WEBVTT - Bonus Episode: 'Heroes' Assistant Engineer Peter Burgon Recalls Singing with Bowie on a Rock Classic and Life in a Divided Berlin 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.239 Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.520 Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record. 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:14.920 My name's Jordan Runtug. Thanks so much for listening. We've 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.520 discussed the making of Bowie's landmark track Heroes, one of 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.960 the most mythic songs in his cannon. Everything about its 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.600 creation is loaded with drama. It was recorded in an 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:29.440 old Nazi concert hall, within sight of watchful East German 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.040 snipers atop the Berlin Wall, and of course there was 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.440 the famous Kiss by the Wall, which supposedly inspired one 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.280 of the songs best known verses. My guests today not 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.840 only worked at the legendary Hansa Studios, the so called 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.080 Hall by the Wall where Heroes was recorded, he actually 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.720 sang on it eye to eye with Bowie himself. And 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.360 that's just one of his many incredible stories. His name 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.640 is Peter Bergen, and he worked as an assistant engineer 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.480 under our previous guest du Meyer. When Harry Meyer was 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.119 on vacation for much of the sessions for Heroes in seven, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.080 Peter stepped up and took over. He helped achieve the 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.640 epic expansive sound of the title track, and he also 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.920 helped get this gargantuan drum sounds on Lust for Life 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.679 by Iggy Pop, whom he still refers to by his 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.120 given name, Jimmy. Peter did all of this, and he 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.320 still found time to bring David's son to school on occasion. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:30.680 Our conversation was a joy. Peter shared his memories, busted 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.600 some tall tales, and provided fascinating insight into the man 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:49.760 and his music. You know, basically the story of me 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:57.880 with David was I began as as assistant in around 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.120 the Hands and when when Low was done, um, but 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.480 because basically there wasn't a lot of work to be done, 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.960 because they basically just mixed it. They mastered the Low 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:12.519 because most of the recording was done. There was a 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.400 few bits and pieces done on top during Low. But 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.080 I wasn't around much. But I've met him sort of 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.800 rub shoulders with Wisconti. I don't think we jelled then. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:30.160 Then obviously, in seventy seven, when David came back with 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.600 Jimmy for Lust for Life, we went to a different studio. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.000 We were in Studio three. Then Studio three was completely 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.360 up and running because they had been completely rebuilt and 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.760 we weren't able to record in the Great Hall. Yes, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:49.679 so we did hear Lust for Life in Studio three, 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.959 which was downstairs the hands up and was authoroughly modern studio. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.960 I would have said for that time period, it was 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.920 probably stated meant to juice state of the art, you know, 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.079 they were they were looking at the other studios and thinking, okay, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:11.280 how can we be probably the most polished studio to be. 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.040 I don't know if you've seen any photos of Studio three. 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.000 I saw with the old wood paneling and the and 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.400 the recess lights and everything. Yeah, it looks very it 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.000 was all that. Yeah, it was really really plush. Unfortunately, 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.720 I don't think the the ambiance was quite as good, 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:34.320 and it probably suited more more German pop at the 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.720 time than they suited anything else. So when we did 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.360 Last for Life, Ado and I had been experimenting with 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.320 trying to get more sound out of the studios. So 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.240 we we we might the drum kid out in the 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.840 big part of the studio instead of you know, having 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.560 it confined in the drum drum boost like most drums 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.040 were recorded back in those days. We were looking for 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.800 to get more of a booming sound from from drums, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.640 which is what we like. So so I was sort 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.800 of feeding of Ado, and it was feeding of myself 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.000 the way we wanted because I did a lot of 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.200 live live work at the time, mixing live bands and 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.800 doing live work because I managed a few bands, which 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.000 is how I actually got into the music side and 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.279 got into the hands up. So we were looking looking 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.919 at that side of it, and of course David was 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.720 working there anywhere as producer on that on that album 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.919 with a lot of with a lot of artistic input, 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.160 and we had a guy called Colin Thurston. I don't 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.440 know how they've picked up on Colin in London. Colin 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.880 had been working in London at the time, so he 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.560 came across and I think he's actually listed as producer 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.800 on the album. Although ringing David did most of the production. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.880 David and Jimmy handler most of the production side of it, 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.760 and Ado and myself handling engineering side of it, you know, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:58.240 of course in the front seat, and I was just 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.479 sitting in the backseat putting in my input. And that 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.080 was really my first time of working together with David. