Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my.
Speaker 3: Ball in a frid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday,
Speaker 3: Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg bride Egg Lie, I'm about
Speaker 3: ready to run off of.
Speaker 2: The hump course.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Andy Johnson. Uh, welcome to the
Speaker 1: new year. Welcome to twenty twenty five. I've got an
Speaker 1: exciting episode. I'm joined by Gabby herse Egg, a staff
Speaker 1: writer at The Athletic, to talk about twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: in pro golf. And I'm also joined on the back
Speaker 1: half with by Joseph LaMagna and PJ Clark, our producer
Speaker 1: and Joseph one of our creators here at Fridagg Golf,
Speaker 1: to talk about TGL. That's barreling down. Just a quick
Speaker 1: little housekeeping. Uh, this is a new year at this podcast.
Speaker 1: We are going to be going to a one episode
Speaker 1: per week cadence. So every Wednesday you will get a
Speaker 1: new Fred Egg Golf episode. I will be your host,
Speaker 1: and we will you know, we'll bring Garrett Joseph far
Speaker 1: familiar faces, Tom Doak on regularly over the course of
Speaker 1: the year, but the format will be a little bit different.
Speaker 1: We'll probably have, you know, one to two guests per podcast.
Speaker 1: There will be kind of different segments, and I will
Speaker 1: be the the only host. Garrett will be working on
Speaker 1: some projects of his own that we're excited to bring
Speaker 1: to life that he will kind of kind of own
Speaker 1: and we won't be sharing this podcast, so Garrett'll kind
Speaker 1: of have his own house to live in and I'll
Speaker 1: have my own house. We won't be roommates on this podcast.
Speaker 1: So I'm super excited about this podcast and TOY twenty
Speaker 1: five will be with you every Wednesday and excited about
Speaker 1: you know, some of the topics we've got dreamed up here.
Speaker 1: So without further ado, I hope everybody had a great
Speaker 1: holiday season. I hope everybody got to spend a great
Speaker 1: time with family and friends. And welcome back to twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. In the Friday Golf Podcast, let's get to
Speaker 1: Gabby Herzig. Gabby, welcome back, Happy New Year. Are you
Speaker 1: a resolution person?
Speaker 4: That's a great question, Andy, I sometimes am, and sometimes
Speaker 4: I'm not. I last year, my New Year's resolution mainly
Speaker 4: was to become a morning person, and it worked for
Speaker 4: about the first three months of the year and we
Speaker 4: taper it off back into my normal ways of being
Speaker 4: a night ol. So that's kind of the farthest I
Speaker 4: go with New Year's resolutions, is like little things like that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, not really a resolution person. What about you?
Speaker 1: You know, I would say that I'm relatively unsuccessful. My
Speaker 1: my biggest success in recent years is I just full
Speaker 1: stop a full stopped soda. Yeah. I think I've had
Speaker 1: like one or two sodas in the last two years.
Speaker 4: That's incredible.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I just I just was like, I'm
Speaker 1: done with this and I just ended it. So I
Speaker 1: don't know if what I'm gonna do this year. I've
Speaker 1: I think I might have broken a rib a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago.
Speaker 4: Oh no, And are you okay?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been all right. It's just like a pain
Speaker 1: in the ass because you can't do anything yeah important. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you can't do like so you can't like deep
Speaker 1: brief deep deeply breathe, which is crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, breathing, it's a good one.
Speaker 1: So anyways, walking a lot, and I've really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1: I've like gone for like our walks, but like you
Speaker 1: can do stuff while you walk. You know, you can
Speaker 1: listen like I've been listening to podcasts. You could have
Speaker 1: phone calls. So I think that I think that's what
Speaker 1: I'm going to do next year, is maybe incorporate some
Speaker 1: work schedule into walks.
Speaker 4: I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: That might be that might be the new Year's resolution.
Speaker 4: I'm really jealous of the soda movement of yours though,
Speaker 4: because I have a huge sweet tooth and I would
Speaker 4: never be able to give up my soda.
Speaker 1: Well, I just thought about, like the soda thing. It
Speaker 1: just like when I thought ought about it, it was like,
Speaker 1: I never feel good after I drink one. Okay, there's better.
Speaker 1: I like the caffeine of it, but there's better ways
Speaker 1: to get caffeine, you know. I just have an espresso shot, right.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, if I'm gonna if I'm
Speaker 1: gonna use the sugar, I'd rather like, like, there are
Speaker 1: way better uses of sugar. Con totally like ice cream
Speaker 1: cookies like these are far superior delivery methods of sugar.
Speaker 1: If I'm in the sugar business.
Speaker 4: I promise I just eat all of it.
Speaker 1: It's I think that's a problem for almost all of us.
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand these people that have self control,
Speaker 1: you know, No, I don't get it. So anyways, small step.
Speaker 1: I looked at I looked at soda and just said,
Speaker 1: I'm done with this and it's worked out well. Like
Speaker 1: no diet soda, no nothing, you know. I feel like
Speaker 1: carbonated water is the other thing, like the like your
Speaker 1: Lacroix Nick sees of the world. That helps a ton too,
Speaker 1: because sometimes you just need that.
Speaker 4: Just maybe I should get into that a little more.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'll maybe I'll start. I'm taking inspiration right now. Andy,
Speaker 4: I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right. We I can't believe that it's
Speaker 1: not even the turn of the new year. It's the
Speaker 1: thirtieth when we're recording this and we have PGA Tour
Speaker 1: Golf in like three days.
Speaker 4: No, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It feels like this should be one week later than
Speaker 1: it is. But we're going to start. We're starting the year,
Speaker 1: so we've got it kicks off on January second. So
Speaker 1: I wanted to do a little season preview kind of
Speaker 1: Five things are our major championship format, but for the
Speaker 1: season five Things we're watching. I will let you start here.
Speaker 1: What's the the first or the first thing that you're
Speaker 1: you're you want to talk about with the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five PGA Tour. Actually we'll just call it men's golf season,
Speaker 1: because I've got one one that doesn't relate to the PGA.
Speaker 4: Tour, got it, I have one that doesn't relate to
Speaker 4: men's golf.
Speaker 1: So okay, maybe how about twenty twenty five golf.
Speaker 4: Freak perfect, perfect, Okay, let's see where we should start.
Speaker 4: I am going to start with the PGA Tour PIF
Speaker 4: deal and the incoming Trump administration and everything that could
Speaker 4: come with that. Do you want me to elaborate or
Speaker 4: would you like to respond?
Speaker 1: I will just say that I purposely kept this off
Speaker 1: because I figured i'd have it on right.
Speaker 4: I figured that too.
Speaker 1: I would love to hear what you're thinking about it.
Speaker 4: Yes, I am thinking that this deal is imminent. I
Speaker 4: think that after Inauguration Day we are probably going to
Speaker 4: hear talks ramp up a lot. I spoke to you
Speaker 4: earlier this fall, Andy about my article on the election
Speaker 4: and how it could impact the completion of the PJ
Speaker 4: Tour PIFF deal, and it looks like everything that's unfolded
Speaker 4: over the past three months, like all signs are pointing
Speaker 4: to that hypothesis being true. And you know, we heard
Speaker 4: even Roy McElroy say it in a press conference that
Speaker 4: Trump could usher the steal along with the DOJ hurdle
Speaker 4: in the way, and it looks like things are going
Speaker 4: to get moving in twenty twenty five. And I don't
Speaker 4: I don't know what it looks like. I think people
Speaker 4: are We know now that the Department of Justice and
Speaker 4: the Anti Trust negotiation was kind of this like holding
Speaker 4: block that has really stalled this deal and any public
Speaker 4: information surrounding the deal. But I think one giant mystery
Speaker 4: that I don't know how this is going to be
Speaker 4: figured out or where they are with it or anything,
Speaker 4: is like how this crossover between tours is going to work,
Speaker 4: Like will live players be able to come back to
Speaker 4: the PGA Tour? Will there be crossover in the other direction?
Speaker 4: Is the OWGR going to be fixed? Like? There are
Speaker 4: so many questions around this thing. But I do think
Speaker 4: something that golf fans can be a little bit more
Speaker 4: optimistic about is the actual like completion of a deal
Speaker 4: with that Department of Justice hurdle kind of becoming less
Speaker 4: of a thing with Trump in office. So it's super
Speaker 4: interesting how politics and the White House has become like
Speaker 4: a stake in pro golf. But and then that's something
Speaker 4: I have always been fascinated about as a crossover between
Speaker 4: sports and politics. So that's why I got into this
Speaker 4: whole thing. But now I actually feel like things are
Speaker 4: going to along.
Speaker 1: So it seems like it's you know, it's a very
Speaker 1: small percentage of the population, but it's a percentage of
Speaker 1: the population that incoming President Trump clearly cares about his
Speaker 1: golf because he's a big golfer, owns golf properties. But
Speaker 1: he it seems like it's like a logical like win
Speaker 1: on the board, kind of like first couple of weeks
Speaker 1: of in office, like what I got done.
Speaker 4: I really really wouldn't be surprised. Like he played golf
Speaker 4: with jam Onahan, he invited y'aser to the UFC fight,
Speaker 4: Like there are things happening. We can all see it.
Speaker 4: It's just a matter of time now, I think.
Speaker 1: So I think like one of the things that I
Speaker 1: wonder about is like, what if it's just a financial deal,
Speaker 1: And if it's just a financial deal, are we just
Speaker 1: in the same spot and he does Live continue to
Speaker 1: pick off players, Like is that is that going to
Speaker 1: be a thing because like you know, like the other
Speaker 1: aspect of this is Fox and the deal, and this
Speaker 1: is one of my things, so we can just wrap
Speaker 1: this all in here. I anticipate to talk Live PGA
Speaker 1: Tour right out of the gates. But the the Live
Speaker 1: and Fox deal like to me, like it's fascinating, Like
Speaker 1: the rights with the PGA Tour and Golf Channel are
Speaker 1: I think they're coming up fairly soon again one, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's not like that far in the future, Like
Speaker 1: it's not like a arbitrage like twenty year right steal
Speaker 1: right and this Fox thing, like if if that deal,
Speaker 1: like to me, that's a big deal for Live, like
Speaker 1: they might actually be have the product be viewable because
Speaker 1: like nobody's going to the CW to watch golf, but
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, if you're on Fox, like it
Speaker 1: could be on f S two, FS one. I doubt
Speaker 1: it's going to be on Fox. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: where it's going to be. But like if you're on
Speaker 1: FS one, you have like the ability to get a
Speaker 1: casual sports fan. Their other shows are going to have
Speaker 1: an interest in covering live golf because of like the
Speaker 1: you know, hey, we've made an investment in this, We're
Speaker 1: going to have our you know, daily talk shows cover it.
Speaker 1: So like, to me, like everything that's happened with Live,
Speaker 1: with the new CEO, the Fox deal, that tells me
Speaker 1: that Live's not going.
Speaker 4: Away, That's exactly what I was going to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you have this deal that's going to
Speaker 1: that seems eminent, it seems like it's going to happen.
Speaker 1: But to me, it makes me feel like it's only
Speaker 1: a financial deal and I could be wrong.
Speaker 4: No, I feel I feel like I feel like all
Speaker 4: signs are kind of pointing to that in a way.
Speaker 4: Like and when I heard about the Fox deal initially,
Speaker 4: I was still just like, is it really going to
Speaker 4: get casual sports fans to watch it more? Because the
Speaker 4: first four events of the year are happening in the
Speaker 4: middle of the night in the US, right yeah, And
Speaker 4: like so maybe it could be on Big Fox, but
Speaker 4: no one's going to be awake to see it. So
Speaker 4: it like clearly like there are long term plans still
Speaker 4: being made for Live Golf, and like its leadership and
Speaker 4: the broadcast schedule, Like player contracts, I think still have
Speaker 4: a few years to run out. I feel like there
Speaker 4: are still going to be two separate entities in pro golf,
Speaker 4: the PJ Tour and Live like for the next two
Speaker 4: three years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think at a minimum. And who knows, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like Yaser might be. I think there was
Speaker 1: a rumor that he was potentially investing in the European
Speaker 1: Tour too, Like is this just like they they want
Speaker 1: to have their hands in all of golf. They have
Speaker 1: like you know, they want to have a seat at
Speaker 1: the table. That seemed to be like the original intention
Speaker 1: and goal of this. But in the meantime, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's easy to dunk on live. It's it's
Speaker 1: fun to dunk on live. Like, but they do have
Speaker 1: like they had in doing your review research, they had
Speaker 1: some meaningful Sundays this year, in particular, like the tournament
Speaker 1: that went opposite Pebble when Pebble was off on Sunday
Speaker 1: because of the rain, Like they had a great leader
Speaker 1: board and like an interesting tournament. And I think like
Speaker 1: they do do a lot of stuff pretty pretty well.
