

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.679
<v Speaker 7>Ash let's call it what it is. He's a beefcake.

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:07.520
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:11.720
<v Speaker 12>Well, Clayton seems to be a good guy though, and

0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 12>he can't wait to find love, get married, and have kids.

0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.240
<v Speaker 12>And he believes more than anything that his future wife

0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 12>is on this show.

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.120
<v Speaker 11>It sounds like a fairy tale but also a bit

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.960
<v Speaker 11>of an emotional rollercoaster because Clayton tells three different women

0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:28.720
<v Speaker 11>he's falling in love with him.

0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 5>Technically, he told one, I couldn't be more sure that

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 5>I'm falling in love with you, and another one I'm

0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 5>falling in love with you, and the third one, I

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:41.560
<v Speaker 5>am in love with you.

0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 7>You don't miss a thing.

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 5>It's from years of over analyzing everything that guys say.

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.760
<v Speaker 5>But his heart is in the right place, sure, but.

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.160
<v Speaker 11>Other parts of him not so much, as we find

0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.760
<v Speaker 11>out when he admits to two different women that he

0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 11>was intimate with both of them.

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:00.040
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I don't think it's gonna go over well, we'll.

0:24:59.920 --> 0:25:03.200
<v Speaker 7>Be breaking down it all. The famous podcast.

0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 5>Ben is married now, well, she's a mom well, change

0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 5>your opinions of what we think is acceptable single behavior.

0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:11.200
<v Speaker 7>Good question.

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.840
<v Speaker 5>Listen to Almost Famous on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 5>podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, so we're going to bring in Jane. She is,

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 2>she's incredible. She's a part of the Betrayal Trauma Recovery

0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:32.680
<v Speaker 2>podcast and then she also does the the Instagram. I

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:35.200
<v Speaker 2>don't know, do you watch the middle cap? You need to.

0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:39.480
<v Speaker 2>There's it's they're so it's so good. So let's bring

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Jane in right now. Hi, Hi, you know what, well,

0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>I watch you every day. That probably sounds really creepy,

0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Like no, it sounds really creepy, but also like, doesn't

0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:51.320
<v Speaker 2>she look like her therapist?

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.080
<v Speaker 4>Yes, that's crazy.

0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you look so much like art. We we have

0:25:56.359 --> 0:25:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a we don't go together. We don't do a couple

0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:00.919
<v Speaker 2>of therapy, but I mean sometimes best friends in need

0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 2>couple of therapy, but we don't. But you look so

0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:06.080
<v Speaker 2>much like my therapist that there's some sort of like,

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously I go to you know, your podcast

0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:12.600
<v Speaker 2>in your Instagram to you know, just get all the

0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:17.639
<v Speaker 2>knowledge and then to also not feel crazy, but you

0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:19.080
<v Speaker 2>just you look so much like her that. I'm like,

0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:21.840
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, there's just like a peaceful I'm like.

0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 8>Very like, oh, I'm glad. I'm glad that we can.

0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:30.080
<v Speaker 4>And her sweet voices. Sweet I know.

0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:34.639
<v Speaker 2>So I I, are you allowed to share some of

0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:37.720
<v Speaker 2>like your past at all or no? Like why like

0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:41.520
<v Speaker 2>how you got into speaking out and doing what you do?

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:46.120
<v Speaker 8>Yeah? Yeah, okay give it to us girl, yeah anonymously.

0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:48.720
<v Speaker 8>So yeah, I was. I was married for thirteen years

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:51.439
<v Speaker 8>and it was you know, a lot a lot of

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:54.199
<v Speaker 8>women who listen to our podcast and find us on

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:56.920
<v Speaker 8>social media have similar stories. So I was married, There

0:26:57.040 --> 0:27:01.639
<v Speaker 8>was there was infidelity, there was pornography, There was a

0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 8>lot of that just betrayal, and I thought it was

0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.159
<v Speaker 8>sex addiction. So I did. I went the sex addiction

0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:10.199
<v Speaker 8>route that a lot of us go on. You know.

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:13.640
<v Speaker 8>We went to c SATs, which are certified sexual Addiction therapist,

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:19.440
<v Speaker 8>and that model does the opposite of the BTR model.

0:27:19.480 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 8>We follow the trauma model, which is this is abuse.

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:24.960
<v Speaker 8>So if this is happening to you, you are a

0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:28.159
<v Speaker 8>trauma victim, and there's a perpetrator and a victim in

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 8>that model versus the sex addiction model, which says, you know,

0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:36.879
<v Speaker 8>you need couples therapy, there's communication issues. He is, you know,

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.399
<v Speaker 8>the perpetrator, the one who is cheating or the one

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.399
<v Speaker 8>who is lying, or as doctor Omarmon Wallach calls it,

0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:45.679
<v Speaker 8>has a secret sexual basement. This person is a victim,

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:47.960
<v Speaker 8>and so they need to almost like they're sick. And

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:49.639
<v Speaker 8>so it's like it's almost like your husband is a

0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:52.240
<v Speaker 8>cancer victim, and it's your job to make life comfortable

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:54.640
<v Speaker 8>for him and to coddle him, to give him more

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.439
<v Speaker 8>sex and to be more attractive so that he's not

0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:00.600
<v Speaker 8>tempted to deviate. And this can see, this can be

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:03.679
<v Speaker 8>very difficult for women in faith communities. You know, we

0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:05.760
<v Speaker 8>have a lot of women in the BTR community who

0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 8>are you know, either extremely indoctrinated into their religious beliefs

0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:13.320
<v Speaker 8>or their married to pastors or other forms of clergy.

0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 8>That's like a terrible hole to dig yourself out of.

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:20.080
<v Speaker 8>So in my in my experience eventually going down this

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 8>rabbit hole of sex addiction, trying so hard to make

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 8>myself exactly what I thought I needed to be, I

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:32.400
<v Speaker 8>I eventually started to identify emotional abuse patterns of emotional abuse.

0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 8>And the more I tried to explain that to our therapists.

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.440
<v Speaker 8>The more crazy I felt, the more gas my therapist

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 8>began gaslighting me, telling me that I was, you know,

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.560
<v Speaker 8>finding fault, that I was not meeting my husband's needs.

0:28:46.960 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 8>And that's when I started googling my symptoms, you know,

0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:51.240
<v Speaker 8>And I think that that's a huge indicator. When you

0:28:51.320 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 8>start googling your symptoms, googling what other people are doing

0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 8>in your relationship, that's a big sign that something is

0:28:56.960 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 8>really wrong. And that's when I started to find BTR

0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 8>and I was like, oh my gosh, what the heck

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 8>is betrayal trauma? I'd never heard that phrase before in

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 8>my life. And I started listening to the podcast. I

0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 8>actually don't do the podcast and does.

0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 2>She's a sepoet and was also on wind Down a

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:15.400
<v Speaker 2>few weeks ago and choose amazing. So if you haven't

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:17.600
<v Speaker 2>heard that episode, definitely go back to listen to that one.

0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:21.600
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, and using you know, using the BTR podcast as

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 8>well as other resources. I'm an avid reader, and I

0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 8>started reading other books that were super helpful. They're on

0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:29.920
<v Speaker 8>our website as well, BTR dot org slash books. We

0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:32.280
<v Speaker 8>curate these books and make sure that there's nothing in

0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:36.360
<v Speaker 8>because I mean, there's so many books out there about betrayal, trauma, infidelity,

0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:40.160
<v Speaker 8>the you know, domestic abuse, covert abuse, and there's a

0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:43.040
<v Speaker 8>lot of victim blaming language in these books. You'll read them,

0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 8>you'll get a couple chapters in you're like, oh, my gosh,

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:46.600
<v Speaker 8>this explains my story, and then all of a sudden,

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 8>like and you're codependent, and you're like, I just want

0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 8>something that will help me. But so we read these books,

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:55.640
<v Speaker 8>we make sure that there's nothing in there that's going

0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 8>to hurt you, and then we put it on our list.