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.320 What what I did appreciate at that time with David 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.640 was I had a couple of ideas for the way 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.119 of doing some of the backing vocals and Philosopher Life. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.640 You know this very high pitched Lust for Life. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.760 part of it, and that was part of my import 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.080 into that. And David said, yeah, well come on go 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:30.599 and record it. And David yeah, and so I sort 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.480 of laughed and I went, well, okay, yeah that was it. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.359 And then Al said, yeah, go get in the studio. 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.120 We'll put the micup, and put the micup. And I 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.840 did this that Lust for Life and did a bit 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.520 of backing vocals on Lust for Life. I also sung 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.599 backing vocals together with David on Passenger. So if you 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.279 listen to the backing vocus on Passenger, that's staying myself 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.320 doing the backing vocal. Was that intimidating? Was that scary 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.760 to too this thing with him? Well, well it wasn't 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.880 really intimidating. What it was was I mean, you know, 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.839 we'll go back really in history now. I met Jimmy 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:07.919 Hendrix when I was fifteen in Berlin and a concert. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.680 Yeah wow, that is it. You know for fifteen year 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:17.240 old that trips are like fantastic. And most most of 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.440 my my time after that was going to live concerts 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.600 and I met a lot of musicians live in the 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.760 Deutschtann Howe, because I used to work as a like 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.400 a age monitor and running around. Because I spoke German 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:38.480 and English, I was able to get into the live 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:43.240 venue as on a working basis, So you know, I 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.599 did things like just making sure that the band were 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.360 happy and the roadies had everything they wanted when they 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.160 were arriving. If anything were short, I made sure they 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.240 got it, and so things like that. So I saw 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.400 a lot of live music in Berlin and I got 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.960 involved in a lot of live side but I always 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:07.400 wanted to be an artist. My unfortunate situation is I'm 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:12.120 no good you know. You know, I can play a 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:16.160 three chord twelve bar but I wouldn't even be as 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:21.320 good as stay this quote, so oh you know, yes, yeah, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.080 but that's what I'm saying. So you know, my limitations 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.720 were enormous. But I had a lot of influence on 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.640 a lot of the local musicians and a lot of 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.280 the local bands, and I got my put bands together. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.840 I managed a lot of the bands on the live 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.680 scene in Berlin, which is how I ended up meeting Adam. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.440 So so when David said, you know, let's do these 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.720 vocals for me, it was like, yeah, but why me, 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.080 you know, I can't see. But but David I found 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:53.080 always to be somebody he'd like to encourage people. Now, 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.680 I don't know what he was trying to encourage me for, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.720 because I was never going to be be an artist, 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:04.720 you know, But but but he knew. I think I 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.840 wanted wanted to produce. I wanted to produce my own artists, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.760 and I wanted to get things going. So I was 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.440 working very hard on that, and David seemed to encourage 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.000 me there. Um. But then when he came to Heroes 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.240 and Tony was we spent a week just David and 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:24.160 myself in the studio before anybody else arrived, while equipment 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.720 was arriving and bits and pieces like that which I 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.640 was looking after the whole issue, and David was in 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:34.000 the studio playing piano, playing a bit of guitar, trying 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.920 to work out what he wanted to put together at 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.720 that this new album before anybody arrived. And then when 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.199 was cont arrived, he was very very disappointed. But I think, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.320 you know, in retrospect, I'm I'm thinking this, I think 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.160 he was very disappointed that Ada wasn't there, and I 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.480 think he was looking at me and going, well, you know, 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.520 why have we've been given the the the the amateur. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.959 Why have we've been given this guy? You know that 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.400 who is he and what is he? He had this 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.600 arrogance about him that, you know, he was the guy 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.320 that knew everything, and I was probably not fit to 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.680 be there. But unfortunately because of the workings of the 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.920 studio and studio too was actually quite basic. Why we 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.960 had lots of problems with wiring. It was historically, you know, 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.080 trying to get everything sorted. You know, he needed somebody 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.440 to understood the studio because he wouldn't be able to 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.800 it was. It was back as if it wasn't straightforward, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.280 and so I needed to be there, but I don't 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.400 think he wanted me to be there. And then subsequently, 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.160 when we got all the music down, on all the 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.400 music tracks and all that part of it, they started 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.800 