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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House to works dot Com. Hey, welcome to podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is Molly and then Kristen. Kristen. From a young age,

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Speaker 1: I learned a lesson from the rock group Tears for Fears. Okay,

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Speaker 1: everybody wants to rule the world? Yeah, I know I do,

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Speaker 1: and I think the best way to achieve world dominations

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Speaker 1: with the Secret Society having your back. Yeah, and thus

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Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about Freemason and how we

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Speaker 1: can take over the world. Yes, because that's what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people think, is that Freemasons are going to

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Speaker 1: take over the world. And we're not going to get

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Speaker 1: into theories and conspiracy. We're gonna leave that to the

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Speaker 1: other podcast folks. But you know they're out there. You

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Speaker 1: hear Freemason Secret Society. You think something's going on there,

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Speaker 1: happening in those lodges. But Molly, it might be a

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Speaker 1: little hard for us to take over the world via Freemasonry,

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Speaker 1: right because uh, we're girls or women. Right old constitution

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Speaker 1: that they wrote for themselves. Dr James Anderson, he laid

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Speaker 1: it out there plain and simple men. No women, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: shall I shall I? Shall I quote it? Of course,

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Speaker 1: the persons admitted as members of a lodge must be

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Speaker 1: good and true men, free born. Okay, this is getting

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Speaker 1: test here and test here, and of a mature and

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Speaker 1: discreet age. No bondsmen, no women, no immoral or scandalous men,

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Speaker 1: but of good reports. So the Mason's pretty restrictive. But

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Speaker 1: what's interesting is that there are groups that allow women

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Speaker 1: or are women focused associated with the Masons, like Order

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Speaker 1: of the Eastern Star is probably the most famous one.

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Speaker 1: So we were kind of, you know, nosing around in

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Speaker 1: those groups. And what's so interesting is when you start

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Speaker 1: bringing up women and Freemasons together, things get weird. Things

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Speaker 1: get kind of weird. Well, before we get into women

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Speaker 1: in Freemasons, maybe we should just give a very brief

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Speaker 1: modern history because there's no need to go into like

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Speaker 1: they kind of vast conspiracy theories of how Freemasons were

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Speaker 1: started way back in the day. But in the seventeen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: the Freemasons really started as a trade Guild's as simple

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Speaker 1: as that, guys um. It was an organization of men

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Speaker 1: um who favored religious tolerance over the strict dictates of

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. They enjoyed intellectual discourse with their brothers.

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Speaker 1: It was very fashionable. And this all came out of

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Speaker 1: masonry guilds because it was there were rough masons who

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Speaker 1: worked with ordinary stone, and then there were mason's who

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Speaker 1: card more intricate designs into softer stones called freestones, hence

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Speaker 1: the freemasons and so. And they would have these lodges,

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Speaker 1: they would go hang out, they could store their tools,

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Speaker 1: they could sup together after the trade stonemason ng skills.

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Speaker 1: And of course women didn't hold masonry positions back in

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Speaker 1: the olden days. Yeah, we didn't do that stuff. And

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Speaker 1: so then it kind of snowballs into these more high

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Speaker 1: society gentlemen's clubs in the eighteenth century. Now, to really

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Speaker 1: understand um the role of women, it's going to take

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Speaker 1: a sort of country by country view, because we're gonna

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Speaker 1: go into France in a minute. But first let's go

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Speaker 1: to probably the most famous female freemason that exists. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Aldworth born Elizabeth Elizabeth St. Lizzie, And she provides

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Speaker 1: instruction to all of us on how to get into

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Speaker 1: a secret society if they won't let you in, and

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Speaker 1: that is hide, just hide, hide for a while, find

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Speaker 1: out where they meet, find a really good hiding place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're just gonna hang out there, very quiet. So up

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Speaker 1: it all, up, everything that's going on. Try to get

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Speaker 1: some initiation information, try to get some secret passwords and handshakes.

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Speaker 1: Accumulate as much information as possible. Then one day when

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Speaker 1: you're found, when you were found, will be found when

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Speaker 1: you were found, Let them know how much information you

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Speaker 1: know and how many secrets you could spell. So therefore

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Speaker 1: it will have to you essentially kind of blackmail them

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Speaker 1: into initiating you so that you will therefore have to

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Speaker 1: take their oath of secrecy so that you won't spilled beans.