Speaker 1: And and I think they have pushed golf broadcasts forward,
Speaker 1: So I do think like there are like the increase
Speaker 1: of visibility can't be just like swept under the rug
Speaker 1: with Live and you know, like I don't know the
Speaker 1: issue there. Their issue is like it seems like players
Speaker 1: go there and go worse.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that I think the like competitive nature of the
Speaker 4: league is like there's a serious problem there. But what
Speaker 4: I was going to say, what what came to mind
Speaker 4: when you were just speaking was also like the media
Speaker 4: rights argument. I feel like LIV has pushed the boundaries
Speaker 4: a lot with that and what they're doing on the
Speaker 4: Internet and on social media, like everything that Bryce and
Speaker 4: d Schambeau has done, And this kind of connects to
Speaker 4: one of my other things as well in the YouTube space,
Speaker 4: is like that is not possible really for a PGA
Speaker 4: Tour player. And now we have things like the Creator
Speaker 4: Classic and the Creator Council, and there's like there's an
Speaker 4: effort to work around the media rights agree that again
Speaker 4: like expire in twenty thirty one with the TV contracts,
Speaker 4: And I don't think we would have had such a
Speaker 4: serious effort if it weren't for Live, Like I really
Speaker 4: don't think that would have happened at all, especially at
Speaker 4: the pace that we're seeing now, Like, I still don't
Speaker 4: think the PGA Tour is going to reach the level
Speaker 4: of like openness in that sense that we ever will
Speaker 4: want it to until maybe those contracts expire and there's
Speaker 4: a renegotiation of the intellectual property. But that's another thing
Speaker 4: that we have to give like huge props to at
Speaker 4: least for the effort.
Speaker 1: I mean the TGL, which launches next week. Right, I
Speaker 1: think it's like a pretty big deal. That's what the
Speaker 1: second half of this podcast is about.
Speaker 4: But oh nice, the.
Speaker 1: That wouldn't I Like, I was thinking about it this
Speaker 1: morning when I was on a walk. That would not
Speaker 1: have existed if it wasn't for Live, Like there's no
Speaker 1: way that the PGA Tour of four years ago would
Speaker 1: get on board with the TGL, and like Rory and
Speaker 1: Tiger's financial interest in the TGL, like this would not
Speaker 1: have existed, Like this would have been like, oh, we'll
Speaker 1: we'll try and do it ourselves and completely on our
Speaker 1: own and own one. Like the only reason that this
Speaker 1: thing has gotten off the ground is because of Live,
Speaker 1: which is I I had this as another thing we'll
Speaker 1: just kind of dive in here, and this is like
Speaker 1: what you you brought up Bryson the YouTube stuff. Something
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated about is the back half of the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup team. I think we know like some locks on
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup, Like we know Xander can't lay Scottie.
Speaker 1: Are our general locks Like you could go down the
Speaker 1: owgr and get to five or six locks. My question
Speaker 1: is what does the back half look like? And one
Speaker 1: of those people was Bryson. And if Bryson is off, well,
Speaker 1: it depends on what happens this year. He's been so
Speaker 1: up and down over the course. I think he's dedicated
Speaker 1: to golf, So I think I think he's going to
Speaker 1: have like a good, a great year. I think he's
Speaker 1: going to be you know, last year was the best
Speaker 1: year of his career. Yeah, probably, I think. I mean
Speaker 1: he had some really.
Speaker 4: Good career major record at least. Yeah, And that's kind
Speaker 4: of what's most important for Ryder Cup points.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is like the Bryson dynamic with the
Speaker 1: US Ryder Cup team.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's not good, Like are you gonna.
Speaker 1: Try and bring the YouTube cameras in? Like what's the
Speaker 1: content around it? Like, I just think like he's not
Speaker 1: going to be a great chemistry fit. And I think
Speaker 1: like one of the things like we could say this
Speaker 1: or that about like the US team and does it matter,
Speaker 1: does it not? They've always had issues with chemistry.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I will. They already like barred the Netflix
Speaker 4: show from the team room, and there were all those
Speaker 4: issues with in Italy. So imagine Bryceon rolls up with
Speaker 4: his content team and they're like no, no, no, no, this
Speaker 4: is gonna work.
Speaker 1: And then there's he in a bad mood all week, like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you see him in the showdown? He looked miserable.
Speaker 4: I don't think there was something going on there.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think anybody was really happy.
Speaker 4: No, no, yeah, He's like I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 4: It's the whole point of the thing.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody enjoyed like I think there. I
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think really anybody enjoyed Bryce's company there.
Speaker 4: No. Yeah, that was a tough scene. That was a
Speaker 4: tough scene.
Speaker 1: That was a weird, weird situation.
Speaker 4: I guess I don't know what to do with bitcoin,
Speaker 4: but thank you.
Speaker 1: The I guess, Like you know, there was always like
Speaker 1: this like undercurrent of Phil and Tiger through the years
Speaker 1: of like they didn't they didn't really get along, right,
Speaker 1: They diametrically seem to see the world different ways. They
Speaker 1: are all time great competitors, competitors, and now like three
Speaker 1: years removed from live, is like very clear how different
Speaker 1: they are, right, Oh yeah, But for like twenty years
Speaker 1: we had this like you know, they're they're kind of friends,
Speaker 1: but they aren't really, yes, And it feels like that's
Speaker 1: the way like all the top players treat Bryson. Now,
Speaker 1: it's like I don't think anybody really likes him, even Brooks,
Speaker 1: who's like, you know, but they like they have to
Speaker 1: deal with him because he is one of the best
Speaker 1: players in the world and one of the one of
Speaker 1: the most influential players in the world. Maybe, like I
Speaker 1: think you could make an argument that he's like the
Speaker 1: top three most influential people in golf.
Speaker 4: I think so. I think I feel like he really
Speaker 4: he really moves the needle. Like can we just talk
Speaker 4: about for a second the series of him hitting balls
Speaker 4: over his house and was it sixteen day journey or
Speaker 4: how many days was it? I forget? But those videos
Speaker 4: were getting like ten million views, every single one of them,
Speaker 4: and like it was incredible. That's like that's the amount
Speaker 4: of engagement across platforms. I don't hundreds of millions of
Speaker 4: views and that's hard to get. Like, I think how
Speaker 4: a niche our sport is. And he's like getting outside
Speaker 4: not even just the golf bubble, but the sports bubble,
Speaker 4: and I feel like, I think that's really cool and
Speaker 4: it's really difficult to do. That's like I mean Tiger
Speaker 4: and Charlie like getting those numbers at the PNC the
Speaker 4: other week, like reminds me of that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: It's like when you're when my friend who has watched
Speaker 4: one golf tournament in their entire life, texts me a
Speaker 4: link and I'm like, how did you find this? It's
Speaker 4: because they're bursting out of that bubble that like we're
Speaker 4: all trying to kind of figure out how that's consistently done.
Speaker 1: I think if you think about like what's going on
Speaker 1: in sports, this is a greater conversation, you know, like
Speaker 1: ratings across sports for the most part, outside of the
Speaker 1: NFL or down. One of the things is that the
Speaker 1: distribution model is changing before our eyes. And distribution used
Speaker 1: to be the great the thing that sports leagues had,
Speaker 1: you know, like what their power is their distribution and
Speaker 1: If you look at the PGA Tour's YouTube channel, which
Speaker 1: is which has become a massive distribution source, is one
Speaker 1: point five million subscribers. Bryson's is one point seven. He
Speaker 1: has a more distribution on the probably the fastest growing
Speaker 1: digital channel for golf. He has a bigger distribution footprint
Speaker 1: than the PGA Tour, And you know, like that's I
Speaker 1: think like when you think about where live and you
Speaker 1: brought you made this point all right. Where Live has
Speaker 1: thrived has been the ability to allow people like Bryson
Speaker 1: the opportunity to build distribution with access and the rights
Speaker 1: deal that you've brought up multiple times in twenty thirty
Speaker 1: one greatly prohibit the ability for the PGA Tour and
Speaker 1: their players to do similar things. It prohibits people like
Speaker 1: us from doing really like anything on the grounds at
Speaker 1: a PGA Tour site. But like when you look at
Speaker 1: what it's doing to the PGA Tour, is that it
Speaker 1: is making it less relevant.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean the thing with like
Speaker 4: distribution now, and I think we actually spoke a bit
Speaker 4: about this a few months ago, is like there are
Speaker 4: just it's not so much you're just turning on the
Speaker 4: TV and being fed what the major networks or what
Speaker 4: the major leagues want you to consume. Like the consumer
Speaker 4: now of media or content or whatever you might be
Speaker 4: watching is like has all the power because you have
Speaker 4: the choice. And like, for example, like Bryson I just
Speaker 4: looked up, has two point two million followers on Instagram.
Speaker 4: The PGA Tour only has five point three million. Like
Speaker 4: we're talking about a single individual here, and like your
Speaker 4: persona and your likeness just like an nil as well,
Speaker 4: is your power is your key to distribution and access
Speaker 4: and spreading kind of what you want to spread. Bryson
Speaker 4: has the knowledge and the awareness that, like he is
Speaker 4: targeting to specific individuals, not to networks, not to leagues,
Speaker 4: not to these big entities. He's like trying to capture
Speaker 4: the attention of the thirteen year old sitting on his
Speaker 4: couch looking up trick shot videos. It's it's a totally
Speaker 4: different environment now, and the PGA Tour has in a
Speaker 4: way locked themselves into the distribution mindset of five, ten,
Speaker 4: fifteen years ago with these contracts. And I know for
Speaker 4: a fact, based on everything they're doing, they're like it
Speaker 4: feels like there's regret there in those in the signing
Speaker 4: deals and how far out they actually went, and I
Speaker 4: don't think there was like correct, it's hard to predict obviously,
Speaker 4: but there wasn't like a sense of like moving with
Speaker 4: the times. It was like, this is how things are
Speaker 4: going to be, and we're going to stick with it
Speaker 4: and we're going to sign. And obviously the tour has
Speaker 4: to make money in some way, and these TV contracts
Speaker 4: are the biggest source of income by far that they have.
Speaker 4: But in general, I feel like it is just a
Speaker 4: really tough position also for the PJ Tour to be in,
Speaker 4: because like they do have the legal obligation to follow
Speaker 4: through with these deals, but there are people within the
Speaker 4: PGA Tour I know that want to further things along
Speaker 4: any way they can. And that's why we're seeing TGL,
Speaker 4: that's why we're seeing the Creator Council, Creator Classic, better,
Speaker 4: honestly better social media presence. I feel like the Instagram,
Speaker 4: the TikTok, the Twitter have been like really good over
Speaker 4: the past few years. Those hype videos that the I
Speaker 4: forget what the player content team.
Speaker 1: It's brilliant, it does it's I like what they are,
Speaker 1: but they need to be a little bit more tailored
Speaker 1: because if you follow like five players, like he obviously
Speaker 1: like five plus players is like, oh, this is clearly
Speaker 1: being made by the same person. I think that's the
Speaker 1: unique thing with what Bryson's done is that Bryson effectively
Speaker 1: has like his own media team. Yeah, and everything fits
Speaker 1: his bit right. It is authentic. It feels authentic. We're
Speaker 1: talking about maybe the least authentic person in golf feels
Speaker 1: like the most authentic one because he has a team
Speaker 1: that only makes his stuff. The issue I think with
Speaker 1: like the tour stuff, and it's like, it's great steps,
Speaker 1: it's great progress, but the issue is like every player
Speaker 1: feels the same because it's the same people making every
Speaker 1: player stuff. And I think it it's this. This wasn't
Speaker 1: necessarily the conversation with the back half. It was Bryson
Speaker 1: was like a small piece of the back half of
Speaker 1: the of the Ryder Cup team. But it is like
Speaker 1: a it is just the the way distribution is changing
Speaker 1: is just a huge I think under current to all
Speaker 1: the news that's happening in golf, Like everybody, like every week,
Speaker 1: if it's not Rory Speith or Tiger playing an event
Speaker 1: on a Sunday, seemingly is the ratings are down mhm.
Speaker 1: So to me, I would say throw Bryson in there
Speaker 1: too for major championships. But like, to me, like this
Speaker 1: that's a distribution kind of like the power of their
Speaker 1: distribution is dwindling. And yeah, you know, like it's YouTube
Speaker 1: TV is a fascinating thing to talk about because it's
Speaker 1: like it's an algorithm, right, it knows. I'm I live
Speaker 1: in a household. My wife does not watch live television anymore.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't watch live TV if it weren't for golf personally,
Speaker 4: like the content that I consume outside of my job
Speaker 4: and golf as like a hobby in general, like it's
Speaker 4: not on live TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like so it's fascinating when I turn the
Speaker 1: TV on it it knows like the only thing getging
Speaker 1: served on the TV is is sports, right, because it's
Speaker 1: got like my like auto plays something that it thinks
Speaker 1: out like usually it's right, but it's like golf, football, basketball,
Speaker 1: that's like the only thing, and it's like it's wild
Speaker 1: right Like but like so if you think about it,
Speaker 1: it's like that there there are going to be less
Speaker 1: and less passerbys mm hmm than ever before. And I
Speaker 1: think that's really the diminut that's the rating conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, how do how does the tour make money
Speaker 1: on alternate forms of golf? How do they build properties?