working on the vocals. But once again I had to 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.520 be there to sort of make sure the studio was 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:52.480 operated and make sure that mikes were put in the 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.600 right place. And you know, just on the Heroes thing, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.600 he talks about that the way he set the mics 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.480 up and set them up through gates. Well, you see, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.680 my problem is we didn't have the gates he's talking 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:14.600 about back in Hansa and I have an email from 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.559 our technician, our studio technician, when I cleared him about 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.440 this quite a while ago, and I said, you know, 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.600 Teddy Tony was gone. He's talking about these microphone gates 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.640 that he set up to do the vocals of David 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.199 on Heroes that you know, the one microphone would cut 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.840 in after the next one and the next one close 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.040 up on the middle one and the further one. But 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.960 we didn't. We didn't have that. Now, my remembrance of it, 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.880 and I say, it's my remembrance of it the way 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.880 we did it. We did everything mangrly. We had different 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.920 mics set up. Now I can't recall it being three 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.120 mic set up, but I know there was two mics 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:57.120 set up, so he professes there were three. I don't 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:01.080 recall it being three, probably to remember we having to 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:05.920 cut from mike to mike going that way manually. Everything 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.760 had to be done. But but it all went down 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.960 on one track because that was all they had left. Yeah, 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.280 that's all we had left. And I mean, and you 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.920 have to look at it in this way. The only 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.600 people in the studio at the time with David Tony 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.840 and myself, So the only three people that know how 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.400 things were put together. Then those three people, those three 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:33.360 individuals um and in his interviews with the BBC, he 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.920 he uses Adamyer did this and Ado Meyer did that. Well, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:43.520 Aidamyer was in the Caribbean on the beach um. But 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.360 so basically he just has never ever said Peter berg 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.920 And did this, or Peter did this, or Peter did anything. 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.160 So I was sorting to another journalist and he said 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.160 he's One of his opening statements was he said, I 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.720 don't understand any of this, Peter. You have been airbrushed 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:05.200 out of heroes. There is no mention anywhere of you 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.439 working on heroes. And I went, okay, but that's fine. 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:11.720 You know, it's not a big deal out of my 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.680 life because I other was there. I didn't get paid 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.360 in the extra. I was paid a pittance at the 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:21.000 time because I was on an assistant assistant retainer, which 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.480 was useless. I lived outside the studio in a in 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.160 a caravan, you know, in the trailer as you would 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.600 call them in the States, outside Pat Stammer plants. Yeah, 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.880 right outside the studio in because I couldn't have formed 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:38.840 an apartment. On the wages I was getting out of 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.360 the studio, I couldn't have formed an apartment. Wow, oh 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:49.240 yeah it is, you know, historically it's great. But I 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.000 loved working on heroes because we had a restaurant in 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.360 the studio called Studio Track, which was run by an 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.520 xboxer X German Champion boxing or world MM but he 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.559 was a German boxer. And of course our cea you 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.120 were footing the bill, so it would be we're going 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.559 to have dinner, so Peter got Peter got to eat 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:14.040 good good food. Well, well, David was doing heroes on 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:19.000 the bill of our our ce a good yeah, yeah, 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.160 so you know, and that was the same with lust 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.160 for life. You know, it was good when you had 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.839 a good and it was different artists as well. We 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.320 always so I mean I used to live eat quite well. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.439 But you know I had a little gas chemistry in 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.960 in my in my trailer for the winter, it's just 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.680 to keep me warm. But that was basically what my 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.719 life was. What was that area of Berlin like that? 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.080 I mean I've seen pictures and it looks like something 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.520 from from a movie like Blade Runner or something. Can 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.360 you describe like what that part of West Berlin was 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.840 like at the time. Yeah, well, if you can imagine 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:01.800 the cur curtains rasa. All right, you turned off a 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:06.480 small it was like a like a mainly sort of 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:12.720 road that went from down near Checkpoint Charlie and it 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:18.160 would come up um just along the the let me 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.320 see which side of the oof that is. It would 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:26.000 come up one side of the UF up towards the 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.520 Deutsche Oba the Berlin Open House. But from hands A 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.360 student right across the Opera house, there was nothing. It 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.960 was just derelict. It was like clear clear bond sites. 