0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:01.200
<v Speaker 8>So anyway, I started reading and learn working with BTR

0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 8>coaches and finally figuring out that there wasn't just not

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:08.920
<v Speaker 8>just to downplay it, but there wasn't just sex, you know,

0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 8>sexual deviation and sexual acting out in my marriage. There

0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 8>was also emotional abuse, psychological abuse, sexual abuse, and coercion,

0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.240
<v Speaker 8>and there was even physical abuse that I had not

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 8>been able to see when I was in the marriage.

0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:23.880
<v Speaker 8>And so for me, in my life, one of the

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 8>most difficult things I've ever had to do was look

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:28.240
<v Speaker 8>at in the eyes and be like, I am a

0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:31.520
<v Speaker 8>victim of domestic abuse. I mean the shame that you

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.760
<v Speaker 8>feel when you recognize that the fear of knowing I'm

0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 8>gonna have to do something about this. You know, I

0:30:36.880 --> 0:30:39.640
<v Speaker 8>have children as well that I share with my ex husband,

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.520
<v Speaker 8>so you know, navigating that, realizing I'm gonna have to

0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 8>face the family court system, it was overwhelming, but I

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 8>was able to use BTR resources. I was able to

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 8>use We really love Tina Swyn from One Mom's Battle.

0:30:52.160 --> 0:30:56.080
<v Speaker 8>She's also on Instagram. Using those resources, there were a

0:30:56.120 --> 0:31:00.480
<v Speaker 8>lot of other I don't just powerful moments for myself

0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:02.760
<v Speaker 8>of just regaining my sense of self that helped me

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:04.800
<v Speaker 8>to kind of get through to the other end. And

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 8>then I've always been just by I'm a writer. I've

0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:11.719
<v Speaker 8>been writing for a while just for different organizations, and

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 8>so I kind of like made my way into BTR

0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:18.160
<v Speaker 8>by continuously commenting on their different articles, just different things

0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:19.800
<v Speaker 8>I thought that they should tweak or make better. And

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 8>eventually and reached out to me and said, look, you

0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 8>just want to write for us. You keep telling us

0:31:24.080 --> 0:31:25.720
<v Speaker 8>we should do things better. And I was like, ah, sure,

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:28.080
<v Speaker 8>So that's kind of how I how I started with BTR.

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. And how are you now like with your

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:32.719
<v Speaker 2>do you still kind of go because I feel like

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 2>and which is why I reached out to you because

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I was sending her some screenshots of me and my accent.

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I feel crazy, like and I'm like

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, does this Like I'm like, I'm struggling,

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:45.400
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just like I need to like reach out

0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:48.440
<v Speaker 2>to someone because I'm like, I, this is so hard

0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's and I go back and like this like

0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:53.000
<v Speaker 2>it's this, it's this awful cycle, you know. But I

0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.680
<v Speaker 2>also realized that I one of my issues but and

0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 2>almost because I have to, because the co parenting is

0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:01.480
<v Speaker 2>like I engage and that's like my biggest issue is that,

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:02.720
<v Speaker 2>like I have to stop engaging.

0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 8>It's so difficult. I think that. And that's the nature

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:09.400
<v Speaker 8>of this kind of really covert abuse is that it

0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:12.680
<v Speaker 8>makes you question reality all the time. You know, you're

0:32:12.680 --> 0:32:15.560
<v Speaker 8>always wondering, am I actually crazy? Am I the crazy one?

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 8>Am I starting this? Am I the abuser? And I

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 8>just want to say, you know, the fact that you're

0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:23.520
<v Speaker 8>questioning that, the fact that you care about that, indicates

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.920
<v Speaker 8>that it's not you. Abusers don't care about how their

0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:29.760
<v Speaker 8>behavior affects other people, only to the extent of how

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:32.880
<v Speaker 8>that's going to affect their image. So they might be like,

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 8>oh my gosh, I freaked out. You know, they might

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:37.520
<v Speaker 8>drop their guard for a second and have a complete

0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 8>freak out yell at everybody, you know, and then they're

0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:43.080
<v Speaker 8>like they will self reflect like, oh my gosh, I

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:46.240
<v Speaker 8>just showed them that I'm a psycho. Now this person's

0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:48.840
<v Speaker 8>going to think I'm crazy. This it might affect my

0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:51.400
<v Speaker 8>income in some way, you know, something like that, but

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 8>not I hurt my family, I hurt my ex wife,

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 8>I hurt her heart by scaring her. They don't do that,

0:32:57.680 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 8>but we do, you know, we care about how it

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.480
<v Speaker 8>hurts other peoples feeling. So just keep going back to that,

0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:05.239
<v Speaker 8>keep going back to intent. You might do things that

0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 8>are not in your character. You might do things that

0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:09.640
<v Speaker 8>are not who you are, and you might go back

0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:11.080
<v Speaker 8>and be like, oh my gosh, it's me. I'm crazy.

0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:16.720
<v Speaker 8>It's not though, it's not. You're reacting irrationally, abnormally to

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:20.600
<v Speaker 8>an abnormal situation, which is healthy. That's correct.

0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:22.560
<v Speaker 2>You know what's so interesting about what you just said too,

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:25.040
<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, you know, at one point he was like, well,

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:27.520
<v Speaker 2>I've I've that. One day I came over and was empathetic,

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like that was the morning after we had

0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:33.440
<v Speaker 2>that big incident in the house which I can't share,

0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:36.120
<v Speaker 2>but like where he kind of went crazy, And that

0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:38.360
<v Speaker 2>was that afternoon where he was like, I'm sorry, it's

0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:40.920
<v Speaker 2>like because they want to be worried about his image.

0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 4>His image.

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And I was like, oh my gosh, like

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:44.800
<v Speaker 2>that just like totally clicked when you said that.

0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:47.120
<v Speaker 4>He said that one morning, I was.

0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know there's that too. What how do

0:33:51.880 --> 0:33:54.760
<v Speaker 2>you deal though with, you know, co parenting with someone

0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:59.560
<v Speaker 2>that has well that because it's narcissistic and has her

0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:01.760
<v Speaker 2>and has no empathy.

0:34:01.880 --> 0:34:04.480
<v Speaker 8>That's it's really hard to navigate. I think that. I mean,

0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:06.520
<v Speaker 8>there's a few key things. So number one, you're gonna

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:11.279
<v Speaker 8>want to remember that it's important that you operate remembering

0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 8>the legal system does not favor victims, so unfortunately you

0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:18.640
<v Speaker 8>kind of have to play their game. And so it

0:34:18.680 --> 0:34:21.040
<v Speaker 8>would be ideal, it would be amazing if you just

0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:23.719
<v Speaker 8>never had to see them again, drop off, pick up,

0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:26.040
<v Speaker 8>not speak to them, but you are going to have

0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 8>to communicate with them. So one of the things that

0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 8>we advocate at BTR is that you just have one

0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 8>mode of communication. So there's a lot of apps that

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.319
<v Speaker 8>help you with this. Things like talking parents are a

0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:38.680
<v Speaker 8>family wizard. I think Wyneth Paltrow made one called fair

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:42.239
<v Speaker 8>fa y r. And these apps are cool because the

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.759
<v Speaker 8>communication you have with you with your ex is quote admissible,

0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:50.680
<v Speaker 8>and so everything that you communicate between yourself and your

0:34:50.719 --> 0:34:52.840
<v Speaker 8>ex can be used in court. So you want to

0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:54.759
<v Speaker 8>make sure that as you're talking to your ex through

0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:57.480
<v Speaker 8>these that you're not doing anything that you wouldn't want

0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:00.480
<v Speaker 8>to judge to read. And the cool thing about that

0:35:00.600 --> 0:35:02.239
<v Speaker 8>is that you can really kind of you can take

0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:03.920
<v Speaker 8>a pause, you can take a minute and think, and

0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 8>you can be like, all right, I want to be

0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:07.239
<v Speaker 8>strategic about this. I want to make sure that what

0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:12.680
<v Speaker 8>I'm writing here reflects not my traumatized, overwhelmed really trigger itself,

0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 8>because he might say something like I want to buy Mary,

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:18.840
<v Speaker 8>our daughter, a purple backpack, and to a judge, this

0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:20.520
<v Speaker 8>makes him look like a great dad. But you have

0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:23.560
<v Speaker 8>some kind of backstory where there's something really triggering about

0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:26.439
<v Speaker 8>purple backpacks, you know, and he knows that, and he

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 8>knows it's going to send you in a spiral. But

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.799
<v Speaker 8>instead of being like you sichoh, I hate you so much,

0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:33.880
<v Speaker 8>why would you bring up a purple backpack. I hate you.