Speaker 1: How do they build their YouTube page? And I think
Speaker 1: that was the big deal with the Creator Classic, but
Speaker 1: it has to be getting their big players doing things
Speaker 1: outside of the seventy two hole stroke play.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they truly have to buy in. And I feel
Speaker 4: like that's that's part of the reason why this whole
Speaker 4: PJ Tour like equity program was created too, that the
Speaker 4: players have a stake in the growth of the PJ Tour.
Speaker 4: But I don't necessarily know if we've seen the effects
Speaker 4: of that kick in yet. Like I have a I
Speaker 4: have a Q and A coming out relatively soon with
Speaker 4: Kevin Kisner, And one of the things I talked him
Speaker 4: about was like, what what conversations have you had with
Speaker 4: players about like what you think the role of media
Speaker 4: is in twenty twenty five and beyond. And he was
Speaker 4: basically saying like, we need access, like we need these
Speaker 4: to open up. And I'm like, kids, we've been saying
Speaker 4: this so long, Like finally, like we need that line
Speaker 4: of communication. Though someone like Kisner, who's been on the
Speaker 4: PGA Tour been on player boards now is a voice
Speaker 4: in media as the lead analyst for NBC, and to
Speaker 4: have someone like him actually like patting guys on the
Speaker 4: back on the range, being like, you know, come on,
Speaker 4: give me something to work with here, Like maybe even
Speaker 4: the smallest things like that can get the ball rolling.
Speaker 4: But it really all goes down to I think player
Speaker 4: buy in because the PJ Tour is now, like you said,
Speaker 4: making an effort to do these things, and they were
Speaker 4: pushed by Live to do them, and there are restrictions
Speaker 4: here and there, but everyone has to work together. And
Speaker 4: the one phrase that I've heard repeated multiple times talking
Speaker 4: to YouTubers for some of my research is the rising
Speaker 4: tide lifts all ships, and that has been something that
Speaker 4: I just don't think the PGA Tour has ever understood
Speaker 4: me be until like last year. And I feel like
Speaker 4: they're now putting the effort and starting these initiatives and
Speaker 4: programs that like actually like abide by that kind of
Speaker 4: rule in a way, and it's encouraging to see for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you compare them the way they they
Speaker 1: kind of approach people that can amplify their sport golf,
Speaker 1: like someone like me or you, or or even the players,
Speaker 1: like think about it compared to the NFL. Like a
Speaker 1: few of my friends that cover the NFL, they get
Speaker 1: like basically like right after the games, they have like
Speaker 1: this all twenty two thing that they can go in
Speaker 1: and just like clip whatever they want and randalyze the sport. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with the footage, and it's.
Speaker 4: Like, imagine what we could do.
Speaker 1: This is so additive to the fan experience of what
Speaker 1: they're doing. And it's it's like if I post a
Speaker 1: clip of a of a shot, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: dmca'd and you know, and it's going to be taken
Speaker 1: down and you know this is you know, maybe get
Speaker 1: a talking to from somebody at the tour about not
Speaker 1: doing it right. Like it's like the complete couldn't be
Speaker 1: more opposite. But did you watch the Scotti doc that
Speaker 1: they just posted on.
Speaker 4: You actually haven't watched it yet.
Speaker 1: Now to me, like that's like an example of something
Speaker 1: that was really well done that they need to do
Speaker 1: more of. But one of the illuminating things that Sean
Speaker 1: Martin talked a little bit about when he came on
Speaker 1: this and he was the producer. He did a great
Speaker 1: job with it. But like they have like cameras rolling
Speaker 1: all the time and we never see any of it.
Speaker 4: Where does it all go?
Speaker 1: It goes into the ether, Like they have all this
Speaker 1: behind the scenes footage of Scottie like playing like you know,
Speaker 1: like there's like just this funny interaction with Scotty and
Speaker 1: Shane Lowry in the scoring tent before bay Hill where
Speaker 1: Lowry makes like a comment about his beard and Scotty
Speaker 1: like equips back, and it's like that was like a
Speaker 1: great genuine moment where like why why did we just
Speaker 1: see it? Like these are things that you know, it's
Speaker 1: like I just think about like and obviously like the
Speaker 1: NFL's the gold standard comparing you know, but like you
Speaker 1: think about like all the things that the NFL does,
Speaker 1: like with the micd up players behind the scenes, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: all the stuff they do. They have the hard knocks
Speaker 1: stuff going on. They have like obviously fantasy football. We
Speaker 1: have fantasy golf, which is like it's popular, but like
Speaker 1: all the things that go into making football, like this
Speaker 1: day in day out thing that people keep in touch
Speaker 1: with for the season. I think the TGL is like
Speaker 1: a great example of a of a step and the
Speaker 1: really in the right direction for golf. Like, how do
Speaker 1: we get it more of a conversation outside of Sunday
Speaker 1: because right now, to me, it feels like it's just
Speaker 1: like so Sunday driven, Thursday, Friday, like you have to
Speaker 1: be so dedicated to tune in, but like, how do
Speaker 1: you make it more part of the conversation seven days
Speaker 1: a week?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that actually makes me think of Another kind of
Speaker 4: statistic that popped up when I was doing my YouTube
Speaker 4: golf research was I forget the exact percentage, but it
Speaker 4: was like a majority of gen zers when they consume content,
Speaker 4: they're consuming like reactionary content or like content about the
Speaker 4: main event instead of the actual main event. And that
Speaker 4: makes me think of NFL because I'm not a huge
Speaker 4: football fan, but I watch those tiktoks of the team,
Speaker 4: like social media intern like interviewing the players as they
Speaker 4: come out of the locker room about the dumbest things
Speaker 4: you can imagine. And I also watch like episodes of
Speaker 4: Hard Knocks, and those are the like that's the content
Speaker 4: around the main event, and I feel like golf doesn't
Speaker 4: really have that, Like we are we are kind of
Speaker 4: waiting for that to happen, and that's why people go
Speaker 4: to YouTube. And I feel like if the PGA Tour
Speaker 4: just bought into that idea and need their own content
Speaker 4: around the content like it could help them so much
Speaker 4: with revenue streams and with attention and just like grabbing
Speaker 4: people's eyeballs, like like those tiktoks, I can't not watch them.
Speaker 5: They're good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is a huge issue for all
Speaker 1: of sports, Like the NBA is like people care more
Speaker 1: about free agency than who wins the NBA finals, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's like, right, what do we do? Like I
Speaker 1: think golf like golf's issues, Like how do the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour's main issue is Like it feels like golf is
Speaker 1: heading into And I don't want this to sound pessimistic.
Speaker 1: I love watching PGA Tour golf like will tune into
Speaker 1: pretty much anything. But the greater undercurrent is like the
Speaker 1: majors are becoming more and more important and the live
Speaker 1: fracture has created this. It is only like push this faster.
Speaker 1: How like do you become like tennis where like people
Speaker 1: outside of the diehards like don't care what happens at
Speaker 1: Indian Wells or Cincinnati or you know, like you don't
Speaker 1: want to become that where it's only the majors and
Speaker 1: how does the how do like the PGA Tour's existential
Speaker 1: crisis is that because they own none of them?
Speaker 4: Mm hm, I want to I just wonder, like with
Speaker 4: that direction in mind, like do the Saudi's care that
Speaker 4: golf is like going in that direction? Is that a concern?
Speaker 4: Like do they really just want a seat at the table?
Speaker 4: But what is the point of having a seat at
Speaker 4: the tables for a sport that's like in decline in
Speaker 4: a lot of ways, and because of their involvement, It's
Speaker 4: just like it's so counterintuitive to think about. And I
Speaker 4: just like wish I could be a fly on the
Speaker 4: wall in some of these boardroom meetings, like what I
Speaker 4: don't know? Like what what is the direction here? Like?
Speaker 4: What is the goal?
Speaker 1: It's it's a great question. I think. I think maybe
Speaker 1: their issue right now is that a lot of their
Speaker 1: board has different goals, and those goals all pull in
Speaker 1: different directions, and just how we got here. What happens
Speaker 1: is that nothing moves in any direction because of that?
Speaker 1: All right, back, cap, let's get back to the back
Speaker 1: like that, you know, this conversation just going so you
Speaker 1: have like the live dynamic with Brooks and Bryson, And
Speaker 1: are there any other players that have like a great year?
Speaker 1: You know, obviously we know to Lare is going to
Speaker 1: believe they should be on the team regardless of what
Speaker 1: he does. But then, like my question, my bigger question
Speaker 1: is like is it like j T Spith? Does JT?
Speaker 1: I think JT has a real chance of playing his
Speaker 1: way back into like the top half, but like, is
Speaker 1: it Speth Keegan, you know, Billy Horschell type players at
Speaker 1: the back half. Maybe maybe Daniel Berger has like a
Speaker 1: resurgent year, or is it is it gonna be look
Speaker 1: really young with like Akshay Sahith, Nick Dunlap, Like to me,
Speaker 1: like the back half of that that Ryder Cup, Like
Speaker 1: I always go back to Whistling Strait and Whistling Straits,
Speaker 1: the US just demolishes Europe and the team looked just
Speaker 1: like so locked in. Yeah, like this is going to
Speaker 1: be the team for the next eight years and and
Speaker 1: Europe is screwed. And and now it's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: there might be five players from that team on this
Speaker 1: team four years removed, you know, right?
Speaker 4: It all so it felt like the Whistling Streets team,
Speaker 4: And correct me if I'm wrong. Was like kind of
Speaker 4: like from a more condensed generation like age wise. And
Speaker 4: I feel like with this with Bethpage Black coming up,
Speaker 4: like it really could go either way. Or it could
Speaker 4: be like the Old Guard only with like a couple
Speaker 4: sprinkled in. It could be like way more of the
Speaker 4: New Guard the young guys, or it could be a
Speaker 4: mix of the two, which I think would be would
Speaker 4: put us at a disadvantage because it's just like harder
Speaker 4: to connect as a team. And I feel like with
Speaker 4: the President's Cup team, actually I forget were you in Montreal? Andy?
Speaker 1: I was not.
Speaker 4: You were not in Montreal. It did feel like there
Speaker 4: was a harmony among the guys, Like it felt like
Speaker 4: a lot of them played junior off together. A lot
Speaker 4: of them like are in the same stages in life,
Speaker 4: like just having a kid or like married or all
Speaker 4: like the wives got along, and like Kisner was like
Speaker 4: vibing with everyone because there was just like kind of
Speaker 4: a humor to the team. But it is uncertain you're
Speaker 4: right with the back half of the Ryder Cup team
Speaker 4: of like which way we're gonna go?
Speaker 1: Yeah and and yeah. I always I just find myself
Speaker 1: thinking because like I don't know, I started this bit.
Speaker 1: I started covering golf in twenty fifteen and Speith was
Speaker 1: so young. JT was young, And I just find myself
Speaker 1: at this point always thinking about the wedding crashers line
Speaker 1: when they're sitting on the on the steps and they're like,
Speaker 1: and I think Owen Wilson says, we're not that young anymore.
Speaker 4: You know, That's exactly what's happening.
Speaker 1: And it's like Jordan Speth next time Ryder Cup goes
Speaker 1: through is thirty two, you know, like JT's thirty two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Xander's thirty. Xander and Scottie to me, they're obviously locks.
Speaker 1: They are bona fide locks, and probably and I think
Speaker 1: like with Xander playing so well, Can'tley had a bad
Speaker 1: year last year, but like Can'tle is going to be
Speaker 1: a lock because of their partnership. But like that bottom
Speaker 1: could you could I mean you could see somebody that
Speaker 1: like Pops the way Ludwig did, Like maybe Michael Thorpe Jornsen.
Speaker 1: You wrote an article about Michael thorbury Ornsen. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: like maybe somebody like that, who knows what Luke Clanton
Speaker 1: does over the next but like that team could it
Speaker 1: could be where Scotty and Xander are the old guys.
Speaker 4: Right, which would be insane, but I feel like they
Speaker 4: they actually did like get some good practice like at
Speaker 4: the President's Cup. And we talked to Jim Ferick about
Speaker 4: this after the win. Is like Xander, Scotti, Colin and
Speaker 4: Patrick Cantley were like the leaders in that team room,
Speaker 4: which is so funny thinking about what Whistling Streets was like.