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Speaker 1: It's the best, it's the best pathway into organization membership

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Speaker 1: that I've ever heard of. And you know, apparently women

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Speaker 1: sort of all over we're doing this, hiding in clocks, hiding,

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Speaker 1: you know, behind walls to get the secrets because when

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Speaker 1: something secret, everyone wants to know. Everybody wants to know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but Elizabeth Aldworth really paved the way in Ireland. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: once they found her, they had no choice but to

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Speaker 1: induct her. And uh, she ended up you know, being

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Speaker 1: a pretty prompt member in her lodge, and even when

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Speaker 1: she was buried, she had the incident engraved on her tombstone,

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Speaker 1: so that everybody knew that, yes, she was a lady Mason.

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Speaker 1: But she did not pave some pathway. No, the Masons

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Speaker 1: were not thrilled about having to induct her. No, and

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Speaker 1: same and as we'll find out later, a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of traditional Masons today still do not think

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Speaker 1: very highly of miss Aldworth. But let's go to France,

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Speaker 1: as I promised we would, because I think it's really

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Speaker 1: interesting the relationship of Masons and women in France. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because around sev hundreds we have a little something that

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Speaker 1: happens called the Enlightenment. And from the Enlightenment we also

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Speaker 1: have the very earliest roots of women's rights. And in

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Speaker 1: France for a little bit of enlightenment refresher. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: upper class us as would organize these things called salons,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of time it was anupper class woman

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Speaker 1: who would facilitate discussions in their homes of politics and

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Speaker 1: religion and you know, rights and all all these types

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Speaker 1: of things. And they would have these intellectual discourses, exchanging

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Speaker 1: of ideas and um Mason's at the time and France

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Speaker 1: were sort of other. They were kind of similar to

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Speaker 1: salons in the time, wouldn't you say, MOLLI, Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was you know, people getting together of a certain class talking,

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Speaker 1: sharing these ideas of the day. And essentially, because the

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Speaker 1: Enlightenment ideals were sweeping through Europe at the same time

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Speaker 1: that the Masons were, it only made sense that I

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Speaker 1: think women started to attend. And it was kind of,

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Speaker 1: I think probably seen as a sign of being, you know,

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Speaker 1: a little enlightened to let a woman come in. Now,

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Speaker 1: these weren't strictly Masonic lodges. They were kind of, as

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Speaker 1: a scholar K. C. R. Hoffmeyer calls them quasi Masonic.

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Speaker 1: They had some of the rituals, they had sort of

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Speaker 1: the same organizational set up, and they were eventially, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of loosely recognized by the official Masons um. But

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Speaker 1: she even points out in a paper entitled Women in

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Speaker 1: Freemasonry in France and Germany, the European Freemasonry was a

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Speaker 1: symbol of the Enlightenment in the public sphere. That was

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Speaker 1: just how important these, uh, these lodge gatherings were. And

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Speaker 1: of course, just like women in the salons, upper class

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Speaker 1: women in particular wanted to be part of these discussions

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Speaker 1: as well, and in these lodges, the women were able

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Speaker 1: to take on leadership roles. They sometimes lead the ritual,

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Speaker 1: even though sometimes the real Mason's not The quasi ones

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Speaker 1: would kind of say, well, we're adapting this because you're

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Speaker 1: gonna do it. It's not the real thing. That's pretty close.

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Speaker 1: But I think that what was interesting is they actually

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Speaker 1: ended up being pretty good ritual keepers. At one point,

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Speaker 1: there was an actor that the men wanted to change

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Speaker 1: the ritual a little bit, and the women were like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not how we do think. Yeah, they wanted they

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Speaker 1: didn't want any exceptions made for them. They wanted to

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Speaker 1: be fully initiated, and that happens I think even today

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Speaker 1: with co Macenic groups where the some of the initiation

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Speaker 1: rights will be deliberately different from traditional Masonic initiations. Now,

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Speaker 1: one of these groups in France at this time was

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Speaker 1: the Order of the Amazons, and you could get the

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Speaker 1: high degree of amazon Ry angel as Um, where you

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Speaker 1: were initiated by a queen and you were called on

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Speaker 1: to recognize the injustice of men, to throw off the

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Speaker 1: masculine yoke to dominate a marriage, and to claim equal

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Speaker 1: wealth with men, among other things, and these were the

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Speaker 1: kind of ideals that were dominating female freemasonry. Now, maybe

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Speaker 1: this is why I didn't catch on worldwide, because maybe

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Speaker 1: the men didn't want to have a group or women

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Speaker 1: were throwing off the masculine yoke. Now, statements like that,

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Speaker 1: and according to this Huffmeier paper really made French Masons

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Speaker 1: almost too political for their own good, because she offers

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Speaker 1: the example of what was going on with German Masons