0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:35.560
<v Speaker 8>You're breaking my heart. You know, instead of doing that,

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:39.320
<v Speaker 8>you can be like wonderful, thanks Todd, you're the best

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:41.840
<v Speaker 8>and send it. And then you call your best friend

0:35:41.880 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 8>and you freak out and you don't can get the

0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:47.719
<v Speaker 8>same outfit before days and you deal with your trauma, right,

0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:52.160
<v Speaker 8>But you have shown the court system and your ex

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 8>that he doesn't have the same kind of power over

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.880
<v Speaker 8>you he once had. And because the court system is looking,

0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:00.160
<v Speaker 8>you know, in the event that you end up going

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:02.719
<v Speaker 8>back to court, which which unfortunately does happen quite a

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:05.359
<v Speaker 8>bit in these situations, because they're constantly they like it,

0:36:05.440 --> 0:36:07.839
<v Speaker 8>you know, they like the conflict. In the event that

0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:11.480
<v Speaker 8>that happens, the courts are looking for two high conflict individuals.

0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:14.120
<v Speaker 8>They want the back that they don't want it. But

0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:17.840
<v Speaker 8>they're expecting this back and forth to really immature people.

0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:19.880
<v Speaker 8>They just hate each other, and that's what they're expecting.

0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:22.760
<v Speaker 8>Your job is to show I'm not part of this dynamic.

0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:25.319
<v Speaker 8>He's a psycho. I'm not part of this dynamic. And

0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:28.719
<v Speaker 8>you don't show them that by constantly trying to expose him.

0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 8>You just show it by being yourself, by being your authentic, warm,

0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:35.360
<v Speaker 8>stable self. Given me enough rope, he's going to hang himself,

0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:38.879
<v Speaker 8>and you can really show that through your communication with him.

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:42.840
<v Speaker 2>You know what I think I was. We're just like

0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:45.920
<v Speaker 2>not good right now, and it's frustrating because you know,

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:48.160
<v Speaker 2>my friends have seen me try to have a good

0:36:48.200 --> 0:36:52.840
<v Speaker 2>co parenting situation, and I think words that have been spoken.

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, as much as I dislike you on many levels,

0:36:56.920 --> 0:37:01.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I would never say that to my to anybody,

0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:03.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's like it's like the I'm like, the words

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:05.680
<v Speaker 2>that you're saying right now are so incredibly hurtful that

0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I don't understand. And but then I you know,

0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:09.799
<v Speaker 2>I cry to my friends. I'm a therapist, and I'm

0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:11.880
<v Speaker 2>like I don't and then they're like, why do you

0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:16.680
<v Speaker 2>care if someone has been so narcissistic and you know, cheating,

0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:18.239
<v Speaker 2>It's like, why do you care? And I'm like I do,

0:37:18.360 --> 0:37:20.399
<v Speaker 2>and like, I don't know if it's it's if it's

0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:23.000
<v Speaker 2>the abuse piece or if I'm like, but every time

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned abuse, like he's like he laughs at me

0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:27.879
<v Speaker 2>about it, and then that makes me then feel even

0:37:27.920 --> 0:37:30.200
<v Speaker 2>more crazy because I'm like, but it was like, whether

0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:34.319
<v Speaker 2>it was all the above, like it was still form

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.279
<v Speaker 2>of and then he's like, well, you know you said

0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:38.120
<v Speaker 2>things to me too where you did this, and so

0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:40.280
<v Speaker 2>then I'm like, okay, well maybe then I did deserve

0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 2>that because of X, Y and Z. So then it's

0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:45.799
<v Speaker 2>just like this constant like and then I'm like, well,

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:48.319
<v Speaker 2>and then I want, like the abuser to like me,

0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:50.319
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, why why am I trying to get

0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:54.399
<v Speaker 2>his approval and his He's never liked me, he's never

0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:56.400
<v Speaker 2>cared about me. He orady wouldn't have done X, Y

0:37:56.440 --> 0:37:58.359
<v Speaker 2>and Z. So I'm like and I'm like, I don't

0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't have the answer, Like I feel like I'm

0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:01.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm just stuck in that area, like why do I

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:05.919
<v Speaker 2>care or want his approval? Maybe because I never got

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:09.600
<v Speaker 2>it or maybe because I'm like hello, I plague like please,

0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:11.279
<v Speaker 2>like I'm deserving of it, Like why have you never

0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 2>loved me the way that?

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:12.400
<v Speaker 9>Like?

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:14.600
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, like do you have any insight?

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 2>Because I literally yeah, therapists are like hands up, well, well, a.

0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:21.640
<v Speaker 8>Lot of what you're asking has to do with how

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.480
<v Speaker 8>he thinks, and it's really important. Patricia Evans talks about

0:38:24.480 --> 0:38:27.960
<v Speaker 8>this in her book The verbally abusive relationship. Understand that

0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:31.680
<v Speaker 8>you are operating in one reality. He's operating in a

0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 8>completely different reality. In your reality. When you've harmed somebody,

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:37.279
<v Speaker 8>you want to know. For example, if you harm your

0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:39.480
<v Speaker 8>best friend and she's like, hey, look you hurt me,

0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:40.839
<v Speaker 8>you want to be like, Hey, what did I do?

0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:43.560
<v Speaker 8>Tell me how it felt, tell me what happened, because

0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:45.680
<v Speaker 8>you want to fully apologize for that. You want to

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:48.799
<v Speaker 8>clear all that out, and then I guarantee you a

0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:50.919
<v Speaker 8>week from then. You're like, hey, are you feeling still hurt?

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:52.560
<v Speaker 8>Can you talk to me about it so much? She'd

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 8>be like, oh my gosh, Janna, drop it. It's fine.

0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:55.879
<v Speaker 8>You'd be like okay, and then you know two muths

0:38:55.880 --> 0:38:57.440
<v Speaker 8>on the raadi and be like, okay, but are you

0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 8>do you really forgive me? Because you care? Because that's

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:04.920
<v Speaker 8>how that's the reality that healthy, normal people live in. Okay,

0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:07.400
<v Speaker 8>you because you live in that reality. Because we are

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:10.000
<v Speaker 8>in this reality, we can study and we can learn

0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 8>and we can get PhDs on how these how abusive

0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.360
<v Speaker 8>people think? We cannot think that way though, our brains

0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 8>cannot go there, and so your brain is trying so

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.960
<v Speaker 8>hard to wrap itself around the fact that he just

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:25.279
<v Speaker 8>doesn't care. But you can't. You can't understand it. And

0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 8>so to you, it's like, look, if I done what

0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:30.680
<v Speaker 8>you did, I would want to apologize. I would want

0:39:30.719 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 8>to give you closure. I would want to you know,

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:36.120
<v Speaker 8>shake hands and walk away. I mean, you birthed his children.