Speaker 4: And Scotty was kind of the young new guy who
Speaker 4: came out of nowhere so it could go. But where
Speaker 4: it also could go is like Russell Henley makes the
Speaker 4: team and like Windham Clark is back then, but like
Speaker 4: that's a totally separate category in my opinion.
Speaker 1: So I mean, yeah, like I saw something I don't know.
Speaker 1: Did you see the Rock Bolton social posts of the
Speaker 1: ranking the PGA Tour players?
Speaker 4: No, but can I look all the reference.
Speaker 1: It's an Instagram post. I think the put it up
Speaker 1: they had like Keegan ranked like fifty two or something like,
Speaker 1: they had all these players driving in it was like
Speaker 1: Rob Bolton's twenty twenty five like player ranking. And I mean,
Speaker 1: but it's like Kingan's the twelfth ranked player in the
Speaker 1: world right now.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, yeah, yeah, I'm just seeing this right now.
Speaker 1: All the like, there's so many players that commented, oh random.
Speaker 1: It was like it was kind of it was I
Speaker 1: like loved it because it was like, this is an
Speaker 1: amazing content. Yeah, it's amazing content because like all the players,
Speaker 1: like clearly they posted over the holidays. All these players
Speaker 1: are on their phone and they're like, what the fuck.
Speaker 4: Like you got for twenty twenty five Rob Bolts Fantasy
Speaker 4: Rankings with the eye.
Speaker 1: Emoji's yeah, oh my god, it's incredible. It's like there
Speaker 1: are so many players that are in the In the messages.
Speaker 4: Someone just comments, all right, the f is Robbie Bolton.
Speaker 1: He's been at it a long time. I feel like
Speaker 1: I read Rob Bolton when I.
Speaker 4: Was like, yeah, legend. A lot of Weslie Bryant.
Speaker 1: Comments, Oh YouTuber, yep, he's he's ranked ahead a Tiger
Speaker 1: Tigers like one ninety one. There's an incredible piece of
Speaker 1: content that is amazing.
Speaker 4: I totally miss this.
Speaker 1: What what else do you have on your list?
Speaker 4: Okay, let me let me read pull up the list. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so mine was I had a Ryder Cup one, but
Speaker 4: mine was more the like logistical disaster that could be
Speaker 4: the Ryder Cup, if we're thinking about Long Island and
Speaker 4: Bethpage Black. As a native New Yorker, I remember actually
Speaker 4: going to the PJA Championship with my dad and my
Speaker 4: brother and we took the subway and the L I
Speaker 4: R R and the shuttle. We eventually got there, and
Speaker 4: I am worried. I'm worried about the setup in New York,
Speaker 4: the traffic. There will be some sort of chaos disaster
Speaker 4: morning evening and I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 4: it will happen, and I'm scared.
Speaker 1: I was at that p G a yeare by uh No,
Speaker 1: I was in the city. You were awful, it was.
Speaker 1: It was awful getting there. I also was at the
Speaker 1: shinnecock us Open. I and by happenstance, by my procrastination,
Speaker 1: my late booking.
Speaker 4: Uh oh no, where did you stay?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 1: I stayed east of Shinnakok in like a little bed
Speaker 1: and breakfast and it was incredible. I had like this delightful,
Speaker 1: like twelve minute drive.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: But everybody else like if you're if you're staying from
Speaker 1: west of it, you're screwed. You're done. It's awful. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it could be Solheim Cup levels.
Speaker 4: It could be. I know, I just don't know if
Speaker 4: it's going to be the train the bus and stands
Speaker 4: like something is going to go wrong. Also, the tickets
Speaker 4: were nine hundred dollars, so yeah, things don't go well,
Speaker 4: aren't going to be that happy about.
Speaker 1: That's the issue, right, is like if it was like
Speaker 1: a thirty dollars ticket of one hundred dollars ticket, one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars ticket, you expect have more sympathy.
Speaker 1: But when you spend you know, if you're a family
Speaker 1: of four and you spend thirty six hundred dollars four
Speaker 1: thousand dollars ish on you know the whole thing, you
Speaker 1: you probably expect some sort of like nice parking situation.
Speaker 4: To move, right yep. Yeah, And you also had to
Speaker 4: paper parking too on top of the ticket, so that
Speaker 4: that was mine. That was mine, I mean. And also
Speaker 4: like in relation to that, like everything that happened at
Speaker 4: the waste management last year, with like the chaos that
Speaker 4: unfolded and just like the environment that is Long Island
Speaker 4: and sports and like the debauchery that could unfold is
Speaker 4: like it actually is terrifying to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's ryder Cup. I feel like we have
Speaker 1: like I feel like waste management like boiled up to
Speaker 1: like what it was. Yeah, And it feels like the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup has been having this like it's kind of
Speaker 1: been like a home field discussion m M, where it's like,
Speaker 1: is there too much you know, in the home team's
Speaker 1: control and they haven't had like a close Ryder Cup in.
Speaker 2: A long time.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: No, And because of that, like it's been like this
Speaker 1: undertow And does Bethpage be the be the moment where
Speaker 1: it like sets it off over the over the edge?
Speaker 4: I could, Yeah, I could. I mean, like it feels
Speaker 4: like it's kind of the like this Bomber's golf course,
Speaker 4: which I think will naturally favor the US and they'll
Speaker 4: I mean, you guys, you're the course nerds here. You
Speaker 4: could talk more to this than I can. But like,
Speaker 4: I feel like you already get the course set up,
Speaker 4: advantage of putting teas in certain places, the roughs up here,
Speaker 4: down there, pin locations, et cetera. But like just the
Speaker 4: nature of that golf course I feel like automatically favors
Speaker 4: the the States.
Speaker 1: I had never been there, and Jeff Ogilvie did a
Speaker 1: preview episode with me before the PGA, and he said
Speaker 1: nobody will win this tournament. I'm paraphrasing here. He said
Speaker 1: the way more eloquently, but he's like, you have to
Speaker 1: fly at three hundred and ten yards to win this
Speaker 1: tournament at this golf course. And then it was Brooks
Speaker 1: and bryceon just kicking it out and like people are
Speaker 1: always good point they're going to point to, Like Jordan
Speaker 1: Speed finished third at that PGA. He had the best
Speaker 1: his I think it was statistically the best putting week
Speaker 1: ever and he finished like ten shots out in third.
Speaker 1: So that to the earlier Ryder Cup conversation, I think
Speaker 1: that would skew towards young players right right.
Speaker 4: Thorbjornsen is like one of the I think he's like
Speaker 4: the fifth longest hitter on tour if he was counted
Speaker 4: in the statistics, Like he doesn't even have enough rowns
Speaker 4: to count.
Speaker 1: Clanton is really long too, and I think is above
Speaker 1: average length. Like generally, the longer players are always going
Speaker 1: to be the younger players, So that's it's an interesting
Speaker 1: aspect of it. Here's a question for one time. I'm ready,
Speaker 1: what's a realistic over under for Scottie Scheffler wins and
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4: Well, the glass in the hand complicates things, wasn't it.
Speaker 4: That was one of mine.
Speaker 1: One of the weirdest tweets of the holiday breaks was
Speaker 1: the PGA tourist one hundred expects to make cover.
Speaker 4: Why was the quote from his agent?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like what why was that coming from the PGA tour.
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know, I don't know. I mean
Speaker 4: they had it like it was all perfectly like set
Speaker 4: to go, Like every social channel posted Scottie glass in
Speaker 4: his hand at the same time. It was like the
Speaker 4: announcement of the century. But that's like a pretty serious
Speaker 4: like place to get surgery.
Speaker 1: No, Like I feel like, yeah, surgery seems like a lot.
Speaker 1: It's not like he got stitches.
Speaker 4: No, No, he's like going under the knife. I I
Speaker 4: used to be laughing because like, hopefully this isn't serious,
Speaker 4: but like that is your connection to the club. And
Speaker 4: I'm kind of like not ready to say, scott he's
Speaker 4: gonna win nine times now.
Speaker 1: Pre pre glass in hand? What would you in hand hand?
Speaker 1: I mean over under? So like betting line.
Speaker 4: He won seven this year, I think with the ten
Speaker 4: with the hero. Oh, okay, nine with the Hero, nine
Speaker 4: with the hero's got us covered. I would say under
Speaker 4: seven point five.
Speaker 1: That's I was pre glass in hand. Seven and a
Speaker 1: half felt yeah, which is insane. I mean maybe six
Speaker 1: and a half. Like the thing about what's happened with
Speaker 1: the tour schedule with like all the top players, and
Speaker 1: this is like Tiger used to play the Tiger schedule
Speaker 1: and it was like all big tournaments. A couple urnaments
Speaker 1: that he played, you know, that you could say were
Speaker 1: easier fields, but for the most part, it was like
Speaker 1: he was winning a lot. Like one of the things
Speaker 1: that this designated event schedule has done is it's going
Speaker 1: to compress the best players wins over time because they
Speaker 1: play less tournaments against weak fields than ever before.
Speaker 4: That's a really good point. I never thought about that.
Speaker 1: So, like I Scott, that makes Scotty's year all the
Speaker 1: more impressive last year, but it also to me makes
Speaker 1: doing it you're and you're out more and more difficult.
Speaker 1: But it also, like I think like that one of
Speaker 1: the things that like record wise, like we are seeing
Speaker 1: career shorter for everybody else on tour, Like there's so
Speaker 1: many people that didn't win a tournament last year. Yep,
Speaker 1: Like more cow was outstanding last year and like, oh
Speaker 1: he finished runner up to Scottie like three times.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, you also think about like the guys in
Speaker 4: those field events, like it kind of changes their trajectory too,
Speaker 4: Like I think of a Jake Knap and he won twice,
Speaker 4: I think, which is pretty insane. Once. Oh maybe once.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Austin Akrot won twice.
Speaker 4: Yes, Okay, Austin Akrote won twice, and.
Speaker 1: Like like he'd be like a perfect example of like
Speaker 1: a potential Ryder Cup player. He won twice. He's like
Speaker 1: really good. Nobody knows really who he is, but he's
Speaker 1: really freaking good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. I feel like that's a really good point
Speaker 4: about Scotty though, Like I wonder, I mean, I wish
Speaker 4: we could know, like without the hand, I wonder how
Speaker 4: much of a factor that's going to be. But it
Speaker 4: really does make it all the more impressive because almost
Speaker 4: all of those events were signature, you know, marquee events,
Speaker 4: and some of them were when he you know, his
Speaker 4: back was out. It was the week after the Masters
Speaker 4: at the RBC, Like all forces were against this guy
Speaker 4: and he still won that much and with the putting
Speaker 4: in the beginning of the year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 4: It is remarkable. I think. I hope it's not. I
Speaker 4: hope it's not a huge step back for him. Like,
Speaker 4: but I go back to my conversations with Randy Smith
Speaker 4: where he talks about like how important Scotty's hands are
Speaker 4: to his golf swing, like it being like the connection
Speaker 4: between you and the club, and like he says things
Speaker 4: like Scotty's got the best pair of hands I've ever seen,
Speaker 4: and like he is a field player. So I'm just
Speaker 4: like I'm worried a little bit.
Speaker 1: About the hands. Anything hands or wrist for a golfer
Speaker 1: is like the worst worst thing's.
Speaker 4: Happened with Jordan with with Spief than the wrist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be like total golf thing that a
Speaker 1: Christmas Day. Probably, I don't have any information. Probably probably
Speaker 1: hops hops.
Speaker 4: You know, maybe like more than likely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, it's crazy. Uh what do you have next?
Speaker 4: Let's see what else do I have? We kind of
Speaker 4: had some cross contamination here. Oh this was my non
Speaker 4: men's golf. Can the LPGA make a semblance of a
Speaker 4: turnaround in twenty twenty five, That's a big.
Speaker 1: Question, I think when we talk about TV rights, that is, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the big hurdle mm hmmmm hmm.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we we did a after Molly stepped down, Brody,
Speaker 4: my colleague and I did this kind of like survey
Speaker 4: of the LPGA and the problems that it has to face,
Speaker 4: and Brody did a really nice section about the problem
Speaker 4: with the TV deal. It's basically controlled by the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4: So one thing that he actually uncovered in this reporting
Speaker 4: for this story, which I honestly didn't understand beforehand, was like, basically,
Speaker 4: the PGA Tour and the Champions Tour can get their
Speaker 4: act together on their schedules and tournaments much faster than
Speaker 4: the LPGA ever will be able to because of sponsorship Bunny.
Speaker 4: So they basically just take this reserve all the good
Speaker 4: TV slots ahead of time, and the LPGA is just
Speaker 4: stuck with with whatever is left over.