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Speaker 1: at the same time, and Germans were fiercely German Masons

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Speaker 1: at least were fiercely a political and they weren't quite

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Speaker 1: as open to allowing women in because they just kind

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Speaker 1: of wanted to avoid uh statement, Yeah, that exact statement

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Speaker 1: of of equality. Right. And you know, I think that

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Speaker 1: I was asking Christen about this earlier, and I can't

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Speaker 1: remember where I read this, but I definitely did. I

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Speaker 1: think there are some Masonic lodges where the rule is

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Speaker 1: you don't talk about politics or religion, which made the

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Speaker 1: made the fact that these French Freemasons were talking about

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Speaker 1: such feminist ideals very I mean, that's what makes it

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Speaker 1: so noteworthy, that's why we'recovering it. But I thought that

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Speaker 1: um a scholar named Paul Rich, who wrote a paper

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Speaker 1: called Female Freemason's Gender, Democracy and Fraternalism, made this really

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Speaker 1: interesting point about the purpose that having women in freemason

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Speaker 1: we could possibly serve. Today. He talks about how membership

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Speaker 1: and social organizations is really important to democracy, and if

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Speaker 1: you've read the book Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam, that's

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Speaker 1: what it goes over time and time again, is that

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Speaker 1: if our membership in organizations drops, then you know, we

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Speaker 1: just we divorce ourselves from society, and that's ultimately probably

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Speaker 1: bad for society. And so he talks about how, you know,

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Speaker 1: there is this group the Freemasons who could, by you know,

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Speaker 1: opening up their arms essentially for membership, could really serve

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Speaker 1: a really great be a force in society, and yet

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Speaker 1: they are so hesitant to let the women in well,

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Speaker 1: because one example that he he offers to support that

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Speaker 1: argument is how French female Masons after the French Revolution

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Speaker 1: really took it upon themselves to reach out to I guess,

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Speaker 1: the poor masses if you will, because you know, at

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Speaker 1: this time we have to remember too that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this isn't a perfect society. This is really restricted to

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Speaker 1: upper white, wealthy people. But Nevertheless, these women really engaged

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Speaker 1: in a lot of philanthropy and charitable acts for the

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Speaker 1: first time because they wanted to. I guess embody these

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Speaker 1: enlightened discussions that they were having in their lodges out

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Speaker 1: into public by helping out um other people. But we've

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Speaker 1: been talking a lot about France, Molly, what's going on

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Speaker 1: in the US of A. Oh, there is no chance

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Speaker 1: of us becoming Freemasons anytime soon. Yeah, you did mention comasonry,

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Speaker 1: which is um just not recognized by the official leadership

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Speaker 1: of the Freemasonry. But that is a lodge where men

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Speaker 1: and women can gather. But uh, you know, you pointed

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Speaker 1: me to one website that talked about the history of

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Speaker 1: women in freemasonry, And essentially they'll acknowledge, you know, the

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Speaker 1: people who hid in the cabinets, and they'll acknowledge that,

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Speaker 1: you know, some people in France left them in. But

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Speaker 1: there's always sort of a footnote at the end of

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Speaker 1: every paragraph, like, but this is not the way everyone

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Speaker 1: wants to do it, and this is the way most

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Speaker 1: people would prefer things to stay. And when they're talking

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Speaker 1: about just male leadership, you know, they're essentially pointing to

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Speaker 1: their constitution saying Freemasons aren't women. It's in the constitution. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's always some kind of qualifier term, like it's adoptive

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Speaker 1: masonry or comasonry. But I do want to share, um

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Speaker 1: a pretty colorful anecdote of our own. I guess you

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Speaker 1: could call her America's Elizabeth Aldworth. Um. This was back

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Speaker 1: in the day, you know, and before the days of

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Speaker 1: co masonry, And there was a woman named Catherine Babbington

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky who lived near a Masonic lodge and she

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Speaker 1: would conceal herself in the hollow pulpit during every lodge meeting.

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Speaker 1: And she did this for more than a year. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so of course she, like we said the beginning, she

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Speaker 1: followed our advice and really accumulated all of this knowledge.

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Speaker 1: And then she was finally discovered. They questioned her and

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Speaker 1: they found out that she knew everything. But then they

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Speaker 1: kept her in custody for more than a month while

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Speaker 1: the lodge decided what to do with her or Babbington,

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Speaker 1: that would not fly today. Well, it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: if you are going to hide out and listen to

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Speaker 1: us here society, it's something to be aware of possible consequences.