0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:38.240
<v Speaker 8>You guys were together for a long time.

0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:40.879
<v Speaker 2>Well, and he has like and he said, like, I've

0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:43.440
<v Speaker 2>apologized a million times. I'm done apologizing. But I was like,

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 2>but you haven't apologized, and you haven't owned the ward

0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:49.760
<v Speaker 2>that you were abusive. And that's the piece that I missing.

0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I need to I need to hear you say not

0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:54.239
<v Speaker 2>because of X, Y and Z, or like I just

0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:56.320
<v Speaker 2>need you to say I'm sorry that I was abusive,

0:39:57.680 --> 0:40:00.640
<v Speaker 2>whether mentally all you know, just of it, just like

0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:02.799
<v Speaker 2>I just need you to for some reason. It's like

0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:04.680
<v Speaker 2>because now that I have done the research, I'm like, wow,

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:07.279
<v Speaker 2>that was mentally abusive, that was emotionally or that was

0:40:07.320 --> 0:40:10.080
<v Speaker 2>financially abusive or you know, and it's like he just

0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:12.200
<v Speaker 2>will not take ownership of that. And it's like I

0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 2>have a hard time. I just have a heard because

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:19.400
<v Speaker 2>then I just feel like crazy for wanting that. I

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:20.920
<v Speaker 2>guess and.

0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:24.800
<v Speaker 8>It's not enough that everybody else affirms it and tells

0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:27.160
<v Speaker 8>you and books and therapists and everyone else. You want

0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:30.279
<v Speaker 8>it from the perpetrator because that's what normal people do,

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:34.759
<v Speaker 8>that's what healthy people do. And I think that you know,

0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:37.640
<v Speaker 8>it's going to take some acceptance just to realize you're

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:39.759
<v Speaker 8>never going to get it from him. He will never

0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 8>validate that, he will never give you that kind of closure.

0:40:43.280 --> 0:40:44.799
<v Speaker 8>That kind of closure is going to have to come

0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:47.920
<v Speaker 8>from you accepting reality for what it is. And when

0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:50.920
<v Speaker 8>you've been gas lit for so long and betrayed for

0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.080
<v Speaker 8>I mean betrayal, it selptic is a huge toll because

0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:55.800
<v Speaker 8>your whole reality changes. You thought things were one way

0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:59.000
<v Speaker 8>when there was a completely different reality happening behind the

0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.480
<v Speaker 8>scenes that changed, you know.

0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:02.480
<v Speaker 5>And it was you.

0:41:03.280 --> 0:41:05.000
<v Speaker 2>Then they they blame you for that. Well, if you

0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:06.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't do this, or if you didn't like he was

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:08.400
<v Speaker 2>always like, well if you were you know, if you

0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:11.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't say this, like I would have been nicer to you.

0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, what, like, it's just like and then

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:15.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, then I stay because I'm like, Okay,

0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:17.839
<v Speaker 2>you're right, that was my fault, you know, or it's

0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:20.200
<v Speaker 2>so it's hard for you because you know you have

0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:23.279
<v Speaker 2>things blocked and you can't see certain things, or you know,

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:25.239
<v Speaker 2>it's I don't want you going out at three am

0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.480
<v Speaker 2>to a bar or whatever like that's yeah, you're right,

0:41:27.520 --> 0:41:29.319
<v Speaker 2>that's my fault. I'm sorry.

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:33.560
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, no, that's gaslighting. I mean, gaslighting has tremendous, horrible

0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:35.600
<v Speaker 8>consequences on our brains over time. It's going to take

0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:38.279
<v Speaker 8>you time to heal from that. Just surrounding yourself with

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.000
<v Speaker 8>people who just constantly are affirming to you that your

0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:45.279
<v Speaker 8>reality is real, that you see things how they are,

0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.320
<v Speaker 8>that you can trust your intuition. I think as that happens,

0:41:48.440 --> 0:41:50.040
<v Speaker 8>it's going to be easier for you to let go

0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:51.960
<v Speaker 8>of the fact that he is denying this, that he

0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:54.359
<v Speaker 8>won't admit to it, and it's just gonna be enough

0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:56.600
<v Speaker 8>for you to say I know, and your friends say like,

0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:59.600
<v Speaker 8>I know, we know that you know. You know, And eventually,

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:02.000
<v Speaker 8>some day, as your children get older, eventually if you

0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:03.640
<v Speaker 8>want this to be part of their story, they'll say,

0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:06.560
<v Speaker 8>we know that you know. And you'll have this group

0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:10.480
<v Speaker 8>of support, of a support system that believes your story,

0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:12.279
<v Speaker 8>and you won't need him to admit it. He was

0:42:12.320 --> 0:42:15.600
<v Speaker 8>there he knows. He knows. Okay, they know what they're doing.

0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:18.480
<v Speaker 8>He will never give you the kind of closure that

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:20.560
<v Speaker 8>you need. But you don't need it from him because

0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:22.960
<v Speaker 8>it's inside of you. You just can't feel it yet

0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:24.520
<v Speaker 8>because he programmed you not to.

0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that the person that he's portraying or

0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:30.760
<v Speaker 2>the you know after that, Like, do you think people

0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like that stay the same or do you think they

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:36.439
<v Speaker 2>can change? So like the perception of who they are today,

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:38.000
<v Speaker 2>because you know, he's out of a shame now, and

0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, he always says like that, I'm wanting to

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:42.680
<v Speaker 2>keep him in a shame like I'm not. I do

0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:44.520
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing, Like, I don't want you in your shame.

0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I just want the apology that I know that I deserve,

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:48.719
<v Speaker 2>you know I.

0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:51.960
<v Speaker 8>Okay, yeah, And there's so much to that. I believe.

0:42:52.080 --> 0:42:54.080
<v Speaker 8>I believe in shame. I believe that when people do

0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:58.480
<v Speaker 8>shameful things, they should feel ashamed. I feel shame when

0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:02.000
<v Speaker 8>I do shameful things, and it's good because it helps

0:43:02.040 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 8>me to realize I'm not operating on a healthy level.

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:08.240
<v Speaker 8>And I believe the word shame is weaponized by abusive

0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:11.600
<v Speaker 8>men all the time to try to shift responsibility and

0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:15.560
<v Speaker 8>accountability onto their partners. I hear it happen all the time.

0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:20.880
<v Speaker 8>Your desire for him to affirm the level of hurt

0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.520
<v Speaker 8>that he has caused you and your family is not

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.880
<v Speaker 8>keeping him in his shame. It's simply you expressing the

0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:28.480
<v Speaker 8>pain that you're in and for him to be like, oh,

0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:31.000
<v Speaker 8>I want you to stop this now so that I

0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:33.480
<v Speaker 8>don't feel bad for what I've done to you. That

0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:36.280
<v Speaker 8>in itself sounds very much to me like emotional abuse.

0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:37.520
<v Speaker 8>So so there's that.

0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I have a little, a little, a little asterisk to that,

0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:43.600
<v Speaker 2>but I doesn't he he has a point, though, like

0:43:44.000 --> 0:43:47.560
<v Speaker 2>to affirm his side. We are divorced, I should move on.

0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:50.520
<v Speaker 2>So when he says move on, we're divorce, get over it,

0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 2>mm hmm, Like he has a point. We are I

0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:56.440
<v Speaker 2>need to move on, I need to get over it.