Speaker 1: It is everybody romanticizes Mike Want's tenure, and I think
Speaker 1: like move like leaps and bounds net positive net huge
Speaker 1: debt positive for the LPGA, huge debt positive. But I
Speaker 1: would say that I would also argue that one of
Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes made was bundling LPGA that, yeah, with
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, you cannot have an organization that that
Speaker 1: has ulterior motives control where your rights package.
Speaker 4: No, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And again
Speaker 4: that like twenty thirty one date is looming over our heads.
Speaker 4: But like the LPGA, I feel like in our bubbles,
Speaker 4: like the Nelly year was incredible and like everything that
Speaker 4: she did, very similarly to Scotti was like against the
Speaker 4: odds and and breaking records and just like playing machine
Speaker 4: robot golf, and like for more reasons than one, it
Speaker 4: just didn't break through, Like it didn't shine shine through
Speaker 4: for the LPGA. Nelly has gotten attention through popular media,
Speaker 4: like there have been like some wins for LPGA players,
Speaker 4: but like the league as a whole, in the product
Speaker 4: as a whole, I feel like has just been like
Speaker 4: at a standstill. And now with like a lack of
Speaker 4: leadership and searching for a new commissioner, there's a lot
Speaker 4: at stake for the LPGA, and I feel like there
Speaker 4: are a few things that could save it. And I
Speaker 4: think one of the things that I was kind of
Speaker 4: riffing about on my notes is like the Charlie Nelly
Speaker 4: kind of like rivalry drama, like at the Solheim Cup
Speaker 4: that was really exciting when they.
Speaker 1: Were Charlie needs to win more to be Charlie does.
Speaker 4: Charlie does need to win more.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, the Knicks were the bulls
Speaker 1: arrival in the nineties and they never beat the bulls, right,
Speaker 1: like we.
Speaker 4: Need some kind of drama, Like I feel like what
Speaker 4: with the w n B A Like the obviously Kitlyn
Speaker 4: the Kaitlyn Clark effect is all powerful, but there was
Speaker 4: there's also like riffs and and and spats and controversy
Speaker 4: and like lats never never get that at the LPGA.
Speaker 1: It makes me somewhat believe and this has been a
Speaker 1: scene of this entire conversation, but like to me, I
Speaker 1: would have a big question if I was in charge
Speaker 1: of the LPGA, is televised live golf the best version
Speaker 1: of product that we can put out there? And I
Speaker 1: kind of generally might say no.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would think.
Speaker 1: I think that the the LPGA, the Women's Golf has
Speaker 1: like I think like one of the things that when
Speaker 1: you're smaller, one of the nice things you have is
Speaker 1: a little bit more freedom to try stuff. When you try.
Speaker 1: If you're the big, biggest person in a space and
Speaker 1: you try something and you fail, everybody knows you fail.
Speaker 1: But when you're a smaller product, a smaller company, a
Speaker 1: smaller footprint, you have so much more ability to experiment
Speaker 1: and to be like, the LPGA should spend the next
Speaker 1: couple of years really experimenting and investing in alternative forms
Speaker 1: of golf, whether it's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays at tournaments,
Speaker 1: organizing matches at at golf, Like we can we film
Speaker 1: eight YouTube matches in a day at a really great
Speaker 1: golf course. So like I think, like, to me, the
Speaker 1: LPGA with its current constraints of like we have really
Speaker 1: bad TV windows.
Speaker 5: Mm hmm, it's.
Speaker 1: Really like the only times we break through is when
Speaker 1: we're on network TV. For the most part, I would
Speaker 1: be thinking about, like how do we build audience elsewhere
Speaker 1: because it seems really unlikely that they're going to build
Speaker 1: a huge audience through the Golf channel with really bad
Speaker 1: time air times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I mean, like I feel like,
Speaker 4: why not experiment with with YouTube golf. The LPGA doesn't
Speaker 4: have those rights restrictions, Like when you go to an
Speaker 4: LPGA event, I can post whatever I want, Like I
Speaker 4: can post videos and no one's gonna say a word.
Speaker 4: And there's definitely definitely a room there for improvement.
Speaker 1: I mean, they have two hundred and thirty thousand followers
Speaker 1: on UT Yeah, and that seems to be to be
Speaker 1: like a number. You could easily get to a million. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with the like you have the talent and the access.
Speaker 1: That's the hardest part about to get.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 4: I also do think that what could provide like a
Speaker 4: boost of energy to LPJ LPGA as well, is there
Speaker 4: is a really awesome like young contingent of American players
Speaker 4: coming up the ranks right now. Like there's like a
Speaker 4: Mari Avery Megagane, Rachel heck Is turned in is saying amateur,
Speaker 4: but Rachel Keene just turned pro. Like there there could
Speaker 4: be kind of this like burst of youth on the
Speaker 4: LPGA that I think could really help. But the LPGA
Speaker 4: has to actually like take advantage of their presence and
Speaker 4: like do the right things with them to make it work.
Speaker 1: They can't do what they did with Rojang.
Speaker 4: No they Yeah.
Speaker 1: From everything I hear like astrosk Tally is like a
Speaker 1: superstar and the superstar like going to be you know.
Speaker 1: I think like that's one of the unique things with
Speaker 1: women's golf. In the women's games, like you have to
Speaker 1: be really ready to promote superstars because they they happen
Speaker 1: at age seventeen, eighteen nineteen, Like you've got to be
Speaker 1: ready to go and and really because like it's just
Speaker 1: like the nature of the sport is it's younger and
Speaker 1: like you have like you know lydia co was was
Speaker 1: you know lydia Coo is like an incredible could have
Speaker 1: Like if you if if you'd had the right marketing,
Speaker 1: the right distribution at the start of lydio Coa's career,
Speaker 1: it's like an amazing career, but she kind of came
Speaker 1: like a little too early. But like it, you just
Speaker 1: have to be really ready for the next the next superstar, yeah.
Speaker 4: And then the and then those superstar household names don't
Speaker 4: like they don't have as much of a shelf life
Speaker 4: as the PGA Tour stars do because simply just because
Speaker 4: players step away earlier. And we saw that with Lexi
Speaker 4: Thompson this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My last thing is, uh is Rory wins the Major.
Speaker 1: If you bet on this enough, it's going to happen.
Speaker 4: Wait wait, I lost you for a sec.
Speaker 1: My last thing is Rory mc roy wins the Mature
Speaker 1: And I figure if you just if you keep betting
Speaker 1: on this enough, eventually you're going to be right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I yeah, I don't know. I I feel like
Speaker 4: the longer this this drought goes on, the harder it gets.
Speaker 4: And and like and last summer was especially tough, and
Speaker 4: like the scar tissue, there is immense So I don't
Speaker 4: want to be personally too optimistic about this because I
Speaker 4: will get my hopes up and I will be let
Speaker 4: down again. But if it is, it's always this is
Speaker 4: always a storyline. Every year, it's a storyline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could make an argument that it's like the
Speaker 1: biggest story in golf.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in golf for sure. And we have Royal Port
Speaker 4: Rush coming up.
Speaker 1: I don't like that one.
Speaker 4: You know, which one do you like? Yeah? I was
Speaker 4: going to say, like, he loves that place.
Speaker 1: Loves it, loves it. I mean, he can just hit
Speaker 1: it over every bunker.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's just I think statistically he keeps
Speaker 1: getting better. He is, he is quantitatively a better golfer.
Speaker 1: He Yeah, it's just it's a fascinating, like how many
Speaker 1: really fascinating how many years does he have left? Does
Speaker 1: he have sixteen good major championships left? I think that's
Speaker 1: that's the reality.
Speaker 4: Of it and getting one.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I feel like, statistically, is it likely
Speaker 4: to happen? No? Right, I'm sorry, I hate to be
Speaker 4: I hate to be.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: I mean, like he's roughly played forty majors. This is
Speaker 1: just back of the napkin math, right, Okay, so he's
Speaker 1: won four of forty, so he's roughly at like a
Speaker 1: ten percent clip. So statistically he should get one of
Speaker 1: the next sixteen. I mean, I think, like there's a
Speaker 1: real question like how long is he going to play
Speaker 1: at a high level? Right, and that I think he's
Speaker 1: probably got five years, four to five years.
Speaker 4: I think he has more. I mean, like he he
Speaker 4: has so much longevity. I think in his like body,
Speaker 4: like Rory never I mean maybe I'm wrong in this,
Speaker 4: but I feel like he's never injured.
Speaker 1: He had a backscare early in his career, and then
Speaker 1: they they like, I mean, they overhauled his entire fitness
Speaker 1: right right, everything.
Speaker 4: To take him for twenty grams of creatine in a day.
Speaker 1: Now, how about Scotty not knowing creatine?
Speaker 4: Well, he was like, yeah, yeah, there's been there's been
Speaker 4: a lot of research, man, right, And then Rory's like
Speaker 4: shaking his protein thing.
Speaker 1: Scotty aloof a great play like he's he's never gonna
Speaker 1: get like the Dustin Johnson treatment, but there is like
Speaker 1: some Dustin Johnson in him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I think he just like has the like
Speaker 4: blinders on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Like I remember that quote from I think was like
Speaker 4: the GQ story on Scotty was like he has he
Speaker 4: has like certain news alerts like blocked on his phone
Speaker 4: so he can't even get golf news like that takes effort.
Speaker 1: I would say, like yeah, And I think like that's
Speaker 1: it's an interesting with if you compare him to Rory,
Speaker 1: Like Rory's like hyper aware, Yes, Scotty is like completely.
Speaker 4: Unaware, hater blocker's on. Yes, it's I.
Speaker 1: Think that it goes to like that. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was Phil or whoever said it, like you
Speaker 1: have to be either like extraordinarily brilliant or yeah, complete
Speaker 1: idiot to play this game. There's nothing between yeah, and
Speaker 1: most of us fall in between.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. Oh okay. My last my bonus one that
Speaker 4: I want to mention, which is topical today on the
Speaker 4: day that we're recording, is in twenty twenty five, Tiger
Speaker 4: Woods will turn fifty. Will he play the Champion Store.
Speaker 1: I've heard well Fred Couples was saying, Yeah, he thinks
Speaker 1: he's gonna play a lot. It makes sense, especially if
Speaker 1: he can ride a cart.
Speaker 4: Totally and he won't feel like he's breaking any getting
Speaker 4: any special treatment or break any rules, like he's gonna
Speaker 4: want to break Bernard Longer's record or whoever holds.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's got a chance to touch burn.
Speaker 4: Either, but like he'll want to try. It's Tiger, you.
Speaker 1: I think you could parlay this into the Champions Tour years.
Speaker 1: The early Champions Tour years are Tiger's best chances at
Speaker 1: major championships going forward, because we just like, there's no
Speaker 1: way for this guy to play like a seventy two
Speaker 1: hole event within two weeks of a walking seventy two
Speaker 1: holes within two weeks of a major, right, and we
Speaker 1: have seen like like when he won in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: there was a build up. There was like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: contending here, he's contending here, he wins here, Like there
Speaker 1: was a real build up. And with this, like he
Speaker 1: has to play golf to contend at a major, like I.
Speaker 4: Just competitive reps in YEP.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's possible for anybody to not play
Speaker 1: golf and that just show up a major and win,
Speaker 1: Like it's I think it's them.
Speaker 4: You're flat Florida golf course and step up at Pinehurst
Speaker 4: and like expect to be fine. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: that's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Speaker 4: Like he'll be able to like get that like under pressure,
Speaker 4: like reps and experience and and like feel what his
Speaker 4: swing does like in those moments. And that's you hear
Speaker 4: players talk about that all the time, and like you
Speaker 4: never being able to replicate that in any way, no
Speaker 4: matter like how hard you try. It's just tournament golf
Speaker 4: is a different animal if you.
Speaker 1: So, I haven't played a tournament in years. One of
Speaker 1: my resolutions might be playing a golf.
Speaker 4: Tournament the same US Midam. Now that I'm thinking about it,
Speaker 4: I just I can qualify.
Speaker 1: Now that's uh, that's a great one. The one I played,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm never going to miss one of these,
Speaker 1: and I've played one qualifier.
Speaker 4: Even in college. I would just back out of the
Speaker 4: last second. I'm too scared.
Speaker 1: So anyways, like I think, like if I wouldn't play
Speaker 1: a tournament tomorrow, even though I feel like my game
Speaker 1: is good. I probably would shoot like a seventy eight,
Speaker 1: But if I played fifteen tournaments in a year that's
Speaker 1: seventy eight, that same level of play would be a
Speaker 1: seventy two, just because of like understanding what's going on.
Speaker 1: This is why, Like I think, like one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things is like when a really good club player
Speaker 1: goes and plays like a state qualifier and shoots eighty two.
Speaker 4: Right, like happens all the time.
Speaker 1: This is not playing Saturday, And of course you've played
Speaker 1: one hundred times in a row.