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Speaker 1: They'll act you where they keep your secret for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Well yeah, I mean even after this month

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Speaker 1: of being being held, they didn't even initiate Babington. They

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Speaker 1: still just kicked her out. And you know, sometimes when

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Speaker 1: you have a secret, you know, dead men tell no tells.

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Speaker 1: She's lucky she escaped with her life. Oh my goodness, Molly,

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Speaker 1: this podcast just a good an ominous from the duck side.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's one guy that we do have

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Speaker 1: is Rob Morris, and he's sort of the father of

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Speaker 1: adopted Masonry, adoptive masonry in the United States. And we

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Speaker 1: do see this happening a lot um in the late

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century early twentieth century of these male civic leaders,

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Speaker 1: often wealthy men, who did embrace this i early idea

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Speaker 1: of gender equality in women's rights that was really starting

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Speaker 1: to take off at the time. And he started the

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Speaker 1: uh the Order of the Eastern Star based on this

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Speaker 1: idea of adoptive masonry and allowing men and women to

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Speaker 1: congregate together. So there are you know, as we said,

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Speaker 1: many women's groups. Order of Eastern starving most prominent that

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Speaker 1: women who are associated with Freemasons can join. Essentially, if

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Speaker 1: you're the daughter UM White sister, there are options for you.

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Speaker 1: But if you wanted to be full on fraternal member

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Speaker 1: of the organization, you probably will be choosing something like

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Speaker 1: co Masonry, something not formally recognize, let's say, a quasi Mason.

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Speaker 1: All sort of descended from UM and I didn't take

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Speaker 1: French to just go ahead and forgive this the draw

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Speaker 1: human dro droy it human. That was the French French group.

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Speaker 1: So again again all of our feminist strides or infiltration

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Speaker 1: if you will, within this secret society descends from the

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Speaker 1: French because Co Macendry is sort of descended from that

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Speaker 1: French splinter group. But even today, when we were kind

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Speaker 1: of researching around, looking at looking just googling, if you will,

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Speaker 1: women in Mason's, we kept coming on these these pages

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Speaker 1: of traditional Masonic groups or lodges who acknowledge the fact that, yes,

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Speaker 1: it seems kind of sexist that we don't allow women,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it is in our constitution and that's

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Speaker 1: the way it's always been. And you know, we have

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Speaker 1: these female interlopers and they kind of got in, but

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Speaker 1: they're not really Mason's. You know, they really defend the

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Speaker 1: fact that it is a fraternity, and I guess that

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Speaker 1: they could turn around and you know, make the same

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Speaker 1: accusation of you know, well, why if if women can

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Speaker 1: join full fledged lodges, and maybe men should be allowed

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Speaker 1: in sororities, you know what I mean. Then you get

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Speaker 1: into this whole kind of argument of men's and women's

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Speaker 1: groups and should any of them be gender specific? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think the only reason that people have

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Speaker 1: a fascination with this particular one it is because there

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Speaker 1: are so many, you know, secrets and conspiracies, and it's

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Speaker 1: so widespread. I mean, it's an international organization the like

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Speaker 1: by what the nineteen thirties in the US there are

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Speaker 1: more than two million members just in the thirties. So

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Speaker 1: I can't think of any other organization that's similar for

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Speaker 1: women to one. I mean, I think the only thing

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Speaker 1: I could think of in terms of philanthropy would be

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Speaker 1: the Junior League. But I don't think they have any

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Speaker 1: secrets to share, yeah, and I hope really want some secrets. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think we're making the argument that women

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Speaker 1: should become or should be allowed membership in the Freemason

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Speaker 1: groups if they don't want us. That's fine. I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of I'm not going to fight for this of all things, um,

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Speaker 1: but I just thought it was interesting to highlight sort

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Speaker 1: of the the strides someone would have made, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there have in places like in France and also in

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Speaker 1: England where Freemasons were very associated with the Suffragette movement,

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Speaker 1: where they really used um, their social power as a

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Speaker 1: as a good force of change, should have been really

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Speaker 1: good friends to women's rights. Well, I think it's also

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Speaker 1: kind of on the flip side of that. I think

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Speaker 1: it's also an interesting example because I wasn't aware of

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Speaker 1: these connections between you know, Freemasons and the Enlightenment and

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff going on in France. I do

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Speaker 1: think it is an interesting example of something that really

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Speaker 1: did start off with the intention of paving the way

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Speaker 1: for um, you know, an open, open discourse for both

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Speaker 1: men and women, promoting gender equality and all of that,

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Speaker 1: but never really got past the starting block, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's one of it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a surprisingly rare example of that, because you know, for