0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:03.719
<v Speaker 8>I okay, I'm I'm You're going No, you don't need

0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:06.399
<v Speaker 8>to move on and get over anything. You deserve. I'm

0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:09.200
<v Speaker 8>gonna change that, and I hope you can change that

0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:12.360
<v Speaker 8>thought in your mind too. You deserve to be loved

0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:14.960
<v Speaker 8>and to heal, rather than I need to move on,

0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:16.799
<v Speaker 8>I need to get over it. That's him speaking. I

0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:19.320
<v Speaker 8>hear women say things where I'm like, that's your abuse

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:21.759
<v Speaker 8>are talking, not you, that's his voice in your head,

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 8>not you. Rather, you deserve validation and healing. And it's

0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:30.520
<v Speaker 8>gonna come saying you need to get over such a

0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:33.480
<v Speaker 8>traumatic event. It's literally like saying to somebody who is

0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:36.040
<v Speaker 8>hit by a car who's still asking the person who

0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:38.560
<v Speaker 8>hit their car and is saying, look, I need an apology.

0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:42.440
<v Speaker 8>You you know they were let's change this analogy. They

0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:45.880
<v Speaker 8>were driving the car on purpose. They hit a tree

0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:49.239
<v Speaker 8>with the car fully knowing that there was a passenger

0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:52.520
<v Speaker 8>in the car. Okay, and then you know, you get divorced,

0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:55.319
<v Speaker 8>you move on. Years later, you're like, hey, when you

0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:58.600
<v Speaker 8>rammed our car into that tree, it scared me, It

0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:01.560
<v Speaker 8>hurt me. It it made me have a really hard

0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:04.160
<v Speaker 8>time getting in cars with men. Okay, I would like

0:45:04.160 --> 0:45:06.640
<v Speaker 8>an apology. He says, get over it. It was years ago.

0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:10.919
<v Speaker 8>We're divorced now. Yeah, so you can see a couple

0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:14.200
<v Speaker 8>issues there. He was a psycho to drive that into

0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.600
<v Speaker 8>a tree. Maybe don't talk to him because he's crazy, right,

0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:20.439
<v Speaker 8>but it makes sense that you want that apology from him.

0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:22.880
<v Speaker 8>He should be giving you. He should be doing a

0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:25.080
<v Speaker 8>lot of things to make restitution for what he did

0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:27.239
<v Speaker 8>to you. He's not doing them. It makes sense that

0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:31.719
<v Speaker 8>your brain is like, I want more than what I'm getting, right,

0:45:32.160 --> 0:45:34.400
<v Speaker 8>But what would you say to that passenger. You wouldn't

0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 8>say get over it. You would say, oh my gosh,

0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:37.919
<v Speaker 8>what can I do for you? What do you need

0:45:37.960 --> 0:45:40.640
<v Speaker 8>to heal? So I want you to treat yourself with

0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:43.560
<v Speaker 8>that same kind of compassion, because you have been through

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:47.200
<v Speaker 8>serious trauma and he's treating it like a splinter when

0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:50.040
<v Speaker 8>this is this is an emergency room visit. This is

0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:53.120
<v Speaker 8>an icy U S day, not a splinter with a

0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:59.120
<v Speaker 8>little band aid, right, Yeah.

0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know. It's just when

0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:05.759
<v Speaker 2>you hear those things, I'm like, oh, like all the

0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:08.640
<v Speaker 2>seven years of the gaslighting and the manipulation and making

0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:11.319
<v Speaker 2>me feel crazy, it just is still here today, and

0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:14.439
<v Speaker 2>it's just like I it's just it's taken a lot

0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:17.759
<v Speaker 2>more time than I but it's also I've discovered so

0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:20.200
<v Speaker 2>many more things too about what it really was, and

0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:23.919
<v Speaker 2>like oh wow, like I wasn't crazy, but there's still

0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:27.600
<v Speaker 2>times where I still believe that, like I am crazy

0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:29.880
<v Speaker 2>because of all the things that were said to me,

0:46:30.040 --> 0:46:31.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, like the proof right in front of I mean,

0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Catherine would sit in there when I would be like,

0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:37.200
<v Speaker 2>tell me your secret email account. I don't have one.

0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I me and Katherine just read through all of it,

0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:42.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, and it's like just it's like even those

0:46:42.360 --> 0:46:44.799
<v Speaker 2>memories come and I'm like, oh, but maybe he really

0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:47.160
<v Speaker 2>didn't have one, but like we had the roof right there,

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:49.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, like and it's like this is have my

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:52.160
<v Speaker 2>friend's witness too, just to be like this slapping me.

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:54.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like hello, you know, like wake up.

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:58.680
<v Speaker 4>And I think too, I think we understand why you care.

0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:01.840
<v Speaker 4>You know, if we ever say the words why do

0:47:01.920 --> 0:47:04.439
<v Speaker 4>you care, I think we all understand why you care

0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:07.000
<v Speaker 4>and why you need to be validated and why you

0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:09.879
<v Speaker 4>need that apology. I think it's more what she said

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:12.759
<v Speaker 4>earlier that we know you're never going to get it.

0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:16.160
<v Speaker 4>He is never going to validate that for you. So

0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:18.839
<v Speaker 4>it's us praying for you to get to a place

0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.640
<v Speaker 4>where you can do that to yourself, where you can

0:47:21.680 --> 0:47:25.640
<v Speaker 4>give yourself the closure, not him, because we all can

0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:28.360
<v Speaker 4>see it because we haven't been abused by him. You know,

0:47:28.440 --> 0:47:29.520
<v Speaker 4>you still can't.

0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Fully I mean, you see it, but you have though

0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:33.400
<v Speaker 2>he lied to you true, just as much as he

0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:36.200
<v Speaker 2>lied to everybody listening to the podcast, just as much

0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 2>as he lied to you know people on Mondays.

0:47:39.120 --> 0:47:41.000
<v Speaker 4>He did not retrain my brain.

0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:43.279
<v Speaker 2>He didn't believe didn't believe him.

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:47.520
<v Speaker 4>No, not really, if I'm being honest, No, not really.

0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:50.640
<v Speaker 4>I mean sure there were times and little things that

0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:53.680
<v Speaker 4>I wanted to believe that, But our brain was not

0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:57.720
<v Speaker 4>abused like yours. You know, we were not treated that fully.

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.160
<v Speaker 4>So we can see that you aren't going to get

0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:02.239
<v Speaker 4>what you want. You still want it. I see it

0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:04.840
<v Speaker 4>in the text between y'all. Now you still want it,

0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:07.759
<v Speaker 4>you still expect it, you still have this hope for

0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:08.719
<v Speaker 4>it that you're not.

0:48:08.640 --> 0:48:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Going I don't want to be hate. You know what

0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:12.239
<v Speaker 2>my thing is. I'm like, yes, I want people to

0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.319
<v Speaker 2>like me. That's it's a bad quality to have. I

0:48:14.360 --> 0:48:15.840
<v Speaker 2>want everyone to like me, and I want one hundred

0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:17.880
<v Speaker 2>percent of proven rights normal, which I know i'll never get.

0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:21.400
<v Speaker 2>But like the person that has hurt me the worst,

0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how he could hate me. That's the

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.120
<v Speaker 2>part that baffles me. That's the part that hurts so bad.

0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, how can you hate me when you destroyed everything?

0:48:34.440 --> 0:48:37.399
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you blame me. He oh, I don't think

0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:39.000
<v Speaker 2>he loves me.

0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:41.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I don't think he hates you. He hates himself,

0:48:41.640 --> 0:48:44.040
<v Speaker 4>but he can't admit that. I do not, for I

0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 4>do not believe that he actually hates you and fully

0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:49.560
<v Speaker 4>blames you. I don't believe it. I think he knows,

0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 4>but he's never going to admit it. That's my opinion.