Speaker 4: It's a different game. You got you have to put
Speaker 4: everything out, penalty shots. You know, you could pump two
Speaker 4: balls out of bounce on the first hole like I've played.
Speaker 4: Even in like club matches or the WMGA. There's like
Speaker 4: a there's like a women's match play series that I
Speaker 4: play in every spring. The first time I did it
Speaker 4: was probably like two years out of college, and I
Speaker 4: literally forgot how to put, Like I could not put
Speaker 4: for the life and be I think I four putted
Speaker 4: and five petted. I was playing against like a seventy
Speaker 4: year old woman and like we have on the front nine.
Speaker 4: I was like, what happening. I need to have I
Speaker 4: need help like you literally just it's a different, totally
Speaker 4: different mindset, completely different, Like I can't describe like what
Speaker 4: pressure does to you on the golf course if you're
Speaker 4: not prepared for it.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, and like you have to play even at
Speaker 1: Tiger's level, the greatest player of all time, Like you know,
Speaker 1: it'd be like somebody being like, hey, we're gonna you know,
Speaker 1: Luk at doncas hasn't played all year somehow where the
Speaker 1: MAVs get to the finals and he hasn't played all year,
Speaker 1: but he's gonna play in this finals.
Speaker 2: He was stink.
Speaker 1: Sure he'd have like some good shots, he'd make a
Speaker 1: couple shots. But like if you haven't played basketball in
Speaker 1: a long time in a competitive setting, you get like winded,
Speaker 1: You feel like you have two left hands, you know,
Speaker 1: Like it is the same thing happens with golf, and
Speaker 1: it's like it doesn't just matter if you practice a
Speaker 1: bunch now, it is being in the arena. So I
Speaker 1: I actually love the Champion Tiger Champions Tour angle. All right,
Speaker 1: that does it? What do you have coming up on
Speaker 1: the athletic? Good great golf covers on the athletic?
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, Eddie. I'm stay tuned for a feature
Speaker 4: I have coming out Thursday on Xander Shoffley and his
Speaker 4: dad Stefan, kind of a inside look at how the
Speaker 4: mind of Xander was built, the mind that won his
Speaker 4: first major and then a second major two months later,
Speaker 4: kind of take a look at why Stefan stepped away,
Speaker 4: what led to that decision, what he's been up to since,
Speaker 4: and just the dynamic with Xander throughout his life and
Speaker 4: kind of the values and persistence that was instilled in
Speaker 4: him as a young player and leading him to do
Speaker 4: what he's able to do now on the biggest stages
Speaker 4: in golf. And now Kapalua number one player is getting
Speaker 4: surgery on his hand and Xander the floodgates are indeed
Speaker 4: open for Xander Shotley. He one thing that I found
Speaker 4: really interesting to talk to Stefan. I didn't know this
Speaker 4: was Xander has never regressed in his world ranking if
Speaker 4: you look at it on a year to year basis,
Speaker 4: So the ranking that he started at at the beginning
Speaker 4: of the year and the ranking he ended up at
Speaker 4: the end of the year, He's never regressed. He's only
Speaker 4: ever went up or stayed at his current ranking, and
Speaker 4: now he's number two in the world and there's only
Speaker 4: one place to go. So that's going to be your
Speaker 4: Xander primer for the week.
Speaker 1: He if you you start to look at his career,
Speaker 1: it's like a very very impressive career.
Speaker 4: It's incredible. Yeah, he just hangs around.
Speaker 1: I think he's about one win from being I think
Speaker 1: pretty much like a you can't unassailable better than JT career,
Speaker 1: probably win one big win away from that, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's already pretty much there. Like the consistency
Speaker 1: is just incredible. So I'm excited to read that.
Speaker 4: Awesome. Thank you for having me as always, Andy appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, Gabby, I have a great new year.
Speaker 4: Thank you you two.
Speaker 1: All right, before we get to PJ and Joseph, a
Speaker 1: quick little plug for clip TF. This is our membership.
Speaker 1: It is uh. We are producing a lot of work
Speaker 1: in this year and year out. This will be year
Speaker 1: three of our membership. So one of the great things
Speaker 1: about this is that you if you join now, you
Speaker 1: get access to our entire backlog of content that we've
Speaker 1: produced over the last two years. We have almost one
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Speaker 1: big library of member videos that are you know, effectively
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Speaker 1: And we're in an events season, so you get early
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Speaker 1: So if you're interested in joining, go to the fridagg
Speaker 1: dot com slash membership and you can join there. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get to PJ Clark and Joseph Lamania on TGL.
Speaker 1: All right, we got producer PJ and Frida Egg Golf's
Speaker 1: Joseph Lemania on. We're going to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the TGL. The TGL launches Tuesday of next week,
Speaker 1: so the next episode of this podcast will be out
Speaker 1: after it launches on Wednesday morning. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the TGL. This is a
Speaker 1: new form of golf. I'm not sure how many people
Speaker 1: are are know this is coming. I think a good
Speaker 1: chunk of listeners probably know. I'm going to run down
Speaker 1: just the general format real quick, and then we're going
Speaker 1: to get into kind of overarching thoughts on this and
Speaker 1: the first season of it. So there are six teams.
Speaker 1: So this is a team golf. They play in a stadium,
Speaker 1: the Sofi Center. They play a remarkably large screen. It's
Speaker 1: like simulator golf on a giant screen. And if you
Speaker 1: follow any of the TGL socials, you'll know that this
Speaker 1: is a big screen you can fit multiple dinosaurs in it.
Speaker 1: So there's six teams from different cities. You've got Boston,
Speaker 1: New York, Atlanta, La, San Francisco, and the Monster Metropolis
Speaker 1: of Jupiter, Florida. The players will all be miked up.
Speaker 1: So the way it will work is one team will
Speaker 1: play a different team, kind of like a traditional sport
Speaker 1: where you have these cities and the teams play the
Speaker 1: different teams, but they will all these contests will happen
Speaker 1: in West Palm Beach at the Sofi Center, so there's
Speaker 1: no like home stadiums. Yet the players are miked up.
Speaker 1: They have a forty second shot clock, so they have
Speaker 1: you know, effectively forty seconds from when the last shot
Speaker 1: was hit to hit. They are fifteen hole matches and
Speaker 1: the format of the matches are nine holes of triples,
Speaker 1: so each team will have three players playing. They are
Speaker 1: teams of four. Three players will play three person alternate shot,
Speaker 1: so it works just like regular alternate shot, but with
Speaker 1: three people, so you hit every third shot if you're
Speaker 1: playing in the alternate shot format. And then six holes
Speaker 1: of singles, and the way singles would work is one
Speaker 1: player plays one hole, Player two plays player two, the
Speaker 1: other team on the next hole, player three, so you'd
Speaker 1: play effectively to each player would play two holes of
Speaker 1: singles play. And then the scoring is kind of scored
Speaker 1: the way hockey is scored. So you get two points
Speaker 1: for a win, you get a point for a loss
Speaker 1: in overtime, you get a zero points for a zero
Speaker 1: points for a loss in regulation. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: the basics of it. There are big time players playing
Speaker 1: in it. Obviously, Rory and Tiger are kind of the headliners.
Speaker 1: They are they are part of the ownership group here,
Speaker 1: and Uh then you've got other big time players like Xanderschoffle,
Speaker 1: Justin Thomas uh Blood, big Obart. Those are kind of
Speaker 1: the headliners. And you know, the big kind of other
Speaker 1: part of this is players not playing. Scottie Scheffler, Jordan
Speaker 1: Speith are kind of big name players that aren't playing
Speaker 1: as well as any live player. So those are the
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts. Let's let's get into a couple of takeaways.
Speaker 1: Like I'll start this out. I think that this is
Speaker 1: kind of important and it's easy. You know, the way
Speaker 1: they've marketed it, it's been kind of fun and easy
Speaker 1: to bat it around. But I do think this kind
Speaker 1: of needs to work for pro golf. I think that
Speaker 1: pro golf desperately needs additional days to be relevant beyond
Speaker 1: Sunday right now, like weekend week out on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like I think for like even getting
Speaker 1: close to die hard fans, it's become let's tune in
Speaker 1: Sunday see who wins. That's like a that's a real
Speaker 1: core fan. If you could create something this will be
Speaker 1: played on Mondays and Tuesdays. The first matches on a
Speaker 1: Tuesday after the National Championship on ESPN. If you could
Speaker 1: create something that's really relevant on Mondays and Tuesdays, I
Speaker 1: think that's a huge, huge win for pro golf and
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. ESPN obviously is a massive microphone that
Speaker 1: has the ability to kind of build awareness of of
Speaker 1: these players, build fan fans of players. I think these
Speaker 1: are things that golf struggles with and this actually has
Speaker 1: the opportunity to satisfy that. Now on the flip side,
Speaker 1: I think it's going to need to be hard for
Speaker 1: this to succeed also, but it is and I think,
Speaker 1: like it would there are gonna be lots of takes
Speaker 1: flying after the first first match, but this is a
Speaker 1: brand new product. There is going to be a process
Speaker 1: of figuring this out. Joseph, what are your kind of
Speaker 1: initial thoughts of TGL and the direction.
Speaker 5: Is heading.
Speaker 3: Annie, My biggest take on the whole thing, I think
Speaker 3: it has a chance for success and some of the
Speaker 3: factors that you're mentioning, with it being on primetime, with
Speaker 3: it having a huge distribution network and partner in ESPN,
Speaker 3: with it being timed, with it fitting into a two
Speaker 3: hour window seeing every single shot because there's not a
Speaker 3: bunch of golf balls up in the air.
Speaker 2: I think some of.
Speaker 3: The production value should be very high. Like all of
Speaker 3: those things are working in its favor. My biggest take
Speaker 3: on this though, is that for it to succeed, the
Speaker 3: gameplay itself needs to be very compelling. And I feel
Speaker 3: that way about all sports. And this might be overly analytical,
Speaker 3: but like part of the reason the NFL is so popular,
Speaker 3: and I know people are a little tired of comparison
Speaker 3: to other sports, but the NFL gameplay is ridiculously good, right.
Speaker 3: The rules are good, it's dynamic, the gameplay evolves like
Speaker 3: they're constantly tweaking the rules considering how to change things.
Speaker 3: I think that with tel they have pro I'm cautiously
Speaker 3: optimistic about the format they've landed on with the triples
Speaker 3: and the singles, and then also like the hammer element
Speaker 3: that that maybe we can get into a little bit.
Speaker 3: Like I actually think they've done a potentially pretty good
Speaker 3: job with the gameplay. I'm very concerned about the design
Speaker 3: of the golf holes, and people might be a little
Speaker 3: bit dismissive of that, but I think this was a
Speaker 3: massive opportunity to get crazy with the golf holes and
Speaker 3: make that the star of the show. The more you're
Speaker 3: going to rely on the golfers being the stars of
Speaker 3: the show and them being interesting, miked up, that's got
Speaker 3: no chance but if.
Speaker 1: That's a great point, A great point is like nobody
Speaker 1: tunes into the NFL because of the personality of the players.
Speaker 1: Now nobody tunes into the NBA because of the personality
Speaker 1: of the players, like kind of tune into sports because
Speaker 1: of the gameplay and which.
Speaker 3: Produces those which produces those personalities and those stars like that.
Speaker 3: That is the part that I will hammer home. The
Speaker 3: gameplay itself, if it's electric, then you won't even miss
Speaker 3: that Scotti Scheffler isn't there because the guys are competitive
Speaker 3: and they're going to be into it, and it's gonna
Speaker 3: be fun to watch the different shots they're hitting. All
Speaker 3: that comes with it. If the gameplay itself isn't that compelling,
Speaker 3: and they're hanging their hats on the golfers being interesting,
Speaker 3: miked up and some of the banter, then this thing's
Speaker 3: done on arrival. So that's my overarching take.
Speaker 1: PJ your thoughts.
Speaker 6: I am most intrigued as to the ESPN buy in
Speaker 6: on this and how seriously they take it with the
Speaker 6: distribution platforms. Obviously they're giving it a lot of primetime airtime,
Speaker 6: which not like they have a ton going on between
Speaker 6: January and March on Monday and Tuesday nights. So it's
Speaker 6: nice that golf and the PGA Tour has kind of
Speaker 6: gotten that market for them, But how are they promoting
Speaker 6: it on social? How aggressive are they cross promoting it
Speaker 6: on other platforms? Like you said, the first match has
Speaker 6: the lead in from the National Championship the night before.
Speaker 6: The second week is going to be the Monday night
Speaker 6: Wildcard game for the NFL. So those are the two
Speaker 6: biggest audiences that ESPN is going to have all year,
Speaker 6: that is leading into the first two weeks of this.