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.480 So it was all just you know what used to 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.640 be rubbled. I'm sure you'd be able to see pictures 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.480 of it. And and then if you came out of 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.480 the studio of the out of the front door, if 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.080 you turned right down curt Strassa about two hundred yards 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.400 down the road, the road stopped because that was the 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.760 Berlin Wall. So you now had the Berlin Wall right 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.760 in front of you. Now on the curtains answer. Between 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.840 Handser and the Berlin Wall, there was one more building, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.240 which is which is if you look at one of 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.560 the pictures there is from Handser, I can maybe sending you. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.240 Sometimes you can see this one building out of studio 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.720 to a window. You virtually cannot see the boiling wall 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:22.560 out of the hands of studio window. So this story 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:30.040 that came about Wisconti kissing Antonio mass outside and you 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.120 know at the burling wall, and David had seen it 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:39.680 from the studio window, it's not possible. So I think 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:46.040 over the years of Heroes sort of being marked as 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.840 the work, it has been marked recently because initially it 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.720 didn't really make it. I think they also inherited a 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.720 little bit of artistic scope to where it was put together, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:03.440 make it a little more poet absolutely. Now. The other 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:09.400 thing is when it came to the backing vocals of Heroes, Uh, 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.720 this is these are my facts. Now. I'm not sure 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.160 if you'll get anybody to ever agree to this, because 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.520 the only other person that is alive that was there 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:25.240 studied Wiscontin was Tony used to like to double David's 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.640 voice in backing vocals. So so basically, if you listen 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.320 to when he was doing choruses, he would overlay the 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.720 same track two or three times in David's voice. So 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.360 if you listen to some of his earlier stuff. You know, 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:46.000 most most of David's sort of choruses are doubled, so 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.160 you hear the boy. And I had the idea that 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.640 to to get this, you know, we could be heroes 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.960 because it's like you're you're talking to two people. So 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.520 as opposed to David doing the backing vocals, there would 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.600 be a reply and so you would have that secondary 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:12.280 statement afterwards. And if you listen to the vocals, obviously 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.600 you've got that. So we did. What we decided to 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:19.520 do was double it up together. Now, Tony Wisconti claims 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.520 that he went into the studio and ablud Meyer was 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.360 at the recording desk. The actual fact was I went 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.600 into the studio with David because we've done it on 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.240 on Lust for Life, out of a bit of fun, 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.000 and Tony operated the desk and we did the backing 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.680 googles once again. In the BBC interview from a few 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.960 years back, Tony said, if you listen carefully, you can 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:49.280 hear David with an English accent and you can also 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:54.280 hear a Boston accent. Well, if you actually listen to 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.640 those two vocals that are on the backing track, which 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.600 he actually separate did for the BBC interview. There isn't 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:08.199 there isn't a Boston accent because he's not Tony. I 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.159 can hear, I can hearly clear clearly here David, and 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.720 I can clearly hear myself, and so I just have 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.680 the pleasure of going, thanks Tony, you isolated my vocals, 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:27.080 so you know, and that's it. But hey, listen it. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.080 I never got paid paid for any extra work. I 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.960 never got paid any extra money for being being the 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.560 engineer on Heroes. I never got any of the credit. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.080 It made no difference to me in my latter life 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.600 because it was about a year after that I decided 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.840 to give it up. I was fell up. I spent 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:50.879 another winter in the in the trailer. I got together 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.600 with a girl that had an apartment and she said, 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:59.280 what are you doing. You need to earn money and 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.480 I ain't. Got a job in a bar which I 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.080 was being paid twice as much as I was being 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.200 paid in the studios, and then I also started doing 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.800 pirate pirate video cassettes to all the people used to 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.680 coming to the bar, and eventually I opened up five 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:20.360 video rental shops in Berlin. So it was a complete 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:25.119 contrast to what I've been doing. But you you sang 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.560 with David Bowie on here Is. I mean that's something 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.240 that you know, that's you take that with you wherever 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:35.040 you go. Just inside wow that I mean, well, yeah, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.159 I don't know if you if you were aware of 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:43.280 the London Olympics. Hero has been played all the time 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.480 and I used to listen. I go great, So when 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.399 he comes on the radio and driving down the street 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.439 and he comes on the radio, I just yeah, okay, 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.679 here it is. I'm singing again, and and and a 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.000 few people that know me and know it it's me singing. 