0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:56.560
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I don't know, but in my my

0:48:56.600 --> 0:48:59.360
<v Speaker 2>brain knows it triggers you well, yeah, and it just

0:48:59.440 --> 0:49:04.000
<v Speaker 2>baffles me. I just don't understand how someone can hate I, Like,

0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:06.239
<v Speaker 2>I gave a million chances. I tried as hard as

0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:08.160
<v Speaker 2>I could, and it was like, but yet I was

0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I was controlling and I was this, and it's like, well,

0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 2>yeah I did. I was controlling at times for sure,

0:49:13.520 --> 0:49:15.919
<v Speaker 2>because I was feking, terrified that like you were gonna

0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:18.319
<v Speaker 2>cheat again, and five million times later you did again,

0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like, but I'm like, how do you?

0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:21.600
<v Speaker 1>How do you?

0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:23.560
<v Speaker 2>How does that person hate me? Like that's the part

0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:24.920
<v Speaker 2>that just doesn't make sense to me.

0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.120
<v Speaker 8>And it doesn't and it won't make sense because you're

0:49:28.200 --> 0:49:31.279
<v Speaker 8>in You're in reality one and he's in reality too.

0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:34.080
<v Speaker 8>It cannot make sense. And it's almost at some point

0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:36.400
<v Speaker 8>you're going to be grateful for this because you're going

0:49:36.480 --> 0:49:38.320
<v Speaker 8>to realize you're healthy and he's not healthy.

0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:41.600
<v Speaker 2>But maybe but he's he seems so healthy right now.

0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:43.759
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing, Like he seems so like Yeah, I

0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:46.000
<v Speaker 2>mean he's too you know, he's he's going to mend's

0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:48.400
<v Speaker 2>like all these things, and I'm just like, man like, okay.

0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:51.279
<v Speaker 4>But even you's communication with each other's divorced people is

0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:54.080
<v Speaker 4>not healthy. Yeah know, it's going to them so and

0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:56.920
<v Speaker 4>I want to point that out. You saying that he

0:49:57.040 --> 0:50:01.640
<v Speaker 4>seems healthy to me couldn't be further from the truth.

0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:04.400
<v Speaker 2>But maybe it's because he hates me that much. I'm like,

0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:07.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe he'd like truly just and then I get so upset.

0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:08.799
<v Speaker 4>I think that if he's healthy and he hated you

0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:10.400
<v Speaker 4>that much, he could still be respectful.

0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:13.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean I do, is what I'm saying. Well, I mean,

0:50:13.400 --> 0:50:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I do call him a narcissist, but that's not very nice.

0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:22.000
<v Speaker 9>But truth, Jane's like, they will always hate, they will

0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:25.800
<v Speaker 9>they will always hate people or or you know, honestly,

0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 9>like I'm not jury's out on what kinds of emotions,

0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:32.759
<v Speaker 9>these kinds of people actually feel hatred to you.

0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:35.719
<v Speaker 8>Means something different to him. Love to you mean something

0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:39.360
<v Speaker 8>completely different to him, to this kind. To an abusive person,

0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:43.080
<v Speaker 8>love is what can I get from you? What? What

0:50:43.120 --> 0:50:46.400
<v Speaker 8>do you give to me to boost my image? You know,

0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:49.359
<v Speaker 8>to make me more financially comfortable? You know, how can

0:50:49.400 --> 0:50:51.560
<v Speaker 8>I use you? That's love? So then what would hate me?

0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:54.279
<v Speaker 8>You're not giving me anything anymore. You're not giving me

0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:56.640
<v Speaker 8>what you used to give me. I have no use

0:50:56.680 --> 0:51:00.680
<v Speaker 8>for you. You're hurting my image. So, yeah, he hates you.

0:51:00.680 --> 0:51:03.319
<v Speaker 8>You're hurting his image by telling the truth. You're being

0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:07.439
<v Speaker 8>a whistleblower. You're telling you're bringing awareness to narcissistic abuse. Yeah,

0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:10.440
<v Speaker 8>he hates you. Okay, you're telling that good. You know

0:51:10.440 --> 0:51:13.319
<v Speaker 8>you're doing a noble good thing here. And you know,

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:17.040
<v Speaker 8>I mean what you're asking. Every every single ex wife

0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.560
<v Speaker 8>or ex partner of an abuser asked tod, why did

0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:21.279
<v Speaker 8>he hate you in the first place? Because abuse is

0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:24.799
<v Speaker 8>not love. Abuse is hatred, abuse and betrayal. Why would

0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:26.600
<v Speaker 8>he have done any of those things? You know, and

0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:30.879
<v Speaker 8>you can some therapists, you know, sexual addiction therapists will

0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:32.640
<v Speaker 8>be like, oh, unfulfilled needs, blah blah blah. It was

0:51:32.680 --> 0:51:35.520
<v Speaker 8>abuse and abuse comes down to power and control. That

0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:38.200
<v Speaker 8>did not change once you got divorced. It's still about

0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 8>power and control. He was trying to exert power and

0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:42.960
<v Speaker 8>control when you were married, and now that you're divorced,

0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:47.480
<v Speaker 8>same thing as his access to you. So through texting

0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:50.640
<v Speaker 8>or emails or however you're communicating, he's going to continue

0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:53.040
<v Speaker 8>to try to be the center of your universe. And

0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:55.359
<v Speaker 8>he's going to continue to try to control you through that.

0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:59.040
<v Speaker 8>Control your emotions, control your time, you know, control your

0:51:59.080 --> 0:52:01.480
<v Speaker 8>health if you're not keeping very well. He knows, and

0:52:01.520 --> 0:52:05.040
<v Speaker 8>he likes it. He likes knowing how much he's affecting

0:52:05.080 --> 0:52:07.520
<v Speaker 8>your life. He enjoys it. Okay, and I can tell

0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:09.319
<v Speaker 8>you that just because they're all the same, you know,

0:52:09.400 --> 0:52:13.279
<v Speaker 8>they all kind of operate the same way.

0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:25.160
<v Speaker 2>What's your advice then, for someone dealing with someone who's

0:52:25.200 --> 0:52:29.000
<v Speaker 2>got guess you know, a gas slider narcissist. Is it

0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:31.440
<v Speaker 2>just no communication or is it just I mean, like

0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:34.160
<v Speaker 2>ken you said, like okay, thank you?

0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:35.920
<v Speaker 8>In yeah, I mean you can't you can't go no

0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:38.400
<v Speaker 8>contact completely. If you share children, I would say limit

0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:41.399
<v Speaker 8>your contact to logistics, use something, use a parenting app

0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:43.479
<v Speaker 8>like Talking Parents or whatever. So you just have one

0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:46.560
<v Speaker 8>route of communication and then just talk to them about logistics.

0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:48.600
<v Speaker 8>One are you picking up the kids? You know, if

0:52:48.600 --> 0:52:50.560
<v Speaker 8>one of the kids is sick, Yeah, she had a fever.