Speaker 6: How many people cross over to the next night? You
Speaker 6: watch the wild Card game on Monday night and then
Speaker 6: you watch the first Jupiter Links match because they're advertising
Speaker 6: Tiger during the Wildcard game. How aggressive is ESPN doing that?
Speaker 6: How much does ESPN want this to succeed versus how
Speaker 6: much does you know the PGA Tour or the sport
Speaker 6: of golf or whoever else?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the ESPN thing. I think they are
Speaker 1: going to push it the more successful it is, right,
Speaker 1: I think they are at the point where they have
Speaker 1: you know, they they know pretty quickly what's going to
Speaker 1: be a success. They probably have a very robust analytics
Speaker 1: team that understands like what things can pop based off
Speaker 1: of early numbers. And I would say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think this is like you hit on the core
Speaker 1: points here, like if we talk about golf formatting and
Speaker 1: like how could golf draw a bigger audience like right now,
Speaker 1: like a lot of golf events happen in the summer,
Speaker 1: in the middle of weekend days. Like that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: like a captive audience. If you think about like the
Speaker 1: history of watching television, summer is just dead because like
Speaker 1: people are outside there, shows are new shows aren't being
Speaker 1: released right like when it was network television was like
Speaker 1: the primary show. No new shows were being released in
Speaker 1: the summer. Baseball is really the only sport other than
Speaker 1: golf that's that's going, and there's like you know, they
Speaker 1: kind of thrive on tonnage. There's so many games. So
Speaker 1: if you think about this, it gets golf into a
Speaker 1: window that they otherwise wouldn't be able to get to
Speaker 1: because in the winter in America, days are short, it
Speaker 1: gets dark really early. This is the indoor golf screen.
Speaker 1: Golf's the only way outside of playing in Australia that
Speaker 1: golf or let's just say South America that golf could
Speaker 1: get into this Monday night. Tuesday night, people are at home,
Speaker 1: it's winter, most of the countries inside, they they're looking
Speaker 1: for things to take up their time. This is this
Speaker 1: is the This is where I think, like it has
Speaker 1: to work for golf. I don't think you get many
Speaker 1: opportunities to be on network TV with a format in
Speaker 1: primetime during the week on the biggest sports network. There
Speaker 1: is like there. This is why I think like and
Speaker 1: I think we could get into the gameplay a little
Speaker 1: bit like why I think it has to work, and
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't know if it's necessarily
Speaker 1: set up for success year one. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are going to be kind of like what
Speaker 1: is this. They're going to have a lot of figuring
Speaker 1: out to do. And I do agree with you, Joseph,
Speaker 1: like the golf holes. It to me seems like one
Speaker 1: architect of the three they picked actually understood the task.
Speaker 1: And whether whether he's executed the task or not is
Speaker 1: another question. But you know, like, I think the golf
Speaker 1: holes are probably the for this audience that listens to
Speaker 1: this podcast, probably the most compelling thing. But like, you know,
Speaker 1: the world is their oyster. They can make anything, and
Speaker 1: you can put these these golfers in perplexing situations. If
Speaker 1: you want to look at all the golf holes, you
Speaker 1: can go to TGL dot com or TGL golf dot
Speaker 1: com and and under TGL explained there's like vignettes on
Speaker 1: every hole. The way they're going to be put together
Speaker 1: is they're gonna be mixing matched, so they have, you know,
Speaker 1: a big set of holes. It's not gonna be the
Speaker 1: same holes every time. But I think their idea is
Speaker 1: like we're gonna find some favorites that we want to have,
Speaker 1: like people are gonna love, and we're gonna have in
Speaker 1: every match the holes, Like, I definitely think that they
Speaker 1: are this is the first ear of golf holes. I
Speaker 1: think that they are keenly aware that there there are
Speaker 1: holes that are winners and losers in this batch. What
Speaker 1: are your biggest complaints with the holes, Joseph.
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, I'm skeptical that there are that many winners
Speaker 3: in this batch. Like my vision for TGL would be
Speaker 3: that you have almost no constraints. You have one massive
Speaker 3: constraint in that the green zone can only shift around
Speaker 3: a little bit and it's surrounded by the same three bunkers.
Speaker 1: Well, see, this is what I don't understand. So they've
Speaker 1: built like you, they play around the greens and on
Speaker 1: the greens in the stadium fifty yards and in fifty
Speaker 1: yards and in is on the stadium, and they have
Speaker 1: a green that's structured like a certain way, so it
Speaker 1: has the same bunkers and the same general shape. What
Speaker 1: I don't understand why can't they just like rope off
Speaker 1: part of the area for certain holes. Why can't the
Speaker 1: green get smaller or bigger? And why can't certain bunkers
Speaker 1: be turned off and certain bunkers turned on. That's why
Speaker 1: I don't get. I would like to see that.
Speaker 3: One thing I think they can do is is shrink
Speaker 3: the effective area so it's not always fifty yards and
Speaker 3: in like there's one part three where they've removed a
Speaker 3: lot of that area and it's just the green and
Speaker 3: the bunkers and like a little bit of the surrounds.
Speaker 3: But I'm with you, Andy, I wish you could move
Speaker 3: the bunkers around a little bit. I'm sure it's difficult,
Speaker 3: but to get to your question about why I think
Speaker 3: they're bad to me, like, and I mean, this is
Speaker 3: a serious architecture. Take about how you test professional golfers.
Speaker 3: But I think great architecture for professional golfers has three
Speaker 3: characteristics that I've landed on. One, there needs to be
Speaker 3: a penalty to a narrow miss and a significant penalty
Speaker 3: to a wider miss, So that would be one principle.
Speaker 3: Principal two would be players need to hit different types
Speaker 3: of shots, not just stock shots.
Speaker 2: And then the.
Speaker 3: Third would be that when the ball hits the ground
Speaker 3: there needs to be intrigue. To me, this is a
Speaker 3: lot of just stock shots into holes that don't even
Speaker 3: necessarily have great risk reward profiles, and.
Speaker 2: It's gonna get boring.
Speaker 3: I like Andy I would have I would have hazards
Speaker 3: in the air, and I'm not kidding about that, like
Speaker 3: a center line hazard in the sky that you have
Speaker 3: to curve it around one.
Speaker 1: Way or the other, like I would have been.
Speaker 3: This should be completely like hitting it into pipes, where
Speaker 3: if you hit it into the pipe, it shoots it
Speaker 3: out way down the fairway. If you miss, you're in
Speaker 3: the water. Like this should have been nuts And a
Speaker 3: lot of these holes they wouldn't be interesting in real life,
Speaker 3: let alone in simulator golf. So I just think the
Speaker 3: failure to lean.
Speaker 1: Into the Nicholas holes are flat out bad. They're flat
Speaker 1: bad holes on golf courses, and they're even worse when
Speaker 1: you consider there's no constraints. It's like they literally like
Speaker 1: gave it to their junior associate and said, scribble out
Speaker 1: some golf holes.
Speaker 3: I mean, the par threes are going to be really
Speaker 3: boring because the.
Speaker 1: Problem with the par threes is that they have the
Speaker 1: same bunker and green shape.
Speaker 3: Exactly, so that that's where I'm there's some concern.
Speaker 1: I think, like the other what you said about the
Speaker 1: ball hitting the ground and rolling, everything I've seen from it.
Speaker 1: Every shot i've seen hit in in the screen, the
Speaker 1: giant screen, the three Dinosaurs can fitted every every shot
Speaker 1: I've seen the ball has like kind of landed really softly,
Speaker 1: And I would love to see, like, can we just
Speaker 1: like ramp up, like we know the best golf is
Speaker 1: when the greens are firm and the ball's rolling. Could
Speaker 1: we just like set the simulator to produce us baked
Speaker 1: out links conditions and it in the format would infinitely
Speaker 1: get better.
Speaker 3: Andy, I think there should be like trampolines in some
Speaker 3: of the fair ways, like speed slots. I'm not kidding
Speaker 3: where you hit a certain.
Speaker 1: Spot, you could put a cart path right down the middle,
Speaker 1: like the Design Disasters hole at hicksything else you.
Speaker 3: Kid, But I'm I'm that's what this should look like
Speaker 3: to me, like completely alternative form of golf. When you
Speaker 3: turned a lot of these holes on that you mentioned
Speaker 3: tglgolf dot com backslash holes. You can look at them.
Speaker 3: It's not gonna play dynamically, and to me, that's a
Speaker 3: colossal failure in a simulator league where you should there
Speaker 3: are virtually no constraints besides the green zone. So that's
Speaker 3: that's a big take for me.
Speaker 5: PJ.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything that you're skeptical or bullish about.
Speaker 6: I am wondering how the forty second shot clock is
Speaker 6: going to work for the TV aspect of this, because
Speaker 6: forty seconds in reality is not that much time.
Speaker 1: So if we are you think that's about the Is
Speaker 1: that the play clock for the NFL forty seconds?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so quick.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you gotta put this out.
Speaker 6: We gotta take a time out, ten second runoff, all
Speaker 6: that good stuff. But seriously, like, if this is based
Speaker 6: on the personalities of the players and they're gonna want
Speaker 6: these viral clips of you know, Tom Kim talking to
Speaker 6: Kevin Kisner or whatever. If it's only forty seconds between
Speaker 6: each shot, how much time do you realistically have for
Speaker 6: these made for TV moments outside of the actual golf
Speaker 6: shots themselves. I know, I'm sure there's gonna be you know,
Speaker 6: mid match interviews and whatnot, Like there's going to be
Speaker 6: obviously a TV aspect to this, but the forty second
Speaker 6: shot clock is is well A I think it's gonna
Speaker 6: be interesting to see if there are any nega of
Speaker 6: reactions to this from the players, because then maybe we
Speaker 6: can get a shot clock and actual golf at some point,
Speaker 6: But then, b how does that work out for the
Speaker 6: television product and the miked up aspect of this?
Speaker 1: I think I think for the television product, and I've
Speaker 1: always said this with regards to shot clock and golf,
Speaker 1: it's like groundbreaking because like, for the first time in golf,
Speaker 1: an announcer knows when somebody's get hit a shot, and
Speaker 1: you can build your entire like discourse and graphics and
Speaker 1: everything the camera, like how you interchange. Like this is
Speaker 1: going to be an infinitely better television product for golf
Speaker 1: because it's a fix it's a fixed location like everybody
Speaker 1: complains about golf coverage. It's like, well, like they're having
Speaker 1: to broadcast two hundred acres of a field, like most
Speaker 1: sports are on a court, right, Like, so it's already
Speaker 1: an infinitely hard job because like you have eighteen playing
Speaker 1: fields effectively that are massive, that are bigger than any
Speaker 1: other playing field, and you don't know when the players
Speaker 1: are going to pull the triggers. The other thing here,
Speaker 1: you have an effective court one playing field, and you
Speaker 1: know exactly when the players are going to hit the shot,
Speaker 1: so that I think the telecast as they learn, like
Speaker 1: I'd be curious, like have they done practice matches with
Speaker 1: the broadcast partner. I assume they have. They they have
Speaker 1: to have because like you could really build, Like I
Speaker 1: think this is another thing to be bullish about. Like
Speaker 1: with the way that this is set up, I think
Speaker 1: you can build probably as you know, you're not going
Speaker 1: to reach a major, but you're going to build a
Speaker 1: pretty compelling golf product.
Speaker 3: Especially if the gameplay is good. And that's where I'm
Speaker 3: optimistic about the role that Roberto Castro has played in
Speaker 3: some of this a frequent Friday guests. I know he's
Speaker 3: run through this with buddies and getting it all set
Speaker 3: up and engineering what this format should look like. The
Speaker 3: hammer part of this is pretty cool, Andy, Like, at any.
Speaker 1: Point, can you explain the hammer part of this forever?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So, at any given point, one of the teams has
Speaker 3: possession of the hammer, And my understanding is they can
Speaker 3: throw it at any point during the hole when they
Speaker 3: feel like they have an advantage, and it adds a
Speaker 3: point to the point value that they're playing that hole for,
Speaker 3: and if their opponent accepts it, it adds that point
Speaker 3: value to the whole. If the opponent declines it, then
Speaker 3: they can see the hole and they can see the
Speaker 3: point to the other team, so and then the possession
Speaker 3: of the hammer changes into the other team. It's like,
Speaker 3: again thinking that it could have as much complexity as
Speaker 3: a sport like the NFL, Like, it's not going to
Speaker 3: have that, but there might be these little things baked in,
Speaker 3: like when do you take your time outs? Who hits
Speaker 3: on each hole? Like when do you throw the hammer?