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Speaker 1: something that is um so widespread as the Masons, it

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Speaker 1: is still so locked into being an all male fraternity.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting. I think it is kind of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's part of part of that issue I didn't know

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Speaker 1: about exactly. Well, I think whenever you talk about secret societies,

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Speaker 1: you're probably gonna offend someone. So let us know what

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Speaker 1: we got wrong, what we got right, what you're interested in,

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Speaker 1: and if you are a woman and you're are in

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Speaker 1: some kind of Masonic organization, we really want to hear

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Speaker 1: from you. Yeah, I mean, you don't have to tell

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Speaker 1: us the secrets, but if you want to, that'd be

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Speaker 1: cool too. We like secrets. Just pretend we've been hiding

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Speaker 1: in your house for the past year and you have

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Speaker 1: to induct us. But until Molly now I can be

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Speaker 1: initiated into some kind of society that we'll share its

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Speaker 1: secrets with us. Why don't you you let's read our

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Speaker 1: listeners secrets. Yes, let's read our listeners secrets with some

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Speaker 1: listener mail from our email dress Mom, Stuff and all

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. So I'm gonna start with something

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Speaker 1: that was mentioned by a few of our listeners. Martha

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Speaker 1: and Change are the two names I wrote down who

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Speaker 1: wrote in about it. They wrote in about the Beck

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Speaker 1: dol test. Had you heard about this, Christo? No, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't heard about it either. And basically it's a

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Speaker 1: test you can apply to any movie. To pass this

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Speaker 1: test of film must one have at least two women

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Speaker 1: in it too, the one must talk to each other.

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Speaker 1: Three they must talk to each other about something besides

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Speaker 1: a man. And it is amazing. Martha writes, how many

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Speaker 1: films do not pass this test. Try it on some

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Speaker 1: of your favorites. Avatar, no Angels and Demons, no Bruno,

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Speaker 1: no I Sage three, no sex in the City of

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Speaker 1: the movie. Definitely not No. That thing that wasn't may related.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's interesting and you can go if you google.

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Speaker 1: Bechtels has still take his website world They're all the

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Speaker 1: movies that have come out recently. They discussed whether it

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Speaker 1: does or doesn't. It kind of breaks your heart a

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Speaker 1: little bit to see how rarely when we get to

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Speaker 1: talk about something besides a man. Uh well, speaking of

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Speaker 1: something besides a man. I've got an email here from

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Speaker 1: Julie about our podcast on SPF and I have to

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Speaker 1: share her subject line, which was you can't sit with

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Speaker 1: sunburned buns another verse to our song. Yes, she said,

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Speaker 1: I have to say I don't use sunscreen very often.

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Speaker 1: And have come to regret it a couple of times.

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Speaker 1: My friend and I went on vacation to the beach

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Speaker 1: last summer on a very cold and cloudy day. It

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Speaker 1: was so windy that we had to wear hoodies on

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Speaker 1: top of our swimsuits. You can see where this is going.

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Speaker 1: We dozed off face down and woke up with lobster butts.

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Speaker 1: I was in pain and slightly ashamed. How many times

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Speaker 1: did my mom teld me to put on sunscreen even

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Speaker 1: when there's no sun out? A gazillion times, well, at

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Speaker 1: least three times, she said. We spent the next day

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Speaker 1: looking for loose clothes and buckets of ali Vera cream

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Speaker 1: to soothe on our roasted skin. There was no mirror

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Speaker 1: in the hostel we were staying in, so we took

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Speaker 1: pictures of our legs to see how that it was.

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Speaker 1: Let me just say that my mom was not pleased

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Speaker 1: when she saw the pink to red gradient on her

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Speaker 1: daughter's legs. I will try to put on more sunscreen

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Speaker 1: this summer. Do that, Julie, I can identify with that.

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Speaker 1: I always get my upper thighs, and it's usually right

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Speaker 1: before I have to get in the car after leaving

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Speaker 1: the beach and it is not fun to drive home

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Speaker 1: from beach with sunburnt thighs. Well, guys, if you've got

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Speaker 1: anything to share with us, secrets, not secrets, anything, really,

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Speaker 1: just send us an email at mom stuff at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. If you want to learn some

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Speaker 1: of our secrets, you should go You should go over

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Speaker 1: to our blog how to stuff and you can find

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Speaker 1: that blog in addition to the article how Freemasons work.

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Speaker 1: Go to how stuff works dot com for more on

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Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Because that how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Want more house stuff works, check out

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Speaker 1: our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page.

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry.

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Speaker 1: It's ready, are you