0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:53.160
<v Speaker 8>She's doing okay though, so and so it's getting braces

0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:56.920
<v Speaker 8>on this day. Let's you know, John has a birthday

0:52:56.960 --> 0:52:58.600
<v Speaker 8>on Friday. You can have him in the morning. I'll

0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:00.160
<v Speaker 8>have him in the afternoon. Just keep it limited to

0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:05.319
<v Speaker 8>things like that, only parenting, only logistical issues. He's not

0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:07.960
<v Speaker 8>the person to process your trauma with. He will not

0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.680
<v Speaker 8>validate it. And if he tries to bring you down

0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:13.480
<v Speaker 8>that wormhole, you just need to have some because you know,

0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:15.600
<v Speaker 8>I can tell you this, the moment that you change

0:53:15.600 --> 0:53:18.040
<v Speaker 8>your energy towards him, the moment that you stop trying

0:53:18.360 --> 0:53:20.520
<v Speaker 8>to squeeze water out of that rock, he's gonna come

0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:24.080
<v Speaker 8>after you. He's I get you know. He probably listens

0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:25.879
<v Speaker 8>to your podcast and he probably hates me right now

0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:29.239
<v Speaker 8>and he's so he might he might wait a little

0:53:29.239 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 8>while to do this, but I guarantee at some point

0:53:31.239 --> 0:53:34.360
<v Speaker 8>he's going to say something like I miss you, I

0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:39.120
<v Speaker 8>don't know why you know I I or I wish

0:53:39.200 --> 0:53:41.520
<v Speaker 8>I would like some closure on this. Can we meet

0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:43.960
<v Speaker 8>and can we talk about it? He eventually, if you

0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:46.440
<v Speaker 8>stop giving him the supply, the attention that he's used to,

0:53:46.440 --> 0:53:48.919
<v Speaker 8>and with narcissism we call the supply, he will try

0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:51.360
<v Speaker 8>to get it back from you. And but you're not

0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:53.160
<v Speaker 8>going to give it because you're you're going to fill

0:53:53.160 --> 0:53:54.839
<v Speaker 8>your life up with these other supportive people and you're

0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:56.520
<v Speaker 8>gonna be able to say, I'm sorry, I'm not interested

0:53:56.560 --> 0:53:58.800
<v Speaker 8>in going down that road. I only want to communicate

0:53:58.840 --> 0:54:00.600
<v Speaker 8>with you about our children. We can be the best

0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:02.000
<v Speaker 8>co parents we can be. And then you're just going

0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:04.200
<v Speaker 8>to leave it there. Yeah, and then and then he's

0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:05.799
<v Speaker 8>going to go off, And unfortunately there will be other

0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:08.120
<v Speaker 8>you know, other people will have to deal with this

0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:11.200
<v Speaker 8>abusive person. But but you are going to fill your

0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:13.160
<v Speaker 8>life with safe people and just move forward.

0:54:13.400 --> 0:54:15.480
<v Speaker 2>And I will say it's my fault. I mean, he's

0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:18.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm the one that keeps being like, hey,

0:54:18.760 --> 0:54:20.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, I really need closure from the and it's

0:54:20.680 --> 0:54:22.480
<v Speaker 2>like I just need to know I won't get it,

0:54:22.520 --> 0:54:24.319
<v Speaker 2>so I just need to stop because I mean, in

0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:27.279
<v Speaker 2>his defense, like, yeah, I you know, he thinks I'm

0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:28.239
<v Speaker 2>wanting to bring up a shame.

0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:28.560
<v Speaker 5>I'm not.

0:54:28.840 --> 0:54:31.759
<v Speaker 2>But I can see like how he may think that

0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:33.400
<v Speaker 2>that's what I'm trying to do. I just would like

0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:40.160
<v Speaker 2>to get that full of closure and you know that, Yeah,

0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.239
<v Speaker 2>I will say, like, that's definitely my fault that I'm

0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:44.759
<v Speaker 2>the one that like keeps wanting to like have those

0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:48.160
<v Speaker 2>conversations and I'm the one drugg you know, a drug,

0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:49.960
<v Speaker 2>judging up the past, you know.

0:54:50.120 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 8>So don't blame yourself. Don't blame yourself. Keep keep that analogy.

0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:57.080
<v Speaker 8>It seemed like that clicked. You have been in serious

0:54:57.200 --> 0:55:01.640
<v Speaker 8>traumatic situations with this guy. Okay, don't please, don't. I

0:55:01.680 --> 0:55:04.920
<v Speaker 8>hear him in your head. I hear him like, I

0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:07.399
<v Speaker 8>feel like you have been through so much and you're

0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:10.319
<v Speaker 8>expecting a lot out of yourself that is more than

0:55:10.360 --> 0:55:12.560
<v Speaker 8>you should be expecting. Of Course you want closure, of

0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:15.319
<v Speaker 8>course you want these things. I think that working with

0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:17.799
<v Speaker 8>your therapist whatever, you know, you know what you need.

0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:20.080
<v Speaker 8>But I just think a huge dose of compassion at

0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:22.880
<v Speaker 8>beach here. That's like one of our biggest platforms is

0:55:22.880 --> 0:55:25.280
<v Speaker 8>that self care is really just a ton of compassion

0:55:25.280 --> 0:55:27.799
<v Speaker 8>for yourself. The things that you're doing that you're like, oh,

0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:30.680
<v Speaker 8>it's my fault, this doesn't make sense. It makes sense.

0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:33.080
<v Speaker 8>You are a victim of abuse, you know, and when

0:55:33.120 --> 0:55:34.719
<v Speaker 8>you look at other abusive women or you think about

0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:36.239
<v Speaker 8>other abusive women, I know that we're all like, oh

0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:37.960
<v Speaker 8>my gosh, that poor woman. I can't believe she went

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:41.719
<v Speaker 8>through that. That's you, so see yourself that way, you know.

0:55:43.920 --> 0:55:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I'm something's interesting that came up there day

0:55:47.000 --> 0:55:49.719
<v Speaker 2>because Hughes always say that I and I will admit

0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:51.440
<v Speaker 2>to this too. I had always had a really hard

0:55:51.480 --> 0:55:54.239
<v Speaker 2>time apologizing, but when I did apologize, I would really

0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 2>mean it, you know, like if there was something you know,

0:55:57.120 --> 0:56:00.759
<v Speaker 2>that I did that upset him. But I feel like

0:56:00.800 --> 0:56:03.799
<v Speaker 2>because I have, you know, I'm now in a new relationship,

0:56:03.840 --> 0:56:07.080
<v Speaker 2>but I feel like because of my past, I'm constantly

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:09.240
<v Speaker 2>having to be like, I'm sorry, that's my past triggers,

0:56:09.320 --> 0:56:11.839
<v Speaker 2>and that's like this just came up for me. It

0:56:11.880 --> 0:56:15.040
<v Speaker 2>has nothing to do with you, and you've been amazing,

0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:17.440
<v Speaker 2>but like this is like what what I feel, and

0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:20.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, and it's like I just I've realized how

0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:23.120
<v Speaker 2>much baggage I have in my new relationship that it's

0:56:23.160 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>actually like this apart makes sad, Like I feel it's

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:30.640
<v Speaker 2>like it's so unfair to like him, you know, because

0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, that's not fair, like that, like my like

0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:37.400
<v Speaker 2>my is now like all over his side, you know.

0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:38.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:42.479
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, Choosing like a partner post trauma is a really

0:56:42.520 --> 0:56:45.480
<v Speaker 8>interesting thing because you're gonna need to, you know, find

0:56:45.520 --> 0:56:49.480
<v Speaker 8>someone or let someone find you who is extremely compassionate.

0:56:49.600 --> 0:56:52.480
<v Speaker 8>It's a gift to be with a trauma victim. Trauma

0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:57.279
<v Speaker 8>victims are some of the most compassionate, loving, sensitive, affectionate

0:56:57.320 --> 0:57:01.239
<v Speaker 8>people on the planet. And why because we know what

0:57:01.280 --> 0:57:04.960
<v Speaker 8>it's like to be so desperately lonely in a relationship.

0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:07.160
<v Speaker 8>We have a ton of love to give. We are

0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:10.200
<v Speaker 8>we're honest to a fault because we've been accused of

0:57:10.239 --> 0:57:13.080
<v Speaker 8>being liars. You know, We're so self reflective, and so

0:57:13.520 --> 0:57:18.000
<v Speaker 8>we require incredible partners. So make sure that whoever you

0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:21.360
<v Speaker 8>decide to be with understands, you know, rather than being like,

0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:23.440
<v Speaker 8>oh my gosh, I'm so grateful that anybody wants to

0:57:23.440 --> 0:57:29.000
<v Speaker 8>be with me because I'm so pathetic. You know what, andership,

0:57:29.040 --> 0:57:32.400
<v Speaker 8>if the mindset to understanding being with you is a

0:57:32.520 --> 0:57:35.480
<v Speaker 8>huge privilege. And I hope all trauma victims who are

0:57:35.520 --> 0:57:38.200
<v Speaker 8>hearing this understand that we have gone through the ringer

0:57:38.280 --> 0:57:42.360
<v Speaker 8>and we have come out wounded, yes, but as incredible partners.