Speaker 3: There's a referee, like it actually has some additional elements
Speaker 3: for people to sink their teeth into that I think
Speaker 3: could be pretty compelling, and I think the game format
Speaker 3: could end up being pretty fast paced and compelling. Right,
Speaker 3: it's mainly the golf holes. I'm skeptical of the rest
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 1: Kind of makes sense, yeah, I think like that's where
Speaker 1: I think there should be a lot of optimism. Do
Speaker 1: you guys have a favorite team? Who's who's your team?
Speaker 1: I'm wearing my Ballfrogs hat. I was the you know,
Speaker 1: I think I was maybe fan number one of the
Speaker 1: of the Frogs. Do you guys have teams picked out?
Speaker 2: I mean, go ahead, PJ.
Speaker 6: I'm riding with my my ny GC. I have to,
Speaker 6: you know, slidarity with Steve cohen selidarity with young a
Speaker 6: long islander.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to stick with your roots.
Speaker 6: I got a hometown team, unlike you who does not
Speaker 6: have a hometown team somehow, but the third the third
Speaker 6: biggest media market in the country doesn't have doesn't have
Speaker 6: a team.
Speaker 1: I could have been an SF fan, though. My issue
Speaker 1: is that our star player has never been to the
Speaker 1: city that is.
Speaker 5: That is a real issue.
Speaker 3: I'm New York GC through and through as well.
Speaker 2: PJ.
Speaker 3: I'm not from there originally, but have some roots out there,
Speaker 3: and I do believe if there's ever been a golfer
Speaker 3: who is as positioned for simulator golf as Cam Young,
Speaker 3: then I'd be shocked if you talk about a player
Speaker 3: whose struggles come on and around the green I think
Speaker 3: the green zone is a massive band aid on that,
Speaker 3: and Cam Young is just I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: going to be a good thing for him or a
Speaker 3: bad thing for him. If he's like he's going to
Speaker 3: become the punchline of a joke, if he's just absolutely
Speaker 3: elite at simulator golf and then finishes T eight in
Speaker 3: majors and can never win a PGA Tour event. But
Speaker 3: I think that might be exactly what we see.
Speaker 1: We're going to have a big New York Boston rivalry.
Speaker 1: I mean this is I've never never I've only experienced
Speaker 1: this from the outside. Now now I'm in the throes
Speaker 1: of it with my Ballfrogs.
Speaker 6: I don't know, are people going to turn on Keegan
Speaker 6: at best page if the ball Frogs have a great
Speaker 6: seasons as the headliner of a of a Boston team.
Speaker 1: That's the thing He's got, the Saint John's connection. Though
Speaker 1: he can play. Has anybody ever you know played both
Speaker 1: sides of the Boston New York rivalry as much as Belle's.
Speaker 6: Keegan no no, Johnny Damon, Keegan Bradley.
Speaker 1: That's that's the list. All right, Well we'll be excited.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna be locked in uh for this on
Speaker 1: uh on Tuesday. What is it the eighth?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: Seven seventh seven seventh seventh?
Speaker 2: Can wait?
Speaker 3: Can I throw one quick question at you guys?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Which is the golfer that complains the most about where
Speaker 3: his ball ends up that thinks the simulator technology is
Speaker 3: not doing him justice? That Hey, I didn't hit that
Speaker 3: ball there, the technology is a little off. Who whinds
Speaker 3: the most? That's what I'm probably most interested in.
Speaker 6: It's a shame that Yryl Hatton is not involved in
Speaker 6: this because that was the first that's the first answer
Speaker 6: they carry to my head.
Speaker 1: I Mean, here's like the thing. I you scroll through
Speaker 1: this like list of players, right, and if we could
Speaker 1: this is not a if we could just like take
Speaker 1: a wand and and erase Lucas Glover. Let's say, I
Speaker 1: don't know who else I want to pick out, but
Speaker 1: like Lucas Glover a couple others from this list, and
Speaker 1: we could replace it with like Bryson Brooks and Tyrrell.
Speaker 1: It would get a lot more compelling Phil. Phil would
Speaker 1: be electric in this type of atmosphere. Like you think about,
Speaker 1: like what this could be with some of the personalities
Speaker 1: that are on Live, some of the I would I
Speaker 1: would say, quote unquote what people would label as bad actors.
Speaker 1: I think, like one other thing that I brought up
Speaker 1: in a conversation with Gabby on the other part of
Speaker 1: this podcast, it's important to note this wouldn't exist without Live.
Speaker 1: We would never have gotten here where this even is
Speaker 1: a possibility. Without Live, the tour would have done what
Speaker 1: they always do, said oh that's a good idea, and
Speaker 1: they would have like taken it to the conference rooms
Speaker 1: and it would have died or morphed into something awful.
Speaker 1: The fact that this exists is purely because of the
Speaker 1: position that that the tour was in, and you know
Speaker 1: that allowed Tiger and Rory to really create this.
Speaker 2: You know, not the answer I expected?
Speaker 3: What not the answer I expected to which Golfer will
Speaker 3: complain the most about where the ball ends up.
Speaker 2: But I think a good point I'll take.
Speaker 5: I'll take justin Rose to answer your question.
Speaker 1: Maddy fitz has got to be high on the on
Speaker 1: the list here.
Speaker 6: Well, what are the driver rules for this if he
Speaker 6: cracks his driver, is he allowed to switch it out?
Speaker 5: Where does this we need the referetion?
Speaker 1: Paul out his notebook and be like, look, I've hit
Speaker 1: the shot four times in the last two years. Here
Speaker 1: the logs.
Speaker 2: Does does Fitzpatrick long these shots? Is a great I
Speaker 2: think she does?
Speaker 1: He does?
Speaker 2: He has to, right.
Speaker 1: That's the bit. There's the good news is there's a
Speaker 1: there's a there's a reporter that will tell us if
Speaker 1: he does or doesn't. You know, Danny Rapps is is
Speaker 1: ever president on the Matty fitz beat, so he will
Speaker 1: he will let us know. I think I was gonna
Speaker 1: say what Going back to the holes, one thing I
Speaker 1: noticed this morning when I was going through them is
Speaker 1: that I think I think Pisa has done the best
Speaker 1: job of every architect at at these holes. But he
Speaker 1: did designed effectively the same hole three times. Did you
Speaker 1: notice this, Joseph. He's got three three split fairway holes
Speaker 1: with like a narrow center. He did this three times.
Speaker 1: There are three of them. There's a par five a short,
Speaker 1: part four in a in a long with effectively like
Speaker 1: the same same concept.
Speaker 3: He also did basically the same thing with some of
Speaker 3: the triangle holes, like some of them are almost identical.
Speaker 3: Like the Pisa understood that this should be out of
Speaker 3: the box in a little bit nuts, he did not
Speaker 3: understand risk reward profile of the modern golfer. So like
Speaker 3: that's the plus and minus going on with Pisa there
Speaker 3: the other two. I honestly don't think bo Welling did
Speaker 3: a terrible job, but it's still like very conventional. And
Speaker 3: then the Nicholas design gets an f it's it's it's
Speaker 3: bad in real life and even scores lower marks for.
Speaker 2: The lack of creativity.
Speaker 3: So that's how I'm evaluating these three architects before this
Speaker 3: thing gets underway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking at the Pisa holes and I like,
Speaker 1: like his overarching thoughts on them. But then I was
Speaker 1: looking at them and I'm like, wait, these are like
Speaker 1: the same holes, just like different yardages. I think one
Speaker 1: of the biggest mistakes that all the architects made was
Speaker 1: the yardages. Like these yardages should be insanely long, like
Speaker 1: there should be there should be five hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: yard par fours like this was the like the reason
Speaker 1: that we don't have eight thousand and nine thousand yard
Speaker 1: major championship golf courses, which is what we absolutely need
Speaker 1: is because of of like resources space setting a bad
Speaker 1: example like paining golf in a completely unsustainable are like realm.
Speaker 1: But like if you're a golf architect, you should absolutely
Speaker 1: understand that if you want holes to actually play out
Speaker 1: the way you want them, these holes need to be
Speaker 1: insanely long because these guys hit it three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty yards like these holes should be We should be
Speaker 1: seeing guys pulling three wood hitting it, especially with the
Speaker 1: limited amount that you could do at the green, Like
Speaker 1: you have a very constrained green. So if I want
Speaker 1: to create strategy, I have to build distance, and I
Speaker 1: think that's like probably for me, the most disappointing thing
Speaker 1: is that, like you see, it's like the yardages just
Speaker 1: do not match up. There's a six hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: seven yard par five that's great, but like the longest
Speaker 1: par four is let's see, I think it's five thirty five,
Speaker 1: But that one's that one's set up elevation, that's alpine,
Speaker 1: that's a Nicholas design, that's in the mountains.
Speaker 3: You could have eight hundred yard holes where there's opportunities
Speaker 3: like through I'll keep saying, like pipes and stuff to
Speaker 3: maybe pipe it up like other. Yes, that's what it
Speaker 3: should look, a little Mario golf esque like it really
Speaker 3: I believe that that's the way that they should go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I I've thought about holes, I've
Speaker 1: sketched some out. I did a posts. You did one too, Joseph.
Speaker 1: I did like a design. One of the things I
Speaker 1: thought about is like something that would work really well
Speaker 1: with simulator golf is that would mimic real life golf
Speaker 1: is trees. Trees would work really well, especially for pro golfers,
Speaker 1: Like you could make a whole look like a real
Speaker 1: golf hole, but use trees as hazards and to create
Speaker 1: different lines. Like to me, like, yeah, I the I
Speaker 1: think the bunkers are going to be like the least
Speaker 1: interesting aspect of this because it's like it's like perfect
Speaker 1: sand and it's like effectively like a little sandbox that
Speaker 1: you drop a ball in and you have a flat
Speaker 1: you don't drop you place a ball in, you have
Speaker 1: a perfect lie, a perfect flat lie. So like that
Speaker 1: to me, like immediately, if I'm a golf architect and
Speaker 1: I see that as the way the sand is, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's not going to be very interesting. These guys are
Speaker 1: so good. It's it's not a relevant hazard. So like,
Speaker 1: what are the things that like I can put that
Speaker 1: are going to make Like trees to me would scream
Speaker 1: as a great, great thing, Like okay, I could put
Speaker 1: I could put a three hundred foot redwood tree anywhere.
Speaker 3: Force the guys to curve it, Yes, force them to
Speaker 3: curve the ball.
Speaker 1: It's it. I think that's what I like about pieces
Speaker 1: holes is that there is like some you have to
Speaker 1: make a decision what we don't see enough. Like so
Speaker 1: when you combine the timer the shot clock with really
Speaker 1: good design, I think like what you're going to see
Speaker 1: is what you see with other sports, where players are
Speaker 1: going to have to react quickly and make intentional decisions.
Speaker 1: And I think that's how it wins. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: any closing thoughts before we get out of here.
Speaker 5: I'm I'm excited.
Speaker 6: I actually I actually think this this whether it goes
Speaker 6: in a positive very negative direction, this TVD, But I
Speaker 6: actually I think this is going to be at least
Speaker 6: for the first couple of weeks, it's gonna be pretty
Speaker 6: fun to watch along to see to see what happens
Speaker 6: at the outset here.
Speaker 2: I'm super excited.
Speaker 3: I think that the opportunity for funny stuff, whether it's
Speaker 3: jokes about golfers who do well on a simulator but
Speaker 3: not in real life. Like, there's gonna there's gonna be
Speaker 3: so much content to come from this, and it's gonna
Speaker 3: be something everyone's watching at the same time. I'm pretty excited.
Speaker 3: I think it could work, And if they tweaked the
Speaker 3: golf holes and made them a lot more creative, you
Speaker 3: might actually have like a pretty legit product.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the golf holes are are the obvious kind
Speaker 1: of flaw here. I think like there's got to be
Speaker 1: somebody in the room that tells them or that you know,
Speaker 1: evaluates these holes before you put them on the screen.
Speaker 1: To me, it just seems like every hole was rubber stamped.
Speaker 1: It was just like oh this, thanks for sending this in.
Speaker 1: You know, there needs to be some sort of vetting
Speaker 1: process of like, okay, let's try this. Like that's the
Speaker 1: beauty of this. It takes a second to build them,
Speaker 1: and then you can have Roberto Castro play them or
Speaker 1: Subway play them and in literally two minutes and be
Speaker 1: like Okay, this this works, this doesn't work. This is
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do every time. Here so all right,
Speaker 1: I'm excited this is gonna kick off next week and
Speaker 1: we'll I'm sure this will be I think this will be.
Speaker 1: Whether it's great, whether it's meh, or whether it's lackluster,
Speaker 1: it will be a big talking point of the golf
Speaker 1: world the first quarter of this year. All Right, big
Speaker 1: thanks to PJ for producing this episode. We will be
Speaker 1: back next Wednesday with a new episode of the Friday
Speaker 1: a Golf Podcast. Thank you to everybody for the support
Speaker 1: and I hope you have a great start to your
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five