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.560 You know, Davi. There's so many text messages from time 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.639 to time he said, oh I just heard you singing 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:08.520 on the radio and I'm going, oh god, it sounds good. Yeah, hey, listen, 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.600 it's so simple, you know, we we can be here. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.880 It's so easy. You know, it's it's a very easy line. 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.919 But I feel more I would like to have the 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.679 credit for the idea of putting that in in a 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.600 reply to the to the main vocal, because that was 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.880 my idea. It was me saying, well, rather than doing 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.480 it this way where you're actually singing the chorus as 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.240 a chorus, why didn't you like echo it, you're getting 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.120 an echo back from it, so it was different. So yeah, 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.280 you know that was my input into that. Also. My 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:52.400 other input was I was managing a band that Antonio 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:57.960 Mars Sang was the singer in UM and we were 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.600 doing a demo in one of the studios one morning 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.280 before we did Hear It, moved an in studio three 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:08.119 before David came in to go to work in studio too, 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:15.840 and I introduced Antonio master David and Tony Wisconsin. Wow, 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:18.680 so you kicked it all off. You kicked that whole 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.879 verse off. You introduced the two. Oh, I don't know 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.440 about that. I don't know about that because, like I said, 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.960 you know, the mystery of whether David ever did see 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.560 them kissing, I don't know, but he definitely from the studio. 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:32.479 Didn't see him kissing in front of the wall, but 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.240 maybe he saw him kiss somewhere else. Now as far 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:41.879 as I know from my my knowledge was Antonio mass 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.879 had a boyfriend at that time because he was he 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.320 was the road with the band that she was singing 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.600 with s and Tony had a wife. So did they 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.960 have this illicit thing? I don't know. I never saw 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.360 him kissed. I didn't even know there was anything going on. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.240 But then you know, I was probably busy doing a 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:08.200 lot of other stuff to be and and the other 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.840 thing about that whole period with David and Jimmy, we 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:17.160 didn't socialize. So when the day was over in the studio, 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:19.760 that was it. They go their way. I went mine. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.439 Because the other thing I've got to say about it 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.320 is I wasn't a fan of David Bowie. My my, 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:32.280 you know, led Zeppelin, Deep Purple Um ten years after 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:38.760 jet O Toll. That was more hardly seen. Yeah, hardest stuff. 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.400 I mean, you know, from fifteen. I mean at fifteen, 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.520 my brother taught me to this concert with Hendrix, ten 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:49.840 years after Canned Heat procol harm Oh, I can't remember 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.040 who were at this big concert in Berlin in September 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.280 of seventy uh And of course, me being a fifteen 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:02.199 year old wanting to find out everything, I talked my 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:07.320 way into getting into the backstage area and I got 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:14.400 to meet Hendrix. He what did he say? Well, if 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.960 I give you this background, Jordan's my father worked in Berlin, 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.040 all right, which is why we lived in Berlin. And 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.359 he worked for the British military and his job was 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:29.760 listening to Russian and East German radio because it was 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.359 the Cold War period and he worked in a place 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:37.199 called Teufelsberg, which is the devil Shill now Toeutfelisberg was 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:41.359 a listening station in Berlin for the for the Allied military, 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.520 and all he would do is listen to German and 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:50.480 East East German and Russian radio conversations. I'm writing down 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:54.520 in English and send off to intelligence. There were about 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.280 a thousand people working in Teufelisberg at the time, so 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:01.760 my father wasn't doing anything like James Bond. He wasn't 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.560 all right. But then Jimmy says, what are you doing 0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:07.439 in Berlin? And I said, oh, well, I'm here with 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.840 my father. What's your father doing in Berlin? Well he's 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:12.199 just by because there was a fifteen year old I've 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:14.639 got Jimmie Henry's in front of me. You know, I 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:20.720 want to be impressive. Why you know, I probably would 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:24.760 have got battled by my father for telling anybody, but 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:28.400 that was it. And he answered me all these different questions. 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.240 So it was me wanting to find out how do 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:34.560 I play this and how do I turn into what 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.560 you are? And everything like that. You know, if you 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:38.280 want to know, what are you doing in Berlin? Why 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:40.639 are you in Berlin? Wow, it must be fantastic. So 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.040 that was it, and then unfortunately, my my brother then 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:51.320 found me and dragged me out of there. I think 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:53.879 we were probably there for another five ten minutes or something, 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:57.160 and then, you know, the next band was getting ready 0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:58.639 to play, so we were gonna have going to go 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:00.359