0:57:42.400 --> 0:57:44.439
<v Speaker 8>And so anybody who's with us does have to be,

0:57:44.800 --> 0:57:50.280
<v Speaker 8>you know, very trauma sensitive, very understanding, and very willing

0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:53.800
<v Speaker 8>to work through difficult moments with us. But it's very

0:57:53.840 --> 0:57:56.200
<v Speaker 8>rewarding to be the partner of a trauma victim. So

0:57:56.240 --> 0:57:58.200
<v Speaker 8>he's very lucky to be with you. It is going

0:57:58.280 --> 0:58:00.320
<v Speaker 8>to be a hard time, a hard period of time

0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:03.040
<v Speaker 8>to work through, but you know, there are books he

0:58:03.080 --> 0:58:05.880
<v Speaker 8>can read, he can get a therapist, he can listen

0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.760
<v Speaker 8>to podcasts, he can be there for you through this,

0:58:08.880 --> 0:58:11.200
<v Speaker 8>and that's that is what is going to be required

0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:12.400
<v Speaker 8>for the relationship to work.

0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Jane, thank you so much for just coming on. And

0:58:18.360 --> 0:58:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you, and I'm sorry that I you know,

0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:23.240
<v Speaker 2>DMD you the other day being like I don't.

0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:26.080
<v Speaker 8>Say sorry, no, no, no no. We get messages a

0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:27.440
<v Speaker 8>lot like that, and I just and I feel like

0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:29.600
<v Speaker 8>I just wish I could tell everybody, every single person

0:58:29.640 --> 0:58:32.160
<v Speaker 8>who messages us, who comes through with that you're not crazy.

0:58:32.440 --> 0:58:37.000
<v Speaker 8>You're not crazy, You're not nobody. We're not crazy.

0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Jane, can where can everybody find the Betrayal Trauma Recovery.

0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:44.600
<v Speaker 2>It's on Instagram.

0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:47.880
<v Speaker 8>We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok. Our handle on TikTok

0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:50.560
<v Speaker 8>is BTR dot org. You can find us on Apple

0:58:50.600 --> 0:58:54.280
<v Speaker 8>podcasts just the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast, and then our

0:58:54.280 --> 0:58:55.880
<v Speaker 8>website is BTR dot org.

0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Jane, you're the best. Thank you and I will be

0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:00.520
<v Speaker 2>dming you again very soon.

0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:05.000
<v Speaker 8>Thank you so much. Right bye, bye girl bye.

0:59:05.680 --> 0:59:07.680
<v Speaker 4>I love her, adore her.

0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:09.880
<v Speaker 2>I know, I watch her all the time. I just

0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:10.880
<v Speaker 2>love her videos.

0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:13.280
<v Speaker 4>I feel like she's a good one for you. Yeah,

0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:15.080
<v Speaker 4>Like I feel like you like really kind of heard her.

0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love but I every day I like listen

0:59:18.480 --> 0:59:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to her go on her Instagram and I'm like, yes, yes,

0:59:23.080 --> 0:59:26.760
<v Speaker 2>And then I like, I don't know, but it's okay.

0:59:26.800 --> 0:59:28.880
<v Speaker 4>We're giving, we're having compassion for that.

0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, she's really great. But well hopefully that helps

0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:36.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people, you know. I it's so hard,

0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:41.080
<v Speaker 2>like because I'm kind of in that spot where you know,

0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:43.280
<v Speaker 2>I want to be happy, but then there's also things

0:59:43.280 --> 0:59:46.720
<v Speaker 2>that like going through. But it's it's been really nice

0:59:46.760 --> 0:59:50.040
<v Speaker 2>because so many people, I think, are you know some

0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:51.760
<v Speaker 2>of the stuff that I've been putting out there about

0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:56.040
<v Speaker 2>narcissist or gas you know, gaslighting phrases, and people are like,

0:59:56.080 --> 0:59:58.320
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, I never realized that. Now I'm they're like,

0:59:58.360 --> 1:00:00.160
<v Speaker 2>thank you for you know, talking about it. So at

1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:01.760
<v Speaker 2>least I feel like I'm like, okay.

1:00:01.800 --> 1:00:03.960
<v Speaker 4>You're definitely helping people for sure, which.

1:00:03.960 --> 1:00:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Makes me feel better.

1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:09.800
<v Speaker 4>I don't think people really fully understand gaslighting and what

1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:14.760
<v Speaker 4>is considered all forms of abuse and narcissism, you know,

1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:16.760
<v Speaker 4>so it's helpful.

1:00:16.560 --> 1:00:16.720
<v Speaker 11>You know.

1:00:16.800 --> 1:00:19.320
<v Speaker 2>One of the things too, one of the gaslighting phrases.

1:00:19.360 --> 1:00:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh shoot, I used to say that.

1:00:21.320 --> 1:00:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, I'm sorry you feel that way. Mm hmm.

1:00:23.840 --> 1:00:26.520
<v Speaker 2>That's actually technically gaslighting. I could say that you're supposed

1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:29.920
<v Speaker 2>to say like I'm sorry, because it's not.

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:33.000
<v Speaker 4>Really taking ownership of what you did. It's saying how

1:00:33.080 --> 1:00:35.840
<v Speaker 4>you yeah perceived the situation.

1:00:36.000 --> 1:00:37.680
<v Speaker 2>I wrote it down or actually saut the other day

1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:39.520
<v Speaker 2>because I was like, oh crap, it's more about.

1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:41.600
<v Speaker 4>What I was gonna say. He used to say that.

1:00:43.080 --> 1:00:44.120
<v Speaker 4>I remember that vividly.

1:00:45.080 --> 1:00:45.800
<v Speaker 2>That's where I thought.

1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.240
<v Speaker 4>I think I got it from I'm sorry you feel

1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:49.959
<v Speaker 4>that way. I'm sorry you feel that way.

1:00:52.160 --> 1:00:57.040
<v Speaker 2>No, it should be i'm sorry that you're feeling this way.

1:00:57.080 --> 1:00:58.600
<v Speaker 2>I have to look at it.

1:00:58.200 --> 1:00:59.920
<v Speaker 4>It was it was I'm sorry for what I do.

1:01:00.400 --> 1:01:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I know you say I'm then also it's like I

1:01:04.440 --> 1:01:08.040
<v Speaker 2>admit that that is hurtful, and what I loved in

1:01:08.080 --> 1:01:10.320
<v Speaker 2>it too is the correction, like, how what can I

1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:13.640
<v Speaker 2>do so that it doesn't affect you that way? You know?

1:01:13.800 --> 1:01:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything that I can do to help when

1:01:15.480 --> 1:01:18.400
<v Speaker 2>I love that? Right? Like asking someone like because you

1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:21.600
<v Speaker 2>don't sometimes like you don't mean to hurt the person, sure,

1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Like I wouldn't know that if I, Oh my god, Cather,

1:01:24.120 --> 1:01:25.520
<v Speaker 2>I have no idea that I hurt you that I'm

1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:27.600
<v Speaker 2>so sorry? What can I do Instead of saying I'm sorry?

1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, what can I do so that that

1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:29.560
<v Speaker 2>doesn't happen?

1:01:29.840 --> 1:01:29.920
<v Speaker 6>Right?

1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:30.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? I know for sure?

1:01:31.960 --> 1:01:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything that I need to say sorry for?

1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:39.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry? I feel that way? All right, guys, talk

1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:39.919
<v Speaker 2>to you next week.